[Cameron M]

Jane is extremely helpful in citing reports as though they were facts…which in many cases leads to false assumptions. A report that Bigfoot was sighted is not a fact.

The fact is that if there were actually all these horrible deaths and side effects the drug would be pulled or the FDA would immediately order a full review…something that is not happening as far as I am aware.

The sad part is many come here to decide what flea treament to use and all they get is fear of ANY flea treatment…this one is bad…that one kills dogs left and right…oh noo…for god’s sake don’t use that one blah blah blah.

Mixed in is the under current…well fleas aren’t all that bad ( yes…some misguided person actually said that in so many words…ask really what diseases are spread by fleas ( lots and lots))

The push is for natural organic …which by the way I swear by organic in my life when I can…it doesn’t work down south period end of discussion.

So people coming here for genuine information on WHAT TO USE are scared witless and are afraid to use ANY flea control which in turn makes the poor dogs suffer,

Get facts not junk science out

[Susan]

Yes Marcia you’re right, there’s 3-4 pages of crap & arguing….
Where is “DOG FOOD ADVISOR” Please remove all the bitching comments & leave up the links “Jane” provided, so when people do come onto DFA to look up Bravecto they can read links & make their own minds up…
People PLEASE realise Bravecto does stay in the dogs system longer then the 3 month period, I posted a post just before all the arguing started & Jane backed it up with links…
In Australia vets are recommending to give Bravecto every 4 months instead of the 3 months & if you do not live in a tick infected area & are using Bravecto for fleas then stop giving Bravecto in the cooler months… They have tested dogs that take Bravecto & the dogs still had fluralaner in their system 143 days later…no further test have been released to the public to my knowledge but I bet the fluralaner stays in the dogs system heaps longer then the 143 days….how you’d know if you stop giving the Bravecto chews, see how long it takes for your dog to get fleas & see when there’s a tick on your dog are they dying or dead. One lady found dead tick 9 months later after she had stopped the Bravecto cause her 4yr old dog became ill….
If you have an elderly dog, dog with health problems or a dog that has seizures or Epilepsy please do your research first before giving any Bravecto chews to your dog, read Janes links..

If people still want to argue their point there are 2 live groups on Face Book one is for Bravecto- “Does Bravecto Kill Dogs?” the other group is for Nexgard- “Does Nexgard kill dogs?”

[Susan]

HoundMusic,

I think it’s ridiculous you feed a sick dog a high fat, low quality mince especially when the dog is vomiting & has diarrhea, say that dog has Pancreatitis??..
When was the last time you went to see a vet specialist for a dog with Intestinal problems IBS, IBD, Pancreatitis?
Your talking about feeding litter Puppies, introducing puppies to food….Read original post I’m talking about dogs with intestinal STRESS, sloppy poo’s with mucus & then diarrhea, not 4-6 week old puppies being weaned onto food, even then I still wouldn’t feed a sick puppy any cooked hamburger mince or boiled rice…. When you have a SICK dog with Intestinal Stress feeding greasy hamburger mince with boiled rice, rice has pointed corners that can irritate the bowel…..who’s not to say the dogs in this post aren’t sensitive to chicken like my boy is?? one of the poster’s dog became a bit better after being put on a vet diet while the other dog got diarrhea after eating the Hills wet tin food, like my boy did after eating one of the Hills Intestinal health vet diets, this sounds like food sensitivities to me, food sensitivities/intolerance can take anywhere from 1 day up to 6 weeks to react & show symptoms….Food sensitivities normally start when the dog is around 6-8 months old….
I’m pretty sure when Rich took his dogs to see vet, the vet didn’t suggest to go home & feed some boiled hamburger mince with boiled some rice, if he did I would be changing vets & seeing a younger vet who’s up to date with more modern methods, it sounds like Rich vet knew what he/she was doing & did all the proper tests needed to rule out parasites, parvo, infection etc & placed the dogs on a antibiotic (Flagyl/Metronidazole) & a vet diet till Rich works out what to feed them both….if the dogs were placed on a Hydrolyzed diet or a single novel protein, single carb vet diet I do not know, probably not cause one dog had liquid diarrhea after eating the vet diet…..

I’ll stick with what my Specialist vet recommended to feed, 1 lean novel protein + 1 gluten free carb (Sweet Potato or Potato) he suggested to cook white boneless fish or lean turkey breast + boiled sweet potato, if I didn’t want to cook he recommended feeding a vet diet “Royal Canine” Hydrolyzed wet tin food, Sensitivity Control, Duck & Tapioca dry, PV-Potato & Venison, PR-Potato & Rabbit or PD-Potato & Duck & then when dog is stable & doing firm poo’s start an elimination diet & add 1 cooked ingredient for 6 weeks with their vet diet food….these vet diets are 100% balanced with the right vitamins, minerals, enzymes & you’ll get to the root of the problem by doing an elimination diet like I have done in the past with my IBD boy, when you look at the ingredients in these vet diets you will not find any hamburger mince, chicken, rice….. Sweet Potato + 1 lean novel protein seems to work best for Intestinal health problems especially when you think the dog has food intolerances….
You have your opinion & I have mine…..

[Maria O]

Im sure DFA already knows about it but, yup! S&C has come forth with their own baked raw coated kibble. https://www.stellaandchewys.com/dog-food/raw-coated-kibble/

Just as a disclaimer: I’m a little new into the raw feeding world. I’ve been feeding my pups Primal for about 6 months now due to my beagle’s constant weight fluctuations when on a kibble diet. After weaning her off of the table scraps my family would give her, scheduling her feedings and walks, and going at least 90% commercial raw, she’s been better than I thought she could ever be; the chub she used to have just melted off, and she’s quite the beaut. Not to mention my 7 year old Schnauzer’s been thriving like crazy off of it – no more half eaten bowls. Well thats enough about that ~

I’ve never tried S&C, but I’ve heard its a decent starter brand for those who’d like to try raw feeding with a nice amount of protein options. As a dog food retailer I know the meal mixers are a huge hit, which has earned them a pretty good rep overall.

The S&C company believes that by providing this baked, raw coated kibble, they would be reaching more pets with the benefits of raw. Specifically for those who cant afford a 100% raw diet, whether it be because of time or money. I think they’re hoping for this kibble to be a sort of “gateway” for raw feeding and kibble standards in general.

As you can imagine, there are a couple sides to this:
– Those who think this is just a marketing tactic, a contradicting product, a step backwards, etc.
– Those who think this is a good starting balance for those who simply cant or wont go raw.

As for the kibble ingredients, it looks decent enough, and the baked route certainly stands them out some. I really cant say what I think about it just yet.
What do you think about their decision? Is it a good idea? A bad one? Personal opinions/Thoughts?

[Cameron M]

Lets get a bit silly…you know I love the Sears optical commercial where the woman calls here kitty kitty and a raccoon walks in her house.

Now a report is the next morning this woman wakes up to a raccoon in bed with her and tells the FDA my heavens …I fed my cat Purina Salmon last night and by god by this morning the food turned my cat into a raccoon.

You don’t think this type of nonsense type reports literally flood the FDA or EPA daily?? Think again…there are many nuts out there.

My point being yes…look at good reports …listen…read…and also let the agencies do their jobs and issue facts when called for.

In this case I say there are many good reports and some bad ( considering doses administered). It appears to work…likewise it is new and we do not have long term cancer studies yet.

one dose …likely ok…two …same…10 years worth…dunno yet. Seems promising though

[Cameron M]

Judy – you ask for the article which stated 44k dogs died due to spot treatment for fleas and ticks. I haven’t had a chance to complete my search to find it again but what I did find was a 2009 Scientific American article which has the below quote:

Most of the problems were minor, such as skin rashes, but about 600 dogs and cats died in the incidents reported in 2008, EPA records show.

So 600 dog and cats in 1 year…ok…my statement of 44k may be a low number huh?

Never use a spot treatment. Use oral it is far better.

I agree that in parts of the nation pet owners can get by with no treatment. I grew up in South Eastern PA and in my little corner of PA I never once saw a flea on my dogs…in fact I really didn’t ever see a flea until I moved to FL ( and so you know…we never sprayed for pests nor treated our dogs for fleas…heartworm yes…fleas no) Likewise in VT there are very few flea BUT there are lots of disease carrying ticks.

Bravecto does kill ticks quickly enough to stop transmission of disease ( per the studies). My dog seems fine on her 1st dose of Bravecto…the earth didn’t open up and swallow her but the fleas did die:)

Again..I caution all..I do not plan to give this drug to my gal year round..instead it is my go to for the bad months here in FL and ticks at our 2nd home in VT…thereafter she goes back on Sentinal and I even give that a break if she is up north when snow is on the ground.
Use your heads people…I can dig up stories of people dropping dead from drinking too much water to quickly. Don’t let the sky is falling folks scare you from reading good science and I encourage everyone to do just that. Research, research and then some more…check out the EPA sites…check out the FDA sites but do not listen to the misquoted gloomand doom posted here.

[Jane L]

Very true. One article I read recently said a few years ago cancer was not even in the top ten causes of death in dogs and now it’s the number 1 cause with up to 3 in 5 dogs getting cancer.

Some talk as if there are no other options. It’s only been on the market three years, amazing how we survived up until then isn’t it 😫

[anonymous]

http://skeptvet.com/Blog/2015/08/veterinary-medicine-is-a-business-and-that-includes-alternative-medicine/ Excerpt below, click on link for full article.
Veterinary Medicine is a Business, and that Includes Alternative Medicine
Posted on August 23, 2015 by skeptvet
Bottom Line
The bottom line is that financial bias is a real issue in veterinary medicine at all levels, and it has to be investigated and managed. However, this is not the same as saying there is widespread fraud or a sinister conspiracy involving vets and companies that do business with them. There is no reason to believe that the majority of vets are doing anything other than the best they can to help their patients and clients. And there is absolutely no reason to believe vets offering alternative therapies are any less subject to financial bias or any purer in their motivation or behavior than vets practices science-based medicine.

[anonymous]

Excerpt from: https://www.petcarerx.com/article/what-diseases-do-fleas-cause/163
Fleas may be extremely small, but dangerous things sometimes come in small packages. Guard your dog against the many diseases that fleas carry and transmit.
You may think that these tiny pests only make your pet do a little scratching and itching, but fleas actually cause a number of diseases, some of which can be fatal. By not protecting your pets from fleas, you are exposing them and yourself to severe health risks. Here are some of the diseases your pet could contract:
Plague
Yes, this is the same plague that caused the death of over a third of the European population back in the Middle Ages. While it’s no longer common for humans to get the plague, your pet can still become infected. A flea that has taken a bite out of a infected wild animal, like a prairie dog, chipmunk, or vole, can easily infect a dog or cat and pass along the disease.

Plague-infected cats and dogs will have a fever, swollen lymph nodes, and may even die suddenly without much warning. If you think your pet has the plague, you need to contact your veterinarian immediately and isolate your pet from other animals as to stop the plague from spreading.
Cat Scratch Disease
While Cat Scratch Disease usually does not affect cats in a negative way, it puts their owners at risk. Fleas transmit CSD from one cat to another, and close to 40% of cats will carry this disease at some time in their lives. Humans get CSD when infected flea feces on a cat’s claws or fur is transmitted from the pet to their owner through a bite, lick, or scratch. CSD can cause fever, headaches, and fatigue in humans, as well as make those with a weakened immune system seriously ill.
Tapeworms
How does a dog biting a flea end up with your pet carrying tapeworms? Simple. If the dog eats a flea that is carrying tapeworm eggs inside their bodies, then that pet could soon become infected. Once inside your dog, the tapeworm hatches and attaches itself to your pet’s intestines, causing weight loss, vomiting, and irritation.
Flea Allergy Dermatitis
All it takes is one bite from a flea to cause Flea Allergy Dermatitis, leading to hot spots and extreme itchiness for your pet. Dog hot spots are infected patches of circular skin that could soon become a big wound if your pet continues to itch and bite at it. Even your dog’s tongue licking the wound spreads the bacteria around. If your dog has a hot spot, you should take them to see your vet as soon as possible.
Haemobartonellosis
While usually transmitted by ticks, haemobartonellosis can also be carried by fleas. The disease targets red blood cells and can range from mild to very severe symptoms. If very severe, haemobartonellosis can cause cats to suffer anemia that results in weight loss and a fast heart rate. In some cases, infected cats have been observed eating dirt, and without treatment, cats can die from this disease.

Haemobartonellosis is most likely to affect dogs who have had their spleens removed. It can cause loss of appetite and weight loss for our canine friends.

What’s the best way to keep your pet from suffering from any of these afflictions? Treating them for fleas, of course! There are many options you can choose, from spot on solutions to oral pills. Decide which one is best for your pet, and keep them healthy year round!

[Jane L]

Yes as Susan says the EMA is the European Medicines Agency. They did not do any studies the testing was all done by Merck / MSD with no independent studies. The EMA is where all serious reported adverse reactions and deaths Worldwide are meant to be forwarded within 15 days of the report.

http://www.ema.europa.eu/docs/en_GB/document_library/Newsletter/2017/02/WC500222245.pdf

on page 4 it says:-

‘The MAH was asked to provide a targeted PSUR that should include an
extensive analysis and review of all serious reaction reports with neurological
disorders, skin and appendages disorders, hypersensitivity/immune mediated
reactions and hepatopathy, also with death and death by euthanasia. This
targeted PSUR will be assessed by the CVMP and depending on the outcome
additionally measures will be taken.
In addition, during the last period of surveillance “
lethargy” has been identified and the MAH was requested to update the SPC to include this term in the SPC.’

Anybody can also apply for an ADE report and read the cases which read like these 3 x examples :-

Suspected Adverse Reaction:-
On 5 Feb 2015, a veterinarian reported that a dog had a seizure and weakness approximately 6 hours after receiving half a tablet of Bravecto 1400 mg (over 88 lbs. and up to 123 lbs.) (Extra Label Use-Treatment Program Not Respected) on 3 Feb 2015. The dog had another seizure on 4 Feb 2015. The signs resolved on 5 Feb 2015. Four other dogs were given the product and none of them had a reaction. Follow-up information is pending. Follow-up on 27 Feb 2015 via email: the owner, who is also the vet, reports that the dog had Bravecto on 2 Feb 2015 (previously reported as 3 Feb 2015). Updated patient information was reported (11 yr old female rottie cross). Besides the 2 seizures, which were previously reported, the vet also mentioned that the dog’s legs were very weakened to the point where she could not get up or lie down. Bloodwork, including a 4DX snap test, were negative and skull radiographs were clear. She was circling and head pressing and could only eat if hand fed as standing was very difficult for her. She remained weak and was euthanized on 25 Feb 2015.

***
Suspected Adverse Reaction: On 11 Dec 2015, a veterinary technician reported that a 5-month-old, 2-kilogram dog was taken to the veterinary clinic for grooming on 10 Dec 2015. Before bathing, the dog received a 112.5 mg Bravecto chew. While drying (approximately 30 minutes after Bravecto administration), the dog had a seizure and died. Petechial lesions on the abdomen had also developed. A necropsy had not been performed at the time of the report. Follow-up information is expected. Follow-up on 12 Jan 2016: A necropsy report was received. Gross pathological findings included multifocal petechial hemorrhages of the mucosa/serosa in multiple organ systems, moderate congestion in the coronary and myocardial vessels, and severe congestion of the meninges, which were adhered to the cranium. The presumptive diagnosis was hepatic encephalopathy. Hepatic findings were compatible with hepatic glycogenolysis or glucocorticoid hepatopathy, which is consistent with differentials such as hyperadrenocorticism, severe stress, or an iatrogenic origin (e.g. glucocorticoid administration). The microcirculatory lesions are associated with microcirculatory collapse, shock, and death, which suggests a possible hypersensitivity reaction to products administered to this patient.

*****

Suspected Adverse Reaction: Bravecto 250mg was administered to adog on 13 Nov 2015. One hour later the dog’s skin was red and after that, the dog had seizures. The owner brought the dog to the clinic, but it was dead on arrival, approximately 1.5 hours after administration.

*****

You are all free to use what you wish so if you think the convenience of feeding this insecticide once every 3 months to your dog is worth the risk go right ahead but at least you have read the warnings and know the risk. There are many settlements too if waivers are signed.

[Jane L]

You are wasting your breath obviously once Cameron referee to Snopes 😜 That is quite funny for some talking science!

For anyone interested Snopes have not updated their unproven statement from June 2015 on Duncan’s death in spite of being provided with his MSD cases number, letters to owner from Merck and paid vet bills on the owners surviving dog. This case was the first to hit the news and another 4000 odd cases / 900 approx. deaths have followed on. If these reported cases are just 1% as they say is the norm then obviously this is a massive issue. I think with groups now in so many Countries anybody with half a brain can see there is a big problem here. So be aware if you dog reacts there is no antidote and so far there are no clues why some are react so violently and others days after dose 3 or more and others appear fit after over two years. If you love your dog why take the risk especially as it does not even prevent tick disease and works by your dogs blood feeding parasites? Surely a deterrent to prevent the bite is preferable?

Unproven does not mean it did not happen it means there is not 100% proof of the cause. It’s the 100% conclusive scientific proof that appears impossible but if you feed you dog one of these so called ‘tasty treats’ and within minutes on many occasions it starts seizing I think you know the cause. The intelligence of someone referring to Snopes as the fountain of all knowledge is laughable 🙄😫

Anybody interested in reading facts just apply to the EMA and read the cases and see how they singled it out at the January meeting for targeted PSUR’s.

[Susan]

Hi Rich, click on this link, Clean Label Project,
http://www.cleanlabelproject.org/product-ratings/pet-food/ scroll down & read the kibbles & wet foods that had the most toxic chemicals, arsenic, lead & cadmium, most were pet foods that had fish as the main protein, last yea I started feeding Patch the “Holistic Select” Adult/Puppy, Salmon, Anchovy & Sardines made by Well Pet who make’s Wellness another kibble Patch did well on then went down hill after 2-3months, his stomach & bowel seems to know when a kibble isn’t right & something is wrong, now I know why after reading the Clean Label Project… all last year Patch was doing really well eating TOTW Roasted Lamb + different cooked foods that I add to his diet for dinner, then Spring come around, cause Patch suffers with Seasonal Environment Allergies, I start to feed a fish based kibble thru the Spring & Summer months the year before I feed an Australian made kibble “Meals For Mutts” but this year I started to feed the Holistic Select G/F fish kibble instead the man at the pet shop recommended the Holistic Select he feeds it to his 2 Staffys that also have allergies then after 2-3 months Patch went down hill after eating the Holistic Select, he stopped eating it, he was doing sloppy cow pattie poos, up all hours of the night pooing, bad wind pain, whinging, I saw his vet, she put him back on the Metronidazole & I put him back on his TOTW Lamb kibble, his poo’s firmed up within 2 days.. then 1 month ago I see Holistic Select kibble on the Clean Label Project it’s 10th, contains the highest amount of harmful environment and industrial contaminants & toxins.. I nilly died & Holistic Select is a 5 star kibble on the DFA….
This is why over time it’s best to find a couple of different brands of pet food with a different protein that agree with your dogs & you rotate between the 2 or 3 brands so if 1 brand isn’t being made any more or has something wrong like toxins or lacking vitamins, not enough omega 3 etc your dogs are not on the one food long enough, eating the same food 24/7 for years & years & suffering long term health problems…..

What kibble works for one dog may not work for another dog, if your dogs were doing sloppy poo’s with jelly mucus on them it’s normally food intolerances, or the protein may be too high, after doing a food elimination diet with my boy, it was chicken, corn, corn gluten meal, barley, boiled rice he can not eat, his IBD vet specialist said when I’m looking for any kibbles or wet tin foods make sure it has 1 single protein with limited ingredients so there’s less chance he will react to an ingredient, she said if after 9-12 months he’s doing really well on the same kibble, its best to introduce new foods into his diet, sometimes a dog will start to react to an ingredient in the food you’ve been feeding for years, so I rotate kibbles now & I add different foods to his diet for dinner or as treats but I didn’t do all this straight away it has taken over 3-4 yrs to get to this point where Patch can eat anything now as long as it’s not any foods he’s sensitive too…also sometimes a 5 star food won’t be the best food for your dog, if it’s a 3 stars food & agrees with your dog & the ingredients all look good then that’s OK, Dog Food Advisor gives less stars sometimes cause the protein is under 25%, there’s nothing wrong with the kibble, but the lower the protein the more carbohydrates that kibble will have….

[Cameron M]

Susan and Judy, I was thanking the individual who took the time to express his/her opinion.

Judy, I am sorry for your loss, however, I am not discussing Comfortis I am discussing Bravecto. Likewise, I am not discussing your doctor ( hey readers…lets stop here a second…scroll up a bit and read the post where the person suggests listening to your vet now notice Judy digging at her husband’s Doctor…can’t win huh?).

I keep responding because seriously…we are in a lot of trouble today because people do not understand basic science…perhaps our schools are to blame. It is truly scary to me to hear such twisted yet seemingly “common” sense comments be accepted…such as it must be toxic if it kills fleas.

Rubish! So Judy to answer I will say I do not know what you mean because what is toxic to a flea is obviously vastly different than what is toxic to my dog or myself with both us being mammals.

Even between mammals there are vastly different toxicity variables. Do you enjoy grapes Judy? How about chocolate? Both really tasty and good food items for humans that will kill dogs…gee…it seems simple common sense doesn’t really work in the world of science. So please keep your you simple homespun observations to yourself because all you do is create danger.

If you actually have studies which support harm being caused by Bravecto then please do share…but you don’t. Scopes even investigated this and found all the hype to be an urban myth based on conjecture vs facts.

Flea and tick control are extremely important – neither Judy or Susan have bothered to offer a helpful suggestion as to a proven alternative to medication ( I say proven vs swing a chicken over your head on a full moon).

So please Judy and Susan…can you share a good method to protect my gal here in FL from flea bites ( which cause disease) or ticks ( which cause disease)?

[Cameron M]

Not sure you are directing this to me…well yes..actually I do have a doctorate but no offense taken.

And yes…my vet whom I trust HIGHLY reccomends Bravecto…nontheless I am doing my research as well just to make sure.

And I add that there are some out there who love a good scandel..even when I say my vet reccomended the drug they scream…aah the vets are making money off this…they are part of the quote “system” as if there is this huge shady group of people lying about research and killing dogs just so they can make a buck.

Really, in today’s world you can’t win…you say you agree with a research study and the opinion of a trained vet and they jump on you…you say you don’t trust a study and the otherside jumps on you.

What I do is listen to experts..look at all sides and decide the issue solely on science. To date I have not read a single research article which supports all the dire side effects that some here are claiming.

Now will admit a few here do make a logical case for longer term and presently unknown side effects. Such as yes…how does the liver react over 10 years to this drug.

Medical doctors today now realize that minor but constant inflammation in the human body can cause cancer…20 years ago they would have laughed at the notion that some minor little thing would kill you 15 years later.

For now I feel safe in the short term usage of Bravecto…BUT I am not certain I will want to use this for the next 5-10 years? I’ll get back to you on that question!

[Cameron M]

Hi Jane,

I do see your logic regarding the effects on the liver…I am posting an portion of a research study…please note the extremely high dosages given to the rats…400mg per Kg body weight a DAY…a DAY. Wow…my gal got about 11.4 mg per pound for 3 months ( (roughly 23.6 mg per kg per 90 days!!!)

Jane…anything to excess is dangerous. Drinking to much water at once can literally kill you…does than mean water is toxic. Well yes…sure it is toxic if you are stupid enough to drink 3 or 5 gallons at once.

How about baby aspirin..yep..thats toxic to in some people. If I listed all the side effects of just plain old aspirin and didn’t tell you the drug name there is no way you would ever pop another aspirin again. Yet rarely do any of us ever actually realize any negative effect from aspirin and there are many studies that support aspirin has numerous beneficial effects at low dosage…from preventing heart disease to preventing some cancers.

Some people don’t seem to have comon sense…they read a “study” and don’t really have the expertise to understand the study then they get freaked out.

Please…do go read all the horrible…super scary possible side effects of aspirin…but you know what…I’m not concerend at all and I think it makes perfect sense to take a daily low dose of aspirin…the logical benefits are far better than the risks.

But yes…see my other posts…keep an eye on this…know your dog…get proper blood tests done and see how your pup is tolerating this new drug.

Please see below post from PARASITIPEDIA.net:

LD50 acute, rats, p.o. >2000 mg/kg
LD50 acute, rats, dermal >2000 mg/kg.
In rats the main target organ in the repeated dose toxicity studies was the liver. Increased organ weight, hepatocellular fatty change and effects in related blood parameters were observed mainly in the highest dose groups, thus at large overdoses relative to recommended/proposed use in the dogs. At the dose of 400 mg/kg bw/day effects on thymus and adrenal weight and microscopic changes in lung and thymus were observed. Comparable effects were reported after dermal administration at very high doses.
In Beagle puppies treated at 1x, 3x and 5x the maximum recommended dose (= 25 to ~60 mg/kg bw) three times with a 56 day interval, fluralaner was well tolerated. There was no evidence of product-related effects in food consumption, body weight, clinical parameters or physical examination variables, or clinical pathology findings.
In a pivotal reproductive study Beagle dogs were treated up to 3X the recommended dose 3 times at 8 weeks intervals starting 12 weeks (males) and 4 weeks (females) before expected mating. Treatment continued until the females had whelped (males) or the puppies were weaned (females). No adverse reactions were observed in adult dogs and no detrimental effect on reproductive functions, number of puppies and puppy survival was detected.
Safety data collected during field studies with the tablets for dogs in Europe and the USA showed that the product was in general well tolerated. In the European field study mild and transient diarrhea, vomiting, lack of appetite and drooling were recorded in 1.6% of dogs in the first days after treatment.

[Cameron M]

Hi Susan,

Thank you for the excellent information! Yes, I am concerned about all these aspects..my plan is to use sparingly. Just one dose from now through Sept. then switch back to Sentinal. My dog splits her time between FL and VT…Fleas are a non issue in VT but ticks are a huge issue.

We are in FL at the moment and fleas are horrible this year because we didn’t have a heavy frost this winter ( normally my part of FL..St Augustine..gets 1 or two hard freezes a winter).

I plan on keeping a close eye on Coco.

As to your observations about Bravecto remaining in the body for too long…I did read a medical study which stated that trace amounts were found in the blood at 111 days but that the effective dosage ended roughly at the 90 day mark…this is an overlap of 21 days and like you I am concerned about build up if given on a regular basis.

With that said …the flip side is that if you think about it – even using a monthly medicine has the effect of keeping the dog under load too. Every month you administer a monthly dose the dog always has the drug in its system…right?

I don’t really see a difference…giving 3 pills of Sentinal over 3 months is the exact same as giving one pill of Bravecto over 3 months.

Therefore my main concern is the overlap and build up relating to proper dosage schedules as discussed above vs. concern over having the drug in the dog’s body.

I guess the real question is …” is it safe or not” If the drug is really safe ok…if the drug causes cancer or other illness then I wouldn’t use it period.

I also agree with you that with any new drug one has to worry about long term side effects which don’t show up in the studies…ones that only start cropping up after 5 or 10 years.

We just don’t know yet with Brvecto…BUT in theory I do like the fact that it doesn’t load the liover or kidneys…that part is very good. In addition the studies to date indicate far fewer adverse reactions than other standard and older medicines…that part is good too.

Then we have the fact that boy…it is working great on Coco so far regarding fleas…has the potential to kill ticks within 2-4 hours after being bitten ( I think lyme disease requires the tick be attached for 24 or more hours)..so that is also a plus.

My pan…keep a wary eye…use a sparingly as possible…AND most importantly take Coco off the med for long breaks when neither fleas or ticks are an issue…maybe even just giving her one dose a year.

In a perfect world without fleas or ticks I wouldn’t giver her any medicine. I HATE ..ABSOLUTELY HATE that I have to medicate my gal…but since I do I am going to keep researching which medicine is the safest then give as little as possible.

Thaks again!

Cameron
P.S. I wish our pets had the ability to help make a choice…by saying hey you dope…don’t give me that junk…it makes me feel woozy…or bad. That is the single hardest part about having pets…we have to observe and use our knowledge to guess what is best and how our babies feel. To everyone reading…please – get to know your pets!!!

[midwestdoglover]

Hi there,

I am new to this forum and loved reading all your guys posts. My dog (who is my best friend) is probably getting a better diet than me at some times.. ha from my experience, i have always been around dogs. My parents had a lab, fed her Iams her whole life. But for my pup, ever since he was a pup i got him on Taste of the Wild food, they have 4 or 5 different flavors which i switch it up and he never seems to get tired of eating it. I swear by this stuff: his coat is great, white teeth, no health problems (knock on wood), he is a gorgeous dog and can say the food i believe is a big contributor.. check this stuff out, it isn’t too bad either price wise if it keeps our friends healthy, also all natural ingredients..

[Robin M]

Hello, anon101…No worries. I was just a little confused about where the tone (can’t think of a better way to word it lol) came from. It felt to me (and please understand that this was ONLY MY perception…which can be completely wrong, trust me lol) that you were upset about something I had said, and I could not for the life of me figure out what it was.

Anyway, forget about the whole thing, please? I hate communicating via message boards or facebook. Because intent cannot be conveyed over written word. It’s up to whomever reads it to decide what is meant by the words. So, I probably mistook what you typed. For that, I sincerely apologize. It is not an excuse, but we are waiting on the arrival of our first granddaughter, and I am a little “on edge” lol. Please forgive my words.

I wish to get back to the main subject, if possible. Are we still ok?

[HoundMusic]

@ Robin M:
“Also, you can see the “humps” where his hips are on his back. So I am just curious if he is actually overweight?”

Pictures can be deceiving, but it does seem like he has a waistline, and might already be at a good weight. Even correctly build Beagles are a square dog, and people not familiar with the breed often confuse their naturally heavy build for being fat. I have actually had Vets who thought my red & white bitch and her sire were mixed with some sort of bulldog breed, because they were not accustomed to seeing anything other than scrawny puppy mill Beagles 🙁

I stink at posting pics to this site so I’ll add a link to a brace (type of field trial) Beagle site with some good pics of this type of hound – they are all actually slim & trim for their body shape.

http://thebracebeaglenews.com/

@ Inked Marie

Hallo there ::waves::

How are your puppers doing? Oh, and give Boone a treat from me 🙂

[anonymous]

Many dogs tend to be stoic, inflammation of the gums is a red flag.
In fact, doing anything other than a dental cleaning and whatever else is recommended by the specialist could result in increased pain and infection.
https://www.avdc.org/periodontaldisease.html
excerpt below
Periodontal disease begins when bacteria in the mouth form a substance called plaque that sticks to the surface of the teeth.  Subsequently, minerals in the saliva harden the plaque into dental calculus (tartar), which is firmly attached to the teeth. Tartar above the gum line is obvious to many owners, but is not of itself the cause of disease. 
The real problem develops as plaque and calculus spread under the gum line. Bacteria in this ‘sub-gingival’ plaque set in motion a cycle of damage to the supporting tissues around the tooth, eventually leading to loss of the tooth. Bacteria under the gum line secrete toxins, which contribute to the tissue damage if untreated. These bacteria also stimulate the animal’s immune system. The initial changes cause white blood cells and inflammatory chemical signals to move into the periodontal space (between the gum or bone and the tooth). The function of the white blood cells is to destroy the bacterial invaders, but chemicals released by the overwhelmed white blood cells cause damage to the supporting tissues of the tooth. Instead of helping the problem, the patient’s own protective system actually worsens the disease when there is severe build-up of plaque and tartar.
Periodontal disease includes gingivitis (inflammation [reddening] of the gums) and periodontitis (loss of bone and soft tissue around the teeth). There is a wide range in the appearance and severity of periodontal disease, which often cannot be properly evaluated or treated without general anesthesia for veterinary patients. Effects within the oral cavity include damage to or loss of gum tissue and bone around the teeth, development of a hole (‘fistula’) from the oral cavity into the nasal passages causing nasal discharge, fractures of the jaw following weakening of the jaw bone, and bone infection (‘osteomyelititis’). Bacteria from the mouth can enter the bloodstream and are carried around the body. Studies in dogs have shown that periodontal disease is associated with microscopic changes in the heart, liver, and kidneys. 
Studies in humans have linked periodontal disease to a variety of health problems including poor control of diabetes mellitus and increased severity of diabetic complications. Additionally, it has been shown that diabetes is a risk factor for periodontal disease

[Acroyali]

Susan I’m not 100% but are metronidazole and (all) flagyl the same thing? This little dog was on flagyl and (if I understood the poster correctly) was taken off because there were suspected neurological complications from the medication 🙁
You make an excellent point about giving any supplements or any meds separately so if she throws something up, the owner will know what caused it.
Also, you mentioned Patch can’t have beet pulp–when one of mine was taken off food that contained beet pulp many years ago his chronic runny eyes cleared up! He’d had that his entire life, I figured it was structural but apparently beet pulp isn’t tolerable by everyone.
Chronic digestive upset is the worst…I love it when I read posts from caring owners that recognize the smallest symptom and take action =) Cheers!

[Susan]

Hi, you do not mention your dog age?? this can play a big part in her bad breath, as we get older we make less Hydrochloric acid, it’s called Hypochlorhydria, it can cause acid reflux, as well as burping, gas/wind, abdominal bloating & pain in dogs, what I think my boy has after he eats he’s very vocal & tells me when something is wrong, walks are really good… he takes Losec (Omeprazole) now 20mg every morning, I didn’t want him on a Pump Proton Inhibitor but it made a real big difference, the Zantac (Ranitidine) & Pepcid (famotidine) didn’t help at all neither did the Probiotic…
Hyperchlorhydra is excessive acid production & Achlorhydra is NO acid production….
I don’t think you can do the Hiedelberg test on dogs, I looked into it this…
I would change her diet?? when my boy eats certain foods & homemade meals he gets this bad fermenting smell that comes up into his mouth, it the food sitting in his stomach & not digesting, even thought they don’t make as much stomach acid they still need a acid reducer like Losec …Google Hypochlorhydria it will explain what happens with low stomach acid & how the Helicobacter-Pylori can take over the stomach cause this bad fermenting smell… Best to have an Endoscope + Biopsies done? has she ever had Endoscope + Biopsies done? My boy had Endoscope & biopsies done about 3-4 yrs ago, stomach looked great vet said but the biopsies showed he has Helicobacter-Pylori & IBD in stomach & small bowel, he was put straight on the triple therapy meds, Metronidazole, Amoxicillin & Losec for 21 days, I had to do the triple therapy meds a few time to stop the Helicobacter taking over his stomach, With Metronidazole (Flagyl) I only give for 10-21 days max now only when he has his breath problem or very sloppy poo’s, but I wait 1-2 weeks to see if I can fix these problems first, my boy gets bad side effects when he takes the Metronidazole, he takes the lowest dose for his weight he takes 1 x 200mg a day with a meal, he weights 18kg=40lbs, he suffers with bad paranoia, scared of his own shadow, he starts acting real weird, so vet has said only give him the Metronidazole when he really needs it for only 10-21 days then stop…….
When Patch eats homemade meals he gets his fermenting bad breath smell, so I break up all his meals, have you tried feeding a kibble or wet tin food or a vet diet wet tin food?? I feed “Taste Of The Wild” Sierra Mountain Roasted Lamb kibble & I’m trying their wet tin food as well, each month I rotate Patches meals & see which one he does best on & he seems to not react when if diet is changed, I rotate with the “Canidae” Pure Wild kibble, if you have a dog that’s 7yrs old & over have a look at the Canidae Pure Meadow Senior kibble, the kibbles are nice & small & easy to digest like the TOTW kibbles, I stay away from chicken, Patch gets real itchy & gets red paws when he eats chicken, the TOTW Roasted Lamb was the first kibble that worked for Patch, it firmed up his poo’s, stopped his acid reflux & no fermenting bad breath smell, it’s just Lamb meal & sweet potatoes, potatoes & peas & egg + probiotics & Purified water maybe the purified water has something to do with why a lot of dogs with IBD, EPI & IBS do real well on TOTW kibbles.. maybe buy a small bag of the TOTW Sierra Mountain Roasted Lamb kibble & wet tin food & give it a go, or try the “Canidae” Pure formulas,
http://www.canidae.com/dog-food/products
The Probiotic your giving is it a dog probiotic powder? do not give a probiotic with food, the best way to take a probiotic is when stomach acids are low, first thing of a morning, in between meals or at night, when you give a probiotic with food the stomach acids are very high digesting all the food, best times are first thing in the morning with no food, or give at bed time at night 4 hours after last meal or in between meals thru the day…..If your probiotic is a powder, I was adding 15ml of water to 1 teaspoon probiotic powder & mixing together in a bowl by swirling the water around so the probiotic powder dissolves & Patch loved drinking it, I found the Dog Probiotic powder didn’t help, it made Patch feel sick, 20mins after drinking probiotic, he was doing his mouth licking, I take the Yakult probiotic drink, I was giving Patch 1/4 of my Yakult drink he loved it, but he felt sick again & did his mouth licking…..Since changing his diet & he takes Losec Patch doesn’t have his bad fermenting breath no more, since I feed him a limited ingredient grain free kibble.. I also feed 5 smaller meals a day, 7am, 9am, 12pm, 5pm & 8pm, at 12pm & 8pm I feed a small amount of wet tin food. I break it up, feed Taste Of the Wild Sierra Mountain Roasted Lamb wet tin & the Royal Canine Vet Diet Hypoallergenic wet tin, I don’t feed any foods that have Beet Pulp, Beet Pulp is a Prebiotic & suppose to fix & help the stomach & bowel like a Probiotic does, Beet Pulp is in a lot of Vet Diets for Stomach & Intestinal health & normal kibbles use the Beet Pulp cause it firms up the poo, Beet Pulp might work for your dog but when Patch eats a kibble or wet tin food with Beet Pulp he gets his fermenting bad smell in his mouth…..
Have you ever tried any of the Royal Canine vet diets- PV, PS or PR or the Hypoallergenic they have no Beet Pulp & are for Digestive Health the protein is a novel protein & has been broken down for the animal, so it doesn’t sit in their stomach fermenting & digesting real slow….worth a try.. https://www.royalcanin.com/products/vet/food-sensitivity
or Hills Vet diets like I/d Digestive Health? but read all the I/d formula as some have Beet Pulp, look at Hills I/d Chicken & Vegetable Stew wet, it has digestive enzymes to help digest the protein, it only comes in a small 156g tin now & smells really nice, you only feed as a small meal like lunch & late dinner in between the kibble meals … if you stop feeding the home made meals just see for 2-4 weeks does the bad breath problem go away??? it would be best to start the Metronidazole again for just 10 days while you try a new diet the Metronidazole stops any diarrhea, makes the stomach bacteria balanced properly again & if there’s too much Helicobacter bacteria the Metronidazole kills it, also when your giving the Probiotic make sure any antibiotics like Metronidazole are given 4 hours before or after the probiotic was given & only do 1 thing at a time, so if something happens like diarrhea vomiting etc you know what caused it….

[Jane E]

Origen white paper is worth reading from top to bottom (Goggle it). Here is an excerpt:
Protein requirements actually increase by about 50% in older dogs, while their energy requirements tend to decrease. When insufficient protein is provided, it can aggravate the age-associated loss of lean body mass and may contribute to earlier mortality.

[Leslie L]

I have 2 Labs who I would like to give Keifer to. In my grocery store I can get Lifeway plain or Wallaby plain. From a bit of research I know they are milk based but the fermenting process removes 99% of the milk product. I have also read about goats milk keifer but do not know a brand or where to buy. If I gave Greek yogurt, is that as good as the Keifer? I give them Primal raw goats milk now a few times per week. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

[anonymous]

Hope this helps, excerpt below. Click on link for full article.
https://www.mspca.org/angell_services/qa-with-angell-west-cardiologist-dr-rebecca-malakoff/
My dog/cat has a heart murmur. What does this mean?
A heart murmur is a “swooshing” sound heard while listening to the heart, instead of a crisp “lub-dub” sound. This typically indicates some turbulence to blood flow in the heart. It can be caused by a leaking valve, by an area of narrowing within the heart causing disturbance to blood flow, or by other abnormalities such as a defect or “hole” in a heart wall from birth. As in people, some pets can have a soft “innocent” murmur, where no significant heart disease is present. Murmurs are graded on a scale of 1 to 6 depending on how loud they are and how many places over the heart they are audible (with 6 being the loudest and most widespread). To determine the cause of a heart murmur, an echocardiogram, which is an ultrasound of the heart, is recommended.

[K C]

your pup needs to be tested before treatment, if you don’t have the funds call you local humane society and they will give you info for a free clinic or test the
stool for you.. you will definitely need a dog probiotic to restore the bacteria balance in the pups body and they are safe even if not ill .
There many viruses out there as it is Spring , unfortunately some are deadly if left untreated. There can be many thing that cause diarrea in pups not everything is from illness or parasite ,they could have a blockage from eating something.
Note that most people on here already have a diagnosis and just need to finish getting rid of the parasite.
Best wishes in getting help

[F D]

Hi!
I have a 5 month old husky that has been having
bad diarhea for a week now.
I think it’s giardia because it
is watery but now it’s mushy. It really has a foul smell.. can I treat this myself?
with pancur c? And kochi treatment?
I do not have a lot of money for a vet and
reading this forum has helped a lot..
what else do you advise? Hopefully somebody’s here!

My puppy is very active and doesn’t act tired
or sick at all. He still a happy puppy

[Erica H]

Hi there,

American Natural Premium is a brand carried on Chewy.com that was suggested to me by a breeder. It is an American-made food that appears to have quality ingredients and meet calcium profiles for large dogs. I would be interested in reading a review on this food brand for use in large breed puppies in particular.

Thanks!
Erica.

• This reply was modified 8 years, 11 months ago by Erica H.

[Jasmine T]

I took him to vet, they wanted bloodwork and xrays. I dont like this vet. She told me i was feeding him wrong, dogs are omnivours , he only needs 25 percent protein and 50 percent carbs . I told her i knew it was controversal and she said it wasnt it just is what it is. And she had such an attitude with me there after.Anyway,i wish she was more helpful , in responding to my questions. I decided to take the meds to make him feel better and if nothing changed i .an apt for an xray the next morning.which i have in an hour . I cant afford xray and bloodwork together. I lost my job and this is all i have , il spend every penny but i only have so much. They gave him two shots and some pills.he WONT SWALLOW the pill. I wrapped it in a tiny peice of canned chicken and tossed it in his mouth and held it shut. Over and over he would spit it out when i let go.so i waited thinking i could wait him out. I did this and he just looked at me when i let him go. I got suspicious and made like i was leaving , i came back twice and he hadnt spit it out . Then i found it later. He litetally waited for me to leave leave to spit it out.the pill was metronidazole. He got a shot of antibiotic,and a antiemetic.
They couldnt test his stool for parasites because it wasnt a stool,it was pink water. He is drinking water,not as much as id like. He had a half a bowl yesterday.
Im bringing my boyfriend to his appt today so that if we get terrible news , he will be there and will more then likely ask his grandmother to help pay. Shes taken her dogs there for years too ,maybe she can request a payment plan. I dont know. I know an xray isnt the end of it.
Maybe he ate a stick or something or glass or poison. I have no idea. It does make the most sense it was the heart.
I read that heart could be fed as a muscle meat ,that it should not be counted as an organ. I read that if it SECRETES then its an organ meat.
Yes too raw to fast.
My dog is 12 in aug. Lab mix. Im trying to stay calm. I am close to freaking out. If something shows in the xray il have to rob a gas station to get the money , im thinking 5000 emergency sugery . What could be wrong with him???
Im counting the min till our appt. I regreted waiting till today shortly after we got home. I thought about it all day and night. I should of just did it yesterday…

[pitlove]

Yes BUN can be elevated with dehydration. Elevated BUN is not always a sign for concern. It is when both BUN and creatinine are elevated that it is concerning because creatinine is only elevated when there is a decrease in glomerular filtration.

If you haven’t already I would let the vet know what kind of diet he is on considering high protein diets can also cause elevated BUN. Again, not something that is always cause for concern depending on why it is elevated.

[Susan]

Hi Jazzlover,
Have you increased the Omega 3 in your dog diet? tin sardines in spring water are excellent, add about 2 small sardines to the raw diet a day, how come your only feeding 1 raw meal a day? is this raw meal balanced properly, is it home made raw or premade raw diet? after adding the Sardines you watch Jazz’s skin & coat start to shine & improve….
Have you tried using High Potency Vitamin C powder for dogs? Vitamin C is a Natural Anti histamine & strengthens the immune system, we use Vitamin C in Australia, it’s also added to our dog foods, here’s the Natural Animal Solution site, I’m pretty sure Jacqueline Rudan the Naturopath does sell her products in America, the Skin Pack is really good & a good price, it will balance the raw diet if it’s homemade diet, I used it when Patch was eating a raw diet…. done the bottom of my post is a link when you have clicked on the link read about Vitamin C then go to the top & click on “Pet Health” look on your left, scroll down a bit then you’ll see “Skin System” there’s a little green arrow facing down, click on arrow & all skin conditions will come up, click on “Skin Allergies” the last one, it’s a really good read, make sure you bath weekly or twice a week or daily in the bad seasons to wash off the pollens & allergens on the skin, bathing relieve the itch I also use “Malaseb Medicated Shampoo” it’s mild & can be used daily, excellent for red paws…
For Jazz itchy lower back tail & bum area have you tried “Sudocrem” it’s a healing cream sold in the baby Section at Supermarket or Chemist, when Patch starts rolling body on carpet & bum surfing on my carpet I should bath him but some days you don’t feeling like bathing the dog so I buy the Huggies baby Wipe the Coconut Oil wipes there’s also Cucumber & Aloe. I wipe his fur down then get another coconut oil wipe & wipe his bum & around his tail area, then I apply the Sudocrem, then straight away the itch stops… When he gets his itchy bum it’s from food sensitivities, as soon as he eats something he’s sensitive too he starts rubbing his bum on carpets…
http://naturalanimalsolutions.com.au/Shop/product/high-potency-vitamin-c/

[LEELINA M]

To Pitluv:
I am truly sorry for the loss of any beloved furry family member. As I previously stated I am also new to RAW and we are all learning, this is why we come to these forums. To listen, share and hopefully help. I literally read more and more on the subject online every single day. I’m petrified of getting it wrong and harming my baby girl. I’m 110% committed to her health and nutrition as well as education and training.

While I appreciate your passion, you come off extremely strong for no apparent reason. As the rest of us post advise in which someone was seeking you never actually answered her question, you simply tried to shoot the idea down. My advise to you is to NOT BE SO COMBATIVE. I’m guessing that you work in a traditional vets office or maybe for a big name pet food company. Not judging but the 2 seem to go hand in hand these days. I considered not responding to you at all and writing you off just as Ashleigh did because people like you spend far to much time trolling online for things to be negative about.

In regards to my “questionable remarks” as you put it… I’ll do my best to address them in order they were received. If you read Minnie’s Meal Plan you’ll see that IT IS BALANCED DAILY as Dr Becker recommends. I believe in balance over time as a standard but for now Minnie is a growing baby so I’m gonna pack everything she needs into every single day. On that note Dr. Becker also says to “feed the best that you can, the best you can afford” and the best that I can afford and do for my pet is A HOMEMADE RAW FOOD DIET. I choose homemade because I know exactly what is in it. I wouldn’t feed her anything I wouldn’t eat. The best I can afford is FULLY ORGANIC MEATS AND VEGGIES FROM TRUSTED BUTCHERS AND SOURCES. My situation isn’t everyone else’s situation. Some can only afford sale meats. My advise is simply to do the best you can just like Dr. Becker recommends.

In dogsnaturallymagazine.com there is an article about Salmonella:The Bad Bacteria by Dana Scott and she references a couple vets who break down a dogs mouth and intestines so that its easy to understand why a healthy dog should not be harmed by food borne pathogens. In the case of the poor rotti, there is just no way that you can be 100% sure that his gut wasn’t already compromised. It is very sad and stories like that are why I feed Minnie foods rich in antioxidants and essential fatty acids to help prevent a leaky gut issue.

I guess all I can tell you is where I started like naturalmonarch.com and it just ballooned out from there. I’ve been to too many websites to keep track of or site for reference and I continue to learn every day. I implore everyone to do the same. Also, seek the guidance of a Holistic Vet and or Holistic Pet Nutritionist in your area. Nothing against traditional vets but their clinics and/or schools are funded by major pet food companies and pharmaceuticals. And now i sound like a nutjob, sorry for that 🙂

Everyone please have a beautiful afternoon. Minnie and I are off to the beach
Love, Leelina

[LEELINA M]

Dear Ashleigh,
I’m so sorry if you’ve been discouraged by negative postings. I’m also new to RAW and finding more hurdles than helpers. The problem is everyone thinks they know everything rather than just sharing what they’ve learned. I hope you are still looking into and exploring the world of raw. Here is what I’m learning and would like to share…. Obviously every dog(like every person) is different but what works for most should work for all, barring complications. I’m feeding raw with a spin. When Minnie first came home I started her on an organic GROUND WHOLE CHICKEN WITH ORGAN MEAT AND BONE. I’m lucky enough to live in an area of Southern California where that is available to me, made by NATURAL MONARCH. Knowing that she also needs other protein sources i went seeking online and now I follow Dr. Becker. She’s a traditional vet gone holistic and i like that. She has a youtube video with Rodney Habib that outlines a raw food recipe which i follow but i change up the protein. I like that this recipe doesn’t call for too many supplements. In addition i feed Raw Meaty Bones every other day. My puppy is super finicky so we’re only doing Lamb Chops, Pork Spare Ribs and Beef ribs with the occasional Chicken Wing. She refuses to eat chicken sometimes as well as chicken feet and turkey necks. She’s kind of a butthead 🙂 but we’ll keep trying. In all my research I have learned that EVERY MEAL DOES NOT NEED TO BE BALANCED! Just work on balancing over the week. Also, Human grade is best. Dog food or food intended to for pets does not have that same regulation. i don’t care what anyone else says. Let those guys eat dog grade food instead of human graded. Even sale meat is ok for animals, as you know animals have different enzymes in their mouths as well as guts to combat the bacteria and parasites that we as humans cannot without cooking it first. If in doubt just cook the protein in question and feed everything else raw. Minnie doesn’t like the taste of ground beef(youtube recipe) but i already made a giant batch so i cook it then add a tablespoon of pumpkin to kill the scent and smell and she loves it. I also add lots of parsley, kale and mint to ward off any leaky gut issues. Dogs that get sick and /or die from bacteria already have had compromised immune systems so please don’t be turned away by nay sayers. Here is a sample diet of what Minnie eats but keep in mind that she is a growing toy breed puppy and eats 3 times a day but only eats 6.5% of her body weight per day (18 weeks as of today between 6 & 7 ounces per day)
sidenote, I’ve started mixing in the rodney habib video recipe into her already ground chicken mix plus as said before pumpkin to the beef mix after lightly cooking it. The beef, i only heat the beef.

Monday… Lightly cooked Beef mix with pumpkin then a pork spare rib the Natural Monarch Raw Chicken with mix

tuesday… Ground Turkey with rodney habib mix then ground chicken mix

wed… ground beef mix then ground turkey mix then a beef rib

thurs… chicken mix then a lamb chop then chicken mix again

fri… beef mix then turkey mix

sat… beef steak with bone then chicken mix then turkey mix

sun… chicken mix then lamb chop then beef mix

Upon writing it out, i see that i obviously feed lots of ground meat but that’s because Minnie is a spoiled puppy. I feed her enough Raw Meaty Bone to have the benefit of the nice breath and clean teeth and gums plus the calcium from those and her chicken has ground bone as well and the egg shells provide sufficient calcium. I plan to introduce more WHOLE proteins after 6 months. It is safe to fast dogs for a day after that point. But right now she’s just too small and too dang picky.

Pulsing spinach, kale, parsley and other super green veggies into your mixes is also sufficient however, i also juice so i mix in the pulp into Minnie’s food.

I hope any of this was helpful.
Love, Leelina

[Juliette J]

I am not pleased that Orijen has changed their manufacturing to the USA. One of the things My first question is this: Where are they sourcing the ingredients? Canada or Kentucky? Ingredients are different from place to place. Naturally the company is going to applaud this change in different ways, but I want to know the answer on this sourcing issue. I just bought the last two bags of Canadian Red off the shelf of my pet store. I am going to do quite a bit of research before I buy any of the new product. I have already heard quite a few complaints locally.

[Susan]

Hi, you need to read the ingredients & make your own mind up if it’s the right food for your dog, only you know what your dog does the best on, not the Dog Food Advisor, what works for 1 dog with a sensitive stomach may not work for your dog or my dog….
Has your vet done test on his stool (Poo) to rule out parasites? or a Endoscope & Biopsies on your dog stomach & small bowel to have a proper diagnoses what’s wrong with your poor boy so you know what is wrong with your dog, he can’t keep doing sloppy poo’s he’ll end up with thickening of the bowel as he gets older…
The Hills Science Diet Sensitive stomach formula is just a pet shop kibble made for all types of dogs with a sensitive stomach & it has chicken in it, is your dog sensitive to chicken? my boy wouldn’t eat it when I first rescued him, the pet shop man recommended it, it may work & he’ll do firm poo’s cause it has Beet Pulp in it, Beet Pulp is in most vet diets & it firms up poo’s, so does dried chicory root what is used in grain free kibbles more natural….
Have you tried any of the Hills prescription vet diets or the Royal Canine vet diets for IBD?? this way if one of the vet diets does work then you’ll know yes he can do firm poo’s what are the ingredient’s, what was the fiber % was it high was it low in fiber was the fat low or high same as protein normally lower protein is better for these problems around 25% & start looking for a cheaper premium kibble like the vet diet that worked…
My boy has IBD & finally I found “Taste Of The Wild” Sierra Mountain Roasted Lamb, it has limited ingredients & has only ONE protein, Lamb, when a dogs has diarrhea/vomiting it’s best to feed a diet with just 1 protein & a protein your dog hasn’t eaten before or hasn’t had much of it & ONE carb like Sweet Potato.. Bad gas can be a food sensitivities, my boy get’s real bad farts when he’s sensitive to an ingredient in a kibble or when he had Small Intestinal Bacteria Overgrowth S.I.B.O he needed Metronidazole (Flagyl) for 30 days… I did an food elimination diet to work out what Patch reacted too, this is only true why to know 100% what foods they’re sensitive too….. If the TOTW is too expensive, Costco sell the Kirkland Signature Salmon & Sweet Potato kibble, it’s made by TOTW & it’s the TOTW Pacific Stream Smoked Salmon formula but cheaper then TOTW.
When your feeding meals are you feeding 3 smaller meals a day? this puts less stress on the stomach & bowel, they don’t have to work as hard & there will be less gas happening in the bowel, a dog farts shouldn’t smell now when Patch farts I hear them but I don’t smell them thank-God…. normally cow pattie poos is the Large Bowel problem, yellow sloppy poos are the small Bowel, small bowel needs less fiber, large bowel diet need more fiber…the TOTW Pacific Stream Smoked Salmon has only 3% fiber that’s why dogs with EPI do really well on it…
Another kibble that worked for Patch excellent firm poo’s & is a good price was “Pro Pac Ultimates” Bayside Select Whitefish & the Meadow Prime Lamb, made by the same people that make Earthborn Holistic kibbles…they also make SportMix Wholesome kibbles Lamb & Rice 40lb bags sells for $30, Pro Pac Ultimates 28lb bag of grain free Meadow Prime Lamb kibble is around $35 a bag try & stick with a grain free with no chicken.. http://www.propacultimates.com/dog-food
Fish kibbles are also good for dogs with sensitive stomach, fish is easier to digest & the kibble will be higher in omega 3 fatty acid which helps heal any inflammation in the stomach & bowel…. I’d try one of the TOTW formulas I have recommended, either Salmon or the Lamb, a lot of dogs with EPI, IBD IBS & SIBO do very well on the 2 TOTW formulas I mentioned, has your dog been tested for EPI?? http://www.tasteofthewild.com.au/

[Millicent m]

I know this post is a few years old but I wanted to add my experience. As we all search for answers, maybe a pattern will emerge! I have an 12 year old wheaten who has had seizures for the past 18 months. We have been giving her phenobarb with moderate success. She never goes longer than a month without seizures but generally only has one every 3-4 weeks. Mostly, but as the budget allows, she now eats a commercial frozen raw brand with occasional dry as a substitute/supplement or for convenience when we travel. A month ago, I replaced her raw food with a new dry food. After two days on the new food, she had a three days full of seizures every 10-12 hours. Disclaimer-this was two days past her 4 week mark of being seizure free so ONE seizure at this time wasn’t unexpected. I quit that food immediately. But neither the vet nor I really believed it could affect her seizures so much. Fast forward three weeks of continuing on the raw frozen again and no more seizures. I hadn’t thawed out enough for this past Saturday’s complete meal so I supplemented with a SMALL portion of the dry food (yes, the previously mentioned new dry food). Six hours later, she had two seizures within 15 min of each other, then a third two hours later. At this point, I took her to the ER, fearing the speed at which this was escalating. Within four hours, she’d had two more, one of which was violent enough to scare the vet tech. After 5 seizure free hours, they gave her some food -one of the Hills prescription canned-. She had a seizure within an hour. After a few more hours, they fed her. She had a seizure within an hour. After a few more hours, they fed her……She had a seizure within an hour. And yes, this trend wasn’t noticed until the third round, even though I noted it after the First feeding. But that’s another story. So……..I am firmly convinced that yes, food can be a GIANT seizure trigger. Like another reply said, probably not a whole cause (but really, who knows?), but most definitely something that can put them over that seizure threshold. I’m trying to determine why said foods are doing that. The two foods don’t share any main ingredients. The dry food is supposedly a high quality food. However, I’m discovering that pea proteins are fast taking over the “high quality”, grain free world of dog food. And even though meat is the main ingredient, we can’t discount how much of the protein content is coming from sources other than the meat. Dogtor J has a theory on food and seizures I’m interested in. Hindsight being 20/20, I’d also like to add that a couple of months prior to her very first seizure, we’d been trying new dog foods because a)she was suddenly hungrier than she had been….after years of eating the same amount and being satisfied and b) her skin issues were no longer being held at bay. Perhaps our dog food’s formula had changed? It was a chicken/chickpea formula I settled on to aid with her skin flareups. Or maybe that formula didn’t change, but instead her body just couldn’t process it anymore. Or maybe the hunger obsession is indicative of a brain lesion/tumor, although that doesn’t explain the seizures that immediately followed certain meals. My gut tells me her seizures are related to her gut…..not necessarily as easy as eating better food (we haven’t found a magic answer there yet) but even due to some disorder or malfunction that’s keeping her body from processing correctly……but I believe her ongoing interest(read obsession) in food (she’s been known to eat her own poop during some of her hunger phases) is related to the seizure puzzle. For what it’s worth, we’ve returned home and had a few meals of her raw food with no additional seizures.

[Susan]

Hi Melodie,
you need to see a proper IBD vet, one that specializes in IBD, also have biopsies done to see WHY this is happening with your boy?? I can fully understand what your going thru, I have a IBD Staffy with skin allergies & food sensitivities.. have you joined any Canine or dog IBD groups on Face Book?? you’ll get a lot of help or there’s a UK IBD group as well…
After trying most of the vet diets that fixed the sloppy poos but caused skin problems or bad acid reflux & vomiting & bloating some vet diet kibbles just sat in his stomach & he’d vomit it back up 7 hours later & these are vet diets that don’t digest???..
I finally found “Taste Of The Wild’ Sierra Mountain, Roasted Lamb kibble for my boy last year thru the EPI f/b group, you need to work out does your dog do better on LESS fiber or a diet with MORE fiber, my boy does better on low fiber diet & a low carb diet, normally dogs with IBD do better with less fiber especially if they are bloating & low carb diets, get a small bag of “Holistic Select” Adult/Puppy, Salmon, Anchovy & Sardine Meal Grain Free kibble its low in carbs 28% fat is 13-14% & just has fish as the protein or try the TOTW Sierra Mountain Roasted Lamb kibble it has the matching wet tin food as well & the TOTW Roasted Lamb kibble is a single protein kibble, it just has Lamb no other proteins, don’t feed any kibbles that have more then 1 protein or too many ingredients, wet tin food is better but watch the fat% as the fat% is different to the dry kibble fat% stay around 4% fat & under for wet tin foods, that’s around 14-16% fat if it was a dry kibble.. but only feed 1 thing at a time wet or dry till you work out if it agrees with your poor boy..
I rotate Patches kibbles now he can’t stay on the same kibble for too long, 1-2 months he starts reacting with pain & starts whinging, & now he cant eat his cooked lean pork rissoles anymore, vet said it’s his IBD & he gets put back on Metronidazole (Flagyl) for 10-21 days, so now I’m trying the Hills vet diet I/d Digestive Care wet tin food, Ijust feed it for 2 of his meals, I feed 5 small meals a day, he can NOT eat more then 1/2 a cup of kibble at 1 time he does the same & bloats & gets PAIN & whinges for me to rub his stomach pancreas area, so he gets either TOTW Lamb, Canidae Pure Wild Boar, or Holistic Select Salmon, kibble 1/2 a cup at 7am then at 9am 1/2 cup same brand kibble again then 12pm 1/2 a small tin of the Hills I/d wet food, we are trying the Hills wet tin Vet Diet & the vet just ordered today the Royal Canine Hypoallergenic wet tin food to see if he does better on the Royal Canine cause with the Hills I/d wet tin Patch gets his red paws from the chicken, corn starch & I have to take out all the carrots cause carrot makes his ears itchy but he doesn’t get his pain on the Hills I/d Digestive Care & at 5pm he gets another 1/2 cup kibble & 8pm the other 1/2 Hills I/d wet tin food heated up in micro wave, feeding 5 smaller meals a day & daily walks as well Patches pain seems heaps better, soaking his kibble in water cause bad acid reflux for Patch, then I read it’s no good soaking kibble & leaving any water in the kibble bowl, so I stopped doing it… have you tried the Vet Diet “Eukanuba Intestinal” Low Residue kibble?? its very very low in low residue fiber & the kibble breaks down real easy like the TOTW, Canidae & Holistic Select kibbles do….
I do my kibble test, get a glass of very warm water now put 2 kibbles in glass of warm water, a good kibble will float to top of water & a good kibble will only take about 15mins – 40mins to soften all the way thru do not feed any kibbles that take longer then 50mins to go soft all the way thru take the bag of kibble back & say ur dog wont eat it, most kibbles have a Palatability money back…I’m always asking for sample emailing kibble companies for sample so I can test the kibbles & see if they go soft within 40mins..
I asked one of Patches vets could he do a Endoscope & biopsies 3 yrs ago with Patch to see what was wrong, they put camera down the throat into stomach, it’s painless I just had it done yesterday & they get biopsies from stomach & sometimes the vet can go into the small bowel & get a biopsies as well if the flap isn’t shut, if you can afford this do it, biopsies tell you so much, you will get some answers what’s happening, why hasn’t your vet tried more vets diets you have just tried Hills & Purina HA which is like the Hills Z/d formula, Royal Canine has a better range of vet diets & has their Hypoallergenic wet tin & dry kibble, Hypoallergenic kibbles break down easy & the stomach doesn’t have to work as hard, You might have to do what I do by the end of the month, I have to start a new kibble formula, TOTW has been the only kibble he does real well on no itchy skin, firm poos & NO stomach pain, maybe give the TOTW Sierra Mountain Roasted Lamb a try, it has the least ingredients or TOTW Pacific Stream, Smoked Salmon kibble or TOTW wet tin food, but I’m pretty sure the America TOTW Pacific Stream has Garbanzo beans (Chick Peas) these can cause gas, wind & bloating, I try & stay away from Lentils, Chickpeas….. Costco has their Kirkland Signature, Salmon & Sweet Potatoes it’s made by TOTW & heaps cheaper then TOTW, you know the Purina HA works so there’s 1 kibble to rotate with when he’s going down hill again & seems unwell, you just need to find 2 more kibbles, I use the kibbles mentioned above, Spring/Summer I feed the Holistic Select Salmon/sardine kibble cause of Patches skin allergies the extra Omega 3 is good for their skin & stomach/bowel… I’m leaving the Purina HA till last it’s the only vet diet Patch hasn’t tried yet, we have just gotten the Purina HA here in Australia…
Keep us up dated, I’ll post the links to the dog IBD f/b groups tomorrow, I have to go to bed it’s late….

[Carey C]

Consumer Labs checked out the Probiotic Miracle by Nusentia and said it was fine. I have been using it for 3 months now and my dog’s condition has improved quite a bit. Wish I had known about this stuff quite awhile back. I just today ordered their enzyme supplement also. I was a long time checking it all out before I finally paid for a report from Consumer Labs to verify my conclusions about their product.

I looked at the Mercola products and quite a few others but most of the research I came across said that dogs typically have around 6 to 8 strains of beneficial flora and more than that was superfluous and could actually be dangerous. There was one strain in particular that theirs contained and some of the others on the market also, Enterococcus faecium, that could easily convert into a strain that is dangerous and could be lethal and you will no longer find it in any human probiotics at all; it is all over the web about it now. At least I haven’t been able to find it in any of the human kind and I’ve run across others that have said the same.

The best thing you can do is spend some time researching the products and their ingredients to make a good decision. I’m not talking about 30 minutes or so either. I have spent hours, many hours doing just that before I settle on anything I’m going to put into me or my dog when it is something I can’t cook up myself at home without a full scale laboratory and supplies and scientific know how to come up with what I want. I’m not one to just gone on someone’s say so. I tend to read the ingredient list on everything I buy and if there is something listed I’m not sure of I pass it by until I can learn more about it.

Most manufacturers will word or say just about anything to make a sale and it always makes me think of the proverbial used car salesman.

[anonymous]

@ Robert J, and others faced with these issues.

You could try one of those dome in the middle dishes that are designed to slow down her eating…….wet her kibble with water prior to serving.

But, honestly, something is wrong, and I would ask your veterinarian what further diagnostic tests are needed or to refer you to a specialist.
The sooner you get a correct diagnosis the better, and you can begin treatment. Read the previous posts in this thread, there may be more to it than gastrointestinal upset.
Her behavior is not normal and obviously the dog is in distress.

I would refrain from trying over the counter meds and such or making drastic changes to her diet, unless instructed to do so by a veterinarian that has examined your dog.

[anonymous]

@ Robert J, and others faced with these issues.

You could try one of those dome in the middle dishes that are designed to slow down her eating…….wet her kibble with water prior to serving.

But, honestly, something is wrong, and I would ask your veterinarian what further diagnostic tests are needed or to refer you to a specialist.
The sooner you get a correct diagnosis the better, and you can begin treatment. Read the previous posts in this thread, there may be more to it than gastrointestinal upset.
Her behavior is not normal and obviously the dog is in distress.

I would refrain from trying over the counter meds and such or making drastic changes to her diet, unless instructed to do so by a veterinarian that has examined your dog..

[anonymous]

@ Robert J, and others faced with these issues.

You could try one of those dome in the middle dishes that are designed to slow down her eating…….wet her kibble with water prior to serving.

But, honestly, something is wrong, and I would ask your veterinarian what further diagnostic tests are needed or to refer you to a specialist.
The sooner you get a correct diagnosis the better, and you can begin treatment. Read the previous posts in this thread, there may be more to it than gastrointestinal upset.
Her behavior is not normal and obviously the dog is in distress.
I would refrain from trying over the counter meds and such or making drastic changes to her diet, unless instructed to do so by a veterinarian that has examined your dog..

[pitlove]

Susan-

Can you please post where you read that Champion in the US has new owners?

[Susan]

Hi, you have to look at the ingredients, there may be 1 ingredient your dog is very sensitive tooo where your other dogs are OK, when my boy eats, Chicken, Turkey & cooked beef carrots, oats & barley he starts to smell & gets itchy & starts scratching & when he gets his environment allergies in Spring & Summer he gets the hive like lumps all over his body, I bath him in Medicated Malaseb Shampoo weekly or twice a week when he’s real bad…With the Malasab you can bath daily if needed it’s a mild shampoo…. Start keeping a diary for this dog & you’ll start seeing a pattern if it’s Seasonal Environment Allergies & start reading ingredient list & see if there’s an ingredient that keeps being in the kibble when this happens…….
Acana make a Pork & Squash formula maybe try that formula for him or get the “Canidae” Pure Sea, its limited ingredients & the protein Salmon & is high in omega 3 fatty acid what is needed for skin problems….

[crazy4cats]

Hi Acroyali-
Yes, as the owner of a female hyperthyroid cat, I can’t help but wonder if it isn’t due to feeding a lot of fish flavored can food to her during her lifetime. I’ve read many articles and studies on the risk factors of feline hyperthyroidism and most somehow link pop top canned food as a common denominator, especially fish flavored. I don’t think they know exactly what it is about the canned food that is a risk factor, however. If is is actually the food or the can itself.

It is quite a dilema for me though as I also have a male cat that has suffered a life threatening urinary blockage and requires a lot of moisture in his diet. I’m trying to find a happy medium as I do not want any of the other cats to have either issue. They are both, obviously, very hard on the cats.

I do remember reading in a previous conversation on this topic that there are foods that block the absorption of iodine as the above poster mentioned. I forgot all about that issue!

[crazy4cats]

Hi Krista-
I’ve read that you can have anywhere from 15 to 25 percent can be unbalanced. There is a download on dogwise.com written by Steve Brown that is only $2.95 that might be of some interest to you. It’s called something like See Spot Live Longer the ABC way, I believe. It gives some great ideas for healthy additions to kibble with suggested amounts. It was helpful to me. Check it out!

[Jenn H]

Re: Vaccinations
Years ago when my dog was going through treatments for cancer the vet suggested we do titers instead of straight up vaccinating for everything since he had a compromised immune system.
Ever since once then we have been doing titers and giving only the necessary vaccinations.
I also spread out vaccinations. I don’t give them combo shots when possible (there’s 1 that’s unavoidable). This way if there is a reaction we’ll know what caused it.

I’m not an anti-vaxxer, but I am anti- overvaccinating.

Re: Acana
It is very disappointing that the high quality of their products has gone down the drain. It was the best food for my big guy and I didn’t have to feed him a ton of it. Now he’s getting hot spots. I’ve tried every formula and the fish has been causing him the most trouble. I thought the oils may have helped. I would only buy the small bags knowing that it was very oily and people were complaining. I keep it in its original bag too so it doesn’t make the bin rancid. And shake the bag to hopefully disperse the oils.
We’re looking into other brands now. Too bad. I really loved Champion.

[Krista B]

Hi,

What toppers do you guys use to too dry kibble? Right now I’m using some canned dog food as a topper. I like that it’s complete and balanced and I don’t need to worry about unbalancing the diet. Are there any other toppers I could use that wouldn’t unbalance the diet too much? I was thinking of using some sardines a few times a week. Here’s the thing 15% of her diet is currently already compromised of treats, veggies, and supplements. If added the sardines it would bring the percentage up to 25% coming from extras other than kibble/canned. Is this ok to do.. or is this unlamced? I read 15% should be the maximum Amount you should have as extras…I like the idea of sardines thought because it already has calcium in it plus EPA and DHA.

Thanks!

[HoundMusic]

Somewhere around 2003 – 2004, I purchased Frontline Plus from my Vet after a rescue we took in spread fleas to my other dogs. Literally, the instant I applied it to my youngest Beagle, she actually screamed – and her underside had turned bright red, like it had given her a first degree burn. Not only that, but it did nothing to rid the other dogs of fleas. We went to Bio Spot after that and have never had an adverse reaction, even when I was forced to use it on a dog with cancer being inundated with fleas and a few dogs who either had epilepsy or were prone to seizures.

[anonymous]

Mail-in hair and saliva tests are not diagnostic tools (just read the fine print).
See the blog below:

Glacier Peak Holistics Pet Wellness Life Scan Stress Test or How Much BS Can Fit on One Web Page?

Excerpt from the link above:
Bottom Line
“The Glacier Peak Holistics Pet Wellness Life Stress Scan (formerly “Healthy Dog and Cat Alternative Sensitivity Assessment”) is a completely implausible test based on vague, mystical nonsense and pseudoscientific theories that contradict the legitimate scientific evidence regarding the cause and management of allergies. The general concept that hair and saliva testing can identify the causes of allergies is false. The marketing of this test is misleading and contains many of the hallmarks of quack advertising. Dog owners struggling with allergies would be far better spending their time and money consulting a veterinary dermatologist for a science-based approach to helping their canine”.
Also, per the search engine here: /forums/topic/desperate-food-recomendations-for-lab/

Review of Dr. Jean Dodds’ book Canine Nutrigenomics
An excerpt from the above review by The Skeptvet:
“A fair bit of effort in the book goes to promoting a test called Nutriscan, which uses saliva to identify dietary sensitivities in dogs. Unsurprisingly, Dr. Dodds’ company owns Nutriscan, and equally unsurprisingly the mainstream community of veterinary nutritionists and dermatologists do not accept the legitimacy of her test because she has not provided any controlled evidence to show it is an accurate and useful test. She does provide a lot of citations to support her claims for this method, but if one takes the trouble to investigate them, they do not actually turn out to be compelling evidence”.: http://skeptvet.com/Blog/2015/06/canine-nutrigenomics-by-dr-jean-dodds-science-as-windowdressing/

Mail-in saliva and hair tests are not helpful from what I have read. By the way, they are not cheap. I have read a lot of complaints that the test comes back positive for nearly everything. Then what? Plus, it is not an allergy test, it’s a food sensitivity test?
I would consider seeing a veterinary dermatologist for accurate testing and the best treatment options.

[Acroyali]

Where do you usually source your beef from? The grocery store or supermarket can be an expensive way to do it sometimes. If you haven’t already, could you talk to a local butcher about saving some quality scraps? Many will, or if you have freezer space, buying in bulk can help tremendously.
If she does well with beef, have you considered substituting beef heart? It’s usually cheaper, VERY high in taurine and a very nutritious additive. It’s considered a muscle meat, not an organ, and while some beef heart is fatty, many are pretty lean. Does she need 90%FF or is this just what you’re able to locate the easiest?
Another option is going right to the source and finding a local farmer that raises beef. You might be able to get scraps and meat for cheaper, especially if you’re able to buy in bulk and store in the freezer.
Another somewhat inexpensive thing to consider would be beef tripe, if you can handle the smell! I’m not sure if it can or should be cooked, but I know fed raw it’s great for digestion and teeth and has a good cal/phos ratio. Some people swear by it and say it’s the perfect food for dogs and (if fed alone) is a complete diet, but I’m not as 100% convinced that they need nothing else. I’m not sure if you’re into that idea or not, but if so it’s something you could definitely consider sourcing as it’s very inexpensive compared to “real” muscle meat!
You could also bulk the meals out with these things (heart or tripe), as well as kidney, liver, or tongue. I can feed tripe, livers, gizzards and all sorts of weird stuff but for some reason beef tongue really grosses me out so I don’t use it 😛
Assuming that she would do well on any “relation” to beef, I wonder if any hunters (or, again, butchers) would be willing to share venison, or if the butcher would have any leftover venison from last season…sometimes hunters have deer processed and then (for some reason) never come to pick the meat up. If she does well on beef, she MIGHT do well on venison, so this might be another option to keep in mind. It would probably be too expensive to purchase on it’s own, but if you can get a freebie…
Hope this is (somewhat) helpful!