[Pitlove]

Nulo looks good. Ive been interested in trying it but for some reason my PetSmart doesnt have it in store. At least I havent seen it, might have to look harder.

It doesnt surprise me that she is interested in more stinky food. Dogs sense of smell is their most powerful sense and they are driven by it. Something that smells AWFUL to us ( Beef Tripe for example) is like heaven to them.

[Pitlove]

Hi Dee-

Myself and others have fed Weruva and other products that are made in Thailand. Thailand has been trying to not be associated with Chinas poor quality control problems so I would feel safe feeding something made in Thailand. They have a lot of human grade factories that the dog foods are manufactured in.

[Pitlove]

Aquariangt- My kittens name is Dani thats cute! lol As for Bentley my pit he does well with high protein. He is insanely muscular but has not had any skeletal development issues. Thank god because he was eating Blue Buffalo during his critical growth period.

I could never bring myself to feed him something like Purina or Pedigree Im just wondering if something like Pure Balance with 30% protein would be ok because its pretty cheap. I can buy that whenever Im hard on money and still get him good wet food.

[Pitlove]

Are you still doing the homemade canned recipes you and you vet made? I mentioned before I had this problem with my dog. Now the only way he will eat is with the wet canned food on the bottom and I have to lightly sprinkle the dry on top so that the dry doesnt mix in with the wet (which i mentioned before) I tried everything else and this is what works for me personally. Consider that she has an issue with texture. I know I do as a human, hence why I wont eat applesauce.

I firmly believe that changing my dogs diet regularly has helped him greatly in becoming interested in food again. You wouldnt want to eat chicken and rice your whole life, well your dog doesnt either. Its boring and eventually they grow tired of it. It also makes for a sick gut.

[Pitlove]

The only way my dog will eat is if I put the wet down first and then sprinkle the dry on top. I’ve been using both high protein dry and wet (he actually lost 2 pounds randomly wasnt intended).

Ive just been using 5 star quality kibbles and 4-5 star canned and its busting my wallet so Im trying to see if I dont really NEED to do that.

Right now for dry I have Fromm Four Star Nutrionals and Pure Balance Bison and I also have some THK Beef dhydrated raw. I switch between those right now for variety.
I usually have an assortment of canned foods also for variety but right now Im down to just the 4Health and Pure Balance.

He gets a can of wet and now a cup of dry on top since he lost weight when I was feeding half a cup and he was already at his ideal weight. Dont want him to get too skinny.

[Pitlove]

Hi merleGDgirl-

WellnessCORE puppy is a great choice for a giant breed dog, however I would caution you that they made a recent change to their formulas and it now has green tea extract in it which has been linked to liver toxicity in dogs. As for Orijen and Acana, they are both excellent brands and I would highly recommend them after your pup has reached 8-10 months of age as they both unfortuntely do not make a food with the correct calcium and phosphorus levels that giant breed dogs (especially danes) need for proper bone growth and development. My boyfriends brother has had their great dane on Precise Holistic Complete and he is in excellent condition with no skeletal dieases what so ever. They make a large/giant breed puppy formula. However, you would need to order it online.

WellnessCORE isnt going anywhere in terms of the company. My Petco still carries it and will continue to. It might simply just be PetSmart that does not want to do business with their distributer anymore or something like that.

Does your PetSmart carry Nature’s Variety? They make 2 formulas (The Turkey Limited Ingrident Diet and the Rabbit Meal) that both have correct calcium/phosphorus levels.

Also, here is a list of other foods with those same correct levels, the first half of the list is grain inclusive, the second half is grain free

https://docs.google.com/a/selu.edu/file/d/0BwApI_dhlbnFTXhUdi1KazFzSUk/edit

GL with your new baby! Post some pics!

[Pitlove]

I agree with whoever told you they are detoxing. Its very common (from what i’ve heard) for animals suddenly being fed a much better diet to have diaherra. Not sure how long it should last, someone else would have to weigh in on that. If you (like me and others) have fed the occassional by-product food or “low end” food I can imagine that now on raw they have much more to detox from their body. OR even more so if they were on dry kibble and not human grade canned.

Best suggestion I can give you is call a holistic vet in your area, someone who will understand tranisitioning to raw for felines and ask if what you’re experiencing is typical or atypical and if they feel your kitties should be seen by a vet. I would keep trying the raw. I think their bodies are just in shock from a healthy diet.

[Pitlove]

JM- ya I only wanted to try it with the NV since their reps claim the food is interchangable between species. I figured since it would only be for probably a month or less as I only buy small bags of dog food now it couldn’t hurt to try.

BTW im thawing out some primal chicken and salmon for the kitty (and the pup im sure) for tonight. hoping she likes it!

[Pitlove]

I believe the dry NV still contains taurine, not that that helps me at all. I was actually thinking about doing the NV dry cat food in my rotation for my dog because of how high the protein would be. Definitely gonna try it at some point now!

Ill be giving my pup some more primal tonight then as well 😛

[Pitlove]

Hi Terry-

Dogs aren’t born with allergies, they develop them over time through overexposure to the same food. Even though you were feeding an excellent quality dehydrated raw diet, you didnt vary the proteins she got, hence the sudden onset of the allergy.

As for the myth about the wet food making the teeth worse, its just that, a myth. Every dog needs their teeth brushed regularly just like a human in order to avoid dental problems. Raw meaty bones are also probably the best thing to clean the teeth like Rhonda suggested. And if you were rehydrating the raw as you should its no different than the wet food getting on her teeth.

I would suggest keeping her on the dehyrated raw diet but changing the protein source and even brand, obviously now avoiding whatever protein she is allergic to.

[Pitlove]

No reason you cant feed both. Its important to give your dog variety to keep food interesting for him and keep his stomach healthy.

[Pitlove]

gave my dog one primal nugget of the cat food (cant hurt can it? serious question). he ate it just fine lol. mixed it in with his dry and canned food. the kitty is still eating her canned mixed with primal. i mixed it in really good tonight so she cant just pick it out lol!

[Pitlove]

nice progress JM! Dani ate a little of her Primal raw turkey with her FF turkey (no throw up btw), but shes still hesistant for the raw. I’ll sway her in time tho 😀

[Pitlove]

Why just pick one when you can feed them both! Gives your dog a great variety and keeps the stomach strong and healthy when you feed different foods.

[Pitlove]

Look into Orijen. Both grain free and high protein. Also cut back on how much the dog is eating to get him to drop a few pounds

[Pitlove]

Belinda-

I do know about protein not being a factor for dogs where prevention is the key at the time. I was curious as to if this vet was recommending it due to the dog already having pano or if she was just misinformed and restricting protein for a dog already diagnosed with pano does not actually do anything.

[Pitlove]

bdog- im thinking you’re right. why toture her when i dont need to. i have so many other foods i can choose from that dont make her sick.

c4c- that is a great idea! i love that suggestion. and i love that part about if it shows up twice you stop feeding it. i am totally going to take that idea!

JM- well at least you’ve got one guy eating it! my kitten ate around the primal raw for the most part lol. Im gonna try the turkey with her and see if she likes that better since the one i gave her was beef and we have this beef issue now!

[Pitlove]

I feel like I am overthinking the diet a lot and I’ve been doing that a lot lately with both my animals. I wonder if they use something with Beef recipes that they dont use in others. I really dont know. Ill have to compare.

I have wanted to take her to the vet anyway for a check-up so now I think would be a good time. Hopefully she will address this issue with me without suggesting a prescription diet as I wont feed them.

She has Nurto Max chunks in sauce/gravy right now and no vomiting from those so im not really sure what is going on. I might just take beef out of the equation for now at least with FF and NV and see if that helps.

Do you think its worth testing her on other brands with a beef formula or is that just cruel to her stomach?

[Pitlove]

bentley my pit is quite the aggressive chewer and no broken teeth or huge pieces swallow. i do monitor the size of the antler every day and when it gets to the point where he can fit most of it in his mouth it gets thrown out. thats why i buy him ones that are so oversized he looks ridiculous with it in his mouth.

its just my opinion but its the only thing that has worked for me that he can destroy in 5 mins flat. i got him a bully stick one time and i blinked and it was gone. not really worth my money for him but they are great and i recommend them a lot at work to people. they just dont work for bentley with how fast he can eat them.

[Pitlove]

Hey guys thanks for the responses. So the Nature’s Variety beef is just pate. they only make pates. same thing with the FF but it does have sauce to it as many still do even if its pate. She has eaten a wide range of foods that have sauce including Nutro Max Cat and Natural Choice with no problem so thats why Im even more stumped.

Bdog- Im going to have to go over your grocery store cat food list you gave me again in this thread to see which ones you feed. I might have to limit her to those. She just ate the FF turkey & giblets no problem. I bought the FF variety pack Classic Tender Beef feast, Tender Chicken Feast and Turkey & Giblets Feast. The only one she cant tolerate is the beef.

I think Im gonna need to look further down the ingrident list and compare them all and I need to see what the others had that Merrick didnt since she ate it no problem.
The raw I kinda understood because I know it can be a shock to their system when they first get it. Im gonna try Turkey raw with her tomorrow morning.

JM- She threw up instantly the first time eating both FF and NV

[Pitlove]

ive used deer/elk antlers for my pitbull since he was a few months old. no issues at all, lasts for a long time if you get an oversized one with very little marrow exposed.

• This reply was modified 8 years, 11 months ago by Pitlove.

[Pitlove]

Ah good to know. Figured they manufactured both.

[Pitlove]

alright guys, new issue arising for me with the kitty. 3 times now she has thrown up eating beef. Once it was nature’s variety, second it was fancy feast beef and now this morning she got a little bit of the beef & salmon Primal raw that I got in the sample pack from my pet store and threw that up and wont eat the rest. HOWEVER, last night she got a can of Merrick beef pate to test the waters…no throw up. suggestions? do I take beef out of her diet? Im so confused as to why she threw up NV fancy feast and raw beef but not Merrick…

edit: as i just finished typing this i look up to see her eating the rest of whats in her bowl (Max cat kitten chicken &liver pate mixed with the Primal beef& salmon) lol. I was about to go pick it up and throw it out

• This reply was modified 8 years, 11 months ago by Pitlove.

[Pitlove]

Edward-

I didn’t agree with the change from Merrick to Taste of the Wild for that customer as her dog was doing well on the Merrick canned. I find Merrick to be a much better brand. The only reason the vet was pushing for the change in foods was the high gravy content in Merrick, saying it was all sauce. I suggested some other foods to her that were pates that are not manufactured by Diamond.

[Pitlove]

Carol-

I agree this website is great. I’ve found the forums to be very helpful. Just wanted to mention as a warning with the review section. Once you find a food you like make sure you look further into the company. Find out who manufacters the brand you like, how actually owns the brand, whats the recall history, have they had quality control issues and not recalled a product (similar to Purina’s situation right now).

I think Taste of the Wild is a great example. Its become very popular and we frequently have people coming into my work looking for it but we dont carry it. I even talked to a lady yesterday whos holisitic vet told her to get her dog off Merrick canned products and onto Taste of the Wild.
However, TotW is manufactured by Diamond. A company with a long recall history and poor quality control standards and most people avoid Diamond products like the plague. I mentioned this to her and she was shocked her vet didn’t know about it.

Just when you think your research is done, there is still more to do 😛

[Pitlove]

I agree with Marie. I tend to not like to feed anything under 30% and I like to see whole meats or meat meals as the first three ingredients. It lets me know that carbs are not making up the majority of the food. A healthy dog will process quality animal protein efficiently where as they won’t process plant based proteins as well. And carbs are just unneeded in a dogs diet, however there is no such thing as a carb free kibble as carbs are used as the binder to hold the food in its kibble shape.

Dogs who eat raw eat upwards of 40%+ protein and everyone i’ve ever talked to that feeds raw has had amazing success with it and finds their dog to be far more healthy than the average dog eating kibble. Hence why I stick to very high protein diets. Some I’ve used include Orijen and EVO(before I knew they were bought by Proctor&Gamble).

edit: The % difference when you look at the reviews on this site is a difference in the dry matter basis vs whats on the GA. The dry matter basis is how the carb levels are determined as well. It means that all the moisture content has been factored out just leaving the the meats grains carbs etc left.

/choosing-dog-food/dry-matter-basis/

• This reply was modified 8 years, 11 months ago by Pitlove.
• This reply was modified 8 years, 11 months ago by Pitlove.

[Pitlove]

Any reason for the change from Orijen/Acana? Both are very good quality foods. Did she do well on those foods?

A lot of people who work at big box stores don’t have a lot of knowledge of dog nutrition and only go based off what others recommend or brands they have heard to be good quality and that can range from a variety of foods based on opinion. There are some people who DO have a grasp on dog nutrition but they are few and far between.

Personally, I’d consult with a holisitic vet if I were in your shoes. It seems like a lot more is going on with your dog than what meets the eye, especially with the strange symptoms you’re describing. If your regular vet is just sending you home with pills and not asking questions, its time for a new vet. It’d be like you going to a therapist, telling them you have anxiety and you walking out with a presciption and them having asked no questions to find the root cause. I’m sure you wouldn’t go back to that therapist. I know I wouldn’t.

• This reply was modified 8 years, 11 months ago by Pitlove.

[Pitlove]

Correct, most dogs especially puppies do need time to transition to new foods. Some dont. Just depends on how healthy their stomach is. You can start doing 25% new food 75% old food for a few days, then 50/50 then 75 new 25 old and then all new. If he needs 7 days fine, if he needs 2 week so be it. Monitor his stool. if they start to get loose when you have increased the percent of new food you can take a step back and giving him some canned pumpkin couldnt hurt. Someone correct me if Im wrong about the pumpkin though.

[Pitlove]

While Orijen is a great food, it does not meet the proper calcium requirements for large breed puppies (none of their food does including the LBP formula). Wellness CORE puppy however, does. I would go with Wellness CORE for now. Here is a link to other foods that have proper calcium levels for up until hes about 8 to 10 mos and can absorb the calcium properly.

https://docs.google.com/a/selu.edu/file/d/0BwApI_dhlbnFTXhUdi1KazFzSUk/edit

I would absolutely recommend Orijen for after the 8 to 10 mos. Its an amazing food and my dog loved it!

edit: I would also recommend either of the Nature’s Variety formulas mentioned on the list.

• This reply was modified 8 years, 11 months ago by Pitlove.

[Pitlove]

Hi Jen-

You and your dogs stomach might have a different idea of how slow slow is. If there was a portion you were feeding lets say 25% new food and 75% old food and he wasnt having loose stools, go back to that portion and start again. He might just need more time to adjust to a better quality food after eating the same food for a few months with poor quality ingredients. Adding the probiotic (i keep kefir and greek yogurt both plain on hand for food transitions) will help along with canned pumpkin for the fiber. Canned pumpkin has done wonders for my dog if he has some loose stool but I have to feed quite a bit because hes 64lbs.

[Pitlove]

Hi Kari-

I disagree that a puppy and 5 year old dog can’t eat the same food. You can absolutely feed the same food to both you would just maybe not feed the same amounts. Idk if you consider your dog a senior dog at 5, but if you do senior dogs need MORE protein than puppies and adult dogs contrary to popular belief. Senior diets are often very very low in protein however, a puppy food wouldn’t be. I never care about what the front of a bag says. My pitbull is currently eating a food marketed for “small breeds” lol. its just smaller kibble size and hes fine with it. I would have no problem feeding him puppy, adult or senior food as long as the ingredients were up to par for me and the nutrient profile was correct.

Take a look at the list Dori linked. Those are all foods that have proper calcium levels for large breed puppies like your golden doodle. and please make sure you don’t overfeed as that, along with improper calcium/phos levels can cause many skeletal disorders like pano, OCD and hip dysplasia.

[Pitlove]

I probably have seen it but I just read it now. looks really really interesting.

and wow about the rabbit holes…we dont have many around here, but we have enough to get my dog in trouble. gotta be extra careful now.

[Pitlove]

L M thanks for the info about the roundworms. was not aware of that. im always extra careful with bones as my dog is a power chewer and tends to be one of those dogs who wants to eat everything. the only thing that seems to work for him and i’ve never had any intestional problems with are elk/deer antlers

[Pitlove]

chris- most of the risk of salmonella is to the human not the dog, from what i’ve read. thats why when preparing any raw food you need to make sure you follow very strick cleanliness routines. raw food is what a dogs body was biologically designed to eat. many people who have switched to raw find that their dogs are far healthier and only need to go to the vet for annual checkups. this is however on an all raw diet, but adding the fresh raw helps add live, unprocessed, uncooked food back into their diet to balance out the kibble and the kibble intern provides the vitamins, minerals and antioxidants that the piece of beef doesnt have. it is far from dangerous for the dog though. its great for cats too! hell, even better for cats

[Pitlove]

hmm..ya you have might have had a lemon then. i havent used a grinder before but i watched a video about making raw cat food and that was a big issue she mentioned.

hopefully your next one works better!

[Pitlove]

only advice i can offer is make sure the blade is not in backwards. ive heard that can create those type of issues and its very common for people to not realize the blade is in backwards.

[Pitlove]

chris + naturella–
thanks! i usually either get “thats weird and gross” or “thats cool!” lol never really an inbetween reaction to my profession choice. i’ve worked in customer service for so many years i need a break from living people lol! and ive always been interested in forensics as well.

chris- if you can get fresh meats as a topper for the kibble i think that would be a great way to get some raw into Sparkys diet. And as long as the kibble is the vast majority of the meal you are safe from it being unbalanced.

I’ve tried raw meaty bones for my dog and he just licked at it and really didnt understand how to chew it lol. i might need to try again with a larger one as hes a big dog and i got him a dinky little bone just to try it out.

Naturella- with RMB’s is it safe to feed them outside even if you dont have like a porch for them to eat it on? im afraid of dirt and stuff getting into it.

[Pitlove]

im not really sure. our catnip dies so much faster than the wheat grass at work and my manager told me i could just water them and they would grow back but they did not grow back lol. i highly doubt it would have the same effect if it was completely dead and dried out.

[Pitlove]

hah ya. over the years ive tried to get used to bad smells as I want to work as an embalmer when im done with school and eventually in forensics so im quite lucky my nose is awful! I was so getting ready to get blasted by an awful smell though from everyones description haha

[Pitlove]

ill definitely be getting it again as one of my special non-budget canned foods i get him to balance quality. i put back the can of Nature’s Variety Rabbit for a second can of tripe! saved a little money doing that too lol

[Pitlove]

i have a terrible sense of smell which works to my favor. didnt bother me at all lol

[Pitlove]

speaking of budget foods my kitten could barely finish a whole 4health can 🙁 she seriously can only finish a 3oz can its crazy! i was so excited to try 4health with her too. Might just split the can up

[Pitlove]

So speaking of the Solid Gold Green Tripe that was mentioned earlier, you guys made me want to get a couple cans for my dog tonight! so i did. he loved it of course haha

[Pitlove]

hi- my dog has white feet and he was licking them to the point of them being redish brown. turned out to be a yeast infection. have you talked with a vet about the cause? it may not be the food. i’ve fed orijen after anti-fungal meds and foot soaks and his feet have cleared up.

[Pitlove]

Good thinking! I was not aware that they could build up a resistance to it. Ill definitely cut back on the Perfect Form. If not just eliminate it all together now and save it for when he eats a new food to help with his stomach adjusting.

Should I go through the whole 32oz bottle of kefir first and then switch to another one or can I keep yogurt and kefir on hand and switch them up often?

Also for my kitten, shes on all wet and often eats a different brand of wet food every meal. any suggestions for feeding the Perfect Form to her? she gets it too with breakfast as of now, but I dont wanna over feed it.

[Pitlove]

Thank you Naturella thats exactly what i was talking about as an idea for Chris to do! You stated it perfectly. Rather than blending the foods just feed ANY food you find interested that you’d like Sparky to try for a couple weeks or however long it lasts for then switch!

Chris- The supplement I have is made by the Honest Kitchen and its called Perfect Form

http://www.thehonestkitchen.com/treats-supplements/supplements/perfect-form

i have the 5.5oz jar. I dont follow their instructions for how much to feed. i just do about one pinch on my kittens food and two or three pinches for the dog. i felt it their guildlines where far too much. maybe im wrong but idk this has been working for me. you can feed it however you want. I got the Kefir at walmart for a little over 3$. there are feeding guidelines for that on the internet too. they tell you to cut the number in half when first giving it to get their stomach used to it.

[Pitlove]

I’ve read too that texture and even shape can be a huge factor for cats. maybe there is a way to make the raw mixture more chunky like canned food? im not really sure. it sounds like you have a lot of the difficult parts out of the way. i had such an easy time transitioning my kitten to wet food. she would get dry in the morning and canned at night and she actually PREFERED the canned food! it was awesome. she only weighs 6lbs at 8mos. Very small for her age but not underweight at all. vet told me she was a “teacup”??

darwins site recommended for her age feeding 4%. idk if thats right but it said about 2lbs a week if I remember correctly.

[Pitlove]

chris and naturella- Orijen and even merrick arent always for everyone, however with the protein and all being similar I figured it couldn’t hurt to suggest. My dog from the beginning has always eaten a high protein food. I refuse to feed anything under 30% protein on a dry matter basis. I find there are far less carbs when you get into that realm and animal protein and fat is easier to digest than carbs and plant proteins for any healthy dog.

Also Chris, if there is ever a food u want to try but the price is outlandish, you can always get the smallest size bag and add that to the rotation to give him some variety and then next bag can be the cheaper but still good food. i have a 66lb AmStaff (named Bentley since we are sharing lol) and I keep him at his ideal weight with a 13.2oz can of whatever I have of wet food and 1/2 cup of whatever dry food he’s on with a digestive supplement in the morning and kefir at night and Im able to get 5 lb bags and have them last for a month if not a little longer. The Tripe is also an excellent idea, however as it is for supplemental feeding only you would probably find yourself feeding more dry with the Tripe. I have yet to try Tripe but I have heard the same thing Naturella said about the smell!

[Pitlove]

jakes mom- Keep at it! I was watching Dr.Beckers video on transitioning cats to raw and from what she said, if they have a dry food addiction or are just stubborn it can takes months up to a year to get them switched to raw! She has great tips for it in the video though if you want to check it out.

Patience seems to be the key with cats. Maybe they will be smart and take Dustins lead on this one!

[Pitlove]

Chris- I completely understand the budget thing. I feed canned food as well as dry to supplement the lack of moisture in the dry food and I have to go as cheap as I can with the canned without stooping down to Pedigree etc. So I use some 4 and 5 star canned foods from Tractor Supply and Walmart.

Natural Balance is a big seller at my store as well. Personally I dont like the food and I dont like the company now that it was sold to Del Monte. They dont have the greatest track record and I personally feel their food is way to high in carbs and they over use white potato as a main ingredient leaving their protein far too low for my taste.

Being that I feed canned as well I only need a 5 or 6 lb bag of dry food as he only gets 1/2 cup of dry with his can of wet, so even though for some of the Orijen I’ve paid 26$ for it, it didnt really bother me. But i understand that buying their largest bag usually at over 100$ is not something most people can do.

I used to buy Nature’s Variety as well. I really liked the brand but back when I bought large bags I only bought NV because we were getting 40% for the whole year as employees lol!

[Author]

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