Are Dogs Carnivores — or Omnivores?

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Are dogs carnivores — or omnivores? The Great Debate goes on.
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When it comes to choosing dog food, it’s important to know the answer to that question.

So, if you’ve already been told dogs are indifferent omnivores with no natural preferences…

Or that they’re strict carnivores with an innate aversion to eating fruits and vegetables…

All scientific evidence clearly points to the fact that…

Dogs Have a Natural
and Undeniable Carnivorous Bias

From DNA studies, we know dogs evolved directly from the timber wolf somewhere around 15,000 years ago1.

And, of course, it should come as no surprise. Wolves are clearly carnivores.

So, by their very genetic pedigree, dogs also demonstrate similar and noticeable carnivorous traits. Their teeth, their digestive systems and their behavior clearly confirm this fact.

Yet dogs must also be recognized for their significant omnivorous ability. Their proven ability to digest carbohydrate-based foods has been known for many years.

After all, modern genetic research has proof that ten canine genes play key roles in starch digestion and fat metabolism.2

However, a dog still shows unmistakable evidence that its body is optimized for eating meat.

Dogs Don’t Grind — They Chop

For comparison, think about a typical herbivore — a dairy cow. Picture the way they “chew their cud”.

Cows chew widely from side-to-side. And they have broad, flat back teeth. And flat teeth are ideal for grinding grains and plant material into finer particles.

True omnivores (like humans) share this same combination of boxy back teeth and sideways grinding motion common to herbivores. Think of your own mouth and how you chew.

Dogs, on the other hand, don’t have flat teeth. Like all carnivores, they have narrow pointy back teeth.

Plus dogs can’t chew from side-to-side. Their jaws can only move in an up-and-down, chop-chop motion. It’s the perfect combination for cutting meat into smaller chunks.

No Salivary Amylase

Herbivores and omnivores possess one aid to digestion carnivores typically lack.

Carnivores do not produce amylase in their salivary glands.3

Amylase is a specialized enzyme most herbivores and omnivores produce in their saliva. It helps begin the break down of starchy carbohydrates into simple sugars — before they enter the stomach.

Although dogs do produce amylase, the enzyme is added further down the digestive tract — in the pancreas and small intestine.

Edited4

Digestive Anatomy

Since they consume fewer but larger meals, carnivores have bigger stomachs than their grazing, plant-eating counterparts.

What’s more, meat-eating animals exhibit a higher concentration of stomach acid. This allows faster digestion of animal protein.

And the stronger acid kills the disease-causing bacteria abundant in decaying meat.

What’s more, herbivores have an unusually long gastrointestinal tract — exceeding ten times the animal’s body length. Longer systems like this are needed for consuming a plant-based diet.

Welcome to the Age of Choice

Yet in spite of this natural carnivorous design, dogs have still managed to evolve over thousands of years — even surviving on the meat and non-meat scraps and leftovers of human existence.

So, over time, dogs have proven to be fully capable of thriving on a variety of foods.

Today, the dog food marketplace has become a living, breathing witness to the animal’s adaptive ability — and is abounding with an astonishing array of product designs.

Some favor meat. Some feature vegetables. And others are made almost entirely of cereal grains and beans.

So, how do you choose the right one for your pet?

The Bottom Line

Knowing that dogs are optimized for eating meat can make it easier to recognize better dog foods.

Even though dogs do demonstrate a notable omnivorous capacity, we believe it’s important to give preference to meat-based products. That’s because…

Whether you believe they’re carnivores or omnivores, dog’s possess an undeniable carnivorous bias

Meat-based dog foods are closer to a dog’s natural ancestral diet. They’re more like the real thing.

Footnotes

  1. Lindblad-Toh K, Wade CM, Mikkelsen TS, et al, “Genome sequence, comparative analysis and haplotype structure of the domestic dog”, December 2005, Nature 438 (7069): 803–19
  2. Axelsson E. et al, The genomic signature of dog domestication reveals adaptation to a starch-rich diet, Nature, 2013 Jan 23, doi: 10.1038/nature11837, Science for Life Laboratory, Department of Medical Biochemistry and Microbiology, Uppsala University, 75237 Uppsala, Sweden
  3. Animal Health Diagnostic Center, Cornell University School of Veterinary Medicine
  4. 11/17/2014 Removed: “So, without salivary amylase, a dog’s carbohydrate digestion can be decidedly more difficult.”
  • dave smelley

    If they need all that in their diet then why do they have a short intestinal tract so they can push through quickly, decaying and rotting animal flesh, animal protein and cholesterol

    Also the body produces Taurine itself and just the right amount

    You can create anything out of plant based foods now, nutrients are from the plant kingdom not the animals kingdom, now we are in the future we can create foods what benefit all carnivores without killing

  • WorkersUnited111

    Dude look at that website. You might as as well go to Iamright.com.

  • WorkersUnited111

    You’re abusing your pets.

  • Madeline Cohn

    No offense…..but I am vegan and there is no way I’d even suggest my cat be vegan also. To be fair, almost every consumer in the US trusts what manufacturers of so-called “free” and “fair-trade” products, if you read the fine print of what “organic” actually means you will be highly disappointed. There is a lot of room for hidden agendas in the products we use, ergo your cat supposedly liking that vegan food just means they most likely added chemicals to it that the FDA does not force them to label. In products for animal consumption, the laws are virtually non-existent. So before you go thinking that it’s so great to force your cat to be vegan, please consider that feeding them lab created chemicals vs. feeding them meat that the latter is always a better choice. I’m a biologist, I’ve had my fair share of work in and with the government so I’m not some uniformed person…..and no I will not disclose how I know these things to be true. If you have real access to scientific journals and data (ie through a research university or laboratory) then you can find the scientific evidence you want so much. These things aren’t open to the general public, otherwise our consumer system would fall into chaos. Thank you.

  • Madeline Cohn

    Being a biologist has something to do with it I would say…..

  • rebecca

    If you want an animal that eats the same as you get a rabbit… Please deposit your dog and cat at the local shelter so they have a chance at a normal healthy life…. Go get a rabbit or guinie pig if you want your animals to eat the same diet as you, don’t force an animal not meant for your diet to have it!!

  • Antonio Fisher

    http://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/01fd174f97910771cf6ab57e52c117a5580657328ffe77f9e67309e883f9cd08.jpg I honestly had no idea this was still being debating on DFA, but I still stand behind my original statement, and do appreciate your opinion and perspective. We have to continue to do what works for us and our K9 buddies. I’ll stick with a method and philosophy that’s continued to give me many great years from my dogs, and you should continue with your methods of upkeep as you feel they are best for you K9 pals. Best of luck

  • nickrin

    No, wolves are HUNTERS. Their social structure and cohesion therein depends on their drive for the hunt. You really need to inform yourselves. I strongly recommend Kevin Behan amd many other books on the subject.

  • Cheesecake Captain

    Although you may have a point with dogs, Cats are obligate carnivores, meaning they NEED flesh tissue in their diet which composes of certain nutrients only found in animal tissue, which they can’t naturally produce through metabolism, otherwise they become nutritionally deficient.

    If you are not feeding your cat animal products, you are nutritionally staving your own pet and leaving it open to health issues.

    For example, cats can only get taurine from meat or animal products. If you are not feeding this to your cat, it is at high risk of going blind and having retina problems.

    Your should not be making this comment public. It is animal abuse in my view.

  • theBCnut

    I wish you and her health and long life. I just read an article a couple days ago about feeding cats vegan, and it strongly suggested annual bloodwork. Good luck!

  • Mantas Meškerys

    Well guys, this has been and awesome discussion. I think we all shared some interesting infos and like before it’s up to each of us to decide what we believe is right or wrong. To conclude I would like to say, that in my opinion the best thing to do for pet is to love him with all your heart and to take care of his personal needs. Somehow I believe that like humans, every cat and dog is different too. Our cat decided that vegan food is awesome for her to have at home. And we agreed. We will give you feedback years later how is she doing. Let’s keep it cool. 😉 Peace out, friends.

  • aimee

    Not aware of any vegetarian or vegan for cats from any of the companies I’m familiar with. There are diets for dogs that are vegetarian that may also be vegan.

  • theBCnut

    My cats’ favorite foods are fresh rabbit followed by fresh quail. I can provide both of these as raw food, but they show a definite preference for catching their own. It’s far less processed than any commercial cat food.

  • Pitlove

    I just learned that we have a customer at work that buys feeder mice for his cat to eat. I thought that was interesting.

  • Hi Mantas Meškerys

    You bring up some excellent points!

    It’s funny how some people will focus only on the “meat” when discussing what’s a natural diet for a cat. And you will hear over and over that a cat is an “obligate carnivore” as a reason why you should NOT feed them a vegan or vegetarian diet.

    BUT, these same people will feed their “obligate carnivore” kibble or canned foods. Why, because they focus on the “meat” part of the diet and they disregard everything that’s “unnatural” about the diet.

    They disregard the;

    – High heat processing of the meat which creates carcinogens.

    – Use of starches that are needed to hold the kibble together.

    – Fact that vital nutrients are destroyed during processing and must be artificially added back to the food.

    – Fact that the meat used is the by product, basically the waste leftover from human food production

    – Totally unnatural feeding of a dry or cooked diet to any carnivore, obligate or otherwise.

    – Fact that the meats in most commercial foods are from animals raised in such disgustingly inhumane conditions, that we should be ashamed of ourselves for inflicting this kind of torture on any animal, food or otherwise.

    And, yes it would be;

    “pretty cool if a creature can live without another creature having to die.”

    Especially the animals we keep as pets, because they are far removed from their natural environment.

    Our pets don’t have to hunt to survive, and in the wild there are no cans or bags of mistreated, mass produced animals.

    But hey, at least there’s meat in it 😉

  • LabsRawesome

    My cat catches flies with one paw, then she uses her paw like a hand to bring the fly up to her mouth to eat it. 🙂

  • LabsRawesome

    The reason the meat is more natural for a cat is because they are an obligate carnivore.

  • Crazy4dogs

    I understand your point, and in nature the cats would in fact be hunting mice, small birds, chipmunks, even bugs. I’ve seen my cats catch and eat bugs too. You are correct regarding pet food. Pet food is a convenience for us.

    The reason I consider the slaughterhouse waste more natural is that it’s animal based vs plant based and a cat is an obligate carnivore, not an omnivore or herbivore.

  • Mantas Meškerys

    I just don’t get how meat that was killed by humans and processed with machines that was made by humans can be called “natural” to a cat. And how is it “more natural” than a food that was also made by humans and processed with machines, but just don’t include meat. I agree with all of you that cats like to hunt, but hey guys, they hunt small animals like mice and birds, they don’t hunt cows of sheeps. I think if we are talking about “naturality”, we shouldn’t be talking about pet food at all, because it’s made by humans in a fabric, and animals they put in the food have fallen dead not in a equal fight in a nature, where the animal can run away or fight back, but they were born in a farms, where they were kept closed and had no chance for gaining “natural” instincts to fight against a human being.

    Natural food for cats is to go out and hunt a smaller animal as I see, and since I love what is natural I dont prohibit my cat to do that – she can always do that. But at home she really enjoys AmiCat vegan food and looks healthy as far. Of course tests will be done because we are in critical sense and we have read some infos and recommendations of vet’s before we started to give vegan food to our cat. After the test are done, sure I will give you guys some update over here.

    As I said – great discussion. Very fluent and very sophisticated. Not a common thing nowadays on the internet. 😉

  • Pitlove

    Very well put, Aimee. I completely agree. I do not believe any of the companies that do have nutrionists on staff have even attempted to create a vegan diet for dogs or cats. Are you aware of any?

  • aimee

    Hi Mantas,

    I’m pretty flexible when it comes to feeding but I have to say vegan diets in cats make me nervous. It isn’t that it can’t be done but I think it is very very difficult and I don’t think I could trust most manufactures to do it correctly.

    There have been a few publications that evaluated vegan and vegetarian diets and when tested many fell short in regard to having appropriate Amino Acid profiles.

    If I were to feed this way I’d select a food from a company that has veterinary nutritionists on staff and I’d have a plasma amino acid profile including taurine checked in accordance with my vet’s recommendation. I think UC Davis provides this service. And I’d likely have a vet exam every 6 months just to get an objective second set of eyes to monitor my pet’s health.

  • theBCnut

    Yep, some of the dog food suppliers are buying up gullet because humans don’t eat it, but they aren’t removing the thyroid gland before processing the gullet, so they end up with a great thyroid supplement for hypothyroid dogs, but a lousy food for every day consumption in a normal dog.

  • Babslynne

    I agree, in fact here is an article about how they are connecting hyperthyroidism with thyroid tissue in slaughter house waste going into dog food. http://truthaboutpetfood.com/diet-related-hyperthyroidism/

  • theBCnut

    I wish someone would tell my JRT that she is not a hunting dog, because hunt is ALL she does. And I used the modified hunting instinct of my Border Collies to bring in my sheep and goats each night. It is true that with careful breeding that hunting instinct can be bred out, but I don’t think that has happened yet with cats. Their instinct isn’t based on what they eat.

    Oh, and my sheep are short haired. Different hair lengths have always existed, just in different areas. Short haired breeds are usually from Africa.

    I agree, nice discussion.

  • theBCnut

    Waste by-products from slaughterhouses may sound bad, but it actually means the animal parts that humans don’t eat, not waste as in feces. It can be poor quality or good. When cats make a kill they eat the by-products first. These contain dense nutrition. After that, they eat as much of the rest of their kill as they want, often leaving some of the muscle meat. To a cat, CLEAN by-products are important.

  • Crazy4dogs

    There are many formulas that are made of quality ingredients, some like The Honest Kitchen, are human grade.

    I absolutely agree with you regarding cannibalism, which possibly caused Mad Cow Disease when cattle (true herbivores) were fed proteins made from meat and bone meal from cattle. This was a form of cannibalism.

    Unfortunately, feeding inappropriately to a species can be troublesome as well. Just as you wouldn’t feed a horse or a cow (strict herbivores) meat, I would worry about feeding an obligate carnivore a vegan diet even though it’s “complete and balanced” since it’s using synthetically produced vitamins, minerals and amino acids to achieve this. In my opinion this is less natural than feeding slaughterhouse waste.

    Here’s a link on feeding cats:

    http://www.catinfo.org/

  • LabsRawesome

    No that will not happen. Your logic is flawed because cats have been domesticated for a long time already, and they have retained all of their natural insticts . Feeding them a vegan diet will never change the fact that they are obligate carnivores.

  • LabsRawesome

    Hahaha. When people try to justify feeding an obligate carnivore a vegan diet by saying that everything the cat needs can be added chemically. I kind of tend to get a little sarcastic, the insanity of their reasoning makes me do it.

  • Crazy4cats

    Well, honestly, Mantas, that is exactly what most of my cats would be doing if I did not rescue them. My oldest cat, I trapped about 16 years ago. She was living under my Grandma’s porch. She most likely was living on rodents and birds before I caught her. My cats are all doing just great. Thank you for your concern.

  • Crazy4dogs

    These are nice thoughts, but I can’t say I agree. I have Labs that are well fed and have never been hunting dogs. They chase the small animals all over the yard and have eaten the occaisonal baby bunny that they caught, right after dinner.
    I’ve had many friendly cats that would come when called and lived very happy domestic lives within the family confines but were allowed access to the outdoors. They were more than happy to bring their mouse kill to the kitchen door at dinner time.
    If it weren’t for cats and dogs that were bred to be “ratters” many homes would have been be overrun with mice and rats. Vermin often carry disease and do eat through the bags of food in your cabinets. I live near open areas and farm fields and there is nothing worse than trying to make dinner and having a mouse crawl out of the stove top.
    Nature itself has installed many checks and balances. While we tame and keep many of these animals as pets, in nature they would overproduce without the predators, causing an imbalance in nature itself. Just as an example, too many bunnies (I know they’re cute) would devastate crops or starve to death after consuming all of the plant life. Deer overpopulation leads to forest destruction in newly formed areas and slow starvation in the winter months when there is little food to eat.
    I am not a hunter by any means and am very fond of wildlife. I’m also a firm believer in humane treatment and freedom of all animals used by humans for sustenance or any commercial reason, but I understand that nature is a balance of life and requires the predators to keep the balance.

  • theBCnut

    Your sarcasm button is on the fritz again…just sayin’.

  • Pitlove

    Very easy to avoid foods that use undesirable ingredients.

  • Mantas Meškerys

    Yeah, we used to feed our cat wet food and kibble too. Until we found out that meat ingriedients in that food can sometimes be a waste byproducts of slaughterhouse or even other cats and dogs from roadkill. I dont feel that canibalism or eating waste is natural for any species of this planet. It’s just not cool, you know.

  • Mantas Meškerys

    As the history of this planet and the human race shows – intervention causes evolution. There were wild dogs who were hunting other animals and since a human being intervented now we have dogs that are friendly and not hunting. There were sheep’s that weren’t growing so much wool and didnt need a human to cut them to survive, but now we have it. There were cats who are agressive and hunting like lions, lynx etc, but now we have a home-cat which is friendly and neat, because we intervented. There was an ice age on this planet, but now we have a climate warming going, because we intervented. All I am saying that in my opinion there is no absolute constancy about nature facts, cause nature facts can change as time goes by and the conditions changes. Of course the changes are slow and takes hundreds of years to notice that and I dont think that my cat is going to loose her instincts to hunt and kill, but maybe if bigger amount of people would feed their cats on vegan food, maybe after a thousand year or so the cats won’t crave for hunting anymore, because there will be no such genetical memory in them. I’m just wondering you know. Nice discussion guys. 😉

  • Hi Labs, you said;

    “Shawna never said that she was for animal cruelty.”

    I couldn’t agree with you more 😉

  • LabsRawesome

    I’m absolutely positive that the chemically synthesized taurine is is 100% better for a cat than natural sources could ever be. Just like it’s better for humans to get all their nutrition from vitamin pills. lol

  • LabsRawesome

    There is no way that feeding a cat vegan will cause it to lose it’s natural prey instincts. If anything it would probably make the cat hunt even more, to satisfy it’s natural instincts to eat meat. Cats are obligate carnivores, no amount of mans intervention will ever change that fact.

  • LabsRawesome

    Shawna never said that she was for animal cruelty. Where do you come up with such crazy rants. It seems to me that you always post inflammatory remarks, just to stir the pot. And why do you always tell everyone what they wrote? I’m pretty sure they know what they wrote.

  • Hi Shawna, you wrote;

    “I’ve often wondered how many animals would be extinct if man didn’t value them for food or beasts of burden?”

    That’s an interesting question! While I don’t know your personal reasons for asking that question, the only time I’ve heard it asked previously, is in discussions about the inhumane way we treat food animals in Concentrated Animal Food Operations (CAFO’s).

    It was used as a kind of justification for cows and chickens, etc, living horrendous lives, swimming in their own feces, packed together like sardines in a can, being pumped full of antibiotics so they could survive in shameful conditions where their fed disgustingly inappropriate diets, occasionally tortured and so on.

    It was as if to say, well it’s okay, because if they weren’t being tortured, then they wouldn’t exist at all!

  • theBCnut

    The only other thing I would mention is, is this a GMO free food? Because it is heavy with ingredients that can be GMO and those tend to have residual chemicals that can be problematic.

  • Crazy4cats

    Just surprised that a cat would lose that desire/instinct to hunt no matter what she is fed. All of my cats are indoor only except for the enclosure I have set up for them outside our downstairs slider. One of them got out into the garage a few months ago and I found him out there flipping around a mouse. He is very well fed and has no need to kill a mouse to survive. But, there he was in all his glory, proud as could be with a mouse hanging out of his mouth. He was four years old and had never seen a mouse before. All four of them sit in our windows twitching their tails and making clicking sounds when they see a bird or squirrel in our yard. I just thought it was something they were born to do.

    Honestly, I do not miss them killing birds. My previous crew of cats were indoor/outdoor and would occasionally catch a bird. It really did bother me. Especially if they brought them in still alive! Lol!

    I feed mine mostly wet food with a bit of kibble. I wouldn’t feed them a vegan diet, but I wish you well.

  • Shawna

    That’s interesting!!

    I try to respect animals as much as I can, to the point of relocating ants and spiders in my home or swerving my car so as not to hit a mouse. We lived in the country when I was growing up so that drove my dad crazy. 🙂 I found through eating a vegetarian diet for a year that I do better with some meat based protein in my diet. I do best without grains as well. Thankfully, I LOVE veggies.

    I’ve often wondered how many animals would be extinct if man didn’t value them for food or beasts of burden?

  • Shawna

    I looked it up after BC posted and apparently, if wiki is correctk it can be synthetically created in a lab.

    “Chemical synthesis and commercial production

    Synthetic taurine is obtained from isethionic acid (2-hydroxyethanesulfonic acid), which in turn is obtained from the reaction of ethylene oxide with aqueous sodium bisulfite. Another approach is the reaction of aziridine with sulfurous acid. This leads directly to taurine.[20]

    In 1993, about 5,000–6,000 tons of taurine were produced for commercial purposes; 50% for pet food manufacture and 50% in pharmaceutical applications.[21] As of 2010, China alone has more than 40 manufacturers of taurine. Most of these enterprises employ the ethanolamine method to produce a total annual production of about 3,000 tons.[22]” https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taurine

  • Mantas Meškerys

    I am not stating anything. All I am saying that the cat has it’s freedom to eat and do whatever she wants. And I don’t see her killing birds and mice. Maybe I just don’t see it because I dont look what she does in the yard 24/7, but what I see at home is that she really likes vegan food and she is energized, playful and healthy more than before she ate this food. Actually for first year of her life she was fed meat-based foods like royal cannin etc. but as we brought her the vegan food just to see if she likes it, she just got crazy over it and since she dont want to eat meat based food. Hopefully it stays that way, because I think that it’s pretty cool if a creature can live without another creature having to die. Don’t you think so?

  • Crazy4dogs

    Apparently they’re using a vegetable based or chemically produced taurine. I’m not sure how bioavailable that would be for a cat.

    Description

    The famous vegan cat food from Italy is finally available in the USA! The most comprehensive vegan cat kibble available, Ami Cat is produced with entirely natural ingredients and without slaughterhouse by-products, food dyes, GMO ingredients or artificial preservatives. Ami Cat is formulated to keep your cat in the best of health, improving their shape, hair, and muscular tone. Ami Cat is a complete and balanced food, enriched with Taurine, a vitally important nutrient for cats that must be included in their diet.

    This essential protein with amino-acidic chain can now be reproduced without using meat, where it is normally present in the muscular tissue. The absence of Taurine in cats’ diets can lead to serious diseases and/or death. Its presence in Ami Cat, together with the natural and healthy ingredients that characterize the product, keeps your cats in good health and fine shape. In addition to Taurine, Ami food contains other essential nutrients that cats require including preformed Vitamin A and Arachidonic Acid as well as B Vitamins and other Amino Acids.

    Ami Cat also contains the right amount of magnesium to prevent the serious problems that can occur from its lack (hyper-excitability, soft tissue calcification, metaphysos swelling) or its surplus (uralthiasis and cystitis).

    Ami Cat is a complete food enriched with vitamins and minerals, as well as omega 3s and 6s to provide optimal health for your beloved feline companions.

  • Mantas Meškerys

    Thanks for the info, Shawna. Nice to have you on this cool discussion.

  • Shawna

    Cats and dogs certainly can live on a vegan diet, there is no denying that. I’m not sure I would agree that most are truly “healthy” though. Cancer, kidney and liver disease, cardiomyopathy etc all take time to manifest. Once the disease hits, the pet was on the food for years with no issues so couldn’t be the food. In kidney disease, at least 70% of the kidneys have to be damaged before symptoms even start to show up (a kibble diet, especially with poor quality proteins, is the WORST diet you can feed a cat (or dog) with kidney disease).

    For the record though, I’m not saying a meat based kibble diet will prevent any of these illnesses – or even that a raw diet will. But I am saying that a diet more closely resembling the natural diet will get you much much closer to true, vibrant health.

  • Shawna

    This is the ingredient list from the link you provided
    “Corn, Corn gluten, corn oil, rice, pea protein, pea fiber, Brewer’s yeast, dicalcium phosphate, linseed, hydrolysed vegetable protein, potato protein, sodium chloride, calcium carbonate, rapeseed oil.”

    Corn gluten, pea protein and potato protein are all known allergens and can cause issues like colitis, possibly villous atophy and other illnesses including autoimmune disease. That said, it only happens in animals that are “sensitive” to the particular food. If you start seeing any of these symptoms, I would first look to the food as a possible cause. In addition — it’s just not these foods that can do this. My Pom gets colitis from chicken.

    The food also has “hydrolyzed” vegetable protein. Anything hydrolyzed is a source of the “g” (free glutamic acid (as well as free aspartic acid – like what’s in aspartame)) in MSG and can potentially cause symptoms over time just like in humans.

    I also don’t see a source of omega 3 at all (let alone a source of DHA/EPA).

  • Crazy4cats

    Are you stating that because you feed her vegan, she lost her instincts to stalk and hunt birds and mice?

  • Mantas Meškerys

    There is taurine in this food. I am not sure how they make it. My cat eats like this for 3 months, so I cannot tell you about long term effects. But I did research on the internet and it seems that there are many cats and dogs who live healthy and there are no problems long term, when fed correctly vegan diet.

  • Mantas Meškerys

    This is a full information about the food we give to our cat. If you find something that is harmful for sure, please tell me: http://www.amipetfood.com/en/products/products-for-cats/amicat

  • theBCnut

    As a “vegan” diet, I wonder if they have found a way to manufacture taurine from plant matter, or if it isn’t truly vegan or if it doesn’t have taurine in it.

  • Crazy4dogs

    The problem with a vegan diet is that the reason the cats are surviving is not because it’s the correct diet, but that the correct artificial/manufactured vitamins, minerals and amino acids are added to the inadequate diet to allow survival.
    I agree with theBCnut as many cats are now considered old in their early teens and often suffer from a myriad of health issues such as diabetes, kidney and bladder problems brought on by the unnatural, manufactured diets.

  • theBCnut

    I think one of e.d.’s points is that this is a highly processed food, artificially created so that cats can survive on it. Personally, I keep seeing where highly processed foods are not healthy and I’ve known very few cats or dogs that have lived a natural life span into their 20s, so I tend to think that highly processed foods aren’t good for cats either. They may live in the short term, but I think in the long term, you will be much more likely to see the types of health problems that crop up with processed foods. For your cat’s sake, I hope your experiment works for you, but for my animal’s sake, I’ll try to feed a more natural diet.

  • Mantas Meškerys

    Depends what is evidence to you. There are many cats in the world living vegan – no meat, no dairy and living healthy. I have a cat that we feed AmiCat vegan food for 3months. This food is based on plant ingridients and has all the neccesary nutrients added, as “el doctor” correctly said. The result is – she is healthy, strong and happy. And she loves that food. She also goes out and she never catches birds, mice or other living creatures. That brings me to the theory that carnivores are rapacious against other sentient beings just because they need to survive. In the nature they would not get all the nutrients just from plants I guess, so they seek for meat. But at the home conditions, where we, humans, are able to give the nutrient-full food to them, they dont need to kill others to live. That is just my theory. Decide yourself if it’s mounting enough for you.

  • wolfdogged

    Plenty of info available. Google for more.
    https://books.google.com/books?id=2hDMAwAAQBAJ&pg=PT425&lpg=PT425&dq=facultative+carnivores+definition&source=bl&ots=Z4fQluArgw&sig=ASk_VmjaP0a1q82F8tvTm77K3ds&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwid8ISNhpPKAhVR72MKHYBrDWA4ChDoAQgfMAE#v=onepage&q=facultative%20carnivores%20definition&f=false

    Only obligate carnivores require meat in the long term. Not that I would choose it, but there’s vegan dog food even though canines are not herbivores

    I do not agree with anything you wrote whatsoever.

  • tansysmom

    You seriously can’t figure that out?

  • Satan

    Maybe if you put a bit of effort before complaining, you could see the scientific research done at the bottom of the page.

  • nickrin

    The material in that food is so heavily processed and cooked, that they have to add all the nutrients that were lost during the processing. I can assure you that you’re dogs are not on a species appropriate diet, anecdotal evidence aside. If you feed your dog plant food, it will come out the other end undigested just as humans cannot possibly process cellulose.

  • nickrin

    Hmmm, is there any research pointing to the fact that canines are facultative carnivores? And you have your definition all mixed up. You meant to say facultative hebivore because a dog needs meat to survive even for a few years.

  • nickrin

    LOL. Vegan cats? Is the evidence mounting?

  • nickrin

    Nonsense. Dogs can survive on an omnivorous diet but it takes a heavy toll on the systems. Every bit of research points to canines being carnivorous from an anatomical, GI and metabolic/biochemical standpoint.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Origin_of_the_domestic_dog

    The origin of the domestic dog (Canis lupus familiaris or Canis familiaris) is not clear. Whole genome sequencing indicates that the dog, the gray wolf, and the extinct Taymyr wolf diverged at around the same time 27,000–40,000 years before present (YBP).[1] These dates imply that the earliest dogs arose in the time of human hunter-gatherers and not agriculturists.

  • nickrin

    No you haven’t.

  • nickrin

    Nope. They do no such thing. Get it through your skull, dogs do not have the enzymes nor the flora to break down plant materials. End of story and discussion. Even feeding BARF diets, whereby it was believed that the contents of the small intestine is beneficial, have slowly lost favor because wolves are known to shake out the contents before ingesting the small intestine of prey.

  • nickrin

    What is an evolutionary omnivore? LOL

  • nickrin

    I’m sorry, which studies point to the fact that a canine, species appropriate diet includes plant/vegetables/starch?

  • nickrin

    Wow, such ignorance. A dog will NOT thrive without meat, a dog will develop an inflamed digestive track on vegetable/plant sources, a dog’s intestinal tract is too small and lacks he flora to digest plant based material, a dog does not have the oral anatomy to chew plant material, a dog’s bile is made to breakup animal lipids and the list goes on and on. The science is inescapable, your incredulity notwithstanding. Try feeding your cow a steak, won’t you.

  • theBCnut

    Chocolate is bad for all dogs, but it is dose dependent, so I would guess that the Easter Bunny had very little real chocolate in it. The toxicity dose for milk chocolate is about 1 ounce per pound of body weight and since Easter Bunnies are usually thin and hollow, I would assume that the dog just didn’t get enough. Thank goodness. Next time, it might not be so lucky, if someone thinks it is immune to chocolate. Dogs can also get severe diarrhea from chocolate without ever getting near a toxic dose.

  • GrammarTroll!

    Chocolate actually causes a reaction in most dogs, but not all. My moms miniature Pinscher ate an entire milk chocolate bunny at Easter years ago that was almost as large as she was. Didn’t hurt her at all, but all of the other dogs that I know have eaten chocolate did not fair as well.

  • GrammarTroll!

    If you’re having trouble digesting raw veggies as a human, there’s probably a much bigger issue going on. Raw vegetables are one of the most nutrient-dense foods we can eat. If your body isn’t processing them well, you should start a probiotic to help you clean out your gut.

  • GrammarTroll!

    That last comma should be a semi-colon. How uncool does a person have to be to attack someone else’s punctuation and grammar and then follow it up with such a brazen disregard for their own comma usage?

  • Stina Stine

    You’re missing so many commas here it’s laughable. You’re also missing either a semi-colon or a period, although the former would be a much better choice if you care about eloquence at all.

  • Stina Stine

    Well, if we’re going to split hairs here, your above comment is missing a very important comma, because without it the sentence is fragmented. The phrase as you wrote it is most definitely not a complete sentence; it’s actually a subordinate clause. Had you put a comma after the word “comma” (ironic, eh? lol), you would’ve turned that subordinate clause into the sentence you wanted it to be (subordinate clause followed by a comma and then the necessary insubordinate clause). The way you wrote it, sans the comma, makes it seem like the word “comma” is the item being listed as opposed to the intended “cud-chewing cows, pigs, etc.” I don’t think that’s what you meant, is it?

    For the record, counselor, a comma can also mean “or.” Hopefully you’re more effective in the courtroom than on this thread, because it’s hard to argue credibly when your own argument is flawed.

  • disqus_MmtmarMT3u

    To clarify, I was not referring to personal spending when I wrote that meat production is more costly. The cheapest dog foods on the market are meat flavored.

    I think you are mistaking your own adamant enthusiasm for being mine. I don’t think I’m being pathologically defensive by claiming that this author is lying about his views being scientific. The current scientific understanding is the opposite of what he states. In fact, if you venture to the extreme of feeding only meat, there are documented health risks. However, all the studies on vegetarian diets show no risks or bad outcomes. Why is that?

    Claims I am writing can be verified in mainstream scientific journals. Google Scholar is your friend. What informs your confidence?

  • Madeline Cohn

    People are crazy thinking that making their pet eat like them is normal (I’m vegan and so is my dog/cat). Do people force their rabbits to eat meat too? What is this world coming to?

  • Madeline Cohn

    People who are so adament or on the defensive feel guilty about the WRONG choices they are making. Forcing a genetically carnivorous creature to eat vegetables, fruits, and carbs because you want to save money or because you believe your pet is like you is just ridiculous. Maybe you should just eat tree bark and pine needles….. You could then save money to buy your pet meat and if you refuse to live eating something outside of your “typical diet” then you shouldn’t force your poor pet to. Food for thought.

  • theamericandreamdavidporter

    Nope. Sorry I have seen wolves eating melons, berries, corn, and grass. This is not omnivorous behavior

  • tansysmom

    Falsehood? Not likely, David. The notion that wolves and coyotes need vegetation (as from the stomach contents of their prey) has been debunked by a number of experts. Likewise, the idea that dogs need fruit and veggies in anything more than trace amounts has been found to be inaccurate.

  • el doctor

    Hi Pitlove

    An “obligate carnivore” in today’s world of packaged, processed and supplemented foods, can have all it’s nutritional needs met by ADDING the nutrients found only in meat to just about any diet at all.

  • theamericandreamdavidporter

    Quite the falsehood. Dogs are omnivorous canines in general, dogs in particular are omnivorous. Wolves and Coyotes have to eat vegetation to balance out their digestive tract or suffer liver and kidney failure.
    Dogs have evolved thru our interference with the ancient gray wolf into a very diverse omnivore.

  • disqus_MmtmarMT3u

    Natural law is magical thinking that shows you are not being scientific. Your appeal to ‘nature’ is actually an appeal to tradition. It is a classic logical fallacy. You might as well suggest that a dog cannot thrive if it lives with people because that is not it’s ‘true nature.’ After all, it evolved from an animal that avoids people. It’s also pathetic how your link to ‘scientific evidence’ comes right back to your own website, with another page of opinions. On the contrary, you are rejecting science and our ability to engineer our needs with less resources and less waste.
    What we know to be true from empirical evidence is that a dog can eat meat or not, with no known difference in outcome. Claiming that a dog will not thrive without meat is as much a lie as claiming a dog will not thrive if it does eat meat. In terms of health and happiness for the dog, there is no known difference. In terms of production, meat is far more costly.

  • DogFoodie

    Gotcha.

  • Mantas Meškerys

    Yes, dear DogFoodier, I do. That’s why I am posting this so openly and with a cool look on my face. 🙂

  • Crazy4dogs

    Poor grammar? LOL! 😉

  • Crazy4dogs

    What?????

  • Pitlove

    “cats are doing well without meat lately”– lately…what changed in your opinion? cats are still obligate carnivores, meaning they need meat for survival.

  • DogFoodie

    Nothing good to nobody? You realize what that means, right?

  • Mantas Meškerys

    ” Not everyone can or wants to feed raw, whether for financial, moral, or whatever reasons.” – But everyone should, because eating meat is actually doing nothing good to nobody.

  • Mantas Meškerys

    Sory, dude, your knowledge is based on the past. Cats are doing well without meat lately. http://www.vegancatstories.com/

  • Crazy4dogs

    Yay!!! It looks like her posts were deleted! 🙂

  • Crazy4cats

    I think it’s finally over!

  • Bobby dog

    Maybe she should have consulted you before choosing another avatar.

  • el doctor
  • Crazy4dogs

    Wow, I’m so unsavvy! Thanks again BD! 🙂

  • Bobby dog

    😉

  • Crazy4dogs

    Do ya think?! Haha! 😉

  • Crazy4cats

    Hmmmmm? Could it be RAW, perhaps?

  • Bobby dog

    The writing style is very similar…..hmmmmmmmm. I wonder what kind of food Mike feeds his dog(s)!?!? Just type “comment history” in the search box.

  • Crazy4dogs

    Thanks for the confirmation BD! You are amazing! 🙂 I was sure it changed, as did her less than nice reply to me disappeared. How did you do that? Also, is Mike aka karen, aka as Nature intended???

  • Bobby dog

    Hi C4d:
    You are correct in your response to Karen, I mean Mike. An exclamation point was swapped out for a question mark. Here is the original unedited version which you can find in the comment history along with the other comment she deleted from this page:

    As Nature Intended on Are Dogs Carnivores — or Omnivores? “Of course it is. Made up by commercial pet food companies!!”
    http://www.dogfoodadvisor.com/comment-history/page/5

  • Crazy4dogs

    I’m not positive, but I think the post was edited when we asked which companies and to cite sources as I noticed the question mark after our posts. There had been another comment which is gone. Honestly, asking for information and to cite sources isn’t bullying. If you make statements regarding companies or products you need to be able to back it up. Posters often make incorrect comments based on Internet rumors & people think they’re true, which is why many ask for sources.

  • Mike Turner

    I read it as if she is ASKING, was this made up by the pet food companies.

    It’s clearly not a statement, but a question so how can she??

  • Pitlove

    Hi- We asked her to cite her source that it was made up by commercial pet food companies and which companies said it. It’s not bullying.

  • Mike Turner

    This is a question, not a statement.
    It’s ok Karen, it’s plain to see that these people are showing their intelligence here. Which to me looks like a form of bullying.
    Yes, I agree, of course it is a myth!!
    I too am yet to find a study that validates that meat is known to weaken the immune system and promote cancer growth in a dog Krem.

  • Crazy4dogs

    I realize you have a facebook page that you invited people on this site to visit…….over and over again.

    How would you feel if the very same people that you keep negatively commenting on went to your page to tear apart all of your advice and make negative comments? Not everyone can or wants to feed raw, whether for financial, moral, or whatever reasons.

    I agree with Bobby dog and el doctor. Your continuous comments are counterproductive to your cause. I do feed raw and fresh in rotation, but if I weren’t I would be hard pressed to be convinced by your form of persuasion.

  • Bobby dog

    For you to use Dr. King’s words to further your agenda, well it further proves your astounding ignorance. ~ Bobby dog

  • Pitlove

    I swear Karen will never listen.

  • el doctor

    Here is some food for thought.

    Comments like the one you posted to Kim are not going to help your cause, they are going to alienate people from you and your cause.

    I think you probably have done more harm than good on the Dog Food Advisor in your quest to convince people they should feed raw instead of processed foods like kibble.

    BTW, I agree that dogs should be fed a minimally processed diet.

  • Yes, but dogs are not scavengers!!

  • “Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity.”
    ― Martin Luther King Jr.

  • Nicholas DeShane

    Or owning a damn rabbit instead of committing animal abuse you jackasses. It is arrogant and egotistical to force human idealism on an animal. If you can’t respect an animal is not just being a human wearing fur don’t own one.

  • Pitlove

    I’m sure she is serious. We like knowing where people’s information comes from.

  • InkedMarie

    You’re the one who said “Of course it is. Made up by commercial pet food companies?!” . DF asked for sources for what YOU said.

  • aquariangt

    haha, the troll gets trolled. You speak with enough vehemence I’d certainly hope you have some citations

  • And you too.. Get off my back.. How the hell would I know, that’s what I was asking??!

  • Are you serious? Get off my back

  • Can’t imagine the stench

  • Exactly! Processed commercial pet food is doggy MacDonalds!

  • Crazy4dogs

    Which companies have said this? I can’t think of any.

  • DogFoodie

    Can you site your source for this, please.

  • Of course it is. Made up by commercial pet food companies!!

  • Krem Finglestein

    Gut flora is not static in a species and can be changed by changes in diet. So the question is, do modern dogs have a different. Flora because of the diet that has been traditionally given to them as part of domestication?

  • Krem Finglestein

    Show me one study that validates that meat is known to weaken the immune system and promote cancer growth in a dog. I believe that is a myth

  • Joel Copeland

    So, you intend on subverting Nature and accelerating the evolution process single-handedly? You can buy meats for carnivores that are not filled with preservatives and hormones; all the things which help engender unhealthy issues such as cancer. And I will personally bet that you will hear about Natural Balance including animal protein in their food, because a “vegan” is simply a marketing ploy for kooks like you.

  • tansysmom

    Dogs are evolutionary omnivores but are genetically carnivorous. This means they are opportunistic eaters. They can subsist on sub-optimal foods but will be far healthier on a heavily meat-based diet. I’m talking about real meat, not that stuff that comes in a bag from the pet aisle of the grocery store.

    I am appalled by the number of grain-based dogfood recipes that come highly recommended. It’s difficult to find even one that isn’t at least 60% rice, which is nothing more than cheap filler and completely lacking in the kind of nutrition a dog needs. This no doubt stems from the misguided notion that what we feed our pets must be dirt-cheap in order for us to find it acceptable. Then, of course, we must spend a ton of money on doggie supplements to fill the many gaps left by a substandard diet, in addition to numerous expensive visits to the vet when the health issues begin to crop up.

  • Joe Conley
  • Stevenlm831

    Dogs have an instinctual bias toward meat. Children do not have an instinctual bias toward sugar. Just like any human that tastes sugar they will begin to crave it. I also believe you missed the point. It specifically states that a dog can survive on practically anything. However, the point is to show that dogs are biased carnivores and should probably be treated as such. Forcing a creamy ideology, literally, down the dog’s throat is not right. Please never own a cat. They are obligate carnivores.

  • Stevenlm831

    I think you completely missed the point or are trying to justify turning your dog into a vegan. Dogs can certainly survive on plant matter. Canids and Ursids possess that unique ability. However, give the choice they will choose meat, besides a few outliers, e.g. The Panda. Because the natural preference is meat you should give it to them, and not try to stuff some misinformed ideology, literally, down their throats. For the cat owners, they are obligate carnivores and cannot survive without meat.

  • wolfdogged

    There are plenty of cases of humans living much longer than the average person, yet they spent most of their lives smoking a pack of cigarettes a day. Does that mean it’s okay for another person to smoke like that? Of course not. It just means that one guy that lived a while got lucky.

    If you want to take that chance with an unnatural vegan diet… fine. Good luck.

  • wolfdogged

    That dogs arose from arabian wolves is but one of numerous different “theories”. One of the more current theories, and seemingly gaining a lot of acceptance, is that dogs and wolves both evolved from a common ancestor that went extinct. These articles are good reading, both are about the same study co-written by Robert Wayne
    http://www.livescience.com/42649-dogs-closest-wolf-ancestors-extinct.html
    http://news.sciencemag.org/biology/2015/05/arctic-find-confirms-ancient-origin-dogs

    Further down in the comments I previously made the comparison of dogs with pandas…in detail. We are both essentially in agreement…except that it doesn’t make a dog a “true omnivore”. A true omnivore (bears) has no preference for either plant or meat material and will eat either, whichever it comes across first. Whereas canines have a definite and distinct preference for meat, no one can deny.

    Canids (dogs wolves etc) are facultative carnivores. Carnivores with omnivorous potential if circumstances demand. Meaning they primarily require meat protein as their main source of food, but their digestive systems can also handle moderate amounts of fiber and carbohydrates.

    btw “facultative” (dog) has the opposite definition of obligate carnivore (cats)
    Obligate carnivore in a word means “obligated” to eat meat)
    Facultative: a. Capable of occurring or not occurring; contingent. b. Not required or compulsory; optional.

    You stated, “This actually makes dogs omnivores, even though they come from the order carnivora.”

    All mammals in the order Carnivora ARE carnivores.
    Even “omnivorous carnivores” (omnivores) such as bears, and pandas too, whom have been shown to readily eat meat in captivity.

    For more info please google “facultative carnivore”

  • Stephanie L. Pyke

    first, dogs did not come from timber wolves, they came from gray wolves, the debate is between the tibetan wolf and the arabian wolf. It was significantly longer than 15,000 years, or the native americans would not have dogs. The first peoples brought fully domesticated dogs with them, not wolves. We have dog breeds, (Alaska Klee Kai, Chihuahua, Carolina Dog), that have genetic markers specific to the new world and nowhere else.

    second, if you want to compare how an herbivore is different from a carnivore, your case would be better served comparing dogs to pandas. Pandas are a carnivore with the guts, jaws and teeth of a carnivore, but it eats plants 99% of the time. The reason is due to the microbes in their gut and not the physical construction of their GI system. Dogs also have a differing gut flora from their wild ancestors, which gives them the ability to eat a wide variety of food that wolves can’t. Specifically, they also have gut flora that allows them to process carbs. They get this flora from eating poop.

    This actually makes dogs omnivores, even though they come from the order carnivora. This omnivory is not unique in the order. The feliformes are the ones who have a strict carnivorous bias. in contrast, there are plenty of examples of caniforms that are not strictly carnivorous: Raccoons, most bears, skunks, dogs, and red pandas.

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  • Crazy4dogs

    Yes, I agree. I meant to say home made food link.

  • aimee

    I think the entire purpose of the Golden study is to look for links between environmental/nutritional factors in cancer development and other disease states.

  • Crazy4dogs

    I’m not sure if the golden study would find a food related link in any way. I have several friends that breed and show goldens and from what I understand there were cancer genes passed down genetically from the founding dogs of the breed.

  • aimee

    Interesting! Apparently though, it seems that the anti cancer effect of the level of CLA in red meat in people isn’t enough to offset the “cancer promoting properties” for lack of better wording as higher red meat consumption is often associated with higher cancer rates in people.

  • aimee

    Honestly I don’t even know how valid the outcome from this study will prove to be. Hopefully the lifetime Golden study will give us some good data.

  • Shawna

    Some studies are showing cancer prevention due to the CLA from ruminants.

    This is also from 2000 and in the journal Oncology “Conjugated Linoleic Acid Inhibits Breast Cancer Carcinogenesis” http://www.cancernetwork.com/articles/conjugated-linoleic-acid-inhibits-breast-cancer-carcinogenesis

    “Ruminal bacteria are key to the formation of CLA which explains why CLA production is unique to and found almost exclusively in food products (milk and meat) produced from ruminant animals.” also from same paper “The major interest surrounding CLA is the anticarcinogenic or anti-cancer effects. The National Academy of Science publication entitled “Carcinogens and Anticarcinogens in the Human Diet stated that “conjugated linoleic acid is the only fatty acid shown unequivocally to inhibit carcinogenesis in experimental animals.” http://extension.psu.edu/animals/dairy/nutrition/nutrition-and-feeding/nutrition-and-health/conjugated-linoleic-acid-cla-implications-for-animal-production-and-human-health

  • Crazy4dogs

    Perhaps, but it’s very interesting that I couldn’t find any other study whatsoever regarding this. It seems to be pretty obscure. Both reports were essentially the same thing done by almost the same people and no one else seemed interested enough to continue the research in almost 20 years.

  • aimee

    Yes I know the paper is older but it is the only one of that type I’ve come across and I’ve seen cited. Clearly this is an area that needs further research.

  • Shawna

    Processed food is known to weaken the immune system.

    I appreciate that your dogs seem to be healthy on a highly processed food (be it meat based or vegetable based) but everyone has their stories. My Chihuahua ate a HIGH meat protein raw diet and when she passed at age 19 she had zero lumps and bumps, bloodwork was normal, no arthritis or ailments of any kind.

  • Shawna

    Diets based around red meats would be deficient in omega 6 fat (the omega found in chicken). I wonder if there would be any correlation?

  • Crazy4dogs

    Dori I found the links on that study. It was from Madrid, Spain in 1998, and the dogs were older, so I’m thinking no. The link is posted in reply to aimee.

  • Crazy4dogs

    aimee, do you realize that the first abstract you listed was done in 1998 on 188 dogs in Madrid, Spain? It seems that the most important factor was that the older dogs that had mammary tumors were obese before age 1? There were also a larger number of obese dogs at presentation. They did link red meat including beef and pork. The second link is from 2000 and is using at least two of the same authors involved in the first one. Here are the articles:
    http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1939-1676.1998.tb02108.x/epdf

    http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1748-5827.2000.tb03203.x/pdf

  • aimee

    I haven’t read the full texts but from the abstracts of papers published by the authors: “a habitual diet based on home-made food (rich in beef and pork, and poor
    in chicken) as opposed to commercial food, are also associated with the
    occurrence of mammary tumours”

    “The intake of homemade meals (compared to that of commercial foods) was
    also significantly related to a higher incidence of tumors and
    dysplasias. Other significant risk factors were a high intake of red meat, especially beef and pork, and a low intake of chicken…..In the multivariate analysis, older age, obesity at 1 year of age, and a high red meat intake were independently and significantly associated with the risk of developing mammary tumor and dysplasias.”

    see http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9595373 and http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10976622

    I haven’t read the paper so I can’t comment of methodology

  • Kim Benson-Custard

    I honestly never intended to start much of a discussion here. I just wanted people to recognize that dogs can survive and thrive on a veg diet. I have one dog who will eat anything, and one very picky dog. They love when I add beans or lentils to their food. They get excited about broccoli, and love peanut butter sweet potato snacks. They are far from deprived, and always get great check-ups. That’s all I’m going to say because not only am I not a debater and I’m used to the world disagreeing with me. 😉

  • Dori

    Aimee. Was that study dry beef diets vs dry poultry diets? Just curious. I’d love to read it if you can post the link. As you may be aware Hannah was diagnosed with bladder cancer and a mass on the lobe of a lung. Thanks much.

  • GSDsForever

    It would be interesting to see whether that includes red meats from grass fed/pastured free range game.

  • GSDsForever

    A well designed homemade vegetarian diet would be a better choice for your dog.

    Yes, it would need to be balanced. You can do that with either the help of a vet nutritionist like DVM DACVN Susan Wynn (who might be an especially good choice for you, given your interest in protecting against cancer & promoting a strong immune system) consulting with your vet long distance OR through a vet school nutrition & balanced diets book, like UC Davis/DVM Donald Strombeck’s Home Prepared Dog & Cat Diets, which includes vegetarian and vegan diets.

    But it would be better than this ultra low protein, low fat, very highly processed (refined flour product) vegan commercial kibble, made by Del Monte (maker of much pet junk foods):

    http://www.naturalbalanceinc.com/product.aspx?ProductId=18&

    This is essentially the dog food equivalent of feeding whole grain multi-grain cheerios or multi-grain snack crackers (with a little pea & potato
    thrown in) at every meal to a child as its only foods and expecting it to thrive.

    100% refined flours, grains & potatoes ground up into a fine powder, and cooked into a kibble DO become sugars, just like candy — whether in a human body or a dog body. That’s why we’re NOT supposed to eat lots of chips, crackers, and processed & refined breakfast cereals (even those without ADDED sugars & junk) in our own diets.

  • GSDsForever

    As a vegetarian and one who is fine with feeding a vegetarian diet (a good one) to a dog, I have to agree with aquariangt on this comment.

    And, actually, I feel it is important, given the statements Kim has made above and my knowledge & experience with dogs with cancer, to state that while many, many wholesome vegetarian ingredients are powerfully anti-cancer and a vegetarian diet or an almost vegetarian diet with fish can be cancer preventative —

    When a dog actually HAS cancer, the gold standard diet used to treat cancer and PREVENT FURTHER CANCER GROWTH is a very low carb diet high in highly digestible protein and fat. It needs to be low carbs and low glycemic carbs in particular to be low glycemic, as sugar found in starchy carbs and refined grains feeds cancer growth. This generally means high in animal proteins, whether meat or vegetarian (eggs/cheese/yogurt). Not much that is vegan, other than organic special high protein tofu, fits the bill. Other vegan/plant proteins tend to come with difficult digestibility, too much starch and/or sugar, or too high fiber — especially when it is necessary/recommended to add selected & portioned anti-cancer “super foods” like berries, dark greens, sea vegetables, broccoli, cauliflower, red/yellow bell peppers.

    The commercial vegan diet you are referencing would actually have entirely the wrong nutrient profile & glycemic load and PROMOTE cancer growth.

  • aquariangt

    comparing meat to candy is ridiculous. Natural Balance is made by Del Monte, by the way, so I would question the quality of the ingredients included in this food

  • aimee

    There really isn’t much information in this area, but the one study I’m aware of found a higher cancer rate in dogs on red meat vs poultry which parallels what is seen in people.

  • Kim Benson-Custard

    Lol, I’m sorry you want to vote my post down because my dogs are happy and healthy. I’ve actually seen 2 dogs that I loved and cared for die at a young age (6-8) from a crazy weird very rare cancer, what did both they eat? Raw organic beef with a re-hydrated grain mix.

  • vtech

    We made chihuahuas…chihuahuas didnt just evolve from nature….every dog breed you see was a human intervened creation.

  • vtech

    Salmonella, parasites, food borne illnesses. Thats why. Bones, hard ones, shatter in the the intestines and shred the animal from the inside out.

    Rregular vet exams and bloodwork can help determine your pets current health status. If your vet is concerned about lack of nutrients then discuss with them what you will need to do. Also make a list of what you feed, how often, etc and keep them in the loop. Your vet should work with you about any nutritional needs.

  • vtech

    Theobromine (and caffeine) in chocolate IS toxic to dogs. Grapes (though unknown why) causes acute renal failure. Garlic and onions cause Anemia.

    Yes, there are dogs who can seem to eat anything and be fine. Then another dog could take one bite and end up vomiting or in renal failure. As veterinary professional seeing dogs come in everyday to have their stomachs pumped and activated charcoal shoved down their esophaguses and animals coming in with pancreatitis and renal failure due to getting a hold of food they shouldn’t have- it is not a myth is a biological and scientific fact.

    I had a dog who could eat anything, but when he turned about 14 he got a hold of something he shouldn’t have and went straight into organ failure. He survived, but this was a dog who ate garbage and was fine. On the other hand I had other dogs (including a 60lb belgian) who would take one bite of something and I would immediately have to run to be treated.

    Please, do not give your pets that your Vet tells you not to. They are poisonous, all because “he seems fine” does NOT mean he is or that it is a good thing at all.

    Im tired of pets dying because of this. Yes they do die, a lot, and veterinary professionals hearts break a dozen times every single day because an animal dies due to preventable disease or an owner not heeding warnings.

  • theBCnut

    I don’t think so, since she cited the length of digestive tract and the pH preference, etc. I just think she was going at it from an angle I was failing to understand.

  • Deby

    I enjoy the compound word you just invented… I am sitting in court waiting on the judge to come in and needed a little bit of amusement before I presented my argument for my client. Thank you, you have done the trick!

  • Deby

    Ill-will minded? I have to give you credit, you are quite amusing!

  • Deby

    says the guy that keeps replying. I’m leaving to go to work please get a life

  • wolfdogged

    If that amuses you, then I think you are ill-will minded. As I figured you have nothing better to do.

  • wolfdogged

    Carnivores are generally predators that hunt and kill their prey.
    Scavengers can be carnivorous or omniverous. Carniverous scavengers usually consume animals that have either died of natural causes or been killed by another carnivore, such as a vulture. And a cockroach is an example of an omniverous scavenger. And some animals will catch and kill their prey OR scavenge, such as bears.

  • Deby

    I find it amusing that you are getting so excited about this. Using a comma is a replacement for the use of the word “and” in a sentence. So therefore the sentence that you just wrote, in which you actually used the word “and” in replacement of the comma that you had previously used completely corroborates my previous statement. Thank you very much have a wonderful day.

  • wolfdogged

    It’s disappointing you have nothing of any value to add to this discussion.
    Not that it’s even relevant, if I had wanted to include pigs as cud chewers I would have written domestic cud-chewing cattle AND pigs, etc. If you don’t like my English well that’s too F-B.

  • Deby

    By using the comma you were listing. So, therefore, it read as cud chewing cattle and cud chewing pigs.

  • Deby

    And I quote you: “domestic cud-chewing cattle, pigs, etc.” learn how to use commas correctly if you did not intend to insinuate that pigs chew their cud.

  • wolfdogged

    I did NOT write that pigs chew cud. Read the sentence more carefully!.

  • Deby

    Pigs DO NOT chew their cud. F.Y.I.

  • Deby

    30 ferrets!!! Good god I hope you don’t have them living in your house, and only have that many because you are running some sort of a rescue group!

  • Deby

    I think she meant more carnivorous than we are meant to believe.

  • LabsRawesome

    One thousand down votes.

  • Kim Benson-Custard

    I like how this is worded very politically. I will tell you I have 2 dogs both 9-10 years old, fed on the Vegan formula Natural Balance for the last 6 years. We’re constantly getting told people are surprised when we tell them how old our pups are. Our dogs have very few lumps and bumps for their ages. Regardless of omnivore, carnivore, herbivore categories, meat is known to weaken immune systems therefore promoting cancer growth. Yes dogs are going to have a “undeniable carnivorous bias” just like a child is going to have an “undeniable sugary candy bias”.

  • Guest

    no, evolution usually makes use of mutations, too. you are kinda funny, because selective breeding and mutations are not in any way connected.

  • Barry Elder

    Most would disagree that we actually are a part of the process of evolution period. (As in all the way from single celled organisms). Yup, Chihuahuas did come to us via wolves. Fascinating isn’t it?

  • nyalalam nyalalam

    Let me guess, vegetarians are trying to feed their dogs salad and nuts?

  • wolfdogged

    The majority of wolves (and high content wolfdogs) in captivity eat raw meat diets. Very few can stomach kibble, especially the ones laden with carbohybrates, which covers most kibble. Gives them severe diarrhea. Exceptions like Epigen and Orijen are tolerable because of their SIGNIFICANTLY lower carbohydrate content.
    Diet has only a little to do with why wolves live longer in captivity. Btw, feral dogs don’t live long lives either.
    There is a 3rd option, it’s called facultative carnivore.
    I absolutely agree that arguing carnivore vs omnivore is pointless. An example of an omnivore is a bear, which is considered an *omnivorous carnivore* of the taxonomic order Carnivora.

  • wolfdogged

    You’re absolutely correct.
    Here’s an updated list of the TRUE obligate carnivores. Felines (all cats), hyenas, civets, all weasels – includes ferrets, and all pinnipeds – includes seals, walruses, otters, etc.

  • Noelani Bluemist

    Felines are not the only obligate carnivores.. 😀
    I got 30 ferrets that would get very sick if I fed them any plant based food..

  • wolfdogged

    Haha USA Dog Treats
    It really seems that you have no idea at all of what it is you posted means, actually!
    The “generalized” paragraph accompanying each link (says exactly the SAME for all animals on that list) is simply explaining the process by which the saliva is excreted and then to which enzymes are present. That’s where the white and green colored boxes comes into play in the diagram. The green boxes contain the active enzymes for each animal. If you’ll notice the only animal in their list with a green box highlighted for AMY1, to have sufficient salivary amylase, is humans.
    http://www.genome.jp/kegg-bin/show_pathway?org_name=hsa&mapno=04970&mapscale=&show_description=hide

    You may wonder why domestic cud-chewing cattle, pigs, etc (on their list) do not have the green boxes also highlighted to show AMY1 is present. This is because the amount of AMY1 they produce is minimal.

    Among domestic livestock, amylase is most abundant in the saliva of pigs. In contrast, the amount of amylase present in human saliva is about 100X’s that present in pigs.

  • USA Dog Treats
  • Dog_Obsessed

    It takes a fairly large amount of chocolate to kill or seriously sicken a large dog, especially if it is milk chocolate. Pet MD makes a chocolate toxicity calculator: http://www.petmd.com/dog/chocolate-toxicity

  • Dog_Obsessed

    Wait, doesn’t a scavenger eat already dead things?

  • wolfdogged

    ~~So, without salivary amylase, a dog’s carbohydrate digestion can be decidedly more difficult.~~

    Who exactly decided that nonsense? The raw food propaganda artists, obviously! Tsk Tsk for those who swallow that bunk without question.

    True CARNIVORES are all the mammals in the taxonomic order Carnivora. (Yes there are some animals that are also carnivorous outside this order). However, not one single mammal in this order has salivary amylase. Bears also eat plant matter, yet no salivary amylase. Not even bamboo-eating panda’s have salivary amylase.

    Dogs are facultative carnivores. Carnivores with omnivorous potential if circumstances demand. Meaning they primarily require meat protein as their main source of food, but their digestive systems can also handle moderate amounts of fibre and carbohydrates.

    Omnivorous carnivores (omnivore) such as bears are opportunistic, general feeders not specifically adapted to eat and digest either meat or plant material exclusively.

    Felines are the only true obligate carnivores.They cannot digest plant matter.

    Giant Panda Genome: Answers About the Carnivore that Eats Plants
    http://promega.wordpress.com/2010/01/29/giant-panda-genome-answers-about-the-carnivore-that-eats-plants/
    See also: The Panda that eats MEAT! Panda caught on camera eating dead antelope.
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2079320/Panda-caught-infra-red-camera-tucking-dead-antelope.html

  • Roy McLemore

    First off how did a discussion about dog food turn into a debate about evolution? Now for the fact that you called me stupid because I believe in God, when the fact is (and let’s just stick to facts no assumptions) that Darwin claims that all life came from one simple organism which reproduced and over time became the complex life forms we have today. Oh and by the way Darwin ASSUMED (remember we are sticking with facts not assumptions) that the simple organism came from a lightning bolt that struck a pool of just the right chemicals to form it. Now later in life after much contemplation on the matter Mr Darwin says “that nature does not jump.” Now the FACT is that all the major animal groups suddenly appear in the forms they are today, not slowly and steadily like Mr Darwin predicted, but in evolutionary terms almost instantly so then that means nature not only jumped but made one huge leap. So just that you understand that means he contradicted himself.

  • theBCnut

    Sorry, maybe I’m dense tonight. The article is about dogs. Humans are omnivores. How can an omnivore be more omnivore than the omnivore that it is? I’m lost…or did you mean that we’re more herbivorous than we are led to believe?

  • Amy

    The article points out carnivorous vs. omnivorous characteristics. Considering the very long length of the human’s digestive tract, our PH level and our body’s aversion to an acidic environment, the low acidity and high alkalinity in our saliva, as well as the way we metabolize cholesterol in small amounts.

  • theBCnut

    How do you mean that, since humans are completely omnivorous?

  • Amy

    This research makes me begin to believe that humans are perhaps much more omnivorous than we are led to believe…

  • zardac

    A scientific theory isn’t a guess.
    It’s an explanation supported by evidence, observation, and experimentation.

    It can be overwhelming evidence…but if you’re seeking proof, go to the liquor store.

  • Kevin Weinberg

    LOL. You believe that the reason women feel pain during childbirth is because a talking snake told one to eat an apple.

    And now you’re laughing at evidence-based scientific claims that use the forces of Natural Selection, Mutation, Gene Flow, and Genetic drift to explain the diversity of life?

    All while you ACTUALLY believe, you **ACTUALLY** believe, that a TALKING SNAKE is the reason why it hurts when women have babies?

    Oh, you creationists. All so stupid

  • kfmush

    My dad once had a girlfriend who’s newfoundland (big dog, but she was a runt for her breed) ate more than 20 lbs of chocolate halloween candy, wrappers and all in a single evening and wasn’t phased. Of course this was all Snicker’s and Milky Way and what not – cheap American chocolates with very little cocoa.

  • kfmush

    Sounds a lot like the medical community for humans. Kid acting up? Take it from the doctor with Shire pharmaceutical advertisements all over his office that the kid needs Adderall.

  • summer

    what about lions? maybe I came from a lion. if I came from a monkey why am I so freakin white?

  • summer

    was it a cockroach??

  • summer

    he below is right. I thought I came from a fish??

  • summer

    u fool. if we evolved from monkeys there would be no monkeys.

  • Andrea Bodnar

    Thank You NSXk..etc!
    I feed raw frozen beef, trachia, bone and tripe,l and also chicken or pork shoulder from the supermarket. I also give wild alaskan salmon oil. she is doing great. I’ve been feeding this for 1.5 years now.

  • LabsRawesome

    I agree. I use a kibble with only 17% carbs. There are a few decent ones.

  • disqus_NsXk2VlHov

    To answer your question: Vets get very little education on nutrition. This is similar to your GP, who you certainly wouldnt ask for a specific and detailed dietary plan (for your lifetime). You would ask a nutritionist. When people ask their vet for nutritional advice it is for day in and day out pet feeding which makes it even worse. Secondly, there are a few brands that are closely involved with vet schools and clinics. They provide tokens, posters, sponsorship, educational items etc etc as a means of influencing young vet students. It is not direct, but it is ever-present in most western vet schools. This is a very logical marketing plan because many of these vet students eventually ending up feeding/selling/recommending the product to future clients. Feed prey model and your dog wont have any deficiencies.

    Remember the scientific fact, also stated by the AAFCO: DOGS HAVE 0% REQUIREMENT FOR CARBOHYDRATE. Kibble is 30-70% carbohydrate. High carbohydrate diets are linked to countless diseases in humans. They are simply a CHEAP energy source for pet food.

  • Kenneth Ty Morris

    One cigarette won’t kill you either. Just a thought.

  • Antonio Fisher

    Aimee, again trust me I’ve had my fair share of lectures on this subject and at the end of the day it’s still considered a theory (guess), no conclusion as scientists have agreed there’s no actual proof. Also keep in mind while many will acknowledge the fact we share 99%MtDNA with chimps we share over 90%MtDNA will ALL other mammals including rats (hence the reason most laboratory testing is done on animals like rats/dogs etc) before certain drugs are pushed into the human population. Again interesting opinions on the subject and I still will have to choose to disagree that any of my ancestors evolved from a primitive ape. But if someone feels closely related to apes they are def entitled to their oppinion as well.

  • aimee

    The apes – chimps, gorillas,etc. are not our ancestors. They’re our cousins. We split off (evolved) from a common ancestor. The fossil and genetic evidence indicates that humans and chimps (with whom we share almost 99% of our DNA) shared an ancestor between 5 and 6 million years ago.

    There is no innate ‘urge’ to evolve. Evolution requires a push (natural selection). The selective pressures on the ancient ancestors varied from one population to the next. Thus, one group evolved human characters. Others didn’t. Selective forces are somewhat random. Thus, not everything evolves in the same way.

  • Antonio Fisher

    Jess you make a great point but your last sentence “Since there are still gaps in the evolution theory we will never know what’s true” this is the main reason I don’t fully accept evolution as oppose to species adaption. So the biggest question again would be why aren’t monkeys evolving into people today?

  • jess

    I feel that dogs arent obliagted carnivore so they need the vitamins and minerals found in plant and fruit

  • jess

    Natural selection is completely random. Evolution didnt happen in a linear format it was more like a tree with tons of branches sticking out everywhere. So at the base it would be the common ancestor of both monkeys and humans but then after different species or groups get transfered around the world different needs arises and new adaptation and mutations are being made. Since there are still gaps in the evolution theory we will never know whats true..

  • theBCnut

    The only discourtesy deleted by moderator here is you because you haven’t learned how to use the English language to express yourself, all you’ve got is profanity and snide remarks. Try explaining your views instead of attempting to insult others. BTW, to have a conversation about a topic does not in any way imply that you believe in said topic. You know what they say about assume. My point was that selective breeding is not the same thing as whatever kind of evolution you want to believe or disbelieve in, unless you think selective breeding is the definition of evolution.

  • Antonio Fisher

    The debate over carnivore versus omnivore is pointless as the dog is neither. There should be a 3rd option (scavenger). The dog is 100% scavenger just like the wolf, hyena, pigs, buzzards, coyotes etc. He’s always had the ability to survive on pretty much any diet regardless of quality and ingredients (hence the reason for the short digestive tract). This is the same reason a wild wolf can live twice as long in captivity and transition from his normal diet in the wild to eating a processed kibble (dog food) while in captivity without having to take the millions of years of evolution for his stomach to adjust.

  • Antonio Fisher

    While I don’t agree with the name calling, I do agree w/ your points about somethings. Evolution theory is not as sound as it was thought to be 30 years ago. Reason being you have to ask the question is people came from monkeys why didn’t this occur with all monkeys, were the other monkey’s genetically inferior or mentally slower than the ones that supposedly made the transition. The same question for dogs and wolves, if all dogs came from wolves why didn’t this naturally occure with the entire wolf population and why aren’t these type of changes still occuring today?

  • Ken

    So your dumbass believes in the outdated Gradual Evolution Religion instead of the more modern Punctuated Evolution Religion? LMAO! Never has 1 kind of animal changed into another kind of animal. You can have all the faith you want in your Evolution Religion but that NEVER happens in real life.

  • Ken

    Your great grandmother was a monkey? LOL. Another brainwashed idiot who thinks fish can magically shape shift into non-fish. The Faith Based Evolution Religion is laughable. Personally, I think walnut trees shape shifted into ants and then ants into rabbits and then rabbits into dinosaurs. LMAO!

  • thinker

    Mr./Ms. Ignorant,

    We and the monkeys came from a common ancestor.

  • Pattyvaughn

    The dose for milk chocolate is 1 ounce per pound of body weight, so an 80 lb dog would have to eat 80 oz of milk chocolate to get a fatal dose. The purer the chocolate, the lower the dose, but it is still more chocolate than most dogs are likely to get.
    With grapes, they are not sure what causes the problem and some dogs are much more sensitive than others. A friend of mine had her kids play catch the grape with their dog. They figured she ate around 6 grapes. She is an overweight 50-60 lb dog and she was sick for a week. Other dogs have had much higher doses and shown no effects at all. Either some grapes are not poisonous and some are or it is a substance that is applied to some grapes but not all or some dogs are more susceptible to them than others.

  • Cassb007

    Fascinating comments, thank you. I’ve been told all my life that chocolate has an enzyme that kills dogs. Yet, my ridgeback devoured a chocolate, in our absence, and was perfectly fine. She also ate grapes and raw carrots, by a cider, and again, was fine. I would be never porpisy risk it, but I’ve been told many times about digs eating solid chocolate without affect. So.. Is it a myth? Is it a genetic predisposition? Is it a matter of their current state of health? Is it a difference among breeds, size, age, gender, geography, environment, type of chocolate? I’m so curious!

  • Crazy4cats

    You might have, sweet cheeks, but I didn’t!!!! LMAO

  • LabsRawesome

    LMAO. No, we did not.

  • Bob

    Its hard to believe that we came from monkeys too, but that’s life sweet cheeks.

  • Andrea Bodnar

    Here’s my question: If dogs are carnivores, ( as I assume based on my research) then why do vets always seem to complain that an all diet made up or raw meat, bone, and organs, with occasional fish, eggs and fish oil, may not be nutritionally balanced?
    Also when I go to the vet, what test do I ask for to see if this diet is lacking in any nutrients?

  • Pattyvaughn

    Evolutionist have had to embrace natural selection, because at least it can be proven. Otherwise they have a very pretty theory, but nothing else. And as evolutionists will tell you, evolution takes time, natural selection can happen in an instant.

  • Danny Bowen

    Evolution is a larger theory.. which includes all of the above. genetic mutation is one way to evolve.. the other way can be through “natural selection”.. natural selection can mean, some animal likes you and spreads the seeds.. so you evolve.. or.. you have thicker fur, so you survive.. and others die.. It’s less about genetic mutation, and more about survival of the fittest.

  • Pingback: Dogs are Carnivores–Why You Should go Grain-Free with #DiamondNaturals | Terrier TorrentTerrier Torrent()

  • Pattyvaughn

    You just said they are the same and then gave an example of how one involves a mutation and the other involves breeding for specific genes that are already present, proving that they are not the same thing. Evolution involves nonfatal gene mutations. Selective breeding happens in the wild, when an environment and specific circumstances become the selectors for the genes that are already present. A lot of people do not seem to understand the difference, but if the gene already exists for the trait, then it is selective breeding that brings out the trait, not evolution.

  • Matt Davis

    I’ll help clear this issue. Yes selective breeding and evolution are exactly the same. The only difference is that in evolution, the “selector” is the environment. For example, look at the huge muscular cows (blue belgium). One cow at one point had a mutation in a gene that made it VERY muscular. Humans selectively bred that cow so now they all have this mutation. That’s an example of selective breeding with a mutation involved.

  • Pingback: House Cats, Obligate Carnivores | Cryptic Philosopher()

  • DogInaHumanSuit

    Dog’s didn’t evolve ‘directly’ from the timber wolf. Most breeds evolved from the same ancestor as the timber wolf. A small detail, but an important one. Some dog breeds, like most canaan dogs, actually came from a separate species then the grey wolf all together. Newer research is showing that some dog breeds even started evolving along side, not from, the wolf. With so many different breeds, and no documentation of their history, it’s impossible to pin point one specific ancestor to all dog breeds. Also, most ‘ancient’ looking breeds, like spitz, can not be proven to be any older then modernized breeds like lab, and appear to have been derived outside of the wolf range, meaning, they very likely have little, if any, wolf genetics.

    It’s a common and not very important misconception to say dogs evolved from wolves, but it’s an annoying inaccuracy.
    Other then that, this article did make a few good key points.

  • Pattyvaughn

    In selective breeding man can’t breed for a trait that isn’t genetically there already. Selective breeding is also what happens in the wild when the strongest survive, the trait was already there.
    Evolution would be when the wolf and bears common ancestor split off to specialize or when the llama ancestor became a camel.

  • Pattyvaughn

    In selective breeding, the genes for the trait are already there, just not necessarily expressed. In evolution, a mutation changes the genes to something that was never there before. Mutations are usually fatal, which would be one reason why evolution is actually a very slow process.

  • Shawna

    Wow, that’s a good question..
    I think one way they are different would be that in selective breeding they are breeding for a specific trait — flatter face, smaller, longer nose, friendlier disposition or whatever. In natural evolution the healthiest, strongest, fastest etc would survive to breed.

  • D.H.C.

    General curiosity, how would selective breeding and evolution be different?

  • Pattyvaughn

    So in your view are selective breeding and evolution the same thing?

  • B Tog

    The link between wolf and dog is settled, proven science. Evolution can work in both small steps and big steps, depending on what segments of the DNA are affected. In the case of dogs, one alteration from wolves involves Neoteny, aka, juvenilization. Most dogs retain the characteristics of wolf puppies–large eyes, floppy ears, etc.–throughout their life. We brought corn from being a tiny, multi-colored, mealy-tasting starch to an large, uniform, ever-sweet starch in a matter of a few hundred years. Doing the same sort of transformation over 15,000 years? No problem.

  • alphadogfood.com

    All dogs evolved from Timber Wolves? Why not foxes, coyotes or other smaller canines? I just find it hard to believed that a chiwawa comes from a wolf.

  • InkedMarie

    Dogs love pb. Mine do but I stopped, I think of the mess I cleaned up & can’t do it!

  • Frank J. Casella

    Macadamia – that is it, now it comes back to me. Thank you Hound Dog Mom! Whew!! It would’ve probably come to me at 2am … ha!!

  • Frank J. Casella

    Good point. You wonder why they put pb in those treats in the first place??

  • Hound Dog Mom

    Peanuts/peanut butter are safe for dogs – not the healthiest food for them but they love it. I work at a shelter and we give the dogs kongs with peanut butter at night before we close. You’re probably thinking of macadamia nuts – they’re toxic to dogs.

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