[DogFoodie]

It was funny, I have always thought my Golden was intolerant of fish. To make a long story short, it turns out that it was more a matter of timing. Each time he reacted, he was eating something that includes fish. I had been avoiding fish of any kind for him. I decided to do the Glacier Peaks Holistic alternative sensitivity assessment test and it said most fishes were OK. After a few weeks, I got brave, feed him a fish based food and he was fine. I couldn’t believe it. What I’ve determined is that he has environmental allergies (seasonal) and the supplements I mention have helped. His symptoms typically would present as an ear infection and itchiness. My Sam is young, he just turned three, so it took a couple of seasons for me to put together the timing of the onset of his “allergies.”

[DogFoodie]

I’ve had great success this year treating my dog’s seasonal allergies with Quercetin with Bromelain, Papain, and an Omega 3 supplement.

Dr. Becker discusses those products here: http://healthypets.mercola.com/sites/healthypets/archive/2011/07/05/valuable-nutrients-for-pets-who-suffer-from-seasonal-allergies.aspx

[Anonymous]

“Dietary supplements account for nearly 20 percent of drug-related liver injuries that turn up in hospitals, up from 7 percent a decade ago, according to an analysis by a national network of liver specialists. The research included only the most severe cases of liver damage referred to a representative group of hospitals around the country, and the investigators said they were undercounting the actual number of cases”.

“Americans spend an estimated $32 billion on dietary supplements every year, attracted by unproven claims that various pills and powders will help them lose weight, build muscle and fight off everything from colds to chronic illnesses. About half of Americans use dietary supplements, and most of them take more than one product at a time”.
Excerpts from http://www.nytimes.com/2013/12/22/us/spike-in-harm-to-liver-is-tied-to-dietary-aids.html?_r=2&
Just one example, in response to: “so if Shirley wants to go a holistic route there really isnt any harm”.

[Kevin R]

Hi all, what brands or specific products would you recommend for Quercetin as well as Omega supplements. I have an itchy Westie and am looking for something that may help alleviate some of this. Thanks!

[Shawna]

As one who actually USES holistic medications, I can say they actually DO work and work very well. In fact, there’s even SCIENCE that shows that those “food supplements” actually cure autoimmune diseases (actually, they use the word ameliorates but same thing). It’s called oral tolerization, check it out.

Here’s one to get you started
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17162357

The New York Times has a great article on oral tolerization titled “‘Hair of Dog’ Tried as Cure For Autoimmune Disease” http://www.nytimes.com/1994/10/18/science/hair-of-dog-tried-as-cure-for-autoimmune-disease.html?pagewanted=all

Pretty impressive if you ask me.

[Anonymous]

Give it at bedtime. The “holistic” stuff isn’t medication. They are considered food supplements. It will say right on the package that they are not intended to cure or treat medical conditions.

Find a vet that you trust and go by what he recommends. If you don’t have one already.
Did a vet approve the Benadryl and clarify the dosage? What is the dog’s diagnosis?

[Pitlove]

Like I said, your dog is past the point where the calcium/phosphorus ratio needs to be worried about. So I wouldn’t worry about that. I like the Fromm Gold and most large breed adult formulas because they are lower in fat than regular adult formulas which helps keep my pitbull at an ideal weight when its summer and humid down here in the south.

I would say they are important. Some large breed formulas contain trace amounts of glucosamine and MSM. Fromm Gold has chicken cartilage as the natural source of both. However, some argue that there isnt enough of an amount of either in foods to make it theraputic. Others say its made a huge difference in their dog. I feel that excersize is the key to keeping joints mobile, but when they do get older a supplement can be useful too aside from continuing regular excersize.

[Frankie B]

My cat won’t eat wet food or even moist treats. However I have found a cat food that is much higher in animal protein. While a lot of foods tend to have 55-65% of protein coming from animals and the rest from plants, Nulo uses 80-85%animal protein. To supplement her water intake I have a cat water fountain which is more attractive than a stagnant bowl and she drinks a lot more than she did before. I use the same brand for my dog. The brand is Nulo Medal Series and it’s available at Petsmart.

[Anonymous]

The echo is important to rule out a leaky valve, found a decent article on mitral valve insufficiency. Excerpt below: Can’t post the link but you can find the complete article at:
Doctors Foster and Smith Pet Education, Search articles for: Heart Failure (Mitral Valve Insufficiency) in the Dog

Treatment of dogs with mitral insufficiency depends upon the size of the heart and if clinical signs are present. Guidelines for the diagnosis and treatment of valvular heart disease in dogs are based on classifying dogs into several stages:
•Stage A: Dogs with no murmur or symptoms but who are at risk of developing valvular heart disease. These include Cavalier King Charles spaniels and small breeds of dogs.
•Stage B1: Dogs with no heart enlargement or symptoms.
•Stage B2: Dogs with enlarged left atriums and/or ventricles but no symptoms.
•Stage C: Dogs with heart enlargement and symptoms of congestive heart failure.
•Stage D: Dogs not responding to treatment for congestive heart failure.

Dogs in Stages A and B1 generally do not receive treatment, but are monitored for any changes in heart size or progression into symptoms.

Treatment of dogs in Stage B2 is controversial. Some veterinarians believe treatment of these dogs will slow progression of the disease, others do not.

Treatment of dogs in the Stage C with heart enlargement and symptoms is based on medications to help the heart pump more efficiently. Drugs that may be used include diuretics that cause the dog to urinate more and thereby remove excess fluids from his lungs. These include furosemide (Lasix) or spironolactone .
Medications such as pimobendan or an angiotensin-converting-enzyme (ACE) inhibitor like enalapril may be given to help the heart pump more efficiently. Digoxin, another heart medication may also be prescribed. If the dog does not respond well to these medications and is in Stage D, other therapies such as amlodipine may be used. Cough suppressants and bronchodilators may be prescribed is there is a chronic cough.

Diets lower in sodium may assist in decreasing the fluid build-up. It is important to maintain adequate protein intake. Attempts should be made to maintain the dog at his ideal weight. The use of omega-3 fatty acid supplements is often recommended.

What is prognosis for dogs with mitral valve insufficiency?

Many dogs with heart murmurs due to mitral valve insufficiency may live for years before developing any symptoms. They should be carefully monitored however, so treatment can be started as soon as warranted. In those dogs with heart failure, approximately half will not survive for more than 6-12 months.

[losul]

Hi again. Sorry for the tardy reply, all.

I’ve some preference for feeding a dog a majority of ruminant meats overall with a lesser amount of poultry overall in my dogs diet, provided the the beef (or other ruminant) is coming from a good, properly raised and fed source. I think the overall fats balance out better that way, and without using much vegetable fats. And as long as I can afford it!!

I wouldn’t necessarily say that beef heart is better, nothing against poultry
hearts, much depends on the source, and for just some supplemental or small batch
use, chicken hearts are handier to use than beef hearts!

I had kind of a bad experience the first time I bought beef hearts a few years ago.(from a different, conventionally raised source, feedlot) I thought never again! They were oversized and completely encased in a way overly tough and thick membrane and excessive suet.. the inside was as bad, and not at all cleaned-gristle, connective tissue,vessels, excessive suetetc., and frankly, they looked old, grayish, and tough. It took alot of effort to clean them enough to suit me, way too much effort, and ended up with alot of waste. It wasn’t worth it, and was a good while before I ever tried beef hearts again. In hindsight some of that gristle
and connective tissue, etc. , wouldn’t have hurt to include anyway!

Where I’ve been getting them the last few times, the outside only has a partial and thin membrane and little suet fat, are very fresh, and the butcher near completely cleans the insides for me, I have not much left to do except cut them up! And I get them for only $1.49/lb cleaned weight! I get good clean liver and kidneys 1.29/lb the same place. I guess not many people around here want to eat heart or organ meats! But the regular and lean cuts of beef are every bit as expensive as anywhere else! So when I make a beef batch I’ve been using the hearts for up to 1/2 of the total muscle meat amount. It equals a good savings vs using all lean human prefered cuts for all the muscle meat. In making a full balanced recipe, I can’t count the heart as organ meat, I still add the small amounts of liver and kidney, and I won’t press the heart amount any beyond 1/2 of the muscle meat count. They say too much heart can cause loose stools, never had that problem or with any any food, but the extra heart I’m using helps to keep some beef in the diet at more an affordable price for me! If one were to use all heart for the muscle meat though, there would very
likely be some deficit somewhere in the nutrition to look for and abundances of others, and I wouldn’t ever advise using overly excessive amounts. Also dogs handle cholesterol differently than humans, but heart, liver and some other organs do contain a disproportionately large amount of cholesterol, something to keep in mind. Don’t over do it!.

Faith, so your dog is about 60lbs. BTW, I believe my dog is 1/2 boston terrier and
1/2 bull terrier of some sort, probably staffy or pit, I’ve got a compact model though,
only about 40 lbs. That’s great that your feller found a loving home with you! I
would assume that his regular diet is around 1150 calories give or take? For your
purposes and for now as supplemental only, yeah I would limit the chicken hearts to
NO more than about 3 or 4 ounces. at least if and until until you are more prepared too see to it that the diet retains balance with your additions. Here, raw Chicken hearts show more calories and fat than the beef hearts, raw. (you might have to enter the serving size) but 100 grams chick hearts (about 3.5 ounces) has about 150 calories. add to that maybe a teaspoon of fish oil a day, an egg a couple times a week, and youre already pushing nearly 20% of unbalanced supplemental calories in his diet, and that then isn’t allowing for any unbalanced treats!

The more things you would add if you do so, or if you go with homemade meals, the more attention you are going to need pay to keeping nutritional balance. And you should really
balance out the extra phosphorus you are adding as it is, with calcium supplement.

If using finely ground eggshell, add 1/2 teaspoon to 2/3 t for each 1 lb of meat, organs, egg etc used. Calcium is very important in a dog’s diet, overall calcium in the diet should at least equal the amount of phosphorus, but also never going more than 2X the amount of phosphorus. a ratio of between 1:1 to 2:1. Most commercial diets I think fall between a ratio of 1.2:1 and 1.6:1, so there would likely be enough buffer already there in your commercial diet to cover your extra phosporus additions, but if me, I would still add at least a bit of calcium anyway.

raw chicken hearts

http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/poultry-products/664/2

raw beef hearts

http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/beef-products/3464/2

I hear ya on financial bias. dogaware.com is a great site with lots of useful info, some is a little outdated, as Mary Strauss is not so active anymore, but she has nothing to sell as far as I know. and has generously accumulated a ton of good info/articles there.

I prefer a pump bottle for fish oil, so I use Iceland Pure sardine/anchovy, I keep it in the fridge and get a fresh bottle every 3 months. This brand already has some mixed tocopherols in it (vit E), but I still add some additional E in my dog’s diet.

I use some veggies, fruits, and even some select grains, but never in abundance. I
don’t know if you’ve ever heard the old idiom “as fit as a butcher’s dog” I don’t
think the typical old time butcher fed his dog an abundance of starchy plant
material!!! I also still use 25% commercial kibble, haven’t ever been able to get away from it completely for various reasons.

Lastly, I might not be around here to write much anymore, but as you can see from the replies to your thread(and other threads) there are so many awesomely helpful people, good people, on site to help with questions you have, or even just support!! And even if they don’t have answers right away, they have also proven to be excellent researchers!!!

G’night everyone!

• This reply was modified 10 years, 6 months ago by losul.

[Kim J]

Thank you for your replies.

I actually just called Wellness, and asked them about this, as well as ‘why the gelatin’ that this site says actually has no nutritional value for dogs. The person I spoke to knew about the amazon post and they had seen the papers referred to. She said that the Green tea extract was given in super doses to fasting dogs, whereas it is used in much smaller quantities in their foods for its natural preservative effect. By the way, green tea extract has a similar effect in people if you take the doses that were given to these dogs. She also pointed out, as is true, that in these studies they said no such effect was seen in dogs that had not been fasted. If the dog eats the food with the green tea extract in it, it is necessarily not ‘fasted’.

As long as I had her on the phone, I asked her why they used gelatin – she told me it was basically used as a binder because of the high meat content of the food.

All in all, I was pleased with her response.

To the user who suggested Ziwipeak – thank you – I looked at it, and was impressed that it includes glucosamine and chondroitn – I currently give my dogs a supplement for these. However, so does Wellness, and Wellness has a lower fat to protein ratio than Ziwipeak. I read a couple of reviews from people that had fed Ziwipeak and said that their dogs had loose stools and/or gas when on Ziwipeak. My dogs do tend to get gassy if they eat too much fat, and since I have three Great Danes that could make for a pretty stinky house. I did contact Ziwipeak too, to be fair, and haven’t heard back. So, while I didn’t have a negative experience with their customer service, I had a better one with Wellness.

I have samples of Honest Kitchen, Wellness and Ziwipeak (I think) coming. While I prefer the latter two for their inclusion of glucosamine and chondroitin, Honest Kitchen’s grain free has an even lower fat to protein ratio, and no gelatin.

More will be revealed….

[Marianne P]

I wondered if anyone has thoughts on SpecialBlend dog food, one is chicken & rice. It sells for 69 cents a can at Save-A-Lot stores. My dog has special gastrointentional problem and has been on hill’W/D and looked at the ingredients in this and bought a can. I have not tried it yet.

starts with chicken, poultry by products, rice, then guar gum (?),sodium tripolyphosphate (?), salt , potassium chloride(?)vitamins E,A, B12, D3 supplements, thiamine monotrate(?),
BIOTIN, RIboflavin supplement, ferrous sulfate, zinc oxide,, copper protenate, manganous sulfate, potassium iodide, sodium selenite, choline, chloride, natural flavor.

is this bad or good sounding?

Marianne (and SAmantha the dog)

[C4D]

I actually use l theanine for my dog that has anxiety.

Here’s a link:
http://www.veterinarypracticenews.com/January-2012/Supplement-Can-Bolster-Pets-Anxiety-Treatment/

[Steve S]

I own an english bulldog and an a small American Bull dog. I’ve used these multivitamins and they work out great. http://www.musclebully.com/product/vitabully/ They say for bullies but I’ve emailed them because I have a friend who’s just got a normal jack russell terrier and wanted to know if he can take them. They said yes as they are general dog vitamins just cater toward bully breeds. Go to Amazon because It’s cheaper there. Here is the link . The reviews are great also

[Faith G]

Hi Losul,

Would beef hearts be better than chicken? and how much would you feed a 60lb dog daily?
also krill oil isn’t the only one I am interested in, natural salmon oils are supposed to be good also, it’s hard to search for oils when so many companies are selling it, I can’t just go on a website that is promoting their oils or supplements, when of course they are going to swear by it. I am pretty skeptical of people like ceasar millon and dr mercola, because of course they are going to say it works, everyone has an endgame: money.

[losul]

Hi Faith. Count me in as another raw heart proponent, I too think it’s a great idea! Raw beef heart is a major staple in my dogs diet. I get from a rural meat market that slaughters and butchers their own locally raised, state inspected beef. It’s not 100% grass fed beef, but pastured on grass and supplemented, especially in the winter, with alfalfa, clover, lespedeza hays and minimal grain. But it’s NOT the typical mass produced feed lot beef that comes from most supermarkets. Clean and lean it only costs me $1.49/lb.

Feed heart and you wouldn’t have any need to supplement with CoQ10! Because in addition to the great source of taurine, heart is also one the very best natural sources of CoQ10! Like the taurine, if you cook it, you will also destroy some of the CoQ10. Would also lose much of most the B vitamins by cooking.

If your dog eats say 1000 calories a day, and you are feeding an otherwise balanced diet, you should be able to substitute about 130 of those calories daily with 4 ounces beef heart daily, and not worry much about throwing the entire diet out of balance without other supplementation. It would help to add some calcium though even with that little bit of addition, as heart is also very high in phosphorous. 4 ounces beef heart has about 250 mg phosphorous, and only very minimal calcium.

I also would reccomend some omega 3 fish oils in the diet, not sure why it would need be krill oil though, unless it’s for the high concentration of astaxanthin?

[Anonymous]

Did the vet do a lung x-ray? To rule out other reasons for the congestion? Most of my older dogs eventually have murmurs. But, your dog is young…. doesn’t mean that it might just be congenital and benign. Good luck, let us know what they find.

PS: For the age related murmurs, my dogs were never prescribed medication, as they were asymptomatic. No supplements were recommended either, just a healthy lifestyle and avoid high sodium foods.

[Faith G]

The vet who heard the murmur isn’t a cardiac specialist, I took him to get neutered and that’s when they heard it. The doctor who is doing the echo in a week is a specialist. I am going to get a second opinion, although I have no doubt he has a murmur, he is very mucus-y sounding in his breathing every once in a while, and has a hard time taking full deep breaths. I have no issue with waiting until the echo before giving him supplements, it is only a week. I just don’t have a lot of experience with vitamins, or raw food, I am just doing some personal research to see if there is anything more I can do besides giving him heavy medication that they will probably prescribe after the echo. I have already spoke with my vet about CoQ10 and fish oils, he said I can try them, although he told me to be careful with coq10 because he didn’t know the recommended doses.

[Anonymous]

Check The SkeptVet for info, click on Herbs and Supplements.

[Anonymous]

Is your vet a specialist (cardiac)? I would spend my money on that first, before supplements. See what the specialist recommends.

[Faith G]

I have a two year old pit mix who just got diagnosed with a stage three murmur. I have heard about feeding raw hearts to get nutrients and minerals that they need that dry food doesn’t provide.

I wanted to know if adding raw hearts to a dry food diet will hurt or help. He’s eating 4health from tractor supply, which is seemingly the cheapest best rated food I can find. It has 4 stars on here. We have a limited income and I can’t particularly afford an entire raw diet. I want to do whatever is in my power to help him live a long life. He’s only two and I don’t want to worry about him dropping dead for just being excited that I came home, or anything like that.

If you have any information or experience with things like this or affordable supplements you could recommend please do!!!! Thank you so much.

[Pitlove]

Hi- A lot of customers at the small pet store I work at use the Primal Raw Meaty Bones (they are beef marrow bones) and we have yet to have an issue. Perhaps trying the beef would be better. Them splintering like that is definitely concerning and I would not try to feed that bone again.

As for her arthritis, make sure she has comfortable things to lay on and I would definitely suggest a supplement like this one: http://www.chewy.com/dog/naturvet-arthrisoothe-gold-hip-joint/dp/48764
Also is she still getting excersized? Its kinda like how they tell humans that they need to continue to excersize to keep their joints from stiffening when they get older. I think continueing regular excersize for older dogs is a good idea to keep the joints mobile. Obviously only do what she can handle, but it should help. Was she a rescue? She seems young even for a pit to be having arthritis.

[Joni h]

Hi Brian, I’m just wondering what you ended up going with? Did the RC Sensitive digestion or Derma contact work out? And/or did you order the Zeolite supplement?
I have a 3 year old boxer with Pancreatitis history (the whole 1st year and half of her life!!)
The vet put her on the RC LF Gastro- which did work- but it’s SOOOO expensive!!! And I didn’t like the ingredients, plus she was super skinny on it. I’m in Canada too. I put her on raw which worked like a charm, but she lost interest in it recently, plus I’m concerned about salmonella etc.. So I have had her on RC Boxer kibble for about the last year, but my vet thinks it’s only a matter of time before she has another attack. I can’t bear to see her go through that again! We almost lost her a couple of times!! But I just don’t like the ingredient profile of the LF Gastro- despite my vets assurance it has very high quality of minerals and vitamins etc, which is apparently the whole point of the food- NOT the actual “food” (protein, fibre etc). So I’m wondering if the Zeolite is the main ingredient that will be key for her.

[crazy4cats]

Hi Amelia-
Boy, can I feel your frustration. I have two golden labs that had/have similar issues. They are now four years old. I switched foods several times only to finally find out that they had parasites, both giardiasis and coccidia. Have you had fecal tests done to rule out both parasites and/or worms? Sometimes they are hard to detect and need to test a couple of times. After four or five treatments to rid of the pesky bugs, they were left with bad digestive issues. A lot of loose stools and also the walking around and dropping soft plops a little at a time like you described.

I turned to http://www.dogaware.com for a lot of great information on digestive disorders and diarrhea along with recommendations from several on this site. Pumpkin did not work for my dogs either. The Honest Kitchen’s Perfect Form worked great until my difficult dog decided he didn’t like the smell of it anymore. I also used and rotated Gastriplex made by Thorne, Vetri Pro BD by Vetri Science, and Phytomucil with success. I have fed Victor which contains clay that I think is beneficial with success. Now, I have been slowly weaning them off supplements and am feeding Whole Earth Farms with only probiotics now and then and they have for the first time have consistently firm poops!

It took a while for their tummies to heal, but it finally happened! You also might want to try feeding a little less food. Sometimes over feeding can cause loose stools as well.

Good luck! Please write back with any questions.

[cheryl w]

 Post Pancreatitis Diet-What Worked for My Yorkie
Below is a cut and paste of what I’ve written for my dog:-

I’ve written a long post on another forum about post pancreatic diet. I’m just going to share it here as well since it doesn’t make sense not to since I’ve been a member for a long time. Maybe it’ll help someone out there that was struggling like I did. The only difference between the post and now is I do give him daily fresh blended vegetable and fruit juice that are safe for dogs as well but I do strain to remove pulp to control fibre content.

Here it goes (I’m just going to cut and paste since it’s long):-

I happened to came across this forum and I joined to say please take advice from your vet when it comes to keeping your dog on prescription foods. I know when you check online, there are so many negative comments about prescription diets but when you truly have had a very sick dog and nothing works, these prescription diets are a savior. There is nothing wrong with by-products. By-products just means clean edible parts that are not meat. Knowing my dog, he probably loves the taste of the internal organs from the food he is getting even though I find it a little grossed out but I would imagine those internal organs contains a different nutrition profile than just meat alone.

My Yorkie had pancreatitis back in April of 2014 and was in the ER for 5 days and a few more days at the vet-I am lucky to have him back. He lost 20% of his weight during that attack which is a lot for a small dog. It has been a struggle since to get his weight up especially on low fat food but last week (Jan 2015), I weighed him and he is now back to his old weight. I find that there are a few things that really helps that I will talk about below.

i) Right now, I feed him 4 times a day and I alternate the feedings with 2x dry and 2x wet. I have done the math on how much to feed per meal and I have a kitchen scale to measure his meals each time. I have mine on RC veterinary low fat gastrointestinal both wet and dry because he wouldn’t eat the Hill’s Prescription-my dog is picky but whatever. The alternate wet and dry feedings work better than when you have to mix the wet and dry in one meal in terms of digestion. I have done a lot of research and I have looked at alternatives such as Wellness Complete Healthy Weight and even though the fat is low, it is still 20% more on a dry matter basis when I compared it to RC so be careful. That is why so many people are shocked when their dog gets another bout of pancreatitis on the Wellness Complete Healthy Weight because they looked at the fat percentage and it seems fine but you need to calculate the fat on a dry matter basis. Also, a pancreatitic dog needs low fiber and moderate protein as well on top of low fat-a lot of people forgot to take that in to consideration.

ii) I do supplement enzyme to his food because I couldn’t get his weight up for the longest time and I believe the enzyme really helps. He also acts like he is hungry all the time which makes me think he could have some symptoms of EPI as a result of the pancreatitis or it is just because of the low fat food. I test him by giving him some plain cooked white rice and my dog won’t eat it when he is not starving and he really isn’t. Talk to your vet and do your research about enzymes but I find that enzyme from an animal source works better. My dog’s weight went up when I switched from plant based enzyme to an animal based enzyme.

iii) Food moisture-I do mesh up the kibbles and put some warm water in there before adding enzymes. I mesh up the kibbles to help his digestion because I was struggling with his weight for a while and the moisture just helps. I just don’t feel good when my dog ate a ton of dry kibble and then drink a lot of water. For that, I place a mortar and pestle on my kitchen island. It is quick to clean and easy to use. The low fat kibble is also somewhat salty (yes, I’ve tried a piece or two) so adding some warm water helps to dilute the sodium as well.

iv) I do work the feedings out to include tiny bit of fresh food. I do give him some boiled skinless boneless chicken breast mashed up for easy digestion (of course there are some enzyme in there as well). He also gets about 8 blueberries a day in between feedings because he likes it. He also gets some coconut water in the am for electrolytes. Make sure the ones you buy are pure with no sugar added.

I’ve also heard people who said you could put your dog back to normal food when it has passed but I have asked my vet and I do not think it is a good way to go because pancreatitis can reoccur and he has seen dogs getting it again and again.

Again these are all just suggestions and steps I have taken for my Yorkie that has been successful post pancreatitis. I just hope that someone else who reads this could use the experience I have had and hopefully, he/she will have less sleepless nights than I did.
__________
As of today, the only changes I’ve made to what I’ve written above is I don’t feed him daily coconut juice anymore but he still gets veg fruit juice daily. I’m mainly feeding RC canned now with a 5% of RC dry because of the sodium content. He still gets blueberry daily but I peeled off the skin first.

• This reply was modified 10 years, 6 months ago by cheryl w.

[Patti S]

Have you tried a diet with a lower fat content? Look for one that has 6-15% dry matter.
You might try using an Omega 3 fatty acid supplement and also a probiotic.

[DogFoodie]

Allison,

Have you attempted to figure out to what your dog is reacting?

It’s likely either a food or environmental sensitivity. Your dog won’t improve until the stimulus is eliminated.

My dog gets yeasty ears when he reacts to any of his food or environmental sensitivities. I have a good handle on his diet, but environmental sensitivities present a unique challenge. I managed them very well using Quercetin with Bromelain and Papain, plus an Omega 3 supplement.

[Patti S]

Using an inexpensive topical flea product that you buy at Walmart or a supermarket such as BioSpot or Zodiac Spot On would be better than not using any flea product at all!

As far as the food goes, you won’t find a hypoallergenic dog foods at the supermarket, you’d need to look at pet stores or specialty feed stores. You need to find a food with a dog food with different protein and carbohydrate source that what he’s currently eating. You should try keeping your dog on an “elimination” diet for 8-10 weeks to see if his itchy symptoms improve. In an elimination diet, the dog is fed a food that has a protein and carbohydrate source he’s never had before. There are many over the counter foods you can use, for this purpose. I’ll suggest a few further down. Your dog’s elimination diet should not contain:

• Wheat, barley, rye – ALL of them. (including bread, snack crackers, treats, wheat/gluten, etc.)
• Dairy products – ALL of them. (including milk, cheese, whey, casein, dried skim milk, etc.)
• Soy – ALL forms
• Corn- ALL forms (including corn gluten meal)
• Artificial preservatives and colors
• Beef and fish – (only if allergy symptoms are present/persist for longer than 8-10 weeks. These are “secondary” allergies.)

By eliminating the above items, you will be taking care of at least 80% of all food allergens and all three of the major sources of food intolerance (gluten in grains, casein in dairy, and soy protein.)
This diet must be strictly adhered to, it includes ALL foods, including TREATS and TABLE FOOD! Be strict! Food allergies can be very sensitive conditions and the least amount of the offending substance can trigger reactions that can last for days. Be creative in finding safe treats for your dog those that MATCH the diet rules. This will be a lot harder on you than your dog.

Giving your dog an essential fatty acid supplement can also help suppress itching. Arachidonic acid is stored in cell membranes and released when the cell is damaged, it then combines with certain enzymes causing inflammation and itching. Essential fatty acids combat this reaction because the essential fatty acids combine with the enzymes, making them less available to bind with arachidonic acid, reducing the inflammation and itching. Your dog would need to be given an essential fatty acid supplement daily for at least a month before you see it’s beneficial effects.

[Pitlove]

Hi Brie- Always nice to meet a fellow pitbull owner and first let me just thank you for taking one in with some behavioral issues. They are often euthanized for being aggressive etc.

My male pitbull has some skin issues as well, his mimic seborrhea. He gets patches of oily flakey skin and when the skin falls off it takes his hair with it and the end result is a sore that heals and the cycle is repeated. My vet firmly believes that his skin problems are environment related with possibly a minor food component.

So far I’ve tried a lot of different foods and I’ve used different supplements etc. I haven’t gotten around to going to the dermatologist like my vet recommended, but I’ve seen a vast improvement in his skin condition with the addition of salmon oil to his food. A lot of his hair has grown back and the flakey patches have reduced in number. He eats Fromm Gold Large Breed Adult which is mainly duck and chicken based. He is intolerant to beef, but it seems hes just fine on chicken.

My suggestion is to find a food with a protein and a carb he has never had before (there is no reason not to use grains if he is not intolerant to them. I view all carbs as fillers, but thats just my opinion) and see if there is any improvement. True elimination diets are not always easy or fesiable to do for a lot of people and it also takes getting everyone that comes in contact with the dog on board and monitoring them like a hawk. They can not have ANYTHING but that food.

Pitbulls are more prone to skin issues and I see that your girl is mostly white, which is also a contributing factor. My pit comes from a very bad breeder, who bred these skin problems into the litter. I didn’t know any better about backyard breeders when we got him, but now I feel as if I did rescue him even though most would say I didn’t.

Getting different opinions from different vets is also a good idea. 3 out of 3 vets I saw confirmed my boy was reacting to something in the environment. It might be helpful to talk to more than one vet and see if there is a consensus about the food intolerance.

Best of luck, keep us updated!

[Suzanne N]

I’ve heard coconut oil can be used topically and orally for yeast infections. as with any supplement, it’s not 100% guaranteed to work but it’s worth a shot. here’s one of many articles outlining the greatness of coconut oil:
http://dogwalkerworld.com/health_nutrition/coconut-oil-dog-nutty-idea/

if that doesn’t work, or in the interim, perhaps bring him to a groomer to have his paw fur trimmed down so that they dry thoroughly.

good luck!

[C4D]

Dinovite is just a supplement. I also feed THK base mix, as Cockaliermom mentioned, with fresh cooked meat I buy at the grocery store. It’s a less expensive option to raw. My dogs don’t have allergies to chicken, turkey, beef or pork, so I stock up on what’s on sale & crock pot cook several days worth.

[Anonymous]

Consider seeing a dermatologist for allergy testing (not a mail-in saliva test) for the most accurate results.
/forums/search/allergies/
http://www.allergydogcentral.com/category/symptoms/
PS: In my experience, sprays and OTC stuff, supplements don’t work. You could try a grain-free, potato free food. An elimination diet under the guidance of a vet might help, however if the allergies are environmental, it won’t make much difference, if any.

[Brie B]

Hi there. I have a pit bull mix thats around a year and a half old. Shes recently started developing some terrible allergy issues. She gets these rashes all over her neck and armpits, gets really bad ear infections, and is constantly itchy and restless.

I was considering switching her to raw, but I just realistically can’t do it (shes a rescue with a ton of behavior issues so the cost for trainers/meds/behaviorist is outrageous). I dont make a lot of money, but I want her to be happy and healthy.

ANYWAYS. Shes on Taste of the Wild for her food. I use their salmon formula. Shes 55lbs.
Are there any suggestions for supplements, probiotics, or anything to add to her food that you think would help? I also would be down to switch her food brand, I just want to make sure its grain free.

[Nick G]

I started cooking for my dogs recently and would like to know if the recipe I came up with is suitable for my dogs’ nutritional needs.

2 pieces of wild caught cod (about 1-1.5 lbs.)
2 7.5 oz can of low sodium pink salmon
4 eggs(shells included)
1 16 oz bag of split peas
1 cup of quinoa
1 cup of brown rice
1 16 oz half bag of broccoli
1 1/2 sweet potatoes
1 1/2 cup of blueberries
2 tablespoons of flax seed
2 tablespoons of virgin coconut oil
probiotics and vitamin supplements added

This feeds a 120 lb and 50 lb dog for about a day and a half.
I give my big guy human grade glucosamine.

I think my portions in the recipe may be off. If anyone spots other problems please let me know.
I’d like to alternate fish proteins only as I don’t approve of the inhumane treatment and filthy farm factory environments on which poultry, beef or pork are processed . If anything I may consider adding free range chicken as a supplemental protein along with the fish if necessary. I bought some wild caught mahi mahi for my next batch. I was unable to find information about that type of fish’s benefits or detriments in a dog’s diet.

Thank you in advance for your help.

[Anonymous]

Consider seeing a dermatologist for allergy testing.
/forums/search/allergies/
http://www.allergydogcentral.com/category/symptoms/
PS: In my experience, sprays and OTC stuff, supplements don’t work.

[Frances A]

I started feeding my mini schnauzer and GSD a locally made food called Pet Wants which was recommended by my groomer. I went to reorder it and noticed the first ingredient in every flavor is meal….chicken meal, lamb meal, whitefish meal. Is this a no no?

We have struggled with finding the right mix for our GSD. He tends to get the itchys very easily, as does the mini schnau. I have tried all sorts of foods from Natures Variety to Taste of the Wild to Raw. We seem to be in a good place with this food but I’m leary the main ingredient isn’t pure chicken. Here’s the ingredient list: Thank you!

Whitefish & Duck Grain Free
Pet Wants Whitefish & Duck Grain Free dog food is formulated to meet the nutritional levels established by the AAFCO dog food nutrient profiles for “All Life Stages”.
GUARANTEED ANALYSIS:
Crude Protein, min – 30.0%
Crude Fat, min – 16.0%
Crude Fiber, max – 4.5%
Moisture, max – 10.0%
* Omega 6 (Linoleic Acid), min – 2.5%
* Omega 3 (Linolenic Acid), min – 0.53%
* Glucosamine, min – 800 ppm
* Chondroitin, min – 400 ppm
* Not recognized as an essential nutrient by AAFCO dog food nutrient profiles.
INGREDIENT LIST:
Whitefish Meal, Duck Meal, Chick Peas, Field Peas, Chicken Fat (Preserved with Mixed Tocopherols), Lentils, Tapioca Starch, Carrots, Celery, Beets, Parsley, Lettuce, Watercress, Spinach, Whole Ground Flaxseed, Natural Flavor, Kelp Meal, DL-Methionine, Salt, L-Lysine, Calcium Carbonate, Choline Chloride
Vitamin & Mineral Premix:
Glucosamine HCL, Potassium Chloride, Fructooligosaccharide (FOS), Chondroitin Sulfate, Vitamin E Supplement, Ascorbic Acid, Niacin Supplement, Organic Dried Kelp, d-Calcium Pantothenate, Riboflavin Supplement, Biotin, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Thiamine Mononitrate, Vitamin A Acetate, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Citric Acid, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Folic Acid, Iron Sulfate, Zinc Sulfate, Zinc Proteinate, Iron Proteinate, Copper Sulfate, Zinc Oxide, Manganese Sulfate, Manganese Proteinate, Copper Proteinate, Manganous Oxide, Sodium Selenite, Calcium Iodate.

Calorie Count: 437 kcal/cup
Feeding Suggestions*: (Standard 8 oz. measuring cup)
*These are quantity suggestions; the amount you feed your pet can vary, depending greatly upon the breed, activity level, metabolism and your preferences.

[Anonymous]

If it was my dog I would make an appointment with a Internal Medicine Specialist (traditional not homeopathic) ASAP.
In the meantime I would stop all supplements and keep the diet as simple as possible.
http://skeptvet.com/Blog/category/nutrition/
I would consider a veterinarian recommended prescription food until the dogs are stable (could take a few months), then evaluate my options.

What did the emergency vet advise you? What was the diagnosis?
PS: I would call the emergency vet and have him call you back when he has a minute and ask him these questions.

[DogFoodie]

Hi Chris,

If you’re just using it as a topper, as opposed to using it as his total diet, I wouldn’t worry about adding supplements. Just keep the toppers to no more than 20% of his daily caloric intake to avoid throwing off the nutritional balance of the kibble.

I would consider some other veggies. Instead of potatoes, I might use spinach, broccoli or kale. Look for other dark green and orange veggies. It might not sound as tasty to us, but I’m sure your dog will still love it.

[Jacqueline G]

I’ve been supplementing our kibble with the PetFresh tender chicken. She loves it! Last night I noticed several of the kibble chunks were moldy. After a quick search I discover this has been an issue. Our purchase came from a working refrigerator, traveled home in a freezer bag and immediately went to fridge. Lot # 1832 FBP Best Buy Date 11.18.15

Looks like it’s still happening and I won’t be purchasing again. I’ve sent a message to PetFresh. Just saw the CEO on Jim Cramer recently bragging they’d never had a recall. Just because you haven’t recalled does not mean you shouldn’t have if there are months of complaints. And I was considering investing. NOT NOW.

[Dori]

I use Standard Process’s Canine Whole Body Support for only one of my dogs and that is because she is 16 years old and has some health issues now. My dogs are commercial raw frozen fed, also at times freeze dried. Their treats are fruits and veggies. Nothing processed so that, in theory, the other two (6 years old) don’t need any supplements so they don’t get any. I only started adding the supplements to my old girl a couple of years ago on a regular basis. My theory with her is that at her age and health issues she could use a bit of extra help.

IMHO, Pet Tabs are one of the worst multi-vitamins on the market complete or otherwise. As I said, just my opinion.

Standard Process Canine Whole Body Support can be purchased on line or directly from Standard Process through a veterinarian. It’s a whole food supplement in powder form, comes with a scoop and for my size dog I give her 1/8 tsp. 1X daily mixed into one of her meals.

[Allison A]

Thank you all for the input! Susan, those are great ideas, and I will be contacting a few companies. I’m not sure yet if fat aggravates his system, so my plan is to keep him on a lower fat combination to give his gut the best chance to settle down. He does really well with eggs, though.

I was also thinking that maybe instead of eventually mixing in another kibble, to add some home-cooked food to the W/D. Things like ground turkey, a little boiled liver, etc. Honestly, it might be easier (and less expensive than the super premium kibbles) than trying to find a kibble that agrees with him to add to the W/D…and there’s no risk of a product being discontinued when the supplemental food comes from meat section at the grocery store!

So far, he’s doing fantastic on the W/D. It really is amazing how fast that changes his poops from total mush to firm. He doesn’t even seem to notice the Tylan, thankfully. I’ve heard some dogs really dislike the smell and taste of it.

Any thoughts on giving the W/D a “boost” with bland, home-cooked foods? Down the road, of course, when he’s regularly…regular.

[Nancy B]

Susan: I adopt senior rescues, 9 years and up. I feed Champion’s Origen and note soft, thick fur, good energy, no vet bills, just an annual checkup. And I have no idea what they were fed in their past. I add Tbsp canned Castor & Pollux, and give an Omega-3 capsule for supplement. My two are now 12 and 13 and going strong.

[Allison A]

We were able to get an appointment pretty quick. The vet thinks he has chronic, fiber-responsive colitis. About a month ago, he had a bout of bloody diarrhea following a couple days of Rimadyl (he had tweaked his hip after playing a little too hard). Initially it was thought that he’s just one of those dogs whose GI tracts are sensitive to NSAIDs. After some metronidazole and Hills Prescription WD, that cleared up. He went back to loose stools after that; he had loose stools prior to that episode as well.

He will likely have to remain on WD long-term. So far, that is the only thing he has formed stool on (even when we supplemented insoluble fiber, which is what the WD contains). He is on a 10-day course of Tylan, too.

I hope at some point to be able to give half WD and half something better, or supplement with egg, liver, etc. He’s a young, active boy, and the WD is pretty low in protein.

[Anonymous]

A concern is, that many folks pursue these alternative therapies instead of getting veterinary care. Some people won’t bother getting the animal properly diagnosed.
And some of these natural remedies have interactions with real medicine….

There are all these products advertised all over the internet that claim to cure just about anything, unfortunately some people believe it.

PS: I use supplements on myself and pets in moderation and in conjunction with medical care. Less and less lately, as I can’t afford them and am skeptical as to how much it really helps.
“To each his own”

[Anonymous]

There are a bunch of reasons people why don’t go to the vet right away (or at all). Just to name a few:

1) Fear and mistrust of medical people, especially veterinarians.
2) Financial concerns
3) Denial that the condition could be serious, supported by well meaning friends “Oh, it’s probably nothing”. “It will go away”.
4) Trust issues, pet owner may think all vets and veterinary clinics are out to “rip them off”.
5) Decide to try home remedies, supplements, and over the counter gobbledygook.
6) Look into homeopathic care (see #5)
7) Decide the dog food is to blame, try new diet.

PS: Recent SkeptVet blog http://skeptvet.com/Blog/2015/08/veterinary-medicine-is-a-business-and-that-includes-alternative-medicine/

Sorry, I couldn’t help myself 🙂

[C4D]

Hi Kevin B,

The thing is, Purina is including some of the things that more natural feeders have been using for years and calling it proprietary. MCTs, fish oil and glucosamin can be found in a lot better products than generic poultry byproduct meal, generic fish oil and manufactured MCT oil. They are also charging a fairly high price for some mediocre ingredients.

Link: https://www.proplan.com/dogs/products/bright-mind-adult-7plus-chicken-rice-formula/#ingredientsandguaranteedanalysis

I have an almost 11 year old Lab (aka old dog by your standards) with diagnosed arthritis in her 2 back knees (torn ccl’s) and she is on NO medications, walks/jogs almost 2 miles daily, runs and chases all the wildlife in the back yard, has stellar blood panels, a beautiful shiny coat, good teeth overall (she’s any aggressive chewer and had some dental work done as a result) and does act like a young dog. I feed her some good kibble and canned food mix along with a fresh meal daily. She does get supplements of Coconut oil, fish oil (human supplement sardine and anchovy) and Glucosamin/Chondroitin. You might want to try adding some really good fresh or canned food to his diet and look into supplements and you might be surprised how much more improvement you’ll see. 🙂

• This reply was modified 10 years, 7 months ago by C4D. Reason: defining fish oil I use

[Anonymous]

I don’t read the bags that closely, who knows how accurate they are.
And all dogs are different. My senior small breed does well on Wysong Senior softened in water overnight in the fridge with a liitle cooked chicken or lean meat or scrambled egg.
He also does well on Nutrisca Salmon and Chickpea.
Supplements as indicated.

[Anonymous]

Have you consulted an Internal Medicine Specialist? If you haven’t, I would.
Food and supplements are not medication or treatment.
PS: In my experience, less is better when you are dealing with a dog with a sensitive stomach.
No supplements. No OTC gobbledygook. Keep it simple.

[Allison A]

I have a 4-year-old, 65-lb English Pointer who has always had very loose, unformed stools (applesauce or unset pudding), regardless of the food or supplements I have given him. He has a clean bill of health, and no medical reason for the loose stools that the vet has been able to find. He does have formed (still soft) stools on Hills Adult Light, which has a 13% fiber content. The vet thinks he is fiber responsive since the high fiber food gives his stool some consistency. I hate feeding him Hills; all my previous dogs have done great on 5-star foods. He is an “ears and rears” dog, and both seem to bug him when he eats the Hills. Currently, he’s getting half Hills and half Orijen Regional Red with a couple Primal freeze-dried nuggets (lamb) and a hard-boiled egg on top. I think the Primal freeze-dried actually firms up his stool a bit. I can’t afford to feed him freeze-dried exclusively.

The freeze-dried contains ground bone, and I am wondering if that is what helps. It’s a minor improvement, as I’m only topping his kibble with these nuggets, but there is a slight difference (mashed banana consistency). Any thoughts on giving him supplemental bone meal? There are human grade options on Amazon, and several reviewers mention it firming up their dog’s stool.

All ideas are welcomed. Below is a list of things we have tried, and that have failed.
– Limited ingredient diets – fish-based (Merrick, Natural Balance)
– Oat bran
– Canned pumpkin
– Diggin’ Your Dog (dried pumpkin fiber powder)
– Yogurt
– Probiotics
– Ground flaxseed (Missing Link supplement)
– Psyllium (aka: Metamucil)

[Allison A]

It is an exhaustive process, for sure. There was a moment that I thought it could be the fat content of the food, but he had diarrhea with Natural Balance LID Fish and that has 10% fat. Normal-ish stool on Hills Adult light, and that has 9% fat. Obviously that 1% isn’t making that huge of a difference, so it has to be the fiber content.

We slowly titrated up to 3 TABLESPOONS of psyllium a day, which would cause major changes for a 200-lb man, and there was no improvement. All it did was give him gummy stool that he strained to get out, and it was still so mushy that his anal glands started bugging him.

Here are the Hills ingredients:
Chicken Meal, Pea Bran Meal, Whole Grain Sorghum, Whole Grain Wheat, Corn Gluten Meal, Cracked Pearled Barley, Whole Grain Corn, Powdered Cellulose, Chicken Liver Flavor, Dried Beet Pulp, Soybean Oil, Lactic Acid, Flaxseed, Potassium Chloride, Iodized Salt, L-Lysine, Choline Chloride, vitamins (Vitamin E Supplement, L-Ascorbyl-2-Polyphosphate (source of vitamin C), Niacin Supplement, Thiamine Mononitrate, Vitamin A Supplement, Calcium Pantothenate, Biotin, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Riboflavin Supplement, Folic Acid, Vitamin D3 Supplement), minerals (Ferrous Sulfate, Zinc Oxide, Copper Sulfate, Manganous Oxide, Calcium Iodate, Sodium Selenite), Taurine, Oat Fiber, L-Carnitine, Mixed Tocopherols for freshness, Beta-Carotene, Phosphoric Acid, Natural Flavors, Dried Apples, Dried Broccoli, Dried Carrots, Dried Cranberries, Dried Peas.

I’m trying to figure out which of the fibers in there is the magic bullet. If it’s the corn and wheat that helps his stool but makes him itchy, then that stinks! Beet pulp absorbs a ton of fluid (have experience with that as a component of horse feed), but I haven’t been able to find a quantity of beet pulp for purchase that’s less than 50 lbs.

I have no issue cooking a completely home-prepared diet for him, but if he’s going to need something like kangaroo protein, then a commercially available food is going to be more economical.

I am not a fan of probiotics. A two-week trial gave him explosive diarrhea; same thing with three of my previous dogs. Personally, I have an extensive GI condition, and probiotics have been the worst thing for it. I know some people and animals have great results with them, but that hasn’t been the case in my household.