[apriliamille]

that petsworld link. please dont follow that to the T

[apriliamille]

did you all see the 2 new earthborn holistic grain free?
large breed and weight control

http://www.earthbornholisticpetfood.com/us/dog_formulas/large_breed/

koa’s mom this might be the thing for your dogs with the 26 protein in it

[apriliamille]

i dont think they sell retail. its through them direct to order it. their prices have ship included so what you see is price to the door via ups. they have a 5 pound test bag and i dont recall being charged for that one to ship either. i shipped in one for my aunt’s little poodle (amazing how far 5 pounds can go for a small dog)

[apriliamille]

koa’s mom,
i had that turmoil when i first got my doberman pup in march and was advised to go low protein low calcium for the first few months of her life. dfa reviews do tend to favor high protein foods and i dont recall a grain free 5 star kibble that is sub 30 percent. there are real good 3 and 4 star foods. they just dont have the protein content to make it a higher star but they have outstanding real ingredients just like the higher star foods.
i used redmoon chicken and potato (23% protein, 1% calcium, 4.5% ash, 0.9% phosphorous). its 3.5 stars. their lamb and potato is 4.5 stars and their chicken and yellow pea is 5 stars. i seriously dont think they put junk in their lower star rated food to earn that star rating.
have you looked at drtims kinesis als? its 26 percent protein. or did i miss something about mandatory grain free?

edit. when she hit 7 months i started transitioning in earthborn meadowfeast, drtims pursuit and drtims kinesis als. in her 9th month i do a rotation of meadowfeast and kinesis als but still use a redmoon chicken and potato base cuz i like it and they do good on it (the boxer adult is on the redmoon as well)

• This reply was modified 10 years, 6 months ago by apriliamille.
• This reply was modified 10 years, 6 months ago by apriliamille.

[apriliamille]

i hear ya on saving money during a hard time. i had to transition to a cheaper food during a bad time. i had success with earthborn holistic meadowfeast, drtims pursuit, and drtims kinesis als. went from $4.25 a day to $3.75 to $3.00 a day. granted we are feeding 2×60 ish pound dogs.
look at petflow.com and chewy.com it will help with the local tax in reducing costs (unless your in navada for petflow or where ever chewy is located) also try and get the bigger sized bags. the price per pound gets cheaper the larger you go in volume purchase, keep it in a sealable container (like a rubbermaid garbage container) in the bag to help with maintaining freshness. purchases over 50 bucks from them are free ship

[apriliamille]

mfulton7

i used pure canned pumpkin with my transitions. i believe pumpkin is considered prebiotic. maybe look at a prebiotic or use canned pumpkin (not the pumpkin pie cans). the transitions i have done are slowwwwww. a couple pieces for a day or two. then 25 percent of one of their meals for a day or so then 50 percent of their meal for a day or so.. and on and on. also i use a tablespoon or two of pumpkin with their meals. and their bed time crate kong treat is a frozen layer of pumpkin and peanut butter (if i use too much new food and nightly walk looks a little off)
im in the middle of doing a drtim kinesis and am up to half of her breakfast meal. her poop is kickable if that makes sense.

edit. oh yeah i forgot about our sundays which might play a factor in how our dogs are doing (we do a variant of the 5/1/1 meal plan). our dogs get a raw breakfast of venison, elk (compliments of a game locker here in our region) a baked sweet potato, cooked green beans, herring in plain water, and either a cored apple, cored pear or bannana depending on what we have that morning along with plain greek yogurt. dinner is a raw marrow bone

• This reply was modified 10 years, 6 months ago by apriliamille.
• This reply was modified 10 years, 6 months ago by apriliamille.

[apriliamille]

i think earthborn holistic meadowfeast doesnt have potatoes

[apriliamille]

jewels
as per your post about bag size. i only get small bags of a food to test the dogs.
once they are transitioned i dont think it matters what bag size the dog requires. to me it just makes more sense to buy the largest size i can get. some of the price models are just nuts with the higher price per pound scaling the less you get. i assume we are talking large breed so i wouldnt even bother worrying about opened bags depleting nutrients through the air
but, just in case, the larger earthborn bags have a ziplock system even though i cut the upc off and mail into earthborn for the upc for trees program. my base dog food comes in zip lock 7 pound increments in a 7×7 pound shipment so i have probably 21 spare empty heavy duty zip locked foil lined bags to fill up with what ever large bags of food i have come

[apriliamille]

jewels
sorry i wasnt trying to do a shameless plug for earthborn. i actually rotate between 2 differant food companies and have been testing a third
i only shared websites that I have seen and used their retail finder and an example of order ship times from chewy.com on a product i actually ordered

[apriliamille]

jewels
are you any where near idaho falls?
there are a few victor pet foods on the list and their website says ameripet in idaho falls and pet center in rigby and 58 paws in hailey

i also did a zip code for idaho falls and set for 200 miles and got a decent list on the earthborn holistic website. try there for local retail stores?
http://www.earthbornholisticpetfood.com/us/where_to_buy/retail_stores.php

some of the online stores have rotational automatic send out options so you dont have to worry. and you can get good foods for alot less then the amount you posted in your comment that i cant remember (80 a bag?) that i cant scroll up to see

blah lots of edits. i had a large bag of earthborn holistic come to me in central utah from petflow.com they shipped from las vegas. 2 days ship to american fork utah

• This reply was modified 10 years, 6 months ago by apriliamille.
• This reply was modified 10 years, 6 months ago by apriliamille.

[apriliamille]

mfulton7
look at chewy.com and petflow
i have gotten small bags to try from chewy.com they tend to have more of the smaller increments (atleast for the earthborn and the drtims) the dogs just get a lucky care package as i boost the shop cart to 50 bucks for the free ship. (yeah im like that) i tend to order from petflow the most though as they ship quicker to me. (they are in vegas and im in utah)
a couple questions: is grain free a mandatory requirement? (maybe its in an earlier posting i missed) reason im asking is due to drtims kinesis ALS comes to mind as it has ocean herring meal, catfish meal, menhaden fish oil and salmon meal in it) . (i have a small size on the way to test it) its 1.48 per pound and on the 2nd list from HDM. earthborn coastal 1.82 a pound. if your concerned about coat health and you just cant find that ideal dog food you like. you could always toss an egg into the kibble and some canned sardines in water (buck a can at walmart) every so often. our boxer and dobe pup get an egg 3 times a week tossed into their kibble and a can of the sardines once a week.

there are tons of good foods out there, hound dog mom’s list is the best of the stars system and the petfood companies that actually were willing to divulge information to her

[apriliamille]

we give our dogs a free range egg 3 times a week. we wash them and then just put in the bowl and let them chomp down on it shells and all

[apriliamille]

hmm i had not thought about the fiber percents i was blaming it on the corn in the canin. her main base kibble is 3 percent fiber

[apriliamille]

mfulton7,
ive never tried those brands.
my dobe pup from 8-12 weeks was on royal canin maxi puppy, she seemed to poop a lot from memory. then she went on redmoon chicken potato (3 cups) and the poop seamed to not happen as much and the farts were non existant. in her 7th month ive transitioned some earthborn meadowfeast (financial issues as to why) but still using redmoon as a base (4 cups combined). she got some gas back but the poop is still only maybe 4 times a day

[apriliamille]

lizziegotloew
that is a huge upgrade from the ol roy which had corn first on the list, the iams has meat first
remember, we feed to our means so dont sweat it if you cant purchase high dollar stuff
using a grain food will help with costs

[apriliamille]

lizziegotloew
do you have a costco card?
can you see if you can afford kirkland brands? if budget is a problem then look for a grain food and not focus on grain free types.
but please oh please if you can do not feed him ol’roy
shopping online at petflow or chewys and hitting 49 bucks is free ship
also if they are not in your state that removes taxes. that might help a bit on budget

[apriliamille]

dana629
for what it’s worth. Dr tim hunt (dr tim’s) made a post in another forum:
Did you know that a large breed dog has calcium/phosp needs that are acceptable for a yorkie, but if use what is acceptable for a yorkie it could be too high for a large breed dog
technically you cant go wrong selecting from that list in the prior post as they are good for large breed
use petflow or chewy if you see something you like that you cant get local

• This reply was modified 10 years, 7 months ago by apriliamille.

[apriliamille]

dana629

start with hound dog mom’s spread sheet and find something that you might like

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0BwApI_dhlbnFTXhUdi1KazFzSUk/edit

[apriliamille]

/forums/topic/large-and-giant-breed-puppy-nutrition/

huge thread with several documents hound dog mom created. has an outstanding list of grain and grain free foods for a large breed pup look around page 15

• This reply was modified 10 years, 7 months ago by apriliamille.
• This reply was modified 10 years, 7 months ago by apriliamille.

[apriliamille]

wow netherlands to dallas, texas bet that is a scenery change. nothing quite like saying welcome to usa outside of plopping into texas. start a thread in the raw section to help with locations and ideas for looking for raw for where you are moving to.

gsdmommy89, are you looking for one food for both the adult and the pup?

• This reply was modified 10 years, 7 months ago by apriliamille.

[apriliamille]

antar.
not intending to de rail the thread. but pending on where you moved to in the usa. look up game and live stock butchers and lockers. we have one here in utah who grinds up the remnants from the deer and elk and sells it as a dog raw for .89 a pound. 2nd shop grinds up and includes the organs and bones for about 1.50 pound

[apriliamille]

ah i hadnt thought of that. maybe i can use that in another month or two. Poppy is 8 months and have been following the large breed food guidelines as i have come to the understanding that dobermans are either medium or large breed standard pending on parents (her dad was in the 90’s and mom in the upper 70’s). dont want to risk her body with the calcium etc etc i see the great plains is 1.50 percent calc vs meadow 1.20

• This reply was modified 10 years, 7 months ago by apriliamille.

[apriliamille]

ok ill look for a 3rd and 4th.
right now her main is redmoon chicken and potato
doing a rotation with earthborn meadow which is lamb, pea and tapioca
which will give her 2 different proteins and 2 different starch
maybe the 3rd can be earthborn coastal for the fish
4th… hmmmm

[apriliamille]

murphysmom,
i cant remember which forum i read it on but tim hunt (dr tim) had an interesting discussion about “meal” and why he used it and considering iditerod sled dogs use his stuff im sure its valid. i may be wrong in my understanding but pretty much i took it as take a deboned chicken and dehydrate it then prep it for kibble mix then compare it to chicken meal on a protein per weight amount then look at the cost and efforts to put a good protein kibble to market at a value. we use a kibble that has “deboned chicken” as the first ingredient and its definitely hitting the pocket book. (i assume since my dogs are getting a premium chicken breast in their kibble instead of a grocery store for human use)
i think there is quality to “meal” look at some of the ash contents of the kibbles using meal. there are some good numbers out there.
on a side note. i have been transitioning my pup onto meadowfeast to help with the pocket book while i do more research on her food i want to use when she hits 1 year old and i start pushing her physically. i have to feed her on a tray exclusively with the meadowfeast (not saying yours will need to) its a smaller kibble then she has ever had and she has reverted to her younger days of vacuum. also the earthborn UPC for Trees is a neat program they do.

• This reply was modified 10 years, 7 months ago by apriliamille.
• This reply was modified 10 years, 7 months ago by apriliamille. Reason: keep finding i dont make sense in my sentances

[apriliamille]

wow. he replied on labor day
he says pursuit will do fine for my age dobe. just have to watch her “leanness”

[apriliamille]

due to this:

/disclaimer-and-disclosure/

i try and buy from petflow

[apriliamille]

hdm,
thanks
i have been emailing with dr tim, guess i was trying to shave a day or two off my eta of ordering some. why? i dont know. i got home friday night from work to a dr tim email suggesting pursuit for my what i plan on doing with my pup. was going to order a trial size and get it coming in the mail then i was on the web site and put the brakes on. i didnt see puppy or ALS next to it. so i put up a post here for thoughts on it. sending an email verifying my puppy age with him and then order a sample in upon his response.

• This reply was modified 10 years, 7 months ago by apriliamille.

[apriliamille]

this is hound dog moms calculation just saying so it dont look like im stealing credit
saved one of her posts on her calculations into a notepad doc on my computer

To calculate grams of calcium per 1,000 kcal. do the following:
1) Calculate grams of calcium per kilogram – Multiply the actual percent calcium by 1,000 grams (it’s very important that you obtain the actual level of calcium from the company, don’t use the minimum stated on the bag as foods often contain much more than the stated minimum).
2) Divide grams of calcium per kilogram by calories per kilogram (calories per kilogram can generally be found on the product packaging or website).
3) Multiply the grams of calcium per calorie (obtained in step 2) by 1,000 calories.

For example, if a food states that the actual level of calcium is 1.2% and there are 3,500 calories per kilogram: 1,000 grams X 0.012 = 12 grams of calcium per kilogram. 12 grams of calcium per kilogram/3,500 calories per kilogram = 0.00343 grams of calcium per calorie. 0.00343 grams of calcium per calorie X 1,000 calories = 3.43 grams of calcium per 1,000 calories.

I evaluated the Taste of the Wild Formulas when I created the list and none had appropriate calcium levels for large or giant breed growth.

[apriliamille]

cdubau
in my opinion
nature’s variety is on the hound dog mom’s 2nd .doc list. dont lose sleep over the royal canin, i fell for that one. our boxer was on the boxer formula for 2 years and our dobe pup on maxi puppy for 2 months and will never look back at it. there is soo much better for less price. innova gives me the heeby jeebies, it seams every time i go to petsmart to weigh my dogs or get new toys that section of the aisle is yanked with recall signs posted (i think 3 times this year alone)
two victor grain formulas are on the .doc list as well
Victor Select Chicken Meal & Brown Rice Formula
Victor Select Lamb Meal & Brown Rice Recipe

[apriliamille]

is 4health from diamond?

http://www.fda.gov/Safety/Recalls/ucm343084.htm
yes this document says cats but i wonder if the dog food is made from diamond as well
that might help narrow in on the nutritional info

• This reply was modified 10 years, 8 months ago by apriliamille.

[apriliamille]

whitney, would it be a possibility to match something up from the lists with chewy.com or petflow.com?

reason im asking unless i missed it somewhere “its just a bit of a drive to costco so i would like something close”
hit 50 dollars on those websites and shipping is free to your door step. opens up a lot more options for food

[apriliamille]

yay for doberpuppies
the thread pattyvaughn mentions is a good read. also when you click on the google docs pdf link around page 15 make sure and book mark it so you can reference it later. i dont want to violate any rights of hound dog mom and re paste the link with out her permission

imo feeding from a recall company is a crap shoot and the lottery. the odds of it happening are probably slim, but if the odds show up i hope im not the one and i definitely would regret it for a long time (thus why i skip the dog food aisle at Costco) if i am the one

i would look at the doc and then open up petflow.com (their website has a price per pound display) and chewy.com and do some price and ingredient comparisons then check their analysis on this site and not stress about local purchase. there are quite a few good foods at various price points on the list. most of the online shops will free ship above 50 dollar purchases. find a couple that interest you and maybe try a sample or two as we all have our favorite brands and im sure they pretty much wont all zero in the exact same 1-5 brand and types. also maybe search on dobermantalk website in the feeding section for some more ideas

• This reply was modified 10 years, 8 months ago by apriliamille. Reason: content
• This reply was modified 10 years, 8 months ago by apriliamille.

[apriliamille]

hello all, i just read the entire thread and whew tons of information. i have a few questions but wanted to also make a few comments if they would help as well.

my 7 month old doberman girl is a rocket eater. so fast she throws up. i found i was able to slow her down by using one of our deep wall cookie sheets for her food. prior to this she would eat so fast that she would finish in time, throw up, eat again and then go and try to ninja the boxer’s food while he was eating. now the boxer finishes first and stares at her eating. a nice cheap solution to speed eating.

i saw a couple posts on high value treats. i live in central utah and we have a meat and game processing locker here called fords. they sell dog jerky treats that my girl goes bonkers over during our track training. i messed up a small ziplock baggie thats in our training pack and whew, the leash harness and toys smelled like the jerky the next session. they sell them on ebay for 15 bucks / 2 pounds free ship

hound dog mom, thank you soooo much for the information docs. one of the pages back i saw where dr tim was removed from the 2nd list but man it took me 3 hours to get through the whole thread. was it due to it not saying puppy or ALS on the packaging? i cant remember. This list came at a very fortunate time for me. we love our food we feed but due to a short term financial crisis emergency i have to reduce costs untill i get back on my feet. luckily i have 70 pounds of her current food available for her to help with a transition. im hoping to find something i can supplement her current with until i get back on my feet (i hope that makes sense). i was starting off thinking after the first doc of either earthborn or dr tim. but then the 2nd doc came out. any suggestions on this?

also we have a facebook group that is for our zip code regional for pets. may i share your doc on that for others to look at?

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