[Emilia Foster]

Hey! Fish oil is a really good place to start, especially for skin, coat, and general wellness. Totally get you on the picky-vitamin problem — my dog used to spit out every tablet no matter how well I hid it.

What helped was switching to softer, more treat-like supplements or liquids instead of hard pills. You can check out InnovetPet since they make oils and chews that a lot of dogs seem to accept more easily.

For basics, most people start with fish oil, a simple multivitamin, and something for joint support if the dog is active. Hopefully you find something your Husky Lab actually likes.

[voldemar leo]

Love that you’re doing thorough research — our pets deserve the best! For my dog, I mainly focus on supplements that support joint health and skin/coat because he’s an active pup and sometimes gets itchy during seasonal changes. I also tend to use supplements year-round, but I adjust the dosage if the vet recommends it.
And since we dog parents often care about hygiene and comfort too, I recently came across these butterfly scrub caps designed for pet lovers and veterinary staff — super cute and practical if you spend time at the vet clinic or groomer.
As for discounts, I usually check the brand’s website or sign up for newsletters — they often send coupon codes to subscribers.
Thanks again for starting this helpful discussion — always great to learn from other pet owners!

[fnf gopro]

I’m new to this topic but totally agree with making sure pets get the best nutrition. It’s so important to choose supplements that are tailored to your dog’s needs, whether for joints, skin, or overall health. I’d love to learn more about how different diets and supplements work together for long-term wellness!

[Lisa Smith]

Hey, I had a similar issue. I’m posting this because I had to do some research myself, too.

Glucosamine can definitely help support dogs with joint pain, especially as they get older or if they’re large-breed or highly active. It’s often paired with chondroitin and omega-3 fatty acids, which can help reduce inflammation and keep joints lubricated.

That said, supplements work best when combined with a balanced, fresh diet that supports joint health naturally. If your dog’s pain is ongoing, it’s always a good idea to check with your vet first to make sure there aren’t underlying issues like arthritis or injury.

If you’re looking for a gentle, natural option, Raw & Fresh has a line of joint and mobility supplements made for dogs with joint stiffness or age-related pain: Natural Pet Supplements

They’re designed to work alongside real food, not replace it. A lot of pet owners find this approach helps their dogs move more freely over time.

[Lisa Smith]

Hey there, I haven’t used them myself, but I saw that Raw and Fresh (whom I do use for their delivered dog food) has pet supplements now, too.
They seem to have great reviews and trust the brand, would be something I’d give a go for my doggo if I needed some supplements, respect the brand in AUS a lot- Natural Pet Supplements

[George Lawson]

I haven’t used that exact Earth Animal treat, but Many dogs relax better with the combo of mild calming support plus a frozen chew/lick that redirects energy and promotes calm behavior.

What’s worked best for many pups is pairing any supplement with enrichment. Freezbone, a refillable, freezable, lick toy, keeps them busy and helps them settle. If you try it, also give some frozen enrichment during the stress window.

[Bryan T]

When our shepherd started having problems — constant wolfish appetite, but not gaining weight — the vets were at a loss. The tests were normal, but no one could give a definitive diagnosis. We tried a bunch of foods, supplements, feeding schemes, but the result was zero. In desperation, I started looking for information on forums and came across https://www.workingdogforum.com/ On the forum, I found a topic with similar symptoms — and several experienced owners and dog handlers immediately said that their dogs had similar problems associated, for example, with enzyme deficiency or parasites, which are not always detected by standard methods. Thanks to their advice, we reviewed the diet, added digestive enzymes, and after a couple of weeks, the dog’s condition began to improve.

[Jerome Murphy]

I think when you cook boneless chicken, the calcium is missing. Options:
– Crushed eggshell powder (½ tsp per pound of food)
– Bone meal supplement
– Or use raw meaty bones if you’re experienced with raw feeding
Chicken is omega-6 heavy; dogs need omega-3s for balance.
– Fish oil capsules (1,000mg per 30–40 lbs of body weight daily)
– Or canned sardines in water (no salt) once or twice a week

[Leslie K]

Has anyone tried this supplement -with success? My dog suffers from seasonal environmental allergies. He’s currently treated with prescribed medication as well as topical skin treatments. This product claims to help skin issues and allows you to eliminate medications such as Apoquel and topicals. Also, wondering if there are any side effects of taking this multivitamin. Thank you!

[Florentina V]

@bgshacklett yes, actually we gave up the inhaler and together with my vet we opted to give her prednisolone (pill) every time she starts having a gulping crisis. Also, if she also starts to lick excessively, I add a gastric supplement, too (in my case, a gel-syrup we have called VetGastril). This always works and I make sure to have these pills available. Sometimes she can go for months without having any issues, then the episodes come back and she has one every month for some time. I did notice them to be more frequent in cold weather than in the summer months. Also, this winter season they have become more frequent and I don’t know if it’s age related (she’s 12) or the fact that I had to change her food, as she had some bladder stones removed and we need to make sure they won’t form again. My vet said that if the stomach is upset or more acidic, it will cause inflammation in the esophagus and trigger a new gulp crisis. So this is also an important part to manage in order to keep the disease under control. Maybe your girl has an upset stomach from the heartworm prevention and it triggers an inflammation in the esophagus. I personally use a Foresto collar for her and change it every 6 months, prior to the recommended 8 months. Simparica was very strong for her and would cause her to vomit. I’ve been using Foresto for years now and never had problems. Related to the disease, unfortunately my vet also said there is still no new information about this diagnosis. The only good news he could give me is that it seems research has found no link between follicular esophagitis and cancer, as this was an important concern. I always tell him to keep me updated if new information is found. Good luck, everyone!

[crazy4cats]

I have two 13 1/2 lab mix “pups”. They are litter mates in very good condition for their age. I have been feeding them Purina One Vibrant Maturity dry food along with a dollup of canned food. They also get some fish oil and a GlycoFlex supplement daily. One of them is on carprofen due to some stiff joints. They are doing great!
I wouldn’t add any vitamins or minerals to a diet that is already considered complete and balanced. It could potentially throw things out of whack!
Good luck to you. It really stinks that they get old so young.

[A. Hoff]

Hello,

I have two siblings, altered female & male just turned 11. About a year or so ago I started realizing ‘wow they’re senior dogs I can’t believe that statistics say I likely have only a few years left’ and so I started trying to modify their diet to make it more healthful as I really would love for them to be around for way longer than average. We know their mom was a border collie. We believe their dad was likely a Lab mixed with something else my guess is Burmese Mtn. Dog but nobody knows. The female is 50 lbs & male is 60 lbs. The vet says they are basically at a good weight, he said just slightly chubby but nothing to be concerned about.. 6/10 where 5 is perfect.

For the longest time until they were about 9-10 years old my dog’s were fed the following divided among 2 meals (approx 7 am & 5 pm, I listed approx total daily intake)

1/2 cup kibble, Taste of Wild Pacific Stream (have used other brands/flavors like 4health/BlueBuff but have kept them on TOTW for proably at least 4-5 years and this one flavor for a while as they do well it seems) ~ 200 cal/day
1 can Blue Buffalo wet food (was using 4Health when they were real young but something happened and quality seemed to go down, there would be excessive fat and I switched)- alternate flavors mainly beef & chicken, salmon & chicken, turkey & chicken, and the ‘red meat dinner’ varieties but I’ve tried others like trout, etc. ~ 500 cal/day
1/2 – 1 egg ~ 35-70 cal/day
1/2 can unsalted green beans ~ 30 cal/day

Treats – would be a rotation of those “Milo’s chicken meatballs”, “Milo’s steak griller strips”, “Blue Buffalo baked biscuits (made w/ apple, bacon, etc. varieties), very rarely I would give them something lower quality like milkbones or pupperoni, etc. ~ 100 cal/day

Supplements – Cosequin/Dasuquin 1 tab per day since they were pups (had an older dog when they were pups they just all got one), PetHonesty 10-in-1 multivitamin & probiotic – 2 per day (they started getting this when they were about 3 or 4 because they would have somewhat frequent loose stools or incomplete digestion. It was weird they would take 2 poops on their morning walk, 1 would be perfect, the 2nd would come out 70% perfect and the last 30% would look like a slimy slug), I use “Missing Link” lightly for some extra fats and fiber. I started using this with a previous dog who would get itchy skin, it was recommended by the vet and seemed to do wonders for his coat so I have always sprinkled about 1/4 tsp on a meal at least 1x day.

Total ~900-1000 cal/day

What I started doing different..

I started feeding them 3x day. Same calories, I multiplied their meals by 2/3 and give them that around 7 am, 12:30 pm & 6 pm. I read it might be better for seniors and thought the 14-15 hours between their dinner and breakfast was maybe too long for them to fast.

I started adding more fruits and veggies – I take some carrots & fresh spinach and put them in a food processor and mince it up finely and give them about 1 tbsp per meal.

I started giving them bone broth, I get it boiling and then bathe the kibble and veggies in it and once it has cooled and the kibble has absorbed it and softened I mix the rest in. I also will add a few blueberries and mash them up whenever I have them, or sometimes a strawberry and put it in there.

I reduced the amount of wet food they get from 1 can/day – 1/2 can per day and substituted some real fat/protein that I make for myself (unseasoned). Mostly I use chicken leg quarters, ground beef, eggs, and salmon. I look up all the nutrition information and weight it all out so the calories should be the same as well as the protein:fat ratio should be very similar to the wet food.

I stopped giving them Milo’s & Blue Buffalo and other types of store bought treats almost entirely. I buy sweet potatoes and cut them up into little bite sized pieces (weighing about 0.25 oz each) and air fry them until they are cooked and soft. I also give them pieces of apples, bananas, pineapple, strawberries, or egg for some variety. Sweet potatoes are about 50-60% of what they get treated with and everything else I just named rounds out the rest largely apple or banana.

Supplements is all the same.

I’m just wondering if you think all the changes I made are positive changes or is there anything to be concerned with? Any recommendations for further improvement? They are very healthy for 11, only Rx they are on is my girl is on proin for incontinence for about 1.5 year and it controls it well.. I would say I feel I have noticed some improvement in their coat and energy and overall health but I don’t know if it’s just in my head.

I told the vet about the changes and they seemed to think it sounded good/fine but I don’t know they really listened to me or thought about it, surely it’s better than feeding them straight ol roy kibble like half the dogs they see..

Some things I read that maybe made me think to come and ask:

– Vitamin A in excess levels can be a problem for dogs? Could my dogs be getting too much from the spinach, carrots, & 10-in-1 vitatmin/probiotic?

– I read some warnings about giving them fatty meats and causing pancreatitis.. I assume everything is good with giving them a little chicken w/ skin or ground beef because the protein:fat ratio is roughly the same as dog food and it’s only about 70-80 cal/meal, 3x per day replacing the 1/2 can of wet food I removed with roughly the same ratios.. am I overthinking it?

[Bruce Graham]

Hi Judy.
Hope this will help, an article on this subject that I wrote recently.
Best wishes
Bruce

Best Supplements for Dogs with Joint Pain

[Judy R]

Does anyone have recommendations for hip and joint supplements?
Dr. Dobias suppolements? Prana Pets supplements?, NOW Pets supplements? Bark and Whiskers supplements? Others??? I want to use supplements but there are so many out there, and no way to be sure they are safe and effective.

[eva]

Generally speaking, nutritionally balanced dog food should provide your canine friend with all the necessary nutrients to ensure its optimal health. If you want to make your own dog food, you need to consider the combination of meat and vegetables and nutritional balance. In addition to feeding your dog protein such as chicken, you also need to feed vegetables to supplement vitamins. I hope some of this blogger’s blogs can help you.
https://www.greenagribio.com/newslist-1

[Melissa Francis]

Sorry if this is off subject, I’d like to start making dog food properly. I serve the dogs about 2 1/2 cups of homemade dog food. The recipe im trying to figure out is chicken veg. I have a (40% protein, 50% veg, and 10% startch) The protein is chicken, the veg is 3 part broccoli, 3 part carrot, and 1 part celery, and brown rice for starch. I boil the chicken, than use the chicken stock to blanch the vegetables, after I strain and use the stock to cook the rice. I always have a bowl of my dogs regular dry food available for the pups. I’m not confident enough I have a balanced meal, I’m interested in yalls input and suggestions, also any suggestions for any vitamin supplements I could add to the food that can withstand going through a pressure cooker. I’ll be making a liver dish, or something that involves red meat, maybe even fish. I want my dogs to eat good food, but I don’t want to miss anything to keep them healthy.

[David Carter]

For vitamin & mineral supplements, I think one should go for the Dorwest Dog Vitamins Range. Dorwest Wheatgerm Oil Capsules is a homeopathic option with necessary vitamins such as Vitamin E, A, D, and B and collagen production in dogs. There are many other options available in Dorwest homeopathic vitamins for dogs that are safe for them. You can have a look at PetCareClub- Pet Supplies Store Online to buy at an affordable rate.

[nathaniel reid]

I’m glad to hear that the new food is working well for Pnut! It’s great when we find something that makes our furry friends happier and healthier. As for the supplements, you might want to consult with your vet to determine if it’s appropriate to stop or reduce them based on Pnut’s specific needs, especially since the food already contains similar ingredients.

[Paul]

I should mention that I did try asking my vet about these and was basically told she wasn’t knowledgable on supplements.

[Paul]

My dog is sick with what is likely to be Cushing’s Disease, which is when a tumor grows against the pituitary gland, sending a signal to the adrenals to produce excess cortisol, a stress hormone, which causes a host of health issues over time. The first symptoms I noticed were increased thirst, urination, and hunger; she lost control of her bladder a couple times, and drinks and pees all day. I’ve been in and out of the vet since July and have spent over $2500 and still don’t have a firm diagnosis. I said from day one I suspected Cushing’s and the first vet told me “no way” because her bloodwork was normal. Well, sure enough after expensive blood, urine, and ultrasound testing, now they want to test for Cushing’s – another $500. The ultrasound showed her adrenals and liver were enlarged.

I’m a supplement fanatic and I take a lot for my own health and wellbeing. Now I want to put that knowledge to use with my dog, but have a few questions. If anyone here happens to have ANY insight (even if it’s only answering one of my questions), I’d greatly appreciate it.

1) I want to give her black seed oil. I know it can cause death in cancer cells and I think I read about it reducing tumors. I read the standard dose for a dog her size is a half teaspoon, but I would imagine it might vary depending on the thymoquinone content? Most black seed oils have low content. If I give her a black seed oil with 4-6% thymoquinone, should I adjust that at all, or will she benefit from higher concentrations of the compound? Would i be better off ordering a black seed oil that has 1-2% thymoquinone? I currently take a blend that is 10%, which is unusually high, but the averages tend to be 1-3%.

2) For turmeric curcumin… I read this actually helps to minimize / block the compound the brain releases that sends the signal to the adrenals to produce excess cortisol. do I need to buy a specific pet formula or could i literally open one of my human grade capsules and sprinkle it into her food? Is there any particular reason why I would need to give a pet formula or do they just sell it this way as a way to make extra money from people?

3) Same question for fish oil… I take a triple strength high EPA/DHA fish oil by a brand called Viva Naturals. One capsule contains 1250mg fish oil and of that, 1125 is omega 3’s (EPA/DHA). If I opened one capsule and poured it over her kibble, would that be OK, or should I be buying a pet-specific formulation? I’m already spending a fortune each month on my own supps, so wherever I’m able to “share” my supps with her, it would just be easier. I just purchased her Nordic Naturals Pet Formula but curious if I could just dissolve one of my capsules into her food.

4) I want to give her ashwagandha to help with the excess cortisol. This is an herb that lowers cortisol, and many humans use it to manage stress and anxiety. Again, same question as above — can I just give her one of my capsules I take or should I be looking for a special pet formula? I tried searching for a standalone ashwaganda formula for dogs and was unable to find one — it’s sold in a lot of immune blends, but I would rather have all the ingredients individually so I can precisely control dosages.

5) I’m giving her a pet specific formulation of broccoli sprout extract/sulforaphane called Avmaquin. No questions here really, other than to mention I’m providing it because I’ve read sulforaphane is anti-tumor and anti-cancer. So far, this and a pet-specific CBD formula by Lazarus Naturals are the only things I am giving her. I figured CBD might help with cortisol and inflammation.

I’m currently looking at the above mentioned supps (ashwagandha, turmeric, fish oil, black seed oil, sulforaphane, CBD) as well as COQ10 (ordered a pet formula, but again wondering if I can give her my human grade formula) and milk thistle.

Is there anything else you would recommend I look into for helping her? Any general advice or recommendations or things to consider here?

[nathaniel reid]

Hey there! Nutra Thrive sounds interesting, and I can see why you’d want to try it out for your dogs. It’s always great to find supplements that can contribute to their overall health and wellbeing. I haven’t personally used it yet, but I’ve heard positive things about the blend of ingredients. I’d love to hear from others who have tried it too! If anyone has experiences or tips, please share!

[nathaniel reid]

I’m really sorry to hear about your dog’s condition. It sounds like you’re doing everything you can to care for her. Given her age and the presence of multiple lipomas, it’s great that you’re considering supplements like L-carnitine, omega-3, and quercetin; these can sometimes help with inflammatory issues. Additionally, consulting with a veterinary oncologist could provide more tailored options for her care and potential treatments. Regular vet checkups are essential, especially to monitor the situation and adjust her treatment plan as needed. Remember, your love and support are incredibly important for her well-being during this challenging time. Wishing you both the best!

[Hazel willia]

Dogs also need supplements just like humans, they support their immune system, cardiovascular function, and their overall health. I prefer giving my pet supplements such as pure taurine, calcium paste for dogs, dog prenatal vitamins, and cat lysine supplements. These all work really well for my dog. But if you guys can suggest me some more supplements then please help me out.

[jetski racer]

New member here but have been reading reviews since finding DFA in 2012. Have a new to me furbaby a month ago, my vet said mix breed, short haired, ~45lbs, 16 months old, adopted from a family who could no longer keep him (they reported adopting from shelter when he was 2 months and were told he is lab and rhodesian ridgeback mix). Just looking for some info on these commercially avail chews from tractor supply as linked https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/brand/4health/dog-dental-treats-chews

my previous 12y/o furbaby (RIP…damn cancer…, gosh i loved him) LOVED, went crazy for the minties brand i found a while back and have some left, but they seem to cause some gi issues with this new pup so i was considering the TSC ones. I can’t keep up with all the different names that are out there for the same ingredients, supplements etc. so hope to get a little help here. Also open to suggestions to other brands, treats, chews or maybe even some homemade stuff. I live near a small town, but it got a TSC a while back and i am a brick and mortar kinda shopper if i can be. thanks in advance

[ste stef]

My dog have a lot mass tumors. We be a lot times on vet, we just get answer this is it and thats it.
Her biggest problem is too big leg, she cant walk on that leg. Vet give me antibiotic in hope it will shring.
What you think i can do to help her? She have lipomas almost on every part of her body.
13 year old Cane Corso.
I read about L carnitine, omega 3, quercetin supplements, i give this one a day to her. What else i can do? t
Thank you and God Bless You!

[Ramesh Kumar]

Hi! I haven’t tried Nutra Thrive by Ultimate Pet Nutrition myself, but it does seem like a promising supplement with its blend of vitamins, minerals, antioxidants, amino acids, and probiotics. I’m also interested to hear from anyone who has used it. If you have any experiences or insights to share, please do! It would be great to know how it has worked for your dogs.

[Pet Servo]

At Pet Servo, we understand that proper nutrition is the cornerstone of your dog’s health and happiness. Our extensive range of dog food and supplements is designed to meet the dietary needs of dogs of all ages, sizes, and breeds. From premium dry and wet food options to specialized formulas for puppies, adults, and seniors, we have everything you need to ensure your pet receives a balanced and nutritious diet. Additionally, our collection includes a variety of supplements to support joint health, skin and coat condition, digestion, and overall wellness. Browse our selection to find high-quality, vet-approved products that cater to your dog’s specific nutritional needs, promoting a long, healthy, and active life.

[YorkiLover4]

My dog was coughing so much especially after drinking water. It was awful to watch him gagging and choking. I have to be super careful and use a harness. Please be careful everybody not to use anything around their neck. My vet suggested we try glucosamine and collagen. The products I am using are ArthroStride and Ultra-Flex Collagen from AskAriel.com There is a lot of information on this site about collapsed trachea. https://www.askariel.com/collapsed-trachea-supplements-s/1896.htm I know how everybody feels because when you see your baby just choking from a sip of water and then he doesn’t want to drink at all, it makes me feel terrible. I did notice these products improved the gagging a lot. It’s not completely gone, but it’s a lot better.

[Michelle R]

I have an old english bull dog. Never had this breed before. He is a rescue and has history of fractures. Appears his back is on the weak side. I am wondering 1) supplements recommended name and why that brand, 2) a good dry food I did see a gentleman named Chris say that merrick was a good quality for this breed but wondering which type 3) is there any other supplement or product that anyone would recommend for strengthen bone and muscle

[eterson P]

Dinovite is a popular dog food brand that claims to be a complete nutritional supplement for pets. It is also relatively affordable, and the company offers coupons to customers. Some users report that Dinovite has helped their dogs with skin and coat health, digestion, and overall growth. However, there is no consensus on whether Dinovite is a truly good product for pets. It is important to speak with your veterinarian before switching to any new dog food, especially if your pet has any health concerns.

[KelWolf]

Hi Aimee
Logical reasoning..I stay away from Processed Sugar & UNNECESSARY carbohydrates that yes convert into Sugar….
I did not say anything about Protein & Fat which are completely necessary & what they do Process..I didn’t include that regarding unnecessary carbs/sugar..
Whole Prey body parts good!
Unnecessary Sugar bad!

Dogs and Cats are Carnivores they do NOT process plant matter! Humans seem to think just cuz human foods are healthy it is good for their pet. Fact they are not omnivorous…They are both Biologically Scientifically Carnivorous by Design & they do not Process as the Herbivore does..Just as the Human Body is designed Herbivore (should not be consuming meat) Even though we can consume flesh the human body is not designed to Process it & flesh results in body organ stress health issues & sicknesses even death!
Carnivores are completely different by Design…so as the same for Humans Dogs & Cats consuming unnecessary foods does the same thing stress out the body & organs health issues & sicknesses even death!
Fruits & Veggies are high in sugar…there are some greens like pureed/powered Dandelion or Collard greens algae or other sources that can offer alil Chlorophyll or other benefits like Curcumin etc but very Lil is absorbed & has to be processed absorbable bioavaialable since they do not Process plant matter!
If it isn’t something that they would actually hunt in the Wild don’t feed it unless their bodies are safely able to absorb it without negative effects (health issues & allergies) like say Green lipped mussels can benefit even tho they wudnt hunt again as long as it is tolerated without harm
& One has to ask what would this pet actually Hunt!?!

Whole Prey is best & Yes one can add other wonderful things Nature can provide like herbs depending on how its converted & say the wonderful benefits of like Bragg’s Apple Cider Vinegar or Colloidal Silver in Moderation but if it’s not Species Appropriate then be cautious & stay away if overall harmful!
Processed Products processed for Animals most of the time add unnecessary ingredients coatings etc that will convert into Sugar so the more sugar added daily the more unhealthy issues will arise!
Their receptors are searching for something to help the body when something is lacking or when their bodies are in distress or when they are trying to feed a hunger craving…grass for an upset tummy they will either throw it up or poo it out! Wolves Coyotes will consume grasses & other inappropriate matter like berries just to feed the hunger if they have lack of or unsuccessful hunting of Prey but will not Process it..again instead it gets pooed out!
Even grass has sugary roots when consumed will add sugar which in turn will add yeast! Grains cause bacteria & yeast so stay away from grain-fed animals (prey). What goes into the Prey goes into the Predator. Again the Preys body processes the plant matter not the Predator!
Even feeding whole Prey one has to think how is the Prey treated fed harvested etc since it will be consumed by the Pet..everything is crucial so incorporating something unnecessary & harmful is crucial!
Like never consume Tap Water..Believe it or not some people don’t even realize not to…Tap water is cleaned with chemicals causing issues & Cancers etc…be cautious of everything!
So adding unnecessary ingredients just harms the body in many ways so to avoid it is best…Believe me I try to look at everything after seeing harmful results!
I research all the time & even find some things I thot were possibly healthy really aren’t but have to learn new everyday! Like unfortunately I have cut off ALL Tripe no matter what due to yeast issues since alot of Companies state grass-fed but don’t state grain-finished & some are both but may supplemental feed (grains or hay) during winter months causing issues & Tripe usually isn’t 100% clean & other Organs may affect the Pet as well…so again learning each day!
Adding Sugar on top of Natural Sugar & feeding multiple things with sugar & adding too much will cause issues. Feeding them feeds their Cells & everything matters when trying to be as close to appropriate as possible…mimicking to the best of our knowledge is our hope!
Also even when your trying to feed a healthy Raw Diet..if the pets body is compromised say from sugary yeast overgrowth/cancer/etc it creates a barrier not allowing healthy nutrients to absorb so No matter how hard you try to feed healthy it’s pointless & they continue to get sicker so they need to CLEANSE first & rid the body of the yeast in order for the body to do what it needs to do to heal itself & Cancerous Cells thrive on sugar..take Away the sugar source better the chance the Cancerous Cells will die or return back healthy & new healthy cells will thrive at long as there is time!
Just cuz Dogs & some cats will eat pretty much anything doesnt mean it is good for them..& they are designed Completely different than the Human Herbivore especially the Feline..so feed as the body is designed & be cautious of things that will benefit (even tho they are not what they would hunt like ex Colloidal Silver/ACV)…just like for Humans Animals stay away from unnecessary/processed Sugar Chemicals & harmful products & the Body no matter Herbivore or Carnivore it will thrive Healthy🐾💛🐾

[Chip]

I’m confused about the rating system. Applaws Broth Pots leads the list of wet foods. I looked it up on Chewy as I intended to order some, but in reading the fine print, it’s considered a “natural cat food complement” meant to be used in conjunction with dry food for a “complete meal”. The list of ingredients is considered “limited” at 3 or 5, usually just the main protein source sometimes having carrots or green beans included. Why would this be considered a 5 star food when it lacks all of the supplements needed for it to be considered a balanced cat food (things like taurine)? Also, why purchase this when it would be much more cost effective to purchase a chicken, roast or boil it, shred it, and then make about 50 individual portions and freeze it? The recommended Applaws Broth Pots only contains chicken, chicken broth, rice, carrots, and green beans. Do cats even need the last three ingredients as obligate carnivores? If the main concern about preparing your own pet food is creating a well balanced meal, why are they fully recommending a “food complement” with 5 stars while Wellness Complete Heath meals receive 4 stars? It makes no sense and I now am questioning the integrity of the recommendations presented.

[Aussie Pet D]

Optimal supplements for dogs include omega-3 fatty acids, glucosamine, chondroitin, and probiotics. However, consult with a veterinarian before starting your dog on any supplements.

[Dog H]

As PetsPaa, I understand your concerns about your 3-year-old male pointer’s sensitive digestion and history of severe starvation. It’s important to consider his unique dietary needs, especially after undergoing surgery to remove half of his intestines.

Given that commercial feeds have not worked well for him in the past, and considering his history of success with homemade cooked food, it may be worth considering a homemade diet again. However, it’s crucial to ensure that his diet is balanced and intestine-friendly to support his health and well-being.

Here are some general guidelines for feeding a homemade diet for your dog with reduced intestinal capacity:

High-quality protein: Choose easily digestible sources of protein such as boiled lean meats (e.g., chicken, turkey, or beef), eggs, and cottage cheese. These provide essential amino acids for muscle health and tissue repair.

Low-fiber carbohydrates: Opt for easily digestible carbohydrates such as well-cooked white rice, boiled potatoes, or pasta. Avoid high-fiber foods like legumes, as they can be difficult to digest and may cause gastrointestinal issues.

Healthy fats: Include a source of healthy fats in the diet, such as cooked and cooled boiled eggs, fish oil, or olive oil, to provide energy and support nutrient absorption.

Vitamins and minerals: Add a vitamin and mineral supplement or a complete and balanced canine multivitamin to ensure your dog gets all the necessary nutrients.

Avoidance of harmful ingredients: Avoid feeding your dog foods that are toxic to dogs, such as chocolate, onions, garlic, grapes, and raisins, as they can cause severe health issues.

Feeding schedule: Consider dividing your dog’s meals into smaller, more frequent meals throughout the day to ease the workload on his reduced intestine.

Monitoring and consultation: Regularly monitor your Dog Health Care
viz. weight, body condition, and overall health, and consult with your veterinarian for ongoing guidance and adjustments to the diet as needed.

It’s important to work closely with your veterinarian or a veterinary nutritionist to create a balanced and intestine-friendly homemade diet that meets your dog’s specific needs. They can help you determine the right amounts of protein, carbohydrates, and fats for your dog’s condition and monitor his progress over time.

Remember, it’s crucial to introduce any dietary changes slowly to allow your dog’s digestive system to adjust, and to closely monitor his response to the new diet. If you notice any signs of digestive upset, weight loss, or other health concerns, consult with your veterinarian promptly for further evaluation and guidance.

[mattunderwater]

Hello!

We have an 11-month-old yellow lab (male) who currently weighs approximately 27kg. After recommendations from our pet store and dog trainer, we switched the little guy to Dr. Clauder’s Hyposensitive Duck & Potatoes at around 5-6 months as we were told that the Junior food is packed with a lot of calories that usually contribute to accelerated weight gain and that might cause problems with the developing joints and bones.

Furthermore, we also add supplemental Norwegian salmon oil (two pumps) in the morning and FITMIN DOG PURITY JOINTS & PREVENTION with his evening meal.

During our regular vet check-ups, we were told that he is very healthy and is in a great weight range.

The reason for this post: I’ve read so much conflicting information out there regarding when to switch junior dogs to adult food; some say earlier, some say later, and that it is better to keep junior dogs on junior food for longer rather than not enough.

I’ve now got a lot of questions and am very concerned as I love this guy more than life itself… Is what we did wrong? How did we affect our dog? Should we switch back to junior food? If yes, until what age?

[syma K]

Hello Everyone

I have a dog who is very important to me, so I want to make sure he is getting the best food and supplements to keep him healthy. To do this, I have researched and compiled a list of the best dog supplements on the market today. These products contain natural ingredients that provide essential vitamins, minerals, and nutrients for your pet’s overall health and wellbeing. All of these supplements are veterinarian approved and offer great value for money too! Dog food and even treats can be enriched with these supplements to ensure optimal nutrition. Whether you are looking for something to supplement your pet’s diet, or just want to give them an extra boost of health, these top products are the perfect choice. However, I am here to ask dog owners a few questions, before selecting the best supplement for their beloved pet.

What type of diet does your dog eat?

What health issues are you trying to address with this supplement?

Is it good to give your pet supplements year round or just during certain seasons?

Are there any side effects associated with the supplement you are considering?

Where can I find coupons and discounts for dog supplements?

Looking forward to hearing from all you dog owners out there and helping you find the best supplement for your beloved pet.
Thank you for joining me in this conversation!

[Mutts and Cats]

Hi Aimee. Thanks for the reply. I really appreciate your comment on Rescue Remedy. I have felt that it helps him after a seizure so I do hate to discontinue it now – especially after the cluster.

This shaking (without a full seizure) is definitely much more intense than a tremor. And completely out of his control. But it has become a little less intense since the first couple times it happened. The first couple times he would also pant for a minute or two after it stopped, but now he just takes a deep breath when it stops and then starts napping, but with subtle signs of discomfort.

When he has a full seizure, the progression every time is this: (1) he starts looking around like he hears something, for 3-5 seconds; (2) shakes violently for 3-5 seconds; (3) tonic phase of seizure where he goes rigid for 15 seconds or so; (4) clonic phase with paddling of all limbs and much foaming at the mouth, for about 1 minute. Afterwards he remains lying down, eyes wide open and looking scared to death, and pants REALLY heavily for 5 minutes or so.

The first couple shaking episodes (without a full seizure) I think it started with looking around first, but I’m not sure. Now, I don’t see him doing that, or if he is it is more subtle.

The lack of the appetite in the morning has come and gone in the last year, but has been pervasive for the last few weeks. Until a couple months before the seizures started he always had a good appetite. His appetite first started to wane when he was on Rimadyl for a few weeks, and the lack of appetite was most noticeable in the morning. Since then, there have been so many changes (food, supplements) that could have upset his stomach that it is hard to sort it all out. One thing that has been pretty consistent since the seizures started is that he is consuming more fat than he was previously, so I really have to wonder if he has developed digestion problems centered around that. I have cut back significantly on the fatty foods in the last few days, and stopped the MCT Oil. Yesterday he had no breakfast, and today a small one but less fatty than before. No shaking yesterday or today. But, two data points is far from conclusive. 🙁

On your CBD Oil pharmacokinetics question – I have not read much on that, but I do have a 2019 study (published in Animal) in my voluminous collection of seizure reading. They found “…time to maximal concentration (Tmax) of 1.4 h and 2 h, for dogs and cats, respectively” and “… half- elimination rates of approximately 4 h in dogs”

Back when I was giving him a full dose of CBD Oil, he got it in the morning typically about an hour before eating and in the evening right before eating. I had stopped the CBD completely on 1/20. He then had the first cluster of 3 seizures on 2/6 and the first shaking episode on 2/9. I restarted the CBD on 2/10, in the morning only, at a lower dose. None yesterday and today.

I’m not sure that I mentioned this before, but he has been on SAMe (800 mg/day) since the first high enzyme bloodwork. He gets that in the middle of the day.

I could go on and on, but will control myself. I imagine you do have other things to do. Thanks for taking the time to consider and comment. M&C

[Mutts and Cats]

Hi Aimee. I had another thought (in the middle of the night) about a possible contributor to my dog’s high liver enzymes. About the same time that I started the CBD Oil I also started supplementing MCT Oil. I had in my mind from former reading that MCT Oil was metabolized differently than other fats and was not hard on the liver. This morning I’ve been doing some more reading and I sure am finding conflicting info out there about whether MCT Oil taxes the liver or not. Do you have any thoughts on that?

I hate to stop the MCT now because of the possibility that it is helpful for seizures. A few weeks ago I lowered the amount. But after the day of cluster seizures last week, I increased it again. So, add MCT to the many things that have me wondering if I am helping or hurting . . . M&C

[aimee]

Hi Patricia,

I’ll share anything I learn regarding the recall.

When looking at foods without supplementation the nutrients I first check, being careful to convert to caloric basis, are Vit E, Vitamin D, and Zinc. One company whose Vit D levels were very low told me it isn’t a problem because dog make Vit D. I just needed to make sure they got enough sun .. Facepalm -Vit D is essential in dogs and the basis for saying that as a species, though overall considered an omnivore, they have a carnivore bias.

This is taken from the article I inked to ” our current hypothesis is that compounds in these ingredients may have toxic effects on the heart.”

Because lentils are the third ingredient, I personally would not consider feeding diet 2.

[Patricia A]

Hi Aimee,
Please share when and if Purina updates with well what went wrong and what measures they will be taking to avoid this error. Of course, can never be free of human error.
Yes, I wanted to highlight in caps CLAIMS in the brands don’t use vitamin packs for for reason they tout. Just a bad feeling all around with feeding these. Have you ever did any anylsisi of what is lacking? Don’t think I’m using the right terminology but think you get what I’m asking with my level of simplicity . lol
A “toxin” suspected. Is there an article you can share please. I haven’t come across that as possible reasoning.
So these are the two trying to decide on. My concerns are barley for the grain. I know it’s high in fiber but also carbs. But is very good with digestibility.
The grain free from Stella’s has been changed from old recipe. People steering clear of all the legumes, I now notice only one listed instead of chickpeas etc. So positive change?? OH, just noticed when posting that 3rd ingredient is lentils. Could that mean same amount of legumes but just LOOKS like less since not 4 or 5 different legumes written?
Cage-Free Chicken Chicken Meal Oatmeal Pearled Barley Chicken Fat (preserved with Mixed Tocopherols) Pumpkin Quinoa Chicken Liver Natural Chicken Flavor Chicken Gizzard Flaxseed Salmon Oil (Preserved with Mixed Tocopherols) Coconut Flour Salt Pumpkin Seeds Organic Cranberries Organic Spinach Organic Beets Organic Carrots Organic Squash Organic Blueberries Inulin (from Chicory Root) Thyme Sage Rosemary Extract Mixed Tocopherols (preservative) Dried Kelp Potassium Chloride Dicalcium Phosphate Taurine Choline Chloride Zinc Proteinate Iron Proteinate Copper Proteinate Manganese Proteinate Sodium Selenite Vitamin E Supplement Calcium Iodate Thiamine Mononitrate Niacin Supplement D-calcium Pantothenate Riboflavin Supplement Vitamin A Supplement Vitamin D3 Supplement Vitamin B12 Supplement Pyridoxine Hydrochloride Folic Acid Dried Pediococcus Acidilactici fermentation product Dried Lactobacillus Dried Bifidobacterium Longum fermentation product Dried Bacillus Coagulans fermentation product

Cage-Free Chicken Chicken Meal Lentils Chicken Fat (preserved with Mixed Tocopherols) Chicken Liver Chicken heart Natural Chicken Flavor Salmon Oil (Preserved with Mixed Tocopherols) Suncured Alfalfa Chicken Gizzard Fenugreek Seed Flaxseed Coconut Flour Pumpkin Seeds Organic Cranberries Organic Spinach Organic Broccoli Organic Beets Organic Carrots Organic Squash Organic Blueberries Pumpkin Inulin (from Chicory Root) Thyme Sage Rosemary Extract Mixed Tocopherols (preservative) Dried Kelp Potassium Chloride Calcium Carbonate Taurine Dicalcium Phosphate Zinc Proteinate Iron Proteinate Copper Proteinate Manganese Proteinate Sodium Selenite Vitamin E Supplement Calcium Iodate Thiamine Mononitrate Niacin Supplement D-calcium Pantothenate Riboflavin Supplement Vitamin A Supplement Vitamin D3 Supplement Vitamin B12 Supplement Pyridoxine Hydrochloride Folic Acid Salt Dried Pediococcus Acidilactici fermentation product Dried Lactobacillus Dried Bifidobacterium Longum fermentation product Dried Bacillus Coagulans fermentation product
So didn’t get chance to put analysis. But if you could, just the ingredients in view at first is better choice. I’m rushing but I know it’s not just ingredients but which would you pick. thanks so much Aimee. Took over 1/2 hr. to write this in between tending to my mom’s needs. So please overlook errors in writing

• This reply was modified 2 years, 10 months ago by Patricia A.

[aimee]

Hi Patricia,

In general, I believe that most additions are all automated so was there a problem with that process? If it was a general remix problem, I’d think the recall would be widespread.

The other thought I had was there a “clump” of Vit D for lack of a better word in the premix which resulted in a small amount of the premix being of higher Vit D levels.

So far it appears the company took appropriate action. About 10? years ago, as I recall, there was a company that didn’t recall for months after getting reports and when they did recall implicated the dogs for being overly sensitive to Vit D . That never sat well with me.

Thanks for the kind feedback I’m glad to know that you have found value in my posts.

I do not believe legumes are blocking taurine absorption. nor that the problem is due to insufficient animal protein. Based on this most recent update from Tufts, it seems a toxin is suspected. I do not believe supplementing a suspect diet would be helpful. Right now, I think the best course of action is to avoid feeding legumes (soy being the exception) https://vetnutrition.tufts.edu/2023/02/diet-associated-dilated-cardiomyopathy-the-cause-is-not-yet-known-but-it-hasnt-gone-away/

While I understand their appeal, I haven’t yet come across a supplement free diet that I would trust. You hit it on the head when you said they “claim” to meet… based on manufacturer supplied nutritional analysis I’ve consistently found these diets low in some nutrients and excessive in others.

I’ll be happy to give you my opinion on the recipes you post.

[Mutts and Cats]

Hi Aimee. I came back to catch up on my reading. Thank you for addressing all of my questions. Your simplified lesson on fatty acids is great, and very helpful. I had done quite a bit of prior reading on the subject, but I think my eyes generally glossed over part way through articles because it does get so complex. I did of course read about the importance of the 6:3 ratio, but I had also decided it was best to keep the Omega 6 intake at a reasonable level so that a good ratio could be obtained without having to over-supplement with something like fish oil. I still tend to think that is a valid approach, but your lesson emphasizes to me that it is more important that the diet have plenty Omega 3s.

On the chicken-allergy-holistic-vet subject, I did quickly lose confidence in the holistic vet and discontinued that. There was no evidence pointing toward my dog being allergic to chicken, and in fact when I later had the IgE food allergy test done through another vet, he had no reaction to chicken. But, I know, IgE testing is a controversial subject, and I won’t digress. I came to suspect that this holistic vet pretty much gave every patient the same plan, regardless of what they were there for. Complete removal of chicken from the diet and take the liver support supplements and Chinese herbs that she sold. But, as bad as my experience with her was, it was not quite as bad as your holistic vet experience.

An update on my seizer. This morning I gave him a dose of CBD Oil, in addition to the Keppra in an attempt to break the pattern of daily partial seizures in the morning. It is noon now, and so far no seizure today. So if we can get through the rest of the day without one, that will be a relief. But, the goal is to stop the CBD and hope that the Keppra will kick in and help.
I do think now that the CBD Oil was probably helping to control his seizures, but I also acknowledge the elusiveness of seizures and that it may have been doing nothing except raising his liver enzymes. I was very careful in selecting a brand, and I think I was using one of the best brands out there, but it’s kind of like commercial dog food – you just never really know.
You asked about his age – he just turned 6. So he is right on the line that is typically used as a general guide for diagnosing the underlying cause. If this daily partial seizure routine continues I will probably consider an MRI.
Thanks for the kind words. M&C

[Mutts and Cats]

Hi Patricia A. Sorry for the delayed reply. It’s been a really bad week for my seizure dog, so of course a bad week for me too. After the two seizures close together he then had another one 14 hours later, in the middle of the night, and since then is having violent shaking episodes every morning, just like he has right before a seizure, but without the full blown seizure.

Sounds like you are also having a very bad week with your mother. I can only imagine what you are going through. My father died 12 years ago with a bad case of dementia. It was really hard to see him that way. I did what I could, spending many nights in the hospital with him and then visits to a memory care facility, but his wife and I didn’t get along so I had no control over his care. Having no control was really hard, but I was shielded from much of what you are going through.

Glad you found your husband to be the culprit and not your new choices of food. A much easier fix.
I had not heard about the PPP recall. I am supposed to get recall notices from DFA, so I’m surprised I didn’t get that one. Coincidentally, Vitamin E has been my latest dilemma – whether to supplement or not. Since I am feeding so much fresh meat these days, it is something that theoretically I should supplement. But in my perusal of vitamin/mineral data from many, many companies, it is pretty common to see data with an alarmingly high level of Vit E. One company can have many recipes with normal levels then one recipe with really high levels. Particularly companies who are using mixed tocopherols as a preservative. My theory is that it is difficult to get Vitamin E thoroughly blended into a food. So it is hit and miss whether the bag of food a dog is eating has high or low levels of it. Just my guess as to what might be going on. So for now, I’ve decided not to supplement.

I haven’t explored Reddit yet, but I will. I guess I’m just exhausted, and soooo disappointed, at this point. I had my hopes up that my dog was headed in the right direction and that maybe the changes I had made were working. But those hopes are completely dashed now. After a frustrating week of trying to get my vet to call me back, I finally talked to her on Thurs and started him on an anti-seizure med that evening. The good news is that he is not experiencing the terrible side effects that I feared from AEDs. But still having those “almost seizures”.
Hope things are going better for you and your mother today. Always good to hear from you. M&C

[Amelia A]

Yes, it can be beneficial to feed your dog a glucosamine supplement if they are experiencing joint pain. Glucosamine is a naturally occurring substance that is important for the health and function of joints. It can help reduce inflammation, improve joint mobility, and provide pain relief for dogs with arthritis or other joint problems. It’s always a good idea to consult with your veterinarian before giving your dog any kind of supplement. They can help determine the appropriate dose for your dog based on their size, age, and overall health, and make sure that the supplement https://www.vitamintree.ca/Category/SUPPLEMENTS/16 doesn’t interact with any medications they may be taking.

[aimee]

Hi M&C,

Since I myself had a dog with seizures I thought I’d share what I learned. She had her first partial seizures, meaning she didn’t lose consciousness. at 9 months. As I recall, vets broadly rank possible causes based on age with toxicity (ingested or metabolic) and infections being more common in very young dogs, a genetic cause being more in a young adult, and tumors or other metabolic cause from organ dysfunction. more common in middle aged to older adults

I consulted a neurologist. and together we decided not to start her on medication. I did not change her diet. For the most part, her seizures occurred when relaxed in the car. The neurologist suspected a noise induced component (apparently engine noise can cause seizures in some dog) combined with the brain waves pattern in light sleep. I also consulted with a holistic vet. I was told she was seizing in response to negative energy I had from having to get up early on the days we traveled. That was the first and last time I ever consulted a holistic vet.

Her seizure frequency was greatly reduced by preventing her from dozing during travel. She also had seizures not associated with travel. The general guidance I was given for deciding when a seizure disorder should be medicated is if they were occurring more than once a month, if there were multiple seizure in a day or if any one seizure was of longer duration. Apparently, the more seizures a dog has, the more established that brain pattern becomes and the more refractory they become to responding to anti-convulsant, so it is better to start medication early in the course of the disease if they meet the criteria. She stated to seizure more frequently and I decided the time had come to put her on meds but I was neglectful in getting her back to the vet and after several months of increased frequency the dang things just stopped.

What I learned is that seizure patterns sometimes have no pattern. It can be easy to ascribe triggers to things that had no bearing on their cause or to credit interventions with decreasing seizures when in reality the intervention had no effect. My understanding is that CBD. is an established treatment for a particular type of seizure in children and its use is being evaluated in dogs. As I recall the doses tested with marginal to no effectiveness have been about 20-40 times higher than the supplements marketed for pet owners. Personally, I think if you are supplementing with an OTC CBD oil it will have no real benefit, but if not well made could bring ham.so I think it was a good decision to remove it to see if it is playing a role in the increased liver enzymes.

[aimee]

Hi M & C,

I’m not aware of any recent company restructuring by Nature’s Variety. I feel more confident with them as a raw company based on past interactions, their use of HPP across all diets. And as I recall they test each batch for pathogens multiple times during production using PCR, which is IMO, much more sensitive that culture. Finally, I believe they are the only raw food producer that employs a full time boarded veterinary nutritionist, Dr. Susan Wynn.

I agree the posted nutritional information appears very straightforward and professional I like that they provide information on a calorie basis and that the numbers appear appropriate. I didn’t see any errors that jumped out on a cursory view.

Copper content overall is higher than I’d like to see, and IMO, likely reflects the company’s feeding philosophy. I suspect it is coming primarily from the inclusion of organ meat. Interesting factoid, apparently copper in pork liver is in a form that cannot be absorbed by the dog.

Based on my understanding of the pet industry, vit/min premixes are a bulk commodity purchased from an outside source. I suspect they include copper at a baseline min value designed to meet an AAFCO profile when incorporated at a prescribed level. It makes no sense to include any more than necessary.

I do not think in most cases a premix is individualized to each recipe but instead the recipe is formulated around the premix. So, when I see foods that have a high level of copper and a supplement, I suspect the level is coming primarily from the ingredients and not the premix.

[aimee]

Hi M & C,

I posted this same reply in the raw thread from which it originated. But answering here as well

If I had to name one area in nutrition that makes my head spin the most it is fatty acids. This is my understanding, but keep in mind my simplification of a very very complex topic may be incorrect, is that omega 6’s on their own are not inflammatory, but that they can be used as a building block for the body to make mediators of inflammation both pro and con.

Linoleic acid (LA) is an Omega 6 essential fatty acid (EFA) made by plants and is vital for skin health. Corn and soy are good sources, so animals raised on corn and soy like poultry and pigs can be good sources of this EFA.

Arachidonic acid (AA) is an omega 6 made by animals from LA. and is the primary building block for the production of inflammatory mediators. Dogs make AA from LA, cats cannot, so it is essential in this species, one reason dogs are classified as omnivores while cats are classified as carnivores.

The Omega 3, alpha linolenic (ALA), is made by plants and is the counter partner to linoleic acid (Both have 18 carbons). EPA and DHA are Omega 3’s made by algae,,but can also be made from ALA by some animals. The ability to do so and how efficient that process is differs among species.

. Here is where I’m not confident in my understanding but I think that when other structural FA are in short supply, cell membranes become saturated with Omega 6’s at levels near their dietary requirement. Meaning that higher levels of Omega 6 in the diet do not necessarily mean higher levels of Omega 6 in the membrane. Supplementation with Omega 3 is done to provide a different set of building blocks so that instead of the cell membrane being made with all Omega 6 it is made with omega 6 and omega 3. Now when Cox or Lox enzymes are present less inflammatory compounds will be produced.

So my understanding is that the key to decreasing inflammation is to provide Omega 3’s in the diet to meet the levels on a metabolic kg body weight basis that have been shown or believed to be beneficial for the condition you want to address and then because the Omega 3’s and 6’s compete for the same enzyme and metabolic pathways, control omega 6’s. so that the 6’s do not outcompete the 3’s for access to enzymes.

With that as a background I find the statement that chicken is inflammatory, baffling. Chicken can be a good source of LA, an EFA, and while LA can be converted to AA which then can in the presence of COX/LOX becomes a mediator of inflammation, on its own I don’t see it as a de facto source of inflammation. Nor do I understand the assessment that your dog is likely allergic to chicken based on a physical exam in the absence of any typical GI or skin signs.

In general, what I find in the holistic field is that a mustard seed of truth morphs into a sweeping overgeneralization which is then presented as fact. That is how I view this bit of information you were given.

[aimee]

Hi M & C,

I’m playing catch -up.

If I had to name one area in nutrition that makes my head spin the most it is fatty acids. This is my understanding, but keep in mind my simplification of a very very complex topic may be incorrect. Omega 6’s in general on their own are not inflammatory, but that they can be used as a building block for the body to make mediators of inflammation both pro and con.

Linoleic acid (LA) is an Omega 6 essential fatty acid (EFA) made by plants and is vital for skin health. Corn and soy are good sources, so animals raised on corn and soy like poultry and pigs can be good sources of this EFA.

Arachidonic acid (AA) is an omega 6 made by animals from LA. and it is the primary building block for the production of inflammatory mediators. Dogs make AA from LA, cats cannot, so it is essential in this species, one reason dogs are classified as omnivores while cats are classified as carnivores.

The Omega 3, alpha linolenic (ALA), is made by plants and is the counter partner to linoleic acid (Both have 18 carbons). EPA and DHA are Omega 3’s made by algae but can also be made from ALA by some animals. The ability to do so and how efficient that process is differs among species.

Here is where I’m not confident in my understanding, I think that when other structural FA are in short supply, cell membranes become saturated with Omega 6’s at levels near their dietary requirement. Meaning that higher levels of Omega 6 in the diet do not necessarily mean higher levels of Omega 6 in the membrane. Supplementation with Omega 3 is done to provide a different set of building blocks so that instead of the cell membrane being made with all Omega 6 it is made with Omega 6 and Omega 3. Now when Cox or Lox enzymes are present fewer inflammatory compounds will be produced.

So my understanding is that the key to decreasing inflammation is to provide Omega 3’s in the diet to meet the levels on a metabolic kg body weight basis that have been shown or believed to be beneficial for the condition you want to address, and then because the Omega 3’s and 6’s compete for the same enzyme and metabolic pathways, control omega 6’s. so that the 6’s do not outcompete the 3’s for access to enzymes.

With that as a background I find the statement that chicken is inflammatory, baffling. Chicken can be a good source of LA, an EFA, and while LA can be converted to AA which then can in the presence of COX/LOX become a mediator of inflammation, on its own, I don’t see it as a de facto source of inflammation. Nor do I understand the assessment that your dog is likely allergic to chicken based on a physical exam in the absence of any typical GI or skin signs.

In general, what I find in the holistic field is that a mustard seed of truth morphs into a sweeping overgeneralization which is then presented as fact. That is how I view this bit of information you were given.

[Mutts and Cats]

Hi Aimee. You must have enjoyed a few days off from my questioning. I have been experimenting with the caloric distribution comps to make sure I have it down. Not sure if I do or not. I’ve been running the comps using data from a couple companies (Instinct and Nulo) who have very thorough data sheets, and even provide the % calories from protein, fat, and carbs to compare with my comps. I’m finding that I sometimes match pretty closely to their % calorie figures, and sometimes not. And often my total for % calories from protein, fat & carbs is not 100%. I wonder if one possible explanation for the differences is that they are running the computations using exact numbers from a sample, instead of min protein/fat, max moisture, etc. Anyway, my understanding of this stuff is coming along, and my brain is getting some good exercise.

Thanks for the additional comments on copper content. From what I have seen out there it has been 100% beef recipes that have had really high copper contents. And I think the highest ones were companies who are also adding a copper supplement. This is just from a few (quite a few) companies that I explored, so of course is not a scientific study. What I concluded is that many companies are developing a standard vitamin/mineral pack that they dump into every recipe instead of making a custom pack for each recipe. The 3 companies you mentioned must tailor their packs to the specific recipe. The responsible thing to do.

My dog had a seizure this morning, followed by another one 20 minutes later. This has never happened before. I can’t help but wonder if stopping the CBD Oil caused this change. Just when I was starting to feel hopeful . . . M&C

[aimee]

Hi M & C,

Last year?? I called Hill’s Pet Nutrition, Royal Canin and Purina and asked for copper levels in multiple diets. Interesting to me, was that the levels from all three companies fell within a narrow range of as I recall ~3-4 mg/1000 kcals with exception of the therapeutic diets, which were much lower, and breed specific formula by RC was right at AAFCO min ~1.8. The situation I found with small companies’ raw/freeze dried raw offerings was vastly different. Like you I found wild fluctuations among the products they made with some near 100 mg/kg DM Wow just Wow

I first started looking because of a comment I read by Dr Sharon Center who said, as I recall, in her opinion, one factor in the rising cases of copper storage disease ( CSD) was the trend towards “natural” diets, resulting in liver/organ meat being used to meet certain nutrient needs and the side effect feeding high organ content was the high copper levels that came with their use. In contrast, I’ve found posts from random people giving advice on CSD to avoid commercial diets that have copper supplements and instead feed “natural” diets. Considering that I found that even though the commercial kibble made by the large companies listed a supplement, the diets had lower levels in general than the “natural diets,” that advice seems very reckless.

That advice reminded me of something I learned long ago. From a biological standpoint the natural diet is meant to sustain an animal through reproduction. After successful reproduction, it is in the interest of the species for the parental generation to die off so that they do not compete with the new generation. In other words, the natural diet may not be the optimum diet to sustain an animal long term.

I suspect copper levels may be lower in poultry based foods because chickens are slaughtered at such a young age so little time for copper to accumulate in their livers as opposed to cattle.