[Jenn H]

Sometimes giving them a “snack” between meals helps. Something like a little pumpkin or green beans. Always wet the dry w/ warm water and let soak for a few min. The kibble gets bigger.
My pup was the same way until I changed his food. He now eats 1/2 as much as the other food, is more satisfied and has saved me a lot of money.
My Lab mix acts like she never had a meal in her life every time someone opens the door their food is in. She literally goes right for the empty bag like she’s attacking a bad guy or something. She’d eat past exploding if possible. Apparently Labs are just that way. (I’ve only had GSDs and they aren’t like this.) They inhale their food and don’t know when to stop eating. It’s a crazy thing about them. I drown her food in warm water and use the slowest slow feeder I can find.
What I have noticed is every 10 yr old Lab I have ever seen is overweight and/or lumpy. She is not!!!!! She’s svelt, lean and muscular!!!
In winter I add whole grain oatmeal after it’s been cooked & cooled. This helps tremendously with keeping her from freezing on cold days. It’s fat free so she doesn’t get fat from it. I think it acts like hay or beet pulp does for horses. Just cold calories.
Very often a high protein, low carb diet works well. A small dog I would feed at least 3 times/day anyway as everything moves through them faster. I know that isn’t always possible for everyone.
You can also try mixing water and a little fat free chicken broth and freezing it. They’ll think they are getting a treat and it may take a while for them to eat it. Fat free frozen FAGE yogurt (it has nothing artificial or added sugar) works well too.

[Jenn H]

Wendeyzee your situation is eerily similar to mine when I lost my 2 boys. The first from torsion. I took him to the vet immediately, but that emergency vet was a quack and wasn’t doing anything to help. I literally had to break into the back area & “steal” him back. Took him to another emergency vet. 3 hrs later. (Still don’t know how he hung on that long.) He survived the surgery, but kept coding afterward. We had to let him go.
A few months later my other guy was diagnosed w/HSA. He didn’t wake up from the anesthesia. Honestly if I had to choose a way for my animals to go that’s it. Just go to sleep happy and not wake up. The vet did CPR for 45 min. I couldn’t bring myself to tell her to stop even tho I knew. My husband showed up and told her no more. He was my baby boy. They were almost 11 and just barely 8 respectfully. (SHEP is my avatar.) How could I go home to my 2 girls a second time empty handed???
I’m grateful a part of SHEP is still here. His niece is will turn 8 in April. My biggest fear is she will have the same diagnosis some day. She’s my best little friend. It’s been ages since I’ve had a GSD live to a respectable age of 13+. Sometimes I almost feel like feeding them crap food maybe wasn’t so bad. Those are the dogs that lived to see old age.
From what I have learned about cancer diets is high protein, low carb. Good luck finding any premade. Grain free tend to have even more carbs than with grain. Go figure.
There is a DNA test for this cancer I think. But I already know it’s a possibility with my baby girl.
I’ve been told it’s basically 50/50 if a dog gets cancer or not. If that holds true then statistically 1 of my girls would get it. This is a thought I try to block every time it pops in my head. I’d rather it be me. Let all bad things happen to me. Never them.

[Jenn H]

Given that the link is pro-veg right there makes it biased. I prefer to look for more balanced studies.
But my biggest issue with that “study” is that PETA was involved. They are 1 of the worst sources for animal information. They habitually lie about numbers and their version of facts are usually so exaggarated they’re pretty much bs.
I can’t think of an animal right/activist organization that is more harmful to animals and/or the cause than this bunch of hypocritical moonbats.
Try again.

[Jenn H]

Assuming your pup doesn’t have parasites or other medical conditions try giving a limited ingredient food for a little while and adding pure pumpkin and/or a probiotic.
Your dog may be one that doesn’t tolerate the more common proteins like chicken or beef. You can try lamb, fish, bison or other novel protein source.

[Jenn H]

I just switched my 6 month old GSD from Wellness Grain Free Core Large Breed Puppy to Solid Gold Wolf Cub.
I chose Wellness because of its calcium content not being more than 1.5%
It took a while to find another brand to put in his rotation that doesn’t exceed the recommended maximum calcium amount for large breed pups.
He’s done well on both so far. I think I like the Solid Gold more. I feed him half the amount and it’s not grain free.
It’s difficult to find LBP food that doesn’t exceed 1.5% calcium. You may have to do the leg work and email companies asking for the maximum amount on a dry matter basis as fed. Annoyingly they often just put min amounts.

[Jenn H]

Pitlove you make a good point.
It’s actually a dog’s natural instinct to kill something that is weak or sick. Easy prey. Means less energy used to obtain a food source.
If a pack member is sick, suffering of dying it is also instinct to kill them. No reason to waste nutrition on a dying animal when it can be provided to a healthy member.
I’m talking more about wild canines in the latter example.
Animals 1 & only real priority is survival. Nothing more. Nothing less. Survival first for themselves so they can help the pack which ultimately helps the species.

Dick, I understand how easy it is to anthropromorphize animals, but they are NOT humans. It’s one thing to live by your truths and convictions as long as it doesn’t cause harm to another. It makes me nuts when people push these things on their animals. Just because you don’t want to eat animal products does not mean your pets should be vegan as well. If their diet bothers you that much maybe a vegetarian pet is a better choice.
You can feed them vegan, but they will never have the guilt you have about eating meat if fed that.
You can believe in a god and have your animals blessed, but they aren’t going to become whatever faith you push on them.
You will get your point across much better if you don’t attack people. Your approach just makes everyone more defensive. Also no one likes being force fed other people’s beliefs. Live your life your way and let others do the same.
By the way I am a vegetarian. My dogs are not. That is not what they are meant to be and I am not going to try to make them. I have free will. They really don’t.

[Jenn H]

So just, the other day my dog was diagnosed with a UTI. There were crystals in the urine. I don’t know if she has high acid or alkaline. They said they can’t tell until retest. I think I’ll get test strips and try to see if that helps.
Anyway I picked up Solid Gold Berry Balance. It’s supposed to be used for high alkaline crystals. The reviews are great. You don’t need very much.
Just a thought if it’s something that may help your dog until you can get the surgery.

[Jenn H]

I’m very sorry for your loss.
It sounds like he had a hemangiosarcoma. It’s a very very very sneaky disease. My 8 y/o GSD died from a hemangiosarcoma on his right aorta. And I have 2 friends who had dogs with it on their spleen as well.
The thing about this cancer is usually the bleeding of it that kills them, not the actual cancer cells.
SHEP (my 8 y/o) was being managed very well by the holistic treatment. It was the anesthesia that he had to have to be tapped that his heart couldn’t take.
My first friend whose boxer mix had this was put down a few days after diagnosis. I think he would’ve had a better outcome if she had a better vet and/or sought out a second opinion.
My other friend’s Rhodesian Ridgeback lived for years with his. She fed him a low carb high protein diet. Mainly dehydrated raw. He had to take Pepcid. She never did the surgery because of his age.
It’s a disease more commonly found in some breeds than others. GSDs tend to have it on right aorta. Having the niece of my dog who passed I am in constant fear that she will have the same fate.
My sympathies are with you. I know how devastating it is to lose a dog. Especially so suddenly.

[Jenn H]

I am so sorry for the difficulty. It’s so heartbreaking when our animals aren’t well and we can’t help them. Worst feeling ever.
Wish I had more to offer. I truly hope everything works out well.
Try pleading with vet to do the surgery and make payments. If that vet then keep looking. We have to assume vets are in this business because they truly love animals and want to help them.
I’m near Boston and we have a grear vet school. They have a teaching hospital and are able to be very good about working out the payment side. (I have heard.)
Are there any vet schools near you? Just another idea.

[Jenn H]

A while back Greenies changed and a lot of dogs started having stomach upset. I haven’t used them in yrs. They can also be fattening.
I’m lucky though that my dogs have naturally good teeth. A lot has to do with genetics.
My dogs also like the Nylabones that are chew toys. I haven’t given them the edible kind.
Wysong has a powder that you add to the water. A friend of mine just started her dog on it. No verdict yet on how well it works.

[Jenn H]

InkedMarie had some good suggestions for financing your dog’s treatment. I’ve been there despite having a savings acct for the animals. It was depleted quickly. Care Credit was good. Just pay it within 6 months or else the APR goes way up.
When I was in a real bind I literally saved evey coin and cashed them in at the bank. You’ll be surprised how quickly change adds up.
Start selling stuff. Have a yard sale.
Ask the vet if they’ll put you on a payment plan. Often they say services must be paid in full at the time of visit, but many will make exceptions in desperate times.
Or make small payments ahead of the procedure. Prepay for it. Once there’s enough of a credit at your vet then you can do the surgery.
Try looking online for assistance with vet bills. There are some charities that are willing to help with some costs. You usually need to give proof of income and they’ll decide if/how much they can give you.
Other than that all you can do is cut costs everywhere you can come up with. Generic brands, making coffee at home, no going out, planning routes very carefully when doing errands so as not to use more gas than absolutely necessary… every little thing will add up.

[Jenn H]

Wysong also has a supplement called Biotic pH-. It’s for this kind of problem. With any luck and diet changes maybe you can avoid surgery all together.

[Jenn H]

Aimee you are absolutely correct about not just looking at the ingredients, but all the other things like quality control and who designed the diets, etc.
It takes me forever to decide on new foods because of the labeling. They often have minimums listed and usually I need to the max. For instance I have a large breed puppy. I don’t need to know the min calcium nearly as much as the max.
I also want to know where the ingredients are sourced, do they use co-packers…none of these are on the bags. Most of the time they are even on the website.
This leads me to email companies directly with a list of about 15 questions and I ask whatever they have left out.
Most companies have been very forthcoming.

As for vets recommendations…ugh. I’ve been having that same problem w/ my vet. I’ve been going to them for 20+ yrs. The owner is now on the board for Science Diet. They have been pushing it a lot lately. Not only are the ingredients just fillers, but they now have a new head honcho at Hill’s that thinks chicken feathers are fine to feed and is using crap ingredients because it’s cheap.

I don’t know if OP realizes that Hills and Royal Canin are the same company now.

Just remember that what works for 1 dog doesn’t always work for another. I have 3 dogs and they have 3 different diets.

[Jenn H]

You may have luck with Biotic pH-. It’s a supplement for dogs with this condition by Wysong.
I have used their Innoculant and it was a miracle. My friend is using the one for teeth/oral health. Her dogs love the stuff, but it’s too soon to tell if it’s working yet.
I’ll admit I do have a bias to this brand. I’ve had a lot of luck with the products I’ve used from them and their customer service has been wonderful. They answer questions quickly and thoroughly and their suggestions have worked out well.

[Jenn H]

I just contacted a company that was suggested to me by an alternative caregiver of the horses at my barn. It’s called Herbs for Life and they have organic pet supplements. I’m hoping they will be suggesting something for GI problems and the issues my baby girl has been having.
Another thing I wanted to suggest you try is something from Wysong called Innoculant. That’s a great probiotics. I have Wysong in my food rotation and love it. I’m about to transition my girl to Fundamentals for a while.

• This reply was modified 8 years, 4 months ago by Jenn H. Reason: Suggested a different supplement

[Jenn H]

Excellent advice InkedMarie.
Aren’t we the cause of most problems??? Lol.
I have found that to be very effective to getting a dog to eat. Once I got more than 1 dog I never had an issue of a dog not eating immediately unless they were sick.

[Jenn H]

Sometimes adding warm water to dry makes it more enticing.
Every dog is different. They may not like the same food or are sick of what you feed them. Sometimes they know something isn’t right w/ the food and won’t eat it.

Why do you not want to mix it with wet? Wet is little more costly, but better than dry food.

I’m assuming your dogs are otherwise healthy. It’s weird that a Lab won’t eat something. That makes me suspicious.

[Jenn H]

I agree with anonymously. Get a 2nd or 3rd opinion. ASAP. Go to as many vets as needed to get an answer. An animal that small takes no time to become dehydrated. Dehydration can also cause nausea.

You can add a little low sodium/low fat chicken broth to get her to drink. Or freeze it if she likes ice cubes.

To help with the diarrhea give her a tiny bit of pumpkin or probiotics. This really is only treating some symptoms. Not the cause.

Also don’t leave food out 24/7. It loses its nutritional value, usually loses its enticing smell and just makes dogs less interested because they know it’s not going anywhere. If they have limited time to get eating they become better eaters.

Always add water to her meals. Especially kibble. Helps keep her hydrated and makes things easier to digest. And offer lots of small meals throughout the day. Much easier on the belly.

My dog is going through some GI issues now too. My regular vet hasn’t been able to find the cause. She ended up at emergency even though her symptoms weren’t terrible. Yet. Turns out she was in some pain. Slightly dehydrated. X-rays showed nothing really. Labs weren’t too out of whack.
Gave her metronidazole, tramadol, Pepcid, prescription probiotics, sub-q fluids.
The next day we were at an internal medicine specialist who did an ultrasound and redid the labs. Still haven’t found the cause of her trouble, but we have a plan going forward and I’m confident we’ll figure it out. They looked at everything. Pancreas, gallbladder, liver, kidneys, spleen, etc.

In Feb she had acute pancreatitis and was diagnosed again with it and the general inflammed bowel while treating Lyme. She’s had issues since Feb. Finding the cause is a little difficult given the Lyme and it’s treatment options.

Don’t waste time on vets who can’t or won’t help you. Time is of the essence. She’s likely experiencing pain. It’s not fair to let her suffer. Even a little bit.

Good luck.

• This reply was modified 8 years, 4 months ago by Jenn H.

[Jenn H]

First off word of mouth can have a huge impact on a local business. I know this first hand. Tell everyone you know about what happened. Before you realize it your info has spread like the common cold.
Who to contact in NYC regarding bad business practices:
NYC.gov consumer assistance
Attorney General
BBB New York
FTC Bureau of Consumer Protection

Don’t forget about your local media. That can also be a powerful tool to get the word out.

Have you contacted Stella & Chewy’s? They would probably want to know that someone is selling their recalled food. It doesn’t make them look good if dogs get sick again. And they may also be willing to refund you.

[Jenn H]

I have 2 dogs that were diagnosed w/ acute pancreatitis the day after the Super Bowl. The Lab got into dog food and just gorged. The GSD didn’t eat nearly as much yet had more severe symptoms that didn’t completely resolve after treatment. Her Lyme came back really high so they chalked it up to that.
10 months later and she still isn’t completely 100%. In fact we were just at the emergency vet a couple wks ago.
This yr she has been treated for Lyme twice w/ 2 different antibiotics. Both aggregated her stomach.
A couple of times her labs showed some high #s with her liver and kidney. Not alarmingly high and they did go back to normal.
X-rays have shown lots of gas to the point where her intestines were pushed over.

We’re now working with a specialist. He did an ultrasound to look at everything. Her pancreas, gallbladder, liver, kidneys…all looked good the day after the emergency visit.
For now he’s given her the general diagnosis of IBD/IBS. Once she’s completely off i/d and meds and back to her normal diet we’ll see if she regresses again.
The only meds I’ve given her right now is Pepcid w/ meals. I’m very slowly decreasing that and very slowly transitioning her back to Wysong.
She also gets 2 tbsp pure pumpkin in the morning.

Pancreatitis can be acute or chronic. While she was initially diagnosed with acute pancreatitis, chronic pancreatitis is a potential next diagnosis.
She is a very very very active dog and keeping her weight up has always been a challenge as a result. Low fat diet is not satisfying or even reasonable. My hope is that transitioning her diet even slower than usual and she won’t need any meds for other problems we’ll finally stop this upset stomach nonsense once & for all. If she has to remain on Pepcid for life I’m fine with that if it means she can go back to her completely normal life and eating habits.

I hope you have better luck with figuring out what’s going on. But know that pancreatitis and IBD are manageable diseases. And for that I am grateful.

[Jenn H]

This is a very interesting and important topic. Having GSDs that I have at the farm and take to many outside places I’m always looking for something with the best results and least amount of chemicals and side effects.
Here in New England ticks are relentless and pretty much a threat year round. I have used Intercepter & Advantix for yrs with great results. When my girl gets fleas I use Capstar and spray Adam’s on everything. I even spray her with a horse fly spray that is also safe for dogs. She’s out in woods and water so much that it’s a constant fight to keep ticks off of her.
When Intercepter was temporarily discontinued I went back to Sentinal. No complaints.
Admittedly I haven’t been as vigilant using the preventatives since my girl ended up with Lyme anyway despite the randomly effective vaccine and all other preventions.
I have heard that ACV is a great, natural alternative. I just can’t stomach the smell so I haven’t tried it.
I’ll be following this thread closely as I’m always open to trying something new & improved with the least chance of harm to the animal.

[Jenn H]

Just a quick side note regarding the collars like Seresto.
Be very careful about where your dog wears them. I think they are very effective and found it to be a great alternative for a sick dog I had that I was leery about using other products on. However, I have a GSD who runs around a farm all day. While this would be the most convenient option for her, it’s a fatal option for other wildlife.
She is such a waterdog and doesn’t miss an opportunity to jump in the ponds and water jumps. Frogs, turtles, fish, birds also enjoy these areas. The chemicals on the collar have been known to get into the water and kill the things that live there.
In short, if you let your dogs swim where other wildlife live these collars are not a good choice.

[Jenn H]

Pitlove you are absolutely correct. Every dog is different. My point was that when weeding out the protein sources as possible allergies chicken is a good place to start, then beef, then the next most common meat….
It would be nice, easy and convenient if all dogs could eat the exact same things.

[Jenn H]

Chicken is very often the cause of dog food intolerances. Maybe because it’s probably the most common protein source. I don’t know.
Usually a good place to start in figuring out what is upsetting a dog’s stomach is eliminating the chicken. Try something like lamb or beef. Don’t go too far from the most common to venison or bison until everything else is proven unacceptable.
I’m surprised it took a holistic vet to get you there. Figured it was common knowledge by now.
I’m talking about chicken used in prepared foods. Like kibble and canned. Not homemade diets. I don’t know much about that. I only cook for my dogs when they need bland diets. When I do it’s the antibiotic & GMO free organic stuff.

[Jenn H]

From my personal experiences I have found some homeopathic treatments work. Holistic treatments are better, but it integrating allopathic and holistic has provided the best outcomes.
There are certainly a lot of quacks on both sides of medicine. At the end of the day we need to do our homework and make sure the practitioner is reputable and knows what they’re talking about. And as with anything in medicine weigh the risk/reward of treatments.
There’s a place for homeopathy, holistic and allopathy. Sometimes you have to mix & match to get the maximum potential from all of them. Keep in mind all can be equally dangerous if not used properly.

[Jenn H]

What are his enzyme levels?
Does he have IBD or pancreatitis?
Don’t assume that the little brownish spots you clean up are food. They could be tiny amounts of blood. Not to scare you. Doesn’t sound like a lot, but it is a possible symptom.
Keep track of everything. Write it all down. Dates, times, what & how much is fed, when he throws up, if it’s after activity, immediately after meals, changes in behavior, bowel movements, water intake. You must gather as much info as possible. Then bring it to the vet. It’s hard to remember every detail so write it all down.
I’m dealing with some issues with 1 of my dogs who has never has any issues until she was put on antibiotics for Lyme twice. She’s a 7 year GSD who grew up on a farm. She’s been the picture of health and so active her whole life. Now she suddenly has digestive issues.
I’ve recently taken her to a different vet after having to go to the emergency vet. They did an ultrasound and blood work. They were looking at her intestines, pancreas, gallbladder, liver, everything. I also gave them an X-ray from a few months ago.
When you go to a vet come armed with all the info you have gathered and every question you can think of.
If you don’t get progress from one vet move on to another. I adore my vet, but after 10 months it was time to have a new set of eyes to go over everything and maybe come up w/ other theories.
Stomach issues can be a lot of things so it’s sometimes hard to figure out what is causing the problem. It could be IBD or it could be a symptom of something else.

[Jenn H]

Using formulas like the one Karen D suggested is very helpful.
You just need to find out what is required for your dog’s specific needs like breed, age/life stage, size, etc
I mix & match my dogs’ foods all the time. And because I have a large breed puppy I have to be very careful about making sure I stay within certain guidelines most importantly calcium & phosphorus, protein, fat.
Because dog food companies typically only put minimum amts in guaranteed analysis I find myself having to contact the companies for their maximum levels.
So you may have to do a little leg work.
When I have the percentages I need I subtract the lower amounts from the higher amounts of the different foods to be sure I’m within the percentages.

[Jenn H]

Glad you found something that stress with your dog. Orijen is great.
It should be OK to mix the canned with the new food if it agrees with his belly and you figure out the fat, protein, etc of mixing both so he doesn’t get too much of this or that.
Another option would be to donate the cans to a shelter. I’m sure they’d appreciate it.

[Jenn H]

Susan has a good idea about taking your pup on very short trips in the car. I would just like to add that make sure all trips aren’t to the shelter/vet. Either drive a few minutes aimlessly or to a fun place like a pet store (maybe during non peak hrs at first since he’s so excitable). Make it positive. Another thing you can do is give him something to do chew while in the car. This will only be for the car. That way it’s “special” and will redirect attention as well as provide an outlet for anxiety.
Some find Rescue Remedy or other calming things like that to be helpful.
I’m glad your dog is doing better. He lucked out and found a great person.

[Jenn H]

Don’t panic. I don’t think the awful ingredients are in S/O. Just want you to be aware there may be changes and to check each new bag.

[Jenn H]

Soaking kibble in warmish water and letting sit for about 5-10 min is also a good idea. Once the kibble has stopped “growing” in the water I feed it.
When you don’t add water to kibble the moisture comes from the dog’s body. The kibble then grows in the belly. If overfed they can get bloat.
I also do this because dogs don’t always drink enough to rehydrate what the kibble soaks up. (1 of my girls is like that and has become constipated/impacted.)
The warmish water is supposed to also make the food more aromatic.

[Jenn H]

Doesn’t sound like you were implying THK wasn’t good. Sounds it just isn’t good for your dog.
Have you asked THK if they have made any changes to the formula or suppliers. Sometimes the most minor changes can be a big deal to some dogs.

Have you tried giving your dog pure pumpkin when they have diarrhea and when changing foods? Goat milk (raw if you can get it or THK has some) or some kind of probiotics also works well for runny butts.

[Jenn H]

I just read something today from Dr. Becker regarding Royal Canin and the ingredient changes since being sold to Mars.
The article she sites is a couple yrs old, but it’s likely relevant still. It’s so disappointing the quality of the brand seems to have plummeted. While it doesn’t appear that S/O has the following ingredients, I think anyone feeding RC will want to be on high alert to possible changes.
They now include in their recipe:
-hydrolyzed poultry by-products aggregate (feather meal)
-soy
-worm meal
Always check new bags/can of Royal Canin before feeding in case that particular recipe has been made with the new ingredients.

[Jenn H]

Ah puppies & diarrhea. There’s a million causes.
Given that he’s been having to adjust to new environments in his short life I’m going to keep my fingers crossed that it’s just stress/excitement.
To help him symptomatically make sure the rice you give him is white rice. Brown can be more difficult to digest. When you make the rice save the water it’s boiled in and pour it over food and/or give it to drink.
Pumpkin is a great help in relieving diarrhea. 1 tsp/10 #s.
I have also had great luck with probiotics. An easy 1 to get a hold of is Nutri-vet Food Transition. It’s at Petco & comes in packets or tabs. It’s not expensive. Works great.
Then there’s my all time favorite thing and that’s raw goat milk.
When giving probios or goat milk wait 2 hrs before or 4 hrs after meals if on an antibiotic.
If you think he has a chicken allergy you can try giving him organic ground beef w/ the least amt of fat you can get. Boil it like you would the chicken.
I usually get i/d cans when my dogs need to be on a bland diet. It’s a prescription food. But it makes me feel better to add the rice, chicken/beef to supplement the food because then I know it’s balanced. This is obviously a diet that isn’t meant to be fed for too long. Especially with a growing pup.
Ask the vet to hold off on vaccines until his immune system isn’t busy fighting something else or he’s less stressed. Also I personally prefer to spread out vaccines at least 2 wks apart. I don’t do combos. (Except the parvo. It only comes that way.) It’s easier on the immune system and if there’s a reaction I can know which was the cause. And I only do the core vaxx. Understand that I am not an anti-vaxxer. Just not an over-vaxxer. It took me 30+ yrs of raising dogs and other animals to figure out that they don’t need a lot of the stuff we shoot them up with. And the difference between vaccinating and immunization. And what the shots do when an animal isn’t in optimal health at the time they receive them.
Sometimes dogs lick their paws because they have a fungus. That’s not always a sign of allergies. So if eliminating chicken doesn’t help, try looking into that.
Good luck with your new puppy. Congratulations!

[Jenn H]

Everything I have learned about diet for dogs w/ cancer is high protein, low carbs. Not the easiest foods to find and/or afford (if on a tight budget).
Whenever I’ve had dogs with cancer I head right to the integrated vet. He’s great at mixing & matching treatments, diets, supplements, etc using holistic (not necessarily homeopathic) and convential medicine. If you can find a good vet like that it’s worth a try.
Some vet hospitals also have nutritionists that do consults. For a fee of course.
I’m really into raw goat milk. Check out the Primal or Answers site for info on its benefits.
Good luck & good health to your dogs. I hope they all stay healthy & have long wonderful lives. I feel for you.

[Jenn H]

I’m not sure if you are aware that approx 80% of vitamin C is from China. Although we may buy a product made & sourced from the US, Canada, Australia, the vitamin C in it is likely from China. They seem to have some sort of monopoly on the stuff.
Even vitamin companies are forced to use it from China. It’s very difficult (thus not cost effective) to use vitamin C that doesn’t come from there. I don’t know why it can’t be made more affordable here.

I am glad to see another person who doesn’t even give toys made in China. I know people think I’m crazy because they don’t actually eat the toys, but they can still ingest something harmful. Look at the kids who wore jewelry from there. They didn’t have to eat it to be sick. But they touch it and put fingers in their mouth. And EVERYTHING goes in a dog’s mouth.

[Jenn H]

The common factors of those cases were all dogs were fed Fromm and many acquired a bacteria. That’s more than a coincidence to me. The fact that not all dogs got/get sick from that brand could be for a variety of reasons: individual dog has enough of good bacteria to not be affected, size of dog, certain probios it may be given, general health, recent antibiotic treatment, hospitalization…
While there are too many unknowns to blame the food, the coincidences are enough for me to avoid it for now. I have an adult GSD that has been thru 2 tx of a/b for Lyme and a puppy. I feel their immune systems are not strong/developed enough to take on a stubborn bacterium like C.diff.
I certainly can’t completely protect them from the bacterium short of putting them in a bubble, I can avoid potential/suspected things that may have spores.
C.diff can be anywhere. It’s passed on from feces and easily spread to surfaces, objects and food if the infected person doesn’t wash their hands. It’s also in soil, air, water, food (especially meat). The spores can survive weeks to months.
For now anyway I am going to choose another food for their rotation and continue with the raw goat milk in order to hopefully continue to arm them with plenty of good bacteria and build strong immune systems.
I may eventually feed them Fromm in the future, but I cannot take any risks like that right now.

If the company isn’t aware of these cases I wouldn’t expect them to recall anything. I’m not sure how many of the complainants and vets notified them. That’s a disservice to Fromm. I’m sure they would want to know and investigate. Not having this info doesn’t give them an opportunity to remedy any problems that may exist or rebut the claims. This leaves consumers like me who can’t have dogs that can’t afford an infection to steer clear just in case.
Communication is key to keep everyone in the know, honest, accountable, protected and help them improve a product. It doesn’t do much good overall to leave a bad review on a site, but not tell the source about their issues.

[Jenn H]

If you do a search on this forum “Fromm Dog Food Dangers” you will find that many dogs were getting sick (some dying) from C. Diff. It’s a potentially fatal type of bacteria that grows in the gut. It usually grows out of control when someone has been on a powerful antibiotic for a while. The good bacteria is killed as well as the bacteria the a/b is targeting.
The comments go back to 2013. There was never any public recall as far as I know. It takes a lot of complaints for a company or FDA to recall. That’s no excuse for a company to not do a voluntary recall. (Assuming they were aware of the problems.)
Either way I have to air on the side of caution and I won’t be switching to Fromm. I would feel much better about a company that voluntarily recalled their products than one that waits for FDA to do it. Even though I can’t say for sure that Fromm knew about the problems or not, I won’t take that chance with my dogs’ lives.

[Jenn H]

I have to say that raw unpasteurized goat milk has been a lifesaver. I wish I knew about it years ago. It’s considered a super food. And I never really thought it was all that it was cracked up to be until I had was so desperate for anything to work in a particular situation.
If you have a certified organic farmer that sells it near you or at a farmer’s market get it. That’s the least expensive.
If you can’t find it locally try a small mom & pop pet store that sells raw diets. That’s where I end up getting it most of the time. My store sells Primal brand.
Online you can try The Honest Kitchen Pro Bloom. It’s dehydrated. More reasonably priced than Primal.
If you look on the Answers website they have tons of info & links about the million benefits of raw goat milk.
Like I said I didn’t believe it til I tried it. Now I swear by it. Since giving it to my dog with Lyme she hasn’t needed any anti-inflammatory drugs and her stomach didn’t get upset from the antibiotic this time.
The puppy has been having diarrhea off & on for some unknown reason. Since giving it to him daily no more diarrhea.
Every morning about 20-30 min before breakfast I give them pure pumpkin mixed with raw goat milk.
It has been a miracle. I really can’t say enough about it. I suggest trying that before spending a ton of money on nutritionists. I really think you’ll find improvement pretty quickly.

[Jenn H]

I do not know off hand. I’ll get the info I have and get back to you.

[Jenn H]

Olga I don’t think it’s wrong to feed a vegetarian diet. It’s the vegan nonsense that has me reeling.
Plenty of dogs do well as vegetarians.
I do however think it isn’t right to feed them vegetarian just because the owner is vegetarian. I am vegetarian, but I don’t push it on my animals. (Honestly I am only veg becasue I don’t like meat texture.) Well except the rabbit & the horse. That’s not really a push. That’s who they are. Dogs are more carnivorous than humans. It is what it is.
If there was a medical reason for feeding veg I would & have absolutely do/done that.

I think it was you who suggested antlers for the teeth. But I think that goes against the vegan goal. That’s part of an animal.

[Jenn H]

Olga is right on to suggest Nupro Joint & Immunity Support. Love that stuff. Since I have GSD I feed it about 1/2 hr before meals. It’s a whole digestive system/absorption thing with GSDs and flax.
Great results with that product.

[Jenn H]

My favorite pro-bio was Wysong. It came in a little bottle w/ a pump. It is very expensive though.
In a pinch I use Nutri-vet food transition packets. You can get it at PetCo. Also works well.
My all time favorite now is raw, unpasteurized goat milk. Only takes 20 min to digest and they absolutely love it. Can’t get enough. (I personally think it’s the nastiest stuff, but it’s not about me.)
I also give them pure pumpkin & bananas. They love that too. Bananas are a very good prebiotic.
If you’re insistent on vegan I guess the raw goat milk won’t be OK for you though.

[Jenn H]

I have no poblem with vegetarian diets for dogs (that are nutritionally balanced of course). I had a dog that couldn’t breakdown animal proteins. (If there were enzymes available for it then I would’ve given him that instead). He was a vegetarian. But still got his protein from eggs. Which is a food that has the highest biological value. Eventually it was realized that a lot of dogs were having difficulty with the most common meats in dog foods because of the sources & inbreeding of the animals, etc. He did fine with kangaroo & rabbit.
Anyway, vegetarian and vegan diet are NOT the same thing. Dogs have been close companions of humans for 45,000 yrs. You bet they have evolved. They are more omnivorous than ever and actually do best on a diet of plants, grains and MEATS. While they can adapt to a WELL-BALANCED vegan diet, they do best with a diet of animal fats & proteins.
Vegetarian & vegan diets require adding synthetic amino acids. Dogs cannot produce these very important elements themselves. Make sure none of that is sourced from China.
If you go to certain parts of the world you will see lots of dogs on the streets surviving on whatever they find. While that shows they can adapt, I wouldn’t exactly say they are thriving.
As for the dogs that have lived well into their 20s on vegan diets I don’t believe they aren’t getting appropriate proteins somewhere. I would bet they eat other animals. Mice, birds, whatever they hunt unknowingly to their people.
The cattle dog you mentioned admittedly wasn’t vegetarian. But I also have to say that I doubt Guiness followed that dog through its whole life. Who’s to say it was 29? Were they able to prove it by means other than a birth certificate? I couldn’t find any other means used to prove the ages of the oldest dogs. It appears they were (assuming their ages were real) the exceptions. Miracles really.
We all want our dogs to live as long as us with the best quality of life. Sometimes that means not anthropromorphizing them, doing/feeding things that are disgusting to us, but necessary to them. Or making difficult choices that will break our hearts, but will relieve them of pain. They are dogs. They are not humans. We have a great responsibility & are privileged to provide them with everything they depend on.
I only want what is best for anyone’s animals.
It is incredibly selfish to insist that your dog should be vegan because you are. Even if you supplement appropriately it isn’t the same as getting nutrients from the right food source. “Let your food be your medicine.”
I understand some dogs need to be vegetarians for health reasons. I have been there when other options weren’t available until later in his life. As soon as I discovered other choices I tried them. Because he was a dog. I didn’t love feeding him kangaroo or rabbit (we have rabbit pets. His best friend was a rabbit.) But he didn’t know he was eating cute animals. He only knew & cared that he was eating and not feeling bad afterward.
I should mention that I have only ever had GSDs my entire life. None of them that I raised developed arthritis or hd. Others I have adopted/fostered improved almost instantly once given an appropriate diet & exercise for that individual dog. Right now I have 3 dogs and 5 different foods because all of them need different things at the moment.
My point is just do what is best for the dog. Don’t push your beliefs on them. They don’t care. Feed them meat products. Even if it’s just eggs and raw goat milk. But make sure they get a balanced diet. If they live to be 20+ that’s awesome if they are healthy, happy, pain-free. If they live to be a happy & loved 10 year old without any suffering, then you’ve done your job.
Their time with us flies by. Enjoy them fully. Love them completely.

[Jenn H]

I absolutely agree with you on their reputation. That’s why I am closely watching the outcome of those situations. It would be very disappointing if these illnesses were more than a coincidence and the company wasn’t honest.
It’s safe to say we’re all very cautious these days when it comes to dog food. Probably more so than is necessary. I want to be fair to Fromm knowing their history isn’t marred with negativity. So I am trying to not jump to conclusions.
On the other hand I feel that when we have any info we have a responsibility to share it and let others decide what to do with it.
I am not by any means saying they are bad, dishonest, corrupt, harmful, etc. These were just a few incidents that could be coincidence. And not knowing the person who is having a sample tested personally, I can’t go by their character. All I have right now are a few complaints. They concern me enough at the moment to reconsider the food for my dogs until I dig deeper.

[Jenn H]

Despite the fact that TOTW is now being copacked by Diamond I was this close to putting them back in the rotation for my GSD. There’s so few appropriate LBP choices. Even when they say they are for LBPs. Since not having heard any recent bad news about them I was going to contact for calcium amounts.
Thanks for doing the leg work & sharing.
I’m probably going to end up biting the bullet and spending the big bucks on Orijen or Acana also. It’s only for a couple months. Then I’ll switch to something else.

[Jenn H]

I was also going to suggest LID.
A long time ago I had a dog that couldn’t eat the usual proteins like chicken & beef. This was before there were so many dogs effected by allergies so our options were very limited and very expensive.
If he could’ve lived forever I would’ve probably tried enzymes, pineapple, probiotics, pure pumpkin. All things I have found go help my dogs after him.
If he was here today I would probably be giving him raw goat milk. I swear that stuff is good for everything and everyone.
Good luck on your search. I hope your dog gets some relief soon.

[Jenn H]

I live near Boston. When I needed to get specific dietery advice it was recommended to me to call Tufts Veterinary School. They are 1 of the best.
They will do a phone consultation and it isn’t cheap.
I can dig up the info if you’d like.
Good luck.

[Jenn H]

I don’t believe that anyone would even consider feeding a scavenging carnivore a vegan diet. Don’t say you care about the humane treatment of any animal, then put a dog on a vegan diet. THAT is cruel.
The proteins from plants are not the same as the proteins from meat. Nor are they digested the same.
I don’t believe everything I read & see. I’m not a fool. Thus I don’t believe that dog lived that long on a vegan diet. I find it hard to believe that dog even lived that long. And if it did how was its health? Was he suffering? Was he uncomfortable? Was he healthy? Was he kept alive that long because his owner was so extreme in her beliefs to not kill an animal that his life was not one of quality in his later years?

DO NOT FEED A VEGAN DIET TO YOUR CARNIVOROUS PET IF YOU TRULY LOVE & CARE ABOUT THEM. THEY ARE NOT HUMANS. STOP ANTHROPROMORPHIZING THEM TO AN EXTREME.

• This reply was modified 8 years, 5 months ago by Jenn H. Reason: Misspelled word

[Jenn H]

I’m a little concerned about Fromm food. This is at least the 4th time I’ve seen someone say their dog got a bacterial infection from the food in 2 days.
I am looking to switch my GSD puppy and this was at the top of my list.
1 person (on another site) said Fromm told her they tested the sample she sent and found nothing wrong. The kicker is that she hadn’t yet sent them the sample. They outright lied to her. She did send it to an independent facility at a vet school and is awaiting the results.
As per usual it will take a lot of sick dogs and people & vets complaining to the co & FDA before anything is actually looked into.
Thought I’d share what I just learned. It’s very disappointing. This has always been a favorite food of mine.
Just be observant of any changes in your dogs if you feed this.

[Author]

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