[Lori H]

Hi Simone,

My dog Buddy has been through a lot, much like your dog. He just turned 10 and during his life he has had surgery on his spleen, surgery for bladder stones, been diagnosed with Diabetes and I was told by my vet that he was suffering from liver failure and was preparing me for the fact that Buddy was going to die. The liver failure diagnosis was 10 months ago and today, he is healthy, happy, looks amazing and has so much energy.

I now believe wholeheartedly that most vets know nothing about nutrition. They are told to carry a line of food in their offices by one of the large pharma/dog food companies because most of these companies go out and recruit at the vet universities across the United States when vets are in school and provide them with a kickback when the sell either Science Diet or Royal Canin in their clinics, up to 40%. Don’t get me wrong, I LOVE my vet, I just don’t believe he knows much of anything about nutrition. He has been great to me, my dog Buddy and my three cats. He is good at what he does, diagnose and perform much needed surgeries and procedures. He did Buddy’s bladder stone surgery which has complications.

I was at my wits end as well and thought that I was going to lose Buddy, but I was not willing to give up so I did a Google search and found an amazing person who brought Buddy back to the healthy dog he is.

Buddy is on a very special diet and he has made huge strides in the last 6+ months. He is a very healthy dog to what he was 6 months ago.

I worked with a man named Rick Scheyer. He has an amazing website http://www.doglivershunt.com He has helped many dogs with liver shunt, kidney disease, bladder stone problems and much, much more become healthy dogs again. I would suggest reaching out to him for a free consultation.

If you choose to go with his program, it is not cheap, but I believe that over time, I will save money by not taking Buddy to the vet time and time again because I don’t know what is wrong and having a battery of tests run and racking up bills in the thousands, I have been there!

He was slowly weened off of his processed food Science Diet U/D and placed on a diet of fresh veggies and meat based on a very slow transition to follow with Rick’s help.

Buddy’s diet is a balance of ¾ veggies to ¼ meats. Dogs with liver issues do not need as much protein as you would expect. He gets lots of yellow veggies (squash, tomatoes, peppers, cucumber, celery, carrots, Brussel sprouts, snap peas, etc.) along with hemp oil and nori blended with goat yogurt into almost a smoothie consistency. I then add meats, liver is great as it helps to detoxify the liver (funny that you feed liver to a dog with liver issuesJ) and then he gets a variety of supplements. He receives three gut supplements in the morning (Acidophilus, Bifudus and a Spectrabiotic) along with an Enzyme and something called Whole Body. In the evenings he gets the Enzyme, Whole Body and a Mushroom supplement. The process to make his food is not that time consuming and if you are at your wits end like I was, I was ready to do anything.

He also gets to have as much goat yogurt as he wants with coconut oil. He also gets sweet potato chews and coconut slices.

He is also allowed to eat fruits, not during his morning and evening meals since they digest differently than veggies, but he has not yet warmed up to them yet. I don’t know if he ever will.

He is doing great! He has so much energy and the numbers don’t lie! I got a glucose meter and I am going to start checking his levels daily. I would really like to get him off the insulin if I can. I believe the medicine is what causes the blindness, not the actual diabetes, my vet believes otherwise.

My vet has not said much of anything. I explained I was taking him off the prescription food and putting him on this program and he never responded. When I took him in the last time for blood work, I think he was surprised Buddy was doing so well, but did not ask me further about what I was doing. He is a pretty straight and narrow vet and I don’t think he looks outside the box. If Buddy’s glucose numbers continue to decline, I will take him back and back off on the number of units he is given. Now it is just maintenance and keeping a spreadsheet and monitoring how he is doing.

I suggest reaching out. I think Rick saved Buddy’s life. I took him to the vet in October to have blood work done and he is perfectly healthy!

Let me know if I can be of anymore help.

Good luck on your search and reach out if you have further questions or concerns. It was hard to take the jump and trust someone other than my vet with my dogs nutritional health, but I am so glad that I did.

Lori

[Kay M]

I have a small dog (under 10 lbs) who is prone to bladder stones. Vet has recommended Science Diet formulated for this specific problem, unfortunately it has caused my dog to put on too much weight. I only feed her 1/4 cu. in morning and night but she seems to always be hungry. Any suggestions on a better food that would help with her weight, as well as her stone problem and make her feel full?

[crazy4cats]

Hi Diane S-
Sorry to hear about your pup! As you probably know, the s/d food can only be used short term due to it not being complete and balanced. The c/d food can be fed long term. That being said, they both are formulated to dissolve and prevent struvite stones. Neither work to dissolve the oxalate ones. They cannot be dissolved, only passed or removed.
Are you using the dry or canned prescription food? If not using canned, I’d give it a try. It would add more moisture to the diet which in addition to dissolving helps flush both types of crystals/stones.
Also, Royal Canin has an Rx food for bladder and urinary crystals as well. It has an S/O index which is supposed to help prevent both types of crystals. Maybe your vet would approve of one of their urinary formulas. That is what I feed to my cat with this issue. I also add plenty of canned food to his diet. I know that canned food is expensive, but as we both know, the surgery with an overnight stay cost a lot more!!!
I’m curious, has your dog had urinary tract infections too? If yes, have they been treated with antibiotics?
As was mentioned to you above, try to get as much water and plenty of bathroom breaks as possible to help your pup’s pee diluted. I wish you the best!

[anonymous]

Did you speak to your vet about prescription medication for stubborn cases?
The x-ray, I believe is non-negotiable. It’s very important to rule out bladder stones, calcium oxalate stones don’t dissolve. Dogs can have more than one type of stone. This could explain the reoccurrences
Are you adding water to meals? Frequent bathroom breaks, opportunities to urinate.
Stagnant conditions in the bladder are conducive to stone formation.

See my previous post /forums/topic/dogs-with-struvite-bladder-stones/#post-104899

Most vets offer financing https://www.carecredit.com/vetmed/

[Sherry S]

My schnauzer had bladder stones. After surgery, I started thinking about causes. I gave her tap water. We had hard water. So I switched to filtered water or spring water. Bought by 1/2 gallon in store for $1. She never had issues again. Neither did my male schnauzer. My friend has a Shar Pei. He had crystallized urine. I told her to try the drinking water in the jugs. She did and he hasn’t tested positive ever since.

[Gary W]

you have alternatives to feeding Hill’s Prescription Diet C/d to your dog. First, if you are feeding C/d for struvite crystals and stones, you might just confirm that they are gone with a urinalysis, xrays, and/or ultrasound of the kidneys and urinary bladder.

• This reply was modified 6 years, 2 months ago by Gary W.

[anonymous]

Just looked at Evo on the Chewy site, 42% protein for a kibble doesn’t make any sense to me? It may be too rich and high calorie for the dog.
Avoiding obesity and adequate exercise (walks) also help to decrease the risk of bladder stones.

I would run that by your vet before purchasing (just leave a message for him to call you back when he has a minute)

[anonymous]

@ Lori H

Exactly! Thanks for posting. I went through a similar experience with a dog.
If I could go back I would have taken the dog to the vet sooner than I did…..,

Bladder stones, emergency surgery. 🙁
Despite treatment for urinary tract infections.
X-ray/ultrasound is the only way to rule out bladder stones.

[Lori H]

You might want to take your dog back to the vet to rule out bladder stones. My dog had them and urinated a lot. Diabetes is also a cause for excessive urination. It might be a good idea to get updated blood work and possibly an X-ray on his bladder. My dog ultimately had to have surgery to have the stones removed.

Good luck!

[Lori H]

Hi Paul,

My dog Buddy has been through a lot, much like your dog. He just turned 10 and during his life he has had surgery on his spleen, surgery for bladder stones, been diagnosed with Diabetes and I was told by my vet that he was suffering from liver failure and was preparing me for the fact that Buddy was going to die. The liver failure diagnosis was 6 months ago and today, he is healthy, happy, looks amazing and has so much energy.

I now believe wholeheartedly that most vets know nothing about nutrition. They are told to carry a line of food in their offices by one of the large pharma/dog food companies because most of these companies go out and recruit at the vet universities across the United States when vets are in school and provide them with a kickback when the sell either Science Diet or Royal Canin in their clinics, up to 40%. Don’t get me wrong, I LOVE my vet, I just don’t believe he knows much of anything about nutrition. He has been great to me, my dog Buddy and my three cats. He is good at what he does, diagnose and perform much needed surgeries and procedures. He did Buddy’s bladder stone surgery which has complications.

I was at my wits end as well and thought that I was going to lose Buddy, but I was not willing to give up so I did a Google search and found an amazing person who brought Buddy back to the healthy dog he is.

Buddy is on a very special diet and he has made huge strides in the last 6+ months. He is a very healthy dog to what he was 6 months ago.

I worked with a man named Rick Scheyer. He has an amazing website http://www.doglivershunt.com He has helped many dogs with liver shunt, kidney disease, bladder stone problems and much, much more become healthy dogs again. I would suggest reaching out to him for a free consultation.

If you choose to go with his program, it is not cheap, but I believe that over time, I will save money by not taking Buddy to the vet time and time again because I don’t know what is wrong and having a battery of tests run and racking up bills in the thousands, I have been there!

He was slowly weened off of his processed food Science Diet U/D and placed on a diet of fresh veggies and meat based on a very slow transition to follow with Rick’s help.

Buddy’s diet is a balance of ¾ veggies to ¼ meats. Dogs with liver issues do not need as much protein as you would expect. He gets lots of yellow veggies (squash, tomatoes, peppers, cucumber, celery, carrots, Brussel sprouts, snap peas, etc.) along with hemp oil and nori blended with goat yogurt into almost a smoothie consistency. I then add meats, liver is great as it helps to detoxify the liver (funny that you feed liver to a dog with liver issuesJ) and then he gets a variety of supplements. He receives three gut supplements in the morning (Acidophilus, Bifudus and a Spectrabiotic) along with an Enzyme and something called Whole Body. In the evenings he gets the Enzyme, Whole Body and a Mushroom supplement. The process to make his food is not that time consuming and if you are at your wits end like I was, I was ready to do anything.

He also gets to have as much goat yogurt as he wants with coconut oil. He also gets sweet potato chews and coconut slices.

He is also allowed to eat fruits, not during his morning and evening meals since they digest differently than veggies, but he has not yet warmed up to them yet. I don’t know if he ever will.

He is doing great! He has so much energy and the numbers don’t lie! I got a glucose meter and I am going to start checking his levels daily. I would really like to get him off the insulin if I can. I believe the medicine is what causes the blindness, not the actual diabetes, my vet believes otherwise.

My vet has not said much of anything. I explained I was taking him off the prescription food and putting him on this program and he never responded. When I took him in the last time for blood work, I think he was surprised Buddy was doing so well, but did not ask me further about what I was doing. He is a pretty straight and narrow vet and I don’t think he looks outside the box. If Buddy’s glucose numbers continue to decline, I will take him back and back off on the number of units he is given. Now it is just maintenance and keeping a spreadsheet and monitoring how he is doing.

I suggest reaching out. I think Rick saved Buddy’s life. I took him to the vet in October to have blood work done and he is perfectly healthy!

Let me know if I can be of anymore help.

Good luck on your search and reach out if you have further questions or concerns. It was hard to take the jump and trust someone other than my vet with my dogs nutritional health, but I am so glad that I did.

Lori

[anonymous]

Copied from a previous post:

Also, if the dog is overweight, get the extra weight off, increase walks/exercise/activity.
Work closely with your vet, when the dog has been stable 6 months to 1 year then you can talk about diet changes.
“Dogs that get urinary tract infections and bladder stones tend to have a genetic predisposition, combine that with not enough water intake, not enough opportunities to urinate and you have a problem”.
“Whatever you decide to feed, add water to the kibble or canned food, even presoak and add water. Take out to urinate at least every 4 hours (every 2 hours is ideal) stagnant conditions in the bladder are conducive to bladder stone formation”.
“Always have fresh water available for the dog 24/7”.
“Supplements are crap, don’t waste your money unless your vet recommends something specific for your dog”.
Ps: You think the prescription food is expensive. Try emergency surgery for a blocked urethra.
Been there, done that.

Regarding cranberry: http://skeptvet.com/Blog/?s=cranberry
Also there are prescription meds for stubborn cases, talk to your vet.
Was an ultrasound done? Dogs can have more than one type of stone, such as calcium oxalate and struvite…that was the case with my dog that had reoccurring UTIs.
This is not veterinary advice; consult your veterinarian.
PS: Note recent question on struvite in comments: http://skeptvet.com/Blog/2016/09/science-based-veterinary-nutrition-success-stories/comment-page-1/#comment-121266
Good luck

[anonymous]

First, ask your vet if an x-ray/ultrasound is indicated to rule out bladder stones. Very important in my opinion.

The main things I found helpful was adding water to meals and offering the dog frequent bathroom breaks, opportunities to urinate.

I would go along with the prescription food at least till the dog has been stable for a few months.

[Amy b]

Anon101, I had no idea about the bladder Stones!
So if I start adding stuff to it, then maybe I shouldn’t even switch off the Merrick?

To answer your PS., I switched from beaver dam (which our pup loved) because I wanted him on something better and grain free. My husband thinks we should go back to Beaver Dam or at least switch off of Merrick. Now, when I mixed in canned food at lunch today, he did eat his lunch.

Oh, and yes, I am feeding at the same time everyday. He gets 3 meals a day.

[anonymous]

I would never feed just dry kibble, for one thing the dog could develop bladder stones if he is not a water drinker.
At least pour a spoonful of warm water or plain homemade chicken broth (boiled chicken water nothing added) on it.
Dry kibble alone is not good, no matter how much you pay for it.

PS: I agree with your husband, if the dog is doing well on the food, then why change it?
When you take the dog in for the next scheduled visit see what the vet recommends.

[Lori H]

Hi Deborah,

My dog Buddy has been through a lot, much like your dog. He just turned 10 and during his life he has had surgery on his spleen, surgery for bladder stones, been diagnosed with Diabetes and I was told by my vet that he was suffering from liver failure and was preparing me for the fact that Buddy was going to die. The liver failure diagnosis was 6 months ago and today, he is healthy, happy, looks amazing and has so much energy.

I now believe wholeheartedly that most vets know nothing about nutrition. They are told to carry a line of food in their offices by one of the large pharma/dog food companies because most of these companies go out and recruit at the vet universities across the United States when vets are in school and provide them with a kickback when the sell either Science Diet or Royal Canin in their clinics, up to 40%. Don’t get me wrong, I LOVE my vet, I just don’t believe he knows much of anything about nutrition. He has been great to me, my dog Buddy and my three cats. He is good at what he does, diagnose and perform much needed surgeries and procedures. He did Buddy’s bladder stone surgery which has complications.

I was at my wits end as well and thought that I was going to lose Buddy, but I was not willing to give up so I did a Google search and found an amazing person who brought Buddy back to the healthy dog he is.

Buddy is on a very special diet and he has made huge strides in the last 6+ months. He is a very healthy dog to what he was 6 months ago.

I worked with a man named Rick Scheyer. He has an amazing website http://www.doglivershunt.com He has helped many dogs with liver shunt, kidney disease, bladder stone problems and much, much more become healthy dogs again. I would suggest reaching out to him for a free consultation.

If you choose to go with his program, it is not cheap, but I believe that over time, I will save money by not taking Buddy to the vet time and time again because I don’t know what is wrong and having a battery of tests run and racking up bills in the thousands, I have been there!

He was slowly weened off of his processed food Science Diet U/D and placed on a diet of fresh veggies and meat based on a very slow transition to follow with Rick’s help.

Buddy’s diet is a balance of ¾ veggies to ¼ meats. Dogs with liver issues do not need as much protein as you would expect. He gets lots of yellow veggies (squash, tomatoes, peppers, cucumber, celery, carrots, Brussel sprouts, snap peas, etc.) along with hemp oil and nori blended with goat yogurt into almost a smoothie consistency. I then add meats, liver is great as it helps to detoxify the liver (funny that you feed liver to a dog with liver issuesJ) and then he gets a variety of supplements. He receives three gut supplements in the morning (Acidophilus, Bifudus and a Spectrabiotic) along with an Enzyme and something called Whole Body. In the evenings he gets the Enzyme, Whole Body and a Mushroom supplement. The process to make his food is not that time consuming and if you are at your wits end like I was, I was ready to do anything.

He also gets to have as much goat yogurt as he wants with coconut oil. He also gets sweet potato chews and coconut slices.

He is also allowed to eat fruits, not during his morning and evening meals since they digest differently than veggies, but he has not yet warmed up to them yet. I don’t know if he ever will.

He is doing great! He has so much energy and the numbers don’t lie! I got a glucose meter and I am going to start checking his levels daily. I would really like to get him off the insulin if I can. I believe the medicine is what causes the blindness, not the actual diabetes, my vet believes otherwise.

My vet has not said much of anything. I explained I was taking him off the prescription food and putting him on this program and he never responded. When I took him in the last time for blood work, I think he was surprised Buddy was doing so well, but did not ask me further about what I was doing. He is a pretty straight and narrow vet and I don’t think he looks outside the box. If Buddy’s glucose numbers continue to decline, I will take him back and back off on the number of units he is given. Now it is just maintenance and keeping a spreadsheet and monitoring how he is doing.

I suggest reaching out. I think Rick saved Buddy’s life. I took him to the vet in October to have blood work done and he is perfectly healthy!

Let me know if I can be of anymore help.

Good luck on your search and reach out if you have further questions or concerns. It was hard to take the jump and trust someone other than my vet with my dogs nutritional health, but I am so glad that I did.

Lori

[Robin B]

Yay! He pooped and promptly ate it before I could get the baggie out of my pocket. Thanks everyone for advice & support. Now we only have to deal with crystals & stones (sounds kinda New Age) and bladder control. Checking out until I have news to check in. Following your posts with interest. R

[anonymous]

Wait a minute…..your dog did not have surgery to remove the stones in his bladder.
Okay, the vet is probably hoping they are struvite and will dissolve.
If they don’t (they will x-ray/ultrasound at the re-check appointment) they may be another type of stone that doesn’t dissolve, calcium oxalate for example.

I wondered about the $800, my dog’s emergency surgery was a lot more, they sent the stones off to a lab to be analyzed, otherwise they can’t identify what type they.

That being said, at the 3 month checkup x-ray a couple of new baby calcium oxalate stones had developed already! They never moved around or caused him any trouble, because he was a senior and had other issues we decided not to act aggressively.

[Robin B]

Thx. I’m puzzled because he had crystals in his urethra (catheter flushed) and stones in his bladder. Seen by ultrasound & xray. His urinalysis showed no infection. So we left the emergency hospital with 3 days of painkillers from the procedure & prescription S/D to dissolve stones & 2 week recall to our own vet. If they’re struvite stones, why no infection?
It’s always been hard to get him to take in enough fluids but a weak broth is helping & I’m adding water to his wet food. 24 lb possible schnauzer cross (mini-schnauzers are prone to stones) who appears to be at the right weight for height; gets at least 2 hours on-leash walks per day (divided into 2, 3 or 4 walks depending on weather and life)
For now the water works seem functional but solid waste management is on a Wild-cat strike.

[anonymous]

Also, if the dog is overweight, get the extra weight off, increase walks/exercise/activity.
Work closely with your vet, when the dog has been stable 6 months to 1 year then you can talk about diet changes.
“Dogs that get urinary tract infections and bladder stones tend to have a genetic predisposition, combine that with not enough water intake, not enough opportunities to urinate and you have a problem”.
“Whatever you decide to feed, add water to the kibble or canned food, even presoak and add water. Take out to urinate at least every 4 hours (every 2 hours is ideal) stagnant conditions in the bladder are conducive to bladder stone formation”.
“Always have fresh water available for the dog 24/7”.
“Supplements are crap, don’t waste your money unless your vet recommends something specific for your dog”.
Ps: You think the prescription food is expensive. Try emergency surgery for a blocked urethra.
Been there, done that.
Per the search engine: /forums/search/urinary+tract+infections/
Regarding cranberry: http://skeptvet.com/Blog/?s=cranberry
Also there are prescription meds for stubborn cases, talk to your vet.
Was an ultrasound done? Dogs can have more than one type of stone, such as calcium oxalate and struvite…that was the case with my dog that had reoccurring UTIs.
This is not veterinary advice; consult your veterinarian.

PS: Note recent question on struvite in comments: http://skeptvet.com/Blog/2016/09/science-based-veterinary-nutrition-success-stories/comment-page-1/#comment-121266
Good luck

[Robin B]

I just spent 4 hours and $800 at an after hours emergency veterinary clinic with my rescue mutt. He was unable to pee, straining with leg up for ages, repeat. Then he started leaking in dribbles. This appeared to come on suddenly. Examination, urinalysis, X-ray, ultrasound: struvite crystals in urethra, stones in bladder. He had a catheter flush & sent home with prescription canned Hill’s S/D. It looks disgusting but he will eat it. We’ll see our vet at our regular clinic next week to check for progress on dissolution of crystals & stones.
He had been eating quality kibble ( no grain, limited ingredients etc.) enhanced with Wellness canned food (beef, turkey, chicken, lamb in rotation. Who doesn’t like a little variety?) Good news: we might be closer to guessing his breed combo (a little schnauzer in there, they tend toward this problem) and he started peeing the morning after his procedure & the prescription diet is temporary. Unlike me, he’s not a big drinker and he seems to have a bladder that will hold forever, likely one source of the problem.
So, I think I have deduced the cause: not enough water & infrequent elimination breaks both easily remedied although he only likes to pee on his walks.
My plan is to resume his regular diet when I get the “all clear” from the vet, add water to his kibble/canned meal combo. Introduce vitamin C & cranberry supplement. Offer homemade broth in addition to water to keep him hydrated. (I’m cheating and already making & giving the broth).
My question: do I wait until he is crystal clear before adding supplements & broth to his prescription food?
Your question: I’m new to the journey but hope I’m on the right track, commercial food with quality locally sourced ingredients, combo wet & dry (quality wet alone is too rich for my budget), water or bone broth added to food, lots of water available & broth if pup won’t drink water, frequent opportunity to pee (I think that was our downfall).
Good luck & advice is welcome.

[Lori H]

Hi Ava,

I highly recommend reaching out to the following website: http://www.doglivershunt.com/
Rick is amazing! He answers every question I have ever asked and is very honest. Take a look at his website. I have sent thousands of dollars on my dog over the last few years because of ongoing health concerns (bladder stones, Cushing’s disease, potential liver failure, diabetes) and needed to find someone or something that would get my pup healthy. Rick does this pro-bono and only asks for donations. Buddy has been on his program since late May and from an outward appearance he is a different dog, happy, healthy, good weight, shiny coat, spunky, etc… I had his blood work done in late October and he is now in normal ranges across the board for his liver and kidneys! My vet was preparing me for the fact that he thought my dog was going to die. He was in the first stages of liver failure and there was nothing I could do but sit back and watch and decide when the end was time. I was not willing to do that and I am so happy I found Rick! I was a skeptic at first, believing that my vet knew best, but prescription food is awful and the only reason he prescribes it is because he has no understanding of nutrition for dogs and gets a kickback from Hill’s Science Diet. He is a great vet, but I have learned through this process that he is not in the business of giving nutritional advise, but in the business of seeing an issue and figuring out how to treat it using medication and surgery. A balance of both is key and I have learned they don’t have every answer and personal research is key.

Good luck. If you have questions, you can ask me, or you can reach out to him. He will do a free consultation based on questions answered.

I hope you find answers for Ralf and get him healthy!

Lori

[crazy4cats]

Hi Cherie-

If you are still around, here is another good article that summarizes the different types of stones and recommended treatments.

Dietary treatment of bladder stones

[anonymous]

You’re welcome.
Glad you found my comments helpful. Continue to add water to her meals and offer frequent bathroom breaks, keep the bladder flushed.
Find a vet you can work with, I know that all the testing can add up $, but now that she has been stable for a year, ask the vet what tests you can skip or do less often.
With my dog, after he had no reoccurrences for over a year or two, plus he was a senior. My vet let me skip all the pH urine testing and x-rays. He said as long as he is not having symptoms, we are not going there. It depends on the dog, the type of stones, etc.

[crazy4cats]

Here is a link with some great information on bladder stones: https://www.vetmed.umn.edu/centers-programs/minnesota-urolith-center/recommendations

It’s been almost three years since my cat had his blockage so I’m not remembering a lot of the specifics. But, I was under the impression that most stones in dogs are the result of urinary tract infections. Was your dog tested and/or treated for an infection?

Making sure that your dog gets plenty of water in her is extremely important!!!!

Also, please remember that the food on this site is rated for healthy dogs, not ones that have medical conditions. Hopefully, as anon101 mentioned, you may be able to wean your dog off the Rx kibble once she has stabilized. Good luck!

[anonymous]

Another thing, when the stone was removed, the vet usually sends it out to be analyzed.
“The vet said she “thought” she had a Struvite bladder stone”.

It is important to identify the type of stone, usually struvite or calcium oxalate, it makes a difference as to which foods should be restricted.

Also, ask your vet about prescription medication for stubborn cases, if your dog is having recurring urinary tract infections and/or bladder stones.

You may find this article helpful, excerpt below, click on link for full article and more information plus treatment recommendations
http://bichonhealth.org/HealthInfo/UrinaryStones.htm

Management of Bichons with Urinary Stones
 It has long been recognized that some Bichons Frises have a predisposition to formation of urinary stones (uroliths). This condition is known as urolithiasis. There are several types of stones that can form in the bladder, with struvite (also called magnesium triple phosphate or “infection” stones) and calcium oxalate being the most common in Bichons. The most important preventative for stone formation is free access to fresh water. For a dog predisposed to stone formation, there are other considerations as well. This article is intended to provide the pet owner with a better understanding of the prevention and treatment of urinary stones. Good veterinary treatment is the most reliable resource for the ongoing care of your dog. You may wish to copy this article for your veterinarian.
The Bichon Frise Club of America, Inc. sought input from Carl A Osborne DVM, PhD in preparing this material. Dr. Osborne, Professor at the College of Veterinary Medicine, University of Minnesota, is considered a leading authority on canine uroliths. We are grateful to him and to his team at the Minnesota Urolith Center for their assistance in making this information available. For more information, you and your veterinarian will be aided by the book “The ROCKet Science of Canine Uroliths”. You will find details in the article below.
And now, please carefully read the following article, prepared by Dr. Osborne and his staff. At the end of the article, there are several paragraphs about Bichon health that need to be considered as a part of the total picture in treating Bichons with bladder infections and stones.

[anonymous]

Per the search engine: /forums/search/bladder+stones/
See my posts
Also regarding prescription food:

More Nonsense from Holistic Vets about Commercial Therapeutic Diets

I have used Royal Canin SO for a dog for a dog with bladder stones with good results.
Zignature is a quality food, copy the ingredient list from Chewy and show your vet, maybe the dog could have that? Or, 1/2 and 1/2 with the prescription food? Check with your vet.
Whatever you feed, add water and maybe soft food, presoak kibble and add water.

Dogs that get bladder stones often have a genetic predisposition (struvite and calcium oxalate are the most common), not enough water is another contributing factor.
Has she had an x-ray/ultrasound to rule out bladder stones? Because, they can have more than one type of stones. This also. can result in recurrent urinary tract infections.
Add water to the kibble, and you can also presoak the kibble in water overnight in the fridge prior to serving.
Offer frequent bathroom breaks/opportunities to urinate, keep the bladder flushed. Stagnant conditions in the bladder are conductive to stone formation.
Don’t free feed, 2 or 3 small meals a day is better and always have fresh water available. Maybe add a little plain chicken broth (no onion) to the kibble.
A blocked urethra is a medical emergency and can result in surgery to save the dog’s life.
Did the vet talk to you about prescription meds for stubborn cases? Don’t confuse supplements with medication.
Work with your vet, prescription food and all, when the dog has been stable for 6 months to 1 year you can discuss diet changes.
Use the search engine here to see more threads on this topic.
This is not veterinary advice; consult your veterinarian.
Ps: You may find some helpful information here http://skeptvet.com/Blog/?s=urinary+tract+infection

[Cherie G]

My dog Bischon/poodle is a rescue and is now @ 4 1/2 yrs old. I have had her for about 1 1/2 year. She had a bladder stone the size of an egg (REALLY!) and had to have surgery to have it removed. The vet said she “thought” she had a Struvite bladder stone. The Vet put her on Royal Canine SO by prescription. She has been on this about 1 yr. Now reading about the ingredients from this site, I am very worried about the food ingredients which start out with Brewers rice, corn, chicken by product meal, chicken fat and more. She is a dog that is starving at all times. I give her 1/2 C in morning and 1/2 C in evening. Make her own dog treats. Does ANYONE have experience with the bladder stones and possibly recommend a dog food that is better??? I’ve been buying it at Chewy and is less expensive than the Vet……but…….?……..now am confused.
Thank you so much……..Cherie (the human)…..Sophie (the dog)….

[anonymous]

Zignature is the best! IMO.
How is your dog doing? Better, I hope.

PS: If you go to their website they will tell you where you can buy it in your area.
http://zignature.com/?page_id=14&lang=en
My neighbor’s dog (sensitive stomach) was on Fromm, but the dog is now doing much better since the owner switched her to Zignature about a year ago. Has not needed prn Pepcid in a while, and anal gland issues have decreased significantly.
My dogs are doing well on Zignature too, I use it as a base and add stuff plus I always add a splash of water. I had a dog that did not drink enough water and developed bladder stones (genetic predisposition), so, that’s why I do that

[Marie Y]

After much research and trial and I have found that one of the worst things you can feed your dog is hills science diet or the Royal Canaan foods for urinary issues they have absolutely all of the wrong ingredients in them! Research has been done that has shown protein is not a bad thing carbohydrates are. I am feeding my dog a homemade cooked diet that’s low in fat has just need protein vegetables and supplements in it and here’s the magical ingredient that I found for the bladder stones. It’s called Lysimaccia 3! It’s amazing! My dog had crystals in his urine every single time I took in the sample in as soon as I started using the lysimachia he has none at all!

[anonymous]

I don’t believe this negative stuff about Zignature. My two small breeds are doing very well on the whitefish (lowest in sodium) kibble, and the catfish.
If you go to the Zignature website they answer your questions and disclose sodium levels on all their products.
I had a dog with calcium oxalate bladder stones, struvite crystals and urinary tract infections. It was serious, emergency surgery and all.
From what I could tell, the main culprits were genetic predisposition and inadequate water intake, not the food.
A lot of pet owners serve kibble dry. Put down a bowl of water and assume their dogs are drinking enough….this is often not the case.
Also, expecting these dogs to hold their urine for 10 hours a day is conducive to stagnant conditions in the bladder, perfect environment for crystals and bladder stones to form.
Keep the bladder flushed, offer bathroom breaks at the minimum, every 4 hours (every 2 hours is ideal). Exercise, long walks, keep the weight down. Feed twice a day, measured amounts.
Sorry, if I went off on a rant 🙂
I am just sharing what worked for my dog with this problem.

[anonymous]

Zignature, wet or dry, presoak the dry food and add water.
However, at age 16, the ailments you describe are most likely age related.
Food can only do so much, some seniors need a bathroom break about every 2 hours for optimal results. Minimum, every 4 hours.
Feed 3 or 4 or 5 small meals per day with water added, rather than 2 meals per day. Always have fresh water available. Don’t expect the dog to hold his urine all day, that’s how bladder stones develop.
Talk to your vet about prescription meds for the arthritis pain, care and comfort.

[sammi l]

My small 9 year old dog got bladder stones – treated with meds. Vet said to feed her prescription Science Diet for 6 weeks then keep her on it. If you read the label it’s GARBAGE. New vet prescribed Blue Wilderness Wu. Sammi eats kibble and canned – does very well. It’s new product – my Vet prescribes it thru distributed Vet’s First Choice.

Hope that helps!

[anonymous]

If the urinary tract infections reoccur despite treatment, I would ask the vet about doing an ultrasound to rule out bladder stones. Dogs can have more than one type of stone.
For example: Struvite and Calcium Oxalate.

[anonymous]

Bump (response from previous thread on the same subject)
“Dogs that get urinary tract infections and bladder stones tend to have a genetic predisposition, combine that with not enough water intake, not enough opportunities to urinate and you have a problem”.
“Whatever you decide to feed, add water to the kibble or canned food, even presoak and add water. Take out to urinate at least every 4 hours (every 2 hours is ideal) stagnant conditions in the bladder are conducive to bladder stone formation”.
“Always have fresh water available for the dog 24/7”.
“Supplements are crap, don’t waste your money unless your vet recommends something specific for your dog”.
Ps: You think the prescription food is expensive. Try emergency surgery for a blocked urethra.
Been there, done that.
Bump (response from a previous thread on the same subject)
Per the search engine: /forums/search/urinary+tract+infections/
Regarding cranberry: http://skeptvet.com/Blog/?s=cranberry

I’m hoping someone might find this information helpful (even if the op doesn’t) 🙂
After all, this topic comes up at least once a week.

[anonymous]

Dogs that get urinary tract infections and bladder stones tend to have a genetic predisposition, combine that with not enough water intake, not enough opportunities to urinate and you have a problem.
Whatever you decide to feed, add water to the kibble or canned food, even presoak and add water. Take out to urinate at least every 4 hours (every 2 hours is ideal) stagnant conditions in the bladder are conducive to bladder stone formation.
Always have fresh water available for the dog 24/7.
Supplements are crap, don’t waste your money unless your vet recommends something specific for your dog.

Ps: You think the prescription food is expensive. Try emergency surgery for a blocked urethra.
Been there, done that.

[anonymous]

Dogs that get bladder stones often have a genetic predisposition (struvite and calcium oxalate are the most common), not enough water is another contributing factor.
Has she had an x-ray/ultrasound to rule out bladder stones? Because, they can have more than one type of stones. This also. can result in recurrent urinary tract infections.
Add water to the kibble, and you can also presoak the kibble in water overnight in the fridge prior to serving.
Offer frequent bathroom breaks/opportunities to urinate, keep the bladder flushed. Stagnant conditions in the bladder are conductive to stone formation.
Don’t free feed, 2 or 3 small meals a day is better and always have fresh water available. Maybe add a little plain chicken broth (no onion) to the kibble.
A blocked urethra is a medical emergency and can result in surgery to save the dog’s life.
Did the vet talk to you about prescription meds for stubborn cases? Don’t confuse supplements with medication.
Work with your vet, prescription food and all, when the dog has been stable for 6 months to 1 year you can discuss diet changes.
Use the search engine here to see more threads on this topic and others.

Ps: You may find some helpful information here http://skeptvet.com/Blog/?s=urinary+tract+infection
Btw: I’d skip the supplements, glucosamine and such. They don’t really help and could contribute to the formation of bladder stones.
Increase water intake and frequent bathroom breaks, opportunities to urinate is your best bet, just add water to the kibble of your choice, they lap it up to get to the food.
This is not veterinary advice; consult your veterinarian.

[Tammy J]

Hi All,
I think this is a great forum. I’m hoping some folks can help me find the best food for my Sweetie. She is turning 9 in September. She is a shorkie (shih tzu/yorkie) She weighs about 15 pounds. She developed bladder stones about a year ago. The vet treated her with medicine and switched her food to urinary SO. The stones actually dissolved, no surgery needed. However, I was told she would need prescription food for the rest of her life. I was previously feeding her primal freeze dried nuggets. They said raw diets are the worst choice. Sweetie has always had allergies, and she did great on raw. She’s been super itchy and eating her feet since changing food. She’s developed a bladder infection and we are now on Hills urinary c/d. She’s licked her paws raw and developed a yeast infection (didn’t know that was possible on a paw) and is on medication for that. I understand that the prescription food has a reduced amount of calcium, magnesium and phosphorus. I’ve read some not great things about Hills food. Sweetie has never been a big drinker, the other thing to prevent the crystals from coming back. She also benefits from glucosamine for her stiff joints. While researching senior foods, they seem so high in the minerals. Any ideas on the best food for keeping Sweetie healthy and happy? I wouldn’t mind making homemade, since we only have one dog. Thanks for your help!

[anonymous]

Zignature or Fromm
Zignature is Adult, All Stages
Fromm has a puppy food.
I never have used a “puppy food” I go right to adult, I also do not rotate. I stick with one brand I am happy with. My current favorite is Zignature Whitefish kibble as a base.
You are on the right track adding water and/or presoaking. Many dogs don’t drink enough water which can lead to bladder stones later on, especially if they have a predisposition.

This is not veterinary advice; consult your veterinarian.

[anonymous]

Dogs that get bladder stones often have a genetic predisposition (struvite and calcium oxalate are the most common), not enough water is another contributing factor.
Has she had an x-ray/ultrasound to rule out bladder stones? Because, they can have more than one type of stones. This also. can result in recurrent urinary tract infections.
Add water to the kibble, and you can also presoak the kibble in water overnight in the fridge prior to serving.
Offer frequent bathroom breaks/opportunities to urinate, keep the bladder flushed. Stagnant conditions in the bladder are conductive to stone formation.
Don’t free feed, 2 or 3 small meals a day is better and always have fresh water available. Maybe add a little plain chicken broth (no onion) to the kibble.
A blocked urethra is a medical emergency and can result in surgery to save the dog’s life.
Did the vet talk to you about prescription meds for stubborn cases? Don’t confuse supplements with medication.
Work with your vet, prescription food and all, when the dog has been stable for 6 months to 1 year you can discuss diet changes.
Use the search engine here to see more threads on this topic.
This is not veterinary advice; consult your veterinarian.
Ps: You may find some helpful information here http://skeptvet.com/Blog/?s=urinary+tract+infection

[Christie]

Two days ago my mother noticed her 2 year old dog straining to pee and when she did pee it was just a weak dribble. She called the vet because it looked like a clear sign of a UTI/Bladder infection. When she took a sample (what little that there was) it was bloody. The vet did a whole workup including Xrays (due to the intestinal blockage the dog had last year from eating a throw rug) to make sure that it wasn’t anything more than an infection. Yesterday, the vet called to confirm that she had a “raging” Bladder infection, which I thought was a bit strange since the dog wasn’t having any issues urinating days before. The vet went on to say that crystals had formed in her urine and there was e Coli and other microbes in her urine and she said that the dog should be fed with the prescription diet that the vet’s office sells.

Now I know that some dogs and cats do have issues where the urine can form crystals and cause kidney stones and blockages. But I’ve also read that an infection, when left untreated for some time, could also cause crystals to form from the build up of urine that isn’t being released.

My cat almost died a few years ago because I didn’t understand the signs of a UTI (he’d stay in the litter box a long time with no success (I thought he was having issues defecating) and he developed a blockage that thankfully passed without surgery. While the initial urine had shown crystals, subsequent tests once he was at the vet’s for the week with IV meds didn’t show crystals. The vet said that he didn’t need “prescription food” as long as I switched him to wet food to up his moisture intake to encourage more frequent urination.

Considering that this is the first time that this dog has ever had a UTI, should we immediately jump to getting the prescription food that the vet is trying to sell us? I kind of feel like she was pressuring my mother by trying to scare her by telling her that there was e Coli in the urine. Because I know that e Coli is a frequent cause of UTIs in animals and that it’s often found in urine (but is usually harmless).

Are there any foods out there that promote good Kidney/UTI function that we should try first? Right now, she’s overweight. She’s about 40 pounds and could do with losing about 5-10 to be considered healthy. She’s currently eating Fromm’s Weight Management dry.

[anonymous]

I always add a little water to kibble anyway, a lot of dogs don’t drink enough. I had a dog that developed bladder stones. I determined the cause to be genetic predisposition and inadequate fluid intake.

[pitlove]

Hi Lori-

What you consider “slightly” overweight, is not slightly at all for a dog that size. You will have much more success at controlling his diabetes if he were to lose that weight.

Are the bladder stones a concern at this point? You said there has not been another occurance.

I would consider getting the opinion of an internal medicine specialist to determine what things need to be focused on. You might also want to consult with a veterinary nutritionist regarding diet. Your less likely to be confused if you discuss your options with a specialist rather than looking on the internet or talking to a general practice vet.

[anonymous]

I don’t think the homeopathic stuff will help, in fact it may make him worse.
I would go back to the vet that knows him best and go by his advice.

Sorry, but that’s all I’ve got. I would focus on care and comfort, rather than aggressive measures.
Make sure to add water/presoak his kibble and offer frequent bathroom breaks, opportunities to urinate, regarding the bladder stones.

PS: Those supplements you mentioned are not a good idea, most supplements are scams.
I prefer science based veterinary medicine.
I have found this site helpful http://skeptvet.com/Blog/

• This reply was modified 6 years, 11 months ago by anonymous.

[Lori H]

I am beyond confused on what to do regarding my dog! I am looking for some kind of direction without completely going down the Internet rabbit hole and doing something I might regret! There is so much information out there and I am so overwhelmed!

My dog Buddy just turned nine. He is a Chihuahua/Dachshund/Pomeranian mix and slightly overweight. (19 lbs) should be around (16 lbs).

Here is a year in the life:

– March 2016 – discovered to have bladder stones; tried to eliminate them with a change in food (Royal Canin Prescription). There was a lot of confusion, second opinions and it was then discovered that they were calcium oxilate with two logged in his urethra. He had surgery to remove the stones and they have not yet returned. We did change his food to Hills Science Diet U/D.

– March 2017 – having what I could only call “panic attacks”. Went to the vet to discover after blood work that he has diabetes. We put him on insulin and slowly have been increasing it from 3 units to 5 units. He was going back every few weeks to have his levels checked. It was not getting better so a test for Cushing’s was ordered and came back negative (thank goodness). We continued with the dosing and he has been on 5 units consistently for the last month.

Thursday 5.4.17 – took him back to the vet for a check up and because he was again experiencing a “panic attack”. I was worried he was having an insulin reaction. They ran blood work and found that he was not having any type of reaction to either too much or too little insulin, but is now insulin resistant (Type II).

Next steps – they are concerned about his liver and want to do a liver biopsy to see if there is something severe going on. I have spent almost $7K on him in a year alone and don’t want to do something that might not be necessary, eliminate the stress on him and also the additional cost. I will do anything for him, but I am now thinking that a more holistic approach might be the answer.

With this, I am trying to determine what will be best for him because of the issue with bladder stones, diabetes and possible liver issues. I feel like he is broken. 🙁 I am willing to do research, but a point in the right direction is what I need to at least start somewhere.

I have gotten him Milk Thistle, I am planning to get Bragg Apple Cider vinegar, I am also thinking that SAM-e, Vitamin K and a probiotic are necessary. I just don’t know what to do to feed him. I would like to try a possible raw food that is commercially made first and then go from there…

Any help you might be able to give would be greatly appreciated. He has been through so much and I just want him to feel better, get healthy and be around for a few more years.

Thank you again!

[anonymous]

Sounds good, I would go by what your vet recommends, for now.
It probably wouldn’t hurt to add a fish oil capsule. No matter how good the dog food, a lot of the fish oil stuff dissipates as soon as you open the bag 🙁

Ps: Make sure he is drinking water, these old guys, especially small breeds, are vulnerable to develop bladder stones. I would add a splash to his food.

[anonymous]

Okay.
I hope his appetite improves when his course of antibiotics are over. If he’s not getting at least adequate fluids let the vet know., maybe subq fluids would help?

My dog was on the Royal Canin S/O prescription for several months. I did have to add something to it so he would eat it though,
He had struvite and calcium oxalate. The struvite cleared up right away with treatment. Increased water and frequent bathroom breaks seem to help with all types of bladder stones.
I hope your dog feels better soon..
Peace

[Angela G]

my 11 year old french bulldog had bladder stone surgery a few months ago he had calcium oxalate stones, his vet said we needed to feed him CD or SO he did ok at first but now he doesn’t want to eat either of them, what else can I feed him ?

[anonymous]

Dogs don’t digest carrots, no matter how you prepare them. That’s why you
will see orange/carrot chunks in the feces. Probably the same for other veggies, that being said, a little fiber is good, but, too much can cause GI upset and loose stools.
Some dogs don’t tolerate veggies (or like them) well at all.
I would check with the vet that you take your dog to for annual exams.
Depending on results (lab work etc) such as a predisposition for a certain type of bladder stones, the vet may advise NO veggies.

[anonymous]

Have the dogs had senior workups? Lab work? Was it within normal limits?
Give the vet a call and ask that she call you back when she has a minute, I’m sure she won’t mind answering your questions. But, dogs that are inactive tend to have difficulty tolerating rich, high protein, high calorie diets…. See what the vet recommends.

PS: Add a splash of water to meals. Most dogs, especially seniors don’t consume enough water. Offer frequent bathroom breaks, opportunities to urinate, otherwise, certain breeds are vulnerable to develop bladder stones (calcium oxalate and struvite come to mind).

[anonymous]

That’s what I do . It seems to work, depending on the dog, sometimes I go half and half, if It agrees with them. I use a quality kibble as a base. I suppose I do decrease the amount of kibble by adding a topper.
I like to give them some real food, I don’t trust kibble alone to do that
Sometimes I add some plain homemade chicken broth instead of water. I had a dog that developed bladder stones because he didn’t drink enough fluids. That’s why I do that. For seniors I presoak the kibble.

PS: Don’t go by the recommended amount on the bag of kibble, it’s usually too much (IMO)
Start with the lowest amount…