Gemma is the sheltie that I posted about. She is coming home this Saturday. She is 9.5yrs old and was spayed and had a dental done yesterday. My poor girl. She had FIFTEEN, yep, 15, teeth removed. I have no idea yet if she has any yet (the foster mom didn’t want to look in her mouth yet). I didn’t know what kibble to put her on but now I’m not going to bother.
I ordered a bag of Grandma Lucy’s Pureformance chicken today, will be here tomorrow and I will also try her on some Darwins but I am going to try Steve’s Real Food as well, as it is cheaper. I’ve never seen it and won’t til I order the first time!
Hello
I started feeding commercial raw a year and a half ago after finding this site. I have used NV, Primal,Darwin’s and Stella and Chewys. When I rotated back to Darwin’s in November, my poms would not touch it. I bought Dr. Becker’s book and the e books from Whole Dog Journal so I could make my own. The issue I am having is getting my female Pom to eat the vegetable mixes. I made the ones in Dr. Becker’s book and she will eat the meat but if a add just a little veg mix she refuses. I also tried THK Preference. She prefers NV raw over all the other brands. Should I rotate in NV and not force her to eat the homemade with the veg mixes. How often would she need the NV? I also add NL All Food Fortifier. Would that be enough? I just started ordering from Hare Today and they all like the grinds I have tried so far. I also have Brothers on hand in case I am short on time since I work at a hospital and have to go in at strange hours with short notice. Any help would be appreciated.
Susan
hi Mom2Cavs (is it Jan??)
thank you for responding! It turns out the in state place that carried Answers does not any longer so that is not an option. My dogs didn’t like the NV and Primal is more costly than Darwins and I’d have to drive over an hour, one way, to pick it up.
What can you tell me about Steve’s?
A feed store not too far away is selling Answers; HDM likes it but have you fed it? Anyone else? What about Steve’s real food? Anyone feed that?
I’m looking at all options, beside Darwins. Mine love it and I think it’s the best pre made out there but it’s so costly. We have a new dog coming this weekend and I’d really like to have all three on a pre made for one meal.
pugmomsandy:
Thank you for sharing your tips. I only have 2 small shelties each weighs 15 lbs, but still want to go with all home-made. If I only grind chicken, I suppose I can go with a cheaper grinder but I want to provide variety. So what is your opinion on Dr. Becker’s supplement recipe? Have you tried it yet? I’m thinking I should follow it and use HDM’s green supplement mix. My dogs have flaky skin, I think there is something missing from their current diet: 1/2 Darwin’s, half home-made. I use grass-fed red meat for home-made since Darwin’s red meat is grain-finished.
Late in replying but the only thing that Boone has done a little over the last month that he hasn’t done since being on Darwins/Brothers is paw lick. Not bad but he had stopped for awhile, was back to it and haven’t noticed it this week, knock on wood
HDM,
I really like your whole food supplement recipe, what do you recommend if a dog is allergic to turmeric? I don’t know if mine will but I read somewhere that a dog was allergic. I have Dr. Karen Becker’s recipe book and will use the recipes as a guide, but really want to avoid any synthetic vitamins in her book. That’s what holding me up in doing all home-made. I’ve been feeding Darwin’s but want to it on my own. I don’t like the pre-mixes from THK or Sojos or any dehydrated food. I prefer all raw and fresh veggies. I can get grass-fed beef, lamb and raw wet bone meal from a local farmer, I’m going to visit some local butchers to see if I can get quality poultrys. Once I can get everything together, I’m ready to start doing it on my own.
I was doing some figuring yesterday, at the Hare Today site. I think it would be $12 more to get their mixes/grinds than Darwins so I guess I’ll stick with Darwins. No sense having to repackage to save $12. I was kind of disappointed.
Good morning all and thanks to those who responded. I apologize for taking so long in coming back to my own thread!
A few questions. Some of you have seen that we have another sheltie coming in the next couple of weeks. She’s in foster care but I don’t have a whole lot of info on her. She is 9 or 10, apparently healthy except for her teeth. She is in desperate need for a dental and after looking at her mouth, she has some extractions coming. She will have the dental and get spayed this week or next, then coming home with me. So, here is the rundown on the dogs:
Boone-almost 7, allergy and/or yeast issues. He will stay on Darwins in the morn and Brothers in the
afternoon.
Ginger-2.5yrs old, currently eating THK in the morn (Darwins a couple times a week) and Dr. Tim’s grain
inclusive (Pursuit) in the afternoon. She has no issues outside of frequent pooping on anything except
the same regimen as Boone but due to cost, can’t continue with that so that is why we’re trying the
Pursuit
Gemma-new gal coming. She currently eats Purina ONE chicken & rice senior. Even with her icky mouth
that must hurt, she eats dry food. I have THK Zeal here and Wellness Core’s salmon topper. Thinking
I should mix either the THK or canned with Ginger’s kibble. If I see any signs of arthritis or anything,
I will put her on Brothers since it’s grainfree.
So, what do you smarter than me DFA friends think I should do for probiotics and enzymes? Should they all get both? Kefir….where do you buy that? Is that something you order? Is it a pill or powder?
There is a semi local (in state but not around me) breeder of Dogues who also sells raw. Prey model raw people can buy their stuff but she also makes her own pre made. I think you have to just add supplements. I am going to seriously look into this because there is a good chance we will be adopting a sheltie very soon, going to meet two of them tomorrow at the foster home. I’d love to have all on raw but cannot afford to do so with Darwins.
I actually do prefer a raw diet, and when I got him as a puppy, I started him on one. I still am having great difficulty finding one to suit. My favorite raw is Darwins, they are just amazing, but so far I haven’t been able to find a formula that works for him, which makes me wonder if it is not food but as you said an environmental one. I have tried an alternate diet, but I was unaware of the 3 month time line, perhaps that is where I have gone wrong? I have not given enough time between foods so I don’t have a realistic idea if it is food or not. I found a kibble (blech) that is kangaroo and red lentil, he seems to like it, it is me that doesn’t like to feed kibble. Perhaps I should keep him on that until say the end of March and then start reintroducing Darwins raw? Does that sound reasonable? And for what it is worth, thank you so much for your reply, it is difficult to feel so confused about the right thing to do. He isn’t a pet, he is family! 😉 I will look at the website you suggested in the morning. Thanks again!
As alot of you know, I feed Darwins pre made. I’m curious what other raws people think are high quality ones
I thought I just posted this but it didn’t show….my dogs use http://www.thewholisticpet.com/products/canine-product-line/digestive-support/wholistic-digest-all-plustm.html. I’m almost out of it and would like to try the Mercola probiotic
http://probiotics.mercola.com/probiotics-for-pets.html. Do the dogs also need a digestive enzyme?
Ginger eats The Honest Kitchen in the mornings, Darwins every 3 days. Dr. Tim’s grain inclusive in the afternoon. Boone eats Darwins every morning and Brothers Allergy in the afternoon.
Hi skippy5761 ~~ just read your post to HDM so sorry for the delayed response. They now know that quality protein does not cause kidney disease. The original studies that set this myth in motion were actually done on rats. Rats DO get kd from high protein diets – dogs and cats do not.
High protein diets (quality high protein) actually have been shown to help the kidneys not hinder them. For this reason, I’ve been feeding my Audrey (pup in my avatar pic) a high quality raw diet since she was weaned. Audrey has had kidney disease from birth. She had symptoms of excessive drinking and urinating even before weaning. She was officially diagnosed when she had her 1 year blood work done. We modified her diet and rechecked blood work every 3 months for a year and when it was all said and done I had her back on her normal diet with added probiotics and prebiotics (which help trap nitrogen sparing the kidneys from having to filter it (referred to as the “nitrogen trap”). I used to home prepare the foods my dogs ate but I have less time right now so I use commercial raw. I use a combination of Darwin’s, Bravo and premixes with meats I supply right now. Audrey is now 6 and 1/2 years old and in VERY GOOD health.. She is not on any prescription medications (I give her nutraceuticals though). She never has to go to the vet for anything and has never once required sub-q fluids etc.
In my opinion, feeding kibble (any kind at any protein level) is far more damaging to the kidneys than a high quality, balanced raw diet. Audrey is living proof. She’ll turn 7 the end of June 2013.
Weimlove ~~ for clarification, The Honest Kitchen foods are dehydrated versus freeze dried. I personally like freeze drying better but I like the lack of potato in The Honest Kitchen and that they are guaranteed to use human grade foods. That being said, I think it is as important to rotate the starch etc as it is the proteins. I rotate through the premixes from See Spot Live Longer, Honest Kitchen, Grandma Lucy’s and Sojo. I will use others as they become locally available.
When using a premix, unless it specifies, you don’t need to add liver and shouldn’t add bone. Everything is in the premix to balance the meat you add. If you want to add liver I’d just do so in the form of treats. I dehydrate organic liver for my pups and they LOVE it. In a home made diet you only add 5% of the diet as liver (and 5% as other organs — heart, kidneys etc) so liver treats should be ample to an already balanced diet.
I also use complete and balanced commercial raw products in my rotation. I like Darwins and Bravo Balance. Bravo also has some meat only options that are great to add to the premixes (salmon, buffalo and venison are the options available).
Micah was showing signs of leaky gut as an 8-9 week old puppy with IBS and some other issues. I started switching his food immediately to improve his nutrition, but unfortunately, I didn’t really put 2 and 2 and 2 together until he started showing signs of systemic yeast. I got him switched over to Brothers Allergy Formula and raw(Darwin’s and homemade) about as fast as I thought I dared. And at just shy of 3 months on the new diet he is doing much better. He was having hot, red, itchy skin, seborrhea, inflamed intestines, mucousy diarrhea, red irritated eyes with discharge, as well as some other stuff. Really the only thing I wasn’t seeing was that he didn’t yet have the yeasty ears or skin sores. Fast forward 3 months, he has had brief periods of all those same symptoms, but they quickly resolve, he has had his ears wax up a couple times, and now he has a single skin sore.
I think it would be helpful to all of us that have a dog with this kind of issue, if we have a place to find out what is a normal detox versus it might be something else. So please share your detox story including what helps make it easier.
AnonymousInactive
I had been using various Merrick grain free and canned Tripett, but now I’ve moved on to Weruva Human Style. It’s excellent. Human grade meats, free range, no hormones, etc. I was buying it locally but it was really expensive. I’ve found it on Amazon considerably cheaper with free shipping. They have kibble in the morning (Brothers, Acana grain free) topped with canned Weruva. One can split amongst three dogs. Dinner is Darwins raw. They love it all and seem to be thriving.
Hi Dr. Mike,
I would be more inclined to call them dry. Having the moisture removed to me qualifies them as dry. I would even go so far to say that they aren’t even truly raw foods as they have been processed.
I guess if we keep analyzing, then where does that leave the HPP processed foods, Natures variety and Primal. I know not all of Primal’s are HPP, but that would be an additional process done to the food.
Raw frozen, by that are you meaning Darwin’s and Bravo, etc? I would say they are raw products, they retain their moisture, and aren’t exposed to heat. They would retain their optimal nutrition.
Maybe rate these foods separate from each other? A category for freeze dried, dehydrated, etc.
Given that these are all processed to some extent, are they truly raw? I know it’s splitting hairs, but Darwin’s adds vegetables, so that would be a process. Bravo and Primal also add them to certain lines. I guess, the bottom line is what the “accepted” definition of raw is. For me, it would be the moisture rich foods with the barest amount of processing.
Alexandra –
As far as the “chunks” sold on Hare Today, my only experience is with the “Rabbit Pieces” (the larger version of the chunks). I would say they’re likely not as balanced as the grinds. With the grinds you know you’re getting an evenly mixed ground prey animal – with the chunks it’s more of a surprise (at least in my experience). As it says in the description “bone included, may include heart, liver, lung and kidney.” I’ve ordered the rabbit chunks 3 or 4 times and sometimes there were only one or two little pieces of organ in the bag, sometimes there was quite a bit. However, considering you know your dogs are getting one meal a day that’s completely balanced (the Darwin’s) you’d probably be fine with the chunks – if there was a little too much or too little organ meat or bone it wouldn’t be a huge deal.
The whole prey animals really aren’t that bad. I started out with the dressed quail and skinned rabbits and finally got the courage to move to the real deal – feathers, fur and all. If you want to try it, I’d start with the whole dressed quail – very low gross factor.
As far as slowing Dante down…not sure if the chunks would do it. Gertie was a fast eater, I started using a portion pacer and it worked like a charm – it now takes her over 5 minutes to finish her meal. Mabel on the other hand – I’ve never seen anything like it. Looking at her eat you’d honestly think she hasn’t eaten in a week. I use a portion pacer and she still somehow manages to finish her meal in about 30 seconds flat. When I give her gizzards and hearts she just swallows them whole, no chewing. So if Dante is as bad as Mabel chunks may not even help him – unless they’re huge chunks lol
Hi Alexandra!
Good question. Nutritionally speaking – as long as both contain appropriate amounts of muscle meat, organ meat and bone – they’re the same. However there are some pro’s and con’s to both. RMBs and chunks of meat more closely mimic the consumption of a whole prey animal and provide the dog with dental benefits that ground meat doesn’t. RMBs and chunks of meat are much less likely to be contaminated with bacteria such as salmonella (although with a healthy dog, this shouldn’t be much of a concern). RMBs and chunks generally have a cheaper price per pound (versus ground meat) as well. The downside is that cutting up your own meat is definitely more time consuming and I also find that it’s much easier to combine veggies and supplements or a pre-mix with ground meat. I personally feed ground in the a.m. with either a pre-mix or veggies and supplements and RMBs and “chunks” of meat (whole gizzards, hearts, livers, etc.) in the evening. Because you’re feeding the Darwin’s for on meal a day you could certainly add your supplements to this and feed chunks and bones for the other meal, then you’d be getting the best of both worlds.
Hi Alexandra –
Looks good to me! Because you’re feeding the Darwin’s for one meal every day I don’t think there’s any need for you to be overly concerned about supplements. All the hare today grinds have the appropriate ratio of muscle meat, organ meat and bone – so no need to worry about calcium to phosphorus ratios and organ meat amounts. And the fish oil and green supplement will be great for a little extra nutritional assurance.
Hi HDM,
That is a great menu! I am still feeling my way through this process, so here is what I have:
I feed the Darwin’s naturals for one meal, a different protein everyday. Dante eats a pound per meal and Booker eats 1/2 a pound per meal.
The other meal is a a change up between various hare today grinds, Llama, Goat, Duck, Turkey, Beef, and very occasionally Chicken. Booker can’t tolerate Chicken for two many meals in a row.
With the grinds, they get eggs twice a week, one tbs of coconut oil every other day. Fish oil on the opposite days.
I add minced garlic two times a week.
A tbs of organic Oikos yogurt three times a week.
I was adding Tumeric, but it seems to set off Dante, he gets inflamed from it.
I am going to order some of the Mercola Super Green for the whole food supplement.
How balanced am I?
Ordering chunks from my pet carnivore this weekend instead of the grinds.
