[Cyndi]

HDM or anyone else, I’d like to run down what I’ve been feeding Bailey on a regular basis to see if I’m doing ok & she’s on 13 days of solid, perfect stools, so that’s a plus.

I balance her days meals out to be about 1 1/2 pounds, what she’s supposed to be eating and I don’t do exactly 3/4 lb. for each meal, but I do get pretty exact for the day.
A.M.: about 1/4 Deli Fresh (working on phasing that out), 1/4 lb. Ground beef grind (from Hare Today)(Beef, organs, tripe and bone), & I just started mixing in more ground green tripe, every other day I give her either 1/2 pouch of sardines in water or 1 cage free egg w/shell, I scoop yogurt (usually every other day) & every day she gets Dr. Harvey’s Multi Vitamin Mineral & Herbal Dog Supplement, 1/2 tablet one a day vitamin & 1/4 tsp. coconut oil.

P.M.: Turkey neck & gizzards or 2 small chicken backs and a chicken foot and chicken livers & gizzards.

I think I got everything. I’m wondering if I’m giving her too much bone. Her poop is solid and not coming out white and powdery or anything. Do you think I’m doing ok? It’s been exactly a month since I started her on raw. I think I might have moved along too fast introducing new stuff, but Bailey’s been doing great as of late…

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi panda –

I agree with NectarMom – allergy tests are not accurate. I think they’re just a waste of money, they often give false “positives.” If you really want to find out if a food is causing the reaction you should perform an elimination diet. If you’re interested in feeding raw that’s great because elimination diets are much easier to do with homemade foods than commercial foods like kibble (due to the inclusion of so many ingredients). What you would do is feed your dog a novel protein and novel carbohydrate (something your dog has never eaten before) for at least two months. Once the symptoms clear up (which they should if the issues are food related) you would gradually start introducing new ingredients one at a time and carefully monitoring your dog’s reaction to each ingredient. This way you can pick up on what ingredients elicit the allergic response. There’s a lot of information about elimination diets online and your vet may be able to walk you through the process.

I hadn’t heard of “Mrs. Meady’s” so I just checked out the website. It looks like they offer quality products but you’re going to need to research prior to feeding a “food” such as that. They aren’t balanced foods (just different organ meats and RMBs, some vegetables) and you’re going to need to be knowledgeable about your dog’s nutritional requirements to create a balanced diet from items such as these. There will be some supplementation necessary when not feeding a pre-balanced raw food. Dogaware.com is a great online resource and “Unlocking the Canine Ancestral Diet” by Steve Brown is a great book for beginners.

Good Luck! 🙂

[Codex]

So I’ve been noticing my dog scratching her neck and ears. More recently (past couple days), she’s been chewing on one of her rear paws. It’s not really intense scratching but it’s out of the norm.

I noticed the scratching after she was playing with another dog that she lives with. She kept in going into a patch of tall grass-like plants near a rose bush. (Several weeks ago)

I did give her a bath and I know the vet saying before that Codex has dry skin. But with the warm weather I’m suspecting something else.

She isn’t on flea prevention because I didn’t want to use the stuff you put on the dog’s back. I read they contain very strong pesticides. I finally got around to ordering Sentinel but I know I’ll need to supplement that with a flea repellent or something.

I took her to the vet on Tuesday for her 1 year checkup. I had to drop her off because the receptionist told me the whole thing would take about four hours…I didn’t feed or give her water that morning because I wasn’t anticipating her staying at the vet so long. Anyway, when I picked her up (5+ hours later) she was panting pretty heavily–with the air conditioning. I assumed it was because she was thirsty because Codex loves the vet. I found out they gave her rabies, lepto, Dapp, dewormer, blood test. She seemed pretty sore and tired. But she still had the energy to scratch.

Vet said everything looked normal and she probably has allergies–no fleas. He said I could give her fish oil and Benadryl (for vaccine reactions).
She’s been eating Earthborn Holistic Primitive natural with a little bit of instinct raw. I recently switched the instinct raw to duck. I introduced the duck after the scratching started.

[Mom2Cavs]

I have never fed their diet, but I have fed their supplements and the breeders I got my Cavaliers from also use them frequently. I think they’re quality supplements. I would consider making their diet, if I did homemade.

[Anonymous]

Hello, Has anyone ever tried the Nature’s Farmacy diet? Where their food is prepared at home and then you add all the supplements & vitamins they need depending on their health needs. (Sold from Nature’s Farmacy.) I have heard good things from friends. My Vet has never heard of them though. I hope someone here has some honest news please? Thanks for any help you can offer in advance…

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hey DieselJunki –

There are many other ways to add fiber other than pumpkin. Most human fiber supplements are fine (psyllium, flax, acacia, pectin, bran, coconut fiber, etc.). If you do go the pumpkin route, Fruitables makes a product for dogs (they have a sweet potato variety as well) which blends pumpkin, apple pomace, tomato pomace, spinach and flax to get the ideal ratio of soluble to in soluble fiber. I’ve used it as kong stuffing for my dogs before. For pumpkin I’d add a couple tablespoons to each feeding for a large dog.

I’ve experienced the same thing with Honest Kitchen. My dogs have very large stools when they’re eating it and go to the bathroom about 4 times a day (versus one or two on raw). I’ve also noticed undigested bits in the stool on occasion.

I agree with Cyndi on the DE it’s GREAT stuff. I buy it 10 lbs. at a time and mix it into my dogs’ food regularly – they’ve never had a fecal test positive for parasites.

[Cyndi]

Well, I ended up buying Earthbath Meditteranean Shampoo from Chewy.com when I ordered Bailey’s supplements. I gave her a bath about an hour ago & I LOVE that shampoo! (Thanks Sandy!) I took Bailey outside after her bath to sit on the deck to dry in the sun & holy crap does her coat shine! I am amazed! Not that it was that dull, but man, what a shine! & she is so soft & smells amazing! So, she’s been eating a raw diet for a month now, got a bath with all natural shampoo & she looks awesome! She’s got a soft, shiny coat, bright eyes, whiter than white teeth & a very happy mommy! 🙂 Thank you everyone for all your help, suggestions & opinions! I couldn’t have done it without you! I hope everyone’s having a great weekend!

[harpersmom]

Thanks HDM! Boy, you’re a font of wisdom. Anyone tell you lately that you help the world by posting answers to people’s queries? You’re a good person. Be proud.

I used to be a HUGE fan of those dried liver treats. Sometime ago, i stopped`, probably the cost or the time it takes to get to the store that carries them… I’ll see if i can order online for a reasonable amount. I can also make her my mom’s chicken liver recipe! This whole thing: Surgery, staying home, supplements- costing a fortune! She’s worth it, but i’m definitely needing to watch my budget, big time! 😉 Thanks again, HDM

[pugmomsandy]

Yes probiotics (preferably a multi-strain probiotic) will help with gas. Also digestive enzymes. I give both to my kibble feeders couple times a week. I don’t believe Nutrisource has had recalls. You can find this in stores and online. It’s mid-priced. $50 for 30 lbs and is mid-protein range. I feed the grain free recipes to my foster dogs. They don’t have gas issues with this food even though some of them don’t get supplements. For probiotcs I have mercola brand and Dr Langers by Swansonvitamins. I also give kefir sometimes instead. It’s in the milk section at the grocery store. Some people make their own kefir too.

[Amy]

I am looking for a new food for my dog. I am looking for a highish quality that has a limited or no recall history. She was on Innova for a long while, but switched to Halo. She’s been on it for about six months and now has gas, but otherwise she really enjoys it. Is there a supplement (probiotics or something?) that can help with the gas?

I’d like to be able to find something that is available at a pet store, preferably, or can be ordered online (that isn’t too pricy) and isn’t perishable (if it has to be delivered from online).

Thanks if anyone can help. I am happy I found this site also has a forum! 🙂

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi harpersmom –

I found this concerning CoQ10 and recovery after surgery:

“CoQ10 is found in virtually all cells of the human body as a molecular compound in the mitochondria; a long, oval-shaped part of cells that convert nutrients into energy, including in the heart, liver and skeletal muscles. CoQ10 promotes energy after surgery by functioning as a carrier to transfer electrons across the membrane of mitochondria, which are the energy generators in the body’s cells.”
[nsc24.com/surgery]

Supplementing with CoQ10 definitely wouldn’t hurt anything, although concerning TPLO surgery I’m sure some of the other supplements mentioned would provide more benefit. Oily fish (like sardines), ruminant organ meat (heart, liver and kidneys) and eggs are all rich in CoQ10.

[harpersmom]

WW, i’m NOT an expert, but a friend had a St. Bernard with diet /digestion…. I told her about Probiotics & Enzymes and it helped a TON. Along with a few other changes, the dog is VERY healthy , now. I’m NOT a science diet fan, BTB. I think you can do better. I’m sure there’s a brand that meets your vet’s recommended nutrient ratios that is higher Quality. I like Wellness kibble a LOT, but i supplement it – meaning, i get the bagged kibble to make sure she gets all her vit/mins and basics, but not a huge amount. I give her homemade proteins( chicken, red meats, sometimes canned salmon)) and some whole grains/veg/fruits/cultured dairy, rotating the type of each as i go. Not a restrictive diet, fun to feed her, and she loves it. I don’t mix all the ingredients together, she chooses to eat raw egg first, then yoghurt, then meats ….

My friend fed a chicken/grain diet for a week with the probiotics and enzymes. She then added one ingredient a week, and stopped if the dog reacted poorly. This way, she knew just what causing the trouble… the probiotics/enzymes should be full spectrum…. Good luck…

[pugmomsandy]

Alexandra,

Young Again Pet Food has a raw food supplement for mixing in meat only or meat and bone.

youngagainpetfood.com

[harpersmom]

Can anyone suggest great supplements for a 4.5 year old, Otherwise Very Healthy ,Female Akita who just had TPLO surgery, and will go back in in 8 weeks for the other leg? She’s no dummy, naturally cutting back her own calories when free feeding kibble- due to the reduction in energies spent. I feed Wellness kibble along with a Multitude of Fresh proteins & whole foods. I rotate, advocating variety: chicken, buffalo, salmon, mackerel, fresh caught river trout , a bit of seaweed for iodine, raw farm fresh eggs, some cooked whole grains (everything from barley to quinoa to oatmeal, i rotate), some greens, some fruit & veggies (avocado yesterday). I give a Fish Sourced Omega Oil supplement w/dha (extra now, for inflammation), glucosamine/chondroitin MSM, I’m making fresh chicken broth to give her collagen, and mixing the broth with gelatin for chicken blox treats. Extra protein right now for healing skin, ligaments, muscle. Normal supplements include daily and rotated treats, too: brewer’s yeast, marrow bones, cultured dairy (she LOVES my homemade creme fraiche and yoghurt), probiotics (daily, especially since she’s on antibiotics right now…wellness kibble has prebiotics in it, too), seasonally: fresh raw local honey w/pollen for allergies. Perhaps i’m leaving some basic vit/min supplements off this list, but are there any supplements that will specifically aid in healing, recover, address inflammation, or help reduce pain that i’m missing? The vet has her on Rimadyl, antibiotics, tramadol. Thank you… And if you’ve personally gone through a TPLO with a Big, Young, Active dog, i’d LOVE to ask you some very specific questions, if anyone has the time… I appreciate your help.

[Alexandra]

Thanks HDM,

So do you prepare food for a week in advance? I see that you recipie is one meal, so by that, I would get two days from a batch then.

I am nervous about this, but the benefits of 100% raw are to great to ignore. Since kibble teeth don’t look as nice, larger stool volume…great coats though. :). The new Orijen does work well for them.

Thanks for the info on the supplements, I have been doing a little shopping. 🙂

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi Alexandra –

I have a big plastic container with a screw top lid that I store the supplement in. I keep mine in the fridge but as long as it’s stored in a cool place away from sunlight and moisture it should be fine. Just go by the shelf life that’s listed on the ingredients you buy (go by the ingredient that has the shortest shelf life). Generally things like dried grasses, kelp, etc. are pretty shelf stable. It usually takes me about 2 months to go through a batch.

• This reply was modified 12 years, 6 months ago by Hound Dog Mom.

[Alexandra]

Hi HDM,

Question on the mineral supplements. What do you do to store it? How long does the mixture last?

[GSDsForever]

Just to add another response — personally I’d prefer the Horizon. I really like what I’ve learned about the company and what I can see in the ingredients. I’d personally feel more confidence and trust in Horizon’s products, especially the fish ones.

I agree with the above comments regarding variety & rotating foods.

I’m also a big believer in giving high quality fresh whole foods (gently cooked or raw), to supplement whatever kibble/canned, if you’re not going to feed homemade exclusively or at least part of the time.

[LckyNmbr12]

Do either of you happen to know of any resources to use when trying to determine the appropriate dosage for a dog when using human supplements?

[Hound Dog Mom]

If you go back to the Darwin’s you could continue to add boneless if it helps her stools and keep the multi. Mixing foods (canned, dehdyrated, raw, etc.) is fine but the same rule would apply – if more than 20% total is unbalanced I’d recommend a multi. I’m sure there are a lot of good multi options on Swanson’s. I would look for a multi that supplies 30% – 50% DV calcium (for people) and give her 1/4 the human dose (this would provide roughly enough calcium to balance out the phosphorus in the boneless and shouldn’t stop her up like bone would). If you go with a multi without calcium give her a calcium supplement that provides about 100 mg. per day (if you continue to add that amount of boneless). You’re not being dense, it just gets kind of confusing! It took me awhile to figure all this stuff out too.

[pugmomsandy]

That’s quite a broad statement. Meat and eggs do not make a complete diet. Dogs also need bones and organs and even green tripe has some vegetation in it. Fish (of course there are certain ones to avoid) is also good to incorporate into their diet. Also these days, the meat from our feed animals and farmed fish are not very healthy so certain vitamins and essential fatty acid supplementation can be necessary.

[theBCnut]

Coconut oil is also good for the coat as well as having other health boosting properties. Get organic virgin coconut oil. Taking care of your dogs gut is the best way to boost the immune system, so putting him on a good multistrain probiotic really helps. Google Swansons and look for Dr Langers, it has a good number of different strains and human probiotics are every bit as good as ones marketed for dogs but tend to be much cheaper. Swansons also has a nice soil based organism supplement. And they have a really nice green super food supplement that would be beneficial as well. Most dogs that get demodex get it when under stress, so boosting his nutrition will help too. What kind of food is he on?

[LckyNmbr12]

Hello, I recently rescued an american bullador pup (american bulldog/lab mix) who has demodectic mange. He is currently taking ivermectin (I know this can be dangerous but he doesn’t appear to be having any issues or reactions from it), and because he is young, my vet doesn’t think he will have any issues overcoming it with the medication and itch-relief shampoo. However, I want to ensure he gets better as soon as possible, and I hope to prevent further immune system issues. Has anyone had experience with this? Can anyone recommend any supplements or home remedies that will help get him and keep him healthy? I’ve seen there are various multivitamins aimed at immune-boosting, as well as other supplements such as colostrum. I’ve also seen that fish oil, specifically salmon oil, can be extremely helpful in mending and maintaining his skin and coat. Any advice? Thanks!!

[mah4angel]

Louie had his dental cleaning today and we were told that his pre-exam testing showed elevated liver levels (I think she said enzymes) and were prescribed a liver supplement called S-Adenosyl-225 or Denamarin SAMe (225 mg).
I tried asking the vet what could have caused his liver (enzyme?) spike (ALT/SGPT at 149 U/L, 100 is the cap) and she suggested it could be early liver disease, could be something he ate recently, it’s hard to tell without diagnostics.
What else can cause this spike? What else can I do to prevent this from happening again/care for his liver? He also has another ear infection, which sucks. But I think the original vet we went to probably under-prescribed the cortisone drops (Otomax with yeast and bacteria treatment), and did not instruct us to use/prescribe us an ear cleanser. So, that might have caused some of the problem.
Anyway, I don’t want my dog to have liver problems in the future, and I’d appreciate any suggestions you lovely dog enthusiasts have to offer.
Thanks so much 😀

[Cyndi]

Oh, ok. Thanks HDM! I’ll just get one of the herbal stool supplements you suggested, for now. But, let’s hope she does NOT still have loose stools come Friday!

Hi Sandy, Yes, there was a time when she had normal stools. This week starts her 4th full week on raw. She had a problem with runny stools and threw up once right at the beginning, but that only lasted for like a day and a half, 2 days at most. Then she went 11 days with perfect hard, small poops. The only thing that was different in her diet this time she got diarrehea (sorry, I just can not spell that word) was I added a small piece of chicken gizzard to her food. I can see her possibly getting runny stools from that, but not for 4 days, right? I am going to, more or less, start over. I’ll stop introducing new foods and just keep her on chicken thighs and leg quarters and the chicken grind for a bit longer.

So, I gave her breakfast about 45 minutes ago and nothing yet. She didn’t poop first thing this morning, of course, because I fasted her last night, so we’ll see. I’ll keep you guys posted….

Thanks you guys! Happy Memorial Day!!

[Anonymous]

At Bffpuppy.com, Dog lovers can get dog health care products and dog nutritional supplements at very competitive prices. We are offering a full range of dog health products and accessories.

[Anonymous]

Always keep your dog healthy with dog vitamins & supplements products from BFFPuppy.com. We offers a huge varieties of dog vitamins and supplements.

[Hound Dog Mom]

The Dr. Harvey’s herbal supplements are like whole food multi-vitamin/minerals – I don’t believe they’re for loose stools so you could give it in combination with one of the herbal stool supplements I suggested. Good luck!

[Cyndi]

HDM, I actually had that written down to get when I get paid on friday. I was actually going to get Dr. Harvey’s Multi Vitamin Mineral & Herbal Dog Supplement, but I will look into the one’s you suggested instead…..or both. Thanks again!!

[Hound Dog Mom]

Cyndi –

Another thought – you could try an herbal supplement for loose stools. I’ve never had to use one, but I have heard of individuals having success with them. Many contain ingredients such as slippery elm, marshmallow root, papaya leaf and licorice root. These herbs help to heal the gut and firm stools. Some to look into would be: Perfect Form made by The Honest Kitchen, Gastriplex made by Thorne Research, Phytomucil by Animals’ Apawthecary, GastriX by Hilton Herbs and Enhance by Aunt Jeni’s.

[Hound Dog Mom]

I can imagine how frustrated you must be! If it were me, assuming the stools aren’t completely liquid diarrhea and you really want to make a raw diet work, I would ride it out awhile longer. Some dogs just take longer to adjust to changes in diet. Although I don’t feel it’s common, a raw diet just may not be right for some dogs. Do you have her on a probiotic supplement? (I’m almost certain this has been discussed already, but I thought I’d check just in case). If not, that could help. It is possible that she could be eating something in the yard – if you suspect this is the issue, try not letting her outdoors unsupervised for a few days and see if things clear up. Ultimately, you need to follow your gut and do what you feel is in the best interest of your dog. There’s no reason to feel guilty or like you’re not doing the best you can for her by not feeding raw. If I recall correctly you were feeding Fresh Pet and a 5 star kibble prior to trying raw, while this may not be a raw diet be comforted in knowing this is better than what about 95% of dogs are eating. There are also several non-raw options that, with the addition of digestive enzymes, could be nearly as good as a raw diet. You could try a homemade cooked diet with enzymes and see if she tolerates this better, Fresh Pet + enzymes, a dehydrated food + enzymes (The Honest Kitchen, Grandma Lucy’s, etc.) or a high quality canned food + enzymes. If any of these combinations worked out you could attempt to incorporate a RMB 2 – 3 times a week just as a treat and not at the main component of the diet so that she would get the dental benefits a raw diet has to offer.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi Marie –

If you aren’t balancing the Hare Today grinds out with the appropriate supplements and nutrient-dense whole foods, then I think Darwin’s would be the better option. If you’re adding the appropriate vegetables, whole food supplements, efas etc. to the Hare Today grinds, then I think the Hare Today grinds would be the better option. I think that both the Hare Today grinds and the Darwin’s formulas likely have similar bone content (probably ~10%). Darwin’s would definitely be more convenient if you didn’t want to put the work into balancing the Hare Today grinds.

[Hound Dog Mom]

My local pet food store recently started carrying this too – I didn’t look too much into it because for some reason I was think it was HPP…but I don’t see anything about this on their website. Judging by their website it appears that it’s made with very high quality ingredients and that the company has a great system of quality control protocols in place. The two things that would prevent me from feeding this brand exclusively is that every formula contains pork – I don’t like continuous exposure to the same protein source, I think it increases the odds that the dog will develop a sensitivity to that particular protein source. The other thing I don’t like is that it relies heavily on synthetic vitamins and minerals to supply necessary nutrients. All it contains is meat, bone and pumpkin so they have to add a vitamin/mineral pre-mix to balance it. If they were to include organ meat and other nutrient-dense whole foods (i.e. a great variety of fruits and vegetables, eggs, “superfoods” like kelp, alfalfa, etc.) they could rely less on synthetic supplements and, if they were really careful about their formulation, eliminate the need for synthetic supplements all together. Ultimately, it looks fine to use in a rotational feeding plan with other brands but I wouldn’t recommend feeding it exclusively.

[Hound Dog Mom]

As long as the homemade portion is 20% or less of the meal you don’t need to worry about balancing it. If you plan on feeding more than 20% of his diet as homemade food you’ll need to balance the recipe. Add a variety of fresh cooked and pureed vegetables , pureed fruit (don’t go overboard, fruit is high in carbohydrates) and fresh minced herbs (parsley, cilantro, etc.). To balance the fats in the turkey add 1 tsp. flax or chia oil or 1 tbs. ground flax or chia seeds (provides essential fatty acids without contributing to the level of linoleic acid which is already high in poultry) per pound of turkey. For dogs with cancer the recommended dosage of fish oil is the amount that provides 300 mg. combined EPA and DHA per 10 lbs. of body weight – so for your dog you’d be aiming for around 1,200 mg. combined EPA and DHA daily (most fish oil capsules have around 300 mg. combined EPA and DHA). If you’re feeding predominantly homemade, I would recommend making one of the capsules a vitamin a and d rich quality cod liver oil (I like Carlson’s brand). I would definitely feed eggs once or twice a week – cage free are best as they’re higher in omega 3’s and vitamins such as d and e. I would supplement with around 100 IU vitamin e daily (could give a higher dosage 2 – 3 times a week). You want to add 1 ground eggshell per pound of meat to balance the calcium to phosphorus ratio. I’d also add a whole food supplement comprised of nutrient rich “superfoods” – you can buy pre-made supplement’s (such as Nature’s Logic All-Food Fortifier, Dr. Harvey’s E-mune Boost, Wysong’s Wild Things, etc.) or make your own. I make my own, I buy bulk ingredients from human supplement stores – the current blend I’m feeding is 1 part kelp, 1 part spirulina, 1 part alfalfa, 1 part wheatgrass and 1 part bee pollen. Whole food supplements will help supply vital trace nutrients. Lastly, I would recommend switching up protein sources often. Is there a reason you’re looking at feeding only turkey? If your dog doesn’t have any sensitivities it’s best to feed a variety of poultry and red meats (if you’re feeding red meat use hemp seeds/oil instead of flax or chia).

[KJ_Boxers]

I’ve tried Satin Balls as a supplement and all they succeeded in doing was to give the boxer diarrhea. Diarrhea is not something you want to happen with a skinny boxer.

[GSDsForever]

It looks like the Classic version of the Elk would be okay for you also, none of known allergens listed for it:

1st 5 Ingredients: Elk, Salmon Meal, Sweet Potatoes, Pumpkin, Salmon Oil

Elk, Salmon Meal, Oats, Sweet Potatoes, Pumpkin, Salmon Oil, Dried Kelp, Alfalfa, Pears, Blueberries, Strawberries, Figs, Sage, Rosemary, Summer Savory, Cinnamon, Flax Seed, Carrots, Celery, Beets, Watercress, Potassium Chloride, Lecithin, Dried Lactobacillus acidophilus Fermentation Product, Dried Lactobacillus Casei Fermentation Product, Dried Lactobacillus Lactis Fermentation Product, Dried Bacillus Subtilis Fermentation Product, Taurine, DL-Methionine, Zinc Amino Acid Complex, Choline Chloride, Iron Amino Acid Complex, Vitamin E Supplement, Manganese Amino Acid Complex, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Vitamin A Acetate, Niacin, Calcium Pantothenate, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Riboflavin, Folic Acid, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Thiamine Hydrochloride, Biotin, Cobalt Proteinate, Potassium Iodide, Sodium Selenite, Mixed Tocopherols, Citric Acid, Yucca Schidigera Extract, Rosemary Extract

[GSDsForever]

Ocean Blue Classic version *might* be okay too. I’d ask — because I know in the past, the “potatoes” the owner has used he stated are sweet potatoes, not white potatoes. It’s easiest to reach them via online chat (pops up on their website).

Classic is their lower priced, more moderate protein line, which may or may not by formula include grains. Here are the Classic version ingredients:

1st 5 ingredients: White Fish Meal, Herring, Salmon Meal, Salmon Oil, Blueberries

*Fish is wild caught Alaskan, no Ethoxyquin. Salmon oil is from wild caught Alaskan also.

White Fish Meal, Herring, Potatoes, Salmon Meal, Salmon Oil, Blueberries, Figs, Basil, Dill, Anise Seed, Caraway Seed, Watercress, Spinach, Celery, Parsley, Marigold Flowers, Sesame Seeds, Almonds, Dried Lactobacillus acidophilus Fermentation Product, Dried Bacillus Subtilis Fermentation Product, Dried Bifidobacterium Thermophilum Fermentation Product, Dried Bifidobacterium Longum Fermentation Product, Dried Enterococcus Faecium Fermentation Product, Zinc Amino Acid Complex, Choline Chloride, Iron Amino Acid Complex, Vitamin E Supplement, Manganese Amino Acid Complex, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Vitamin A Acetate, Niacin, Calcium Pantothenate, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Riboflavin, Folic Acid, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Thiamine Hydrochloride, Biotin, Cobalt Proteinate, Potassium Iodide, Sodium Selenite, Mixed Tocopherols, Citric Acid, Yucca Schidigera Extract, Rosemary Extract

As you can see, there are no grains in this lower priced formula either. I’d inquire whether the potatoes are white or sweet potatoes.

[GSDsForever]

Here are the ingredients for the Timberwolf Ocean Blue Platinum I recommended:

1st 5 Ingredients: Herring, Salmon, Dried Salmon, Chickpeas, Ocean Fish

*Fish are wild caught Alaskan, no Ethoxyquin.
**Food is low temperature steam/pressure cooked at 200-225 Degrees, max 10-15 minutes.

Herring, Salmon, Spray Dried Salmon, Chick Peas, Ocean Fish, Spray Dried Whitefish, Sweet Potatoes, Olive Oil, Salmon Oil, Dried Organic Kelp, Dried Saccharomyces Cerevisiae, Herring Oil, Dehydrated Alfalfa Meal, Thyme, Anise Seed, Fenugreek, Garlic, Ginger, Mango, Blueberries, Cranberries, Whole Carrots, Dried Celery, Dried Parsley, Dried Lettuce, Dried Watercress, Dried Spinach, Lecithin, Choline Chloride, Minerals: [Zinc Amino Acid Complex, Iron Amino Acid Complex, Manganese Amino Acid Complex, Calcium Pantothenate, Potassium Iodide, Sodium Selenite], Vitamins: [Vitamin E Supplement, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Vitamin A Acetate, Niacin (A Source Of Vitamin B3), Vitamin D3 Supplement, Riboflavin (A Source Of Vitamin B2), Folic Acid, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride (A Source Of Vitamin B6), Thiamine Hydrochloride (A Source Of Vitamin B1), Biotin (A Source Of Vitamin B7), Citric Acid (A Source Of Vitamin C), Mixed Tocopherols (A Source Of Vitamin E and A Natural Preservative)], Prebiotics: [Chicory Root (Inulin)], Probiotics: [Dried Lactobacillus Acidophilus Fermentation Product, Dried Lactobacillus Casei Fermentation Product, Dried Lactobacillus Lactis Fermentation Product, Dried Bacillus Subtillus Fermentation Product], Papain, Yucca Schidigera Extract, Beta-Carotene, Fructooligosaccharides, Taurine, L-Carnitine, DL-Methionine, Lemon Juice, Rosemary Extract (A Natural Preservative).

[GSDsForever]

Suresh,

Nice to hear things are going well for you. Keep up the good work!

One caution: dogs absolutely should NOT be given chocolate. You mentioned chocolate flavoring. Chocolate is toxic to dogs, along with other common foods like caffeine (coffee/tea), onions, grapes/raisins, macadamia nuts, walnuts, etc.

If you are going to feed homemade, which can be the very best for dogs, it is important to become familiar with poisonous ingredients for dogs, study/consult for proper diet balancing of nutrients, and use a quality multi-vitamin & mineral supplement (and if vegetarian/vegan, one specifically designed for vegetarian/vegan fed dogs).

[GSDsForever]

Ken,

I am so very, very sorry to hear about your dog. Yes, I do have experience with cancer diets and holistic multi-pronged treatment, particularly T Cell Leukemia which is similar.

I’d strongly recommend your vets consulting with this holistic and board certified oncologist, Dr. Betsey Hershey:

http://www.integrativeveterinaryoncology.com/

She is OUTSTANDING and, no matter how humble and self-deprecating she is, she has had amazing success rates with multiple cancers, and is widely consulted for cancer (her specialty) as well as by neurology specialist vets for challenging conditions where holistic knowledge is needed.

She is additionally certified in Chinese Medicine and Canine Acupuncture, trained in dietary therapy, etc. Also obtain online or from her office the diet protocols & Susan Wynn on homemade. (It’s also worth trying the Ogilvie protocol of Cottage Cheese/Flax Oil.) Ask Dr. Hershey’s office specifically about Wei Qi Immune Booster (patented Chinese medicine blend), also organic greens (sea vegetables/grasses) supplementing. High dose natural Vitamin E & a mega mega dose of decaff green tea extract (being used in clinical human trials at the Mayo Clinic).

For diet, Dr Hershey wants patients on 40% protein (and clean, highly digestible), moderate to high fat, and low carbs. ALL simple carbs and sugar are to be avoided in food and treats. The key is to starve the cancer of sugar and nourish, strengthen the body. She recommends fats like virgin coconut oil.

Above all, do NOT let anyone tell you that your dog has the worst, most lethal form of cancer and has a terrible prognosis (based on blood work numbers or statistics). It’s the whole picture of the dog that matters and holistic, multi-pronged treatment can work wonders.

[GSDsForever]

Sorry to be the party pooper & naysayer, BUT . . .

I just do NOT think this product is worth spending the money on. I think the ingredients are very generic & see nothing special about it to make it some wonder product or justify its prices. It’s apparently all over the radio & TV right now, and I’ve had several people ask me about it.

I think there are much better supplements out there (and cleaner/purer) at lower cost. There are some ingredients that even strike me as wholly unnecessary and not beneficial in any way. And I think other ingredients in its various versions should and can easily come from a good food.

If it works for you, great, good luck. But I think it’s a waste of money and not a very well designed product with highest quality of ingredients.

This product seems about as magical as all those PetSmart/Petco supplement aisle products that claim to get rid of shedding, and then contain very basic cheap cooking oils and bargain basement vitamin mix.

[GSDsForever]

My dog became adept at spitting out sliced meat or cheese along with the pills, with great flourish and disgust, wouldn’t even eat the meat or cheese! He turned his head away from natural peanut butter, that was sticking his mouth together.

He loves the cream cheese and takes it happily, even seeing me (smartie pants GSD) dip his supplement pills in it.

[GSDsForever]

In case this helps someone else giving pills or supplements . . .

I use the whipped version of cream cheese (Trader Joe’s) and it works like a charm!

The thing that concerns me with peanut butter, once you even find an all natural one (not loaded up with sugar/corn syrup and weird additives), is the aflatoxin risk. A potent carcinogen. And then there was the peanut butter recalls over salmonella — good grief, it’s been many months and stores like Costco are just now returning the natural versions to the shelf. Trader Joe’s popular Valencia one is still gone.

[GSDsForever]

Suresh,

The highest quality dog foods and best companies take great care not to include those nasty ingredients. The key is finding a company/brand you believe in and can trust.

Looking at a company’s history, verifying the quality of main ingredients/sourcing on the the label, quality control checks, etc. will help reassure you about the food you select. If they aren’t forthcoming with answers and sympathetic, eager to help (although with the really small companies this can take time to get back to you with answers), or are evasive & vague or deceptive, or you don’t like the answers, walk away & find another brand.

Re vegetarian diets, if they are *vegetarian* as opposed to vegan, it is possible for them to be every bit as high quality, digestible, nutrient rich and health promoting as meat based. Organic free range natural vegetarian fed eggs, organic yogurt with live cultures, cottage cheese are all very good primary protein sources for dogs. You can do this with homemade. I’ve not been very impressed with commercially prepared, generally vegan (not merely vegetarian), kibbles and canned foods and I am pretty familiar with the options out there. Other new ones are insanely expensive. So while it is theoretically possible to make a very good vegetarian commercial kibble, it doesn’t seem to be readily available.

Not vegetarian, but more acceptable to many vegetarians, in that it is not cruelly factory farmed, fed unnatural weird things, and one of the least contaminated flesh foods out there is sardines. All are wild, live near the bottom of the food chain and so are not contaminated like other larger & longer lived predator fish, super high Omega 3 brain food also great for skin & coat, perfectly balanced calcium-phosphorous & soft easily digestible bones. Sardines are probably one of the very best non-vegetarian foods a dog could eat, and, to my mind, waaaay superior to the more popular-with-humans chicken based food.

Vegan is doable in dogs but riskier and harder, needs a good supplement including things like B12, l-carnitine, taurine, Omega 3. The easy part is supplying the amino acids through an array of foods, as the body does not distinguish between the same amino acid from one food versus another. In terms of nutrients (not natural preferences or digestive system), dogs are more omnivorous vs obligate carnivores, cats. The hard part is that many plant foods are not easily digested by dogs, whose systems are not designed for them. Many beans and whole grains (non whole grains, like white rice, are easily digested but high sugar) are next to impossible for dogs to digest, no matter how well cooked & prepared. Some breeds, like GSDs, are even less capable as a group of digesting than other breeds. Unlike whole soybeans, tofu IS very digestible; many dogs like it; it’s very versatile in how it can be prepared; and it offers various health benefits. It is healing to the stomach lining, for example. On the other hand, a prominent very balanced study of vegetarian fed pets showed that pets fed vegetarian diets without soy had much better health and longevity. From personal experience and knowledge of dogs eating vegetarian diets, lentils and black eyed peas seem to be more easily digested. It can be hard to supply enough calories and avoid too much fiber. Dogs can consume up to 50% fat in their diets in good health though, and vegetarian fats like organic virgin coconut oil are good for them & easily digested. Vegetarian diets, in humans and dogs, tend to be excessively high in Omega 6 fats which are pro-inflammatory and deficient in Omega 3.

Certain breeds like boxers and dobermans are at much greater health risk on a vegetarian or vegan diet, due to high breed susceptibility to deadly cardiomyopathy.

[satobrinn]

Hi wantthebest4myk9:

I wanted to post this last night but I became too busy…..this is a nice starting point for a dog’s home cooked diet that can be tweaked to a dog’s specific needs. I wouldn’t hesitate to consult with either a vet or dog nutritionist if you have concerns about deficiencies or too much protein. I’m not as familiar with the dietary requirements of a toy dog other than the reality of having to feed them more often to make sure they get an adequate amount of food for proper nutrition. Carbs in general aren’t considered necessary for a healthy canine diet, but again, each dog’s needs are different. Hopefully this can be a helpful starting point and you can feel good about what you feed your dog (other supplements are optional and best discussed with your vet):

Sample daily cooked diet:
8 to 12 ounces lean muscle meat/heart/fish/leftovers
1 to 2 ounces liver or kidney (daily or every other day)
1 to 2 eggs (daily or every other day)
1 to 4 ounces yogurt, kefir or cottage cheese
2 to 8 ounces cooked grains, pasta, or starchy veggies (no more than half the diet, max)
Any amount of green or other non-starchy vegetables
1000 mg calcium (for example, 1/2 tsp ground eggshell, or 1 tsp Animal Essentials Natural Calcium, or 1 tsp bone meal that has 1000 mg calcium per teaspoon)

[Hound Dog Mom]

You could try adding a limited ingredient venison-based canned food, dehydrated food or raw food to make the dry more palatable.

Canned Options:
-EVO Grain-Free 95% Venison
-Canine Caviar Green Venison Tripe
-Natural Balance LID Venison & Sweet Potato
-Addiction Venison and Apple Entree
-Wysong Venison Au Jus

Dehydrated Options:
-Grandma Lucy’s Artisan Venison
-Addiction Fig’licious Venison Feast

Frozen Raw:
-Primal Canine Venison Formula

Also, another dry food that’s venison based and limited in ingredients to possible try would be Addiction’s Viva La Venison.

All of the formulas I mentioned contain venison as the only protein source and some of the canned formulas contain only venison and no other ingredients (aside from vitamins/minerals) so they shouldn’t trigger any sensitivities.

I would also recommend supplementing his diet with a high quality multi-strain probiotic supplement and digestive enzymes to help strengthen his digestive system. A spoonful of pumpkin with each meal during the transition may help as well.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi beagleowner –

According to Dr. Karen Becker:

“Lipomas are benign fatty masses that are incredibly common in dogs. The traditional veterinary community believes there is no breed, sex or age predisposition for the development of lipomas. And it’s true any dog can grow a lipoma – young, old, spayed, neutered, obese or thin.

However, holistic veterinarians believe there’s a correlation among the quantity and size of lipomas, the vitality of a dog, and how well she metabolizes fat. If a dog doesn’t have a vibrant, thriving metabolism, what tends to happen is that dog lays down fat in what I call ‘glumps.’

When you or I gain weight, we tend to gain it in several places on our bodies. When a dog with inappropriate fat metabolism gains weight, he adds glumps of fat in one spot. These glumps of fat are lipomas, or benign fatty masses.”

Dr. Marty Goldstein believes that high carbohydrate, processed (species-inappropriate) commercial foods cause some dogs to lose the ability to metabolize fat, resulting in lipomas. He recommends feeding dogs as close to their natural diet as possible.

Dr. Shawn Messonier recommends supplementing the diet of dogs having lipomas with immune-strengthening herbs such as alfalfa, burdock, goldenseal and thistle.

On Holistic Pet Info, Dr. Colleen Smith claims that there is a correlation between high carbohdyrate diets and lipomas.

Given this information, I would say that you’re on the right track by moving towards homemade food and high protein, grain-free kibble. However, the homemade diet you described above is extremely unbalanced and in the long term will likely cause more harm than good. If you’re going to continue to feed this recipe keep it to no more than 20% of your dog’s total intake and feed the grain-free kibble as the other 80%. If you would like to venture into an entirely homemade diet (which would be wonderful!) I’d recommend checking out some balanced recipes. There are many wonderful books available on homemade diets – “Unlocking the Canine Ancestral Diet” by Steve Brown, “Real Food for Healthy Dogs and Cats” by Dr. Becker, “Optimal Nutrition Raw and Cooked Canine Diets” by Monica Segal and many more (check out Amazon – look for books that are written by veterinarians or nutritionists or that contain AAFCO compliant recipes). Dogaware.com is a great resource on health issues and on homemade diets. You could also utilize a pre-mix (i.e. The Honest Kitchen’s Preference, Urban Wolf, See Spot Live Longer Dinner Mix, Birkdale PetMix, Dr. Harvey’s, etc.) – pre-mixes contain all the nutrients your dog needs, all you need to do is add fresh meat. I’d also look into supplementing whatever food you decide to feed with immune-boosting herbs, as mentioned above. Good luck!

• This reply was modified 12 years, 7 months ago by Hound Dog Mom.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi patk –

Any 4 or 5 star grain-free food would be worth a try, you’ll just need to find one that works for your dog. Dogs are all different, so a food that is well tolerated by one dog may not be tolerated as well by another. It’s trial and error. Because loose stools are a sign of poor digestion, I would however recommend that you invest in a quality probiotic and digestive enzyme supplement to give in conjunction with whatever food you decide on. Enzymes aid in the breakdown of food during the digestion process. Raw foods are naturally rich in enzymes however when food is cooked (such as with kibble) the enzymes are destroyed. Most dogs eat kibble as the bulk of their diet and as a result their diet is devoid of enzymes. Some enzymes are secreted by the pancreas however a dog’s ability to produce adequate quantities of digestive enzymes decreases with age, so because your dog is a senior supplemental enzymes would be a good idea. Probiotics are beneficial bacteria found in the gut of any healthy animal – they aid in the digestive process, help to keep “bad” bacteria in check and boost the immune system. As animals age there is a significant decrease in the population of friendly bacteria residing in the gut making the addition of supplemental probiotics highly beneficial.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Dr. Harveys contains supplemental calcium, they don’t list calcium to phosphorus ratios of the end product for Veg-to-Bowl, but they do list it for the Canine Health Mix as being 1:1.1 C:P which would be slightly low.

[gram]

My question is an extension of the “which food is best”. If you feed a variety of 5 star rated dry foods (i.e. they meet the nutritional requirements), is it a good idea to supplement your adult dogs diet with fresh foods (e.g., tomatoes, apples, eggs, salmon oil, carrots, lean cooked meat, yogurt). All these are foods that my 50 lb. golden mix likes. I feed them to him occasionally as treats. However, should I be feeding them on a regular basis as supplements?
Thanks.
Leslie