[aquariangt]

To double up on what BCN said, it is very hard to crate train when they don’t care that they are making a mess, so you need to make it very positive to NOT have accidents. As Labs said, take the puppy out a ton, and reward them for going outside. Be diligent. Feed, wait 20 minutes, outside. Then pay attention, when she needs to go out, do it. Having a puppy equates to less sleep 🙂 When she is to the point where she isn’t having accidents in the crate-well, then the crying you have to ignore. Give her a toy, or a special blanket, see if it helps calm her down. I would also do her final feeding much, much earlier than bedtime, and go out at least 2 more times. If she is still pooping at that point, I would say something is wrong

Also-part of it may lie in C4C’s question, and is the poop firm? runny? If it’s always runny, i’d switch foods (I would anyway, Diamond is not trustworthy) but I’ve never had a pup have that many issues from deworming.

[aquariangt]

Every dog is different, so hard to predict, also depends on her condition. If she is in ideal condition maybe try 2/3 cup and see if that helps, but id definitely add pumpkin or probiotics, and honestly, id switch foods after this long

[aquariangt]

That’s a long time for digestive upset. I also wonder of its too much food? 1cup seems like alot. I’ve never used whole earth farms so don’t know kcals off the top of my head, but mine are 20 and 18 and they get 2/3 cup of most brands, and a bit less of some

[aquariangt]

Hi Susan,

As stated to you already in this thread, the Duck and Potato is already covered in this review:

/dog-food-reviews/4health-grain-free-dog-food-dry/

Being that it has no note saying it is a different star rating than the overall coverage of the review, it has the same star rating as the whitefish and potato

[aquariangt]

Which wellness and fromm did you try? Perhaps there is something that he isn’t reacting well to in one of them. If you say which blends you used, maybe we could try to pinpoint a few ingredients to try eliminating.

[aquariangt]

Haha, akari- if you bought no food or litter, how long would you be set for?

[aquariangt]

I read the first one, and the 2nd one I couldn’t find any information on Diamond. The first one was posted a year after the most recent Diamond mega recall.

While I applaud them for attempting to get things turned around, I still am leary and won’t be feeding their foods anytime soon. In a few years, if they’ve cleaned up their act…maybe, but still unlikely. There are plenty of foods out there that I like more than the majority of Diamond products anyway. I like that they have some affordable lines of decent quality, but for me, it’s not really worth the risk-and like I said, they still have to be clean for a few more years before I could even in good conscience recommend them.

As far as the probiotics and glucosamine you are looking for-there are other foods out there that add that, or you can add them yourself (I use supplements all the time with the dogs)

[aquariangt]

Susan, the first link that DogFoodie posted does include the duck and potato, if you read down, it shows which formulas are reviewed in that group.

I do see the chicken and vegetables on tractor supplies website, but I wonder if the last time the review was updated, that it wasn’t available, so that’s why it wasn’t included. You can submit a request for it to be reviewed under the contact us tab on the bottom of the screen.

I would have to agree with DF on the note of Diamond not making it to editor’s choice based on their poor history. recently I’ve seen complaints about the Costco line-similar to TS they have diamond manufacture their house brand. If they can go without a recall for a few more years, maybe they could make it to consideration, but for the time being, there are still too many in recent years with poor handling to most likely make the cut

[aquariangt]

Thanks. Marie sent it to me too, and then I subscribed. I’ve used the patties before, never the nuggets. I’ll have to try it. Do any of you have success with this with your cats?

[aquariangt]

Primal Coupons? Is that from signing up for their mailing list?

[aquariangt]

/contact-us/suggest-dog-food-review/

You fill that form out-my guess is its in the works, since Fromm is both editor’s choice, and a fairly popular food

[aquariangt]

Fromm is already an editor’s choice brand, when they review the new Gold Grain Free Line, it’ll get added to the rest of the editor’s choice list

[aquariangt]

I think when I last checked, Orijen’s calcium levels were too high for a large breed-I may be wrong, but definitely click the links DogFoodie linked, that will get you started in the right direction

[aquariangt]

Hi Catherine- I and love and you’s canned and dehydrated foods are a bit newer to the market. You can request a review here:

/contact-us/suggest-dog-food-review/

They may already be in the works. I work in Boulder, and have used both the canned and dehydrated, I like them! They are a cool company as well

[aquariangt]

I believe it gets applied on your first order? Or it may be for when you setup auto shipping. Free shipping with Chewy is when it gets to $49

[aquariangt]

They are really low in protein, if I were to use the grain inclusives, I would definitely be adding extra meat

[aquariangt]

INGREDIENTS: Chicken Meal, Millet, Chicken Fat, Pumpkin Seed, Yeast Culture, Spray Dried Chicken Liver, Dried Eggs, Suncured Alfalfa Meal, Montmorillonite Clay, Kelp, Cheese Powder, Porcine Plasma, Dried Tomato, Almonds, Dried Chicory Root, Dried Carrot, Dried Apple, Sardine Meal, Egg Shell Meal, Dried Pumpkin, Dried Apricot, Dried Blueberry, Dried Spinach, Dried Broccoli, Dried Cranberry, Parsley, Dried Artichoke, Rosemary, Mixed Tocopherols, Dried Lactobacillus Acidophilus Fermentation Product, Dried Lactobacillus Casei Fermentation Product, Dried Bifidobacterium Bifidium Fermentation Product, Dried Enterococcus Faecium Fermentation Product, Dried Bacillus Coagulans Fermentation Product, Dried Pineapple Extract, Dried Aspergillus Niger Fermentation Extract, Dried Aspergillus Oryzae Fermentation Extract, Dried Trichoderma Longibrachtum Fermentation Extract

INGREDIENTS: Duck Meal, Millet, Turkey Meal, Chicken Fat, Salmon Meal, Pumpkin Seed, Yeast Culture, Spray Dried Chicken Liver, Dried Egg Product, Suncured Alfalfa Meal, Montmorillonite Clay, Dried Kelp, Cheese Powder, Spray Dried Porcine Plasma, Dried Tomato, Almonds, Dried Chicory Root, Dried Carrot, Dried Apple, Sardine Meal, Egg Shell Meal, Dried Pumpkin, Dried Apricot, Dried Blueberry, Dried Spinach, Dried Broccoli, Dried Cranberry, Parsley, Dried Artichoke, Rosemary, Mixed Tocopherols, Dried Lactobacillus Acidophilus Fermentation Product, Dried Lactobacillus Casei Fermentation Product, Dried Bifidobacterium Bifidium Fermentation Product, Dried Enterococcus Faecium Fermentation Product, Dried Bacillus Coagulans Fermentation Product, Dried Pineapple Extract, Dried Aspergillus Niger Fermentation Extract, Dried Aspergillus Oryzae Fermentation Extract, Dried Trichoderma Longibrachtum Fermentation Extract

Two different NL formulas. Similar, but not exactly the same. You would certainly need to analyze the full formula with the amount that is in each to get a proper analysis on it. Not good business practice not too, imo

[aquariangt]

Completely depends on the store. PetSmart and PetCo have barely been able to answer simple questions I’ve had, and I don’t ask anything crazy (arrogantly, I assume I know more than most of their floor staff so I don’t ask anything about manufacturing or other more difficult details-not necessarily right of me to assume) but things like “Kibble Size” shouldn’t be too off the wall.

As far as smaller stores-I do expect them to be able to answer manufacturing questions and the like, I don’t need much help, but certain things like that, kibble size, consistency of wet foods (that one really bugs me, when they cant answer me about chunky, shredded, pate, etc for cat foods) so having that information is good for staff to be able to answer. My biggest pet peeve is when they have outdated information about something. Again, this is usually me overhearing them speak to others, but it is hard for me to not jump in when it comes to outdated manufacturing knowledge, people who talk about protein levels incorrectly, comments about what is and isn’t good for dentals…

So again, depends what kind of store you work in, but up to date knowledge, and being able to answer questions about ingredients and style of the food-that’s all id be looking for if I didn’t already know the answers to

[aquariangt]

Yeah, I don’t mind a bit of crunch, those meatball things were just over the top. With your recommendations, hopefully that will be a filler to my order that won’t end up in the trash 😉

[aquariangt]

@naturella I may test that out and see if it works so I don’t have to waste the whole bag, and stuff it in a monster mouth or something. I’ve used exactly 4 treats out of the bag

@DogFoodie I may try those next. I usually keep 1 freeze dried and 1 chewy treat (let’s be honest, I usually have quickies and some others around too…) so I like freeze dried, and don’t mind breaking up big ones, my hands are used to be being gross after training anyway 🙂

[aquariangt]

Yes, it’s the potroast ones, I saw meatball on the bag and apparently that stuck. I’ve used tons of freeze dried treats and never had ones that are this hard so that’s why I was wondering if I got a bad bag. I’ve never used anything from GL before either. Size wise they would be great if they weren’t so dang hard. I swear every treat I get when trying to get to my $49 from Chewy when it’s something I haven’t tried ends up in the garbage, haha!

Have any of you tried the Vital Essentials Tripe Treats? I was eying those for my next order

[aquariangt]

I’ve never fed Canine Caviar, but know of some people that have, so hopefully they chime in when they see this.

I’d never feed Taste of the Wild as it is a diamond brand.

Natural Balance is A. Owned by Del Monte so that is questionable for sourcing and ingredients, and B. Low in protein for my liking

Timberwolf looks pretty nice, but I’ve never used it, it’s not very available to me, I believe they are severed from Diamond at this point?

Addiction is on the low end of protein I’d feed, but haven’t honestly known of anyone who feeds it.

So, my answer: The two widely available foods (Nat Bal and TotW) I won’t go near, the other three are all a bit less common, so I don’t have a lot of experience there. But there are many other grain frees I do recommend

[aquariangt]

Feeding 1/2 cup a day less would add up quite a bit-and around here, the 30lb bag of Fromm Gold is cheaper than TotW, from a far superior company. If you’re looking to save more than a buck or two, I’m not sure there is anything most would recommend to get to under $40 for a large bag of food

[aquariangt]

What a pleasant way for you to join us! In general, people on DFA are a bit more pleasant than other forums, but thanks for the comment.

Sorry, but I didn’t notice I hit submit enter without the rest of the information. Fromm Gold Puppy is about 50 calories more per cup, so while the bag may be more expensive, you would be feeding less than you would Taste of the Wild, which is a crap food anyway. All of these things are figured out via basic research. Since you say it’s breaking your wallet and he eats a lot of food, I assume its a large breed, so make sure you are feeding a large breed puppy appropriate food. There is a huge thread on this forum about appropriate large and giant breed puppy foods, as well as a list on page 36 from a very informed on the subject member that has a simple list of approved foods for growth in LGP

Have a nice day

[aquariangt]

Fromm Gold Puppy

[aquariangt]

Akari-are you using a premix of any sort? Are there those for cats? Or are you just doing a full on homeade raw?

[aquariangt]

I can’t find the GA on the site. That always wierds me out

[aquariangt]

Awesome! What breed?

[aquariangt]

I don’t foresee either of those brands ever making editor’s choice.

Blue has a history of quality control issues, as well as some dishonesty with their ingredients. They use a myriad of co packers and don’t care to disclose much, if any, information.

Natural Balance is owned by Del Monte now. The quality of ingredients has gone down some since the purchase, and knowing DM, I would expect that to continue

[aquariangt]

Flint River Ranch is a mid range food, low in protein, high in carbs for my liking. Not sure about calcium levels though, you would probably have to contact them for that. Other than those few tidbits, all I know about them is a lot of breeders seem to sell it, and I don’t really see it in stores or online. bit odd to me

Blue uses a MYRIAD of copackers, that’s one of my biggest issues with them.

[aquariangt]

I have nothing to add, as I haven’t had a large breed puppy in about 13 years, but to piggyback on Akari’s link, the most recent list is page 36. I don’t know how much it changed from the earlier ones, but HDM has a lot of experience with that size dogs, and has done lots of research (the links are in the first few pages)

I’d also agree about Blue-I don’t touch them, but there are a few foods that I don’t mind from the big chain stores, though I order a lot online myself

[aquariangt]

Welcome to DFA! First and very foremost, I want to see puppy pictures ASAP

Wellness and Nature’s Variety are personally the only foods that you listed that I would feed. As far as price goes, the Nature’s Variety Instinct will be cheaper than the raw boost as well, but still all are less than Orijen. Acana is more reasonable.

Where are you shopping? From the list you posted, I’d guess PetSmart or PetCo? Wellness CORE and NVI are the two best brands there probably, though at Petsmart they also have Nulo which is nice, and Simply Nourish Source-which I’ve used but I’ve heard a few things about some of their storage issues lately, its been a while since i’ve used that at all. There is also Freshet and Nature’s Variety Raw there if you were interested in going that direction however, Champion foods would probably be cheaper.

Now, on to other stores:

Fromm Gold Puppy i like a lot, and they just came out with Fromm Gold Grain Free. Fromm 4Star Grain Free is also suitable for all life stages-my most recommended and favorite brand.

Earthborn’s Grain Free line is all life stages and I like that a lot as well.

Go! Has a nice puppy food as well. Victor as well. There are many others that are great, just a few i like.

I would start with getting a bag of pro plan, whichever the breeder is on. Feed at least a week if not two of just that, don’t mix anything. Let the puppy get acclimated to your house and you. After a few weeks, start mixing in something new. After that, transition to yet another brand/protein. With puppies, if you start them on a rotational diet, they will be able to transition cold turkey in not too long, which is great, as a rotational diet is the best way to go.

[aquariangt]

18 and 20 lbs, so just a bit bigger than Bruno

[aquariangt]

I use both those earthborns and they’re good, so yay!

It’s really the reason I don’t use Acana, the kibble is so darn big

[aquariangt]

Ordering online may work (I do it a lot), but I definitely saw Acana and Orijen last time I was out there. Whatever their big box store was had some foods (cant remember off the top of my head) but in a few specialty shops I went to I saw Champion Foods out there. What brands are in the stores you go to? I think applaws is a uk brand as well

[aquariangt]

Man, i’d love to get Victor locally too!

C4C and Naturella have given you plenty of great advice, but I have an off topic question sorta

@Naturella What is the kibble size on the Nulo Lamb and Lentil? I’d like to try it for Dani since there are so few lamb formulas out there that are high in protein

[aquariangt]

Liesl will really only play with treat dispensing toys or toys/puzzles to eat out of. I’m trying to teach her to play, so we will see if the toy collection adds up. For those types of toys: Monster Mouth, Kongs, Various Puzzles by Nina Ottenson, The Pickle Pocket, Westpaw Toppl… some of my favorites

Dani will tug and chase, one of my absolute favorites is The Bumi by Westpaw, it tugs and throws far for fetch, so we get pretty rowdy with that one. Genuine Dog Gear has my favorite Tug toy, that only comes out for training.

We aren’t big fans of balls or squeakers in my house, but my sisters westie is just nuts for them. The brands we get for him that are huge hits: Kong AirSqueaker Balls, FurBalls, and the Petstages big rubber chickens/ducks/hippos. And he doesn’t kill those ones!

Another note, my other sister’s st Bernard/great dane that eats everything (other issue…we aren’t in charge of our family’s pets, right?) I got them a tirebiter hoping for it to be a good sturdy toy. She ate it.

[aquariangt]

My favorite YouTube channel for finding fun new tricks is kykopup

[aquariangt]

I am, part time, unfortunately. I’d love to make it full time, and while I have some plans potentially in the works, it will be a while before that goes on. To be able to sustain as that being your source of income, you have to really have a niche in the market that is already saturated. I’m not really a behaviorist, and I’m not sure that’s the direction I want to go in, so that’s the majority of what people are looking for. While I do agility and teach some basics, I have no titles (yet ;-)) so there’s another big revenue draw. Right now I do group classes of obedience and agility for the typical pet dog, and that’s good enough for the time being :). Grew up with it, showed in 4h when I was younger, led 4h as I got older, and never could fully separate from the dog world. Food service is fun too though 😛

And what you are doing with Lily is great, it’s the same concept as what I said with the cars, and have used the same technique with Liesl-most positive trainers use the same things, which is why nothing I do I would consider “proprietary” as Naturella asked

[aquariangt]

Treat parties for new commands and commands you struggle with are great! Nothing wrong with extra treats for something tough, I often make one little treat last forever (great for stays especially) mixing all those tactics together is great, and it’s good to keep me guessing. For old things I also move into treating every 2-4 times instead of every time, the. Two in a row, then skip a few, etc… When you are getting ready for the good citizen for example, you can’t have treats, so it’s good to get to that point without treats. And I see no problem with giving lots of high value treats for learning things, I don’t only pull them out a couple times in a session.

Unless any of you are planning on coming to Colorado for dog training, you aren’t clients that would normally pay me, so I have no problems sharing 🙂 ( I do however get loads of people mooching for free advice, mostly I don’t care but if it’s intensive, I’ll tell them to setup an appointment. The worst is people who call me about dog training that I don’t know from Adam, and ask me a million questions hoping for free answers, grr…) anyhow, off topic, you all are my internet dog friends so no worries.

Counter conditioning is quite simple, and exactly what it sounds like. Helping your dog not be afraid or anxious in a situation that puts them over threshold, causes fear, or is otherwise a hard position for them to be in. I do this the exact opposite way of what you see the dog whisperer do on tv ;-). I’ll use my sisters Westie for a really basic example with cars. He was terrified of them (can’t blame that eh?) but it was to the point where he would yank, bark, go crazy- unsafe really. So every time a car drove by, we worked on focusing on her, making her a pez dispenser, hand out as many treats as he would take, and reward when the car was gone. Clickers help with this as well. Eventually he got to the point where he could sit and focus without treats, and then click and treat party. Now she doesn’t even have to stop walking, but from time to time gives him a treat anyway. This tactic can be used for a lot of different counter conditioning, and I really like the clicker and having some shaping skills worked in for a lot of it as well

[aquariangt]

I keep 3-4 treats on me at a time. Regular, bulk of what I’m using treats-usually 2 varieties (i try to keep it low cal as possible) A high Value Treat, a treat too of natural unsweetened peanut butter. With Dani I also keep both a fleece tug and a Bumi for throwing, as those are rewarding to her and good for certain speed situations. Liesl has no interest in that 🙂

The regular treats i use (i like to use 2 for variety) for just run of the mill training, walks, classes, completing obstacles, etc… I throw in a high value treat every now and then to keep them on their toes 😉 I also use them for certain things they may be struggling with-say Bruno was having a lot of trouble with his recall, use a high value treat. I almost always use high value treats when training Leave It. Peanut Butter I only use for 2 things (usually, those big eyes can turn me into a sucker dad) Recalls, and completing a course in agility.

That was all a jumbled mess. my short version:

Low Value (as Dori said, not low quality, just less exciting): Everyday training, commands they know, group classes for warm up etc…
Examples: Zukes, Boulder Dog Food Chicken Bits, The Honest Kitchen Quickies, Bare Bites

High Value: Commands you’re struggling with, counter conditioning fear, recalls (maybe), Leave Its
Examples: Freeze Dried Stuff (Simply Sojos, Stella and Chewys, Fresh is Best)

Special High Value Awesomeness: I like this for recalls because they are so important, and then after a course or something where they don’t get a ton of treats
Examples: For me-Peanut Butter because they love it. I would possible lump in the Fresh is Best freeze dried organ meats as well, because I’ve seen dogs fall off of things for it 😉

Hope that was semi helpful

[aquariangt]

Not on editor’s choice, no, but as a company, I think Precise is really solid. I haven’t ever used anything but the Nutrisource company, but based on the people here that recommend it, I wouldn’t be afraid to.

Personally, Precise is too low in protein for my liking to feed long term, so I don’t usually use it for anything more than transitional purposes, but they are a family owned company, they have their own manufacturing plant, and no recalls.

[aquariangt]

Uh, ok

[aquariangt]

My issue with mixing would be if a problem arose, you may not know which food caused the problem.

Other than that, I agree with naturella, I have 2 20 lb dogs that don’t share food, they only go through a 5 lb bag in about a month, so that would last me far too long

[aquariangt]

Read my first post, that explains how everything the rating system works. Reading forums, review comments, and joining editors choice gives you more insight into the company. There is no real way to grade the quality of ingredients other than what the ingredient panel says, as well as judging the company itself based on a bag. Follow the grade system, but ou must do,your own research as well, to keep informed on that end. Blue buffalo looks good on paper, just often not in practice.

The other thing to keep in mind is there is no food that is perfect for all dogs.

[aquariangt]

If you’re wanting a frozen cooked or raw product, there are some others you should check out over Biljac-it’s still not the best. I probably would feed it over Blue personally because I have extreme distrust of that company, but Biljac isn’t something I would feed either. The ingredients aren’t great, and for a product in that style, it’s protein level is pretty low (lower than most kibble I feed, if not all-when I use raw or cooked I use it as a topper and use it to really get that protein level up without a lot of added crap).

I would check out Nature’s Variety or Freshpet, both available where Biljac is, or if you shop at smaller food stores, there are even more available

[aquariangt]

It sometimes takes a bit to switch, especially if the dog isn’t used to it. I would probably go back to the Eukanuba until everything is firmed up, and use a bit of pumpkin with each meal as well. Once that’s good to go, try a transitional food-something in between Eukanuba and Wellness. My recommendation for that is usually Precise, and I’ve seen people suggest Nutrisource as well. Once you’ve transitioned to that, then go for Wellness or another 4.5-5 star food if that is your target. Once your dog is used to transition you should be able to do it seamlessly. For example, I switch foods every bag cold turkey, no issues. Some even do every meal

[aquariangt]

As Marie said, the food is solely rated on the ingredient panel, and the nutritional and guaranteed analyses. There are plenty of 4 and 5 star foods that most here wouldn’t feed because of the company, and likewise, there are some 3 star foods I would feed instead.

If you join editor’s choice, they go more in depth on the companies themselves as opposed to just the bag of dog food.

I do agree with Akari, Wellness CORE is similar to BB wilderness and a superior product and company, in my opinion

[aquariangt]

I always watch it at some point between Eukanuba and Westminster. And usually a couple other times throughout the year

I loved that Giant Schnauzer too. I was so close to getting one back in December, a friend of a friend lost her job and was getting out of Giants, and just focusing on her minis, so she had 2 females left she was trying to rehome… but decided against it after much deliberation. They are just such awesome dogs, and striking.

[aquariangt]

Bdog, I love best in show!

[Author]

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