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pitlove

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  • pitlove
    Participant

    Thanks mary! I went back and reread it. I misread something the first time I read that article. The part that says “entering a MIXTURE of as fed and dry matter…” I only read it as “entering as fed or dry matter…”

    Just goes to show, there is always something left to learn!

    pitlove
    Participant

    Hi there Nick-

    I’m with anon101 on this one. Hill’s is one of the leaders in research on large and giant breed puppy growth and nutrition. It is also one of the top recommendations for large breed puppy foods by board certified veterinary nutritionists. Your vet is likely making the recommendation because he believes in the food, considering you will most likely not even be buying her food from his office (hence even if he did get kickbacks from Hill’s it would be a moot point).

    If your dog is doing well on the food, enjoys eating and it works for your budget, then it sounds like Science Diet is the best option. Also don’t get hung up on protein levels, as protein has been shown through 20 years of research not to effect growth in LBP’s.

    pitlove
    Participant

    HDM spent a lot of time calling companies. It would be too much for me to undertake right now as I am in school for vet tech. The best thing to do is to email companies you are interested in and ask the right questions to make sure the food you want to feed is safe. If a company is confused by your questions or says they can not provide you with the information then pass on that brand.

    What did you see in the thread that seemed to conflict?

    pitlove
    Participant

    Hi mary-

    If you actually read the article attatched to the calcium calculator Dr.Mike says the calculator does not work off of as fed or dry matter. You need to obtain the numbers found in a “typical analysis” as those numbers are on a energy basis which is more accurate. A lot of companies (because they do not have a nutritionist) do not understand how to provide those numbers.

    Raido-

    Yes it is possible that Acana may be even more off balance than that when you get the average or max values from the company. I’d still contact them.

    pitlove
    Participant

    No, those figures are not accurate as you have input the minimum amount of calcium and phosphorus. You will need to email the company and ask for the average or max % of calcium and phosphorus. If they provide you with “as fed” or “dry matter” this will not be helpful as the calculator does not work off as fed or dry matter basis.

    in reply to: persistant diarrhea #92379 Report Abuse Edit Post Visibility
    pitlove
    Participant

    Hi emmygirl-

    Your vet is actually taking you in the right direction with suggesting an elimination diet with the hydrolzed protein food. It is the golden standard for diagnosing food allergies. Antibiotics when needed are perfectly safe and often necessary. I would continue with the plan your vet has set forth.

    in reply to: Rotational diet #92205 Report Abuse Edit Post Visibility
    pitlove
    Participant

    Hi Krista-

    Myself and many others have had similar experiences when feeding the Honest Kitchen. Undigested food in the stool. That and the fact that my dogs did not want to eat it after a few meals has led me not to revisit the food.

    pitlove
    Participant

    Hi KC B-

    Blood tests are notoriously unrealiable for diganosing food allergies, as they tend to yield false negatives and false positives. I’m sorry your vet had you waste your money. They should definitely know better!

    If you want to properly rule out food allergies, you will need to conduct a proper elimination diet.

    pitlove
    Participant

    You’re welcome for the info. That is why I’m so pleased with the results from using the Malaseb shampoo. It’s 2% Chlorhexidine and 2% Miconazole. If you don’t know Chlorhexidine is one of the best antiseptics on the market and one of the most gentle and Miconazole is an excellent antifungal agent which kills the yeast on the skin. It’s been very helpful with controlling my pitbulls yeast during the summer. It’s also wonderful at keeping his skin and coat super soft and no dander.

    pitlove
    Participant

    When it comes to Malassezia yeast which is the yeast that lives on the skin of the dog, different from Candida yeast which lives in the gut, the scientific literature tells us that it is not a carb loving yeast. It is a fat loving yeast. However not dietary fats, oils on the skin kinds of fat.

    Yeast is always secondary to immune suppression. Unfortunetly anecdotal evidence is not very reliable and not scientifically accurate. It also can not replace what the literature tells us is the physiology of yeast and how it truly is caused. Hence why my dog can still eat a moderately high carb food with no issue.

    Also, the hydrolyzed diets are available through the vet only. You may also want to consider that these issues could have nothing to do with food.

    pitlove
    Participant

    Hi Kristen-

    I spent about a year and a half doing what you are doing right now, with my pitbull. I was switching foods constantly, looking for the lowest carb foods, no potatoes for a while, no grains, high protein. It did absolutely nothing to help him because I had been given very wrong information about why and how yeast forms.

    Yeast naturally grows on the dogs skin and when their immune system is healthy, the body regulates the yeast and keeps it under control. The opposite happens when the immune system is weakened, often times because of allergies, but other reasons as well. Though many people will continue to perpetuate the myth that carbs “feed” yeast because they break down into glucose, this is untrue and therefore simply limiting carbs without having an understanding of what is causing the immune system to be suppressed is pointless.

    If you believe food is an issue, you will need to conduct a proper elimination diet, which it sounds like you may have attempted at one point though I don’t know what food you used to attempt it. When doing one properly, you will either need to homecook one novel protein and one novel carb for 2 months straight or use the veterinary theraputic diets whos proteins have been hydrolyzed. Hydrolyzation of the proteins breaks them down into their component amino acids making the immune system unable to detect them, thus not causing an immune system response. During this time they of course can not have anything but that diet. No treats, no flavored meds, nothing. An elimination diet is the golden standard for diagnosing food allergies. Those who have told you allergy tests for food allergies are unreliable were correct, they are. Often times yielding false negatives and false positives.

    I personally chose the veterinary theraputic diet to do my pitbulls elimination diet (Royal Canin Hydrolyzed Protein) and he greatly improved, thus telling me food was a component to his allergy issues. He is now eating a fish based, grain inclusive food with almost 50% carbs and is yeast free during the winter months. Unfortunetly when June hits in the south here he does get a little worse again leading me to suspect environmental allergies on top of the food issues. But for that I bathe twice a week in Malaseb shampoo to kill the yeast. I’ve been successful with this regime for 8 months now.

    pitlove
    Participant

    Hi Jose Carlos-

    Did the vet have any suggestions?

    Feeding him a little over the recommended amount does not guarantee you are meeting his caloric needs on a daily basis.

    in reply to: When to seek help (yeasty dog) #91914 Report Abuse Edit Post Visibility
    pitlove
    Participant

    Hi T S-

    Bringing him to the vet for a skin scrape to determine that the issue is in fact yeast is a good place to start.

    His yeast also may have nothing to do with food allergies at all, which is why the change in food has not helped.

    You may also want to talk with his breeder to see if the parents had any of these issues or any of his littermates.

    My pitbull has both food allergies (diganosed by elimination trial) and suspected environmental allergies. During the summer months I bathe him twice a week in Malaseb shampoo, which contains 2% chlorhexidine and 2% miconazole. Chlorhexidine is a gentle, but effective antiseptic and miconazole is the active ingredient that will kill excess yeast on the skin. I would highly recommend that shampoo over your current bathing regime. It makes him very soft and no dander at all.

    in reply to: Struvite Crystals #91898 Report Abuse Edit Post Visibility
    pitlove
    Participant

    Hi Jackie-

    Anyone with an opinion can post on the internet. Unfortuntely, more often than not that does not mean they know what they are talking about.

    If your vet prescribed a therapeutic diet, there is a good reason and I would trust his judgement.

    pitlove
    Participant

    Hi T.G

    I feel there is an obvious solution here which does not involve moving your 6 month old large breed to an adult maintenance diet like Orjien Senior… Choosing another brand that is not Orijen.

    Growing puppies have a protein requirement of between 22-25% protein. Orijen is in far excess of that and for many dogs Orijens fat and protein levels are far too high. I would recommend highly considering a switch in brands. A few suggestions are: Dr. Tim’s Kinesis, NutriSource Large Breed Puppy and Precise Holistic Complete Large & Giant Breed Puppy.

    Your two dogs are at very different stages of life and unfortunetly both of their needs can not be met with the same food within Orijen. An adult maintenance diet aside from usually being too calorically dense for a puppy, does not have the correct vitamin and mineral levels to sustain a growing pup.

    pitlove
    Participant

    I would avoid the food that is 3.7g/1000

    pitlove
    Participant

    Great article! Thanks for posting.

    I think our pets are far better off now a days than they were years ago. Even my teacher was talking about how a lot of pets had to get euthanized when she first got out of vet school 30+ years ago because they didn’t have the ability to treat the issues going on with the pet. Can’t imagine how bad our beloved pets had it long before that time.

    pitlove
    Participant

    Hi C P-

    These symptoms suggest possible megaesophagus. I’d recommend seeing a vet if you haven’t already. Constant vomitting can lead to dehydration amoung other things.

    in reply to: Bulldog allergy help? #91303 Report Abuse Edit Post Visibility
    pitlove
    Participant

    Hi Chris-

    Malaseb contains Chlorhexidine and Miconazole. Chlorhexidine is a great antiseptic and Miconazole is a great anti fungal. Ketoconazole is also an antifungal, so it has the same properties as Miconazole. I could not find any info in my pharmacology textbook about Benzalkonium Chloride, however vetstreet.com says it is also an antifungal.

    One reason I really like Malaseb is because of its soothing properties and it makes my dogs fur very soft. I’d say if this shampoo is just as soothing it would be a good subsitute.

    pitlove
    Participant

    Hi Paige-

    Here is the package insert for IVERHART MAX Chewable Tablets: http://www.virbacvet.com/pdf/product_pdfs/IVERHART_MAX_Chewable_Tablets_Insert.pdf

    It contains ivermectin, pyrantel pamoate, and praziquantel, so it treats heart worm as well as round, hook, and tape worms.

    Sometimes products with inactive ingredients will not list them, but still list the % of inactive ingredients. So this product may not have any. You also may want to check the list of side effects to see if her reaction matches one of the listed side effects. Otherwise you might want to call Virbac and ask if there are any inactive ingredients.

    in reply to: Bulldog allergy help? #90977 Report Abuse Edit Post Visibility
    pitlove
    Participant

    @Chris

    It is definitely ok to bathe twice a week when directed by a vet. I also used Malaseb like anon101 mentioned and in the summer months I bathe twice weekly. It helps my pitbull a lot. He gets similar symptoms as your parents bulldog in relation to his environmental allergies. The Malaseb shampoo clears up the symptoms quickly.

    If they are indeed hot spots, it is important to dry them out and they will clear up on their own. This doesn’t sound like hot spots to me personally though.

    in reply to: Bulldog allergy help? #90976 Report Abuse Edit Post Visibility
    pitlove
    Participant

    In my pharmacology textbook fatty acid supplements are categorized as miscellaneous therapeutic agents. The source has to be of good quality, for example, my teacher said wild caught salmon is a much better source of fatty acids than farm raised. But fatty acid supplementation definitely works! She even carries a topical fatty acid supplement at her clinic that she swears by for dogs like Labs that get localized dander etc.

    pitlove
    Participant

    I’d pass on the food then, if they do not understand what you are asking for. I would also try another company besides WellPet which makes both Holistic Select and Wellness.

    pitlove
    Participant

    The numbers you need to request from the company are the AVERAGE or MAX levels of calcium and phosphorus. As fed and Dry Matter will not yield accurate data from the calcium calculator as stated in the article.

    pitlove
    Participant

    I’m not sure what is available to you in Canada, plus you won’t want to switch his food for at least a couple of weeks. GI upset can easily be brought on with a food change while a puppy is adjusting to their new environment.

    Does chewy.com ship to Canada?

    pitlove
    Participant

    Hi MomOfThor-

    Holistic Select Large Breed Puppy is not appropriate for a large breed puppy as goldenstar mentioned. When I sent them a follow up email asking why their formulations were not in line with current research regarding nutrition for growing large and giant breeds from the last 20 years, their answer was that they are in the process of reformulating their LBP line to be more in line with up to date research. Not sure when that new formula is due out as she did not tell me.

    Regarding what to look for in a LBP food. The calcium/phos ratio and the calcium/calorie ratio are what matters. Protein has long since been proven to be a non factor for large and giant breed growth. Unless the company provides (usually on their website) a nutrient analysis that provides the average or MAX Ca and Phos levels, you will need to do what I do and email the company directly requesting the info. The calcium calculator on this site will not work without the average or MAX Ca and Phos. If the company is unwilling to provide you with those numbers or does not understand what you are asking for, run far far away from that food.

    You should be a looking for a food that has a ca/phos ratio between 1.1:1-1.5:1 and a ca/kcal ratio of 3g/1000kcals. Slightly higher or lower is not bad, but deviating too far from that is going to cause a problem. It is best to use a food with the least energy density during growth.

    Star rating is of little importance especially when the food is as off the mark as both you mentioned in your posts.

    • This reply was modified 8 years, 8 months ago by pitlove.
    pitlove
    Participant

    I would switch to something else.

    pitlove
    Participant

    Hi Inah-

    Did you discuss a diet change with your vet? It may or may not be necessary to change his diet, so I would discuss this with your vet before starting a homemade diet.

    in reply to: Pedigree Causing Dogs to Die? #90846 Report Abuse Edit Post Visibility
    pitlove
    Participant

    I pretty much second exactly what Hound Music said.

    pitlove
    Participant

    Hi Daisy-

    Sorry to hear about your dogs diagnosis. I think the best thing you can do regarding extras in her diet is consult the diagnosing vet. This will give you a straight forward answer from the person who knows your dogs history and condition best. With such a serious disease looking for help on the internet is ill advised since each situation is so individual to the dog and most blogs on the topic are written by people with no training in veterinary medicine.

    I’m sure your vet would be happy to answer questions over the phone regarding diet.

    Best of luck!

    in reply to: Dog food (Duplicate Topic #4) #90793 Report Abuse Edit Post Visibility
    pitlove
    Participant

    Hi Joy-

    Here are a couple articles that will explain how Dr. Mike rates dog food

    /frequently-asked-questions/rate-dog-food/

    /choosing-dog-food/dog-food-reviews-problems/

    To sum it up, the ratings on the public reviews have nothing to do with the company. That is only factored in with the Editor’s Choice list. Editor’s Choice is a paid membership and not public.

    in reply to: New LARGE puppy #90740 Report Abuse Edit Post Visibility
    pitlove
    Participant

    I see the problem after looking at their puppy formula on the website. The only number provided is the kcals/cup. You need the kcals/kg. Something that if you may need to email them for. But regardless of that the ca/phos ratio is already too high. I’d chose another food.

    in reply to: New LARGE puppy #90734 Report Abuse Edit Post Visibility
    pitlove
    Participant

    I think your error was when you entered in the kcals/kg. That makes the most sense to me.

    in reply to: New LARGE puppy #90729 Report Abuse Edit Post Visibility
    pitlove
    Participant

    Whoa. Something definitely went wrong. Those numbers especially the Ca/calorie ratio is off the charts. You also will need to know the average or max phos for the calculator to work. See if you can get that number. If they won’t give it out I’d switch foods.

    in reply to: Anyone's dog allergic to PEAS? #90705 Report Abuse Edit Post Visibility
    pitlove
    Participant

    Hi suz-

    There is one major overwhelming problem with OTC limited ingredient foods and that is that when tested almost all contained trace amounts of proteins not listed on the bag due to cross contamination. Most companies, especially smaller companies, can not afford and do not shut the plant down to clean the machines between runs. So when you mention added ingredients that aren’t listed on the bag, this problem of cross contamination comes to mind.

    pitlove
    Participant

    Were those numbers the Ca/calorie ratio? If so I’d say 3.8g/1000kcals is kinda high. I also do not like that they still made you guess at the actual numbers. They should be willing to give you a nutrient analysis.

    pitlove
    Participant

    I agree Molly, she’s at the point where her ability to regulate calcium is beginning to mature. It is still recommeneded to keep them on a LBP safe food, but they are past the critical growth period so like you said, it’s probably still safe.

    pitlove
    Participant

    Hi Nick-

    I’m not familiar with Advantage. Could you mean Authority?

    A 9 months old your pup’s ability to regulate calcium is starting to mature. She still is not fully able to regulate it, but she is past the critical growth period at least. I’d still recommend finding out the average or MAX calcium and phosphorus and using the calcium calculator on this site to make sure it’s safe to feed. If the company is difficult to contact or unwilling to give you a nutrient analysis on their large breed puppy formula, I’d go with another food.

    in reply to: New LARGE puppy #90686 Report Abuse Edit Post Visibility
    pitlove
    Participant

    Hi, yes I like Pro Plan. Mainly because it has been AAFCO feed trialed on large breed puppies and is formulated by veterinary nutritionists. Not to mention Purina are one of the two leading researchers in the industry on the topic of large and giant breed puppy growth and nutrition. People may view their products as inferior because they feel they use low quality ingredients. I feel those people are misinformed greatly about the proper way to evaluate a pet food.

    I would also like to add that I like Fromm as well because of the companies long standing history and committment to quality control, similar to Purina.

    pitlove
    Participant

    Hi Anja-

    No, that is a myth. Not that carbs break down into sugar, because they do, but that the sugar feeds yeast. As I said earlier Malassezia is a fat loving yeast, specifically the oils on the skin.

    Molly- You’re welcome! Best of luck with the new food.

    Oh also, take a look at Malaseb shampoo to aid in killing the excess yeast. It has really helped my pitbull during the summer months when his environmental allergies start flaring up. I bathe him twice a week when it’s really bad.

    in reply to: New LARGE puppy #90680 Report Abuse Edit Post Visibility
    pitlove
    Participant

    Hi Jeannine-

    You will need to email the company to find out the average or MAX calcium and phosphorus levels of the food the breeder has your puppy on and then input those values into the tool found here: /best-dog-foods/best-large-breed-puppy-food/

    If the food falls between a ratio of 1.1:1-1.5:1 for Ca/Phos and a 3g/1000kcal Ca/calorie ratio then the food is safe.

    A lot of breeders, vet’s, rescues, dog clubs etc are still unaware that calcium and phosphorus, plus weight gain are what put large and giant breed puppies at higher risk for DOD’s and not protein. So they focus on low protein puppy foods, not realizing protein is not the issue.

    in reply to: Calcium Content Calculator #90679 Report Abuse Edit Post Visibility
    pitlove
    Participant

    Hi P G-

    The calcium calculator will not give you an accurate read out if you use the dry matter or as fed calcium and phosphorus. It has to be the average or MAX calcium and phos levels.

    You will either need to look for a nutrient or typical analysis on the companies website or email them for the info. If they are unwilling to provide you with that info, I would pass on using a food from that company.

    pitlove
    Participant

    Hi again Molly-

    Sorry you’re still having some issues with your pup. Just to correct some inaccurate info, carbs do not feed yeast. Malassezia yeast is the yeast found on the skin and the most common yeast dogs get. Malassezia is a fat loving yeast, however not dietary fats. Oils on the skin sort of fats. Eliminating or decreasing grains will have no effect on the yeast unless she is indeed having an allergic reaction to the grains. Then and only then will removing them from her diet help. Reason being is that yeast is symptomatic of something else that is surpressing the immune system (such as allergies) and causing the once in control population of yeast to become out of control because the immune system is too weak to control it.

    While searching for another food, you can not simply just switch randomly without making sure the food you’re feeding is safe for a LBP. Before feeding Coastal Catch, I would email EarthBorn and ask for an up to date nutrient analysis and run the Ca and Phos through the calcium calculator on here. Remember, Hound Dog Mom’s list is over 2 years old and companies can change their formulas in that time frame.

    pitlove
    Participant

    Hi emorytink-

    The ratings on this website should not deter you from using a food your dog is doing well on. In fact in the article Dr.Mike wrote on here “The Problem with Dog Food Reviews” he even states that a 1 star rated food isn’t necessarily a bad food.

    Let your dog tell you if the food is best for her, not a website.

    pitlove
    Participant

    Hi Erin-

    Fromm is a great food and company. I like their Gold Large Breed Puppy formula. The Fromm website only lists the “as fed” and “dry matter” data in their techinical analysis for the HeartLand Large Breed Gold, which according to the article on DFA for the calcium calculator will not give an accurate read out on the ratio of Ca:P and Ca:kcals. I’d see if you can email Fromm and ask for the “average” or MAX levels of calcium and phos and then use those numbers.

    Grain free vs grain inclusive is a non factor for growth. The important things are regulating calcium intake with an appropriate diet and making sure you are using a food with low energy density. Keeping your puppy lean throughout growth and life will help her better her chances at proper growth and development. It is also going to be important to work with your vet in determining if she is growing at a proper rate given her upringing at the kennel she came from.

    pitlove
    Participant

    Hi Nick-

    What type of store are you looking to shop at? Petco? PetSmart? If so, the best choices from those stores are going to be either Pro Plan Large Breed Puppy or Science Diet Large Breed Puppy. Both AAFCO feed trialed, formulated by veterinary nutritionists, low energy density, and restricted levels of calcium and phosphorus. If you are not interested in feeding one of those brands let me know.

    Also, can you order online?

    pitlove
    Participant

    Hi Molly-

    Yes unfortuntely Purina has gotten a bad reputation, partly due to other companies slandering them. For my dogs personally, Pro Plan is the first food that worked in every aspect for us. Solved my pit’s allergies, something they will eat and something that agrees with their stomachs. I work at a small pet store that carries “premium” foods, so I’ve had an opportunity to try just about all of them. I couldn’t find anything that my pitbull could have that he actually would eat. He’d rather starve than eat some of the “better” foods.

    I definitely would agree with Aimee on this one though. I’d stay with Purina ONE. Best of luck!

    pitlove
    Participant

    Hi golden

    This is actually one of the issues I take up with Orijen’s formulas. I personally dislike how many different proteins they use because if your dog does in fact have some type of a GI reaction to the food, it’s almost damn near impossible to know what ingredient or what about the food is causing it.

    I’m not sure why a lot of puppies do not do well on Orijen, but you are not the first person who has had that complaint. As far as Taste of the Wild goes, if your pup is doing well on it then perhaps that is the best food for her. Just watch recall alerts if you live on the east coast since the South Carolina Diamond plant is where most of their issues have come from.

    pitlove
    Participant

    Hi Molly-

    Here is the good news. Purina ONE Lamb & Rice is an “All Life Stages” food, meaning it is for puppies as well as adults. So techincally she has been on a puppy food this whole time. However, I do not have the MAX calcium and phos for Purina ONE, so I couldn’t tell you if it was LBP safe. I think it would be wise though, to go ahead and put her back on a food that is known to be LBP safe (which Taste of the Wild Puppy is).

    This is around the point of growth when they can begin to regulate calcium properly, but the current recommendation from veterinary nutritionists is to keep LBP’s on a LBP food until a year at the very least, 18 months is better.

    in reply to: Feeding Issues with My LBP #90476 Report Abuse Edit Post Visibility
    pitlove
    Participant

    Hi Lauren-

    You might have luck with Pro Plan Large Breed Puppy. I have a picky pitbull who needs to be on a grain inclusive fish based food and Pro Plan Sensitive Skin & Stomach was the only food he’d actually eat. Pro Plan in general seems to have really good palatability. Not to mention he has very small firm poop on Pro Plan unlike on some other supposedly better foods.

    Best of luck!

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