[anonymously]

Ask your vet if a prescription med would be helpful, they are often used in stubborn cases.
I’m not talking about supplements or otc meds.
It would depend on the type of stones, of course, and requires a prescription from your dog’s vet. For example: Uroeze, Allopurinol…..

[anonymously]

There is NO magic supplement. The trick is to add water to each meal 3-4 small meals per day soaked in water, don’t measure, just fill the small bowl, the dog will lap it up to get to the food.
The dog must be taken out to void (pee) ideally every 2 hours during the day. At bedtime and first thing in the morning. Stagnant conditions in the bladder are conducive to stone formation.
There is nothing wrong with Royal Canin Urinary SO. If you get the dry, soak it in water overnight then add water too. Once the dog is stable, few months to a year, you can talk to your vet about adding something tasty to the prescription food, like cooked chopped up chicken breast or some other lean meat.
Did you check the search engine here /forums/search/bladder+stones/
Read my posts, you may find some helpful tips
Some info at this site you may find helpful http://skeptvet.com/Blog/?s=bladder+stones

[InkedMarie]

go to th diet and health issues forum, under this one. On top, in a yellow stickie, is a long thread on feeding large breed puppies. You may find a problem with your budget. With everything, actually. Large breeds will cost you more for food, supplements, grooming, some medicines, crate etc.

[JeffreyT]

Hi Craig,
DogFoodie gave you some great suggestions.
We have two very picky maltese, one with a sensitive stomach.
After a lot of trial and error with many types of foods, we found the freeze dried is the most palatable, easily digested and tolerated by our pups. I suggest starting with freeze dried that is pathogen-free (HPP process removes bacteria, salmonella, parasites, etc). Add filtered water and let soak in a few minutes. Rotating foods keeps them excited about mealtime, and is healthier than eating only one type of food. The following are some of the pathogen-free freeze dried mine will eat.
Stella and Chewy
Primal
Northwest Naturals (pretty sure it’s HPP)
Stewarts
Nutrisca
Dogs for the Earth (it’s already lightly cooked using all organic ingredients).

Honest Kitchen makes a great food. I wish mine liked it. You can order sample packs online.

I always add probiotics and enzymes to food which helps strengthen gut, digestion, immune system and vitality….we alternate between Dr. Peter Tobias, Mercola and Animal Essentials….all source non-GMO, pure ingredients. We keep Perfect Form by Honest Kitchen on hand in case of loose stools, but we rarely need to use anymore. I always start any supplement at a much lower dose than suggested and slowly build up.

When your pup gets stronger you may consider adding freeze dried foods that do not go through the HPP process since it’s less processed, like Orijen. Ours are crazy for the crunchy freeze dried like Tru Dog, which uses grass fed, free range meats, Only Natural Niblets and Vital Essentials. The only dry type food we give is an air dried, grass fed, minimally processed food from Real Meat Food Co. We buy the 3 pack sample bags for our rotation. They love this it and it’s easy to serve when in a hurry.

FYI, we use toppers on meals to entice our picky eaters. When feeding cooked food like Dogs for the Earth we add a cooked topper such as Dogs for the Earth liver and parsley treat, egg yolk, a sprinkle of parmesan, some lean meat or Lakse Kronch Wild Salmon Treats, etc. When feeding the raw freeze dried we top it with a few freeze dried treats (Stella and Chewys or Orijen). I try to add cooked toppers to cooked food and raw toppers to raw food to make it easier on digestion.

[Steven H]

There meal recipes came from The Healthy Dog Cookbook. Meat and Potato Patties (treats), Doggy Delicious Omelet, Spring Chicken Dinner and Thanksgiving Dinner (minus the cran and turkey sauces, ingredients in those not good).
Then of course the supplements, Canine Plus, Omega 3,6, 9 and Seaweed Calcium.
I have just this week introduced them to Merrick grain free chicken and sweet potato. Vets both agreed that it is a good idea for teeth cleaning and having a plan C, plan B is the Whole Earth Farms Hearty Chicken and Hearty Turkey grain free stew.

Going forward it was suggested to me to give them the hard kibble 4 meals a week with the rest being home cooked…. They get two meals a day, morning and evening and of course the home cooked treats during the day…..

[JeffreyT]

After doing a lot of research on purity and effectiveness, we alternate between Dr. Peter Tobias, Mercola and Animal Essentials.

For a multi vitamin mineral we’ve been alternating between Mercola’s Spirugreen and Dr. Peter Tobias’ green superfood multi-vitamin and mineral….both whole food, mostly organic. They’re easily digested and well tolerated by our small picky maltese.

We make a paste out of it, add probiotics (alternate between Mercola, Animal Essentials and Peter Tobias) and other Mercola supplements. They’re really picky but they lick this off my hand like it’s an appetizer.

You may also want to add enzymes to food to help it digest easier and for overall vitality. We alternate between Mercola, Animal Essentials and Peter Tobias.

Standard Process Whole Body Canine Support is another multi I would like to add to the rotation at some point.

For stomach issues we found our pups do best with the freeze dried food to which we add water. We rotate foods as well to keep it varied, healthy and interesting.

Good luck.

[DogFoodie]

Hi Craig,

Have you been giving your dog some sort of multi-vitamin supplement since you acquired him?

I have to say, the diet you posted in your other thread concerns me quite a bit, but I’ll post my thoughts there.

If you’re feeding a complete and balanced diet, you don’t really need a multi-vitamin. Some folks like to add whole foods as supplements such as: lean, unseasoned meats from your dinner; pureed dark leafy greens; eggs, either raw or lightly cooked; some cottage cheese; kefir; etc. These are mostly considered toppers. You could also add a fish oil supplement, preferable salmon or krill.

[anonymously]

I no longer use a lot of supplements. I do add a fish oil capsule once a day to meals, I add water to the food, especially a senior male small breed, as they are vulnerable to developing bladder stones, UTIs, take out frequently to urinate….at least every 4 hours.
Exercise/long walks as tolerated.
If you are feeding a decent diet, they don’t need multi-vits….unless your vet has recommended such. The liver has to detoxify all this stuff.
I’m just sharing what I have learned over the years.
BTW: shih-tzu’s have lousy teeth, if the vet that examines your dog recommends a cleaning and extractions, I would get it done. Then daily brushings (see YouTube for how to videos) may help to prevent any more professional cleanings being needed.
My dogs do well on Nutrisca salmon and chickpea (canned and dry) as a base. I often add a tablespoon of cooked chicken or lean meat or scrambled egg…you get the idea.
http://skeptvet.com/Blog/?s=supplements

[Craig K]

I was wondering what is the highest recommended multi-vitamin and probiotic supplement I could give my 7 year old male Shih-Tzu?

Thanks for your help! 🙂

[anonymously]

My dog had both types of stones (struvite and calcium oxalate). I would give no supplements unless approved by the vet that has examined your dog and is treating him.
You could make the situation worse.

It takes weeks (sometimes 2-3 months) to see a change in PH after diet changes and increased water added to the diet, so testing PH at home is not accurate. Just go by what the veterinarian recommends
/forums/search/bladder+stones/.

[Elena B]

Hello crazy4cats-

Thank you for your reply. She was on metronidazole for 10 days and thats what helped. I actually have the Perfect Form supplement and it didn’t make a difference for my puppy. 🙁
I will call me vet and see if we can specifically test for Giardia and Coccidia. I don’t think she was specifically tested for that if that is something that the vet does seperatly.

I’ll keep you updated.

[crazy4cats]

Hi Elena B-
Sorry about the troubles with your pups’ digestion. My pups started out with the same issue. It was very stressful. I switched foods several times as well only to find out that they had Giardia and Coccidia. Has your vet sent a sample out to a lab and specifically tested for either of those? They are both pretty common in puppies. Sometimes it is hard to detect as they shed the parasites intermittently.

Was it metronidazole that they were on that helped? It’s an antibiotic that is often given in combination with panacur to get rid of parasites. Supplements with slippery elm also helped my dogs tummies. Check out http://www.dogaware.com and click on the digestive disorders tab. There is so much helpful info on that site. One of my favorite supplements is Perfect Form made by The Honest Kitchen.

Of course, none of this info helps if it is a food allergy. Sorry, I don’t have any experience with that issue, thank goodness. But there are a couple of others that frequently post on this forum who might be able to help. There is a site that helps create home made diets called balanceit.com, if you are interested. Good luck to you. Please report how your pup,is doing!

• This reply was modified 9 years, 11 months ago by crazy4cats.

[Kristin S]

Has anyone heard about this supplement? What do you think?

[Crow M]

Congratulations on your new family member!

I went through the same ordeal last year with a very elderly and underweight rescue; how to put on weight safely, finding the balance between feeding him enough but not too much, so that his weight gain wasn’t too quick and his system wasn’t overwhelmed with too many fats.

I second the advice above – if at all possible, feed him 3 or 4 small meals a day instead of 1 or 2 big ones. I fed a good-quality puppy food mixed with a good-quality adult food* starting with a 3:1 ratio. As he came close to his target weight, I gradually changed the ratio to 2:2, then 1:3, and then finally all adult food.

Supplements: don’t over-do it. I’d give him probiotics and maybe a joint med, but really, good food is going to wonders all by itself.

*Earthborn Holistics Puppy Vantage, Earthborn Holistics Great Plains Feast, Earthborn Holistics Large Breed (all dry); Wellness Complete/Core Puppy, Wellness Complete Senior and Canidae Large Breed (all canned). I mix up what I feed my dogs; variety is a good thing.

[anonymously]

I would be more worried about the dog surviving the heartworm treatment, that is a priority.
Otherwise I would go by your vet’s suggestion, maybe a high quality puppy food (canned and dry). I might add a tablespoon of chopped cooked chicken or chopped cooked chicken liver, add a little water to meals. I might feed 3-4 small meals per day instead of 2 regular ones. I would not add any supplements unless your vet advises so, just more junk for the liver to deal with. I would not give raw food to an old sick dog.
You don’t want rapid weight gain, too stressful, just a gradual increase.
Also, see what your vet advises regarding the flea allergy, frequent baths? Be careful about vaccinations and pesticides with a senior dog like this….
Walks/activity as tolerated, keep him moving.

[anonymously]

I don’t know, are they concerned about bladder stones?
“Phosphates are used as dietary supplements for patients who are unable to get enough phosphorus in their regular diet, usually because of certain illnesses or diseases”.
“Phosphate is the drug form (salt) of phosphorus. Some phosphates are used to make the urine more acid, which helps treat certain urinary tract infections. Some phosphates are used to prevent the formation of calcium stones in the urinary tract”.

Just a guess…. You could ask your traditional vet for his opinion, leave a message for him to call you back when he has a minute, just to ask him a quick question.

You may find that homeopathic vets and traditional vets often don’t agree on treatment modalities. Then you will have to decide which one you want to believe.

[Howard J]

Hi!
She is starting to feel a lot better. Her stools are formed although they still are slightly yellow and mucusy. We brought her to a homeopathic vet and nutritionist today, she said she likely suffered from acute pancreatitis from the blood works and symptoms that we gave her. She also said she has symptoms for textbook Cushing’s disease and our other vet, thought this could be the case as well. She said to feed her chicken and rice for a few more days and she will help guide in the right direction regarding diet. She gave us PMG pancreatrophin, Paraplex and Enteric all whole food supplements. Here hormones are out of whack and she believed it stems from her pituitary gland.

[3pupmom]

So had another recheck today. No calcium oxalate crystals. He’s back to struvites. No UTI. No infection so they’re sterile stuvites. Stopping all supplements and putting him on Purina Pro Plan UR which has a s/o profile like Royal Canin. He won’t eat water soaked kibble. Is also picky abt kibble soaked in unsalted chicken stock. He goes out to urinate every 2-3 hours. There is fresh water everywhere. Let’s see how his next follow up goes. Paws crossed.

[Howard J]

Thank you so much. I’m going to bring her in to see a nutritionalist vet on Monday. Her poop is still watery and yellow. I’m also going to try the Honest Kitchen dog food and see if that works for her. I’ll give her mashed sweet potato and chicken breast tonight. If I were to give her cooked food I would have to supplement with amino acids and vitamins. DigestaVite Plus 100g looks great and will probably help put good bacteria back in her system. However, I don’t know where to buy it? The site doesn’t have a checkout and I looked on amazon and it said it would ship between january 5-February 8, which is a long time from now. It’s obviously not an American company.

What fruit and veggies do you recommend? I know that they most likely have to be pureed or boiled for easy digestion. I just don’t want to overwork her pancreas that’s why I want to give her pancreatic enzymes, they are just expensive.

• This reply was modified 10 years ago by Howard J.

[aimee]

Hi crazy4cats,

I’d agree that if the diet is formulated to meet AAFCO then levels shouldn’t be toxic. Primal makes products that are formulated to meet and others that are for supplemental feeding.

Excessive nutrients was the only reason I could think of as to why the OP vet was “horrified”.

[April F]

Thank you everyone so much! Yes, this year has been rather difficult, to put a very long story short I was supposed to be moving last December so I had saved up $2000 for moving and for emergency money until I got a job. In January my 4 year old chihuahua was taken to the vet because he was shaking and wouldn’t move. The next time he was x-rayed and diagnosed with IVDD he’s now on anti inflammatory and pain medicine as he needs it. My oldest girl was taken in because she couldn’t stand up and was diagnosed with arthritis and put on medication for a short time. It’s been like that off and on all year so my $2000 is now down to $118. Rein has already had one infection and was on antibiotics for that. I’ve been selling everything I can and since I was supposed to be moving still I haven’t had a job. Now that I’m looking again I can’t seem to get hired so care credit is off the table I’ve been staying with my mom and she was denied for care credit also. I’ve kept a very close eye on Rein’s urinating she doesn’t seem to strain we have 4 bowls of water through the house and one outside. I’m going to set an alarm over night to get up and take her outside if she will go. She’s always held her pee for abnormal amounts of time until she absolutely has to go and I’ve never been sure why. I’ve started a gofundme page but being around the holidays my brother has been the only one to donate. I’ve just asked everyone else to send the link around and put it on their facebook pages. I was going to put the link in the pets section of Craigslist but apparently that’s banned. I’m waiting for a call back on her latest culture sensitivity test I should get the results today or tomorrow. I’ve informed my vet about my financial situation and they said if I could pay $1000 up front than they would set up a payment plan for the rest. I am in the process of reading through the link and looking at the food and the supplement. I do have a toothbrush that I use for them (she is by far the easiest one to get her teeth brushed) so if switching to a wet food will be better for her than that’s fine with me.

[Jenn H]

Wysong also has a supplement called Biotic pH-. It’s for this kind of problem. With any luck and diet changes maybe you can avoid surgery all together.

[anonymously]

Per the search engine at this site, a lot of information here. I think you will find answers to your questions.
/forums/search/bladder+stones/

Most veterinary clinics have payment plans/credit arrangements you can apply for. If she needs surgery she must be uncomfortable, stones are painful. I wouldn’t postpone. I would get that done first, per recommendation of the vet.

Oh, and dry food doesn’t really do anything for the teeth. Brush the teeth every evening, I use a medium adult brush and Petrodex tooth paste, see YouTube for how to videos.
I have found daily brushing takes about 5 minutes and is very effective, scrub the sides and back and try to get the inside areas where the tartar and plaque tend to build up.

Post surgery: As you can see by using the search engine (bladder stones) and checking the various posts and threads at this site. The most important thing you can do is increase water intake, add water to all meals, 3 or 4 small meals per day instead of 1 or 2.
Offer frequent bathroom breaks, opportunities to urinate, observe for normal flow/amount/stream. Keep the bladder flushed to avoid stagnant conditions conductive to stone formation.
Otherwise I would defer to your vet regarding diet and supplement choices, at least till the dog has been stable for a while….then discuss changes with the vet.
Some types of bladder stones tend to recur, there is a genetic component to consider.

PS: Wysong has a prescription food, ask your vet if it would be appropriate….if you like the ingredients better http://www.wysong.net/veterinarian/

[anonymously]

What does a prescription food have to do with his age? I don’t understand.
Ask your vet, but I believe a medical condition takes priority. Just add a little cooked chopped up chicken breast to it (for example) if you want more protein.

Supplements, if they do anything at all, depend on the type of stones your dog is making.
I give my dog this item, but I have cut down to only 2 tabs a day. I am not sure it does anything, but I keep giving it just in case it is helping….his struvite cleared up after antibiotics and increase in water, calcium oxalate stones are a different story (genetic).
K-Plus™ Potassium Citrate Plus Cranberry

[Sunny-Saje]

I am in a very different situation with ToW. Where I am living overseas now it is, when I can get it, the best dog food based on DFA reviews. I have an unusual breed not seen much in the US. He is a Blue Picardy Spaniel. The other choice of dog food, sold here without prescription is, Hills Science Diet Active Adult. My dog is 3 years old. I supplement his dog food with vegetables and prepare a stew from a book a friend gave me, The Whole Pet Diet (Andi Brown).

My concerns about US dog foods sold here, is are they the same formula as that sold in the States. I have not yet written to ToW, because until yesterday, I hadn’t seen their product for months. I bought 3 30lb. bags (Wetlands, Sierra, Pacific-only one bag of each was all that was available.) I wanted to check here first about that issue and also, a combining issue.

I try as much as possible to not radically switch between dog food brands, gradually introducing the new one in increasing proportions. I have two huge containers to store the food in so it doesn’t become infested with bugs or any effects from exposure to air. So now, I am wondering, to ease in storage, is there any reason why I can’t mix all three varieties of ToW as I begin transitioning away from HSD? The ingredient lists after the flavoring differences, are basically the same.

Finally, regarding the food I use to supplement, vegies and the chicken stew, are there other ingredients or other recipes I should add in to balance the ToW?

Thanks for any input!

[MAUREEN W]

The dog had surgery 2 weeks ago to remove the stones so she is doing wonderful now. The dog was on poor cheap dry food only & locked outside for several hours at a time all summer so Im pretty sure poor diet & likely not enough water was the main cause for this. Of course I want to avoid it at all again & why i am looking for help but I dont believe for a minute prescription dog food is the answer, (have you read the label on that stuff), nothing of nutritional value in it at all in my opinion. The cost of the food is not a concern, grain free & healthy diet are what i look at for my pets. She is drinking water all day & pees alot too so just want to do whats best.
I take one of my dogs to get acupuncture & last thing she says to do is Royal Canine or the rest of the prescription foods. Im not one to take meds myself unless its vitamins& supplements & want to avoid that in dogs too. I am only used to giant breed dogs & having 3 Saint Bernards & 2 lived to almost 12 & 13 & one i have still is 11. I feel I have done something right in their health & well being to live that long. I like to research everything & glad i came across this form. I appreciate all the help & concerns. I have only her best interest at heart. I plan on getting her regular xrays to make sure shes not getting stones again. but hoped to be able to do something daily to help prevent. Maybe someone reading this had the same problem & found a good answer. Ive been told by several people whos dog had stones, to feed wet food mainly in which I have done since rescued her. Thanks

[Jenn H]

You may have luck with Biotic pH-. It’s a supplement for dogs with this condition by Wysong.
I have used their Innoculant and it was a miracle. My friend is using the one for teeth/oral health. Her dogs love the stuff, but it’s too soon to tell if it’s working yet.
I’ll admit I do have a bias to this brand. I’ve had a lot of luck with the products I’ve used from them and their customer service has been wonderful. They answer questions quickly and thoroughly and their suggestions have worked out well.

[Jenn H]

I just contacted a company that was suggested to me by an alternative caregiver of the horses at my barn. It’s called Herbs for Life and they have organic pet supplements. I’m hoping they will be suggesting something for GI problems and the issues my baby girl has been having.
Another thing I wanted to suggest you try is something from Wysong called Innoculant. That’s a great probiotics. I have Wysong in my food rotation and love it. I’m about to transition my girl to Fundamentals for a while.

• This reply was modified 10 years ago by Jenn H. Reason: Suggested a different supplement

[anonymously]

BTW: I had several water dishes available too.
The dog in question never goes near them. But, pouring water over his food works, he has to drink it to get to the food. It has made a BIG difference. No recurrences in 4 years.
Frequent bathroom breaks, also.
If the dog’s condition is serious, there are prescription meds that might be helpful. I wouldn’t bother with any supplements, unless the veterinarian treating your dog advises differently.
Consider seeing a Veterinary Internal Specialist, if you are not seeing results with the current treatment.

[crazy4cats]

Hi Maureen-
Sorry to hear about the return of crystals in your pup. Sounds like you are doing a great job of making sure she is getting plenty of water and bathroom breaks. However, I caution the use of too many supplements without vet knowledge. Both DL-Methionine and cranberry supplements can alter the pH of her urine. You could over acidify and cause oxalate crystals instead.
I would feed the Royal Canin until the issue is cleared up and then go from there. Good luck!

[MAUREEN W]

I just rescued a little 8lb Shih tzu Bichon who is 6 years old. She was having so many problems & I needed to get her help & surgery right away. tests shown she had several bladder stones & some much larger than others so surgery was her only option after meds not helping. She is now a VERY HAPPY fun little girl & loving live after getting the care needed.
However results just came back from the stones being Struvite & vet wants to put her on Royal Canine SO.!! Im not going to do that, Ive seen so many clients dogs on this crap & there is noting good in it. I feed all my dogs good quality food & believe doing that will help her more than anything.
Ive been giving her canned food since I rescued her & some boiled chicken with the broth & even veg & I do add a probiotic powder to her food. What are the best veg for her & what do i stay away from. I also bought a powder called Methionine by Dogzymes where i buy my pet probiotics from along with joint supplements. It says regulates the formation of amonia & creates amonia free urine which reduces bladder irritation. I also add fish oil to dogs diet each day. Should I add a cranberry supplement too & what is best kind. I want to do what is best for the little girl but I know that is not Royal Canine food. Any help would be great. Im also going to order PH strips too. I have water supply in every room for her & even bought her a fountain to help her drink more. I have 2 giant dogs so used to them drinking gallons of water, this tiny girl, I dont know what amount she should drink & what to to to make her drink more. She gets Plenty of potty breaks & I put her potty pads down if i need to be gone so she knows it ok to go on them & not hold it. (she uses them too) 🙂
Any help would be greatful, I dont want this little girl to suffer again the way she was when I took her in to get her surgery & help she needed.
Thanks so much. Mo

[anonymously]

Just reread your post. Please listen to your vet. Antibiotics are important. You have to clear up the infection. Supplements are not medication.

[anonymously]

I would ask your vet for a referral to an Internal Medicine Specialist. If he thinks this would be helpful.
Remember, food and supplements are not medication or treatment.
If your dog’s condition is serious, there are prescription meds that might be helpful, talk to your vet.

[anonymously]

There is NO magic supplement. The trick is to add water to each meal 3-4 small meals per day soaked in water, don’t measure, just fill the small bowl, the dog will lap it up to get to the food.
The dog must be taken out to void (pee) ideally every 2 hours during the day. At bedtime and first thing in the morning. Stagnant conditions in the bladder are conducive to stone formation.
There is nothing wrong with Royal Canin SO. If you get the dry, soak it in water overnight then add water too. Once the dog is stable, few months to a year, you can talk to your vet about adding something tasty to the prescription food, like cooked chopped up chicken breast or some other lean meat.
Did you check the search engine here /forums/search/bladder+stones/
I don’t necessarily agree with all of the opinions expressed.
Some info at this site you may find helpful http://skeptvet.com/Blog/?s=bladder+stones

[3pupmom]

Good afternoon. My apologies for the length of this post. My Miniature Schnauzer Ninja was dx w/struvite crystals in Sept. I took him to vet to get some Metro for his yucky diarrhea & it turns out he had a raging UTI, his liver function was out of whack plus pancreatitis all at once. He was hospitalized for 2days, xrays showed no stones and he came home w/antibiotics. I think clavamox. 1 month later at his recheck, ph was 7 still has struvites in his urine plus some rbc/wbc but no infection (vet did a culture). 2nd recheck in Nov ph was 5.5, no struvites, but now he has calcium oxalate crystals. In Sept, before the hospitalization, Ninja was on Canidae All Stages only. When he came home I started him on THK Halcyon, the duck formulation, with a little of the Canidae. After the Oct followup I started him on VetriScience UT strength supplements which contains D-Mannose & Cranberry Extract and switched the kibble to Nature’s Domain Turkey. I was going to add Vitamin C supplements but now after the Nov followup with his urinary ph being 5.5 my vet said not to. I’ve now completely cut kibble out of his diet & he’s on 1/3cup THK only with 3/4cup water to rehydrate twice per day. I give him a 1/2 cup of unsalted broth (23mg sodium) mid-day and there’s plenty of fresh/clean water throughout the house which he barely touches. I’m putting a little bit of white rice in his food/broth to entice him to eat/drink. 2weeks ago I switched from the VetriScience UT Strength to UT Stat. He goes back for another recheck on 12/18. He’s 5years old & this has never been an issue before. Since Sept the vet has been suggesting Royal Canin SO. It’s garbage food & I’d rather not feed that. I’m at a loss at this point. Any suggestions on a different supplement?

[Z B]

Up until a few months ago HEB carried a grain free canned store brand called DaLeash, rated 5 star here on DFA:
/dog-food-reviews/daleash-dog-food/

DaLeash Chicken & Veggies CANNED:
Ingredients: Chicken, beef broth, chicken broth, liver, beef, dried egg whites, dried egg product, potatoes, potato starch, carrots, peas, natural flavor, flaxseed meal, dried beet pulp, salt, guar gum, sodium phosphate, potassium chloride, sodium carbonate, vitamins (vitamin E supplement, thiamine mononitrate, niacin supplement, d-calcium pantothenate, vitamin A supplement, riboflavin supplement, biotin, vitamin B12 supplement, pyridoxine hydrochloride, vitamin D3 supplement, folic acid), minerals (ferrous sulfate, zinc oxide, copper proteinate, sodium selenite, manganese sulfate, potassium iodide), choline chloride

When DaLeash was discontinued, Heritage Ranch showed up on the shelves at HEB. Seems pretty much the same recipe:

Heritage Ranch Chicken and Veggies CANNED
Ingredients: Chicken, Chicken Broth, Beef Broth, Chicken Liver, Dried Egg Whites, Potato Starch, Dried Egg Product, Carrots, Peas, Natural Flavor, Flaxseed Meal, Dried Beet Pulp, Salt, Guar Gum, Sodium Phosphate, Potassium Chloride, Sodium Carbonate, Vitamins (Vitamin E Supplement, Thiamine Mononitrate, Niacin Supplement, D‑Calcium Pantothenate, Vitamin A Supplement, Riboflavin Supplement, Biotin, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Folic Acid), Minerals (Ferrous Sulfate, Zinc Oxide Copper Proteinate, Sodium Selenite, Manganese Sulfate, Potassium Iodide), Choline Chloride.

I used DaLeash regularly in my rotation until it was discontinued, now using Heritage Ranch. Canned versions only, so I can’t comment on the dry. The price is good at $1 a can, less if you buy the 12 pack. No complaints here. I feed a combo of homemade and rotate affordable canned foods like this one, Pure Balance and 4Health.

• This reply was modified 10 years ago by Z B.

[Dori]

Hi Karen, Personally I also disagree with the advice given to you from Anonymously regarding the addition of glucosamine and chondroitin for the exact reasons that Pitlove has stated. There is not enough glucosamine and chondroitin in any food to be of any real relief for arthritic issues. Yes the ones they say contain it do but not enough and also a lot is burned off when the kibble is made. As Pitlove suggested, you can run it passed your vet but I personally would continue to give your dog the supplements.

[Pitlove]

Hi Karen- Personally I disagree with Anonymously on that advice. While its nice that foods contain glucosamine and chondroitin, they don’t contain a theraputic amount. Especially if you have a senior dog that is showing signs of stiff joints. The only time I’ve ever heard of additional supplements causing any of the problems that Anonymously mentioned is when they were overfed. You can certainly still double check with your vet, but most of these supplements are safe to feed along with a food that contains glucosamine and chondroitin.

[anonymously]

I personally would not add any supplements to this dog’s food unless a veterinarian that has examined the dog recommends it.

For example: Some supplements can increase the tendency for bladder stones to develop, especially with older dogs that are sedentary and don’t drink enough water.

More info here: http://skeptvet.com/Blog/?s=glucosamine

[Karen D]

Thanks to this forum I am happy with this new food & so is Pnut, no more messy poops, I noticed this food contains Glucosamine & Chondroitin, should I stop giving her the chewable joint supplements or cut back?
Thanks,
Karen

[anonymously]

In my opinion, the first thing to do would be to get a diagnosis by a veterinarian. I would do this before trying home remedies.

It is best not to give over the counter medications and supplements (especially if they are intended for humans) unless recommended by a veterinarian that has examined your dog.
These products are not always benign and may make the situation worse.
If your current vet has not been helpful, find another one.

How can you treat a condition if you don’t even know what it is?

[anonymously]

It is always best not to give a dog any supplements or over the counter medications to a dog, unless prescribed by a veterinarian that has examined the dog.
BTW: Benadryl is a antihistamine. Every dog is different, these things can have side effects.
Only a Dr can diagnose and prescribe.
It sounds like you have had x-rays done and already consulted a specialist…if not, it may be time for a second opinion.

[crazy4cats]

Hi Suzanne-
While Purina puppy chow may not be the best food, it’s hard to say that it may be contributing to your dog’s condition. It is one of Purina’s cheapest foods. They have other lines that are rated higher such as Pro Plan and Beyond. I don’t know if there is a puppy recipe in either of those lines though. I have not fed either of them.

I am more concerned about your dog’s symptoms though. Is she still displaying them? It is very important in my opinion, that you figure out WHY she has the crystals and protein in her urine. If she is having a hard time urinating, she could end up with a blockage. I think you should have the recommended tests. If and when she has another urinalysis, please mention that you have been giving the berry supplement. It could skew your pup’s pH and it would be beneficial for the vet to have this information.

I do, however, disagree with your vet that dry food is better at this time. Keep adding water to it. Even soaking it in fridge might be helpful. I didn’t want to scare you earlier, but now that I hear your pup’s symptoms, I’m even more concerned. My cat had the exact same symptoms, so I started adding cosequin to his food, bought a water fountain and fed more canned food. He still ended up with a blockage and spent four days in an emergency vet hospital who gave him a 50% chance of survival. He had damage to his bladder from being so stretched out. I wish I would have had the ultra sound! The visit cost thousands of dollars, but, he’s still here! Maybe you can avoid that if you are able to find the cause of her crystals by having more tests. I don’t have any idea about the protein in her urine though. Maybe someone else can pop in with some information on that.

I have some links that may be helpful when I have time to get to my desk top computer today. I hope the best for you and your pup!

• This reply was modified 10 years ago by crazy4cats.

[Sherri P]

Hi, God Bless Everyone,

My Lab Tank Drake, likes these bones. He is a very sensitive doggy & everything seems to upset his tummy. The vet recommended this, so My husband & I started buying him Grain Free dog food by Rachel Ray which has helped him tremendously & this DreamBone which is rawhide free, cause our boy tank cannot eat rawhide either, without vomiting all over the place. I have read a lot of your comments & I am posting what the ingredients are in this: which I am copying right off the bag. DreamBone- (Dino chews) Grain Free, Gluten Free, Sugar Free, Helps maintain healthy teeth & gums, natural added vitamins…. Sweet potato, flour, pea flour, chicken, vegetable glycerin oil, dried brewers yeast, calcium carbonate, peanut butter, fish oil, dried kelp source of chlorophyll, dried tomato, calcium ascorbate source of vitamin c, vitamin e supplement, rosemary extract. Plus no GMO’s. All I can say Tank hasn’t vomited up by eating them. Which makes Dad & Mom Happy & Doggy Happy too 🙂

[Bobby dog]

Hi Chris S:
I agree, this diet as written is not complete. I feed a kibble based diet along with commercial raw, canned, and homemade meals. Variety works well for my dog and most of my cats; sometimes it doesn’t for some.

If you are interested in making some or all homemade meals I purchased this download written by Dr. Susan Lauten a few months back that has grain free and grain inclusive recipes for healthy adult dog maintenance that are balanced to both AAFCO requirements and NRC recommendations. The supplements to make the recipes balanced can be found on the Internet or in drug and health food stores:
http://petnutritionconsulting.com/susan-lauten-phd/
http://backtobasicspetcare.com/

[Kelle J]

Molzy, my Cavalier King Charles has the same symptoms. After multiple tries with different Chinese herbs, acupuncture, dietary changes, etc. we finally took her to a specialist who scoped her throat and bronchials. (While in there he took photos that he later showed us.) It turned out that her left bronchial is 95% collapsed and her right bronchial is 75% collapsed. (She’s never worn a collar when walked, just a soft harness. The doctor believes it is genetic.) At the same time he removed a small amount of excess palette tissue that was touching the back of her throat. The collapses are after the bronchial tubes split so she is not a candidate for surgery. My husband did some research and we have her on some good supplements designed to rebuild cartilage which has helped quite a bit. (She used gulp/panic/eat grass several times a day and night. Now she has an episode once every couple of days.) When it happens, I find that if I open her mouth (which she actually comes to me to do), stick my finger toward the back of her tongue and then gently pull her tongue forward, they’ll be a soft popping/suction-release sound and she’ll feel better. Occasionally this doesn’t work, so when that happens I just let her go outside and eat a bit of grass so she can throw up and clear her lungs. We’re planning to take her back to the vets soon to have her re-scoped so we can see if the supplements have arrested the collapse and possibly rebuilt them in some way. If you’re interested, I’ll let you know the results. Good luck–your pup is lucky to have you.

[CockalierMom]

I have previous experience with a heart murmur and suggest that if you are wanting to educate yourself, you need to understand how the pharmaceutical meds will help before ruling them out. Ask your vet for the names of the medications and then do your own research on the meds without relying on what the vet says. I think you will find these meds will help her heart function and make her breathing easier. The meds really helped my girl for several years. With all the information on the internet now, there is never any reason to do just what the vet tells you without researching it first and understanding what you are dealing with.

I researched a number of supplements, herbs, and amino acids after my girl progressed from grade 1 to 2. If you want to give supplements, find a holistic vet to consult with, if you cannot drive to one. I am a firm believer in holistic medicine, but cannot recommend just using a holistic approach for a murmur that has progressed to a grade 3/4.

[jamie h]

My 7 year-old girl (rescue so it’s really a guess),Twiggy, has a grade 3/4 heart murmur and I don’t want to put her on pharmaceutical meds. Anyone suggest a good mix of supplements? She has been on a raw diet before, but switched to kibble/canned mix for financial reasons, but would be willing to do it again, if that’s best. Also, I didn’t have to think about health conditions before. I was looking at Swanson’s raw heart pills, but wondering what else I should do. I also noticed a bit of harsh breathing, but it could be from the murmur? Thank you for your time!

• This topic was modified 10 years ago by jamie h.

[anonymously]

Do you mean AST? I think you may be referring to one of the LFTs (liver function tests)

Anyway, that is why I like allergen specific immunotherapy, it’s all natural, in fact, it is not medication.
Medications and supplements have to be detoxed by the liver, that can result in elevations.
PS: A slight elevation (temporary) could have been caused by the antibiotics or atopica.

• This reply was modified 10 years ago by anonymously.

[anonymously]

“The holistic vet decided to put her on chinese herbs and supplements. We are also doing acupuncture weekly (for now)”.

Masticatory Muscle Myositis is a very serious condition, if it was my dog, I would be inclined to take a much more aggressive approach based on conventional medicine. Prednisone can be a very effective medication when used under the supervision of a specialist.
Sometimes steroids are necessary…..