[pwndbypoms]

Long time lurker-first time poster….

I have 2 pomeranians. My 4 yr old just had to have knee surgery due to a luxating patella and subsequent injury. His other patella also luxates but we’re trying to save it from surgery. My vet said she would normaly recommend the Hill’s Science Diet J/D formula food ( I know… but this is the best vet I’ve found in my rural area) but she knew I used “more natural” foods and to go by the J/D’s numbers for omega 3’s and 6’s to chose something I felt comfortable with.
I quickly gave up on using the J/D info for anything but the more research I do the more confused I get trying to do the math to get the ratios right.

My pom normally eats Honest Kitchen Zeal rotated with dried Ziwipeak and various brands of 5 star canned food. But he does best with a main diet of the lower fat Zeal. Before I knew about his patellas I used to add a squirt of Grizzly brand Salmon oil–but then I tried to do the math for the ratio of 3’s to 6’s and it seemed that the Salmon oil was made for food that had a surplus of omega 6 in it (which if I’ve looked at the numbers right Zeal does not). Since his surgery (about a week ago) I switched to the Missing Link joint formula for small dogs but was just wondering if anyone had any other suggestions.
Am I over thinking this? Nutrition science is not my strong point 🙂

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi Alexandra –

Glad to hear your boys like the food 🙂

Freezing won’t have a significant effect on the quality of most of the ingredients – although you may want to wait on adding any vitamin e or fish oil until just prior to feeding (to ensure maximum potency and decrease the risk of oxidation). Also keep in mind that if you use yogurt or kefir some of the probiotics will be killed off during freezing so if you want the maximum benefit from either of these ingredients you may want to wait on these as well. But you could definitely mix up all the meat, whole food supplements and other “extras” ahead of time and freeze.

[Mom2Cavs]

I have never fed their diet, but I have fed their supplements and the breeders I got my Cavaliers from also use them frequently. I think they’re quality supplements. I would consider making their diet, if I did homemade.

[Anonymous]

Hello, Has anyone ever tried the Nature’s Farmacy diet? Where their food is prepared at home and then you add all the supplements & vitamins they need depending on their health needs. (Sold from Nature’s Farmacy.) I have heard good things from friends. My Vet has never heard of them though. I hope someone here has some honest news please? Thanks for any help you can offer in advance…

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hey DieselJunki –

There are many other ways to add fiber other than pumpkin. Most human fiber supplements are fine (psyllium, flax, acacia, pectin, bran, coconut fiber, etc.). If you do go the pumpkin route, Fruitables makes a product for dogs (they have a sweet potato variety as well) which blends pumpkin, apple pomace, tomato pomace, spinach and flax to get the ideal ratio of soluble to in soluble fiber. I’ve used it as kong stuffing for my dogs before. For pumpkin I’d add a couple tablespoons to each feeding for a large dog.

I’ve experienced the same thing with Honest Kitchen. My dogs have very large stools when they’re eating it and go to the bathroom about 4 times a day (versus one or two on raw). I’ve also noticed undigested bits in the stool on occasion.

I agree with Cyndi on the DE it’s GREAT stuff. I buy it 10 lbs. at a time and mix it into my dogs’ food regularly – they’ve never had a fecal test positive for parasites.

[Cyndi]

Well, I ended up buying Earthbath Meditteranean Shampoo from Chewy.com when I ordered Bailey’s supplements. I gave her a bath about an hour ago & I LOVE that shampoo! (Thanks Sandy!) I took Bailey outside after her bath to sit on the deck to dry in the sun & holy crap does her coat shine! I am amazed! Not that it was that dull, but man, what a shine! & she is so soft & smells amazing! So, she’s been eating a raw diet for a month now, got a bath with all natural shampoo & she looks awesome! She’s got a soft, shiny coat, bright eyes, whiter than white teeth & a very happy mommy! 🙂 Thank you everyone for all your help, suggestions & opinions! I couldn’t have done it without you! I hope everyone’s having a great weekend!

[harpersmom]

Thanks HDM! Boy, you’re a font of wisdom. Anyone tell you lately that you help the world by posting answers to people’s queries? You’re a good person. Be proud.

I used to be a HUGE fan of those dried liver treats. Sometime ago, i stopped`, probably the cost or the time it takes to get to the store that carries them… I’ll see if i can order online for a reasonable amount. I can also make her my mom’s chicken liver recipe! This whole thing: Surgery, staying home, supplements- costing a fortune! She’s worth it, but i’m definitely needing to watch my budget, big time! 😉 Thanks again, HDM

[pugmomsandy]

Yes probiotics (preferably a multi-strain probiotic) will help with gas. Also digestive enzymes. I give both to my kibble feeders couple times a week. I don’t believe Nutrisource has had recalls. You can find this in stores and online. It’s mid-priced. $50 for 30 lbs and is mid-protein range. I feed the grain free recipes to my foster dogs. They don’t have gas issues with this food even though some of them don’t get supplements. For probiotcs I have mercola brand and Dr Langers by Swansonvitamins. I also give kefir sometimes instead. It’s in the milk section at the grocery store. Some people make their own kefir too.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi harpersmom –

I found this concerning CoQ10 and recovery after surgery:

“CoQ10 is found in virtually all cells of the human body as a molecular compound in the mitochondria; a long, oval-shaped part of cells that convert nutrients into energy, including in the heart, liver and skeletal muscles. CoQ10 promotes energy after surgery by functioning as a carrier to transfer electrons across the membrane of mitochondria, which are the energy generators in the body’s cells.”
[nsc24.com/surgery]

Supplementing with CoQ10 definitely wouldn’t hurt anything, although concerning TPLO surgery I’m sure some of the other supplements mentioned would provide more benefit. Oily fish (like sardines), ruminant organ meat (heart, liver and kidneys) and eggs are all rich in CoQ10.

[harpersmom]

Can anyone suggest great supplements for a 4.5 year old, Otherwise Very Healthy ,Female Akita who just had TPLO surgery, and will go back in in 8 weeks for the other leg? She’s no dummy, naturally cutting back her own calories when free feeding kibble- due to the reduction in energies spent. I feed Wellness kibble along with a Multitude of Fresh proteins & whole foods. I rotate, advocating variety: chicken, buffalo, salmon, mackerel, fresh caught river trout , a bit of seaweed for iodine, raw farm fresh eggs, some cooked whole grains (everything from barley to quinoa to oatmeal, i rotate), some greens, some fruit & veggies (avocado yesterday). I give a Fish Sourced Omega Oil supplement w/dha (extra now, for inflammation), glucosamine/chondroitin MSM, I’m making fresh chicken broth to give her collagen, and mixing the broth with gelatin for chicken blox treats. Extra protein right now for healing skin, ligaments, muscle. Normal supplements include daily and rotated treats, too: brewer’s yeast, marrow bones, cultured dairy (she LOVES my homemade creme fraiche and yoghurt), probiotics (daily, especially since she’s on antibiotics right now…wellness kibble has prebiotics in it, too), seasonally: fresh raw local honey w/pollen for allergies. Perhaps i’m leaving some basic vit/min supplements off this list, but are there any supplements that will specifically aid in healing, recover, address inflammation, or help reduce pain that i’m missing? The vet has her on Rimadyl, antibiotics, tramadol. Thank you… And if you’ve personally gone through a TPLO with a Big, Young, Active dog, i’d LOVE to ask you some very specific questions, if anyone has the time… I appreciate your help.

[Alexandra]

Thanks HDM,

So do you prepare food for a week in advance? I see that you recipie is one meal, so by that, I would get two days from a batch then.

I am nervous about this, but the benefits of 100% raw are to great to ignore. Since kibble teeth don’t look as nice, larger stool volume…great coats though. :). The new Orijen does work well for them.

Thanks for the info on the supplements, I have been doing a little shopping. 🙂

[Alexandra]

Hi HDM,

Question on the mineral supplements. What do you do to store it? How long does the mixture last?

[LckyNmbr12]

Do either of you happen to know of any resources to use when trying to determine the appropriate dosage for a dog when using human supplements?

[LckyNmbr12]

Hello, I recently rescued an american bullador pup (american bulldog/lab mix) who has demodectic mange. He is currently taking ivermectin (I know this can be dangerous but he doesn’t appear to be having any issues or reactions from it), and because he is young, my vet doesn’t think he will have any issues overcoming it with the medication and itch-relief shampoo. However, I want to ensure he gets better as soon as possible, and I hope to prevent further immune system issues. Has anyone had experience with this? Can anyone recommend any supplements or home remedies that will help get him and keep him healthy? I’ve seen there are various multivitamins aimed at immune-boosting, as well as other supplements such as colostrum. I’ve also seen that fish oil, specifically salmon oil, can be extremely helpful in mending and maintaining his skin and coat. Any advice? Thanks!!

[Cyndi]

Oh, ok. Thanks HDM! I’ll just get one of the herbal stool supplements you suggested, for now. But, let’s hope she does NOT still have loose stools come Friday!

Hi Sandy, Yes, there was a time when she had normal stools. This week starts her 4th full week on raw. She had a problem with runny stools and threw up once right at the beginning, but that only lasted for like a day and a half, 2 days at most. Then she went 11 days with perfect hard, small poops. The only thing that was different in her diet this time she got diarrehea (sorry, I just can not spell that word) was I added a small piece of chicken gizzard to her food. I can see her possibly getting runny stools from that, but not for 4 days, right? I am going to, more or less, start over. I’ll stop introducing new foods and just keep her on chicken thighs and leg quarters and the chicken grind for a bit longer.

So, I gave her breakfast about 45 minutes ago and nothing yet. She didn’t poop first thing this morning, of course, because I fasted her last night, so we’ll see. I’ll keep you guys posted….

Thanks you guys! Happy Memorial Day!!

[Anonymous]

At Bffpuppy.com, Dog lovers can get dog health care products and dog nutritional supplements at very competitive prices. We are offering a full range of dog health products and accessories.

[Anonymous]

Always keep your dog healthy with dog vitamins & supplements products from BFFPuppy.com. We offers a huge varieties of dog vitamins and supplements.

[Hound Dog Mom]

The Dr. Harvey’s herbal supplements are like whole food multi-vitamin/minerals – I don’t believe they’re for loose stools so you could give it in combination with one of the herbal stool supplements I suggested. Good luck!

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi Marie –

If you aren’t balancing the Hare Today grinds out with the appropriate supplements and nutrient-dense whole foods, then I think Darwin’s would be the better option. If you’re adding the appropriate vegetables, whole food supplements, efas etc. to the Hare Today grinds, then I think the Hare Today grinds would be the better option. I think that both the Hare Today grinds and the Darwin’s formulas likely have similar bone content (probably ~10%). Darwin’s would definitely be more convenient if you didn’t want to put the work into balancing the Hare Today grinds.

[Hound Dog Mom]

My local pet food store recently started carrying this too – I didn’t look too much into it because for some reason I was think it was HPP…but I don’t see anything about this on their website. Judging by their website it appears that it’s made with very high quality ingredients and that the company has a great system of quality control protocols in place. The two things that would prevent me from feeding this brand exclusively is that every formula contains pork – I don’t like continuous exposure to the same protein source, I think it increases the odds that the dog will develop a sensitivity to that particular protein source. The other thing I don’t like is that it relies heavily on synthetic vitamins and minerals to supply necessary nutrients. All it contains is meat, bone and pumpkin so they have to add a vitamin/mineral pre-mix to balance it. If they were to include organ meat and other nutrient-dense whole foods (i.e. a great variety of fruits and vegetables, eggs, “superfoods” like kelp, alfalfa, etc.) they could rely less on synthetic supplements and, if they were really careful about their formulation, eliminate the need for synthetic supplements all together. Ultimately, it looks fine to use in a rotational feeding plan with other brands but I wouldn’t recommend feeding it exclusively.

[Hound Dog Mom]

As long as the homemade portion is 20% or less of the meal you don’t need to worry about balancing it. If you plan on feeding more than 20% of his diet as homemade food you’ll need to balance the recipe. Add a variety of fresh cooked and pureed vegetables , pureed fruit (don’t go overboard, fruit is high in carbohydrates) and fresh minced herbs (parsley, cilantro, etc.). To balance the fats in the turkey add 1 tsp. flax or chia oil or 1 tbs. ground flax or chia seeds (provides essential fatty acids without contributing to the level of linoleic acid which is already high in poultry) per pound of turkey. For dogs with cancer the recommended dosage of fish oil is the amount that provides 300 mg. combined EPA and DHA per 10 lbs. of body weight – so for your dog you’d be aiming for around 1,200 mg. combined EPA and DHA daily (most fish oil capsules have around 300 mg. combined EPA and DHA). If you’re feeding predominantly homemade, I would recommend making one of the capsules a vitamin a and d rich quality cod liver oil (I like Carlson’s brand). I would definitely feed eggs once or twice a week – cage free are best as they’re higher in omega 3’s and vitamins such as d and e. I would supplement with around 100 IU vitamin e daily (could give a higher dosage 2 – 3 times a week). You want to add 1 ground eggshell per pound of meat to balance the calcium to phosphorus ratio. I’d also add a whole food supplement comprised of nutrient rich “superfoods” – you can buy pre-made supplement’s (such as Nature’s Logic All-Food Fortifier, Dr. Harvey’s E-mune Boost, Wysong’s Wild Things, etc.) or make your own. I make my own, I buy bulk ingredients from human supplement stores – the current blend I’m feeding is 1 part kelp, 1 part spirulina, 1 part alfalfa, 1 part wheatgrass and 1 part bee pollen. Whole food supplements will help supply vital trace nutrients. Lastly, I would recommend switching up protein sources often. Is there a reason you’re looking at feeding only turkey? If your dog doesn’t have any sensitivities it’s best to feed a variety of poultry and red meats (if you’re feeding red meat use hemp seeds/oil instead of flax or chia).

[GSDsForever]

Sorry to be the party pooper & naysayer, BUT . . .

I just do NOT think this product is worth spending the money on. I think the ingredients are very generic & see nothing special about it to make it some wonder product or justify its prices. It’s apparently all over the radio & TV right now, and I’ve had several people ask me about it.

I think there are much better supplements out there (and cleaner/purer) at lower cost. There are some ingredients that even strike me as wholly unnecessary and not beneficial in any way. And I think other ingredients in its various versions should and can easily come from a good food.

If it works for you, great, good luck. But I think it’s a waste of money and not a very well designed product with highest quality of ingredients.

This product seems about as magical as all those PetSmart/Petco supplement aisle products that claim to get rid of shedding, and then contain very basic cheap cooking oils and bargain basement vitamin mix.

[GSDsForever]

In case this helps someone else giving pills or supplements . . .

I use the whipped version of cream cheese (Trader Joe’s) and it works like a charm!

The thing that concerns me with peanut butter, once you even find an all natural one (not loaded up with sugar/corn syrup and weird additives), is the aflatoxin risk. A potent carcinogen. And then there was the peanut butter recalls over salmonella — good grief, it’s been many months and stores like Costco are just now returning the natural versions to the shelf. Trader Joe’s popular Valencia one is still gone.

[satobrinn]

Hi wantthebest4myk9:

I wanted to post this last night but I became too busy…..this is a nice starting point for a dog’s home cooked diet that can be tweaked to a dog’s specific needs. I wouldn’t hesitate to consult with either a vet or dog nutritionist if you have concerns about deficiencies or too much protein. I’m not as familiar with the dietary requirements of a toy dog other than the reality of having to feed them more often to make sure they get an adequate amount of food for proper nutrition. Carbs in general aren’t considered necessary for a healthy canine diet, but again, each dog’s needs are different. Hopefully this can be a helpful starting point and you can feel good about what you feed your dog (other supplements are optional and best discussed with your vet):

Sample daily cooked diet:
8 to 12 ounces lean muscle meat/heart/fish/leftovers
1 to 2 ounces liver or kidney (daily or every other day)
1 to 2 eggs (daily or every other day)
1 to 4 ounces yogurt, kefir or cottage cheese
2 to 8 ounces cooked grains, pasta, or starchy veggies (no more than half the diet, max)
Any amount of green or other non-starchy vegetables
1000 mg calcium (for example, 1/2 tsp ground eggshell, or 1 tsp Animal Essentials Natural Calcium, or 1 tsp bone meal that has 1000 mg calcium per teaspoon)

[gram]

My question is an extension of the “which food is best”. If you feed a variety of 5 star rated dry foods (i.e. they meet the nutritional requirements), is it a good idea to supplement your adult dogs diet with fresh foods (e.g., tomatoes, apples, eggs, salmon oil, carrots, lean cooked meat, yogurt). All these are foods that my 50 lb. golden mix likes. I feed them to him occasionally as treats. However, should I be feeding them on a regular basis as supplements?
Thanks.
Leslie

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi brianb22 –

It’s great that you’re considering switching to a rotational diet – providing a wide variety of quality species-appropriate foods is the best thing we can do for our pets.

I currently feed a homemade raw diet with different proteins, different supplements and different fruits/vegetables at each meal. When I was feeding kibble, however, I switched to a new brand with a new protein source at the end of every bag (about every 3 weeks for my 110 lb. male bloodhound) – all the while adding a different canned food toppers daily. When you first begin a rotation diet you may find that it will be necessary to slowly transition between brands (because your dogs are used to eating the same thing daily), but once you do it for awhile and your dogs’ guts strengthen you should be able to switch brands with no transition.

Any of the 4 or 5 star foods would be good options to use in your rotation – which foods you choose will really depend on your budget. I used dry foods that were grain-free and had at least 30% protein, some of my favorites were: Orijen, Nature’s Variety Instinct and Acana. I picked canned foods that were grain-free, some of my favorites were: Nature’s Logic, Tripett, ZiwiPeak and Addiction.

I’d also recommend adding some fresh foods to your dogs’ meals occasionally. Some healthy fresh foods: plain yogurt or kefir (high in quality animal-based protein and probiotics for a healthy gut), tinned sardines or mackerel (high in protein and omega 3’s), eggs (high in quality protein and omega 3’s), lean leftover meat (high in quality protein) and steamed low glycemic veggies (high in antioxidants).

Good luck!

• This reply was modified 12 years, 10 months ago by Hound Dog Mom.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi acarnes –

My suggestion would be to pick out a high quality 4 or 5 star food and add a supplemental source of fiber rather than limiting your options to high fiber foods only. Most health food stores sell fiber supplements with ingredients such as psyllium, pectin, bran, etc. Talk to your vet about how much supplemental fiber you should be giving your dog per day.

[Mom2Cavs]

I’ve tried many probiotic supplements for my dogs, including Mercola which I thought worked fine.
Recently, I used Micro Flora + from Herbsmith and loved it! Now, however, I’m not using a probiotic for them because they are doing great without one. I admit I have switched them back to Natural Balance’s limited ingredient kibble. Right now, they are eating the Swt. Pot. & Fish. I’ve been topping it with Merrick, NB, TOTW, 4Health, Blue Stews, Wellness Stews and all are doing the best they have done in years. Stools great, breath great, coats great, appetites great and all without any supplements. I’m just flabbergasted! I admit I boycotted NB (because of Diamond) and I still don’t like the fact that they use them :(, but I have to say this food is working so well. Laverne, who is my worst in the stool, allergy/intolerance dept. is doing the best she’s done since I’ve had her. Twelve year old Lucy is acting even more young, Hazel’s coat is so shiny. I’m very pleased! But, back on topic….if I were to use a probiotic again I would go with Herbsmith’s Micro Flora +.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi ella, I agree with Sandy. Homemade raw – while more time consuming – is so much cheaper than commercial raw. There are some great books out there with balanced recipes – “Unlocking the Canine Ancestral Diet” by Steve Brown is my favorite and Dr. Becker also has a great book out called “Real Food for Healthy Dogs and Cats.” I have three bloodhounds and it would cost me over $1,000 per month to feed most commercial raw foods – I’m spending around $400 a month to feed all three homemade raw (that’s including supplements and everything). I order most of my meat from a wholesale supplier for less than $1 per pound and other meats I order from Hare Today (reasonable prices and reasonable shipping), I buy my supplements from Swanson’s (very reasonably priced quality supplements). I have my recipes posted on the recommended menus thread if you want to check out the types of meats/supplements I feed. The other benefit to homemade raw is that you’re in complete control of quality. If you’re not comfortable making your own food I’d say that the cheapest commercial raw brands would be Answer’s, Bravo Balance, HPP or K9 Kraving.

[Hound Dog Mom]

It would probably be best to stick with chicken at this point. I doubt the sardines had anything to do with it – but if that was her first time eating sardines, it could be possible.

I’ve actually never been in a GNC, but I’m sure they’d have probiotic supplements. You want to look for a supplement with as many strains as possible. Most of the higher quality probiotic supplements have at least 8 strains.

Good luck! I hope this helps you can figure out what’s going on with her.

[pugmomsandy]

They’re probably still in recovery mode so their gut is still probably not optimal. Are you giving them extra supplements or their normal dose? It hasn’t been that long has it? I thought they might still be on the homemade rice and turkey.

[Hound Dog Mom]

I feed grinds for breakfast because it’s easier to incorporate the vegetables and supplements. For dinner they get RMB’s – usually a pork neck or a chicken back with some hearts, gizzards, eggs, etc. I think as long as at least a few meals a week are RMBs the dog will be getting the dental benefits.

When my dogs get too much bone sometimes their poop is almost a powder – it’s really light colored and they’ll go and it’ll just crumble into a powder. When they get a meal of organs their poop it usually darker than normal, never runny though.

[Hound Dog Mom]

You’re not looking at the right thing. Swanson’s may sell gentle digest but Gental DIgest is not their brand of probiotic and can be purchased elsewhere. Go to SwansonVitamins.com – Swanson’s has two probiotic supplements that I’ve used:

Stephen Langer’s Ultimate 15 Strain Probiotic with FOS. It’s $14.99 for 60 capsules and in addition to 15 strains of probiotics has FOS (prebiotic) and trace minerals.

Swanson Ultra Soil Based Organisms. It’s $9.99 for 90 capsules, has 4 digestive enzymes, wheat grass, oat grass, barley juice, a vegetable concentrate blend, trace minerals and 15 strains of probiotics.

The more strains of probitoics the better. Different probiotics have different functions and you want a diverse population the gut.

[InkedMarie]

I would also carry NutriSource. Like HDM says, lots of supplements. Quality treats and toys too

[theBCnut]

Any dog with a sensitive tummy needs to be placed on a digestive supplement with pre/probiotics and digestive enzymes. Sometime with the simple addition of a digestive supplement you can cure a sensitive tummy completely. Swansons has some nice digestive supplements at a great price. NutriSource has a chicken and rice food that is usually easy to transition to, so it should be good for a sensitive tummy. Their other flavors are also usually easy to transition to. Try adding a tablespoon of pure canned pumpkin to every meal until he is completely transitioned too.

[DogFoodie]

I bought the Ubiquinol from Mercola. I had been looking at supplements and was shocked when I went to see our TCVM vet and asked what he thought the best heart health supplement would be for my healthy Cavalier King Charles Spaniel and he recommended Ubiquinol for her. The only problem with it was that the pump bottle malfunctioned and I was only able to use it a couple of times before the pump stopped working altogether. I called customer service at Mercola and they said they were having a problem with the Ubiquinol pump bottle and wanted to get the bottle back to send to quality control at the manufacturer. Unfortunately, I have no idea what difference the supplement could’ve made long term as a result; but would definitely try it again.

I have the Mercola krill it what seems like the identical pump bottle and have never had a problem with that at all.

[pugmomsandy]

If you could feed her mostly canned food or canned/kibble combo at her age that would be great. They are less processed than extruded kibble and are high in moisture (of course) which is a good thing for all dogs any age. Be sure to get a product that is ‘complete and balanced’ versus ‘for intermittent or supplemental feeding only’ to be sure she is getting vitamins/minerals. A green/superfood supplement is beneficial as well. I’ve used Dr. Harvey’s supplements or similar. My 14 yr old is eating 1/2 cup of kibble with 1 cup of wet food/home made food with supplements (probiotics, green supplement, joint supp) or just wet food. Some sort of fiber of your choice (I use psyllium) will help bulk up her stools. She can have 1 teaspoon of psyllium. Or you can use canned pumpkin or even chia seed for fiber.

[soho]

I would like to share my experience with see spot live longer dinner mixes.

I ordered 135 of the single serving packets on 6-5-2012. I wanted them for my own dogs and for my friends to sell at their dog wash. The packets are VERY hard to open. There is no notch in the packet so you have to cut it open. The powder inside falls out when you cut them open and it is very messy. My friends tried everything possible to sell them but people just did not want to deal with the badly designed packets and the high price. They were offered at buy one get one half off and when they still did not sell they were offered at cost.

I wanted to try this supplement but it was a pain to use so I went with other supplements for my own dogs. I contacted Steve Brown on April 6th 2013 to see if he would swap any of the old packets for the newly redesigned 1 pound bags which are over 50% cheaper per serving. Steve Brown never even bothered to respond to my email. I had to email him twice before I finally received a reply from Chris Gelalich the general manager.

Mr Gelalich offered me one bag at no cost and said I waited too long to let them know there was a problem and that the packets were now expired. I checked and the packets were made in February of 2012. So they were already 4 months old when I received them. I find this pretty strange after Steve told me:

“Our website reviews some of the major features of See Spot Live Longer™ Homemade Dinner Mixes : fresh, lean, complete and balanced ancestral-type meals for dogs. The freshness is especially important, most commercial raw diets are not fresh, and many may exceed USDA standards for “quality:” ground meat is only considered to be quality if it’s consumed less than 3 months since manufacturing.”

Today I sent my final email to Steve as it is more than 2 weeks since I first emailed him and I have sent 3 emails to him in the last week with no reply.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi Cyndi –

Please don’t blame yourself for the death of your previous dog. We’ve all been there and made poor nutritional choices for our animals. If you didn’t know better than it wasn’t your fault. My current dogs eat a homemade raw diet – I used to feed Beneful, Dad’s, Alpo, etc. It’s a learning experience!

I completely understand your apprehension about beginning a raw diet. I was the same way when I started. I was so concerned about percentages and how many ounces of this and how many ounces of that and worried that they were missing something or getting too much of something else. You’ll get comfortable with it, trust me. I personally started with “semi-homemade” – I’d use pre-mixes to which all I had to add was meat or buy meat/organ/bone grinds to which all I had to add was veggies and supplements. I bought Steve Brown’s book “Unlocking the Canine Ancestral Diet” and finally got the confidence to try one of his recipes and make my first meal completely from scratch. I now formulate my dogs’ menus all on my own and they’re complete and balanced. Just start slow!

[NectarMom]

I am going to order from My Pet Carnivore but I am wondering if I need to add any supplements to this meat orders? I want to feed all natural and lower fat and so they recommended Young beef chunks and so I added a few others to my order since these meats looked a bit lower in fat also. Does my shopping cart look ok for my Pancreatitis girl? Do I need to delete or add anything else from this company?? I need to order today so it will ship out Monday.

I am sorry for constant asking questions but I am such a newbie to feeding raw. Thank you very much 🙂

Info: The product was added to your cart.

Cart
YOUNG BEEF CHUNKS-5 LB.
010052 $11.45 $11.45
Ground Whole Mutton-2 LB.
010039 $7.50 $7.50
5 LB. Ground Chicken SUPERMIX
CGSM5 $10.75 $10.75
Ground Beef Trachea & Gullet-2 LB.
BGTG-2 $3.98 $3.98
Ground Lamb Supreme-2 LB.
LMSP-2 $7.75 $7.75
Subtotal: $41.43

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Total: $41.43

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[BlueDog]

Yay Cyndi! I have also recently (as in yesterday) started researching a raw food diet for my 50lb ACD. I found a page (and forgot to bookmark) that helped me decide that with his weight range, I should give him about 1000 Cal/day, or about 1.25lb each day of food, including boneless meat and raw meaty bones. HDM’s suggestions are great, and I went today all around town to local butchers, grocery stores, and even a vet that has knowledge and that supports raw food diets. I made a list of what each place had to offer based on who had better prices on things, especially harder to find things like beef hearts and turkey necks. Ended up buying 3 fryer chickens that were on sale for $0.77 a lb, and some other stuff on sale. My plan is to establish my budget that I can devote to this, price everything up, and start saving. And also to buy meat when I see it for a great price. We are lucky in my area to have access to a local butcher, several grocery stores (HEB has had the best selection of doggy type meats for decent prices) and also a natural/organic food store that has a ton of the great supplements that I have seen mentioned. Check the “Transitioning to raw” thread on this section of the forum, it has a lot of great info and I think a sample recipe from HDM. There’s also a thread “Suggested raw dog food menus” that has several recipes that HDM and others have posted.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi Ken –

I’m so sorry to hear about your dog!

You’re going to want to get him on a high protein, low carbohydrate diet – a fresh, natural diet is ideal. Glucose (found in carbohydrates) acts as food for tumors – so the more carbohydrates in the diet, the more fuel there is for the tumor to grow. High levels of high quality (animal based) protein should be included in each meal. The tumor competes with the dog’s body for amino acids – so higher levels of complete proteins will help to ensure the dog’s body receives adequate levels of amino acids.

Some supplements that may be beneficial for certain types of cancer:
-Turmeric
-Bromelain
-Medicinal Mushrooms
-Amino Acid Supplements (particularly arginine and glutamine)
-Omega 3’s

These website have some great information:

dogaware.com/health/cancer.html

k9medicinals.com/dog-cancer-diet

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi Cyndi –

It’s wonderful that you’re considering a raw diet for your dog!

Owning three large and active dogs, I can sympathize with you on wanting to keep things cheap. My tips for keeping raw feeding budget friendly would be:

1. Rely on chicken, turkey, pork and beef as your primary protein sources – they’re the cheapest per pound.

2. Rather than feeding boneless meat and supplementing with calcium, incorporate raw meaty bones (chicken necks, turkey necks, etc.) as the calcium source. RMB’s are much cheaper per pound than boneless meat.

3. Rely on hearts and gizzards as your primary source of muscle meat in the diet. While boneless skinless chicken breast might be more appealing to a person, there’s no reason dogs need to eat these expensive cuts of meat.

4. Add things like eggs, cottage cheese, yogurt or kefir to stretch the meal a bit with some cheap but high quality animal-based protein.

5. Avoid pre-ground meats, they’re generally more expensive. Feed meat in chunks or dice it yourself.

6. Buy bulk – try to locate a wholesale supplier. Shop the manager’s specials at the grocery store.

7. Use supplements made for humans rather than for dogs, believe it or not they’re generally much cheaper. I order from Swanson Vitamins (cheap, high quality, big variety).

[merrymenagerie]

We just adopted a five year old maltipoo who has had several litters of puppies. Her last litter was very recent and has taken a toll on her. Her fur is very thin and brittle and she has a hotspot. Has anyone had this issue? She’s on pedigree right now, but I want to switch her to grain free. I have some supplements as well, msm, flax oil and coconut oil.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi shelties mom –

I do believe that dogs should be fed a diet rich in joint maintaining compounds (glucosamine, chondroitin, MSM, etc.) for a lifetime in order to promote optimum joint health. A dog’s natural ancestral diet which is rich in bones, cartilage and sinew, would naturally contain high levels of these joint health promoting substances. For those feeding a raw diet that includes bones/cartilage, it generally isn’t necessary to supplement with joint supplements unless the dog has an orthopedic condition (i.e. hip dysplasia) or until the dog reaches its senior years. For dogs not eating a species-appropriate diet I feel it’s a good idea to supplement the diet with whole foods naturally rich in joint health compounds (think fresh or dried trachea chews, gullet, poultry feet, etc.) or give a low dose of a joint support supplement for maintenance (the dosage can be increased as the dog ages or begins to show symptoms of arthritis). Some whole food supplements beneficial for joint health would be sea cucumber, shark cartilage or green lipped mussel (generally come in capsules or powder). A standard glucosamine/chondroitin/MSM supplement will also suffice. If a dog is showing signs of pain or inflammation it can also be beneficial to combine a joint maintenance supplement with a natural anti-inflammatory such as boswellia, yucca, turmeric, bromelain, tart cherry, etc.

[Hound Dog Mom]

NectarMom – Green Tripe is about 48% protein and 46% fat on a dry matter basis. High fat and high protein.

Weimlove – I wrap pork necks in freezer wrap – I can’t think of exactly what it’s called but it’s like saran wrap but thicker and for the freezer. I wrap them individually. For turkey necks and chicken backs I get the big freezer bags and put three backs to a bag or 6 necks (enough for one dinner for three dogs). That way everything is easy to pull out of the freezer. Meat/extras/supplements together I’m currently spending about $300 – $350 a month – so roughly $100 per month per dog. I was able to cut my costs significantly after finding the wholesale supplier. I used to pretty much only feed Hare Today, My Pet Carnivore and meat from the grocery and I’d buy pre-mixed supplements which got ridiculously expensive (before I got my new pup I was spending more on feeding only two dogs than I’m now spending on feeding three dogs!). It’s so much cheaper to buy in bulk and make everything from scratch (including supplements).

[crazy4cats]

Thank you for your reply. That is what I was hoping to hear. I do purchase probiotics and enzymes fairly regularly. My family has been supportive of my new dog food obsession. Lol! It’s funny with our previous dog, we pretty much fed the same kibble forever. We had a big gulp cup from 7-11 in it. And just filled his bowl twice a day. Now I have two bags of kibble, kept in original bags, inside tubs with lids. I have directions above tubs hanging on walls, with details on exactly how much to feed each dog at each feeding with the measuring cups I have in the bags. Just in case I’m not home and my husband or one of my kids is here to feed them. Again, thank you and I won’t worry about using the Kirkland cuts and gravy for too long as long as we are rotating kibble and using digestive supplements occasionally.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Do you supplement with digestive enzymes? Enzyme supplements that include pancreatin, in some cases, is believed to help reduce the risk of acute pancreatitis or control chronic pancreatitis. Pancreatin is comprised of the amylase, lipase and protease produced by the pancreas. The idea is that adding supplemental pancreatin to the diet of a pancreatitis prone dog will lessen the stress on the dog’s pancreas. Another option would be a pancreas glandular – most glandulars are derived from bovine sources so I’m not sure if that would trigger a sensitivity (I know you’re trying to stick to turkey for the time being). Just some things to consider.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi Kevinh219 –

It sounds like you have a knowledgeable vet – it’s always nice to see a vet recommending a more species-appropriate diet rather than the big name veterinary brands like Science Diet and Purina. 🙂

Rather than looking for a food that has all of these items, I’d suggest just finding a few grain-free puppy foods with over 30% protein that you like and adding the glucosamine, chondroitin and L-carnitine separately. Most supplements present in commercial foods are just for marketing anyways, the food rarely contains high enough levels to have any therapeutic effect. Glucosamine, chondroitin and L-carnitine can all be purchased from human supplement stores/websites – Swanson Vitamins has great prices. Just check with your vet to get recommended dosages.

[tonwol]

I am considering switching my 15 year old lab/shepherd mix’s dog food. I am currently feeding Royal Canin Hypoallergenic Selected Protein Large Breed Adult PW prescription diet. It is a potato (white potato) and white fish (herring) limited ingredient diet. The reason that I am looking to switch is due to cost. The price has been increasing on and off for the last 3 years and the last time I picked up a bag from my vet it was nearly $106.00 for a 26.4 lb bag, one month ago it was $98.00. She has been on a prescription diet since she was only 5 years old and has had many health problems so I have reservations about switching. She has inflammatory bowel disease and heart disease. Specifically she has an enlarged heart, leaking mitral valve and leaking tricuspid valve. She also had pancreatitis three times in her earlier years. She is on an ACE inhibitor and diuretic for her heart (Enalapril and Furosemide). The prescription diet is for her IBD and not her heart.

What I am looking for is a food with a fish based protein source. I would like to keep her on herring but I am not finding many OTC foods that have herring and after reading about the California Natural recall that one no longer a choice for us.

I have some questions about the fish and potato sources.
How big of a difference would it be to switch her from herring to a different fish like salmon? Would it make a big difference if the potato source is sweet potato vs. white potato?
Would it make a big difference if she has been eating a food with only one fish source and I switch her to a food that contains many different fish sources like Orijen’s 6 Fish formula?
Lastly, her current food does not have any Omega 3 or 6 added and my vet has advised against giving her Omega 3 supplements due to her IBD and pancreatitis in the past, therefor would it pose problems if I switch her to a food that has added Omega’s in addition to the fish source?

The brands I am currently researching are Evo, Orijen, Wellness, Canine Caviar, Innova Prime, Fromm, Diamond Naturals or Earthborn Holistic. Do any of these brands stand out in a nutritional aspect more than others? Are there any other brands with a fish formula that I am missing that may be an option for her?

I am sorry this is so long. Any help at all would be so very much appreciated!

Thank You,
Tonya