[El]

Hi Ana A

“Fresh” to me is whole foods either fed raw or lightly cooked. The 2 below are complete diets for Adult Dogs, and because they DON’T contain bone they can be lightly cooked.

/dog-food-reviews/freshpet-vital-raw-patties/
/dog-food-reviews/freshpet-vital-raw-rolled/

For transitioning from Kibble or canned to raw, I would lightly cook the raw to eliminate some of the possible bacteria, and to slowly accustom your dog’s digestive system to the new diet. I would also transition very slowly. Start with 10% of lightly cooked raw and go up by 10% every third day. Repeat when transitioning from lightly cooked to fully raw. It’s slow, but it’s worth it. A high potency multi-strain probiotic along with a prebiotic will help in these transitions.

Once you are feeding fully raw for a couple of months with no problems, you can start looking at ALL raw foods, including those with bones. The transition periods from one raw food to another can usually be done in a couple of days, and some are able to switch raw foods with no transition at all.

If you would like to learn more about raw feeding along with recipes for preparing food at home, I recommend this book;

Good Luck, and feel free to ask away 😉

[Bobby dog]

Hi Huskypup:
I agree with Pitlove and C4D, finding another store might be a good idea.

Out of all the ACVN/PhD nutritionist sites I visit I only remember one that will formulate a raw diet, Dr. Susan Lauten of Pet Nutrition Consulting; there are probably others. However, I don’t find that service listed on her site any longer. Under partial list of services offered they do list they will analyze your current raw diet. Maybe try contacting them to see if they will formulate a raw diet.
http://petnutritionconsulting.com/

It looks like Dr. Lauten has been consulting for Fresh Choice Complete raw food company over the last year. Looks like a fairly new company:
http://www.freshchoicecomplete.com/index.html

You can find nutritionists at most Vet schools and here is the ACVN diplomat directory. For some reason the link won’t post so I am editing the address:
http://www dot acvn dot org/directory/

Just Food For Dogs makes fresh meals delivered to your house and they also have kits for making fresh food:
http://justfoodfordogs.com/

Check out Weruva Human Style (not Kobe/Kurobuta) and Tiki Dog canned foods. They both have pictures on their sites of their recipes. They look just like shredded chicken or fish you would eat.
http://www.tikipets.com/tiki-dog/
http://www.weruva.com/dog-cuisine-human-style.php

[C4D]

Hi September D,

I’ve owned a lot of dogs over the years. I’ve never fed a senior dog food to them. Senior dog food is really just a marketing ploy. My large breed dogs live well over their expiration date. The most important thing is to watch that they don’t gain too much weight, get exercise on a daily basis, and address any health issues they might have as they age or due to injuries they have sustained. I also get yearly checkups and do blood panels on a regular basis. That let’s you know if there are any issues that might need addressing. My vet once said to walk my dogs for as long as they could walk. I’ve always done that. I’m not saying this is a miracle cure, but dogs need exercise and they need a job. That’s their job and they love it. I have a senior right now, 11 yo Lab along with other older adult dogs, but if you didn’t know her age, you wouldn’t think she was that old. She has bad knees too, but she walks briskly almost 2 miles daily and runs the yard after everything she sees. She does get supplements (fish oil, joint care) and I am very careful about her diet to keep her lean. I also feed her a combination of kibble, canned and fresh/raw food daily. So, I’ll get off my soap box now. Best of luck with your pup!

[Jim G]

I am really trying to like Life’s Abundance dog food but have a problem. My 4 month old lab has been on it since I picked her up from the breeder. Her stools have always been loose, and at times, she has a hard time holding it in. I switched started giving her cooked chicken and rice. Stools were perfect and no accidents. I slowly reintroduced Life’s Abundance and the loose, mucusy stools started again. I have heard that a raw diet could be the way to go, but I am on a budget. Has anyone’s dog had loose stools with Life’s Abundance and if so, were you able to find a quality dry food that worked.

I’m not knocking Life’s Abundance. I’m sure it is great for some dogs, just not mine.

Thank you.

[DogFoodie]

Hi Lauren,

I think I’d take a look at doing a true elimination diet if I were you.

Since you’ve been working with your vet on identifying your pup’s food sensitivities, you could talk to them about it and get your instructions from them. Essentially, you choose a single protein and a single starch that your dog hasn’t eaten before and feed only that. After you’re dog’s condition has settled down, you slowly introduce other ingredients, one at a time. If he reacts, you withdraw the food and continue with your single starch and protein. If not done properly, you’ll end up with inaccurate results. If done properly, it’s the gold standard for identifying food sensitivities / allergies.

Some folks will use raw or cooked foods, prepared at home. Others will choose prescription foods from the vet. Either way, it’s not forever, but it’ll help you get some answers.

With my food sensitive dog, I have better luck with Nature’s Variety Instinct Limited Ingredient Diets.

Good luck! I know how frustrating it can be!

[losul]

Interesting theory on the palatibilty enhancers, Dr Carol.

I don’t think this is the one that Aimee referenced, but here is a survey/study that could give insight.

http://www.associationofanimalbehaviorprofessionals.com/boze412010.pdf

At least 50% of my dogs diet is homemade raw, with limited (35%) kibble, but I have had no experience with coprophagia so couldn’t help there.

I found in the the following article in Can Vet, that seems to be relative to what you have asked.

“The dog should be fed a consistent, good quality
diet, high in fat and protein and low in carbohydrate,
with no treats or scraps. Diets high in carbohydrate
tend to enhance the drive to eat stool. The dry food
component of the diet should be reduced and replaced
with a high protein food. Although dry food is generally
a good diet, it has been shown clinically that the
above diet change will often lessen the drive to eat
stool. The addition of vegetable oil (increased slowly
over 7 days, to 15 mL/4.5 kg of body weight/day) is
also helpful. Sufficient food should be given twice
daily, on a regular schedule. Adding the fat and feeding
twice a day helps suppress the appetite for a longer
period, reducing this particular stimulus for stool
eating. Often, a diet change, maintained for 4-8 weeks,
may be all that is required to stop the behavior, in conjunction
with the decreasing strength of the drive as
the animal ages.”

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1680886/pdf/canvetj00575-0079.pdf

[Susan]

Hi Greg, my boy was diagnosed with IBD thru biopsies 2013, I contacted a Naturopath thru email first to see if she knew anything about IBD & she did, so I booked a consultation over phone she rings you or does Skype for overseas….
Here’s her link her “Maintenance Diet” http://www.naturalanimalsolutions.com.au/natural-diet.html
I told her everything about Patches health, she said it sounds like Patches Pancreas isn’t doing its job & working properly & we need to fix Patches gut……
Jacqueline put Patch on the home made raw “Maintenance Diet” she would not let me buy any of those premade raw diets she said, she has seen them being made & they are not good for dogs especially if they have any health problems especially IBD…..
I had to pick 2 proteins, I picked Kangaroo mince & Chicken breast, 2-4 veggies, I picked, broccoli, celery, carrot & 1-2 fruits I pick apple, all veggies & fruit must be washed & peeled then cut & put thru a blender, for breakfast I feed 1 cup protein kangaroo & add 1-2 spoons of the blended veggie/fruit mix also had to add Digestive Enzymes 1/2 capsule & live probiotic 1/2 capsule per meal…..she told me freeze the veggie/fruit mix in 2 spoon sections & freeze the meats separate in 1 cup sections, it was so easy to do, then when Patch was doing firm stools & was OK which was the next day, I was surprised he did the firmest poo I’ve ever seen, Jacqueline promised me he would, she said the Digestive enzymes & probiotic will firm stools & they did, then I could start to add the DigestaVite Plus Powder 1/4 teaspoon then increase after 1 week.
You need to add supplements & ingredients slowely 1 at a time over 5 days cause if something goes wrong you will not know what is causing the problem……. Less is best in the beginning 🙂 also she told me No bone, some IBD dogs don’t do well eating bone……
I now cook this diet minus any meaty bones & add potato, zucchini….

Sounds like your dog Pancreas isn’t working properly either, not digesting her food properly, I would start with cooking first & see how she does, its fresh & you know what you have cooked, I freeze 2 weeks worth of meals….
have you heard of “Balance It” http://secure.balanceit.com/….Balance It gives you recipes to suit your dogs health problems takes about 20 sec then gives you all recipes, shows you how many calories, how much fat, protein fiber is in that meal & you can contact a their Vet Nutritionist….
Have you tried a digestive enzyme?? instead of increasing the steroid…..also have you tried Metronidazole (flagyl) for 2 weeks, the Metronidazole often fixes things up & kills the bad bacteria these dogs have problems with, Patch has a few scripts of the Metronidazole in the cupboard & I put him on it for 2 weeks as soon as I start to see his poos going yellow & sloppy & smelling bad….Good Luck

[Shawna]

I’ve read research discussing illnesses associated with palatants (specifically MSG and free glutamic acid) but I’ve never heard of them associated with copraphagia. Additionally, several of the supplements given for copraphagia have MSG or a form of free glutamic acid in them. Although they don’t work for all dogs, they do seem to work for some. I’m not sure what other palatants are used in pet foods?

Although I never had copraphagia, 🙂 I did have pica for about 15 or so years. I didn’t have digestive issues of any kind but turns out I had villous atrophy from a caseine sensitivity (I react to both cow and goat dairy products, raw or pasteurized, organic makes no difference either). My blood work was normal however my iron was on the very low side of normal. I also developed slight hypothyroid symptoms but test showed no issues. Anyhoo, I was finally diagnosed at age 39 by a wonderful M.D. who is also a Certified Clinical Nutritionist. She put me on an elimination diet. The only ingredients that jump out at me in Barking at the Moon would be the lectin proteins in the pea protein and the potato. I’ve not seen either of those lectin foods associated with villous atrophy but so much about lectins is still not yet known…?? Treats might be a potential source?

I currently feed commercial raw but used to feed home prepared (my time is limited now). Three of my dogs used to make a game out of eating bunny poo. That completely stopped when I started giving digestive enzymes. I never felt they were necessary in raw fed dogs but those three showed me differently. An adult foster dog came in eating poo. She was also a little over 20 pounds overweight. We got the weight off but no matter what we’ve tried she is a poop eater. She’s been an ideal weight (12 pounds) for several years now (we adopted her) but she still to this day has a snack given the opportunity. She won’t eat all poo though, so I’m assuming my senior dogs are not thoroughly digesting the proteins despite the added enzymes.

I don’t know if any of this is relevant to your pup but thought I’d put it out there.

[gina w]

Hi Shawna,
I have been reading the posts and my dog recently had an acute renal injury which caused her to go into renal failure. She started vomiting and had diarrhea and became lethargic. When we took her to the vet we found she had pancreatitis and renal failure. We thought the pancreatitis came from an obstruction so during surgery there was no obstruction but an abscess on her pancreas with a necrotic area that was removed. It has been touch and go for the last month. We did all the post surgical care at home as I am a nurse and my daughter a vet tech. It seems one week kidney improve and next week worsen. She has been getting IV fluids since the initial assault on the kidneys. This past week we have seen improvement and will get more blood work done on Monday. The uremic smell has decrease and her hemoglobin and hematocrit has slightly improved. Creatinine is 5.0 BUN >130 Phos 11 these are all down except for the BUN which is up from 110. We are getting ready to finish week 5 since the surgery and she has returned to her bossy self. Faith is a 5 1/2 year old border collie. I just purchased all the items you recommended Standard Process, Garden of Life Primal Defense and sprinkle fiber. How much of the sprinkle would you give a 40 lb dog and the primal defense. We are going to keep her on IV until Monday Feb 8th when we get her new labs. Then we will continue with Sub Q fluid boluses until we have all labs normal. Her diet has improved and we are doing a raw diet with green tripe and adding plenty of water. Thank you in advance for giving me your dosage amounts. She is also on Aluminum hydroxide three times daily.
Gina

• This reply was modified 10 years, 2 months ago by gina w.

[C4D]

Hi Alex Woodward, I mean Ed W.

So you’ve made your way on to the forum side. It seems really inappropriate to tear down people on this site, particularly the regulars. I’ve seen many of their posts and I see them regularly suggest, to people that are asking for suggestions, food that is compatible with their price point. I do the same. They generally preface it with the fact that these foods have worked for them and that it might or might not work for their dog(s).

You said: “The vast majority of problems are dreamed up by pet owners in order to try the next latest and greatest product, or just overfeeding or excessive treats. Yes, this is in fact true.” Could you please provide links to back this comment up?

There are many people who have genuine issues with their dogs, myself included in the past, that would like a bit of advice, particularly when whatever they are doing is not working. I wouldn’t consider it an obsession when someone’s dog has ear or skin infections, vomitting, diarrhea, etc. and are going back to the vet several times for the same problem and they start on a merry go round of antibiotics, steroids, etc. In many cases, a change in diet worked wonders and completely cleared the dog(s) issues.

I have many personal friends that work and have worked in the dog world, including myself. They have trained, showed in AKC agility, conformation and field trials. They have finished dogs, dogs with Regional and National Championships. They feed a variety of food, including some who feed raw. None, that I know, are feeding proplan.

If you want to talk about expensive dog food, Royal Canin, which you suggest, is probably the most expensive dog food on the market, making Orijen, which is an expensive dog food, seem cheap by comparison.

• This reply was modified 10 years, 2 months ago by C4D.

[Laura S]

I use Sojos Pre-mix for my Frenchies. I prefer to cook the protein and I feed my male wild caught salmon and my female grass fed lamb. My female is a super picky eater and won’t eat raw. I don’t agree with the recommended amount of protein to pre-mix in the directions on the bag so I add additional protein. I also bought a box of the grain free Honest Kitchen base mix, but I am hesitant to feed because it has peas and since I have switched to Sojos, that has no peas, my male has stopped licking his paws. I also have contacted Primal Pet foods to inquire if they were ever planning on putting out a base or pre-mix because I like that the majority of the fruits and veggies are organic, but unfortunately the answer was no and they don’t make a fish based formula. Both of my dogs have bad allergies and are on medication but I am always experimenting with diet in hopes that it may help them be less itchy. We have managed to steer away from ear infections once I eliminated potatos from their diet too.

[InkedMarie]

Ed,
No one claimed to be an expert. Most of us are just pet owners doing the best for our dogs. I can say the bulk of us don’t feed any of the foods you mentioned. I can say, for me, they are not good enough for my dogs. I know what ingredients/nutritional analysis/companies make a good food. You’re free to disagree.
Regarding breeders, handlers, trainers….one of my dogs breeders fed Eukanuba when he was a puppy, 10yrs ago. I have no idea what she feeds now, she isn’t a breeder. Another breeder of my dogs sent me home with either Canidae or California Natural. Been five years so I am not positive. We just got a puppy in November. Between my breeder & her partner, there are alot of dogs in the home. They feed 4Health grainfree.
I don’t know any “professional anything” who feeds the foods you mentioned, except for some vets. The vets I’ve had in the last 10yrs feed Science Diet, Purina & RC. I disagree with what Anony,ously said aout a food the vet approves of. I personally don’t care what my vet thinks about what I feed which is raw only to two & my brittany eats a mix of raw and kibble (currently going from Annamaet Aqualuk to Open Farm turkey; Dr Tim’s RPM is next).
If you don’t agree with what is posted her or on the review side, feel free to find another place to read & post. If you choose to stay here, be aware that you won’t be changing the minds of us “experts”.

[Susan]

Hi Jazz Lover, here’s Maintenance Raw-Diet, I went thru a Naturopath Jacqueline Rudan cause Patch has IBD & Skin problems, I had to pick 2 proteins from this raw diet, 2-4 veggies & 1-2 fruits…. if you scroll down to bottom you will see other health diets there’s a ‘Skin Allergy” diet…
This diet is so easy, I would freeze the meat separate in 1 cup sections, I was blending broccoli, celery, carrot, beans & 1 apple then freezing in 2 spoon sections….. I had to add 1-2 spoons veggie/fruit mix to 1 cup protein, I picked Kangaroo mince & organic chicken breast, breakfast I feed kangaroo & dinner I feed the chicken…..I also added the DigestaVite Plus powder & the Omega 3,6, & 9 oil… add a couple small sardines if you can’t get the omega 3, 6 & 9 oil…
http://www.naturalanimalsolutions.com.au/natural-diet.html

[Susan]

Hi Bobby D, Yes a dog can take up to 6 weeks to show any signs of a food sensitivity…. My Patch was doing really well on the Wellness Whitefish & Sweet Potato (Read ingredients hardly any sweet potato full of barley) after 5 weeks he started scratching, hive like lumps under skin & sloppy yellow smelly poo’s, so I emailed Wellness Well Pet & the lady said yes it can take any where from 1 day to 6 weeks to show any signs of a food intolerance…

A few people have been complaining about Taste Of the Wild their dogs have dry skin & are real itchy, if you look at the Omega 3, it is lower in some flavours & higher in other flavours…..
Change brand of kibble with higher omega 3….. start adding a couple of small sardines in spring water (69c at Aldi) to 1 meal a day or give as a treat…..I have found just feeding a Fish & Rice kibble with no other ingredients my boy does the best on…I also feed a cook meal for dinner so only 1 meal is kibble… if you can feed freeze dried or raw is the best if your dog can handle a raw diet…

[Greg F]

We have an 8 y/o Havanese with IBD for the past 5 years. Throughout this time she has been on low dose predizone to keep her albumen numbers in the normal range. We were keeping her on a low fat HK Zeal with success until reasently when hears numbers dropped, lost weight and started passing her food through without much digestion. We started transitioning her to GL Valor fish with higher fat and calories to gain weight and she started having more stool volume and less digestion. The vet had us increase the predizone to settle the inflammation.
We went out looking for a new food and are considering Primal Venison raw complete food, however have some concerns with her IBD and sensitive bowel.
Has anyone had success with a diet and able to virtually eliminate drugs?

[Nora L]

Hi Ken,
Sorry to hear about your dog’s problems. I do think it is related to the food. The legs and thighs you’re getting are likely very high in fat. It is fat in the raw diet that causes so many problems for raw fed dogs. This also causes bile vomiting because bile is overproduced in dogs who over-consume fat. So that’s a clue that you’ve been feeding too much fat. You did the correct thing to fast your dog during the bout of diarrhea but there is no reason to feed any inappropriate foods like rice, cooked chicken or commercial dog food. A second day of fasting would allow the digestive tract to heal, and after that you need to find lower fat cuts of meat to feed, such as game hens with all visible fat removed, quail, buffalo, beef, pork and turkey. If your dog has problems eating meat that does not have bone (this causes loose stools in some dogs), supplement each of his meals with a cut that has bone, such as part of a game hen. A game hen leg (for example) along with 4-6 ounces of lean pork or beef would be a great meal for your dog. The advice you got third hand is correct, this condition does usually clear itself up when the proper changes are made to the diet.

[Nora L]

I cared for a Siberian Husky who had a long standing case of epilepsy. Her seizures never went away completely but were greatly decreased when her owners started feeding her a home-made, low-fat, raw meat/bones diet.

• This reply was modified 10 years, 2 months ago by Nora L.

[Nora L]

Pancreatitis is associated with high fat consumption. All commercial foods have too much fat, and most don’t even disclose actual percentages on the labels. If a dog of mine had this problem, especially if s/he was as small as yours (and therefore cheap to feed), I’d opt to feed the best foods possible, raw, uncombined and in proper quantities. People are brainwashed to believe that disease just happens out of nowhere. This is not only not the case, it is possible to avoid disease and, in most cases, even reverse it by recognizing and removing the causes. My own dog died (naturally and at home) at age 19 and had not visited a vet for a symptom in the last 11 years of his life. My sister’s dog almost died from Pancreatitis 6 years ago and she switched him to a rotational mono-diet and he has not been to the vet since, for any reason. I’d be happy to share the details if you are interested.

[Nora L]

Sorry to hear that. My parents’ dog was recently diagnosed with cancer as well. I advised them to switch him to a raw diet and he is making progress — more energy, some weight loss and the tumor is shrinking. It has to be done properly though, and commercial raw blends should not be used (they are too complex and high in fat). When you have a problem like cancer, particularly when it’s located in a part of the body whose function it is to eliminate the waste products of digestion, you have to look at what you’ve been feeding. Vets don’t get the connection between food and disease although yours alluded to the problem when s/he mentioned “residues”. What s/he’s recommending however is a food that produces only slightly less waste than the normal commercial foods. The kinds of foods a dog with cancer needs are the kind that produce no more than the canine body has historically had to deal with — the minimal kinds that are produced from a very lean, clean diet of herbivorous animals, fed raw and uncombined with other foods. Dogs sometimes recover from cancer with very small dietary improvements, but since you don’t know all the factors that will determine his/her ability to heal, you want to err on the side of feeding as close to perfectly as you can. I worked up a protocol for my folks and I’d be happy to share it with you if you’d like.

[Pittiemama]

I posted this is the Health issues and Nutrition portion. Maybe this would have been a better place. I don’t know so…

I have a 5 year old rescue Am. Staff. who sadly has early kidney failure. I’m seeing a holistic vet in a couple of weeks for guidance on so many things with him. He also has a lot of food intolerances. I was wondering what you all know about home cooking. I hear a lot about raw but I’m wondering about cooking. Right now I feed Honest Kitchen Brave. It’s great and he loves it but if his phosphorous starts to rise I’ll need to rethink his diet a little or I may start earlier just to be sure he’s getting everything right. I’m definitely in the planning stage right now. Also I add in a little kibble to decrease the cost some, Honest Kitchen is spendy and would be about $250-300/month on it’s own (my guy is 74#) and to decrease the phosphorous I found a kibble that’s balanced but has a lower phosphorous due to their formulation. I’m not at all restricting as he’s not at that point yet but I figured if I find something that’s a little lower and still balanced, that’s probably best right now. Because of his allergies I feed him fish diets, which is the only protein I’ve found so far that works well and the one that doesn’t give him pink skin and ear infections, so unless I figure out another protein that he can tolerate, fish it is. Also he’s allergic to some grains (I think corn…ick, wheat…no thanks and not sure about rice) and I don’t want to feed him grain, just my preference. I’m mostly wanting meat, veggies, fruit and supplements.
Here’s my question:
Have any of you cooked meals with fish? Most of the diets I see are chicken, turkey, beef etc. What fish did you use? I mostly see pollock, mackerel, sardines etc. What have you used? I’m thinking of using a base like Honest Kitchen Preference or Dr. Harvey’s Veg-to-Bowl and adding cooked fish. Again, I’m not married to that idea but because balance is so difficult and I want to be sure he is getting the right nutrition. Balance is key! It is with everything but he’s a complicated dude, hence the trip to the holistic vet. I’m sure she can help but so many of you have knowledge and experience that I figured it would help me narrow down some ideas and research points.
Thanks a bunch!

[Nora L]

The increase in the growths may have to do with the fat content of the food you’re feeding. Although cooking presents problems of its own, it melts fat and allows it to be removed from the meat before feeding. When you’re feeding raw you have to be more careful about buying cuts of meat that have fat that can be cut away. The problem with fat is that this is where the animal’s body stored the waste that was produced by the bad diet it was fed while it was living. That’s why you see so much fat on domestic chickens and cows — it’s good for the producers because the cheaper foods create it and the animal is heavier when it is killed. So they make money on both ends. It is a disaster for the animals who end up eating them, however. I guarantee it is not the fruit that is causing the problem, except perhaps that it is mixed with other foods and will not be properly digested. Fruit is a natural food for dogs and when it is eaten alone it is easily digested. However, dogs would never in their biological history have had occasion to mix it with other foods. Fruit is regarded by dogs to be a contingent food, to be eaten when prey is not available. I would be interested to know how your dog did after her diagnosis and change of diet, as I am working with someone now whose dog was just diagnosed.

• This reply was modified 10 years, 2 months ago by Nora L.
• This reply was modified 10 years, 2 months ago by Nora L.

[Pittiemama]

I have a 5 year old rescue Am. Staff. who sadly has early kidney failure. I’m seeing a holistic vet in a couple of weeks for guidance on so many things with him. He also has a lot of food intolerances. I was wondering what you all know about home cooking. I hear a lot about raw but I’m wondering about cooking. Right now I feed Honest Kitchen Brave. It’s great and he loves it but if his phosphorous starts to rise I’ll need to rethink his diet a little or I may start earlier just to be sure he’s getting everything right. I’m definitely in the planning stage right now. Also I add in a little kibble to decrease the cost some, Honest Kitchen is spendy and would be about $250-300/month on it’s own (my guy is 74#) and to decrease the phosphorous I found a kibble that’s balanced but has a lower phosphorous due to their formulation. I’m not at all restricting as he’s not at that point yet but I figured if I find something that’s a little lower and still balanced, that’s probably best right now. Because of his allergies I feed him fish diets, which is the only protein I’ve found so far that works well and the one that doesn’t give him pink skin and ear infections, so unless I figure out another protein that he can tolerate, fish it is. Also he’s allergic to some grains (I think corn…ick, wheat…no thanks and not sure about rice) and I don’t want to feed him grain, just my preference. I’m mostly wanting meat, veggies, fruit and supplements.

Here’s my question:
Have any of you cooked meals with fish? Most of the diets I see are chicken, turkey, beef etc. What fish did you use? I mostly see pollock, mackerel, sardines etc. What have you used? I’m thinking of using a base like Honest Kitchen Preference or Dr. Harvey’s Veg-to-Bowl and adding cooked fish. Again, I’m not married to that idea but because balance is so difficult and I want to be sure he is getting the right nutrition. Balance is key! It is with everything but he’s a complicated dude, hence the trip to the holistic vet. I’m sure she can help but so many of you have knowledge and experience that I figured it would help me narrow down some ideas and research points.

Thanks a bunch!

[Frank K]

The Wellness Core Puppy formula is well-rated, as is the Adult version. I particularly appreciate the consistency of their product, the ease of use, and the overall health of my pups. To the best of my knowledge, there have never been any issues with the company or the food either. I spend $114 buying 2 26 pounds every 6 weeks for my 2 American Pit Bull pups who are now 11 months old and weigh 118 and 85 pounds (1 male, 1 female). When I initially received my dogs, they did experience 3-4 days of soft stool when starting the Wellness Core Puppy, but I am not entirely certain whether it was related to the food or the stress associated with moving. I do not routinely supplement with anything else, although they do occasionally receive some tasty meat and vegetable leftovers! While I am certain there are many excellent brands available, consistency IS a huge consideration. You must also objectively assess just how much time and effort you can regularly offer in purchasing and preparing the food. For dogs with digestive sensitivity, even minute alterations in diet can provoke distressful symptoms, which makes consistency ever MORE vital. For this reason, I would probably NOT use raw foods with your dog. Commercially available meat can vary enormously in quality for a multitude of reasons–FDA inspected and all. If you raise your own meat and absolutely know that it has been correctly handled start to finish, it may be a different story! We actually DO raise and butcher our own meats but I still stick with the dry food because I know that I cannot always spend the time prepping for the dogs–no matter now good my intentions may be! Be wary, also, of advice you receive on the internet from self-professed experts. (Mine included!) In the majority of cases, the individuals giving it are not sufficiently educated on the most current scientific research available and are basing their comments on anecdotal experiences and personal bias. And while there is certainly nothing wrong with experience, it is usually specific to that individual situation and may or may not have relevance to you. In the end, you want a cost effective, efficient, consistent, healthy, and uncomplicated diet for your dog without the hassle and expense of experimenting with a million different magic formulas. Finding a veterinarian who specializes in gastroenterology/nutrition through any of the veterinary colleges may actually save you money in the long run and would guarantee your dog the benefit of the most up to date information, as well as a individualized treatment approach. I wish you all the best in finding whatever works for your pet and many joyful years together!

[A K]

I have a 10 month old female lab about 60 pounds. She has had some significant issues with loose stools in the past. I tried a few dry kibbles and she kept having loose stools until I added Prebiotics and Probiotics to each meal. Right now, she is on Flint River Ranch – Lamb Meal, Millet, and Rice. If I don’t add a capsule of MicroFlora Plus (Prebiotics, Probiotics, Enzymes, and Herbs) to each meal, she’ll start having loose stools within a few days. I’ve been considering improving the quality of her food so I wanted to get some input on what type of food i should look into. I’m looking for the right balance of cost, convenience, and quality.

I’m afraid a homemade raw diet would be too time consuming, unless it was something easy such as Volhard Dog Nutrition – Natural Diet Food 2 (NDF2) which appears to be very easy and quick (just add protein to the premixed nutrients). The concern with NDF2 is that it would be too costly. It’s $75 for 10 pounds (good for about a month of meals from what I can tell) and I’m not sure how much the fresh protein I would need to purchase would cost.

There are also frozen premade raw diet options available. I assume this option would be very convenient, but I’m not sure how good they are or how much they would cost.

I’ve also heard of some people just adding some fresh raw proteins (ground beef for example) to their current dry kibble.

I’m also open to just a better quality dry kibble as well.

Out of the above options, which would you suggest for a good balance of quality, convenience, and cost? I’d like to stay under $75 a month, but could go up to $100 if necessary.

Thanks so much for any help!!!

• This topic was modified 10 years, 2 months ago by A K.

[Susan]

She’s a very smart dog & knows kibble is crap…… She probably was brought up on a raw diet or a cooked diet, have you ever tried feeding any raw?…. I wish my boy could eat raw diet, its fresh, its easy & raw diet is what dogs & cats naturally eat, not processed foods…

[El]

Hi Pittiemama, welcome to DFA!

I’m very sorry to hear about your pups kidney issues 🙁

I believe in exploring all options when it comes to the health of my furry family members. I research everything and then I research some more. I think that peer reviewed articles are very important because they are written by experts and reviewed by experts in whatever field the article or study comes from.

A good place to search for canine kidney disease, or any medical issue you would like to research is “Google Scholar” and “Pubmed”.

Anecdotal evidence can often be confusing. For instance, Shawna’s baby lived over 8 years on a holistic, raw diet with plenty of alternative treatments.

And a friend of mine adopted an 8 week old lab who was diagnosed with kidney disease at 12 weeks old. She lived to be 9 years old on a low protein, prescription diet from the vet.

I tried to talk him into feeding a less processed homemade or commercial diet that used fresh minimally processed whole foods but he stuck with his vet’s food. I can only imagine how long she would have lived on a fresh food, minimally processed diet designed for kidney patients.

I did talk him into using freeze-dried kidney products and I suspect they helped. Seeing a holistic vet is something I would definitely look into. The more you know, the better you will be able to make an informed decision regarding the care of your pup.

Naturopathy is a very controversial form of “medicine” and I hope you do your due diligence before going down that path. Make up your own mind based on your own research.

Below are a few very critical quotes and links about Naturopathy and the original online, no attendance required, schools of natural healing. I wish you and your baby a long and healthy life 😉

“The Biggest Quack School in Natural Medicine Closes”
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/dr-andrew-lange/the-biggest-quack-school_b_641931.html

“Diploma Mill PoliceSM Clayton College of Natural Health (AL) Distance Learning Accreditation Report”
http://www.geteducated.com/diploma-mill-police/degree-mills-list/clayton-college-of-natural-health-accreditation

“Clayton College of Natural Health: Be Wary of the School and Its Graduates”
http://www.quackwatch.org/04ConsumerEducation/Nonrecorg/clayton.html

“A Close Look at Naturopathy”
http://www.quackwatch.com/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/Naturopathy/naturopathy.html

“Colorado, naturopathy, and “health freedom”: Devolving into a quack wonderland?”
http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2013/06/11/colorado-naturopathy-and-health-freedom-devolving-into-a-quack-wonderland/

“Britt Deegan Hermes, a former naturopathic doctor and Bastyr grad, has a new blog: Naturopathic Diaries. It is a must-read! Britt reveals the pseudoscience and lack of clinical training behind naturopathic education.”
http://www.no-naturopaths.org/

[aimee]

Hi Pitlove,

I feed some Primal but I do lightly cook it as it is not HPP except for the poultry product. Last time I checked as I recall they consult with a PhD nutritionist… not a veterinary nutritionist.

They haven’t feed trialed the diets and i don’t know if the nutritional information they post is based off of lab analysis or computer paper analysis.

As far as raw food companies goes I think it is one of the relatively better ones…but I do cook the food and only use it as a topper and not as a complete diet.

[aimee]

Hi Kelly,

You can find veterinary nutritionists through their website acvn dot org. But most won’t do raw diets and even fewer a raw diet for a puppy. If you want to go that route I’d suggest trying Dr Bartges

The reason most won’t, I think, is two fold.. one the pathogen exposure and two the availability of nutrients contained in raw meaty bones isn’t quantified. Providing calcium at just the right range for a large breed pup becomes an unknown if calcium absorption from these sources isn’t known.

Some time ago I read an article on a pup that had severe calcium depletion on a home made raw diet yet there was plenty of bone in the gut.. In other words the calcium from the bone that was being fed wasn’t being absorbed.

So I wonder if a vet nutritionist who would formulate for a pup would skip the bone and use a Ca source whose availability is known.

The commercial raw foods you mention may be all life stage formula’s meaning they meet the criteria for puppies and then by default for adults.

The only company I know of that made a raw that went through feeding trials and is HPP and consults with a vet nutritionist is Natures Variety. The current formula haven’t been through feeding trials but carry a feeding trial statement by way of AAFCO’s family rule.

Like pitlove, I too have seen horrible results from a raw food diet on the growth of a puppy. The owner was an experienced raw food feeder for her past adult dogs and this was the first pup she raised on raw. The dog was anemic, small for its breed and had to have orthopedic surgery at a young age. So sad….After having seen this first hand it is why I’m uneasy with your plan.

[Shawna]

Hi Pittiemama,

Hopefully I can help you here. My puppy had kidney disease right from birth. It is believed her kidneys just weren’t able to develop (she was the sixth puppy, the runt, for a 12 pound Chihuahua / Boston Terrier mix). The breeder had to had feed her, due to a collapsing trachea, raw goats milk and egg whites to keep her alive. She had symptoms (excessive drinking and urine) at just six weeks of age. She was officially diagnosed at one year and given a year to live. She lived to eight years and seven months old and then passed for reasons not directly related to kd.

A little background on me, my father is a naturopath. I did consult with him when I got Audrey’s diagnosis but being raised by him, I was able to mostly formulate the plan of attack myself.

Audrey’s numbers, when she was diagnosed, were right around the same as your babies — and she lived almost seven more very very healthy and happy years. It could happen for your baby too.

The first thing I would suggest is to keep up on his dental health. You won’t want to use anesthesia for dental cleanings so RIGHT now start doing anything and everything you need to keep his teeth clean. It was actually bacteria likely from a dental infection that got into Audrey’s kidneys and ultimately took her life. Use fresh garlic in his meals. Use an enzyme supplement in his water, Dr. Melissa Shelton’s essential oil called Dog Breath is very effective and a drop can be added to his water dish or you can mix with water in a spray bottle and spray right on teeth. http://www.animaleo.info/dog-breath.html I would also recommend a product made by Green Pasture’s called Infused Coconut Oil. It’s high in vitamin K2 (which has been shown to have great benefit for teeth) and has other wonderful nutrients. All of my dogs get it but I found it when Audrey’s teeth were already needing some extra support. 🙁 http://www.greenpasture.org/public/Products/InfusedCoconutOil/index.cfm

I HIGHLY recommend Standard Process Canine Renal Support. It is a food based supplement that “feeds” the kidneys but also has a product called a protomorphogen (which is the RNA/DNA of the kidney cell) that helps prevent inflammation to the kidneys. It is the one supplement she never went without. I also used their SP Canine Hepatic Support when I thought she needed a little liver support — helps with allergies too. I also used their Cataplex B and C as water soluble vitamins may need to be added due to the large amounts being urinated out.

ONLY give filtered or other forms of “clean” water. I would avoid tap water at all cost. Lower sodium mineral waters with good amounts of calcium and magnesium have been shown to be beneficial for dogs with kd. I like Evian water because it is high in calcium bicarbonate. I didn’t give it all the time but made sure (at least in the beginning) to give it regularly — I got lax in the later years and I truly believe Audrey would still be with me if I had not. She was doing so well though and my life got busier..

I HIGHLY recommend getting some Garden of Life Primal Defense probiotic and Garden of Life Acacia Fiber supplements as well. These are used as “nitrogen traps” and as BUN begins to build up the bacteria consuming the fiber will cause some of the nitrogen to be routed through the bowels freeing up the kidneys from having to deal with them. I gave probiotic foods (like green tripe, fermented veggies etc) frequently but when I noticed she was feeling a little lethargic, depressed, not feeling well etc I assumed nitrogen was building up and I’d give her the probiotics and prebiotic for several days. Always worked like a charm. Will be quite important as the disease progresses and he starts getting symptoms. This also allows for a higher protein diet. The protein doesn’t damage the kidneys but it does, due to BUN, add to symptoms. Oh, I forgot to mention. Audrey ate a HIGH protein raw diet up until the last six to eight weeks of her life. Audrey never had a problem with phosphorus but as your puppies disease progresses you may have to watch the amount of phosphorus in the foods you are feeding. The golden rule is to limit phosphorus but it’s obviously not always necessary. That said, phosphorus can damage the kidneys if it gets too high in the blood so either monitor it or feed the right amounts of phos for the stage your pup is at. Right now while phosphorus isn’t as big an issue, I like the Honest Kitchen Brave. To that I would add a raw egg a few times per week and give Answer’s raw goat milk regularly as well. Both raw eggs (if not whipped etc) and raw milk can easily increase the “master antioxidant” in the body called glutathione. This will obviously help out everything. Later, when phos needs to be more restricted, you may not be able to give the whole egg (as the yolk is higher in phos).

Supplements —
1. Organic Turmeric is good as it is anti-inflammatory but it also is anti-fibrotic (prevents scar tissue). Audrey didn’t tolerate turmeric well so she didn’t get it but in general it would be quite helpful for a dog with KD.
2. Spirulina, chlorella and pumpkin seed oil are all high in chlorophyll and supplies lots of other nutrients. Dogs with KD can be at risk for anemia and chlorophyll is awesome for anemia.
3. Burdock root is a prebiotic and of the herb world is considered to be the “blood cleaner”.
4. Milk thistle helps spare glutathione and is a good detoxer.
5. Distilled water (given once in a while) and food grade activated charcoal are good detoxers too.
6. Copaiba essential oil is great for pains and inflammation plus more. A therapeutic grade, like Dr. Sheltons, is the only kind to use on pets. Can be given in food or rubbed into the skin over the kidneys as an example.
7. Braggs brand apple cider vinegar can help with indigestion or tummy issues. Audrey didn’t need it often but when she did I would mix it 50/50 with water and syringe feed it. She hated it but within seconds would burp and feel better.
8. Therapeutic grade peppermint oil, ginger extract or Dr. Shelton’s GI Joe essential oil work great for tummy issues as well. I got sick to my tummy and used the GI Joe to help. Kept me from vomiting and soothed my tummy.
9. Learn about essential oils if you don’t already know. If you have a Facebook account, join AnimalEO’s page and sign up for Dr. Shelton’s Friday Fun Facts. I didn’t know about them early enough to be much use with Audrey (specifically Dr. Shelton’s oils) but I sure wish I had.

DON’T do ANY more vaccinations – not even rabies if you can at all avoid. Audrey was legally exempted from having to get the rabies vaccine for life. She wasn’t protected either as she only got her first shot (at six months) before diagnosis was made. No heartworm, flea/tick or anything like that either.

I know there’s things I’m forgetting but hopefully this is enough to give you a good jumping off point.. 🙂 Hugs to you and your baby boy!!!!

• This reply was modified 10 years, 2 months ago by Shawna.

[Pitlove]

Hi Kelly- “Puppies need more calcium than an adult dog” Right here is where I need to stop you. Your puppy will be considered a giant breed and while you have been researching a homemade raw diet, you haven’t factored in that you have a dog that will be large. Large and giant breeds do not need more calcium, they need very very controlled levels. The ratio of calcium to phosphorus needs to fall between a 1.1:1 and a 1.5:1 ratio. Anything higher can increase the risk that they grow too quickly and develop devastating orthopedic disorders. I’ve seen the horrible effects of a large breed puppy (specifically a Great Dane) fed a raw diet that was poorly balanced.

I’m sorry, but I have to agree with Aimee on this. I’m not against feeding raw, but for a large or giant breed, optimal growth is the first and foremost important thing. I would absolutely choose a commercial food that can confirm by emailing you their as fed or MAX levels of calcium and phosphorus, that it is safe for your giant breed puppy.

• This reply was modified 10 years, 2 months ago by Pitlove.
• This reply was modified 10 years, 2 months ago by Pitlove.

[El]

Hi Kelly P

I would recommend these 2 books as part of your research into feeding a properly balanced raw diet to your pup.

“Ok I have not yet gotten my puppy I have about 4 weeks still. She will grow up to be around 100lbs, so I’ll probably feed her about 2lbs a day.”

Here are the feeding guidelines from Primal, I think they are pretty accurate. Puppies need more than 2% of their body weight daily.

Feeding Percentages
1.5% Weight Loss
2.0% Non-Active
2.5% Maintain Weight **
3.0% Slight Weight Gain
3.5% Significant Weight Gain
4.0% Kittens/Puppies (8 weeks-1 year)
4.5-8.0% Kittens/Puppies (4-8 weeks)
4.0-8.0% Pregnant/Lactating

“We will be training too with treats so I need to be sure they level each other out. I have done a lot of research as I’ve been preparing for the past 1-2 years. What I found so far is the following.
Feeding anti-oxidants or some sort of cooked veggies is a good idea.”

I would puree the veggies. Cauliflower, broccoli, spinach in moderation, green beans, peas in moderation…

“Feeding organic eggs, shell and all, is good at least once a week. Egg shells provide a lot of calcium.”

I would suggest free-range organic eggs. I know that people feed finely ground egg shells as a calcium source, but I don’t know about feeding whole egg shells. I would do a little more research specifically on the calcium requirements of large breed puppies if I were you. She will be getting calcium from bones, egg shells, spinach and ?

Feeding a whole fish once a week is good because of the oil it provides, be sure not to feed tuna because of the high mercury levels. Cooked Tripe is great and so is a some coconut oil. I figure I can saute the veggies in coconut oil.

In general, I would feed small fish, they usually have softer bones and less toxic buildup. I would not cook the tripe. One of the benefits of feeding “Raw Green Tripe” are the enzymes, and any processing or cooking will destroy those enzymes.

“As far as percentages I have read a few different things but my research has come up with the below.
Version 1
75% Muscle/skin (i.e chicken breast)
10% Edible Bone
5% Liver
5% Non liver organs
5% Anti-oxidants/Veggies
Version 2
50% Meaty Bones
35% Muscle/Skin (i.e chicken breast)
5% Liver
5% Non liver organs
5% Anti-oxidants/Veggies”

I feed my dogs a homemade lightly cooked diet. Version one looks pretty good. Since I lightly cook my guys food I would replace the 10% edible bone with 5% more pureed veggies and 5% supplements to balance out the diet.

“My main questions are about bones.”

This is good because I see bones as the riskiest part of your diet plan and I would carefully consider both sides of the argument so that you can make the most informed choice possible. Also, regarding Wolves and bones, research has shown that larger pieces of bones are excreted from wolves wrapped in the fur of the animal they ate, maybe as a way of protecting their insides from the bone fragments.

Good Luck with the new addition to your family 😉

[Kelly P]

@Anonymously – I do know bones can be risky, but you have to get calcium in the diet. Which is why actually most people grind the bones, meat, and other ingredients into mush. I would prefer that my puppy learn to chew.

Also I don’t really care for you bringing in articles in regards to dogs are not wolves. A dog is a carnivore not an omnivore. You can argue that the parasites living on the meat can threaten the animal’s life, but then you have the same issue with your raw Commercial food, unless they’re not telling the truth and it’s really cooked raw meat.

@Aimee – I understand your worry which is why I’ve spent time researching.
I have not talked to a Veterinary nutritionist because I don’t know of any. A Veterinary is not a nutritionist either so I can’t ask them. Here’s what I’ve learned though for puppy specific food. Puppies need more calcium than an adult dog. I’ve also read that it’s best to start raw feeding from an early age. Do you buy the same bag of food for an adult as for a puppy?

Wysong doesn’t seem to have a difference, I didn’t see any of the Dawrwin’s to have a choice between adult and puppy. Primal Raw Food doesn’t seem to have a difference either… Am I missing the Puppy formula? Nature’s Variety Raw doesn’t seem to have puppy specific formula. I know Blue Buffalo does but that’s merely grain free dog food. I’m not trying to be a jerk, but if the formula for the adult dog doesn’t change why is it an issue? I’ve also read that there’s a large margin of error when feeding raw, maybe like you suggested its only for adults because puppy nutrition is so important. Or maybe because no one expects to feed a puppy any raw food?

[aimee]

Hi Kelly P,

Your plan makes me very nervous. Have you consulted with a veterinary nutritionist? There are a few that will do raw diets and even fewer yet willing to do a raw diet for a growing large breed puppy. It i s very tricky… adult dogs are much more flexible from a nutritional standpoint.

If you want to do raw from puppyhood I’d recommend a commercial raw that has passed feeding trials for growth and is high pressure pasteurized.

[Kelly P]

Ok I have not yet gotten my puppy I have about 4 weeks still. She will grow up to be around 100lbs, so I’ll probably feed her about 2lbs a day. We will be training too with treats so I need to be sure they level each other out. I have done a lot of research as I’ve been preparing for the past 1-2 years. What I found so far is the following.

Feeding anti-oxidants or some sort of cooked veggies is a good idea. Feeding organic eggs, shell and all, is good at least once a week. Egg shells provide a lot of calcium. Feeding a whole fish once a week is good because of the oil it provides, be sure not to feed tuna because of the high mercury levels. Cooked Tripe is great and so is a some coconut oil. I figure I can saute the veggies in coconut oil.

As far as percentages I have read a few different things but my research has come up with the below.

Version 1
75% Muscle/skin (i.e chicken breast)
10% Edible Bone
5% Liver
5% Non liver organs
5% Anti-oxidants/Veggies

Version 2
50% Meaty Bones
35% Muscle/Skin (i.e chicken breast)
5% Liver
5% Non liver organs
5% Anti-oxidants/Veggies

My main questions are about bones. I know you can’t just let the dog eat bones they have to get used to them so they actually chew them, else I’ll have to grind them up. But I’d prefer not to. Wolves don’t grind their bones up prior to eating.

I also am not entirely sure of what are good meaty bones, I know almost all bones in small animals are fine. Neck/tail bones of larger animals for the most part are fine. To stay away from basically legs as they’re denser. And an Edible bone should be something that is easily consumable.

What would be the best way to get my puppy acclimated to bones properly? Hand feeding is one I’ve found, but will I be able to trust my dog as she gets older and bigger? I don’t plan to leave her food out or anything but let’s say I put the food down and something comes that needs my attention for a bit. I’d like to think she’d be fine. I’m paranoid and want to do this right.

Also could I possibly be missing something at all?

Resources used
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ijP_CVZUa5g&list=LLcG0oHG3mpprbGFFglrzVyg&index=2
http://www.dogsnaturallymagazine.com/raw-feeding-primer/
http://rawfeddogs.org/rawguide.html
http://healthypets.mercola.com/sites/healthypets/archive/2013/04/01/raw-food-diet-part-1.aspx
http://healthypets.mercola.com/sites/healthypets/archive/2013/04/01/raw-food-diet-part-2.aspx
http://healthypets.mercola.com/sites/healthypets/archive/2013/04/01/raw-food-diet-part-3.aspx
http://www.dogster.com/forums/Raw_Food_Diet/thread/697247/1
And various other user forums and sites.

• This topic was modified 10 years, 2 months ago by Kelly P.

[El]

Hi EmilyAnn

Congratulations on slimming down your little cutie pie 😉

It’s safe to give your pup pumpkin every day. If you’re looking for a variety of healthy snacks, you could try broccoli, apples, carrots, bananas, homemade jerky, kefir, eggs, ???

The key is moderation, so even things like carrots, apples, bananas, and any other non low glycemic fruits or veggies can be enjoyed for variety, antioxidants, and just because he likes them. Eggs are the “perfect protein” and my dogs like them, plain kefir is a good probiotic, but it is dairy, homemade jerky is high protein and very yummy.

Variety is good, try a lot of things, make sure the total of ALL his treats are not more than 10 to 15% of his diet, so you don’t unbalance what I hope is his balanced commercial raw. When you try new things give very little so if it doesn’t agree with him it’s only minor.

One of mine ONLY eats homemade chicken jerky, no turkey, no fish, no beef, no bullies, no veggies, nothing but chicken jerky, for treats anyway. You think he’s spoiled? 😉

Congratulations again on his successful weight loss! I know he must have acted like you were starving him.

[EmilyAnn]

Hi All!

We FINALLY successfully got all the weight off our dachshund mix (it was TORTURE). Our vet suggested we supplement the dog food with pumpkin (or green beans, but he hates green beans) while he’s losing weight, so he has been getting a rotational raw frozen commercial diet with roughly 1-1 1/2 tbsp pumpkin at every meal. I would like to diversify his diet with some other vegetables, and here are my questions:

1. What are the best Low Glycemic Vegetables to feed a dog on a daily basis?
2. Is it safe to continue to give him pumpkin every day?

He also get fish oil every day and coconut oil every other day.

Thanks for your time!
Emily

[EmilyAnn]

Hi Everyone,

I have a 5 year old Dachshund mix who has horrible breath. We do rotational raw frozen (commercial diet) with fish oil 1 time/day and coconut oil every other day. A friend of mine also feeds raw and told me that her dog’s breath is only better when she uses ProDen Plaque Off, which I had tried in the past but discontinued when I ran out because I wasn’t sure if it was doing anything for my dog’s plaque. But it’s got me thinking again about sea kelp and wondering if anyone else uses a sea kelp product? Does it help? Looking into this one: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00G4V0KP4?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=ox_sc_act_title_1&smid=A1ROM4OZCLTYDD

Thanks!
Emily

[Danni A]

I recently read something about high protein diets being inappropriate for Irish Wolfhound pups. Both my pups, now 8 months old, are on high protein diets. I stumbled on this site whilst researching, as I was concerned that we had unintentionally harmed our dogs by feeding a high protein diet. However, after doing some extra research and considering the size and condition of our dogs, I think the higher protein diet has been ideal for them. They have grown quickly compared to smaller breeds, yes, but they are a giant breed. When comparing their size to growth charts for the breed, they are much smaller and so would appear to be growing slower than what is considered the norm by breeders. At the moment, we feed our male pup a bit more than our bitch because he is taller and leaner than her. We feed 500-600 grams kibble in the mornings (Ivory Coat grain free for pups, alternated with Black Hawk for pups – does contain some grain) and we feed 500-600 grams Raw Puppy 76 or sometimes BARF in the evenings. They receive meaty bones like lamb shanks once a week as a treat, and other natural treats during training. The dogs are happy, energetic (when not sleeping), have good coat condition with no itches, rashes or hair loss, no stomach upsets and regular healthy stools. So I’m inclined to think that a higher protein diet has been very good for them. I hope someone finds this post useful or has any feedback to provide.

• This reply was modified 10 years, 2 months ago by Danni A. Reason: spelling error and clarity

[El]

Hi sherrie l, welcome to DFA

Your instincts are correct! Your lab would benefit from a proper diet for his condition, and in my opinion that would be a LOW CARB wet food, preferably homemade, or commercial raw, cooked, or canned.

Diabetes is a disease in which the body either doesn’t produce enough insulin to correctly breakdown carbohydrates, or the body becomes resistant to the insulin it does make. Since diabetes always affects carbohydrate breakdown, it makes sense to limit carbs as much as possible. At least that’s the way I see it, and limiting carbs as much as possible is the best way to normalize blood sugars and avoid diabetic complications.

So, if you agree with me so far then I would like to offer you a few diet options;

1) Homemade, properly balanced, low carb, moderate fat. high protein, lightly cooked. I feel this is the best option. ANY change in diet should be done slowly, over a minimum of 2 weeks. If you want to try raw, I would first do a 2 week transition to lightly cooked, and then an additional 2 week transition from lightly cooked to raw. A good book to start you off is;

Any recipe for raw food that does NOT contain ground bones can be safely cooked. ANY changes in diet will also require an adjustment in insulin. Less carbs = less insulin, more carbs = more insulin. I would NOT change his diet without monitoring his blood sugars at home, at least 4 times a day during transitions. I would also consult a Vet who is willing to support you on a change to a low carb diet.

2) Any 5 star raw, cooked, or canned food that meets these guidelines;
Low carb = less than 15% of calories from carbohydrates
Moderate fat = less than 50% of calories from fat.
High protein = minimum, 35% of calories from protein
These are MY definitions and others may have different opinions on what constitutes low, moderate, or high.

5 star wet – /dog-food-reviews/wet/5-star/

5 star raw – /dog-food-reviews/raw/5-star/

Editors choice (a fee applies) – /editors-choice-landing/

I wish you and your pup the best 😉

PS – “My 11 year old lab was recently diagnosed with diabetes and is taking *15 mls.* of insulin twice a day.”

You mean 15 units. U-100 insulin has 100 units per mL, and U-40 insulin has 40 units per mL. Each line on an insulin syringe equals 1 unit, not 1 mL 😉

[Jenn H]

There are different causes of GERD which can require different treatments/diets. If you can afford it I strongly suggest you get you get your dog scoped to find the actual cause. It could be megaesphogus like you assume or a hiatal hernia or a couple other things.
In the mean time some things seem to work across the board. The low fat foods and 4-6 small meals. Avoid all grains, starchy vegs, legumes, refined sugar. Give pumpkin or squash instead. Raw, unpasteurized honey. No/low fat cottage cheese or kefir. Naturopath options like enzymes & probios.
Some think it’s a good idea to feed from a raised bowl. I had a dog with very mild reflux who was fed from a raised bowl. He eventually died of bloat. Which I later found out that there can be (not always) a connection between reflux & bloat. No one has yet to figure out weather a raised bowl is good or bad for dogs, it is suggested to raise the bowl only a couple inches from the floor. Dogs are designed to eat standing up from the ground, but some need a very slightly elevated dish. (I tend to agree feeding dogs & horses with ground feeders. It is more natural.)

I have a dog right now who has some GI issues as a result of a lot of antibiotic treatments. The longer she goes without a meal, the more likely she is to have a rumbling belly, nausea, discomfort, etc. Smaller meals throughout the day helped her a lot when she was really sick.

[Susan]

Hi, I use “Natural Animal Solutions” Omega 3,6 & 9 oil, here’s the link, you’ll find the Vitamin E comes natural in the 3, 6 &9 Oil, click on ingredients & its say’s natural vitamin E… http://www.naturalanimalsolutions.com.au/omega36&9-oil-for-dogs-horses.html

Check out Rodney Habib Face Book page about Vitamin D, Rodney Habib the Pet Nutrition blogger spends 45mins a day preparing his 3 dogs raw diet, they are feed organic grass feed meats, he thought their fish oil capsule was supply their vitamin D, he started to look into Vitamin D deficiency & went to his vets had bloods taken from his dogs & they were low in vitamin D, he was in shock couldn’t believe it…… join his Face Book Page he really opens your eyes to so many things, I love the bloke…

[Susan]

Hi, have you looked at the Royal Canine S/O Urinary? When I rescued my boy he was weeing blood, while he was being desexed he had an ultra scan & he had Crystals stones, he was put on the Royal Canine S/O Urinary wet & dry for 6 weeks, after 6 weeks he had another ultra scan to see if the crystal had dissolved & they had all dissolved, the Royal Canine worked, vet said he must of been used for breeding… Patch also has skin problems when he eats any Hills vet diets, he itches real bad, but while he was eating the Royal Canine S/O he never scratched…

I went thru a Animal Naturopath cause Patch has IBD & Skin problems, Jacqueline Rudan put Patch on a Raw maintenance Diet, that I cook now, minus the bones, here’s the Diet but scroll down & click on the “Acidifying Urinary Crystals Diet” & see what foods Jacqueline recommends you feed for your dogs health problem….
http://www.naturalanimalsolutions.com.au/natural-diet.html

[Cory C]

Hi I just joined and saw your post. I’m not sure about all of those supplements. I have four little Yorkies that have been on a raw a diet and doing exceptionally well for about four years now. The only supplements that I give them other than the correct amount of raw they should be on is Alaskan Fish Oil and Cranimals for their teeth and other health benefits. I have tried so many other products for their teeth but this is the best by far.

I truly think that a raw diet is so beneficial for their overall health and immune system.

I’m sorry I don’t know about the other supplements you mentioned but have seen many of Dr. Becker’s videos on Youtube and think she’s so knowledgeable.

Take care and I hope others respond to your thread as well

[Coonhound Mama]

Hi guys,

Just wanted to ask some advice of you knowledgeable people! Over the course of 5 months we have successfully made the switch to an entirely raw, homemade diet. With the exception of some confusion with Vitamin E and Fish Oil supplementation, I feel pretty good about her diet being balanced! Thanks for all the advice you all have offered so far. In conjunction with Dr. Karen Becker’s book, I feel confident she’s getting the nutrition she needs.

Anyhow-

I am confused. In place of krill oil or fish oil my 60 lb active dog has been getting one large raw whole sardine per day at the evening meal, which makes 7 full sardines a week. These are from Hare Today Gone Tomorrow. Is that too many?

Second question is- how much Vitamin E do I supplement her with? Do I need to fiddle some more with my amounts in order to get the ratio of fish oil to Vitamin E properly in order?

I have already placed an order for Mercola’s Spirugreen Superfood and Dr. Harvey’s Herbal Multivitamin and Mineral Supplement. Would the Vitamin E be included in the Vitamin Supplement?

Thanks in advance for the help.

[Denise R]

Our dog had blood tests that determined that she was allergic to peanuts, potatoes, & soybeans as well as environmental allergies such as grass & pollen. For a while we took her for regular allergy shots but gave up when we felt we had just as good control through close monitoring of her diet & she really didn’t like to spend time outside anyway (& she’s a Brittany😧). Throughout the years we have found that the dog food companies will change their formulas and not inform the consumer even by stating “new formula” on the bag. You can read the ingredients list 50x’s & the 1st time you buy it without reading the label there are changes. With recent changes we found ourselves looking for again another dog food. We did notice that a lot have peas in them now too. Our dog DID NOT do well on anything with peas. Whenever she gets something she is allergic to she will lick patches of her skin raw or her mouth will turn bright red & her eyes water. So my words of advice are that you need to read the ingredients every time. With this new shift to add peas we are again searching for a new dog food. But fortunately we have found that one of the more reputable dog foods on the market (that our dog could never eat) has changed its formula and our dogs are doing well on it. Our Brittany’s skin is healing nicely & they all seem to be doing well again. PS for years the only food that suited our dog was one of the cheapest ones on the market. While it kept her allergy free we did notice an absence of the benefits of a good dog food, nice fur, reduced stool/waste, etc.

[Charmaine T]

My dog has allergies as well. Unfortunately, when you try to find a single protein/carb diet, the highest rated foods will add something stupid like eggs or chicken fat, which are red flags to an allergy dog. Or they mix several proteins, which makes the feed no longer useable. I can’t feed my dog fish oils and have to give him omega 3’s via Flax Oil. My dog can’t tolerate raw. I may have to go to cooking to get around the issues with bagged food.

According to my dog’s dermatologist, the proteins to avoid are poultry (chicken and turkey) and lamb, since they have been overused in dog food. Duck, Rabbit, Kangaroo and Bison are considered “exotic” since they are not included in mainstream dog food. I’ve seen some brands offer water buffalo (Southeast Asia, India and China). Some of these manufacturers have got to learn that less is more. I will not feed Hills or Iams special diets from the vets. I keep hoping I can search this site to find a food that will meet my needs. Good luck to us all.

[Shawna]

I foster/fostered puppies for Boston Terrier, Papillon and an all breed rescue. None of mine are now puppies but I’ve had some 20 or more ranging in age from 4 days old (with his mommy of course), five weeks, many that were in the 8 to 12 week range and on up. All puppies already weaned have started right on the same rotational diet that the adult dogs ate. I’ve found puppies actually tolerate the change in diet MUCH BETTER than do adult dogs. I’ve only had one that ever had a problem and he was reacting to a specific protein I was rotating in. In my experience, there’s no need to wait till a specific age to start rotating (or adding high quality canned, cooked or raw toppers).

I rotate kibble brands/proteins about every week, rotate the canned topper every three to four days and rotate the raw I’m using as a topper every other day. Half the diet is raw, teaspoon of canned and the rest is kibble.

• This reply was modified 10 years, 2 months ago by Shawna.
• This reply was modified 10 years, 2 months ago by Shawna.

[Keira L]

Hey there, I have boxer called Lola, she was diagnosed with congenital renal failure 2 months ago, she is at stage 4, she turns 2 in feb so she is a bubba ❤️
She is not sick, still energetic, very very hungry , we just noticed her weeing in the night and it got progressively worse, to where she was weeing every night. Since a diet change she is a lot better, maybe has a little accident 2-3 times a week at the most.
Our vets gave us hills KD and pretty much just said there’s nothing you can do just give her a happy life for what she has left?? They gave her 1 yr or more , prob won’t make it to 5.
No supplements, no advice or any other information, we asked a million questions and did our research and asked them about raw and supplements etc which they didn’t really like I don’t think. We were really sad about the lack of help, as help or advice/information, as we have loved our vets to date.
Our second vet visit after upping her food a bit she put on weight which I though was great, 2kg I thought. But I still feel our vets feel like there is no hope, am I crazy for thinking that there is?? And that there are some positives surrounding her at the moment.
-energy-appetite-weight gain

I have been researching endlessly, it s very overwhelming, I have decided to go onto a raw /vegetable diet with supplements, again very overwhelming as there are a lot of options and conflicting information.
I wanted to know some advice on good veggies for her? We were adding sweet potatoe, carrots green beans- egg yolk and lean hamburger mince to her diet. I opted for lean meat as she had pancreatitis as a very young pup and heard that they shouldn’t have high fat after suffering from that.
Raw chicken breast good option?
Anyway I love my girl so much I would love some ideas on food to give her? Any advice for stage 4 renal failure??
She is now getting renal support, fish oil, coq10, pro and prebiotic – and was looking get her on a gentle fibre as I was researching nitrogen trapping. Does that conflict with pre and probiotics??
Sorry I’m typing fast hope this makes sense haha
Any positive stories or advice would be amazing!
Thank you so much :)))
Keira 😀😀😀

[aimee]

Hi Lovemypuppy,

There are various ways to calculate calorie needs and none of them are particularly accurate in regards to any one dog. After arriving at the number nutritionists will say that any individual dog can deviate 50% in either direction from that number. So if I calculate 500 kcals a day that means some dogs may require only 250 kcals a day and others 750 kcals.

Feed to body condition, calculate the calories that your dog requires and then if switching between foods feed on a caloric basis.

I have found that feeding calculators for raw diets are usually on the low end. I think that is so it makes the diet look more affordable than it actually is.

I took a look at Natures Variety calculator and plugged in some info and I agree the number of ounces they recommend didn’t add up to the number of kcals recommended. You may want to contact the company about that. The calculator told me to feed 9.5 ounces and 590 calories but 9.5 ounces fell far short of 590 calories using their caloric data.

Inked Marie.. It never made sense to me to say feed 2-3% body weight as the number of calories/ kg vary greatly. For example for Primal pork they report 35 kcals/ounce. Using the 2-3% rule i would feed between 6-9 oz a day for my dog or ~210-315 kcals. But if i used 6-9 ounces of their beef formula 384-576 kcals. Nearly a 2 fold difference.

[Rox B]

I feed PMRD 80/10/5/5 and believe organs are essential for making the diet complete. I still feel organs should not be fed during the transitioning from kibble to raw until the dog’s gut has had time to develop a more acidic PH level (after 3 different proteins and no diarrhea). When dogs just start out eating raw the PH in their guts are still too alkaline from kibble. They can have trouble digesting the rich nutrients and fats in organ meat. A dog’s gut needs time to develop the acidic PH levels capable of digesting organs (and raw bones). Especially, in small breeds like the OP’s dog.

• This reply was modified 10 years, 2 months ago by Rox B.