[Jeaneene S]

I really wanted to put this in the “Struvite Crystals” thread – but for some reason that particular page always shows me as *not* logged in, even when I log in from within that thread.

Anyway, I could use some help. I have a 10 1/2 year old male Siberian Husky who has – his entire life – been on Beneful dry dog food and never had any health problems AT ALL. At one point I tried to change to the Blue Wilderness (thinking it might be better for them), but he and my 10 1/2 year old female Husky had the worst diarrhea I’ve ever seen, so it was back to the Beneful kibble. (I’ve always heard dry kibble is best for dental health, which is why that’s all I’ve ever used)

Now, this past February my big boy had what appeared to be an awful UTI. So the next day, I got a good urine catch (looked super cloudy, but just yellow) and took it and him to the vet. Vet found no crystals but lots of blood (at the microscopic level) in his urine, and did an xray, but didn’t find anything wrong. She put him on antibiotics and it was gone.

On May 1 we moved to a new house, and got a new vet – had all the dogs’ files brought to the new vet (I brought them myself so I knew they wouldn’t get lost). Then, on Memorial Day, I noticed he looked like he was having a hard time urinating again and to my horror it looked as if he was even peeing blood. Immediately called the new vet and explained what it *appeared* to be; she said that even though they were closed, she would call in an rx for Amoxicillin for him. No more than a few days of being off the antibiotics, and we started having problems AGAIN (thankfully not peeing blood this time). So, hubby took him to the Vet this past Monday and with a different kind of xray, she found 1 stone the size of a quarter, 3 stones the size of a nickel, and about 15 smaller ones. Needless to say my big boy went in for surgery yesterday morning (I am picking him up today).

Now the vet is telling me that I have to put him on the Royal Canin SO food (which she has already said he’s been turning his nose up at the vet’s), and the only treats he can have is if I take the Royal Canin SO canned food, cut it up in to squares and bake them into “treats”. We’re talking about a dog who is used to his mommy throwing a steak on the grill to mix in with his food (well, him and the other 3 girl dogs in the house) … getting bell peppers, apples and other fruits/veggies as treats, having watered-down applesauce popsicles, etc. Now she’s saying he can never have any of this ever again AND I have to give him this food that appears to me to be very poor quality and that he doesn’t like?! I’m having a very hard time accepting this.

I asked the vet at the Petsmart (where I am having to get the food) for a second opinion – and oddly enough – he seconded that opinion. How do I tell his regular vet that I don’t approve of this dog food, and that I’d LIKE to try a more vitamin-based/holistic approach as well as make his food for him which I feel would be better quality – not to mention cheaper – and where I can add the necessary added vitamins and minerals and would still prevent any further bladder stone issues.

Should trust both his new vet and the Banfield vet at Petsmart (his previous vet – when I called her last week also said he may have to go on a special diet for the remainder of his life too, so that makes three)? I’m willing to make his food, give him the supplements, test his urine … ANYTHING! Or am I just being unreasonable? And would it be “wrong” to go against the vet and do what I *think* is right?

• This topic was modified 10 years, 6 months ago by Jeaneene S.

[Anonymous]

I am not a fan of free feeding, for tips you may find helpful see General Guidelines in this link http://www.homeovet.net/dynamic/php/downloads/dog-c8470f2c75dbe4b683205c3919ee2310/dog_diet_complete.pdf

I have recently discovered this site and find it informative http://skeptvet.com/Blog/category/nutrition/

My dog with allergies and a sensitive stomach does well on Nutrisca salmon and chickpea with a spoonful of cooked chicken added, plus a splash of water.

My 15 year old small breed does well on Wysong or Nutrisca kibble soaked in water overnight, a little cooked chicken added, plus water (hx of bladder stones)

I recently took the old guy in for a checkup and his lab work is better than mine, lol.
He has age related issues but otherwise healthy.

PS: I never leave food down, if they don’t eat within 20 minutes the food is picked up and put in the fridg, offered at the next mealtime.

[Anonymous]

Q: How can I prevent my dog from developing cystine bladder stones in the future?

A: Dogs that have developed cystine bladder stones in the past will often be fed a therapeutic diet for life. Diets that promote alkaline urine that is more dilute are recommended. Most dogs should be fed a canned or wet diet to encourage water consumption. Dilute urine with a low urine specific gravity (USpG less than 1.020) is an important part of the prevention of calcium oxalate bladder stones. In certain cases, medications such as n-(mercaptoropionyl)-glycine (2-MPG) (ThiolaTM) may be required. Urinary alkalinizers may be needed to maintain an alkaline urine ph of greater than 7.5.

In addition, careful routine monitoring of the urine to detect any signs of bacterial infection is also recommended. Bladder x-rays and urinalysis will typically be performed one month after treatment and then every three to six months for life. Dogs displaying any clinical signs such as frequent urinations, urinating in unusual places, painful urination or the presence of blood in the urine should be evaluated immediately. Unfortunately, cystine stones have a high rate of recurrence, despite careful attention to diet and lifestyle.

Above is an excerpt from http://www.michigananimalhospital.com/page/452281614

It sounds more complicated than it is, increase water, frequent bathroom breaks, make sure dog is urinating normal flow and amount and not having difficulty.

Otherwise, find the appropriate diet (veterinarian/nutritionist approved), continue healthy lifestyle, walks, play.

Follow veterinarian’s recommendation for testing, medication, supplements.

Give us an update, hope all goes smoothly.

[crazy4cats]

Hi Scott-
Wow, I hadn’t heard of these type of stones until now. After reading a little about them, you are absolutely correct. They are extremely rare. Again, sounds like extra fluids and frequent opportunities to urinate are very important with these type of stones also. Here is a link from the Whole Dog Journal that may be of some help, but I’m guessing you may have already seen it: http://www.whole-dog-journal.com/issues/13_6/features/Kidney-Stones-Bladder-Stones_16231-1.html

The article discusses cystine stones more towards the end of it. I hope someone can give you some words of wisdom for your friend. Good luck!

[scottNY]

Hi All,

I am helping a friend whose 5 year old Jack Russell/Chihuahua mix just had bladder stone surgery. Unfortunately, he is part of the 1% that has the rather rare Cystine stones. We have both heard and read a lot of negative feedback about the Hill’s Science and Royal Canin prescription foods. Does anyone have any experience with using quality commercial food, mostly wet, mixing in some quality kibble for texture? If so, what do you recommend? My friend would like to stay grain-free, but it is so hard to know which foods use low-purine proteins, etc. I have gotten great advice for my dog from all of you here, so any input would be appreciated.

Thanks!

[crazy4cats]

LM-
I agree that the calcium oxalate stones are more concerning than struvite in either dogs or cats as they cannot be dissolved. They have to be either flushed out or surgically removed. I am just pointing out, just like the link that you posted from Entirely Pets, that potassium citrate is ONLY for the treatment of oxalate stones, not struvite. It increases the pH in both dogs and cats, not lowers it. It would be detrimental to a dog or cat with struvite stones. The poster stated that his dog had struvite stones, not calcium oxalate. In fact, the topic of this thread is bladder STRUVITE stones.

[Anonymous]

How can I prevent my dog from developing struvite bladder stones in the future?

Dogs that have experienced struvite bladder stones will often be fed a therapeutic diet for life. Diets lower in protein, phosphorus and magnesium and promote acidic urine are recommended. The preventative diet is NOT the same as the diet that promotes dissolution of the stones. In certain cases, medications to acidify the urine may be required. In addition, careful routine monitoring of the urine to detect any signs of bacterial infection is also recommended. Bladder x-rays and urinalysis will be performed one month after successful treatment, dietary or surgical, and then every three to six months for life. Dogs displaying any clinical signs of urinary tract infections such as frequent urination, urinating in unusual places, painful urination or the presence of blood in the urine should be evaluated immediately. Keep in mind that the greatest risk factor for developing struvite bladder stones in the dog is a urinary tract infection.

Above link is an excerpt from: http://www.michigananimalhospital.com/page/452425598

[C4D]

Honestly, he’s probably shedding because of the diet. The RX diets are not nearly the quality of what you were feeding him. You might want to think about switching him back to a well rated wet food. Eating a diet with a lot of moisture is your best friend in combatting bladder stones.
I have a 10+ yo lab with arthritis for over 5 years due to injury and we walk a couple of miles almost every day. I use human fish oil and glucosamine pills, but with a guy that little you might want to check out doses that would fit his size. The vitamin shoppe has dog specific fish oils. I know some of the people here use nordic naturals. You could use them independently. I use human fish oil & glucosamine in seperate forms. Here’s a site that might help, it’s Dogaware:
http://www.dogaware.com/health/arthritissupps.html

[Stefanie K]

Looks like Alaska Naturals Salmon Oil with Glucosamine & Chondroitin has been discontinued, as mentioned. Too bad, would have been what I was looking for!

I’ve noticed glucosamine products saying things like “consult your vet if history of urinary tract stones”. My vet suggested I add a glucosamine product, but he’s not the vet who dealt with my dog’s bladder stones and surgery (I was living out of province with my dog at the time), so maybe it slipped his mind when he made the suggest. I will call my vet to make sure again that its safe before I give my dog anything.

[Carrie K]

Thank you for the feedback! We’re trying some different things (wet food topper, adding yogurt to one meal a day, etc), so I hope that will help her stop eating poop, and will hopefully stop the UTIs that led to the bladder stones we discovered (I posted about those in a different thread). I appreciate all the help!

[Anonymous]

Maybe try a limited ingredient food? My dog that has allergies/food sensitivities does well on Nutrisca salmon and chickpea, my old guy with a history of bladder stones does well on Wysong senior (soaked in water overnight).

I also cook up a little lean meat (chicken or beef) and add some to the kibble, add water to the kibble even if you soak it first.

Or consider homemade http://www.homeovet.net/dynamic/php/downloads/dog-c8470f2c75dbe4b683205c3919ee2310/dog_diet_complete.pdf

[Carrie K]

I wrote before about an issue with my shepherd mix having with frequent UTIs, and I just brought her back to the vet after seeing yet more blood in her urine. They did an x-ray and found that she has four large stones in her bladder, and the vet said she had to have a prescription food (Hills, of course, which I’ve always blasted against) to dissolve them. If it will help her get better and not be in pain anymore, I suppose I’d be willing to feed it for a VERY short time. However, the vet also mentioned that she’d “have to be on a prescription diet for the rest of her life,” which I can only take to mean that they’re hoping to continue selling this crap to us for the foreseeable future.

My question is this: is there a resource where I can get a second opinion on this sort of thing (all vets in my area carry Hills, and I have a suspicion they’d all give us the same answer)? I read the ingredients/feeding instructions, and from what I can see, this food is going to starve her of everything she needs to thrive. The first four ingredients are water, corn starch, egg product, and chicken fat, for goodness sake! It also has an AAFCO statement that it’s only intended for intermittent or supplemental feeding. So what now??

[Kirsten W]

After reading everyone’s stories and gaining some advice, I thought I would share Luna’s story. Luna is a 2yr 10month old cavachon, in January she was taken for emergency surgery for bladder stones. One was stuck in her urethra and she was rushed to a specialist after 4 days of not being able to go for a wee after her op, they were constantly having to drain her bladder poor thing. Since then she has had 2 UTI’s and it seems like she is constantly on antibiotics, today she is going back for treatment of another possible UTI. We were advised to out her on Hills c/d food which she hates and I don’t blame her! So we have switched her back to her pate which has high moisture levels and the hills biscuit. Her last urine sample showed she still had crystals and the vets don’t seem to know how to get rid of these, after reading everyone’s comments on this page, I am going to ask my vet today about cranberry capsules and vitamin C. I will do anything for her to not have these stones again as one was the size of a large peanut and she is only a small dog. They removed over 25 total and we know she had passed 3. It was the worst time of my life seeing her in so much pain, to the point where she nipped me when I touched her Fter she tried to wee and rolled on her back in pain. So glad I have insurance on her as the operation and days following would have cost £7000 each round of urine tests and antibiotics is costing me £80 every 4-6 weeks.
Is there anything else people can suggest? She has water put in her food plus water all, day and constant access to the garden.
Thank you

[Kirsten W]

My little Luna had surgery in January to remove over 24 bladder stones. Two got stuck in her urethra and she had to go to a specialist to remove them. Since then she has had 3 possible UTI’s which the vet gives antibiotics for. She is on Hills’s c/d biscuit with encore pate (only way she will eat hills food). Her last urine sample showed crystals, I really don’t want her to have another op and am at a loose end with her constantly on antibiotics costing me around £80 a go! She is only 2yrs 10months and a bichon/cavalier, can someone recommend something else? I have read about giving cranberry and vitamin C capsules? I have also seen that diet food doesn’t help. Any advice would be greatly appreciated!!!!

[Kirsten W]

Luna is nearly 3, in January she had bladder stone surgery with severe complications and had to be referred to the specialist for an additional operation. It was one of the worst times in my life! She has since had 2 UTI’s and now a possible 3rd. Her last urine sample showed she still had crystals in her urine, she is currently on Hills c/d biscuit with encore pate, she wouldn’t eat the canned Hills food. I am so worried she is going to get struvite stones again! Can anyone suggest something else for her?

[JeffreyT]

Dori..I am very sorry to hear about your son.
I would consider Standard Process as my maltese gets older..especially after seeing how well your beautiful maltese is doing at 16 years…inspirational really.

And Lazaro, I feed mostly commercial raw and give a whole food multi every other day and give joint support on alternate days. I rotate between Mercola, Dr. Peter Tobias, Nature’s Farmacy, Animal Essentials and Wholistic Pet Organics. All these companies focus on whole foods, use a lot of certified organic ingredients and limit gmo’s.

I also give enzymes/probioitcs with meals, fish oil and ubiquinol most days, and bladder support every other day for my maltese prone to stones.

Here is Dr. Karen Becker explaining the importance of Spirugreen…Mercola’s pet multi.
http://products.mercola.com/healthypets/spirugreen/

[JeffreyT]

Hi Jakes Mom, the current companies in my rotation I trust are Mercola, Animal Essentials, Dr. Peter Tobias, Wholistic Pet Organics and Nature’s Farmacy. Mercola, Animal Essentials and Wholistic Pet Organics do 3rd party testing. Dr. Peter Tobias offers certified organic products and sells other companies products that do 3rd party testing. And Nature’s Farmacy has a Guaranteed Analysis label. All these companies focus on whole food supplements, use a lot of certified organic ingredients and limit gmo’s.

Nature’s Farmacy was started years ago by serious show people. They have an all in one product that combines joint support, multi vitamin, omegas, digestive enzymes and probioitcs for those who want easy. I also love their Cornucopia powder blend of organic veggies and fruits….great stuff for anti-cancer prevention, and can be given as part of the ground veggies in homemade diets or added to any pet food to increase nutrition.

I keep up with the peer reviewed studies in Mercola and Dr. Karen Becker’s newsletters..so I believe the supplements I give help prevent disease and increase vitality and energy. I think two of the most important ones are digestive enzymes and probiotics, given in most meals. Every day they get Mercola’s Ubiquinol for heart disease prevention and healthy gums and also fish oil every day..rotating bottles between Mercola Krill, Nordic Naturals Pet, Animal Essentials capsules and New Chapter.

They get a multi vitamin/mineral every other day, and on alternate days, light joint support, rotating brands.

My 5 year old maltese gets bladder support every other day because she is prone to stones.

As they get older I will add more of Mercola’s products like eye support, mushrooms and liver/kidney support, and Animal Essentials herbs like Cardiovascular support,etc….rotating them probably. I also wouldn’t hesitate to use Standard Process, Thorne or Orthomolecular Specialtes to target specific issues as they age.

I recently learned about a cleanse recommended on Dr. Peter Tobias’ website using Livton Medi-Herb…he suggests twice a year for two months…makes sense to me. His site is awesome. I learned about it on DFA…another awesome place for info.

[Anonymous]

It depends on the specific problems of the individual dog. Remember supplements and food are not medication, so at best, it’s hit or miss. They don’t have to be regulated by the FDA

I like to add fish oil and glucosamine to my old guy’s water soaked kibble because he shows signs of arthritis and has dry skin, potassium citrate, because he has a history of bladder stones.

To get specific advice and dose recommendations, I would consult a homeopathic vet.
Otherwise, it’s just a guessing game, or see a veterinarian that specializes in geriatric issues, there may be prescription medication that can keep your seniors comfortable.

PS: I have never given milk thistle to my pets, I took it myself once years ago, I forget why…but I think it made me sick…

[Anonymous]

“I believe she is drinking plenty. How do I know how much she needs”?

I thought you were asking about the fish oil. As long as you observe the dog going to the water dish occasionally, and there is some moisture in the food, it’s probably okay.
I have a dog that never went to the water dish and he developed bladder stones, so I add water to his food.
I add a little water to my other dogs meals now too, maybe a splash or 1/4 cup….just to be sure.
Of course, they may need more bathroom breaks, what goes in must come out.

[Sherrie J]

My 3 year old puggle just had surgery on Thursday to remove bladder stones. They said they extracted close to 100, which made me feel terrible. It wasn’t until she was throwing up that there was any indication that she was ill. Now the vet wants to put her on the Hill’s CD prescription food. When I inquired if there were any other more natural means, I was met with a great deal of contention and was flat out told “no”. While the food is a great deal more expensive, I obviously do not want my pup to ever have to go through this again. My issue is that the i see little nutrition listed on the ingredient list. She has been eating dry Diamond Naturals brand since she was a puppy. In the past couple days I have been doing much research on alternative treatments. Just wondering if anyone else has had issues with stones and how they may have homeopathly treated. My dog has never been fed corn, soy or animal by product and I just can’t conceive paying triple for fillers.

[Anonymous]

I use the human kind, or the pet kind when I find a good deal, omega-3 1000mg-1500mg?.
I have been taking krill oil every day myself, 500mg or 1000mg/depends on the brand….anyway I have been thinking about giving my dogs 1 tab a day instead of the other stuff. I have heard good things.
It is supposed to help with a multitude of things, including dry skin, pruritis. I think it helps my dog with allergies.
Two meals a day is fine. Always have fresh water available. I add water because my old guy was not drinking enough and developed bladder stones. I load him up with water and the stones have not come back. But, you are right, I have to take him out for bathroom breaks every 2 hours.

PS: She’s a beauty! Doesn’t look her age, at all.
At present my dogs are all on Sundown Naturals fish oil 1200mg that I picked up at the drugstore on sale.

[Anonymous]

How about adding some fish oil once a day? My 14 almost 15 yr old peke has shown improvement on Wysong Senior, he even lost a couple of pounds (gradually over a few months) He gets a little chicken or meat mixed in too, I feed him 4 small meals a day and soak his kibble, I also add water to his meals (hx of bladder stones)

PS: Nutrisca salmon and chickpea is potato and grain free, my other dogs like this and I was going to put my old guy on it, but he is doing so well on the Wysong, I think I’ll keep him on it.
I don’t analyze the ingredients and information on the packages, because I figure just like with people food, they lie, use different names for similar ingredients. I do pay attention to the reputation of the company and reviews and what veterinarians have to say, and of course how well my dogs do on the food.

[Anonymous]

My dog had struvite and calcium oxalate stones. The only tip I have for you is add water to his food, take him out for frequent bathroom breaks, keep the bladder flushed.
Check Wysong, they have a good selection, plus a prescription food. Not cheap, but good quality. Ask your vet if it’s an option: http://www.wysong.net/veterinarian/
Wysong Rx Urinary™ (kidney, urinary health, and struvite)
(Replaces: Nephreon™, Uratrar™, and Struvatrol™)

Ask your vet about potassium citrate tablets?

[hogrider]

Hi all, new to this forum.
Our rescue pitbull mix just had surgery to remove a stone blocking his urethra.
They removed multiple other stones and sandy grit from his bladder.
After the samples were sent away for analysis it came back as amonium urate crystals.
They recommended Hills U.D., after some research I have seen alot of negatives with this prescription diet food, not to mention the excessively high price.
For now we have switched him to Natures Recipe Vegetarian diet, still very high in protein but not the animal protiens they are telling me cause his type of stone.
The family vet is being very helpful to find a cost effective diet plan and possible supplements.
They are saying he can still have some meat in his diet but most foods, prescription or not are almost always chicken based. He is allergic to chicken.
Anyone else deal with this and have experience they can share?

[Anonymous]

I have a 14+ year old small breed, he needed emergency surgery 3 years ago for bladder stones.
He is stable now, but I agree with Jennifer, frequent bathroom breaks. My guy is doing well on Wysong senior, I soak the kibble in water. He gets 4 small meals per day.
I want to keep him comfortable….so far, so good. He sleeps a lot, but still appears to still enjoy his time outside in the yard. There is nothing wrong with his appetite, he does have an occasional accident…..but only when I forget to take him out every 2 hours.
I’m glad you went to the vet.
PS: He has trouble walking, sometimes I have to carry him outside. He has good days and bad days.

[Phil L]

I have an eight-year old Welsh Terrier that has a history of both pancreatitis and calcium oxalate bladder stones. He’s been on several Science Diet Prescription Dog foods, like W/D Dry and I/D Low Fat Canned, and neither have prevented either the stones or the pancreatitis. Most experts say the food treatment for one condition is diametrically opposed to the food treatment for the other. One post I read suggested mixing Evangers Chicken and Rice Canned with Wellness Core Low Fat Dry. Evangers food is not the Editors’ Choice List, but Wellness Core Reduced Fat is. Does anyone have a suggestion to replace the Evangers, or does anyone have a completely different suggestion for a food or foods that would be okay for both conditions? Thanks in advance!

[Anonymous]

If he has struvite crystals in his urine, even though they have not formed stones, they are as sharp as glass and can irritate and inflame the bladder. Struvite is usually caused by infection, hence the antibiotic treatment.
Read through the posts in this thread and see what applies to your situation.

If you are not happy with the way things are going with the traditional veterinarians, consider consulting a homeopath…. http://theavh.org/

Distance is not an issue, many of them do phone consults.

PS: I would not stop any antibiotic treatment that has been started without talking to the prescribing veterinarian first.
Maybe he can explain the different opinions, and his rationale for treatment. Ask him for a diagnosis. Struvite or calcium oxalate? Ask him if there is a genetic component.
Another option, if you want to stay with the traditional veterinarians, ask for a referral to a specialist…

[Robin S]

Needing any advice. My 5 month old male lab is on 4th round of antibiotics for UTI with crystals.(I think). The reason I say this is that after 3 rounds of Clavamox and Science Diet c/d with symptoms reappearing, he is now on Baytril and Science Diet s/d for 2 weeks. He had an xray which showed no stones in the bladder but has crystals in urine, according to the first vet. I have $700 in medical costs with this vet as of today for this UTI. So, I thought I would get a second opinion as I am lucky enough to have 2 veterinarians in my small town. The second vet did a direct draw of urine from the bladder (we had been doing just a catch while he urinated with the other U/A’s) The second vet could not do a culture as I had just started the Baytril so would have to wait until he is off of it for 5 days before she could do a culture. She did ultrasound him and found everything was looking good. She did say his bladder was large and not irritated ( I guess bladders shrink up a bit with UTI’s?). She also did blood work which looked good. She did not find crystals and does not feel that he has a UTI. Now doesn’t that just boggle the mind? My puppy had only had 2 doses of the Baytril and about a can and a half of the s/d so she didn’t feel that things could have been cured that fast. The thing that just slays me is whenever he is not on antibiotics, he turns into a peeing machine, with no bladder control, clear urine, it doesn’t color a paper towel. The longer he is off antibiotics the worse it gets. A previously good puppy where housetraining is concerned suddenly lowers his head starts to walk and pees a streak all the way to the door and out! So if he doesn’t have a UTI (remember one vet says he does have a UTI) what condition would respond to antibiotics that is not a UTI and make the symptoms stop? The second vet said I had two options, I could either finish out the other vets prescription of Baytril and Science Diet s/d and wait 5 days and come in and she will direct draw urine and retest and culture it then if need be, or I could stop the Baytril and wait 5 days and do the direct draw and retest and culture. I am baffled by two very differenct diagnosis. I decided for now to go ahead and do the first vets prescription as I have the Baytril and the s/d and the second vet set it wouldn’t hurt anything to try it. I am aware, however, that Baytril is not recommended for young dogs, but the vet said one round would be okay. Anyway, sorry to be so long on this, but as you can read I am at a loss on this. Any insight would be appreciated.

[Robin S]

Needing any advise. My 5 month old male lab is on 4th round of antibiotics for UTI with crystals.(I think). The reason I say this is that after 3 rounds of Clavamox and Science Diet c/d with symptoms reappearing, he is now on Baytril and Science Diet s/d for 2 weeks. He had an xray which showed no stones in the bladder but has crystals in urine, according to the first vet. I have $700 in medical costs with this vet as of today for this UTI. So, I thought I would get a second opinion as I am lucky enough to have 2 veterinarians in my small town. The second vet did a direct draw of urine from the bladder (we had been doing just a catch while he urinated with the other U/A’s) The second vet could not do a culture as I had just started the Baytril so would have to wait until he is off of it for 5 days before she could do a culture. She did ultrasound him and found everything was looking good. She did say his bladder was large and not irritated ( I guess bladders shrink up a bit with UTI’s?). She also did blood work which looked good. She did not find crystals and does not feel that he has a UTI. Now doesn’t that just boggle the mind? My puppy had only had 2 doses of the Baytril and about a can and a half of the s/d so she didn’t feel that things could have been cured that fast. The thing that just slays me is whenever he is not on antibiotics, he turns into a peeing machine, with no bladder control, clear urine, it doesn’t color a paper towel. The longer he is off antibiotics the worse it gets. A previously good puppy where housetraining is concerned suddenly lowers his head starts to walk and pees a streak all the way to the door and out! So if he doesn’t have a UTI (remember one vet says he does have a UTI) what condition would respond to antibiotics that is not a UTI and make the symptoms stop? The second vet said I had two options, I could either finish out the other vets prescription of Baytril and Science Diet s/d and wait 5 days and come in and she will direct draw urine and retest and culture it then if need be, or I could stop the Baytril and wait 5 days and do the direct draw and retest and culture. I am baffled by two very differenct diagnosis. I decided for now to go ahead and do the first vets prescription as I have the Baytril and the s/d and the second vet set it wouldn’t hurt anything to try it. I am aware, however, that Baytril is not recommended for young dogs, but the vet said one round would be okay. Anyway, sorry to be so long on this, but as you can read I am at a loss on this. Any insight would be appreciated.

[Anonymous]

http://www.marvistavet.com/html/body_canine_struvite_bladder_stones.html

“Struvite stones form in urine with a high pH (alkaline urine), diets should help to maintain a low pH (acidic urine). Diets with animal-based protein sources are most important in maintaining an acidic pH, while
vegetarian or cereal-based diets are more likely to cause and alkaline urine”.

“With Calcium Oxalate stones, a high protein diet can cause stones by increasing calcium in the urine. It lowers urinary pH and can increase uric acid. High quantities of animal protein can contribute to stone formation by increasing urinary calcium and oxalic acid excreting and by decreasing urinary citric acid excretion”.

“You should increase your dog’s water consumption to help dilute the urine. You can do this by adding water to your dog’s food, it should look like wet mush. Avoid table scraps when caring for an oxalate stone-forming dog”.

“Depending on the kind of stone, you either want more, or less protein, and lower in fat (3 -8%). Be sure to check with your veterinarian before changing your dog’s diet”.

[Anonymous]

Check the reviews for Solid Gold…..I believe they changed their formula recently.

I’m sticking with Nutrisca (as a base) for now, it works for my dogs.
If you look hard enough you will find something you don’t like about all the brands of dog food.
The only thing left would be a homemade diet. As it is, I do 1/2 kibble and1/2 homemade.
My dog with the history of bladder stones continues to do well on Wysong (senior), but when I run out, he’s going on Nutrisca (salmon) too.
Easier and cost effective for me to go with one brand.

[Anonymous]

Anytime you make a change in their diet they may have loose stools/diarrhea.
Unless it’s severe, I would give it a day or two, or three.

Some of those small breeds tend to develop bladder stones….so I would add water to her meals and choose her diet accordingly, high quality kibble, homemade, or a combination.
http://www.homeovet.net/dynamic/php/downloads/dog-c8470f2c75dbe4b683205c3919ee2310/dog_diet_complete.pdf

I like Wysong or Nutrisca (fish) as a dry food base. I have used Wellness in the past, my neighbor likes Fromm’s for her picky eater….I’m sure there are other good brands too.

[Anonymous]

The test results (ph levels) will fluctuate, I find 4 small meals with water added, instead of 2 regular meals is helpful.
Potassium citrate/cranberry tablets (if your vet approves), as I mentioned before, I give my 15 pound dog 4 tabs per day. This is what I use. http://www.entirelypets.com/k-plus-potassium-citrate-plus-cranberry-300-tabs.html?cmp=nextag&mr:referralID=2b34b4bd-6c95-11e2-b779-001b2166c62d

Offer frequent bathroom breaks, keep things flowing, you don’t want urine to stay in the bladder longer than it has to. Stones form in stagnant conditions.
These things have worked for my dog, I make sure he doesn’t have difficulty urinating, good amount and normal flow.

I keep his diet simple, grain free kibble, he likes Wysong, with a little cooked chicken or lean meat added. I soak his kibble in water overnight in the fridg so it is like wet food.

I have not complied with the recommended testing and x-rays (this may be an error on my part). But he looks comfortable to me. He is 14+ years old so I’m not sure he could tolerate another surgery anyway.
Good luck.

[ashley a]

Thanks, I did call and ask about the D-mannose and was told it was fine to give. My vet did not give her the shots she was in for when we went in Feb because of her temp, however I was told at the apt she has on Friday she can get her shots because the bacteria is gone from her urine and she is fever free. I will ask about what kind of crystals she has, all the vet said on the phone was she had crystals but they expect to see that with a UTI, then last week that the bacteria was gone but the crystals had doubled. She has not been spayed yet and I don’t think she is going in heat. The issue started a couple days before she turned 4mo old and she is only 5mo now, her mother didn’t go into heat until almost a year. I am willing to try another food if that is an issue, she was on Iams large breed puppy when I got her but her stools were really soft and she was having very bad gas/licking herself a lot. Those issues all cleared up when I switched her to taste of the wild. I do feel like she drinks a lot of water, I joke that she drinks like a horse, but that is to be expected given her breed. The vet did say it is unlikely that she has stones given her age but that she wants to do the bladder xray because of the amount of crystals she has. I just feel like I am listening more then asking and I don’t want to miss anything. We have spent over $600 in vet bills since Jan, of course I will pay whatever needs to be paid for her health I just feel it is time I also start researching. Topanga is acting normal/happy and doing great but she has recently started dribbling pee again when she sleeps 🙁 Her temp is still normal though so I am hoping that means the UTI hasn’t returned. We see the vet again fri afternoon.

[Anonymous]

I mentioned in 2 previous posts in this thread what has helped my dog, he has not had a recurrence in in 4 years and is 14 years old. He had a uti, was treated and then ultrasound revealed both type of stones, he required emergency surgery.

Your dog seems kind of young for this problem. Ask the vet if she is at risk due to her breed? Was she spayed recently? Is this a complication of that surgery? The UTIs, vaginitis? Is she going into heat?
Ask if potassium citrate/cranberry tablets would help?

Increased water, add it to the food is a must, my dog laps it up to get to the food (4 small meals per day). Frequent bathroom breaks, keep things flowing.
Ask the vet if she has struvite or calcium oxalate stones? Or both? An ultrasound is a good idea.
http://www.marvistavet.com/html/body_canine_struvite_bladder_stones.html

“Struvite stones form in urine with a high pH (alkaline urine), diets should help to maintain a low pH (acidic urine). Diets with animal-based protein sources are most important in maintaining an acidic pH, while
vegetarian or cereal-based diets are more likely to cause and alkaline urine”.

“With Calcium Oxalate stones, a high protein diet can cause stones by increasing calcium in the urine. It lowers urinary pH and can increase uric acid. High quantities of animal protein can contribute to stone formation by increasing urinary calcium and oxalic acid excreting and by decreasing urinary citric acid excretion”.

“Your should increase your dog’s water consumption to help dilute the urine. You can do this by adding water to your dog’s food, it should look like wet mush. Avoid table scraps when caring for an oxalate stone-forming dog”.

“Depending on the kind of stone, you either want more, or less protein, and lower in fat (3 -8%). Be sure to check with your veterinarian before changing your dog’s diet”.

PS: Vaccinations should only be given to healthy dogs.
http://vitalanimal.com/vaccinations-consider-carefully/

• This reply was modified 10 years, 9 months ago by Anonymous.

[ashley a]

Hi, I could use some advice, I will try to keep the background info as short as possible. I have a great dane puppy she is currently 5mo old. She has had green discharge when she pees from the time I brought her home at 12wks old. At her first vet apt in Jan the vet was fine with the discharge and called it normal puppy Vaginitis. In between her Jan and Feb vet appts I noticed she was peeing more and having some accidents but since she was a puppy and otherwise acting normal I didn’t think anything of it. On Feb 5th we went to the vet for a round of shots, the vet saw she had a temp of 103, that plus the pee accidents and green discharge made the vet treat for a UTI, she started a 1wk course of Clavamox, shortly after starting she started leaking pee while sleeping. We went back at the end of of the week and she still had a temp so the vet did a urinalysis and ordered another 2wks of Clavamox, urinalysis showed bacteria and crystals but the vet said she expected to see them with a UTI and would retest at the end of the 2wks. And the end of the two weeks we went back to the vet they didn’t take her temp but saw she still had green discharge and decided to do another 2wks of clavamox and another urinalysis. That urinalysis showed no bacteria but her crystals had doubled. So now the Vet wants her on Cosiquin and wants a bladder xray to rule out stones, though she says stones are unlikely given my dogs age. I ordered D-mannose already and started that today. She eats Taste of the wild dog food and gets wet food twice a day. We go back to the vet on Friday for the bladder xray, is there anything I should ask, anything else I could be doing? My girl is otherwise thriving, she hasn’t had pee accidents in about two weeks, she eats and drinks great. I take her out every 2hrs during the day and at night at 10pm then again at 3am and 5am. Thanks for any advice or questions I should be asking at the vet.

[Anonymous]

My dog had surgery for both type of bladder stones 4 years ago, I give him potassium citrate plus cranberry 4 tabs per day (he weighs 15 pounds).
I keep his diet simple, he does well on a little Wysong dry mixed with cooked chicken or beef or salmon. He has 4 small meals per day, I add water (about 1/2 cup) to all his meals except his bedtime snack.
I take him out to urinate about every 2 hours during the day…..the stones have not returned. He is 14 years old. I have not complied with the vet’s recommendation of frequent checking of urine ph levels or x-rays. Of course if I observe any difficulty urinating, I will take him right in.

[crazy4cats]

Hi Janie-
While I have no experience with dogs with gallbladder issues. In fact, I didn’t know they could have them! I ended up having my gallbladder removed a few years ago. I had about 5 or 6 “attacks” and couldn’t deal with it anymore. It is so painful. Does your dog have stones as well? My issues started after a fairly significant weight loss and then a VERY fatty meal one night. My best guess would be to keep the fat at a minimum with your dog and avoid any type of quick weight loss. I would definitely cut back on the salmon oil. Check the labels on the canned food before you feed. Many of them are packed with fat! I also would feed the prescription food and give the gallbladder a rest for a bit. Like Susan mentioned above, there are 3 or four brands of prescription dog foods that you could check out and work with your vet to choose the best one. And then maybe slooowly transition to a regular dog food, sticking with a low fat variety.

I tend to use lower fat foods as well as I have two large neutered male labs that tend to get chubby. I have fed Nutrisource senior, California Natural grain free pork, and there is also a weight management/senior Victor food that I may try that are all lower fat while maintaining a decent amount of protein.

Good luck with your dog. Let us know how it turns out. Poor thing!

[Dori]

Aimee.
Sorry, I must learn to thoroughly read original posts. I sometimes skim read and I just focused on the part of the dog having stones. I thought he was asking for help with a diet for a dog that has or had stones.

Tom. I agree with you completely on the ingredients in the foods that vets prescribe. I understand that there may be some animals out there that will benefit from them but I’ve had many dogs in my life and have never come across one of them needing one of those diets. Not to say that I haven’t been asked by vets to feed one or another of them through the years. I just politely let them know that I appreciate their advice and I’ll think about it. This vet that I’ve had for 13 years knows that I feed commercial raw diets so none of the vets in the practice or the techs ask me anymore what I feed my dogs. Dr. Susan Wynn is a nutritionist that has seen my 15 1/2 year old Maltese when she was diagnosed with very high liver levels, then a tumor in her bladder and then a mass on the lobe of one of her lungs. All those were discovered early last Spring. At that point Dr. Wynn suggested that I put Hannah on Nature’s Variety Instinct Raw Diet because it is HPP and if Hannah’s immune system was working hard with all that was going on with her she didn’t want her to be exposed to any unnecessary bacteria. I feed a rotational diet with all three of my dogs and Nature’s Variety Instinct Raw Food was already in their diets. I continued to keep with my rotational feeding of commercial raw foods as I have for the last three years. Some are HPP and some are not. Actually most are not. Typically poultry is what is put under HPP and I don’t feed any poultry because one of my girls is highly intolerant of all fowl. I also don’t feed white potatoes or any night shade plants because they are pro inflammatory. April will be a year that she was diagnosed. To the delight of all, she remains asymptomatic to bladder or lung cancer. Her liver levels are back down in the normal range. (The elevated liver levels were discovered in last Spring’s blood work during her annual physical which is what started the initial visit to Georgia Veterinary Specialists where Dr. Wynn practices and was one of her doctors). I did add a few supplements to Hannah’s diet manufactured by Standard Process. She is regularly monitored and her blood work comes back normal. Her titers are all really good also. Her vet and I decided last year that due to the cancer only titers will be done for her for the rest of her life which I pray is for many many more years. Hannah is the picture in my avatar that was taken last year.

[Bridget A]

My Cairn was recently diagnosed with small kidney and bladder stones. We are going to try dissolving them by special diet. Vet recommended Hill’s Prescription Diet Canned food. Can you recommend another nutritionally comparably BRAND and also, a dry food that is grain and white potato free that is low in carbs?

[PugMaster]

I’m actually going through this now with one of our 3 Pugs. She (Waffles) is 4 and I noticed that she was having to go pee allot and asking to go out allot. Took her in and she had Bladder Stones, one the size of a marble!

She had surgery to have the stones removed and everything cleaned out. Still waiting on the report back from the LAB as to what kind of stones these were, but the Vet recommended putting her on Royal Canin SO.

At first I had no issues with this at all as it promised to keep things clear etc… After she started on it I noticed that she was getting sick a couple times and was constipated. Mind you this was after the pain medication which I know can cause constipation etc…

I’ve switched her to Merrick’s canned food and have been adding warm water to this as well.

Other than the reasons I’ve listed above, I’ve done allot of research on the Royal Canin SO and apparently they have changed their ingredients from ‘chicken’ to ‘chicken meal’ as well as adding other things such as ‘soy’.

From what I’ve read so far, this isn’t the best and allot of people are very upset with the change and have noticed a difference of some sort with their pets that have been on the SO food for a long period of time to the new food with the changes in it.

I was going to look at the Science Diet UD food, but it sounds like this isn’t the greatest either.

At this point, I’m looking at a couple of the more holistic approaches such as adding some natural things as mentioned in other posts such as, cranberry etc…

[Karen J]

Yes the vet said no infection or stones just crystals. I’d really rather not have her puddling because that means her bladder must be stopped up until the crystal dissolves and it’s too late to get outside. That’s got to be uncomfortable.

Maybe I should switch to raw. As soon as I found out about the Wellness I cut it down, whew, her little farts filled the room. I started mixing the lamb Wellness – she just loves it -so she doesn’t get too much of it but still eats the kibble with the Stella and Chewy mixed in. I haven’t seen her this excited since I brought her home from the rescue place (she was 4 months old now she is a year).

I think I’ll take her for a second opinion but what are some good raw foods to feed her?

[theBCnut]

Are you maybe giving too many treats? She looks like a very small dog. If she is still pooping, she is still eating. Try cutting out the treats for a couple days. And try cutting back on the amount of supplements, in case they are decreasing her appetite. If her eating doesn’t pick up then, changing foods again may be what you need to do. My dogs didn’t like BB when I tried it, but that was years ago. Personally, I’ve heard too many stories of dogs getting bladder stones on it for me to want to feed it to a dog with crystals.

[crazy4cats]

Hi All-
I’ve had a very rough couple of weeks. My Casper kitty somehow ended up with a urinary tract blockage. He jumped up on the bathroom counter and then tried to pee in the sink and failed and started crying a bit. He’s an extremely quiet cat, so I knew something was very wrong. He then started licking himself frantically. I had already had him to the vet as he had only been peeing in small amounts recently. He had some crystals and blood in his urine, so was put on antibiotics and prescription food that he wouldn’t eat. I took him to a walk in clinic and they took an X-ray which showed no stones, but they could not express his bladder so they deemed him blocked and catheterized him. I took him home with a catheter and brought him back the next morning. We did that another day as well. His bladder was having spasms and still couldn’t pee. They kept prescribing different muscle relaxers and pain meds to try to combat the spasms. I got fed up and took him to a fancy emergency hospital. They told me they had to redo the procedure “correctly” or should be euthanized. They are extremely expensive, but I couldn’t pull the plug. There was not a guarantee it would work as his bladder had been stretched out and damaged. he stayed there for 2 1/2 days. I got to visit him, however. Well, hooray, he’s been home for a week now on relaxers and prescription food. Doing pretty well. I have to keep him isolated to monitor his output, which is very difficult with three other cats and two dogs. So far so good. The prescription food looks hoerrible, but the vets swear by it. I’m afraid to take him off as I don’t want to go through this again! I was very surprised that he ended up with this condition as he eats canned food with every meal. After reading more, I’ve come to the conclusion that stress might be involved as well. So in conclusion, keep an eye on your kitties output. And, please take them to a reputable animal hospital if you have a serious concern! Also, keep feeding canned to keep those tracts cleared out. As I write this, my heart is very heavy as there was a terrible school shooting about 50 miles due north of us yesterday. When will this madness stop!

[pugmomsandy]

Here’s a few articles:

http://healthypets.mercola.com/sites/healthypets/archive/2013/09/09/struvite-stones.aspx

http://healthypets.mercola.com/sites/healthypets/archive/2012/01/03/fish-as-a-protein-source.aspx

Found this in the above article: “Last but not least, the magnesium content in fish has been linked to urinary tract diseases in cats. A diet overloaded with the mineral magnesium can predispose your kitty to magnesium ammonium phosphate crystals, also known as MAP crystals or struvite crystals. Crystals are a big problem for many, many cats.” Maybe geared more towards cats that eat alot of fish.

http://products.mercola.com/healthypets/bladder-health-for-pets/

This is the test strip I buy: http://www.amazon.com/PH-TEST-TAPE-Acid-Alkaline/dp/B0001SR4NM/ref=sr_1_2?s=hpc&ie=UTF8&qid=1413557089&sr=1-2&keywords=urine+ph+test+strips

[pugmomsandy]

For struvites, I used to add Wysong Biotic pH- to my dogs’ meals. Also, I started feeding at least 50% wet food (canned, raw, dehydrated) or at least add water to the kibble. Rarely do they eat something dry. Now I just use methionine rotating with another bladder support product containing cranberry and d-mannose. Mine never developed stones or UTI’s. I also periodically test with urine pH test strips at home. One of the vets actually suggested 500 mg vitamin C daily. I have small dogs.

• This reply was modified 11 years, 3 months ago by pugmomsandy.

[Johnnie W]

What is the best food for miniature schnauzers? We are getting a new puppy and do not want to make a bad choice for her food. We know that schnauzers are prone to getting bladder stones so we want to be sure that the food we choose does not contribute by having ingredients that would be bad for our puppy

[Barbara K]

I’m looking for a premium food which has a high PH and lower oxalate for my 9 year old Havanese who had bladder stones.

[Melissa B]

Hello!

This is my first time posting on this forum and I would greatly appreciate any insight provided on my problem. My fiance and I adopted a three year-old Tibetan Terrier last November. She’s blind and was likely abused in her last home. Almost immediately after adopting her we began to notice issues with incontinence, painful urination, inability to drain her bladder, etc. Fast forward to now, we have spent upwards of $3,000 in tests, surgery, x-rays and prescription food in the discovery and removal of her mixed (struvite/oxylate) bladder stones. After the surgery the vet recommended a permanent diet of Royal Canine SO wet food. Since her stones are mixed, there is no guarantee that they won’t come back, but the vet said this was the best preventative food to give her. However, the ingredients in this food are pretty crappy and I’d prefer to put Delilah on a natural, homemade diet. I’ve done some research on what foods would be best, but there is so much dissension when it comes to the topic (low protein- no HIGH protein, rice- NO rice, etc) that I’m a little lost. Has anyone else dealt with this situation before? Does anyone have any suggestions on what kind of homemade diet would be best for a little pup with mixed bladder stones? Any help would be MUCH appreciated!! 🙂 Thank you!

[Susan]

Hi Small, Patch is a 5 year old English Staffordshire Terrier a little shorty, Patch had an Ultra Scan about 3 weeks ago as he was having his real bad pain on his right side, thats how I went to a new vet, his Ultra Scan came back all good Pancreas looked good, Gall Bladder had no stones, intestines had no thickening but he said its hard to see the whole bowel cause there’s air in the bowel, I got him to look at Patches bladder cause when I got him he was weeing blood & had crystals the rescue vet said probably from being used for breeding & he was desexed, the crystals all diluted but I was just wondered if they had come back, but no, vet said his bladder has no thickening either bladder looked good, so I dont know what’s wrong with him, thats why I think vets say IBD when they dont know whats wrong & I dont want to have Patch cut open & biopsies, I feel that the results will come back all good..the rescue vet said whoever owned him before looks like he had a few homes cause he was Micro chipped as Patch but he never came to that name Patch, so I’d say the last owner never changed his name & didnt update the address on his Micro chip also Id say he was feed a very poor diet probably Pal Pedigree or Purina or Aldi foods..something happened in his past, he’s also a bugger for eating cat poo, I stop him but the neighbours dont clean up any cat poo lying around so I have to have eyes in the back of my head, the new vet said maybe next week put Patch back on the Metronidazole for 2 weeks just incase he has his stomach bacteria back again as his mouth is starting to smell again last December he was put on the Metronidazole & his stinky breath went away maybe he just keeps getiing the H-pylori Bacteria virus that gives you bad stomach acid burning so maybe thats what he’s getting after breakfast thats when he has his pain the worst..