[Mike Sagman]

Hi Barbara,

We currently list various versions of 3 raw dog food brands in our Editor’s Choice members area:

Nature’s Variety
Primal
Stella and Chewy’s

Although there are other raw foods that get 4 or more stars on the regular website, none of them meet all our requirements for Editor’s Choice. You can find most of these guidelines listed in this article:

An Insider’s Guide to Finding Superior Dog Food Brands

Hope this helps.

[Susan]

Hi Dina,
I live Australia & alot of foods that are NOT American made will not be on DFA review site…
DFA is an American pet food site….
Google “UK Pet Food Reviews” & the UK pet food site comes up, I just put in “Unipaws in the “UK Pet Food Review” site & nothing comes up, so a UK pet food company must just make the Unipaws specially for dogs in Indonesia & it’s not sold in the UK or its sold under a different name…
Can you get any Australian or American pets foods in Indonesia?
can you get American brands “Acana” “Merrick” “Canidae” or here’s a few Australian & New Zealand made brands “Meals For Mutts” “A La Carte” “Ivory Coat” ” Ziwi Peak” K-9 Natural” “Barf Dr B’s” that are sold overseas…

A good dry kibble will have 2-4 meat proteins as 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th ingredients followed be a carb, the meat protein should be followed by a meal, cause when they write the ingredient list the ingredients are raw & after these ingredients are cooked they shrink & move up the ingredient list & are not 1st or 2nd no more…..

Here’s an example of a 5 star kibble…
“Canidae” Pure Sky” formula, Duck, Duck Meal, Turkey Meal, Sweet Potatoes, Peas, Chicken Fat, Potatoes, Suncured Alfalfa, natural falvours, minerals & vitamins,
Protein-32%, Fat-16%, Fiber-4%, Carbs-30%
What are the first 5 ingredients in the Unipaws formula your feeding?

[Barbara L B]

Not looking for trouble, just checking, as a newer raw feeding dog. Currently have Steve’s, Darwin’s and Primal in the freezer and frankly Steve’s is looking good at half the price of the other two.

[anonymous]

Try a fresh cold raw carrot to chew on. My dogs love them as a once a day snack. You could even freeze them first (good for teething puppies) but it’s not necessary.
A good source of fiber, low calorie. Don’t be alarmed if you see carrot chunks in their feces, this is normal and harmless.
Also keep an eye on your dogs to make sure they are not gulpers (choking hazard) and that they chew/gnaw/ break them down before eating.

[poodaddy]

This thread is old (2014) then jumps to 2017. If anyone is tracking on this subject, and wants to collaborate in a specific “area” of this site, who can help understand how to manage a forum or subject, concerning the pursuit of and finishing of a raw dog food system that is complete from create the menu, crunch the numbers, determine the supplements (from the science of nutrition), let me know. I am into this in a big way, have been cataloging the personal journey from knowing nothing to gaining 100% control of the data, have the background in model development, and have the interest in using science to demystify it all. And it is all driven by my love for my two cockapoos and nothing else.

I am on a quest to find a group (of one or more) who have this interest as I am at the 90% stage on completing the project.

[poodaddy]

Here is my “3 cents” on the “raw dog food” subject: (1) there is the observation aspect of positive change in stool, gland secretion, in some cases behavior, athletic performance noticeable by all those I am associated with in the transition of commercial to raw (not cooked), (2) there is the science aspect of knowing through nutrition science what the menu actually is from researching/collecting the food data and analyzing it for macro, micro, vitamin, fatty acids data, and (3) there is the analytical aspect of comparing the menu results from (2) above to industry standards for minimum daily requirements adapted to your dog’s lifestyle/function and supplementing the raw menu to meet that standard.

I have completed (1) and (2) in an open Excel system and am working toward (3) at this time. I am interested in collaborating with a group of people who are highly interested in the above, and in so doing move the raw food discussion to a far higher level.

[poodaddy]

Michael B,

For about 5 months now, I have been developing an integrated system using Excel as a complete nutrition model specifically targeted at total visibility of all elements/variables for raw dog food preparation. This initiative is not for commercial sale, is for my use to control every aspect of planning, designing, shopping, manufacturing, and feeding my dogs. The system has two items remaining to be complete before I am comfortable starting to share my knowledge, and the software development: (1) industry recognized source of canine MDR (wet) or MDR (dry with conversion methodology to wet) for all micro-nutrients and vitamins and (2) sources for concluding my research into supplements to finish the balancing.

So,… if you want to start a dialog on this, let me know.

[poodaddy]

Rea, I can assist you. I just joined this forum today and need some advice on how to navigate inside it and find the right place for my interests. Would you help me or introduce me to someone far more knowledgeable with on-line forums that I am?

On your question about carbs, there is the theoretical response based on nutrition science and there is the practical how to do it. Will provide you with the practical and see if this satisfies your need.

Assumption: requirement is to calculate carbs in grams weight from a known food of a known weight.

Approach: find that food’s nutrition profile that states the carb content per serving.

Data Source: use nutritiondata.self.com to find the food’s macro nutrient profile. There are other sources but let’s use this one.

Method:
(1) select per 100g on the site pull down.
(2) record the database results for carb content per 100g.
(3) weigh your sample in g (or convert your food weight to g).
(4) food weight (g) x food data [carb (g) per food sample size 100 (g)] = carb (g).

Illustration: what is the carb content of 1.3 lbs of raw zucchini
(1) go to http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/vegetables-and-vegetable-products/2639/2

(2) record the data for a pull down selection sample size of 100 g to be 1.2g Prot, 3.3g Carb, and 0.2g Fat.

(3) convert your sample to (g). Let’s say you weight your 1.3 lb in grams and it shows 591g. The conversion factor for lbs to g is 453.592 g/lb, i.e. weight lbs x 453.592 g/lb = weight g.

(4) 591 g Zucchini x 3.3 g Carb per 100 g sample = 19.5 g Carb.

Hope this fully clarifies the matter for you. poodaddy

P.S. For the percent, assuming you were looking for the percent of carbs in zucchini, it could be as simple as reading the percent data from the nutrition database output Or you could use the 3.3 g Carb per 100 g sample = 3.3% by weight. The only issue with this in isolation is to do this for a menu, requires the total grams of Carb for all foods in the menu to be divided by the total grams of the menu x 100 for the percent of Carb in that menu.

• This reply was modified 8 years, 6 months ago by poodaddy. Reason: Need to finish the response based on question related to "percent"

[Cotons mom]

Can someone tell me which vaccines I can get titers drawn on. Both my pups are due but I don’t want to give unless they actually need them. I live in Virginia so I know they have to get the rabies, but I don’t want to give something.
thanks

[Susan]

Hi,
Compared to Whole earth farms yes you probably are getting more meat protein with the Crave dog food, the Whole earth farm when I had a look at a few formula’s only had 1 meat meal as 1st ingredient then a carb that was it…
The Crave Dog Food has chickpeas, (Garbanzo beans) as 3rd ingredient then its has pea protein as 4th ingredient, then split peas as 5th ingredient, it’s a bit pea heaving, this is call ingredient spliting, where the pet food companies write pea protein, pea flour, pea fiber etc instead of just writing peas, if they just wrote peas the peas would probably be 1st or 2nd ingredient, so they splilt the same food ingredients up to move it further down the ingredient list….

When the ingredient list is written it’s done when the ingredients are raw not cooked, so it’s good there’s Chicken Meal, Lamb Meal & Salmon Meal, it would have been better if the ingredient list read, Chicken, Chicken meal, Lamb Meal, Salmon Meal, then potatoes, peas, & chickpeas, you’d probably would be getting 29% meat protein, the rest would be plant protein but at the moment your probably getting around 20-24% meat protein & the rest is plant proteins??…
It would be good if these pet food companies had to write the plant protein % & the meat protein % on the kibble bag, we’d probably have a shock with how low the meat protein really is in these kibbles especially all these’s new grain free kibbles using chickpeas, lentils pea protein, split peas, pea flour, pea fiber, pea starch etc, these ingredients up the protein %…

Rotate between a few different brands with limited ingredients that agree with your dog that have a few different ingredients this way your dog isnt eating the same ingredients 24/7 then reacting to an ingredient cause that’s all he’s been eating, look for a kibble with 3 meat proteins as 1st 2nd 3rd ingredients then sweet potatoes, peas, rice, barley, are better sometimes then these grain free kibbles that are higher fiber & proteins cause they have chickpeas lentils peas as 2nd, 3rd or 4th & 5th ingredients…

[Susie]

Hi there. My 12 yr old has several sebaceous adenomas and until recently they weren’t giving her trouble. Recently one on her flank began bleeding and not healing so off to the vet. The vet said he could do cryotherapy but because he wouldn’t use a local we opted to see if it would heal and just leave it. It’s been a month now and it won’t heal. Our vet gave us quadritop so I’ve been using it and still it’s not healing but not getting worse either. She’s not licking it so that it isn’t the problem. The ointment could be the culprit. I have an appointment with a dermatologist in 2 weeks and if we remove it they do use a local anesthetic and or a mild sedative to calm her. Has anyone any experience with this? I would like to hear he good and the bad as I am so nervous. Hers is smaller than an eraser. The real issue is not the adenoma but the skin surrounding it is dark red and in a few areas it kind of looks open and raw. Would you all go to a dermatologist or would you just let your basic vet handle it? I just thought a dermatologist would be able to give her better treatment and maybe have a better more efficient treatment plan. Thank you.

[Atlas T]

Thanks again to everyone for all the info! I hear both of you on the reasons to choose the Salmon food (continuation of the current protein) or the Turkey food (the fish one might have more toxins). I’ll have to weigh the good and the bad and make some decisiosn. A few quick responses:

-Susan, on the bones – I have some raw beef bones that I gave him about 1.5 months ago. It sort of coincided with his belly issues, so I have some hesitation whether raw bones could have contributed. What are your thoughts? Do you think it’s ok to give raw bones to a 7mo old puppy with some tummy issues? Or should I wait until we’re totally in the clear? And in regards to Rodney Habib, I’ll check him out. As to the healthy treats/toppers, shall I wait to give him those until his tummy is more sorted? I wonder if raw carrots or things like that may do more harm than good at this point.

-CockalierMom, thanks for the recommendation of calculating calories. I took some time to do that yesterday, and seems like I’ve been feeding him exactly the right amount, maybe even a bit on the high side. Given all that, he still seems super hungry. Should I give him more food? He does get quite a bit of exercise. We are on day 5 of the LID food, and he is getting 2.5 cups of that per day, as well as 1.5lbs potato, and .5lbs chicken (more info below). Great point about the LID not being All Life Stages, I hadn’t considered that.

——————————————–
General updates:

We are on day 5 of the LID food, and he is getting 2.5 cups of that per day, as well as 1.5lbs potato, and .5lbs chicken (more info below). Maybe this week, I’ll start incorporating some of the Nature’s Domain into it and seeing if his poop continues to be ok. One thing to me that seems strange about his poop is that in the morning and early afternoon, he has great solid poop. Towards the end of the day, the poop gets much softer (though never to the point that I’d call diarrhea). I’m not totally sure what to attribute this to. Maybe he processes food more quickly during the day and it doesn’t get fully processed by the time he poops it out? Also, (sorry if this is TMI) when his poop starts coming out, it’s quite solid, but towards the end of the poo, it is much more soft. Also, he is pooping very frequently still, about 5-6 times per day. It’s not like he urgently needs to go, but we take him on lots of walks, and he always takes advantage of being outside to poop.

On a different note, we’ve run into another problem. Before, his food used to be out all day, but now that it’s perishable because I’m cooking it, he gets specific feeding times and amounts. He’s become a bit possessive of his food, which he’s never been before :-/ He allows us to touch and move his bowl without a problem, but he starts growling if we pet him while he’s eating, especially if we touch his paws or tummy. I am trying to combat this by doing some handfeeding so he understands the food comes from us, as well as holding his bowl while he eats and stroking him, even if he growls. I have zero fears about him actually biting, but I welcome more feedback on whether I’m addressing this correctly, and what else I should be doing to combat this behavior. He doesn’t do this with anything else…not bones, not his favorite toys, etc.

[LuAnn T]

I nominate Northwest Naturals frozen raw complete diet 5 lb roll dog food in chicken and turkey varieties. You have a review of this dog food on your site with a 5 star enthusiastically recommended note. I have fed it for over a year and my dogs are much improved in health and agility because of the change. Even their teeth don’t have the plaque build up. My Aussie is 13 and had bad hips but now runs like a 2 year old, and a German Shepherd which is a breed with hip concerns and she is active at 8 years of age and excellent health.

Thanks for the reviews!
LuAnn T

[Susan]

Hi Atlas,
I would feed the Natural Balance Fish & Potato for 4-6 months to let his Gi tract settle & heal or start him on the the brand that is cheaper, the Kirklands Natures Domain Turkey Sweet Potato formula this way you have some of the Natural Balance Fish & Potato formula to introduce with the kibble & just feed that kibble for 4-6months then once he seems stable rotate between a few different brands with a different protein source… & make sure they do not have Chickpeas & Lentils..

He’s probably growing it’s called “growth spurt” it happens between 8-12months old, google Growth Spurts in dogs….
You could give him a meaty raw bone, no cooked bones, this way he chewing & keeping busy & he’s eating something & you could feed him 3 smaller meals a day instead of just 2 larger kibble meals a day, that will keep him feeling fuller.
I follow “Rodney Habib” on his face Book page watch his videos, his vidoe’s are quick & to teh point & really good, he recommends blueberries, apple, healthy whole foods added as a topped to kibble fed dogs I give the toppers as a treat instead, if your dog likes cooked food instead then feed him cooked meals & try & feed less kibble he’ll be healthier….

The only problem I have with fish kibble they are higher in toxins & contamintes.
Have a look at Clean Label Project 2nd test study on kibbles, wet foods & treats, alot of the expensive brands some of their formula’s came back very high in Toxins & Acrylamides & BPA & BPS… Kirkland had a few formula’s, so did TOTW & I think Nature Balance had a few brands high in toxins, you’ll have to look thru & see which formula’s only got 1-2 stars
here’s the link below click on it, read thru then scroll back up & look to your left & click on “Dry Dog Foods” you’ll see all the 5 star foods then go to pages 11 thru to 16 is teh start to all the bad 1 star brands & the formula’s that tested very high in toxins. Just stay away from these formula’s if you can…..
The last 2 Summers I’ve been rotatating Patches kibbles to a fish kibble cause he has skin allergies in Spring & Summmer months & fish formula’s are higher in Omega 3, my vet & I couldn’t work out why poor Patch was doing really well thru the Winter months then after I started feeding him new fish formula’s that didnt have any ingredients he is sensitive too “Wellness” Complete Health, White Fish & Sweet Potato, he got sloppy poos & was unwell, so I put him back on his TOTW Roasted Lamb formula he was good again then I introduuced & tried “Earthborn Holistic” Ocean Fusion after 1-2 months later he became ill again, same with “Holistic Select” Salmon it took 3 months he became sick & wouldnt touch his food if ever your dog wont eat a kibble dont make him, take the food back, I keep all my recipts, then I tried the TOTW Pacific Stream Salmon formula which is the Kirkland Nutures Domain Salmon & Sweet Potato formula, he kept vomiting up the TOTW Salmon, then last April CLP released their first ever pet food testing & I was shocked there were 3 of the foods I feed Patch in the top 10 worse pet kibbles all these formula’s tested very high in toxins, now CLP has just relesed their 2nd test 1 week ago join & get their emails click on link below also on your left click on “Brand Report Cards”
Some people say CLP is this & that, all they want is money, yes they need donation to test pet & baby foods that’s how we get it for free.
My dog & other people dogs have been very sick after eating these 4 & 5 star brands that DFA gives & they have tested very high in toxins, when you go & look at these brands up in the DFA “Reviews” section, read all people’s post, my dog is sick, my dog died, my dog has diarrhea, I know some dogs may have health problems but there’s some foods like TOTW’s High Prairie formula where a heap of dogs became very sick all of a sudden after eating the TOTW High Prairie & Pacific Stream formula’s these formula’s both tested very high in toxins in CLP 2nd testing…
I’d rather be safe then sorry & when you have a dog with a sensitive stomach & bowel these’s are the dogs that become very sick first, Purina rated good with some of their formula’s but some of Purina’s formula’s didnt rate good at all, like Purina’s Pro Plan Sensitive Stomach formula it rated 3rd worse formula with the higest amount of Toxins.. there’s more information on different pet foods on Clean Label Project F/B page…
Im staying away from fish pet foods, I buy human tin salmon in spring water give that as a small meal with sweet potato for Patch
http://www.cleanlabelproject.org/pet-food-study-2-0/

[Jaclyn B]

Hi DogFoodAdvisor,

Clean Label Project is a national non-profit with the mission to bring truth and transparency to consumer product labeling. We do this by using data and science to reveal true product quality and purity and empower consumer to make their own choices. Through the resulting shifting economics, we aim to serve as the catalyst to change the definition of food and consumer product safety in America.

Given the humanization of pet food over the past several years coupled with the scandals and recalls, we were especially interested in what was truly behind all these “Feed them like Family”, “Natural”, “Human-grade”, etc. claims. For us, it was about seeing past the comfort and security that pet food brands marketing departments sell, and get right to the data and science about the true ingredient quality. This impartiality only comes through testing. When we began this pet food study, we assumed that these companies were regularly screening for environmental toxins alongside more conventional foodborne contaminants (like salmonella). Our results clearly indicate otherwise. We believe consumers have a right to know what’s in the products they buy.

When we initially started this project, we utilized Nielson reports to pull the products that made up 90% of the overall retail sales of pet foods. From there, we visited specialty pet food stores and spoke with consumers and team members to ask what people were buying. Our approach to the sampling was simple and why Clean Label Project is unique is clear- we simulate the consumer shopping experience. We went to grocery stores, pet food stores, and online retailers and purchased products just like any consumer would. We tested over 1000 of America’s best-selling dry and wet dog foods, cat foods, and treats for over 130 environmental and industrial contaminants and toxins like heavy metals, pesticide residues, antibiotic residues, plasticizers, melamine, acrylamide, and mycotoxins. We amassed over 130,000 data points, benchmarked them, and put the findings on our website in the form of a 5-star rating system. The products that we personally purchased and tested are literally the exact same products that are in pantries across America. For us, we don’t trust label claims, we trust analytical chemistry because gas chromatography and Inductively coupled plasma mass spectrometry doesn’t lie.

We agree that sampling error is a risk in any scientific study, and you have correctly pointed out that random sampling of sufficient size is essential to minimizing the risk of sampling error leading to a false positive or false negative result (so-called “Type I” and “Type II” errors). However, there are two important distinctions here that we would like to stress as to why we chose the sampling strategy that we did.

First, at the product level – while you make a valid point that sampling repeatedly from different batches for an individual product would result in a more accurate representation of the “true” contaminant level of a single product this, in our opinion, misses important quality and supplier assurance implications of our results. If these companies, as many of them have repeatedly assured us, are conducting rigorous supplier assurance and quality assurance programs, single “fluke” high values should be exceedingly rare. While sample variability does occur, a robust quality program should severely limit the variability (and the levels of these contaminants). This is particularly important given that there is no maximum tolerance level for these contaminants in the pet food space. As a side note, the argument that “the product is only loaded with known carcinogens occasionally” doesn’t reassure us very much. Consider the analogy of food borne pathogens like salmonella, e.coli, or listeria – certainly there is variability as to how much of these bacteria are present in raw ingredients, but rigorous quality assurance programs or kill steps bring the variability in finished products to almost zero. This is why the presence of these bacteria cause headlines when they occur in finished foods – we have systems in place that should prevent them. This is not the case for the contaminants we measure in the pet food space—but it should be. All brands, regardless of their score, should be vigilant regarding these contaminants and should take proactive steps to improve the status of the industry.

Second, at the brand level: It is important to note that decisions about a brand (for example, the brand report cards released September 18, 2017) are not based off single product ratings, instead they are based on the average performance of multiple products within a brand. When data is aggregated across a group, the “true” value being estimated is that of the brand, not the product. As such, when we give the “thumbs up” or “thumbs down” to a brand, this is based on the weight of evidence from multiple products. This means that our brand ratings, and the conclusions we draw about the performance of brands, are arguably the least likely to be impacted by sampling error.

For us at Clean Label Project, we refer to ourselves as the environmental and industrial contaminant and toxin people. That’s who we are, the mission we hold, and the conversation we are looking to have with consumers. To us, so often we hear about food safety issues happening at burrito restaurants and cruise ships (e.coli, listeria, salmonella, etc.), but what people don’t talk about is the long term adverse health effects associated with chronic exposure to industrial and environmental toxins and contaminants with links to diseases like cancer- for ALL living things. To us, first, it’s do no harm, start with high quality – not harmful ingredients – and then dive into how to formulate the most nutritious foods. This should not be a novel concept.

To us at Clean Label Project, there is no such thing as healthy poison. You can read more information about our position here. http://www.cleanlabelproject.org/white-paper/

[aimee]

Haleycookie.. count my dogs among the unfortunate. We are all shaped by experience. When I was a teen I saw a dog choke to death on a bone…. horrible imprinted memory. A friend used to feed raw, stopped after the dog had peritonitis from intestinal bone perforation. Events like these may be “extreme circumstances” to use your words but I have to say they did not, to use your words “make me laugh”. When you experience it first hand it becomes very personal.

People should be informed of the risks of bone chewing and then decide if they are at peace with those risks. I’m not comfortable with those risks and others are. We can each respect each others decisions.

[anonymous]

Below is an excerpt from http://animaldentalspecialist.com/safe-and-appropriate-chew-toys-for-dogs/
Click on link for full article. Hope this helps.

Fractured pet teeth are one of the more common dental problems encountered by veterinary dentists. Broken teeth, more often than not, have exposed pulp tissues that subsequently become infected.  Just like for humans, apical infection (apical periodontitis, dental “abscesses”) will occur in a matter of time. They are painful and cause exposure of the body to chronic bacteria infusion and inflammation. In most cases, the problem is caused by dogs being allowed to chew on objects that are just too hard for their teeth. These objects may actually be harder than the teeth.  It is important to remember the evolutionary function of carnivores…they are meat eaters. The function of carnivore oral behavior is to grasp, pull and hold prey. This is followed by cutting and tearing meat before crushing and gulping. Carnivore teeth are not designed to chew bones or other objects harder than the teeth.  Starving wild animals often have only bones to eat, however, they also break their teeth, which places them at a survival disadvantage (survival of the fittest). Wild carnivores that do eat bones are usually doing so from freshly killed prey.  Fresh bones are softer, however, they still can lead to traumatized and fracture teeth. Dental treats and chew objects should be considered as only part of preventative dental health care (please refer to information on dental diets, chews and antiseptics).  In conjunction with daily tooth brushing, dental diets and regular professional cleanings, toys and treats can play an important part of oral health care maintenance.
Strictly avoid bones (cooked or uncooked), cow hoofs, pig ears, hard & thick rawhides, plastic or nylon bones, and large ice cubes. Tennis balls and other objects with abrasive surfaces should also be avoided as these have a sandpaper-like effect on tooth structure that damages and may expose the pulp. The flatter, softer rawhide chews have been shown to be safe and effective in reducing the rate of plaque accumulation. C.E.T. Hextra rawhide chews contain Chlorhexidine which enhances their effectiveness.
When trying to select safe chew objects for your pet, there are two good approaches:
General rules of thumb.
Use products approved by the Veterinary Oral Health Council (VOHC)
A. Rules of Thumb
You want to be able to indent the surface with your finger nail.  Surface has some “give” to it.
“Knee Cap Rule”: If you hit your self in the knee with the object and it hurts, it’s probably too hard/heavy for your dog.
“Hammer Rule”: If you can drive a nail with the product, don’t allow your dog to chew on it.
Also avoid objects with abrasive surfaces like Tennis Balls and Frisbees.
If you cannot flex or break the product with your bare hands, it’s probably best to avoid it.
Please take note: you should always monitor your pet when they are chewing on anything.  Verify they’re not gagging, trying to ingest too much at one time or attempting to eat an inedible product.
B. VOHC approved products
Although not all safe products have VOHC approval, using products with the VOHC seal of acceptance is recommended as these products have successfully met pre-set requirements for veterinary dental efficacy and safety.  A complete list of VOHC approved products can be accessed at http://www.vohc.org.

[Susan]

Hi,
why not gve fresh raw meaty bones? they are fresh un cooked bone so no shattering or bone that has been cooked etc, In Australia we have raw or slow air dried Kangaroo tendons, they’re healthy & good to chew…. find a company that makes really good high quality slow air dried bones if you don’t want to feed fresh meaty bones & if there’s any 2 day old bones laying around the yard pick them up & throw them out, if you have local butcher they normally sell cheap off cut meaty bones & know the best part of the carcass to give dogs to chew & keep a pup busy that wont splinter etc, a butcher told me the best bone to give a dog is the elbow section of the Lamb, I don’t know if this is correct or he just likes that bit of bone for his dogs??, ask your local butcher or join a few Raw feeding F/B groups they normally know which meaty bone is best to give, just do not feed any of those rawhide chews made to look like bones…

[haleycookie]

All of those things are such extreme circumstances they make me laugh. Do you know all the things I’ve seen dogs chew on and eat that haven’t hurt them that are far less digestible than a bone? When a responsible dog owner watches their dog and only allows certain amounts of time with a raw bone theyre will rarely be any negative corcumstances. I know way to many dogs that eats raw bones of all kinds of animals on a daily basis that are included in raw diets. Bones are necessary in raw diets especially. Dogs digestive tract, teeth, stomach, and esophagus are still that of a wolf. Wolves eat small bones whole, break them with their teeth, and shatter them to pieces and eat them. I’m not concerned with leaving my dog or any dog UNDER SUPERVISION with a raw bone. And neither should anyone else.

[haleycookie]

RAW bones such as the frozen primal bones sold at petvalus are safe but there are always risks with anything. Just always make sure with ANYTHING you give your dog you are watching them while they chew on it. I often get ppl that ask me “what is something I can leave with my dog to chew on?” The answer is nothing. Don’t leave your dog to chew on anything alone. Which you did not do and I’d imagine you’re smart enough to know that. Great that you taught your dog drop it too. I also wouldn’t recommend a rotted bleached bone off of a mystery carcass. Go to a petvalu if you have one near and pick up one of the raw primal bones or I believe they can be ordered online. I have used those with several different dog sitting dogs and they all love them. Don’t be scared of bones, I find they are a great way to clean the teeth of tartar. I also toss raw bones within 24 hrs of opening. And if I ever purchase those filled bones or meaty bones from petco I toss those once the dog has pulled out the center filling or pulled off all the meaty bits from the bone.

[Coonhound Mama]

Oh no, I absolutely would not do that again. Aside from the fact that that bone has been sitting there long enough to harbor some very serious bacteria, a sun bleached bone is not edible. Sun has the same effect on bones that cooking them does- it breaks them down into dry and flaky shards that could potentially cause cuts in the GI tract. Stick to fresh, raw rib bones only.

[Kathy B]

I found this post while researching food to help my dogs’ fur healthy. I feed my pets raw. One of the more difficult aspects of raw is making sure your pet gets enough keratin in their diet. Believe it or not the best source is hair and feathers. What you really need to be asking Acana is what percentage of their food has hair/feathers. When our dogs on the farm ate gophers or mice they also ingested the hair. Keratin is a form of protein that is both needed and digestible. I know it sounds disgusting to us as humans, but in the right proportions is both safe and healthy.

[pugmomsandy]

If you look through the 5 star foods, there should be other low carb options. For instance, Wysong Epigen, Solid Gold Barking at the Moon, Earthborn Holistic Great Plains Feast, Wellness Core (some recipes), Nature’s Variety Instinct (some recipes), Stella and Chewy’s Raw Blend (dry food), Farmina N&D Grain Free, Weruva Caloric Harmony.

Kibble is a bakery product and needs starch to keep its shape. Canned foods can be lower in carbs since they don’t require a starchy binder and they’re probably not as expensive as raw foods.

[Mike Sagman]

Batch analysis ratings posted by CleanLabelProject.org and other similar websites can certainly be helpful.

However, we recommend readers exercise a reasonable degree of caution when relying exclusively on these kinds of reports.

That’s because when testing any pet (or human) food, the results can differ from day to day and vary significantly based on the specific farm or batch used as a source for any individual ingredient.

As with any laboratory study, it is absolutely critical to take a statistically significant (large) number of test samples from multiple batches to avoid a potentially misleading variable known as sampling error. You can read about that important subject here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sampling_error

In addition, guidelines used for interpreting the results can also be changed or manipulated. This can cause certain products to be move from one rating to another. And even from “best” to “worst” lists. This has apparently already been a problem. You can read about that issue here:

Here’s Why The Clean Label Project’s Best and Worst Pet Food Results Changed

Giving any one brand a sweeping endorsement (or rejection) based on the sampling of one single batch taken from one individual product line at one point in time could be misleading and provide a false sense of security (or concern) regarding positive test results.

Even with fresh human foods (like strawberries or beef), there can be significant differences associated with test results from one batch of raw materials to the next, many times related to the soil conditions of one plot of land versus another from the same region.

What’s more, conclusions drawn from single batch testing can produce important inconsistencies. For example, on the website you reference, when you use the search box for specific brands (like Nutro, Orijen, Purina, and others), you’ll find 5-star, 3-star and 1-star individual recipes (products).

Try doing the same thing for other brands (like Nature’s Variety or Canidae) and in many cases, you’ll get similar results.

It would seem to us that the fairest way to draw accurate conclusions regarding food testing would be to collect test samples from multiple batches from different lots and collected over an extended period of time.

Otherwise, we could unfairly judge the safety of one food and give a misleading thumbs up for another.

Bottom line?

We commend CLP for its efforts. And we look forward to learning more about how its findings compare with those of others… especially to test results verified by independent third parties, peer-reviewed studies and those of the companies themselves.

Yet we’re also concerned about CLP’s lack of complete transparency and its failure to share actual test results with the public on its website.

In any case, until each batch is tested by every company with results posted on every label…

And since there’s no way of knowing which “top-rated” recipes could unexpectedly contain hidden contaminants and become the low-rated brands of tomorrow…

We continue to urge pet owners to practice the commonsense risk reduction strategies associated with the menu diversification and diet rotation methods favored by this website.

Until CLP becomes more transparent with its test data and its controversial claims have been verified by an independent third party or by the U.S. Food and Drug Administration, we ask readers to refrain from posting any further references to this organization or its opinions anywhere on this website.

• This reply was modified 8 years, 6 months ago by Mike Sagman.
• This reply was modified 8 years, 6 months ago by Mike Sagman. Reason: "Bottom line" section added to conclusion of comment

[Lori J]

I just bought a bag a the Zignature Lamb to try out but still not happy w peas in there. Would Something like Orijen, Acana or Wellness core be better? I wouldnt mind making home cooked meals for my 2 if it is easy. I dont think I can do raw.

[Jeremy H]

I currently feed Orijen, which is low carb but also gives my dogs loose stools. I have been mixing it about 50/50 with Zignature which has helped firm things up. The only “low” carb kibble that I have noticed after scouring the reviews is Orijen. Am I missing something? Is the only other low carb option raw?

[Kathy B]

What a horrible experience for you. We adopted a rescue in January and although her stools weren’t as loose as what you are describing they were pretty bad and every time she went! A member on here mentioned NutriSource dog food (dry) and we switched her a couple of months ago… end of problem. We believe it was just because of a sensitive stomach…. we are cautious about what we give her as treats, absolutely no rawhides….. I know you don’t want to keep switching foods because that is rough on them as well but it’s my only suggestion/experience. I assume you already tried cottage cheese/rice mixture and/or boiled chicken? Hope he gets feeling better!

[Norma R]

Myths about Supplements to your dogs food, including Calcium. Good info:

1. “A multivitamin added to the food will cover any gaps.”

The question here is this: Which multi, and with which diet? Any unsupplemented home-prepared diet will be low in some nutrients and adequate or high in others. But because there is no standard formulation for human multivitamins and they can vary greatly in what they include, just tossing one in the dish is not the answer.

Choosing an all-purpose multi made specifically for dogs doesn’t necessarily solve the problem either. These usually contain very low levels of nutrients because it’s assumed they will be added to commercial food, and so are unlikely to provide enough supplementation to round out a homemade diet. This is why “balanced” is not just a buzzword; it’s a valid and essential aspect of proper nutrition. Once you understand your dog’s nutritional needs, work out what her diet actually contains and then add what’s missing.

2. “I’m adding yogurt to my dog’s food daily so she’s getting enough calcium.”

Dogs require fairly high levels of calcium, and yogurt absolutely won’t cut it. Here’s a quick example: My own 75-pound dog has a daily requirement of 1,840 mgs of calcium, and since I use quite a bit of fiber in his diet in the form of brown rice, I want to offset any absorption issues and ensure that he gets about 2,000 mgs per day, or 14,000 mgs per week. His weekly diet alone—turkey, liver, sardines, brown rice, ground lamb and acorn squash—only provides 1,750 mgs. That means I need to add over 12,000 mgs of calcium; in other words, more than 40 cups of plain yogurt.

Calcium supplementation is always necessary unless you are feeding raw bones. I recommend using a commercial carbonate or citrate form of calcium, or an eggshell crushed into a fine powder—one teaspoon of this powder (about 5.5 grams) equals roughly 2,200 mgs of calcium carbonate. To use eggshells, rinse them well and then bake for about 10 minutes at 300 degrees; use a small grinder to make the powder. Bone meal can be used if there is also a need to add phosphorus, but many homemade diets supply plenty of this mineral.

[InkedMarie]

Hi Rosemary,
I raised my last dog on raw (ground from Hare Today) from his first meal home. He just turned two. He was back on kibble for about 3 month and I was surprised that he didn’t do very well. My husband says he’s a happier dog on raw. I was shocked he noticed that. I did but didnt say anything.

[Rosemary G]

What about raw food? Is is safe to feed an eight month-old, 20b puppy?

[Susan]

Hi Croeber,
I think it is really important to rotate between diiferent brands & feed a diffferent meat protein source & different ingredients, a rotational diet allows a beter chance of providing a more complete & balanced diet, while most dog food sold has been balanced to meet nutritional guidelines there’s always a chance that one brand might be a little deficient in a nutrient compared to another brand, by rotating a variety of foods your pet is less likely to suffer any deficiencies & rotating helps strengthen the dogs immune system & may reduce the risk off allergies or sypmtoms developing later on as teh y age this is very important for young animals…
You know your girl does well on Merrick so now look for another brand with a different protein source & different ingrdients but stay around the same protein % & fat % it doesnt have to be exactly the same fat & protein 1-3% higher or lower… some people rotate with the same brand that’s not a good idea, say that brand has toxins or high contaminates in their fish formula then the other formulas may also have the fish meal or whatever is in that brands meats etc so best to look for another brand it doesn’t have to be real expessive to be really good, look at “Clean Label Project” pet food testings some of the very expensive brands had the highest toxins & Purina got 4-5 stars ause of the lean meats tehy buy, Turkey & Chicken are suppose to be very clean meats….

I can’t be too fussy with what I feed my boy, I have to feed him what agrees with him, he was a rescue I rescued at age 4, he suffers with IBD, Skin Allergies & food intolerances, vets & his nutritionist said he probably was feed the same cheap Aldis dog food & when he was reacting with diarrhea & vomiting the owner didn’t bother changing his food or the owner changed & feed another poor quality brand that had the ingredients he was sensitive too & was reacting too, he is a prime example of a dog feed a very poor diet & was never introduced to a lot of different foods…probably why he ended up at the pound cause of his IBD, when I got him he was pooing blood & weeing blood, vet said the weeing blood would have been from being used for breeding..
I’m feed “Taste Of The Wild” Sierra Mountain, Roasted Lamb grain free with Lamb meal, sweet potato, potato, peas, egg, tomatoes, blueberries, raspberries, formula, TOTW Roasted Lamb is Patches go to kibble that he does the best on so far…
I’ve just finished introducing Hills Science Diet, Sensitive Skin formula it’s a grain formula with rice, corn, pork meal & egg formula, I’m trying this in my rotation cause it has Pork Meal & Hills gave me a free voucher-$140, my IBD boy does really well on his cooked Pork rissoles & Sweet potato, so when I saw Hills had a Pork meal formula I had to try it & see how he does on it & he’s doing really wll he gets bad acid reflux so its very hard finding foods that agrees with his stomach & he doesn’t grind his teeth & doesn’t swollow & swollow & lick his lips, I was rotating & feed “Canidae” Pure Wild Boar & I tried the Pure Meadow Senior, “Canidae has some really good grain free & grain kibbles….
I have to give treats instead of adding foods to his kibble, he gets 1-2 freeze dried, “K-9 Natural” Green Lipped Mussels, the mussel shell is high in Glucosamine & Chondroitin for his joints & bones.
“Love Em” Mini Cookies Chicken Liver & Cranberry with DHA for immune support biscuits an Australian Brand, I’ve just started these, he was getting peeled apple pieces, he gets his Yakult probiotic drink, he gets about 1/4 of the Yakult probiotic drink in between feeds when his stomach acids are low so they dont kill the live bacteria in te probiotic & I drink the rest of te Yakult drink, he gets his yogurt ice cream only about 1 teaspoon after his dinner & if I’m running late or on the computer he tells me about his ice cream yogurt he whinges & barks at me till I get it out of the freezer. I can’t remember what else he gets at teh moment, I’ve had him 5 yrs this November & he has tried heaps & different brand kibbles & foods the Australian kibble brands are really good but some are way to high in protein & fat for him, no vet diets have worked for Patch, TOTW has been the best dry kibble so far that covers all his health problems, I’ve strengthen his gut (immune system) heaps since I got him 5 yrs ago he was always very sick before, but now he has a beautiful shinny coat, he is very healthy runs, jumps acts like a puppy doesnt seem to have any arthritis yet, (fingers X) he’ll be 9 years old on the 20th Novemeber & it’s the same day I rescued him 5 years ago his “Got You Day” he was being Put To Sleep on his birthday..

Steve Brown was asked if you had to pick 1 food to add to your dogs diet to make it healthier what would you add & Steve said, “Mussels” you can buy them in the freezer section or buy freeze dried mussels, Mussels are very healthy they have Manganese, Iodine, Fats, Vitamin D he said alot of raw diets are short of Manganese, Iodine fats & Vitamin D so add about 1-2 mussels a day + 1 tablespoon salmon & a pinch of Kelp to your dogs diet….

Follow “Rodney Habib” on his face Book page, you’ll learn heaps about adding really good healthy fresh whole foods to your dogs diet…
Sounds like your doing a pretty good job already….

[pugmomsandy]

Stella and Chewy’s Raw Coated Kibble Whitefish Recipe

[C L]

Hi Norma, its best to use organic eggs. Also, in my raw group, they feel there is no clear research to say how much of that calcium is absorbed when feeding ground eggshells. Here is something interesting to read about including the membrane. http://ottawavalleydogwhisperer.blogspot.com/2013/11/natural-eggshell-membrane-nem.html

[pugmomsandy]

Castor and Pollux Utramix Grain Free Red Meat Recipe with Raw Bites, Castor and Pollux Ultramix Grain Free Poultry Free Salmon Recipe. Whole Earth Farms Grain Free Pork, Beef & Lamb (Poultry Free). Some recipes from the following brands: Earthborn Holistic Venture, Earthborn Holistic Grain Free, Earthborn Holistic, Nutrience Subzero, Nutrience Grain Free, Nature’s Variety Instinct Limited Ingedient, Canidae Grain Free Pure, Canidae Under the Sun Grain Free Whitefish.

[Rich W]

Ive been feeding my 7 yr. old Bernese Mtn. dog this Tefco food for about 2 months.
My dog loves it, she also has more vitality at 7 than any other Berner Ive ever seen, and she lost 20 lbs (from 120 to 100)
My vet approves and says the dog looks great and is in good health.
Also, its the most economical raw beef dog food Ive seen.
5 stars from me and Bindi (dog)
Highly recommended!!!

[pugmomsandy]

“Real Food for Healthy Dogs and Cats” by Beth Taylor and Dr. Becker has raw recipes and the book has a vitamin recipe to go with them along with nutrient analysis. I can only speak for the 3rd and 4th editions which I have.

[Keri M]

I am looking for Balanced Raw Recipes for small dogs that can be prepared and frozen and taken out as needed. I am looking for not just the ingredients, but the measurements as well? All foods need to be purchased from a grocery store (shipping is difficult…we live on an island in Alaska). Ideas please?

Thank you,
Keri

[Ellen H]

Here’s my problem. We have been using the Castor and Pollux Organix Brown Rice and Chicken recipe for quite a few years. We have three large dogs and the bag was 25 pounds so we were buying a bag about every 10 days, getting costly but the dogs do well on it, and Amazon Prime had a good price. Now they have not only changed all the formulas but they have also raised the price AND made the bag even smaller at 18 pounds and now we can’t afford it anymore.

I have had dogs die way too young; my first GSD only made to 8 before he got cancer in his heart; our second one died in his sleep of some kind of aneurysm at 3-1/2! After that I started trying to clean up their food because I started cleaning up the human food. We are now organic or Non-GMO in our house and I need a clean food that will suit my needs for organic or non-gmo and that we can afford to feed our dogs.

The three dogs are a German Shepherd dog who will be 6 at the end of this month, a GSD/boxer mix dog who will be 7 in January, and a young dog that showed up at our gate last year and we think he’s probably 2 now, looks like a mastiff mix maybe. I’m really scared to change foods but I’m also scared my husband will go bankrupt if I keep with Castor and Pollux, the making the bag smaller was just the last straw.

[Therese M]

Thanks she’s much better. Gained 7 lbs! Vet is very happy, says 3-5 more and we’ll be good.

She won’t touch the dry if there’s any liquid with it. Go figure. We had been sprinkling dehydrated raw on it and that’s when she started eating dry but then I tried liquid and she didn’t touch it. She drinks a lot so I figure it’s fine. Yesterday she ate the dry straight so that was super exciting! She still gets at least one can a day, mainly bc we still have some. Not sure if we’ll keep that up or not.

The Bison NutriSource looks similar to High Prairie but I’m not sure we have that brand around. I’ll look for it though. I think I’ll try the Zignature lamb since High Prairie has a lot of lamb in it. We had tried a couple kinds of Fromms and she wasn’t a fan but since I have the coupon I figured it might be worth another try. Worst case we’ll just donate it. I just can’t figure this dog out at all, except that she seems to hate fish, which is the biggest bag of food we have, so of course she does.

[sue102dal]

Try
CNYRawFedDogs
Go to
http://www.dogaware.com/ diet/rawgroups.html

[J K]

My dog is also about 45 lbs. Can you tell me if this is accurate: half a can of raw, wild-caught salmon, maybe 1/3 of a can of green beans (chopped/mushed/blended), boiled ground beef or organ meat (how much and what animal?). I’ll skip the berries for now, but might include the egg.

I am using MiconaHex+Triz Shampoo for Dogs & Cats based on vet recommendation and reviews. Do you have a different recommendation? I saw that Tea Tree Oil shampoos might be good.

Thank you for your super quick reply! I wasn’t sure if I was going to get a response but seriously finding this thread is a lifesaver.

[InkedMarie]

I have used Zymox for my dog that used to have recurrent ear infections. For my dog, feeding him a raw diet without produce worked for him. He’s had, I think, two infections in five years, always during humid weather.

[anonymous]

Food aggression in dogs
Dogs with food aggression may stiffen their body, show teeth, growl, snap, or bite when they are approached by a person or another animal when they are in possession of or near a food-related item such as a rawhide chew, bone, pig’s ear, food bowl, sandwich wrapper, or food that was dropped on the floor.
Reference: centerforshelterdogs.com/home/dogbehavior/problemsandmanagement/f…

Here is another article https://www.aspca.org/pet-care/dog-care/common-dog-behavior-issues/food-guarding excerpt below
Guarding possessions from humans or other animals is normal behavior for dogs. Wild animals who successfully protect their valuable resources—such as food, mates and living areas—are more likely to survive in the wild than those who don’t. However, we find the tendency to guard valued items undesirable in our domestic pets, especially when the behavior is directed toward people.
Resource guarding in dogs can range from relatively benign behavior, like running away with a coveted item or growling at an approaching person, to full-blown aggression, such as biting or chasing a person away. Some dogs only direct resource guarding toward certain people, often strangers. Other dogs guard their resources from all people. Dogs vary in what they consider valuable. Some dogs only guard chew bones or toys. Some guard stolen items, such as food wrappers from the trash can or socks. Many dogs guard food.

[pitlove]

Regarding the cuts of meat, I’ve noticed more so with commercial raw diets that some are excessively high in fat. Either the protein and fat are the same value or in a couple cases I’ve seen the fat exceed the protein. What that says to me is fattier cuts of meat may be being used to cut cost.

Regarding amino acid profile. The digestibility of the diet will tell you if the amino acids are being metabolized correctly. Larger companies, Purina included record data on digestibility during feeding trials and can often tell you the overall digestibility on each ingredient. For example Hills reports their corn as being 99% digestible overall.

[pitlove]

I read your post and think back to when I felt just like you did. I felt I was doing such great research by reading forums like this, blogs, etc which were mostly just opinions. It wasn’t until I began reading clinical study papers, research papers and literature written by actual boarded veterinary nutritionists that I began to feel I could make appropriate decisions for my pets about their food. I’m far less stressed about it now.

Yes grain free is very trendy, so is raw. The idea that one product is superior to another product because it is “free” of the ingredients the other product contains is a great marketing tool. Why do you think Blue Buffalo is so successful? A negative connotation begins to become associated with all of the ingredients that the “free of everything” foods do not include…because they must be bad. Right? So now, we have a population of well meaning folks trained to believe that corn, wheat, soy, potatos, by-products, gluten, etc is bad and even dangerous for dogs without any real science to back it up. And this is echoed throughout the internet and as well all know, they can’t put it on the internet if it’s not true!!

Visit petdiets.com and go to their “Ask the Nutritionist” section and read through some of the questions and answers and heck feel free to ask your own questions. The site is run by Dr. Rebecca Remillard, ACVN boarded veterinary nutritionst and her staff of nutritionists. These are the people who you want to be getting your information from.

[Nadine H]

Very true pitlove, hadn’t thought of that. Trying to research has created more confusion . My vet knows how obsessive I’ve been about finding the perfect kibble. He told me to go with a company that does the research etc. So many small companies are popping up and they usually don’t have the funds to do feeding trials etc. Then you look at the big companies and some regard them as totally evil and feeding the food they produce is the worst possible thing you can do. Then the no grain got popular and I really feel there is a lot of hype regarding grain free, They have to include starch to form the kibble and many include pea fiber. Then look at the raw feeders, how many know exactly what nutrients are needed and are they feeding a balanced diet? Used to be so easy and then I started reading, 🙂

[a c]

I feel the same way. The more I read the more I don’t know if I am feeding them the right food. Too much conflicting information out there.

I was gong to try Fromm, but I decided not to because all the bad reviews out there. I already trying to get them off Orijen due to the bad report from the Clean Project report.

In the end, they all are process food even the raw diet. Is one really better than the other?

[InkedMarie]

Jessica: are you feeding ground? If yes, look at Hare Today, Raw Feeding Miami, My pet Carnivore & Reel Raw. All have grinds that are meat/bone/organ and some have tripe. You just weigh it and feed.

[Jessica F]

I’ve been feeding my dog raw food for a couple of months now. I started by giving him raw meat from Highland packers in Stoney Creek, this is where big country raw get their meat from as I was told. he loves the raw food, however i find he doesn’t like added veggies or fruits, so instead I switched to another brand called HealthyPaws. I was told by one of the knowledgeable workers at Global pets that there is a lot of moisture in that food and not as good quality meat. I since changed to one called NaturePaws, apparently this is more organic and better quality… my dog doesn’t seem to enjoy it as much. I do add Glucosamine and salmon oil to his meals.

I’m at a confusion point as what type of raw food to feed him.. Can anyone give me good info on some raw dinner, i prefer to buy the meals prepared.

[Dianne P]

I would like to Nominate Darwin’s Natural selections raw