[Anonymous]

Please be careful with supplements as some food and treats have glucosamine, chondroitin, hydraulic acid. Sometimes more is not better and overdoing could have a negative effect.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi DieselJunki –

Glycosaminoglycans (GAGs) are important constituents of cartilage and help to maintain joint function. GAG’s and GAG precursors would include glucosamine, chondroitin and hyaluronic acid. MSM, which is an organic form of the essential mineral sulfur, can be beneficial for joints as well due to the fact that connective tissues require sulfur for maintenance. Cetyl Myristoleate is a supplement that’s recently gained popularity as a joint supplement and has been shown to lubricate joints and maintain function. Whole food supplements that are rich in GAGs are sea cucumber, green lipped mussel, shark cartilage and eggshell membrane. Raw meaty bones are rich in GAGs as well – with trachea, poultry feet and gullet probably being the richest sources. I feel that large/giant breed dogs that are not fed a diet including raw meaty bones on a daily basis should be started on a joint maintenance supplement at a year old (until the dog is a senior or starts to exhibit joint issues the supplement can be given at half the recommended dose). When it comes to joint supplements if you buy supplements made for humans they will be MUCH cheaper per dose. The ingredients used in human supplements are the same as those used in dog supplements so there’s no reason human supplements can’t be used (they’re probably higher quality as well). For a young dog with no joint issues there’s no reason to supplement with every beneficial ingredient under the sun – a capsule of green lipped mussel, shark cartilage, sea cucumber or eggshell membrane or a basic glucosamine/chondroitin supplement will give enough maintenance support to a young dog free of joint issues. For older dogs or dogs that are exhibiting symptoms of arthritis natural anti-inflammatories such as white willow, yucca, boswellia, turmeric/curcumin, tart cherry and supplemental omega 3’s can be beneficial to give in addition to a joint maintenance supplement.

[DieselJunki]

I know Moose is only 4 months right now BUT I’ve been doing some research about hips and large breed dogs. Doing some Googling I’ve read quite a few people recommend giving a joint supplement even if there are no joint problems in their dog, even starting as young as puppies. Now I have been on a Mercola supplement kick because they seem so well put together and are very well talked about here. They pretty much have me sold on the Hip Supplement but I just wanted to check in here and hear about other people’s experiences with hip and joint supplements.

Now correct me if I’m wrong but when looking for a joint supplement that maintains the hips you would be looking for things with: msm, glucosamine, chondroitin, hydraulic acid.

So far the one’s I have looked into are:
Welly Tails
Vet’s Best
K9 Joint Strong
Mercola

These all seemed to have those 4 things I mentioned up there. Some seemed more for arthritic dogs or dogs that already had painful joints and others seemed better at just being hip and joint maintenance.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi Shihtzumom20 –

I just checked out Big Country Raw’s website – I’m jealous that you can get this food, the price is great! $2.50/lb. for pre-mixed food is very reasonable. I’m not too far from some of the retailers (I’m on the Canadian border) unfortunately I think a law was passed recently making it illegal to transport pet food across the border.

I can’t find a statement of nutritional adequacy on the website and it does appear there are a few things missing that you will need to supplement to make the food balanced. First of all, yes you will want to add omega 3’s as there aren’t any added to the food. Follow the dosage chart I posted previously. Second, after reading the ingredients for each of their foods I can tell you that there are inadequate levels of vitamin e and vitamin d. Vitamin e is difficult to supply in adequate quantities through food alone and therefore should be supplemented. It will be especially critical that you supplement with vitamin e once you start adding omega 3’s as consumption of omega 3’s increases the the fat soluble antioxidant requirement. As a general rule supplement about 50 I.U. vitamin e per 20 lbs. If you get capsules with a high dosage (most come in 200 IU or 400 IU) you can just give one whole capsule 2-3 times per week. For the vitamin d, there is some vitamin d in beef liver (about 50 IU per 4 oz.), but not all of the formulas contain beef liver and even for the formulas that do, I doubt that there is enough to fulfill vitamin d requirements. Vitamin d can be added in supplement form or (more preferably) in whole food form. Some foods that are rich in vitamin d: cod liver oil (~400 IU per tsp.), cage free eggs (~30-50 IU per egg), Kefir (~100 IU per cup), oily fish (amount of vitamin d present varies on the type of fish but sardines, mackerel and salmon are generally considered good sources), some varieties of plain yogurt and cottage cheese are supplemented with vitamin d (check the label). Your dog should be getting about 200 IU vitamin D per pound of food consumed. Also, rotate between all their protein sources – don’t rely on one – this will provide him with the greatest balance. You may also want to consider adding another whole food supplement, I see kelp is is added to a few of the varieties. Kelp is great and supplies a lot of trace nutrients but the more variety the better, especially when a dog is deriving all of their nutrition from whole foods and not relying on synthetically added vitamins and minerals. My dogs get kelp and they also get things like spirulina, alfalfa, wheat grass, bee pollen, chlorella, etc. I switch up their supplements frequently. It says they offer a vitamin/mineral supplement but it doesn’t list the ingredients, you could check that out.

Yes, RMB’s are a wonderful source of glucosamine and chondroitin. Because he’s young and he’s a small breed not prone to joint issues, RMB’s should provide all the joint support he needs for now. I wouldn’t worry about a joint supplement until he’s a senior.

[Shihtzumom20]

Hi Hound Dog Mom,
So here is the chicken dinner ingredients:
Big Country Chicken Dinner
Ingredients
Ground chicken with bone, beef liver, fruit and vegetable puree. Garlic and kelp.
A complete and balanced meal choice. Protein-max 16%. Fat-min 12%. Moisture-62%. Fibre-2.6%
The chicken dinner has the highest fat, the rest are not over 10%. Of course I don’t really know how to convert it to dry matter basis, I did see how on here but I think my calculation was way off, lol!
Other than the fish I don’t see any fish oil added, would you say to add in the krill oil? I think they want you to feed the fish dinner every now and again, but they use cod, haddock or sole.
I guess I will hold off the joint supplement, do rmb’s help supply glucosamine and chrondroitin? He is getting his first chicken wing for his evening meal! I am so excited, I showed it to him and he wanted to take it so I think he will like the true raw diet! But he is still young with no issues so far, so since he is getting it naturally I think he will be good for now!
Thanks for all your help HDM! He is at me right now for his chicken wing!
And I like your schedule for vaccinating, I think I personally would feel better if he got his one year shots, and then I might titer him at 2 and go from there.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi Shihtzumim20 –

Krill oil is great because it’s low in contaminants and contains a very potent naturally occuring antioxidant called astaxanthin. If the food already has added omega 3’s (fish oil) use the krill oil sparingly because, yes, you can give your dog too much of a good thing. Here’s a dosage chart for fish/krill oil:

-250 mg. daily for toy breeds and cats (1 – 14 lbs.)
-500 mg. daily for small dogs (15 – 29 lbs.)
-1,000 mg. daily for medium dogs (30 – 49 lbs.)
-1,500 mg. daily for large dogs (50 – 79 lbs.)
-2,000 mg. daily for dogs 80+ lbs.

When your dog is on a raw diet that includes bones and cartilage there won’t be as much of a need for a joint supplement because bones/cartilage are full of naturally occurring glucosamine and chondroitin. If you have a senior dog or a dog with an orthopedic problem, however, a supplement may still be necessary. After heavy activity my senior gets a few capsules of Wysong’s Arthegic (my favorite joint supplement). It’s marketed as a human supplement but great for dogs too. Wysong even includes a dosage chart for dogs on their website. It contains boswellia, sea cucumber, turmeric, ginger, devil’s claw, yucca, red pepper and cetyl myristoleate.

I personally vaccinate my dogs as puppies (parvo/distemper at 8 weeks, 11 weeks, 14 weeks and a rabies at 16 weeks) and then I vaccinate 1 year after their last puppy booster. I don’t vaccinate again other than rabies every 3 years to comply with law. This is something you need to research yourself and decide what you are comfortable doing with your dog. Some people vaccinate every year, some every 3 years, some like I do, some only do puppy shots and others don’t vaccinate at all. Check out healthypets.mercola.com- Dr. Becker has some great information and videos on vaccinating.

[Shihtzumom20]

Hi Hound Dog Mom,
Thanks so much for your reply! After doing some more research I decided to still go with a premade raw, it is a small company and all the ingredients are human grade, and from southern Ontario. It is called Big Country Raw. I have been looking at supplements and have been thinking of adding Krill oil to his raw. Would this be recommended? They do have a fish dinner, but it has salmon and tuna in it, so I think I would like to avoid that. Should I start supplementing him with Krill Oil? I like the benefits, then I read on another forum here that too many Omega 3’s can be bad too. So I was wondering what you guys think of that? And also do you guys use a joint supplement for your dogs? I have been trying to research on the internet but having been having much luck in whether to supplement or not. He is only a year and a bit, so I don’t know if I should wait to start a joint supplement or if it is beneficial to start him on it young. Also if someone could direct me to the vaccinating thread that would be greatly appreciated(if there is one)! He is coming up to his 1 year shots and I am not sure whether to get them or not, any advice on supplementing and vaccinating are greatly appreciated, thanks so much guys!

[Hound Dog Mom]

Chicken feet are great to feed, they’re the perfect size for smaller dogs too. Chicken feet are very rich in glucosamine and chondroitin so they help keep the joints healthy.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi sp464 –

I would check out Earthborn – it’s similar in price and rating to TOTW and Canidae but it’s not made by Diamond.

suztzu had a great suggestion with the canned food. Tripett is one food in particular that dogs love – I’ve never heard of a dog that turned their nose up to green tripe. Tripett is just plain canned green tripe so it’s to be used as a topper only, not a complete food. You can take some and mash it up with warm water to make a gravy and completely coat the kibble.

There’s also the option of feeding only canned or a fresh cooked food (such as Freshpet or use a Premix – such as THK’s Preference or Sojo’s) and adding your own fresh meat – dogs seem to prefer these types of foods to dry food, however it could get costly with a larger dog like a great dane.

Are you giving her anything for her joint stiffness? Wysong makes a great supplement called “Arthegic” that has boswellia, sea cucumber, turmeric, ginger, devil’s claw, yucca, red pepper and cetyl myristoleate – all powerful natural anti-inflammatories. I use it occasionally for my senior after he’s had some heavy exercise. You may also want to give her some fish oil daily, the omega 3’s act as a natural inflammatory and seniors can benefit from additional DHA in the diet.

[sp464]

I have an 8 old Great Dane who refuses to eat unless there’s lots of special treats in it – chicken breast, peanut butter, treats, etc. She’s on the skinnier side of healthy, getting too close to underweight for my taste and her refusal to eat is not helping! We use a glucosamine joint powder that mixes with water, so if she doesn’t eat her food within 20 minutes, it becomes soggy cereal. I’ve tried giving her dry kibble and using the joint powder separately and she still won’t eat the kibble unless she’s starving. She never says no to treats and will walk around sniffing things like she’s hungry but really waits for desperation to set in before she goes for the bowl.

I had her on Canidae, as that’s what she was fed in foster care (I’ve only had her 4 months) and she was fine, though never food motivated. She was also fine staying with my sister for a few weeks. In both places, she had another dog who would gladly eat her food if she left it so I think competition played a big role there.

I recently switched her to Taste of the Wild, as I thought the different flavors might be enticing and I’ve tried two different TOTW flavors but she’s had the same reaction as with Canidae.

Any suggestions of other foods in a similar price range to try? Apart from joint stiffness, she’s got no health issues or allergies that I’m aware of. I’m going crazy trying to please this stubborn old lady!

[anniebug]

i spent a long time trying out dog foods for my over weight lab/collie. when i got her almost 2 years ago she had issues with her joints & she has always been over weight, i finally decided on acana light & fit. the reasons i decided on acana was the high glucosamine & i really liked the reviews i read on it. she does really well on the food she has no joint issues anymore & cutting down her food mixed with pumpkin & other friuts & veggys she has been loosing weight nicely. but latley i have been finding it harder & harder to get my hands on acana all the stores close to me seem to always be running out. I’m not sure what food is smilar?

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi HuskyMom9710 –

First of all, if your dog is 4 years old she can’t develop hip dysplasia. Hip dysplasia is a developmental orthopedic disease that happens during puppyhood. If a dog is going to have hip dysplasia it will have it by the time it’s full grown – however, if the hip dysplasia is mild the dog may not show symptoms until later in life. There’s no foolproof way of preventing dysplasia but responsible breeding (only breeding dogs that have ofa or penn hip clearances), controlling calcium levels during growth, keeping the pup lean while it’s growing and not over exercising the dog while it’s growing can drastically decrease the odds that the dog will develop hip dysplasia.

What are you feeding your dog? A high-quality species-appropriate diet is the foundation of good health. Grains are inflammatory – so if your dog isn’t on a high protein, grain free diet currently I’d look into switching to one.

Supplementing with Omega 3’s (fish oil) can help with inflammation. Some other natural anti-inflammatories are turmeric, boswellia, yucca, bromelian and tart cherry. Digestive enzymes given on an empty stomach can help inflammation (like medizym). Glucosamine, chondroitin, msm and hydraulic acid can help to maintain and regrow deteriorating joint tissue and fluid.

Some supplements I’d recommend:
1) Wysong Arthegic for inflammation (sea cucumber, turmeric, boswellia, devil’s claw, yucca, ginger, red pepper, cetyl myristoleate) with Wysong’s Joint Complex for joint maintenance (contains collagen and msm).
2) Welly Tails Hip and Joint Rx (omega 3’s, tart cherry, glucosamine, chondroitin, msm, hydraulic acid, green lipped mussel).
3) Vet’s Best Advanced Hip and Joint for maintenance (glucosamine, chondroitin, msm, hydraulic acid) with Vet’s Best Muscle and Joint for inflammation (bromelian, boswellia, turmeric, yucca).
4) K9 Joint Strong (glucosamine, chondroitin, msm, turmeric, cetyl myristoleate) – also have a version with white willow for pain relief.

[DieselJunki]

SO I have had my puppy for about a week now and in that week we have noticed his leg is crooked. It’s awkward looking. It’s not painful to him but it’s like he can’t support his weight on it. He stumbles over it occasionally and favors it. You really noticed it when he stands up straight. When he’s drinking or eating at his bowl it shakes like crazy.

I emailed the breeder first off and she replied telling me that “Yes I’ve seen that in puppies, what kind of puppy food are you feeding? It’s too high in protein and he is outgrowing his joints/ligaments or vice versa. Get him some calcium treat tablets too just one a day or the directions on the container, and that will help too, try to get him started on them tomorrow. They grow so fast sometimes that happens. But do have your vet look at him when you go. With in a few days to a week you will be able to tell the difference, you may need to cut back on the high protein in puppy food or mix with a lower protein for awhile.”

I thought we were trying to keep the calcium to a low on these large breeds but she wants me to feed him calcium?

I guess I cannot link pictures here but I’m gunna try anyways.

[InkedMarie]

Pug Mom Sandy: the Only Natural Pet joint supplement….I find this:

BIXBI Joint Supplement for Dogs & Cats

http://www.onlynaturalpet.com/products/Only-Natural-Pet-Super-Daily-Vitamins–Joint-Support/999066.aspx

In Clover K9 Connectin

did you mean any of those? Yes, I could use a mortar & pestal but to be honest, with three dogs and a cupboard of stuff, I’d just as soon buy one already ground/liquid!

[Hound Dog Mom]

Marie –

Welly Tails has some good supplements you might want to check out. They have a powdered joint supplement which I have used on my dogs in the past and liked – it has glucosamine, chondroitin, MSM, green lipped mussel, hydraulic acid, tart cherry and omega 3’s. They also have another supplement (haven’t used this one) called senior dog vitality which has glucosamine, msm, hydraulic acid, green lipped mussel, omega 3’s, digestive enzymes and 6 strains of probiotics. I’m also a big fan of Wysong’s joint supplements – they’re sold for people but can be used for dogs too and come in powder filled capsules, you can just open it up and sprinkle it on the food. They have one called Arthegic that helps inflammation, it has boswellia, sea cucumber, turmeric, ginger, devil’s claw, yucca, red pepper and cetyl myristoleate. Their other supplement is called Joint Complex and supports the joints, cartilage and connective tissue, it contains proteoglycans, glycosaminoglycans and MSM. I think for a dog with severe arthritis the Arthegic and Joint Complex would be very effective if used together.

[pugmomsandy]

Ground psyllium or coconut fiber per meal for stool: 25# dog – 1/2 tsp, 40# – 3/4 tsp, 50# – 1 tsp. Or you can try pumpkin.

If you give both the salmon oil and coconut oil, the total fat content might affect her stool, so just watch that and just give one or the other if needed.

Dr Harvey’s has a green powder joint supplement as does Only Natural Pet. And there’s also Actiflex 4000 liquid. http://www.coxvetlab.com/products.asp 25-50 pounds: 1 tsp. daily loading dose for 5 days, ½ tsp. daily maintenance dose (Actiflex 4000). The K9 version has “beef flavor” but the horse one does not.

Are you able to grind up chicken wings or feet? There’s some good all natural joint supplement there. Or you could grind up tablets in a coffee grinder or mortar and pestal!! (sp?)

[InkedMarie]

As some of you know, we adopted a 9yr old sheltie on Saturday. She has no teeth and has been eating Grandma Lucy’s PureFormance chicken since she got here. She loves it, thankfully! Since day one, I have been giving her Mercola’s probiotics and digestive enzymes. She was on amoxicillin but got the last one yesterday morning.
These are the other supplements my other two get, in addition to the Mercola products:

apple cider vinegar
salmon oil (I use one by Vital Choice)
coconut oil (one of them gets this)
Bug Off Garlic

Her coat is disgustingly dry: the dandruff just flakes off & rains down to the floor. She is scheduled for a bath on Monday February 4th (or whatever that Monday is). What is best to use, internally, for her coat? Both the salmon and coconut oil? If yes, both daily?
Her poops are pretty soft, which I assume is from the dehydrated food. Should I add some pumpkin to her meals? With every meal? I don’t know if I should attempt to add in a dry food or not, with her having no teeth.
I think she has some hip problems. She’ll be ten in June so can use some type of a joint supplement. Any suggestions for one that is powder or liquid? No teeth, don’t want her to attempt to chew something.
She does have an appt at the holistic vets in three weeks. She has a little hair loss on her eyelids, that and the icky coat have me wondering if she has a thyroid issue but she seems to be at a good weight.
Also, when should I start adding more stuff in? I started putting the Mercola stuff in on Sunday morning.
thanks all!

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi Gumbo and Roux Mama –

I consider any dog that will be 60 pounds or more at maturity to be a large breed. If your pup is 8 months old and only 40 lbs. she’ll likely be a medium-sized dog at maturity, but definitely on that medium/large borderline. Feeding a small or medium sized dog as a large breed won’t hurt, so if you’re unsure there’s no reason you can keep the dog lean, limit calcium and limit strenuous exercise, etc. As for her weight, just google body weight scores for dogs and you’ll be able to find pictures of what a good weight should look like. I personally keep my dogs on the lean side, probably leaner than most keep their dogs – I’d rather see my dogs borderlining underweight than borderlining overweight. I think with large dogs any excess weight is just excess stress on the joints. You should see a waistline when you view the dog from above, an abdominal tuck when viewed from the side, you should be able to feel the ribs but they shouldn’t be protruding. A good indication that the dog is underweight is if you can see the hip bones – if you can see these she’s too thin.

[Hound Dog Mom]

cakes42257 –

Science Diet Healthy Mobility is junk. You can get the same benefit by feeding your dog a quality food and supplementing with a quality joint supplement. Glucosamine, chondroitin and MSM are all great for joint maintenance, but you may also want to consider adding a natural anti-inflammatory – such as turmeric, boswellia, yucca, tart cherry or omega 3’s.

[sisu]

I have a 7 year old who is a spinal walking paraplegic. He has no feeling from the waist down. He can walk due to muscle memory which 10-15% of dogs maintain. There is limited bladder and bowel control. Although the conditions are different our goals in waste management may be the same.

Grain inclusive foods result in big fluffy poop. Grain free with the highest meat content and lowest carbs give the best results when feeding kibble. With a balanced raw diet there is barely any waste. Therefore, the poop is very small, ring finger to little finger size. If Prey Model Raw (PMR) is not an option consider premade raw with the highest meat content. After 5 years of trial and error I have found that EVO Herring and Salmon kibble works very well. As almost a contradiction to my high meat, low carb, low fiber rule Blue Buffalo Wilderness Salmon also results in small size poop. I suspect it may be due to the digestibility of the menhaden fish meal. Of the two brands EVO poop is smaller. Some companies will send free samples. Use the contact link on their websites to make the request.

I feed as close to 6 am and 6 pm as possible. There are very few treats given. Rewards are enthusiastic chin scratches and lots of happy, verbal praise. By restricting the frequency of food going in I can predict that poop will happen an hour to and hour and a half after each meal. Exercise will cause him to poop sooner rather than later. Anal stimulation either by lightly touching around the outside of the anus or using a KY jelly lubricated thermometer inserted into the rectum with some slight movement will cause him to poop a couple of hours sooner than expected. Although I have rarely used either of these methods they are useful for getting things back on schedule. If used frequently poop on demand becomes the schedule rather than allowing his natural digestion to establish a schedule.

Below is a list of meat protein in various brands of kibble that I have collected from the ‘net. I have not fed these brands. Although I trust the sources of the information I cannot guarantee it.

Dr. Tim’s Momentum 35/25, 96%
Native Level 4, 35/25, 93%
Diamond Extreme Athlete, 93%
Inukshuk 32/32, 95%
Annamet should be 90+%. Specific amt. is not known.
Orijen 82%
Horizon Legacy 80%
Instinct 70%.
Merrick grain free 70%

I am unsure if the constant leg movement your boy has are muscle spasms. If so, daily muscle massage of the legs and along the spine similar to Tellington Touch, gentle repetitive bicycle movement, and flexing the leg joints and toes may help. All is done slowly. Stop if there is a spasm. Resume when the muscles relax. After 2 years of daily massage/flexing therapy Connor has no spasms.

If your dog is being treated by a general vet I would suggest a visit to a veterinary neurologist or neurosurgeon. Not for surgery but to evaluate and treat the current condition. For example, there is medication that can help with muscle spasms. Also, if it is in the budget, professional physical therapy can help with lingering issues. If the carts were not professionally fitted a neurologist or physical therapist may be able to resolve the current problems.

If interested in raw feeding:
http://preymodelraw.com/how-to-get-started/
http://puppybutt.weebly.com/uploads/7/6/9/2/7692088/beginners_guide_to_prey_model_raw_rv.4.1.pdf

The Paralysis: Neurological and IVDD forum is very helpful and informative.
http://www.handicappedpet.net/helppets/

I hope some of this helps.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi Lab man –

I’m so sorry to hear about your dog, it’s not fun watching your best friend be in pain. I’m a little confused about your post though – you say she’s old and can’t stand on three legs, but that she doesn’t have hip dysplasia and isn’t in pain? I’m going to assume you made a typo and are looking for a joint supplement, otherwise I’m not really sure what you’re looking for.

For a senior dog experiencing arthritis I would recommend a supplement to maintain and rebuild the joints, a pain reliever and an anti-inflammatory.

I think Wysong has the most well-rounded joint supplements I’ve seen. Their “Joint Complex” has a blend of proteoglycans and glycosaminoglycans that will help to maintain joints, cartilage, tendons and connective tissue. Their “Arthegic” has several ingredients designed to moderate inflammation and pain including: boswellia serata, sea cucumber, turmeric, ginger, devil’s claw, yucca, red pepper and cetyl myristoleate. I have used both supplements myself and also on occasion for my senior dog. Personally if one of my dogs was experiencing severe arthritis issues I would put it on these two supplements or find other supplements with similar ingredients. Natural anti-inflammatories are a much safer option than steroids and NSAIDS that vets frequently prescribe – imo. They can be purchased here: http://www.wysonghealth.net/nsf-health-supplements.php.

I feel it would also be a good idea to start to give your dog a fish oil capsule every day – the omega 3’s in fish oil have an anti-inflammatory effect and the fish oil is a rich source of dha which senior dogs have difficulty producing.

[theBCnut]

I can just throw in a pill and mine will eat it, but one of my whole food supplements also has alfalfa in it. I actually have horses too, so sometimes it’s a handful of alfalfa in the blender with other things as part of my homemade supplement. And at one point I was giving the dogs a horse joint supplement that is sprayed on alfalfa pellets.

[theBCnut]

Just me, but these dogs have tons of stress on their joints because of their crooked legs. I would still want to pay close attention to calcium levels.

[skippy5761]

Hi Hound Dog Mom,
Hi Hound Dog Mom,
Really appreciate you taking the time and all the info. Definitely will take the time to read all articles and do research on the raw diet Thread. My older is a finicky eater and has major joint problems, had both ACL repairs down at age 6, she is an American Golden Retriever, my baby is 2 an is an English Cream Golden. Goldens have a tendency to put on weight, so this is one of the reasons I’m looking at a raw diet along with the other benefits from it. My first golden passed from renal failure, so you can understand my concern about high proteins and kidney function. Feeding Core ocean and Merrick Buffalo, both above average kibble, but want to get away from it from everything I have been reading. Thank you again.

[Toxed2loss]

Hi Weimlove,
I do think he’s good for life. But its what you think that matters. 🙂 So here’s an excerpt from a post I made to Shawna, some time ago, talking about adjuvants. Adjuvants are the toxins they add to vaccines to stimulate the immune system into freaking out and attacking the viruses like its life or death, rather than a natural reaction, from a natural encounter with the virus, which in most cases, you wouldn’t even notice your dog was sick. The problem being, the adjuvants are poisons. It’s these poisons that cause the adverse vaccine reactions. I’ve included an example of vaccine induced hives. The more you know about vaccines and how they work, the more comfortably you can make a decision. After all, there’s still a risk, either way. Dogs (some) do die of vaccine reactions. Vaccinated dogs (some) can still get the viruses they were vaccinated for, and some unvaccinated dogs do get the viruses. You have to decide which risk is greater.

“vaccines are a significant and very real vector for impaired health in our pets. Here’s a couple of excerpts… Note the first one is on humans but multiple resources stated that adjuvants for humans are safer than for livestock… These examples are just a peek…

>>>> Is it mere coincidence that rates of autism increased when the Center for Disease Control inserted additions to the recommended vaccination program for infants in 1988? In the 1980s, autism rates were estimated at only six in 10,000 children. Today one in 150 children is autistic, though in some areas autism affects closer to one in 50 children. The U.S. Food and Drug Administration has acknowledged that thimerosal can be a neurotoxin (knowing very well that mercury is a neurotoxin), and in 2004 stated that thimerosal-containing vaccines were associated with autism.
– Timeless Secrets of Health & Rejuvenation: Unleash The Natural Healing Power That Lies Dormant Within You by Andreas Moritz

Learn more: http://www.naturalnews.com/027178_autism_vaccines.html#ixzz212cJmlYT”

Adjuvants! Toxic adjuvants are a major contributor to neurodegenerative diseases. Autism IS a neurodegenerative disease!!! Vaccines are one cause of autism… There are numerous other neurotoxins that cause autism as well. But this is a dog related site so firstI’ll give you the facts about adjuvants, then I’ll bring it back to vaccines in pets…

“A Glimpse into the Scary World of Vaccine Adjuvants
By Edda West – Published in VRAN Newsletter – Winter 2005

http://www.vran.org
Adjuvants are formulated compounds, which when combined with vaccine antigens intensify the body’s immune response. They are used to elicit an early, high and long-lasting immune response. “The chemical nature of adjuvants, their mode of action and their reactions (side effect) are highly variable in terms of how they affect the immune system and how serious their adverse effects are due to the resultant hyperactivation of the immune system. While adjuvants enable the use of less *antigen to achieve the desired immune response and reduce vaccine production costs, with few exceptions, adjuvants are foreign to the body and cause adverse reactions”, writes Australian scientist Viera Scheibner Ph.D, (1)

The most common adjuvant for human use is an aluminum salt called alum derived from aluminum hydroxide, or aluminum phosphate. A quick read of the scientific literature reveals that the neurotoxic effects of aluminum were recognized 100 years ago. Aluminum is a neurotoxicant and has been linked to Alzheimer’s disease and other neurological disorders. Prior to 1980, kidney patients undergoing long term dialysis treatments often suffered dialysis encephalopathy syndrome, the result of acute intoxication by the use of an aluminium-containing dialysate. This is now avoided using modern techniques of water purification. In preterm infants, prolonged intravenous feeding with solutions containing aluminum is associated with impaired neurologic development. Scientists speculate that aluminum neurotoxicity may be related to cell damage via free radical production, impairment of glucose metabolism, and effects on nerve signal transduction. (2) Vaccines which contain both aluminum adjuvants and mercury based preservative, greatly magnify the neurotoxic effects. (3)…” http://www.vaclib.org/basic/adjuvants.htm

Immunology and Cell Biology (2004) 82, 488–496 Special Feature Vaccine adjuvants: Current state and future trends NIKOLAI PETROVSKY1 and JULIO CÉSAR AGUILAR2 1 Autoimmunity Research Unit, ANU Medical School, Australian National University, Canberra, ACT 2061, Australia and Vaccines Division, Center for Genetic Engineering and Biotechnology, Ave. 31 e 158 y 190, Cubanacán, Apdo 6162, Ciudad, Habana, Cuba 2 Summary

“… In addition, alum has the potential to cause severe local and systemic side-effects including sterile abscesses, eosinophilia and myofascitis, although fortunately most of the more serious side-effects are relatively rare. There is also community concern regarding the possible role of aluminium in neurodegenerative diseases such as Alzheimer’s disease. ..

…Adverse reactions to adjuvants can be classified as local or systemic. Important local reactions include pain, local inflammation, swelling, injection site necrosis, lymphadenopathy, granulomas, ulcers and the gen- eration of sterile abscesses. Systemic reactions include nausea, fever, adjuvant arthritis, uveitis, eosinophilia, allergy, anaphylaxis, organ specific toxicity and immunotoxicity (i.e. the liberation of cytokines, immunosuppression or auto- immune diseases).22,23 Unfortunately, potent adjuvant action is often correlated with increased toxicity, as exemplified by the case of FCA which although potent is too toxic for human use…

…Adjuvant regulatory requirements Regulations for the human use of adjuvants are far more rigorous than those applied to veterinary vaccines..

…Quil A has been used successfully for veterinary applications. 44 It is a natural product composed of more than 23 different saponins and is generally considered too toxic for human use…”

Quil A is just one example of the more toxic adjuvants used. I choose this quote because it comes out and states it directly, leaving no room for misconstruing.
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And I came across this. Maybe when people post about their pets dermitis and paw licking (etc.) the first question should be about their vaccination schedule?

“When a perfectly healthy individual is given viruses that cause illness, the animal is going to manifest illness-related symptoms. This healthy individual is asked to maintain a low-level stimulation of a state of distemper, a low level state of parvo, a low level state of rabies, and so on. As long as you are in a low level state of illness you are not in a high level state of health. Therefore, the vaccines provide protection by keeping the body in a diseased state of health. Often the animal will not manifest the illness it is vaccinated for, at least not in its acute form, but it will manifest in other conditions. Usually these conditions are inherited weaknesses.
Chronic symptoms look very much like the acute illnesses but they are often not life-threatening unless allowed to continue for years and years.

For distemper we often see:

Watery fluid dripping from the nose
Conjunctivitis, eye discharge, entropion
Chronic gastritis, hepatitis, pancreatitis, appetite disorders
Recurrent diarrhea
Sensitivity to food with resultant diarrhea
Epilepsy, rear leg paralysis, spondylitis
Lip fold dermatitis
Excessive licking of feet, eruptions between the toes, allergies
Kennel cough, chronic bronchitis
Chronic skin eruptions, especially lower half of body
Failure to thrive, abnormally thin

For rabies we often see:

Restless nature, suspicion of others, aggression to animals and people
Changes in behavior: aloofness, unaffectionate, desire to roam, OR clingy, separation anxiety, ‘velcro dog’
Restraining can lead to violent behavior and self-injury
Self-mutilation, tail chewing
Voice changes, hoarseness, excessive barking
Chronic poor appetite, very finicky
Paralysis of throat or tongue, sloppy eaters, drooling
Dry eye, loss of sight, cataract
Eating wood, stones, earth, stool
Destructive behavior, shredding bedding
Seizures, epilepsy, twitching
Increased sexual desire, sexual aggression
Irregular pulse, heart failure
Reverse sneezing

Some of the illnesses you are familiar with include any auto-immune disease such as lupus, red cell aplasia, auto-immune hemolytic anemia cardiomyopathies; neoplasias such as fibrosarcomas, mast cell tumors, thyroid tumors, etc.; inflammatory bowel disease, eczematous ears, any dermatological condition, warts, lipomas, poor hair coats, stomatitis, periodontal disease, thyroid disease, and the list goes on and on.

Now you could be wondering why I am so bold to ‘blame’ all these and more on vaccines. The reason is simple: I have an empirical, call it experimental lab where I visit daily and watch the animals, year after year. In the short years of my career I have seen the incredible increase in all these illnesses, some we never even learned in vet school. In fact, my vet school is now primarily an oncology treatment center! This was not the case a short 20 years ago. I have also spoken with many vets who have practiced longer than I and their response is the same. They did not see the level of chronic illness, nor the resistant and concretized type of illnesses that we see today. ” by: Dee Blanco who is a holistic veterinarian practicing in Santa Fe, New Mexico.

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« Vaccinations | Main | Adverse Reactions »

Changing Vaccine Procotols – by W Jean Dodds, DVM

The challenge to produce effective and safe vaccines for the prevalent infectious diseases of humans and animals has become increasingly difficult. In veterinary medicine, evidence implicating vaccines in triggering immune-mediated and other chronic disorders (vaccinosis) is compelling. While some of these problems have been traced to contaminated or poorly attenuated batches of vaccine that revert to virulence, others apparently reflect the host’s genetic predisposition to react adversely upon receiving the single (monovalent) or multiple antigen “combo” (polyvalent) products given routinely to animals. Animals of certain susceptible breeds or families appear to be at increased risk for severe and lingering adverse reactions to vaccines.

The onset of adverse reactions to conventional vaccinations (or other inciting drugs, chemicals, or infectious agents) can be an immediate hypersensitivity or anaphylactic reaction, or can occur acutely (24-48 hours afterwards), or later on (10-45 days) in a delayed type immune response often caused by immune-complex formation. Typical signs of adverse immune reactions include fever, stiffness, sore joints and abdominal tenderness, susceptibility to infections, central and peripheral nervous system disorders or inflammation, collapse with autoagglutinated red blood cells and jaundice, or generalized pinpoint hemorrhages or bruises. Liver enzymes may be markedly elevated, and liver or kidney failure may accompany bone marrow suppression. Furthermore, recent vaccination of genetically susceptible breeds has been associated with transient seizures in puppies and adult dogs, as well as a variety of autoimmune diseases including those affecting the blood, endocrine organs, joints, skin and mucosa, central nervous system, eyes, muscles, liver, kidneys, and bowel. It is postulated that an underlying genetic predisposition to these conditions places other littermates and close relatives at increased risk. Vaccination of pet and research dogs with polyvalent vaccines containing rabies virus or rabies vaccine alone was recently shown to induce production of antithyroglobulin autoantibodies, a provocative and important finding with implications for the subsequent development of hypothyroidism (Scott-Moncrieff et al, 2002).

Vaccination also can overwhelm the immunocompromised or even healthy host that is repeatedly challenged with other environmental stimuli and is genetically predisposed to react adversely upon viral exposure. The recently weaned young puppy or kitten entering a new environment is at greater risk here, as its relatively immature immune system can be temporarily or more permanently harmed. Consequences in later life may be the increased susceptibility to chronic debilitating diseases.

As combination vaccines contain antigens other than those of the clinically important infectious disease agents, some may be unnecessary; and their use may increase the risk of adverse reactions. With the exception of a recently introduced mutivalent Leptospira spp. vaccine, the other leptospirosis vaccines afford little protection against the clinically important fields strains of leptospirosis, and the antibodies they elicit typically last only a few months. Other vaccines, such as for Lyme disease, may not be needed, because the disease is limited to certain geographical areas. Annual revaccination for rabies is required by some states even though there are USDA licensed rabies vaccine with a 3-year duration. Thus, the overall risk-benefit ratio of using certain vaccines or multiple antigen vaccines given simultaneously and repeatedly should be reexamined. It must be recognized, however, that we have the luxury of asking such questions today only because the risk of disease has been effectively reduced by the widespread use of vaccination programs.

Given this troublesome situation, what are the experts saying about these issues? In 1995, a landmark review commentary focused the attention of the veterinary profession on the advisability of current vaccine practices. Are we overvaccinating companion animals, and if so, what is the appropriate periodicity of booster vaccines ? Discussion of this provocative topic has generally lead to other questions about the duration of immunity conferred by the currently licensed vaccine components.

In response to questions posed in the first part of this article, veterinary vaccinologists have recommended new protocols for dogs and cats. These include: 1) giving the puppy or kitten vaccine series followed by a booster at one year of age; 2) administering further boosters in a combination vaccine every three years or as split components alternating every other year until; 3) the pet reaches geriatric age, at which time booster vaccination is likely to be unnecessary and may be unadvisable for those with aging or immunologic disorders. In the intervening years between booster vaccinations, and in the case of geriatric pets, circulating humoral immunity can be evaluated by measuring serum vaccine antibody titers as an indication of the presence of immune memory. Titers do not distinguish between immunity generated by vaccination and/or exposure to the disease, although the magnitude of immunity produced just by vaccination is usually lower (see Tables).

Except where vaccination is required by law, all animals, but especially those dogs or close relatives that previously experienced an adverse reaction to vaccination can have serum antibody titers measured annually instead of revaccination. If adequate titers are found, the animal should not need revaccination until some future date. Rechecking antibody titers can be performed annually, thereafter, or can be offered as an alternative to pet owners who prefer not to follow the conventional practice of annual boosters. Reliable serologic vaccine titering is available from several university and commercial laboratories and the cost is reasonable (Twark and Dodds, 2000; Lappin et al, 2002; Paul et al, 2003; Moore and Glickman, 2004).
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* Veterinary Medicine, February, 2002.
References
Dodds WJ. More bumps on the vaccine road. Adv Vet Med 41:715-732, 1999.
Dodds WJ. Vaccination protocols for dogs predisposed to vaccine reactions. J Am An Hosp Assoc 38: 1-4, 2001.
Hogenesch H, Azcona-Olivera J, Scott-Moncreiff C, et al. Vaccine-induced autoimmunity in the dog. Adv Vet Med 41: 733-744, 1999.
Hustead DR, Carpenter T, Sawyer DC, et al. Vaccination issues of concern to practitioners. J Am Vet Med Assoc 214: 1000-1002, 1999.
Kyle AHM, Squires RA, Davies PR. Serologic status and response to vaccination against canine distemper (CDV) and canine parvovirus (CPV) of dogs vaccinated at different intervals. J Sm An Pract, June 2002.
Lappin MR, Andrews J, Simpson D, et al. Use of serologic tests to predict resistance to feline herpesvirus 1, feline calicivirus, and feline parvovirus infection in cats. J Am Vet Med Assoc 220: 38-42, 2002.
McGaw DL, Thompson M, Tate, D, et al. Serum distemper virus and parvovirus antibody titers among dogs brought to a veterinary hospital for revaccination. J Am Vet Med Assoc 213: 72-75, 1998.
Moore GE, Glickman LT. A perspective on vaccine guidelines and titer tests for dogs. J Am Vet Med Assoc 224: 200-203. 2004.
Mouzin DE, Lorenzen M J, Haworth, et al. Duration of serologic response to five viral antigens in dogs. J Am Vet Med Assoc 224: 55-60, 2004.
Mouzin DE, Lorenzen M J, Haworth, et al. Duration of serologic response to three viral antigens in cats. J Am Vet Med Assoc 224: 61-66, 2004.
Paul MA. Credibility in the face of controversy. Am An Hosp Assoc Trends Magazine XIV(2):19-21, 1998.
Paul MA (chair) et al. Report of the AAHA Canine Vaccine Task Force: 2003 canine vaccine guidelines, recommendations, and supporting literature. AAHA, April 2003, 28 pp.
Schultz RD. Current and future canine and feline vaccination programs. Vet Med 93:233-254, 1998.
Schultz RD, Ford RB, Olsen J, Scott F. Titer testing and vaccination: a new look at traditional practices. Vet Med, 97: 1-13, 2002 (insert).
Scott FW, Geissinger CM. Long-term immunity in cats vaccinated with an inactivated trivalent vaccine. Am J Vet Res 60: 652-658, 1999.
Scott-Moncrieff JC, Azcona-Olivera J, Glickman NW, et al. Evaluation of antithyroglobulin antibodies after routine vaccination in pet and research dogs. J Am Vet Med Assoc 221: 515-521, 2002.
Smith CA. Are we vaccinating too much? J Am Vet Med Assoc 207:421-425, 1995.
Tizard I, Ni Y. Use of serologic testing to assess immune status of companion animals. J Am Vet Med Assoc 213: 54-60, 1998.
Twark L, Dodds WJ. Clinical application of serum parvovirus and distemper virus antibody titers for determining revaccination strategies in healthy dogs. J Am Vet Med Assoc 217:1021-1024, 2000.
Posted on September 18, 2006 1:16 AM | Permalink
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Vaccine adjuvants: Current state and future trends NIKOLAI PETROVSKY1 and JULIO CÉSAR AGUILAR2 1 Autoimmunity Research Unit, ANU Medical School, Australian National University, Canberra, ACT 2061, Australia and Vaccines Division, Center for Genetic Engineering and Biotechnology, Ave. 31 e/158 y 190, Cubanacán, Apdo 6162, Ciudad, Habana, Cuba 2

Summary
The problem with pure recombinant or synthetic antigens used in modern day vaccines is that they are generally far less immunogenic than older style live or killed whole organism vaccines. This has created a major need for improved and more powerful adjuvants for use in these vaccines. With few exceptions, alum remains the sole adjuvant approved for human use in the majority of countries worldwide. Although alum is able to induce a good antibody (Th2) response, it has little capacity to stimulate cellular (Th1) immune responses which are so important for protection against many pathogens. In addition, alum has the potential to cause severe local and systemic side-effects including sterile abscesses, eosinophilia and myofascitis, although fortunately most of the more serious side-effects are relatively rare. There is also community concern regarding the possible role of aluminium in neurodegenerative diseases such as Alzheimer’s disease. Consequently, there is a major unmet need for safer and more effective adjuvants suitable for human use. In particular, there is demand for safe and non-toxic adjuvants able to stimulate cellular (Th1) immunity. Other needs in light of new vaccine technologies are adjuvants suitable for use with mucosally-delivered vaccines, DNA vaccines, cancer and autoimmunity vaccines. Each of these areas are highly specialized with their own unique needs in respect of suitable adjuvant technology. This paper reviews the state of the art in the adjuvant field, explores future directions of adjuvant development and finally examines some of the impediments and barriers to development and registration of new human adjuvants.
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Vaccination Reactions: How to Handle an Anaphylactic Reaction due to a Vaccine
Posted on: March 7, 2011
Vaccine reactions! They are such a scary event. In fact, vaccination induced reactions creates anxiety not only for the pet owner, but the patient and veterinarian too.

This page displays one example of a dog with a vaccine reaction to a rabies vaccine, manufactured by a reputable and professional veterinary pharmaceutical company and administered subcutaneously as recommended. Twelve months prior to the rabies vaccine given in this example, the dog (a three-year-old Dachshund) was vaccinated with a multivalent vaccine containing Distemper, Hepatitis, Parainfluenza, Corona and Parvo virus antigens. A mild reaction occurred to that vaccine administration. It is unknown to which fraction of that vaccine the dog reacted.

Prior to this incident, the owners were fully informed about potential vaccine reactions and what to do if another one occurred. They requested a rabies vaccine only (they decided against giving further multivalent vaccinations) in order to conform to local ordinances and to ensure against possible infection from rabies due to the abundant wildlife present in the dog’s environment. The vaccine was administered after a discussion of potential good and undesirable effects of a vaccine.

Two hours after the Rabies vaccine was administered the dog was readmitted for itching and head-shaking, and the presence of “hives” on the dog’s face and head. These eruptions on the skin, called a urticarial reaction, are rounded swollen raised areas of skin tissue that have responded locally to the administration of a substance to which the dog is allergic.

Hives are caused when the body releases histamine from a cell called a mast cell. The histamine then causes leaking of fluid into the surrounding body tissues from the small blood vessels and stimulates the nearby nerve endings producing the itching sensation. The dog was breathing normally but was uncomfortable. Fortunately the vast majority of vaccine reactions in the dog are similar to this case where the targeted tissue is the skin.

Though rare, the tracheal, laryngeal and bronchial tissues can swell, causing a constricted, spastic airway and breathing difficulties — all of which can have life-threatening consequences.
http://m.petmd.com/dog/care/evr_dg_vaccination_reactions
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Rabies Challenge Fund

Why Challenge Current Rabies Vaccine Policy?

Rabies vaccination is required by law in nearly all areas. Even though protection from rabies is documented to last at least three years, current law in some states or areas still requires that boosters be given annually or biannually rather than the standard policy of every three years. However, vaccination against rabies virus is occasionally associated with debilitating adverse effects. According to the CDC domestic animals account for less than 10% of the reported rabies cases, with cats, cattle, and dogs most often reported rabid. Scientific data indicate that vaccinating dogs against rabies every three years, as most states require, is unnecessary.
Studies have shown the duration of protective immunity as measured by serum antibody titers against rabies virus to persist for seven years post-vaccination. By validating the ‘true’ life of rabies virus immunity and moving to five and hopefully seven years, we will decrease the risk of adverse reactions in our animals and minimize their repeated exposure to foreign substances. Killed vaccines like those for rabies virus can trigger both immediate and delayed adverse vaccine reactions (termed “vaccinosis”). While there may be immediate hypersensitivity reactions, other acute events tend to occur 24-72 hours afterwards, or up to 45 days later in the case of delayed reactions.
Reactions that have been documented include:
Behavior changes such as aggression and separation anxiety
Obsessive behavior,self-mutilation, tail chewing
Pica – eating wood, stones, earth, stool
Destructive behavior, shredding bedding
Seizures, epilepsy
Fibrosarcomas at injection site
Autoimmune diseases such as those affecting bone marrow and blood cells, joints, eyes, skin, kidney, liver, bowel and central nervous system
Muscular weakness and or atrophy
Chronic digestive problems

Rabies Exemptions and Waivers
Rabies Vaccination is required by law. In some instances, it is possible to secure a written waiver for exemption from rabies booster vaccination. A letter justifying the medical reason for such exemption needs to be obtained from your primary care veterinarian. When seeking a waiver, a rabies serum antibody titer should be performed. Adequate serum rabies titers are at least 1:5 by the RFFIT method. Waiver requests are not generally accepted based on serum antibody titers alone, but may be granted on a case-by-case basis with justification. Waivers are not granted as a matter of personal preference, and localities often do not permit waivers and exemptions regardless of the justification.”

I have more if you need it… (I tend to overwhelm people with data. GFETE (Grinning From Ear To Ear)

[pugmomsandy]

My small dogs can consume any part of a chicken and turkey and also pork rib bones and rack of lamb (is that lamb rib??) and whole raw sardine. Sometimes I just buy the large package of chicken drumsticks or thighs or wings. Don’t forget chicken feet. Great for teeth cleaning and joint health. I haven’t figured out how to post pictures yet 🙁

[Jackie B]

The vet will probably have a commercial pet cure to sell you… Maybe you should look into a supplement for your pets. Like Solid Gold Seameal (which I use for my dog’s joint, hair, and skin health) or Missing Link (just bought some but don’t have an opinion on it yet). A little extra health boost might prevent some future outbreaks!

[Shawna]

Nice post Patty!!!
Here’s my personal (me not my dog) experience with detoxing. I have issues with the caseine protein in dairy foods. The harder the product the more caseine it has in it — so hard cheeses are REALLY a problem for me. We have opiate receptors in our brains and foods that we are intolerant of can bind to those opiate receptors — which, of course, causes us to crave the food that is an issue (this is true with dairy and gluten at least). And I do crave dairy.. I have found it harder to give up all dairy then quitting smoking (which I did 7 years ago after smoking for some 20 years).

Because of this craving and good feeling from dairy I quit for 2 or 3 weeks but then right back on – sometimes by accident (there’s dairy in SO many foods). The detox, for the first few days especially, can be worse than the symptoms while I’m consuming dairy. Symptoms that have been attributed to my dairy intolerance — weight gain, rash on my scalp with severe itching (to point of bleeding) and thickened skin in small patches, inflammation in upper back and sinus areas, inflammation in joints, brain fog, after long term use of dairy I developed malnutrition along with all the symptoms and issues of that (despite eating a good diet) like hypothyroid due to iodine deficiency and pica due to iron deficiency etc.. I’ve never had digestive symptoms, until about a year ago and then only infrequently — indigestion.

While consuming dairy my sinuses (ears and nose mainly) get inflammed but not mucousy. About the last year or so I’ve been having inflammation in my upper back sometimes with pain that wakes me up at night — I stretch and pop bones in/out even. For about the last two years I’ve been experiencing issues with my lungs. I attributed this to the years of smoking and iron anemia. However, when I quit dairy my back quits hurting, my lungs get better, more energy etc etc. However, the detox is a NIGHTMARE.. The first few days after quitting I get SEVERE sinus inflammation (including headaches and inflammation in my jawline that is so bad my teeth actually become loose). My back gets worse, joints hurt etc. This usually clears up in 4 to 7 days.. After that I start feeling MUCH better but once in a while I’ll still have a “bad” day and the ithy scalp may come back with a vengence or I’ll have a sinus headache with jaw pain for hours. The detoxing is often more intense than dealing with the symptoms while consuming dairy. But, they are always short in duration and after the detox episode I feel MUCH better overall again. Energy continues to increase, lungs continue to feel better (better able to breath and more stamina etc).

I’ve quit and then started back up again enough to KNOW beyond any doubt what symptoms are attributed to the intolerance and what symptoms to expect when I detox..

Our pets must experience very similar symptoms to us. Only they have no control over what foods they are given so craving the food shouldn’t be an issue with them..

[Shawna]

I typed a response out and then lost it — user error UGHHH

I think its a good idea to look for a higher protein food as seniors need more protein than adults and protein is shown to help with weight loss. I’d also suggest trying a potato free food. Potatoes are known to aggravate arthritic issues in some. The protein in nightshade plants, like potato, bind with the fluid in the joints which causes inflammation. This may not be an issue for your pup but better safe than sorry in my opinion. Marie made a wonderful list of grain and potato free foods. It’s in the ingredient forum if I remember correctly.

Some of the foods in Marie’s list may not be high enough in protein but if they are better for the budget you can always add lightly cooked egg whites (high in good quality protein and no fat), boiled chicken, sardines packed in water, high protein canned etc as a topper to whatever kibble you chose.

My girlfriend started her senior dog on a product by Nutromax called Dosaquin. I really dislike some of the ingredients in it but she feels that the benefits are outweighing the negatives for her old lab mix. She’s seen noticable improvement.

I’ve seen a product for joints on Mercola Health Pets that looks great. I’d try this one before the Dosaquin if it were one of my pups. http://healthypets.mercola.com/sites/healthypets/pet-joint-supplements.aspx

I would also suggest organic turmeric and the enzyme bromelain. Both have been shown to have a positive affect on arthritic cases — both are anti-inflammatory. Turmeric is relatively inexpensive and well tolerated by most.

Also, check with your vet on the exercise. I had a girlfriend with a similar case with her lab mix. Turns out the extra exercise was doing more harm than good for her pup. Ended up having to do water workouts with him — great exercise but easier on the joints.

[Hound Dog Mom]

I use Wysong Arthegix 5 days per week for my senior male. It contains boswellia, sea cucumber, turmeric, ginger, devil’s claw, yucca, red pepper and cetyl myristoleate. That’s interesting about the Solid Gold Seameal, I had no idea seaweed was good for the joints – but then again I give my dog sea cucumber and that’s supposed to be good, so I guess it makes sense?

[Shawna]

Hi Jess,

I think you are really wise to look for a higher protein food. Senior dogs need more protein than adult dogs. I’d also like to suggest that you consider a potato free food. Nightshade plants, like potato, have been shown to aggravate some cases of arthritis. The protein in potato (called a lectin) can actually bind with the joint fluid causing inflammation in the area (may not be a problem for your furkid but better safe than sorry in my opinion).

Adding organic turmeric (the spice) to whatever food you feed can be very helpful too. Turmeric has been proven to be a powerful anti-inflammatory and quite effective in arthritic cases (needs to be organic as non-organic can be irradiated which damages the spice). The enzyme bromelain has also had positive results.

And, my girlfriend is using a product called Dasuquin by Nutromax for her elderly lab mix. She says she has seen noticable improvements while on it. I’m NOT AT ALL crazy about the ingredients in it but in her case she feels the good outweighs the bad in her senior pup..

Lastly, Mercola Healthy Pets has a joint supplement that looks really interesting. Personally, I’d try this one over Dasuquin. http://healthypets.mercola.com/sites/healthypets/pet-joint-supplements.aspx

I’m not sure if any of the foods listed in the link below are within your budget, and amounts of protein vary, but these are all grain and white potato free. (Thanks for making the list Marie!!) /forums/topic/grain-and-potato-free-dog-foods/

If a slightly lower protein food is better on the budget, you can always add lightly cooked egg whites (high protein and no fat), sardines packed in water (good source of anti-inflammatory omega 3 and will increase protein), high protein canned foods etc as toppers to the kibble.

Check with your vet on exercising. My frined had a similar issue to yours and found out too late that the extra walking did more harm than good for her pups joints. She ended up having to use water therapy (great exercise without causing negative impact on the joints).

[pugmomsandy]

Stella & Chewy’s Carnivore Crunch, Instinct Boost, Nutrisca freeze dried, Dr Becker Bites (liver chips), Merrick tripe steak patties, tripe chew, freeze dried tripe. Sometimes Wagatha’s and Nature’s Select cookies. On my list to try are FreshisBest freeze dried treats.

http://www.freshisbestinc.com/products/pet-treats-chews

http://www.drbeckersbites.com/shop-by-category/treats/joint-support-solutions-bites.html

[Hound Dog Mom]

This is where I saw the Emu oil pet shampoo:

http://www.jefferspet.com/kalaya-emu-oil-shampoo/p/1217/

It has really good reviews, I’ve never used it though.

And this is the emu joint supplement I remembered seeing:

http://www.kalayaemuestate.com/catalog_i848622.html?catId=36316

I would be curious if anyone here has every used these products and has feedback on them. I’d be interested in trying them.

[pugmomsandy]

For dogs and people…I’ve seen goods things about it but put it on the back burner till Dave’s Hounds brought it up…

What’s the good, bad and the ugly about it? For hot spots/dry nose? For joints? For psoriasis?

[Linda Trunell]

According to The Institute for Natural Healing –

While most of the world seems to be touting the benefits of whole grains these days, a few people are insisting that grains are not as healthy as we think.

One of the reasons grains may be a problem in human nutrition is because they contain lectins, a class of molecules called glycoproteins (molecules that contain a protein and a sugar).

While dietary lectins are known in the scientific and nutritional communities, most lay people and even many medical professionals don’t know about them.

Lectins are involved in food allergies/sensitivities, inflammation and autoimmune disease, just to name a few. For instance, lectins are linked to celiac disease. Even weight gain and low energy can be linked to lectins.

Whole grains, peanuts, kidney beans, and soybeans are high in lectins. Cow’s milk, nightshade vegetables (like potatoes and tomatoes) and some seafood also contain fairly high amounts of lectin. In fact, estimates are that about 30% of our foods contain lectins, and about 5% of the lectins we eat will enter our circulation.

Lectins are problematic because they are sticky molecules that can bind to the linings of human tissue, especially intestinal cells. In so doing, they disable cells in the GI tract, keeping them from repairing and rebuilding.1 Therefore, lectins can contribute to eroding your intestinal barrier (leaky gut).

Because the lectins also circulate throughout the bloodstream they can bind to any tissue in the body ­— thyroid, pancreas, collagen in joints, etc.2 This binding can disrupt the function of that tissue and cause white blood cells to attack the lectin-bound tissue, destroying it. This is an autoimmune response. The lectins in wheat for example, are specifically known to be involved in rheumatoid arthritis.
http://naturalhealthdossier.com/2009/07/lectins-a-little-known-trouble-maker/