[weezerweeks]

I have a yorkie but he weighs 7.3 lbs. I feed mine canned freeze dried and I cook for him too. I love wellness stews, weruva go fit , fromn. I give him for treats blueberries, raw carrots, bananas, apples. I give him Nordic natural fish oil(3days a week) and organic coconut oil 3 times a week. I ‘venever had much experience with one that large. Good luck with ur new baby. They are my absolutely favorite breed. This is my second one and I’m trying to talk hubby into a little female.

[olive1015]

I’ve brought in a little Yorkshire terrier I saved and I’d appreciate any advise in getting her good vitamins and grooming products. Vet says she’s approx. 16-18 mths / 15 lbs. I’ve had her spayed and chipped as of May. I’ve been feeding her a mix of Purina One and Nutrisca along with raw carrot chips (she loves loves loves) …and of course boiled chicken and canned salmon now and then but her coat doesn’t yet have a nice sheen to it.

I just checked my Nutrisca to make sure it wasn’t a part of their salmonella recall and thank goodness it wasn’t. Any advise for this darling would be so greatly appreciated.

[Jonathan S]

I’m switching my dogs to Acana. I chose to go to Acana rather than Orijen because of their varieties, especially the single protein source versions they have.

Have you considered making your own raw or cooked food and actually have that lovely food come from your own hands? I do that and it makes me feel very in touch with my dogs.

[Jonathan S]

I have two border collies… 9 months and 11 months. They’re very fickle about their protein sources… Both are intolerant of bison and venison, one can handle beef but the other cannot. Both are sensitive to changes in fats in their diet… too much fat causes them some nasty stools, but too little and they get dry and itchy.

I had them on Taste of the Wild for a long time, but they get really twitchy moving from one mix to another. I’m starting them on Acana Sport and Agility this week. I feed them half raw food as well.

Remember with borders that their metabolism tends to run hot due to their need to work and possibly work long past exhaustion. If you normally feed once a day you might want to consider twice a day for the BC.

[Carter S]

Thanks for taking the time to reply and for sharing your thoughts!

Bamm-Bamm is 7 and has been on and off of Orijen a few times. It was the first food I fed him but when his stools failed to solidify (the best it got was something between diarrhea and soft serve ice cream), I switched him to a brand that I’m having difficulty remembering but it was much like Acana. Unfortunately, after a few years, it was bought out by one of the large companies (Hills or such) and some change occurred that I’m just vaguely remembering. I then had him on Acana for a couple years.

In the beginning he liked it. Then he’d eat it for 2 weeks and then start skipping meals. Then I’d change meats and he’d eat that for a week or two before sticking up his nose, until finally I switched him to NOW. It’s been great because the kibbles are big, the profile looks good and he loves it. Unfortunately, it is tied directly to the degree of build up in his ears.

I’ve tried a few others here and there over the last couple years but they’ve been worse insofar as the ear build up or GI distress to the point of liquid stools and constant audible stomach gaseousness prior to severe and ongoing flatulence.

As of right now, I’m thinking of going back to Acana and supplementing it with a raw frozen or freeze dried or canned equivalent for taste but will look into options you suggested.

Thanks again!

CS

[Anonymous]

“I don’t know what’s causing my poor puppy to be sick like this constantly. I want to find the cause and get him treated ASAP. I heard from a vet tech friend of mine that raw diet will cause bladder and UTI problems. I asked my current vet and they said it is possible. Is this true? Why can other dogs thrive on it but not mine?”

If it’s not the diet…his problems may have a genetic component. We can’t control genetic, but we can make changes regarding diet, exercise (external things) and see if that makes a difference.
I would consider asking your vet for a referral to a specialist, if he can’t get to the bottom of it.
BTW: Maybe you know this already, but corgis are high energy working dogs (herding). They love to eat and tend to put weight on easily. I had to walk mine 5 miles a day to keep her in shape. Hope this helps.

[Lori J M]

When I decided to switch my dogs from Orijen, I took months researching and deciding on Merrick. My dogs love it and variety is terrific. I’m so disappointed! Back to the drawing board.

[Pitlove]

Eh I use a prong collar for Bentley (I exhausted all other options first for his pulling), however I took the time to watch proffessional trainers show how to properly put them on. Aside from that I had the same idea of SkeptVet lol. Not to mention he doesn’t actually post scientific evidence stating the raw diets are pointless, he simply says there is no scientific studies showing the benefits. Not to mention science is changing all the time, therefore, as all my human bio, psych and regular biology teachers have told us, there is no absolute truth in science. Not to mention all the feeding trials that people want to see to prove whether or not a food works successfully do not show long term (5+ years) effects of use. It would be impossible to have a feeding trial last that long. Thats why despite it not being “scientific”, people’s experiences with prolonged longevity in their dogs based on whatever diet they are feeding has to be taken into account.

[Pitlove]

I have. He is extremely against raw diets. All he talks about is how there is no evidence stating the need for a raw ancestral diet and there is too much risk of bacterial contamination. The OP doesn’t need someone who isn’t going to objectively say ‘ok lets try to figure this out and not jump to the conclusion that it’s the raw diet’.

Third article down in that link and the next 2 prove my point.

• This reply was modified 10 years, 5 months ago by Pitlove.
• This reply was modified 10 years, 5 months ago by Pitlove.

[Pitlove]

My dog had the same thing happen on Sojo’s freeze dried. Very very weird. He normally poops 2 times a day MAYBE 3 if he ate something that is causing loose poop or diaherra, but normally 2. All the sudden on Sojo’s he’s pooping 3-4 times a day. They were small compact solid poops, but he was going way more frequently. Another poster on here, Dori, mentioned that her dog did the same thing. It’s got to be something with freeze dried raw. Personally I’m stopping the Sojo’s to see if there is an improvement. I know you don’t want to change foods again, but you might need to look into something else for his diet.

[Pitlove]

It’s unlikely the raw diet is causing the UTI’s, but it isn’t impossible. Raw diets have extremely high moisture content and should be flushing the kidneys out enough to stop the formation of crystals. That being said, perhaps there is an ingredient in the diet or another cause that is forming the UTI’s.

Consulting and working with your vet is great, but like with humans sometimes one persons opinion is not enough to solve the problem and one person might not have all the info. I would highly suggest contacting other vets and possibly even a nutritionist to make sure the raw diet you are feeding is appropriate and doesn’t contain anything that could be causing these frequent UTI’s.

Edit: For the record, SkeptVet is not the only source on the internet and he already has a bias opinion about raw.

• This reply was modified 10 years, 5 months ago by Pitlove.

[CornchipCorgi]

My puppy is now an 8 month old corgi. Shortly after getting him from his breeder we transitioned him to a raw diet. However starting in January when he was about 2 months old he’s had recurring UTIs. Since then we have visited the vet 3 times and had him on 4 different antibiotics. From what they told us he has crystals in his urine because his urine has a very low pH. We feed him cranberry powder with his raw.

I don’t know what’s causing my poor puppy to be sick like this constantly. I want to find the cause and get him treated ASAP. I heard from a vet tech friend of mine that raw diet will cause bladder and UTI problems. I asked my current vet and they said it is possible. Is this true? Why can other dogs thrive on it but not mine?

[crazy4cats]

Pitlove-
You’re welcome! Yes, I always have it in fridge for two days. I feed them fresh foods or frozen raw on their kibble for the afternoon meal and canned for morning meals. I have kept it just fine for three days when I forget there is already one open in the fridge with no issues. Lol! Shoot, sometimes my human family eats left overs that are in there much longer than that! You’ll get your routine figured out.

[Pitlove]

I was thinking coconut oil as it is high in calories, however it’s so high that I’d be concerned about it being counter productive to her weight loss.

Hopefully a more experienced raw feeder can help you, as I’m not. Mainly just wanted to come in and say how awesome it is that you decided to switch to all raw for your girl! Much more appropriate for a senior dog 🙂

[Jonathan S]

Are you giving her raw meaty bones? That would add some calories. You could go with turkey necks, lamb shanks, chicken wings, duck feet, etc.

[Kona]

Hi all. I have been transitioning my dog (11 years old) to raw food over the past month. I have been feeding raw for breakfast and kibble at dinner, mainly because of the costs. However, she’s doing so well on the raw I’ve decided to suck it up and go completely raw (if it means I have to eat out less then that’s what I have to do). I have her on AllProvide turkey and beef. I have a couple questions and was hoping some of the more experienced raw feeders could help:

1) AllProvide packages in 16oz pouches. According to her “ideal” weight (she’s 75 lbs now but I’d like to see her down to 68-70 lbs) the food chart says she should have 22 oz per day. I’d like to keep her on one pouch per day. Any ideas on how I can supplement the additional 6 oz? I feed raw goat’s milk so there are some calories there. She also gets a few “treats” – cucumbers, sweet potato biscuits, but maybe only 100-150 calories. I bought some grass-fed beef organs – liver, kidney, heart. Should I add some of this to her food (AllProvide already includes these though in the food so I wasn’t sure if that would be too much)? Anything else I can add to reach her 22 oz?

2) She seems to digest it too quickly, which on one hand is good since i know she’s digesting it better than kibble but the problem is by late afternoon she will throw up a little bile (ever since she was a puppy this happens whenever her stomach is empty for too long). I’ve been having to put a little kibble in her kong when i leave for work to prevent this. I’d hate to keep adding kibble to her diet since I’ll be going completely raw. Anything I can add or suggestions?

Thanks!

[Jonathan S]

I’m sure this has probably been covered before, but I’m looking for a recommendation for a supplement to help cover itchy, dry skin on my dogs.

I’m in the process of rotating my dogs off their current kibble (they’re on the last of their Taste of the Wild) and on to Acana/Orijen, so I’m hoping that the change in food will help. This bloom of dry skin comes with a combination of changing the TotW mix from fish to lamb, and some hot dry weather here in Seattle. I’m also feeding my dogs raw food as half of their diet and they’re doing well with that.

I’ve experimented with a number of food supplements. The most recent that seems to work well for them digestively is Flora4. I do include coconut oil in their diet, but sometimes the additional fat can have some effects on their stool quality. I see commercials on TV for Dinovite, but I’m pretty sure that’s not where I want to go.

Anyone have any suggestions?

[Taylor C]

Hi! I have a boxer/pit mix with severe skin allergies. About 6 weeks ago, we switched her over to Grandma Lucy’s Pureformance food and within a week saw a difference in her skin condition. While we’ve been very happy with the food and results, our dog has been pooping a lot more (3 – 6x/day, very soft) and has lost some weight as a result. And feeding her larger amounts only seems to make her poop that much more. She’s also had a lot more gas than usual. We’ve tried so many different foods, raw diet, countless rounds of steroids and antibiotics prior to discovering Grandma Lucy’s and nothing has worked. We love Grandma Lucy’s and really don’t want to switch foods again, so I’m wondering if anyone knows of a supplement or food we could add to her meals that may help her absorb the nutrients better and reduce the number of poops. I’ve recently begun adding chia seeds and apple cider vinegar, along with a little plain Greek yogurt here and there. Thanks in advance!

[InkedMarie]

At the cost of canned, you’d find it cheaper to feed raw grinds. Companies to look at are Hare Today, Reel Raw Dog, My Pet Carnivore and Raw Feeding Miami. If you happen to be in the northeast, Pawfectly Raw NE.

I buy grinds with bone, add a little boneless (from the store), weigh it, add the few supplements I use and feed.

[Jonathan S]

There are lots of great recipes out there… here’s a great video I found on it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9o_IOwiCN2I What these people do for their pups is amazing. I don’t have quite that capacity.

Most experts will tell you to feed raw separate from kibble because of the time it takes to digest (kibble burns faster than raw). I found with my dogs when I feed the raw separate from the kibble, they get very sick… one of my pups vomited within two hours of me feeding straight raw. I went back to serving raw at the same time as kibble and they were right as rain… I think the raw was just too rich for them.

I don’t see anything wrong with just feeding ground meat, but remember that there are other nutrients they need that they won’t get there alone. Just look at the ingredients on this website and where dogfoodadvisor.com praises 5 star foods for their good ingredients, and more importantly WHY they praise them. Personally, since getting on this site I’ve been reading reviews and where possible I’ve been including those beneficial ingredients in my mix. Currently my recipe is 2 lbs ground rabbit with bone(expensive!), 2lbs ground chicken or turkey, 1 pound ground lamb, 1.5 pounds chicken hearts/gizzards, 1 pound of reconstituted dehydrated lamb green tripe, 4 raw eggs, 2 cups of blueberries, two apples shredded, three carrots, some small peas, half a mango, mix of greens (I use Green Juju or the local equivalent), hemp seed hearts, pumpkin puree, coconut oil, turmeric. I also play around with some other additives like Firm Up just to see how they perform. Anything not already ground goes through the food processor to break it up for the pups to digest. That recipe gets me approximately 20 x 12oz containers which is enough for 10 days for both my dogs. No, it’s not cheap.

I like feeding half raw to half kibble because the kibble gives me a safety net in case I’m missing some vital piece of nutrition. As I continue to refine my mix, I’m hoping to change to 75% raw to 25% kibble. Going to wait until after their next vet visit to make sure I’m on the right track.

You can do it cheaper than I do. Just find the things your dog likes (apple slices, carrots, blueberries) and throw them in their with the meat… see how he does. The best recommendations for portion size I have seen is 2 – 4% of the dog’s body weight in raw per day if you’re feeding 100% raw. If you’re going to do half and half, cut the amount of kibble you’re feeding in half, then cut the amount of recommended raw in half. For me, that comes out to 1 cup of raw and 1 cup of kibble per day, per dog. I feed them twice a day.

Also, don’t feed raw raw if your dog is a grazer… they need to finish it when you put it out. Don’t want raw meat sitting around!

[Pitlove]

C4C- When I started giving him canned I gave him a whole can with his dry food on top because he wouldn’t eat any other way. I didn’t want to fight with him anymore about eating and was worried about him going days without eating. I cut back on the dry food to make sure he didn’t gain too much weight and he hasn’t which is good. Now that he is on Nature’s Logic he will eat without canned which is something that impressed me about the food as I mentioned on the NL review. I’ve thought about stopping the canned or the dehyrated raw, but I can’t bring myself to only feed him kibble. Thats why I thought about adding the ground beef or turkey. But you’re right. I never thought of how much kibble he would need to balance the raw. The recommeneded amount on the bag for a less active dog, which he is right now because of the humidity, is 2 cups a day. I’ve been giving him 1/2 a cup of the Sojo’s and 1/2 of the Nature’s Logic. But does that actually equal out to 1 cup considering they are different types of food? I watch his weight constantly and he gets weighed pretyy frequently. He’s still at his ideal weight so I haven’t changed the way I’m feeding him.

Just looking for a more affordable way to feed him and keep him healthy. It’s so hard 🙁

[crazy4cats]

Hi Pitlove-
It does get expensive, doesn’t it? I remember reading one of your posts and was surprised/impressed at how much canned you were feeding your pup per meal! I thought, wow, lucky dog! I only give my dogs a couple of spoonfuls of canned per meal. For two 80 lb. dogs, the can lasts for two meals each. So, you could cut back a little on how much topper you are using to save a little money. The joy of the canned and dehydrated raw is that they are both balanced “add-ins”. If you start adding ground meat, it isn’t balanced and you have to be careful with how much you add.
I have thought exactly about what you are thinking many times because it does get expensive and I get real tired of so MANY cans between my dogs and cats, but haven’t quite figured out yet either how much to add per meal to avoid feeding them unbalanced meals.
Another option could be to mix some ground meat with a base or premix such as THK and use that as a topper. I was contemplating that as well, but my dogs, unfortunately, do not like The Honest Kitchen recipes! Good luck! I hope you get some good ideas!

[losul]

Hi Red. I do think it’s important to use caution with these things. Even if a vet were to give instructions to give antacids/inhibitors to my dog (or even a Doctor to me) on any kind of regular basis, I would be asking questions and investigating, is it acid reflux? what is causing it, how do I get to he root of the problem, and not just treat symptoms, what could/would be the consequences, could it actually be caused by low stomach acid, etc..
———–
Hi Sue, I’m sorry couldn’t respond sooner, my time is limited lately, and having internet troubles on top of that.. I don’t find much about lymphocytic gastritis in dogs, or at least searching those 2 particular words alone. In humans, “Lymphocytic gastritis is a rare gastritis primarily diagnosed by the surgical pathologist. There is a peculiar infiltration of benign lymphocytes into the glands and surface mucosa. It may be associated with celiac disease and Helicobacter infection of the stomach. There are case reports of clearing of the disease by treatment for Helicobacter infection in the stomach.”

http://www.thedoctorsdoctor.com/diseases/stomach_lymphocytic_gastritis.htm

In dogs, most of the hits I came up as canine lymphocytic-plasmacytic gastroenteritis and is still of unknown causes(idiopathic). “Canine lymphocytic-plasmacytic gastroenteritis(LP) is one disease in a group of idiopathic, chronic intestinal diseases collectively termed inflammatory bowel disease (IBD), and is considered to be the most common cause of chronic vomiting and diarrhea in dogs. LP gastroenteritis is characterized by a diffuse infiltration of lymnphocytes and plasma cells into the lamina propria of the stomach and/or the small intestine resulting in diffuse mucosal inflammation. Lymphocytic-plasmacytic is the most prevalent form of IBD.”

https://www.addl.purdue.edu/newsletters/2007/Fall/clpg.html

Kind of a side note, and really just a curiosity, I found this study to be of interest, specially the apparent surprising resolution of the disease state, after all the numerous testing and therapies failed, and when the client was finally discouraged by no improvements, stopped all of it.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1082873/

The “fundic region” would be the upper main portion of the stomach and should generally be much less acidic, especially at the beginninh process of digestion than the the lower portions. I think that would likely be why Patch’s diagnosis comments read that Helicobacter was usually more prominent in the fundic (less acidic) region.

“•The fundus, which is the main upper portion of the stomach. Fundus means
“enlargement” and refers to the rounded enlarged area at the top of the stomach.
Food gets ground, mixed, and held in the fundus. It is in the fundus that enzymatic
digestion takes place, assuming there are live enzymes present with your meals (or
if you are using digestive enzyme supplements). Although stomach acid will be
released into the fundus, IT IS ONLY AT ABOUT 30% CONCENTRATION and will not affect
enzymatic digestion. After about 40-60 minutes in the fundus, the chyme will move
on into the body of the stomach.”

“•The body, which is the large middle section of the stomach. It is a primary area
of digestion, and it is here that hydrochloric acid and pepsin begin to work full
bore, and at levels sufficient to stop most enzymatic digestion.

•The antrum, which is the last part of the stomach before the pylorus, the gate
which prevents food from entering the intestine before its time. Actually, the
major portion of digestion takes place in the antrum as food is held a long time
and parceled out to the duodenum in a very slow, methodical manner. Incidentally,
antrum means cave and pylorus means gatekeeper.”

Your Stomach, Part 1

I think there’s some REALLY good articles/summaries on that site, especially
pertaining to human digestive/gastric systems, but most of it would be relevant to dogs
also. He does deal with alternatives/naturapathic/holistic, and does also sell
supplements, I don’t necessarily agree with all he says, but I think it’s one of
the most comprehensive, complete, and easiest to understand articles/primers on
digestion I’ve seen.here is the article “your stomach, part 3” , which may most
pertain, especially to the significant importance of acid in digestion/health, but
be sure to read all parts 1,2,3. and the overview on digestion also. In fact most of the whole digestion series is a good read.

Your Stomach, Part 3

http://jonbarron.org/article/overview-digestive-system#.Va1zwGd0w5s

Digestive System

I’m not sure where the “water” would be coming from after Patch ate his raw. Not
excessive saliva? Did you add water to the raw food? Adding water would dilute his
acid production. I’m not sure if you are saying that he threw up the raw or just
water? The enzymes i think should be even more important/purposeful on cooked
foods more so than raw. What kind of enzymes are they? Just go very slow on them at first. I would think Patch’s bio-fauna is much out of whack, and needs to be re-established with good bacteria. He may have mineral/vitamin deficiencies also. I was a little surprised that tha naturpath wanted to immediately switch Patch to raw. I would be a little hesitant to go full force raw right away, knowing Patch’s condition, which is why it’s important to be upfront with the
naturopath as much as possible. Has the naturpath seen Patch, or was it just a
consult? Is it Lew Olson?

If it were me, I would take just baby steps, but I’d give the Naturpath’s advice a
fair shot, and keep her/him informed. Not make too many changes all at once, or
expect too much all at once. Build up very slowly on everything, the probiotics,
the enzymes, the cooked or raw foods.Has Patch been weaned off antacids since the
Helicobacter treatment and fairly stable most of the time with what he’s eating
now? Can you try to introduce just a snack size meal of cooked along with
appropriate small portion enzymes or maybe later raw in between those regular
meals, and just very gradually increasing while decreasing the regular? I’m not
familiar with Roo meat, how easy to digest, how much fat, saurated fats, etc. I
think in the U.S. it’s thought that lean chicken is one of the easiest proteins to
digest, along with well cooked white rice. Vets often advise this temporarily for
gastric distress (provided they don’t have a sensitivity to chicken) and it works
for many dogs. I’ve heard you say that Patch and grounded rice don’t get along? I
don’t understand what you mmean by grounded. In the U.S. white rice is milled and
has the husk, bran and germ removed, leaving virtually only the starchy interior,
it’s usually then “enriched” with some vitamins/minerals. Should be fairly easy to
digest by most dogs. Eventually though I would want to get him off all that starch,
and get him on a more balanced diet. Are you giving him any vitamins/minerals at
all?

On another note, there are a couple of U.S. vets now using fecal matter transplants
for dogs, from only verified healthy donor dogs of course. For humans, it’s
catching on a bit more now, even in a few hospitals, with very promising results from persistent or recurrent IBD, SIBO, colitis, that is usually caused by
persistent, pathogenic, and resistant overgrowths/infections.

Sue, Maybe Patch can’t be completely cured, but I believe with the determination
you’ve shown and continue to show, he WILL get better. There’s alot of people
rooting for you and Patch, I know that I’m one of those!

P.S. I might not be able to write back for a while again.

———————
Hi weezerweeks, y/w.

I understand your concerns with Bailey. Best wishes for his best health!

Let us know how the vet visit goes.

[Pitlove]

Hey all-

I usually feed my pitbull dry kibble with canned. Recently, I’ve been feeding kibble with dehydrated raw. Both are costing me a lot of money because of how quickly a 68lb dog goes through canned food etc. I was considering getting raw ground beef or turkey and adding a small amount of that to his dry kibble as a topper. I’m thinking with sales etc, it could be most cost effective than buying canned or dehydrated raw. Any thoughts on that?

Also, is it really just as simply as taking the raw ground up meat alone and using it with an already complete and balanced kibble? Or do I need to be adding something to this mixture?

Oh also, how long can that be left in the freezer for so I can know how much to buy

• This topic was modified 10 years, 5 months ago by Pitlove.

[Kristin C]

Well thanks for not slamming me pitlove, I kind of gathered it was a little more fierce weather down there:) I think giving heartworm during mosquito season is a must, which is what we do up here in CT.

From what I understand fleas and ticks are most likely to gather on a compromised host, a pet with a weakened immune system. Since our dogs eat raw liver, liver treats, and they are currently getting B-complex vitamins each night, I am finding it has worked so far and just wanted to mention it. I understand the need in the south will be more aggressive than what i do up here.

[Kristin C]

If those are the 2 you are deciding upon I would say start with Acana and move up to Orijen. Although, Orijen sounds like they are changing their formula next year since they now have a Kentucky plant.

Have you looked at Farmina?

I feed mostly raw, but I feed kibble a few times per week and have been rotating the brands for variety. If I fed kibble exclusively I would probably change the brand with each bag to give the most variety.

[Kristin C]

Hi-no one has mentioned this so I will. I live in CT so I know the circumstances are different, but I do hate treating my dogs with chemicals. We use Advantix on our 2 pups every 6 weeks normally. For their last treatment, instead of a full dose, we gave them half of a dose PLUS I have been giving them B-complex in their food each night. No ticks, no fleas. If it continues we will eliminate the Advantix, but I am sure we will not be able to eliminate it completely, we always treat them with a full dose of Advantix before we travel.

I will also add that they eat mostly a raw diet so they get B vitamins through the liver they eat, which is apparently what naturally repels the fleas and ticks.

[Kristin C]

I have tried the trial size on the Better in the Raw products and although my dogs did fine on it, by my calculations it can be expensive to use on a regular basis. Has anyone else found this?

[Jon K]

Hi,
today I posted what is to follow in the wrong place (budget friendly thread) so I’m now posting it here. Sorry for the confusion.

I’m new here. Have a 2 yr old Boston who eats Vital Essentials Frozen Raw Beef. She seems to do very well on it.
I joined this group because we just got a new Boston puppy and I wasn’t sure that the same food was ideal for a puppy.
So because of the editors list, he’s now eating Stella’s Super Beef and seems to be doing great.
My 2 year old tried the Stella’s before and I’m not sure why but we ended up with her eating Vital Essentials.
So thanks for this list because I was very confused and conflicted as to what to feed the puppy and this gave me the info I needed.
So I was surprised not to see Vital Essentials Frozen Raw on the list for adult dogs though. I’m curious as to why it is not. Any info would be appreciated.
thanks!

[Dori]

Thanks Sarah L. for the reply. I placed an order for the trial size and am going to give it a try. With the raw food recalls of the last few weeks I’m looking for alternatives. I appreciate your getting back to me and will do like wise in making larger batches and freeze. I only have the freezer at the bottom of fridge so I’ll use the Food Saver bags so that I can lay them flat since dear hubby insists we have some frozen people food also. Really, all he wants is some ice cream in the freezer and frozen fruits and veggies for the smoothies I make when fresh is not available.

[Jon K]

I’m new here. Have a 2 yr old Boston who eats Vital Essentials Frozen Raw Beef. She seems to do very well on it.
I joined this group because we just got a new Boston puppy and I wasn’t sure that the same food was ideal for a puppy.
So because of the editors list, he’s now eating Stella’s Super Beef and seems to be doing great.
My 2 year old tried the Stella’s before and I’m not sure why but we ended up with her eating Vital Essentials.
So thanks for this list because I was very confused and conflicted as to what to feed the puppy and this gave me the info I needed.
I was surprised not to see Vital Essentials Frozen Raw on the list for adult dogs though. I’m curious as to why it is not. Any info would be appreciated.
thanks!

[Pitlove]

Looks like you have good options. Are you going to be feeding canned, kibble and some form of raw all together? I tend to lean towards feeding just 2. I was feeding canned and kibble before and now I’m using kibble and Sojo’s dehydrated raw. I feel like if I added canned in there as well it would come to too many calories. I’m feeding 1/2 cup rehydrated Sojo’s and 1/2 Nature’s Logic kibble. I tried to feed him more than that and he couldn’t finish it, telling me I was feeding him too much. Feeding 1/2 and 1/2 he finishes all of it.

OR are you wanting to switch it up daily and do like some form of raw and kibble one meal and then like canned and a form of raw the next etc etc?

[Gracie’s Mom]

I get what you’re saying. I have been feeding Gracie dehydrated and freeze-dried raw, having not been successful with frozen, but I need more options in rotation so that she doesn’t get tired of any one food after a few weeks. Also, the expense of straight-up, prepared raw is very high. And, lastly, there’s the sometimes quite high fat content that is of concern (e.g., K9 Natural) in the dried raw foods. So, I’ve been on the hunt for several high quality kibbles and canned options to mix with dried raw, both to lower the overall cost and to put the fat in better balance. Does that make sense? I am willing to concede that allowing in some starches is going to be inevitable with this plan.

Here’s what I’ve come up with that could work for Gracie. The fat percentages are approximates based on the flavor that Mike reviewed.

Base Mix
Honest Kitchen Preference

Canned
Against the Grain (20% fat/protein ratio)
Chicken (but does contain potato starch)
Beef (but does contain potato starch)

Addiction (53% fat/protein ratio)
Hunter’s Venison
Herbed Duck Confit

Tripett (58% fat/protein ratio)
Green Bison Tripe
Original Green Beef Tripe
Green Beef Tripe and Venison
New Zealand Green Lamb Tripe
Green Beef Tripe, Duck and Salmon

ZiwiPeak (71% fat/protein ratio)
Beef
Lamb
Venison
Venison and Fish
Tripe, Lamb, and Venison

Dry Kibble:

Nulo Freestyle (48% fat/protein ratio)
Turkey and Sweet Potato
Salmon and Peas
Lamb and Chickpeas

Nulo Medal (51% fat/protein ratio)
Lamb and Lentils
Chicken and Peas
Salmon and Sweet Potato

Nature’s Variety Instinct Limited Ingredient (68% fat/protein ratio)
Turkey
Lamb
Duck

Acana Singles (56% fat/protein ratio)
Pork and Butternut Squash
Duck and Bartlett Pear
Lamb and Okanagan Apple

Wysong Epigen 90 (25% fat/protein ratio)
Chicken

Freeze Dried, Air Dried, or Dehydrated Raw:

K9 Natural (90%+ fat/protein ratio)
Venison (but does contain eggs, a borderline allergen)
Lamb (but does contain eggs, a borderline allergen)

Fresh Is Best (50% fat/protein ratio)
Chicken
Beef

Vital Essentials (79% fat/protein ratio)
Tripe
Beef
Chicken
Turkey

ZiwiPeak (79% fat/protein ratio)
Venison
Venison and Fish
Lamb
Beef

[Susan]

Hi Iosul, if Patch was your dog what would you do? When Patch had Endoscope & biopsies done last December 2014 the Diagnosis said “Moderate to chronic Lymphocytic Gastritis with associated spiral bacteria infection”.. her comment was “Helicobacter are controversial pathogens in dogs & cats being present in asymptomatic animals. Where there is significant pathology in combination with characteristic clinical signs they may be significant. It is more common to see larger numbers of them in the fundic region of the stomach. This could also be a manifestation of MORE EXTENSIVE inflammatory bowel disease..

The live Probiotics the Naturopath wanted him to take make him feel sick they’re gluten &
dairy free & are kept in the fridge I read that some probiotics can make you feel sick, the Naturopath said we need to fix his gut to get his stomach pH back to 1 again but Patch
kept regurgitating the raw diet water would come back up into his mouth & he would swallow & swallow it.. how I know it was water that was coming up is he went to look in my shopping bag to see what a lady had given me & he did his regurgitating all down the side of my bag, it just happens & he hadn’t drank any water only ate his kangaroo & 2 spoons of blended veggies about 3 hours after eating the raw for breakfast, then I thought maybe the enzymes broke the raw down too quick so I tried without the enzymes & Patch felt sick & was eating grass, like the Naturopath said would happen, I asked her what will the enzymes do she said stop any nausea & help stop any bowel rumbling & diarrhea….so I stopped the raw diet enzymes & probiotic & put him back on his kibble & started to cook but he regurgitated the cooked food as well & I never gave enzymes or probiotic, the thing is he doesn’t regurgitate soaked kibble or wet tin foods, then I thought could there be too much protein in the raw & cooked diet & he cant handle all that meat Kangaroo or beef.. where the wet tin food only has 7% (30%) protein.. the kibble he’s eating has about 22% protein.. I don’t know I cant work out how to fix him…. I will photo copy the link you posted… I need to find out how to make his gut healthy again.. I’ve tried low fat greek yogurt he started his licking & licking his mouth & wanted grass..
Lew Olson said give him L-Glutamine & cabbage juice to help with the nausea..

My vet said we may never fix this problem, at least he’s not in the condition he was in when you rescued him, I said, I suppose but I want him healthy & pain free 🙁

[Pitlove]

SkeptVet- I think you’re assuming that we are lumping all veterinarians together into one uneducated category. We’re not. We are fully aware that veterinary nutritionists exist and have extensive training in canine nutrition and that integrative vet’s also have more education on the subject as well. We are specifically talking about your run-of-the-mill, average vet that went through vet school and persuded nothing else in the way of canine nutrition education. If my vet can not have an intelligent, opened minded discussion about nutrition and food and is only pushing whatever presciption foods are on their shelves or only willing to recommend foods high in corn, wheat, soy, by-products and a bunch of other junk, I think it’s safe to assume they don’t have much training in nutrition, hence why I mentioned people’s testimonies of their vets flat out admitting they are NOT given much education about canine nutrition in vet school. Are they lying? Do you think they would put their reputation on the line by being dishonest about something like that? I don’t.

I also don’t really understand how it doesn’t make sense to you that a raw diet or homecooked diet would not be better for a species that existed for thousands of years without Science Diet and Purina. Commercial dog food has only existed for about the last 100 years, so tell me, what did dogs eat before that first bag of “dog food” was created?

Commercial dog food doesn’t exist because it is nutritionally more sound for dogs, it exists because of the convenience factor for the human providing for the dog. The average person does not have the time to prepare meals for themselves, let alone their animals, as their animals often come second to their human families and children.

• This reply was modified 10 years, 5 months ago by Pitlove.

[Pitlove]

So this brings us to the problem with kibble in general. Those starchy carbohyrate sources provide one main thing in kibble; a binder. In order to have it’s shape kibble needs a carbohydrate to bind the food together, therefore you will never see a kibble that is completely carb free. Wysong Epigen 90 is the closest thing at only 4% carbs. Impressive for a kibble. It is really a shame that Nature’s Logic has alfalfa in it because millet is a hypo-allergenic seed and is easily digested by dogs. Millet being the carb source in NL.

If your dog is prone to yeast, staying away from starchy carbs is best, but IMO the lesser of all the evils in that list is lentils and chickpeas.

Most people will tell you that completely getting rid of allergies requires a raw diet and to be honest thats probably true. But that would take working with a nutritionist and developing recipes that would work for her and then actually making them.

Canned foods also will offer you more choices that kibble of less grains and starches, however they are not without them. Maybe look into dehyrated raw?

Edit: Also on the subject of Tripe. Most tripe is not considered complete and balanced. I know Tripett isn’t for one. One that is complete and balanced is Solid Gold’s Green Beef Tripe. I’ve used that for my dog and he loved it. Didn’t smell bad to me either.

• This reply was modified 10 years, 5 months ago by Pitlove.

[InkedMarie]

The best food for a dog with UTI’s is a wet food: raw, canned, dehydrated/freeze dried. If you must feed kibble, add a little canned and warm water. Using a cranberry supplement is helpful as well.

[InkedMarie]

SkeptVet: you can do whatever you want. When it comes to nutrition, I do my own
research & talk to my holistic vet if I need to. I feed prey model raw, in ground
form. I honestly don’t care what my regular vets think about it. Since I see
vet food by Royal Canin, Purina & Hills/Science Diet on their shelves, that in
itself is telling. If they think those are good foods then they don’t know
enough about nutrition to advise me. Also, I don’t need advice. I can read.

Note that I said vets get very little nutrition training in vet school; if a vet is a
nutritionist or holistic vet, they have had more nutritional training.

Lastly, I own the pets, not my vet. That means that as long as am not abusing my
dogs, I’m free to make choices on what to do with my dogs.

[aquariangt]

Would you say, in general, that a human diet of dry, processed food, even if considered a complete meal (think perhaps, an MRE, backpackers food, maybe a diet of cheerios, ramen, and V8 Juice? I don’t know, throwing some examples) would be more beneficial than fresh food? If so, what would be the difference for dogs?

That said, I do feed kibble with canned, fresh, raw etc toppers, out of placement in my life right now, though I fully intend to move back towards a homemade diet at some point

[SkeptVet]

C4D,
The blogger I linked to is a veterinary infectious disease expert, and he discusses specific scientific evidence in the post I linked to, so this is not merely opinion but opinion informed by evidence and relevant expertise. The second link was not about raw diets because, as I tried to make clear in my post, I was not making a broad claim about raw diets but only responding to the specific comment that dogs were not susceptible to Salmonella infection or associated illness, a false claim that is often used to deny any potential risk to feeding raw meat. Again, I try to be specific and focused in these discussions since otherwise people waste energy arguing past one another.

The evidence is clear that infectious disease is a risk from any type of diet, that it is a greater risk from uncooked foods than cooked foods, and that it is a greater risk for people with potential immune system vulnerabilities (very young, very old, pregnant, ill, on immunosuppressive medications, etc.). This evidence needs to be considered when making choices about feeding raw. If evidence emerges that there are significant health benefits to doing so, then such risks may be worth taking and, as you suggest, it is appropriate to minimize them as best we can. If, however, there are no benefits to feeding raw compared with cooked homemade or commercial diets, then why take the risk at all? I’m still waiting for controlled studies looking at the relative merits of different feeding strategies because I don’t think the existing evidence is at all definitive.

Until that evidence is available, of course, we all need to make feeding decisions, and some may choose raw on the basis of the theoretical arguments or indirect evidence. That’s fine, and I’m not here to dissuade anybody.

What is problematic is when people make definitive claims that are supported by personal belief or anecdotes rather than real evidence. If you say your pets are healthy on a raw diet, that’s a perfectly fair observation. My pets are healthy on commercial diets, and neither experience says anything generalizable about raw vs. commercial foods. If, however, people claim raw must be healthier because of their personal experiences with it or because of the dubious theoretical arguments put forward for it, that’s not a legitimate claim. And if people claim all sorts of dire health problems caused by commercial diets, again those aren’t legitimate claims either without appropriate scientific evidence to support them.

[SkeptVet]

So if we are believers in raw diets, we should ignore most vets’ opinions on nutrition since they don’t know anything about it (and yet, somehow, we do know about nutrition even without any formal education, presumably because we’ve read some articles on the internet or some books on the subject). This includes ignoring the vast majority of board-certified veterinary nutritionists, who agree that there is no evidence supporting the claims for raw diets. They don’t know much about nutrition even though it is their specialty.(Oh, right, they are either deceived or lying because they are all pawns/shills for the pet food industry.) Yet, if a vet recommends raw then we should listen to them because obviously they do know about nutrition since they agree with us and so must be both well-informed and completely without bias or outside influences.

What this kind of discussion suggests is that the real issue is not how much vets know about nutrition but simply that we are looking only for sources of information that agree with what we already believe. The same applies to asking a “holistic vet” about vaccines. There is no reason to think such vets are better informed or know more about immunology than any others, but they must be a more reliable source of information because they agree with what you already believe.

Everyone is entitled to an opinion, but all opinions can be fairly and equally ignored if they don’t come with supporting evidence. And discussions about the evidence are more productive than discussions about opinions because they are less likely to degenerate into personalized and pointless debate. So far, there hasn’t been much discussion in this thread about specifics or evidence, mostly just opinion and “credentials.”

I tried to respond specifically and with evidence concerning the particular statements that “vets don’t know anything about nutrition” and that certain microorganisms in raw meat can’t be harmful to dogs. That shouldn’t be taken to mean anything more or less than what I said on those specific issues. For the record, I don’t know if raw diets have any health benefits compared with cooked fresh diets or commercial diets, and I don’t believe anyone else does either because there is no specific scientific evidence to answer that question. there are lots of theoretical arguments in both directions, and of course the usual persuasive yet utterly unreliable anecdotes, but not real data. I tend to suspect the ultimate answer will be that there is no benefit, but that’s just another opinion until there is real evidence.

[jakes mom]

C4C, I tried the cat food from know better a few months ago when I was trying to transition the brats to raw. Easy to do, good fast delivery. Of course the cats didn’t eat it but Jake enjoyed it very much, lol. Let me know if you try it, I might add it to Jake’s rotation. Right now he’s eating a bit of everything, NV kibble and frozen raw, a few other quality kibble brands, raw meaty bones. And as you know, he’ll be finishing up the Darwin’s cat food!

[Gracie’s Mom]

. . .but wouldn’t it be great to have a sort of calculator that allows you to input ingredients that you want to avoid, and it would then filter all the dog foods listed on the site, leaving only the foods that don’t include those ingredients? That would be so helpful to those of dealing with numerous food allergies and picky eaters.

I spend a great deal of time looking for foods to add into rotation that 1) my dog will eat (very picky!), 2) don’t cost a small fortune to feed a 65-pounder, 3) don’t contain one of her many allergens (white potato, rice, alfalfa, flax, peanut, soybean, rabbit. . .being just the more severe ones), and 4) provide a good nutritional balance (high in protein and not ridiculously high in fat with some fiber). I should also add that I’m a big believer in grain-free and minimal cooking/processing, but have a husband who is opposed to a home-cooked diet for our girl (that’s another story).

We started out with Darwin’s and that seemed to work great until she decided not to eat it anymore. I’ve since not had any luck with frozen raw. She just barks at it. Ziwipeak was good for a while, then she quit eating it. I’ve tried Arcana Duck and Bartlett Pear (the least successful in terms of willingness to eat it), and several freeze dried and dehydrated brands that don’t contain something on the allergy list. There don’t seem to be many options once the allergens are eliminated.

We’ve just started on Against the Grain canned, but there are only two proteins available, and she would need four cans a day, which would be expensive. I need something less expensive to add to it. Also, I have to offer variety, or she will refuse to eat anything in a few weeks. I’m going to try rotating in ZiwiPeak again. She has consistently liked K-9 Naturals freeze-dried, which I often mix with Honest Kitchen’s Preference Base Mix, but I’m concerned about the extremely high fat content in the K-9, and she has been a bit iffy on the Preference lately, sometimes refusing to eat it at all. The K-9 venison has somewhat lower fat, so I’m going to keep that in rotation. I’ve just ordered some small bags of Fresh Is Best freeze-dried to see how she likes that. She also likes Vital Essentials freeze dried, usually mixed with canned Tripett to provide some moisture. She does love tripe, but I know it doesn’t provide everything she needs nutritionally.

I worry not just about her allergies but also a diet too high in fat. She’s a three-year old lab mix and pretty active. She needs lots of protein and some fiber (judging from poop consistency).

I don’t currently have her on any supplements, having taken her off of them the last time she refused to eat her food (I’ve always put liquid or powdered supplements in her food, because she won’t eat treat-style supplements or pills). I need to identify any supplements that she may not be getting from her diet and try to find a way to get those in her.

It’s a difficult thing to manage. All advice is welcome. Mike–any chance for that ingredient eliminator program?

[Sarah L]

Hi there everyone,
Just wanted to drop a quick line as I searched with much frustration for months in regards to home made food as we have one schnauzer with seizures. The lack of information and conflicting information out there about home made diets is enough to make you bang your head against a wall …….. very frustrating !!!! We heard a lot about the raw diet, but I just could not bring myself to feed my dog raw meat, just my personal preference, but found a fantastic alternative to feeding raw. After much searching and many trials I was afraid we were not giving the girls enough nutrition and I was always concerned if they were getting enough of the nutrients they needed and a well balanced diet with cooking at home. We came across this company called U-Stew and we have not switched to anything else since. Basically you add this supplement to cooked protein and if you choose some veggies and voila !! It looks and smells like canned dog food …. our girls love it and we make it in big batches and freeze it in jam jars, very convienient. After the girls being on this diet for just a year we had all their blood work done to ensure they were getting all the nutrients required in their diets and they both passed with flying colors !!! …… Amazing !!! Here is the website we found the product https://www.knowbetterpetfood.com/U-Stew. Maybe not for anyone, but if I can help anyone with this tidbit of info, I am happy for that.

[Miss Koa]

Jonathan S: Yeah, that’s true about the eggs too. I guess I’m just a natural worry wart. haha. Ever since I had a kid, I’ve become more of a germaphobe and developed anxiety issues. In retrospect, I know my mom left meat on the kitchen counter for hours to defrost and we still lived. 😀
I have a jack russell terrier. I do my best not to show how anxious i am about it since I am not allowed to leave, apparently, when she eats. lol. I’m not sure how or why, but ever since we got her, when I feed her, I must stay with her or she won’t eat the raw chicken. If I leave her, she will carry it around and follow me or try to bury it. So since then, I have always sat in a chair and waited for her to eat. When I feed kibble, she doesn’t seem to mind too much if I go about doing chores. I used to feed the chicken in her crate, but then she would lie in the juices when she wanted to change position or whatever. That just made it worse for me, so I started feeding her outside. That worked better. She just stayed in one spot under the chair I was sitting in and she was happy, I was happy.
Thanks again for your input! I appreciate it.
It’s a learning process, that’s for sure. 🙂

[Dori]

Just wanted to take a second and agree with pitlove on her recommendation of Nature’s Logic. When I still had kibble along with our commercial raw diet rotation, Nature’s Logic was the only one I was able to use and was really happy with. One of my dogs has many food sensitivities, intolerances and allergies. The millet in Nature’s Logic never bothered her in the least.

I’ve never used Farmina as all of their dog foods either contain some form of poultry or potato which are no go’s for our dogs.

[aimee]

Hi Alison,

As pups are more susceptible to food borne pathogens, when feeding raw using a HPP product adds a layer of safety. A commercial product that has been through feeding trials is preferred as a nutrient error in a rapidly growing pup will be magnified and can result in disaster.

[samaroberoi4474]

The amount of food you give to your dog is also important, as it would help the dog maintain an ideal weight without compromising on its energy and nutritional needs in any way.
To feeding a raw food you have to give it in a Small amount with proper nutritional content in it
Check feeding tips for puppies for new dog owners

Puppy Feeding Tips for New Dog Owners

[Pitlove]

Jonathan– Yes! anything over 50lbs at mature weight would be large breed and I believe most Boxers will reach that weight if not a little more. Also even if the dog does not quite hit 50 lbs you can still feed them like a large breed and it will still aid in preventing skeletal disease.

Alison– You’re welcome! I know it is very stressful. I will feed raw at some point in my life, but I can’t yet for certain reasons. If you have the aid of a properly trained canine nutritionist to help you with recipes, it will be as easy as following them and from what I hear once people make the recipes enough it comes as second nature about what to add and how much.

• This reply was modified 10 years, 5 months ago by Pitlove.

[InkedMarie]

My other dog is my allergy dog. No chicken for him. I ended up putting him on ground raw. Turns out some produce doesn’t work for him.