[Rita P]

DARWINS raw organic

[DogFoodie]

I’ll let Shawna, our resident expert on kidney disease, know that you could use her help.

Also have you ever considered a raw diet? Darwin’s has one formulated by Dr. Barbara Royal. They’re also happy to work with your vet on getting the best diet for your dog.

[neezerfan]

Hi BRT,
I have 2 Havanese. When I first got them, 1 from a puppy, 1 2 yrs old from a rescue, they had both been eating kibble and had terrible eye/mouth staining. I switched them both to a combo of raw and canned and no more stains! It takes a while to grow out though so you have to be patient. When I got the second dog, I tried introducing kibble to save money and the staining started right up again! I use Darwin’s and Nature’s Variety raw and they do wonderfully on it. I’ve discussed it with my vet and we agree to disagree about it. I think they are required to discourage raw feeding because of public health concerns. It’s the “official” AVMA position.

[Dori]

All my dogs (three toy breeds) are fed commercial raw diets as of about 1 1/2 years ago. I rotate brands as well as proteins. I can now rotate them from meal to meal without a slow transition but that took quite a while to accomplish. Their guts are now at the point that changing from protein to protein doesn’t bother them in the least. My favorite of the commercial raw brands are Primal Pronto (although any of their complete “Formulas” are great), Natures Variety Instinct Raw, Answers Detailed Raw (a bit hard to find), Darwin’s Natural Selection (that’s an auto delivery food only from their web site or by phone), Vital Essentials Raw. These are the brands that my dogs have thrived on. Some of the others are pretty popular also such as Stella & Chewy’s, etc. my dogs haven’t faired as well on the other brands. Since being on raw they no longer has goopy stuff coming from their eyes, tear stains are gone, no more yeasty ears, their skin and coats are healthy and very very shiny. Oh, also no more gas, gurgling tummies, no more smelly poops. You’ll find that their poops are much much smaller and firm enough to easily pick up and dispose of. Their bodies utilize more of the nutrition in raw than they do on kibble. Added benefit of raw is that they are grain free. Dogs don’t have a necessity for grains, white potatoes, corn, soy, etc. One of my girls is allergic to all things poultry (anything with feathers) so I avoid all of those.

Many people start their puppies right on raw after a couple of weeks being home. Usually when you bring a puppy home it’s best to keep them on their same food for a couple of weeks that they were eating at the breeder. Theory being that they are stressed enough going home with a stranger to a new environment with no familiar scents, missing litter mates, etc. But then you do a slow transition as if you were transitioning from kibble to kibble. Initially you may find that the puppy has some diarrhea but that will pass. What I did was purchase a product from The Honest Kitchen called Perfect Form and while I was transitioning them to raw (good for transitioning any foods really until they get healthy enough to transition without issues) I would add the recommended dose to each of their meals. Gets rid of the diarrhea almost instantaneously. At least that’s been my experience with the product. I no longer feed dehydrated foods because to me they’re not strictly raw. Not crazy about freeze dried either.

Commercial raw is more expensive than kibble but you’ve already been feeding ZiwiPeaks which is an expensive dog food already so it shouldn’t be too shocking. I believe raw is much healthier therefore you save a ton of money at the vet which makes up for the more expensive diet.

• This reply was modified 11 years, 5 months ago by Dori.

[DogFoodie]

Hi Laura,

These are some tips that were sent to me by the company when I first transitioned my dogs to Darwin’s, a commercial raw. They’re ideas specific to their product, but you might find some of them useful.

You can try these tips if you haven’t already (singly or in combo):

1. Adding cheese or canned food is usually a good trick to start with. Also adding spices can increase interest.

2. You can feed Darwins very warm. You can either float it in its bag in hot water or, at least to start, cook it a little on the stove or in the oven. This will release some of the fat molecules in the meat and hopefully overcome some of the veggie smell. Also put just a small amount in the bowl. No sense wasting food and also a small amount might be less intimidating. Add more if your dog eats the first offering.

3. Mix either straight ground meat or some healthy table scraps into the Darwins. Some people find that mixing ground meat into the Darwin’s at a ratio of about 30-50 percent warm Darwins with 70-50 percent fresh ground meat for a few days will convince their dog to start eating Darwin’s.

4. At first only feed the meat variety that your dog is used to eating. Also, it seems that many dogs take to the turkey and chicken faster than to the beef. It might be the smell of the meat itself or it might be that the beef contains bone meal instead of ground pieces of bone and some dogs don’t like the smell of bone meal. Also, I think the red meat variety smells more of organ meat than do the chicken or turkey. Unfortunately the veggie smell is the first noticed smell and it is the same in all Darwin’s varieties; so dogs who didn’t like their first meat variety might think that all the Darwin’s is the same since it all smells the same. That’s when using trick 3 is helpful to get them started by cutting the percentage of vegetables and, thus, reducing the smell.

5. Warmed chicken or beef broth poured over the food to make a soup or stew sometimes works, if your dog will eat a very wet food. Some do not like soup.

6. Make sure your dog is good and hungry and don’t feed anything else if the Darwin’s is refused. Just try again next meal. . Easier to get a child to eat broccoli if he or she hasn’t had access to McDonalds for the past few meals.

7. Cook the food like a meat loaf (325 for 30 – 40 minutes or so) and start there. You can mix in raw Darwin’s with the crumbled cooked loaf slowly until you are transitioned. Or mix the crumbled loaf into the food that your dog is used to eating and then transition to raw once you have convinced him/her to eat it cooked.

8. Adding Green Tripe to our meals is an excellent idea for notoriously picky eaters. It is highly palatable, and considered a “superfood” for dogs. We do offer Green Tripe in 1lb packages, and can be added to your standard order any time.

[Honeybeesmom1]

Hey Akari. You’ve decribed my Chi. to a T! I’m 99 percent sure Bentley is allergic to fleas.
Honeybee also has a problem w/ pollen and grass – but his main problem is fleas. I put him on Darwins for months and no change in his hair loss, fleas and itching.

I’ve put him on THK Thrive for months then Zeal for months, Merrick canned for a few wks, then Nature’s Logic kibble for a few wks, then NL canned for a few wks, home-cooked, Pure Balance canned for a few wks, Wellness canned for wks, 4 health canned…NO change w/ his red skin. And all the while he was on all of that diet change…he still had one thing…fleas.

Every 2 days his belly gets sweaty and smells like an old wet dirty sock. Even 2 days after a bath. I bought Virbac Ecto-soothe for $20 from my vet that kills fleas, ticks and lice.
But I think a bottle of $3 dish soap would do the same.

I flea comb him probably 10 times a day and have a glass of water w/ dish soap in it to throw the fleas in.
I have sheets over my furniture ( to catch flea eggs) that I take off and wash in hot water, dish soap and essential oils every 2 days.

I have hardwood floors that I vacuum and mop everyday. I HATE to put the flea drops on them – so I was doing things naturally which was not working.
I bought Advantage and put on all pets…and 2 wks later fleas are back.

First thing I did this morning…was flea comb him – and he had a flea. I bet that one flea bit him 50 times all night. My life’s mission right now…is to kill every flea I see. lol
I’ve even treated the yard w/ DE.

Yesterday I pulverized some oatmeal in my magic bullet and mixed in some warm water and let that sit on him for a few minutes. Rinsed w/ cool water as that soothes his skin.

He’s only 5 lbs..but keeping fleas off him is as hard as keeping them off an 80 lb dog.
I also flea comb the other 2 dogs just as much. I’m in Louisiana and it’s hot & humid in the 80s and 90s now. And we always have problems w/ fleas here.
Good luck w/ Bentley…I know it’s hard.

[Linda S]

I’ve been feeding Blue Ridge Beef since Dec’13. I’m looking to switch to a more balanced brand so I don’t have to add all the ingredients to make it balanced. I have 4 dogs and go thru 7lbs per day of Blue Ridge. Does anyone have an opinion on Blue Ridge?? I am now looking at either Darwins or Steve’s Raw (Primal is more expensive) since all the nutrients are in there and I can assume it’s balanced like they say. I like the idea of Steve’s as it is in nugget form and easy for when I have a petsitter and easier to weigh out amongst my 4 different weights.

[Raffaele C]

Commerical: Darwin’s. It has ground bones in it.

[Dori]

Raffaele C. Do you feed your dogs Darwin’s only or do you use other commercial raw foods? Thanks,

[Raffaele C]

I feed both my dogs Darwin’s. It’s great because it gets delivered to me every 3 weeks and stays frozen everytime! I have done a ton of research of dog nutrition and what’s best and I have decided that the next best thing to homemade is Darwin’s. The ratio from meat to vegetables is really good for providing a balanced diet for dogs. Both my dogs took to this raw diet very easily and have loved it ever since!

[Dori]

Darwin’s and Hare Today are exceptional choices. IMO you can’t go wrong. I use both in my rotation for my three dogs. Both companies also have great customer service and are always available to answer any and all questions.

[patvl246]

Would really like to know if these 2 brands are recommended,
“Darwins” and “Hare Today Gone Tomorrow” I use these raw products to feed my 240 lb English Mastiff. I want him to be safe and to eat good food. I also want to know that the more than $350 a month I’m spending on his food is a top quality food. Thanks

[neezerfan]

The ones I like are Nature’s Logic, Fromm’s Gold, Whole Earth Farms, Evo, NV Instinct and Ziwipeak. Also Darwin’s.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Yes – RMBs can most definitely be fed daily. My dogs get a ground red-meat based meal in the a.m. (I make my dogs’ meals from scratch – this is when I add items such as vegetables, fruits, yogurt, supplements, etc.) and in the p.m. they get poultry RMBs and some sort of offal (i.e. a turkey neck with a couple turkey hearts or a chicken back with a few chicken gizzards). RMBs are great for the teeth and also the joints as they’re high in glucosamine and chondroitin. Just make sure to feed an RMB that is an appropriate size for your dog because you want to minimize choking risk. The RMB should be larger than the dog’s mouth – my dogs are large (65-75 lbs.) so they only get large RMBs, I wouldn’t feed them chicken necks. For small dogs, however, chicken necks are great.

Both of these articles by Dr. Becker have some good information on selecting bones:

http://healthypets.mercola.com/sites/healthypets/archive/2010/05/19/caution-bones-can-kill-your-dog-find-out-which-ones-are-safe.aspx

http://healthypets.mercola.com/sites/healthypets/archive/2012/05/09/bone-supplements-for-pets.aspx

Also – if I’m not mistaken, it’s been awhile since I’ve ordered from Darwin’s – I believe Darwin’s actually sells duck necks. Duck necks are larger than chicken necks but smaller than turkey necks – they’d probably work out well for most small to medium sized dogs.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi zolicylus –

Supplementing a raw diet with items such as those suggested above – RMBs, sardines, oils – will not result in the components “digesting at different rates.” Why would a chicken neck digest at a different rate than ground chicken?

In fact, it’s very beneficial to supplement any diet with healthy fats such as coconut oil and sardines, as Sandy mentioned. Coconut oil offers many benefits – it has natural antiviral, antibacterial and antifungal properties and may help improve skin and coat health. More info here.

Darwin’s does not add a source of available omega 3’s (DHA/EPA) to their foods so it would actually be advisable to feed sardines (or another fatty fish on a regular basis). The only source of omega 3’s in the Darwin’s recipes is flax. plant based omega 3’s (with the exception of algal oil) contain omega 3’s in the form of ALA. ALA is a a short-chain fatty acid that is, essentially, a pre-cursor to long chain omega 3’s DHA and EPA. It is DHA and EPA that the body utilizes and because ALA is poorly converted (in most cases less than 10% actually gets converted) it’s necessary to feed foods naturally rich in long chain omega 3’s (EPA/DHA) such as fatty fish, algal oil or cage-free eggs.

Feeding RMBs in conjunction with a balanced ground raw diet (such as Darwin’s) will provide the dog with the dental benefits they miss out on when eating ground food.

• This reply was modified 11 years, 6 months ago by Hound Dog Mom.
• This reply was modified 11 years, 6 months ago by Hound Dog Mom.

[zcRiley]

Supplementing a raw diet (especially one of the best like Darwin’s) is not a good idea. Different types of foods digest at different rates, so tossing in a bit of this and that will unbalance their digestive tracts. Stop counting calories and instead monitor your dogs’ muscle growth & energy levels. You must feed more Darwin’s to get them to a healthy 12 lbs. Increase the Darwin’s per meal, when they get to 12 lbs. you decrease and maintain. There’s nothing quick & easy about feeding a pet. Darwin’s opened pouches are good in the fridge for 48 hours. Throw the pouch into a well sealed glass container like a large mason jar or a rubber sealed food container.

[Raffaele C]

Both my dogs are on a raw food diet (Darwin’s to be exact) and I need to increase their calories by about 100 to get them to their ideal weight of 12 pounds. I could give them more of the raw food, but I am trying to avoid having to have open packages of raw meat in the fridge. Right now I just split one pack at each meal time between the two of them and then I can just through the pack away. Quick and Easy! To give them each 100 more calories I wouldn’t need a whole other pack so I would have to store part of it in the fridge.

Anyways, I was doing a ton of research and thought about just adding some homemade food items like eggs or spinach or quinoa to supplement them and get to 100 calories. I was also considering giving them a vegan kibble but Darwin’s diet is already well balanced with meat and vegetables so I believe they are getting all their necessary amino acids and vitamins. Can anyone help with some fresh suggestions to supplement their current diet? Or should I just increase their current raw diet?

[neezerfan]

Darwin’s, Nature’s Logic canned, Nature’s Variety Instinct canned, Fromm pate style canned, Ziwipeak canned.

[DogFoodie]

Darn it! I posted a response, but it disappeared. I hate that! I’ll try again.

My Golden, Sam, just turned two and he has some food intolerances. He can’t have fish in any form, garlic (apparently) or chickpeas & lentils. He’s eaten a lot of foods that he did great on, once; but, when I feed it again, he reacted. When he’s exposed to something to which he’s intolerant, he develops a red inflamed right ear that quickly turns into a yeast infection in that same ear. The chickpeas and lentils give him horrible gas and loose stools. He also doesn’t seem to do well on foods with lots of fruits and veggies, like Orijen and Wholesome Blend. He does well on Darwin’s raw for short periods of time at a stretch, but I think you’re looking for kibble. I have to pay attention to his protein, fat and carb levels and know what ranges he seems to work best within. I recently started him on Udo’s Choice DHA blend, an omega supplement, and the poor thing had gas so bad it woke me up at night after just one teaspoon per day for a week. There are so many foods I’d love to try him on, but wouldn’t dare; but, it’s very important to me to have multiple foods for him, so I keep trying. So far, the only food he can eat without reacting is MS Lamb. I’m getting ready to try him next on Nature’s Variety Instinct LID Duck next and have my fingers crossed. My Cavalier can eat most anything, but it does seem that chickpeas and lentils cause her to become constipated. She doesn’t have anything that I consider to be “true intolerances.”

So, that said, foods that I trust and that Sam has eaten, at least once, and did well on are Canine Caviar, Horizon Legacy (my Cavalier eats Amicus sometimes which would be great for your little guy), Nature’s Logic, Dr. Tim’s, Brother’s Complete, Wellness Core, Earthborn Holistics and NutriSource. Of these, I most wish I was still able to use the Horizon and Dr. Tim’s.

If it weren’t for those intolerances, there would be many more he’d have eaten. One food I like and tried a couple of different formulas for Sam is Victor. I was disappointed the Victor didn’t work, it’s a great product and the price is a huge unexpected bonus! A couple of foods I wish I could use for him are Go!, Now Fresh, Farmina and Annamaet, but those all contain triggers. I’ve considered fermenting some veggies to add to his foods because I often wonder if it’s the cabbage in the MS that’s one of the reasons he does so well on it. Commercial raw and canned foods are a completely different story ~ are either of those options for you?

[Nicole V]

Hi Marie,
I’ve tried Darwin’s Choice frozen raw, and Nature’s Variety frozen raw without success. Then I tried Stella and Chewy’s FD because I got some samples at a pet store, and she was fine. Since then, she’s been getting S&C regularly as a snack and Dr. Harvey’s green tripe treats. That’s as raw as we are right now. 🙂

[Shawna]

Great advice BCnut!! 🙂

Hi Kayley L,

BCnut is absolutely correct. Kibble is the absolute WORST thing you can feed a dog with kidney disease. My dog was born with kidney disease, diagnosed at age one and will be eight years old next month. She has been on HIGH protein raw her whole life. Much higher than 30% even. Her raw diet (I rotate between proteins and brands) ranges from 45 to 54% on a dry matter basis.

The original research suggesting protein was problematic was actually done on rats not dogs or cats. Later research, done on dogs, has disproven the original research but for some reason vets cling to this original research. Nutritionist Mary Straus has some different sources discussing the protein myth on her page here http://www.dogaware.com/health/kidneyprotein.html

Phosphorus can be a probelm at any stage of the disease but it isn’t always a problem in the earlier stages. Audrey, in her eight years with kidney disease, has never been on a lower phosphorus diet. Mary lists generally accepted amounts of phosphorus in the diet for the different stages of the disease on this page. http://www.dogaware.com/health/kidneydiet.html#start

When digested, proteins break down into amino acids. The body uses those amino acids to make antioxidants (glutathione), enzymes, new cells etc. What the body doesn’t use ends up as blood urea nitrogen. How well the body uses the amino acids in any particular protein is called bioavailability. I noticed last night that Dr. Foster’s and Smith website has a good explanation of protein bioavailability. They write
“Can I tell which proteins are better than others?
Not all proteins are created equal, and some are better for pets than others. Every protein source contains different levels of amino acids and each protein is different in its ability to be broken down into amino acids. The ability of a protein to be used by the body and its amount of usable amino acids is termed biological value. Egg has the highest biological value and sets the standard by which other proteins are judged. Egg has a biological value of 100. Fish meal and milk are close behind with a value of 92. Beef is around 78 and soybean meal is 67. Meat and bone meal and wheat are around 50 and corn is 45. Things like hair and feathers would be very high in protein but would be down at the bottom of the list for biological value.” http://www.drsfostersmith.com/pic/article.cfm?aid=459

Removing chemicals in the environment that have to be cleared through the kidneys can help too. These chemicals may not be harmful but as another thing for the kidneys to clear they still can be problematic. Anything that could be inhaled or get absorbed through the paw could be potential problems. Giving clean (filtered) water can be very important too.

Mary has some really good info on her site if you get a chance to read through it all. Nutritionist Lew Olson of b-naturals.com also has some data on her site (along with a couple recipes). Darwin’s has a high protein, lower phosphorus raw diet that was formulated by Dr. Barbara Royal DVM if interested in raw but not wanting to have to prepare it.

There’s so much more that you can do as well. Let us know if you are interested in the additional info.

Thanks BCnut! 🙂

• This reply was modified 11 years, 7 months ago by Shawna.

[Naturella]

I agree that a lot of people seem to have issues with Blue Buffalo, and this is not good. However, there are the few (apparently) whose dogs have done well on it. If I were to be asked to make a recommendation to someone about dog food, I would base it off of personal experience and research, and regarding Blue Buffalo, I can say that Bruno did wonderfully on the Wilderness Puppy for about 4 months, until I decided to rotate him out of it, just because rotating foods is good, not because of issues. I would say that I will keep Wilderness in our rotation because he’s done well on it, and because I know of 3 other dogs (in 2 separate households) who also have been feeding Blue (one constantly, which is not that great, the other in rotation) and their dogs have been ok too. Nonetheless, I can say that I have read about many who experience issues with it, but I really believe that it comes down to individual dogs and their guts for the most part. It is important that everyone closely monitors their dog and watch for reactions, then act accordingly. I have never had to contact the company, so I don’t know how their customer service is.

And I think the above goes for just about any food I have fed, or read a lot about. Still, no matter how much I read about foods, I will have to feed it to my dog personally in order to form my own opinion based on experience. There are many many foods I want to feed based on profile alone (and some forumers’ or friends’ opinions of them) – Wellness Core, Nature’s Variety Instinct, Wysong Epigen or Wysong 90, Victor (feeding a bit of it now, but want a full bag to really test it out), AvoDerm Trout (just that one, lol), Taste of the Wild and Canidae Pure (yes, yes, I know about Diamond and the recalls), Merrick Grain Free, Orijen (drool) and maybe Acana, Back to Basics (got a bag in the cabinet waiting its turn to be opened), Fromm, Darwin’s, The Honest Kitchen (when I’m rich, lol), etc. I don’t even know if Bruno’s lifetime will allow me to rotate through them once, let alone twice, lol.

So yeah, that’s my 2 cents.

[Wanda F]

Thanks for your great tips! I’ve checked into Darwin’s and a afew others but as much as I like Brewer, I don’t know if his monthly food bill should exceed the monthly payment on a new Lexus. That being said, I’d still like the best for him and feel I could do raw from my kitchen and fill in with Nutrisca or Orijen( for vitamins, minerals and probiotics) but in some of the “expert research” I’ve found they say feeding both is not beneficial. Something about time in digestion being different. Sometimes all of this information is overwhelming..I grew up with farm dogs and fed them whatever; they lived long and don’t remember them ever being sick. Are all of these health issues, with our canine friends, recent? Both of my last 2 dogs have had very sensitive digestive systems and allergies.

[RescueDaneMom]

If I had to rank commercial foods in order of preference, I would say raw first, then dehydrated/freeze-dried, then kibble. Primal and Stella & Chewy’s make complete and balance raw formulas. Darwin’s is also complete and balanced plus they ship right to your door (you can’t buy it in a store). For dehydrated food, I like The Honest Kitchen. Grandma Lucy’s is similar but freeze-dried instead of dehydrated. If you want kibble, then I agree that Orijen is one of the best kibbles you could feed.

I feed my Great Dane (also a rescue) a 50/50 mix of The Honest Kitchen and commercial raw. I try to rotate as many different brands and proteins of raw as I can. I use Primal, Stella & Chewy’s, Tucker’s, Vital Essentials, and Genesis Raw (local to FL). I do keep a small bag of Orijen Adult on hand for when I forget to thaw out raw or I’m in a hurry.

If I were you, I would try to locate a small, independent pet store or pet boutique. They tend to carry the quality kibbles and also raw/dehydrated foods. They will usually special order things for you as well.

I hope this helps and good luck!

[InkedMarie]

Have you thought of either ground raw (Hare Today, My Pet Carnivore and Reel Raw) are the places I know of to order from or pre made raw (Darwin’s & Primal are two I like)?

[Marilyn E]

YEAH, DARWINS. it’s a shame not to see it on the recommended list. We’ve fed it for 2 years–high quality ingredients that look as good as the ground meat we buy at Whole Foods. The packing dates are never more than a month old, sometimes only a week or two. Once a month the UPS truck rolls up to the garage and leaves our standing order of frozen, dry ice packed food. What could be more available than that?!

[jakes mom]

Bobby dog, Jake likes beef liver. I have not found beef heart yet but he’s eaten everything else so I’m hopeful.
I thought the usda site was very helpful. I was surprised that they mentioned raw food, would have expected it to be food that people usually eat, but I searched “calories raw chicken” and it came up. It’s the usda nutritional database if you look for it. You can search a category like poultry or type in a specific like chicken.
No time to check the ABC thing yet. We have 3 techs out on sick leave right now so I’m working a lot of extra hours. Sounds interesting,tho. Just what I need as I really don’t think I’ll go completely raw. Can’t afford the complete raw like Darwin’s and don’t want to get involved in buying supplements and trying to concoct a healthy combo. Will count on good quality dog food to supply the specifics and add in some raw. Certainly a bit of heart or liver is a better treat than most of those things in the store!

[pfeiner]

I have fed Tripett – I believe I got it from Chewy.com, cans are easy. The Honest Kitchen and Darwin’s sells frozen green tripe and they ship.

[patvl246]

Our 3 year old English Mastiff (235 Pounds) has been on a raw diet all his life. We love him dearly and wouldn’t change a thing. I wonder how some of the raw feeders are doing with the expense of raw. We use Darwins, Hare Today, a local provider in NJ called Big Dog (Dehydrated Food) and we’ll buy chicken and some organ meat from our supermarket. Our guy eats 4 to 5 pounds a day, even a 4 pound daily diet is over $10 a day. How do you guys do it?? Do you supplement with canned or kibble, is the diet homemade?? HELP

[neezerfan]

Farmina! It’s now available from Chewy’s. And Darwins… no brainer.

[neezerfan]

I’ve had my rescue dog for about 5 weeks now. His vet exam was excellent, bloodwork, fecal, urinalysis, dental all good. Vet said he needs to gain weight. He was 12 lbs 5 weeks ago, should be 13-14. So I used the dog food calculator on this site and have been feeding him enough calories for a highly active 13 lb dog plus giving lots of treats. I weighed him yesterday, 11 lbs! I realize it’s a different scale so could be some discrepancy so I’m going to the vet this week to weigh him there, but I’m trying to get him to gain and he ends up losing? WTH? He is very active, he’s a jumper, pacer and runs a lot with my other dog. My current rotation is Farmina kibble (it’s a winner!), Darwin’s, NV Instinct frozen raw, Whole Earth Farms, Nature’s Logic and By Nature canned. I know Darwin’s can be a little on the lower calorie side so I’m making allowances for that. His poops are a much bigger volume than my other dog’s are. My poor guy is so skinny! His ribs are prominent.
My plan is to order Abady’s granular to add into his food, maybe make some satin balls when I get the time. But here’s my question: do you think he’s more likely to gain if I add in more carbs? What he’s getting now is high protein, do you think that’s just not working for him for the weight gain. If more carbs are the answer, I’d rather give him home prepared additions to his food.
TIA for any advice!

[theBCnut]

Hi jakes mom

You freeze things that might have parasites, They are killed by freezing. Bacteria are not. I always freeze pork, wild game, and fish.

Hi Bobby dog

Other than shooting for an approximation of a whole animal, the thing to remember with cats is their need for taurine in their diet. Taurine is water soluable, so when you freeze meat then defrost it, it is important for the cat to get the fluids that seperate out, because it may have taurine in it. Hare Today has a supplement to add to meat and bone, but I always buy whole prey grinds for my cats, because they don’t like the supplements. I also tried Darwin’s cat food, but mine didn’t like the texture.

[Kenneth N]

I am not far from his facility and have purchased from him a few times. Very friendly person, but I have special need diet for one dog. He got sick and it took two months to correct his digestive system. Other 3 dos were sick also. I will stick to Darwins and Hare Today because the shippin is less than vet visits.

[InkedMarie]

Dori,
Glad you’re feeling better, also glad you talked to James. If I didn’t suspect Boone may have an issue with the fruits/veggies, he’d be on Darwins too.

[Dori]

Caroline. Thank you so much for posting. Good luck on Saturday when you re-test. I’ll be praying for you and your dog. I’m also praying that it was some supplement, or too many different supplements that have taxed or toxed her liver. Anyway I’m trying to cover the basis and, thank God, though Hannah’s vet is not a holistic vet, she seems to be taking the same steps that Dr. Becker and other’s that I’ve been researching since I found out the results on Monday. Just Monday?? It seems like longer than that. Anyway, more testing tomorrow and I’m hoping like your dog, after a month or so leaving any and all supplements out that except for the milk thistle and the Denamarin that things will get back to normal levels. If it’s not something worse than I can only assume it’s a supplement or too many that I’ve given. I have an auto immune illness and tons of allergies myself since about 1997 everything is fragrance free and dye free in my home. No candles burning, no fragrance sprays for bathrooms, nothing at all. Backyard has no lawn, all flower beds, so no week killers or anything like that.

Funny that you should mention Darwin’s prescription diet. I spoke with James at Darwin’s this afternoon for quite a while about Hannah and what’s going on. I’ve printed out all the forms, nutritional analysis, etc. on the LS diet. He’s given me his direct line to give to Hannah’s vet and also said he’d gladly send the vet some samples if she wants to see the food herself. I told James I will not put her on any food the vet sells, Hills, SD, Royal Canin, whatever. Not after all the good she has derived from her present diet. I refuse to put her on crap diets for the remainder of her life regardless of how long or short it may be. Anyhow, he was so great and made me feel so much better. I have really been a totally wreck since Monday morning when the vet called with Hannah’s liver levels skyrocketing and out of control. After my conversation with him it was the first time all week that I felt like I could take a deep breath and actually breathe.

Oh, and more great news. He gave me the name and phone numbers of three holistic/integral vets that he knew personally and from different conferences in my area. So it was a win win conversation.

Thanks again for your post. I don’t feel quite so alone. I’ll be thinking of you on Saturday and will post everyone along the way about Hannah and next testing of x-ray and ultra sound and Cushing’s test.

Everyone here has been keeping me a little saner and a lot less weepy. Thanks everyone from the bottom of my heart I love you all.

[RescueDaneMom]

Hi Dori,

I am going through something similar. I did regular bloodwork on my Dane in February and his liver enzymes came back high. His AST was 150, ALT was 720, and Alk Phosphatase was 267. Everything else was normal. They put him on milk thistle and Sam-E. We are rechecking his bloodwork this Saturday (after 6 weeks on the meds). I was giving him white willow for his arthritis and we’re hoping that is the cause and nothing more serious. White willow (like aspirin) can cause liver damage with prolonged use. He was drinking more before (but not excessively). I’ve notice in the last few weeks that he’s not drinking as much so hopefully things are looking up.

I’ve been doing a lot of research into diet as well in case his liver values are still high on this recheck. Darwin’s makes a prescription diet for dogs with liver issues that is made with white fish. It’s pricey (6.95/lb I think) but I’d do anything for him.

-Caroline

[Shawna]

Okay, friend in California — let’s call her T.. T rotates (you know me and rotation) between the Preference and Steve’s and adds raw antelope, buffalo, beef etc. These are all no bone in commercial products she gets from a local puppy boutique in her area.

The premix she was using (that he dog was reacting to) is called NDF2. Just realized it has wheat brand and germ too. For some reason I was just remember the oats??? http://www.volharddognutrition.com/natural-diet-foundation-2/natural-diet-foundation-2.html She had heard about the diet on a Yahoo group and a premix was appealing to her so she could rotate the meat. But she wasn’t rotating the NDF at all.

She feeds raw green tripe once a week, fasts the dogs once a week and makes her own kefir using raw milk and kefir grains (it is legal to buy raw milk in California). She feeds a REALLY good diet. After reading a previous post about some of the other symptoms you are seeing in Hannah however, I highly doubt the elevated liver values are due to detoxing like was the case in T’s dog.

If it ends up being the liver you might want to look in to Dr. Dodds liver diet using white fish and potato. White fish creates less ammonia which in turn is less stressful for the liver as it is the liver that has to convert the ammonia to urea. There are also supplements that can be considered — such as Sam-e and milk thistle in therapeutic doses, Standard Process Hepatic Support and so on. I have a contact at SP that can help with product recommendations if wanting to go that route.

You might want to also consider a phone consult with a nutritionist or a holistic vet once you have an official diagnosis. Treating cushings will be somewhat different than treating liver cancer. Mary Straus, Dr. Becker, Dr. Dodds, Naturopathic Vets Dr. Jeannie Thomason or Kim Bloomer, Dr. Peter Dobias, Dr. Christina Chambreau, Dr. Martin Goldstein, Dr. Barbara Royal (Darwins) etc might be some to consider speaking with. Jacqueline at Answer’s might have suggestions for diet or vets to speak with too? I could contact her on your behalf. I’m guessing you’ve already determined the diet for cushings can be high protein, lower fat/purines and carb.

Dr. Becker has several video/articles on cushings if that is the diagnosis or if you want to get info early before a definitive diagnosis. She talks about typical and a-typical cushings as well as causes (she, and others, feel early spaying can cause a-typical as an example) and dietary prevention (which you were doing by feeding lower carb, moisture rich.

[Dori]

Hi Shawna. Thanks so much for seeing my post and responding.
All four of Hannah’s liver values was sky high. Last year at this time of year for her physical only one value was high and that was only 1 or 2 points over the high normal so they didn’t mention it because they didn’t think it was any big deal. This year is total different. This year is also when I switched all the girls to all commercial raw for ever meal. I was occasionally rotating in THK Zeal and/or Preference. Katie developed intolerance to alfalfa so I stopped THK. (Katie is the poop eater and though I’m vigilant about being the human pooper scooper, if I’m out and my husband just opens the door and lets them out in the yard. Doesn’t pick up after them. Too be fair, he has macular degeneration pretty bad and probably really doesn’t see it too pick up). Their diet has been Answers, Darwins, Stella & Chewy’s, Primal Pronto, Vital Essentials. As you know all very high proteins, higher in fats than I would like but they all seem to be that way. I did try Natures Variety for a bit but I didn’t like anything about it so that was just one bag between the three of them.

Your friend in California. Does she only rotate between Honest Kitchen Preference and Steve Brown’s Dinner Mix and if so, what proteins, fruits and veggies does she add? Did she ever go back to any raw meals solely or always the pre mixes with protein. Why Premix with oats? Do you know what brand or what it is?

Yesterday was a really really bad day for me. I tried keeping myself together while Hannah was around but I was near hysterical and stressed beyond belief yesterday. If I wasn’t crying I was shaking. I spent almost all day on the computer yesterday trying to digest as much info as I could. The more I read the more nervous I got. I dropped Hannah off this morning (after fasting 12 hours) and just picked her up. They’ll have results back tomorrow afternoon. They were just checking liver at today. They did not want to test for Cushings today because they felt that we needed to take one step at a time. All four doctors in the practice spoke with me today and explained that the Cushing’s test needs to be given medication first (steroids???), and because of the fasting then feeding fatty food and then rest and retesting for the liver test that felt that would interfere with true bloodwork for Cushing’s test and wouldn’t be accurate. Sounds logical. So one step at a time. Depending what they find with results of tests for both liver and Cushing’s they’ll do a liver ultrasound. Best case scenario it’s something that they can reverse levels with food and Sam-E type prescription product. Worse case scenario could be tumor or cancer of the liver. At her age it would be a matter of keeping her comfortable. She’s certainly too old for surgery, chemo, radiation or anything else that goes along with it.

They did tell me no more rabies vaccines for her (unfortunately she had one on Friday during her yearly physical) and definitely no more HW preventative, Sentinel, for her either.

So I’m interested in knowing more about your friend in California and what she fed along with the premixes. That’s the one thing I want to work on immediately. I certainly don’t want to have to put her on one of their prescribed foods so I’m trying to get a jump on getting and ordering whatever I need to change her diet to. This has come as a shock to me. All the issues with her I could justify with other problems she has like loss of hair would be hypothyroid. No jumping on furniture and trembling loss of hind leg muscles and weakness I attributed it to mid spine degenerated discs. One thing I do know is that she is drinking enormous amounts of water.

I’d appreciate any guidance you can give me.

[NectarMom]

Did your Vet say anything about the beginnings of Pancreatitis? This is also a cause for Elevated Liver enzymes. Raw is a lot higher in fat than kibble and some dogs do well on it and others have issues with the higher fat. 2 of mine did not do well on it and developed Pancreatitis and one of my other ones just threw it up several times until I did not offer it to her anymore and the other did fine so 3 out of 4 it did not agree with and to be honest I was worried about them getting bad bacteria in which 2 of them ended up doing from Raw. I still have some in my outside freezer which I need to throw out. I don’t think I will ever find the perfect food for my girls and it is very frustrating. Maybe when I retire I can strictly home cook for the ones I have left or newly acquired ones if that happens. Oh and my girls were on Darwin’s for 8 months before anyone developed Pancreatitis.

I do hope it is nothing serious with your baby girl. keep us posted with the fasting results.

• This reply was modified 11 years, 8 months ago by NectarMom.

[Dori]

Nectarmom. I just got off their site and you are absolutely right. The duck is listed as having the lowest fat. I don’t understand it. When I read your first post about Darwin’s I immediately thought it was the duck but now I’m not so sure. Darwin’s is a food that I’ve been using but I think until we get things cleared up with Hannah and her high liver levels I’ll sparingly feed it to the other two cancel my subscription with them. It has the highest protein of all the foods I feed.

[Dori]

NectarMom. That’s so odd that they would say that to you because when I placed my first order with Darwins they told me the fat to protein ratio would be too high. I had been telling them about my dogs. It didn’t matter to me because I told them one of my dogs can’t eat any foul so I wouldn’t be ordering it anyway. Anyway, Duck is high in fat.

[NectarMom]

Melissa, This is what was told to me by Darwin’s customer service and they even list their Duck meals as their lowest fat. I always knew Duck was a fatty meat but I figured Darwin’s must know something that I didn’t with their duck.

[NectarMom]

My girls were on Darwin’s for 8 months with no issues then one of the reps for Darwin’s said we could introduce Duck and when we did 2 of mine got Pancreatitis and hundreds of dollars later we dropped Darwin’s off our menu and went with Hare Today and one of mine kept throwing it up so I just gave up on Raw. I don’t want anymore of them sick and I do not need anymore vet bills.

[Dori]

Are you still feeding Brothers? When I first started with the raw feeding I was concerned about the fat content but it doesn’t seem to bother them in the least. I’ve been feeding them Primal, Answers, Stella & Chewys, Darwins. I used to feed non raw THK but Katie became allergic to alfalfa so I had to stop that which was too bad because I really like the company. Where can I see pics of your dogs? My girls are my avatar and Hannah is the pic on my Facebook page. Dori Hassett on Facebook.

[NectarMom]

Glad to hear your babies are much better. After we resolved the water issue the red staining from licking went away but we still have eye staining and they scratch and lick their feet every now and then which drives me nuts. I edit pictures that I take of them on face book because of the horrid eye staining. We tried Darwin’s Raw among other Raw avenues and 2 out of 4 got pancreatitis so I am very afraid of trying raw again. Though I still worry about the eye staining and do not know for sure if it is environmental or food. It is so hard to tell but I know during Winter we still had feet chewing but not as much.

[Valerie N]

Me too, I hope Darwin’s makes it.

[InkedMarie]

Dori,
I’m a huge THK fan..you know they had a recall last year, right? I’m okay with it, it was parsley, they took care of the issue & I’m excited to try the new products they have coming later this year. I generally trust every company until given reason not to. Regarding commercial raw, Bravo had a recall as well. I’m using what’s left of Darwin’s for Ginger and Boone eats grinds from Hare Today.

[Dori]

Have you tried Primal raw. Really good company and great food. Don’t forget even feeding raw you should be rotating brands as well as proteins. I use Darwins, Stella and Chewy’s, Primal and Answers as well as others that don’t right now come to mind. Oh, I use THK Zeal though it’s not raw, but a really good food as well as a good company. Human grade and produced in a human grade facility.

[Marianthi]

I would also like to nominate Darwin’s Natural Selections. I first began feeding my puppies Stella & Chewy’s but switched after trying Darwin’s. I felt their food was much fresher than Stella & Chewy’s, which to me has always had a freezer-burn appearance to it.

[theBCnut]

You can’t go wrong with their offer for first timers. I’m not sure but you may find that Darwins is lower calorie than Primal, so you might have to feed a bit more than you were. For a raw food, Darwin’s is known for being lower fat than most, if not all, of them. A lot of commercial raw foods use current labeling rules to cover up how much fat is in their product.

• This reply was modified 11 years, 8 months ago by theBCnut.