[Cyndi]

Mydogisme, take your time to mourn, but when you’re ready I think you should look into adopting another dog. There are so many, many dogs out there who need a loving home. I wanted another Doberman when my Moose died, but I couldn’t do it. I am still grieving even after so long, but Bailey, who I adopted in January, has been a godsend. I no longer cry every single day for Moose. My Bailey makes me laugh all the time and I still think of Moose every day, but Bailey has helped me move on.

I’ll keep you in my thoughts and prayers to give you strength to get thru this.

[mydogisme]

Thanks Patty, Its just killing me. same when my mom died. cant replace either one.

[theBCnut]

OHHHH, Mydogisme, I’m so sorry that Dixie finally lost her fight, but she doesn’t hurt anymore. It takes time to get through the pain of losing a pet that means so much to you, so please take care of yourself especially well for the next few weeks. Remember that there is another dog out there that needs you as much as Dixie did. When you find that special pup, I know it will never have the same place in your heart that Dixie had, but trust me, it will make it’s own special place, and it needs you.

[Cyndi]

Awwww, I am so very sorry for your loss. It sounds like you did all that you could for your Dixie & it sounds like she was very loved for a long time. That’s more than most dogs get. I lost my 11 year old Doberman in 2011 and he was my doggy soulmate. He went everywhere with me and was with me thru the loss of many family members. He was my everything. I know exactly what you’re going thru. It has been a little over a year and a half and I still miss him so very much. My new dog Bailey has helped me to move on but I still blame myself for Moose’s death. The vets never found out what was going on with him but I’m pretty sure it was a combination of the crappy food, and vaccines, etc. I vowed to Bailey I won’t let that happen to her. I am going to do everything in my power to give her a long and healthy life.

Thank you for your well wishes. I will pray you find the strength to move on, but just know that Dixie is in a better place and she’s not in any pain. She’s running around happy and healthy at the Rainbow Bridge with all the other furbabies who are there waiting for their owners. Hang in there, and when you’re ready, I know there is another dog just waiting for you to give it a loving home…

[mydogisme]

Cyndi, I live in Alabama and I hate it here too. I had a wire haired terrier/schnauzer, Dixie who I adopted when she was 9 months old, passed away yesterday at 4:30. She was only 10. She got a blood transfusion in December and I had the best internist, cardio Dr. and her vet couldn’t save my baby. I have about 12 different prescription’s here she had been on over the yrs.’ for different things up to the end when she was on Flagyl and her Dr. said we need to use i.v.s and not pills due to her stomach is so sensitive. I ordered her Royal Canin diabetic dog food, needs prescription, and she liked it ok but liked the ground round sirloin I bought better, just boiled it first. you might want to have a internist do a biopsy on her to see what is going on for sure. It is very scary as this is your baby we are talking about and not just any dog. I pray that your fur baby gets well and lives a very ,very long happy healthy life. I don’t know how to go on at this time without my baby, as she was my life .

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi ella, I agree with Sandy. Homemade raw – while more time consuming – is so much cheaper than commercial raw. There are some great books out there with balanced recipes – “Unlocking the Canine Ancestral Diet” by Steve Brown is my favorite and Dr. Becker also has a great book out called “Real Food for Healthy Dogs and Cats.” I have three bloodhounds and it would cost me over $1,000 per month to feed most commercial raw foods – I’m spending around $400 a month to feed all three homemade raw (that’s including supplements and everything). I order most of my meat from a wholesale supplier for less than $1 per pound and other meats I order from Hare Today (reasonable prices and reasonable shipping), I buy my supplements from Swanson’s (very reasonably priced quality supplements). I have my recipes posted on the recommended menus thread if you want to check out the types of meats/supplements I feed. The other benefit to homemade raw is that you’re in complete control of quality. If you’re not comfortable making your own food I’d say that the cheapest commercial raw brands would be Answer’s, Bravo Balance, HPP or K9 Kraving.

[pugmomsandy]

That’s carnivorefeed-supplier. Have you thought about making homemade raw? There are recipe books you can buy and it ends up being alot cheaper. You can also supplement his diet with 20% of unbalanced food like giving chicken wings/necks/backs/gizzards/heart, etc.

[ella]

Have you considered putting her on a natural diet? I hate going to the vets. I’d rather spend $2 on a nutritious diet than spend $1 on a vet.

I switched my dog to Primal Raw Frozen. It’s mostly meat with very few carbs. Grains are used in feed lots to make animals fat, and they have other side effects that make animals sick.

Dogs weren’t designed to eat grains and carbs. Sounds to me like you have a typical vet. So interested in selling you expensive drugs and crap, that he doesn’t have time to address the problem. Allegra for a dog??? Please.

Even if your dog didn’t used to have allergies to the food doesn’t mean that he tolerates it well. Sometimes it takes a while for dietary choices to catch up. Just like kids that get 90% of their calories from sugar and starch and carbs, they may not exhibit severe symptoms as teenagers. Watch them when they’re older, though, and you’ll notice much more in the way of illness, obesity and diabetes than humans who eat the natural diet of humans.

I’d bet that your dogs problems will go away if you feed your dog a natural diet.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Runny poop and vomiting, that’s not good. Occasionally when my dogs eat dense bones they’ll throw up some bone fragments, usually about 8 hours after they eat. I’ve never had this occur with poultry bones though – just heavier bones like marrow bones and knuckle bones (why I no longer feed recreational bones). Are you leaving the skin on your chicken legs? The diarrhea could be from high fat content – the first few times my dogs had raw lamb (very fatty) they had some loose stools. Was she fine with the Fresh Pet? It may be a good idea to put her back on Fresh Pet entirely with pumpkin and a good probiotic supplement to get her digestive system back in order. After everything has been firmed up and there’s been no vomiting for at least a few days I’d mix a small amount of lean boneless raw meat with the Fresh Pet. If she’s tolerating this add a bit more – do this over the course of a week or so. If she continues to tolerate small amounts of boneless lean raw meat try giving her a raw meaty bone again but be sure to remove the skin. All dogs are different and some need a more gradual transition than others. My dogs have iron stomachs and can eat anything, I’ve never done a transition, but some dogs are very sensitive to even the most minor changes in their diet.

[pugmomsandy]

The best diet (if your feeding kibble) would be to feed your lab a variety of foods, not just one brand or flavor or form. Rotate foods to maintain a healthy gut and give probiotics and/or digetive enzymes. Commercial kibble will always have some shortcomings. I like and use for kibble Nutrisource grain free, Nature’s Select Grain Free or the Hi-Pro formulas only (made by Mid America Pet Foods), Brothers Complete and sometimes Wysong Epigen and Nutrisca. I foster so I have lots of mouths to feed. I also feed various canned foods from Wellness, Nutrisca, Addiction, Tripett and Weruva. And also give freeze dried foods and raw foods.

[Cyndi]

Thanks Patty! 🙂 I’m so glad that first meal is over and done with. I just hope it continues to be smooth sailing….

[theBCnut]

Congratulations! It’s been 8 months for us and my dogs still act like they think they are the luckiest dogs in the universe when I hand them a chunk of meat.

[Cyndi]

I just wanted to thank everyone, again, for all their help and patience with me and all my questions. Bailey just got done with her first raw dinner. I couldn’t get chicken leg quarters today, so I just bought 2 packs of thighs and 2 packs of legs. I gave her 2 thighs and 2 legs for dinner, which came to a pound even. It was such a learning experience for both of us and also very interesting to me. Bailey started just licking everything. She must have licked for like 10 minutes until I got tired of it, lol!. So I held a thigh for her while she figured out how to use her teeth to get the meat off. It didn’t take her long to get thru the first piece. I held the second piece, the leg, for a minute while she pulled some of the meat off but after a minute or so, she took it from me and did the rest on her own. It was so interesting to see her go from just licking and not really knowing what to make of it, to really using her teeth as they were meant to be used. After dinner, I let her outside and she laid down in the grass, wiped her mouth for a minute and rolled around like she was very content.

Again, thank you all again. I don’t think I would have gotten the courage up on my own to actually feed her raw, if I hadn’t read everything on this site that I did and if you awesome people hadn’t been so patient and answered my questions. 🙂 🙂 🙂

[Hound Dog Mom]

When I fed THK I used Zeal, Love, Embark and Thrive. As for canned – the only human-grade canned food is Weruva. My favorite canned foods are ZiwiPeak, Addiction, Nature’s Logic, Merrick and Nature’s Variety Instinct. I think mixing THK and canned might be a good idea – that’s what I used to feed my dogs before I switched to raw. She’ll be getting the bulk/fiber from the THK so that might help her poop but the addition of canned will boost the protein levels. Supplement with some enzymes and it will be nearly as good as a raw diet.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi boxermim2013 –

I can relate to you here. One of my girls, Gertie (the dog in my avatar) is extremely difficult to keep weight on. She was so scrawny as a pup I had tests run too and they came back clear. The vet told me once she was spayed she’d put some weight on, but she was spayed 2 years ago and keeping weight on her is still a struggle. With her, as long as her hip bones aren’t protruding I feel I’m doing good!

I wasn’t able to get her over 60 lbs. until I switched her to a high protein, high fat, low carbohydrate raw diet. I make her food and I generally keep protein between 45% and 55%, fat between 30% and 40% and carbs less than 20%. I’ve now got her holding steady at 68 lbs. – given her height she should be much heavier, but at least she doesn’t look emaciated any more. I also give her lots of treats between meals, I mostly feed balanced foods as treats so I can feed her more without throwing off her diet – i.e. freeze-dried raw medallions, frozen kongs layered with grain-free kibble and canned pumpkin, ziwi peak food for training treats and (prior to the recent recall) I was using EVO’s Wild Craving biscuits which conform to AAFCO nutrient profiles for balanced foods.

Some other options – Abady makes a very calorie-dense granular food – it has around 800 calories per cup (nearly double the calories of Blue Buffalo). I’ve used Abady and before and was pleased. I also know people that have put weight on their dogs with satin balls – you can look up recipes online – they usually include fatty hamburger, eggs, oil, molasses, etc. You could add a balanced omega 3-6-9 and/or coconut oil to his food for a fat/calorie boost. You could try supplementing with digestive enzymes to ensure he’s digesting everything he does eat. If you want to stick with kibble, I’d also recommend at least picking a more calorie-dense formula (>500 kcal. per cup). Some calorie-dense options include – Canine Caviar Grain-Free Puppy (636 kcal. per cup), Dr. Tim’s Momentum (588 kcal. per cup), NutriSource Super Performance (529 kcal. per cup), Timberwolf Organics (I believe all the grain-free formulas are over 500 kcal. per cup).

Good luck!

• This reply was modified 12 years, 11 months ago by Hound Dog Mom.
• This reply was modified 12 years, 11 months ago by Hound Dog Mom.

[Cyndi]

Ok, thanks so much Patty! That’s what I was planning on doing, but I just wanted to be sure.

Have a great weekend! 🙂

[theBCnut]

Leave it whole. You want to make sure that she learns she has to gnaw on it. If you give her small pieces she might decide gulping it is a good idea. Some people have to hold on to it or attach vise grips or something to it to slow their dogs down to start with. They do learn to slow down and chew though.

[Cyndi]

Hi again everyone! 🙂 The pain in the butt has another question… 😀

And for what it’s worth, I did look thru some other threads to try to answer it myself, but didn’t find the answer. Anyways, I placed an order with Hare Today, for some chicken grinds and chicken feet and chicken pieces, but today I am going to buy chicken leg quarters to start Bailey off with until I get my order from Hare Today. I would like to know if I should cut up the leg quarters into pieces or just give it to her whole, provided it weighs the appropriate amount that she’ll need for that meal? I do apologize again for all the stupid questions, but like I’ve said before I just want to make sure I’m doing everything right…

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi ashylynn –

HPP stands for high pressure processing. Some view it as a good thing, others view it as a bad thing – I view it as a bad thing. Foods that are HPP are subjected to very high levels of pressure, the pressure kills bacteria without applying heat so the food can still be sold as “raw.” The downside to HPP (why I don’t like HPP) is that when large amounts of pressure are applied to proteins (such as during HPP) the proteins can denature and the beneficial bacteria is killed along with the “bad” bacteria. For me raw is about feeding a diet as close to a dog’s ancestral diet as possible and minimizing processing. I don’t personally view HPP “raw” as a truly raw product, but it can definitely be beneficial for immune compromised dogs that can’t handle the bacteria load present in real raw food.

[Hound Dog Mom]

My oldest dog used to eat kibble and Nature’s Variety Instinct kibble was one of the foods I used frequently in his rotation. He did really well on it and I think their kibble is one of the best dry foods available. I use the Nature’s Variety Instinct freeze-dried raw medallions once in awhile for treats. I’ve never fed their frozen raw and I personally wouldn’t because it’s HPP, but due to the fact that it’s HPP it might be a good option for a dog that’s never eaten raw before to help them ease into a less processed diet.

[Cyndi]

Thank you Hound Dog Mom.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Chicken backs are approx. 50% bone and leg quarters are approx. 30% bone.

[Cyndi]

Ok, Thanks Patty! Also, if I start feeding Bailey a chicken leg quarter or a chicken back every day for dinner to start off to get her accustomed to raw, isn’t that too much bone per day? I don’t know the percentage of bone to meat in a back or a leg quarter, but it just seems to me like it might be too much bone per day…

[theBCnut]

When I switched to raw I had a young puppy with issues and was not willing to fast him for long at all. I started adding a little raw as toppers to my dogs meals and when I was adding enough, I switched to feeding raw one meal a day.

Every one who suggests fasting usually says skipping one meal is enough. You just want the kibble to clear the system. So just arrange it so the meal before you start raw is the Deli Fresh.

My dogs don’t have any trouble with me mixing raw with kibble, feeding just kibble, and then turning around and feeding a whole meal of raw.

[theBCnut]

I started by googling homemade dog food and went with the yeast starvation diet since it only needed a very limited number of things added to it. That gave me time to do more research. I started out using raw as a topper to their kibble and then I moved to feeding one meal raw, the other kibble. like Sandy, I’m the only one in the house that is willing to give raw meet to the dogs so mine or also still on kibble too, just in case.

[ashylynn]

Thank you both for your feedback – I’ve had my eye on Nature’s Variety food they offer a “regular” variety, a grain free and a raw diet. I’m not sure if I would want to switch to strictly raw – but the thought of offering it to them sometimes is nice. Do either of you have any feedback on this food variety? Thanks to both! 🙂

[Cyndi]

Hi everyone!

I am going to start Bailey on raw this weekend. Already bought some chicken. Just waiting til I get paid so I can buy more, and buy a food scale, etc. I have a question about fasting her before I start. Do I need to fast her before she starts on raw, and for how long? Right now she eats a cup of Nature’s Variety Instinct for breakfast and Deli Fresh Chicken and Veggies for dinner, which I will be switching to her breakfast and feed her raw for dinner to start off. So, I just would like to know everyone’s thought on if I should fast her and for how long when I start her on raw. Oh and when I do fast her, how do I go about not feeling bad for not feeding her a meal? Lol! What do you guys do with your dogs or for them when you fast them?

Thanks, again, so much for all your help. The past week I have been reading just about ALL the forum topics and really trying to educate myself. It’s gotten so bad that when I want to go back and reread something I had read, I can’t find it because I can’t for the life of me remember which topic and which thread I read it on, lol!

Have a great day everyone!! 🙂

• This reply was modified 12 years, 11 months ago by Cyndi.

[soho]

Hi ashylynn,

Since your dogs have been on commercial dog foods their whole lives I would not just switch them to raw. Dog’s digestive systems adjust to whatever type of food (raw, cooked, kibbled, canned, etc) that they are eating. In your case your dogs may have a hard time with the added bacteria present in raw due to the fact that the pH of their stomachs is not acid enough at the moment. Some dogs also do not like the taste of raw after all those years (or 13 months) of eating cooked foods. Lastly without knowing the state of your dog’s immune systems it can be pretty risky switching from kibble or canned to raw.

A home cooked diet of at least 75% meat and 20 to 25% non-starchy fruits and vegetables would be a great step up for your dogs without the added risks of raw. You could then gradually start cooking their food less and less and see how they do. If everything goes well they could eventually be eating a diet consisting of raw meats and pureed fruits and vegetables.

If you go the homemade route don’t forget to add calcium if they are not consuming raw meaty bones and a good multivitamin to balance out their diet.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi ashylynn –

I suggest putting them both on a high quality grain-free diet – raw is best if you’re willing. There’s no reason two different dogs can’t eat the same food, all dogs (aside from those with serious medical issues) have the same basic nutritional requirements and will generally thrive on a high protein, low carbohydrate diet. The only thing that will differ between the two dogs is their energy requirement (portion size). Your mastiff pup will need more calories and thus require larger portions and your chi will require less calories and thus need smaller portions. I have a 110 lb. 8 year old, a 68 lb. 2 year old and a 75 lb. 10 month old – they all eat the exact same thing.

• This reply was modified 12 years, 11 months ago by Hound Dog Mom.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi alfiethebulldog –

I had never heard of it but I just checked it out. The website it pretty sketchy. The ingredients and general analysis don’t look horrible but it’s definitely not a top notch food and not worth $80 a bag. I’d say it’d probably be rated 4 stars and suggest that if you have that kind of money to spend on food you spend it on a 5 star kibble or consider a more species-appropriate diet of raw or canned foods.

[ashylynn]

HI, I’m really looking for some help. I have an older (8 years) chihuahua, neutered, less active dog that is very picky when it comes to taste. And we had gotten a beautiful Bull mastiff mix puppy last year (she’s currently 13 months old) however she’s only about 80 pounds or so and the vet said she’s likely not to get any bigger. And we need to keep her at this ideal weight. My chihuahua has been on a diet to get his weight down which is fine and dandy right now – but we are no longer able to give him all those tasty tidbits of mommas homemade chicken and gravy which he loves, and of course my puppy is a strict dog-food no table scraps kinda girl. I have been racking my brain trying to find a perfect dog food for each of them – especially since once Hutch (chihuahua) is done his diet he’ll need to be on a food he enjoys and is good for him.
I’ve been looking at the grain free or raw diets because of the tastes and the possibility of being able to put both dogs on one food. Most grain-free foods state they are suitable for all life stages. However, I’ve been getting mixed information on whether or not its a good idea for my dogs. One being a small dog, older, lazy, with past liver elevations and the other being a large dog that is still “growing”, also rather lazy. I’m wondering if there is ANYONE out there who has been or is in the same situation as myself and has any information you can give me on this. Thank you all for your help. 🙂

[Hound Dog Mom]

You can add fruits and veggies if you want – but you don’t have to. If you do, make sure the veggies are cooked and pureed and the fruit is mashed or pureed. Cooking and pureeing helps to break down the cellulose making it easier for the dog to digest as dogs don’t produce cellulase (the enzymes necessary to breakdown cellulose).

Don’t add only organ meat – I suggested hearts and gizzards because they are considered muscle meat and are cheap. Organ meat would be liver, kidneys, spleen, lungs, etc. The only organ meat you’ll probably be able to find at a grocery store would be liver. Liver is fine to feed but feed it in moderation – it’s very nutrient dense and should account for no more than 5% of the diet. You could certainly buy ground meats, whole roasts and such and dice them (although these cuts are a bit more expensive). You could also supplement with a meal of raw meaty bones a few times a week if you aren’t opposed to feeding bones (pork necks, chicken leg quarters, turkey necks, etc.) – RMB’s will provide dental benefits as well.

[Anonymous]

I’m sorry your poor pack had to go through this. Don’t let the vet throw a guilt trip on you. You only tried to do what’s best for your dogs. Some dogs thrive on a raw diet and some don’t .]], I hope you can find a good alternative food.

[Hound Dog Mom]

If you’re on a budget and are just using raw to supplement a balanced kibble it’d be much cheaper to just add fresh meat at a rate of 20% or less of the total meal. Freeze-dried foods are very expensive. My grocery store almost always has beef heart, beef liver, chicken hearts, chicken gizzards and chicken livers – all of these items are very reasonably priced and could boost the protein of the kibble and provide your dogs with some of the benefits of a raw diet without the hefty price tag. If freeze-dried is the route you want to go and are open to switching foods – all of Nature’s Variety’s foods are coated in freeze-dried raw and they have a new food called “Raw Boost” with chunks of freeze-dried raw, Great Life is coated in freeze-dried raw and Wysong has two kibbles (Optimal Performance and Nurture) that contain chunks of freeze-dried raw. It may be cheaper to buy a kibble with the freeze-dried raw already incorporated rather than supplementing separately.

[pugmomsandy]

You can supplement their diet with the freeze dried raw food but usually it is alot more expensive per pound unless you can also get that wholesale.

[kcarter137]

I am new to this site and find it so thankful that I found it. Hopefully I won’t sound crazy but here it goes. I have had a really hard time finding food that work for my dogs. Everytime I think I have found a food it or they seem to have problems. They were all on California Natual or Innova and doing great until I changed them in October due to news that P&G bought them.

I have four dogs. Here is the breakdown:
13 year old golden female. Years ago the vet reccomended their Iams fish and potato diet which worked fine but due to budget reasons we switched her to California Natural Herring and Sweet Potato. She did wonderful for many years on that. We tried Taste of the Wild’s fish formula and immeditetly she started itching. Now she is on Tuscan Natural Lamb Formula. She is doing fine with her allergies on it (aka no itching) but after reading reviews I feel like I am feeding her an imcomplete food.
5 year old golden (no problem). Also eating Tuscan Natual Lamb Formula.
2 year old great dane mix (crazy sensitive GI tract). Eating Tuscan Natural Turkey and Chicken.
1 year old 13 lb mix (has major skin issues). She’s eating Orijen Adult – so far the only food that hasn’t triggered her demodex.

Here is the real question. Supplementing their diets with a freeze-dried raw food make since or should I switch their kibble? I am on a budget – but I can get Tuscan Natual at wholesale price which is about $35 a bag. I feed about 11 cups of food daily between all the dogs.

• This topic was modified 12 years, 11 months ago by kcarter137.

[Anonymous]

We have two shelter dogs: Bennie, some kind of border/bernese mix, 3 years old, adopted 1.5 years ago; and Fidget, a female doberman(?), 1 year old, adopted 6 months ago.

I have a husband who, if the dog doesn’t finish his bowl of kibble, dresses up the kibble with whatever he can find in the refrigerator — teaching the dog, of course that, if he holds out, he’ll get goodies on his food. When the husband is away on business, I put down a bowl of kibble with nothing else, and the dog finishes his plate.

Bennie kind of liked Purina One Beyond, but I know it’s not a great food and, if I remember right, we were at the point where it always had to be ‘dressed up.’

When we adopted Fidget, she had soft stool issues, and I read that Dobies have sensitive stomachs and should switch foods slowly. In addition, she has spay incontinence, so I am now trying to get her on a grain-free diet.

We’d like both dogs to eat the same food. We need the food to be at least 4 stars, if possible, and AFFORDABLE (10-12 cents an ounce, preferably). We prefer to feed just kibble, if possible. No raw. We’re lazy people, but want healthy dogs (and are trying to make that NOT a contradiction).

We’ve tried Victor and Dave’s grain free kibbles, so far, but Bennie won’t eat ’em. (Fidget, fortunately, will eat ANYTHING … and EVERYTHING.)

Any suggestions for a PARTICULARLY TASTY, grain-free, healthy, affordable kibble, that I could try with Bennie? We want something he’ll LOVE the taste of.

I have tried (when the husband was away, and Bennie seems to eat with fewer incentives) samples of Nutrisource and Hi-Tek but, if anyone has any suggestions for anything CHEAPER than that but still healthy, please let me know.

Thanks

[InkedMarie]

Raw, canned and dehydrated is better for dogs. Dry food can leave dogs chronically dehydrated.

[DieselJunki]

Sometimes you can educate your vet. Bring in paperwork give list of sources ect. and hope they are open to learning something new that they probably didn’t teach them in school.
They could have been brain washed so to speak like many other people out there. Sometimes they just need a push in the right direction. I talked to my vet about feeding raw, at first she was not really all that happy with my decision but I explained myself and some of the little knowledge I knew of it. It helped let her know that I knew what I was doing (sort of haha) and had done my homework on it extensively before deciding to do it. I can’t say she is still a big fan of a raw diet but we have come to an understanding. I would still use her for ailments and shots and such.

Now there was one orthopedic vet that I actually got into a little bit of an argument with due to my kibble choice at that time. She to recommended all those cruddy brands. When I started talking to her about calcium levels due to him being a large breed dog it was like she was disgusted that I would even do such a thing. I began to explain myself and the research I had done and I could tell I wasn’t getting threw to her and she wasn’t understanding me. She kept pushing and telling me I wasn’t doing good for my dog and it would hurt him in later years. I would never use that place ever again due to her reaction.

All in all, don’t believe everything your vet tells you, do your own research before saying yes to things like unneeded shots and such.

[DieselJunki]

Oh wow. I really hope they get better quickly. So sorry you and your babies have to go threw this. Is it possible to find a holistic veterinarian around your area? I find them much more knowledgeable and less likely to throw you some pills that you really don’t need. Maybe they can answer what went wrong with the trying of the raw diet. It really is trial and error sometimes especially with dogs that might have other conditions. I know it was difficult to find a food that didn’t give my dog diarrhea or super soft poops until I switched to Honest Kitchen. It has been smooth sailing since then and I do plan to switch to raw sometime next month for sure. Good luck!

[DieselJunki]

So I am going to be switching to completely raw here shortly as I just bought a chest freezer (best investment ever). I was wondering if you all could help me out in figuring out what kind of muscle meat/organ meat/bone I would need to get for a whole month if I were to order it from a site such as MPC.

My dog Moose is around 7 months old and I usually feed him about 1.5 cups of honest kitchen 2 times a day. Right at the moment he is being boarded for a couple weeks and when I get him back I’ll double check his weight but I’d say he weighs 50lbs or so right now.

Now if I were to feed 3% of his body weight I would be feeding him 1.5lbs of food a day. If I were to say I needed a months worth of food (30 days) I would need 45lbs of food . That doesn’t really split it up between what I would need for organ meats, muscle meats, and bone. I am not so good with math and was hoping you guys could walk me through the process of figuring this all out! I would very much appreciate it so later on I can do the calculations myself.

From reading around it seems if your not feeding a whole prey model diet you should go with food consisting of 80% muscle meat, 10% bone, and 10% organ meat, 5% of which must be liver over the course of 1 week. But from my understanding you don’t have to feed it balanced everyday. You could feed straight muscle meat one day and then maybe a few turkey necks or something (I understand they are mostly bone) another and then give them some liver or other organ meats. So long as by the end of the week you met the 80/10/10 percentages.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi weimlove –

Sorry to hear Shadow’s having a bout of pancreatitis. 🙁

As Nectarmom stated, pancreatitis is brought on by fat – it wouldn’t have to do with whether or not the food is raw, although raw diets do tend to be higher in fat than kibble. Some dogs can handle very high levels of fat with no issues (i.e. my dogs) and others are very sensitive to fat. Some breeds are also predisposed to pancreatitis and don’t tolerate high levels of fat in their diet. Rancid fats can also cause pancreatitis – this wouldn’t be an issue with the fat on fresh meat but kibbles can go rancid as can fish oil (if you’re supplementing with fish oil it should be refrigerated and used within a couple months of opening). As Patty stated, raw diets are only required to state a minimum level of fat – often the actual level is much higher. So be careful if you go with pre-made. The best way to determine the true fat level is to look at the calorie content (foods with over 50 calories per oz. are likely higher in fat) and/or ask the company for a batch analysis in which they provide you with an actual nutrient analysis run on a batch of food (this can give you a good idea of what the fat levels are actually in the food but can also be inaccurate given that it’s possible to have great variance between batches). Personally, I think your best bet (if you want to continue with raw) would be to use a pre-mix and add lean meat from the grocery store. Human foods are required to list the actual fat levels (not a minimum) so you know what you’re getting. I’d stick with at least 95% lean and supplement with minimal levels of omega 3’s (he’ll still need EFA’s, but don’t over supplement).

[weimlove]

Oh my goodness I am so sorry to hear that! It is so frustrating when you spend so much time researching a raw diet and preparing their meals, for it not to work out. Shadow stayed at the holistic vet lastnight. I picked him up this morning and when we got home he had liquid diareahha and still wouldn’t eat. All they did at the holistic vet was give him fluids. Since he was still worse I took him to a normal vet that’s close to my house. She says he may have a touch of pancreatitis but that she thinks we caught it in time. She gave him some antibiotics and an injection to calm his tummy. I went to the store and bought some wellness chicken and rice canned food. Thankfully he ate almost a whole can! The vet I went to was very kind and understanding. I think for now I’m going to use canned food until his appetite comes back all the way. When it does, I’m thinking about just going to a pre made raw such as primal. I want to feed shadow the best, but I don’t want to risk his health.

[NectarMom]

Thank you Weimlove. Pancreatitis is brought on by high fatty diet. We maybe switching just our shihtzu back to kibble due to she was only given 1 teaspoon of raw when we got back home and I ended up rushing her back up there, she blew out basically nothing but watery diahrrea and was trying to throw up the teaspoon that I fed her so it is not looking good for Raw for her in which I really hate it. Shes going back in tomorrow for more test and I guess they enjoy trying to see how many times they can stick her to get blood 🙁 Poor baby, Vet said once again no food for 24hrs….shes going to starve to death and I feel so bad while everyone else is eating and shes sitting there licking in the air……….. 🙁

Weimlove, how is your baby today?

[pugmomsandy]

If she needs help being regular then keep on using it if it was working for you until you can get the daily dose adjusted. I haven’t looked at any “colon cleanse” products but a reduced daily dose might help keep things moving so she doesn’t go 3 days in between stools. Works for me! I would think olive oil is better than castor oil or mineral oil! And I love psyllium. Buy it in bulk! Whenever we have GI issues here we go to a “simple” diet and psyllium. I have chia seed to. Tripe is suppose to be a “perfect food” yet it is very plain and simple. Even being a raw feeder I will make homemade “cow-dom”. I’m pretty sure that’s not how it is spelled since it’s Thai but it is basically rice porridge with meat/eggs/greens, anything I want to put in it and feed it to my 14 yr old foster with his kibble. I just got him at age 14 so I didn’t want to bomb his system with raw! I dog-sat him in December and he came with a bag of W/D which I begrudgingly fed him since he was not my foster. I work with what I have and feel comfortable with and make adjustments over time.

[pugmomsandy]

Is she getting Great Mender and olive oil? If so, maybe a reduction in those and some psyllium for bulk. If the first two are making her go, then at least the fiber will make it solid. Can’t say I’ve had any of those problems with all my fosters. I did get a 8 or 9 year old foster who I put on a canned food+raw diet with some psyllium and no problems. He needed to lose weight. Also try giving her less variety until she normalizes somewhat. Can you just feed her tripe for now till she settles?

[Hound Dog Mom]

Well I’m going to have to disagree with whoever is saying she doesn’t need calcium. It’s not about if she’s getting any calcium or how much she’s getting even – it’s about the calcium being in balance with the phosphorus. Organ meat is extremely high in phosphorus and contains virtually no calcium. Muscle meat is high in phosphorus and contains virtually no calcium. Bone contains a little phosphorus but is very high in calcium (~2:1 ratio). Dogs must have their diet provide calcium and phosphorus in between a 1:1 and 2:1 ratio (with about 1.2:1 being ideal). The grinds from Hare Today are whole prey so the calcium to phosphorus ratio is in balance – if you add more boneless to that you risk throwing off the ratio. You could probably be safe adding up to 20% of the meal boneless but not feeding 6 oz. boneless and 1 oz. bone in. To do the math – the grinds from Hare Today are approximately 80% muscle meat, 10% organ, 10% bone. 6 oz. of boneless meats + 1 oz. bone-in grind would result in a total of 6.9 oz. boneless meat/organs and only 0.10 oz. bone. This equates to a diet that is only 1.5% bone – a raw diet should be 10% bone. Balancing the C:P ratio is raw feeding 101 and the most important step – I can’t help but question the knowledge of someone advising you to feed predominantly muscle meat and not supplement with calcium.

[spoonyspork]

Okie, I’m sorry this is so long, but want to give as much background as possible for the best choice in foods.

I have an older dog — 14 years old, lab/plott hound mix, currently approximately 60 lbs and looks a little on the lean side to my liking.

We’ve been feeding him Taste of the Wild (can never remember the exact one as I just grab it based on color — it has ducks on the bag?) dry since adopting him 5 years ago, and he has thrived pretty good on that. When we first got him from the shelter he had bald patches all over (almost completely bald on the bottom half) caused by a severe allergy to fleas, and was also rather overweight. Within a few weeks he was lean and shiny with a much higher energy level, etc.

Well over the last year he has begun to show his age. He’s been developing benign tumors all over (each is kept checked by the vet), and his hair has again been falling out. He also constantly has a flea problem despite lots of flea treatments and keeping both inside and outside as flea free as possible (we have no carpet in the house and his bed is switched and washed weekly). In spite of this, he still has a very high energy level and good weight though he’d been starting to look a little TOO lean despite upping the amount of food.

But last week I thought sure I was about to lose him. Long story short, he was diagnosed with vestibular disease and sent home, told it usually improves on its own and the cause is usually never figured out unless it’s tumors on the nerves or an obvious ear infection, but if he improves it’s likely not tumors. He did improve, but the next day his appetite was gone and later started squirting diarrhea that was more blood than stool (hours prior it was normal stool)… so straight back to the vet where he was additionally found to have a GI infection, and put on antibiotics and a wet canned food (Hills I/D). Additionally, the vet suggested I put him on a combo flea/worm pill since topical stuff doesn’t seem to be helping him anymore. His stool sample didn’t show worms or larvae/eggs. I said no to the pill as I wanted to research it first (which I’m pretty sure will be a ‘no’ after reading the side effects! Even just the common side effects were terrible)

It’s been a week now, and he’s slooooowly gained back an appetite as well as near normal mobility (slight head-tilt as I was told would probably happen as well as random missteps or falling over if he tries to take off at a run too quickly)… and now will not *touch* his dry food beyond a couple bites. He doesn’t seem to be being picky about it (and really isn’t a picky dog at all as a rule) — he seems to have trouble actually eating it — after a few bites his head starts to tilt worse and he seems to lose focus and get dizzy, then lose interest. I do have to put his bowl somewhere off the floor as keeping his head down for the amount of time it takes to eat seems to make him dizzy again. His stools are almost normal again though he still seems very raw and sore while trying to ‘go’. I was considering getting more of the I/D from the vet as I thought surely they gave it to us based on it being something easy on his stomach… but reading the ingredients here I’m kind of surprised he didn’t get *worse* on it.

So now my actual point! He is out of the ‘food’ from the vet so this afternoon’s meal will have to be something different (don’t worry; he’ll eat *something* if I don’t get an answer for a while!). I have the looong list of ‘best wet foods’ and was thinking of just switching to taste of the wild wet formula, but I wanted to make sure that is the ‘best’ choice as far as cost-effectiveness as well as with an older dog with the background he has (fleas, skin condition, benign tumors, etc).

I will say I have tried some freeze-dried ‘raw’ diets in the past and my dogs just never seemed to do well with it, and the extra cost, mess, amount needed to feed our large dogs etc just didn’t seem worth it. I will also say I am now somewhat leery of taste of the wild in general, as I may be taking the other dog to the vet as she’s been having very loose stools the last few days too (no blood or pure liquid like his were, but we’re keeping an eye on her) and she just started being fed from the same freshly-opened bag he’d been eating from last week (she had been eating from the older bag while he’d been eating from the freshly opened bag. Trust me it makes sense — they get different amounts that are separated by meal so sometime one ends up eating from a different bag than the other for a couple days)

Okay, I think I’ve given as much info as possible, lol. Thanks for any help!

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi Marie –

Sorry to hear you’re having these problems. I’ve never had an issue like this with any of my dogs, however I can tell you that if you’re feeding 6 oz. boneless per day and 1 oz. of bone-in that she’s
not getting enough bone and the calcium to phosphorus ratio is off. In a prey model raw diet bone (along with fur/feathers) acts as fiber – so while excessive amounts of bone can cause constipation, so can excessive amounts of muscle meat without an adequate fiber source. Possibly a GI detox or colon cleanse might help. Wysong used to sell a great supplement called Colex (definitely would have gotten her moving), but I’m checking their site now and unfortunately it appears they aren’t selling it anymore. Swanson has a GI Detox powder that looks okay/safe for dogs. It doesn’t look as good as Colex did but it might work – I haven’t used it. They have several other colon cleansers but some I’m not sure if all the ingredients are safe for dogs. I know he colex was safe for dogs and the Swanson GI Detox looks safe. Were her stools regular before she was on raw?

[pugmomsandy]

My foster dogs and mine have lost weight on grain free foods like Blue Buffalo Wilderness, Horizon Amicus, Wellness Core and Brothers Complete over the years and not the “diet” ones, just regular recipes. Recently my very obese foster lost 10 lbs on a grain free canned food/raw food combo diet – very low in carbs. My group only poops twice a day. Now they will poop during a walk or at the dog park just because they gotta leave one of theirs when they smell someone else’s and it’s usually not as formed because it’s usually not the time for them to go normally.