[haleycookie]

I would do the wellness. Highest meat content for a large breed food I’ve found. Has correct calcium ratio as well. Dogs are carnivores. Add as much less processed things into the diet as u can (less than 15% unless it’s formulated for large breeds) Bone brother, canned food, freeze dried toppers. Etc.
if you’re interested in a vet nutritionalists being on staff, natures variety and candiae both employ one and make quality products.
I would also keep from over feeding, should be able to feel ribs under the skin, nice abdominal tuck. And don’t spay or neuter until two years so the growth plates and bones can mature correctly.
I’m also assuming the breeder is a quality one and has had genetic testing etc. otherwise poor genes may cause problems regardless of what u do.

[crazy4cats]

Hi Eric!
You are correct! Your new pup should be on a large breed puppy formula to ensure the correct calcium and phosphorus to protect those growing joints. Purina Does have excellent lrg brd puppy formulas. They have a team of experts that have done feeding trials from birth til death on large breeds.

Fromm does not and has not employed a board certified veterinarian for years. Nor do they do feeding trials.

Royal Canin, Eukanuba and Iams are also excellent choices for large breed puppy formulas. I have two golden labs and feed them Purina ProPlan Weight Management.

Check out Chewy.com for all their formulas. Even if you do not order from them, they have a good search feature.

Have fun with that new bundle of joy! He is going to keep you busy!

[anonymous]

Hope this helps http://skeptvet.com/Blog/2010/01/nutrition-in-large-breed-puppies/

PS: Check out Fromm https://www.gofromm.com/fromm-family-large-breed-puppy-gold-food-for-dogs

[Eric C]

We just brought home a male lab puppy and he is a bundle of joy. The breeder had him on Pro Plan Focus chicken. It seems by the nutritional profile that it is 1.1% calcium. However, when the posters here are recommending a Pro Plan, is there a Purina Pro Plan that is even more suited for large breeds? My little guy’s dad was 80 pounds (not fat at all) and I want to be careful with his growth. Would Wellness be a better choice? I heard someone say that is the best. Thanks in advance.

[crazy4cats]

Fromm is also being implicated with causing DCM (both with and without grain) in Dr. Stern’s peer-reviews study and a group of veterinarians that are keeping track of the foods that are being fed when dogs are diagnosed. Zignature and Acana have the most cases so far. Fromm a pretty close third.

Check out: https://www.facebook.com/groups/TaurineDCM/

I feed my two Lab/Golden mix dogs Purina ProPlan Large Breed Weight Management with great results. It has 374 calories per cup, but is fairly low in fat and a little higher in fiber. They have several formulas that might work for you. The ProPlan salmon formula is a little higher in calories, but the Purina One Salmon may be a little lower.

Make sure you measure out the food carefully and cut back on treats. Royal Canin has large breed formulas that are lower in calories as well. Good idea to keep his weight down now. It is a lot easier on the joints and could possibly lead to a longer life if there are no other health conditions. Best wishes!

[anonymous]

If you think she will be 40/50 pounds or more as an adult, I would feed a large breed puppy food to be on the safe side.
And no, I doubt that she is fully grown at 8 months. That can happen with small breeds but not larger ones.

Nutrition in Large Breed Puppies

Another thought, if you are not 100% sure of her birthdate she could very well be a little older….
Sometimes a vet can tell by examining their teeth.

Shelters often minimize age to make the pup more desirable for adoption. Sometimes only by a few months, or they may be going by the little information that they have.

[Wendy E]

We just rescued/adopted an 8 month old (?) German Shepherd mix puppy. No vet visit yet but all up to date on vaccines, neuter etc. what size category for feeding should she be? Medium or Large? The adoption rep said she was most likely full grown.
We are continuing her food of Kirkland Puppy Kibble as of now. Not sure when or if to transition. Thank you!

[anonymous]

And these two:

/forums/topic/should-i-be-feeding-large-breed-food-or-regular/#post-136247
/forums/topic/should-i-be-feeding-large-breed-food-or-regular/#post-136175

Just opinions like the rest of the comments.

[Bianca S]

I wonder if you are feeding them too much? Could the food be high in fiber? I have heard good things about Pro Plan Focus salmon for sensitive skin and stomachs Make sure the food that you choose is appropriate for large breed puppies, it will say so on the bag. For More info visit us at
http://www.openrangepups.com/sheepadoodles

• This reply was modified 6 years, 6 months ago by Bianca S.

[christine v]

I really like this write up re; DCM, it’s a bit more balanced thn the scaremongering articles i often see bandies about.

“There has recently been a rising controversy regarding the effect of Taurine on dogs. Unfortunately, some veterinarians and manufacturers are incorrectly applying the concern to all breeds of dogs and using “grain-free” foods as a scapegoat in order to push their own product agenda. The recommendations from these individuals are unfortunately setting us up for much greater problems in the near future.

The facts:
• Unlike cats, dogs are able to synthesize taurine in their bodies

• Some dog breeds may suffer from taurine deficiency in relation to certain diseases and may need to have taurine added to their diets

• American Cocker Spaniels and certain giant breed dogs (produce taurine in their bodies at a slower rate) appear to be more prone to taurine deficiency

• There are no symptoms directly related to taurine deficiency, but instead symptoms are usually related to dilated cardiomyopathy (DCM) which can be caused by taurine deficiency

• Grain-free pet foods are not the cause of taurine deficiency; however, potatoes and some legumes MAY affect taurine absorption if in large enough quantities (this is still unclear and only speculation at this point) and can be found in many “grain-free” as well as “grained” pet foods

Most importantly:
• The proportion of plant to animal protein sources may be a contributing factor (the lower the animal protein and the higher the plant protein, the more likely the food is to create low blood taurine levels)

• Many of the sick dogs from the original study had normal blood taurine levels and many of the dogs with low blood taurine levels did not respond to taurine supplementation

Conclusion:
Studies like this can be very good for the industry and our pets so long as they are interpreted correctly and organizations do not use the findings to further their agenda. Bottomline, grain-free foods are not the villain. It is irresponsible to claim that it is the problem given the actual true facts.

Genetics, disease, and large amounts of low-nutrient dense, high glycemic carbohydrates paired with minimal animal protein appears to be the problem, and would be even more specific than just blaming grain-free foods. There are grain-free foods to avoid, just as there are “grain-in” foods to avoid. Grains are certainly not an important, needed part of a dog or cat’s diet. But neither are carbs like potatoes, or peas which are mostly found in grain-free foods. They are merely replacements for grains like rice, corn, oatmeal, and others. Unfortunately dry kibble dog food (which is the only form of dog food this should even be associated with), MUST have those types of carbs in them to make the kibble hold together. It’s almost like the “glue” to keep it in kibble form.
We KNOW for a fact that corn and wheat do not do dogs any favors when it comes to their health! Rice is normally fine for most dogs but some will suffer from itchiness and other symptoms due to it being a high-starch carb. Obviously it would be best to avoid rice for an “itchy dog”. This is why grain-free foods exist. They would normally have a higher quality source of carbs binding them and without the toxins and allergens found in cheap cereal grains. It comes down to picking the lesser of evils on the carb source and figuring out what works best for your particular dog.
At EarthWise Pet, we have a comprehensive Certified Pet Dietitian program that trains individuals through over 500 hours of pet nutrition courses and material. Our expertise allows us to assess ingredients, manufacturing, and sourcing of all of our recommended foods. Because of this certification and vetting process, we offer a variety of grain-friendly and grain-free diets with low-carbohydrate content, minimal processing and high animal-based protein levels to ensure biologically appropriate, quality nutrition for your pets with sufficient levels of Taurine. If you have concern that your breed may be predisposed to taurine deficiency, ask your EarthWise Pet associate for recommendations and to see what food is right for your furry family member. We guarantee we have one that will fit your pet’s needs and give you confidence in the ingredients, sourcing and manufacturing processes of the food you feed.

I will add that I personally know thousands of dogs. I have not yet known of one to suffer from DCM, but I have known many that have been afflicted with Cancer, Diabetes, Obesity, and general poor health. In almost all cases, the dogs were fed low-quality dry dog food for most of their lives and that would usually consist of foods loaded with grains. Why would we want to go back to those kinds of diets, grains or no grains?!”

https://www.facebook.com/EarthWisePetHarpersPoint/posts/2349799205080076?__tn__=K-R

[Elizabeth D]

Since I’ve written this, I’ve transitioned to Purina Pro Plan Large Breed puppy for my lab pup and my golden is eating senior Victor and I’ll likely transition him to Bright Minds. I’ve also tried to become more informed on the whole grain free, DCM issue and I do not believe the issue is grains as much as it’s that in the grain frees the peas, legumes, potatoes, etc are blocking taurine. I also don’t know that I’ve seen that Fromms Classic is at issue, but I’ll likely switch out my young lab anyway if anything else, for some variety.

[crazy4cats]

Don’t worry about the DFA star rating! Especially not for a dog with a medical condition. I feed my dogs Purina ProPlan Large Breed Weight Management. I feel that it should be rated a 10 for my dogs.

I don’t agree with the rating system on this site. You can use the information to rate the food however you want. Purina is a good company that has been around for years. They use a team of experts to formulate their food. Good luck!

[Patricia A]

Anon Whole Dog Journal’s article regarding DCM sounds pretty science based to me. There are also articles in Whole Dog Journal regarding the negative effects of yearly vaccinations for our pets . Holistic is not voodoo science anyway. Where some vets will push everything the drug salesman brings to their practice, holistic vets questions the need and the worth of giving certain medications when at times the side effects are worse then the problem . Example flea and tick medicines. Some have devastating effects on the health of our pets and the vets don’t find out till it’s too late. Below is full Whole Dog Journals article .
DCM in Dogs: Taurine’s Role in the Canine Diet
What is taurine-deficiency dilated cardiomyopathy (DCM), and how can dog owners prevent it? (Hint: It involves more than just grain-free foods.)

By Linda P. Case – August 15, 20180

TAURINE FOR DOGS: OVERVIEW

Taurine Is Needed For:

1. Healthy heart function
2. As a component of bile acids
3. Retinal function
4. Reproductive health

Dietary Risk Factors for Reduced Taurine Status:

– Low-protein diet (limited taurine precursors)
– Heat-damaged or poor-quality protein sources
– High dietary fiber (i.e., rice bran, beet pulp, cellulose)
– Lamb and rice diets (speculated)
– Plant-based protein sources (peas, lentils, legumes) (speculated)

Possible Risk Factors for Taurine-Deficiency DCM:

BREEDS
American Cocker Spaniel
English Setter
Golden Retriever
Labrador Retriever
Newfoundland
St. Bernard

SIZE
Large-breed dogs
Dogs with slower metabolic rates

DIET
Factors that reduce taurine production
Factors that increase taurine-degrading microbes in the intestine
Factors that reduce bile acid production

In mid-July 2018, the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) released an alert to veterinarians and pet owners regarding reports of increased incidence of a heart disease called canine dilated cardiomyopathy (DCM). This disorder is characterized by weakening of the heart muscle, which leads to a decreased ability of the heart to pump, and if untreated, to cardiac failure. The reported cases occurred in breeds that are not considered to be genetically predisposed to this disorder.

Further, a significant number of the dogs were found to have reduced levels of circulating taurine in their blood and have responded positively to taurine supplementation. It is speculated that these cases are related to the consumption of foods that negatively affect taurine status, leading to taurine-deficiency DCM. Foods containing high levels of peas, lentils, other legume seeds, and/or potatoes were identified by the FDA as potential risk factors. These ingredients are found commonly in foods that are formulated and promoted as “grain-free.”

As these things go, there followed a lot of hype and a fair bit of hysteria in response. Let us avoid this type of reaction and instead look at the evidence: What do we currently know about the role of diet and taurine in the development of DCM in dogs – and how is it that “grain-free” foods have been recently targeted as a possible dietary cause?

grain free dog food concerns
Signs of Dilated Cardiomyopathy (DCM) in Dogs

DCM is a disease of the heart, which causes the heart muscles themselves to weaken, which, in turn, reduces the ability of the heart to pump blood through the dog’s body as it should. The heart becomes enlarged and flabby, and fluid begins to accumulate in the dog’s lungs. As this condition progresses, it causes congestive heart failure.

Early signs of DCM may include:

– Lethargy, decreased energy
– A persistent cough
– Difficulty breathing, rapid or excessive breathing, or seeming shortness of breath
– Episodes of collapse
– Anorexia (chronic loss of appetite)

By the time these signs appear, the disease may already be fairly advanced. That’s why it’s important to make an appointment to see your veterinarian right away if your dog displays any of these signs, or more than one of these signs. Often, owners of middle-aged or senior dogs think that their dogs’ symptoms are “just old age,” but a quick diagnosis and treatment can restore an affected dog’s quality of life to nearly normal – and extend the dog’s life far past an untreated dog’s prognosis.

Treatment usually involves medications that help the dog’s heart to contract, slow his rapid pulse, help control the accumulation of fluid in his lungs, and dilate his blood vessels – all actions that will improve the heart’s performance.

What is Taurine? Why Do Dogs Need Taurine?

The nutrient taurine is a unique type of amino acid, called a beta-amino sulfonic acid. It is not incorporated into proteins but rather is found primarily as a free amino acid in body tissues and circulating in the blood. Taurine has many functions, but two that are important for this discussion involve its role in normal heart function and its presence as a component of bile acids, which are needed for fat digestion. Most animals obtain adequate taurine to meet their needs by producing it endogenously (in the body) from two other amino acids, methionine and cysteine.

This means that while most animals require taurine physiologically, most do not have a dietary requirement for taurine. The exception to this rule is the cat. Cats (but not dogs) always require a source of taurine in their food. If they do not have it, one of the diseases that they can develop (and possibly die from) is – you guessed it – DCM.

taurine structure
Taurine-deficiency DCM is well documented in cats. We also know quite a lot about the dietary factors that contribute to this disease in that species. In contrast, dogs (usually) do not require a source of dietary taurine. However, we know that some dogs still develop taurine-deficiency DCM. Why does this happen? The history of DCM in cats can help in untangling what may be occurring in dogs.

Taurine-Deficiency DCM in Cats

Looking back, I cannot avoid a sense of déjà vu. In the early 1980s, veterinarians began reporting increased incidences of DCM in pet cats. By 1987, a role for dietary taurine was suspected. In a seminal study, a veterinary researcher at UC Davis reported low plasma (blood) taurine levels in 21 cats with clinical signs of DCM. 1 When the cats were supplemented with taurine, all 21 recovered from the disease. This discovery led to a series of controlled studies that supported the existence of taurine-deficiency DCM in cats who were fed diets that contained sufficient concentrations of taurine.

What was going on?

It has to do with bile acids. Another role of taurine in the body is that it is necessary for normal bile acid function. Taurine is linked to bile acids in the liver to form bile salts. During digestion, these compounds are secreted into the small intestine, where they function to aid in fat digestion. Animals are very efficient at conserving the taurine that is secreted into the intestine by reabsorbing the bile salts back into the body further down the intestinal tract. This occurs through a process called “enterohepatic reutilization” and prevents a daily loss of taurine in the feces.

Herein lies the problem for cats with DCM: If anything happens during digestion that causes the degradation of the bile salt taurine or that inhibits its reabsorption into the body, more is lost in the feces. If this happens consistently, the cat will experience an increase in his or her daily need for dietary taurine. Simply put – if anything causes the cat to poop out more taurine-bile acid complexes (or their degraded by-products), the cat will be in danger of a taurine deficiency if a higher level is not provided in the diet.

This is exactly what was happening in the cats with taurine-deficiency DCM – and is possibly what we are seeing today in dogs. The difference is that we know what diet factors caused taurine deficiency in cats during the late 1980s. These factors are not yet fully understood for dogs (but we can make a few guesses).

What We Know About Diet and Taurine Status

The studies with cats found that several dietary factors influenced taurine status. These were the level and type of dietary protein, the amount and type of dietary fiber, and the degree of heat that was used during food processing. These factors could affect taurine status in three ways:

1. Bile Acid Binding

Certain fibers and peptides (small protein chains) in the food can bind with bile salts in the small intestine and make them unavailable for reabsorption into the body. This results in an increased daily loss of taurine in the feces and a subsequent increase in daily taurine requirement to replace that loss.

2. Increased Microbial Degradation

Thermal processing of protein (extrusion or canning) can lead to the production of Maillard products – complexes of sugars and amino acids that are poorly digested in the small intestine. The undigested complexes travel to the large intestine and provide an intestinal environment that favors increased numbers of taurine-degrading bacteria. An increase in these bacterial populations reduces the proportion of taurine that is available for reabsorption and reuse by the body.

3. Reduced Taurine Availability

Taurine is found naturally in animal-based proteins but is not found in plant-based protein sources. Therefore, providing diets that include a sufficient level of high-quality animal proteins (that are not heat damaged) should ensure adequate taurine intake.

However, protein that is of low quality or that has been excessively heat-treated will be poorly digested, reducing the availability of taurine and of its precursor amino acids, cysteine and methionine.

In the early 1990s, in response to this new information regarding the interaction of dietary factors and taurine status in cats (and their relationship to DCM in cats), the Association of American Feed Control Officials (AAFCO) increased the recommendations for dietary taurine in extruded and canned cat foods.

Taurine Deficiency in Dogs

Unlike the cat, dogs who are fed diets containing adequate levels of protein should be capable of synthesizing enough taurine from cysteine and methionine to meet their needs. Therefore, a requirement for dietary taurine has not been generally recognized in dogs.

However, there is evidence – evidence that we have had for at least 15 years – that certain breeds of dogs, and possibly particular lines within breeds, exhibit a high prevalence of taurine-deficiency DCM. Genetically predisposed breeds include the American Cocker Spaniel, Golden Retriever, Labrador Retriever, Saint Bernard, Newfoundland, and English Setter.  Although the exact underlying cause is not known, it appears that some breeds have either a naturally occurring higher requirement for taurine or a metabolic abnormality that affects their taurine synthesis or utilization.

A second factor that affects taurine status in dogs is size. There is evidence that a large adult size and a relatively slow metabolic rate influences the rate of taurine production in the body and may subsequently lead to a dietary taurine requirement. It is theorized that increased body size in dogs is associated with an enhanced risk for developing taurine deficiency and that this risk may be exacerbated by a breed-specific genetic predisposition.

There is additional evidence that large and giant breed dogs have lower rates of taurine production compared with small dogs. Ultimately, studies suggest that certain dogs possess a genetic predisposition to taurine depletion and increased susceptibility to taurine-deficiency DCM and that this susceptibility may be related to the combined factors of breed, size, and metabolic rate.

Taurine in Dog Food Diets

The recent spate of cases and media attention to taurine-deficiency DCM in dogs suggests that this is a very new problem in dogs. However, it is not new. A connection between diet and DCM in dogs was first described in a paper published in the Journal of the American Veterinary Medical Association in 2001. What is new is the sudden focus on certain pet food ingredients and the target that appears to have been placed upon the backs of all “grain-free” pet food brands by some bloggers and veterinarians.

Not to put too fine a point on this, but the 12 cases of taurine-deficiency DCM described in the 2001 paper were collected between 1997 and 2001, years before grain-free dog foods had arrived on the pet food scene. Rather than disparage one class or type of dog food (or pet food company), it is more important to look at specific dietary factors that may be involved in DCM in dogs.

Generally speaking, these are expected to be the same as those identified for cats, including low protein levels, poorly processed or heat-damaged proteins (leading to Maillard products), and the inclusion of a high proportion of plant-based protein sources such as peas and legumes.

Over the past 15 years, reduced taurine status in dogs has been associated with feeding lamb meal and rice diets, soybean-based diets, rice bran, beet pulp, and high fiber diets. As with cats, there appear to be multiple dietary (and genetic) factors involved.

For example, it was theorized that the perceived (not proven) association between lamb meal and taurine status was due to low levels of available amino acids present in the lamb meal, or to excessive heat damage of the protein, or to the confounding factor of the inclusion of rice bran in many lamb meal-containing foods. To date, none of these factors have been conclusively proven or disproven. However, the most recent study showed that three types of fiber source – rice bran, cellulose, and beet pulp – all caused reduced plasma taurine levels in dogs when included in a marginally low protein diet, with beet pulp causing the most pronounced decrease.

Complicated? You bet. This is why it is important to avoid making unsupported claims about certain foods and brands. Taurine-deficiency DCM has been around for a while in dogs and continues to need study before making definitive conclusions about one or more specific dietary causes.

Current Considerations of Taurine in Dog Food

We know that any dietary factor that reduces the availability of taurine precursors, binds taurine bile salts in the intestine, or causes an increase in the bacteria populations that degrade taurine, can reduce a dog’s ability to synthesize taurine or will increase taurine degradation and/or loss in the feces. These changes could ultimately compromise a dog’s taurine status (especially if the dog was genetically predisposed) and affect heart health. In extreme cases, as we are seeing, this can lead to taurine-deficiency DCM (see “A Few Things to Know About Taurine” above).

The FDA report identified foods that contain high amounts of peas, lentils, legume seeds, or potatoes to be of potential concern. The FDA also stated that the underlying cause of DCM in the reported cases is not known and that at this time, the diet-DCM relationship is only correlative (not causative). However, this has not stopped various bloggers and even some veterinarians from targeting small pet food companies and/or grain-free brands of food, and implying that these foods, and these foods alone, are causing taurine-deficiency DCM in dogs. Their reasoning is that peas and legumes are present in high amounts in foods that are formulated and marketed as grain-free.

However, the truth is that many companies and brands of food include these ingredients. More importantly, there is no clear evidence showing that a particular dog food type, brand, or even ingredient is solely responsible for taurine-deficiency DCM in dogs.

Rather, it is more reasonable and responsible to speculate that one or more of these ingredients, their interactions, or the effects of ingredient quality, heat treatment, and food processing may play a role. Furthermore, the underlying cause could be the protein, starch, or fiber fractions of these ingredients. As plant-source proteins, peas, lentils, and legumes include varying amounts of starch (both digestible and resistant forms) and dietary fiber. These protein sources are also generally less nutritionally complete and less digestible than are high quality animal source proteins – additional factors that could influence a dog’s ability to both produce and use taurine. Potatoes, in contrast, provide a digestible source of starch in an extruded food but also contain varying levels of resistant starch, which is not digested and behaves much like dietary fiber in the intestinal tract.

Conclusions on Grain-Free Food and DCM

Because any or all of these dietary factors could be risk factors for taurine-deficiency DCM in dogs, and because peas, legumes, and other ingredients identified by the FDA report have not yet been fully studied, the heart of the matter is that no conclusions can yet be made about the underlying dietary cause or causes of taurine-deficiency DCM in dogs.

But given what we do know, we recommend feeding a diet that contains sufficient levels of high-quality, animal-source protein, does not include plant-source proteins as primary protein sources, and does not contain high levels of dietary fiber.

If you are worried about your dog’s taurine status or heart health, whether due to his diet history or physical signs that are of concern, see your veterinarian for a complete physical examination and, if needed, to measure plasma levels of taurine. 

Cited Studies

1. Pion PD, Kittleson MD, Rogers QR, et al. “Myocardial failure in cats associated with low plasma taurine: A reversible cardiomyopathy.” Science 1987; 237:764-768.

2. Earl KE, Smith PM. “The effect of dietary taurine content on the plasma taurine concentration of the cat.” British Journal of Nutrition 1991; 66:227-235.

3. Hickman MA, Morris JG, Rogers QR. “Effect of processing on the fate of dietary taurine in cats.” Journal of Nutrition 1990; 120:995-1000.

4. Hickman HA, Morris JG, Rogers QR. “Intestinal taurine and the enterohepatic circulation of taurocholic acid in the cat.” Advances in Experimental Medicine and Biology 1992; 315:45-54.

5. Freeman LM, Rush JE, Brown DJ, et al. “Relationship between circulating and dietary taurine concentrations in dogs with dilated cardiomyopathy.” Veterinary Therapeutics 2001; 370-378.

6. Backus RC, Ko KS, Fascetti AJ. “Low plasma taurine concentration in Newfoundland dogs is associated with low plasma methionine and cysteine concentrations and low taurine synthesis.” Journal of Nutrition 2006; 136:2525-2533.

7. Ko KS, Backus RC, Berg JR, et al. “Differences in taurine synthesis rate among dogs relate to differences in their maintenance energy requirement.” Journal of Nutrition 2007; 137:1171-1175.

8. Fascetti AJ, Reed JR, Roger QR, et al. “Taurine deficiency in dogs with dilated cardiomyopathy: 12 cases (1997 – 2001).” Journal of the American Veterinary Medical Association 2001; 223:1137-1141.

9. Delaney SJ, Kass PH, Rogers QR, Fascetti AJ. “Plasma and whole blood taurine in normal dogs of varying size fed commercially prepared food.” Journal of Animal Physiology and Animal Nutrition 2003; 87:235-244.

10. Torres CL, Backus RC, Fascetti AJ, et al. “Taurine status in normal dogs fed a commercial diet associated with taurine deficiency and dilated cardiomyopathy.” Journal of Animal Physiology and Animal Nutrition 2003; 87:359-372.

11. Ko KS, Fascetti AJ. “Dietary beet pulp decreases taurine status in dogs fed low protein diet.” Journal of Animal Science and Technology 2016; 58:29-39.

Linda P. Case is the owner of AutumnGold Consulting & Dog Training Center in Mahomet, Illinois. Linda is the author of Dog Food Logic, has a new book, Dog Smart, and writes The Science Dog blog.

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LEAVE A REPLY

• This reply was modified 6 years, 7 months ago by Patricia A.
• This reply was modified 6 years, 7 months ago by Patricia A.
• This reply was modified 6 years, 7 months ago by Patricia A.

[Patricia A]

So very sorry about your dogs passing. My Chloe also died from pneumonia . . She had no symptoms until I noticed at her walk that day.she would keep stopping with labored breathing. Took her to our long time vet same day. Unfortunately, when diagnosed with x-rays we trusted him when he assured us to just give antibiotics and take her into a steamy shower tap to loosen congestion on her chest and she’ll be fine He wasn’t concerned .Early the next morning we rushed her back to vets office when her breathing got worse .. We were told race to the large animal emergency hospital 15 minutes away. She died in my arms as we pulled into parking lot. We still feel such guilt . She was struggling to breath that night but since I got two antibiotics into her we thought because of assurance from vet, that breathing would improve and she’ll be fine. She was 13 and we and vet should have been more concerned at that age . I mean how could a vet see a dog the day before her death and not know she was very ill. This was many years ago but tears are still coming from my eyes thinking about this. Vet and head vet from office called to apologize . I think they thought we would sue. Mistakes are made so must forgive him and ourselves.
Regarding the enlarged heart. Many small breeds have genetic chronic mitral valve disease (CMVD) . That is what my soon to be 17 year old Chihuahua has. So if your vet didn’t clarify after ultrasound is DCM then especially if she was a small breed the enlarged heart could be from mitral valve disease. This type never has anything to do with diet.
I feed Stella’s also. Their kibble has a lot of peas/legumes. They assure me that their small breed chicken has high protein coming from meat vs legumes. However, kibble is a tiny part of their diet. Mostly mine eat Stella’s freeze dried chicken and turkey flavor/protein. I rotate to be safe with Primal turkey/sardine and duck. I also feed Bixbi rawwble in beef and chicken and salmon. I started VERY slowly with each protein/brand and now I just mix it up every few months. They also get our cooked food when appropriate. Hope this helps.

• This reply was modified 6 years, 7 months ago by Patricia A.
• This reply was modified 6 years, 7 months ago by Patricia A.
• This reply was modified 6 years, 7 months ago by Patricia A.
• This reply was modified 6 years, 7 months ago by Patricia A.

[crazy4cats]

Joanne-
You could always purchase a ProPlan Beef canned food to feed as a topper. I buy the ProPlan Large Breed Beef and Rice canned and put a couple of TBS mixed in their food. They love it. Bad thing is, you may get the stink eye if it’s not on the food when they get used to it.

[crazy4cats]

Hi Joanne,
Just wanted to let you know that I am now a fan of Purina ProPlan. I used to feed my two large dogs a rotation of mostly grain free along with some with grain. I never really understood why grain free could be better with all the peas and potatoes. Especially when the recommendation is to feed your dogs boiled chicken breast with over cooked rice when they have bad bellies. Why is it now all the sudden best to stay away from rice? I followed the trend and marketing anyway. You can still give in to peer pressure when you’re a grown adult and know better!

When the FDA warning came out and our very own Aimee showed concern over it, I switched. My dogs are part Golden and it made me nervous. Anyway after feeding Purina for 8 months I had an echocardiogram done for peace of mind. Thankfully, they are both fine.

They do best on the Purina ProPlan Focus Lg Breed Weight Management formula. I tried the Purina One Weight Mgt with turkey and they had a ton of gas. Too bad as Purina One is a little cheaper. Lol,

My dogs stools are the smallest and firmest they have ever been. Which is saying a lot! Their coats and skin are good too. Although they have never had issue with that. I may give Iams and/or Eukanuba a try sometime in the future as well. Good luck!

[crazy4cats]

I’m sure the vets on that site cannot make formula recommendations without actually examining your dog or consulting with a vet who has.

I switched my dogs to Purina ProPlan Focus Large Breed Adult Weight Management. Whew! Say that real fast. Lol!

What are you feeding now? I tried to find a kibble that had a similar analysis as what I was feeding. For example, calories, fat, and fiber. You could call or email whichever brand you choose for help choosing a formula.

I’m glad people are finding out about this and switching foods at least until the exact cause is found out. Good luck!

[crazy4cats]

Hi DanniB –
It certainly wouldn’t hurt to feed large breed puppy food just to be safe. It is formulated correctly to keep growing joints of large breed pups healthy.

Lots of large breed pups are raised on Purina Pro Plan large breed puppy food with excellent results.

I wouldn’t feed Fromm. It is considered a boutique food company. They do not have a vetrinary nutritionist on staff and have not done any testing, research or feed trials since the 90’s. I don’t know much about the Wellness brand. I’d stick to Purina, Royal Canin, Hill’s, Iams or Eukanuba. They have all been around for a long time and do much testing on their food. Good luck and have fun with your new puppy!

[Susan]

Hi Jaimie,

I was just about to post a post to give her a 21 day course of Metronidazole, Patch a 40lb dog would take low dose -200mg Metronidazole tablets twice a day for 5-7 days then on day 8 the last 2 weeks I’d give him 1 x 200mg Metronidazole tablet with his dinner, my vet writes Patch 5-6 repeat scripts of Metronidazole & when I start to see Patches poos becoming sloppy for a few day & his poos are going yellow, I quickly take script of Metronidazole to chemist & start him on Metronidazole straight away..

I think she might have food sensitivities & this puts her gut flora out of balance making too much bad bacteria & not enough good bacteria…

Unless vet does Endoscope & takes 2 x Biopsies 1 x Stomach & 1 x Small Bowel your really not going to know what’s wrong?? Biopsies give vet answers.
all the other test are a waste of money as biopsies are needed in the end, I noticed with Patch when he’d eat certain dry foods they would cause an in balance in his gut flora…

“Dysbiosis” Leaky Gut typically occurs when the bacteria in gastrointestinal (GI) tract — which includes your stomach and intestines — become unbalanced. Dysbiosis syndrome is a disturbance in the small intestines, leading to damage of the intestinal lining and microvilli.

Patch hasn’t needed his Metronidazole over 1 & 1/2 yr now since he’s been eating “Wellness Core Large Breed” “Wellness Simple Turkey & Potato LID” & “Wellness Complete Health Grain Free Chicken kibble” I don’t know if its the Wellness kibble being more cleaner less toxins & heavy metals that’s helped stopped his sloppy poos/diarrhea, or he’s finally eating a kibble that doesn’t have any allergens that are irritating his stomach & bowel, Wellness uses Probiotics & Prebiotics in their dry kibbles maybe Probiotics have made his gut healthy…he does 2-3 firm poos a day, I walk Patch after he eats, walking helps move on his poo & he isn’t holding his poo, he’s a bugger wont poo in his yard only his morning 7am poo he will do in his yard.

Touch wood Patch hasn’t had Diarrhea since March 2018 when he started eating Wellness Core Large breed adult kibble.

Keep a diary, write down what she is eating, every time you change her food write down new food, does it have grains or grain free, does the kibble have Probiotics, how high is the fiber %, then over the months & years you will start to see a pattern, does she suffer with “Food Sensitivities”?, is the kibble too high in fiber ingredients or probiotics & causing an in balance in her gut??

I just goggle Blue Buffalo (Life Protection Formula, Adult Large Breed, Chicken) gee there’s a lot of ingredients too many & peas?? Pea fiber, Pea protein, Pea starch, Barley,??
Patch can eat peas in a dry kibble but when the pet food has Pea fiber, Pea protein, Pea starch this is when he starts getting his sloppy yellow poos…. too much fiber also when he eats barley his poos start going yellow & sloppy then diarrhea…

The next food you introduce make sure it has limited ingredients

* Wellness Simple Turkey & Potato
https://www.wellnesspetfood.com/natural-dog-food/product-catalog/simple-limited-ingredient-turkey-potato-recipe

* Wellness Core Large Breed Adult
https://www.wellnesspetfood.com/natural-dog-food/product-catalog/core-large-breed-large-breed

* Canidae Pure Wild Boar
https://www.canidae.com/dog-food/products/canidae-grain-free-pure-wild-boar-dry-dog

* Natural Balance –
N/B Potato & Duck – low fiber -3%, no peas,
https://www.chewy.com/natural-balance-lid-limited/dp/104644

*N/B Lamb & Rice large breed – no peas, fiber 4%,
https://www.chewy.com/natural-balance-lid-limited/dp/29461

N/B Sweet Potato & Fish – no peas, fiber 5%
https://www.chewy.com/natural-balance-lid-limited/dp/104659

Stay away from kibbles that have too many ingredients, you’ll never know what ingredients she might be sensitive too?? stay away from Pea fiber, Pea protein, Pea starch, if the kibble has peas that’s OK but not the extra pea (fiber).

[DanniB]

Thanks for your advice! I guess we could do a bag of either large breed or regular and see what the vet says, you’re right. One bag won’t make a huge difference. I just wasn’t sure what exactly constituted a large breed. Our other dog is a mini dach, so there’s no question that he’s a small breed lol.

[anonymous]

If you get a small bag of large breed puppy food for now, I doubt it will do any harm and if the vet says it’s not necessary then you can get the regular puppy food next time.

Your dog could be between 40/50 pounds? Not sure if that would be considered a large breed….time will tell.

[anonymous]

The vet should be able to estimate what her adult weight will be, in the meantime as long as she is thriving try not to worry. 🙂

Enjoy having a puppy!

Hope this helps. http://skeptvet.com/Blog/2010/01/nutrition-in-large-breed-puppies/

[DanniB]

I am planning on using Fromm or Wellness Complete, definitely grain-inclusive. Im just not sure if I should be feeding the large breed formula. We estimate he’ll be 40-50 lbs but of course it’s hard to know.

[anonymous]

I like Fromm or Blue.
https://www.gofromm.com/fromm-family-puppy-gold-food-for-dogs

They have a large breed puppy formula as well.

Stay with grain inclusive.

[DanniB]

We just got a new puppy. He is a lab/shih tzu cross. He is 8 weeks old and weighs 10 lbs. Should I be feeding him a large breed food?

[anonymous]

skeptvet says:
April 21, 2019 at 1:23 pm
There is no perfect food, and a food that works well for one dog may not work for another, so the best you can do is choose a maintenance diet from an established company (one with veterinary nutritionists on staff to oversee formulation and quality control) and then monitor important signs, such as weight, stool quality, coat quality, etc. There are many good choices and only a few I would recommend against (raw diets, and BEG diets).

Above is an excerpt from :

FDA Webinar Discussing Dietary Risk Factors for Dilated Cardiomyopathy

Also: http://skeptvet.com/Blog/2010/01/nutrition-in-large-breed-puppies/

Hope this helps!

PS: I mix foods all the time, I can’t afford to throw out good food.

[Susan]

Hi Matt,
Good thing you’ve done taken on a rescue dog, just remember a dogs behaviour is human taught…. 🙁
He has run free & has been the boss for 8yrs, now there’s all these new rules, he’ll get use to it, the lady let him be the boss & do what he wanted, Patch was sorta the same when I rescued him but he had IBD & would eat everything, your dog needs to be re trained & you “can’ teach an older dog new tricks, but some breeds are very stubborn…
My Patch was 4 when I rescued him within 2 weeks he pretty much picked up on all the house rules I used food for training but I didn’t know he had IBD in the beginning so lots of diarrhea…
My vet asked the Animal Behaviourist vet to pop in & see us when we learnt he has IBD, we lived in communal unit/villas & Patch would go down stars to go toilet & on his way he sniff out the neighbour cats poo, on our morning walks he would eat everything, he was a walking vacuum cleaner, we lived in town near beach, after Friday & Saturday nights there would be pizza, chinese, vomit, everything on the streets from the night before, I had to wait till streets were cleaned & hosed down before going on our morning walks…
The Animal Behaviourist taught me “Leave It” she said put food/treat on floor in between your toes/feet show him but don’t let him get it & say “Leave it” then when he leaves the food under your foot alone reward him with a better treat from “your” hand… here’s link

Teach Your Dog to Leave It: It Could Save His Life

Always praise him when he does do something good…Tell him “YOUR A GOOOOOD BOY” & pat him reward all good behaviour..
The rescue vet told me to go to Puppy School even though he was 4 yrs old, Puppy School is good it teaches the human what to do & NOT do, or do research online there’s a few good f/b groups that are run by Animal behaviourist, if I find the group I’ll post it, cause your dog loves food he’ll be very easy to train, carry some kibble/treats in your pocket so when he goes to eat something on floor say “Leave It” “Leave It” sit then he gets reward for leaving food on floor, he can ONLY have food/treats kibble you give him…

When visitors come Patch is VERY friendly & gets over excited & when people talk in high pitch squeaky voice this makes Patch more excited & he starts to jump up to kiss their face & head butts their head & nose, he loved our gas lady one day she bend down the same time he was jumping up to kiss her & he head butted her nose, it started bleeding, cause he gets sooooo excited I put away his STRONG rubber toys in kitchen cupboard & as soon as someone comes to front door he cries & whinges at the front door then as soon ashe sees me he runs into kitchen & sits in front of the kitchen cupboard for 1 of his rubber toys, I think he has a rubber fetish he loves the strong smelling rubber toys, I just order another rubber toy you can put kibble in the rubber slots & wet food in middle so while visitors are over he’s busy in the back loungeroom chewing on his rubber toy & he’s leaving my visitors alone, no sloppy kisses & no more head butts..

While everyone is eating dinner you could also put his dinner dry kibble meal in one of those interactive game toys & he’s eating as well on his own mat in a corner away from the dinner table
Chewy has treat toys under $20….
https://www.chewy.com/b/treat-toys-dispensers-2336?rh=c%3A288%2Cc%3A315%2Cc%3A319
the dog works to get their food out & he’s slowly eating, don’t get a puzzle toy that looks too easy, Patch learnt if he pushes the whole game with his big nose the kibble falls out of the turning ball while the ball is in the maize but it still keeps him busy trying to get his food, he just works out how to get his kibble quicker….
https://www.chewy.com/b/treat-toys-dispensers-2336?rh=c%3A288%2Cc%3A315%2Cc%3A319
I think the new rubber egg shape toy I’ve just order is a good treat toy it looks like it will hold the kibble pieces. http://www.allforpawspet.com/Product?idvariant=1293
I can put his kibble in side rubber slots & add some boiled sweet potato in middle….

It’s good to give your dog healthy fresh foods, tin salmon, sardines, mussels, meaty bones, egg, Vegetables – sweet potato, broccoli, cooked carrot, frozen beans are good to help lose weight & keep a dog feeling full longer etc. Fruit- apple pieces NO seeds, blueberries, watermelon, & remember to reduce his kibble amount & feed partly boiled vegetables & feed 3 meals a day instead of 2 larger meals a day, he’ll feel fuller longer & might break his circle looking for food, or feed his 2 meals a day & make up a treat toy with veggies, fruit, some yogurt & freeze, then give around lunch time or for his breakfast or his dinner give healthy treat toy when its a boring time for him he can lick & lick the toy that’s full of healthy low calories ingredients… stick to feeding him the same times every day so he gets into a routine…
also find a few other brands he likes & eats so you can rotate between kibbles & freeze dried foods so he isn’t getting bored eating the same dry kibble 24/7 then he’s looking for something else to eat also rotating kibbles/freeze dried foods is good just in case the brand he’s eating is high in toxins, heavy metals, lead & contaminates….
Pet Shops all have money back guarantee for palatability..

Have you tried “Buckley Liberty” freeze dried, Buckley Liberty uses clean meats & has done very well when tested every 3months for high toxins, heavy metals & contaminates it has come 1st over 1 year now…
https://buckleypet.com/collections/all

Good-Luck

[Susan]

Hi Jane,
I rescued a English Staffy 6yrs ago who suffers with IBD, Patch was gulping his dry food, at first I was told add warm water & soften Patches kibble, but once kibbles are soft YOU MUST drain all the water out, so your left with the soft kibble, I was cuffing my hand in the bowl around the wet kibbles & pushing out excess water so there was no water & the kibbles weren’t really wet, but when Patch ate the wet kibble he started getting bad acid reflux + swallowing & swallowing about 20mins after he ate the wet kibble, then his new vet said stop soaking his kibble in water, feed 3-4 smaller meals thru the day instead of feeding him 2 large meals of kibble.. he eats between 2 or 3 cups kibble a day depending on the brand, instead of giving him 1 cup kibble at 7am, I give 1/2 a cup 7am & the other 1/2 the cup at 9am I put his bowl on a small stool, level with the dog mouth, when he’s standing, his mouth needs to be inline with stomach when eating, you can buy those raised stainless steel bowls & they go into a wooden thing or there’s stainless legs holding the bowl.. or buy those slow feeding bowls & I put his bowl on his little kids potty plastic stool….
I feed his wet food in a slow feeder bowl & his kibble goes in his stainless steel raised bowl, I noticed he was gulping heaps of air when the kibble was in those slow feeding bowls, he was licking & licking up the kibbles, then he couldn’t get the kibble, then after eating he was burping very loud burps, so no more slow feeder bowls for his kibble meal, I like small kibbles they are easier to digest if he doesn’t chew them….
I feed Patch 7am-1/2 a cup kibble, 9am -1/2 a cup, 12pm – 1/3 cup wet meal, 5pm – 1/2 a heap cup kibble & 7.30pm-1/4 a cup kibble, at lunch he eats either Freeze Dried Raw I add a little bit of water so the freeze dried comes to life & reconstitutes or Sweet potato & tin Salmon, he gets something healthy for lunch…
I try & reduce the amount of kibble I feed & replace with healthy foods, tin Salmon, Egg, Green Veggies, Sweet Potato, Blueberries, Mussels, Yogurt, Almonds as Kibble isn’t the healthiest thing to fed our pets..

Follow “Rodney Habib” on face Book, he’s always testing something, you’ll be surprise what he found when they did blind testing on Purina Pro Plan Healthy Minds, it tested positive to Glyphosate (Round Up)
https://www.facebook.com/rodneyhabib

After soaking his kibble I noticed some kibbles went soft within 20mins then there were kibbles (Vet Diets, Science Diet, Royal Canine, Purina) that would take hours to go soft, Patch never did well on these harder kibbles that took forever to go soft in warm water, so I started looking for kibbles that digested quickly & move thru stomach small bowel quicker instead of sitting in his stomach causing pain, he’d whinge & cry after eating, something was wrong…
when I did my kibble test the small kibbles went soft quickest within 20mins were – , Canidae, Wellness, Eagle Pack, Earthborn Holistic, Pro Pac Ultimates these brand kibble soften very quickly…

Get a cup of warm water drop 2 kibbles in cup of water, a good kibble will float to the top of the water not sink, a good easy to digest kibble goes soft within 20-30mins, also feed large breed kibbles, they are made for large breed dogs bowel to prevent bloat, Large breed kibbles are lower in Kcals so they’re not a dense kibble, dense kibbles are harder to digest more work on stomach & pancreas, Patch does best when the kibble is under 360Kcals per cup also the fat isn’t as high in large breed kibbles, the man at Pet Shop told me to feed Patch a large Breed kibble it will help with his IBD, so last year I tried Wellness Core Large Breed Adult kibble & it helped Patch with his IBD, I think the low Kcals -330per cup, lower fat-13%max & the potato in the Wellness Core L/B Adult helped with his IBD also Potato firms up poos..
I nilly put him to sleep last year he went down hill after Summer, everything he ate he was reacting too.

I’ll try & find a link I have, its a study that was done on small breed dogs bowel & a large breed dog bowel… it explains how small breeds don’t seem to suffer from bowel problems like large breed dogs do..

[Lindsey T]

Deric-Ferdinand is now over a year old. We struggled with soft stools to no avail for 6 months. The one thing that the vet did that helped us was prescribe a powder antibiotic called tylosin/Tylan powder. We had tried a lot of things and lots of foods and nothing helped. The Tulane helped a bit, but we did still have some soft ones in that time. He hit is peak of growth at 8 months and that’s when it suddenly just stopped. The vet says he sees it with large breeds because their growth is so fast and the tummies cant keep up with any food in the amount they need it in.
He’s great now…just needed time to catch up.

Hope that helps…it’s messy…but it’s temporary. Keep checking in with the vet.

[Patricia A]

Kimberly A Yes my bad I miswrote. MEANT to write that not all ENLARGED HEARTS are caused by DCM. So just wanted others to know that if you have a senior small breed dog enlarged hearts are normally caused by a predisposition for some to have DMVD which can eventually in older years lead to the enlarged heart with symptoms associated with.
Thank you for posting and your concern Kimberly. Hannah is doing well now with cough suppressant for her cough(trachea collapse also). She’ll be getting ultrasound next weeks also.

• This reply was modified 6 years, 8 months ago by Patricia A.

[Susan]

Hi Jamie,
My boy suffers with IBD, I feed kibbles that have Potato & Sweet Potato works best for him, as soon as he eats Hills, Purina or Royal Canine we end up at the vets needing a course of Metronidazole, he doesn’t do well on grains..
Your best off doing an elimination diet to work out if she has food sensitivities??…
Get a kibble that has just 1 meat protein & 1-2 carbs like “Wellness Simple Turkey & Potato” kibble then once your dog is stable & doing really well start adding 1 new ingredient over a 4-6 week period & see do the poos get sloppy & keep a diary.. Does she mouth lick & swallow, gulp (Acid Reflux) when she vomits is it yellow??
I’m wondering does she have the Helicobacter?? It’s a bad bacteria that lives in the stomach walls, does she act like she is starving all the time?? this is 1 of the symptoms you have when you suffer with Helicobacter + vomiting & acid reflux this is what Patch suffers with, Best to do Endoscope + Biopsies if it vomiting continues..
or ask vet can prescribe the Triple Therapy meds to kill the Helicobacter, meds are – Metronidazole, Amoxicillin & Omeprazole taken for 21 days given every 12 hours with a meal the 20mg x Omeprazole is just given of a morning once a day…

When Patch was eating a kibble that was Lamb or Fish he was vomiting, so I don’t know were these kibbles higher in contaminates, heavy metals & toxins?? cause since he’s been eating Wellness, Canidae the vomiting has all stopped now he does take an Acid blocker called “Pantoprazole” 20mg of a morning now Vets normally prescribe 20mg- Omeprazole.. when they have acid reflux – gulping, mouth licking, swallowing, grinding teeth, vomiting early hours of the morning yellow acid vomits..
also are you feeding 4 smaller meals a day, don’t feed 2 large meals a day, its too much work on the pancreas & stomach.
I feed at 7am-1 cup, 12pm-1/3 a cup, 5pm-1cup & 7.30pm-1/4 a cup some lunch days Patch doesn’t eat kibble he eats cooked meal boiled sweet potato, no rice as rice ferments in the gut or freeze dried “Frontier Pets” has human grade ingredients.

These foods Patch does really well on

Wellness Core Large Breed Adult Chicken & Turkey
Wellness Simple Turkey & Potato
Wellness Complete Health Grain Free Chicken
Canidae Pure Wild Boar
Canidae Pure Meadow Senior Chicken & Turkey
Nutragold Turkey & Sweet Potato

I rotate his Grain Free kibbles as soon as the kibble bag is running out, I buy another brand that has Sweet Potato or Potato lean white meats are best to stay away from fish as main protein as fish is higher in toxins & contaminates.
Then I rotate old kibble & mix in the new brand kibble over 1 week, then do the same as the new kibble starts ending make sure you have enough kibble for 10days to introduce a kibble she was doing well on or another brand you want to try.. best to have at least 3 different brands you know she does OK on..
My boy starts to react if he eats the same dry kibble month after month also rotating foods strengthen their gut & immune system, you should start her on a good probiotic so her gut gets healthy… Wellness & Canidae have the Probiotics sprayed on the kibbles to strengthen gut.

A really good product called “Adored Breast Healthy Gut”
If you want to try something natural Adored Beast is getting great reviews from people who have a dogs suffering with IBD & IBD..
Have a look at “Adored Beast Gut Soothe” & “Adored Beast Love Bugs”

“Adored Breast Healthy Gut”
https://www.adoredbeast.com/collections/all

Julie Anne Lee – “Adored Beast Love Bugs” – Probiotics & Prebiotics

Have you joined the “Dogs with Inflammatory Bowel Disorder IBD” on facebook
it’s a really good group when you need help…
https://www.facebook.com/groups/11164787803/

Also after she vomits or 20mins before she eats have you tried Slippery Elm powder made into a Slurry it soothes the esophagus, stomach & bowel..

I use the Slippery Elm Powder made into a slurry, go to health food store buy slippery elm powder not the capsules. Health food store sell the Slippery Elm powder..
add 1/2 a teaspoon into a cup, boil the jug & slowly add the boiling water & stir quickly till you get a thin paste/slurry you pull up into a syringe 4ml & give 20mins before a meal.. I cover the cup with foil put in fridge & take out when needed again, it turns into a jelly then boil the jug & slowly add boiling water & stir till you have a slurry again & use then I throw out & make a new batch the next day..
Slippery Elm powder soothe the esophagus, stomach & bowel, good for nausea, acid reflux, rumbling grumbling gasses going thru the bowel – loud noises.. also helps firm poos..

[Susan]

Hi Patrica,
Wellness is a really good brand, I feed the Wellness Core Large Breed Adult cause it has lower fat & lower Kcals then the Wellness Core Small Breed…
I also Feed Wellness Complete Health Grain Free, Canidae Pure Wild, Canidae Pure Meadow Senior is really good aswell… also Wellness has been around nilly 100yrs so they’d know what they’re doing.

These brands are the only brands Patch doesn’t react too with his IBD when he stays on these brands longer then 3 months, maybe they use better quality ingredients + he’s eating the proper ingredients listed on ingredient list, when I feed other brands he starts to react after 2months?? 🙁
If you scroll down you can click on “Contact Us” you can talk with Dog Food Advisor – Mike Sagman
address your post to him & ask him why was the Stella & Chewy freeze dry Review changed??
it mighten have anything to do with DCM??

[Jaimie K]

Our vet did prescribe Hill’s i/d, but with the Hill’s recalls currently I did not purchase any. She is currently doing well on boiled chicken and rice, but I can’t keep her on that for long. When this happened 2 months ago we did the same thing (also did hamburger and rice when we didn’t have chicken) and she recovered well. She’s also on antibiotics (Metronidazole) although she was negative for bacteria and Giardia, so I’m not sure if it’s the diet or the meds that are helping.

I’m looking into Canidae, as that seems like the best option that is easily accessible in our area. I’m also considering going back to Royal Canin large breed adult… if I’m remembering correctly she did well on that and the only reason we switched is it wasn’t easy for us to get when we lived in a rural area. That’s when we switched to Pro Plan.

I switched to Blue Buffalo to increase the fiber, but I’m wondering if I should have decreased it? Thoughts, anyone?

[Jaimie K]

My dog has commonly had loose stool for a large portion of her life. She is a 3yo female (spayed) yellow Labrador Retriever. To make a long story short – we finally switched to Blue Buffalo (Life Protection Formula, Adult Large Breed, Chicken) because it had more fiber and I thought that might help. She has had solid stools on this food, but has had 2 incidences (two months apart) of severe, bloody diarrhea and vomiting. We went to the vet and all tests came back negative/normal both times (parasites, bacteria, full blood panel, x-rays for foreign body). The 2nd time the vet recommended switching dog food (he does not know what we feed).

Does anyone have suggesstions for a dog food I can look into? I don’t even know where to start.
In the past she has been on Royal Canin (prescription GI puppy formula, regular puppy large breed formula, and regular adult large breed formula), Purina ProPlan (can’t remember the formula) and Nature’s Recipe grain free variety (salmon and sweet potato). The vomiting and diarrhea are her only health concerns.

[Elizabeth D]

I’m currently feeding two of my dogs Fromms Classic and my pup with digestive issues Wellness Complete Health Large Breed. I recently lost my lab who was on Zignature and he did really well on it. I just don’t understand why Dog Advisor doesn’t have a list of top recommended grain inclusive foods or if they’re saying that those just don’t make it to the top.
I’m kind of interested in Victor-I’ve seen a lot about them recently and I’d love to get all three dogs on the same food if possible.

[anonymous]

Or: https://www.gofromm.com/fromm-family-large-breed-puppy-gold-food-for-dogs

https://www.gofromm.com/fromm-family-heartland-gold-large-breed-adult-food-for-dogs

[darren j]

Through the years we have had issues with yeast (licking paws excessively, red sore paws, itching ears, red inside ears, black stinky stuff inside ears, sores on belly and moreso in groin area, our first attempt at solving this was repeated trips to vet (antibiotics, oatmeal wash, anti-microbial shampoos, scraping for mites, trying just about every dog food out there from cheap to high dollar, grain free to organic so on and so on, what we found is that some dogs can eat just about any dog food out there and be just fine but other dogs are more adversely effected by the non meat products in the dog food and once they develop the yeast it can take awhile sometimes up to 1 to 3 months to clear it up, we found that zymox helps for the ears, coconut oil helps for paws, also keeping the dogs from getting wet (wet conditions help to breed yeast), but these are just like bandaids and do not eliminate the underlying problem and through years of trial, error, experimenting and research we have found the problem is THE FOOD, and that when a dogfood says its 26 or even 30 percent it is not telling you how much of that 26 or 30 percent protein is coming from meat and how much of that is coming from other sources like grains, veggies(peas) or other non-meat items, and one of the reasons the more expensive grain free foods can make it worse is because peas carry a large amount of protien and many of those foods are loaded with peas, and just just because meat is the first ingredient does not necessarily mean that there is more meat than grain or other stuff (example 30% meat, 25% potato, 20% peas, 15% percent beets = a dog food that is 30% meat and 60% grain/veggie/starches but still is allowed to put meat as the number one ingredient and list the protein at 26% but actually half of that protein is coming from non-meat sources which turn to sugar in the dogs system and promote yeast, the only food we have found so far that has cleared this up is Victor Hi-Pro Plus (I am not a Victor salesperson by the way nor do I work for Victor or any affiliate), this food actually tells you on the front of the bag how much of the protein comes from meat and how much comes from other sources(there is at least one other brand of dog food that tells you this but I don’t remember the brand), it would be nice if every dog food had to do this because then we would have a better idea about which dog foods would be best for yeast sensitive dogs, we have also fed raw to clear this up as well but if your going to feed raw I highly suggest you research that thoroughly, as we have had a blockage caused by feeding to much weight bearing bone at once, and I believe you are supposed to freeze the meat for days before thawing and feeding there are also many other things to know before feeding raw, and a whole chapter could be written on the pros, cons and different aspects of to raw or not to raw.
disclaimer…I am not a vet, this is only from experience with our own dogs here at badlands kennels, so I am sure we only know a little about dog health, but we love all dogs so if this info can help to make any of your furry family members happy and more comfortable then job well done.

[anonymous]

Hope this helps. If she is going to be over 40-50 pounds I would consider her a large breed.

Nutrition in Large Breed Puppies

How about: https://www.gofromm.com/classic-puppy-dog-food

[TrevorPup]

Hello!

I just adopted a puppy, she is supposed to be boxer/lab, others say she looks pit. She’s 12 weeks, and the pound was feeding her Puppy Chow. I’m not sure how to decide what her “adult weight” will be, so I’m not sure how much to feed her, and I’m not sure if I should use large breed food or not. Is there any harm in feeding large breed to a dog that may end up being smaller?

[haleycookie]

Large breed puppies (yours are more along the lines of giant breed so more along 2-2.5 years) don’t stop growing til about 1.5-2 years. It’s also wise to not neuter or fix them until that age as well so their growth plates can close properly. The cut off of hormones can cause bone and joint issues early on.

• This reply was modified 6 years, 9 months ago by haleycookie.
• This reply was modified 6 years, 9 months ago by haleycookie.

[anonymous]

Nutrition in Large Breed Puppies

[kathie c]

Thanks for the advice. You kept talking about large breed puppy food. I was getting away from the puppy food because they are now 13 months old. How long do large breeds eat puppy food. I know they take longer to grow, but I just assumed since they are about 80-85% there, their growth has slowed and didn’t need the extra protein any more. Was I wrong? Thanks.

[haleycookie]

Giant breed puppies have no protein requirements. Dogs are mostly carnivorous. Find a good high meat large breed puppy food and don’t worry about anything else. There is no conclusive info on the legume/dcm issue. If you stick with a high meat diet you shouldn’t have to worry about anything. A good food to look into is wellness core large breed puppy, and large breed puppy nature’s variety instinct raw boost. Those are two good options. There are others out there. Take a look at chewy and use the terms large breed puppy. Look for foods that have 3+ more proteins in the top 5 ingredients. And if you want to be extra safe you can e-mail the company and ask where their protein levels are coming from (plant or meat) you can also ask if the calcium ratios are correct for large breed puppies. Some puppy foods are safe but aren’t labeled for large breeds. While some that say all breeds and life stages may not be safe for large breed puppies. So it’s helpful to emails the companies.
It also sounds like you’re using toppers which is a good thing. Trying bone broths and freeze dried raw mixers too. They are both great for natural sources of taurine. I would cut out the processed meats tho. Whatever you use for toppers should be plain, no seasoning, no garlic or onion.

• This reply was modified 6 years, 9 months ago by haleycookie.

[Patricia A]

We have a almost 17 year old Chihuahua who was just diagnosed with enlarged heart. However vet explained that in small breeds it is very common to have Mitral Valve disease which she has. Symptoms with most only show up in later years. Her X-rays show the enlarge heart. My vet said there not all dogs diagnosed with DCM are caused by diet.
What is Myxomatous or Degenerative Mitral Valve Disease?
Canine myxomatous or degenerative mitral valve disease (MMVD) primarily affects older, small to medium size dogs, although any dog can be affected. Degenerative changes thicken the valve, causing it to leak. When the disease and leakage progress, the heart enlarges. Predisposed breeds include Cavalier King Charles Spaniels and Dachshunds and other breeds – although the genetics are being investigated, the disease is very common in small breed dogs as they age. Though many dogs are affected in their later years, only about 25-50% of those with MMVD experience clinical signs of congestive heart failure (CHF, or uid build-up within the lungs).

[Patricia A]

Kathy very sorry about the lose of your Doxi. We were grateful to be OWNED by our Doxie Pookie many years ago. Actually hubby and I decided to watch some old family VHS videos and there was Pookie in every video with the kids. Our family was lucky to have him with us for 16 years. Was very hard to let him go but now these memories of our first dog as a family are the best.
We have a almost 17 year old Chihuahua who was just diagnosed with enlarged heart. However vet explained that in small breeds it is very common to have Mitral Valve disease which she has. Symptoms with most only show up in later years. Her X-rays show the enlarge heart. No lung edema which is great. Doxies are also prone to mitral valve disease. Maybe it wasn’t the dog food but just genetics.
What is Myxomatous or Degenerative Mitral Valve Disease?
Canine myxomatous or degenerative mitral valve disease (MMVD) primarily affects older, small to medium size dogs, although any dog can be affected. Degenerative changes thicken the valve, causing it to leak. When the disease and leakage progress, the heart enlarges. Predisposed breeds include Cavalier King Charles Spaniels and Dachshunds and other breeds – although the genetics are being investigated, the disease is very common in small breed dogs as they age. Though many dogs are affected in their later years, only about 25-50% of those with MMVD experience clinical signs of congestive heart failure (CHF, or uid build-up within the lungs).
I think I’ll share this also in main forum to let others know DCM can also be caused by other things then diet.

• This reply was modified 6 years, 9 months ago by Patricia A.

[Sabrina H]

His stool is fine on the foods I can find that have 5-6% fiber. It’s kept anal gland issues away for a few years now. Including large breed food would give us more options.

Vet opinions vary. One vet insisted he come in every 2 weeks for the rest of his life to have his glands expressed even though higher fiber in his food fixed the problem. Other vets in the same office acknowledged that higher fiber fixed the problem and didn’t think he should come in unless he’s scooting, chewing, or smells fishy. The vets in the area we live in now think anything that’s not Science Diet or Royal Canin is horrible and toxic, so their solution to just about everything is to put the pet on Science Diet. They don’t even like to discuss options that don’t involve Science Diet.

[anonymous]

Quote “Is there any harm in feeding a 40 lb dog large breed food?”

I’m not sure. You could end up with loose stools when you increase the amount of fiber. What does the vet recommend?

From a previous post of mine per:
Excerpts (out of context) from article below: https://www.vetsecure.com/veterinarymedicalclinic.com/articles/136
Overview:
“Anal sacs are the reservoirs for the secretions of anal glands which are located on either side of a dog’s anus, at approximately four and eight o’clock. These sacs contain liquid secretions from the anal gland, which, in healthy animals, are normally pale yellow-brown to grayish in color. The contents are usually emptied during normal bowel movements, or when a dog is nervous or scared. In most animals, these sacs empty easily. However, some dogs, especially small breed dogs, are not able to empty the sacs properly and become susceptible to anal sac disease”.
Transmission or Cause:
“The cause of anal sac disease is unknown. Smaller dog breeds, such as Chihuahuas and poodles, are most often affected. Excessive anal gland production, soft feces or diarrhea, poor muscle tone, and obesity also contribute to higher risk of developing anal sac disease. Anal sac abscess tends to occur after an impacted anal gland has become so severely swollen and infected that the anal sac forms an abscess and ruptures”.
Prevention:
“Expression of the anal sacs every few weeks or months often will help prevent anal gland fluid from accumulating and becoming thickened again. High fiber diets have been shown to help prevent anal sac disease in at-risk dogs, especially those that are obese”.

[Sabrina H]

My dog needs around 5% fiber or he has anal gland problems. I noticed the large breed formula of many brands has more fiber than the regular formula. Is there any harm in feeding a 40 lb dog large breed food?

[Ashlee B]

If you want to gain weight for your dog, First of all you should give the best dog food. There are so much dog food in the world, But here I’d like to say some best dog name. Hopefully this will be the greatest and helpful food for your dog.

01. Royal Canin Puppy Dry Dog Food.
02. Nutro Wholesome Essentials Puppy Dry Dog Food.
03. Hill’s Science Diet Large Breed Dry Dog Food
04. chicken
05. Meat

[Sanne]

I often stay with puppy food for my small ones. Mine tend to be VERY active as puppies and need quite a bit of calories for their body size. Small breeds need more calories per kg of weight than large dogs too. I have found it is easier to find higher calorie puppy food than adult food. Often if the food is not high enough in kcals, little dogs won’t eat enough because the portions are too large. Just depends on how your pup eats though and her calorie needs.

If you want to switch her food I would wait at least a few more weeks. You should not change a puppies food right when you get them. Switching houses is stressful and switching the food they are used to can just add to the stress. Platinum, Ziwipeak, and Carnilove are the only ones on your list that I am really familiar with. All of which are decent foods. Best food is the one your dog is willing to eat though and has good stool, coat and energy on.