[Carly H]

Dream bones are made of plastic like the kind they use for dog bowls, melamine. Plastic! Dogs have died from obstructions and cancer and more! Don’t give your dog anything from china ! Covid , dog treats nothing from china !

[aimee]

What is “beefcheek”? In the cooking world, beefcheek is the masseter muscle, the main chewing muscle from the cheek of the cow. Beefcheek rolls for dogs are obviously not muscle, the rolls are white, muscle is red, so what are they made from? Beef cheek rolls may differ slightly from brand to brand, but generally speaking they are the full thickness hide and fat from the face and possibly the neck of the cow. They are untanned cattle skin, AKA rawhide.

The fact that beefcheek is a type of rawhide seems to be information that the pet industry is trying to hide. One store owner told me the roll was muscle, the customer service dept. of the imported chew, in response to an e-mail inquiry, said the same. But the chew was labeled collagen, the protein in skin, When I asked customer service to explain the discrepancy, they stopped responding. At a different store, I was told beefcheek was the inside lining of a cow’s mouth, but when informed that this portion of the cow was relatively small, thin and frondlike, they said they really did not know what it was. Another said it was the “entire” cheek, but when asked if there was bone, muscle, fat and skin in the product, said they were unsure. One thing clerks from stores claiming not to sell rawhide, yet selling beefcheek, agreed upon was that there was no hide/skin in the chew. They would be wrong on that point. It appears they have been misinformed by marketing geared towards selling the product.

So how can beefcheek rolls be marketed as “hide free” or “rawhide free”? I looked to my state feed control official for answers, this is how I understand it, The FDA regulates consumable chews, including rawhide, as food, but states usually do not regulate the labeling of chews. With no regulation of the label, and no AAFCO definition for the word “rawhide”, it appears manufacturers define words like “hide” or “rawhide” in such a way as to allow them to claim their product, made from hide, is not hide/rawhide. For example, “rawhide” is partial thickness skin and “beefcheek” is full thickness skin, therefore beefcheek is not rawhide.” This seems to be a common tactic in the pet industry and why other chews made from rawhide, like collagen chews or corium chews also claim to be hide/rawhide free. And while most beefcheek brands seem unwilling to disclose that the product is skin, some do. Lennox, for example, lists the ingredient in their beefcheek rolls as “beefcheek skin” HydeOut brand reports it is made of “skin above the neck”

Knowing what happens at the slaughterhouse and tannery is the key to understanding beefcheek. The hide is removed at the slaughterhouse and sent to the tannery. At this point the hide has hair on it and a fat layer attached to the bottom of it. At the tannery, the hide is cut, leaving two flaps, one at each end of the shoulder area. These flaps are called the “cheeks” of the hide. Some tanneries trim the “cheeks” off the main hide before tanning. If these pieces are trimmed before hair removal, the beefcheek roll manufacturer may dehair with a different method than a tannery would use. If they are trimmed after dehairing, which I suspect is more common, beefcheeks may receive the same treatments as other rawhide chews. In either case it seems this is usually done before the fat layer is removed. Therefore, most beefcheeks are full thickness skin with attached fat. You can find an explanation of beefcheek sourcing in the comments section of this youtube video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q0A8PpBrdcQ Taking a look at so called Rawhide Alternatives – today:Cheek Rolls

It has been claimed that beefcheek rawhide chews are more digestible than traditional rawhide chews This appears to be marketing based on wishful thinking for the purpose of making a sale. Rawhide digestion models in the lab have reported “digestibility” up to 99.5% for rawhide, but it can vary based on the digestion model used and the size of the pieces tested. After inquiries to multiple companies, I only found one that actually tested the digestibility of their product in dogs. That company said they would expect traditional rawhide to have the same digestibility as their product. I’d agree! And because beefcheek skin, like other skin-based chews will not fall apart when swallowed it would be expected to have the same risk of choking and obstruction as any other rawhide chew.

Bottom Line: Beefcheek rolls are made of untanned cattle skin and are a form of rawhide with the same pros and cons of other rawhide chews. They are marketed as a rawhide free product, which in my opinion is a shameful misrepresentation by the pet industry. Pet parents deserve to know what it is they are offering their dog.

[anonymous]

Yes, they (wolves) die young and suffer greatly from broken teeth, infection, bowel obstruction, ,etc.
They also suffer and die from malnutrition and parasitic diseases. Alone, deep in the woods.

Bones are dangerous for dogs, anyone who is educated in veterinary medicine knows that.

[anonymous]

@ Alice B

Thanks for the feedback.
Glad your dogs are doing well and that you are listening to your vet.
You may enjoy this book that will be available soon “Placebos for Pets?: The Truth About Alternative Medicine in Animals”
/forums/topic/cellbio-another-dubious-lab-test-from-hemopet-and-dr-jean-dodds/#post-146014

PS: Large breed dogs are just as susceptible to GI problems/obstructions/blockage as small breed dogs due to raw diets/bones.
Your vet will confirm.

• This reply was modified 6 years, 3 months ago by anonymous.

[haleycookie]

Ideally a raw fed dog will poop maybe once a day and it will be very small. I follow a working raw fed gsd on insta and he poops once a day and it’s about the size of a baseball maybe smaller. As opposed to kibble fed dogs who poop bulky poops twice sometimes three times or more a day. “Normal” poop for a dog should be small, dark in color, and segmented. The dog should have no issues passing it. If they are constipated and straining then bone content could be too high which in a raw diet could be corrected by adding more organ meat. Just as soft poos can be combated with more bone.
Bone is natural for a dog to eat. Obviously don’t feed weight bearing bones as they can crack teeth or split or shatter and cause obstructions. Bone ground up or whole bones like necks, backs, or non weight bearing bones are ideal.

[anonymous]

“when I fed K9 Natural freeze dried I added lots of warm water & even then they had nugget poops”

I would assume that this product does not agree with your dogs and I would stop feeding it.
For example it contains “Ground Beef Bone”

This could be the cause as ground bone can cause gastrointestinal upset, constipation and sometimes obstruction/blockage. I would be even more concerned for small breeds, although these things can occur with any size dog. Confer with your vet. I would stick with the Royal Canin if it agrees with them…no need to switch around (imo)

[anonymous]

Yup, supervise all you want, it doesn’t prevent bad stuff from happening.
Broken teeth/infection, may not notice it right away. Bowel obstruction that doesn’t show up till a few days later, yes, finely ground up bone can cause this.

/forums/topic/antlers-a-safe-alternative-to-bones/#post-98128

[anonymous]

Stop the raw immediately and take the dog to the vet, TODAY. This has been going on for more than a week. She needs treatment by a veterinarian, not the internet. BE HONEST ABOUT THE RAW WITH THE VET.

Give us an update so others will learn from your unfortunate experience.

Whatever you are feeding her does not agree with her and is causing her harm. She may have an obstruction especially if you have been feeding bones and such.
Or not, but something is wrong.
Even cooked chicken has a lot of small sharp bones in it, especially if you haven’t carefully chopped it up.

http://skeptvet.com/Blog/2018/02/actually-raw-chicken-likely-does-lead-to-paralysis-in-dogs/ excerpt below

“Dr. Brady can call me a dupe or lackey of Big Pet Food if he wants (and I suspect he will). The truth is, I am open to the idea that fresh food, even raw food, might have health benefits. However, the evidence is clear that raw has risks, and it is up to the proponents of raw diets to prove there are benefits that make these risks worth taking. Not with anecdotes, faulty logic about what is “natural,” rhetorical assaults on the pet food industry, or mere passion. They should prove it with data, with reliable evidence derived from appropriate scientific research. Until they do so, there is no reason for pet owners to take the risks they deny exist for ourselves, our pets, or our families.”

Yet Another Study Shows the Real Dangers of Raw Diets for Dogs

Read article and comments, use the search engine there to look up topics for more articles.
http://skeptvet.com/Blog/category/nutrition/

Nothing is being sold at that site, no dog food, no supplements, no books, no membership fees.

[anonymous]

I would contact a veterinarian asap as how to proceed

PS: Grinding bones does not make it safer, they can still get an obstruction.

[aimee]

Hi Linda,

I don’t think there are any perfect chews. There is risk in everything and what may be suitable for one dog isn’t for another.

That said my preferred chew items are food stuffed kongs. For my own dogs I’m not a fan of vegetable chews like carrots or dehydrated potato. Of the available animal based options I choose flat rawhide “chips” larger then the dog’s mouth and trade them out when the dog can get it into the mouth.

I shy away from bone shaped rolls etc as they can break teeth.

I understand that many are uncomfortable with rawhide. Certainly if large pieces are attempted to be swallowed it can result in obstruction. In regards to all the bad press regarding chemical containment, after learning that the same “lime splits” used to make rawhide are used in human food production I’m comfortable with the processing agents used in production and the steps taken to remove them.

As with dog food companies ,there are certain rawhide manufactures with whom I’m comfortable and others that I’m not.

[anonymous]

Thanks for posting this warning.

The same thing can happen with bones, any hard object really.
Bowel obstruction.

[anonymous]

I would stop feeding any and all bones. I would seek veterinary care immediately to rule out stomach/bowel and colon obstruction/perforation (medical emergency) and get some advice as to how you should proceed with diet.

[Spy Car]

Rosemarie, the raw mackerel bones are very soft and really aren’t an issue. I feed mackerel frequently, and I’m very risk-averse when it comes to bones.

If you want to maximize “the chewing” of raw mackerel my suggestion is to serve the mackerel (or mackerel cross sections) frozen.

If you feel uncomfortable serving bone-in mackerel, they are not difficult to fillet.

Problems with BARF include:

1) Feeding too much bone. Bone at 20% does not meet the universally recognized need to have a 1.2 : 1 Calcium to Phosphorus ratio.

2) Grinding meats and bones unnecessarily.

3) Too many “recreational bones” that pose risks to teeth and obstructions.

4) The inclusion of non-essential carbohydrates in the form of fruits and vegetables Dogs have higher vitality when they are fueled primarily by energy from fat (with protein secondary). Carbohydrate metabolism interrupts fat metabolism and is a negative for canine health.

Also, understand that some raw fish contains an enzyme called “thiaminase” that disrupts a dog’s ability to use thiamine. IMS Pacific mackerel has “thiaminase” while Atlantic mackerel does not.

The smart way to feed raw fish IMO is to do it is a spaced out fashion (as “thiaminase” is said to dissipate quickly) as opposed to feeding daily. Daily feeding of thiaminase-rich fish can cause serious problems.

Best,

Bill

[Spy Car]

Hello Jan,

I strongly believe that raw feeding is the healthiest diet for dogs, but it is not a panacea.

The greatest benefit would be to reduce the weight of your lab. Reducing (or eliminating) carbohydrates via a raw diet (or mixed diet) helps. Dogs burn fat very efficiently and while it seems counter-intuitive, fat metabolism helps with weight loss.

The pork femur bones, sadly, are a poor choice, as a bone source. They are too hard to the “eaten” and therefore pose a hazard to teeth and risk obstructions id swallowed in large pieces. Bone-in chicken pieces are far preferable.

On a budget, you’d spend less if you find whole ingredients and feed according to the Prey Model 80/10/10 (meat/soft-edible bones/organs) formula.

Chicken feet are a good source of edible bone and do contain a lot of glucosamine. Couldn’t hurt. But weight loss is the critical issue.

Aim to slowly reduce weight. A raw diet promotes a lean body type. Getting rid of the carbs is key.

Best,

Bill

[Spy Car]

[Content in violation of our commenting policy has been removed by the moderator]

Back to your problems. There are a number of improvements you could (should) make.

More towards an 80/10/10 ratio (meat/organs/bone). Try to make as much of the meat portion “whole” meat rather than grinds. Beef heart and pork leg (or shoulder) tend to be procurable cheap cuts.

Fat is to be embraced as a great source of energy (the ultimate source of energy for dogs). Because a canine digestive system needs to re-adapt to fat metabolism after a dog eats a carbohydrate-rich diet, it is wise to limit fat initially (during the transition). And to then work up to full-fat meals. Fat is very beneficial for dogs and not something to avoid or to restrict, except during a “transition.”

“Lean” meat is not a positive in the long term. Dogs thrive on fat metabolism. Fat is essential.

Don’t grind the meat. Let the dog chew and tear whole pieces. Much better for dental health.

The number of organs in your typical meal is too high. Stick with 5% (of the total) as liver and 5% “other” secreting organs (such as kidney, melts/spleen, sweetbreads, etc). Together that’s 10% organs as the total.

The biggest problem is with the bone. Forget giving beef or turkey bones and instead turn to bone-in chicken or similar soft edible bone. You want bone sources that will be well chewed and digested and that minimize the risk of tooth damage and/or obstructions.

Beef bones and turkey bones are poor choices.

Eating soft edible bone will keep stools ideally firm. There is no reason to feed pumpkin if the edible bone content is kept in the proper target range. Chewing soft-edible bone will also keep teeth sparkling white. Do not grind the bone. Feed soft-edible bone that the dog can chew.

The USDA website has bone percentages for common chicken pieces that can help you when figuring the 80/10/10 ratios.

Good luck.

Bill

• This reply was modified 7 years, 6 months ago by Mike Sagman. Reason: Text removed by moderator

[anonymous]

Ground up bone can cause gastrointestinal upset and bowel obstruction, sometimes partial, never-the-less
painful.

I am sure the pro raw folks will chime in.

I hope your dog is okay.

Best of luck. Sincerely

PS: The title of your thread implys that your dog has had diarrhea for 2 weeks!
That is what I responded to.

[anonymous]

It is irresponsible for anyone other than a veterinarian that has examined your dog to give you veterinary advice.

Don’t waste time on the internet.

Please go to the nearest veterinarian asap, raw food (especially bones) is well known for causing gastrointestinal upset and bowel/colon obstructions.
An x-ray is the only way to rule out.

Sorry that you had to find out this way, best of luck.
Give us an update.

[anonymous]

Bowel obstruction, shows up as calcified sludge on the x-ray, on 2 occasions.

Symptoms: constipation, straining, PAIN, in example: panting, crying, unable to relax, agitation. Dog would scream if you touched her abdominal area.
Chalky feces, bloody feces, diarrhea, gastrointestinal upset.
Comes on gradually.

Broken tooth, times 2, not a clean break, required extractions under general anesthesia, both times “Raw Meaty Bones” No thanks!

[anonymous]

Please reconsider the raw diet, it is not worth the risk. I hope these articles help. All written by veterinarians (The Angell article is written by a veterinarian that specializes in nutrition)
Discuss with your vet. Raw food is well known to cause gastrointestinal distress and obstructions. Ask any veterinarian that works in an emergency clinic.

https://www.mspca.org/angell_services/choosing-the-right-diet-for-your-pet/ (excerpt below)
Raw diets are another popular option on the market today. Studies have shown that 20-35% of raw poultry and 80% of raw food dog diets tested contained Salmonella. This poses a health risk for your pet, but also for humans. This is especially true for children or immunocompromised adults, whether exposed to the raw food directly, or the feces of the pet eating the raw food. Additionally, there is increased risk of other bacterial infections and parasitic diseases when feeding raw diets. And the bottom line is there is no reason to believe raw food is healthier than cooked food.
The numerous dietary choices for your pet can be daunting but if you pick an AAFCO approved food made by a manufacturer with a long track record, odds are good that you will find a suitable food for your pet. Most of the large pet food companies employ full time veterinary nutritionists and have very high quality control standards. That is not to say that a small company cannot produce nutritious and high quality food, but you should check out their website if it’s a company that is not familiar to you. Take the time to research, and ask your veterinarian if you have specific questions or concerns.
Please understand that this article is meant to provide basic dietary guidelines for healthy pets. If your pet has specific health issues, then your veterinarian may make specific food recommendations, which may include special prescription diets.

http://skeptvet.com/Blog/category/nutrition/ (excerpt below)

“There is evidence of risk in feeding raw, including infectious disease, parasites, and injury from raw bones. There is no scientific evidence, only anecdote and dubious theories, to demonstrate any benefits from feeding raw”.

[pitlove]

Hi Patty-

I think thats a really great question you are asking, but unfortunetly difficult to answer, so I will give you pros and cons.

Pros (from what I’ve heard) from a raw diet is healthy teeth, small stool, evidence of help with allergic dogs. Cons are pathogen exposure, potentially not balancing the meals correctly, possible GI obstruction from bone content.

Weight loss can be tricky. The key is to burn more calories than what is being consumed. If she is not active and is still getting extras in her diet (like the pork pattie and other treats), but isn’t getting enough exercise to burn off those calories, she will not lose weight even on a raw diet. And yes, I’ve seen overweight dogs on raw diets. Raw isn’t a cure all for weight control. You, the owner, still have to put in the work and get the dog exercising. Walks are good, fetch in the yard is good. We use something called a “flirt pole” with my dog to burn calories. The big thing is going to be no more treats! Also, you will need to make sure that everyone in your household is on board with trying to help her lose the weight. Explain to them that she can live up to 2 years longer if you help her lose weight and yall want to keep her around for as long as possible.

[anonymous]

Tried that, 2 visits to emergency vet for gastrointestinal upset, pain, bowel obstruction. Visit to regular vet for broken tooth (not a clean break) required an extraction under general anesthesia.
Plus it’s a myth that bones clean teeth, not true and not worth the risk.

/forums/topic/dog-not-digesting-bones-properly/#post-91245

https://www.fda.gov/ForConsumers/ConsumerUpdates/ucm208365.htm?s_cid=w_c_PetHealth_cont_001

PS: About the nail clipping, some dogs tolerate it, and with other dogs it is best to have a vet tech do it every couple of months. Usually they don’t charge that much if you are a regular client.
I find if dogs are walked/run on pavement at least 20 minutes per day it will decrease the need and frequency for nail clippings.

[anonymous]

Panting could indicate pain/anxiety. I would get to the vet for an x-ray asap. Bowel obstructions can occur with bone, even finely ground up bone.

Per the search engine. /forums/topic/dog-not-digesting-bones-properly/

[anonymous]

Like I said before, homeopathic views are different from traditional medicine (veterinary included).
There is nothing to debate.
However, I have been to the emergency vet, paid the bills and decided offering bones to any animals that are under my care is not worth it.
PS: They were all supervised when the emergency situations occurred, it only takes a second to crack a tooth. Gastrointestinal obstructions can take a week or two to develop. It’s not pretty to watch an animal suffer.
It’s not 1955, they have veterinary orthodontists that are just waiting for you folks that give bones to their dogs to come in for treatment for fractured teeth.
It can run anywhere from $1000-$3000 for an uncomplicated emergency surgery.

[anonymous]

Informative article from: Drs Foster and Smith Pet Education dot com
excerpt below

Antacids/Phosphate Binders (Maalox, Milk of Magnesia)
Veterinary & Aquatic Services Department, Drs. Foster & Smith

Generic and Brand Names
Aluminum Hydroxide: AlternaGEL,    Amphojel
Aluminum Magnesium Hydroxide: Maalox
Calcium Acetate: Phos-Ex, PhosLo
Magnesium Hydroxide: Milk of Magnesia
Calcium Carbonate: Tums
Type of Drug
Antacid
Form and Storage
Powders, suspensions, and capsules
Store at room temperature unless otherwise specified by the manufacturer.
Indications for Use
Prevention and treatment of stomach ulcers and esophageal reflux (heartburn), reduction of hyperphosphatemia (increased amount of phosphorus in the blood) in patients with kidney failure.
General Information
FDA approved for use in large animals in veterinary medicine. It is an accepted practice to use these medications in small animal medicine. Available over the counter, but should always be used under the direction of a veterinarian. Because of the newer, easier to dose medications available such as cimetidine, aluminum magnesium hydroxide is not used as frequently for stomach ulcers and esophageal reflux. It is still used to reduce phosphorous levels in the blood in patients with kidney failure. Before use, consult with your veterinarian and carefully check over-the-counter (nonprescription) medications for ingredients that may be deadly to pets.
Usual Dose and Administration
Consult your veterinarian. Duration of treatment depends on reason for treatment and response to treatment. Pets generally do not like the taste making it difficult to get the pet to take the products.
Side Effects
Depending upon the product, may see lack of appetite, constipation, or diarrhea. May see electrolyte imbalances in some patients due to the levels of magnesium, aluminum, sodium, and potassium in the products.
Contraindications/Warnings
Do not use magnesium containing products in animals with kidney failure.
Use with caution in patients who need restricted amounts of sodium or potassium in their diets.
Use aluminum containing products with caution in patients with an obstruction in the stomach emptying disorders or obstruction.
Use calcium or aluminum containing products with caution in patients with kidney disease.
Do not use in pregnant or nursing animals.
Long-term use can damage the kidneys; aluminum-containing products can cause muscle weakness and thinning of the bones.
Drug or Food Interactions
Due to changes in the acidity of the stomach, emptying time of the stomach, or by chelation of the drugs, all oral medications may be affected. If must give multiple medications, separate dosages by at least 2 hours.
Tetracycline antibiotics may not be absorbed if given with antacids.
Antacids may decrease the absorption or effects of chlordiazepoxide, captopril, chloroquine, cimetidine, corticosteroids, digoxin, iron salts, indomethicin, isoniazid, ketoconazole, nitrofurantoin, pancreatic enzymes, penicillamine, phenothiazines, phenytoin, ranitidine, and valproic acid.
Antacids may increase the absorption or effects of aspirin, dicumarol, flecainide, quinidine, and sympathomimetics like ephedrine.
Do not use calcium containing products in patients using digoxin/digitalis as abnormal heart rhythms may result.
If using to decrease high blood phosphorus levels, give with meals.
Overdose/Toxicity
May see electrolyte imbalances which can cause weakness and heart arrhythmias. Long-term use of aluminum-containing products can cause muscle weakness, thinning of the bones, and aluminum toxicity. Long term use of other products can damage the kidneys.
Summary
Antacids should be used under the direction of a veterinarian for the treatment and prevention of stomach disorders and to lower high phosphorous levels in animals with kidney failure. Consult with your veterinarian if your pet experiences muscle weakness, constipation, diarrhea, or lack of appetite while taking antacids.
  

[anonymous]

Well, homeopathic views differ greatly from science based medicine. So, don’t expect your veterinarian to support your decisions. Most will tell you that they don’t think raw food is worth the risk of gastrointestinal obstructions and broken teeth (bones)
You can use the search engine here to find more information. Good luck.

[anonymous]

Best of luck. Oh, and make sure you know where the nearest 24/7 emergency clinic is located and how long it will take you to get there.

http://www.embracepetinsurance.com/blog/harmful-side-animal-sourced-dog-chews (excerpt below) click on link for full article.
Cow hooves and pigs ears are what the name implies. 
Marrow bones are from the long bones of cows and pigs.
Rawhides are the skin of cows. 
Antlers come from either deer or elk. 
So what do you think bully sticks are?  Think about this one.  Give up?  They are bull penises! Hmm.
There are some dangers with all of these items. All of these have the potential and can cause intestinal obstructions, but equally important are the dangers that come from the way these are processed.  They are first soaked for hours in a caustic lye solution to digest the undesirables off the skin and then to remove the lye the skin is then soaked in bleach solution.  Sounds yummy. Many of the rawhides come from China where they have been known to use arsenic compounds to preserve them. 
There is no regulation of rawhides or pigs ears.  You really have no idea where these come from.
Marrow bones and antlers cause many broken teeth.  A good rule of thumb is if you don’t want me to hit you in the kneecap with it, your dog should not be chewing on it. I can not tell you how many expensive extractions are the result of dogs chewing bones.

[HoundMusic]

new here and in a bit of a panic. i’ve been feeding raw to all my pets for over a decade with no issues. sadly, my 8-year old siberian husky has had issues eating things he’s not supposed to. he had a blockage where they needed to remove 30 inches of his intestine.

In this situation, I would have to agree with your Vet. Raw might cause more trouble than it’s worth in this instance. Particularly the bones, but also, keep in mind there can be a greater risk of infection with a dog who has just undergone major surgery and could very well have a compromised immune system for a while.

BTW, I was also a very long time raw feeder, but around April/May of last year, an older dog ate a raw pork neck that caused an obstruction. He would have been long dead if castor oil and force feeding him broth had not worked, as I cannot afford such a major surgery. Then, towards the end of the summer, that same dog was diagnosed with osteomalacia, which is basically the adult form of rickets. And I am more careful than most about balancing the calcium:phos ratio and including foods rich in Vit D. I ditched raw for home cooked, and let me tell you. My dogs were pooping out old, stagnated bone fragments for a week after being on a diet higher in fiber and of a very soft, digestible consistency. So there is a risk of blockage, and there is a risk of improper nourishment as well.

There is also some evidence that kibble does actually digest faster than raw:

https://therawfeedingcommunity.com/2015/01/08/digest-this-kibble-may-actually-digest-faster-than-raw/

And besides that, bones are going to give this dog an unduly hard time after having had such a surgery. If I can make a suggestion, crock pot food can be very mushy and is incredibly beneficial for sick or recovering dogs. So, if you don’t want to go the prescription diet route, that might be a better alternative.

Otherwise, Science Diet is not exactly my favorite brand, but I have one with chronic prostatitis (also caused, or at least aggravated, by raw) who can eat nothing but SD Sensitive Skin & Stomach or the lower protein/fat Advanced Fitness formula. I mean it. He even has a hard time with boiled chicken & rice. So don’t entirely rule out SD, because it can work wonders on sick dogs.

Just my 2 cents.

[anonymous]

I would schedule the dental cleanings asap, infection is painful and can lead to all kinds of medical issues. Then when they have recovered, I would gently brush their teeth daily. YouTube has some excellent how to videos.
Be aware that bones can result in GI blockage (even finely ground bone) and broken teeth, anything raw is potentially loaded with bacteria.
Per the search engine here:
/forums/topic/dog-not-digesting-bones-properly/
What more is there to test? Obviously the bones, even finely ground up bone material is causing potentially fatal stomach, colon and bowel obstructions.
/forums/topic/rectal-issues/
/forums/search/bone+obstruction/

Dogs are Still not Wolves: Human Feeding Practices Have Shaped the Dog Genome

PS: If the dog needs emergency surgery (not unusual) caused by these feeding habits, it will cost $$$ whether the surgery is successful or not.

http://skeptvet.com/Blog/category/nutrition/
http://www.fda.gov/ForConsumers/ConsumerUpdates/ucm208365.htm?s_cid=w_c_PetHealth_cont_001
https://www.mspca.org/angell_services/choosing-the-right-diet-for-your-pet/
/forums/search/bones+obstruction/
Hopes this helps

[tides]

A couple of links about the dangers of bone obstruction and/or general dangers of raw meat/dietary guidelines actually doesn’t help very much. I want to supplement my dog’s food, rather than replace the kibble entirely, and I wouldn’t be here if I hadn’t already discussed the option with her vet AND done a fair amount of research myself. I’m looking for guidelines when the vast majority of raw diet/raw supplements discusses chicken and turkey as primary food sources and my pup can’t have them.

[anonymous]

http://skeptvet.com/Blog/category/nutrition/

http://www.fda.gov/ForConsumers/ConsumerUpdates/ucm208365.htm?s_cid=w_c_PetHealth_cont_001

https://www.mspca.org/angell_services/choosing-the-right-diet-for-your-pet/

/forums/search/bones+obstruction/

Hopes this helps

[anonymous]

http://www.embracepetinsurance.com/blog/harmful-side-animal-sourced-dog-chews (excerpt below) click on link for full article.
Cow hooves and pigs ears are what the name implies. 
Marrow bones are from the long bones of cows and pigs.
Rawhides are the skin of cows. 
Antlers come from either deer or elk. 
So what do you think bully sticks are?  Think about this one.  Give up?  They are bull penises! Hmm.
There are some dangers with all of these items. All of these have the potential and can cause intestinal obstructions, but equally important are the dangers that come from the way these are processed.  They are first soaked for hours in a caustic lye solution to digest the undesirables off the skin and then to remove the lye the skin is then soaked in bleach solution.  Sounds yummy. Many of the rawhides come from China where they have been known to use arsenic compounds to preserve them. 
There is no regulation of rawhides or pigs ears.  You really have no idea where these come from.
Marrow bones and antlers cause many broken teeth.  A good rule of thumb is if you don’t want me to hit you in the kneecap with it, your dog should not be chewing on it. I can not tell you how many expensive extractions are the result of dogs chewing bones.

http://skeptvet.com/Blog/?s=bones

Also, you can use the search engine here to look up topics. I am sure that if you Google enough, you will find articles to support your opinions (whatever they may be).
I have found that I get the best results by listening to a veterinarian that has actually examined the pet in question.
I prefer science based veterinary medicine.

[anonymous]

What more is there to test? Obviously the bones, even finely ground up bone material is causing potentially fatal stomach, colon and bowel obstructions.

/forums/topic/rectal-issues/

/forums/search/bone+obstruction/

Dogs are Still not Wolves: Human Feeding Practices Have Shaped the Dog Genome

PS: If the dog needs emergency surgery (not unusual) caused by these feeding habits, it will cost $$$ whether the surgery is successful or not.

[anonymous]

The longer stuff is dead and the more things that are done to it, the more likely it is to be contaminated. Simple enough?
Unless it is cooked first. Consult a veterinarian/specialist for a more detailed explanation.

My dog ended up at the emergency vet times 2 due to finely ground up bone causing obstructions in the intestinal tract.
Another dog broke a tooth (not a clean break) and needed dental surgery (extraction) after gnawing on a raw meaty bone.
Another one had vomiting and diarrhea which appeared to be related to the consumption of raw food (chicken, steak) not ground.

Believe what you want, you already have your mind made up. I am not here in a professional capacity. People are just offering their opinions. Take it or leave it.

[anonymous]

http://skeptvet.com/Blog/category/nutrition/
/forums/search/bones+obstruction/

Hope this helps.

[HoundMusic]

I’m a newbie to these forums, but am no novice to raw feeding – been doing raw in some form, either 100% or as a supplement for about 15yrs now. Since 2014, its been an all raw, prey model type diet consisting mostly of chicken quarters pork meat and neck bones, a variety of organ meats (but mostly beef liver), ground beef, egg yolks, turkey necks and occasional meats like lamb ribs, fish or ground turkey. They also get “extras” and leftovers that amount to a small portion of the diet.

That aside, I’ve been noticing all summer that Toby, an intact male Beagle who will be 11yrs in October, hasn’t seemed in the greatest health, but there was nothing specific I could point my finger at, so I chalked it up to age. Fleas have been plaguing him, which made me further suspect something was wrong, especially after treatment did very little to help.

Over the past few days, the fleas have been back with a vengeance untold, and this morning, out of the blue, Toby came back in from the yard, lay down in a corner, and wouldn’t get up. There were no other symptoms, just a sudden lameness that seemed to pass in a few minutes. But it was very worrying, and he seems to have lost some weight in the past few days, so I decided it was Vet time. That, and in May, he had a partial obstruction from a pork neck bone, and the Vet told me then the only abnormality of the blood test results was “elevated liver enzymes”. So of course, my first thought is possible liver failure going on here :/

It was no fun finding a Vet on Labor Day, let me tell you, but we seemed to get a competent one, for once. I did NOT mention Toby is raw fed, btw. Another CBC was done, and like before, everything came back smack in the middle of normal – except, his ALP levels (alkaline phosphatase) were once again high (@ 228). But with no other signs of liver abnormalities in the blood results, this Vet was as stumped as the first one was as to why it should be elevated, unless it was osteomalacia, which he said was odd in a dog Toby’s age.

When I asked what precisely that was, the Vet told me I already knew it by a more common name. Rickets. Or rather, it’s technically called rickets before the growth plates close, and osteomalacia is the adult version.

I may have emitted an expletive, because how else can a dog get rickets, save for a home made diet that has been lacking in Vitamin D? I haven’t had the greatest luck with Vets in my life, but I was grateful that when I did mention raw feeding, all I got was the Knowing Look, an admonition that Toby would not be the first raw fed dog he’d seen with rickets (!!!), and a prescription for Vitamin D tablets for dogs. He did not try to push kibble on me or say another word about raw… he didn’t need to 🙁

Don’t have the faintest idea where we’re going from here, but Toby is on his Vit D and does not seem to be holding the incident against me. I’ve had my stumbling blocks with raw in the past, which is why I usually limited it to supplementation, but this has to be the worst problem I’ve ever had diagnosed. And honestly, if not for the strain put on his health with the fleas, I would never have noticed anything out of the ordinary with this dog. He seemed perfectly healthy otherwise.

So. Just blowing off some steam at the day’s events, my own stupidity, and thought this might be interesting fodder for other raw feeders. And btw, I am told that bad teeth can be a dead giveaway symptom of rickets, as well, and yet, Toby has the best teeth out of everybody…

• This topic was modified 9 years, 3 months ago by HoundMusic.

[anonymously]

Cow ears would be processed the same way that pigs ears are.

Maybe this article will help: http://www.embracepetinsurance.com/blog/harmful-side-animal-sourced-dog-chews excerpt below, click on link to view full article.

•Cow hooves and pigs ears are what the name implies.
•Marrow bones are from the long bones of cows and pigs.
•Rawhides are the skin of cows.
•Antlers come from either deer or elk.
•So what do you think bully sticks are? Think about this one. Give up? They are bull penises! Hmm.

There are some dangers with all of these items. All of these have the potential and can cause intestinal obstructions, but equally important are the dangers that come from the way these are processed. They are first soaked for hours in a caustic lye solution to digest the undesirables off the skin and then to remove the lye the skin is then soaked in bleach solution. Sounds yummy. Many of the rawhides come from China where they have been known to use arsenic compounds to preserve them.

There is no regulation of rawhides or pigs ears. You really have no idea where these come from.

[Anonymous]

Pet owners and veterinarians have reported the following illnesses in dogs that have eaten bone treats:
•Gastrointestinal obstruction (blockage in the digestive tract)
•Choking
•Cuts and wounds in the mouth or on the tonsils
•Vomiting
•Diarrhea
•Bleeding from the rectum, and
•Death. Approximately eight dogs reportedly died after eating a bone treat.
Above is an excerpt from: “No Bones About It: Reasons Not to Give Your Dog Bones”
http://www.fda.gov/ForConsumers/ConsumerUpdates/ucm208365.htm?s_cid=w_c_PetHealth_cont_001#1

[Anonymous]

Hi, Jan.
I think it took a few days, the ground up bone material tends to harden and get clogged up (sludge like) in their colon and stomach, as long as there isn’t a total blockage it should gradually be eliminated. I think it took a few days, at least 3…she was back to herself in about a week.

Some dogs, especially the little ones just can’t digest the bone material well.
I was only giving my dog a bone or two a week and they were small ones. The stuff stays in their gut and accumulates till it causes pain and discomfort. It happened one time before but it passed so I thought it was a fluke….when it happened again a few days I took her to the emergency vet for an x-ray right away.
Always rule out an obstruction first when you see stomach pain and vomiting,
Anyway, it must be like having sand in your stomach, you won’t see it in the feces, it’s granular. I would give her soft, easy to digest food and add water or plain chicken broth.
And don’t be afraid to give her pain meds as the veterinarian prescribed…..if he didn’t I would call the vet and go pick them up. I’m assuming your dog is still uncomfortable.
If she’s not better in a week (she will be) they might want to take another x-ray to see if the sludge has moved…..but hopefully it won’t come to that.

Relieving the pain might perk up her appetite. I mentioned what medication she got (tramadol and Pepcid), and the diet that agrees with her the best in a previous post. I like Nutrisca Salmon and Chickpea, and Wysong. I’m leery of all kibble but I have had good luck with these two.

[Safe4pups]

Hello Sophia~ Personally, I would never use rawhide nor bully sticks – they both have obstruction history and the dried penis is an organ that dogs have no need for, is usually imported and can include chemicals.
I have a dog with the same issues – I keep her on Denamarin, Bactaquin and feed her a high grade, grain free food. For treats she gets Get Naked Gut or Low Cal Health Chews, Zukes Apple Crisp bones and Zoe Lifestyle Dog Treats.
~Tracey