[Susan]

Hi T.G has your girl only ever eaten just Orijen kibble have you tried any other kibbles cause of her poos are soft?
you need to try a lower protein & a lower fat kibble some dogs just do not do well on high protein high fat kibbles, I have to stay under 28% for protein & stay under 15% for fat & need a lower Kcal/per cup ME kibble, under 380 Kcals/per cup….

I would not feed a senior kibble to a large breed puppy the senior kibbles have more Glucosamine, Chondroitin & Phosphorus, supplements for older dogs joints & you have a large breed you don’t want her bones to grow too quick…maybe someone else may know more…
I’ve emailed kibble companies cause I’ve seen large breed kibbles that have ingredients that my boy can eat & the fat & protein is what Patch does well on, I’ve asked them can I feed a large breed formula to my medium size dog & they have all yes its Ok to feed my boy a large breed kibble but I don’t think it’s a good idea to feed a senior formula to a large breed growing pup…
My boy is turning 8 in a few days & I don’t feed him a senior kibble some are too high in fiber for him & all the supplements they add don’t survive or aren’t as strong as when you add your own supplement to their diet & add a healthy fresh whole food to their diet…

You have to be careful with your dog doing sloppy poos everyday that she doesn’t get thickening of the bowel as she gets older. My boy is a rescue & has IBD, his vet was very worried that Patch may have thickening of the bowel & I didn’t want Patch opened up to find out so Patch had an Ultra Scan of the bowel, pancreas, stomach etc & from what the vet could see it didn’t look like Patch had thickening of the bowel….after rotating cooked foods & different kibbles he can just be put straight onto another brand of kibble that he has eatin before I don’t have to re introduce the kibble like I use too 3 yrs ago, but I stick with kibbles that are lower in fat & lower in protein cause he just can’t handle the higher Kcal formulas.. I also fed a home cooked meal for breakfast or swap around & feed cooked meal for dinner…

I’d start rotating between different brands & proteins this way if 1 kibble isn’t balanced properly, or something else is wrong with the kibble like the omega 6 is too high & the omega 3 is real low causing health problems this way they are not eating the same kibble for too long to cause any serious health problems…
I’d start looking at other large breed formula’s where the protein fat is lower then what she’s eating at the moment also change the protein get a different protein…

There’s Earthborn Holistic, they have never had a recall, there’s “Victor” or “Sport Dog Food Elite” Sport Dog Food has similar ingredients as Victor kibble but is cheaper, there’s Ziwi Peak is air dried raw & has wet tin foods as well my cat loves Ziwi Peak…There’s Canidae there’s a few really good kibbles around, they all don’t have to be 5 stars kibble…start adding fresh whole foods to the kibble…I follow Rodney Habib on face Book he’s got a really good video this week about chicken kibbles being high in omega 6 & very low in omega 3….
Start rotating one of these brands in your rotation that is lower in fat & protein with different ingredients also look at the Kcals per cup, pick a kibble that is lower in Kcals per cup then the Orijen she is eating at the moment…I can not feed any kibbles that are over 400Kcals per cup to my IBD dog, it’s just too much for him to digest & he does sloppy big poos about 3-4 a day…
I like kibbles where he only does 2 poos a day, “Taste Of The Wild” Sierra Mountain Roasted Lamb & Canidae Life Stages, All Life Stages formula, he only does 2 firm poos a day & poo’s are small….

Home Page

http://www.sportdogfood.com/grain-free-large-breed-large-bites-30-14/
http://www.canidae.com/dog-food/products
http://ziwipeak.com/

[Cannoli]

Hi Logan and Kim,

I like your preparation. One thing that I learned early on is investing in a good blender like a Vitamix. It helps cut down on the time in preparing the veggies. Just throw all the veggies in the blender with whatever additional supplements you like. It even has a setting to cook the veggies in the blender to keep the nutrients. Heck I even cooked squash and pumpkin in my blender. I just cut the pieces really thin and small. Throw them into the blender and it steams them up and cooks them.

• This reply was modified 9 years, 4 months ago by Cannoli.

[Karen K]

I’m adding in green tripe to my dogs kibble but am wondering about the calorie content of the tripe. Also, how much tripe should I be adding as a supplement?

[Salz]

Susan- YES! I do plan to buy a ton of my current raw and make it last for as long as possible! And thank you for the suggestion, I will check out that website!

Cannoli- I know that raw is expensive no matter the route, I’m just looking for the cheapest-still-good-quality options. I don’t think I’ll switch to cooked any time soon, but thank you for that suggestion. Jax had lots of GI issues as a young puppy and the only option I’ve tried that’s been successful is raw. For a free dog, he’s ended up being very expensive 😉 I was mostly just curious if anyone has had success supplementing their raw with grocery store meat, with added calcium (since grocery store meat doesn’t contain ground bone for obvious reasons). Thank you so much for your help nonetheless!

[Susan W]

VeRUS has a cold water fish formula with Menhaden fish as the base.
Here is the ingredient list: Salmon, Menhaden Fish Meal, Lentils, Chickpeas, Green Peas, Barley, Chicken Fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols), Tapioca, Herring, Herring Meal, Yams, Natural Flavors, Menhaden Fish Oil (preserved with mixed tocopherols), Flaxseed, Chicory Extract, Dried Cranberry, Tomato Pomace, Dried Carrots, Kelp, Dried Pumpkin, Dried Pediococcus acidilactici Fermentation Product, Salt, Vitamin E Supplement, L-Ascorbyl-2-Polyphosphate (source of Vitamin C), Niacin Supplement, Biotin, Thiamine Mononitrate, L-Carnitine, d-Calcium Pantothenate, Riboflavin Supplement, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Vitamin A Acetate, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Folic Acid, Choline Chloride, Potassium Chloride, Zinc Proteinate, Betaine Anhydrous, Iron Proteinate, Selenium Yeast, Copper Proteinate, Manganese Proteinate, Calcium Iodate

As an aside…I thought my dogs were allergic to chicken & beef & all things gluten. Turns out they had mites. You can try dusting your dog with food grade DE powder. If they stop scratching, food isn’t the problem.

VeRUS sends fantastic samples f you want to give them a try.

[Sharon H]

I wonder if it would be possible to have a comparison made between Nutramax Cosequin,and Nature Vet ArthriSoothe-GOLD. I have been using the Nature Vet one, but the costs are really high, and I find I cannot afford them now. But there is the Nutramax brand, which is very much less expensive. The main three ingredients, Glucosamine, Methylsulfonymethane (MSM) and Chondroitin, are more of less equal mg’s in each brand. I would be grateful if you could give me your opinion of these two brands, and whether you think it would be harmful to my dog to switch to the cheaper brand
Thank you….Shoo

[Cannoli]

Hi Sally Z,

I am not sure how much cheaper you want to get when feeding raw meat to your dog. Eventually the cheaper you go the less quality and safety you get.

Nothing wrong with store bought meat or poultry. I feed that to my dog but I COOK it first. Nothing wrong with feeding your dogs cooked protein. As long you you add the necessary supplements afterwards to balance it on a weekly basis.. I have discovered that feeding cook food is cheaper than feeding my pup raw. Supermarkets always have sales on fish, turkey, pork, and chicken.

Heck I am now feeding my pup raw food once a week out of the month and the other weeks I feed him cooked proteins.

Anyway in regards to bone replacement you can use eggshells, calcium seaweed (found on Amazon-the bottle lasts for months cost is less than $20), bone meal powder (found on amazon just make sure it does not have added vitamins.

Organ is cheap to find at supermarket just slighlty braise them to kill any bacteria. Or what I like to do at times is I make liver and organ treats by putting them in a dehydrator.

Or you can buy pre-made dehydrated organ and liver treats online. Just make sure they are 100 made in America and are organic free range.

• This reply was modified 9 years, 4 months ago by Cannoli. Reason: added more context
• This reply was modified 9 years, 4 months ago by Cannoli. Reason: typo

[Salz]

Hey all! I’ve got some questions regarding bone replacement. I have an 8 month old Doberman mix who’s been on raw since he was 3 months old. He gets a mixture of Honest Kitchen Kindly base mix and a variety of raw meat grinds which contain organ, meat and bone. Our living/work situation does not permit me to feed him RBM’s as his entire diet so he gets them about once a week. I understand that many raw feeders think that BARF is the only way, but please understand that I’m not in a position to go that route.

My problem is this: I currently buy most of my grinds from Ecopawz, a small SF based company (we live in Oakland!). I get a huge employee discount for working at a company that sells their products. My last day at this company is on Nov 22nd so I will no longer get the discount, which means a huge added cost every month! The prices are as follows for 5# of meat: $22.50 for beef, $17.50 for turkey, and $13.50 for chicken. I’m trying to brainstorm ways to lower the cost. Does anyone know of a company that sells grinds for dogs at a lower price? OR, is there a way I can supplement with grocery store bought meat with added bone nutrient (egg shells?) and organ meat? Anything helps here! My boy eats a TON of food so the cost is already high, which is ok with me. But I do need to slightly lower the cost, and I’m ready for any ideas you might have. Thanks!

Sally & Jax

[anonymous]

I think it would be best to ask the veterinarian that is treating your dog, dogs that have kidney disease tend to be nauseous. Food supplements often interact with prescription meds.
Your dog has a history of medical problems, plus he is a senior. Coconut oil is high in fat and calorie content. The younger dog may tolerate it, but the older one, not so much.
Hope this helps:

Coconut Oil for Pets?

[Kathy N]

We have had extensive blood testing done on our 22 month old Rottweiler who has lost weight, not gained it, over the past six months. His pancreatic functioning appears to check out; they are watching one of his blood plasma levels. He was found to have some hook worms through more advanced testing. No eggs showed up in the fecal sample. He has undergone treatment for that, and will be retested in the next few days. (We are no longer taking him to the dog park where he likely contracted it.) He runs hard playing ball and around the yard throughout the day. He is muscular and fit, but his ribs and spine are visible. At nearly two years of age he weighs only 64 lbs, and is a papered AKC purebred. We are looking for a high protein, grain free food that is available on the remote island of Kauai. I have a list of the the Editor’s choice 5 star rated foods. He may have absorption issues in the small intestine, and may have food allergies. We supplement his diet with hard boiled eggs and small portions human grade meat several times a week. Anyone have any experience in this area?

[Susan]

Hi, my boy has IBD & Skin Allergies I went thru a Naturopath to put Patch on a raw diet, the Naturopath would not allow any bone in Patches diet, I had to used a supplement instead… Have you looked into supplementing the bone with egg shell or a supplement like I used for Patch…

[Jenn H]

T-dub
Of course food intolerances go away. The aggravating factor has been eliminated.
A dog may be diagnosed with having a food “allergy” to chicken, but if fed chicken from a different source (farm) they may not have any problems.

It’s perfectly fine for a dog to eat animal by-products. Americans tend not to eat this stuff, but other countries do. The by-products can be anything from cartilage to organs. Organs are loaded with good stuff.
Chipmunks, snakes, field mice aren’t considered good enough for human consumption, but my dog will happily eat them when she finds them on the farm. I don’t know if she’s getting much or any nutrients from them, and I wouldn’t eat them, but that’s the difference between humans and animals. She doesn’t like fruit, I do. We’re different. I’m not going to force her to eat something or not based on whether I would or wouldn’t. I feed her what I believe to provide the best possible nutrition for her that helps her thrive and keeps her healthy. And if it happens to be more sustainable than that’s a bonus. (Veganism is not a sustainable option. But that’s a whole other rant.)

Poor breeding is to blame for cancers and degenerative diseases. People will breed anything. They just want to get paid. It’s hard to find breeders who do genetic testing and are careful to keep their breeding stock optimal. Many breed for show. Which if you’ve ever seen the conformation of show dogs will notice how deformed they actually are compared to their healthier ancestors.

I do believe food is the most important part of preventing health problems and sustaining the health of any animal once they are born, but before that breeding only the healthiest must be done.

Many humans do well on vegan diets for a while because they have cut calories, decreased junk food, increased fruits & vegs. Then they don’t feel great because they become malnourished.
Even they supplement what the food is missing they still aren’t getting the best possible source of that nutrient as it’s better to get nutrients from foods than replacing with synthetic versions.
Short term veganism has its benefits (for some humans), but no one can say with certainty that long term benefits for anyone exist.

[CockalierMom]

Hi Steve,

I cannot offer any suggestions as to a canned food to recommend for diabetes/pancreatitis but can say that the two brands you mentioned are a lot higher in fat than the RC GILF. The GILF shows 1% min and 2.5% max for fat. To compare canned foods, you will need to convert to a dry matter basis since there is a difference in moisture content. On a dry matter basis, the GILF is 4% minimum and 10% maximum fat whereas the lowest fat TOW is a minimum of 16.5% fat on a dry matter basis and they do not state what the maximum is. This is a huge difference and I think it may be too high but check with your vet to be sure.

The other thing I wanted to mentioned is the GILF contains prebiotics and that is probably why he had a good stool on it and runny when you tried homemade. One food that I know is low fat and low carb is THK Zeal, however he would probably have a runny stool with it unless you tried adding THK Perfect Form or some other prebiotic/probiotic supplement.

Hopefully someone else will be along that can offer some food suggestions based on their experience.

[Mary V]

Kirstie M… I guess, the best reason I can think of to feed sardines is because they are so nutrient dense. High quality protein. Bones and “guts” intact – also one comment endorses feeding raw sardines, but I have no idea where to get them on a consistent basis. Freeze dried might be a good option:http://www.mycanadianpets.ca/gpage3.html.

I’m getting an Irish Setter puppy in a few weeks and I will be supplementing her kibble diet with some sardines, as well as some lightly steamed vegetables (http://dogaware.com/articles/dwveggies.html) and a little fruit. I also am thinking I will add dehydrated Green Tripe: http://ivcjournal.com/raw-green-tripe/.

I think you should relax. Even dogs are only fed med-high quality kibble seem to do just fine. I have a 13 year old Aussie bitch who’s eaten mostly Purina One dog food all of her life. She has been virtually problem free health wise, and still acts like a much younger dog. I’ve moved her to a grain free of late, and she likes it better and continues to do very well.

Hope this is of use to you.

[Cannoli]

My pup liked Orijen but I switched him to half raw half home cooked about 6 months ago.

I gave up on kibble. At the end of the day Orijen is expensive stale kibble that has sat on shelf for weeks. At the price you pay for Orijen you can make your own dog food

I only feed my pup raw organic meat or bison or tripe every other protein source I cook for him. Raw Chicken, pork, and fish scare me so I cook those. If you do the research there are plenty of organic supplements that you can provide to balance your meal. Heck you can even make your own organic supplements if you have a good blender.

Good luck

[Pam G]

On that 27 year old dog – I have nine small Poodle mutts romping around my fenced one acre lot in a ritzy subdivision and they find it against their ethics to allow ANY chipmunk on the property. Their solution is to catch and kill those chipmunks and, yep, a fair number of the critters inevitably end up as dog lunch.

If Poodle mutts can catch little varmints as mine do, you bet your britches a large, quick dog like the one that lived to be 27 could do the same and more. Maybe Vegetable Mama believed her darling was living only on lentils and rice but if that dog had access to the great outdoors, the chances are excellent the dog was supplementing that mush with mice, gophers, chipmunks, rabbits and whatever else in the way of meat that hopped across his path.

The other point you Vegetable People are missing is your insistence that as omnivores dogs can live strictly on a vegan diet without meat because they aren’t true carnivores. I will point out that if that is true, then they should be able to live off RAW vegetable matter, RAW grains, RAW beans, raw fruit, NONE OF IT COOKED. That, of course, would be the natural state of affairs omnivores would face. And I notice all you Vegetable People feed your mutts either cooked extruded dog food or cooked mixtures and mushes of various sorts.

On the other hand, dogs can lived quite healthily on a balance of meat, organ meat, bones with the occasional addition of vegetable matter. Heck, I know one hunt that used to feed their hounds by shooting an old horse or cow out in the back of the exercise paddock and letting the pack eat it down, picking up the skeletal remains and pieces of hide before leading another old cow or horse out there for the next week’s feeding.

THAT is the natural diet of dogs. As every other reasonably intelligent dog person on this forum has stated, look at your dog’s teeth. They sure as heck would never be mistaken for the teeth of a herbivore, would they? No way, because dogs are carnivores but can subsist on other stuff if it comes down to living or starving to death.

Either way, as vegans are so against anything that eats meat, why the heck do you guys even own carnivorous pets to start with? I would think dogs and cats would make you recoil in horror and send you racing to buy a rabbit or hamster – beasts that share your ideals of eating only plant material.

[Susan]

Hi it’s great you have rescued an older dog, since her old owner said she cant eat chicken then she must suffer with food sensitivities, I would change her food ASAP, my boy scratched & scratched on Royal Canine HP & Gastrointestinal & Hills Z/d vet diets, made him worse…..
Find a limited ingredient food with least ingredients 3-5 ingredients also make sure the fat & protein isn’t too high and is around the same as what she is use to eating….
Baths go & get some Malaseb medicated shampoo, Malaseb kills any bacteria on the skin, it softens the coat & relieves itchy skin, as soon as she starts her scratching give her a bath & wash off any allergens & pollens on her skin & paws that’s if she is having environment allergies, it may be food sensitives, my boy has both… Baths relieve their skin, I bath my boy weekly every Thursday, I use to bath him daily especially when his paws were red & itchy now I put Hydrocortisone 1% cream I check his paws every night while he’s sleeping.. You leave the Malaseb on for 5-10mins if you can, I massage Patch as long as I can about 5mins then rinse off with bath water then empty the bath & rinse all the Malaseb off with clean water…..
I did elimination diet & found he can’t eat chicken, barley, oats, maize, corn meal, carrot, he would get his red paws 20mins after eating chicken & barley, itchy body after eating carrot, oats, barley, corn…. also look for an omega 3 supplement & add to her diet or feed tin sardines in spring water or olive oil, give about 3 small sardines a day as a treat or added to her meal… I would start adding 1/4 new kibble for 2 days then 1/2 cup new kibble for the next 2 days see how her poos are going, if poos are good then on the 5th day just feed the new kibble you have bought…..With the new kibble you have bought I hope the ingredients are different to the Royal Canine she is eating at the moment…. Normally a fish kibble is the best to start on…
“Canidae” Pure Sea http://www.canidae.com/dog-food/products
“California Natural” Lamb & Brown Rice has just 3 ingredients.. http://www.californianaturalpet.com/products
I wouldn’t start any prednisone yet all prednisone does is puts the immune system in remission then as soon as you reduce the prednisone & stop giving it, your back to where you were before you started the Prednisone, Prednisone is just a band aid… If after the baths twice a week & new food & cream she is still in a bad way then book appointment to see a Dermatologist as they specialize in dogs skin problems. In the long run you’ll save money seeing a Dermatologist.
I also wipe my boy paws after walking with the Huggie baby wipes Aloe & Cucumber or they have just brought out new baby wipe Coconut wipes, I use 1 baby wipe per paw & a new wipe for face/head.. When at supermarket or chemist look in baby section for “Sudocrem”… I put the Sudocrem cream on Patches paws when it’s been raining for a few days as Patch gets red paws from walking in rain water & the Sudocrem acts as a barrier & stops any red & itchy paws… Between the new food, the baths twice a week or as soon as she scratches & using the Sudocrem cream you will see an improvement..
Keep a diary & you will start to see a pattern over the years… My boy has seasonal allergies & food sensitivities, he’s fine thru the winter months as long as he’s eating foods that agree with him, then as soon as Spring/Summer come he starts rolling & rubbing his body on my rug & is itchy…. Good luck Lucy I hope she is feeling better soon.

[crazy4cats]

Hi Bag of Opals-
I make a homemade meal for my two dogs now and then using a recipe I formulated on balanceit.com. I use ground beef that I buy human grade at the grocery store. (Costco, of course) The ingredients also include rice, veggies, and applesauce. Then, I add the BalanceIt supplement to make sure it has all the necessary minerals and vitamins. I forgot to mention that it is all cooked, not raw. They love it!
I’ve tried a few premixes that they also liked, but did not usually digest the ingredients very well. The site has free formulas and is run by a veterinary community. They, however, do not recommend feeding raw. Give it a try if you are interested in making a cooked homemade meal!

• This reply was modified 9 years, 5 months ago by crazy4cats.

[chris]

@anon101, thanks for the information, greatly appreciated! I noted to them about seeing a dermatologist.

@Pitluv, I highly doubt it is hot spots, we had another k9 that was diagnosed with hot spots before and this is completely different in my opinion as well. I will note to them also to start giving a annual salmon oil supplement, as well as tell them about the Malaseb as i’m not sure what they are currently using during baths.

[S G]

maybe/maybe not depending on how bad it is, here is a story so you understand……it’s a horrible battle if the dog as inflammatory bowel disease. years ago my shitzu was so sick, his stools had mucus and were soft, he curled up in a tight ball and laid around all the time, he was restless at night, so finally i spent a ton of money an a colon and endoscopy because the vet did NOT believe me and tons of stools tests were done. The results came back and the vet was shocked – SEVERE inflammatory bowel disease. They told me he wouldn’t live more than 6 months. So i contacted a holistic vet and changed his diet to RAW and holistic supplements, what did I have to loose, it took 18 months before his gut healed and even then he still had bouts if i ever gave him a snack. All he could tolerate was RAW, it was a BIG hassle to feed raw and HUGE expense including the supplements, but it saved his life and he lived another 8 years, the first of those 8 years were NOT easy. He was my best friend, I can’t believe all i did for him, but I loved him so much. He finally passed 3 months ago (from a stroke from tooth infection, yet i scaled his teeth twice a month just not far enough under the gum line) and I’m still grieving, he meant the world to me.

[pitlove]

In my pharmacology textbook fatty acid supplements are categorized as miscellaneous therapeutic agents. The source has to be of good quality, for example, my teacher said wild caught salmon is a much better source of fatty acids than farm raised. But fatty acid supplementation definitely works! She even carries a topical fatty acid supplement at her clinic that she swears by for dogs like Labs that get localized dander etc.

[anonymous]

I have a dog with environmental allergies, the only thing that helped was going to a board certified veterinary dermatologist. I wasted a year going back and forth to the regular vet.
She has been stable for over 4 years and we see the dermatologist once a year. Initial testing can be expensive but maintenance isn’t that bad.
See my posts per the search engine here: /forums/search/allergies/

PS: I bathe my dog about twice a week with Malaseb this is just part of her treatment as prescribed by the dermatologist. Alone it won’t do much, but in conjunction with allergen specific immunotherapy, it is helpful.
I also give a daily fish oil capsule, not sure it actually does anything though. Most supplements are scams imo.

• This reply was modified 9 years, 5 months ago by anonymous.

[crazy4cats]

It sounds like the same Mary Straus to me. She is not a vet, but I do think she does share some valuable information on the dogaware site. She does not necessarily recommend digestive enzymes unless the dog has a digestive disorder of some kind. She states they generally can produce enough on their own.

This is taken from http://www.dogaware.com:

Digestive Enzymes

Digestive enzyme supplements provide a variety of benefits

Article by Mary Straus, published in the Whole Dog Journal, May 2012

All dogs need digestive enzymes in order to break down their food, making the nutrients available for absorption. In most cases, the pancreas produces ample enzymes and no supplementation is required. Older dogs and dogs with digestive disorders may benefit from enzyme supplementation. Dogs with exocrine pancreatic insufficiency (EPI), where the pancreas is no longer able to produce enzymes, require prescription-strength enzymes in order to survive. Digestive enzymes might also help dogs with food allergies and intolerances.

She continues with more information about her opinion of digestive enzymes if anyone is interested in reading more.

I don’t think she has any formal training, but a lot of experience. Here is more about her:

http://dogaware.com/about.html

[Inah A]

I just had my dog take a blood test and when it came the creatinine level is slightly higher. The maximum for normal is .80 and he has .83. Besides the creatinine the hematocrit is also low (beacuse of the creatinine). Currently he is on antibiotics plus nefrotec for kidney supplement and polynerv and is on a table food diet. What can you recommend like a list of natural food i can buy so i can cook for him in the current situation?

Thank you so much for helping I highly appreciate it.

[crazy4cats]

First, of course, I’m going to ask if you have seen a vet and had a fecal test done. Here is a link with some diarrhea remedies that has been helpful to me assuming that it is not due to worms, parasites or coccidia.

http://www.dogaware.com/health/digestive.html

I’ve used some of the supplements that are recommended on this site. Many of them contain slippery elm.

Good luck!

[Jenn H]

Not all kibble is created equal. That’s one reason why you should switch brands every few months.
Feeding kibble isn’t always about convenience. Sometimes it’s a food that agrees with a particular dog. Sometimes it’s the affordable option.

You can always add supplements if your pet is lacking something until you find a food that agrees with them and provides all the nutrients.

[anonymous]

Kidney damage cannot be reversed. Daily sub q fluids will act like dialysis, prescription food will help. Listen to your vet, there are no miracle cures, most supplements are scams.
Ask your vet if pain meds and anti-nausea meds would help keep her comfortable?

[anonymous]

By IV treatments I assume you mean sub q fluids. I went through this with a dog that had kidney damage due to Lyme disease that was not diagnosed in time.
Anyway, I gave her sub q fluids once a day, and it helped as it is similar to dialysis.
Kidney damage can’t be reversed. She lasted a couple of years this way, some good days, some bad days. Prescription food helped, but most supplements are a scam in my opinion.
Listen to your vet, beware of homeopathic vets, there are no miracle cures. Pain meds prescribed by the vet were helpful.
Some science based information here: http://skeptvet.com/Blog/category/herbs-and-supplements/

[Emily S]

A month-and-a-half ago, I acquired my 12 year old Lab from my parents, he’s been mostly seditary for the last 1+ years, and was struggling with arthritus when I got him. He could barely walk a few block.

I’ve added Glucosamine/chondroitin/MSM supplement to his diet, along with increasing the length of his walks – to the point where he wanted to jog 2 days ago! He jogged about a quarter mile, and he doesn’t consider 1 mile to be a long enough walk 😉

He’s a very large dog, in his “prime” weighed 120lbs. He’s now down to a slim/healthy 90lbs. QUESTION: should I be feeding him Adult Dog food or Senior Dog food? Due to being seditary, he has lost the majority of the muscle mass in his hind legs – I’d like to see his strength increase. Currently feeding Fromm’s Senior Dog Food

[Daisy F]

Hello All,

On Monday, of this week 10/17/16, I received the call from the vet, after determining blood results, that my beloved mini schnauzer Lily (12.5 years old – and have had her since 3 months) is diagnosed with in the beginning stages of chronic kidney disease. She has the physical symptoms of excessive drinking, excessive urinating inside, and lost of weight (stable 16.5 lbs down to 12 lbs). Her appetite is still there; however; as the vet encourages me this is still a good sign for her.

I am not resorting to putting on diapers for her as, she is my baby, and has always been spoiled; and it makes me sad to have to resort to diapers in order to prevent urination on our wooden floors, but an easy 30 second clean-up I do not mind doing.

Anyway, here are her important blood results:

BUN 38 (normal range 7-25)
PHOS 7.0 (normal range 2.9-6.6)
CRE 1.7 (normal range 0.3-1.4)

Vet instructed to start providing her Hills k/d canned food diet, and as I looked on the reviews online; all are fantastic (low sodium, low phosphorus, low protein) diet, although vet said reducing her protein is not necessarily suggested at this point because her protein levels are fine. So I guess my question is what sorts of fresh homemade food am I able to still provide to her in combination of the Hills k/d diet? Keeping in mind her sodium levels and phosphorus levels need to be given in low amounts? What foods are these? Ive researched but become overwhelmed with the information given and then it feels like its contradicting to other materials and feel lost and confused and not as confident about providing the nutrition she needs; without going broke on my end. Money is not a huge issue for me; but with the prescribed canned diet; alone- it will be difficult to manage that on itself.

Lily also started taking prebiotic and probiotic supplements to aide. Any other supplements I should know about? I am taking her back to the vet today after work; since the vet also suggested starting her on fluid therapy to help keep her hydrated. She will be instructing me how to do it at home and Lily wouldn’t need it all the time; but would need to keep an eye on her.

She went in for her first IV treatment yesterday (as the first step towards her supportive care) and started her prescribed diet. Her personality is still all there; and I know she is getting much older; I would just appreciate anything descriptive resource/link that would help me in this difficult process and definitely a new lifestyle change for my babygirl.

I took the day of work yesterday, since I was still in tears finding out about her disease and how serious it could get so I was able to do my own research.

I have found this website http://www.dogaware.com/health/kidneymedical.html#acidosis to be helpful as well.

If you have any questions for me about her condition; I will certainly answer them; any information helps 🙂

Momma Daisy

[T]

Hi Laura!

It’s great that you’re trying to rule out major physical diseases through diagnostic testing. If nothing is found, I urge you to find a holistic vet who is interested in nutrition. This is an area that just isn’t covered well in most conventional vet practices.

I work with dogs with similar problems often. I find that once I talk to their owners/guardians at length, there are usually a host of other minor symptoms that have been overlooked. I personally love using homeopathy and nutrition/supplements to help dogs in situations like this.

I only work with people who are local to Phoenix, AZ, but you can look for a vet near you (or one who does phone consultations) at http://theavh.org or http://www.ahvma.org/find-a-holistic-veterinarian/

There are many articles about dog nutrition and holistic health care on my blog: http://naturalalternativesvet.com/blog You might find some of them helpful in your situation.

Tabitha (Dr. Thompson)

[Renee B]

You might check out http://www.pawtree.com/arkansaspets and do a quick pet profile. They offer great natural dog foods, treats, supplements based on your dogs needs. They may have what your looking for.

[Renee B]

Check out http://www.pawtree.com/arkansaspets for a personalized pet profile. You can change up their foods, add nutritional seasonings (pawpairings) and also consider supplements. All natural products made in Texas and created for specific concerns.

[Renee B]

You can do a pet profile and list your pet concerns and this site will tell you which food will benefit your pet the most. http://www.pawtree.com/arkansaspets
Along with natural foods they have some supplements that will treat certain things. Better pet diets can decrease health problems.

[anonymous]

With seniors I will feed 3-4 small meals per day instead of 1 or 2, and I add a tasty topper, maybe a bite of scrambled egg or chopped broiled chicken liver, chopped cooked lean meat or chicken….you get the idea. If he is not drinking enough water, add a splash to meals.
The only supplement I use for dogs is fish oil (1 capsule a day) not sure if it actually does anything.

[Laura M]

My breeder (Wirehaired Pointing Griffons) has an older male (12 yrs. old) that is slowly losing weight. He eats very well (quality kibble and canned food), his bodily functions are good, his attitude is happy and he wags and seems to love life. He has had every test known by several veterinarians and is going for an ultrasound today. Apart from the results of the ultrasound, everything is perfectly normal. I know that sometimes as pets get older they lose weight, just as some of us people do. He doesn’t look emaciated but when you feel him he is quite thin and never was before this started happening about a year or so ago I think. Is there any food or supplement that might be recommended to help with this older dog syndrome? You all have such great recommendations to so many problems so I thought I would post this on my breeder’s behalf. Any advice is much appreciated. Thanks!

[Shannon W]

Hi Shawna,
First of all, I am so so so sorry to hear about your journey with Audrey’s health issues, my heart breaks for both of you 🙁
Secondly, this is a whole new experience for me but having just returned from the vet I am of course looking for related information. My 16.5 year old terrier Brownie (I know we are so lucky to have had her this long <3 ) stopped eating and was diagnosed with renal failure. She spent 4 days on fluids, antibiotics etc. and is home with aluminum hydroxide, antibiotics, an antacid (?) and phenobarb for seizures as well as subcutaneous fluids for the remainder of her time I suspect. That is ok, I would do anything for her…

I am just beginning the research on Kidney failure and have read many of your posts so far but not all of them. In one of them you recommend the SP Canine Renal Support. I have looked at that as well as the SP Renafood tabs which people also recommend. I was wondering why you chose the Canine support as opposed to the Renafood if you don’t mind? The only other question I will bother you with now ( don’t want to wear out my welcome here 😉 is if you have had any experience using Rehmannia 8 which many holistic vets recommend… Right now we are getting through one day at a time but I would like to start her on supplements asap while I figure out her diet and other vitamins/mineral needs etc. In the next few weeks (cross your fingers and toes please) I will get her to a holistic vet in an attempt to get her on “a plan” that will be more beneficial for her. Thank you SO much for your response and know that you came here through a nightmare but you are making such a difference for the rest of us and our beloved fur babies.

[HoundMusic]

I’ve been seriously considering giving the Bright Mind a try for a dog who started having massive, uncontrollable grand mal seizures @ 9yrs old. He’s now 11 and has a notable degree of brain damage, but doing better on a home cooked diet (as opposed to raw), even without supplements, so it’s obvious diet does have an impact on cognitive health.

I don’t have a single issue with feeding any of Purina’s higher grade foods – in fact, when I was actively breeding, Purina ONE and Puppy/Dog Chow gave me outstanding results. These were hunting dogs that quickly fell apart on a feed that was even slightly lacking, and quite honestly, there’s a reason most show & field breeders don’t touch the holistic, “boutique” type foods, and it’s NOT the price. When your entire kennel is going to pot, you’re desperate enough to pay anything.

However, I haven’t fed anything Purina in close to 8yrs, since they changed their formulas back in ’08. I did just pick up a back of the Purina ONE Mature Adult tonight, since this weekend was too busy to do a raw food shopping, and the ingredients look very similar to Bright Mind. I’ll update if I stick with it and notice any differences…

[anonymous]

How long have you had him? He may be grieving his former owner and home, maybe there were other dogs there that he bonded with. It is very hard for some dogs, especially a senior.
The first month will be the worst. Just be extra nice to him but give him his space, hopefully he’ll come around.

You can presoak the kibble in water overnight in the fridg and then add a little plain homemade chicken broth (no onions) or mix with a soft topper. If you don’t see him drinking water, add a little to his food, senior small breeds are vulnerable to get bladder stones, struvite and urinary tract infections if they don’t drink enough water. Take him out frequently to urinate.

Keep his diet simple, maybe a limited ingredient food, I like Nutrisca. I wouldn’t add vegetables for now, they can cause loose stools in some dogs. I wouldn’t add any supplements unless advised to do so by a veterinarian that has examined him.

[crazy4cats]

I hope he does well with the Pure Vita. Pumpkin never really worked that great for my pups. Surprisingly, unsweetened applesauce was better. I think because it contains pectin. Check out http://www.dogaware.com. It has a lot of helpful info on digestive disorders in dogs. I would try to add just one new thing at a time so you know what is helping and what isn’t.

My dogs had both giardia and coccidia when they were young and it took some time to get them back on track when we finally got rid of all their bugs. You could at least rule them out with a fecal so you won’t be switching up food and supplements for no reason like I did for a long time. Please report back on your progress!

[S G]

I bought the Pure Vita Turkey kibble and am going to try mixing it with the organic natural planet canned turkey to see if that helps firm up his stool. I also bought slippery elm supplement as it’s the main ingredient in Perfect Form that you recommended too. I really don’t think he has worms, parasites but will take him in and ask the rescue if they can over the bill IF this new diet/supplements don’t work. I’m going to also continue adding pumpkin for a while into his food and probiotics since i still have both but need to eventually simply his diet to exclude supplements, i don’t mind mixing kibble with canned if that’s what he needs to have firm stools. Thank you ALL for recommending HIGH QUALITY fiber foods. It just goes to show not all dogs are the same, where one dog could only tolerate RAW(my shitzu) and this rescue seems to need some kibble. I’m really against most kibbles, as most have LOW QUALITY ingredients and grains/carbs, but there are so many NEW HIGH quality ones on the market nowadays, it may be the way of the future for keeping a rescue dog healthy. I’ll let you all know if this works.

[crazy4cats]

Hi SG-
Congratulations on your new addition. My pups had a rough start too. And still are a little sensitive and get diarrhea now and then. Pure Vita’s Turkey recipe by NutriSource is a kibble they have done really well on. It has 6% fiber. It’s too expensive to feed regularly, but I watch for specials and sales. Also Perfect Form by The Honest Kitchen is a supplement that has been helpful as well. They just finished a bag of Whole Earth Farms Turkey and Duck which they did great on also.

Make sure you do a fecal test with vet if there hasn’t been one done yet. It could be due to worms, parasites, coccidia, etc. Good luck!

[zcRiley]

Zignature Limited Ingredient Formula Dry Dog Food (Turkey, lamb, or duck)

Key Benefits:
Grain-free and limited ingredient formula
Gluten-free diet
No potato, chicken or eggs (hard to find!)
Complete and balanced diet for all life stages
Made in the USA

ADD ONE PER DAY for joint health:
Nutramax Dasuquin with MSM Soft Chews Joint Health Large Dog Supplement

Go to the vet for a thorough assessment of which type of arthritis he has and make sure there are no other ailments. Blood work and fecal testing, too. Keep him warm and dry, and controlled exercise is key, get him moving on fun walks. You can turn this around, good luck!

[crazy4cats]

Hi Sara B-
I’m sorry you are having trouble getting your pup to eat. I cannot relate as I have two lab mix dogs who eat anything and everything. I mostly feed them kibble meals with different toppers such as canned food, eggs, tripe and various fresh foods. But, I also try to feed one home cooked meal every now and then. I formulated a recipe on: https://secure.balanceit.com/. It is a site where you can choose what protein, fat and carbs that you want to use. Also, can choose what percentage of the meal you want to be protein and so forth.

They sell supplements to balance the meals. The recipes are free unless your dog has a health condition and then you may need to pay for vet assistance. Good luck. I hope you can get her eating.

[Bullwrinkle]

Frani V.,

Hello, all. I finally registered but have sought all your great for a long time. As for Frani V’s question on Atopica, I can only tell you my personal experience and what I know of others I’ve spoken with and what I learned from my vet, that also applies to APOQUEL (I will note the similarities, and try to locate the link which I do have).

Atopica was suggested by by vet #1 to my English Bulldog. She had severe allergies, food and environmental, among other medical issues. My precious special needs baby girl. She was a spayed at 6 mos, so this was some time after. It was suggested that we start out 7x/week administering Atopica. The idea was to get it built up in her system then back off to 2 or 3x/week max as is recommended. She was ~47 lbs, she was prescribed the 100mg Atopica. Checking in every 2 weeks, since I was paying $170 a pop, I was told to keep it up for a few months. Forget that. I started to skip one day a week, then 2 days a week. Of course she had flares so idiot vet said back to everyday. I was still dealing with her other maladies during this time, plus 5 aging cats with their issues ranging from failing kidneys, asthma, hypertrophic cardiomyothapy, a tortoise with a collapsing pyramid shell, the usual, so time escaped me too quickly. I ended up finding a good vet because of a botched knee surgery from idiot’s referral. Blessing in disguise.

My baby started having seizures. It was sounds or over excited that set it off. I realized she had been on Atopica at 100mg every single day for a solid year. Seizures tend to be more prevalent in smaller dogs but they do happen and were documented. It has happened to all kinds of dogs. But, it has worked for many others as well although, I was not privy to those dogs histories. This was some, maybe 7 yrs ago now, at least. I pulled her off everything except for any allergy pills and only when she needed them. She had 4 seizures, when I stopped all meds and supplements, no more seizures. After a few weeks, I added her fish oil and joint supplement back one at a time and a month apart. No seizure. Atopica was the seizure producer. I lit up the idiot about it, told her she really needs to more careful or at least more informed. Told I would do the same as I was leaving her practice.

The good vet, as he described Atopica to me, and is similar to what I’ve found and read about Apoquel. It shuts off immune receptors. And when you have an immune compromised dog, or cat, to begin with the last thing you want to do is shut off receptors because you don’t know what else is being shut off or being compromised. Immunosuppressive have their place, don’t get me wrong, and I relied on the occasional 5mg prednisone in lieu of giving my girl a fistful of benadryl that would only work for a few hours when she was really bad. But only after I’d tried everything else. Pred was a last resort. So do I believe in their use? Yes. But ever so carefully and not on a regular basis like Atopica and Apoquel.

I can’t get the link to hyperlink but this has some interesting info. http://vitalanimal.com/apoquel-dog-1/

Sorry this was such a long post, but I get anxious when I see questions about Atopica. I had to let my baby go, it’ll be 2 yrs in Dec. She was only 8yrs 4mos. She taught me so much, she endured too much, her kidneys took it in the end. I became quite educated but even our own dogs are so different from each other. I still feel I didn’t learn fast enough for her. Please, please do your research thoroughly on Atopica and Apoquel. Apoquel is still relatively new. You know your pet best!

[Christin K]

Reading this post, and all the responses has been a real eye opener for me. After taking Daphne, my Bichon Poodle mix to the vet twice in the past month to the tune of $400, and being told the next option is expensive tests, I figured I needed to look at ways to nip this thing in the bud as opposed to chasing it after it starts.

My vet “prescribed” Science Diet I/D. My personal opinion is that Science Diet is horrid. From my understanding by friends who have worked in the veterinary setting, vets get kick backs for “prescribing” Science Diet. The ingredient list is horrid. Pork liver? Whole grain corn? Seriously? 14% fat content? For a dog with colitis? Ridiculous!

I did a little bit of research on the internet for dogs with sensitive stomachs. Daphne’s episodes always start with throwing up. Then comes the profuse bloody diarrhea. I am beginning to wonder if the two correlate; she gets an upset stomach, stops eating, which brings on the inflamed intestine. I could be completely wrong, but she seemed like she was starting into another episode this morning by throwing up. I gave her a Tums with her food. She really didn’t want to eat her food, but she gave it a good college try.

I’m trying Wellness Simple dog food, which is fish and potato based, and has limited ingredients. I have come to the conclusion that kibbles seem to bring on the colitis, so I’m sticking with wet for for the time being. So far, so good. I’m also using a probiotic which I received from the vet. However, I think I’m going to switch to a goat’s milk formula which has a probiotic.

I personally think that one size does not fit all dogs. First of all, colitis can be caused by just about anything. My vet thinks that Daphne’s first bout was brought on by the stress of Tropical Storm Hermine. It’s a distinct possibility since Daphne was extremely adverse to going potty outside, and only did with much prodding. Why the second bout came on is anyone’s guess. We had a thunderstorm the night before, but this is Florida. We have thunderstorms all the time. Stool samples showed an elevated amount of bacteria in her intestine. I’ve been wondering if she’s been sneaking into the cat’s litter box for a treat. Maybe it is something more serious like Crohn’s. For now, I’m trying the diet change, and have actually considered cooking her food (fish and sweet potato) if it comes down to it. I’m also going to purchase an herbal supplement to help her with the storm anxiety, especially since we have Hurricane Matthew bearing down on Florida at the moment.

I read about using chamomile tea to settle the stomach and intestines. I might try that route as well.

• This reply was modified 9 years, 6 months ago by Christin K.

[pitlove]

Hi Darlene-

You may want to go over to the review side of this site and look at the Bright Mind review. There was a very interesting debate about this exact question. What was determined was that the levels of MCT’s in Bright Mind could in fact NOT be achieved through supplementation. I know quite a few people with dogs on Bright Mind and all have said it’s been working great to help their older dogs cognitive function. Definitely worth a shot!

[pitlove]

That’s a great idea Hound Music. The calcium supplement could actually be the answer to the issue.

Is this a vet you’ve been seeing for a long time? If not or there is not much invested there maybe call around and switch to one that has a lot of experience with your breed.

[HoundMusic]

Ok! I understand now. Unfortunetly I believe that Ca and Phos go hand in hand. If the Ca is low the Phos will also be low. I do not believe (but could be wrong) that you can still achieve low Phos levels with calcium appropriate for a small/medium breeds needs for growth. Really sounds like a frustrating problem indeed! What does your vet think?

No, you’re absolutely right – calcium & phosphorous tag along together, and while phos is always lower, if a food has high levels of calcium, it usually has elevated phos, as well. Moderate protein ones will naturally have lower phosphorous, though, so I was hoping to find something along those lines that would have less than the usual puppy formulations. Even talking about it makes me frustrated.

My Vet is absolutely useless. IVDD is epidemic in my breed, even worse in this bloodline, and by now I can recognize its symptoms just by picking a three month old puppy up beneath the front legs. Vet is brushing the hitching off as pano (probably thinks I’m hallucinating), but he’s not the one who’s had Beagles for over 22yrs. For now, I’ve decided to start him on a calcium supplement until I’ve switched foods, and see if that helps…

[aimee]

I just thought I’d comment since The Honest Kitchen ( THK) foods have been discussed in regards to LBP’s with the concerns referenced back to me.

The concern I have with THK is that not all of the nutrient profiles they have published currently meet AAFCO.

Here are a few examples:

“Love” is marketed as an all life stages food: ~4825 kcals/kg
THK reports Love’s Ca content as 1.19% DM Using the AAFCO min 1%DM and that any diet over 4000kcals/kg must be corrected for energy density the min calcium should be 1.37% The correction factor is 4825/3500 X 1% = 1.37 %

So here we see a diet below AAFCO min for Calcium. Using the newer AAFCO min of 1.2% DM and energy density of 4000kcals/kg. It is clear that even before using the necessary correction factor the diet will be below AAFCO The correction factor in the new guidelines 4825/4000 x 1.2% = 1.44%

“Thrive” is another all life stages food ~4859kcals/kg

THK reports Ca as 1.34%. Min Ca to meet AAFCO profiles :4859/3500 x 1 = 1.38% or 4859/4000 x 1.2 = 1.45%. Either way a smidge below AAFCO.

Looking at another nutrient from Thrive: THK reports Vit E as 54.11 IU
AAFCO min 4859/3500 X 50 = 69.4IU or 4859/4000 X 50 = 60.7 IU.. either way the diet falls short.

THK used to report the Vit E content in Keen as 23.45IU; clearly below AFFCO min of 50 IU. I contacted them via chat and they confirmed that was the correct and most current value. Then I asked why it was below AAFCO…and then they gave me a new number- 56.24 which is now on their website. Presto Chango!

They report 4524.6kcals/kg 4524.6/4000 X 50 = 56.56IU or 4524.6/3500 X 50 = 64.67IU. Either way their new number falls a bit short too.

It also concerns me that they do “Presto Chango” the nutrient information on their site when I inquire about a concern. That wasn’t the first time THK has immediately changed a nutrient level in their tables after I contacted them.

I like the concept of the food and I think it would be OK to use for intermittent or supplemental feeding but personally I wouldn’t raise a pup on any of their diets.