[pugmomsandy]

If you could feed her mostly canned food or canned/kibble combo at her age that would be great. They are less processed than extruded kibble and are high in moisture (of course) which is a good thing for all dogs any age. Be sure to get a product that is ‘complete and balanced’ versus ‘for intermittent or supplemental feeding only’ to be sure she is getting vitamins/minerals. A green/superfood supplement is beneficial as well. I’ve used Dr. Harvey’s supplements or similar. My 14 yr old is eating 1/2 cup of kibble with 1 cup of wet food/home made food with supplements (probiotics, green supplement, joint supp) or just wet food. Some sort of fiber of your choice (I use psyllium) will help bulk up her stools. She can have 1 teaspoon of psyllium. Or you can use canned pumpkin or even chia seed for fiber.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Well I’m going to have to disagree with whoever is saying she doesn’t need calcium. It’s not about if she’s getting any calcium or how much she’s getting even – it’s about the calcium being in balance with the phosphorus. Organ meat is extremely high in phosphorus and contains virtually no calcium. Muscle meat is high in phosphorus and contains virtually no calcium. Bone contains a little phosphorus but is very high in calcium (~2:1 ratio). Dogs must have their diet provide calcium and phosphorus in between a 1:1 and 2:1 ratio (with about 1.2:1 being ideal). The grinds from Hare Today are whole prey so the calcium to phosphorus ratio is in balance – if you add more boneless to that you risk throwing off the ratio. You could probably be safe adding up to 20% of the meal boneless but not feeding 6 oz. boneless and 1 oz. bone in. To do the math – the grinds from Hare Today are approximately 80% muscle meat, 10% organ, 10% bone. 6 oz. of boneless meats + 1 oz. bone-in grind would result in a total of 6.9 oz. boneless meat/organs and only 0.10 oz. bone. This equates to a diet that is only 1.5% bone – a raw diet should be 10% bone. Balancing the C:P ratio is raw feeding 101 and the most important step – I can’t help but question the knowledge of someone advising you to feed predominantly muscle meat and not supplement with calcium.

[Hound Dog Mom]

I agree with Patty – you need some source of fiber. Whether it’s fur, feathers, bone, vegetables or a fiber supplement (like psyllium). And if you’re only feeding boneless make sure you’re supplementing with calcium (800 – 1,000 mg. per lb. of meat). If you’re already feeding fish oil there’s no reason you can’t give the olive oil in addition to that if it’s helping. Olive oil won’t supply the EFA’s a dog needs (why they need fish or fish oil) but it won’t hurt anything and if it’s helping her poop I’d keep doing it. I do agree with Tracy that it may just be normal for Gemma to only poop every other day. I can say that I’ve never had a dog that only pooped every other day and I don’t know of any other dogs like that – but if her stools look normal and she doesn’t seem constipated I wouldn’t worry too much about it.

[InkedMarie]

hi HDM,
Thanks for answering. She was eating mostly boneLESS and still sometimes not pooping unless I gave her olive oil so it appears the amount of boneless doesnt seem to matter much with her. As far as her stools, she hasn’t been a great pooper since we got her, it would take her a few minutes to get it out. Then, 2 or 3 weeks, I think, after we got her is when she ended up stopped up and had to have an enema at the vets. So, I honestly dont know how she has pooped. She was on kibble before we got her.
Before I posted here, I emailed Tracy at Hare Today. I thought she was home from vacation but wasn’t sure which is why I posted here too. This is her response:

“You are feeding 7 ounces a day right now. Is the dog maintaining weight at this? I had said to start at 6.72 ounces so you are a bit over the amount per day I would start with. Do you have a scale and weighing out portions?

Get sardine/anchovy oil or salmon oil which is fish based and use that as a daily supplement not olive oil. Olive oil is not species appropriate for a carnivore.

Try to do 4 meals of all boneless and by all means start feeding the tripe as a stand alone meal, as tripe has a lot of amino acids in it. Do every 5th or 6th meal with the meat/bone/organ grind and once a week add a tablespoon or so of the organ blend and see what happens. As I said you may need to keep tweaking this for her and see what works best. Again some dogs don’t poop every day which can be normal. I personally would not worry about it as long as she is having a BM every other day or every 3rd day.
Another thing you can do is feed a meal of a raw egg. Raw egg will also help loosen stools. Too much can cause diarrhea though so start slowly.”

My response to her is that yes, I apparently have been overfeeding a bit. I do have a scale, she already gets salmon oil. She gets a whole egg once or twice a week, the diarrhea hasn’t happened on those days but I’ll do half an egg. I told her if she poops every other day, I will have to live with that but NOT if it’s diarrhea. I have tripe and ground organs thawing now. I am going to put a tablespoon of tripe into the dogs ice cube trays and freeze them. I do that with the herring.
Comments on what Tracy said? Will check out the GI Detox

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi Marie –

Sorry to hear you’re having these problems. I’ve never had an issue like this with any of my dogs, however I can tell you that if you’re feeding 6 oz. boneless per day and 1 oz. of bone-in that she’s
not getting enough bone and the calcium to phosphorus ratio is off. In a prey model raw diet bone (along with fur/feathers) acts as fiber – so while excessive amounts of bone can cause constipation, so can excessive amounts of muscle meat without an adequate fiber source. Possibly a GI detox or colon cleanse might help. Wysong used to sell a great supplement called Colex (definitely would have gotten her moving), but I’m checking their site now and unfortunately it appears they aren’t selling it anymore. Swanson has a GI Detox powder that looks okay/safe for dogs. It doesn’t look as good as Colex did but it might work – I haven’t used it. They have several other colon cleansers but some I’m not sure if all the ingredients are safe for dogs. I know he colex was safe for dogs and the Swanson GI Detox looks safe. Were her stools regular before she was on raw?

[Cyndi]

Thanks again, everyone, for all the info. I’m starting to get overwhelmed again though, lol! It doesn’t take much. I posted a question a few posts back and from what I’ve read, no one seemed to give me a definitive answer on that particular question. I’ll post that part again…. (only because I want to be absolutely sure on what I’m feeding and don’t want to start off wrong…

So, if I kept Bailey on the Deli Fresh, which I feed her in the evenings and she gets 1/2lb. of that, and I started her off with say a chicken back for the first week or so is that ok? I do prefer to feed twice a day and if she will only need like 1-1 1/2lbs of food per day do I need to add anything else? The Deli Fresh is the Chicken, vegetable & rice flavor and I know there is alot of other ingredients and vitamins and stuff in that. Maybe, I’ll switch to the Turkey flavor, if I’m starting her raw diet with chicken…

I’ll also post the ingredients of the Deli fresh/Freshpet that I plan on keeping her on, for a while anyways.

Ingredients:
Chicken, Eggs, Chicken Liver, Chicken Broth, Carrots, Brown Rice, Peas, Rice Bran, Dried Kelp, Carrageenan, Natural Flavors, Salt, Inulin, Flaxseed Oil, Green Tea Extract.

Vitamins:
Choline Chloride, Vitamin E Supplement, Niacin, Biotin, Riboflavin Supplement, Manganous Oxide, Thiamine Mononitrate, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Folic Acid.

Minerals:
Calcium Carbonate, Zinc Proteinate, Iron Proteinate, Ferrous Sulfate, Zinc Oxide, Copper Proteinate, Copper Sulfate, Niacin, Manganese Proteinate, Calcium Pantothenate, Manganous Oxide, Thiamine Mononitrate, Calcium Iodate, Sodium Selenite.

If I start her on chicken and use a chicken leg quarter or chicken back every day, is that too much bone? I think I may just be over thinking all this, and I apologize for all the questions, but I want to be sure, especially with keeping her on the Freshpet for one meal a day for a while…

Thanks again for all your help everyone! I sincerely do appreciate all your help. I’ve been printing out all your replies and referring back to it all.

[soho]

I would like to share my experience with see spot live longer dinner mixes.

I ordered 135 of the single serving packets on 6-5-2012. I wanted them for my own dogs and for my friends to sell at their dog wash. The packets are VERY hard to open. There is no notch in the packet so you have to cut it open. The powder inside falls out when you cut them open and it is very messy. My friends tried everything possible to sell them but people just did not want to deal with the badly designed packets and the high price. They were offered at buy one get one half off and when they still did not sell they were offered at cost.

I wanted to try this supplement but it was a pain to use so I went with other supplements for my own dogs. I contacted Steve Brown on April 6th 2013 to see if he would swap any of the old packets for the newly redesigned 1 pound bags which are over 50% cheaper per serving. Steve Brown never even bothered to respond to my email. I had to email him twice before I finally received a reply from Chris Gelalich the general manager.

Mr Gelalich offered me one bag at no cost and said I waited too long to let them know there was a problem and that the packets were now expired. I checked and the packets were made in February of 2012. So they were already 4 months old when I received them. I find this pretty strange after Steve told me:

“Our website reviews some of the major features of See Spot Live Longer™ Homemade Dinner Mixes : fresh, lean, complete and balanced ancestral-type meals for dogs. The freshness is especially important, most commercial raw diets are not fresh, and many may exceed USDA standards for “quality:” ground meat is only considered to be quality if it’s consumed less than 3 months since manufacturing.”

Today I sent my final email to Steve as it is more than 2 weeks since I first emailed him and I have sent 3 emails to him in the last week with no reply.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi Cyndi –

Please don’t blame yourself for the death of your previous dog. We’ve all been there and made poor nutritional choices for our animals. If you didn’t know better than it wasn’t your fault. My current dogs eat a homemade raw diet – I used to feed Beneful, Dad’s, Alpo, etc. It’s a learning experience!

I completely understand your apprehension about beginning a raw diet. I was the same way when I started. I was so concerned about percentages and how many ounces of this and how many ounces of that and worried that they were missing something or getting too much of something else. You’ll get comfortable with it, trust me. I personally started with “semi-homemade” – I’d use pre-mixes to which all I had to add was meat or buy meat/organ/bone grinds to which all I had to add was veggies and supplements. I bought Steve Brown’s book “Unlocking the Canine Ancestral Diet” and finally got the confidence to try one of his recipes and make my first meal completely from scratch. I now formulate my dogs’ menus all on my own and they’re complete and balanced. Just start slow!

[Hound Dog Mom]

I agree with Sandy and Patty – I’d drop the lamb and mutton. While lamb is leaner than mutton, it’s typically still pretty high in fat. Bison or rabbit would be a good lean substitute. Sometimes MPC has “Bison Supermix” which is tripe and organs – my dogs love it.

As far as what to add, as long as the grinds contain meat/organ/bone I’d just suggest adding cod liver oil or tinned sardines a few days per week (omega 3’s and vitamin d), vitamin e, cooked/pureed vegetables and a whole food supplement (kelp, alfalfa, etc. – you can mix your own or buy a pre-mixed supplement). You can also add things like nuts, seeds, dairy, eggs, etc. a few days a week for some variety and added nutrients.

[NectarMom]

I am going to order from My Pet Carnivore but I am wondering if I need to add any supplements to this meat orders? I want to feed all natural and lower fat and so they recommended Young beef chunks and so I added a few others to my order since these meats looked a bit lower in fat also. Does my shopping cart look ok for my Pancreatitis girl? Do I need to delete or add anything else from this company?? I need to order today so it will ship out Monday.

I am sorry for constant asking questions but I am such a newbie to feeding raw. Thank you very much 🙂

Info: The product was added to your cart.

Cart
YOUNG BEEF CHUNKS-5 LB.
010052 $11.45 $11.45
Ground Whole Mutton-2 LB.
010039 $7.50 $7.50
5 LB. Ground Chicken SUPERMIX
CGSM5 $10.75 $10.75
Ground Beef Trachea & Gullet-2 LB.
BGTG-2 $3.98 $3.98
Ground Lamb Supreme-2 LB.
LMSP-2 $7.75 $7.75
Subtotal: $41.43

——————————————————————————–

Total: $41.43

——————————————————————————–

If you have a coupon code, please enter it below:

Continue Shopping Checkout

[BlueDog]

Yay Cyndi! I have also recently (as in yesterday) started researching a raw food diet for my 50lb ACD. I found a page (and forgot to bookmark) that helped me decide that with his weight range, I should give him about 1000 Cal/day, or about 1.25lb each day of food, including boneless meat and raw meaty bones. HDM’s suggestions are great, and I went today all around town to local butchers, grocery stores, and even a vet that has knowledge and that supports raw food diets. I made a list of what each place had to offer based on who had better prices on things, especially harder to find things like beef hearts and turkey necks. Ended up buying 3 fryer chickens that were on sale for $0.77 a lb, and some other stuff on sale. My plan is to establish my budget that I can devote to this, price everything up, and start saving. And also to buy meat when I see it for a great price. We are lucky in my area to have access to a local butcher, several grocery stores (HEB has had the best selection of doggy type meats for decent prices) and also a natural/organic food store that has a ton of the great supplements that I have seen mentioned. Check the “Transitioning to raw” thread on this section of the forum, it has a lot of great info and I think a sample recipe from HDM. There’s also a thread “Suggested raw dog food menus” that has several recipes that HDM and others have posted.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi Ken –

I’m so sorry to hear about your dog!

You’re going to want to get him on a high protein, low carbohydrate diet – a fresh, natural diet is ideal. Glucose (found in carbohydrates) acts as food for tumors – so the more carbohydrates in the diet, the more fuel there is for the tumor to grow. High levels of high quality (animal based) protein should be included in each meal. The tumor competes with the dog’s body for amino acids – so higher levels of complete proteins will help to ensure the dog’s body receives adequate levels of amino acids.

Some supplements that may be beneficial for certain types of cancer:
-Turmeric
-Bromelain
-Medicinal Mushrooms
-Amino Acid Supplements (particularly arginine and glutamine)
-Omega 3’s

These website have some great information:

dogaware.com/health/cancer.html

k9medicinals.com/dog-cancer-diet

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi Cyndi –

It’s wonderful that you’re considering a raw diet for your dog!

Owning three large and active dogs, I can sympathize with you on wanting to keep things cheap. My tips for keeping raw feeding budget friendly would be:

1. Rely on chicken, turkey, pork and beef as your primary protein sources – they’re the cheapest per pound.

2. Rather than feeding boneless meat and supplementing with calcium, incorporate raw meaty bones (chicken necks, turkey necks, etc.) as the calcium source. RMB’s are much cheaper per pound than boneless meat.

3. Rely on hearts and gizzards as your primary source of muscle meat in the diet. While boneless skinless chicken breast might be more appealing to a person, there’s no reason dogs need to eat these expensive cuts of meat.

4. Add things like eggs, cottage cheese, yogurt or kefir to stretch the meal a bit with some cheap but high quality animal-based protein.

5. Avoid pre-ground meats, they’re generally more expensive. Feed meat in chunks or dice it yourself.

6. Buy bulk – try to locate a wholesale supplier. Shop the manager’s specials at the grocery store.

7. Use supplements made for humans rather than for dogs, believe it or not they’re generally much cheaper. I order from Swanson Vitamins (cheap, high quality, big variety).

[merrymenagerie]

We just adopted a five year old maltipoo who has had several litters of puppies. Her last litter was very recent and has taken a toll on her. Her fur is very thin and brittle and she has a hotspot. Has anyone had this issue? She’s on pedigree right now, but I want to switch her to grain free. I have some supplements as well, msm, flax oil and coconut oil.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi ksufan –

Pooping 3 – 4 times and day and not being able to hold it for more than a few hours is not normal for a dog that’s over a year old. I’d suggest just giving another 5 star food a try. If you could feed all canned food or raw food or substitute half her kibble for canned or raw that may help too as canned foods and raw foods typically contain less filler than kibble and are highly digestible. I’d also recommend getting her on a digestive enzyme supplement to ensure she’s digesting all her food as efficiently as possible.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi shelties mom –

I do believe that dogs should be fed a diet rich in joint maintaining compounds (glucosamine, chondroitin, MSM, etc.) for a lifetime in order to promote optimum joint health. A dog’s natural ancestral diet which is rich in bones, cartilage and sinew, would naturally contain high levels of these joint health promoting substances. For those feeding a raw diet that includes bones/cartilage, it generally isn’t necessary to supplement with joint supplements unless the dog has an orthopedic condition (i.e. hip dysplasia) or until the dog reaches its senior years. For dogs not eating a species-appropriate diet I feel it’s a good idea to supplement the diet with whole foods naturally rich in joint health compounds (think fresh or dried trachea chews, gullet, poultry feet, etc.) or give a low dose of a joint support supplement for maintenance (the dosage can be increased as the dog ages or begins to show symptoms of arthritis). Some whole food supplements beneficial for joint health would be sea cucumber, shark cartilage or green lipped mussel (generally come in capsules or powder). A standard glucosamine/chondroitin/MSM supplement will also suffice. If a dog is showing signs of pain or inflammation it can also be beneficial to combine a joint maintenance supplement with a natural anti-inflammatory such as boswellia, yucca, turmeric, bromelain, tart cherry, etc.

[shelties mom]

At what age should I start to give joint supplement? Any whole food or quality brands anyone can recommend?

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi dogmom2 –

I agree with Patty – I think it’s important to feed a variety of “superfoods.” While I’ve never used the Animal Essentials Green Alternative, I have used some of their Animals Apawthecary tinctures and I like the company and feel they make high quality products. I have posted a basic recipe for a superfood blend supplement I use – 1 part spirulina, 1 part kelp, 1 part wheat grass, 1 part alfalfa, 1 part bee pollen – however I do occasionally rotate in new ingredients for variety (chlorella, dulse, barley grass, etc.). The only thing I’d like to point out is that by purchasing a pre-made supplement your are paying way more than you need to. I purchase all organic ingredients from Swanson Vitamins in 1 lb. packages, mix them myself and my supplement comes up to around $11/lb. The Animal Essentials product you linked to is over $46/lb. You could save a lot of money by buying ingredients from a human supplement store and mixing your own supplement.

[theBCnut]

Adding in superfoods like spirulina also add micronutrients that may not be found in other foods. I always give some type of superfood supplement. I like to feed several different ones in addition to spirulina like kelp, alfalfa, wheat or barley grass, berries, mushrooms, spinach, kale, broccoli, etc. I make a homemade one and freeze it, or make one that HDM made a recipe for, or buy one like super green, ultragreen, or others. I rotate them just like I rotate almost everything else.

[dogmom2]

This is the spirulina supplement that my vet.

Animal Essentials Organic Green Alternative

Animal Essentials Herbal Green Alternative Antioxidant Powder for Dogs & Cats

Any thoughts?

Both my dogs are on Darwin’s, or we feed THK preference with an organic protein, or a balanced diet of rmb, meat and organ (usually kidney or liver). We also feed raw green tripe, and on occasion kibble with Merrick. ( we are switching from Evo red meat to trying our first bag of Brothers Complete Allergy. )
We also supplement with kefir, yogurt, cottage cheese, fresh eggs, sardines in olive oil.
We give pre and probiotic with enzymes daily, turmeric, glucosamine and fish oil also.

[dogmom2]

I use iFlora digestive formula (prebiotics, probiotics and enzymes) for the boys, in addition to plain kefir. We also feed raw green tripe. ( they had some for their breakfast this morning).
I really think the combination of these has helped tremendously to the over all health of both of the dogs.
We also supplement with turmeric, glucosamine and omega3 fish oil for joint health.

My vet recently suggested a spirulina powder for additional antioxidants, but we have not yet added that in.

I swear…I spend more time nd energy thinking about my dogs food than I do my own!
However, after seeing how well Hank did off the grains, I stopped eating them as well and now I am not having the horrible asthma issues I have been treating for 10 years. It has been 4 months since I stopped taking my singular and I have not had one issue. Amazing. I really wonder if there is something to the quality of the grains with the advent of GMO.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Has anyone used “Healthy Pet Products” brand raw food? I got a 5 lb. roll of the beef I was going to try out. Dr. Mike hasn’t reviewed it but it doesn’t look too bad and the price was reasonable for a pre-made beef-based food ($3.39/lb.).

Ingredients:
Certified Organic, Range-Fed and USDA Beef, Beef Hearts, Beef Lung, Beef Liver, Beef Kidney, Beef Tripe, Ground Beef Bone, Fresh Whole Eggs, Carrots, Celery, Sweet Potatoes, Garlic, Apples, Cranberries, Vegetable Fiber, Calcium, Dicalcium Phosphate, Choline Chloride, Zinc Sulfate, Vitamin E Supplement, Vitamin B-12 Supplement, Niacin, Iron Sulfate, Calcium Pantothenate, Vitamin A Acetate, Copper Sulfate, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Thiamine Mononitrate, Riboflavin, Folic Acid, Managanous Oxide, Calcium Iodate, Biotin, Vitamin D-3 Supplement, Sodium Selenite.

General Analysis:
51% protein and 25% fat (dry matter)

Not a huge fan of the inclusion of synthetic vitamins and minerals and the fat content is a bit lower than what I’d typically feed my crew but I figured it’d be worth a try and it’d be something different for the dogs (they don’t get commercial raw too often).

[Hound Dog Mom]

NectarMom – Green Tripe is about 48% protein and 46% fat on a dry matter basis. High fat and high protein.

Weimlove – I wrap pork necks in freezer wrap – I can’t think of exactly what it’s called but it’s like saran wrap but thicker and for the freezer. I wrap them individually. For turkey necks and chicken backs I get the big freezer bags and put three backs to a bag or 6 necks (enough for one dinner for three dogs). That way everything is easy to pull out of the freezer. Meat/extras/supplements together I’m currently spending about $300 – $350 a month – so roughly $100 per month per dog. I was able to cut my costs significantly after finding the wholesale supplier. I used to pretty much only feed Hare Today, My Pet Carnivore and meat from the grocery and I’d buy pre-mixed supplements which got ridiculously expensive (before I got my new pup I was spending more on feeding only two dogs than I’m now spending on feeding three dogs!). It’s so much cheaper to buy in bulk and make everything from scratch (including supplements).

[crazy4cats]

Thank you for your reply. That is what I was hoping to hear. I do purchase probiotics and enzymes fairly regularly. My family has been supportive of my new dog food obsession. Lol! It’s funny with our previous dog, we pretty much fed the same kibble forever. We had a big gulp cup from 7-11 in it. And just filled his bowl twice a day. Now I have two bags of kibble, kept in original bags, inside tubs with lids. I have directions above tubs hanging on walls, with details on exactly how much to feed each dog at each feeding with the measuring cups I have in the bags. Just in case I’m not home and my husband or one of my kids is here to feed them. Again, thank you and I won’t worry about using the Kirkland cuts and gravy for too long as long as we are rotating kibble and using digestive supplements occasionally.

[Mom2Cavs]

I’ve been using a new digestive supplement for mine from Herbsmith and I’m liking it alot! It’s called Microflora Plus. It comes in a capsule and contains pre/prob/enzymes along with some herbs that help with digestion like cinnamon, ginger and licorice. I just open a capsule and divide it among all 3 at each meal. It seems to be helping everyone, especially Laverne (who is my allergy prone dog).

[Anonymous]

Thanks for the recommendation Mindy, I recently sort of inherited a dog. The poor thing itched until her skin was raw, I first believed it was nerves, however the condition continued. I visited VitaHound and decided to use their dog supplement. I have only been adding it to her food for the past 10 but it is providing relief. I truly think this stuff is going to continue to work. I will report back and pay it forward for the helpful advice.

[Anonymous]

Thanks for the recommendation Mindy, I recently sort of inherited a dog. The poor thing itched until her skin was raw, I first believed it was nerves, however the condition continued. I visited VitaHound.com and decided to use their dog supplement. I have only been adding it to her food for the past 10 but it is providing relief. I truly think this stuff is going to continue to work. I will report back and pay it forward for the helpful advice.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Do you supplement with digestive enzymes? Enzyme supplements that include pancreatin, in some cases, is believed to help reduce the risk of acute pancreatitis or control chronic pancreatitis. Pancreatin is comprised of the amylase, lipase and protease produced by the pancreas. The idea is that adding supplemental pancreatin to the diet of a pancreatitis prone dog will lessen the stress on the dog’s pancreas. Another option would be a pancreas glandular – most glandulars are derived from bovine sources so I’m not sure if that would trigger a sensitivity (I know you’re trying to stick to turkey for the time being). Just some things to consider.

[NectarMom]

Yes HDM Darwin’s did tell me that the fat levels were lower after we talked about my dogs Pancreatits issue. I am going to check out Steve Browns supplement and decide where to go from there.

Shelties Mom I give Mercola digestive enzymes at every meal and also probiotics and spirugreen superfood once a day. We started the Spirugreen 2 weeks ago and the Enzymes and probiotics about 3 months ago. I need a balance and possibly thinking of cooking the girls meat and adding in veggies but I know I need balance so I am out to search for that also. I have a product I ordered specifically for mixing with cooked or Raw mixture by Dr Jones and it is called Ultimate Canine Formula.

Thank you all. So far for the last 2 days she has had her Raw Darwin’s turkey meals and seems to be getting better but maybe thats because shes on Metronidazole. I am searching other avenues though.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi ahorn66 –

Switching to grain-free would help if he has an intolerance to grains. Regardless of what food you feed, I’d suggest adding a spoonful of plain canned pumpkin to each of Mugsy’s meals and getting him on a high quality digestive supplement with probiotics and digestive enzymes. Give things a few weeks and see if they clear up. Loose stools could be attributable to a few different factors – a food intolerance, unbalanced gut flora, need for increased levels of fiber, etc. Whatever the reason a quality digestive supplement and pumpkin (fiber) should help. Have you ever brought a stool sample into the vet and discussed this issue with your vet?

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi Kevinh219 –

It sounds like you have a knowledgeable vet – it’s always nice to see a vet recommending a more species-appropriate diet rather than the big name veterinary brands like Science Diet and Purina. 🙂

Rather than looking for a food that has all of these items, I’d suggest just finding a few grain-free puppy foods with over 30% protein that you like and adding the glucosamine, chondroitin and L-carnitine separately. Most supplements present in commercial foods are just for marketing anyways, the food rarely contains high enough levels to have any therapeutic effect. Glucosamine, chondroitin and L-carnitine can all be purchased from human supplement stores/websites – Swanson Vitamins has great prices. Just check with your vet to get recommended dosages.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi tonwol –

If it were me, I’d just start trying high quality, grain-free, fish-based foods and see what works. There’s no way to know what will work and won’t work unless you try. With that said, I really do think Sandy’s suggestion to make homemade food would be your best bet (you could use a pre-mix or vitamin/mineral supplement designed to balance homemade diets if you aren’t comfortable making food from scratch). All the brands you’re looking at are good brands and would be worth a try, however if your dog is prone to pancreatitis you may find she can’t tolerate the fat levels in some of these foods (the RC is only 10% fat). The Honest Kitchen’s Zeal might be worth checking out – it’s a grain-free dehydrated food with haddock, whiting and salmon and it’s only 8.5% fat.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Acana Light and Fit would be a good alternative. It’s rated 5 stars, is 60% animal
ingredients, 35% protein, 10% fat and 8.5% fiber. Or you could just try feeding him what your other dogs are eating and adding a digestive supplement (which has probiotics and enzymes) and some supplemental fiber (psyllium, flax, pumpkin or if you’re feeding a grain-inclusive food, you could add bran).

[tonwol]

I am considering switching my 15 year old lab/shepherd mix’s dog food. I am currently feeding Royal Canin Hypoallergenic Selected Protein Large Breed Adult PW prescription diet. It is a potato (white potato) and white fish (herring) limited ingredient diet. The reason that I am looking to switch is due to cost. The price has been increasing on and off for the last 3 years and the last time I picked up a bag from my vet it was nearly $106.00 for a 26.4 lb bag, one month ago it was $98.00. She has been on a prescription diet since she was only 5 years old and has had many health problems so I have reservations about switching. She has inflammatory bowel disease and heart disease. Specifically she has an enlarged heart, leaking mitral valve and leaking tricuspid valve. She also had pancreatitis three times in her earlier years. She is on an ACE inhibitor and diuretic for her heart (Enalapril and Furosemide). The prescription diet is for her IBD and not her heart.

What I am looking for is a food with a fish based protein source. I would like to keep her on herring but I am not finding many OTC foods that have herring and after reading about the California Natural recall that one no longer a choice for us.

I have some questions about the fish and potato sources.
How big of a difference would it be to switch her from herring to a different fish like salmon? Would it make a big difference if the potato source is sweet potato vs. white potato?
Would it make a big difference if she has been eating a food with only one fish source and I switch her to a food that contains many different fish sources like Orijen’s 6 Fish formula?
Lastly, her current food does not have any Omega 3 or 6 added and my vet has advised against giving her Omega 3 supplements due to her IBD and pancreatitis in the past, therefor would it pose problems if I switch her to a food that has added Omega’s in addition to the fish source?

The brands I am currently researching are Evo, Orijen, Wellness, Canine Caviar, Innova Prime, Fromm, Diamond Naturals or Earthborn Holistic. Do any of these brands stand out in a nutritional aspect more than others? Are there any other brands with a fish formula that I am missing that may be an option for her?

I am sorry this is so long. Any help at all would be so very much appreciated!

Thank You,
Tonya

[pugmomsandy]

Thanks HDM. I’m been wanting to reconcile my supplements! Seems I’ve got too many! I’ve been thinking of some whole food vits too. I’ve started using Garden of Life Raw Meal and it’s a bunch of sprouted grains/nuts/seeds, probiotics, enzymes, greens. I’ve been giving him 1 teaspoon with his meals. http://www.vitacost.com/garden-of-life-organic-raw-meal-vanilla-2-5-lbs
I’m also feeding him canned food and a little bit of kibble. When hubby feeds he just does kibble. He still gets around for his age! Still uses the doggy door!

My 3 pug mixes I have right – they’re a wee bit cra-cra!! Absolutely bonkers! I’d rather have a dozen old full pugs!

[Hound Dog Mom]

Poor guy! If it were me, I’d probably do some fish oil, joint support, anti-inflammatories, antioxidants and enzymes.

Vet’s Best has a supplement called “Active Senior Aging Support” that doesn’t look too bad. It has glucosamine, msm, vitamin c, l-carnitine, l-taurine, CoQ10, lycopene, vitamin e, brewer’s yeast, fish oil, spirulina, papaya extract (papain), pineapple extract (bromelain), lecithin, chlorella, cranberry extract, acai extract, bee pollen, goji berry extract, grapeseed extract, pomegranate extract, bilberry extract, dunaliella salina sea algae extract, milk thistle extract and pygeum extract.

BTW – just got in a little of little black pug mixes at my shelter. Soo adorable. Not sure what they’re mixed with but they’re very “puggy.”

[pugmomsandy]

Hi all!

As I am a hoarder now of dog foods and supplements, I was wondering what yall thought about a diet/supplement schedule for my 14 yr old foster. He’s blind, deaf and has arthritis.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi rileydog22 –

I’d recommend checking out Rayne Nutrition (raynenutrition.com) or Just Food for Dogs (justfoodfordogs.com) – both companies make high quality prescription foods. Also, if a homemade diet is something you’re interested in but you’re concerned about your dog getting all the nutrients he needs I’d suggest checking out Balance IT (balanceit.com) – it’s a vitamin/mineral supplement for homemade diets and there’s a recipe generator where you can have a recipe formulated based on specific health concerns. Another option would be finding a holistic veterinarian that will formulate a homemade diet for your dog.

[rileydog22]

Our Coton De Tulear has liver disease and he is only 7. His liver is extremely small and he is going downhill. We started feeding him Science Diet for Liver but it is a poorly rated dog food.
We also are giving him milk thistle, Xanex for discomfort, lactulose and Ursodiol to unblock the bile ducts.
Is there no better dog food out there for a dog with a failing liver? We were feeding him an home-made food, but are concerned that there are no supplements that he may need. We also were giving him Fromm Whitefish and Potato but he can no longer handle it.
Any advice would be helpful. We don’t want to lose him and have heard that liver can be reversed!

[theBCnut]

I give a whole food supplement, a supergreen, fish oil and vit E, and ACV with the mother. Plus occasionals like garlic, coconut oil, probiotics, that sort of thing.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi honeybeesmom1 –

For therapeutic effect I’ve generally seen the recommended dose of glucosamine as being 500 mg. per 25 lbs. I’d start them on about 250 mg. for about 2 weeks and if you see improvement cut the dose in half or give it every other day. You might get better results if you give a combination supplement that contains chondroitin and/or MSM in addition to the glucosamine and, additionally, give an anti-inflammatory such as boswellia, yucca, turmeric, bromelain or tart cherry.

[pugmomsandy]

Blurose,

Usually 2-3% of your dog’s body weight per day and adjust for his activity level. I have small indoor dogs so they would eat just under 2% if they were just eating raw but they eat a variety of foods. Hounddogmom has a list of supplements she gives in the raw food menus thread I think. Maybe she will see this post and chime in. I do give a supergreen supplement and fish oil.

[blurose]

I an thinking about switching my 70 pound Golden Retriever to a raw food diet. How do you determine the amount of food to give each day? I am planning on using frozen raw with bone already incorporated. Also, would I need to add any supplements? Thank you for your help.

[Mom2Cavs]

I’m not a vet, but when my Shih-Poo, Desi…rip, had an attack of pancreatitis the food that worked best for him was Wellness Core Reduced Fat. There are some very good enzyme supplements on the market. The Mercola brand uses animal based instead of plant based and are considered very good. They also make a probiotic supplement with multiple strains. Go to mercola.com in the pets section to read about them. Some sources to read about pancreatitis are: dogaware.com, b-naturals.com and askariel.com to name a few. You could also ask your vet about the enzymes….my vet gave me some when Desi had his attack.

[maddymoiselle]

my 10 yo golden retriever was hospitalized over the weekend for pancreatitis. she is home now and just starting to eat small amts of boiled chicken and rice. tolerating it well:) any suggestions for commercial food for down the road with low fat, high fiber and protein. also, can anyone recommend any supplements(enzymes) for dogs prone to pancreatitis.any suggestions would be appreciated.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi steelerfan500 –

The amount of glucosamine present in dog food is generally too low to provide any theraputic effect. I would recommend supplementing with a quality glucosamine/chondroitin/msm supplement to help maintain joint integrity. I’d also consider supplementing with a natural anti-inflammatory (or combination of a few) such as turmeric, bromelain boswellia, yucca, tart cherry or high doses of omega 3’s (up to 1,000 mg. fish oil per 10 lbs. of body weight to achieve anti-inflammatory benefits). Supplementing with an anti-inflammatory will help with pain and stiffness.

[steelerfan500]

My dog has started to experience some joint stiffness so his vet has us on a join supplement. I was wondering if I should try to switch his food to one with glucosamine and if so which one(s)? I read that the amount of glucosamine in dog food doesn’t amount to very much. Currently my dog is on Taste of the Wild and has been for 3 years now and is doing quite well, I should mention that he has gluten intolerance so no wheat, corn or soy.

Thanks.

Barbara

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi bigcoco-

If you check out the recommended raw menus thread you’ll see some of my menus. My most recent menu (located near the end of the thread) had a full nutrient analysis done and it exceeds the AAFCO nutrient standards for all life stages. You can check out what types of things I’m adding to supply trace nutrients. I make my own whole food supplement my mixing equal parts kelp, alfalfa, spirulina, wheatgrass and bee pollen – they come in powder form that I order from Swanson. I also add things like sprouted nuts and seeds, dairy, oysters, sardines, cod liver oil, etc.

I find that the cheapest way to add muscle meat is gizzards, hearts and green tripe. Although not very appealing to people, these are all quality sources of nutritious and cheap protein for dogs. I have three large dogs that, combined, consume over 6 lbs. of meat per day. About 90% of their meals are raw meaty bones, organs and things like gizzards/heart/tripe – I’d never be able to afford feeding them if they were getting things like boneless skinless chicken breast and lean ground beef as the main component of their meals on a daily basis.

Assuming you are talking about the Happy Hips jerky made by Dogswell, they do not contain 100 IU vitamin E per strip – they contain 100 IU vitamin E per kilogram. Meaning your dog would have to eat over 2 lbs. of treats to get 100 IU vitamin E. Also – just a warning – while I haven’t heard of any issues with the Dogswell brand specifically, a lot of dogs are getting very sick by eating jerky treats made in China and the Dogswell treats are made in China. Just be careful. I personally give my dogs a human vitamin e supplement. My dogs are all large (ranging in size from 68 lbs. to 110 lbs.) – I divide 2-400 IU capsules between their daily breakfast mix so each dog gets about 267 IU per day. I would say you could give your dog a 200 IU capsule daily or a 400 IU capsule every other day.

[bigcoco]

Thanks so much everyone! Really great stuff!

We feed an organ mix that is separate from the 70/30 meat feeding.

I will work harder on getting more meat into the meal.. Right now, I am giving about half to a quarter for the 8 oz pattie of the 70/30 minced meat, and placing chicken breast that I picked up at the store… atleast for the time being.. trying to figure out what would be the most cost effective way to supply the added meat I am supplementing with the Armelinos to help correct the calcium/phos ratio.

I will try and find a better way to get the true trace nutrients into his diet since the pat naturals isn’t doing the trick. I don’t want to go synthetic either, so will be looking for the ingredients you just mentioned above… Is there a mix you get? Or do you just go to the grocery store and pick up the kelp/alfalfa/ wheatgrass..etc?

I will check out that book too.

I also just bought some “happy hips” that has vitamin E (100u) inside.. should this do the trick then? I am looking into the quantity included in the salmon oil. What is the rule with vitamin E and salmon oil/omega 3? i.e. how often to give the vitamin e..

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi schnauzermom –

I had a similar scare with one of my dogs (Gertie, the dog in my avatar) several months ago. I woke up one morning and there was a huge red lump on her paw that was not there the night before. Luckily it turned out to be a histiocytoma which is a benign growth common in young dogs, it disappeared on its own after about a month. Giving probiotics and enzymes will definitely help to keep his immune system in top condition. The kefir should cover his probiotic needs, most brands have well over 10 strains. You could give an enzyme supplement or, better yet, incorporate raw green tripe and/or pancreas into his meals. My dogs don’t get supplemental probiotics or enzymes but they do get raw green tripe several times per week and kefir daily. One enzyme, in particular, that appears to be effective in cancer treatment/prevention is bromelain – it’s derived from raw pineapple. You could puree some fresh raw pineapple to add to his meals a few times a week or purchase a bromelain supplement. Another supplement you may want to consider is turmeric or curcumin (the active concentrate found in turmeric). Turmeric looks to be a promising cancer preventative based on a few studies that have been done. When Gertie developed her histiocytoma I added 1/4 C. pureed fresh pineapple to her meal every other day and gave her 1 tsp. turmeric daily. I still continue to give all my dogs turmeric on a regular basis.