Suggested Raw Dog Foods

Part 6:-

When buying offal from your supermarket or special order from your butchers (Normally butchers don’t carry offal on a daily basis as they don’t sell it often as raw meats because they are not as popular for us people to eat. Obviously the ones that do eat offal, have it cooked and it becomes part of a dish.), also place the offal in freezer bags like you would the RMB’s. Or like I do, if the offal you buy already comes packaged in vacuumed seals, just place same in the freezer. Also thaw out the offal for a day in the fridge and it is ready to be given as a whole meal to your dog or cut into small pieces and given with an RMB.

I will sometimes also give my dogs an offal or 2 for a whole meal just like the liver, but a little more often than once every 2 weeks. For example, another given Monday, I might give my dogs, 1 and a half lamb hearts each for their dinner, then an hour so later, a smaller RMB each, such as a chicken wing. Now, in Part 3 below I mentioned kidneys and lungs and some of the list of offal. I bring this up again, to explain that one of my dogs doesn’t like kidneys, whilst the other won’t eat lungs. The point here is that just like people, dogs and cats for that matter, also have peculiar and unique likes and dislikes and it would be a case of trial and error in finding out what offal your dog likes.

Another important thing about offal is that you freeze them them first before thawing them for your dog to eat as when you buy fresh offal, it may contain parasites which should be killed after freezing. Offal is susceptible to parasites when living and functioning in a live animal and stays alive even when an animal is killed and the offal has been removed and distributed for sale. The same applies with fresh fish. Its always best to have fish frozen for at least a whole 24 hours so that any parasites can be killed.

Whilst we want to give our domestic dogs the Mother Nature it deserves, we don’t want to subject them to extra complications regarding parasites. Wolves in the wild are probably better equipped to deal with those parasites they may consume in a fresh ungulate kill. Parasites are not to be confused with bacteria and bacteria is something even a thawed out RMB or offal may still contain, and hence is why the sanitary management mentioned in my Part 1 post is important to heed. Your healthy domestic dog or cat is more than well equipped to deal with any such bacteria it may consume when eating raw foods. The dog’s stomach PH in its healthy state, is about 1 or 2 meaning it is very acidic, more so than our stomach acids, and hence they help to dissolve the bacteria whilst naturally doing the cooking and extruding of raw foods and subsequent healthy digestion and nutrient absorption of such raw foods.

In addition to the many benefits and nutrients obtained by your dog from RMB’s is a naturally maintained strong, clean and healthy set of carnivorous teeth.

Hope all these summarised posts regarding my perspective of somewhat of a guide to help any readers considering feeding their dog’s nature’s intended diet, the raw way.

In conclusion and summary, a canine raw diet somewhat like I’ve laid out here, helps reduce many skin issues, give shinier coats, healthier teeth, healthier eye sight, smaller, firmer and less of, stools, better breath, and just better general well being, even a longer life (helping in reaching their full life span potential).

And remember, a raw meaty bone a day, helps keep the vet away!

Part 4:-

You also want to feed some offal. Offal doesn’t have to be fed each day and each meal doesn’t have to be balanced but rather balanced over a period of time such as week. For example, a typical week regarding diet for my 2 dogs (Both up 10kg ones), is as follows:-

Sunday evening, they may get a chicken frame each for dinner. This may be different for any given Sunday.

Monday may be a fasting day where they will have nothing to eat. This may be a different day of the week but normally I try and fast them one day a week. Fasting them for one a week is an attempt to mimic what the wolf in the wild may experience in the way of missed kills or a shortage of food for whatever reason. In fact in a recent study introducing another new diet for people, it is suggested that people may benefit from eating what they like as long as they keep a healthy mix, all weekday long, then fast on the weekends, then come Monday resume their normal diet.

Tuesday may see them have a whole rabbit carcass each, especially after a day’s fasting.

Wednesday may see them have a serve from Dr. Bruce Syme’s fresh Adult Dog health roll. A high protein balanced blend of raw kangaroo meat with a combination of heart, kidney, tripe and liver, plus chia seed, kelp, cartilage, parsley, barley grass etc. Then an hour or so later, I’ll give them a chicken wing each. This may be different for any given Wednesday.

Thursday may see them have a whole fresh fish with head, scales and guts intact. One of the favourite is Mackerel or Yellow Tail. They pretty much eat the whole fish minus the tail end and intestines. This may be different for any given Thursday but I give them whole fish only once a week, following the advice of Dr. Tom Lonsdale’s books.

Friday may see them have a turkey neck or wing or both depending on the size. Sometimes, the assorted necks or wings may very slightly in size. This may be different for any given Friday.

And Saturday may see them have 2 or 3 organic raw chicken eggs, with shell. I just crack each egg on the side of the bowl to split an opening, then leave the rest to my dogs to retrieve the inside goodness. Some dogs may like to eat the shell but my dogs leave the shell behind. I give them such eggs once a week. Later that evening they will get a chicken back. It may be a different item any given Saturday.

I will also give them one whole serve of raw lamb liver only, once every 2 weeks as per Dr. Tom Lonsdale’s recommendation. It can be chicken liver or any animal species liver. As long as it’s sizable enough to be consider one whole meal. Liver is one of if not the most nutrient dense organ from basically any mammal.

Part 5 to come….

Part 2:-

Depending on the size of your freezer and whether you have more than one and how much other frozen food items you may keep, will depend on how much of the mentioned raw meaty bones (RMB’s) you can fit. And of course, what your budget is like.

Place each RMB in a freezer bag of its own. Why? So that you don’t have say, 2 or more frozen chicken frames or whatever RMB stuck together in the one bag, when you just want to thaw out one that evening to feed your dog. It’s almost impossible to pry apart 2 different pieces of raw meaty bones once they’re frozen. So you’ve purchased some variety of RMB’s, and arrive home. You then make room on your kitchen bench or dinning table (make sure the surface is sterile. Clean it with surface disinfectant or similar household cleaner, and dry it before continuing). Prepare your appropriately sized freezer bags (either small. medium or large, depending on the size of the RMB’s you bought), having each separated and opened up ready to have items placed in each. Or you might have a roll of freezer bags on a wall dispenser similar to ones on a post or stand in a fruit market. You’ll probably have a couple to a few bags of RMB’s that have been bulk placed in one or 2 very large transparent plastic bags of which are wrapped in a roll of white paper. Obviously place these bags and unwrap the RMB’s on the surface you’ve prepared, and place each RMB in one freezer bag that you’ve already gotten ready at the side. Once done, twist, turn and knot the freezer bag sealed and place all of them in the freezer for frozen storage. Sterilise the surface again of where you did the work. I use one spray bottle of white or apple cider vinegar and one spray bottle of 3% hydrogen peroxide. I spray either one first on the surface, then spray the same amount of the other on the same surface covered. Wait only 15 seconds and wipe off clean. You’ll have guaranteed to rid any bacteria that may have been present on the surface. This is better than any commercial spray surface cleaner and more natural and safer. Thanks to the discovery of a PhD food scientist I can’t recall the name of who is from Virginia Tech University, if I recall correctly. She discovered this for the original purpose of cleaning handled raw meats.

Part 3 to come……

Okay so I’m not the only one that remembered reading a similar post. I do think another poster (or possibly the same poster) posted something nearly identical awhile back but I didn’t know if I was confusing it with something else but I think it was on the NV raw thread.

She wasn’t feeding it long enough for any stone to be from the food if she doesn’t even know the name of the food, much less stones the size she is claiming. They don’t form overnight.

I wasn’t able to find any food, let alone a raw food, by googling “Natures Own Variety” either?

I’ve worked at a vet for over 11 years now, and every dog that has had stones (a ton), not one was on a raw diet. Like someone else had said, dogs can get stones from any kibble in theory. They have special kibble to help break down and prevent stones. But to blame it on raw food is complete bull.

On a side note, How is it that the stones were as big as you said, and you saw no symptoms sooner? No blood in urine? how often do you go to your vet? Because if you go often enough, when he does an exam, he would have palpated the abdominal area, and if the stones are as big as you claim, then he would have felt them long before they got that big. The biggest sign would have been the blood though, as well as straining to urinate. If he wasn’t straining, then he “didn’t almost die”, as urine would be passing well enough.

Confusing they got that big and you, and your doctor didn’t notice it sooner.

In AZ, we have a local raw food supplier called Suzy’s Doggie Delights. Could you do a review on them? I know a few people that use them, besides me, and would like to know how they pan out. Thank you in advance

Another great product is found at Greentrip.com their Excalibur mix is tops. Has everything a dog or cat needs, very nasty when thawed, but they love it frozen on a hot day. Can’t say enough about this product. after using it for 15 years I have found that rotating with K9 Kraving and treats with fresh sardines, there is no need for pet food as we now know it.

Ha ha ha I’m sry… I can’t help but laugh first of all a dogs mouth as we all know is cleaner then our own! As for the rest…you are more concerned with what your dog might or might not give you then what you are as to what your bringing into your own house. Do you know the % of bacteria or even what unhatched eggs might be attached to the bottom of your shoe?!? So riddle me this do you bleach the bottom of your shoes when you get home? Well if not then any small child that crawls has a more likely chance of getting anything from your shoes then they do from a dog kiss… But at the end of the day, it really stems down to your house matinence if you don’t clean properly well then you get what you want… which is sickness…. Which is also know as karma. If that is what your expecting then that what your going to get!
Kisses to all the raw food feeders… Keep it real!

Yeah, I agree with Hound Dog Mom.

I’ve been raw feeding for over seven years. I currently have eight dogs (3 are fosters that will probably be with me for their life). I also foster for two rescues and have had over 30 dogs come through the house. ALL dogs are either entirely raw fed or get a raw topper on their kibble.

We definitley do have to clean up poo. We do allow kisses. Five of the dogs sleep with me. They get on all the furniture and have free run of the house. With all those dogs, in all those years we have not had even one issue with salmonella in the dogs or humans. My, currently, two and three year old grand kids have lived with us for the past 18 months too. AND, they help feed the dogs.

Humans can just as easily contract salmonella from exiting a public bathroom after someone else who didn’t wash their hands. Or picking up an apple at the grocer and eating it on the way home without washing it first. Not to mention kibble being a source, as we’ve seen quite a bit lately, of salmonella poisoning.

It is not the same. Does your dog wipe its own arse? What about the fecal matter and dogs saliva? Surly you get how its a much bigger issue then handling food. I guess your not one of those people who actually cleans up his poop, gets kisses or happens to touch, sit and walk barefooted over a spot the dogs arse was at one point.

I am currently buying premade raw. Just because we both work shift work in emergency services and need something fairly easy to have prepared and we also have 4 different sized dogs.

Do they drink a lot of water in the evening?

They eat supper at 6:30pm. Bedtime is around 10-11pm. They go out at least 3 times now before bed, then right at bedtime. We are up no later than 8am, but usually earlier. They NEVER mess in the house, but now someone has two nights in a row, just clear urine.

Why are my dogs urinating so much after switching to raw? It’s ridiculous, they can’t even make it though the night anymore. Of course my vet says switch back to kibble and you won’t have that problem! That is just not an option, but why are they peeing all the time??

I do both. I buy that stuff ground and whole and sometimes my dogs get ground, sometimes they get whole. I usually don’t mind the crunch of bones, but for some reason, this morning it was a bit much to take.

My top pics for frozen raw would be Answer’s or Aunt Jeni’s. The cheapest would probably be Bravo Balance or K9-Kraving.

Ive begun feeding our dogs and kitten raw, but I buy from the grocery store. I am convinced kibble is cooked “dead matter” and thus could not possibly be beneficial for dogs and cats, even grain free foods. Not one problem from the raw yet and i have already seen cleaner teeth and gums on my guys.

I don’t feed my dogs fish (sardines once in a great while, but that’s it) and I only eat fish myself once or twice a month (which I hate because I love fish…but most of the fish I love – swordfish, tuna – are higher in mercury and it’s hard to get wild caught salmon at my grocery store). For fish oil I only give my dogs sardine/anchovy oil (lower in contaminants) and top quality cod liver oil that I trust to not be contaminated (Carlson).

I agree with you. I don’t feed my animals salmon inclusive products on regular basis. I also only use molecularly distilled fish oil for the same reason.

You have to order Darwin’s direct from the company, if you want it.

I really like Darwin’s. They say to fast your dog for one day and then start feeding the new food at a reduced amount. Darwin’s has details. I just started topping my dry food with raw and then reduced the amount of dry. I didn’t have any problems at all and my dogs love it. I feed raw in the morning and kibble at night so my squeamish family will be able to feed in a pinch.

Hi Nita –

This list is “Suggested Raw Dog Foods.” THK isn’t raw – all their meat is steamed to 165 degrees F prior to dehydration.

FYI, being certified by AAFCO is nothing to brag about. It doesn’t take much for them to approve of a food.

The big concern with feeding raw is gut health.  A dog with a healthy gut doesn’t get salmonella.  Does your dog transition to different foods easily or does she get diarrhea easily?  If you think of your dog as having a cast iron stomach, then her gut is probably in good shape, but if she is touchy and gets upset stomachs easily then maybe not.  Adding good probiotics and digestive enzymes to the food helps improve the conditions in her intestines.

YOU can get stones or other ailments eating a human organic, clean, low fat, healthy diet…it doesn’t mean that if you do you start eating Burger King every day instead. Ilness can happen to all of us at anytime, human or dog. Don’t ever think kibble is better for your dog….instead of bladder stones she might get kidney failure from poisoning….is that better? COME ON!

I may be wrong but I believe that Orijen (no “S” at the end) and Acana are, were, owned by Champion Pet food. Awhile back, I *think* that Champion sold to someone else but it’s still the Champion name that owns Acana and Orijen. 

I’m not sure what you mean by “Where” but on this site, it’s under “H” for Honest. Their website is http://www.TheHonestKitchen.com

And on food made by “the large companies that make dog food who do the most extensive studies with live feedings to all stages dogs.” I think that Bichons must be particularly prone to bladder stones.  

I have been feeding my dog Natures own variety…..raw frozen patties…….she was just diagnosed with huge bladder stones (via x-ray and bloody urine) she had surgery this morning and I will never feed her raw again. They said that they have never seen stones this large in such a small dog…she is a Bichon and weighs only 11 lbs. I used to think that raw was the best and now I will trust my vet and the large companies that make dog food who do the most extensive studies with live feedings to all stages dogs, their goals besides making money is to prolong the life of our pets. My vet has been practicing for 40 years and he has dogs, cats, horses and he feeds his dogs and cats these foods and not raw…..I am sick of hearing the hype about raw, raw almost killed my dog!

Shame on you for spouting the party line instead of researching for yourself.  Feeding balanced raw is safer than feeding kibble.  At least people know when they handle raw meat they need to use good hygiene.  They think they are safe with kibble and we all know that is NOT so.

Please read the American Animal Hospital Association’s (AAHA) Raw Protein Diet Position Statement https://www.aahanet.org/Library/Raw_Food_Diet.aspx before feeding your pets raw food.

Still, it’s an interesting theory, cornfield1960

I guess you are referring to things like various androgens, growth hormones, etc.

These are both natural occuring and synthetically made.

“Because animals naturally produce their own sex hormones, it is not possible to tell whether levels of the natural sex hormones in meat are elevated because of additional hormone administration.”

Read more: http://www.livestrong.com/article/534802-does-meat-have-hormones/#ixzz2HgNsvtjE

It is not really a sexual behavior even though it mimics one.  It’s more of a case of he feels so good he doesn’t know what to do with himself.  Even female dogs will do the same thing when they are over stimulated and don’t know how to handle it.

I buy my raw dog food from a very reputable butcher who only business is in raw pet food. They only sell organic meat- chicken, lamb, turkey, duck & beef (which I do not feed my dogs) The meat is ground up – bones & all. It is the best food for my dogs. I am very careful when handling the raw meat as I would if I were handling any raw meat. Just a little common sense is all that is needed.

Mlsturgeon69 –

Dehydrated dog food is not raw. Nobody that feeds their dogs real raw (fresh or frozen unprocessed meat) would feel that any food that is dehydrated is raw.

In Dr. Becker’s article on alternative pet foods:
(http://healthypets.mercola.com/sites/healthypets/archive/2012/02/08/alternative-pet-diet-trend.aspx)

“Dehydrated pet food can be either cooked or raw, but dehydrated raw
isn’t truly raw. It’s an option, for example, for pets being
transitioned from dry food to raw, or for pet owners who can’t or don’t
want to feed true raw.”

I love Flint River Ranch,human grade,never on Recall,and China free.

We would love to see a review of Redbud’s Raw Dog Food. Ingredient lists can be found here- http://www.redbudsraw.com/ingredients/ for all 4 formulas, Beef, Pork , Chicken and Turkey.
Thanks!

I feed a large Airedale chicken thighs and legs, pork loins and shoulders, beef heart, and any other meat I can find on sale. He also eats the pig bones from the legs, shoulders, or feet. The chicken bones are enjoyed as well. I don’t mix anything in with his meat. I buy large piece of meat on the bone at the butcher for .88 to 1.79 per pound. I cut it up and freeze what is necessary. Generally, I freeze no more than a week worth of food. He’s very healthy, no bad breath, and beautiful teeth.

Thanks I will check forums and hare-today/mypetcarnivore.  Im still confused if I make my own food with fish, sweet potato & green beans…do I add the Honest Kitchen Preference to give him the vitamins and minerals he needs.  I am assuming I need to make sure that the muscle and organ meats come from a source he is not allergice to….right?

Hey Renni97 –

Check out the Raw Diet section under the forums. Homemade is a lot cheaper than pre-made and you have better control over which ingredients go in and the quality of those ingredients. You could also get a pre-mix such as the Honest Kitchen’s preference or Sojo’s and add meat to it. Sites like hare-today.com and mypetcarnivore.com sell grinds with muscle meat, organ meat and bone to which you only need to add veggies and supplements – both sites have several novel proteins available such as rabbit, buffalo, quail, pheasant, fish, goat, etc.

Primal and Nature’s Variety Instinct both have raw foods made with venison or rabbit, and Primal makes a Sardine Grind. I’m sure you can find them online.

Hi Jennifer –

Dr. Mike hasn’t reviewed easy raw but I just looked it up on Only Natural Pet and it looks like a mid-quality food at best – I’d say it’s on par with the three star foods. The main problem is that it’s extremely low in protein – the varieties range from 22% – 23% which is hardly above the AAFCO minimum. Meat isn’t even the first ingredient, sweet potato is the first ingredient in the turkey and beef varieties and oats are the first ingredient in the chicken variety. The second thing is “dehydrated” food is not raw, yes it’s less processed than kibble but it’s not raw. Raw food comes from the freezer or the fridge.

Back when turkeys were on sale right before Thanksgiving, I went ahead and put 2 in the freezer so I’d have them when I wanted them.

hmm, they told me 40lbs. I’ll have to ask next month when I get my email for my next shipment. 

actually, it’s 40lbs or more to get the 10% off. 100lbs or more to get 15% off.

20 lbs will do us for 3 months. I like to save too, but as I explained, I will pay a bit more and just buy more often for the sake of freshness.

Ahhhh. VERY revealing article, and by Steve Brown even. Had no idea he was a consultant for Darwin’s. Pretty much confirms what I suspected about the rest. Thank you very much. Thanks Patty too for bringing it to attention.

I’ll be ordering more Darwin’s tommorrow. Gonna get 40 lbs this time. Gonna even include duck this time.

Funny how Darwin’s duck is their lowest fat and lowest calorie selection. Everyone seems to believe that duck is so fatty/greasy, in fact I always had that impression.

To find the article go up to the top of this page and click on Library in the red bar, then scroll down quite a ways to Category Choosing Dog Food, then scroll down to almost the bottem of that category to find it.  Sorry, I’m horrible at links, I’ve only ever placed one right.

You’re fine! Been traveling all day.

Anyway, my mix gets a single pack of Darwin’s for one meal and then 1/2 of whatever grind is being offered. . So a total of one pound per day.

so the 50lb. cattle dog/GSD, 8 oz per meal twice a day? Or 8oz darwins 1 meal and 8 or?  ozs/cups of something else for second meal?
Not trying to pry or be a pain, just trying to iron some things out. Thnx

Oh, O.K. ground whole prey. i might take a look and give it a little thought. Thnx.

Yes Steve’s book really made alot of sense to me on the importance of fat balancing.

Alexandria can i bother you to provide more info on your dogs, i.e. breed, sex, fixed or not, weight, and activity. Also exactily how much are you feeding (ounces)

thnx

Thnx for the info. I doubt I will even try NV now.

Yeah i can’t argue the Darwin’s advantages with you. I’m just weighing the advantages/disadvantages, and so far Darwin’s is winning overall. Thnx for the reply

Hi losul,

As for prepared raw, here is what I have learning in the past year as I moved my pack to 100% raw:

Natures Variety uses HPP processing, a method that dries their meat and “decontaminates” it. The meat is grey and dry and not very appealing. This is what I first started with before learning what I know now.

The Darwin’s, which my pack loves, is shipped at about 4-6 weeks from processing, so it is super fresh. They THRIVE on this. The product looks appealing and I follow their 2% recommendation and my boys look GREAT! No issues with weight, stool, etc. Their eyes are bright, teeth are remarkably white, no doggie smell, etc.

I now offer Darwin’s one meal a day now, due to the expense. Their other meal are various bone in grinds from either My Pet Carnivore or Hare-Today, they get a wide range of proteins this way and they are in great shape.

I can’t answer the questions about percentages etc but just wanted to say that I believe that Darwins is one of the best pre made raws out there. I have only tried two others: Stella & Cheweys and Nature’s Variety but Darwins looks better. It’s obviously fresher. I get it three weeks after it was made. Hard to get much fresher than that. 
For that reason alone, I’m ok with feeding Darwins for only part of their diet. One of mine gets it for breakfast daily; the other one gets it for breakfast every three days. It’s only because of cost. I wish I had access to some of the other raws but I don’t. Oops, wait, we were at a store in state that had some Vital Essentials but you could see, and hear, the ice inside the bag. Freezer burned. I’d rather pay for the fresh Darwins than pay for freezer burned old other stuff.

Researching some more pre-prepped raw foods before I commit to another order of Darwin’s, as it has been even MORE expensive (with the amount to feed) than I previously thought, but Darwin’s still seems to be winning out anyway in terms of quality, convenience, and what I think suits my dog best. Still have some more to look at.

Something just doesn’t add up for me with  Nature’s Variety raw food. Their website states they use 95% meat, organs, and bone with veggies, fruits, and other the remaining 5%. The website also gives 65 calories per ounce, which equals 1040 calories per pound. Estimated dry matter protein, fat, and carbs about 40-23-29??? Really??Darwins says 69% meat, organs, and bone, 29% veggies, and about 2% other.  Estimated dry matter protein, fat, and carbs about 51-27-15. Darwin’s also reports about 550 calories per pound on average between the chicken, duck, turkey, and beef meals.  Makes sense, quality lean meats and low starch, low sugar, and low glycemic veggies,  although I think it takes ALOT more of Darwin’s to meet a dog’s daily calorie requirements than the 2 to 3% of body weight that they suggest. Darwin’s seems to get alot more expensive in those terms of amounts to feed, but the base fats is good, and  then FRESH (the way I prefer to feed them, instead of frozen and/or preserved fish or oils) eggs, sardines, a few other fats can easily be added and brought into good balance with Darwin’s, and without going overboard on the total fats.Even Steve’s raw, which readily reveals much higher fat content on their website than both of the others, about 44-42-8 dry weight estimated, still shows much fewer calories (688/lb.) than Nature’s variety at 1040 calories/lb. Steve’s raw claims to use between 70 and 75% meat. It bother’s me though, that in Steve Brown’s book, he very much advises against using flaxseed to balance beef fats, yet there it is in the beef formula.I just don’t see how it can possibly add up, unless the fat content in NV is a heck of ALOT higher than is purported/believed. Where else are all the calories coming from? Nearly twice the calories of Darwin’s 560? Or is Darwin’s calories somehow stated too low? The amount I need to feed of Darwin’s makes me think it is not stated too low.  I think the manner of estimating the actual percentages can be very flawed, especially in the case of NV, and  especially when there is no guaranteed MAXIMUM or actual fat content given. Hmmmm.

Hi Mfukida (can I presume your screen name implies what I’m thinking it does? At least you haven’t lost your sense of humor;).

Seriously though, did you get to the bottom of the skin allergy? So, she was on a LID at the time she was prescribed the antibiotics at which time she was also switched to a prescription diet, right? What is she eating right now? What kind of probiotics are you using? I know this doesn’t answer your question about dehydrated / freeze- dried foods, but it seems like more information about your pup would help.

My dog is currently having loose stools.  She was fine until completing a regimen of antibiotics for skin allergy.  This was 2-1/2 months ago.  She was on a limited ingredient diet, changed to hydrolyzed diet, and is taking probiotics.  No change.  Working with a vet–next step is blood work.  A friend suggested raw freeze-dried diet.  Any suggestions?

We are always looking to buy quality meat for canine consumption. Martins K9 Formula (516) 671 9600

That would be a lloonngg way to drive for shampoo;-)  I wish we had a holistic vet anywhere around, the closest one I’ve heard of is closer to 100 miles away than 50.  Don’t get me wrong, I love my vet, I helped train her up when she first got out of vet school, actually our clinic was where she did her interning before she got out of vet school.  But she still more or less tows the AVMA line.  She’s more flexible than old school and she gives me a wink and a nod over some things that are real handy, like splitting heartworm prevention.

LOL! Before I dropped off the meals at her office, I took my vet half a package of Darwin’s duck necks when Sam had an appointment. She inspected them thoroughly and said that she had given her dog (she has one small dog) a chicken neck recently and she was impressed with the amount of meat on the duck necks.

I get a little goofy in that when I get excited about something, I want to share it with everyone I think will appreciate it.

Patty, if you were closer I’d be dropping some Wen off at your house for your daughter!

I dropped off one of each of the Darwin’s varieties that I use for my vet’s dog to sample. My vet sent me a note that said that her dog loved all of them and gave them two paws up!

Yeah. The proof is in the pudding. Vets can say all they want but my dogs have no health issues, have shiny soft coats, nice teeth and never have internal or external parasites. I know this wouldn’t be the case if I was feeding the vet’s choice of food. You can’t argue with healthy when it’s sitting right in front of you.

Lol! I do the same thing. My vet HATES raw and all the natural stuff I do (minimal vaccines, no chemical flea and tick treatments, no chemical wormers, etc.). so sometimes I just go along with her just to avoid the debate. Smile and nod…just smile and nod.

Ignore what your vet says abut the raw and stick with it. My first vet was strongly opposed to raw as well and I ended up switching vets (primarily because I needed another opinion on an altogether different issue and wanted the opinion of a more holistically-minded vet) and found that my new vet wholeheartedly supported raw. The more my new vet and I talked, the more I realized that she supported lots of ideas that I believed were better for my dogs… the majority of which I learned about here.

Your instincts are good… trust them.

I have a frenchbulldog that is very picky eater and has had problems with diarrhea since I can remember. I’ve tried almost all brands of dog foods and he seems to love Stella and Chewy freeze dried patties however, i recently took my dog to the Vet and she is strongly against feeding my dog a raw diet. I am torn because not only does my dog look healthier but he loves the food and his poop is finally normal. What do I do? any advise? thanks

I got them at the Mexican supermarket.  They also had bulk chicken drumsticks, gizzards and other meats.  And bought some ceviche for me!  ElRanchoInc.com

Fed the dogs wild caught whole sardines for the first time yesterday. The were about 6 or 7 inches long and they were done in 1 or 2 minutes!  Bought 15 lbs worth on sale for 1.19/lb.

Hi monkey,
I followed your link and looked at your E. I know that most E is from soy. While yours didn’t specify where it was from, it did say it was wheat, gluten & dairy free. Conspicuously absent was the soy. So I’m guessing its soy, too. Since 91-96% of soy is GMO, you might want to consider this GMO free brand of E. it’s still soy. Just not GMO.

http://www.nowfoods.com/Products/FAQs/M010620.htm

So, it looks like I’ll be trying Urban Wolf after I try THK’S Preference. I had throw THK’S into my upcoming flow at Petflow.com and when I logged on this morning, my order is already in the packing process. Dang, the one thing we do not need around here is more poop. ; ) Of course, I had gone to doggie food.com and had a shopping cart already to go – I’ll save it for the next round. Free shipping and 15 percent off my first order. : ) I’ll let you know how THK’S works out. Thanks for your help!

So, I’m definitely interested in Urban Wolf. I went to the company’s website and was going to order their 25th anniversary special, but the shipping was crazy! Where do you buy yours, HDM?

You know how much I always appreciate your help.
: )

LOL, I understand.

Hey Sandy if you’re looking for a good vitamin e supplement this is what I use: http://www.nowfoods.com/Supplements/Products-by-Category/Vitamins/Vitamin-E/M012531.htm

It has the tocopherols and the tocotrienols. It’s pretty reasonably priced as well.

“That includes the right amount of letting the food thief stare at him, but whatever works… ”

Love that!! Do you rent him out? Sonia’s no help in that department. She never has been a big eater.

Rosie doesn’t like un pulverized shell, either. And if she’s in the mood for it, she’ll pick every kibble out, suck off the good stuff and spit it out on the floor. Then, when she’s got the ‘frosting’ off, she goes back and eats the kibble. @@ arrrrgh! I had to train her to do it near her bowl instead of all over the down stairs. But mostly, I feed one or the other, so we don’t have that.

Betsy I just mix a raw egg with sardines and mix it all together.Dr Mike cautioned me to make sure every kibble gets coated with the topper you use.That’s so they don’t go picking through the food.When I add fresh meat I lightly cook the egg and meat together untill the egg barely starts to scramble in a sauce pan with a little water and mix with a cup of kibble. Jubilee certainly is not picky so it’s easy for me…

LOL! Somebody has you trained!!

I favor that method too.  There’s also the “sooner or later it will balance out” method. 

Mike,

You and I sound a lot alike!

So, since we’re talking about it… just how do I give these guys an egg. Crack it on top of the kibble – pulverize the shells or toss it if I don’t pulverize it, right?

I started giving my guys sardines, but I was bummed when I opened the can and found they were headless. Which reminds me of my favorite Halloween commercial yet again. ; )

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U6r_WX2M-s8

Last time, I promise. This one is the special YouTube version.

Toxi you are to funny!! I have NO idea what I’m doing.Dr Mike turned me on first to topping almost 2 years ago.Labs told me about sardines and eggs.You and Shawna have taught me everything else I have done so far.I am so dumb I just mix things up and hope I get half of it right.It’s the throw the s@&# against the wall and see what sticks method I use.

Mike P and John seem to have the topper – stretch thing down pretty good! Lots of rotated animal proteins, probiotics, enzymes, greens, turmeric, garlic pumpkin… Maybe we should have them write a book!

Her recipes are in her book. I can’t do print so someone emailed me a couple. I’m waiting for the e version. I haven’t checked for it lately, so if its there, let me know.

Hi Alexandra,

I agree completely – we pay a premium for convenience. I have a brand new boutique pet store store opening close to my house soon that looks like it’ll be carrying additional raw diets that my current pet food store doesn’t.

Hi InkedMarie,

I will have to look at my shipping label when the next order arrives. The way I thought it happened was that the food is made in PA but still sent from WA. I wish I still had a box from two weeks ago…

Hi Betsy,
I’m not gong to be much help to you. Sorry. We raise beef & lamb, & my guys hut deer elk, upand game birds, and fish. So meat doesn’t cost me. Now if you knw any hunters or ranchers, they often have older meat, or freezer burned meat and need to “clean out” the deep freeze. Let it be known in he’s circles, you could have more meat than you kw what to do with.
:-} I use Steve Brown’s Unlocking the Canine Ancestal Diet, and Dr. Becker’s recipes.

Hi Besty,

I am going through the same process myself. I love the Darwin’s meals. My crew does well on all flavors. What I love about Darwin’s is that it is already balanced, just open and feed. I have two dogs and they go through about three pounds a day.

As for cost effectiveness, I find the Darwin’s kills me in shipping, they ship from Seattle, I live in PA, so 50# is almost 60.00.

So I do several things, I offer a big variety in foods.
I have the Darwin’s, I make my own tripe, I also order raw grinds from Hare-Today.com. I also offer Brothers Complete a few days a week to round out any “gaps” in their diet or if I forget to thaw food out.

The grinds and the tripe I get are not “complete meals” like the Darwin’s. So there is more work involved to balance, like adding a whole food vitamin into the meal. Sometimes they get organic Greek yogurt, raw eggs, goats milk, etc. they never know what they are getting.

For cost effectiveness, you could try some raw meats from Bravo, their balanced line has everything already in it like the Darwin’s, and they have a greater variety in the meats.

You could try getting as much as you can from the grocery store, like the managers specials that are close to the sell by date…but again, not balanced so a little more work.

I suppose it can be summed up as higher cost gives you convenience of fully prepared. The lesser expensive usually entails more work.

Not very helpful and I apologize but this is what I have learned over the last few months.

Sheila — I’m taking a break from the site for a while..  If you want to discuss the book/have questions etc you can reach me at shawnadfaemail@yahoo.com

Oh yeah- I forgot you said you were not doing as much home prepared right now. I find myself wanting to tweak the diet already. Lol. I’m sure there will be times when I want to just feed a complete commercial product like HK or some of the frozen ones that I haven’t tried. It will probably be a good learning experience to follow her recommendations for a while and learn to tweak smartly over time. I was really looking for an easy method of providing home prepared meals that I had confidence in following. Not sure if I’m gonns be able to allow it to be easy or not lol.

So you use the purchased mixes in addition to her mineral mix?

I read it cover to cover in pretty much one sitting. I can see where it could be overwhelming but I refuse to allow that to happen. I’m going to start with what i can get at my grocer/butcher – Make a batch to start letting my pups get used to it. Then I’ll order a supplement mix or the components to make her mineral mix to add to the next batch. Those commercial supplement mixes you were telling me about takes the place of the mineral mix? I’ve already been using a fish oil supplement which I will use up and then will look at various options available.
Thanks, Shawna.

LOL. What, you mean your husband doesn’t want to watch your dogs devouring whole animals? It is a little gross, especially to look at the pictures. My stomach has gotten very strong since I started to feed raw. I was nervous when I first started feeding bones too, I kept worrying they’d get a blockage or something.

Sandy, you said, “the machine just eats it all up like something out a horror movie!”

This made me laugh. I just pictured you standing over your grinder, giggling maniacally as you toss things in!

You got the book? Great! Let us all know how the raw is going for you once you get going with the recipes.

Sandy, Shawna, Hound Dog Mom,
Guess what I finally got in the mail today!!!

LOL!!  Nothing wrong with being enthusiastic about starting.  In fact, what you do in the next week or two is not going to create any long term imbalances (unless you really messed up like by feeding meat only — which you know better then to do).  If you want to get started then I would say – get started .

You can feed the HK Preference with meat for one meal and 50/50 raw meaty bone for another.  Yes, you will be missing nutrients from the organs but an imbalance of that nature takes time to manifest.  Or meat/a form of calcium/twice the amount of organ and veggies for one and rmb for second (which is what I think you were asking — just keep appropriate calcium amounts in both meals).  My vet feeds larger amounts of organs once a week instead of with every meal.  AND, there is nothing saying that you can’t feed 10% organ (and veggies if you want) in the bowel then give pup a rmb to finish off the meal. 

Dr. Becker’s book has very specific supplements to use (like salt, vitamin E (a specific amount) etc.).  No sense buying a lot of supplements just to turn around and have to buy the ones she recommends in a few weeks.  You DON’T have to use the supplements if you include foods that have those nutrients but they included them as they were easier to source for most people… 

I prolly just need to get started with the book and then let you help me tweak their diets if needed. Will probably be able to discuss more intelligently then. Putting the horse before the cart. Just READY to get my book:(

Thought I’d share this, anyone else who feeds raw should consider submitting photos.

http://tinkerwolf.com/2012/09/07/raw-fed-dogs-number-367-368-and-369-gus-mabel-and-gertie/

And I am still waiting for the delivery of Dr.Beckers book.

Most recommed not including more then 10% organ and only 5% of that should be liver (preferrably organic liver). 

This is just my opinion and I know there are those that disagree, but I don’t think meat and bone alone is AT ALL balanced — especially as 50% of the entire diet.  Meat provides protein and fat and bone provides some minerals and fat but the organs etc is where all the vitamins and some minerals are.  A raw meat bone can be fed as an entire meal but the additional meals (over time) need to compensate for the lacking nutrients in the rmb meals. 

HDM and I both use a combination of whole food supplements along with the raw diets we feed.  Foods like spirulina and bee pollen etc.  I live in the city and my dogs are exposed to a greater amount of toxins then many farm dogs (car exhaust, neighbors lawn chemicals etc).  Because of this it is my opinion that they need more nutrients to counter those added toxins.  However, dogs living in prestine rural areas with clean air and water etc might not need the added nutrients that I give my pups.. 

Additionally, my dogs are toys breeds so I can’t give them the variety of raw meaty bones that larger dogs have access too.  So in order to get enough variety I have to feed a good deal of their meals ground. 

Consider your specific circumstances and go from there.  If your dog can handle a wide variety of rmb’s (goat head, lamb shanks, whole ducks or rabbits etc) then you could very likely have enough variety to have a balanced diet with 50% being rmb’s.

Likewise, if you are in an area that has clean drinking water and you don’t have to give filtered (which strips the minerals), don’t have a lot of indoor or outdoor pollution etc then you could get by with fewer supplements..

Have you ever looked at Dr. Becker’s recipe book?  It gives guidelines on how to balance a raw meat bone (with bone) meal.  It’s not expensive and has some very good info..

Hi Sheila

When using meat without bone/calcium use their recommendations but use the one that allows for more meat — one to one ratio.  You can add some sardines or an egg with the shell to increase the protein content (that’s what I do). 

From what I’ve read and understand, it is best to feed raw meaty bones that are 50/50 meat to bone so as not to over supplement with calcium.  If the bones are not 50/50 you can always give additional protein before giving the bones.

I strive for about 15 to 20% veggies but if wanting 10% you could also add canned or raw green tripe (which is balanced in phosphorus to calcium, good protein and the raw has lots of additional nutrients).  Answer’s raw goat milk would be another good option..  Balanced in calcium/phos with lots of extra nutrition..

Thanks HDM.

I will track down the whole food multi and use that.

Thanks for the input.

Thanks!!

I will look into the supplement.

My pet carnivore is much better priced then Darwins, thats why I thought I would try them.

Thanks HDM,

So am I better off just offering the grinds by themselves since I will still be offering Brothers kibble for the morning meal?

The whole balance thing makes me nervous.

Because the whole ground animal on my pet carnivore already has a balanced calcium to phosphorus ratio I would think adding a premix would throw off the ratio. The C:P ratio of preference is 2.43:1, so it’s off balance with too much calcium, depending on the C:P ratio of what you’re adding the end ratio could potentially be off if what you add is on the high end of the ratio with say 1.9:1 C:P. I think the premixes are better used with boneless meat. I know Happy Dog makes a premix without added calcium, just fruits veggies and some chelated vitamins and minerals.

Thanks for the sample menu.  As I said, I’m anxious to get the Dr. Becker book delivery and try to get some of my pups started.  I want to try to get a routine down with a some and then add the rest of them.  I have a lab that is 13.5 years and a yorkie mix thats is 14 years 8 months.  I’m not sure if I’m going to change their diets dramatically.

Do you feed 20% of that meal or 20% of the dog’s total intake for the day when you veggies?

I understand your percentages now:) but would still like a reply to my other questions. Thanks

Thermida –

I was worried about that when I first started raw as well. Once you get the hang of it, it’s really simple. Dogaware.com is a great resource with a lot of recipes and some good books are “Unlocking the Canine Ancestral Diet” by Steve Brown and “Dr. Becker’s Real Food for Healthy Dogs and Cats” by Doctor Karen Becker DVM. When feeding raw, if you feed enough variety and balance it not many vitamins and minerals are necessary. I generally feed my dogs 80% meat (of which 80% is muscle meat, 10% is organ meat, 10% is bone), 20% cooked, pureed veggies and sometimes fruit and I use mostly whole foods supplements: reduced vitamin a cod liver oil, kelp/alfalfa/spirulina/bee pollen, probiotics, unfiltered apple cider vinegar, and vitamin e. I rotate proteins daily for variety.

Sorry Thermida, I’m not sure which products are available in Puerto Rico. But if the Sojo’s Grain-Free premix is available, using that and adding your own raw meat would be a good option. The complete and balanced Sojo’s foods with the meat added have great ingredients but they’re just too low in protein, which is why they only have three stars. But if you use the premix with fresh meat it should be much higher in protein. If you can get the Honest Kitchen or Grandma Lucy’s in Puerto Rico those are great foods, they’re dehydrated like Sojos – Grandma Lucy’s has their Artisan line which is 4 stars and their Pureformance line which is 5 stars and THK has several 4 and 5 star formulas. Frozen raw or homemade raw is probably the best if you can feed that to your dog. I feed my dogs a homemade raw diet.

Termida –

Dr. Mike usually only includes 4 and 5 star rated foods on his recommended lists. Sojo’s is only a 3 star food.

My thoughts on cat nutrition are different from dogs which reflect one being an omnivore and the other a carnivore.

You wrote “I’ve recently read on Wikipedia “It has been postulated that the presence of glucokinase in liver reflects the ease with which carbohydrates can be included in the animals’ diets ” Dogs have hepatic glucokinase, whereas in cats it is very minimal.”

And yet Purina cat products have a significant amount of carbs AND vegetable protein???

Purina “Naturals” cat food ingredient list

“Chicken meal, corn gluten meal, soybean meal, brewers rice, animal fat preserved with mixed-tocopherols (form of Vitamin E), corn meal, chicken, salmon, powdered cellulose, ground whole wheat, natural flavor, soybean hulls,”

This food has only 38% protein and 13% fat.  Based on your research is this a species appropriate food for cats?

Interestingly enough, salivery amylase isn’t a characteristic of omnivores. Several references only refer to salivary amylase being present in some primates, rodents and lagamorphs. 

But I think as detection methods have improved it has been found in many different species including cats and dogs in tiny amounts.

Shawna ,

A trick question I’m sure!! LOL If the idea of self domestication is right than the evolutionary diet of the dog is poop and garbage.

Gives a whole new meaning to the age old question “why do dogs eat poop?”  ”well my dear child it is because it is their evolutionary species apporpriate diet” : )  

But I’m not going to pick poop as my ideal diet. Though I’ve read in certain cultures human poop is a significant portion of the village dog diet to this day!

To answer this there is an underlying assumtion that I believe that there is “one” ideal diet and I don’t.  

I’ll always choose fresh over processed.