[Cyndi]

When I started my dog on raw about a month and a half ago, she did the same thing the next day. But she just threw up the once and had a bit of runny poop. I think it might be just their systems getting accustomed to real food and not kibble, if I’m not mistaken. I’m sure HDM or someone else can give you a better answer, but I just wanted to let you know that it’s probably normal and my dog was fine and is thriving on raw now. Good Luck! 🙂

Oh, and I felt the same way as you did the first meal my Bailey ate raw. I don’t know if I was more nervous or excited or what. It was very interesting to watch her at work on the bones and using her teeth the way the were meant to be used instead of just crunching a bowl of kibble. I still enjoy watching her eat.

• This reply was modified 12 years, 5 months ago by Cyndi.

[beaglemom]

Hmm a quick follow up on which I would appreciate any feedback… no one had a problem post-RMB until this morning when both threw up some small pieces of bone mixed with yellow bile. Both had normal poop (small, firm, etc) and both had an appetite for breakfast, and both are acting normally. Is this a normal reaction to the first time that much bone enters their systems… did they not chew enough… do I do feed RMBs again? Thanks HDM/everyone.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Glad to hear they enjoyed their RMBs! 🙂

[beaglemom]

Just wanted to share with the people I know will understand that my dogs just had their first raw meaty bones for dinner tonight! Each had a duck neck that my husband and I held the whole time, since I didn’t want any gulping. Once they both stopped playing tug of war with us, they got the idea and got down to chewing. I must admit that every single one of the questions that Hound Dog Mom posted in the original post on this thread went through my mind, haha… was that piece too big? Are they chewing enough? Etc. Aside from my tendency to worry too much, it was definitely satisfying to watch them be “true carnivores”, crunching and grinding away. They’re both happily sleeping/digesting now… I’m very hopeful it agrees with them so I can continue to increase the variety of RMBs in their diet!

[gmcbogger38]

Thanks guys for the information. I don’t feed rawhides anymore and haven’t for months. I buy them the antlers and I will start giving them some raw meaty bones. Any treats they have gotten lately were freeze dried liver and they got like maybe 3 total within the last couple weeks, so I’m pretty sure it isn’t from “extras”. I actually have looked into Annamaet foods and I like what I see. I will check out Nutrisca. I did get them some raw meat today and fed them a small amount to see how they liked it and they loved it. I really want to just feed raw only, but with one more year of school I won’t have the time. Thanks for the link to that enzyme. I will definitely get some of that. I will probably make an appointment with the vet for next week. Thanks, once again, for all of this information.

[Sully’sMom]

One of my go to favorites is:

fill marrow bones with applesauce and freeze. they love them! I do a tray of 3 or 4 at a time and then always have them ready for a treat that’s both healthy and keeps ’em busy 🙂

[weimlove]

Hi everyone! Most of you know that I was feeding shadow a raw diet. After having a bout of pancreatitis, I have switched back to a high quality kibble because I got so freaked out. I don’t plan on going back to raw, but I am very interested in making a home cooked diet for him. I plan on this diet being grain free as well. I need some information about what supplements he would need. Especially calcium since he will not be consuming cooked bones. Any advice would be much appreciated. Thanks!

[SandyandMila]

Thanks, Sandy!

[pugmomsandy]

I have krill capsules and a bottle of Nature’s Logic sardine oil. I also have Udo’s oil. I’ll use both at the same time sometimes. Haven’t used the coconut in a while since it is just not as convenient!

[SandyandMila]

Great to know, thanks!

[theBCnut]

I use fish, salmon, or krill oil every day, and I use coconut about every other day, when I’m feeding a lower fat meat.

[SandyandMila]

Hi again, thanks for all the help! Do you use both coconut oil and fish oil or alternate the 2? Do you use krill oil? I had read and watched a video of Dr Becker educating about krill oil.

[NectarMom]

Basically and honestly the Customer service almost everywhere SUX so then what would we base our opinions on just customer service and not the food itself?? People hire individuals everyday some place that cannot answer my questions. If I strickly based my opinion on the unhelpful and unfriendly and unknowledgable hired help then my dogs would starve. My Moms dogs are doing fantastic on this food but she wants to try a different variety and I was considering it myself.

Why is the fat content higher than per say Hare Todays ground rabbit and bones and organ mix? Same for turkey?

[gmcbogger38]

Here is my story: I currently feed ACANA and I rotate between the different varieties and all 3 of my dogs have done wonderfully on it. But after a rare bout with fleas my Saint Bernard has terrible yeasty skin with a horrid smell and my American Bulldog is starting to show signs of what I believe to be yeast issues, too. I have no idea if the fleas caused this or if it is just a coincidence, but I want to fix it soon. From my research I know raw is the way to go for the issues my dogs are facing and just plain better for them period. I am a full time college student with one more year of school, so feeding a homemade raw diet is not possible right now, but that is my goal one day. Anyway, I was thinking of feeding 50/50 raw and kibble. I wanted to feed Tucker’s Frozen Raw in the a.m. and kibble in the p.m.. I will probably switch my dogs to Orijen kibble because I know that white potato and sweet potato will feed yeast and Orijen does not contain those ingredients while ACANA does. I also will be feeding raw meaty bones once in a while. If I feed the 50/50 split will it still be beneficial to add a supplement like Nupro Silver? The people who owned my Saint before I got her did not feed her correctly as a growing pup (39 pounds underweight when I got her at 2 years old and was fed Iams), so since she has hip issues supplementing with glucosamine is something I really want to do and I figured the other natural ingredients in Nupro Silver wouldn’t hurt. If there are other supplements out there that are better please let me know. Just from my research the Nupro will be cheaper for me to give than the NuVet supplements I am giving currently. I also know that feeding duck feet is a natural source of glucosamine and I will be giving her some of those every now and then. I am just wondering if this plan sounds like a good idea or if it is stupid. I really don’t know a whole lot about raw, but I want to learn more. Any input would be greatly appreciated!

[pugmomsandy]

Oh, the ethnic grocery stores have skinless necks also.

[SandyandMila]

Great, thanks!!

[pugmomsandy]

I’ve bought skinless turkey necks from Primal and I buy bulk duck necks from a local retailer by me. The grocery store has skinless necks too. I’ve seen them at Walmart and the health food store.

[SandyandMila]

I have used coconut oil in the past and loved it but haven’t picked some up in awhile but do sprinkle some of the coconut chips in her food sometimes and also add yogurt. The freeze-dried raw I give her does have it. Where do u purchase the skinless meaty bones from? I was thinking of starting her off slowly anyway with the smaller marrow bone. I don’t mind adding more fat to her diet, she’s lean and muscular and has lost a few lbs from our nice long evening walks, so she could use it. A rewarding treat. 🙂

[pugmomsandy]

SanDnMila,

The necks I buy are skinless and my small dogs did not have any problems with them from the start. Neither did they with marrow bones. I normally don’t feed them low fat foods so they are used to eating normal fat and canned food seems to have more fat too. Mine started eating raw with commercial products so it was even higher in fat than the kibble. Then I introduced RMB after about a year of commercial frozen patties. I would start out with small marrow bones though maybe 1 – 2 inches versus the 4 inch ones to start but I don’t think skinless necks would hurt. Are you already adding some fat to her diet with oils like fish or coconut?

Here’s the thread with pictures:

/forums/topic/pictures-of-dogs-eating-raw-raw-meals/page/3/#post-19529

http://i1326.photobucket.com/albums/u651/pugmomsandy/pictures%20for%20posting/ducky1_zps2c6ec569.jpg

[SandyandMila]

Great videos of Gertie!! 🙂 I’m thinking of beginning Mila on raw meaty/ recreational bones and I’m excited to see the health benefits they will give her. I have read and seen videos on the Primal website regarding the feeding of these bones but would like to ask more info if I could. Recreational bones are to fed 1-2 a week, how often should meaty bones be fed? How long should they be stored in the freezer, especially after the bag has been opened? I know Mila can eat the turkey necks or chicken backs that medium-large size dogs can eat but should I start her off on the chicken necks? Because she’s not used to having fatty food, will the fat have a negative effect on her stomach or is it good fat and won’t interfere? Do you feed the Primal bones or should I look at other companies as well? Which do you suggest? Thanks so much, I look forward to your reply! (:

[pugmomsandy]

“I have heard varying opinions in the forums about adding probiotics and enzymes. Someone said there are natural probiotics and enzymes without having to add and pay for supplements.”

There are naturally occurring probiotics in foods like kefir and yogurt and raw goat milk and tripe (which tripe also has enzymes). It really depends on how healthy or unhealthy your dog’s gut is. Has he eaten a variety of foods so that he produces a variety of natural gut flora? Or has he only eaten a few foods for a long period of time? Also yogurt usually only has a few strains of acidophilus. Some store bought probiotics have over 10 strains which I think is ideal. I have both Mercola and Dr Langers probiotics.

“How/when do I do this with a raw diet? How do I do this on his current diet while I’m transitioning to a raw diet? How do I transition to a raw diet?”

You can give probiotics and/or digestive enzymes with meals as you are transitioning and even when he is completely on a raw diet. I still feed kibble and raw so I still use these products. You can transition him to a raw diet in various ways. You can slowly introduce raw (like frozen raw medallions or raw bites like Instinct brand has) a couple times a day as treats to see how he does or you can feed one meal of old food and the next meal of raw food. Or every 3rd meal of raw food. Depends on how his stools are! Also raw foods generally have more fat so you must take that into consideration.

“Are there specific recipes for smaller breeds versus larger breeds, older versus younger dogs, etc.? Is it okay to feed him nothing but raw? Can I freeze/store what I’ve made if I’ll be on vacation?”

A homemade raw diet is good for all breeds and ages (except maybe for breeds prone to pancreatitis) and he can be fed nothing but raw. You can freeze in small batches and pull out what you need for 2 to 3 days worth. For vacation, if you’re taking your dog you might be interested in freeze dried raw as it is shelf stable. Some examples are Stella and Chewy’s, Nature’s Variety Instinct and Vital Essentials, Nutrisca and Primal. I wouldn’t give him marrow bones in the beginning as they are just fat.

Yes, he is an inactive dog. After you start feeding, be sure to weigh and/or monitor “body condition score” so that he is an ideal “shape”. My dogs are heavy but are still of good body condition for their breed. There a several “body condition score” photos you can see online.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Response #2:

Hi marty0203 –

Calcium and phosphorus levels really only affect the joint health of large and giant breed dogs during the growth phase. By the time a large or giant breed dog reaches two years of age it is either dysplastic or not dysplastic. For all dogs, calcium and phosphorus levels should be in balance with one another (between a 1:1 and 2:1 ratio of C:P) but this is really only a concern for those making homemade food, balanced commercial foods will have a proper ratio of calcium to phosphorus.

I strongly feel that a diet high in protein, moderate in fat and low in carbohydrates is best for most dogs. My three bloodhounds eat between 45% and 55% protein, 30% and 40% fat and <20% carbohydrates at each meal. If feeding a dry food I would search for one with no less than 30% protein.

I feel it’s important to feed a variety of foods. I no longer feed dry dog food, but when I did I switched to a new brand at the end of each bag and added a variety of canned and/or fresh food toppers daily. I would recommend finding at least 3 quality foods (preferable different brands with different protein sources) and switching every so often. If you can mix in canned or fresh food occasionally this is great too and canned and fresh foods are much more species-appropriate than dry food. Patty had a wonderful suggestion with recommending you check out online retailers. I live in a small area with a limited selection of quality pet products as well and, for this reason, do the majority of my shopping online. In addition to the sites she suggested, some others you may want to check out are wag.com, doggiefood.com and naturalk9supplies.com.

Some supplements that promote joint health are glucosmaine, chondroitin, MSM, esterified fatty acids (such as cetyl myristoleate) and hyaluronic acid. Some who foods supplements that promote joint health are sea cucumber, green lipped mussel, eggshell membrane, shark cartilage and velvet antler. Raw meaty bones (especially those high in cartilage such as trachea, gullet and chicken feet) and naturally rich in joint health promoting compounds such as chondroitin. Turmeric, tart cherry, boswellia, yucca, white willow, bromelian and high doses of omega 3 fatty acids (up to 300 mg. per 10 lbs.) all help to manage pain and inflammation. If your dogs don’t have any orthopedic issues, a basic glucosamine/chondroitin supplement would be fine for maintenance. If your dogs have any symptoms of pain and inflammation you may want to consider a combination of some of the joint health supplements listed in addition to one of the natural anti-inflammatories.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi Marty –

Calcium and phosphorus levels are really only a concern for joint health during the growth phase. Once large/giant breed dogs reach two years of age their joints are fully developed and at this point they’re either dysplastic or not dysplastic. Calcium and phosphorus levels obviously need to be in balance with each other (between a 1:1 and 2:1 ratio of C:P) but this is true for all dogs, not just large/giant breeds, and isn’t a concern as long as you’re feeding a balanced commercial food (where balancing C:P ratios come into play are with homemade diets). I personally feel that a diet high in protein, moderate in fat and low in carbohydrates is healthiest and most species-appropriate for healthy dogs. My three bloodhounds eat between 45% and 55% protein, 30% and 40% fat and <15% carbohydrates at each meal. If feeding a dry food, I would search for one with no less than 30% protein. I also would not limit yourself to only one brand – variety is important. I no longer feed dry dog food, but when I did I switched brands and protein sources at the end of every bag and I added different canned and/or fresh food toppers daily. I would recommend finding a minimum of three foods your dogs can eat (preferably different brands with different protein sources). Patty had a wonderful suggestion with online ordering if selection is limited where you live – some other sites that have a big selection and offer free shipping in addition to the two she posted are Wag.com, Doggiefood.com and NaturalK9Supplies.com. There are several supplements you can give your dogs that help to promote joint health and/or have anti-inflammatory properties. If your dogs don’t have any orthopedic conditions or arthritis a basic glucosamine, chondroitin, MSM supplement would be fine to start off with. Some other supplements good for joint maintenance are hyaluronic acid and esterfied fatty acids (like cetyl myristoleate). Some whole food supplements that are beneficial for the joints are eggshell membrane, velvet elk antler, sea cucumber, green lipped mussel and shark cartilage. Raw meaty bones (especially those high in cartilage such as trachea, chicken feet and gullets) are very rich in naturally occurring chondroitin. For dogs experiencing pain/arthritis some natural anti-inflammatories include high doses of omega 3 fatty acids (up to 300 mg. per 10 lbs.), turmeric, boswellia, tart cherry, yucca, bromelian and white willow. Generally human supplements are cheaper and higher quality than supplements marketed to dogs, adjust the dosage accordingly (a good rule of thumb is a 25 lb. dog would get about 1/4 of the recommended human dose, 1/2 the human dose for a 50 lb. dog, 3/4 the human dose for a 75 lb. dog and full human dose for dogs >100 lbs.). Also – as you may already know – the most important factor to maintaining healthy joints and staving off arthritis in large and giant breed dogs is maintaining a healthy body weight, it’s very important that large/giant breeds don’t become overweight as this adds a lot of stress to the joints.

[NectarMom]

Sally enjoying her marrow bone. These photos are a bit old and we learned a hard lesson on giving marrow bones.

[cvcman]

Ok we adopted a 3yr old border collie/ mutt ?? About 7 weeks ago…she was on cheapo Walmart food and we weened her onto TOTW Bson and Venison…her stool was very soft and three times a day…we figured it may be the hi protein and the egg in it so we switched her to the lamb which is lower protein and no egg…
Stool is MUCH better firmer but she still goes 3 times a day which seems excessive. She eats two cups a day of food fed once in the morning…I do give her MilkBone healthy granola biscuts but I break them up in small pcs and use as a treat…so she only gets about 2 whole bones a day and they are pretty small…
Thoughts ?

[Hound Dog Mom]

Raw ground rabbit bones and organs with spirugreen definitely isn’t a balanced diet on its own, but it will probably be fine as long as you continue to feed at least one meal of kibble daily.

[4dogmom]

Oh yeah – and I occasionally give them a water packed sardine for a treat. I can’t stand to look at them, but they love them, and I hear the bones are good for them.

[beagleowner]

No interest in toys. Thought about getting him something to chew on. He can’t have grains and seems the knuckle bones that the vet suggested didn’t keep him interested. He tore meet off of them just left them. Am scared of rawhide

[beagleowner]

Henry is 15 and now deaf. His eyesight and smell is good. He sleeps during the day but in the evening he barks constantly and wants treats. He is fed his fresh food of chicken and vegetables a day and so he is not Hungry but begs and barks constantly during the night. He doesn’t bother my husband as much but barks at me and sits in front of me all evening. Finally late at night he settles down and sleeps. He goes out twice during the night. He barks at 7 AM for breakfast and is patient then. It is night time that he is restless and barks, barks and barks. Foing to try getting bones or kongs . Maybe that will settle him down. Any suggestions on why he is barking at night.

[DieselJunki]

For the life of me I have never been able to get Moose’s stools to become firm. They are always very soft, never any diarrhea but real soft. And I mean since we’ve had him at 8 weeks he has never really pooped firm (He has been threw a couple brands of kibble and then The Honest Kitchen). He also goes like 8 times a day. I boarded him again for another month at a totally different facility and while he is there I asked them if they could try and get some weight back on the guy as he is still so skinny. They mentioned to me it could be a parasite due to his soft stools and trouble gaining weight. I don’t believe he has trouble gaining weight I just think the other kennel wasn’t paying good attention to the way you could see his hip bones. I wouldn’t believe he had a parasite either as his soft stools have persisted threw 2 stool tests from the vets office. One was even given when he got all the rest of his shots a few months ago.

I give him Mercola Pro-Biotic and the Enzymes and still has always been the same issue.

Anyways, the new kennel asked if they could do an experiment and feed him 8 cups a day total, 4 in the morning and 4 at night for one week to see if he gains any weight. He is much more active at this new kennel as well. He is back on The Honest Kitchen Love as they will not feed raw. I am not sure if feeding him a raw diet will fix his stool issue as he ate it for 1 week and still had soft stools, and that was before I even gave him the organ mix too.

What on earth could be the issue behind this. Maybe this is normal? I’d try canned pumpkin but I really want to get behind the issue of these soft stools instead of trying to mask it as it’s not a once in awhile thing.

• This topic was modified 12 years, 6 months ago by DieselJunki.

[beagleowner]

Thanks HDM. He is a heavy chewer with those strong beagle jaws. The kongsickles sound like something that would keep him busy after dinner and stop ‘bugging” me. I have him sooooo spoiled! The raw meaty bones sound good. Don’t I have to be afraid of splintering since he has strong jaws and a ripping method with bones. We got knuckle bones and par boiled them at the advice if our vet. No luck. He pulled at them and knawed. When the meat was cleaned off, he wasn’t interested. Didn’t take long. He doesn’t seem to like raw meat. We tried the bones before par boiling and just got one of those beagle disgusted looks.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Raw meaty bones (turkey necks, chicken leg quarters, etc.) or, if he’s not a heavy chewer, recreational bones (knuckle bones, marrow bones, etc.).

[harpersmom]

Can anyone suggest great supplements for a 4.5 year old, Otherwise Very Healthy ,Female Akita who just had TPLO surgery, and will go back in in 8 weeks for the other leg? She’s no dummy, naturally cutting back her own calories when free feeding kibble- due to the reduction in energies spent. I feed Wellness kibble along with a Multitude of Fresh proteins & whole foods. I rotate, advocating variety: chicken, buffalo, salmon, mackerel, fresh caught river trout , a bit of seaweed for iodine, raw farm fresh eggs, some cooked whole grains (everything from barley to quinoa to oatmeal, i rotate), some greens, some fruit & veggies (avocado yesterday). I give a Fish Sourced Omega Oil supplement w/dha (extra now, for inflammation), glucosamine/chondroitin MSM, I’m making fresh chicken broth to give her collagen, and mixing the broth with gelatin for chicken blox treats. Extra protein right now for healing skin, ligaments, muscle. Normal supplements include daily and rotated treats, too: brewer’s yeast, marrow bones, cultured dairy (she LOVES my homemade creme fraiche and yoghurt), probiotics (daily, especially since she’s on antibiotics right now…wellness kibble has prebiotics in it, too), seasonally: fresh raw local honey w/pollen for allergies. Perhaps i’m leaving some basic vit/min supplements off this list, but are there any supplements that will specifically aid in healing, recover, address inflammation, or help reduce pain that i’m missing? The vet has her on Rimadyl, antibiotics, tramadol. Thank you… And if you’ve personally gone through a TPLO with a Big, Young, Active dog, i’d LOVE to ask you some very specific questions, if anyone has the time… I appreciate your help.

[pugmomsandy]

That’s quite a broad statement. Meat and eggs do not make a complete diet. Dogs also need bones and organs and even green tripe has some vegetation in it. Fish (of course there are certain ones to avoid) is also good to incorporate into their diet. Also these days, the meat from our feed animals and farmed fish are not very healthy so certain vitamins and essential fatty acid supplementation can be necessary.

[theBCnut]

Your tripe has balanced calcium so while it is boneless it still has the calcium and your herring has bones too. Or am I confused, which we all know is a regular and constant state for me anyway.

[InkedMarie]

One of my favorite pet stores sells bones by Tucker; wonder if its the same company?

[GSDsForever]

Dogspot,

I am not exactly an apologist for raw meat diets or bones & raw food. It’s not how I choose to feed or what I would even consider to be the very best diet out there.

My #1 preference is for a balanced homemade diet with a wide variety of lightly cooked and raw ingredients, depending on each ingredient, prioritizing nutrient dense, active super foods. Digestibility also matters to me, as well as whether my dog actually enjoys his food.

But, to be fair, 1)I’ve known many dogs doing well on well prepared safe raw meat based diets with very conscientious owners. 2)Many commercial kibbles, treats, etc have had huge contamination problems and recalls related to salmonella precisely, as well as moldy grains, melamine, vomitoxins, aflatoxins, e coli, etc. This is hardly a raw foods specific hazard or common occurrence. 3)Dogs, in truth, typically handle bacteria and such much better than humans do and healthy dogs have high tolerances.

I think some alarmist stuff with raw feeding is rather overblown. For example, I feed raw eggs and cooked eggs, and have eaten undercooked eggs in various forms and recipes all my life . . . without once getting sick from salmonella or having my dog do so either. At the same time, I became very sick with food poisoning from a single COOKED organic SWEET POTATO — likely either from inadequate washing or black spots on the skin that can cause rather virulent food poisoning.

[GSDsForever]

Suresh,

The highest quality dog foods and best companies take great care not to include those nasty ingredients. The key is finding a company/brand you believe in and can trust.

Looking at a company’s history, verifying the quality of main ingredients/sourcing on the the label, quality control checks, etc. will help reassure you about the food you select. If they aren’t forthcoming with answers and sympathetic, eager to help (although with the really small companies this can take time to get back to you with answers), or are evasive & vague or deceptive, or you don’t like the answers, walk away & find another brand.

Re vegetarian diets, if they are *vegetarian* as opposed to vegan, it is possible for them to be every bit as high quality, digestible, nutrient rich and health promoting as meat based. Organic free range natural vegetarian fed eggs, organic yogurt with live cultures, cottage cheese are all very good primary protein sources for dogs. You can do this with homemade. I’ve not been very impressed with commercially prepared, generally vegan (not merely vegetarian), kibbles and canned foods and I am pretty familiar with the options out there. Other new ones are insanely expensive. So while it is theoretically possible to make a very good vegetarian commercial kibble, it doesn’t seem to be readily available.

Not vegetarian, but more acceptable to many vegetarians, in that it is not cruelly factory farmed, fed unnatural weird things, and one of the least contaminated flesh foods out there is sardines. All are wild, live near the bottom of the food chain and so are not contaminated like other larger & longer lived predator fish, super high Omega 3 brain food also great for skin & coat, perfectly balanced calcium-phosphorous & soft easily digestible bones. Sardines are probably one of the very best non-vegetarian foods a dog could eat, and, to my mind, waaaay superior to the more popular-with-humans chicken based food.

Vegan is doable in dogs but riskier and harder, needs a good supplement including things like B12, l-carnitine, taurine, Omega 3. The easy part is supplying the amino acids through an array of foods, as the body does not distinguish between the same amino acid from one food versus another. In terms of nutrients (not natural preferences or digestive system), dogs are more omnivorous vs obligate carnivores, cats. The hard part is that many plant foods are not easily digested by dogs, whose systems are not designed for them. Many beans and whole grains (non whole grains, like white rice, are easily digested but high sugar) are next to impossible for dogs to digest, no matter how well cooked & prepared. Some breeds, like GSDs, are even less capable as a group of digesting than other breeds. Unlike whole soybeans, tofu IS very digestible; many dogs like it; it’s very versatile in how it can be prepared; and it offers various health benefits. It is healing to the stomach lining, for example. On the other hand, a prominent very balanced study of vegetarian fed pets showed that pets fed vegetarian diets without soy had much better health and longevity. From personal experience and knowledge of dogs eating vegetarian diets, lentils and black eyed peas seem to be more easily digested. It can be hard to supply enough calories and avoid too much fiber. Dogs can consume up to 50% fat in their diets in good health though, and vegetarian fats like organic virgin coconut oil are good for them & easily digested. Vegetarian diets, in humans and dogs, tend to be excessively high in Omega 6 fats which are pro-inflammatory and deficient in Omega 3.

Certain breeds like boxers and dobermans are at much greater health risk on a vegetarian or vegan diet, due to high breed susceptibility to deadly cardiomyopathy.

[crazy4cats]

Oh boy, I hope Moose brings up something soon. I totally know what it feels like waiting and worrying. One of mine also swallowed a glove. My previous dog would occasionally chew things up, especially when young. But, I think my two now will try to eat and swallow anything! I try and keep them occupied with an occasional bully stick in a vice grip and also raw marrow bones. However, I do worry about chipped teeth with the raw bones, but so far so good.

Good Luck!

[theBCnut]

The person I know used them raw feeding. He has a huge Pit that swallowed a whole chicken thigh. He read about using vise grips on one of the raw feeding sites. It really worked for him. He says he used the vise grips for about three months and then he stopped. The dog learned to chew his bones. I’ve never seen the dog, but how big would he have to be to swallow a whole thigh!?!

[Hound Dog Mom]

If you give bones they should be fed raw, cooked bones are more likely to splinter. I feed my dogs fully edible raw meaty bones such as chicken backs, turkey necks, pork necks, etc. I don’t do marrow bones or knuckle bones as my dogs are strong chewers. Bestbullysticks.com has a great selection of natural chews and they’re fairly reasonably priced – all their chews are USDA approved.

[beagleowner]

Thanks HDM. Henry is a strong chewer. Our vet had told us to get knuckle bones and par boil them and give those to him. But he chewed so hard that I was afraid he would break a tooth. Didn’t take him long to lose interest. What kind of raw bones do you feed? I thought of the kongs but didn’t know what to fill them with. I will try your suggestion. Also will look for the natural chews. The chicken chews I made in the oven were no task for Henry they are gone in a flash. I spoiled him rotten with treats and now he “hunts” me down every night. It is hysterical that a grown woman would hide from him til he decides to lay down. However that Beagle nose tracks me down most of the time. Thanks again for the great information.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Treats and chews I use to keep my dogs busy:
-Raw bones
-Frozen kongs (I layer canned pumpkin and a grain-free kibble then freeze it)
-Natural chews (bully sticks, cow hooves, dried trachea, pig ears – make sure they’re sourced from the US)
-Himalayan chews
-Zuke’s Z Bones dental chews (the only “dental” chew product I’ll give my dogs, they’re grain-free and contain superfoods – I don’t give them too often though because they are high in carbs)

Also – depending on how powerful of a chewer your dog is you may want to avoid really dense bones (like marrow bones and knuckle bones) or hooves. Less powerful chewers should be fine but strong chewers can chip teeth.

[theBCnut]

I like the idea of the premix not having enough calcium so I can add raw meaty bones without it throwing off the calcium/phosphorus ratio. I had never heard that about Dr Harvey’s. I’ll have to look into it.

[DieselJunki]

Ok so I think I got what I want to do down.

Moose is 50lbs (Just weighed him). Feeding him 4% of his body weight to start off I think and will adjust from there (He got really underweight at his boarding kennel, his hip bones are exposed, I’m pretty angry about it, someone could have called me and told me so I could tell them to up his food. Grr). I have decided to start off I’m going to do what HDM does and feed a grind in the morning and then an RMB at night which will probably be turkey necks.

If I were to feed 1lb of the chicken grind from MPC in the morning and then 1lb or turkey necks at night for a whole month does that sound like a pretty balanced diet for a 7 month old large breed (American Bull Dog) puppy? It’s the whole bone/calcium thing that kind of scares me.

Since coming back from his boarding kennel (I brought his food with him so he has been on THK since he has been there also) he has been super gassy and he poops 5 times a day at least and they are very very soft. I have upped his feedings to 2.5 cups in the morning and 2.5 at night to try and put some weight back on him so he doesn’t look so emaciated. I really am angry they allowed him to get that skinny. Really kicking myself for boarding him there, but they had excellent reviews and we even did a puppy class with the trainer and it seemed like a wonderful place. Can’t wait to get him right again.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi Cyndi –

I don’t ever recommend cutting up RMBs unless the dog is very small – this just makes the dog even more likely to gulp. Some larger dogs don’t chew small RMBs such as chicken necks and feet and for this reason it’s better to feed them larger RMBs only so they are forced to chew (i.e. turkey necks, chicken backs, etc.). Only crunching a few times is normal – dogs don’t finely chew their food like people do. As long as she’s not swallowing things whole I wouldn’t be concerned. If you scroll down through the raw food topics there’s a thread called “Eating Raw Meaty Bones” that I started. In the thread I have two videos posted (near the end) of one of my dogs eating RMBs so newbies can get an idea of what’s normal – check those out.

• This reply was modified 12 years, 6 months ago by Hound Dog Mom.

[Cyndi]

Hi everyone!! 🙂 I have a question…. So, Bailey is doing really well on the raw since her “episode” last week. She only had diarehha & threw up that one day. I have been slowly introducing bones back into her diet. I went thru 2 1/2 lb thing of chicken grind from Hare Today over the course of a couple days with boneless skinless chicken added to it. Just started giving her chicken feet yesterday and today I gave her a little bit of ground beef with her dinner which also included a boneless, skinless chicken thigh, a chicken foot and a chicken leg and some yogurt. My question is, although she’s not necessarily a “gulper”, she hasn’t been really chewing the chicken feet, or the leg she had tonight, all that much. She does chew it and crunches up the bones a few times, but then it seems like she more or less swallows it whole. Is this ok for her to do? Or should I start cutting up her RMB’s in pieces. She doesn’t act like she’s going to choke at all, but I can tell it takes a big effort on her part to swallow whatever it is. Any help, as usual, will most certainly be appreciated.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Runny poop and vomiting, that’s not good. Occasionally when my dogs eat dense bones they’ll throw up some bone fragments, usually about 8 hours after they eat. I’ve never had this occur with poultry bones though – just heavier bones like marrow bones and knuckle bones (why I no longer feed recreational bones). Are you leaving the skin on your chicken legs? The diarrhea could be from high fat content – the first few times my dogs had raw lamb (very fatty) they had some loose stools. Was she fine with the Fresh Pet? It may be a good idea to put her back on Fresh Pet entirely with pumpkin and a good probiotic supplement to get her digestive system back in order. After everything has been firmed up and there’s been no vomiting for at least a few days I’d mix a small amount of lean boneless raw meat with the Fresh Pet. If she’s tolerating this add a bit more – do this over the course of a week or so. If she continues to tolerate small amounts of boneless lean raw meat try giving her a raw meaty bone again but be sure to remove the skin. All dogs are different and some need a more gradual transition than others. My dogs have iron stomachs and can eat anything, I’ve never done a transition, but some dogs are very sensitive to even the most minor changes in their diet.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Yes – sometimes dogs will pass small pieces of bone in their stool. It happens more often with denser bones – for example, my dogs will pass fragments when they eat a pork neck but not with poultry bones. Personally, I don’t think it would matter either way what you try next. When I started raw feeding I went right into a rotation of chicken, turkey, beef, bison, lamb and sardine and neither of my dogs had issues. If she seems to be tolerating the chicken you can probably move on to something else, if her stool stays runny maybe give her a bit of canned pumpkin and keep her on the chicken for a few days longer.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi boxermim2013 –

I can relate to you here. One of my girls, Gertie (the dog in my avatar) is extremely difficult to keep weight on. She was so scrawny as a pup I had tests run too and they came back clear. The vet told me once she was spayed she’d put some weight on, but she was spayed 2 years ago and keeping weight on her is still a struggle. With her, as long as her hip bones aren’t protruding I feel I’m doing good!

I wasn’t able to get her over 60 lbs. until I switched her to a high protein, high fat, low carbohydrate raw diet. I make her food and I generally keep protein between 45% and 55%, fat between 30% and 40% and carbs less than 20%. I’ve now got her holding steady at 68 lbs. – given her height she should be much heavier, but at least she doesn’t look emaciated any more. I also give her lots of treats between meals, I mostly feed balanced foods as treats so I can feed her more without throwing off her diet – i.e. freeze-dried raw medallions, frozen kongs layered with grain-free kibble and canned pumpkin, ziwi peak food for training treats and (prior to the recent recall) I was using EVO’s Wild Craving biscuits which conform to AAFCO nutrient profiles for balanced foods.

Some other options – Abady makes a very calorie-dense granular food – it has around 800 calories per cup (nearly double the calories of Blue Buffalo). I’ve used Abady and before and was pleased. I also know people that have put weight on their dogs with satin balls – you can look up recipes online – they usually include fatty hamburger, eggs, oil, molasses, etc. You could add a balanced omega 3-6-9 and/or coconut oil to his food for a fat/calorie boost. You could try supplementing with digestive enzymes to ensure he’s digesting everything he does eat. If you want to stick with kibble, I’d also recommend at least picking a more calorie-dense formula (>500 kcal. per cup). Some calorie-dense options include – Canine Caviar Grain-Free Puppy (636 kcal. per cup), Dr. Tim’s Momentum (588 kcal. per cup), NutriSource Super Performance (529 kcal. per cup), Timberwolf Organics (I believe all the grain-free formulas are over 500 kcal. per cup).

Good luck!

• This reply was modified 12 years, 7 months ago by Hound Dog Mom.
• This reply was modified 12 years, 7 months ago by Hound Dog Mom.