[Aspen A]

Weezerweeks,

I am not trying to convince you to buy Steve’s over another product if that product is working for you. I care that your dog is getting the best nutrition possible, and if you have found that, then I am happy. I just want to share the knowledge I have gained working in the pet food industry. I believe that we did have a recall in 2013 (that was before I was working here). The interesting thing about recalls with us or any other raw food is that they are usually for chicken, which can contain salmonella, which the government regulates closely. However, the recalls are put in place for the protection of humans, not animals. Dog’s stomaches can handle salmonella like nobody’s business, the concern comes in the humans touching the product. It is like with any other raw meat, you always want to use proper handling procedures and wash your hands after using, and salmonella isn’t a problem for anyone involved. It is good the government keeps an eye out for it, but the most dangerous part of a recall for a raw pet food company is not in the chance of making a pet sick, which won’t happen, or a human sick, if they are following good sanitary practices, but the PR and loss of business, such as yourself, that accompanies it. In response to your original question, any dehydrated food is going to cause your pet to drink more, because it rehydrates in their stomach, pulling water from them that they have to replenish.

[InkedMarie]

You’re correct, Blue Buffalo is having issues. I do not think they’re a bunch of hired posters.
Your vet friend may have recommended Bil Jac raw but unless something has changed, it’s not the best. Did you check the revew of it here? Up top in the red line, click reviews and look for it.

What are you using to treat the worms?

[Susan]

Hi sounds like your girl has IBD, I read on a link now I cant find it, it said you shouldn’t give dogs enzymes especially if they have a healthy gut, there 2 types of enzymes the plant enzymes or Porcine enzymes….I’d stop the kibble, my boy has IBD & has so many problems with kibbles, just finished trying another kibble & he was sooooo ill, bad acid reflux, now has a real sore throat from the acid reflux, vet wants him on just Turkey breast mince mix in 1 raw egg, then I make about 4 loaves & put on a baking tray & bake 20mins…just for 4-6 weeks to give his stomach a rest, I freeze section & also boil sweet potato boil pumkin & freeze, I boil some Quinoa as its gluten free,….he has stop scatching & his red paws have gone & the red under his chin has gone… I’m finding Patch needs a gluten free diet & has real bad food allergies that has caused his IBD & Colitis when he eats something that he’s allergic too, he has his bloody poos cause the food is irritating his bowel..look up gluten free & low residue foods & stick with those foods also don’t rotate too many foods as you wont know what is causing the itchy skin….
I have found foods that agrees with him & give for breakfast & dinner & something else that agrees with him for lunch & a late dinner, he has 4 small meals thru the day, we found this works best for Patch. also use Malaseb medicated shampoo I found to be the best…. Patch does not take any heartworm meds, he cant take any worm meds only Milbemax all wormer every 6months & I dread the day its due he eats grass the next day & feels sick all day but doesnt have diarrhea on the Milbemax, vet said its very mild, Patch can not use Advantage flea spot on… only Frontline plus, as Frontline only penetrates 2 layers of the skin, where other flea spot ons penetrate thru into their blood, Patch nilly died from Advantage…you name it Patch cannot take it, its all to do with his IBD…..
So I have learnt LESS IS BEST….

[Susan]

Hi again, here’s a link for a grainfree gluten free diets
http://www.holvet.net/raw_pet_diet.html

[Susan]

Hi, do you have the time to cook, I have Patch on Turkey Breast mince 1 kilo mix in 1 raw egg then I get a baking tray & make about 4 turkey loaf put in the oven & its ready in 20mins, then I cool & freeze, I also boil sweet potatoes & pumkin & freeze, I put in a blender & blend… to 1 cup I add 1 spoon no fat greek yogurt, Patch has stopped his scratching & red paws & red chin have all gone & he’s only been on the turkey breast mix for 1 week.. vet said to feed this diet 4- 6 weeks until I can find something that will agree with him, she said it wont hurt that its not balanced, its only for 1 month……now I’m looking at a brand called “Sunday Pets” its a New Zealand brand biscuits they look like a weet bix, but are smaller bits that u break in half, they are for dogs with skin problems & for dogs that don’t chew their kibble & gulp… I got a sample & Patch went nuts when he smelt the biscuits.. I’m trying the Deliganics cause they have only 5% fat, Patch needs a low fat diet cause of his stomach problems…
http://www.sundaypets.com/tasty-holistic-grain-free

[bkagel]

I am a big advocate for Bragg’s raw apple cider vinegar for myself and after reading yet another article on raw apple cider vinegar for dogs, I thought why not. It’s done wonders for my immune system and I’ve become one of those raw apple cider vinegar freaks. It’s been about 2 weeks now that I have been putting 8-9 drops in their water bowls. They are super picky dogs!

The biggest improvement has been with my dog gracie. She has some form of ibs. Since taking the raw apple cider vinegar in her water, her poop sizes have been smaller (yes!!) and they aren’t as squishy. In fact, if I put ground flaxseed in her food for those “special times” it seems to make things worse, not better.

I can’t say enough good things about their health and raw apple cider vinegar.

[bkagel]

Help!!! I’m going to have to change everything free dog food again!!! Gracie is the one with the allergies. I have been giving both dogs raw apple cider vinegar in their water and her sensitive tummy seems to be doing much better in two weeks. However…..I have gone through almost all the dog foods that Inked Marie (thank you very much Inked Marie) listed and there is something I don’t like or they don’t like in almost all of them.

What they don’t like-anything with chicken or turkey

What I don’t like-fruit, legumes, anything that has a super high protein in it because it gives Gracie the runs. I’m not fond of sweet potatoes either. She’s an 8 year old papillion that acts like she’s 3. She doesn’t need fruit or sweet potato because she’s the energizer bunny already.

We have used Merrick grain free, Nature’s variety, Back to basics pork (too rich and gave her the runs) and currently using Nutrisource grain free. I don’t give them the lamb. Since they are both small dogs, I rotate blends every 3-4 months.

They love their kibble but it’s cold and snowy outside and she’s still scratching like a fiend.

Gracie and George were at their healthiest when they did raw. However, mommy doesn’t have the time, money, or energy to make up batches of raw food and repeat repeat repeat.

They love Evanger’s wet food and so do I. Just meat and water. I was thinking of trying Evanger’s dry food but I am concerned about the high level of protein to fat ratio. I’m also concerned about the sweet potato. Somebody help me!!

[james y]

Hello newb here looking for a little info.

First a little background
My 9 month old pitbull, maple has recently been having problems. She undoubtedly had worms and was scratching alot and losing hair. At first i was feeding her purina dog chow and she was doing fine. Then the wife brought home pedigree and thats when the hair loss started. So i instantly thought the dog had mange and began treating her for it. I also read that a raw diet would boost the immune system so i did that too. I fed her venison mostly, with raw eggs and gave her vitamins everyday. She cleared up and we started back with the unused portion of pedigree. Well she broke out in hives!

Ok so the dog is allergic to dog food…just my luck. A vet friend told me to try bil-jac frozen food so i did for a couple weeks. She was doing great on it! we got rid of the worms and shes putting on wieght and her coat is awesome! Although the frozen food isnt very convenient so i just googled best grain free dog food and found this site. I came across a name i recognized “blue buffalo” and this very site said it wss a five star food. So i purchased 20 pounds of the grain free wilderness red meat puppy food. It was pretty pricey, as a matter of fact i figure i could buy hamburger for $3 a pound but its so much easier than having to refrigerate or prepare raw food.

2 days into feeding and she seems to be doing just fine. I dont monitor poo, so i cant say anything about it.

Anyhow now im seeing all this bad stuff on the web about blue dog food….and something about a lawsuit with purina?? Is there any truth to these claims about the food hurting dogs or is it maybe a bunch of hired posters or something? If the stuff wasnt $60 a bag i would just throw it out and go back to the biljac.

[pugmomsandy]

Check out Nutrisource grain free lamb and Pulsar fish. Natures Variety Instinct makes kibble plus raw freeze dried bits, although I wouldn’t call this brand budget friendly. Instinct also has a a freeze dried raw to use as a topper. It’s their Raw Boost powder in a canister. Just scoop and serve. Stella and Chewy’s and Primal have freeze dried raw.

[pugmomsandy]

I’ve fed Nutrisource grain free lamb, Pro Pac Ultimate grain free (Bayside Select is medium kibble, the rest are small), Core Wild Game, Nature’s Logic, By Nature, Natural Planet Organics grain free, Natural Planet. These are foods I’ve rotated through the last two years. I usually have two or three bags open to offer a variety. This way they don’t get any upset stomachs if there’s a recipe change. They also get some canned food. And I also feed raw – homemade and some commercial. I foster pugs too and currently they’re eating the first two foods I mentioned. I wouldn’t recommend sticking with one food as companies change the recipes seems like every couple of years. By rotating foods your pugs will enjoy different flavors and have a healthier gut.

[Samantha H]

There are so many bands and types of dog foods, it’s overwhelming really! I have 9 mini chiweenie’ s and only 2 of them seem to have skin issues, one of them had been on steroids for 3 months now a and she has gained an unhealthy amount of weight. So I’ve kinda been looking for a freeze dried, grain free meal for that one, without chicken. Seems like everything has chicken in it. The other dogs are perfectly happy eating the kibble, I just want to make sure they are getting a healthy kibble that is budget friendly with maybe a raw freeze dried meal topper. If you have any suggestions that would be great?

[crazy4cats]

I was going by this that was posted in the Whole Dog Journal:
Here are my sardine recommendations for adult dogs. Feed twice this much to puppies and pregnant or lactating females.

Dog’s 3.75-oz can
Weight sardines
5 lbs 1/4 can per week
15 lbs 1/2 can per week
25 lbs 5/8 can per week
50 lbs 1 can per week
100 lbs 1 3/4 cans per week

A 3.75-ounce can of sardines has about 200 calories, so reduce the amount of dry food given on “sardine days” accordingly. Rule of thumb: One can of sardines in water has about the same number of calories as ½ cup of most dog foods.

You can substitute canned wild Alaska pink salmon (the bones are edible), oysters (a great source of zinc, especially important for pregnant and lactating females), and other fresh, frozen, or canned wild ocean fish for sardines. Pacific oysters are probably better than Gulf of Mexico oysters, especially after the BP oil spill in 2010, and safer than canned oysters from China. Never feed raw salmon or trout, especially Pacific salmon, because it may contain a bacterium that can kill dogs.
But…. now, I’ve pulled up my ABC diet and it does show two cans per week. So how about 1 1/2! LOL!

Here is the link to the whole dog journal: http://www.whole-dog-journal.com/issues/15_12/features/Fats-Chance_20658-1.html

Either way, it is great that you are considering adding them to your dog’s food. Good luck!

[pugmomsandy]

You can also just feed one whole raw sardine a couple times a week.

[crazy4cats]

Hi 10Vx3-
There are so many options! Like Naturella said, you just have to experiment. I regularly feed Victor grain free joint health to my dogs. I have two big guys. It is basically the same as the grain free ALS Victor with extra glucosamine added. Right now, I’m feeding California Natural grain free Pork kibble and the dogs are doing great with it. I also add a topper and water to every meal. I started out just adding canned. Then after coming to this site, I learned about adding eggs and sardines. Now I even add dehydrated, freeze dried and raw to their meals. It all happened fairly gradually. And unfortunately got,more expensive! I tend to stick to more basic budget friendly kibble so I can afford the extras to boost up the nutritional value. I just don’t think that over processed kibble can be all that healthy by itself. I feed both with and without grain kibble. I also buy kibble that is a little lower in fat as most of the toppers are a little higher in fat. Good luck!

[Mieke v]

Hi Again Carol,

I meant to mention that the website I put in my last post has dehydrated foods and also covers raw and homemade. Thought it might be helpful to you since it helped me in determinations.

[pugmomsandy]

I’m fortunate enough to have 3 dogs and no UTI’s the past 7 years. I feed a high moisture diet (raw and canned), never just plain dry kibble. I also give a bladder supplement with cranberry and d-mannose (and other herbs) and I give probiotics. I also used to monitor my dogs’ urine pH using home pH test strips. Hopefully someone who’s actually dealt with UTI’s will give some input.

http://products.mercola.com/healthypets/bladder-health-for-pets/

https://www.b-naturals.com/newsletter/struvites-crystals-urinary-tract-infections-treatment-and-diet/

http://healthypets.mercola.com/sites/healthypets/archive/2009/10/22/these-3-things-may-indicate-your-pet-has-a-bladder-problem.aspx

http://www.dogaware.com/articles/wdjanxiety.html

[Aspen A]

Lovx3, I am with Steve’s Real Food, a raw pet food company. The Atwater figures are not particularly helpful, and you will always want to compare dog foods using a dry matter comparison. The reason for this is that as different products contain different moisture levels, it can skew the results. Usually pet food companies will use the at water comparison because they want their numbers to look better, so you need to ask them for the dry matter comparison. It sounds like Naturella is doing a great job, and I can give a second opinion in favor of much of what she/he said. I would also recommend that you consider going to a raw diet, as it is much more in line with how your dog is genetically designed to process food. Adding water and mixing with canned is a great start, and definitely better on your dog’s intestines and ability to digest kibble than just giving straight dry, but raw is best!

[Aspen A]

Hi, SamD, Aspen here with Steve’s Real Food (for full disclosure). Rotating is good – you wouldn’t expect your kids to eat the same thing all day every day, and dogs should have variety, too. If you can’t afford raw all the time then switching back and forth would be fine, but if you can, completely eliminating kibble would be best – it sounds like you are already seeing the difference in how they react between kibble and raw, and it is because raw is so much healthier. You just want to make sure he is getting all the trace minerals he needs, and if he is a pup with lots of energy, proteins with higher fat content are better to help him maintain his energy and weight. Good luck to you!

[Aspen A]

Lovemypuppy, I am with Steve’s Real Food, a raw pet food company (for full disclosure). Well done on switching your pup to raw, it is so much healthier for him than even the highest-end kibble. Any dry product is not going to compare in health benefits and easy digestion compared to raw. It is always good to rotate the food – we don’t expect our children to eat one thing every day for their entire life, but if you only feed a kid ice cream and cherrioos their stomachs are going to have a hard time eating apples and spinach. I hope your pup is doing well!

[Aspen A]

Bulldog Mom, I’m with Steve’s Real Food and we sell pre-blended raw dog food, but it sounds like you are wanting to mix your own. Just be careful to make sure your dog is getting all of his trace minerals and a good, healthy nutritional balance – it takes a lot of research, which is why some people choose to do something like Steve’s so it is done for them, so good luck! There are lots of resources out there to help you. Definitely recommend Dr Becker’s book. It is great.

[Aspen A]

Hi, Carol, I am with Steve’s Real Food (a raw pet food company, so you have full disclosure). I just looked up the Miracle Dog food, but I am not seeing enough specifics about which grains and minerals are in it to speak to whether they are the best fit for your pet. If you are worried about the nutrition balance you may want to go to a frozen raw food, there are some great ones out there (Steve’s included) that do the math and nutrition for you, including the fat content, etc. Pork and beef are going to be higher in fat, if you are wanting low fat sticking to chicken and turkey is going to be best. What is wrong with your dog’s pancrease? Is it pancreatitis? Natural Dog Health Remedies.com (no affiliation) recommends Milk Thistle, Yarrow Root, Echinacea, dandelion, and probiotics, if that helps. I would not recommend switching them to dry food. It is so much harder on the stomach, and harder to digest, it makes them more thirsty, etc. If you are looking to improve their diet I would definitely recommend going to a more raw diet rather than a dry diet, that is just a step back, in my opinion.

[Krista S]

I’d like to nominate Nature’s Logic dry and raw to editors choice.

[Adam H]

Hello everyone, I have great news and horrible news all of which are absolutely true without a doubt and promise if anyone wants to question me then go on go on and leave me alone period!

1. I don’t work for dynovite
2. I’ve spent thousands at numerous vets (I refuse to call them anything other then that die please)!
A.steriod shots and antibiotics…….
Money please
B.we have to do a biopsy…….el mula
C.we need to wait 45 days off the steroids in
Order to have a successful blood screen for
allergies……buy these products to help
Including eat plugs…….give me money
Oh the tests aren’t very accurate we have to take our time and find out by feeding the dog 120 dollar bags of food and adding proteins.
More money please.
3. All white pit mix with blue eyes.
A. Only kills three children per week but if your and angry middle
Aged………he takes no prisoners.
4. Added dynovite to a good dry food and some raw food with it and three months later presto. All hair back and licking and itching gone.

I really think vets know about the nutritional deficiencies in dog food and exploit this to there advantage and stab them with needles.

• This reply was modified 10 years, 10 months ago by Adam H. Reason: Spellcheck

[Aspen A]

Hi, Weezerweeks, I am with Steve’s Real Food (for full disclosure). It sounds like you have some great customer service going on with Dr. Harvey. If you are worried about how much water your pup is drinking you may want to look into a completely raw diet. The whole point of freeze dried foods is that they remove all the water from the diet so it can preserve well, which does mean your dog will drink more when using it. Diets that are straight, raw meat are the best for your pup and have enough water in them naturally that dogs actually tend to drink less, not more. You will want to ask about the mineral content, the percentage of sodium, and then compare it to the other foods in your rotation to see if there is a difference.

[ShihTzuMom]

To help resolve my dog’s food intolerance issues I finally moved to feeding raw. I determined that the binders (starches) in kibble were causing as many symptoms as the proteins and grains. I currently feed Darwins Natural Selection but I did go thru a variety of kibbles. If you are not comfortable moving to raw I will say that the freezes dried raw does make for an easy transition. Stella and Chewy seemed to have the best combination of ingredients and they have rabbit and pheasant if you want to use a unique protein. If you want to stay with kibble I found Brothers Complete Allergy Formulas on this website.

Some other resources that provided good information were:
Monica Segal who is certified in animal nutrition. For a relatively nominal fee you can download homemade recipes that are nutritionally balanced.

Dr. Karen Becker and Dr. Peter Dobias also offer good info.

Like on Facebook Canine allergies (environmental and food) it is a great support network.

Good luck and don’t lose faith. Even when you think things are going well a hot spot or ear infection shows up and you adjust again.

[Dori]

Hi Cheryl,
When I feed THK nothing comes out looking as it came in. There are no little bits of anything in their stools. Maybe because they’ve been eating raw for so long that their digestive system is healthier? I don’t really know the reason but it is that way with all three of our girls.

As to Pepper, you say that her vagina is a little swollen. Is it also a little red or more pink than normal? If so, it could be vaginitis. I would at least call the vet and let them know. If it is vaginitis she’ll probably need a round of antibiotics. I’m not in favor of antibiotics in general but there are occasions when they are necessary.

Post back and let me know what they say. Vaginitis can’t be diagnosed by urine tests, they have to physically check out her vagina and possibly get a swab. It’s not bacteria in the bladder or kidneys. Lola had it a number of years ago. They checked her urine and said no infection or bacteria and once they did a thorough exam and checked her vagina they immediately said she had vaginitis. A round of antibiotic and it cleared up immediately and never came back. Some times these smaller dogs are susceptible because their vaginas touch the ground almost every time they pee. Anyway, call the vet. I would.

[Cheryl Pepper Millie Sophie]

HI Dori,
So glad to hear from you and overjoyed all is well with your husband. Couldn’t ask for better news.
Well here at schnauzerville we are dealing with something that worries me and I am reaching out to all.
My pepper the almost 12 y.o. is going into a semi-heat if that is possible -no bleeding but (excuse me all for being so descriptive) her vagina looks swollen I am so fearful of pyometra, what are the signs ,how do i know, should I take her to the vet?? Eating, drinking ,walking aok.
Millie has stopped her bleeding after 3 weeks ,she is still swollen . My first foray with females -Pepper was never spayed her horrible original guardians treated her badly, never took her to a vet, at her advanced age spaying is not an option with her other health issues.
Any advice Dori
i am so worried about my angel Pepper
as for THK yes we are keeping it in and even with the grain free protein inclusive line I still notice pieces of undigested veggies, emailed them they never replied.
We are about to finish the natures variety instinct raw duck a bit hit with pepper and Millie,
Next I think I will try either the primal turkey and sardine or the OCraw-we really are becoming the adventurous schnauzers here at schnauzerville.
Take care & Dori so happy again to hear the good news!! Celebrate

We are on diets here lunch is various cooked veggies Millies face is a riot but she is way too heavy at 16 lbs

• This reply was modified 10 years, 10 months ago by Cheryl Pepper Millie Sophie.

[theBCnut]

I only feed half raw, and the fat level varies day to day. When I feed rabbit, the fat level is VERY low, because rabbit is a very lean meat. But when I feed mutton, I’m probably approaching that 34% mark, and with coconut oil and fish oil added in, I might pass it.

[Dori]

Hi Cheryl,
Bad PMS??? That’s funny. Poor Millie, poor you too!

So glad the girls have taken well to raw and rotational feeding. It’s so much healthier for them. Once you’ve finished with the base mixes then just do the dinners if you’re going to keep THK in your rotation.

Thanks for reaching out. All is well here with all of us I’m thrilled to be able to say.

[Dori]

Aimee.
Sorry, I must learn to thoroughly read original posts. I sometimes skim read and I just focused on the part of the dog having stones. I thought he was asking for help with a diet for a dog that has or had stones.

Tom. I agree with you completely on the ingredients in the foods that vets prescribe. I understand that there may be some animals out there that will benefit from them but I’ve had many dogs in my life and have never come across one of them needing one of those diets. Not to say that I haven’t been asked by vets to feed one or another of them through the years. I just politely let them know that I appreciate their advice and I’ll think about it. This vet that I’ve had for 13 years knows that I feed commercial raw diets so none of the vets in the practice or the techs ask me anymore what I feed my dogs. Dr. Susan Wynn is a nutritionist that has seen my 15 1/2 year old Maltese when she was diagnosed with very high liver levels, then a tumor in her bladder and then a mass on the lobe of one of her lungs. All those were discovered early last Spring. At that point Dr. Wynn suggested that I put Hannah on Nature’s Variety Instinct Raw Diet because it is HPP and if Hannah’s immune system was working hard with all that was going on with her she didn’t want her to be exposed to any unnecessary bacteria. I feed a rotational diet with all three of my dogs and Nature’s Variety Instinct Raw Food was already in their diets. I continued to keep with my rotational feeding of commercial raw foods as I have for the last three years. Some are HPP and some are not. Actually most are not. Typically poultry is what is put under HPP and I don’t feed any poultry because one of my girls is highly intolerant of all fowl. I also don’t feed white potatoes or any night shade plants because they are pro inflammatory. April will be a year that she was diagnosed. To the delight of all, she remains asymptomatic to bladder or lung cancer. Her liver levels are back down in the normal range. (The elevated liver levels were discovered in last Spring’s blood work during her annual physical which is what started the initial visit to Georgia Veterinary Specialists where Dr. Wynn practices and was one of her doctors). I did add a few supplements to Hannah’s diet manufactured by Standard Process. She is regularly monitored and her blood work comes back normal. Her titers are all really good also. Her vet and I decided last year that due to the cancer only titers will be done for her for the rest of her life which I pray is for many many more years. Hannah is the picture in my avatar that was taken last year.

[aimee]

Hi Tom,

My perspective is a bit different so I’ll share it with you. On one hand I think that veterinarians have a duty to inform. If you are feeding your dog a raw diet they have to inform you of risk of pathogens. If they don’t they can be open for a malpractice suit if someone gets ill and it is traced back to the dog’s raw diet.
Your dog has formed stones in the past. I see it as a duty to inform you that the diet you are feeding has not been shown to reduce uric acid stone formation whereas U/D has.
As Dals age the risk of stone formation decreases, you can find common ground by monitoring urine to hit the target parameters to prevent uric acid stone recurrence.

Why do vets recommend Hills? Is it lack of nutrition knowledge? I don’t see that as the reason because I have found that it is those with the most education that also recommend Hills. Stepping away from dogs and vets for a minute, I found that PhD nutritionists selecting commercial diets to feed to valuable zoo animals often choose Hills. At the major zoo near me I saw that Hills was being fed. I asked why and was told it was because of the consistency of formulation and high bioavailability of nutrients.

Veterinary nutritionists also recommend Hills and the general practiioner will look to the specialists in their respective fields when seeking guidance with their cases. Dr. Wynn, a holistic practiioner who is so passionate about proper nutrition that she went on to be board certified in nutrition, recommends Hills.

It really isn’t about lack of knowledge, it is about using a different value system by which foods are evaluated. As for myself, I use Hills products, my choice, based on the things that are important to me when deciding what to use to nourish my dog.

I agree that vets do not get a lot of nutritional training. Just as they don’t get a lot of trading in cardiology or dentistry or radiology etc etc etc.. Yet I’ve yet to hear someone say “I don’t have my vet listen to my dog’s heart because he only had a few lectures on cardiology in vet school”. Certainly how much education any one vet will have will vary with the school form which he/she graduated and also with their own interests. Six of the seven vets where I take my pets did not have any nutritional education from
Hills etc. They had a PhD for general nutrition and then DVM faculty for clinical nutrition. Thry did get a free copy of Small Animal Clinicl Nutriton but no direct contact. The seventh said that they were “lunch and learns” put on by Hills and after the presentation faculty together with the students critiqued the information given to them. These were not a formal part of her nutritional training. Of the seven vets, five different schools were represented and years of graduation varied from 1972 to 2011. Different schools will have different programs, but this idea that students are taught by and brainwashed by company reps I’ve found not to be true.

Do Vets get kickbacks? No but as when selling any product they charge you more then what they paid for it.

[Bobby dog]

BC:
Just curious, are these the fat %’s that you try to meet for the raw diet you feed your dogs?

[Akari_32]

Thank you! It sucks loosing goldfish, doesn’t it? They are such funny little guys, each with their own personalities. The tanks I have set up right now are a 50 gallon oscar tank with the nastiest little momma’s boy ever (LOL), a 29 gallon planted community, the 40 gallon goldfish tank (once it warms back up, some of them will be back out into the pond) and a 6 gallon betta tank. I’ll have to post pics of them all! After my 29 and 50 gallons get some attention lol I’ve been fighting terrible algae in the oscar tank, and the plecos have torn up some plants in the 29 gallon, the naughty brats!

I woke up to Ginger barking like she was going to eat someone when mom was taking her out, and now I can’t go back to sleep, and I’ve decided to plan out a coupon trip, and I’ve got coupons sprawled out all over my bed. Well, the cat thinks he needs to get up here and mess them all up! Little turd…. at least he messed up the pile of ones I don’t plan on using… LOL

[Akari_32]

So I emailed Purina asking about how many cups were in a 32 pound of food, and they sent me back this crap:

http://i765.photobucket.com/albums/xx294/Akari53/23D1FB01-EF17-422D-9861-AD88E5B14EC9_zpsqh3ok8t9.png

“Specific formula” my butt! I’ll figure it out myself, thanks. I was just being lazy… Lol

Mountainhound, when you have a dog with a list of health problems as long as Ginger has, including extremely poor dental health, let me know how raw works out. I’m 100% for raw feeding, two of my pets are raw fed, in fact, but it’s not the only answer to every situation. The best of the best, when it comes down to diet, is simply what works best for each dog. Ginger can’t handle the fat content in raw, and the bacterial content would wreak havoc on her already infected mouth and poorly adapted digestive system. I’ve spent enough nights washing dog beds, thank you very much.

[Sam D]

We have our 4 month old Aussie on a good kibble/raw rotation. For his kibble dinners we sometimes put wet food toppers on it. I tried Cocolicious turkey & beef by Party Animal tonight and our dog went haywire. Like jumping up and down nuts before and after I fed him and while I was dishing it out. I’ve never seen him eat food up so quickly and he eats Instinct raw bites and Aunt Jenni’s up pretty fast. He polished it off and then looked at us with his best “More please.” look followed by a huge burp. It was a movie moment if I’ve ever seen one.

It doesn’t look like it’s been reviewed on here before. Just other Party Animal products. Maybe it’s the coconut oil that’s got him all nutty. Anyone ever tried???

[theBCnut]

I don’t do much for fleas. I think what I feed helps me to not have a very big flea issue. I do use some essential oils in a water spray to repel fleas when the dogs go out off our property, and for a couple months over summer, I have to bathe them more frequently. If I have a year where the weather has made the fleas really bad, I’ll use just about anything to knock them down then frequent baths to keep them down. As far as what I feed, raw meat, garlic, apple cider vinegar.

I’ve used Sentinel, which has something that makes flea eggs not hatch out in it. I’ve used Interceptor and Comfortis, but not at the same time. I used Trifexis, before I knew better. My dog really had problems with it, in fact I eventually lost him because of it, but he had epilepsy and a few other issues that also affected his life expectancy.

Currently, I use Heartgard or sheep ivomec.

[theBCnut]

Depending on the raw food, it may be 66% protein and 34% fat and still be ok, or 50%protein and 25% fat and 25% carbs and still be ok. You want fat to be about half of the protein level. Some dogs do better with higher fat though. My dogs do just fine with the fat level being 2/3 the protein level, but I don’t normally feed that high.

[brit]

my dog does not seem to have a problem with the sweet potato but if he did, I agree that pumpkin would be a good option. He weighs 55lbs and gets maybe 1/2 a medium size sweet potato, a TBL goat yogurt and probably just 1/4cup of the canned salmon and a drizzle of olive oil. Tonight for dinner he got about 5ozs raw beef heart and a cup of the crushed veggies and a tsp of his cod liver oil (just twice a week). I also add a TBL each of sunflower seeds and pumpkin seeds (raw) to his veggies as I crush them and I think he gets his Vit E and zinc from that. He has environmental allergies that seem to come every winter, first I thought it was food but after spending a fortune on rabbit etc turns out its not. brit 🙂

[Naturella]

@Oleanderz, we have the same dog puzzle at home! Bruno loves it! 😀 And she is just adorable. She’s not huge, but probably still can be classified as a “large breed”? Idk… Sorry. We got just a small guy, and the roommate’s dog is about 55-60 lbs, but she doesn’t look too big either. I think the medium bags of each food should be lasting her about a month, no? How long does each of the large EB bags last her? Also, on sportdogfood.com all of the GF Victor bags come only in 30-lb bags, just FYI. But it’s still a great food, and even if all the other bags you feed are mediums, it’s fine if the Victor are the large ones.

Anyway, as for the tripling the toppers – I highly recommend buying this e-book: http://www.dogwise.com/ItemDetails.cfm?ID=DN330EBK – it is just under $3.00 but very informative about adding fresh toppers (such as eggs, canned sardines, raw or cooked meat) and in what proportions based on the dog’s weight. You won’t necessarily have to triple the toppers just because she weighs 3 times more than Bruno – maybe double them, the book will tell you, particularly about the eggs and sardines. But, for example, Bruno used to eat 1/2 of what Casey (our roommate’s dog) eats, and she ate 2 cups of food/day, at 55-60 lbs. He ate 1 cup ever since we got him at under 10 lbs or so,
and a little pup. When I began introducing toppers, I put him on 3/4 cups of dry/day, and then added toppers and treats, and that was when we were exercising very vigorously in the summer. I think then he was getting a bit more than 1 cup dry calorie-wise, but he was burning it off and his body needed the extra boost. Now he’s at 1/2 cup dry with toppers (we’re not getting as much exercise :/ ), so calorie-wise he’s still at around 3/4-1 cup per day, and then the occasional treat. I watch more his body condition than weight, and speaking of, here is a good link for that too: http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=8&ved=0CDMQFjAH&url=http%3A%2F%2Fresearch.unc.edu%2Ffiles%2F2012%2F11%2FCCM3_032387.pdf&ei=M5jjVJCwLYOuggSfnoSwAw&usg=AFQjCNHtVxv9oSG6wDJy-eYgbHFmyKag_Q&sig2=T1KHIfunn_GiCqOKGXYcfg&bvm=bv.85970519,d.eXY 4-5 is ideal, so that’s what we strive to keep Bruno at. That’s what I should strive for myself, lol!

And lol! Well, whatever works for you, your fam, and Luci! LoL. And good, glad we’ll be having you around! 🙂

[Naturella]

@Oleanderz, I would probably be the odd man out here, because I don’t see most of what I do for Bruno as “spoiling” although others have told me that he is spoiled, lol. If I feed him good food with good toppers, take him to the dog park, play with him, do his nails, brush and bathe him, get him healthy treats and keep track of what treats he likes (it is pretty easy – he likes everything, lol), get him a new antler when the old one is almost chewed up, get him novel chews/toys, I don’t see any of it as spoiling. Now… we’re not really into dressing him up and probably wouldn’t buy him doggie shoes unless we lived somewhere real hot or real cold most of the year, so he only has one raincoat that he doesn’t like so he never wears, lol. Only clothes we would get him are probably NY Jets gear, lol! 🙂

And we don’t really know his Birthday, but it is probably something like early March… March 1st maybe, IDK. So I can just pick a date, but I am so finicky, I can’t decide when I want to think he was born, lol. But I do know the day we adopted him, July 27th, 2013, so that’s his “gotcha” day and I didn’t celebrate it last year, but I want to from now on. I would probably feed him a balanced all-raw meal or something, go to the park/lake, let him run, play, swim, then wash him up and snuggle him up!

I guess one way we “spoil” him is that during the night he’s not allowed on our bed – he sleeps at the foot of the bed in his favorite bean bag, which used to be my husband’s desk chair, lol. Well, Bruno claimed it and we let him, especially because Brian has an office chair now. So Bruno has the bean bag, and a bed in the bathroom (Costco bed, really nice, washable covers), and a bed on the deck that used to be his bathroom bed till he started eating his RMBs on it, so now it’s an outside bed for that purpose, just to eat RMBs on. Nowadays he has dried chicken or duck feet inside instead of an RMB on Sunday, cause it’s been so cold, but when it warms back up, he will have his RMBs again!
But, back to the spoiling – in the morning, when we start waking up, Bruno wakes up too and sleepily staggers onto the bed and comes over to shower us with puppy kisses, and we snatch him up, put him under the covers with us, and snuggle him for some snooze time. He loves snoozing in our arms in the morning. He is so peaceful and cute when asleep/sleepy! So I guess that’s his daily spoiling. 🙂

[Naturella]

@Oleanderz, Lucille looks so cute in your pic! 🙂 But the link you posted says I don’t have permission to view it or something…

Yes, I would probably have her stay overnight. She won’t hate you, I promise. And yeah, I would say she is about medium… I think large breeds are the ones 50+ lbs when adults.

And awwh, you’re welcome! I hope it helps! I really tried to make it as diverse and balanced at possible. I would say that for a start, 4 brands are fine to rotate between. By the time you finish the suggested schedule, you can decide whether to repeat it or add more to the mix. I personally always add more, cause there are so many foods I want to try on Bruno, but many of the pros here stick to just a few brands and rotate between them and the flavors. I think 4 brands is a good start.

If Luci doesn’t have a grain allergy, it won’t hurt her to have grains again. It is only 2 formulas with grains anyway, and if you notice her reacting to them, just keep alternating between the Kinesis and RPM GFs.

Eggs: dogs’ digestive tracts are much shorter than ours, so the probability of them getting salmonella is much lower. They were meant to eat raw food. If it bugs you though, you can totally lightly or fully cook the whole egg and give it to her. You can use coconut or olive oil to cook it in, or no oil if you’re poaching it. It is, in fact, recommended that you lightly cook the egg white, and not cook the yolk at all, because there is an enzyme (I believe) in the egg white that could mess with the dog’s body properly absorbing the biotin in the yolk. If you cook the yolk, some of the biotin goes away too, is my understanding. So cook the egg white lightly. BTW, for Luci, I would probably give her 2 eggs together when I do give eggs, and a whole 3.5-oz can of sardines if I were to give her any. She is 3 times Bruno’s size after all. 🙂

Now, for food storage and rotation. As long as you keep it in a dark, cool, dry place, as long as you use it up by the BEST BY date, you should be fine. I personally have a bit of a stocking-up (NOT hoarding… Not yet, hopefully not ever!) problem with dog food because of amazing deals, so I basically stocked up enough food to last Bru till the end of this year. Luckily, I will be able to use it by or close to the BEST BY dates. But for the future, I would probably still get 3-4 months’ worth at a time, depending on deals, because in case a food doesn’t work out for him and I have to scrap it, I don’t want him to be foodless till I order or buy the next bag. So, what you can do, is stock up with say, the first line of medium-sized bags of EB, Dr Tim’s, Nulo, and Victor (medium-sized should be good, just so you see how she’s taking it) and start going through them and when you get to the Nulo, order the next line. This way you will always have about 4-5 bags at a time in case something goes wrong. Plus, at all times there will be an EB there if she can’t or won’t eat any of the other foods. But I hope she likes them!

As for the keeping track – make sure your family doesn’t feel like Big Brother is watching, lol. It is mostly important for feeding to keep track of times, amounts, and toppers, etc., as well as making sure no treats are given till she learns to eat her food quickly when put down. It shouldn’t take her too long. After that, still make sure she’s not getting too many treats to make her skip her next meal. And that’s about it. Exercising with a dog can be fun, so I’m sure someone will do something with daily, it doesn’t have to be super tracked, but you can do it if you want. I probably will track everything one day when we have kids and another dog though, lol! But that’s still far in the future.

One last thing that I’m sure you probably know, but I will just throw out there – all the foods in Luci’s future rotation, including EB, are pretty calorie-dense (Especially Dr. Tim’s Momentum). So keep track of how much she is being fed also, because she may just be one of those dogs that can self-regulate and between possibly too much food and too many treats, she is skipping meals. Use the bag feeding guidelines as a guideline only, not as a rule, and just adjust accordingly. She should have a waist when looked at from above, and her ribs should be easily-felt.

I am happy if I have been able to help with anything. Please do stay around in the forums, keep us posted, and let us know if you have any more questions! 🙂

[lovemypuppy]

The raw food that my pup eats is 31.25% fat, after converting to dry matter basis.

The catfish beams are around 4%, so not high in fat by any stretch of the imagination. Honestly, I don’t think either of the techs were familiar with Beams and just assumed fish skin = high fat.

I read that raw food needs to be no more than 60 calories per ounce, otherwise the fat content is too high. Our nuggets are 48 calories per ounce, but 31.25% fat seems kind of high. Hmmm. Always something more to learn or understand!

• This reply was modified 10 years, 10 months ago by lovemypuppy.

[lovemypuppy]

Thanks everyone for all the good information!

First let me say, I’m in my late 30’s and this is the first dog I’ve owned, lived with, or cared for. Not trying to use that as an excuse, it is what it is, but I’m definitely having a steep learning curve, and unfortunately it’s at the expense of my pup 🙁

I don’t know she has a food allergy or any type of allergy, but given her breed (Boston Terrier), finickiness, weight loss, red eyes, tear stains, brittle and dry fur, dry itchy skin, missing fur on her hind legs and behind her ears, and a few small scabs from scratching, I felt like it made sense to try to switch to raw with minimal ingredients in hopes of improving her overall health and identifying any potential allergens.

Unfortunately, I didn’t come to this conclusion until after giving her WAY TOO MANY different types of animal proteins (kibble, wet, freeze dried, toppers, etc.) while trying to find a food (and training treat) she’d settle on. I’m sure it didn’t help that she also went through quite a few different foods with the breeder when she was having a hard time weaning.

At this point, I’m not sure it would be possible for me to pinpoint a specific food that might be causing her skin and fur issues. The animal proteins she’s had the most of are chicken, beef, and turkey. Also, most of her symptoms were present before I started switching her food around and giving her novel animal proteins. So, if I had to take a guess, I would say she is having a hard time with turkey, chicken, and maybe lentils (they gave her horrid gas, anyway).

At this point, she’s been on the commercial raw for about a week and I’m seeing dramatic improvement. She still has tear stains, but I imagine that will take time (to grow out) and diligence on my end (wiping her face). She has gained weight and filled out, her coat is not nearly as dry (even shiny towards her back/spine) and her skin flaking and itchiness has lessened.

Given her overall improvement, I’m not inclined to switch her food yet again, especially if I can just stick with this for 10 weeks and see where she is at then (and if need be do more of a true elimination diet). I will stop the catfish skins (bummer) and try to find some type of low fat duck chew. I have sweet potato chews but she doesn’t really like them … they seem to crumble up and are more crunchy than chewy. Maybe if that’s her only choice though, she’ll learn to enjoy them 🙂

@DogFoodie, have you looked at Nordic Naturals Pet Collection? They use pharmaceutical grade, molecularly distilled fish oil, using sardine and anchovy oil or cod liver oil. Their pet line is pretty much the same as their human line with the exception of tocopherols as the preservative rather than rosemary extract. Just a thought.

If you read all of this, you rock! Sorry it’s so long and again thanks to all for offering your valuable insight!

[Oleanderz]

Naturella- Ok thank you, you just solved all my confusion with pumpkins in one strong swoop, much appreciated! (^_^ )
Yeah, it may be a good idea to have her stay overnight, I don’t want her tearing anything, just as long as I can pick her up first thing in the morning it won’t be such a bad option! She’s really not all that big, but I want to play it safe.
She is a Beagle/German Shepherd mix, I think it’s safe to say she’s she’s medium? She’s a 47 lb amalgamation of soft and sweet itself.
https://gm1.ggpht.com/fGVl0ACllCaI8E_fMSxsFCZ6m9dkCETYbrjeGi2WvfXB7UmvL5lSPo5CvFDLy6WOc6Ymbi-x-aoO9mbAWeeb9Bnd6NxTbf2ovM6JREChoSoUxCNPsuprZR28p94RPy14bRpotBDEOd2TBSjG4b8CNLcdvLEBXe9_3r4gCRh_YIfqA0hq0PuMRrbSIQ5tCwD3SQYenXHESFIjz1-cM8lZi4y7_-XGmriKFAjTddrO0d8MloZOuEA7rtZr__89K519ktBlZKqHsfXSscNpzj0guDviJdSKr7EYuYyU4TLocmDbd2VPUM1Ym0BC-gLfjUuKAsfuS7a8mXiwXwsEkeOd3O808oGSCPZkBx0L8GJLK0RdQC1PUMrf1ZOI3LURvQ-u5l14L-Hw13iwL0T-fiCvbmydda73dp1gJjikOD68_4ZfKZm3oUNh4h_J6WjnylgZLRKJE4cMAGsStwYKxDdb_tXEaXNn4Mp7W13Cb4WfI9boGueuYx8PVdgeMWNykxtyV3lAOIN1xpj_f93a3Z2o8bkuR9syPoXB1KxR02wKqDIVIuzGJLafAwZNFn2g04O1FA8yALE=w1342-h547-l75-ft
THANK YOU, YOU ARE HEAVEN SENT FOR THIS SCHEDULE!! I’ve been so worried at how I’d incorporate each flavor, I couldn’t decide on whether I’d want to continue using the brands over the course of the month switching the flavor or to switch the flavor everytime a different brand of food is introduced. Thank you!! Now do you think this is a pretty balanced schedule or should I add another brand into it? Or should I just stick with the four I have on that list?
No, I don’t think she does, but she did get itchy all the time before I started feeding her EB. One day I just looked it up online and it said that some grains can be associated with skin issues. So I decided to go with EB:GF…. Come to think of it, it might’ve been the brand we bought back then. I’ll look into it with her vet, but would it hurt her at all if I DID included a grain included brand since she’s been of it for so long?
Cool! Thanks! With eggs. I see a lot of people on this site giving their dog raw eggs?? Can’t dogs get salmonella like that? Can I cook her egg and add it as a topping? Now one last question. Do you buy all the food at the same time? Or do you wait until the rotation is just about up and then order it? I don’t want anything to be rotting by the time we go to eat it. If Lucille’s EB remains gets unsealed I put all of her food inside of a air tight food vault, I usually never buy more than two 28 lb bags at a time.
Thank you for all of the helpful charts and tips I’m going to get a marker board for Luci’s feeding schedules and food times. I start with the old food to new food ratio plan as well. I’ll also provide some incentive for my brothers to be more proactively engaged with her walks, training and play time too. Hmm, now that you’ve mentioned Excel signatures though, it does seem like a good method, this way I can keep track of who’s goofing off.
I’ll certainly keep everyone updated on when I start and how it’s progressing! I apprecciate all the help!!! (^w^ )<3
(Yay for little bags of Dr. Tim’s woohoo!!)

[Dog_Obsessed]

Hi mountainhound,
While I am not usually in favor of feeding prescription foods, I completely support Akari’s decision to do so. Since Ginger was on low-quality food for most of her life, tolerating a high-quality food was extremely hard for her, and gave her frequent bouts of loose stools. The prescription food, while better than many prescription foods, she is able to tolerate. It has also helped her joints tremendously, though I know this is not the case for all dogs. While raw food can be a great thing for some dogs, it is not the right thing for all dogs in all situations.

[lovemypuppy]

Thanks, that make sense to avoid the animal protein sources across the board, from food to chews and everything in between. I guess I was secretly hoping that wasn’t the case.

Right now, I’m feeding a commercial raw diet that contains salmon oil and duck as the only animal protein sources.

For chews, I’m giving catfish skins (Beams) but not sure if that is OK since catfish is a different type of fish than salmon.

[lovemypuppy]

I switched my 11 week puppy about a week ago to a raw commercial diet. I wanted to avoid giving kibble and raw in the same meal since they digest at considerably different rates. Instead, I planned on making 1 out of 4 daily meals raw, and then slowly working up to 4 out of 4 meals being raw when the transition was complete. This didn’t end up working for us because as soon as she got her first taste of raw, she refused to eat even a single kibble. Despite a fast transition, or lack there of, she did very well with no GI upset. I did give canned pureed pumpkin for a few days to help prevent any potential GI upset.

[lovemypuppy]

I switched my puppy at 10 weeks to a commercial raw diet. She’s been on it for only a week but already appears healthier. I chose Primal Formulas because there are 8 different formula options, it’s convenient (pre-portioned into 1 ounce nuggets), it is rated for all life stages with a calcium to phosphorus ratio of 1.2:1, and the ingredient list is commendable, IMO, with all veggies being organic and the addition of fish oil, apple cider vinegar, and coconut oil. The only supplements that are added are zinc, copper, and selenium – the rest is all food derived.

[brit]

I use eggshells for calcium if I am cooking the meat or using raw meat without bones. We use organic eggs for ourselves and our pets so I collect at least 6 eggshells, rinse the shells with cool water and leave to dry overnight. I put them in my little Braun coffee grinder (also handy for grinding dry herbs etc) and grind them to a powdery consistency. Use approx 1/2tsp per lb of meat. If I give chicken necks that morning (usually give them at least twice a week)I don’t worry about calcium that evening I buy Wholistic Pet Canine Complete and use on the food (I use half the dose that they suggest) as a supplement plus some herbs that I grind and add. During the winter I give a tsp of Carlsons Cod Liver Oil (unflavored) a couple times a week (its low in A and D which is good as some is way to high). I make all my own dog food but often cook and also often feed raw (usually Primal raw). So if I am buying something like Primal I don’t need to add calcium because it has bone ground in. Usually breakfast is cooked sweet potato/plain goat yogurt/raw egg yolk although often I buy canned Alaskan salmon, rinse it and use a small amount. Then evening meal is either the Primal with crushed raw veggies (I put them through my Greenstar Juicer which has a gadget that allows them to come through whole but crushed) or cooked meat with the veggies. If I have a dog that needs to gain weight I throw in some organic oat flakes while meat is cooking.

• This reply was modified 10 years, 10 months ago by brit.
• This reply was modified 10 years, 10 months ago by brit.

[mountainhound]

Rice is not a part of a raw diet, a lot of people do the prey model style because its easier, no grinding or blending veggies (most dogs dont need veggies)
Look info facebook groups and also this website which is a good starting guide to feeding raw, or you can always get some premade from a petstore like bravo, primal or vital essentials. http://puppybutt.weebly.com/uploads/7/6/9/2/7692088/beginners_guide_to_prey_model_raw_rv.4.1.pdf