[InkedMarie]

Tina, for your Golden & Corgi, getting weight off them is of the utmost importance, for their joints. I used Wellness Core Reduced fat with great success. While I have not used it, others have had luck with Annamaet Lean (this may need to be ordered as it’s not as widely available). Both can benefit from salmon oil added to their diet. You can use human form or buy those available online or at pet stores for dogs (I use human). Are they getting a supplement for their joints?

For the cocker & mixed breed, I’ve read that people use Nutri Source with good luck for dogs with sensitive stomachs.

I know nothing about colitis but hopefully someone else can answer. Its possible the foods I listed won’t work. If I was you, with dogs with issues, I’d consult a holistic vet who would be able to advise you on dogs with their issues and probably offer a non vet food. You could go to DogAware.com and contact Mary Strauss from there or Lew Olsen at b-Naturals.com.

Both of them could give you some advice. Good luck!

[Sharon Buchanan]

MastiffLove ~

First, I hope more people will chime in here with helpful advice. Now, to get to your questions as best I can.

It looks like your family is adding a lot of new members to the family. How great for all of them to be able to grow up and play together – and be fed raw. Looks like you’ll have your own little support group!

1. From all my reading on forums and Facebook, finding green tripe can be tricky. Some places ban the sale of it directly to consumers while others seem to be able to get it locally. I’m currently getting mine from MyPetCarnivore.com. I’m hoping that when I find someone who will sell direct, that they’ll also be able to provide the tripe. You’ll just have to ask and if they can’t, perhaps they’ll know where to get it.

2. Sure, you can grind necks. They aren’t terribly meaty, but they’ll grind easily enough. You should be able to start giving them whole when your pup gets a bit older. Chicken necks are tiny and I give them whole to my seven month old cat. I’ve been giving whole duck and turkey necks to Mystery since I started raw, he was 10 months at the time – he’s getting a turkey neck as part of his dinner tonight.

Different nutritionists/homeopathic vets will have various opinions on what, when, how and why to feed certain ingredients. I tend to lean toward Kymythy’s advice at the moment. She raises Newfies and feeds them raw as early as four weeks. The proof is in the health of her pups and adults.

3. I’m still not feeding veggies or “super” greens. Not a “purist” or anything but I wanted to first be sure I was feeding correctly the balance of meat/bone/organs and then get a blood panel or hair sample analysis – I’ll be scheduling that next week. Mystery’s only issues are a skin flaking problem – solved with coconut oil, and motion sickness – I’m still working on that and hoping he’ll grow out of it. So, until I get an analysis that says he needs more of this or that, I’m holding off on supplementing. I do give Mystery garlic for natural pest control and I also supplement with curcumen and vitamin C because Goldens have a high cancer mortality rate. I know a lot of people use “super” this and that as well as create their own veggie mashes. I would lean toward making my own purees since I believe nutrition from the source is best.

4. Most fruits have a lot of sugar in them. I would avoid most or feed them judiciously. I’ll share a banana with Mystery from time to time as well as give him apple slices, but not as a regular part of his diet. Here’s a basic chart that lists not only veggies and fruits that are toxic to pets but also plants as well as symptoms to watch for: http://www.acreaturecomfort.com/toxic.htm. And of course, you’ll find other sites that list fewer or additional foods.

5. Ah, SWEET potatoes. I haven’t read anything that shows a good reason to add most starches. That includes potatoes, peas, some beans. Many of these veggies convert starches to sugar when cooked. I used to give a tablespoon of pumpkin when our Sunset would have loose stools, but Mystery has had no problems there – and especially not since going raw.

6. I must defer to Kymythy on adding anything at all to an eight week old puppy’s diet. If you’re balancing 80/10/10 your calcium/phosphorus ratio is in perfect sync. Adding anything may not only increase the amount of calcium but may throw off that balance. Mess with that ratio and excess calcium can be deposited on the outside of the bones causing a number of issues. We had no idea that there was an issue with LBPs and calcium when we got Sunset 11 years ago. Before she was two, she required double-hip surgery. We got her from a backyard breeder (another ignorant move on our part), didn’t know much about hip scores and fed her what surely is on the one- or two-star lists here at DFA. I’ve been ultra focused on calcium since before I got Mystery.

An excerpt from Kymythy’s book, Natural Nutrition for Dogs and Cats:
By the time the young are ready to go to their new homes, they should be eating whole necks and regular meals with all the extras, and you may discontinue the enzymes and probiotics (although they may help counteract the digestive stress a youngster endures when going to a new home). Youngsters may be fed three times per day from eight weeks until four to six months old, then twice daily from four to six months old until one year of age, and once daily after one year of age. Giant breeds of dogs may need to be fed twice daily occasionally during growth spurts from one to three years of age. Either feed two complete meals or one complete and one of meaty bones (bones with ample meat) only. Observe your pet and adjust amounts accordingly. Do not feed so much that the stomach becomes overly extended. Do not let your pet become obese. A very thin layer of fat over the ribs is healthy, but too much weight puts extra stress on growing bones, joints, and hearts. A healthy wild animal is a lean animal. If your pet needs to lose weight, reduce its food intake. If it needs to gain weight, increase its food. Keep in mind that growing youngsters will eat more per pound of body weight than adult animals.

Schultze, Kymythy (1999-10-01). Natural Nutrition for Dogs and Cats (p. 67). Hay House. Kindle Edition.

Note the information on probiotics and enzymes is directed toward breeders who feed and wean pups to raw. If your puppy has been weaned to kibble, you might want to add some kefir to his diet for a time.

7. See #6, but I will take a look at the three products you mentioned for future use. I am not trying to discourage the use of any supplementation, just use caution and be sure you’re feeding only what is essential and beneficial.

8. I’m assuming you’re referring to the products in question 6 and maybe 7, not 8. LOL! I couldn’t find a guaranteed analysis of the Urban Wolf Balancer so I would be very wary of adding it. They do provide a recipe that uses their products with an analysis and it looks good. If you feel a strong need to supplement… Questions regarding their recipe ingredients might include, where do they get their fish oil from; is it guaranteed not to contain any toxins; if you use “canned” fish, do the cans contain BPA; if natural ingredients are better, why so many dried/powdered ingredients in their mixes? This is the hard part for me – giving my money to companies that sell premixes and toppers when I can just hit the market for fresh ingredients.

9. When you’re deciding on recipes, remember that your eight week old puppy is capable of handling chunks of raw meats, organs and bones. Even if he’s been weaned onto kibble before you get him, there should be no need to transition him as he hasn’t developed an addiction to the sugars and starches yet. I’d been feeding my kitten a kibble diet for about five months when I decided to transition the cats. Since he’d been stealing raw food from the dog, I went straight to raw with him and he jumped all over it, including chicken necks and other appropriately sized bones. I feed grinds only when the weather’s so bad that I can’t even put Mystery on the screened deck, usually when it’s too cold. The cats get fed in the tiled bathroom since they don’t feel the need to drag food all over the place – yet!

Any time you freeze or cook food, you’re going to lose a bit of nutritional value. Most of us have large freezers because we buy in bulk so frozen it is. Be sure you thaw foods and try to bring them to room temp before feeding. As Alpha in my house, I pull food from the refrigerator and let it sit on the counter until I’ve finished my coffee – then they get to eat. I know some people feed frozen foods but I wouldn’t do that to a puppy. Ever get brain freeze from drinking a shake too fast? Imagine a puppy’s digestive system trying to warm up frozen meat. There may be other opinions out there on this, but I would definitely feed three times a day for the first six months and then move to twice a day until he’s at least a year old. You should be feeding him 10% of his current weight until that exceeds 2-3% of his target weight.

I love Mercola. There is a chart floating around that shows who is fighting GMO labeling and who is supporting it in WA. I use it when I go shopping and yes, some of the products I’ve purchased in the past come from companies fighting WA. Let me know if you can’t find it. I get that having to label a product 50 different ways could put a hardship on business so I would support a federal label that is nothing less than FULL disclosure. That said, I don’t trust the FDA or any other governmental agency to have my best interest at heart. I’m a big fan of personal responsibility. The government assumes I’m ignorant…, I believe it’s a choice. (Whoops, gone political.)

I’m glad you were able to find a farm so quickly to meet your raw needs. Don’t forget to pick up chicken feet, green tripe, testicles, heart, kidneys… Go for goat and rabbit as well as chicken, turkey and beef. Something that I would have gotten wrong is differentiating between what are considered organs and what is not.

Organs: Liver (5% of the diet), kidneys, spleen, brain, thymus gland, panaceas and testicles (the other 5%)

Not organs: Heart, Gizzard, Tongue, lung, trachea, green tripe (all considered as part of the 80%).

Another site for learning more about feeding raw is here: https://www.mypetcarnivore.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=78&Itemid=116. It’s a culling of articles from a variety of sources.

I better turn my attention to the vacuum and washer now or I’m going to be overrun by tumblefurs. I look forward to seeing you on Facebook soon.

[theBCnut]

That really isn’t high for glucosamine and even if it were it would be fine. The only problem would be that later on if you need a joint supplement, glucosamine might not be as effective.

[InkedMarie]

I’m a little confused by your question, sorry if I’m missing something. I was under the impression that by the time dog food is cooked, whatever glucosamine was there is all but gone. Buy a joint supplement if you need it.

Why do you need a senior food?

[hamptonmeadow]

I would be more concerned with diabetes. Tke her to the vet and have her tested. It is controllable and you need some advice. Buy good but not high carb dog foods. Not science diet or any of those vet sold ones.

Joint supplements are being highly debated. I don’t know which ones work and many of them don’t. I think you may be seeing a change in food rasing her blood sugar. Good luck and let us know what it turns out to be.

[Nyanko-sensei]

I have an 11 year old Terrier mix with arthritis in one of her front legs. She’s about 23 lbs. She’s been eating Earthborn Primitive Natural for about a month and a half and I ‘ve noticed she’s drinking loads of water since. She’ll drink water for a minute straight, several times a day. This is a dog who would barely touch her water before. I’m glad she’s drinking more, but I’m worried about her. She doesn’t have any kidney problems but will drinking so much overwork them and cause kidney problems later on?

I know it’s because the food is high-protein. It’s time to buy more, so I was wondering if I should switch to a lower protein food from the same company. I was thinking Meadow Feast or Coastal Catch from Earthborn.

How important is protein for a dog with arthritis? Should I stay with Primitive Natural or go with lower protein? She’s also taking Nupro as a joint supplement. I haven’t seen much improvement from the Nupro but it’s only been a few weeks.

[Dori]

Hi Lea J. I feel like this is my mantra but I will say it again. I have a 4 1/2 year old Maltipoo, Katie, has had severe food allergies and intolerances as well as environmental allergies since we got her at 9 weeks of age. I’ve tried any and all suggestions out there. Went through a ton of food, most of which to no avail. What finally worked for her is commercial raw foods. I like Primal Pronto the best. I also rotate her foods with Darwins, and Answers raw. I’ve tried Stella and Chewy’s raw and Nature’s Variety Instinct Raw which I didn’t like at all. Anyway, I have three small dogs that I feed 1/4 cup twice a day. I do add and/or feed sardines (canned in water, not oil), coconut oil, probiodics, digestive enzymes, fresh fruits and veggies. Their treats consist of fresh fruits or veggies. I don’t use store bought treats. To many issues with Katies allergies. My 14 1/2 year old Maltese has arthritis in her right hip and also two degenerated discs mid spine. I rotate supplements as well as their foods. I haven’t found any particular joint supplement that has worked miracles. I have just ordered Sprintime’s Joint Health and Fresh Factor. Some people have been reporting that they are having good luck with these. Anyway, I think I’ve digressed here from my mantra which is: Grain, Soy, Poultry (in all forms), White Potato and Rice Free food as well as anything else you think your dog may be allergic or intolerant to. Your allergy list really doesn’t seem to be that bad though I wouldn’t doubt that she has more problems than just the ones you named. Full disclosure, I don’t believe that food allergy testing for dogs can be trusted. My dogs allergist/dermatologist as well as their traditional vets all would not do the testing. They said the tests are inaccurate, misleading and cost a lot of money. When vets tell you they won’t take your money, you know they are being accurate. To this date there are no known food allergy testing on animals that are accurate. As far as kibble goes, I can’t really recommend any because I’m not comfortable in my knowledge of their ingredients anymore. I figured out most of Katie’s food allergies by her reactions to the foods I was feeding and then comparing ingredients with other foods trying to figure out what was bothering her. She has many many issues. She just recently became allergic or intolerant to alfalfa. Allergic or intolerant to me is all the same. All I’m sure of is that either way, she can’t eat it so I don’t care whether some people say that it’s not really an allergy, it’s an intolerance. It’s all trial and error really and constantly researching ingredients. What works for my dogs may not work for others but eliminating the obvious typical allergens is a good place to start. It’s an incredibly long road in helping our allergy prone dogs but the work is well worth it for them. Exhausting on us. Oh, Spring is finally here in Atlanta where we live so for the last two days I’ve been giving her Benadryl twice a day. I hate having to do that but there is nothing I can personally do about environmental outdoor allergies. Trust me, if there was a way I would have found it by now. This is the first time I have ever had a dog with allergies and I’ll just say it keeps me on me on my toes with all things food related for her. Katie’s how I came across this site a couple of years ago and I, she and my other dogs have benefited immensely. Good Luck. If you need any clarification on anything I’ve said or any more questions please ask.

[Pugsonraw]

Hi Dchassett,

I took both my pugs off several supplements right now (not just Springtime)… I have food & allergy tests run about every 6 months and this time around something I’m giving them triggered for NutraSweet in it as well as some of the normal food allergies I usually see. I’m not sure what it is so I’ve completely scaled back to rotating in a few of these things:
organic coconut oil, mercola krill oil, mercola enzymes and probiotics, braggs apple cider vinegar, and a hypoallergenic phycox joint supplement. I’ve used these over the year… and these have not triggered anything for the pugs. Not sure where the NutraSweet came from but I don’t want it in their diet.

Just when I think I’m wining the battle with their allergies or food choices, something changes…. and Spring is here in CA! My pugs are so different and it is hit and miss with products I try… what works for one, makes the other super itchy…

I have been looking at the Bug Off garlic though… even ordered the granules but they have not arrived yet. I was just at the vets yesterday and they were trying to suggest accuguard which is an oral pill.

Not sure if this helps but I find sometimes you just need to test it out, cross your fingers and see how it goes…

Dawn aka Pugsonraw…

[theBCnut]

Dori
I found my chiropractor through my horse connections. There are many more people with horses that have chiropractic done than with dogs in my area. Yes, it could definitely help, but I would look for an acupuncturist first. And cold laser therapy is also excellent. The local vet. college may have a rehab vet or may be able to refer you to one. What I would recommend for joint care is to get a single bottle of a few different things and try them. Different supplements work differently for individual dogs. My favorites have glucosamine, MSM, and HA, but that’s because that’s what mine responds best to.

Harper’s Mom
You probably want to give 1/2 tsp per day, BUT you need to work up to that amount. Start with just a small pinch for a couple days.

[Dori]

Hi Pugsonraw. How did the Advanced Hip and Joint Springtime supplement work out? Have you seen any improvement? I’m thinking of using this on Hannah. She’ll be 15 years old on 9/9/14. I rotate her supplements as well as her foods so I’m always on the look out for supplements that some may be having some luck with. She’s got arthritis, a couple of degenerated discs center spine, but lately I’ve noticed that the swing in her gait seems to be coming more from her hips than her legs. She’s also developing a tremor in both back legs. She had it a while back but it would only be one back leg or the other. Now it’s both back legs trembling when she’s standing still. Thanks, Dori

[theBCnut]

Hi Jewel

I try to give joint supplements that only have a few active ingredients to early or mild cases because the body eventually gets used to the ingredients and they stop working, so you need to be able to move on to something else. For more advanced or severe cases, I pull out the big guns, and this would be a big gun.

That being said, I would not feed the chews unless I couldn’t get my dog to eat this any other way. There were a few ingredients that I don’t want to give my dogs, like artificial colors and artificial flavors and a couple others. The powder still has artificial flavors, but I can live with that since they dropped the other more objectionable ingredients.

[MarieLovesChis]

I too need a new joint supplement and was thinking of going with Springtime advanced joint chews.

Mom2Cavs: How much do you think an 8 pound dog with luxating patellas would need of the advanced formula? Should just one chewable a day be enough? Sorry, not trying to hijack the thread.

[pugmomsandy]

These are are the supplements I have on hand but don’t necessarily give every day: Springtime Bug Off, Longevity and Joint Chews, Mercola Bladder Support, Wysong Biotic pH, krill oil, calamari oil, vit E and C, ubiquinol, cetyl-M, DE.

[Shasta220]

I love apple cider vinegar, coconut oil, raw eggs, and I always keep a good joint supplement around for my old girl.

I’m curious – most glucosamine/chondroitin is sourced from shellfish, correct? Would crayfish count as well? Whenever we go camping, we catch loads of the lil buggers. Would it be safe to give the cooked shells to a dog (consistency is a lot like an eggshell), or would they need to be ground…or should they just be avoided altogether?

[Mom2Cavs]

I had a Shih-Poo (at the bridge now) who had both rear luxating patellas. We kept him from having surgery by giving him Springtime, Inc. Joint Health chews. He would get one in the morning and evening. He didn’t do well with Dasaquin at all. But, all dogs are different. I did limit his exercise somewhat, as well, but would have done that with any supplement given. He passed away before they came out with their new advanced chews. I keep both on hand.

[Shasta220]

I don’t know much about the vast amounts of joint supplements out there, but I enjoy Actiflex 4000 (meant for horses, but can easily be used for dogs). It’s probably not the best out there, but it’s super affordable. My 70lb senior lab gets about a tsp daily, which we figured that to be around 5$/month (compared to 30$/month of her other stuff.)

I’d definitely go with dchassett’s suggestions though sounds like she’s been around the block a few times when it comes to joint care.

Best wishes!

[Naturella]

I never used Greenies per se, but I have used the Nylabone green puppy chew things. Bruno liked them, but we are not getting any more. Ever. I am happy he never had a problem, but I would much rather give RMBs, brush his teeth, and give antlers, hooves, and bully sticks/ears/tracheae/natural and digestible stuff for dental health.

My friend, however, used to use Greenies every day with no problems. She also used bully sticks, but she wanted a long-lasting chew, and eventually they failed, so she stopped getting them. She is now on DentaStiX for her 2 dogs, but thankfully she is stopping soon. Her next trial will be water additive for fresher breath and with a joint supplement. Hopefully that works better. She will be using Tropiclean. Any thoughts on that?

[jewel0247]

I’m wanting to start a joint supplement on my 13 year old dog and can’t decide on which (even with all the awesome information on these forums)! She shows mild mobility issues, but gets around well for the most part…
I’ve come down to:
Mercola (the chewables)
K9 Naturals Joint strong (the powder)
Springtime Joint formula

I’m liking the K9, but there is chicken flavoring or cartilage in the formula… and with her chicken intolerance, I don’t know if she would have a bad reaction?

Thanks!

[Shasta220]

I’m sure you guys remember my good ol’ lab, Cassy. Well, I’m starting her on acv and just ordered some liquid Actiflex (it’ll cut her joint supplement cost from 20-40$/month to just 5-10$/month. Boo yah!). The dogs get fed outside of the house, and I don’t really want to hassle with measuring out the liquids every single day, so I thought of this:
Freeze the supplements w some canned food, then just give her a cube a day on the food.

I’m wondering if there’s a chance for any of the nutrients to “freeze off” by doing so? (They would prob stay in the freezer for up to 2wks, since an ice cube tray will hold about 12-14 cubes)

Also, what’s a super affordable and still 4-5 star canned food that I can pop in there? My thoughts were maybe Natural Balance, or something from Diamond? I figured it wouldn’t matter too much since she’d just be getting 1-2tbsp daily, and she’s a good 70lb.

[Mom2Cavs]

Hey, all….I just started the Springtime, Inc. supplements for people. I’m using the Joint Health capsules, the Tonic Blend and the Boswellia Extract tabs. I’ve been using for about a week now, instead of the nsaids I normally use for my back and sciatica. I believe it’s helping, so yay! Of course, it could all be the placebo thing, too, lol. Regardless, I’m going to keep using them and see how it goes.

[Shasta220]

I know pumpkin is a great addition for a dog lacking fiber, but is there a general rule of thumb for how much to add per pound (or 10-20lb, etc) of dog.

Also, I’m very curious about apple cider vinegar. On a FB page, there are several bull-breed owners who add acv, claiming it’s helpful for joints. I’d like to add some to my dogs’ diets, since it’s very cheap (even for raw/organic), and anything to further help my old girl is great.
Is there anyone on here who gives their dog acv? If so, what are all the health benefits?

[Naturella]

Shasta,

This is amazing that your lab has had such a turnaround! It is so amazing to see and hear success stories of better food, so I am always ecstatic to see my friend who switched to good food.

As for my other friend, I took her to my favorite store today, and they hooked her up with over 15 samples of 4-and-5-star foods for her old rottie who has been on Beneful and Pedigree so far… She was happy, I was beyond excited, and I can’t wait too see which one he likes/does on best, and which one she gets. I think she should incorporate a joint supplement in whatever she feeds anyway. But I think we’re on a good track there! Hoping for a smooth transition and great results. Also, I did recommend to her to start with may a 3- or 3.5-star food first, and then go to a 4- or 5-star one.

Shasta, I would have never guessed you are a teenager! You rock! 🙂

And also, I agree with both Shasta and aquariangt – although some people feed Beneful and the sort because of price, it is true that good foods can be found for much less online or at clearance/sales racks in pet stores/boutiques. But I can understand how uninformed people can suffer from commercials and misinformation, and I also believe that once they are open to at least checking this website out, they will also get hooked. Like with Shasta, that’s what happened to me. I just stumbled upon it googling something, and bam. That was it for me. I just wish people weren’t so headstrong about what they choose to feed and at least entertain the idea of learning something from someone else… My roommate, however, said to me, after I had had Bruno for about 2 months – “You have had a dog for how long, 2 months now? What do YOU know about dogs. I GREW UP around dogs and have had my own for over 3 years now.” Then it was clear to me that he just wouldn’t ever take anything I tell him, and, sadly, even his vet recommends this site, and other foods (NOT the SD), but he would still not listen, or research so meh… It is what it is.

And another dog that I take pride in being put on good food is my own. When Bruno was first found, he had the worst case of fleas the vet had ever seen. His fur was falling out, and he had patches of sores and wounds all over. The couple that found him (the second ones; the initial “founders” did not even give him food or water for 2 days before the other couple visited them and took the puppy from them) did a great job de-fleeing him, having him dewormed, given food and water, and a good safe space to live for a while until found a forever home (that would be us!). They had him on Purina-Something and he looked fine (I wasn’t able to tell he had fur missing before), and only had 2 scabs left from when he had sores. It wasn’t until we got him on Blue Buffalo Wilderness that his fur got really shiny (that’s when I realized it had been dull before!), and he started growing fur on his tummy (I thought it was supposed to be bare, not that it was actually missing fur!). So good food helped my little guy too, and like others, at first I did listen to the pet store associates and even my roommate (the Science Diet guy), but even then, I preferred grain free and higher protein food, I guess by instinct. So once I found this site, I have never looked at dog food again, let alone any grocery store’s pet aisle, lol.

[enny]

Here are the latest results from Consumerlab’s tests for Chondroitin, Glucosamine and MSM for dogs and cats. 1800Petsmeds joint enhancer for small dogs and cats: only 70.5% of listed glucosamine hcl.
Joint Complete for Dogs and Cats (Liquid Solutions): 76% of glucosamine sulfate listed.
Joint Max Triple Strength Soft Chews: 135% of listed MSM.
Liquid Health Naturals K9 Glucosamine: only 16% of listed Chondroitin Sulfate.
Cosequin DS Plus MSM (Nutramax Lab): Approved
Cosequin Joint Health Supplement for Cats: Approved
Hope this helps users of these supplements.

[pugmomsandy]

Do don’t have to supplement every meal since the canned food is complete. Try NL and the joint supp for one meal, prob/enz in the second meal. Fish oil two or three times a week, especially if you’re using a human dose, he’ll get more than enough.

[Mom2Cavs]

What you are giving him sounds like a good plan. The Nature’s Logic fortifier is a whole food supplement and I believe should not be “too much”. I really don’t know if you mean you might overdose him on something or if it’s too rich. But, either way, it should be a healthy supplement to add if he tolerates it. All the rest are fine, too. The doses for all these supplements for such a small dog should be small, as well. If you are worried about changing the taste of his food and him not eating, then you could use something else to help deliver the supplement, like yogurt, cottage cheese, etc…. to put some of the supplements in and give as a treat. As for the joint supplement, you could always get one that is packaged like a treat and give it that way, so it doesn’t have to be mixed into his food. The coconut oil would probably be licked right off your finger as a treat, and if the fish oil is a gel cap you could wrap it in something, like cheese, or use cream cheese and cover it and give as a treat, as well. The probiotics and enzymes shouldn’t change the taste of the food. And as far as him being healthier without all the supplementation….sometimes supplements can cause issues, like allergic ones, or loose stool, etc., so it is a choice you have to make, whether or not to give, and if you do want to give supplements to try to find those that the dog can accept either in his food or as a treat. I should know all this because I have smaller dogs who don’t eat that much food and I do like to give supplements. Lucy, my Mixed Breed, has a rare type of skin cancer (I believe she’s in remission, atm, yay!) and she takes a liquid maitake mushroom supplement in her canned/dry food every morning. I was very worried she might not take it in her food and I’d have to get creative, but she has with no problems…very good, lol. I also give Standard Process supplements, which are powders, and sometimes they will give a little loose stool, so I back off a little. If I feel I’m overloading them with supplements I tend to break it all up between morning and evening or give as a treat during the day. Sometimes I don’t give a supplement every day, but every other. I also evaluate their supplements at times to determine if I still need to give something or if I can stop for awhile. I also like to rotate supplements, too. I will give Wholistic Pet for awhile and them I’ll switch and give Nature’s Farmacy stuff, or Springtime, Inc. I’ve used cream cheese to give pill type supplements to Lucy because she’s picky. The Cavaliers tend to just eat anything I give them lol. These methods have worked with my dogs and I hope some of the suggestion help.

• This reply was modified 12 years, 1 month ago by Mom2Cavs.

[weezerweeks]

I have my little yorkie on canned food. He only gets 1/3cup a day divided by 2 so each meal is not very much. I want to give him the correct supplements but it’s hard because it changes the taste of his food. I give him natures logic fortifier, mercola’s digestive enzyme and probiotic, coconut oil once a week, Nordic natural fish oil every day.I’m also starting him on joint supplement because of his luxating petalla.since he’s only on canned food how would you supplement him each day. The natures logic has so many things in it I’m afraid it’s too much.should I give it every day along with the enzyme and probiotic and what other super food should I use instead of this or to rotate. I am trying so hard but I’m getting so confused because their are soo many supplements. Sometimes it seems he was healthier just eating kibble with no supplements except fish oil.

[weezerweeks]

Patty this is the joint supplement I was asking u about and yes they make it for horses.

[Mom2Cavs]

I use quite a few and rotate off and on, too. Currently, all 3 dogs are getting Nature’s Farmacy Digestive Enhancer morning and evening in their food. It’s a prob/enzyme supplement. I am also giving Standard Process Whole Body Support (a whole food vitamin/mineral) morning and evening. Lucy gets a liquid Maitake Mushroom supplement from Vetri Science in the morning. I believe this addition has put her cancer into remission! Twice a week the girls all get an Omega supplement. Currently, I’m using Vetri Science’s 3/6/9. I occasionally give coconut oil, as well. For the Cavaliers I will be adding in Standard Process Cardio Support 3 times a week. Also, every Monday they all get a urinary chew that has cranberry and vit. c. Whew…I think that’s it lol.

I also love Springtime, Inc. supplements and use Fresh Factors, Joint Health Chews, Bug Off Garlic Chews and rotate them off an on with the other ones I mentioned above.
Some of the other probiotics or enzymes I like and use are Wholistic Pet Digest All Plus and Fresh Digest. I also like Wholistic Pet Salmon Oil, Springtime 3/6/9 and Nordic Naturals for omegas.

[weezerweeks]

My vet and I are trying to decide on the joint supplement for my yorkie,he’s been having a little trouble with his luxating petalla even though it’s only a 1. I showed him the mercola joint supplement that I have and he’s concerned about the Bromelain because it has been know to cause trouble with the digestive lining. Have any of u ever heard of this? I have a super smart and animal loving vet,his 7 dogs go to work with him everyday,2 golden doodles,1 lab,3carin terriers, and one westie.you should see him driving down the highway it is quite funny!

[pugmomsandy]

Fairly regularly I use Springtime Inc. Longevity, Fresh Factors, Bug Off Garlic (or Flea Free Supplement liquid), and I got some free bottles of their Advanced Hip and Joint and Joint Health Chewables at checkout. springtimeinc.com

And a couple times a week, I give Mercola krill oil and ubiquinol, Swanson’s Dr. Langer’s probiotics or Mercola probiotics, Mercola digestive enzymes, Immunel (swanson), and a glandular product (currently Pet G.O.) http://mypetsfriend.com/pet-go.html and ProDen Plaque Off, vit E and C, and Mercola Bladder Support.

When I make dehydrated foods, I like to add in some raw apple cider vinegar.

I’ve just started to add some sprouted seeds to their raw food. 4 Legs of Love from SproutPeople.org. http://sproutpeople.org/just-for-pets/sprouts-for-dogs/

[weezerweeks]

My vet gave me samples of platinum performance complete joint care today. Has anyone used this. It’s in a powder form. I showed him my bottle of mercola joint tablets and he said they looked good but he wanted me to try platinum.my little yorkie had to have injection today and meta am for 4 days. He has luxating patella. Just wondered if anyone had used these.

[InkedMarie]

I use human joint supplement from SwansonVitamins.com. It’s called joint mobility plus. It has all kinds of stuff that is important for joints. Salmon oil is also good. I assume you’re feeding grainfree; am I correct?

[aquariangt]

thanks Marie. Any opinion on hip and joint supplements? I’m pretty green in the world of supplementing. I just bought some Fish Oil, and am getting some Probiotics, but don’t know much about the hip and joint ones

[aquariangt]

Just curious as to some opinions on dry foods with close to 40% protein analysis. The sheltie is getting fairly active (agility) but the other two are mostly house dogs- not much more than walks, though I have a yard so they can run.

I do like to keep them on the same food, but would the high protein food be unhealthy for the others, or is it not going to cause too much unhealthy weight gain? Also- hip and joint supplements, yay or nay? Vet said she should with her agility stuff, but of course, I rarely pay attention to them re:nutrition

Thanks!

• This topic was modified 12 years, 1 month ago by aquariangt.

[Mom2Cavs]

I would think that any high quality food that agrees with the dog would be good. If you are doing agility you might want to also consider supplementing with glucosamine and chondroitin for joint support. You could look at Acana Regionals, or other foods that are for sporting dogs like Annamaet, Dr. Tim’s. Earthborn has good food, as well as Nutrisource. In fact, if it were me, I’d look at this list of 4 and 5* rated foods, find those that meet my criteria, that I could easily get, and pick a few to try. Good luck to you! I know others will respond soon with their suggestions. 🙂

[Mom2Cavs]

Pugsonraw, I used the Advanced Joint and Hip once for Lucy (pulled muscle at the time) and it worked great. Mine get a Fresh Factor tablet every morning for their vitamin and their 3/6/9 supplement 2 days a week. I’m not using their Joint Health (the regular formula I use more often) right now because I’m using Annamaet’s Endure. I really like Springtime’s stuff. I also have some of their Bug Off Garlic, Bee Pollen and Spirulina on hand.

[Shasta220]

Thank you for the advice. I’m not sure how I’ll phrase it to him, as I really don’t want to come across as basically calling him a bad/uneducated owner for feeding his dogs that, because he’s one of the best dog owners I know!

I will probably end up just sending him the link to this site, and say how surprised I am about how high (or low) quality some foods are….maybe he’d get curious and check his food out.

I’m definitely going to ignore the canned food for now. Honestly, it’d be incredible if he kept them on Alpo canned, but switched them to a 3-4star dry food. I think one of his biggest issues is the fact that he probably doesn’t really want to make time to go to a feed store for better food (Walmart and grocery stores are all we have around here other than the feed stores that sell dogfood – PetCo/Smart/Costco are 50+mi)

Any extra moral support would be great though, because this guy is…well, he’s more like a second grandfather to me than anything, so there’s a high amount of respect to get through.

I’ve already told him about a great deal on joint supplements, I told him the cost on this is about 1/4 what we were paying on regular supplements. He said he’ll probably do it when they start showing signs of joint problems – they’re 7y.o. Now, so it’s really the perfect time to get em started /before/ the signs come. I just told him I’m getting my 6yr boy on it… Trying to avoid saying, in any form, that I know everything about dog health (because I DEFINITELY don’t)

Thanks again guys, I will keep you posted on any updates, that’s for sure!

[RescueDaneMom]

Jazz Lover,

The general consensus is that puppies can start regulating calcium uptake around 8-10 months old. To play is really safe you could wait until 1 year.

Read this for an understanding of what “all life stages” means: /frequently-asked-questions/aafco-nutrient-profiles/

Essentially you can feed an “all life stages” food to a puppy because it is approved for growth and reproduction as well as adult maintenance. A lot of the labels on foods (ie large breed puppy, large breed adult, senior, etc) is just marketing. If pet food companies really knew what they were doing in formulating dog foods, there would be a lot more “large breed puppy” foods on the list. If I were you, I would not get caught up on the label. You don’t have to feed a food specifically for a large breed puppy or large breed adult. You need to make sure it is approved by AAFCO for growth and reproduction (aka puppy food) or all life stages.

I had to google FCP surgery. This was done to correct elbow dysplasia? As far as supplements go, I have heard the same. You don’t want to give supplements until they are done growing. I think you’d be safe starting them at 1 year. Does your vet have an opinion on this? I think you are ok with giving the salmon oil as long as you account for the calories that it adds. How much you feed will depend on the body condition of your dog. It is hard to say how much his metabolism will slow down. I would just watch his form and if he looks like he’s getting chunky, cut back on the food. If he starts to look too skinny, increase his food. Refer to the body condition chart in the Dr. Becker article I posted previously. I keep my dog lean because he is older and has arthritis. It is much easier on the joints.

Bottom line- if I were you I would continue to feed a food on HDM’s list and hold off on additional supplements until 1 year or per your vet’s instructions. I hope that is helpful to you.

[enny]

I am the original poster and as to any update there is none so far. As you can imagine ConsumerLab.com has to test hundreds of products from different manufacturers and pet products are not their priority. They do update but it usually takes quite a long time. One of the products that passed muster was the Glucosamine, Chondroitin, MSM combo from Nutramax Labs for joint relief for horses and canines. Pet Tabs Original Formula Vitamin-Mineral Supplement for dogs dist. by Virbac AH Inc. was the only multi. that passed. That’s about all I know at this time.

[Jazz Lover]

I’m confused about which (age group) food to give our 9mo male black lab… should we continue feeding large breed puppy, or switch to an All Stages or simply and adult dog food now?

Jazz is recovering from surgery for elbow dysplasia w FCP. It sounds like there joints fully develop by age 2, but my vet said an adult food is good at age 6-10 mos.

Additionally, has anyone had good results from any specific supplements for similar concerns and age lab and are further in recovery?

Thank you

[theBCnut]

First of all, did you read the first few pages of this thread? Did you check out the links? The idea that protein causes problems was bad science and ignorance, so don’t worry about that.
Here is Hound Dog Mom’s latest list of foods that have the appropriate amount of calcium for large breed dogs.
https://docs.google.com/viewer?srcid=0BwApI_dhlbnFTXhUdi1KazFzSUk&pid=explorer&efh=false&a=v
You have to sign up to view it, but it’s very worthwhile. Take the list with you to the pet boutiques around where you live and see what is available. DO NOT marry any one food, rotate foods. Do a search on the review side on diet rotation to learn more.

Keep your puppy thin, not just not fat, but thin. Less weight is less stress on joints.

Find a joint supplement with hyaluronic acid in it. That’s what the body needs to make repairs to joints. And consider feeding him a raw turkey neck once or twice a week, they naturally have good stuff for joints in them, since them have a lot of cartilage in them.

If you have bare floors, consider using throw or area rugs at least until he is grown. They think slip and falls can be a big factor in joint damage for puppies. And finally, no stairs for as long as possible. When he has to do stairs, make sure he does them at a walk.

[Shasta220]

I was following the “Joint Health” thread, and some people started talking about Actiflex.

Right now, I’m paying about $20/month for our senior lab’s joint supplements (I don’t remember what the brand name is, I think it’s just a store-brand…), and we could easily spend more and give her extra, as her hips need the help. She also has GSD in her, so that sure didn’t seem to help her joints!

Anyway, I found online that Actiflex is 30-40$ for 32oz…(did the calculations, figured it would last our lab 6-8mo) I REALLY want to try it out, as 5$ monthly is a lot nicer sounding than $20+ monthly. But I don’t want to try it and find out it doesn’t work, then be stuck with it.

How well does it seem to work for you guys?

[theBCnut]

BB has great advertising, that is not the same thing as being a great food. There have been a lot of people having vomitting and diarrhea issues with BB lately.

I think you are right about the protein versus carbs thing. Seniors have less ability to absorb the protein in their diet and can need as much as 50% more, not less. There are specific medical problems that may need the protein reduced, but your vet would be talking to you about diets specific to kidney or liver disease if that was a factor.

You may just need a good ALS food with a joint supplement added. No food has enough joint supplementation to actually have a therapeutic dose.

Maybe look at NutriSource.

[theBCnut]

I would start a joint supplement, just like you are planning to do anyways. Get a few different ones, some work better than others and it really is a matter of what works for your dog. If the clicking stops, you’ve found the right one.

[wallyworld]

Hi,
I’m worrying myself to death and don’t know where to turn. I have a 70lb. Goldendoodle that will be 1 yr this month. I have been very careful about the food I feed, watching calcium, calories etc. I am aware of HDM’s LBP food list. Since he was a few months old he has clicking sounds from either his hips or knees and his feet make a popping sound sometimes when walking on carpet. Taken him to 2 diff vets and both say he seems fine, don’t worry unless he shows serious problems and X-rays can’t be ‘verified’ until 2 years of age. I worry about everything with him and notice the slightest changes whether they are anything or not. I will be starting a joint supplement and fish/coconut oil. I don’t have the money to get comprehensive testing done or to keep taking him to vets that tell me the same thing. He seems to walk fine but today I thought I noticed he was laying on one side more than the other and I thought I noticed him walking with a straighter left rear leg. I may be worrying over nothing but I’m not sure. I lost my little dog last year suddenly to syringomyelia and was traumatized by the whole event. I just need some reassurance or advice!

[Tambourineman]

Since my other thread was hijacked I am starting a new one.

Can anyone recommend any tasty (prescription) joint health dog food with high glucosamine, MSM, omega 3 and 6′s but no corn, rice, gluten and other bad stuff?

Alternately a tasty supplement with glucosamine, MSM, omega 3 and 6′s. My dog used to eat such a pill (NaturVet hip and joint) thrown in with his kibble, but no longer. He won’t eat them even coated with peanut butter or the like.

[theBCnut]

I’m pretty sure I know that none of the OTC joint foods even have close to a therapeutic dose of joint supplements and all the prescription ones I know of are junk.

Jefferspet dot com may be another place to look for different options.

I give my old lady turkey necks and chicken necks, because they have a lot of cartilage and connective tissue in them.

[Tambourineman]

Can anyone recommend any tasty (prescription) joint health dog food with high glucosamine, MSM, omega 3 and 6’s but no corn, rice, gluten and other bad stuff?

Alternately a tasty supplement with glucosamine, MSM, omega 3 and 6’s. My dog used to eat such a pill (NaturVet hip and joint) thrown in with his kibble, but no longer. He won’t eat them even coated with peanut butter or the like.

[theBCnut]

The calcium level in your current food is really high enough, maybe too high. I wouldn’t add more. A good joint supplement is much more likely to offer some help.

[Tambourineman]

I have a 14 year old lab with bad arthritis. An xray disclosed he also has a lesion on his vertebrae. So he has a lot of trouble getting up and around.

Due to his age we have not opted for surgery for his spine as we think it would be too much for him.

We give him EVO Senior which does have some calcium (2.10%). I regret to say he also gets a strip and a half of bacon which is used to hide the many meds he takes (Gabapentin, 3 tramadol, Rimadyl, and Amantadine) He now rejects pill pockets which he used to gulp like dog treats (we have tried peanut butter, cream cheese, bread, swedish meatballs, turkey hot dogs, a pill popper tool, etc., etc.) Bacon is the only thing that works and at his age not getting his meds would be worse than having some bacon.

Anyway, I am wondering if some more calcium would help with respect to building the bone in his vertebrae back up. As an experiment I ground up some Citrical and put it in his food and unlike when other meds are mixed with food he will eat it. (He no longer chews bones so he does not get any calcium that way.) I’ve read that some add ground up egg shells.

the dog food project says this about calcium: “. . . The correct ratio of calcium to phosphorus and magnesium is very important for a dog’s health and needs to be carefully balanced – this is not something you would want to do without doing your research on the topic!” . . .

“Excess intake of calcium results in growth retardation and severe bone and joint abnormalities. [Presumably this applies to puppies] When feeding a quality pet food, supplementation of calcium *** during growth *** is unnecessary, and potentially very dangerous.
Note: Excess calcium causes decreased phosphorus absorption (and vice versa!). Lack of magnesium in the diet renders calcium useless, because the body needs magnesium to properly absorb calcium. If adequate amounts of all 3 of these minerals are present int he diet, the body can regulate the balance according to its needs.”

Citrical includes 20% magnesium (80 mg) and also Vitamin D

Any thoughts?