[aquariangt]

Just curious as to some opinions on dry foods with close to 40% protein analysis. The sheltie is getting fairly active (agility) but the other two are mostly house dogs- not much more than walks, though I have a yard so they can run.

I do like to keep them on the same food, but would the high protein food be unhealthy for the others, or is it not going to cause too much unhealthy weight gain? Also- hip and joint supplements, yay or nay? Vet said she should with her agility stuff, but of course, I rarely pay attention to them re:nutrition

Thanks!

• This topic was modified 11 years, 9 months ago by aquariangt.

[Newfs]

Hello,
I recall to my question.
Very counting on your answers.
Regards
Newfs
” Hi,
mine near 11 monthly Newfoundland is fed Fromm Family Gold and very nicely grows on her (the last bag is Fromm Gold Adult Dog) . Unfortunately the fodder ends, and it is not known when will be the delivery 🙁 . On this period to the fly to change him the fodder. I know that these which to the pre-pond have a content of cereals, but these which are in Poland and do not have cereals, and have a suitable quantity of the limestone {calcium} are in cosmic prices. Please for the prompt which from fodders would be for him best:
– Enova ADULT Breeders BAG GRAIN-FREE SIMPLE!
Complete food without cereal with fresh chicken meat. It can be administered to dogs from 2 months to 7 years old.
food without grains
addition of fresh chicken meat (min. 20%)
contains glucosamine and chondroitin supplement
Ingredients: dried chicken meat (min. 23.3%), fresh chicken meat (min. 20%), potato flour, dried green peas, chicken fat, dried beet pulp, flaxseed, dried egg protein hydrolyzate, dried yeast, fish oil, dried carrots, dried tomato puree, dried seaweed, sodium chloride, glucosamine, chondroitin.
Analytical constituents: crude protein – 31.5%, oils and fats – 19.5%, crude fiber – 3,5%, crude ash – 6,5%, calcium – 1.25%, phosphorus – 0.95% , moisture – 10.0%.
Extras: antioxidants. Dietary supplements in 1 kg of feed: Vitamin A – 15,000 IU Vitamin D3 – 1200 IU Vitamin E – 150 mg Copper (as copper sulphate pentahydrate) – 10 mg.
Analysis
protein: 31.5%
fat: 19.5%
Crude fiber 3.5%
ash 6.5%
humidity 10.0%
omega – 6 2.7%
Chondroitin 250 mg / kg
calcium 1.25%
phosphorus 1.0% – 0.95%
copper 10 mg / kg
selenium 0.2 mg / kg
iodine 2 mg / kg
Vitamin A 15,000 IU / kg
Vitamin D3 1200 IU / kg
Vitamin E 150 IU / kg
Niacin 135 mg / kg
– http://www.enovapetfood.com/photoVideoGallery.aspx?cid=4685&mid=18465
– http://www.farmina.com/?q=en/content/product/chicken-pomegranade
– http://www.farmina.com/?q=en/content/product/nd-ancestral-dog-codfish-orange-31
– http://www.samsfield.com/adult-large
– http://www.samsfield.com/adult-salmon
– http://eshop.fitmin.cz/en/Products/Detail/FITMIN-11210921/Fitmin-dog-Solution-RabbitandRice-13kg
– http://eshop.fitmin.cz/en/Products/Detail/FITMIN-11210921/Fitmin-dog-Solution-SalmonandPotato-13kg
What do you feel about above-fodders ? “

[Shasta220]

Sounds like you’ve already got some ideas for foods to try – I don’t know that many brands personally, so I usually say it’s safe to go with 4-5 star brands.

As for the skin. I wouldn’t expect a bath to help much, as soaps tend to strip the coat even more, unless they’re medicated and designed for dry skin (when my dog is super dry, I use an oil-based organic shampoo. Sometimes it’s almost too much though, and my dog doesn’t feel clean at all).

Some things to look into: possibly tests for food allergies? As almost all skin problems have something to do with food, sadly. It could be chicken, grains, tomatoes, fish, the list goes on. I’d try getting him on coconut oil – organic extra virgin cold pressed, about 1tbsp per 30lbs. That stuff has been known as a miracle worker around these parts! Salmon oil is very good, too. Keep that up, 🙂

Fiber additions – most people add a big spoonful of pumpkin (canned is fine) to their dogs food. If there’s no improvement in his morning routine, then possibly try some probiotic supplements as well.

[Lori]

I was wondering for those who know about homemade dog foods if you could comment on the Puppy Stew recipe? A lot cocker owners make this for their good. Is it nutritionally sound, or would their need to be extra supplements added in? Thanks!

http://www.cockersinneed.com/puppystew.html

[crazy4cats]

I also have labs with digestive issues. The supplements that I have used with success that have similar ingredients are: Gastriplex by Thorne, Vetri Probiotics BD by Vetri-Science, Phytomucil by Animal Essentials and the Perfect Form by Honest Kitchen. Good luck all. This is not a fun issue to deal with.

[ForBlackjack]

I agree dealing with Colitis is hard and it seems like every dog reacts differently. My 8 year old Lab mix has had issues for the last couple of years and I have tried many different diets, some better than others, the biggest help we found is the consistent use of supplements that help his digestive system. We use 2 things we order online from this place called askariel.com, called Soothing Digestives Relief and Power Probiotics. http://www.askariel.com/dog-and-cat-IBD-p/163.htm They seem to help a lot, of course it helps if he doesn’t garbage dive too.

[Shasta220]

I have no help to offer, but I’m just following this threat pretty much for the heck of it. I have a form of IBS, (ironically, diarrhea is not involved, phew!) so I totally feel your doggie. The only things I’ve been told for mine is, obviously, to avoid certain foods, which it sounds like you’re already doing.
I guess you could say I might just have to try eating whatever kibble/supplements that’s helping your pooch out? LOL, not seriously.

Best wishes! 😀

[Shasta220]

I’ve never done home made diets, so I’m terribly sorry – I’m not much help. I completely understand though, I have a cat who is ultra picky. She will not touch ANY type of commercial food (we’ve tried dry, canned, flaked, pouched, refrigerated, you name it, she’s turned her nose up at.). We tried offering her nothing but cat food for a week straight, and she probably would have completely starved herself, she would NOT touch it.

She’s picky about her food now even, so she doesn’t get the nutrition she needs, and it’s showing sadly… I’m jumping on this thread to see what some suggestions might be.

The only way I could think of hiding extra nutrition into their food is by grinding it. I know organ meats and raw bones are important in a balanced diet. Maybe buying a supplemental powder (just general vitamins probably) and try adding that, maybe start with just 1/2 day’s worth, as many animals can detect the smell of it and refuse. Omegas are always one of my favorite additions. My dogs get it with fish oils (salmon, sardine, krill, I think even algae would work), and raw eggs – your dogs may prefer the taste of cooked.

Just play around with how much you can get in there without it being too detected. Possibly try coconut oil as well, it has tons of benefits. Try offering them a teaspoon of organic extra virgin cold-pressed coconut oil. It’s great for their skin, fur, teeth, digestion, and pretty much everything else! Most dogs like it, too.

Hopefully you’ll be able to figure out something that works out perfectly. Have you tried commercial dehydrated, refridgorated, or raw foods? They already have balanced nutrients, so you wouldn’t need to worry about many supplements.

And yes, dog nutrition is very very confusing. Research and reading forums seems to make it worse, as everyone has their own opinions and experiences… Plus, every dog is different, so what works miracles for my dog might do absolutely nothing for yours. Just keep trying to gain information though, I’m sure you’ll slowly start figuring it out. (I’m new to nutrition myself, but the more I’m on here, the more I learn!)

[Shasta220]

I honestly don’t see why it’s so nessicary to get a small-breed food, other than the fact that the Kibbles will be smaller. I don’t really think breed-specific food really changes the formula much. I really would try to avoid Purina, even the best-rated “Pro Plan” is mainly fillers, which your little doggie definitely doesn’t need! Iams food is alright, but still not as good as the commercials make it seem.

If none of your dogs have super special needs, then you could possibly switch them all over to one specific food. I have an old lab, a young herder, and a middle aged mutt (happy birthday, Shasta!). They are all on the same food. I admit, I do add different supplements to suit their needs.

[robertdee]

Here’s the thing:

At the first glance it appears that there are a lot of things that cause weight gain in dogs, but the reality is that just like with humans it’s all about energy balance. Dogs gain weight simply because their daily caloric intake is greater than their daily caloric output. In simple terms they either eat too much or they don’t move enough.

There’s no dog food that will make your dog lean, but I would recommend you to look into supplements for example: http://bestdogremedies.com/product/w8-off-weight-loss-aid-for-dogs/

[robertdee]

All of you say that X food is better than Y food, but what we all need to keep in mind is that dogs are different. A Rottweiler has a completely different nutritional needs from a Pomeranian puppy and in order to get the best results you’ve got to constantly experiment with different foods to see what works for your dog.

My puppy was suffering from colitis and after spending a considerable time on the forums on the members on here recommended to look into a supplement called Bionic Biotic made by a leading English dog supplements company in the UK. They sell in the US: http://bestdogremedies.com/product/bionic-biotic-condition-and-digestion-supplement/

Anyway, after giving it ago colitis has gone away in less than three weeks. Maybe it was this supplement or maybe not, but it worked for Rocky.

[Shasta220]

If you’re not opposed to cooking for him, I’d highly recommend getting into a raw diet. I believe there are several brands of raw foods on here which already contain the proper amount of nutrients/supplements. The Honest Kitchen is one that I’m thinking of right now… I’d definitely check out the raw forums on here so you can get an idea. It’s very very overwhelming and confusing at first, but after a few days of researching and then a few weeks of perfecting your recipes, you’ll be good to go!
My favorite part about the raw diet is you know /exactly/ what goes into it. No more looking at long ingredient labels, or wondering “hmm…where was this protein sourced from?”

[Sharon Buchanan]

I just posted this on another thread as part of a larger response. Thought I’d add it to the discussion here.

I’ve been giving Mystery garlic (pest control), and a vitamin C complex (gum health, immune support, antioxidant), from Springtime from the day I brought him home, that hasn’t changed now that he’s on raw. He’s also getting two 825mg capsules of curcumen (variety of cancers, inflammation, among many others), sprinkled on his food and about a tablespoon of coconut oil which I started him on for a skin condition that cleared up in a matter of weeks and continue to give him for a myriad of benefits. I may be adding krill oil to his list of supplements as well.

Patty ~ what’s a supergreen? 3? Is it important to find a bee pollen that is local the way one could get relief from seasonal allergies by eating local honey, or is any bee pollen good for the immune system? Since Mystery is on a full raw diet now, would whole herring, anchovies and sardines be better than the oils (note, I am considering krill oil but only if I can’t find a good source of raw fish)?

[Sharon Buchanan]

Lablubber ~
In answer to your question from the Large and Giant Breed Nutrition forum about raw sourcing:

I decided a few weeks ago that the best diet for Mystery would be raw. Having made that decision, I didn’t think I should wait just because I didn’t have a local source for meat so I started pounding around the raw food thread and large breed raw thread. I asked questions about how to start, what to feed… I knew I wasn’t interested in freeze-dried or frozen patties – my boy is going to eat “manly” meat, where I could find a reliable, trustworthy online place to get meat and poultry and any other essential real food to get me through a search period. Based on recommendations here, I chose My Pet Carnivore (MPC).

Since I would have to wait for my first shipment, I headed to the grocery store, picked up a non-GMO, organic whole chicken as well as some meat with bones in them. I pulled out my German meat cleaver and a cutting board with grooves and discovered an expensive knife and cutting board does not make one a butcher. Next time I’m just going to give it to the meat department and tell them to hack it up for me.

Last week I found a farm that grass feeds, no GMOs, but they do feed grains in the three weeks prior to slaughter (I’m still checking to see if that is standard practice and if not, why it’s done and whether it effects the quality of the meat (other than the tripe) – more questions for my conference list). I may be able to get half of a cow in a few weeks at $2/lb. So, I have a 20 cu.ft. freezer arriving on Saturday and I continue to look at local resources including a dairy farm where they usually put down male calves, as well as chicken, goat and other natural farmed animals. Until then, I’m happy using MPC for all of my meat. I received my second shipment from them today, thank goodness – twice what I ordered the first time and I feel better about the balance of foods. MPC sells a number of balanced grinds – chicken, tripe/organs/etc. They also sell fine ground meats (I assume for small dogs), as well as coarse grind.

So, the answer to your question is – yes, you can buy from a reputable market. It’s cheaper in the long run since you don’t have to pay high shipping fees to ensure frozen mean doesn’t thaw before it arrives. (If you live near MPC they have pickup points.) The first local meat market I called not only couldn’t tell me whether the meat they sell is GMO free but they seemed irritated that I asked. Not going there! I’m also looking for a co-op of folks who are feeding raw but that is turning out to be more difficult to find than I expected.

As for supplements, I’ve been giving Mystery garlic (pest control), and a vitamin C complex (gum health, immune support, antioxidant), from Springtime from the day I brought him home, that hasn’t changed now that he’s on raw. He’s also getting two 825mg capsules of curcumen (variety of cancers, inflammation, among many others), sprinkled on his food and about a tablespoon of coconut oil which I started him on for a skin condition that cleared up in a matter of weeks and continue to give him for a myriad of benefits. I may be adding krill oil to his list of supplements as well.

In addition to all the help you’ll get here, if you go to mypetcarnivore.com, whether you intend to buy or not, they have some links to some great articles on feeding raw – right side, about half way down the homepage. If you sign up for Dogs Naturally Magazine, they email you a link to download their Raw Food Primer.

There are folks here who are much smarter about all of this than I am (which is why I’m here), and they have been really helpful during my transition to raw. Keep asking those questions!

[SnorkletsMom]

Hi! I have read most of this site and a lot of other sites, I have spoken to our vet…now I’m looking for opinions or tips for our puppies. They are 6 months old, one male, one female, probably 60 lbs +/- they are half Golden Retriever, half St. Bernard. Their breeder fed them Purina puppy chow, which I refused to continue. We have tried a few brands, some with terrible results. The best so far has been Purina Pro Plan Focus Large Breed Puppy. But as I’ve looked around, it does not seem to be a suggested good food. I’d like to find the best I can, but hopefully not the highest price, money is tight right now. Calcium, phosphorus, protein, etc. can be confusing after a while! Our vet is fine with the Purina, but I’d like your opinions. Also…should we be giving them any supplements? And exercise…a lot or not? (Vet said not) All tips are welcome, I’ve never had giant dogs before. Thanks!

[Newfs]

Hi,
mine near 11 monthly Newfoundland is fed Fromm Family Gold and very nicely grows on her (the last bag is Fromm Gold Adult Dog) . Unfortunately the fodder ends, and it is not known when will be the delivery 🙁 . On this period to the fly to change him the fodder. I know that these which to the pre-pond have a content of cereals, but these which are in Poland and do not have cereals, and have a suitable quantity of the limestone {calcium} are in cosmic prices. Please for the prompt which from fodders would be for him best:
– Enova ADULT Breeders BAG GRAIN-FREE SIMPLE!
Complete food without cereal with fresh chicken meat. It can be administered to dogs from 2 months to 7 years old.
food without grains
addition of fresh chicken meat (min. 20%)
contains glucosamine and chondroitin supplement
Ingredients: dried chicken meat (min. 23.3%), fresh chicken meat (min. 20%), potato flour, dried green peas, chicken fat, dried beet pulp, flaxseed, dried egg protein hydrolyzate, dried yeast, fish oil, dried carrots, dried tomato puree, dried seaweed, sodium chloride, glucosamine, chondroitin.
Analytical constituents: crude protein – 31.5%, oils and fats – 19.5%, crude fiber – 3,5%, crude ash – 6,5%, calcium – 1.25%, phosphorus – 0.95% , moisture – 10.0%.
Extras: antioxidants. Dietary supplements in 1 kg of feed: Vitamin A – 15,000 IU Vitamin D3 – 1200 IU Vitamin E – 150 mg Copper (as copper sulphate pentahydrate) – 10 mg.
Analysis
protein: 31.5%
fat: 19.5%
Crude fiber 3.5%
ash 6.5%
humidity 10.0%
omega – 6 2.7%
Chondroitin 250 mg / kg
calcium 1.25%
phosphorus 1.0% – 0.95%
copper 10 mg / kg
selenium 0.2 mg / kg
iodine 2 mg / kg
Vitamin A 15,000 IU / kg
Vitamin D3 1200 IU / kg
Vitamin E 150 IU / kg
Niacin 135 mg / kg
– http://www.enovapetfood.com/photoVideoGallery.aspx?cid=4685&mid=18465
– http://www.farmina.com/?q=en/content/product/chicken-pomegranade
– http://www.farmina.com/?q=en/content/product/nd-ancestral-dog-codfish-orange-31
– http://www.samsfield.com/adult-large
– http://www.samsfield.com/adult-salmon
– http://eshop.fitmin.cz/en/Products/Detail/FITMIN-11210921/Fitmin-dog-Solution-RabbitandRice-13kg
– http://eshop.fitmin.cz/en/Products/Detail/FITMIN-11210921/Fitmin-dog-Solution-SalmonandPotato-13kg
What do you feel about above-fodders ?

[InkedMarie]

Hi Jeff,
It’s best to feed a variety of proteins, even in raw. So, next order, get a mixture. As for supplements, I don’t think you have to add much, I’d suggest salmon oil & eggs a couple time a week. Some give digestive enzymes & probiotics which aren’t necessary but sure can’t hurt. Darwin’s has good customer service, give them a call!

[Shasta220]

I’m not exactly sure how much of the extra supplements you should add. Try maybe 1-2tsp? I’d start with using one product at a time, to see which one is/isn’t seeming to work. If the bully sticks seem to help, maybe cutting back on the kibble and adding some meat (raw or cooked) to his delicious-sounding doggie soup?

[Sharon Buchanan]

Saw the coconut oil issue and came to see what others were saying. Discovered a few great suggestions in the process!

Patty~
As always, I learn something new every time I read one of your posts. I’ve been damp dusting with water (I don’t care for oily sprays that seem to attract fur, not repel it), for years but never thought to add anything to my wet cloth. Do you think just adding a touch of lemon juice to the cloth would work as well as lemon oil?

Typhoon ~
Just to confirm what Sully’sMom said, Dogs Naturally Magazine also recommends starting with 1/4 teaspoon per 10 lbs to begin with.

My Mystery had a severe skin flaking problem when I first brought him home. Literally, a dense layer of skin in and outside his crate every morning. We tried omegas for a month with no difference noted, then it was a special shampoo (that turned out to have a carcinogenic ingredient in it), and the breeder suggested canola oil (more cancer, no thanks).

I came across this article: http://www.dogsnaturallymagazine.com/the-health-benefits-of-coconut-oil/. I started giving Mystery about a teaspoon in the mornings only to be sure he didn’t have loose stool problems in the night. Within a few weeks his skin flaking had completely stopped. He’s about 60 lbs now and I’m giving him about a tablespoon (I eyeball the measurement), and because it seems to be enough, I still only give it in the mornings – he never did have any stool issues, thank goodness.

Coconut oil seems to have a variety of benefits and while I’m taking supplements (I can’t stand the texture of solid coconut oil), in the hopes it will help with my eczema, I wouldn’t give a supplement to Mystery. Shasta220’s recommendation to just get a jar of it is best, organic, extra virgin, cold pressed, and I would add non-GMO. You can see my review of the brand I use here: http://www.amazon.com/gp/cdp/member-reviews/A2U61OLT76XK5I/ref=pdp_new_read_full_review_link?ie=UTF8&page=1&sort_by=MostRecentReview#R1YWGCBPDX00JI

I’d like to emphasize Shasta220’s suggestion about giving LOCAL honey to help with allergies. We live in an area called Apple Valley, for obvious reasons – lots of apple farms, local apple festival every year…, so there are fruit stands everywhere. These are the best places to find local honey.

[Sharon Buchanan]

loobija and vaarde ~
You need to read the articles that HDM has posted on page one of this thread. If you’re going to feed dry to your large breed puppies, you need to be feeding a low calcium/phosphorus kibble. Those articles, will tell you why. If you don’t want to read all of them, at least read Dr. Susan Lauter’s paper (#1), Dr. Henry Baker’s paper (#3 on the list), as well as Dr. Karen Becker’s article and watch her video (#5).

HDM also posted a list of Large Breed Puppy food here: https://docs.google.com/file/d/0BwApI_dhlbnFY183Q0NVRXlidWc/edit, to make it easy for you to research the best LBP food for your dog (and wallet). You can also Google Large Breed Puppy Food to find more. Your puppy is worth a little bit of homework.

Look for a food that has a minimum calcium content of .8% with a maximum around 1.2% (and don’t get hung up on AAFCO standards for calcium – they’re still behind the power curve when it comes to LBP nutrition). HDM’s list only provides minimum calcium content, you’ll need to go to the manufacture’s website to see if they list the maximum – some don’t, call them if you’re considering their food.

vaarde – Dr. Clauder’s adult food for LB “junior” dogs contains maize (corn), corn meal, rice, beet pulp, powdered egg, mussel powder. Filler grains, sugars and in the case of those two powders, nothing but dust. They also use sodium selenite as a source of selenium when they could be using a natural source – selenium yeast. Compare those ingredients with NRG Maxim for large breeds, or Canine Caviar, or…

loobija – you have a puppy, not an adult dog. Do not feed your LBP adult dog food and be very careful about feeding your puppy any “all life stages” food as well. Please read those articles. There is a reason why you need to select a formula designed specifically for large breed puppies. I do not like Authority’s LBP formula for some of the same reasons I don’t like Dr. Clauder’s and their minimum calcium is 1.3% when that is higher than what I would consider as a maximum amount.

Personally, having read all the articles that HDM posted links to – and I found them independent of this fantastic forum, (be sure to thank her for making your research easier), I believe the closer you can stay to .8% calcium the better. LBP kibble formulas will have the correct calcium/phosphorus ratio (1.2:1).

Look for foods that have named meat “meals” (chicken meal, salmon meal, etc.) in many of the first five ingredients as possible. Avoid unnamed anything (meat meal, fish meal, poultry-by-product), grains and fillers (wheat, corn, glutens), and sugars and starches (beets, potatoes). Try to find foods with natural supplements and no preservatives. If you don’t don’t what an ingredient is, look it up. For example: menadione sodium bisulfite complex (synthetic vs. natural Vit K), sodium selenite (vs. selenium yeast).

Kibble is a mine field. Make sure you subscribe to DogFoodAdvisor’s recall alerts: /dog-food-recall-alerts/. You can also find a wealth of information regarding pet food manufacturing practices (what they’re doing right, mostly wrong, how the FDA and the AAFCO really aren’t concerned about what goes into your pet food, recalls, etc.), at truthaboutpetfood.com.

Finally, I would recommend you read just the few pages that have been started in the forums here on feeding raw to large breed puppies: /forums/topic/feeding-raw-non-commercial-to-large-breed-puppies/page/2/#post-33708.

[Sue’s Zoo]

Thank RDM and Patty.

I guess I should didn’t explain well enough. I used the veggies as an example. Since that proportion was off from what I had read elsewhere I wondered if it meant I was mis-reading the recipe and should’ve been dividing the meat by three but using other veggies/supplements in the AM meal ‘per dog’ which would then affect the calcium etc. But it sounds like I’ve been following them correctly so I feel better on that score. The Becker diets do seem heavy on the veggies but until I really feel better about my own calculations, I feel I need to follow some recipes. And trying to figure out amounts is still a struggle. But thanks to this forum I can at least ask questions and feel confident in the answers!

[RescueDaneMom]

Sue’s Zoo,

I’m not 100% sure but I think that HDM doesn’t feel the need to give her dogs a lot of fruits/veggies. I think that’s why there’s a big difference in the amount of veggie mix in HDM’s recipes versus Dr. Becker’s. I don’t think you’re going to throw off the calcium/phosphorous with the differing amount of veggies. I imagine you could feed them more or less veggies depending how their systems handle it and if they like it or not. The main component of calcium/phosphorous in the meat/bone. I believe the supplements in HDM’s recipes are for 3 adult dogs in the 65-75 pound range (I think, going by memory here). If you are unsure about the amounts of supplements you should be giving for your dogs’ weights just ask. I know I wrote it all down once.

Hopefully more people will chime in. I’ve only been doing raw for about 6 months now so I still consider myself new at it. Good luck!

[mountainhound]

I’ve been feeding raw for about 5 years (mostly pmr and some premade). I’m always rotating protein sources since my dog doesn’t have any digestive issues and tolerates it well. I also like to add fresh whole foods for variety which depends what I have on hand. I tend to stick with certain staples though that I add daily which includes salmon oil for omega 3’s and seameal blend for trace minerals. I also recently started using olewo carrots and beets which have been a huge hit and seem to benefit his skin/coat and prevent counter surfing. He also gets fresh egg couple times a week for additional vitamins or as a treat.

Curious to see what other raw feeders supplement with. Any product you absolutely swear by and why do you use it?

[Sue’s Zoo]

So I’ve been doing this for about 2-1/2 weeks now and I’m still concerned that I’m not balancing the calcium/phosphorus ratio for my large breed pups. Trying to follow (as closely as possible) a couple of HDMs meal plans from early in this topic but at various times I’m substituting which makes me uncomfortable. Anyway, one question I have, after a lot of reading, etc., particularly Dr. Becker’s book, is whether or not I’m following the earlier recipes correctly. HDM lists a morning mix, she divides between three dogs. Is it just the meat that is divided or the whole thing? The reason I ask is that the veggie mix is quite a bit lower than Dr. Becker’s suggested diets if I divide one cup between 3 dogs per day. So is it one cup per dog per day? And if that’s true for veggies, what about other supplements?

This would be so much easier if my dogs were adults and at a relatively stable weight, without special large breed and puppy needs :/ Every time I think I have a good grasp and things are going well, I just come up with more questions.

Thanks in advance.

[A.Sandy]

Hi,
What You have is giant breeds lol! The biggest mistake is overfeeding this breed because they suppose to look bulky, but the truth is it’s bad for their hips it puts stress on them.
and please STOP feeding that grocery store junk it will mess your pups up. You can feed a all life stages food for both just feed according to energy level to avoid overweight pets. look in the 4 and 5 star pet foods here at dog food advisor. Try something with no corn, wheat or soy and nothing from china(including treats) Always portion control to prevent from their bones growing too fast and having bowed legs.(believe me I went through that with my dane when he was younger)try buying from a feed store or sometimes hard ware stores have great deals on great food. Avoid vitamin/mineral and calcium supplements that will affect their nutrient absorption. good luck!

-Ana
pet nutrition expert/advisor
@pupfacts
pupcatnutrition.com

[dachshundmom]

Hello all,

I’m new to the forum, and really excited about all the information I’ve found already. But I have a bit of a unique problem, I think. I have an 8-year old dachshund named Ethel, who spent most of her life on brands that are well-ranked on this site. Last year we (me, Ethel, and her “dad”) to Southeast Asia, for work. We’re living in a big city with a fair amount of foreign goods available, but there are only two imported dog foods: Pedigree and Royal Canin, neither of which are ranked well here. Royal Canin is the better of the two (2.5 stars) but it was the first food that has ever upset her stomach, and the vet asked us to switch off it (to the Pedigree) when blood started appearing in her poop.

I’d like to make my own, and can access all sorts of chicken, beef, pork, fish parts. I can’t, however, buy much in the way of supplements. So…I’ve been using brown rice and leaner meat, mixed with kale or spinach, sweet potato, peas, carrots and other random veggies (Ethel LOVES vegetables, always has). She eats a few sliced apples or mangos a week, instead of dog treats. Her weight has stayed the same (she’s fit) and her coat looks good, and all her tests come back with good results. But I’m winging it. And the “mom” in me is worried that without fish oil pills or glucosamine, I’m doing her major damage. But it’s got to be better than the Pedigree, right?

Does anyone have things I should add in, beyond the stuff mentioned above? If you have weird animal body parts (kidneys? hearts?) that you know of that provide the same things as the supplements people in the US seem to be using, I’d GREATLY appreciate some advice.

Thank you!
Cristina (and Ethel)

[Spiffyloo88]

It really is better for dogs to digest cooked veggies. My dog is allergic to wheat, chicken, carrots and rice that we know of so we make him hard boiled eggs and cooked oatmeal and boiled sweet potatoes, at the suggestion of our vet. I also need ideas on supplements to add to his food. We just started a month ago to see if we could clear up his rashes and diarrhea and it did so now we slowly add things one at a time and see how he reacts. I read you can buy like powdered vitamin stuff but I don’t even know where to start.
The poor guy can’t even have flavored chew toys so we have to buy plastic bones it kind of makes me sad for him.

• This reply was modified 11 years, 10 months ago by Spiffyloo88.

[theBCnut]

It would depend on the commercial raw that I was feeding. I use Darwin’s and their fat levels are not as outrageous as some, so I give coconut oil with it.

I use enzymes every day, every meal for one of my dogs, only with kibble for one, and not at all for the third. If I’m feeding green tripe I don’t give probiotics at all. Otherwise, I give my dog with issues every day, and the other 2 get them one other time a week.

I use index cards too, and figuring out how I wanted them organized was the tough part. I now have notes on commercial raw, homemade, supplements, Traditional Chinese Veterinary Medicine, kibbles, and probably other categories that I just can’t remember right now.

I also keep a file on my computer of the different foods that I’ve tried for Micah and their ingredient lists with the ingredients color coded for how he does on them. That’s how I was recently able to tell that it was tomato pomace that set him off when I tried a new food on him that I thought had only OK ingredients in it.

[Sharon Buchanan]

Jazz ~
Sorry I didn’t get back to you yesterday. It’s been a madhouse around here with my oldest daughter moving out yesterday, me trying to finish some reading on raw diets so I can order some food before tomorrow and trying to find the right adoptable Golden for my husband.

I appreciate that RescueDaneMom jumped in to give you some very good advice. Pattyvaughn is another great resource as are any number of people more qualified than I.

Although some of the papers from the Great Dane study indicate that a 6 month old LBP could effectively absorb calcium, I have to agree with GDM that waiting at least until 10 months to switch to a higher calcium diet is better. I would however, still feed LBP kibble until full grown, up to 2 years old – you’ll know when your pup has reached that point.

I did switch Mystery to Orijen, Large Breed Puppy a month or so ago and if I hadn’t gone raw I’d have fed it until he was at least 16 months old. I wouldn’t have moved to Acana LBP because their MINIMUM calcium is 1.6%, Orijen is 1.2/1.5 min/max. Some of the Acana Regionals recipes have a similar low minimum calcium of 1.2% but they don’t say what their max is. Additionally, the protein content is lower than Orijen LBP. For comparison’s sake – Orijen LBP and both adult formulas contain 14 proteins and then starches follow. Acana Wild Prairie 2 proteins then a starch while their Grasslands is a bit better at 4. 80% of Orijen’s ingredients are protein, Acana is 60%. Of the other foods that RDM listed, I have opinions on all of them, but you can do further comparisons.

IF I were going to continue into adult kibble, I would absolutely have stayed with any variety of adult Orijen and would have felt very good about my decision. All five cats are eating Orijen with the youngest, a five month old Maine Coon stealing a few ounces of Mystery’s raw. I spent a lot of time researching pedigrees and genetics and food so that we could avoid, to every extent possible, a repeat of the $10,000 it cost us to have double-hip surgery on Sunset before she was two and three months of 24/7 in-clinic therapy to teach her how to walk again. I’m by no means an expert, but I can read and the more I do, the better I feel about my food choices, and why I switched to Orijen at 9 months and then raw so soon after at 10 months.

I wholly agree with RDM on turmeric. Mystery is enrolled in the Morris Foundation’s lifetime study on the relationship between cancer and Golden Retrievers and since we just lost Sunset to cancer, I feel a duty to do everything I can keep Mystery from getting cancer. I do purchase some supplements from Swanson and I’ve had Mystery on Springtime’s Longevity but I’m not certain I will continue that. I do agree with your decision to limit supplements since most kibble already contain a variety of supplements – I recently read an article on supplement overkill. If I can dig that article up I’ll let you know.

I also give Mystery raw eggs on occasion. It’s my understanding that the shell of the egg has a perfect balance of calcium to phosphorus. So if you’re still feeding a low calcium kibble and you want to add a bit more without switching to a higher calcium food, break an egg! I usually break it over a bowl, break up the shell a bit with my hands and pour it over his food. He gets the same eggs I eat – Born Free, Vegetarian without the added omegas or any other organic, free-range brown egg when Born Free is unavailable.

One more note – Susan Thixton had her site truthaboutpetfood.com hacked a couple years ago and so opened another site adding a “2” to the end. The problem finally resolved, she’s moved everything back over to truthaboutpetfood.com but is in the process of cleaning things up – hopefully that will be finished soon. Keep checking back, sign up for her newsletter or “Like” her on Facebook. She’s worth following.

Whew! 😉

[Dori]

Have you gone on the search section of this site (upper left hand corner) and entered low fat low protein low carb foods? I just did it and it comes up with a list of foods. Just a thought. I’m hoping that Patty Vaughn, HDM and/or Shawna sees your post and chimes in or you can start another forum requesting help with food for a dog with bid. They are really really good on all nutrition, supplements, etc. They are my go to gals. Fabulous wealth of information.

[Dori]

Have you ever tried changing the food he’s eating? Maybe too much fat, or protein or intolerance to what he’s eating. If your feeding kibble with grains that would possibly upset him. It has many other dogs. Do you add digestive enzymes to his food? Any supplements. If you’re not feeling right about what your dog is eating but the vet won’t listen to you then possibly it’s time to get another vets opinion and find a vet that is more open to your concerns. Not all (thank goodness) vets think that dogs must be on a kibble diet, as a matter of fact, they shouldn’t. You also might try finding a vet that also practices holistic medicine too.

[Dori]

Wow those are some good ones. Does your allergy prone poodle do alright with all of those oils? Just thinking of Katie my maltipoo with the allergies. I’m going to sound ignorant here for a moment, but how do you know when your dog seems to require more omega 3 oil. What should I be looking for. As you probably know I’m fairly new to all this and doing well or should I say my dogs are doing well with the commercial raws. I’d like to be smart about the supplements and oils. Don’t want to mess up too much.

[Shasta220]

I will agree with the above posters. Certainly try some digestive supplements… But it could be that her body isn’t used to such rich food. When my guys switched from a low quality food to a much better one, they had really mushy stools for quite a while.

[Dori]

Has anyone had experience with a dog with Hypothyroidism and the medication Soloxine. One of my dogs was diagnosed with Hypothyroidism by a traditional vet a number of years ago and was put on Soloxine. She’s been on it ever since diagnosed. I have to admit that I was very uninformed on nutrition and dogs until a couple of years ago when I discovered this site and have since learned a wealth of information. I’ve gotten a fabulous “free” education from the posters like Shawna, Patty Vaughn, HDM and others. My dogs have since made the transition to 5 star kibbles and as of about three months ago totally transitioned to raw feeding. Presently I rotate commercial frozen raw by proteins and brands and I add a few fruits and veggies. They are now at the point that I can rotate their proteins and brands with each meal (twice a day) and no loose stools or problems whatsoever. The change in their skin, hair, demeanor, food intolerances, etc. has been nothing short of a miracle. Now to my question. Does anyone feel that my having changed their nutrition completely my one dog would still need soloxine for hypothyroidism. Is it even possible that she no longer has it so that there is no need to medicate her? She is a 14 year old Maltese. She now acts as if she’s 14 months old. From reading on this site I’ve learned that so many illnesses and problems with dogs has been due to poor nutrition, and let’s face it, all the crap in commercial kibble, and have done a 180 on proper nutrition and good proper supplements. I’m very sad to say that I was one of the ignorant pet owners that was very proud to say that she never ever fed her dogs “people” food. In fact, it was bad for them. I bought into the kibble marketing as well as vets advise that kibble was what to feed and if you found a kibble that worked never change it. What an idiot I was. Now they get no kibble whatsoever and happy to say that to all the dog owners that I know that I gave erroneous information to mea culpa, mea culpa and have sent the to this site.

[RescueDaneMom]

Lablubber-

I just wanted to say that I didn’t intentionally ignore your post. I tend not to respond unless I feel 100% sure in the advice I can offer. I personally didn’t go through the LBP phase. I adopted my Great Dane when he was 2. I feed a combination of raw and dehydrated but I know that not everyone is comfortable in feeding raw. I fed my boy kibble for 5 years before I started learning about raw.

I think that coconut oil, flax, and fish oil are great supplements to be adding right now. I don’t think it’s wise to give a ton of supplements to puppies right off the bat. Those 3 though are great. The only other thing you might want to consider is digestive enzymes and probiotics if you notice your pup needs a little extra digestive support. I give them to my dog because he’s older. You can also give a little bit of kefir. You can find it in the grocery store. It has 10 strains of probiotics. It’s much better than yogurt. You’d have to feed way more yogurt to get the same probiotic benefit as kefir. Also, I too switch off fish oil with krill oil. I would definitely continue to do that. They don’t need as much krill oil as fish oil because it is more bioavailable so you’ll want to watch your dosage. Here is info on krill oil from Dr. Becker: http://healthypets.mercola.com/sites/healthypets/krill-oil-for-pets.aspx

Here is an article from Dr. Becker on using Tumeric: http://healthypets.mercola.com/sites/healthypets/archive/2012/11/12/turmeric.aspx She provides dosage at the bottom. “Small to medium-sized dogs can be given 250 milligrams twice a day, and large to giant breeds should get 500 milligrams two to three times a day.” Here is an article on coconut oil if you haven’t seen it already: http://www.dogsnaturallymagazine.com/the-health-benefits-of-coconut-oil/

If I were feeding kibble from HDM’s list, my top picks would be Earthborn Holistic and Annamaet. I have fed both to my dog and he did really well on them. I haven’t used it but I like the look of Dr. Tim’s. I also used The Honest Kitchen. I’ve been using for almost 6 years now. It’s a dehydrated food that you rehydrate with water before serving. It’s not raw because it has been heated during the dehydration process, though at a lot lower temperature than what kibble is exposed to when being extruded. You can use it as a topper if you want. The Thrive and Love varieties are complete and balanced with the correct Ca/P ratio for a LBP.

[Sharon Buchanan]

BernerdAd ~
Just wanted to ditto Patty’s recommendation on pumpkin. It isn’t something I care to eat, but I keep a single can in my pantry just in case. When I have to open it up, another can goes on the grocery list.

Lablubber ~
I can’t remember if I read anywhere the age of your Lab. There’s a number of articles that HDM posted at the very beginning of this topic that address the correct percentage of calcium for large breed puppies. The figures vary somewhat, I chose to take the advice of Dr. Baker and keep Mystery’s calcium nearer to .80 percent. (My Mystery is an English Creme Golden Retriever – healthy adult weight will be about 85 pounds.)

I hadn’t found this forum when I was researching food so I ended up creating my own chart. I looked at calcium percentage as well as ingredients. I wasn’t going to feed junk (by-products, un-named meat meals, synthetic supplements, controversial ingredients – canola oil for one), no matter what the calcium percentage was. But I also wasn’t going to feed what I thought was the best kibble (no preservatives, no grains), if the calcium was higher than I believed it should be. I would have like to have been feeding Mystery Orijen or Acana but their calcium max for LBP is 1.5%. Though they say they try to keep it to the minimum 1%, they’d be okay feeding my dog nearly twice what he should’ve gotten. In the end, I chose Innova LBP kibble.

A simple explanation of the problem with too much calcium is, that a LBP less than six months old does not have the ability to process excess calcium properly. Too much calcium gets deposited on the outside of the bones which then causes bone disease. Again, this is the simple explanation – try reading all the articles HDM posted, some of them are a little more technical, but you’ll learn a lot from them. And don’t expect your vet to be familiar with the LBP study or any of the reports from that study. My vet said he wasn’t sure if he’d read any of them when I first mentioned diet concerns – and tried to make me feel like I couldn’t possibly know what I was talking about.

Back to the age of your Lab. Once a puppy has reached six months of age, he is able to process calcium better but even afterward, calcium still needs to be lower than what a small or medium size puppy can handle. I moved Mystery to Orijen LBP kibble just last month when he was 9 months old. To address your concern regarding transitioning foods, when Mystery’s Innova got down to the last pound, I added a pound of Orjen to it. When that was gone a few days later, it was all Orijen.

As far as expense goes, I considered Innova to be an average priced kibble – compared to Purina, Iams, Science Diet, or any other junk food. Orijen, on the other hand is going to cost more but is worth it – as far as kibble goes. Innova did have a recall last year at the time that I was feeding it to Mystery. I was forced to switch him over to Wellness – the next lowest calcium percentage, but I cringed at every meal because chicken meal is their third ingredient rather than first, and they use Sodium Selenite instead of Selenium Yeast. It looks like Innova has changed their LBP recipe – I don’t know what I’d do now if my only option to feed was kibble to a LBP.

BTW, when Innova had their recall, I had no choice but to switch Mystery to Wellness – without any transition. And my cats have never needed transitioning as I’ve upgraded their food. Obviously, common sense must rule if you see a problem cropping up because of the change.

I have to agree with Patty on Blue. In addition to their minimum calcium percentage being too high, they have three grains in their top five ingredients, they add chicken FLAVOR (why do they need flavoring?), sodium selenite and caramel which is used to make you, the purchaser feel good about the color of their garbage, as if your dog thinks caramel colored food tastes better than beige food. I also don’t like seeing oil of rosemary so high on their ingredient list since we had a Golden that had seizures (if your dog doesn’t have seizures rosemary oil/extract might not be a problem).

In retrospect, I should have started feeding Mystery raw when we first brought him home at 10 weeks instead of waiting until now when he is 10 months old. You will absolutely learn much here at dogfoodadvisor and especially in the forums. I would also suggest, if you have to continue feeding kibble, go to truthaboutpetfood.com and sign up for her free newsletter. She’s also on Facebook if you prefer. I will say though, that I credit Susan Thixton (truthaboutpetfood), with my decision to pursue a raw diet. Of course, it was here at the forums that I received the most encouragement to switch.

• This reply was modified 11 years, 10 months ago by Sharon Buchanan.

[Shasta220]

I know this is a dog forum, but my older girl, Maddy, has been quite thin lately. She has free choice of Chicken Soup dry, and I recently added Natural Balance canned. Now she only eats 1-2tbsp canned and won’t eat any dry. She acts perfectly normal and is checked out healthy

Are there any super high-calorie supplements or canned foods I can give her?

[Sue’s Zoo]

Sharon,

Dr. Frick had good general information but she doesn’t have a dog and isn’t doing it so not much in the way of practical advice. She did add a few supplements because one of my pups, Loki, has pulmonary stenosis so she gave some things to help his heart. She is looking over the actual meal plans and going to provide recommendations. She thought it all looked very good (I brought in a few of HDM’s meal plans from early in the Feeding Raw topic. She did say that it would be better to customize the herb and fruit supplements based on what each dog needs. And we discussed ways to do that. I’m going to take all the actual ones I use in and go over them with her next week.

I signed up for the Dogs Naturally conference. Thanks so much for providing that info. I’m looking forward to it and wish it was sooner! Not sure where you live. I placed my first order thru MyPetCarnivore.com. They make deliveries to various areas once a month, plus you can get orders delivered UPS but only when desperate as shipping for that type of delivery is expensive. I also found another place called rawpaws.org. They also run deliveries to several areas but I think both of these are primarily midwest US. Another frequently mentioned on this site is hare-today.com I haven’t looked into their shipping fees etc. I know they do ship fedex and UPS but no idea what it costs. I’ve also been able to find chicken backs and gizzards at Whole Foods; gizzards, liver, turkey necks at a local grocery store.

I will go through more of my info from Dr. Frick once I’ve had some time to digest and after we go over some specific diets etc next week.

[Sue’s Zoo]

Thanks Sharon, Patty and all research from HDM! It’s so good to have someone near the same point with feeding raw etc. It’s such a challenge! Can’t wait to check out the raw roundup internet conference. Thanks so much for sharing that. I too have used some frozen raw (Primal…and yes it’s VERY expensive) and will continue that when things are crazy here or I’m on vacation etc. but I really want to do the more natural whole raw most of the time.

I actually made the jump last week. Primarily because I found a specialist vet in our area that is holistic and does nutrition counseling for raw etc and figured I couldn’t do much harm in a week. I have an appointment with her tomorrow so I decided to start with some of HDMs raw diets from the beginning of the thread. (Wow!! A LOT of work!) But I’m convinced this vet can provide support because she helped so much with our GSD several years ago. He was such an awesome GSD but somewhere between 7 and 8 years old he started showing signs of DM (degenerative myelopathy). Our traditional vet gave us 6 months max with him but a friend recommended Dr. Ava Frick so we took Baron to see her. Thanks to Dr. Frick and stim therapy, acupuncture and natural supplements we were blessed to have a full 18 QUALITY months with our boy. So I checked with her and found that she does do nutrition counseling etc.

Both pups are going to see her tomorrow so we can discuss raw diets and the best way for them to get the best nutrition possible. All our dogs, other than Baron, died from some form of cancer affecting the digestive organs. Can’t help but feel that diet was the primary factor. So I’m determined to do anything in my power to provide these pups with quality food and life.

Have to say I’ve been overwhelmed a lot during the last week but I’m glad I started ahead of time. So many more questions to ask from a much more ‘real world’ vantage point! The younger pup is barely over 4 months but does pretty good with chicken backs. I will relax with it much more in the next 3 to 4 weeks as she gain her adult teeth. She just worries me with the way she attacks her food! The older male (all of 7 months) is more mellow in many ways and will lay on his rug with a turkey neck or chicken back and take time to enjoy it. But I have to say it’s a lot like watching my kids eat a meal I’ve prepared. Very fulfilling 🙂

BTW, we have all hardwood floors so I have struggled with feeding spots and found that the one that works best for me (us) is a large machine washable rug per dog covered with a large bath sheet (towel). The rug keeps the towel in place and most of the time I can just wash the towels and re-use. The rug beneath only needs an occasional wash.

I will post what I hear from Dr. Frick after the visit tomorrow. And I will also include some of the challenges I’ve hit over the last week along with any suggestions to help address them.

[Sharon Buchanan]

Sue’s Zoo ~

I am a nanobyte of information away from going raw. I spent two months researching the best kibble to buy for my Golden puppy and now I’ve spent another eight months researching the best way to feed my growing boy and have come to the conclusion that raw is the way to go. Unfortunately, I am also concerned about balancing not only calcium and phosphorus but everything else, protein, veggies, supplements.

Being at a similar point in the raw decision as you (everyone makes it out to be no big deal but it is intimidating nevertheless), the best I can offer is to share a few things I’ve learned along the way and hope it’s helpful.

Having had a Golden that required double-hip surgery before she was two, proper bone growth was a huge concern for me. If you’ve been to the LBP nutrition forum (/forums/topic/large-and-giant-breed-puppy-nutrition/#post-33156), you’ve probably already read some of the suggestions that Hound Dog Mom posted at the beginning of the thread. If you haven’t, do – It would’ve saved me a lot of research time if I’d found the forum ten months ago. Although I waded through the technical jargon in many of the articles, I found the article by Baker most useful and objective. Now that Mystery is 10 months old, I’m allowing more calcium in his diet than Baker’s recommended .8%. I’ve changed his kibble to one with a higher calcium content (from Innova to Orijen), and have started giving him an occasional RMB and raw egg (yeah, puppy steps).

I can’t speak to whether a puppy should eat raw bones until their adult teeth are in except to say that when I asked my breeder about food choices, I was told he starts giving his puppies chicken backs at six months.

As far as balanced nutrition goes, I’ve considered “balanced” frozen raw brands but they really are expensive and there’s much debate as to whether they’re safe. I’ve read so much conflicting, contradictory and even argumentative information that I have to take a few days off research just to clear my head. Sometimes I wonder if I’ll ever get my Mystery off kibble.

That said, I did find an Internet conference (what will they think of next), on feeding raw that is hosted by Dogs Naturally Magazine. You can find more information here: http://www.dogsnaturallymagazine.com/raw-roundup/. It isn’t until the end of the month but I’ve already registered and am hopeful to glean that last nanobyte of information so that Mystery will be eating only raw in March.

[Lablubber]

Hi it’s me again..

I have almost completely finished transitioning over from the food my breeder had my pup on to Blue Chicken and Rice Large Breed Puppy Food with nothing but good results. I have taken a little over a month and 4 days to accomplish that in and his stool are solid and no stomach issues…. Right now I am at 80 % transition 80% BLue/20% Purina Puppy Chow Lg. Breed Food. Right now I am also adding a teaspoon of coconut oil, a teaspoon of ground flaxseed and some fish oil, about 1000mg.

I am not using any toppers except at night for his supper meal and that is canned Blue Puupy Food about a 1/5th to 1/4th of a can. And his coat is shiny and he seems to be doing very well on it…

But for me where my problem arises is from me reading and listening to all of you guys….I almost feel like if I am not alternating out a bunch of different foods and using different kinds of toppers and adding numerous supplements to his food, then it makes me feel like I am shortchanging my dog???

And please believe me….. I have not spared any expense on my part that I know of concerning him and I really do not want to do the raw diet because I have had too many people I know who have had their dogs, get serious bacterial infections from it and some have even died from sluffing off their intestinal lining and dying of anemia before they could be saved by IV feeding and a harsh round of antibiotics.

So for me….This particular dog is just way too valuable for me to ever chance that and believe me I am not here to make any enemies by saying that but I just want you know my logic behind what I am doing with him so far. But then I also have to say this as well and something that I have found out in life myself and some wise words of wisdom and that is this…. Just because someone does something different or feels differently about another idea or approach to your particular way of doing things….Doesn’t neccessarily make them wrong….It just makes them different…! There i said it…My sermon for the day….

So anyway I took painstakingly long with my Labrador Retriever pup after listening to all of you guys and even forsaking what my vet said and changed over to a food that I read about and researched over for many hours and also a food that I had access to, to buy very readily, that I didn’t have to worry about ever running out of even where some of the online food stood the chance of having weather related delays in shipping, that it would not be running. And so I chose a food that I have seen proven to do well with my friend’s large breed dogs. And then I made a just a very few additions to the food, just to make me feel better.

I did as all of you said ion here and I cut out the milk replacer that I had always feed my pups for the first six months of their lives and longer is I saw the need to do so and I did thatimmediately. So anyway…He appears to be doing extremely well. Although he had to have several surgeries yesterday because he had a slight hernia that had to be repaired from a overzealous Lab mother licking him over and over all the time and never letting his navel ever truly heal up right. The he also had a dewclaw removed that either regrew or was missed by the breeder’s vet originally and he also had a place on his leg that had been cut while he was young at the breeder’s kennel that did not grow back right and so my vet did a little cosmetic repair there as well while he was out at no charge and she also micro-chipped him as well while he was out due to the fact that she hates to stick such a big needles in pups at that age if she can help it and so she prefers to have them out at the time of insertion and so she did that procedure as well..

So needless to say, my little fellow was exceptionally glad to see me when he I cam to pick him up….. He came home though like the walking wounded with a front leg dewclaw removed, a back leg, scar tissue repair, a hernia repair and a microchip inserted just at his shoulders along with an antibotic shot just above it, wearing an Elizabethen (sp.) collar to boot, so he was not a very happy puppy last night…. And today he is wired to a tee at work with me here today, needless to say.

So now for the advice part part….. Is the extra stuff I add to his food….The tsp. of coconut oil, the fish oil (which will be changed over to Krill oil when it gets here) and a teaspoon of ground flaxseed meal added to his food twice a day… Does all of that sound good to the ones in the know on here to be adding to his food or is that an over-kill???

Then on the medical part or at least the vaccination part of his regime…. He has had 3 series of shots so far… And I plan on having one more done just to be on the safe side, although my vet. says the 3 completes his regime. Plus he still has his Rabies shot coming up as well…. So does that suffice for his puppy shots being complete or is there anything more I need to be checking into???

I have read quite a few vets who did not reccomend them getting coronavirus or leptospirosis shots anymore(As well as my own vet feels the same way). But for me…Jess will be competing in AKC and UKC Hunter Retriever Trials and therefore he will be around a whole lot of other dogs in close proximity, so I just want to make sure that I have all of my bases covered with him as far as shots, intranasal and any other immunizations that he might need.

I am going to look into get his Lyme and Botedella vaccinations as well, but what is you guys thoughts on a working retriever and his vaccination requirements???

So that is about it today and I know i write very long but I figure if I don’t know, I never will without asking… So thank you for your patience…

Lablubber

[Sully’sMom]

I just mistakenly posted this under a potato grain free forum…this is where I intended to go (that’s what I get for rushing while I’m at work!):

Hi all, I’ve been silent for a while. I did pose this question on a forum under Supplements, but thought I’d come back to my reliable group and post it here as well, as there’s always so much invaluable help and not sure if all the same parties participate in the different forums. Thank you for your indulgence:

Sully (1 yr, 7 mo yellow lab) has recently been diagnosed with allergies, most specifically to dust and storage mites (there are others, but these are the biggies). If anyone remembers us, we’ve been dealing with this for awhile, so this is actually a welcome finding – at least now we can proceed with some action! I was reading an article in the Nov 2013 issue of Whole Dog Journal about the wonders of coconut oil, and I thought this might help. Can anyone offer opinions/advice? Recommendations? It seems from the picture accompanying the article that there is no shortage of product options!

Appreciate any help I can get, as I’d like allergy resorts to be a last resort, not a first. Thank you!

[theBCnut]

That’s the one. I use my horse joint supplements on my dogs too. My horse didn’t like the taste of that one though. Your dogs would use just the littlest pinch of it. I also use Cortaflex, also a horse supplement.

[theBCnut]

Hi dchassett

I don’t know how much help I’ll be, but I’ll try. I believe the leg trembling could be because she is losing muscle mass in her rear legs. I’ve seen that in dogs with spinal arthritis and degenerative disc disease. As they lose muscle, their remaining muscle fatigues faster. I think there is probably not much you can do about it, except to make sure that she gets regular walks and consistant gentle exercise. As far as the joint supplement, Dasuquin is the one vets recommend because it’s made by the makers of Cosequin, and cosequin actually has some research behind them. I have always had the best results with supplements containing MSM and HA. I have many times bought MSM seperately because I wanted to try a supplement that didn’t have it. The one that I have had the absolute best results with was called Joint Armor.

[Dori]

Hi Patty,
I have a 14 year old Maltese. She has two degenerated discs mid spine and has begun to have back legs tremble. Sometimes both at the same time, some times only one at a time. Never both at the same time and it doesn’t happen all the time either. The vet said it’s something called white dog syndrome. I’ve done tons of research on line and it does not appear to me that that’s what she is suffering from. White dog syndrome makes the entire body tremble. Anyway, she doesn’t appear to be in the least bit of pain. Vet gave me a prescription for Rimadyl but that didn’t make any difference in her whatsoever. So, I’m hoping you can give me some guidance. She’s been on Glucosamine Chondritin for a few years (degenerative discs). Is there a particular brand you have tried that seems to have better results. I know all dogs as with humans respond differently to supplements but the vet has her taking Dasaquin with MSM. I’ve got a feeling it’s probably the one that all vets prescribe, kinda like a Hills Diet deal. Also, how much should be be taking daily. She weighs 8 lbs. My girls are all on Primal Pronto diet with fresh veggies and fruits. I’m trying desperately to do everything I can for her and have her live a longer healthier life. She saved my life when my son passed away 7 years ago so I need to do for her what she has done for me. Thank you!

[Shasta220]

We are looking around for ActiFlex 4000 for our dogs right now. It’s the only economical joint supplement that we can find so far… At $30-40 for 32oz (aka 64tbsp or 192tsp), I figured it’s better than $20 for a 15-20 day supply.

Anyway, how many mg of glucosamine should Cassy get? She’s a 12y.o. Labrador/GSD, weighing about 65lb.

Here’s the supplemental values of an ounce (2tbsp) of Actiflex:
Glucosamine Sulfate 8,000 mg.
Chondroitin Sulfate 4,000 mg.
Type II Collagen 3,000 mg.
MSM 3,000 mg.
Ester C (Ascorbic Acid) 1,000 mg.
Yucca 150 mg.
Hyaluronic Acid (HA) 125 mg.

One tsp has about 1,333mg glucosamine, so half as much chondroitin, etc. I think I’ve read somewhere that the suggested dosage for a dog her size would be 1/2tsp (1tsp for first week)… That’d be about 666mg glucosamine. Is that a good amount for her, or could she handle more?

There /is/ glucosamine/chondroitin in her food, but she gets barely 100mg of g and 15-20 of c, so it doesn’t do anything for her.

Thanks for the help! I’m really not looking for suggestions about a better supplement out there, because this is the only thing so far that will work with my wallet, as I’m an unemployed teenager who pays for all of Cassy’s extra supplements. I’m just wondering about proper dosage and what the max amount of glucosamine a senior 65lb pooch can get.

[theBCnut]

Not all fish oils have too much vit A, cod liver oil is known for that. Vit E is used to stablize many fish oils so you should check yours first, especially tubes and pumps.

The dosage for vit E is
<25lbs 50-100IU/day
25-50lbs 100-200IU/day
50-75lbs 200-300IU/day
75-100lbs 300-400IU/day
>100lbs 400IU/day

Older fish oils will have used up the Vit E used to stabilize it, so that’s why using capsules is usually recommended, but either way always make sure your fish oil is fresh.

The other thing to keep in mind is that there are actually 8 different vit Es, most supplements only have the 4 tocopherols. NOW Foods has a Gamma E complex that actually has all 8 Es in it.

[minit]

my 20lb, 13 yr old JRT suffers from mitral valve disease & an enlarged heart. He was eating Nature’s Variety Instinct dry until about 6 months ago when he started to lose his appetite. Switched to Instinct canned over the next few months until he stopped eating that as well. Have always hesitated changing his food too rapidly because of diarrhea & resulting anal gland issues, but have just taken the plunge & bought a variety of super premium wet foods in the hope of just keeping him interested. Added Swanson’s Dr.Langer’s 15 strain probiotics to his cocktail of drugs & supplements. He looks good & is gaining back a little weight, but the diarrhea, gas & noisy gut are worse. To put things in perspective, he’s outlived his life expectancy by 2 years since his heart disease was discovered. Every day we have is a gift at this point. He doesn’t seem to be able to keep large meals down (perhaps because his heart is so enlarged it reduces the capacity of his stomach) so I feed him 3 small meals a day. He likes canned pumpkin, but it doesn’t seem to help much w/ the diarrhea & I worry that he’s not getting enough protein & fat if I add too much to his small meals… I think I’m going to have to give up on the variety of canned foods & go back to just one for as long as he’ll eat it to stave off the diarrhea. What’s my best bet for high protein/fat yet not going to make his digestive issues worse?

[Shasta220]

Thank you for the advice. I’m not sure how I’ll phrase it to him, as I really don’t want to come across as basically calling him a bad/uneducated owner for feeding his dogs that, because he’s one of the best dog owners I know!

I will probably end up just sending him the link to this site, and say how surprised I am about how high (or low) quality some foods are….maybe he’d get curious and check his food out.

I’m definitely going to ignore the canned food for now. Honestly, it’d be incredible if he kept them on Alpo canned, but switched them to a 3-4star dry food. I think one of his biggest issues is the fact that he probably doesn’t really want to make time to go to a feed store for better food (Walmart and grocery stores are all we have around here other than the feed stores that sell dogfood – PetCo/Smart/Costco are 50+mi)

Any extra moral support would be great though, because this guy is…well, he’s more like a second grandfather to me than anything, so there’s a high amount of respect to get through.

I’ve already told him about a great deal on joint supplements, I told him the cost on this is about 1/4 what we were paying on regular supplements. He said he’ll probably do it when they start showing signs of joint problems – they’re 7y.o. Now, so it’s really the perfect time to get em started /before/ the signs come. I just told him I’m getting my 6yr boy on it… Trying to avoid saying, in any form, that I know everything about dog health (because I DEFINITELY don’t)

Thanks again guys, I will keep you posted on any updates, that’s for sure!

[A.Sandy]

Supplements are not recommended if you are already feeding a complete balanced meal because it will cause an unbalance of nutrients instead. and cod liver is actually the oil you have to avoid giving the most because of the high level of vitamin A in will cause liver toxicity ,and finally calcium can cause deficiencies in bones as well. so careful, careful, careful!

-Ana pet nutrition expert/ advisor
@pupfacts
pupcatnutrition.com