[InkedMarie]

Hi Jeff,
It’s best to feed a variety of proteins, even in raw. So, next order, get a mixture. As for supplements, I don’t think you have to add much, I’d suggest salmon oil & eggs a couple time a week. Some give digestive enzymes & probiotics which aren’t necessary but sure can’t hurt. Darwin’s has good customer service, give them a call!

[Shasta220]

I’m not exactly sure how much of the extra supplements you should add. Try maybe 1-2tsp? I’d start with using one product at a time, to see which one is/isn’t seeming to work. If the bully sticks seem to help, maybe cutting back on the kibble and adding some meat (raw or cooked) to his delicious-sounding doggie soup?

[Sharon Buchanan]

Saw the coconut oil issue and came to see what others were saying. Discovered a few great suggestions in the process!

Patty~
As always, I learn something new every time I read one of your posts. I’ve been damp dusting with water (I don’t care for oily sprays that seem to attract fur, not repel it), for years but never thought to add anything to my wet cloth. Do you think just adding a touch of lemon juice to the cloth would work as well as lemon oil?

Typhoon ~
Just to confirm what Sully’sMom said, Dogs Naturally Magazine also recommends starting with 1/4 teaspoon per 10 lbs to begin with.

My Mystery had a severe skin flaking problem when I first brought him home. Literally, a dense layer of skin in and outside his crate every morning. We tried omegas for a month with no difference noted, then it was a special shampoo (that turned out to have a carcinogenic ingredient in it), and the breeder suggested canola oil (more cancer, no thanks).

I came across this article: http://www.dogsnaturallymagazine.com/the-health-benefits-of-coconut-oil/. I started giving Mystery about a teaspoon in the mornings only to be sure he didn’t have loose stool problems in the night. Within a few weeks his skin flaking had completely stopped. He’s about 60 lbs now and I’m giving him about a tablespoon (I eyeball the measurement), and because it seems to be enough, I still only give it in the mornings – he never did have any stool issues, thank goodness.

Coconut oil seems to have a variety of benefits and while I’m taking supplements (I can’t stand the texture of solid coconut oil), in the hopes it will help with my eczema, I wouldn’t give a supplement to Mystery. Shasta220’s recommendation to just get a jar of it is best, organic, extra virgin, cold pressed, and I would add non-GMO. You can see my review of the brand I use here: http://www.amazon.com/gp/cdp/member-reviews/A2U61OLT76XK5I/ref=pdp_new_read_full_review_link?ie=UTF8&page=1&sort_by=MostRecentReview#R1YWGCBPDX00JI

I’d like to emphasize Shasta220’s suggestion about giving LOCAL honey to help with allergies. We live in an area called Apple Valley, for obvious reasons – lots of apple farms, local apple festival every year…, so there are fruit stands everywhere. These are the best places to find local honey.

[Sharon Buchanan]

loobija and vaarde ~
You need to read the articles that HDM has posted on page one of this thread. If you’re going to feed dry to your large breed puppies, you need to be feeding a low calcium/phosphorus kibble. Those articles, will tell you why. If you don’t want to read all of them, at least read Dr. Susan Lauter’s paper (#1), Dr. Henry Baker’s paper (#3 on the list), as well as Dr. Karen Becker’s article and watch her video (#5).

HDM also posted a list of Large Breed Puppy food here: https://docs.google.com/file/d/0BwApI_dhlbnFY183Q0NVRXlidWc/edit, to make it easy for you to research the best LBP food for your dog (and wallet). You can also Google Large Breed Puppy Food to find more. Your puppy is worth a little bit of homework.

Look for a food that has a minimum calcium content of .8% with a maximum around 1.2% (and don’t get hung up on AAFCO standards for calcium – they’re still behind the power curve when it comes to LBP nutrition). HDM’s list only provides minimum calcium content, you’ll need to go to the manufacture’s website to see if they list the maximum – some don’t, call them if you’re considering their food.

vaarde – Dr. Clauder’s adult food for LB “junior” dogs contains maize (corn), corn meal, rice, beet pulp, powdered egg, mussel powder. Filler grains, sugars and in the case of those two powders, nothing but dust. They also use sodium selenite as a source of selenium when they could be using a natural source – selenium yeast. Compare those ingredients with NRG Maxim for large breeds, or Canine Caviar, or…

loobija – you have a puppy, not an adult dog. Do not feed your LBP adult dog food and be very careful about feeding your puppy any “all life stages” food as well. Please read those articles. There is a reason why you need to select a formula designed specifically for large breed puppies. I do not like Authority’s LBP formula for some of the same reasons I don’t like Dr. Clauder’s and their minimum calcium is 1.3% when that is higher than what I would consider as a maximum amount.

Personally, having read all the articles that HDM posted links to – and I found them independent of this fantastic forum, (be sure to thank her for making your research easier), I believe the closer you can stay to .8% calcium the better. LBP kibble formulas will have the correct calcium/phosphorus ratio (1.2:1).

Look for foods that have named meat “meals” (chicken meal, salmon meal, etc.) in many of the first five ingredients as possible. Avoid unnamed anything (meat meal, fish meal, poultry-by-product), grains and fillers (wheat, corn, glutens), and sugars and starches (beets, potatoes). Try to find foods with natural supplements and no preservatives. If you don’t don’t what an ingredient is, look it up. For example: menadione sodium bisulfite complex (synthetic vs. natural Vit K), sodium selenite (vs. selenium yeast).

Kibble is a mine field. Make sure you subscribe to DogFoodAdvisor’s recall alerts: /dog-food-recall-alerts/. You can also find a wealth of information regarding pet food manufacturing practices (what they’re doing right, mostly wrong, how the FDA and the AAFCO really aren’t concerned about what goes into your pet food, recalls, etc.), at truthaboutpetfood.com.

Finally, I would recommend you read just the few pages that have been started in the forums here on feeding raw to large breed puppies: /forums/topic/feeding-raw-non-commercial-to-large-breed-puppies/page/2/#post-33708.

[Sue’s Zoo]

Thank RDM and Patty.

I guess I should didn’t explain well enough. I used the veggies as an example. Since that proportion was off from what I had read elsewhere I wondered if it meant I was mis-reading the recipe and should’ve been dividing the meat by three but using other veggies/supplements in the AM meal ‘per dog’ which would then affect the calcium etc. But it sounds like I’ve been following them correctly so I feel better on that score. The Becker diets do seem heavy on the veggies but until I really feel better about my own calculations, I feel I need to follow some recipes. And trying to figure out amounts is still a struggle. But thanks to this forum I can at least ask questions and feel confident in the answers!

[RescueDaneMom]

Sue’s Zoo,

I’m not 100% sure but I think that HDM doesn’t feel the need to give her dogs a lot of fruits/veggies. I think that’s why there’s a big difference in the amount of veggie mix in HDM’s recipes versus Dr. Becker’s. I don’t think you’re going to throw off the calcium/phosphorous with the differing amount of veggies. I imagine you could feed them more or less veggies depending how their systems handle it and if they like it or not. The main component of calcium/phosphorous in the meat/bone. I believe the supplements in HDM’s recipes are for 3 adult dogs in the 65-75 pound range (I think, going by memory here). If you are unsure about the amounts of supplements you should be giving for your dogs’ weights just ask. I know I wrote it all down once.

Hopefully more people will chime in. I’ve only been doing raw for about 6 months now so I still consider myself new at it. Good luck!

[mountainhound]

I’ve been feeding raw for about 5 years (mostly pmr and some premade). I’m always rotating protein sources since my dog doesn’t have any digestive issues and tolerates it well. I also like to add fresh whole foods for variety which depends what I have on hand. I tend to stick with certain staples though that I add daily which includes salmon oil for omega 3’s and seameal blend for trace minerals. I also recently started using olewo carrots and beets which have been a huge hit and seem to benefit his skin/coat and prevent counter surfing. He also gets fresh egg couple times a week for additional vitamins or as a treat.

Curious to see what other raw feeders supplement with. Any product you absolutely swear by and why do you use it?

[Sue’s Zoo]

So I’ve been doing this for about 2-1/2 weeks now and I’m still concerned that I’m not balancing the calcium/phosphorus ratio for my large breed pups. Trying to follow (as closely as possible) a couple of HDMs meal plans from early in this topic but at various times I’m substituting which makes me uncomfortable. Anyway, one question I have, after a lot of reading, etc., particularly Dr. Becker’s book, is whether or not I’m following the earlier recipes correctly. HDM lists a morning mix, she divides between three dogs. Is it just the meat that is divided or the whole thing? The reason I ask is that the veggie mix is quite a bit lower than Dr. Becker’s suggested diets if I divide one cup between 3 dogs per day. So is it one cup per dog per day? And if that’s true for veggies, what about other supplements?

This would be so much easier if my dogs were adults and at a relatively stable weight, without special large breed and puppy needs :/ Every time I think I have a good grasp and things are going well, I just come up with more questions.

Thanks in advance.

[A.Sandy]

Hi,
What You have is giant breeds lol! The biggest mistake is overfeeding this breed because they suppose to look bulky, but the truth is it’s bad for their hips it puts stress on them.
and please STOP feeding that grocery store junk it will mess your pups up. You can feed a all life stages food for both just feed according to energy level to avoid overweight pets. look in the 4 and 5 star pet foods here at dog food advisor. Try something with no corn, wheat or soy and nothing from china(including treats) Always portion control to prevent from their bones growing too fast and having bowed legs.(believe me I went through that with my dane when he was younger)try buying from a feed store or sometimes hard ware stores have great deals on great food. Avoid vitamin/mineral and calcium supplements that will affect their nutrient absorption. good luck!

-Ana
pet nutrition expert/advisor
@pupfacts
pupcatnutrition.com

[dachshundmom]

Hello all,

I’m new to the forum, and really excited about all the information I’ve found already. But I have a bit of a unique problem, I think. I have an 8-year old dachshund named Ethel, who spent most of her life on brands that are well-ranked on this site. Last year we (me, Ethel, and her “dad”) to Southeast Asia, for work. We’re living in a big city with a fair amount of foreign goods available, but there are only two imported dog foods: Pedigree and Royal Canin, neither of which are ranked well here. Royal Canin is the better of the two (2.5 stars) but it was the first food that has ever upset her stomach, and the vet asked us to switch off it (to the Pedigree) when blood started appearing in her poop.

I’d like to make my own, and can access all sorts of chicken, beef, pork, fish parts. I can’t, however, buy much in the way of supplements. So…I’ve been using brown rice and leaner meat, mixed with kale or spinach, sweet potato, peas, carrots and other random veggies (Ethel LOVES vegetables, always has). She eats a few sliced apples or mangos a week, instead of dog treats. Her weight has stayed the same (she’s fit) and her coat looks good, and all her tests come back with good results. But I’m winging it. And the “mom” in me is worried that without fish oil pills or glucosamine, I’m doing her major damage. But it’s got to be better than the Pedigree, right?

Does anyone have things I should add in, beyond the stuff mentioned above? If you have weird animal body parts (kidneys? hearts?) that you know of that provide the same things as the supplements people in the US seem to be using, I’d GREATLY appreciate some advice.

Thank you!
Cristina (and Ethel)

[Spiffyloo88]

It really is better for dogs to digest cooked veggies. My dog is allergic to wheat, chicken, carrots and rice that we know of so we make him hard boiled eggs and cooked oatmeal and boiled sweet potatoes, at the suggestion of our vet. I also need ideas on supplements to add to his food. We just started a month ago to see if we could clear up his rashes and diarrhea and it did so now we slowly add things one at a time and see how he reacts. I read you can buy like powdered vitamin stuff but I don’t even know where to start.
The poor guy can’t even have flavored chew toys so we have to buy plastic bones it kind of makes me sad for him.

• This reply was modified 12 years, 1 month ago by Spiffyloo88.

[theBCnut]

It would depend on the commercial raw that I was feeding. I use Darwin’s and their fat levels are not as outrageous as some, so I give coconut oil with it.

I use enzymes every day, every meal for one of my dogs, only with kibble for one, and not at all for the third. If I’m feeding green tripe I don’t give probiotics at all. Otherwise, I give my dog with issues every day, and the other 2 get them one other time a week.

I use index cards too, and figuring out how I wanted them organized was the tough part. I now have notes on commercial raw, homemade, supplements, Traditional Chinese Veterinary Medicine, kibbles, and probably other categories that I just can’t remember right now.

I also keep a file on my computer of the different foods that I’ve tried for Micah and their ingredient lists with the ingredients color coded for how he does on them. That’s how I was recently able to tell that it was tomato pomace that set him off when I tried a new food on him that I thought had only OK ingredients in it.

[Sharon Buchanan]

Jazz ~
Sorry I didn’t get back to you yesterday. It’s been a madhouse around here with my oldest daughter moving out yesterday, me trying to finish some reading on raw diets so I can order some food before tomorrow and trying to find the right adoptable Golden for my husband.

I appreciate that RescueDaneMom jumped in to give you some very good advice. Pattyvaughn is another great resource as are any number of people more qualified than I.

Although some of the papers from the Great Dane study indicate that a 6 month old LBP could effectively absorb calcium, I have to agree with GDM that waiting at least until 10 months to switch to a higher calcium diet is better. I would however, still feed LBP kibble until full grown, up to 2 years old – you’ll know when your pup has reached that point.

I did switch Mystery to Orijen, Large Breed Puppy a month or so ago and if I hadn’t gone raw I’d have fed it until he was at least 16 months old. I wouldn’t have moved to Acana LBP because their MINIMUM calcium is 1.6%, Orijen is 1.2/1.5 min/max. Some of the Acana Regionals recipes have a similar low minimum calcium of 1.2% but they don’t say what their max is. Additionally, the protein content is lower than Orijen LBP. For comparison’s sake – Orijen LBP and both adult formulas contain 14 proteins and then starches follow. Acana Wild Prairie 2 proteins then a starch while their Grasslands is a bit better at 4. 80% of Orijen’s ingredients are protein, Acana is 60%. Of the other foods that RDM listed, I have opinions on all of them, but you can do further comparisons.

IF I were going to continue into adult kibble, I would absolutely have stayed with any variety of adult Orijen and would have felt very good about my decision. All five cats are eating Orijen with the youngest, a five month old Maine Coon stealing a few ounces of Mystery’s raw. I spent a lot of time researching pedigrees and genetics and food so that we could avoid, to every extent possible, a repeat of the $10,000 it cost us to have double-hip surgery on Sunset before she was two and three months of 24/7 in-clinic therapy to teach her how to walk again. I’m by no means an expert, but I can read and the more I do, the better I feel about my food choices, and why I switched to Orijen at 9 months and then raw so soon after at 10 months.

I wholly agree with RDM on turmeric. Mystery is enrolled in the Morris Foundation’s lifetime study on the relationship between cancer and Golden Retrievers and since we just lost Sunset to cancer, I feel a duty to do everything I can keep Mystery from getting cancer. I do purchase some supplements from Swanson and I’ve had Mystery on Springtime’s Longevity but I’m not certain I will continue that. I do agree with your decision to limit supplements since most kibble already contain a variety of supplements – I recently read an article on supplement overkill. If I can dig that article up I’ll let you know.

I also give Mystery raw eggs on occasion. It’s my understanding that the shell of the egg has a perfect balance of calcium to phosphorus. So if you’re still feeding a low calcium kibble and you want to add a bit more without switching to a higher calcium food, break an egg! I usually break it over a bowl, break up the shell a bit with my hands and pour it over his food. He gets the same eggs I eat – Born Free, Vegetarian without the added omegas or any other organic, free-range brown egg when Born Free is unavailable.

One more note – Susan Thixton had her site truthaboutpetfood.com hacked a couple years ago and so opened another site adding a “2” to the end. The problem finally resolved, she’s moved everything back over to truthaboutpetfood.com but is in the process of cleaning things up – hopefully that will be finished soon. Keep checking back, sign up for her newsletter or “Like” her on Facebook. She’s worth following.

Whew! 😉

[Dori]

Have you gone on the search section of this site (upper left hand corner) and entered low fat low protein low carb foods? I just did it and it comes up with a list of foods. Just a thought. I’m hoping that Patty Vaughn, HDM and/or Shawna sees your post and chimes in or you can start another forum requesting help with food for a dog with bid. They are really really good on all nutrition, supplements, etc. They are my go to gals. Fabulous wealth of information.

[Dori]

Have you ever tried changing the food he’s eating? Maybe too much fat, or protein or intolerance to what he’s eating. If your feeding kibble with grains that would possibly upset him. It has many other dogs. Do you add digestive enzymes to his food? Any supplements. If you’re not feeling right about what your dog is eating but the vet won’t listen to you then possibly it’s time to get another vets opinion and find a vet that is more open to your concerns. Not all (thank goodness) vets think that dogs must be on a kibble diet, as a matter of fact, they shouldn’t. You also might try finding a vet that also practices holistic medicine too.

[Dori]

Wow those are some good ones. Does your allergy prone poodle do alright with all of those oils? Just thinking of Katie my maltipoo with the allergies. I’m going to sound ignorant here for a moment, but how do you know when your dog seems to require more omega 3 oil. What should I be looking for. As you probably know I’m fairly new to all this and doing well or should I say my dogs are doing well with the commercial raws. I’d like to be smart about the supplements and oils. Don’t want to mess up too much.

[Shasta220]

I will agree with the above posters. Certainly try some digestive supplements… But it could be that her body isn’t used to such rich food. When my guys switched from a low quality food to a much better one, they had really mushy stools for quite a while.

[Dori]

Has anyone had experience with a dog with Hypothyroidism and the medication Soloxine. One of my dogs was diagnosed with Hypothyroidism by a traditional vet a number of years ago and was put on Soloxine. She’s been on it ever since diagnosed. I have to admit that I was very uninformed on nutrition and dogs until a couple of years ago when I discovered this site and have since learned a wealth of information. I’ve gotten a fabulous “free” education from the posters like Shawna, Patty Vaughn, HDM and others. My dogs have since made the transition to 5 star kibbles and as of about three months ago totally transitioned to raw feeding. Presently I rotate commercial frozen raw by proteins and brands and I add a few fruits and veggies. They are now at the point that I can rotate their proteins and brands with each meal (twice a day) and no loose stools or problems whatsoever. The change in their skin, hair, demeanor, food intolerances, etc. has been nothing short of a miracle. Now to my question. Does anyone feel that my having changed their nutrition completely my one dog would still need soloxine for hypothyroidism. Is it even possible that she no longer has it so that there is no need to medicate her? She is a 14 year old Maltese. She now acts as if she’s 14 months old. From reading on this site I’ve learned that so many illnesses and problems with dogs has been due to poor nutrition, and let’s face it, all the crap in commercial kibble, and have done a 180 on proper nutrition and good proper supplements. I’m very sad to say that I was one of the ignorant pet owners that was very proud to say that she never ever fed her dogs “people” food. In fact, it was bad for them. I bought into the kibble marketing as well as vets advise that kibble was what to feed and if you found a kibble that worked never change it. What an idiot I was. Now they get no kibble whatsoever and happy to say that to all the dog owners that I know that I gave erroneous information to mea culpa, mea culpa and have sent the to this site.

[RescueDaneMom]

Lablubber-

I just wanted to say that I didn’t intentionally ignore your post. I tend not to respond unless I feel 100% sure in the advice I can offer. I personally didn’t go through the LBP phase. I adopted my Great Dane when he was 2. I feed a combination of raw and dehydrated but I know that not everyone is comfortable in feeding raw. I fed my boy kibble for 5 years before I started learning about raw.

I think that coconut oil, flax, and fish oil are great supplements to be adding right now. I don’t think it’s wise to give a ton of supplements to puppies right off the bat. Those 3 though are great. The only other thing you might want to consider is digestive enzymes and probiotics if you notice your pup needs a little extra digestive support. I give them to my dog because he’s older. You can also give a little bit of kefir. You can find it in the grocery store. It has 10 strains of probiotics. It’s much better than yogurt. You’d have to feed way more yogurt to get the same probiotic benefit as kefir. Also, I too switch off fish oil with krill oil. I would definitely continue to do that. They don’t need as much krill oil as fish oil because it is more bioavailable so you’ll want to watch your dosage. Here is info on krill oil from Dr. Becker: http://healthypets.mercola.com/sites/healthypets/krill-oil-for-pets.aspx

Here is an article from Dr. Becker on using Tumeric: http://healthypets.mercola.com/sites/healthypets/archive/2012/11/12/turmeric.aspx She provides dosage at the bottom. “Small to medium-sized dogs can be given 250 milligrams twice a day, and large to giant breeds should get 500 milligrams two to three times a day.” Here is an article on coconut oil if you haven’t seen it already: http://www.dogsnaturallymagazine.com/the-health-benefits-of-coconut-oil/

If I were feeding kibble from HDM’s list, my top picks would be Earthborn Holistic and Annamaet. I have fed both to my dog and he did really well on them. I haven’t used it but I like the look of Dr. Tim’s. I also used The Honest Kitchen. I’ve been using for almost 6 years now. It’s a dehydrated food that you rehydrate with water before serving. It’s not raw because it has been heated during the dehydration process, though at a lot lower temperature than what kibble is exposed to when being extruded. You can use it as a topper if you want. The Thrive and Love varieties are complete and balanced with the correct Ca/P ratio for a LBP.

[Sharon Buchanan]

BernerdAd ~
Just wanted to ditto Patty’s recommendation on pumpkin. It isn’t something I care to eat, but I keep a single can in my pantry just in case. When I have to open it up, another can goes on the grocery list.

Lablubber ~
I can’t remember if I read anywhere the age of your Lab. There’s a number of articles that HDM posted at the very beginning of this topic that address the correct percentage of calcium for large breed puppies. The figures vary somewhat, I chose to take the advice of Dr. Baker and keep Mystery’s calcium nearer to .80 percent. (My Mystery is an English Creme Golden Retriever – healthy adult weight will be about 85 pounds.)

I hadn’t found this forum when I was researching food so I ended up creating my own chart. I looked at calcium percentage as well as ingredients. I wasn’t going to feed junk (by-products, un-named meat meals, synthetic supplements, controversial ingredients – canola oil for one), no matter what the calcium percentage was. But I also wasn’t going to feed what I thought was the best kibble (no preservatives, no grains), if the calcium was higher than I believed it should be. I would have like to have been feeding Mystery Orijen or Acana but their calcium max for LBP is 1.5%. Though they say they try to keep it to the minimum 1%, they’d be okay feeding my dog nearly twice what he should’ve gotten. In the end, I chose Innova LBP kibble.

A simple explanation of the problem with too much calcium is, that a LBP less than six months old does not have the ability to process excess calcium properly. Too much calcium gets deposited on the outside of the bones which then causes bone disease. Again, this is the simple explanation – try reading all the articles HDM posted, some of them are a little more technical, but you’ll learn a lot from them. And don’t expect your vet to be familiar with the LBP study or any of the reports from that study. My vet said he wasn’t sure if he’d read any of them when I first mentioned diet concerns – and tried to make me feel like I couldn’t possibly know what I was talking about.

Back to the age of your Lab. Once a puppy has reached six months of age, he is able to process calcium better but even afterward, calcium still needs to be lower than what a small or medium size puppy can handle. I moved Mystery to Orijen LBP kibble just last month when he was 9 months old. To address your concern regarding transitioning foods, when Mystery’s Innova got down to the last pound, I added a pound of Orjen to it. When that was gone a few days later, it was all Orijen.

As far as expense goes, I considered Innova to be an average priced kibble – compared to Purina, Iams, Science Diet, or any other junk food. Orijen, on the other hand is going to cost more but is worth it – as far as kibble goes. Innova did have a recall last year at the time that I was feeding it to Mystery. I was forced to switch him over to Wellness – the next lowest calcium percentage, but I cringed at every meal because chicken meal is their third ingredient rather than first, and they use Sodium Selenite instead of Selenium Yeast. It looks like Innova has changed their LBP recipe – I don’t know what I’d do now if my only option to feed was kibble to a LBP.

BTW, when Innova had their recall, I had no choice but to switch Mystery to Wellness – without any transition. And my cats have never needed transitioning as I’ve upgraded their food. Obviously, common sense must rule if you see a problem cropping up because of the change.

I have to agree with Patty on Blue. In addition to their minimum calcium percentage being too high, they have three grains in their top five ingredients, they add chicken FLAVOR (why do they need flavoring?), sodium selenite and caramel which is used to make you, the purchaser feel good about the color of their garbage, as if your dog thinks caramel colored food tastes better than beige food. I also don’t like seeing oil of rosemary so high on their ingredient list since we had a Golden that had seizures (if your dog doesn’t have seizures rosemary oil/extract might not be a problem).

In retrospect, I should have started feeding Mystery raw when we first brought him home at 10 weeks instead of waiting until now when he is 10 months old. You will absolutely learn much here at dogfoodadvisor and especially in the forums. I would also suggest, if you have to continue feeding kibble, go to truthaboutpetfood.com and sign up for her free newsletter. She’s also on Facebook if you prefer. I will say though, that I credit Susan Thixton (truthaboutpetfood), with my decision to pursue a raw diet. Of course, it was here at the forums that I received the most encouragement to switch.

• This reply was modified 12 years, 1 month ago by Sharon Buchanan.

[Shasta220]

I know this is a dog forum, but my older girl, Maddy, has been quite thin lately. She has free choice of Chicken Soup dry, and I recently added Natural Balance canned. Now she only eats 1-2tbsp canned and won’t eat any dry. She acts perfectly normal and is checked out healthy

Are there any super high-calorie supplements or canned foods I can give her?

[Sue’s Zoo]

Sharon,

Dr. Frick had good general information but she doesn’t have a dog and isn’t doing it so not much in the way of practical advice. She did add a few supplements because one of my pups, Loki, has pulmonary stenosis so she gave some things to help his heart. She is looking over the actual meal plans and going to provide recommendations. She thought it all looked very good (I brought in a few of HDM’s meal plans from early in the Feeding Raw topic. She did say that it would be better to customize the herb and fruit supplements based on what each dog needs. And we discussed ways to do that. I’m going to take all the actual ones I use in and go over them with her next week.

I signed up for the Dogs Naturally conference. Thanks so much for providing that info. I’m looking forward to it and wish it was sooner! Not sure where you live. I placed my first order thru MyPetCarnivore.com. They make deliveries to various areas once a month, plus you can get orders delivered UPS but only when desperate as shipping for that type of delivery is expensive. I also found another place called rawpaws.org. They also run deliveries to several areas but I think both of these are primarily midwest US. Another frequently mentioned on this site is hare-today.com I haven’t looked into their shipping fees etc. I know they do ship fedex and UPS but no idea what it costs. I’ve also been able to find chicken backs and gizzards at Whole Foods; gizzards, liver, turkey necks at a local grocery store.

I will go through more of my info from Dr. Frick once I’ve had some time to digest and after we go over some specific diets etc next week.

[Sue’s Zoo]

Thanks Sharon, Patty and all research from HDM! It’s so good to have someone near the same point with feeding raw etc. It’s such a challenge! Can’t wait to check out the raw roundup internet conference. Thanks so much for sharing that. I too have used some frozen raw (Primal…and yes it’s VERY expensive) and will continue that when things are crazy here or I’m on vacation etc. but I really want to do the more natural whole raw most of the time.

I actually made the jump last week. Primarily because I found a specialist vet in our area that is holistic and does nutrition counseling for raw etc and figured I couldn’t do much harm in a week. I have an appointment with her tomorrow so I decided to start with some of HDMs raw diets from the beginning of the thread. (Wow!! A LOT of work!) But I’m convinced this vet can provide support because she helped so much with our GSD several years ago. He was such an awesome GSD but somewhere between 7 and 8 years old he started showing signs of DM (degenerative myelopathy). Our traditional vet gave us 6 months max with him but a friend recommended Dr. Ava Frick so we took Baron to see her. Thanks to Dr. Frick and stim therapy, acupuncture and natural supplements we were blessed to have a full 18 QUALITY months with our boy. So I checked with her and found that she does do nutrition counseling etc.

Both pups are going to see her tomorrow so we can discuss raw diets and the best way for them to get the best nutrition possible. All our dogs, other than Baron, died from some form of cancer affecting the digestive organs. Can’t help but feel that diet was the primary factor. So I’m determined to do anything in my power to provide these pups with quality food and life.

Have to say I’ve been overwhelmed a lot during the last week but I’m glad I started ahead of time. So many more questions to ask from a much more ‘real world’ vantage point! The younger pup is barely over 4 months but does pretty good with chicken backs. I will relax with it much more in the next 3 to 4 weeks as she gain her adult teeth. She just worries me with the way she attacks her food! The older male (all of 7 months) is more mellow in many ways and will lay on his rug with a turkey neck or chicken back and take time to enjoy it. But I have to say it’s a lot like watching my kids eat a meal I’ve prepared. Very fulfilling 🙂

BTW, we have all hardwood floors so I have struggled with feeding spots and found that the one that works best for me (us) is a large machine washable rug per dog covered with a large bath sheet (towel). The rug keeps the towel in place and most of the time I can just wash the towels and re-use. The rug beneath only needs an occasional wash.

I will post what I hear from Dr. Frick after the visit tomorrow. And I will also include some of the challenges I’ve hit over the last week along with any suggestions to help address them.

[Sharon Buchanan]

Sue’s Zoo ~

I am a nanobyte of information away from going raw. I spent two months researching the best kibble to buy for my Golden puppy and now I’ve spent another eight months researching the best way to feed my growing boy and have come to the conclusion that raw is the way to go. Unfortunately, I am also concerned about balancing not only calcium and phosphorus but everything else, protein, veggies, supplements.

Being at a similar point in the raw decision as you (everyone makes it out to be no big deal but it is intimidating nevertheless), the best I can offer is to share a few things I’ve learned along the way and hope it’s helpful.

Having had a Golden that required double-hip surgery before she was two, proper bone growth was a huge concern for me. If you’ve been to the LBP nutrition forum (/forums/topic/large-and-giant-breed-puppy-nutrition/#post-33156), you’ve probably already read some of the suggestions that Hound Dog Mom posted at the beginning of the thread. If you haven’t, do – It would’ve saved me a lot of research time if I’d found the forum ten months ago. Although I waded through the technical jargon in many of the articles, I found the article by Baker most useful and objective. Now that Mystery is 10 months old, I’m allowing more calcium in his diet than Baker’s recommended .8%. I’ve changed his kibble to one with a higher calcium content (from Innova to Orijen), and have started giving him an occasional RMB and raw egg (yeah, puppy steps).

I can’t speak to whether a puppy should eat raw bones until their adult teeth are in except to say that when I asked my breeder about food choices, I was told he starts giving his puppies chicken backs at six months.

As far as balanced nutrition goes, I’ve considered “balanced” frozen raw brands but they really are expensive and there’s much debate as to whether they’re safe. I’ve read so much conflicting, contradictory and even argumentative information that I have to take a few days off research just to clear my head. Sometimes I wonder if I’ll ever get my Mystery off kibble.

That said, I did find an Internet conference (what will they think of next), on feeding raw that is hosted by Dogs Naturally Magazine. You can find more information here: http://www.dogsnaturallymagazine.com/raw-roundup/. It isn’t until the end of the month but I’ve already registered and am hopeful to glean that last nanobyte of information so that Mystery will be eating only raw in March.

[Lablubber]

Hi it’s me again..

I have almost completely finished transitioning over from the food my breeder had my pup on to Blue Chicken and Rice Large Breed Puppy Food with nothing but good results. I have taken a little over a month and 4 days to accomplish that in and his stool are solid and no stomach issues…. Right now I am at 80 % transition 80% BLue/20% Purina Puppy Chow Lg. Breed Food. Right now I am also adding a teaspoon of coconut oil, a teaspoon of ground flaxseed and some fish oil, about 1000mg.

I am not using any toppers except at night for his supper meal and that is canned Blue Puupy Food about a 1/5th to 1/4th of a can. And his coat is shiny and he seems to be doing very well on it…

But for me where my problem arises is from me reading and listening to all of you guys….I almost feel like if I am not alternating out a bunch of different foods and using different kinds of toppers and adding numerous supplements to his food, then it makes me feel like I am shortchanging my dog???

And please believe me….. I have not spared any expense on my part that I know of concerning him and I really do not want to do the raw diet because I have had too many people I know who have had their dogs, get serious bacterial infections from it and some have even died from sluffing off their intestinal lining and dying of anemia before they could be saved by IV feeding and a harsh round of antibiotics.

So for me….This particular dog is just way too valuable for me to ever chance that and believe me I am not here to make any enemies by saying that but I just want you know my logic behind what I am doing with him so far. But then I also have to say this as well and something that I have found out in life myself and some wise words of wisdom and that is this…. Just because someone does something different or feels differently about another idea or approach to your particular way of doing things….Doesn’t neccessarily make them wrong….It just makes them different…! There i said it…My sermon for the day….

So anyway I took painstakingly long with my Labrador Retriever pup after listening to all of you guys and even forsaking what my vet said and changed over to a food that I read about and researched over for many hours and also a food that I had access to, to buy very readily, that I didn’t have to worry about ever running out of even where some of the online food stood the chance of having weather related delays in shipping, that it would not be running. And so I chose a food that I have seen proven to do well with my friend’s large breed dogs. And then I made a just a very few additions to the food, just to make me feel better.

I did as all of you said ion here and I cut out the milk replacer that I had always feed my pups for the first six months of their lives and longer is I saw the need to do so and I did thatimmediately. So anyway…He appears to be doing extremely well. Although he had to have several surgeries yesterday because he had a slight hernia that had to be repaired from a overzealous Lab mother licking him over and over all the time and never letting his navel ever truly heal up right. The he also had a dewclaw removed that either regrew or was missed by the breeder’s vet originally and he also had a place on his leg that had been cut while he was young at the breeder’s kennel that did not grow back right and so my vet did a little cosmetic repair there as well while he was out at no charge and she also micro-chipped him as well while he was out due to the fact that she hates to stick such a big needles in pups at that age if she can help it and so she prefers to have them out at the time of insertion and so she did that procedure as well..

So needless to say, my little fellow was exceptionally glad to see me when he I cam to pick him up….. He came home though like the walking wounded with a front leg dewclaw removed, a back leg, scar tissue repair, a hernia repair and a microchip inserted just at his shoulders along with an antibotic shot just above it, wearing an Elizabethen (sp.) collar to boot, so he was not a very happy puppy last night…. And today he is wired to a tee at work with me here today, needless to say.

So now for the advice part part….. Is the extra stuff I add to his food….The tsp. of coconut oil, the fish oil (which will be changed over to Krill oil when it gets here) and a teaspoon of ground flaxseed meal added to his food twice a day… Does all of that sound good to the ones in the know on here to be adding to his food or is that an over-kill???

Then on the medical part or at least the vaccination part of his regime…. He has had 3 series of shots so far… And I plan on having one more done just to be on the safe side, although my vet. says the 3 completes his regime. Plus he still has his Rabies shot coming up as well…. So does that suffice for his puppy shots being complete or is there anything more I need to be checking into???

I have read quite a few vets who did not reccomend them getting coronavirus or leptospirosis shots anymore(As well as my own vet feels the same way). But for me…Jess will be competing in AKC and UKC Hunter Retriever Trials and therefore he will be around a whole lot of other dogs in close proximity, so I just want to make sure that I have all of my bases covered with him as far as shots, intranasal and any other immunizations that he might need.

I am going to look into get his Lyme and Botedella vaccinations as well, but what is you guys thoughts on a working retriever and his vaccination requirements???

So that is about it today and I know i write very long but I figure if I don’t know, I never will without asking… So thank you for your patience…

Lablubber

[Sully’sMom]

I just mistakenly posted this under a potato grain free forum…this is where I intended to go (that’s what I get for rushing while I’m at work!):

Hi all, I’ve been silent for a while. I did pose this question on a forum under Supplements, but thought I’d come back to my reliable group and post it here as well, as there’s always so much invaluable help and not sure if all the same parties participate in the different forums. Thank you for your indulgence:

Sully (1 yr, 7 mo yellow lab) has recently been diagnosed with allergies, most specifically to dust and storage mites (there are others, but these are the biggies). If anyone remembers us, we’ve been dealing with this for awhile, so this is actually a welcome finding – at least now we can proceed with some action! I was reading an article in the Nov 2013 issue of Whole Dog Journal about the wonders of coconut oil, and I thought this might help. Can anyone offer opinions/advice? Recommendations? It seems from the picture accompanying the article that there is no shortage of product options!

Appreciate any help I can get, as I’d like allergy resorts to be a last resort, not a first. Thank you!

[theBCnut]

Not all fish oils have too much vit A, cod liver oil is known for that. Vit E is used to stablize many fish oils so you should check yours first, especially tubes and pumps.

The dosage for vit E is
<25lbs 50-100IU/day
25-50lbs 100-200IU/day
50-75lbs 200-300IU/day
75-100lbs 300-400IU/day
>100lbs 400IU/day

Older fish oils will have used up the Vit E used to stabilize it, so that’s why using capsules is usually recommended, but either way always make sure your fish oil is fresh.

The other thing to keep in mind is that there are actually 8 different vit Es, most supplements only have the 4 tocopherols. NOW Foods has a Gamma E complex that actually has all 8 Es in it.

[minit]

my 20lb, 13 yr old JRT suffers from mitral valve disease & an enlarged heart. He was eating Nature’s Variety Instinct dry until about 6 months ago when he started to lose his appetite. Switched to Instinct canned over the next few months until he stopped eating that as well. Have always hesitated changing his food too rapidly because of diarrhea & resulting anal gland issues, but have just taken the plunge & bought a variety of super premium wet foods in the hope of just keeping him interested. Added Swanson’s Dr.Langer’s 15 strain probiotics to his cocktail of drugs & supplements. He looks good & is gaining back a little weight, but the diarrhea, gas & noisy gut are worse. To put things in perspective, he’s outlived his life expectancy by 2 years since his heart disease was discovered. Every day we have is a gift at this point. He doesn’t seem to be able to keep large meals down (perhaps because his heart is so enlarged it reduces the capacity of his stomach) so I feed him 3 small meals a day. He likes canned pumpkin, but it doesn’t seem to help much w/ the diarrhea & I worry that he’s not getting enough protein & fat if I add too much to his small meals… I think I’m going to have to give up on the variety of canned foods & go back to just one for as long as he’ll eat it to stave off the diarrhea. What’s my best bet for high protein/fat yet not going to make his digestive issues worse?

[Shasta220]

Thank you for the advice. I’m not sure how I’ll phrase it to him, as I really don’t want to come across as basically calling him a bad/uneducated owner for feeding his dogs that, because he’s one of the best dog owners I know!

I will probably end up just sending him the link to this site, and say how surprised I am about how high (or low) quality some foods are….maybe he’d get curious and check his food out.

I’m definitely going to ignore the canned food for now. Honestly, it’d be incredible if he kept them on Alpo canned, but switched them to a 3-4star dry food. I think one of his biggest issues is the fact that he probably doesn’t really want to make time to go to a feed store for better food (Walmart and grocery stores are all we have around here other than the feed stores that sell dogfood – PetCo/Smart/Costco are 50+mi)

Any extra moral support would be great though, because this guy is…well, he’s more like a second grandfather to me than anything, so there’s a high amount of respect to get through.

I’ve already told him about a great deal on joint supplements, I told him the cost on this is about 1/4 what we were paying on regular supplements. He said he’ll probably do it when they start showing signs of joint problems – they’re 7y.o. Now, so it’s really the perfect time to get em started /before/ the signs come. I just told him I’m getting my 6yr boy on it… Trying to avoid saying, in any form, that I know everything about dog health (because I DEFINITELY don’t)

Thanks again guys, I will keep you posted on any updates, that’s for sure!

[A.Sandy]

Supplements are not recommended if you are already feeding a complete balanced meal because it will cause an unbalance of nutrients instead. and cod liver is actually the oil you have to avoid giving the most because of the high level of vitamin A in will cause liver toxicity ,and finally calcium can cause deficiencies in bones as well. so careful, careful, careful!

-Ana pet nutrition expert/ advisor
@pupfacts
pupcatnutrition.com

[martinkopf]

Hello,
I feed my dogs Darwin’s in the morning and a home cooked meal in the evening (recipes from “Feed your best friend better”). I am wondering if I need to add supplements to the home cooked meal, and if so what do you recommend? I did just order some cod liver oil and “Animal Essentials Natural Seaweed Calcium” will these be all I need along with the variety of home cooked recipes and the Darwin’s RAW?

[Weimcrime]

It kind of just went away on its own. I think the bath might have disturbed flakes on his skin. I am switching his food completely tomorrow, I’ll see if the dandruff continues. I work at a pet boutique, so getting supplements shouldn’t be a problem. Thank you for all your suggestions, guys!

[theBCnut]

I like it!! They don’t go into detail about how much of this or that is in their diets, but if you are rotating, that wouldn’t bother me at all. I like how they do the even and odd month supplements.

[USA]

Hi GizmoMom,

The reason fish have Omega 3’s is because they eat algae that is high in Omega 3’s. There are now Omega 3 supplements made from Algae. Search online for omega 3 algae oil and go from there. It is the same forms of Omega 3 (EPA and DHA) as the different fish oils so it will be well absorbed and it is not from fish!

Coconut oil is good for it’s antifungal qualities and dogs usually like the taste of it. I think that EPA and DHA Omega 3’s are the best supplement for a dogs skin, coat and brain as well as having anti-inflammatory and anti-depressant effects. Coconut oi is a great supplement for a dog with yeasty fungally skin.

Omega 6’s like Olive and other Vegetable oils are usually plentiful in a dog’s diet, so as long as you rotate Meats, Fish, Poultry, Veggies and Fruits you should be fine in the Omega 6 category.

Good Luck!!!

[RescueDaneMom]

Jazz Lover,

The general consensus is that puppies can start regulating calcium uptake around 8-10 months old. To play is really safe you could wait until 1 year.

Read this for an understanding of what “all life stages” means: /frequently-asked-questions/aafco-nutrient-profiles/

Essentially you can feed an “all life stages” food to a puppy because it is approved for growth and reproduction as well as adult maintenance. A lot of the labels on foods (ie large breed puppy, large breed adult, senior, etc) is just marketing. If pet food companies really knew what they were doing in formulating dog foods, there would be a lot more “large breed puppy” foods on the list. If I were you, I would not get caught up on the label. You don’t have to feed a food specifically for a large breed puppy or large breed adult. You need to make sure it is approved by AAFCO for growth and reproduction (aka puppy food) or all life stages.

I had to google FCP surgery. This was done to correct elbow dysplasia? As far as supplements go, I have heard the same. You don’t want to give supplements until they are done growing. I think you’d be safe starting them at 1 year. Does your vet have an opinion on this? I think you are ok with giving the salmon oil as long as you account for the calories that it adds. How much you feed will depend on the body condition of your dog. It is hard to say how much his metabolism will slow down. I would just watch his form and if he looks like he’s getting chunky, cut back on the food. If he starts to look too skinny, increase his food. Refer to the body condition chart in the Dr. Becker article I posted previously. I keep my dog lean because he is older and has arthritis. It is much easier on the joints.

Bottom line- if I were you I would continue to feed a food on HDM’s list and hold off on additional supplements until 1 year or per your vet’s instructions. I hope that is helpful to you.

[Jazz Lover]

Hi RDM

Still a few Qs. It’s not clear if I should stay on a lg breed puppy (9mo male lab – who had recent surgery for FCP)? Or move to All Stages (& how can all stages be ok for lg breed? Confusing!) I’m not seeing any lg breed adult food on the list.
Unfortunately Jazz was neutered at time of surgery. How much less do I give? It’s my understanding you need to give less if dog was neutered do to slower metabolism from neutering.
I’ve heard conflicting info on supplements. Jazz is now taking Grizzly Salmon oil w/ meals. Concerning other supps, I’ve read you want to wait until they have fully developed before giving other supps b/c you don’t want to disturb what is developing naturally.
BTW, I love all info I’ve seen from Dr Becker.

[losul]

I don’t use many supplements at all, not on any kind of regular basis anyway. The vetri-science probiotic chew was one that I have used though. Still have about 1/4 a bag or so after over a year.

One reason i chose that brand at the time was because they have or had the National Animal Supplement Council seal and logo on them. But i don’t know, maybe that was a just a false sense of security.

[Jazz Lover]

I’m confused about which (age group) food to give our 9mo male black lab… should we continue feeding large breed puppy, or switch to an All Stages or simply and adult dog food now?

Jazz is recovering from surgery for elbow dysplasia w FCP. It sounds like there joints fully develop by age 2, but my vet said an adult food is good at age 6-10 mos.

Additionally, has anyone had good results from any specific supplements for similar concerns and age lab and are further in recovery?

Thank you

[Shasta220]

I was following the “Joint Health” thread, and some people started talking about Actiflex.

Right now, I’m paying about $20/month for our senior lab’s joint supplements (I don’t remember what the brand name is, I think it’s just a store-brand…), and we could easily spend more and give her extra, as her hips need the help. She also has GSD in her, so that sure didn’t seem to help her joints!

Anyway, I found online that Actiflex is 30-40$ for 32oz…(did the calculations, figured it would last our lab 6-8mo) I REALLY want to try it out, as 5$ monthly is a lot nicer sounding than $20+ monthly. But I don’t want to try it and find out it doesn’t work, then be stuck with it.

How well does it seem to work for you guys?

[theBCnut]

Is he still on probiotics? You can try digestive enzymes, they don’t upset the stomach like a food change can. You can also try adding a spoonful of pure canned pumpkin to his meals. Sometimes the extra fiber helps them regulate the amount of moisture left in the stool. Their are also supplements like Perfect Form by the Honest Kitchen that help heal gut irritation and get the stool back to normal.

[theBCnut]

Get it from a health food store. A lot of milk thistle supplements have very little of the active ingredient in them, so you need to make sure you get a good quality one.

[Shasta220]

You can buy expensive, special-formulated supplements (I’m sure the vet could help out), but I’m always on a tight budget. If fish oil doesn’t work out for a dog, then I use either flax oil or ground flax. Flax oil is about the same price as fish, and has pretty much the same amount of nutrients. I’m not sure how much ground flax would match up to say a tsp of fish oil, but it certainly is cheap. You can buy bags of flax for 1-3$ and grind it yourself.

I hope you can get onto something that works out for your dog! Don’t go overboard, either… I know a dog owner who takes WONDERFUL care of her girls, who are 12 and 13y.o. But they still go for daily runs, and they get NutriSource GF. She makes only one mistake with them: I always notice they’re virtually odor-free when I pet them – a sign of a good diet – but they tend to feel a bit oily. The reason for that is they get 1tbsp olive oil daily AND 4 fish oil pills…(her dogs are average size too. Collie and lab/b.collie) I’d never feed more than 2 fish oils to my dogs daily.

[Shasta220]

And like I say – his problem is ONLY the smell/extra oil. He doesn’t get dry/itchy skin (unless, of course, I bathe him too often or use an irritating shampoo – any dog does that though.) Come to think of it, he’s always had a fairly oily coat I guess (his dad was half lab, so that would explain it.). But it has a somewhat sour smell to it nowadays. I’m somewhat thinking it might be his own fault – he’s with our Kelpie/Aussie in an indoor/outdoor kennel run, and he sometimes pees by his bedding (the bedding is wood shavings, so it’s easy to change…he only will go by the bed if it’s raining. He’s a fussy guy, lol!). I wonder if some of that smell gets on him, as it’s been rainy daily over here…so he will wet the bed within 10 minutes of me mucking it out lol!

[Shasta220]

He’s a classic Heinz 57 (he has, without a doubt, at least 6 breeds, b/c I knew the dad, mom, AND grandma…all were 2+ mixes)… I’ve never bought a purebred dog, and I doubt I ever will… Too many great rescue pups out there…

I don’t think Diamond naturals is the culprit, honestly… His smell came on fairly gradually, when he was still on Nutra Nuggets lamb n rice (he’s been on it all his life and never had a problem until several months ago). DN is a 4-star dog food, and honestly we can’t afford anything over $1 per lb (3 dogs, chickens, ducks, cats, pony, and cow…food bill is pretty high as is).

I’m starting to think his problem might be combination between possible food allergies (I still just don’t understand why an allergy would gradually start…especially when he was fine just a while ago), and a couple other things.

[JASTECH]

What breed is he? Is he brood stock? Is his bloodline prone to skin disorders? I would’not feed Diamond, this might be the culprit. Try a grain free or at least 4 Star rated food for him. If you are close to me then I could give you some food to try him on.

[Jazz Lover]

New to the forum!

I’ve been researching to identify a better food for our 9mo old blk lab, Jazz. He’s been on Euk Large Breed Puppy. This mo he had elbow surgery for Dysplasia FCP (& neuter 🙁 ). We were so upset. After seeing your recommend food list, my question is shall I switch him to an “all life stages” or keep him on a large breed puppy food until… when? If all stages, would I look for Large Breed “All Stages?”

When will he be full grown (male lab)? He is probably 75lbs since surgery.

Since surgery I’ve begun using Grizzly Salmon Oil Omega 3. I’m learning to identify better treats & seeking other necessary supplements highly recommends for such a young pup. Open to suggestions!

Thank you HDM for your efforts in compiling the list!

[Shasta220]

Hm. That’ll be rather tricky to figure out, for sure! I’ll be sure to do my homework now, I guess… LOL! Sighs, if only I had the money/resources/freezer space to do a raw diet for the pooches. At least he’s not a horse allergic to grain…(and I do know of one!)

[theBCnut]

The price of the food doesn’t matter if it is a food intolerance, the particular ingredient does. It is definitely not a case of overwashing, you could even wash weekly. It’s called seborrhea, and is often associated with allergies and other skin irritations. It is an overproduction of body oils. Try comparing ingredient lists of the foods that you know he did well on with those that you know made him stink. My dog reacts to chicken and many grains, those were easy to figure out, but he’s also reactive to tomato, that was a bit harder to figure out. Others have had dogs thay react to chick peas, peas, fish, potatoes, you name it. Some of the ingredients are found in better foods, but rare in the cheap ones, go figure.

[Shasta220]

This guy is actually a different one from the one who flared up on NutriSource. (Cassy is that dog) I don’t really think Shasta would have an intolerance, as it’s been fairly recent that he’s started to smell…and he’s been on really cheap foods before without having the bad odor.

He does almost always seem to have a greasy residue on his coat, yes. It takes about a week after the bath, then I will see the film on my palms after giving him a good cuddling. I really doubt I’m over washing him, he only gets a bath maybe once a month. (Sometimes every 3wks during the summer, but I use a much gentler shampoo for that)

[theBCnut]

When he hasn’t had a bath for a while, does he feel oily or leave your hands greasy after petting him? I’m remembering another one of your posts where you said he got really itchy on NutriSource. That’s a food intolerance/hypersensitivity to some ingredient in the food. The smell could be a milder symptom of a food intolerance, maybe an ingredient he doesn’t react as strongly to, or the same ingredient in a much smaller amount.