[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi shelties mom –

You only want to use one calcium supplement. You can stick with one or rotate every so often. I’ve actually never used bone meal as a calcium source, but the thing to keep in mind if you want to use bone meal is that it contains both calcium AND phosphorus so you’ll have to add more bone meal than you would a pure calcium supplement (such as calcium citrate) to get the ratio in balance. Most bone meal has a 2:1 calcium to phosphorus ratio but it can vary by brand. Dr. Pitcairn’s book “Natural Health for Dogs and Cats” contains a guide guide for balancing recipes with bone meal, I’m sure there are a lot of websites out there that explain it as well. If you’re using a pure calcium supplement, the general rule is about 800 mg. per 1 lb. muscle meat and 1,000 mg. per 1 lb. organ meat – as long as you follow that general rule the end result should be balanced. Sometimes slightly more or less can be used depending on the type of meat – i.e.) fattier meats will be lower in phosphorus and thus require less calcium than leaner meats. In my boneless beef recipe above, after the nutrient analysis I found that I only needed 1,400 mg. calcium to get the ratio where I wanted it. The tripe didn’t require any calcium as tripe naturally has a balanced C:P ratio, 85% lean is a little fattier and contains less phosphorus than extra lean meat and my offal blend contains trachea and gullet which only have slightly more phosphorus than calcium. There really wasn’t any reason behind my choosing calcium citrate other than it was available in powder form – I prefer to use powdered supplements when possible. You could certainly use another calcium supplement such as eggshell calcium, calcium lactate, etc. Just make sure the supplement contains ONLY calcium – some add other vitamins and minerals which, if not accounted for, could over-supplement your dog’s meal. I’ve heard that certain calcium supplements are better assimilated than others, but I really wouldn’t worry too much about what type you’re using as long as you’re getting the amount right.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi BakersMom –

Unfortunately, if he has hip dysplasia there’s no reversing it. At 11 months old he’s already been through his critical growth phase and reducing calcium levels won’t help. Not feeding a puppy formula wouldn’t have caused this – but all of Taste of the Wild’s formulas are technically “puppy” formulas anyways (they’ve all met the AAFCO nutrient profiles for all life stages). A variety of factors are involved in the development of hip dysplasia – genetics (probably the biggest factor), over feeding, calcium intake during the critical growth phase (about the first 6 months), activity level (high impact activity during growth can cause hip dysplasia) and probably numerous other factors we aren’t yet aware of. If you do find out your pup has hip dysplasia it’s not the end of the world, there are several actions you can take to help him live a long and comfortable life. If the dysplasia is severe, your vet may recommend surgery – most orthopedic surgeries have a high success rate. Surgery is expensive, but if the dysplasia is severe it will be cheaper to get surgery rather than pay for expensive supplements and medications for the rest of his life. If the dysplasia is more mild, often the deterioration of the joint can be slowed by supplementing with GAGs and pain and inflammation can be controlled with natural supplements such as boswellia, turmeric, omega 3’s, white willow, yucca, tart cherry, etc. It will also be important to keep him active so the muscles around his hip stay strong, making the hip less likely to luxate. Low impact activities like walking and swimming are great for dogs with joint problems. Human supplements are generally cheaper than pet-specific supplements – I would recommend going for something with glucosamine, chondroitin and MSM and also supplementing with an anti-inflammatory such as turmeric or boswellia. Adjust the human dose depending on his weight – for example give a 25 lb. dog 1/4 the recommended human dose, a 50 lb. dog 1/2 the recommended human dose, etc. Give twice the recommended dose for the first two weeks and if you see improvement reduce the dose to half and discontinue the supplement for two consecutive days each week to help keep him from building a tolerance to the ingredients.

[theBCnut]

Don’t worry about the veg unless you see something going on that makes you suspect a real problem. My personal feelings on adding veg and fruits is that I like knowing that mine are getting a variety of antioxidants, just in case. They may not digest every speck of it but they are getting a variety.

I feed twice a day, so 20% of that is about 3 meals, so I feed bones 3 times a week and don’t worry if they don’t eat the usual supplements in those meals. Some people feed raw meaty bones once a day and then for the other meal they make sure that all the days supplements are mixed in.

[Shihtzumom20]

Hi Guys!
I just wanted to give an update on how Dawson is doing on his “real” raw diet! So far he has loved and therefore devoured every meal he has had, which is something for him! He bounces and dances until I put his bowl down. He has loved all the proteins, so far he has had chicken, turkey, duck and beef. What a change for the better! I have also noticed that his eyes are nice and clear and he doesnt have constantly wet “cheeks”. His fur is so soft! It is so nice to have him eat with such vigour instead of throwing his meal all over the floor.
I have a question though, there are carrots in the “dinners” , but I noticed they look the same coming out as they did going in! I was thinking about changing to the 100% meat blends that dont include veggies, or should I not worry too much about carrot pieces? If I do switch to the 100% do i have to worry about more supplements, he gets krill oil, vitamin D and vitamin E. He is getting locally pre-made raw Big Country Raw. Plus I am wanting to add more things like turkey necks, and he Loves beef trachea (so far it is dehydrated), I believe that you guys said it could be up to 20% of his diet, is that right?

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi Shawna –

There aren’t any Mercola products that I don’t support – I think they all look great actually. Concerning the joint supplement I feel that while it’s a good supplement, a human product can be purchased with the same or similar ingredients that would be cheaper per dose . Also, the poster that was inquiring about it has a puppy, I feel that the Mercola joint product contains a lot of ingredients which would be FANTASTIC for an older dog or a dog that already has arthritis, but a bit of an overkill for a young dog with no joint issues. I think for a young healthy dog frequent RMB’s or a basic glucosamine/chondroitin supplement is plenty and a joint product like Mercola’s would be an unnecessary expense.

Concerning Mercola’s overall supplement line – no issues other than price. Coming from someone with large dogs, quality supplements can get VERY expensive. I’m always looking for ways to cut costs and always evaluate supplements on a cost per dose basis. Concerning all “pet” supplements in general (not just Mercola’s), I find that they’re overpriced and the equivalent product can be purchased in “human” form for much cheaper. I’d love to support Dr. Becker’s products but, for example, it would be $105 a month for me to give my three her probiotics and enzymes and it would cost me $10 a month to give my three Swanson’s supplement which has 15 strains of probiotics and 5 digestive enzymes (going off the recommended dosages on both products’ labels). I just don’t have that kind of money for supplements and I’m sure many others don’t either.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi Janet –

If you’re sure the “scooting” is not due to anal gland issues I would bring a stool sample to the vet to check for parasites just in case (certain worms – such as tapeworms – can cause “scooting”).

To help with the stools and the transition to a new food I would add a spoonful of plain canned pumpkin to each meal and supplement with probiotics and digestive enzymes (there’s no need to buy a “pet” supplement, something from the health section for at the grocery store with suffice and likely be cheaper). You can continue the pumpkin and supplements permanently if need be.

Grain-free foods are, unfortunately, pricier than grain-inclusive foods. Earthborn is probably one of the most budget-friendly grain-free foods available. Some other options would be Nutrisource, Taste of the Wild, The Source, Victor, Authority and 4Health (note: Taste of the Wild and 4Health are manufactured by Diamond). NutriSource, Taste of the Wild and Source run about the same price as Earthborn while Victor, Authority and 4Health are slightly cheaper. Authority Grain-Free is available exclusively at Petsmart. The Source and 4Health are available exclusively at Tractor Supply. Earthborn, Taste of the Wild and Nutrisource can be found at most high end pet specialty stores and online. Victor will likely be the most difficult food to locate – I haven’t been able to find an online retailer and it’s not sold in my area but if you can find it, it looks like a fantastic food and it a great bargain.

You’re correct that dry food doesn’t really clean teeth, that’s a myth. I wish it wasn’t though – I’d eat potato chips and cookies all day and use the excuse that it’s for my dental health lol. 🙂 Canned food is actually healthier and more species appropriate (higher moisture content and higher protein levels) so if you can afford to occasionally buy some quality canned food (4Health has some grain-free varieties that are a bargain at only $0.99 per can) that would be great for your dog. Healthy “people food” is good to add to kibble too – eggs, tinned sardines, leftover lean meat, plain yogurt, cottage cheese, low glycemic veggies, etc.

I think raw bones are best for dental health. My dogs eat a raw diet and get raw bones daily – beef ribs, pork necks, turkey necks, chicken backs, etc. If you’re going to buy something from the store I’d go for “natural” chews (make sure they’re made in the US) such as dried tracheas, bully sticks and pig ears – these are species-appropriate (high protein, grain-free) and great for dental health. As far as “treats,” I’d go with high protein meaty treats such as jerky (made in the US of course), grain-free biscuits or freeze-dried raw foods. I’m a big fan of Nature’s Variety Instinct dog biscuits, EVO biscuits and Darford Zero-G biscuits (although I’m not sure if the Darford biscuits are being made anymore 🙁 ). I also feed freeze-dried raw (such as NV Instinct and Stella & Chewy’s) as treats.

[Mom2Cavs]

I have some favorites:
Wholistic Pet Digest All Plus (pre/probiotics/enzymes)
Ark Naturals Gentle Digest (pre/probiotics)
Fresh Digest or Optagest (same product, different name, prebiotics/enzymes)
Mercola Probiotics
Vetri-Science Mega Probiotics (pre/probiotics)
Hoistic Solutions (pre/probiotics/enzymes)
Naturvet (pre/probiotics/enzymes)
Nature’s Farmacy has some good supplements, too, that I like

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi hwballew –

If you go to the review section of DFA and read the reviews for Purina and Iams you’ll see that they are all very low quality foods. Dry food is definitely more convenient, but a balanced home prepared food is the healthiest. By type – from worst to best: kibble < canned < dehydrated < commercially prepared fresh food < balanced home cooked < commercial raw < balanced homemade raw (granted the foods are rated the same). If you want to stick with kibble for convenience reasons, I'd recommend picking out 2 or 3 (or more) 4 or 5 star dry foods and rotating – top the dry food with a quality canned food, raw food or healthy "people" food (eggs, tinned sardines, leftover lean cuts of meat, etc.). Canned foods, dehydrated foods and commercially prepared cooked and raw foods would be a step up from kibble and wouldn't require the time and knowledge that a home-prepared diet requires. These options are more costly than dry, but if cost isn't an issue they'd be a big improvement over dry food. If you do want to home prepare her meals, research first. It's not difficult to prepare a balance diet but it does take some research. There are many great books available with recipes formulated by veterinarians and nutritionists. Dogaware.com is probably the best online resource for homemade diets. The homemade food and raw food forms here have some useful information – my dogs' menus are posted on the suggested menu thread in the raw food forum.

For digestion problems I would supplement with a high quality probiotic supplement, enzymes and a little bit of plain canned pumpkin. Remember, because she's eaten lower quality foods for so long she may experience some digestive upset when you switch foods. These supplements will help a bit – make sure to do a gradual transition.

Is she on a joint supplement? I just posted some supplement recommendations to another poster on the "Mercola Joint Supplement vs. Others" thread under the "Dog Supplements" forum.

Good luck!

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi Marie –

Liquid and powder supplements are harder to come across with human supplements. I’ve seen a few liquid human joint supplements, but nothing I’ve been overly impressed with and they cost about twice as much per dose as non-liquid supplements. I’d recommend powder-filled capsules when buying human supplements (that’s what I get for my dogs). They’re easy to pull apart and you can just sprinkle the powder into the food – you also don’t have to worry about measuring, just count the capsules.

For older dogs already experiencing arthritis, I think a supplement with both joint maintenance properties (glucosamine, chondroitin, etc.) and anti-inflammatory/pain relief properties (boswellia, yucca, white willow, etc.) will provide the most relief.

Some of my favorite joint supplements:

1) Joint Care Rx – Manufactured by Advance Physician’s Formulas. Available direct from the manufacturer’s website and on Amazon. $25.95 for 120 capsules. Contains: glucosamine, chondroitin, MSM, cetyl myristoleate, boswellia, cat’s claw, devil’s claw, grape seed extract and sea cucumber.

2) Wysong Arthegic – Manufactured by Wysong and available on their human supplement website. $32.89 for 90 capsules. Contains: boswellia, sea cucumber, turmeric, ginger, devil’s claw, yucca, red pepper and cetyl myristoleate. For extra support, could be given in addition to Wysong’s Joint Complex which contains cartilage and MSM. Wysong offers quantity discounts.

3) Swanson’s Mobility Essentials – Sold by Swanson Vitamins. $10.99 for 180 capsules. Contains: Vitamin C, Zinc, Manganese, Glucosamine, MSM, Boswellia, Bromelain, Chondroitin, White Willow, Curcumin, Devil’s Claw, Quercetin, Sea Cucumber and Yucca.

Starting on any joint supplement, I’d begin by giving her twice as much as she should get for about 2 – 3 weeks. If you see improvement drop the dosage down to what she should be getting and give the supplement 5 days on/2 days off. Taking two days off per week will help to keep her from building up a tolerance to the effects of the supplement. You can also give extra omega 3’s daily to help with inflammation.

I’m not sure how bad her arthritis in, but you may also want to consider a systematic enzyme supplement such as Wobenzym or Medizym. These are just digestive enzymes but they’re in a specially coated capsule so they aren’t broken down in the stomach. You give them to the dog on an empty stomach and the enzymes help ease pain and inflammation and also boost the immune system.

[crazy4cats]

Hi-
I also was going to ask if you have had a fecal test for giardia. My pups had runny stools when I first got them. They also were eating their stools. Very gross! I kept thinking was caused by food and switched a few times and did not help. Their poop was a weird color, however. Often green or yellowish. Turns out they had giardia after a fecal test. They had to have 3 or 4 rounds of metronidazole and panacure to get rid of it. Tough to get rid of with two of them. After so many rounds of meds it took a while to get their stools back to normal again consistently. I used vetri-probiotics bowel defense for dogs. It contains a prebiotic, probiotics, enzymes and ingredients for diarrhea. My vet also recommended DGL plus to soothe their digestive tract. I found helpful supplements on Thorne supplements website, healthy pets site and Amazon’s site as well. Also many helpful tips on this site, such as adding pumpkin and healthier foods for them. I regret to say that I had never read an ingredient label with previous pets. Now I’m obsessed with it lol! One more site that has much info for digestive issues is dogaware.com. Good luck! I know it is frustrating and stressful.

[InkedMarie]

Thanks HDM. My dogs don’t ever turn up their noses at anything in their food. Ever. The last dog that did was Tucker when I got a free bag of Natures Variety medallions.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi Marie –

I’d say 1/4 C. would be fine. I generally give my guys 1/4 C. each on the days they have green tripe and 1/2 C. each on the days they don’t get tripe. It would be a great addition to kibble meals – you could use it to make a “cereal” and add moisture. Most dogs tolerate it very well as it’s very low in lactose.

[InkedMarie]

Hi ladies, thanks for the info! Patty answered the question, i think, that i was going to ask. Mine rarely get tripe because I forget about ordering it. I do have a certain amount of beef coming, with tripe, from Hare Today but they won’t be getting beef daily. I was going to ask what to do about the fact they won’t be getting beef daily but I think Patty answered it: 1/2 dose a couple times a week. Gemma will still get them as she is on Bravo Balance for part of breakfast and THK in the evening.
Regarding the kefir, HDM: whats the dosage? I have two 30 pounders and one 22 pounder

[theBCnut]

Back to the OP, I only feed tripe once a week as an entire meal and I have a dog with issues, so I still use probiotics 1/2 dose about twice a week. I do the digestive enzymes 1/2 dose with kibble for him. I’m not sure he really gets any benefit from them, but I’ve got them from when he was really having issues and I’m going to use them up. I got the 3 jar deal from Mercola and I’m still on my first jar, months later.

[DogFoodie]

My dad used to make yogurt. Something makes me think making yogurt is a heckuva lot easier than making kefir.

Lifeway kefir it is, HDM!

Thanks!

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi Betsy –

I buy my kefir. My Hannaford carries Lifeway and Evolve brand – I get the Lifeway because it as 12 strains of probiotics (versus 11 in the Evolve) and more vitamin d. I eat it myself as well – it’s great in granola. I’ve never looked into making kefir but I’d imagine it’s similar to making yogurt, a lot of people make homemade yogurt.

[DogFoodie]

OK, in a nutshell, my question was about kefir. I’m interested in it for myself and my dogs and recommended it to a friend recently for her dog ~ kefir made with goat milk as her dog is allergic to cow’s milk, which she could pick up at a nearby health food store. It doesn’t sound like making kefir is easy though and I wondered if you made your own or bought it and if it’s difficult, etc.

[DogFoodie]

Hey… where’s the rest of my post? Weird.

[DogFoodie]

Pardon my hijack, Marie!

[Hound Dog Mom]

Glad to hear you’re ordering from Hare Today! Their stuff is awesome, you’ll love it. I don’t think probiotics and enzymes are necessary for a raw diet, especially not if the dog is getting green tripe. I don’t supplement with enzymes or probiotics. My dogs get green tripe every other day and kefir daily. With that said it’s certainly not going to hurt anything to add probiotics and enzymes, it would just be an unnecessary expense imo.

[theBCnut]

Hi Jan

It was the first homemade recipe I tried and the reason I went ahead and started feeding raw. It was easy enough to follow and really easy to tweak as I learned more. I rotate everything including supplements, so I still use DinOvite every few days. I’ve also been buying grinds from Hare Today that work really well with whichever supplement mix I want to add. DinOvite plus SuperOmega plus a grind is super simple.

[InkedMarie]

After exchanging a bunch of emails with Tracy and talking to Alexandra via FB, we decided to try getting some grinds from Hare Today. We ordered chicken, beef, turkey and duck. They all have ground meat, bone and organs and the beef has added tripe. Tracy from Hare today said I don’t need to continue to use probiotics and digestive enzymes: what do you all think of that? Do you use them if you feed raw?

[DogFoodie]

Thank you so much, Sandy! I was hoping you’d also chime in. : ) Those are all great recommendations.

I’m so glad my friend is willing to switch foods. I think what she’s feeding actually contains some of the allergens that are problematic for her dog. Thank you both, Jan and Sandy, so much for your help!

I also happened to read this, posted by Hound Dog Mom recently to someone else whose dog has yeast issues and thought it would be great advice for my friend as well:

“I would recommend adding a high quality multi-strain probiotic – probiotics are “good” bacteria that will help keep the “bad” bacteria (like yeast) in check. I would also add a supplement with natural anti-fungal, anti-bacterial anti-parasitic and anti-viral properties. Some good options would be coconut oil (organic virgin), oil of oregano or fresh minced garlic (make sure you give an appropriate amount of garlic and don’t give for more than 3-4 days consecutively, take at least 2 days off after every 3-4 day cycle). If your dog has yeast on her paws (or any other area, such as the ears) they should be disinfected daily. Soak the paws in a solution of 1 gallon water, 1-4 cups of white vinegar and 1 cup of hydrogen peroxide. Clean the ears with 3 parts white vinegar to 1 part witch hazel. If the whole body is infected with yeast bathe the dog in a natural anti-fungal shampoo – I would look for a tea tree oil shampoo, avoid oatmeal shampoos as the oatmeal acts as food to the yeast. ”

I think those supplements are easy enough to add to her dog’s diet ~ easy enough that I think she’d actually do it!

[Mom2Cavs]

Wow, veggienut, that sounds terrible! I don’t know if it’s the food, but I do know a couple of people with Yorkies and they both feed high protein foods to them and they do fine. Foods like Acana, Fromm grain free, etc. And I’ve been feeding Acana Duck for about 2 weeks now and my dogs are doing well on it. I’m also topping with either Primal FD or Stella & Chewy’s FD and adding probiotics (which I do to any food I feed). I do believe that some dogs may need certain percentages of things or certain supplements depending on their overall health issues but, I’m sorry, I don’t think certain breeds need foods made for “Yorkies”, “Poodles”, etc. For instance, I have Cavaliers and they’re known for heart problems so I sometimes supplement with things that benefit the heart, like coq10, hawthorn, taurine, l-carnitine, etc. I have an old mixed breed and she has bladder problems so I give her a urinary supplement. If certain breeds need to eat certain brands/foods made just for them, then where is the “Cavalier” food? I’m not trying to be rude, just my opinion. Also, you state your Yorkie needs carbs in his diet and Acana has none….it really does, because all kibble has to have some carb binder to hold it together. Some may have more than others, and of course there are different kinds of carbs to use. The fact is that not one food will work for all dogs, so I just think that Acana may not work for your Yorkie. Perhaps in the future, when his digestion settles down, you can find a different food to try for him that is better quality than RC.

[Hound Dog Mom]

doggiedog –

No single food meets all of a living thing’s needs and whole food derived nutrients are far superior to synthetically added vitamins and minerals. I “supplement” my dogs’ food – but not with synthetic vitamins and minerals. They get super foods such as spirulina, chlorella, bee pollen; healthy fats such as fish oil, coconut oil, etc.; foods rich in enzymes and probiotics; healthy herbs like turmeric and garlic; etc. What I feed my dogs is so naturally rich in vitamins and minerals that I don’t need to add anything synthetic. I don’t trust a dog food company to add everything needed to keep my dogs’ immune systems in peak condition – because there is no dog food that does this. Chemically synthesized vitamins and minerals are more likely to be tainted, pose a greater risk for overdose and aren’t utilized as efficiently by the body – in whole foods, nutrients work synergistically with hundreds of other compounds and many of these compounds have different forms in nature and can only be found in whole foods. Synthetic supplements have been linked to increased risk of cancer and increases in lifestyle diseases in people – why wouldn’t it be the same for our pets? Many medical organizations advise against the consumption of synthetic vitamins and minerals for humans. This is why foods should be rotated so a dog isn’t overexposed to anything. Your statement that different breeds need different foods isn’t accurate – or at least shouldn’t be accurate if a dog is eating an appropriate food. “a bulldog, which is prone to digestion issue, excessive gas, and weight gain” – probiotics and enzymes address digestive issues and gas, if a dog were eating a fresh species-appropriate diet rich in natural enzymes and probiotics this wouldn’t be an issue; dogs that are overweight don’t need a special food, they need their portion size (calories) reduced, weight loss is based on calories in and calories out not fat content or caloric-density of a food. “Poodle, which is prone to cataracts, dementia, and has a fully curly coat” – again, if eating a high quality species-appropriate foods the chances of any of these “tendencies” causing an issue would be greatly reduced. High quality foods have balanced ratios of quality omega 3 and 6 fatty acids for the coat health and whole food antioxidants help with health issues such as cataracts and dementia. Low-grade foods like RC, SD, Purina, etc. have to add supplements because their base ingredients are so low quality and nutritionally devoid. Luckily for these companies there are tons of people out there like you and veggienut that actually believe synthetically supplemented corn puffs with a picture of your breed on your bag are the best thing to feed.

[DoggieDoc22]

“It’s better to buy a good adult food and then add supplements to that. Most dry dog food makers add supplements to their food before cooking, and the food is cooked at such a high temperature that the supplements are all but gone.

Besides, wouldn’t you and/or your vet rather control the amount of supplements in a dog’s food, rather than having somebody else do it for you?”

Or you could feed your dog a complete and balanced diet so that there would be no need for supplementing. By supplementing the food that you give to your dog basically what you are saying is that the food you have chosen to feed them isnt providing all of the nutrients that they need so you are then going to go out and spend MORE money to buy a supplement, rather than just feeding them something that met all of their needs in the first place.

[BryanV21]

It’s better to buy a good adult food and then add supplements to that. Most dry dog food makers add supplements to their food before cooking, and the food is cooked at such a high temperature that the supplements are all but gone.

Besides, wouldn’t you and/or your vet rather control the amount of supplements in a dog’s food, rather than having somebody else do it for you?

[DieselJunki]

I would supplement with a hip and joint supplement anyways. Especially since you said she was or is having issues.

Here are a few companies that I’ve looked into and I’ve heard of others using.
Welly Tails
Vet’s Best
K9 Joint Strong
Mercola

And also a link to a thread I had started that has good information from Hound Dog Mom on joint supplements.
/forums/topic/mercola-joint-supplement-vs-others/

As far as a food similar to Acana I’m not sure on that.

If it was me I would just find a good dog food high in protein, low in fat (since you said she was overweight) and add the hip and joint supplement instead of trying to find a food you think might have the appropriate levels to support healthy joints along with low fat and high protein. But I am certainly no expert so perhaps others will chime in.

[tarancara]

Actually, like humans dogs CAN thrive on the right vegan diet. Many people say that humans MUST eat meat- which is very untrue. But the supplements used for dog health are different than human health. I knew a vegan family that raised German shepherds and their dogs were on a highly researched vegan diet and were GORGEOUS healthy dogs who all lived long lives. Unfortunately I am not in contact with these folks anymore.. Vegan diets can be done well or dangerously bad for both humans and animals alike. Most people who say it can’t be done havent seen a good example of it.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi Cate –

I agree, some supplements are harmful in excess. However, glucosamine, chondroitin and hyaluronic acid are very safe supplements. They can be consumed at many times the daily dose with no ill effects. The amounts in food are very low with most having only around 400 mg. glucosamine per kilogram of food – this equates to a mere 30 or so mg. per cup (just to give you an idea – a 50 lb. dog would have to eat over 30 cups of dog food a day just to get a maintenance dose of glucosamine). Dogs that are eating a natural diet rich in bones, cartilage and sinew would naturally be consuming these nutrients in very high levels (higher than anything in dry dog food). I’ve never heard of a dog “overdosing” on GAG’s.

[Anonymous]

Please be careful with supplements as some food and treats have glucosamine, chondroitin, hydraulic acid. Sometimes more is not better and overdoing could have a negative effect.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi DieselJunki –

Glycosaminoglycans (GAGs) are important constituents of cartilage and help to maintain joint function. GAG’s and GAG precursors would include glucosamine, chondroitin and hyaluronic acid. MSM, which is an organic form of the essential mineral sulfur, can be beneficial for joints as well due to the fact that connective tissues require sulfur for maintenance. Cetyl Myristoleate is a supplement that’s recently gained popularity as a joint supplement and has been shown to lubricate joints and maintain function. Whole food supplements that are rich in GAGs are sea cucumber, green lipped mussel, shark cartilage and eggshell membrane. Raw meaty bones are rich in GAGs as well – with trachea, poultry feet and gullet probably being the richest sources. I feel that large/giant breed dogs that are not fed a diet including raw meaty bones on a daily basis should be started on a joint maintenance supplement at a year old (until the dog is a senior or starts to exhibit joint issues the supplement can be given at half the recommended dose). When it comes to joint supplements if you buy supplements made for humans they will be MUCH cheaper per dose. The ingredients used in human supplements are the same as those used in dog supplements so there’s no reason human supplements can’t be used (they’re probably higher quality as well). For a young dog with no joint issues there’s no reason to supplement with every beneficial ingredient under the sun – a capsule of green lipped mussel, shark cartilage, sea cucumber or eggshell membrane or a basic glucosamine/chondroitin supplement will give enough maintenance support to a young dog free of joint issues. For older dogs or dogs that are exhibiting symptoms of arthritis natural anti-inflammatories such as white willow, yucca, boswellia, turmeric/curcumin, tart cherry and supplemental omega 3’s can be beneficial to give in addition to a joint maintenance supplement.

[Shihtzumom20]

Thank you Hound Dog Mom! I got all his supplements today and I get his food tomorrow, and then we are ready to go. I really appreciate you taking the time to look at the website and help me make sure it is balanced. And for your supplement blend, is that 1/2 a tsp each of everything or 1/2 a tsp of everything that has been all mixed together?

[Hound Dog Mom]

I love Swanson’s. I recently discovered them a few months ago when I was looking for some supplements for myself, I liked the stuff I got so much I just ordered over $200 of supplements for the dogs the day before yesterday. I don’t give the dogs supplemental probiotics or enzymes but when I ordered their stuff I got “Swanson Ultra Soil Based Organisms” supplement for myself – 5 digestive enzymes, 15 soil-based probiotics, barley/oat/wheat grass juice and a 15 vegetable concentrate. Sounds healthy, would be great for a dog too that needed enzymes and probiotics – only 11 cents per capsule!

[Mom2Cavs]

I agree with HDM….but, even though I sometimes use human supplements most of the time I use those made for dogs. Like HDM I also mix into their food for both meals. Lucy is taking a urinary supplement atm, though, that is a soft chew so I don’t have to mix that in. And definitely check all ingredients for dog safety. Another note, when I buy dog supplements I usually do so at a pet specialty store (generally big box stores don’t have the brands I want) or I order them online. http://www.onlynaturalpet.com is a good site for supplements. Most of the dog supplements I buy have the NASC seal on them but not all. Hope this helps some more. 🙂

[DieselJunki]

I know Moose is only 4 months right now BUT I’ve been doing some research about hips and large breed dogs. Doing some Googling I’ve read quite a few people recommend giving a joint supplement even if there are no joint problems in their dog, even starting as young as puppies. Now I have been on a Mercola supplement kick because they seem so well put together and are very well talked about here. They pretty much have me sold on the Hip Supplement but I just wanted to check in here and hear about other people’s experiences with hip and joint supplements.

Now correct me if I’m wrong but when looking for a joint supplement that maintains the hips you would be looking for things with: msm, glucosamine, chondroitin, hydraulic acid.

So far the one’s I have looked into are:
Welly Tails
Vet’s Best
K9 Joint Strong
Mercola

These all seemed to have those 4 things I mentioned up there. Some seemed more for arthritic dogs or dogs that already had painful joints and others seemed better at just being hip and joint maintenance.

[DieselJunki]

I know of quite a few people that have spoken well about the Mercola Pro-Biotics and Digestive Enzymes. I would use both on my dog but they are currently out of stock on the Enzymes. I know I also feed my dog Trippet (green beef tripe), Answer’s Goats Milk, and Kefir. All of these have some form of Enzymes and such in them. Kefir is really good if you can find it. Hound Dog Mom suggests it a lot and can be beneficial to any dogs diet. I of course switch up between the Kefir and Goats Milk but always add the Enzymes and Pro-Biotics to my dogs food. I split the daily dosages for the supplements up for his feedings.

Now as for whether this would fix the case of your dogs intestinal sensitivities and bad gas I am not sure as I have never had a dog that has had those issues. But it never hurts to add Enzymes and Pro-Biotics to any dogs diet.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Supplements can come in capsules, tablets, softgels, liquids or powders. I personally prefer powders or powder filled capsules I can open up, I like to mix everything into the food. For most supplements it’s best to divide the recommended amount between breakfast and dinner. Some supplements have to be acquired through a veterinarian, others can be purchased from pet food stores. I personally get all of my dogs’ supplements from human supplement suppliers (Swanson, Puritan’s Pride, Drugstore.com, etc.). I feel that supplements sold for humans are higher quality and (oddly enough) they generally cost less per dose than supplements for pets. The dosage obviously needs to be scaled down (if you have a 25 lb. dog you’d give approx. 1/4 the recommended human dose, 1/2 for a 50 lb. dog, etc.) and for some supplements you’ll need to check all the ingredients to make sure they’re all safe for dogs.

[bluetry35722]

You have been so awesome with all of your help. I have a question though. I get confused when I hear the word ‘supplement.’ What form are the supplements in (i.e. pills, liquids, etc?) And are they administered once daily or with each meal, etc. Do you get your babies’ supplements from their vet or from stores like PetSmart?

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi Shihtzumom20 –

I just checked out Big Country Raw’s website – I’m jealous that you can get this food, the price is great! $2.50/lb. for pre-mixed food is very reasonable. I’m not too far from some of the retailers (I’m on the Canadian border) unfortunately I think a law was passed recently making it illegal to transport pet food across the border.

I can’t find a statement of nutritional adequacy on the website and it does appear there are a few things missing that you will need to supplement to make the food balanced. First of all, yes you will want to add omega 3’s as there aren’t any added to the food. Follow the dosage chart I posted previously. Second, after reading the ingredients for each of their foods I can tell you that there are inadequate levels of vitamin e and vitamin d. Vitamin e is difficult to supply in adequate quantities through food alone and therefore should be supplemented. It will be especially critical that you supplement with vitamin e once you start adding omega 3’s as consumption of omega 3’s increases the the fat soluble antioxidant requirement. As a general rule supplement about 50 I.U. vitamin e per 20 lbs. If you get capsules with a high dosage (most come in 200 IU or 400 IU) you can just give one whole capsule 2-3 times per week. For the vitamin d, there is some vitamin d in beef liver (about 50 IU per 4 oz.), but not all of the formulas contain beef liver and even for the formulas that do, I doubt that there is enough to fulfill vitamin d requirements. Vitamin d can be added in supplement form or (more preferably) in whole food form. Some foods that are rich in vitamin d: cod liver oil (~400 IU per tsp.), cage free eggs (~30-50 IU per egg), Kefir (~100 IU per cup), oily fish (amount of vitamin d present varies on the type of fish but sardines, mackerel and salmon are generally considered good sources), some varieties of plain yogurt and cottage cheese are supplemented with vitamin d (check the label). Your dog should be getting about 200 IU vitamin D per pound of food consumed. Also, rotate between all their protein sources – don’t rely on one – this will provide him with the greatest balance. You may also want to consider adding another whole food supplement, I see kelp is is added to a few of the varieties. Kelp is great and supplies a lot of trace nutrients but the more variety the better, especially when a dog is deriving all of their nutrition from whole foods and not relying on synthetically added vitamins and minerals. My dogs get kelp and they also get things like spirulina, alfalfa, wheat grass, bee pollen, chlorella, etc. I switch up their supplements frequently. It says they offer a vitamin/mineral supplement but it doesn’t list the ingredients, you could check that out.

Yes, RMB’s are a wonderful source of glucosamine and chondroitin. Because he’s young and he’s a small breed not prone to joint issues, RMB’s should provide all the joint support he needs for now. I wouldn’t worry about a joint supplement until he’s a senior.

[Mom2Cavs]

I have Cavaliers, who by nature of the breed, can have heart problems. One of mine has a murmur, last time assessed at a grade 2. As far as I know, atm, the other one is currently fine. My oldest was heart clear until about 10 years old and then I was told she had a grade 5 murmur and probably heart disease. She actually never really had any problems of note, though, with her heart. She just recently passed to the bridge at 12 years old, but it wasn’t her heart….she had a neurological disease (SM) that Cavs also are prone to and that caused her death. Actually, having a Cavalier reach double digits in age is great! Anyway, on to your question……while I don’t feed a “heart diet” I do try to feed as top of the line food as I can (which my holistic vet is fine with). I know that prey raw or homemade is probably the best, but either is not my choice. I have fed a variety of different kinds of food over the years. I’ve fed premade raw, freeze dried raw, dehydrated raw, canned and kibble. I’m currently feeding Acana Singles (Duck & Pear or Lamb & Apple) topped with either Primal or Stella & Chewy’s freeze dried raw or The Honest Kitchen Embark. Sometimes I top with canned foods like Instinct, Wellness Stews, Weruva, etc. I was using Merrick grain free kibble until I had an issue with a bag of the Pork grain free (strange looking and colored kibble pieces caused diarrhea). I’ve also used Merrick canned but have decided to go away from them, too, as they contain carageenan, and ingredient I’m not too comfortable with. I do know about BPA in cans, as well, and that’s why I like the freeze dried or THK. With each kind of food I have often supplemented with a heart targeted supplement (again at the advice of my holistic vet, who btw carries Nature’s Variety in his clinic). Some of my favorites are: Bio Cardio, Cardio Strength, Nature’s Farmacy heartwise and Standard Process Cardio Support. I’ve also given pre/probiotics and enzymes which I think can’t hurt. The heart supplements often contain things like COQ10, hawthorn, taurine, L-Carnitine and omega 3’s. You could also supplement these things individually. Please note that I’m not a vet, but a furmom with babies that more often than not have heart issues. I hope this helps some and gives you something to think about. 🙂

[Anonymous]

I am by no means a canine nutritionist, merely someone who has put a bit of thought into what I feed mine. My knowledge is not specific to the medical condition and sensitivity of your dog. The guidelines that I found with a superficial online search for cardiac diet were:
– Provide your pet a high-quality natural meat-based diet with at least 25-30% protein (DM basis)
– Make sure your pet LIKES the food so that (s)he consumes enough calories to maintain BMI
– Mild to moderate sodium restriction (severe restriction in advanced cases)
– Supplements: omega 3 fatty acids, taurine, carnitine, B vitamins and Magnesium.
http://www.1800petmeds.com/education/diet-tips-pet-heart-disease-32.htm

I am going to assume that you are looking for a dry kibble based on your previous food choice. I feel that the top of the line dry kibble RIGHT NOW is Orijen. However, it does retail for $80/35lb. As I feed about 400 lb of dog, the budgetary compromise at my house is Merrick Grain Free at roughly $50/35lb.

Prior to Merrick Grain Free, I was feeding Taste of the Wild, but have decided that I prefer Merrick for not entirely nutrition-based reasons. While the protein content is slightly higher and the starch from sweet potato (rather than white), they are reasonably equivalent foods (in nutrition and price). However, Merrick uses all US-sourced ingredients (nothing from China). This is a political issue and safety concern of mine. The larger scale pet recall in 2007 due to melamine contamination was traced to Chinese product, and the more recent Petco recall of stainless steel bowls manufactured with radioactive Cobalt-60 scrap was most likely (while never publicly disclosed) of Chinese origin. Merrick also happens to be manufactured in Texas, where I live. Those variables may not factor into your decision at all, but are important to me.

I could not find a cardiac specific diet offered by Hill’s in their Science Diet or Prescription Diet lines and based my quick comparison on the Adult Advanced Fitness formula. The Advanced Mobility contained more Omega 3’s and Magnesium, but was lower in protein and higher in sodium. Orijen appears to be the best choice, but may not be an option for you dependent on your personal budget. Merrick Grain Free is my compromise, but is based on a few tertiary considerations that may not matter to you. I will be interested to hear what other posters have to contribute. (The following information was retrieved from those companies’ official website product pages and is as vague or detailed as they provided.) The summary comparison is this:

Hill’s Merrick Orijen
Protein 24.2 38 38
Fat 16.4 17 17
Carbohydrate 51.5 ? 25
Sodium 0.32 ? 0.4
Omega-3 Fatty Acids 0.67 0.4 1.1
Omega-6 Fatty Acids 3.33 4.8 3.0
Taurine (yes) ? 0.35
Carnitine ? ? ?
B Vitamins
B1 – Thiamine (yes) (yes) 0.9 mg/kg or 50 mg/kg?
B2 – Riboflavin ? (yes) 45 mg/kg
B3 – Niacin (yes) (yes) 450 mg/kg
B5 – Pantothenic Acid ? (yes) 50 mg/kg
B6 – Pyridoxine ? (yes) 38 mg/kg
B7 – Biotin ? (yes) 1 mg/kg
B9 – Folic Acid (yes) (yes) 5.2 mg/kg
B12 – Cobalamins (yes) (yes) 50 mg/kg
Magnesium 0.099 ? 0.1

Since the foods that I mentioned are simply those that I am familiar with and not anything that I originally researched with cardiac issues in mind, I would recommend that you use this as a springboard for your own research. Maybe there is a better option in Innova EVO, Artemis, etc. Finish out a chart similar to that above on each of the brands that this website lists as top-tier choices. Feel free to call companies like Merrick or Hill’s to ask about specific quantities of items on their ingredients list, but not in their analysis (like B vitamins).

You might also want to consult with a veterinarian that specializes in cardiac issues regarding dietary recommendations and possible supplements. Maybe it is more cost-effective or bioavailable to top-dress your pets dinner with certain vitamins (L-carnitine perhaps). As wonderful as your veterinarian my be, my experience is that the time constraints of their day-to-day rigamarole does not allow time for general practitioners to be current and thorough on more specific issues. Reading journal articles falls to the wayside. Specialist consultation and personal research are important any time you have a specific veterinary/medical diagnosis of concern. Your vet has to have a working knowledge of EVERYTHING. You can concentrate on the single issue that is of prominent importance for your pet.

Good Luck

[Shihtzumom20]

Hi Hound Dog Mom,
Thanks so much for your reply! After doing some more research I decided to still go with a premade raw, it is a small company and all the ingredients are human grade, and from southern Ontario. It is called Big Country Raw. I have been looking at supplements and have been thinking of adding Krill oil to his raw. Would this be recommended? They do have a fish dinner, but it has salmon and tuna in it, so I think I would like to avoid that. Should I start supplementing him with Krill Oil? I like the benefits, then I read on another forum here that too many Omega 3’s can be bad too. So I was wondering what you guys think of that? And also do you guys use a joint supplement for your dogs? I have been trying to research on the internet but having been having much luck in whether to supplement or not. He is only a year and a bit, so I don’t know if I should wait to start a joint supplement or if it is beneficial to start him on it young. Also if someone could direct me to the vaccinating thread that would be greatly appreciated(if there is one)! He is coming up to his 1 year shots and I am not sure whether to get them or not, any advice on supplementing and vaccinating are greatly appreciated, thanks so much guys!

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi kmarron –

Vitamin D exists in two forms – cholecalciferol (D3, occurs in animals) and ergocalciferol (D2, found predominantly in plants). Most animals are capable of fulfilling a portion of their vitamin D requirements by producing cholecalciferol in their skin when exposed to sunlight – dogs can do this but they aren’t quite as efficient at it as people so this is why it’s important that they receive supplemental vitamin D in the diet. D2 and D3 are generally considered equally potent for most species, however I believe D3 is the more natural choice. My dogs get their vitamin D in whole food form only – I believe that whole foods are better assimilated by the body and less likely to result in toxicity so I avoid all vitamin supplements. My dogs get their daily dose of vitamin D3 from cod liver oil which has 400 IU naturally occurring vitamin D3 per teaspoon, cage free eggs with have about 50 IU vitamin D3 per egg, Kefir which has 100 IU per cup and beef liver which has about 50 IU vitamin D per 4 oz. Oily fish such as sardines, salmon and mackerel are rich in vitamin D as well. If you prepare a properly balanced raw diet there should be no need to add synthetic supplements.

[Cavalierluvr]

Hi,

A friend of mine has a 10 year old Golden Retriever. Recently it had a seizure and was taken to the Vet. It was determined that he has High Liver Function and the vet recommended supplements and a prescription dog food…Hills Science Diet Prescription LD Hipatic Health. First few ingredients are Brewers Rice, Pork Fat, Dried Egg, Soy Bean Meal. She has to pay $60 for a 17lb bag. The vet said he realizes it is expensive and said if she could not afford it, he highly recommended feeding the food over the supplements. Now we all know this is a horrible food. From her own research (not the vet) she said with High Liver Function problems, low protein is advised. Does anyone have an idea about what food she could try. Her dog was previously on Nutro Max, but seemed to be having allergy problems so she switched him about 6 months ago to Nutrisca to avoid potato. She said he seemed to be doing really well on it until this happened.

[Shawna]

Betsy wrote
“Can you tell me the difference between brewer’s yeast and yeast culture; and how they differ from the type of yeast that that makes up a yeast overgrowth?”

Brewers yeast and nutritional yeast are made from the same strain of yeast, Saccharomyces cerevisiae, but are grown on different mediums. Brewers yeast is a by-product from the brewing industry and is said to have a bitter or “yeasty” taste. Nutritional yeast is often grown on molasses and is described to have a nutty or cheesy taste. Depending on what they are grown on will vary the nutritional content of the final product to a degree. The yeast in these products are deactivate (killed) so they can not colonize the system.

It is my understanding that it is the deactivation process that frees the amino acids and creates the MSG like issues in these supplements. Fermentation, which is what the yeast does to the sugar mediums they are grown on, also creates some freed glutamic and aspartic acids. I think the amounts are relatively small but because freed glutamic and aspartic acids bioaccumulate, when added to other sources it definitely could be enough to cause illness. For those that are sensitive to MSG or aspartame, I would avoid nutritional and brewers yeasts.

There are also a few types of yeast that are considered probiotics Saccromyces boulardi is one and can be found in some probiotic products. Saccromyces is a “non-colonizing” yeast.

Candida yeast is the type that are normal to the colon and can grow out of proportion when the good bacteria are not in correct proportion.

There is another type of yeast, Malassezia, that grows on a dogs skin when the immune system is not up to par. I beleive Malassezia can infect the ears as well.

[Mom2Cavs]

Yes, thank goodness. Let us know if they are normal now. All 3 of mine had normal stool today, Yay! Knock on wood, lol, it stays that way. I’m feeding mainly the Duck & Pear (5 lb. bag) with a couple of sample bags of the Lamb mixed in with it. The dogs love the taste. I’ve been topping with a pattie of S&C’s, Fresh Digest, and adding water. Today, tho’, Lucy (Mixed Breed who has been known to be picky) wouldn’t eat! I was hoping it wasn’t the Acana….I dumped out the food and put some Wellness Stew canned in her bowl with some Acana and the Fresh Digest instead of using the S&C’s patty and water. She ate just fine. I think maybe she didn’t want to patty for some reason…? You never know with her hahaha. She is turning 12 this year and has a mass of some kind on her bladder. We know this and she does get supplements for urinary. We aren’t doing anything else, atm, because she isn’t acting sick at all (praise God!). But, when she gets picky like that…I will try to cater to her a little bit :).

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi Roobee –

If she’s that picky and won’t eat the food once you add anything to the meat I’d recommend See Spot Liver Longer Dinner Mixes, U-Stew or or Wysong’s Call of the Wild. All three are powder supplements designed to balance an all meat diet. There are instructions on the package for how much supplement to add to the meat. With these supplements you can feed just meat and your dog will be getting all the nutrients she needs. You can certainly try different extras – yogurt, veggies, fruits, eggs, etc. but if she won’t eat the other stuff you won’t have to be concerned that her nutritional needs aren’t being met.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Wysong sells krill oil capsules on their human supplements page. I use their supplements for both myself and my dogs frequently, they’re very high quality. NOW Foods and Health from the Sun sell krill oil capsules that can be found online and at health food stores – I have used products from both these brands for myself and my dogs as well.

[Hound Dog Mom]

DoggieDoc22 –

You obviously don’t know my feeding philosophy – I don’t let any company influence my decision on what to feed. I’m not fooled by Blue Buffalo and Wellness commercials or the Blue Buffalo or Orijen rep at my local pet food company. I’m not fooled by dry weight versus wet ingredients or ingredient splitting, nor do I think white potato is superior to grains. In fact I wouldn’t feed any of the foods you mentioned to my dogs (Blue, Wellness, Natural Balance, etc.). My dogs eat real food. Raw meat, bones, organs and whole food supplements the way nature intended – no marketing spin there, no ingredient splitting, no reps selling me food and no need to worry about which ingredients are going in dry and which are going in wet. You’re bashing people for buying into the marketing of certain pet food companies when you are just as blinded by the marketing tactics of the big name pet food companies as anyone else is by the small “holistic companies.”