[soho]

Hi i8ok

Thank you for your reply! Let’s take a closer look at the Plato Organic Chicken strips.
First the marketing claims:
Over 90% organic chicken
Natural ingredients, fortified with antioxidant vitamins, and zinc
No artificial colors, flavors, synthetic preservatives, or GMO’s (genetically modified organisms)
Naturally preserved.
Antioxidant vitamins E and С
No meat by-products or meals

Second the Actual Numbers and ingredients:
GUARANTEED ANALYSIS
Crude protein: 30% min
(How in the world are these treats over 90% chicken and only 30% protein?)
Crude fat: 30% min
(Where did all this fat come from if the treats are over 90% chicken?)
Crude fiber: 1% max
Moisture: 15% max
(This moisture level is a little too high in my opinion to guarantee against spoilage.)
Zinc: 180mg/kg min
Vitamin E: 101 lU/kg min
Ascorbic acid (vitamin C) 50mg/kg min*
Omega 6 Fatty Acids –
Omega 3 Fatty Acids –
Iron –

INGREDIENTS
Organic chicken, organic brown rice, salt, zinc propionate, vitamin E supplement, L-ascorbyl-2phosphate (a source of vitamin C), mixed tocopherols (a natural preservative), rosemary extract.

—————————————————————————————————————————-

Now lets take a look at the facts about my chicken jerky:
Made from boneless, skinless chicken breasts bought at the deli section of Costco. This is not pet grade chicken. I know that there are a million marketing claims concerning the chicken in pet foods and treats but not one of the commercial brands are made using supermarket meat like I use. This is the same meat that you and your family eat.

You say you wont eat farm raised fish or feed it to your dog. I respect you for that. But why would you feed your dog pet grade chicken which is a by product of the human grade food business? Pet grade chicken (or any other pet grade meat for that matter) is what is left over after everything that can be used for human grade chicken is removed! And that’s the good stuff. The bad pet grade meats are the Dead, Dying, Downed or Diseased meats that never made into the human food chain in the first place!

Ingredients: 99.8% boneless skinless chicken breasts, salt, garlic. The only thing added to my chicken jerky is 0.2% spices (salt and garlic).

Guaranteed analysis as fed:
Protein 87%
(You read that right 87% now what treat could be better for a meat eater)
Fat 4.5%
(This is what the fat could be in other products if they used the same chicken breasts that I do)
Carbohydrate 0%
(Remember dogs have no biological need for carbs)
Minerals 3.5%
(This is what ash is)
Fiber 0%
Moisture 5%
(5% moisture is low enough to ensure against spoilage)

The chicken I use is Whole Chicken Breasts intended FOR human consumption. Not ground pet grade chicken (Plato)

My chicken jerky is JUST chicken and 0.2% spices. Plato uses brown rice as a filler.

When you look at the facts my jerky is a great value. Compare my jerky to other human grade jerky products sold for human consumption and you will see that my jerky is an OUTSTANDING value!

Thank you aimee

[Alexandra]

Hi Melissa,

I am concerned that they don’t mention titering or exemptions. I know when I register for shows vaccines or health records NEVER come up.

I did misread the heartworm/parasites stance.

But how can a private organization feel that they can tell a club what they should allow? Who drives the AVMA?

First they frown upon raw foods, now they are going after homeopathic practices, where do they stop? I doubt that their motives are 100% pure. Their vets would gain an influx of business by having vets do all of these tests, and most are probably not necessary.

I have been skeptical of this organization for sometime, and even more so recently.

[Mike Sagman]

Mike P.

PetFlow had absolutely nothing to do with my decision. And you must certainly know that. After all, I took the time to send you a private email explaining – in precise detail – the exact reasons I had decided to temporarily close these threads.

I also responded to the comment you posted this morning on the Hypoallergenic Dog Foods thread where you said:

“Good by DFA friends I’m outa here…I do not agree with closing the Brothers thread. It was our place to hang out…”

In case you didn’t get a chance to read my response to you, I’ve reproduced it again here:

“Dear Mike P,

“We’re sorry to see you go. However, please understand this website was created to help its readers choose a dog food by providing each visitor with objective, unbiased information they can trust.

“DFA was never designed to be a chat room or a place for people to simply “hang out”. Or for any one thread to become a marketing mechanism for any specific brand. For that would be entirely unfair to the other 750+ product lines covered by DFA.

“The shear volume of daily activity, irrelevant discussions, product marketing and drama on the Brothers thread has become grossly disproportionate to the rest of our blog.

“As such, it’s also become an unacceptable distraction to the hundreds of other articles, reviews and threads published here.

“Although fewer than one-half of 1% (of our readers) actually participate in our community, their comments and arguments are visible to and read by more than 28,000 visitors each day.

“Once again, we’re sorry to see you go. You’ve contributed much to our community. In any case, you’re certainly welcome to return whenever you’re ready. We wish you all the best.”

Over the last year, I’ve received numerous written complaints from folks who feel DFA has become biased in favor of Brothers. Some have actually accused me of having a financial interest in Brothers – which I’m sure you must know – is simply not true.

The dangerous impression of bias and exaggerated importance given the Brothers brand created by these bloated and (many times) irrelevant threads can have on a trusted website like DFA can no longer be ignored.

For all the reasons I’ve already detailed, I will never compromise the integrity and trust placed in The Dog Food Advisor by its more than 28,000 daily readers – loyal readers who collectively consume more than 3.5 million page views each month.

Mike – I hope your sole reason for being here on DFA wasn’t just “the drama” you enjoyed on the Brothers threads. For if it was, you’ll be disappointed to learn I’m not planning to re-open them anytime soon.

[Melissaandcrew]

ALexandra-

Just took a quick look and I am not getting the same thing you got : )

1) it says the guidelines would be vaccinated as appropriate for the shows area-this makes sense. If parvo is a huge factor in a show area, it only makes sense that all dogs coming to the show be current or titered The question would come into play as to what each individual show is requiring(which some shows already do!) I am betting that exemptions would not be an issue since the vaccine status is verified by your own veterinarian : )

2) Dogs would have to have certificate for interstate travel(this is a basic health exam and form that gets filled out) Believe it or not, many states already have these laws in place, owners just ignore them or never look into them. Rescues/transporters for rescues keep a travel log and any dog travelling through an affected state are certain to travel with required paperwork

3)No where does it say flea/heartworm preventative is required. It says the dog must be internal and externally parasite free. For me, that is a no brainer. This can be accomplished with a fecal and visual check at the health exam for transport.

[Mom2Cavs]

I just want to say I’m thankful for this new forum. Conversations just like the one here belong on it, and not on the actual food rating section, imho. I often go to another rating site, dogfood.chat, that also has a forum. You can look at the ratings of the different foods but if you have questions or want to find out more info. or get into a lengthy discussion then they have a forum. I like the forum they have and the moderator(s) keep it pretty clean lol. They have a few regulars, too. Once I felt insulted and left, but then later started commenting again. I like this site soooo much better, but in all honesty, and no disrespect to Richard or Brothers, I feel the drama and other things on the Brothers thread was sometimes overwhelming. Bottom line is, though, it is Dr. Mike S.’s site and I’m glad he’s finally taken a stand.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi Jens –

Check out the “Transitioning to Raw” thread and the “Suggested Raw Dog Food Menus?” thread – there are a lot of tips on getting started and some recipes there. Dogaware.com is a great resource for beginners and I would also recommend purchasing a copy of “Unlocking the Canine Ancestral Diet” by Steve Brown – it’s a very comprehensible and quick read, a great book for raw newbies. As for a grinder, I personally don’t use a grinder for my RMBs – your dogs miss out on the dental benefits if you grind the bones. I know a few people here do use grinders though, maybe one of them will pop in with what kind they have.

[Saireah]

Hello! This is EXACTLY the thread that I was looking for. We have a 1.5 year old vizsla/lab mix who has hip dysplasia. While I feel as if I didn’t feed her the best food during her first year (Nature’s Recipe – Large Breed Puppy), I have been feeding her better food since. I’m definitely more educated. She’s currently transitioning to Fromm’s Four Star Grain-Free Game Bird recipe from Acana Ranchlands due to itchiness from Acana.
We are fostering a lab/mastiff mix whose parents were a 60lb lab (mom) and a 150lb purebred mastiff (dad). I have been trying to find the “best” food to feed him — and I am thrilled that I might be able to feed the same food to both of my dogs!
I do have a question, though. You state that Dr. Tim’s Kinesis (grain-free) has 1.3% calcium — where did you get this number? His site (http://drtims.com/grain-free/) states 1.51%, unless I’m reading it incorrectly.
I’m trying to choose between Fromm’s Four Star line (I love that you can swap flavors to give variety and I also love that you can feed less because they have a bit higher protein/fat content than the grain inclusive Four Star!) or transitioning both of my dogs to Dr. Tim’s Kinesis (GF).
I want to make sure that I am feeding my dogs one of the best foods! I know that either of these choices would be okay for Quinn, but I am really worried about hip dysplasia in a second dog. Any advice or feedback would be really appreciated. 🙂

[InkedMarie]

Good morning all and thanks to those who responded. I apologize for taking so long in coming back to my own thread!
A few questions. Some of you have seen that we have another sheltie coming in the next couple of weeks. She’s in foster care but I don’t have a whole lot of info on her. She is 9 or 10, apparently healthy except for her teeth. She is in desperate need for a dental and after looking at her mouth, she has some extractions coming. She will have the dental and get spayed this week or next, then coming home with me. So, here is the rundown on the dogs:

Boone-almost 7, allergy and/or yeast issues. He will stay on Darwins in the morn and Brothers in the
afternoon.
Ginger-2.5yrs old, currently eating THK in the morn (Darwins a couple times a week) and Dr. Tim’s grain
inclusive (Pursuit) in the afternoon. She has no issues outside of frequent pooping on anything except
the same regimen as Boone but due to cost, can’t continue with that so that is why we’re trying the
Pursuit

Gemma-new gal coming. She currently eats Purina ONE chicken & rice senior. Even with her icky mouth
that must hurt, she eats dry food. I have THK Zeal here and Wellness Core’s salmon topper. Thinking
I should mix either the THK or canned with Ginger’s kibble. If I see any signs of arthritis or anything,
I will put her on Brothers since it’s grainfree.

So, what do you smarter than me DFA friends think I should do for probiotics and enzymes? Should they all get both? Kefir….where do you buy that? Is that something you order? Is it a pill or powder?

[Melissaandcrew]

Mike P-

The thread is still there, its not like it has been removed. In all fairness to Mike S, he DID start this forum for us all to discuss topics other than the food itself. Most of the time, someone asks a question and a simple direct answer can be given. When its more involved than that, its easy enough to respond with “hey-interesting topic to explore, lets take it to the forums” Since we are no longer supposed to be having large OT conversations there anyway, no harm no foul. I am sure he will reopen it eventually.

[Toxed2loss]

Hey Labman,
You didn’t say what you were feeding, in your post above. Not sure if you’ve posted that somewhere else on the site, but it is important. Your dog’s food is the foundation of her health.

Back before I knew better, I fed really bad dog food to my beloved pointer cross, Morgan. Ol’ Roy, I’m ashamed to say. I was just flat out ignorant!! When she was 12 she slept most of the time, she barely moved, just like yours. Well, my husband decided he needed a new bird dog, so he went out and bought a highly trained purebred, 3 yr old field registered pointer. The owner had health issues and he made it a condition of the sale to feed “high quality” food. Well, he knew more than us, but not as much as he should of, too. He was feeding Iams lamb & rice. A whole lot better than Ol’ Roy!!! So we put both dogs on the better food. Dang!!!! But after a few weeks that dog got up one day and followed my husband 1/4 mile out to the back fence. He turned around and saw her there, wagging her tail and was so worried he carried her (60 lbs) in his arms all the way back to the house. She was lively and healthier for 2-3 more years.

Fast forward to what I know now, feeding your dog THE BEST nutrition makes all the difference! (That’s not Iams!) its balanced raw. If you don’t want to, or can’t, feed raw, then a 5 star meat based kibble. Brother’s Complete is my best pick of kibbles. Hound Dog Mom has posted a lot of recipes and information on raw feeding under that thread, and I’d encourage you to check it out if raw is the way you’d like to go. Shawna is the best resource for nutritional information. Mike P & JohnandChristo rock for feeding kibble plus toppers! Dogs should be living 20-30 years. They were 80 years ago. But that was when they weren’t being feed corn & wheat based dog food. They also weren’t routinely exposed to toxins from flea & tick pesticides, worm pesticides, heavy metals poisoning in vaccines and being over vaccinated… Reducing the environmental toxins will improve your pups health, too! Supplements are just supplements. They can help a little, but they work best synergistically with optimal nutrition.

[pugmomsandy]

weimlove,

Also if you go to the Asian or Mexican supermarket, they have a good selection of organ meats and chicken feet, hooves, heads, even uterus (which I have not tried) which would be muscle meat. I bought some whole wild caught sardines there recently and give those a couple times a week as one of their meals. My local BARF group purchases from texastripe which makes a delivery run once a month to the area and I get tripe and tripe blend from them for $2/lb. I hope you can find a group to join as mine has been a real great place for resources as well as DFA of course! I found mine at yahoo. Try searching for “yahoo barf group”. You may already know. I’m a little technically challenged and just now found the barf group although I’ve been feeding raw for at least 2 years!

[Anonymous]

Thanks Toxed and I’m glad to hear you aren’t deliberately snarky. 🙂 Most women are, including my own mother, so I tend to have a bloody tongue and avoid those people since it just seems like the bigger thing to do. I would leave my vet in a heartbeat if I knew there was a better one nearby, but where I live, the options are limited and like I said, she’s been very good at getting to the root of problems for the most part, on the first try. I hate that her exam rooms are dirty and her staff is less than friendly, but until another option presents itself, I tolerate it and only go when absolutely necessary.
Honeybeesmom, Thanks for the pumpkin tip. I’ve seen/heard that repeatedly, but I didn’t have any at the time and the weather was bad, but I’m going to put it on my list the next time I go to the grocery store so I’ll have some on hand. Not sure if Abby’s problem is something pumpkin will fix, but it can’t hurt to try. I only gave Abby one pill yesterday before her first meal of the day and so far she hasn’t had a problem. Thank goodness since at bedtime she snuck out of her enclosure and stood at my bedroom door begging with those big brown eyes to come in. I crumbled and went and got her sheet so she could sleep in the room with me and she was soooo happy. Luckily, I didn’t wake up to her getting sick and she’s outside now eating. Let the anxiety begin (no pills today). I tried to call the vet about 15 minutes ago to talk to her about possible causes, safer home relief, digestive enzymes, etc., etc., but she’d already left for the day so I guess I’m on my own. I left the spotbot out and am preparing for the worst, just in case.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Unfortunately when it comes to shipping frozen raw food, that’s about as cheap as it’s going to get (wish places that sold raw offered free ground shipping!). For where I’m located, it costs me about $28 to have 50 lbs. of food shipped from Hare Today – VERY reasonable in comparison to many other places I’ve checked out (I’ve priced some and had them quote me over $200 to ship 50 lbs.). They key is finding a place to order from that’s close enough where you don’t have to pay for overnight or 2 day shipping – I’m in New York and Hare Today is in Pennsylvania so I can just get ground shipping.

Also, something else I noticed I forgot to mention before that I figure I probably should mention if you’re going to be ordering green tripe (you may already know this, but just in case) – green tripe has a naturally balanced calcium to phosphorus ratio of 1:1 (unlike all other muscle meats and organ meats that are high in phosphorus but have no calcium) so when you feed green tripe you don’t need to add any supplemental calcium, it can be a meal on it’s own.

[Shawna]

Hi Research Hound ~~ That is HORRIBLE… I feel for the both of you.. I foster and I’ve had two dogs that would regurgitate from stress. Good stress (like when I came home) as well as bad stress. I TOTALLY get the annoyance and yuckiness of having to continuously clean up vomit… 🙁

Throwing up bile is often caused by an empty stomach. Recommendations are to feed more frequent smaller meals and to give a treat before bed and upon rising.

Sounds like your pup is both regurgitating and vomitting. This is odd as both are caused by different reasons. Dr. Becker just released an informative article on regurgitation and vomit. Dogs may regurgitate due to a hypothyroid as an example. She states that vomiting is diet related and can even be an early symptom of inflammatory bowel disease. I’d read her article and see if anything maybe makes some sense. http://healthypets.mercola.com/sites/healthypets/archive/2012/12/17/vomiting-vs-regurgitating.aspx

I’ve read that once on Pepcid etc longer term it may be required for life. Did your vet suggest a temporary trial or was this intended for long term management?

If you think it might be diet — is there ANY food that was consistant between all the foods you tried. Pea as an example is in almost all kibbles (if not all?). My friends dog can’t tolerate green beans for more than a few days without developing tummy issues.

You can drive yourself crazy (if you haven’t already 🙂 trying to figure this out. My only concern though, if it is diet that is causing this then the pepcid is symply masking the symptoms while the damage from the original problem continues on to develop into another symptom. Maybe one that is worse than the initial vomiting? Also, I question how much of the protein eaten is actually being digested because of the blocking of acid? Because of this I personally would give a product like SeaCure. It is a protein that is already broken down so doesn’t require acid to digest it. Long term use can have problems of its own but no more so than protein malnutrition I would think. SeaCure is also healing to the digestive tract.

Wish I could be more help but there’s just too many considerations 🙁 Keep asking questions and talking about it.. Sometimes inspiration can come from the most unlikely places. BEST OF LUCK!!!

[Anonymous]

Shawna,
Thank you for jumping in! Since you seem to be a regular and have some experience on dog ailments? 🙂 here on DFA, here’s how we got to the pepcid ac issue. My lab began vomitting out of the blue about two weeks ago. She hadn’t eaten in probably 12 hours or so at the time, so it was just bile and stomach fluid (on my hardwood floor). She then vomitted more bile liquid again a little while later on my white carpet, off her designated sheet. As I recall, she was fine after that, until the next day, when she just suddenly threw up in my bedroom, right off the designated sheet. Again, just bile stuff as she hadn’t eaten since the previous evening/day. She was fine for the next day or so and then again threw up again in the house, on the white carpet, off the sheet. This lovely ordeal continued as I changed food, went to petburger (hamburger with organs added) and rice, added yogurt, apples, etc. etc. to canned food, trying to get her straightend out. Sometimes she threw up whole food within an hour or two after eating, sometimes it was 12 hours later and partially digested food or sometimes completely undigested food. Sometimes with heaving, sometimes not. She was just all over the board. I called the vet’s office the day before Christmas to see what they thought might be the cause, as she is on top of the line food and none of my other 3 dogs were having any issues and this came out of the blue with no other symptoms at all (she was happy, playful, no stomach tenderness, no temp., drinking normal, etc.). After nearly two weeks of this cycle, I finally gave up on trying to figure out the issue and just took her to the vet who prescribed the pepcid and since taking it on Monday, she hasn’t had a single episode. One can only clean vomit up so many times before desperation kicks in. If that makes me a horrible awful pet owner, then so be it, but without any rhyme or reason to these episodes, I just wanted the madness to stop. It wasn’t like I just booted her outside and told her to go eat her ol’ roy and get over it. I finally barricaded her in the kitchen where she’d be on the vinyl flooring for many hours a day and was strict with her diet as I researched online and tried different things. Having never had a dog suddenly develop this problem, I was at a loss. In case this resumes, what do you recommend, aside from the mercola enzymes, toxed already mentioned? Thank you in advance for any help or advice you might have in case this issue resumes.

[Shawna]

Hi Bill 🙂

1. The reason plant based proteins are combined, as you know, is that some are deficient in one essential amino acid or another. By combining you can get representation of all essentials. My problem with this is that if not done well it can still cause an excess of others making the entire protein content less bioavailable. Bioavailability is the ability of the body to use the amino acids from the proteins we eat. Egg has 100% bioavailability — ALL the amino acids in an egg are used leaving none to become blood urea nitrogen for the kidneys to have to filter. When we combine foods we’re bound to have an excess of some and a proper representation of others. The body is then going to have an excess of some that it can’t use and these become blood urea nitrogen. This isn’t a bad thing unless the eater has kidney disease.

All animal based proteins already have all essential amino acids so combining is not really as necessary. However some have more of one and less of another — turkey, as an example, is a good source of tryptophan. Adding animal based protein to any kibble is a good idea and mixing up the proteins makes sense (different amino acids, different fat representations etc). You can not over feed protein to a healthy dog. What they can not use they will safely eliminate causing no harm.

It’s best to feed eggs raw as cooking them can denature the protein in the whites and destroy the omega 3 in the yolk. If feeding whites only you must cook them as the avidin in the white binds to the B vitamin biotin and can cause a deficiency. The yolk is high in biotin so when feeding together avidin is now believed to not be an issue.

2. I don’t think that carbs reduce the benefit of protein (with an exception) but rather they take the place of the much more needed protein. It is well known, and mentioned in the teaching books like Waltham, that dogs have NO nutritional need for carbs. Adding carbs displaces the macronutrients they do need — fat and protein. Dogs can derive glucose from protein and fat. Carbs (starch) is added to kibble more because kibble can not be made without starch than a dietary need. I do think that in our modern world the antioxidants, vitamins etc in high quality carbs (veggies and fruit) can be of great benefit when used in small amounts though.

The exception I mentioned above — there is a theory that carbs and proteins digest at different rates, and more importantly, at different acid/base levels. Lou and Marilyn Diamond had a very interesting book out in the 80’s called “Fit for Life”. From memory, the theory is that carbs (starch) digest in an alkaline environment and protein in acid. This is true but I don’t know if one impedes the other. Example — if a high starch diet prevents the stomach from producing enough HCL to activate the pepsin protein in the stomach that digests the protein.. If this is true than excess, or any, starch can make protein digestion more difficult. Carbs could be eaten but not at the same meal as protein and visa versa. Fruit had to be eaten alone and non-starchy carbs (aka certain veggies) could be eaten with protein or starchy meals. I tried this and I do think it improved digestion considerably but it was difficult to maintain and after about 8 months I gave it up never to retry.

3. I’m sure there’s a way to easily figure out the percent but math is not my strong suit so I’ll leave that to someone with stronger math skills :). I will say however that I don’t think you need to worry about it. Those of us that feed raw, myself and Toxed included, feed protein amounts in excess of 50%. What you do want to be congniscent of is not to add more than 20% of ANY food that is not balanced to an already balanced diet. Doing so can throw off the calcium to phosphorus ratio and that could be bad..

I am HORRIBLY sorry if this post makes little to no sense…?? I’m watching my 1 and 2 year old grand kids and they make concentration and focus near impossible.

Thank you Toxed for your vote of confidence!!!!! 🙂 Love you girl!!

[Toxed2loss]

Tapioca is one of the alternative starches being used in higher end kibbles. Its gluten free, non-GMO, and when properly processed, non-toxic. In order to make, and bind kibble you must use a certain amount of starch. Tapioca is a good choice in that it is nontoxic, gluten & lectin free.

There is a lot of misinformation being disseminated about tapioca, so lets review the facts and set the record straight. There are no poisonings from properly processed tapioca flour. In fact, most poisonings occur in famine stricken areas where the starving individuals try to take short cuts in processing the raw cassava or manioc root. This is well documented. Tapioca has been safely consumed for thousands of years and is the main staple starch in African, Indonesian and South American diets. “500 million people rely on cassava as their main source of calories, among them subsistence farmers in Sub-Saharan Africa…”Richard Sayre, a professor of plant biology at Ohio State University
—-

“The Culprit in Cassava Toxicity: Cyanogens or Low Protein?
by G. Padmaja

The starchy roots of cassava (Manihot esculenta Crantz) are already a staple for about 500 million people of tropical Africa, Asia, and Latin America, but countless others might also benefit from this food if it were not for the sensationalism that sometimes surrounds the crop’s potential toxicity.
The cassava plant carries two cyanogenic glucosides, linamarin and lotaustralin, in its edible roots and leaves. The amounts of these potentially toxic compounds vary considerably, according to cultivar and growing conditions. “Sweet” varieties usually have such small amounts as to be innocuous, whereas “bitter” varieties have sufficiently high levels to require domestic processing to remove most of the toxins.

In situations where famine or extreme poverty may force a population to eat poorly processed cassava in a diet that is also deficient in nutrients such as protein, the plant’s cyanogenic glucosides can lead to poisoning. A classic case was the infantile kwashiorkor epidemic in famine-stricken Biafra in 1968, but there have also been recent examples of spastic paraparesis, or konzo, in drought-stricken regions of Mozambique and Tanzania.

Detoxifying cassava

Farming populations who cultivate cassava have developed many methods of detoxifying cassava. Boiling and drying are sufficient to make low-cyanogen cultivars safe for consumption, but more rigorous procedures such as grating, fermenting, and sun-drying, are necessary to effectively remove cyanogens from cultivars of higher toxicity.

The protein link

Whenever a chronic disease has been linked to cassava consumption, the victims have also been found to suffer from protein deficiency, suggesting a relationship between the two.

Protein is essential for all the body’s vital functions, and for eliminating certain dietary toxins. With the help of the enzyme rhodanese, the human body detoxifies cyanide by forming thiocyanate. When the body is regularly exposed to cassava cyanogens, the increased synthesis of rhodanese makes extra demands on the body’s reserves of amino acids, the building blocks of proteins. To detoxify 1.0 mg hydrocyanic acid (HCN), the body also needs a daily supply of about 1.2 mg of dietary sulfur (S) from S- containing amino acids (SAA). If the demand for rhodanese and SAA is prolonged, as in the regular consumption of cassava, and the diet is inadequate, the synthesis of many proteins vital for bodily functions may be impaired, leading to the development of protein deficiency diseases.

Cassava – low protein source

Cyanogens alone cannot be blamed for toxicity because other cyanogenic crops, such as sorghum and Lathyrus bean, which are widely used as food, cause few toxicity problems. But the protein contents of these two crops (11.0% and 18.7%, respectively) are higher.

Many cassava products contain very low amounts of cyanogens, which can be efficiently eliminated by the body, if the protein intake is adequate. Cassava roots, being bulky and rich in carbohydrates, free dietary proteins from having to meet the body’s energy needs, thus allowing them to be used more efficiently. However, the level of protein in cassava lags far behind the levels found in rice, wheat, and tuber crops (Figure 1). An adult consuming 1 kg of cassava has to ingest 52 g of protein from other sources to obtain the U.S. recommended daily allowance (RDA) of 65 g protein per adult. In contrast, 1 kg of wheat supplies 121 g of protein and rice, 61 to 64 g of protein.

If protein intake is more than adequate for both general metabolic requirements and cyanide elimination, toxic effects are lessened or even eliminated, even if cassava is improperly processed. (Fatal poisoning can result from ingestion of large amounts of unprocessed or poorly processed high-cyanogen cassava.) Hence, the lack of protein in cassava roots is probably responsible for most non-fatal cases of cyanide poisoning associated with cassava.”
http://www.worldbank.org/html/cgiar/newsletter/Oct96/6cassava.html
——-
Notice it was cassava and not tapioca, that caused the poisonings. Notice also that they weren’t in the US, but in impoverished areas, in developing nations, and there was a lack of sufficient dietary protein.
——-

Nutritional profile of cassava
Cassava root is essentially a carbohydrate source.[27] Its composition shows 60–65 percent moisture, 20–31 percent carbohydrate, 1–2 percent crude protein and a comparatively low content of vitamins and minerals. However, the roots are rich in calcium and vitamin C and contain a nutritionally significant quantity of thiamine, riboflavin and nicotinic acid. Cassava starch contains 70 percent amylopectin and 20 percent amylose. Cooked cassava starch has a digestibility of over 75 percent.
Cassava root is a poor source of protein. Despite the very low quantity, the quality of cassava root protein is fairly good in terms of essential amino acids. Methionine, cysteine and cystine are, however, limiting amino acids in cassava root.
http://www.ask.com/wiki/Cassava
——

THE HEALTH BENEFITS OF TAPIOCA
Aug 5, 2011 | By Kristi Wray

Conventionally, tapioca, derived from the cassava plant, is best known as a creamy pudding dessert with little sustenance. However, in some in areas like Africa, Asia and South America, tapioca is known better for its nutritional benefits than as a sweet treat. When eaten raw or incorrectly prepared, the plant releases poisonous properties. Thus, tapioca must be prepared correctly to prevent harm and ensure safe eating.

STARCH EQUALS ENERGY
The cassava plant is a root vegetable and a healthy source of carbohydrates. In many countries, it serves as a main dish because of its high starch content. Even better, it is considered a healthy starch because it is low in cholesterol and unhealthy fats. Tapioca can be included in dietary plans to promote healthy weight gain.

GLUTEN-FREE
People suffering with Celiac disease or other conditions that restrict the use of gluten-based foods can use tapioca as an alternative to recipes that use wheat flour. Tapioca flour, which does not contain any gluten, is a healthier alternative to wheat flour. Both tapioca flour and tapioca starch can be used as a thickening agent in cream-based sauces and gravies.

MINERALS
Calcium, phosphorous, potassium and magnesium can be found in tapioca in varying amounts. If you are preparing a more processed form of the root, like a pudding mix, you will receive a smaller amount of these minerals than if you were to consume tapioca starch or flour. Tapioca is also a good source of iron, and, in particular, dry tapioca pearls contain up to 13 percent of your daily value of iron. B-vitamins, including folic acid, which is extremely vital for pregnant women, are also found in tapioca.

DIETARY FIBER
Over the years, the U.S. Department of Agriculture has placed extreme importance on the consumption of dietary fiber on a daily basis for a healthier lifestyle. The cassava root has a significant amount of dietary fiber in its natural form. According to the USDA, foods high in dietary fiber can help lower cholesterol, decrease the rate of colon cancer, and lower the risk of diabetes and heart disease.” http://www.livestrong.com/article/509033-the-health-benefits-of-tapioca/
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So there you have it. A factual picture of tapioca starch, without the scare tactics.

[oceandog]

I have had him on raw until the vet prescribed a specialty anallergen kibble (not good stuff in my opinion). I have a kibble now because the raw I have been using does not have novel protein sources. They have turkey, chicken, duck and beef. I am going to be honest and since I don’t know anyone here yet I hope that readers will be kind. 🙂

I am a 22+ year vegetarian/vegan and while I cannot eat meat myself, I don’t believe that I should force that on my dogs as I believe they are carnivores. The reason I say this is I don’t believe I could make my own raw. Unless you eat the way I do you cannot imagine how truly difficult it is for me to deal with the raw on a daily basis. I have to slightly warm it or he won’t touch it, the smell is my undoing. Not to mention the mess. So, having said all of that? I don’t think I am up to making my own. If I read your post correctly, those two links above have novel protein in a raw form? If so, do I have to do anything to it or can I just feed it as it comes? I will look for this information on the sites, and I so appreciate your feedback. This has been quite difficult. I thought we had it figured out a couple of times but I think my error was not keeping him on a restricted diet long enough.

It is of course possible it is a habit or environmental. Yesterday though he was chasing his leg in circles to chew on it. So I just don’t know. I have the kangaroo kibble that I will continue on until I can review and possible order from the suggested sites. I have kept kibble on hand for training purposes. Do it seem reasonable to keep the kibble for this purpose if I can find an appropriate raw?

[Toxed2loss]

Hi Sophia,
I checked out the product that HDM recommended and its a very good product. Nice find HDM!

I use a salve make myself with coconut oil, beeswax & essential oils, or a water based iodine salve. I’ve also recently treated ear problems with astaxanthin. It works better than anything else I’ve tried. I get the caps from Dr. Mercola. Make a pin hole in one end & put one (5 lb Pom) or two (50 lb poodle) in each ear. I squeeze the rest in their mouths. Worked in just a few applications, with occasional follow ups as the toxins work their way out of the tissue.

The itching & “allergies” are more likely due to the frontline & vaccine reactions than anything else. Hop over to the “vaccinating” thread and read my posts there, if you haven’t already. Then be sure to read my post on the “Detoxing” thread. If you clean up her diet & environment, and boost her immune system, you can relieve all those symptoms. It will take time. 🙂 But its worth it.

[Toxed2loss]

Hi Weimlove,
I don’t have a huge Heartworm threat up here but, to be on the safe side I did some reading up on it & non toxics approaches. Dr. Wil Falconer, a holistic DVM, wrote a book on natural Heartworm prevention. His website is here: http://vitalanimal.com/immune-path/.

Another sight that might be helpful is this one, it gives 6 homeopathic methods and it encourages the same kind of program that Shawna mentioned. http://www.danebytes.com/heartworm-cures.htm

The bottom line is a healthy animal defends its self against Heartworm, and other parasitic attacks. Meds are insecticides… Poisons. If you use Heartworm “Meds”, you are also making your pet sick. Parasites are stronger than mammals. They’re harder to kill. In order to kill, or poison the parasite the dose of poison has to be pretty high. Keeping your pet optimally healthy, and using non-toxic repellents on your pet for the insect vector (Mosquitos) is a much better foundation. Like Shawna, I strongly believe that garlic can kill the wolbachia. But check out some of the homeopathic site’s cures. 😉

[Shawna]

LOL!!!! Thanks Ann 🙂

I know you weren’t really asking about mange but….. I can’t help myself :).

There is more than one type of mange. Sarcoptic mange is quite contagious and problematic but less common from my understanding. Demodectic mange is more common and also contagious but there’s a but. Most adult dogs, I’ve read, have demodex mites on them. Demodex mites actually live synergistically with their host unless the dogs immune system is out of whack.. In humans demodectic mites live in the crease of our nose and eyelids and in our eyebrows for the most part.

Have you been able to lessen or eliminate the itching? Everybody here is more than willing to help if we can :)..

You are a very good puppy parent!!! If you have read many of my posts you know I can be quite the rambler myself.. 🙂 No need to apologize on my account… 🙂

[Shawna]

Weimlove,

HDM mentions her thoughts about veggies in an earlier post on this thread. Here’s the first couple sentences but there’s more “Concerning vegetables, many don’t feel that they’re necessary. Vegetables aren’t part of a dog’s natural diet and I do agree that as long as everything else I described above is provided that they probably aren’t necessary, but I do strongly feel that when they’re provided in small quantities they can be a beneficial addition to the dog’s diet.”

I agree COMPLETELY with her. Our dogs are subjected to SO MANY MORE toxins than their ancestors and certainly more than wolves. Examples — formaldehyde is off gased from particle board furniture for the life of the piece, gas fumes from gas water heaters and vehicles, the chemical PFOA in tephlon pans and wrappers like those on microwave popcorn bags can actually kill a bird at the right concentration, fluoride in drinking water, vaccinations/heartworm/flea tick etc…

Not to mention, many don’t bother feeding organic. Bones from CAFO cattle can be high in contaminants like fluoride. The meat is higher in saturated fat than grass finished beef. The meat can be tainted due to the GMO corn and soy etc etc etc. Additionally, “prey” is going to include fiber from the small amounts of ingested fur, sodium from the blood of the animal, ALL the organs — brains are a source of omega 3 DHA, heart has taurine, pancreas has enzymes, tripe has more fiber (in the bits of ingested plant material that comes with) and probiotics and enzymes and on and on.. Many “prey model” enthusiasts don’t account for all these missing nutrients.

The extra vitamins, minerals and antioxidants in fruits and veggies just seem like a really good idea when we are subjecting our pets to so many toxins that would not be found in their natural environment (or their ancestor’s that is).

Veggies should be cooked or run through the blender or food processor. Running them thorugh the blender breaks down the cellulose layer without needing heat which can damage the natural enzymes within the food. If you would eat the veggie/fruit raw than you can give it to your dog raw too — cucumbers, peppers, berries, celery, zucchini (sp?), carrots, tomatoes etc. The finer they are blended they more nutrients are released. If you would cook it for yourself, cook it for pup — acorn squash, sweet potato etc. Best way to cook them is to steam them in a steamer (can be purchased for $40.00 or less). Add the water from the steamers drip tray back into the food as some minerals are leached during cooking and you can add them back by adding the water back.

Hope that helps :).

[weimlove]

HDM-
Thankyou so much for making that for me, it helps so much!I went to the local butcher yesterday and found some great prices. He has boneless beef chicken and turkey for .50 cents a pound. He also has chicken necks and backs for .60 cents a pound. He also carries whole chickens, chicken leg quarters, and a variety of organs. He does carry venison, but it’s 6 dollars a pound so thats a bit too much to spend on a regular basis. I think I will be able to get all the meat on the menu from him, but I plan on trying to find other sources of meat as well. I also looked on hare today, and they had alot of great meat too for ok prices. There is also a supplement store in town that I can get the vitamin E and alfalfa kelp mix. I already add salmon oil to his food now, so I can just put that on his raw food as well. Yesterday I was reading about the prey model raw diet, and they kept emphasizing that dogs dont need supplements and veggies if they are being fed the 80:10:10. What are your thoughts on that?

[DogFoodie]

I was cleaning the refrigerator this morning and came across a tetra pack of coconut water. I bought of case of the “plain” variety of VitaCoco once before and didn’t like it. So, I took it to work (where usually they’ll eat / drink anything that’s free) and none of them liked it either. Well, for some reason I picked up a single of coconut water with pineapple thinking maybe it would taste better.

I really wanted to like it because of the great nutritional and it’s reported ability to be a superior hydrator. In fact, I have a good friend who regularly gives her son with Down’s Syndrome coconut water to help with hydration because his little body is inefficient at regulating his internal temperature and he easily becomes overheated if not well hydrated.

So, before I threw away this last package of coconut water, I started wondering if anyone here thought it might be beneficial to give coconut water to their dogs? My Cavalier has to be put under general anesthesia tomorrow for what hopefully will be simply a diagnostic procedure, but may also end up being a surgical procedure (soft palate resection). I got to thinking that sometimes anesthesia can cause a diminished thirst and appetite and that possibly Bell might drink some coconut water afterward.

Here’s a YouTube video I found that speaks plainly as to what I’ve read are some of the reported benefits of coconut water. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QU2JuZ6l35I&list=UUYuRsyw-9u-0kiOZakkHL-Q&index=16.

Any thoughts? : )

Peace, Betsy

[Toxed2loss]

Hi Weimlove,
I do think he’s good for life. But its what you think that matters. 🙂 So here’s an excerpt from a post I made to Shawna, some time ago, talking about adjuvants. Adjuvants are the toxins they add to vaccines to stimulate the immune system into freaking out and attacking the viruses like its life or death, rather than a natural reaction, from a natural encounter with the virus, which in most cases, you wouldn’t even notice your dog was sick. The problem being, the adjuvants are poisons. It’s these poisons that cause the adverse vaccine reactions. I’ve included an example of vaccine induced hives. The more you know about vaccines and how they work, the more comfortably you can make a decision. After all, there’s still a risk, either way. Dogs (some) do die of vaccine reactions. Vaccinated dogs (some) can still get the viruses they were vaccinated for, and some unvaccinated dogs do get the viruses. You have to decide which risk is greater.

“vaccines are a significant and very real vector for impaired health in our pets. Here’s a couple of excerpts… Note the first one is on humans but multiple resources stated that adjuvants for humans are safer than for livestock… These examples are just a peek…

>>>> Is it mere coincidence that rates of autism increased when the Center for Disease Control inserted additions to the recommended vaccination program for infants in 1988? In the 1980s, autism rates were estimated at only six in 10,000 children. Today one in 150 children is autistic, though in some areas autism affects closer to one in 50 children. The U.S. Food and Drug Administration has acknowledged that thimerosal can be a neurotoxin (knowing very well that mercury is a neurotoxin), and in 2004 stated that thimerosal-containing vaccines were associated with autism.
– Timeless Secrets of Health & Rejuvenation: Unleash The Natural Healing Power That Lies Dormant Within You by Andreas Moritz

Learn more: http://www.naturalnews.com/027178_autism_vaccines.html#ixzz212cJmlYT”

Adjuvants! Toxic adjuvants are a major contributor to neurodegenerative diseases. Autism IS a neurodegenerative disease!!! Vaccines are one cause of autism… There are numerous other neurotoxins that cause autism as well. But this is a dog related site so firstI’ll give you the facts about adjuvants, then I’ll bring it back to vaccines in pets…

“A Glimpse into the Scary World of Vaccine Adjuvants
By Edda West – Published in VRAN Newsletter – Winter 2005

http://www.vran.org
Adjuvants are formulated compounds, which when combined with vaccine antigens intensify the body’s immune response. They are used to elicit an early, high and long-lasting immune response. “The chemical nature of adjuvants, their mode of action and their reactions (side effect) are highly variable in terms of how they affect the immune system and how serious their adverse effects are due to the resultant hyperactivation of the immune system. While adjuvants enable the use of less *antigen to achieve the desired immune response and reduce vaccine production costs, with few exceptions, adjuvants are foreign to the body and cause adverse reactions”, writes Australian scientist Viera Scheibner Ph.D, (1)

The most common adjuvant for human use is an aluminum salt called alum derived from aluminum hydroxide, or aluminum phosphate. A quick read of the scientific literature reveals that the neurotoxic effects of aluminum were recognized 100 years ago. Aluminum is a neurotoxicant and has been linked to Alzheimer’s disease and other neurological disorders. Prior to 1980, kidney patients undergoing long term dialysis treatments often suffered dialysis encephalopathy syndrome, the result of acute intoxication by the use of an aluminium-containing dialysate. This is now avoided using modern techniques of water purification. In preterm infants, prolonged intravenous feeding with solutions containing aluminum is associated with impaired neurologic development. Scientists speculate that aluminum neurotoxicity may be related to cell damage via free radical production, impairment of glucose metabolism, and effects on nerve signal transduction. (2) Vaccines which contain both aluminum adjuvants and mercury based preservative, greatly magnify the neurotoxic effects. (3)…” http://www.vaclib.org/basic/adjuvants.htm

Immunology and Cell Biology (2004) 82, 488–496 Special Feature Vaccine adjuvants: Current state and future trends NIKOLAI PETROVSKY1 and JULIO CÉSAR AGUILAR2 1 Autoimmunity Research Unit, ANU Medical School, Australian National University, Canberra, ACT 2061, Australia and Vaccines Division, Center for Genetic Engineering and Biotechnology, Ave. 31 e 158 y 190, Cubanacán, Apdo 6162, Ciudad, Habana, Cuba 2 Summary

“… In addition, alum has the potential to cause severe local and systemic side-effects including sterile abscesses, eosinophilia and myofascitis, although fortunately most of the more serious side-effects are relatively rare. There is also community concern regarding the possible role of aluminium in neurodegenerative diseases such as Alzheimer’s disease. ..

…Adverse reactions to adjuvants can be classified as local or systemic. Important local reactions include pain, local inflammation, swelling, injection site necrosis, lymphadenopathy, granulomas, ulcers and the gen- eration of sterile abscesses. Systemic reactions include nausea, fever, adjuvant arthritis, uveitis, eosinophilia, allergy, anaphylaxis, organ specific toxicity and immunotoxicity (i.e. the liberation of cytokines, immunosuppression or auto- immune diseases).22,23 Unfortunately, potent adjuvant action is often correlated with increased toxicity, as exemplified by the case of FCA which although potent is too toxic for human use…

…Adjuvant regulatory requirements Regulations for the human use of adjuvants are far more rigorous than those applied to veterinary vaccines..

…Quil A has been used successfully for veterinary applications. 44 It is a natural product composed of more than 23 different saponins and is generally considered too toxic for human use…”

Quil A is just one example of the more toxic adjuvants used. I choose this quote because it comes out and states it directly, leaving no room for misconstruing.
—–
And I came across this. Maybe when people post about their pets dermitis and paw licking (etc.) the first question should be about their vaccination schedule?

“When a perfectly healthy individual is given viruses that cause illness, the animal is going to manifest illness-related symptoms. This healthy individual is asked to maintain a low-level stimulation of a state of distemper, a low level state of parvo, a low level state of rabies, and so on. As long as you are in a low level state of illness you are not in a high level state of health. Therefore, the vaccines provide protection by keeping the body in a diseased state of health. Often the animal will not manifest the illness it is vaccinated for, at least not in its acute form, but it will manifest in other conditions. Usually these conditions are inherited weaknesses.
Chronic symptoms look very much like the acute illnesses but they are often not life-threatening unless allowed to continue for years and years.

For distemper we often see:

Watery fluid dripping from the nose
Conjunctivitis, eye discharge, entropion
Chronic gastritis, hepatitis, pancreatitis, appetite disorders
Recurrent diarrhea
Sensitivity to food with resultant diarrhea
Epilepsy, rear leg paralysis, spondylitis
Lip fold dermatitis
Excessive licking of feet, eruptions between the toes, allergies
Kennel cough, chronic bronchitis
Chronic skin eruptions, especially lower half of body
Failure to thrive, abnormally thin

For rabies we often see:

Restless nature, suspicion of others, aggression to animals and people
Changes in behavior: aloofness, unaffectionate, desire to roam, OR clingy, separation anxiety, ‘velcro dog’
Restraining can lead to violent behavior and self-injury
Self-mutilation, tail chewing
Voice changes, hoarseness, excessive barking
Chronic poor appetite, very finicky
Paralysis of throat or tongue, sloppy eaters, drooling
Dry eye, loss of sight, cataract
Eating wood, stones, earth, stool
Destructive behavior, shredding bedding
Seizures, epilepsy, twitching
Increased sexual desire, sexual aggression
Irregular pulse, heart failure
Reverse sneezing

Some of the illnesses you are familiar with include any auto-immune disease such as lupus, red cell aplasia, auto-immune hemolytic anemia cardiomyopathies; neoplasias such as fibrosarcomas, mast cell tumors, thyroid tumors, etc.; inflammatory bowel disease, eczematous ears, any dermatological condition, warts, lipomas, poor hair coats, stomatitis, periodontal disease, thyroid disease, and the list goes on and on.

Now you could be wondering why I am so bold to ‘blame’ all these and more on vaccines. The reason is simple: I have an empirical, call it experimental lab where I visit daily and watch the animals, year after year. In the short years of my career I have seen the incredible increase in all these illnesses, some we never even learned in vet school. In fact, my vet school is now primarily an oncology treatment center! This was not the case a short 20 years ago. I have also spoken with many vets who have practiced longer than I and their response is the same. They did not see the level of chronic illness, nor the resistant and concretized type of illnesses that we see today. ” by: Dee Blanco who is a holistic veterinarian practicing in Santa Fe, New Mexico.

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« Vaccinations | Main | Adverse Reactions »

Changing Vaccine Procotols – by W Jean Dodds, DVM

The challenge to produce effective and safe vaccines for the prevalent infectious diseases of humans and animals has become increasingly difficult. In veterinary medicine, evidence implicating vaccines in triggering immune-mediated and other chronic disorders (vaccinosis) is compelling. While some of these problems have been traced to contaminated or poorly attenuated batches of vaccine that revert to virulence, others apparently reflect the host’s genetic predisposition to react adversely upon receiving the single (monovalent) or multiple antigen “combo” (polyvalent) products given routinely to animals. Animals of certain susceptible breeds or families appear to be at increased risk for severe and lingering adverse reactions to vaccines.

The onset of adverse reactions to conventional vaccinations (or other inciting drugs, chemicals, or infectious agents) can be an immediate hypersensitivity or anaphylactic reaction, or can occur acutely (24-48 hours afterwards), or later on (10-45 days) in a delayed type immune response often caused by immune-complex formation. Typical signs of adverse immune reactions include fever, stiffness, sore joints and abdominal tenderness, susceptibility to infections, central and peripheral nervous system disorders or inflammation, collapse with autoagglutinated red blood cells and jaundice, or generalized pinpoint hemorrhages or bruises. Liver enzymes may be markedly elevated, and liver or kidney failure may accompany bone marrow suppression. Furthermore, recent vaccination of genetically susceptible breeds has been associated with transient seizures in puppies and adult dogs, as well as a variety of autoimmune diseases including those affecting the blood, endocrine organs, joints, skin and mucosa, central nervous system, eyes, muscles, liver, kidneys, and bowel. It is postulated that an underlying genetic predisposition to these conditions places other littermates and close relatives at increased risk. Vaccination of pet and research dogs with polyvalent vaccines containing rabies virus or rabies vaccine alone was recently shown to induce production of antithyroglobulin autoantibodies, a provocative and important finding with implications for the subsequent development of hypothyroidism (Scott-Moncrieff et al, 2002).

Vaccination also can overwhelm the immunocompromised or even healthy host that is repeatedly challenged with other environmental stimuli and is genetically predisposed to react adversely upon viral exposure. The recently weaned young puppy or kitten entering a new environment is at greater risk here, as its relatively immature immune system can be temporarily or more permanently harmed. Consequences in later life may be the increased susceptibility to chronic debilitating diseases.

As combination vaccines contain antigens other than those of the clinically important infectious disease agents, some may be unnecessary; and their use may increase the risk of adverse reactions. With the exception of a recently introduced mutivalent Leptospira spp. vaccine, the other leptospirosis vaccines afford little protection against the clinically important fields strains of leptospirosis, and the antibodies they elicit typically last only a few months. Other vaccines, such as for Lyme disease, may not be needed, because the disease is limited to certain geographical areas. Annual revaccination for rabies is required by some states even though there are USDA licensed rabies vaccine with a 3-year duration. Thus, the overall risk-benefit ratio of using certain vaccines or multiple antigen vaccines given simultaneously and repeatedly should be reexamined. It must be recognized, however, that we have the luxury of asking such questions today only because the risk of disease has been effectively reduced by the widespread use of vaccination programs.

Given this troublesome situation, what are the experts saying about these issues? In 1995, a landmark review commentary focused the attention of the veterinary profession on the advisability of current vaccine practices. Are we overvaccinating companion animals, and if so, what is the appropriate periodicity of booster vaccines ? Discussion of this provocative topic has generally lead to other questions about the duration of immunity conferred by the currently licensed vaccine components.

In response to questions posed in the first part of this article, veterinary vaccinologists have recommended new protocols for dogs and cats. These include: 1) giving the puppy or kitten vaccine series followed by a booster at one year of age; 2) administering further boosters in a combination vaccine every three years or as split components alternating every other year until; 3) the pet reaches geriatric age, at which time booster vaccination is likely to be unnecessary and may be unadvisable for those with aging or immunologic disorders. In the intervening years between booster vaccinations, and in the case of geriatric pets, circulating humoral immunity can be evaluated by measuring serum vaccine antibody titers as an indication of the presence of immune memory. Titers do not distinguish between immunity generated by vaccination and/or exposure to the disease, although the magnitude of immunity produced just by vaccination is usually lower (see Tables).

Except where vaccination is required by law, all animals, but especially those dogs or close relatives that previously experienced an adverse reaction to vaccination can have serum antibody titers measured annually instead of revaccination. If adequate titers are found, the animal should not need revaccination until some future date. Rechecking antibody titers can be performed annually, thereafter, or can be offered as an alternative to pet owners who prefer not to follow the conventional practice of annual boosters. Reliable serologic vaccine titering is available from several university and commercial laboratories and the cost is reasonable (Twark and Dodds, 2000; Lappin et al, 2002; Paul et al, 2003; Moore and Glickman, 2004).
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* Veterinary Medicine, February, 2002.
References
Dodds WJ. More bumps on the vaccine road. Adv Vet Med 41:715-732, 1999.
Dodds WJ. Vaccination protocols for dogs predisposed to vaccine reactions. J Am An Hosp Assoc 38: 1-4, 2001.
Hogenesch H, Azcona-Olivera J, Scott-Moncreiff C, et al. Vaccine-induced autoimmunity in the dog. Adv Vet Med 41: 733-744, 1999.
Hustead DR, Carpenter T, Sawyer DC, et al. Vaccination issues of concern to practitioners. J Am Vet Med Assoc 214: 1000-1002, 1999.
Kyle AHM, Squires RA, Davies PR. Serologic status and response to vaccination against canine distemper (CDV) and canine parvovirus (CPV) of dogs vaccinated at different intervals. J Sm An Pract, June 2002.
Lappin MR, Andrews J, Simpson D, et al. Use of serologic tests to predict resistance to feline herpesvirus 1, feline calicivirus, and feline parvovirus infection in cats. J Am Vet Med Assoc 220: 38-42, 2002.
McGaw DL, Thompson M, Tate, D, et al. Serum distemper virus and parvovirus antibody titers among dogs brought to a veterinary hospital for revaccination. J Am Vet Med Assoc 213: 72-75, 1998.
Moore GE, Glickman LT. A perspective on vaccine guidelines and titer tests for dogs. J Am Vet Med Assoc 224: 200-203. 2004.
Mouzin DE, Lorenzen M J, Haworth, et al. Duration of serologic response to five viral antigens in dogs. J Am Vet Med Assoc 224: 55-60, 2004.
Mouzin DE, Lorenzen M J, Haworth, et al. Duration of serologic response to three viral antigens in cats. J Am Vet Med Assoc 224: 61-66, 2004.
Paul MA. Credibility in the face of controversy. Am An Hosp Assoc Trends Magazine XIV(2):19-21, 1998.
Paul MA (chair) et al. Report of the AAHA Canine Vaccine Task Force: 2003 canine vaccine guidelines, recommendations, and supporting literature. AAHA, April 2003, 28 pp.
Schultz RD. Current and future canine and feline vaccination programs. Vet Med 93:233-254, 1998.
Schultz RD, Ford RB, Olsen J, Scott F. Titer testing and vaccination: a new look at traditional practices. Vet Med, 97: 1-13, 2002 (insert).
Scott FW, Geissinger CM. Long-term immunity in cats vaccinated with an inactivated trivalent vaccine. Am J Vet Res 60: 652-658, 1999.
Scott-Moncrieff JC, Azcona-Olivera J, Glickman NW, et al. Evaluation of antithyroglobulin antibodies after routine vaccination in pet and research dogs. J Am Vet Med Assoc 221: 515-521, 2002.
Smith CA. Are we vaccinating too much? J Am Vet Med Assoc 207:421-425, 1995.
Tizard I, Ni Y. Use of serologic testing to assess immune status of companion animals. J Am Vet Med Assoc 213: 54-60, 1998.
Twark L, Dodds WJ. Clinical application of serum parvovirus and distemper virus antibody titers for determining revaccination strategies in healthy dogs. J Am Vet Med Assoc 217:1021-1024, 2000.
Posted on September 18, 2006 1:16 AM | Permalink
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Vaccine adjuvants: Current state and future trends NIKOLAI PETROVSKY1 and JULIO CÉSAR AGUILAR2 1 Autoimmunity Research Unit, ANU Medical School, Australian National University, Canberra, ACT 2061, Australia and Vaccines Division, Center for Genetic Engineering and Biotechnology, Ave. 31 e/158 y 190, Cubanacán, Apdo 6162, Ciudad, Habana, Cuba 2

Summary
The problem with pure recombinant or synthetic antigens used in modern day vaccines is that they are generally far less immunogenic than older style live or killed whole organism vaccines. This has created a major need for improved and more powerful adjuvants for use in these vaccines. With few exceptions, alum remains the sole adjuvant approved for human use in the majority of countries worldwide. Although alum is able to induce a good antibody (Th2) response, it has little capacity to stimulate cellular (Th1) immune responses which are so important for protection against many pathogens. In addition, alum has the potential to cause severe local and systemic side-effects including sterile abscesses, eosinophilia and myofascitis, although fortunately most of the more serious side-effects are relatively rare. There is also community concern regarding the possible role of aluminium in neurodegenerative diseases such as Alzheimer’s disease. Consequently, there is a major unmet need for safer and more effective adjuvants suitable for human use. In particular, there is demand for safe and non-toxic adjuvants able to stimulate cellular (Th1) immunity. Other needs in light of new vaccine technologies are adjuvants suitable for use with mucosally-delivered vaccines, DNA vaccines, cancer and autoimmunity vaccines. Each of these areas are highly specialized with their own unique needs in respect of suitable adjuvant technology. This paper reviews the state of the art in the adjuvant field, explores future directions of adjuvant development and finally examines some of the impediments and barriers to development and registration of new human adjuvants.
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Vaccination Reactions: How to Handle an Anaphylactic Reaction due to a Vaccine
Posted on: March 7, 2011
Vaccine reactions! They are such a scary event. In fact, vaccination induced reactions creates anxiety not only for the pet owner, but the patient and veterinarian too.

This page displays one example of a dog with a vaccine reaction to a rabies vaccine, manufactured by a reputable and professional veterinary pharmaceutical company and administered subcutaneously as recommended. Twelve months prior to the rabies vaccine given in this example, the dog (a three-year-old Dachshund) was vaccinated with a multivalent vaccine containing Distemper, Hepatitis, Parainfluenza, Corona and Parvo virus antigens. A mild reaction occurred to that vaccine administration. It is unknown to which fraction of that vaccine the dog reacted.

Prior to this incident, the owners were fully informed about potential vaccine reactions and what to do if another one occurred. They requested a rabies vaccine only (they decided against giving further multivalent vaccinations) in order to conform to local ordinances and to ensure against possible infection from rabies due to the abundant wildlife present in the dog’s environment. The vaccine was administered after a discussion of potential good and undesirable effects of a vaccine.

Two hours after the Rabies vaccine was administered the dog was readmitted for itching and head-shaking, and the presence of “hives” on the dog’s face and head. These eruptions on the skin, called a urticarial reaction, are rounded swollen raised areas of skin tissue that have responded locally to the administration of a substance to which the dog is allergic.

Hives are caused when the body releases histamine from a cell called a mast cell. The histamine then causes leaking of fluid into the surrounding body tissues from the small blood vessels and stimulates the nearby nerve endings producing the itching sensation. The dog was breathing normally but was uncomfortable. Fortunately the vast majority of vaccine reactions in the dog are similar to this case where the targeted tissue is the skin.

Though rare, the tracheal, laryngeal and bronchial tissues can swell, causing a constricted, spastic airway and breathing difficulties — all of which can have life-threatening consequences.
http://m.petmd.com/dog/care/evr_dg_vaccination_reactions
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Rabies Challenge Fund

Why Challenge Current Rabies Vaccine Policy?

Rabies vaccination is required by law in nearly all areas. Even though protection from rabies is documented to last at least three years, current law in some states or areas still requires that boosters be given annually or biannually rather than the standard policy of every three years. However, vaccination against rabies virus is occasionally associated with debilitating adverse effects. According to the CDC domestic animals account for less than 10% of the reported rabies cases, with cats, cattle, and dogs most often reported rabid. Scientific data indicate that vaccinating dogs against rabies every three years, as most states require, is unnecessary.
Studies have shown the duration of protective immunity as measured by serum antibody titers against rabies virus to persist for seven years post-vaccination. By validating the ‘true’ life of rabies virus immunity and moving to five and hopefully seven years, we will decrease the risk of adverse reactions in our animals and minimize their repeated exposure to foreign substances. Killed vaccines like those for rabies virus can trigger both immediate and delayed adverse vaccine reactions (termed “vaccinosis”). While there may be immediate hypersensitivity reactions, other acute events tend to occur 24-72 hours afterwards, or up to 45 days later in the case of delayed reactions.
Reactions that have been documented include:
Behavior changes such as aggression and separation anxiety
Obsessive behavior,self-mutilation, tail chewing
Pica – eating wood, stones, earth, stool
Destructive behavior, shredding bedding
Seizures, epilepsy
Fibrosarcomas at injection site
Autoimmune diseases such as those affecting bone marrow and blood cells, joints, eyes, skin, kidney, liver, bowel and central nervous system
Muscular weakness and or atrophy
Chronic digestive problems

Rabies Exemptions and Waivers
Rabies Vaccination is required by law. In some instances, it is possible to secure a written waiver for exemption from rabies booster vaccination. A letter justifying the medical reason for such exemption needs to be obtained from your primary care veterinarian. When seeking a waiver, a rabies serum antibody titer should be performed. Adequate serum rabies titers are at least 1:5 by the RFFIT method. Waiver requests are not generally accepted based on serum antibody titers alone, but may be granted on a case-by-case basis with justification. Waivers are not granted as a matter of personal preference, and localities often do not permit waivers and exemptions regardless of the justification.”

I have more if you need it… (I tend to overwhelm people with data. GFETE (Grinning From Ear To Ear)

[Hound Dog Mom]

Weimlove –

Oftentimes when I fed my dogs more dense, weight-bearing bones from large ruminants (cows, buffalo, sheep, etc.) they threw up shards about 8-12 hours after chewing the bone. For this reason I now stick with raw meaty bones. There are two types of bones 1) Recreational bones – these are going to be your marrow bones, knuckle bones, etc. and will be from large animals like cows, buffalo and sheep. These bones are not completely consumable (meaning your dog shouldn’t be able to eat the entire bone) and don’t provide a whole lot of nutrition, they are more just for fun chewing pleasure. 2) Raw Meaty Bones (you’ll often see these referred to as “RMBs). RMBs are completely consumable (meaning your dog should be be able to eat the entire thing) and provide a lot of nutrition. RMBs typically include poultry bones (chicken necks, chicken backs, chicken feet, turkey necks, duck necks, etc.) but for some larger dogs that have more powerful jaws, non-weight bearing bones of large ruminants (such as pork or beef or lamb necks or rib bones) can be considered RMBs as well. I no longer give my dogs recreational bones because of the issue with puking up the shards (I believe that because the bones are so dense they aren’t highly digestible, which results in the puking) and because I’ve read several reports of dogs actually breaking teeth on them or wearing down their teeth over time. There’s also a chance that your dog may have puked after the bone due to high fat content. Recreational bones contain marrow and marrow is very high in fat, if your dog is just switching to a raw diet and isn’t accustomed to this it could have resulted in some stomach upset. I’d recommend getting some RMBs for your dog. Primal does sell some RMBs but you could likely get them for a lot cheaper at a butcher. I get chicken backs for $0.40/lb. and turkey necks for $0.60/lb.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi weimlove –

Great choice on switching to raw, you’ll notice a big difference in your dog’s health. I agree with everything Shawna said. I just wanted to add some info on a pre-mix I like. I feed mostly homemade (you can check out a weekly feeding schedule for my dogs on the “Suggested Raw Dog Food Menus?” thread) however I use Urban Wolf Pre-mix three mornings a week. What I like about Urban Wolf versus other pre-mixes is that it’s a fine powder and in my experience digests better (with pre-mixes like Sojo’s I notice an increase in stool volume and pieces of undigested veggies coming out) and that it relies on whole foods for nutrition – the only “vitamin” added is calcium, everything else comes from whole foods and I like that you have to add organ meat so your dog gets a lot of necessary nutrients from the organs rather than from added synthetic vitamins and minerals. You also need to add oil (but I’d recommend just adding an omega 3 and omitting the omega 6 oil they call for in the recipe, it’s not necessary to add the omega 6 oil and it results in the end recipe being too high in fat – you can see how I prepare it on the menus thread if you’re interested). The only downside of Urban Wolf, for me, is that it does contain white potato (although it’s pretty far down on the ingredients list and not a major component) – but I only use it a few mornings a week so it’d not of big concern for me. If you’re using only pre-mixes every day it’d probably be best to rotate and use several different pre-mixes. Here’s some good info on pre-mixes and it explains several of the options out there: http://dogaware.com/diet/dogfoodmixes.html . I’d recommend feeding an even rotation of white meat and red meat, don’t rely on one or the other as they have different types of fats and if you only feed one or the other it would throw off the fat balance in your dog’s diet. The more variety the better. I’d also recommend feeding raw meaty bones at least two or three times a week this way your dog can get the full dental benefits a raw diet has to offer. I have large dogs and usually feed things like turkey necks, chicken backs, chicken leg quarters, duck necks, etc. Chicken necks and chicken wings work well for smaller dogs. I’d avoid the weight bearing bones of large ruminants (such as marrow bones, knuckle bones, etc.) as they are too dense and can potentially chip a tooth or over time your dog can wear their teeth down – in my experience they also don’t digest well either, I used to feed them to my dogs occasionally and it seemed like they’d always puke up bone shards. Good luck! Be sure to come back if you have any questions, quite a few of us here feed raw and would love to help. 🙂

[Shawna]

Hi weimlove ~~ I’m with HDM on this one 🙂 And you are right about rabies too..

The American Animal Hospital Association put out a canine vaccination recommendation in 2006 (there is a later one as well but the 2006 is easier to read imo). In the 2006 guidelines they CLEARLY state that it is KNOWN that the core vaccines (minus rabies) last longer than 1 year AND 3 years. The recommendation is to give (distemper, parvo and adeno) “every 3 years or longer”. Note the “or longer”. In the “Comments and Recommendations” section of the chart starting on page 4 they give the efficacy data for the individual core vaccines — they are 5 to 7 years. It is said that testing was only done that long and efficacy is like for life just like vaccines in humans. /forums/topic/vaccinating/#post-11205

When you do your research google Dr. Ronald Schultz. Dr. Schultz is an immunologist and pathobiologist at the Univerisity of Wisconsin and the leading expert on pet vaccines in the US and one of only a few in the world. Dr. Schultz and Dr. Jean Dodds DVM are currently under way with The Rabies Challenge Fund to prove the rabies vaccine lasts at least 7 years. On the website they discuss some of the damage known to be caused by vaccines (heinz body anemia, kidney disease etc etc). http://www.rabieschallengefund.org/

And if you have the time, Dr. Karen Becker DVM did a four part interview series with Dr. Ronald Schultz that is VERY enlightening (Dr. Schultz titers his own puppies to show when the mom’s immunity is gone and then gives the shots one at a time). He titers from then on (they don’t get any boosters). Here’s the link to the 1st of the 4 part video interview (each about 12 minutes long). http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xC–bGthNN8

Good luck and best of health to your pup!!!

[Shawna]

Nice post yourself!!! Nice anologies too!!!

“When her immune system is that overloaded, any other toxin can’t be adequately dealt with either. So they begin to illicit symptoms as well.” VERY true — I know things are really going down hill when I start to be affected by scents. At times I can not walk anywhere near a bath and body shop or perfume counter without nausea and headaches. When my body is cleaner I don’t react (still not good for us but no outward manifestation of noticable symptoms).

The guy, Raymond Francis, Toxed is talking about that cleaned himself by going to the mountains was so sick he couldn’t use a telephone due to the toxins in the plastic, read a newspaper or paper book etc. He too was told he was dying (while in the hospital). Mr. Francis got healthy and then wrote the book “Never Be Sick Again” discussing his ordeal and how to prevent these type of illnesses (including cancer). It is an excellent read.. His analogy of disease —– there is only one disease and that is malfunctioning cells. There are two causes of malfunctioning cells and those are deficiency and toxicity. And there are six “pathways” that will get you to health or disease. He explains it all in the book going into detail regarding each pathway.

One final thought, the Environmental Working Group has an article titled “Polluted Pets”. Here’s a quote from the article.

“The results show that America’s pets are serving as involuntary sentinels of the widespread chemical contamination that scientists increasingly link to a growing array of health problems across a wide range of animals—wild, domesticated and human…

But with their compressed lifespans, developing and aging seven or more times faster than children, pets also develop health problems from exposures much more rapidly…. http://www.ewg.org/reports/pets

[Toxed2loss]

Good posts Patty & Shawna!

Like Shawna, I have personal detox stories. I was sprayed with monitor, an organophosphate insecticide, while surveying a farm, then repeatedly & deliberately exposed to several pesticides. Eventually I became so immune compromised that every toxic substance, even trace amounts through second or third hand exposures, produced life threatening reactions. Multiple heart attacks, strokes, seizures respiratory paralysis, asthma, lymphoma, lymphodenopathy…. It’s a huge list. At one time it was 3 pages, 3 columns. I experience new and different reactions depending on the bio-interactions of the specific toxins I’m exposed to. Yes, I also deal with boils, sores, hives, weals, itching, chemical burns, conjunctivitis (gooby or crusty eyes), ear itching & discharge, scalp reactions, TMJ, IBS… You name it. 8 years ago the doctor I used to see told me to go home and die. He said, “There is no treatment, there is no cure, it will get worse with every exposure. Go home and avoid all (exposures).” Then he told me he wouldn’t see me, or help me, anymore. The good news is he was wrong. :-}

Sonia, my 16 year old Pom, has gone through the deliberate spraying and is toxically injured, too. She’s had 3 surgeries for tumors, has seizures upon exposures, and has had both the eye & ear problems. She also had motor impairment & neurosis. Her symptoms flair during environmental exposures and resolve after detoxing. Like many of you I used to give her the annual vacs and regular worming. She’s much better since I quit those.

Rosie, my 2 yr old service dog, had a very bad reaction to her first, and only, set of vacs. She is still detoxing that vac. A Merck immunologist told me it would take at least 2 years. My doc did some more research and said, probably 3. Her symptoms include conjunctivitis, ear discharge & lymphatic cysts.

Different toxins take different amounts of time to fully detox. The cleaner (non-toxic) your, or your pets, diet and environment, the better you or they are able to handle the current toxins, and unload them: detox. Let me give you a couple of analogies. The one my doctor likes to use is to equate the immune system to a rain barrel, the kind that waters the lawn or garden. Every day toxins fill it up, and are drained off at a certain rate. When the barrel receives more than it can handle it over flows. The overflow represents symptoms of toxic injury. Small over flow, small symptoms, like itchy skin, hot spots, conjunctivitis, ear discharge. Large overflow, major alarming symptoms, which can range from chronic acute skin disorders, and impacted ears to seizures, heart attacks, respiratory distress, cancer… You get the picture. The problem is that most of us don’t recognize the problem until it manifests at the chronic level.

The analogy I use when counseling is to picture yourself in a small row boat, rowing across a large bay. The freeboard, the distance between the top of the water and the gunnel (top of the side) of the boat represents your immune system. The bay represents your life. You row across, or proceed through your life. When the weather is fine, there’s a lot of freeboard. If you’re carrying a lot of baggage, there’s less free board. Unfortunately the water often gets rough, reducing your freeboard, and even allowing water to come into your boat. (i.e. you’re operating with an impaired immune system, and most likely a chronic condition.) Most of us keep rowing along, even though now we’re pulling not only our weight and the boat’s weight, but the added weight of the water, as well. If we don’t stop and bail, eventually the boat will sink, or capsize in a storm. Bailing is detox.

You have to stop letting or putting toxins into your, or your dog’s, life. That’s the first and most important step. That means reducing or eliminating as many toxins as you possibly can from BOTH your diet and environment. Second, support the immune system. Third, assist your body in removing them.
This is not an easy answer. It takes time and commitment. Shawna gave you an excellent example illustrating that you can’t expect to treat it once and then “go back to normal.” If you go back to exposing your body to the toxic substances that trigger reactions, the symptoms of an immune system in crisis come back. They will get worse over time, you will react more violently to smaller amounts. This is because you haven’t completely cleared the toxic overload. If it helps you to visualize, you only removed the top inch or so of the water from the barrel, so its still on the verge of overflowing again. Just a little bit, and wham! symptoms. It’s called “neural sensitization” or hypersensitivity. There’s also the spreading phenomenon to consider. In Shawna’s post she talked specifically about dairy. Dairy casein’s have caused her barrel to overflow. When her immune system is that overloaded, any other toxin can’t be adequately dealt with either. So they begin to illicit symptoms as well. Soon the body learns to respond to that toxin with a “condition red” response. Here’s the good news, it can be corrected. I haven’t looked up the same info in dogs, but in people every cell in the body is replaced in 7 years. So theoretically, if you could avoid all toxic substances for 7 years, you’d have an empty barrel. O.k. There is a guy that did that, went off to a mountain top, no phone, no electricity, no toxins, and it did work. So its more than a theory. It’s just not very practical. Since our society & world are so inundated with toxins, its impossible to avoid them all. You won’t get an empty barrel. You can get a declining barrel if you commit to living non-toxic, and bailing your boat.

Oiy! There is so much more to say!! Detoxing is critical! We are living in an age of rampant toxic chemicals accepted as normal within our own homes! The CDC states that indoor air pollution is often 100 times more toxic than outside air. Cleaners, pesticides (think bug spray, flea & worm treatments, and mold killers) fragrances, laundry products, petroleum products and food additives! We slather these on every surface in our homes and right on our own, or our pets bodies. We willingly ingest them! There are three pathologies for toxic exposures: ingestion, inhalation and absorbed through the skin. Then step outside where people routinely apply pesticide to the their lawns, gardens and pavement as though it was soap & water! So do municipalities, schools, counties and states! Add to that road fumes, asphalt, dryer exhaust, industrial emissions… Etc.

Leading specialist in the fields of oncology, neurology, cardiology, pulmonary & reproductive medicine & many others are now saying that “All diseased states are caused, or exacerbated by consumer product & environmental toxins.”

We were never designed to live in a world that is inundated with so many synthetic toxins. Neither were our pets. Our bodies can’t keep up. The ADA (American’s with Disabilities Act) Region 10 office says, “chemical hypersensitivity is the fastest growing segment of the disabled population.” They don’t even consider pets, whose little bodies are closer to the ground (many widely used pesticides are heavier than air, and settle along the ground, traveling for 100s of feet, if not miles). Our pets have a faster rate of respiration, so they breathe in more. Our veterinary practices have been encouraging annual revaccinating and over vaccination as well as extremely toxic (and ineffective) flea, tick & Heartworm control. Insects are far more adaptive and resilient than mammals. We have inadvertently developed pests that are immune to the poisons… So we obediently poison our pets for nothing. 🙁 Though, there is a movement to change that. Awareness is growing.

What else do you want to know?

[Shawna]

H Sophia,

I’ve had to fight fleas on my foster dogs. This is what has worked for me — first I wash the dog with a shampoo or soap that has tea tree in it (Dr. Bronner’s is a soap with tea tree that is the right ph for a dog’s skin – any castile soap is). Toxed has recommended Dr. Bronner’s mint soap as well. When bathing you will want to wet the head first as I’ve read that the fleas will scury towards the ears for protection — starting with the head will block them. Make sure to get soap everywhere but ears and eyes (in between toes as an example). Rince off and towel or blow dry.

Once dry I apply food grade diatomaceous earth down to the skin by parting the fur and taking a pinch of the DE between my fingers and making sure it gets on the skin not just the fur. Then I rub it in the area. (DE looks and feels like white flour but it actually has sharp edges. Those edges are harmless to us and our dogs (unless too much is inhaled) but are deadly to insects. They damage the exoskeleton and cause the insect/flea to dehydrate causing death.) I apply the DE from the top of the head to the beginning of the tail and across the back. If the dogs fur is light colored you can see the flea dirt and apply where it is seen. I have found that it is not necessary to do the entire dog — just head and back (I’m guessing this is the area where they feed?). I don’t spare the DE when I appy it but you do want to make sure to keep dust clouds down as breathing it in is not great for the lungs. I rebath and reapply DE about once a week or evey other week. DE can be a bit drying but after the fleas are dead and no more is applied the coat will go back to normal.

I also have a bottle of premade essential oils that are flea deterants. I’ll spritz some of that on all the dogs as a preventative. Here’s a premade product (there are others available) http://healthypets.mercola.com/sites/healthypets/natural-flea-and-tick-control.aspx

In the environment you want to vacuum (including baseboards and furniture that can’t be laundered etc). You also want to wash any bedding.

A few fleas is really not that hard to get rid of but if you don’t address it an infestation can develop and that can be a royal pain to battle.. Hopefully you have caught it early enough that one or two baths and one or two DE applications is all it will take along with vacuuming and laundering. If you end up with an infestation there’s more you can do but for now this, in my experiene, is a good start.

Good luck!!!

[InkedMarie]

The only thing I don’t like about Weruva is that it’s made in Taiwan (I think that’s where I read). I’d prefer USA made

[Ramona72]

It’s so frustrating, isn’t it? You just keep trying all sorts of things, and none of them works! Glad to read that the grain-free food did the trick for your poodle. Sadie is still on grain-free — every kibble I’ve given her is grain-free. I’m wondering now if it’s her treats. I rotate Sojos lamb, Blue Buffalo duck/potato, & Natural Instinct rabbit. When her stools get mushy, I almost go into PTSD! That’s the first symptom I saw with my other dog who had IBD, but it wasn’t diagnosed… She does get real (cooked) chicken, turkey, ground beef, and ground bison, too. The stains are really bad now, but we are beginning our cedar season down here which is brutal for anything that breathes. That explains some of the staining, but not what has been going on before the cedar hit. I just can’t figure out what I’m doing wrong.

I didn’t know that about Angel Eyes, but I instinctively did not want to use it. To keep Sadie’s eyes from being stinky, I dilute a small amount of hydrogen peroxide in some water and apply it with a Q-Tip or a baby toothbrush. She seems very grateful when I do this. Doesn’t do a lot for the stains, though…

BTW, thanks to everyone who has posted their thoughts about this topic. Every little bit of information is helpful.

[Toxed2loss]

I looked at funding and several groups that offer service dogs of different kinds. She should check the net for local groups. The waiting lists are so long, its hard to get a service or therapy dog from the established organizations. There are way more deserving recipients than there are dogs. Vets and certain ‘mainstream recognized groups’ get preference. If you fall outside those catagories, it gets harder. However, in most states, you can train your own. Texas being the biggest exception. I recommend Stewart Nordensson’s “Teamwork” & “Teamwork II” (ISBN 9780965621618) As the best ‘train your own books’ out there. Then she should get a RX for one from her MD, and a letter. The dog can not be protection trained. “Teamwork” gives the basic training skills for those who aren’t proficient already. “Teamwork II” is specifically for service dogs. Therapy dogs are service dogs and should be trained to pass all the standard service dog skills tests, regardless of wether you take them through a program or not. If your dog’s in public, it needs to be under control, especially if you need it. While they can’t deny service dogs entry, they can ask you and an ill behaved or disruptive dog, even if its supposed to be a service or therapy dog to leave. The other thing you can do is hire a trainer. They can either do it for you or coach you. Often there are local groups working on training there own together. Most also work to get their CGC. 🙂

You can use any dog with the appropriate temperament as a therapy dog, providing he/she is trained. So you can train the one you have or adopt a suitiable dog from a pound, or purchase one for training. There are lots of options. Stewart’s books will really help her to solve her problems outside the box. 🙂

[Anonymous]

Butch seems to feel much better, no more bleeding into the skin, eating his raw B.A.R.F. from California well, always hungry, probably from the one half pill 10 mg every other day of Prednisone. But one thing has appeared suddenly, little bumps all over, like when he had the hives at the vet, upon closer inspection, they look like the mast cell tumors. One on his chest has grown to nickel sized in a week! I title this note ringworm because at the same time, the cat we rescued three years ago had ringworm by his eye from the injury (we rescued off the highway after he was hit by a car). That was the mess of the year three years ago when ringworm spread throughout our home, now this is complicated, we thought the cat brought the ringworm with him but due to the injury and being compromised, thin, wormy etc. when rescued. This was not the first incidence we had with ringworm, 15 years earlier we rescued a kitten from a broken down barn area and she was compromised and emaciated, we bring back to health and she gets ringworm. We muddled through that got everyone well, we always have multiple animals from rescuing, you know what I mean. Anyway, fast forward to now, the cat who was rescued from three years ago, has been swatted by buddy cat (we have five cat members in family, ranging ages 9 to 2 years, neutered and cared for, not overvaccinated!!) and had a scratch by eye, treated with Veterycin eye wash I keep on hand. Seemed fine, then now Butch is sick and cat’s eye appears to have ringworm again! I know it can stay around, no matter how you try to clean. So here we are back with ringworm, and Butch with his compromised immune system and at first I thought his bumps were the ringworm again, that is how he showed signs of it three years ago, like raised thick scabs! Horrible, but now the spots are all these skin tag looking warts which when looking on line really look like the mast cell tumors. The last I want to mention here is how it turns out I was the ringworm carrier all along!!! I had worked for Fort Wayne Animal Control 1985 to 1992 and immediately got a strange rash on my body, no dermotologist could figure it out at the time, so I lived with it all these years. This last ringworm incidence three years ago, I put the ringworm medicine all over me too, and lo and behold it cured that rash!!! It had been ringworm all along and NO dermo could figure that out even with cutting biopsies out of my flesh! Can you believe that, vets told me to put down those cats because ringworm was so hard to conquer and it is but could you imagine if I had killed those cats and here I was the cause!!

[Honeybeesmom1]

After 8 years of Honeybee on heartworm meds
he hasn’t had any HW pill in one yr. He’s so sensitive to everything.
The others haven’t in 4 months.
I’m scared that I haven’t given to them…but I was also scared of the dangerous side effects they could have.
I do give them garlic 4 days per week and careful on what hours I let them outside.
I’ve read up on herbs that prevent heart worm…but there’s just sooo many different sites and herbs – I don’t know which to give.
Do you give or not give? What info can you give on the herbs. Thanks

[DogFoodie]

As the CEO of Pooper Scooping at my house, I’ve done almost as much research on “waste management” as I’ve done on dog food.

Before I got Sam, I used a Litter Locker: http://www.amazon.com/Angelcare-LitterLocker-II/dp/B0061PQCRI/ref=sr_1_4?s=pet-supplies&ie=UTF8&qid=1355278436&sr=1-4&keywords=litter+locker+ii. It’s meant for cats, but with only Arabella (my Cavalier) at the time, it was perfect. I kept it in the shed and it didn’t smell a bit. I’ve also read where people with one little dog flush their dog’s poop down the “commode.”

I’ve looked at the classic alternative waste disposal, the Doogie Dooley. Unfortunately, it gets too cold here in the Winter and I’d still have to find an alternate method of disposal for the colder months. Plus, I’ve heard they tend to get a little stinky in the Summer.

Then, there’s the amazing Doggie Doo Drain: http://www.amazon.com/Doggie-Doo-Drain-Waste-Attachment/dp/B0020N940C/ref=sr_1_21?s=pet-supplies&ie=UTF8&qid=1355278735&sr=1-21&keywords=Poop+dog+disposal. I found this one remarkably fascinating. You attach it to your sewer clean out and “flush” your dog stuff down with the garden hose. Unfortunately, my clean out is in the front yard in a fairly conspicuous location and I I didn’t want to haul poop and the hose around to the front yard, especially in the Winter.

I thought abut vermicomposting, tumbler composting, etc. All of those ideas seemed a little labor intensive.

So, I’ve ended up with a heavy gauge stainless steel six gallon bucket that I line with a garbage bag, fill ‘er up and then pitch into the garbage on garbage day. The only problem is, the garbage can stinks even though the bag is only in it overnight.

So, my question for you guys is, what clever ways (hopefully environmentally-friendly ways) have yu come up to dispose of your doggy’s doo?

; )

• This topic was modified 13 years ago by DogFoodie.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi Blue Corgi –

No, the ingredients aren’t just made up. Knowing how to balance a homemade diet is VERY important. Feeding an unbalanced diet can result in some serious health issues if the unbalanced diet is fed long term. It’s wonderful that you’re interested in feeding your dogs a homemade diet – I STRONGLY feel that when done correctly a homemade diet is the healthiest thing for a dog.

Ingredients you use will differ slightly based on whether you’re planning on feeding raw or cooked. But with either diet the most important thing is getting the correct calcium to phosphorus ratio. The ratio of calcium to phosphorus needs to be between 1:1 and 2:1. To achieve this when feeding a raw diet with bone you will want to feed 80% boneless muscle meat, 10% organ meat and 10% bone and for cooked diets or raw diets without bone you want to feed 90% boneless muscle meat, 10% organ meat and add 800-1,000 mg. calcium per pound of meat and organ fed. Green tripe is a rare exception to this rule as green tripe naturally has a 1:1 calcium to phosphorus ratio. You should feed an even mixture of red meat and poultry – don’t feed predominately one or the other as they have different types of fats. I give my dogs red meat in the a.m. and poultry in the p.m. As far as being “exact every time” – you don’t have to be exact every time but you do need to be exact over time. This means, if you decide you want to feed a meal that’s 20% organ meat at breakfast you can just feed a meal without organ meat at dinner – this would still balance out to your dog getting 10% organ meat in its diet. Balance over time.

You should feed around 80% meat – the other 20% can be vegetables, fruits, extras and supplements. All veggies should be cooked and pureed as dogs don’t produce the enzyme cellulase to breakdown the cellulose in raw veggies – cooking and pureeing in a sense “pre-digests” the veggies so the dog can derive some nutrients from them. Extras are optional and would include things like eggs, cottage cheese, yogurt, kefir, etc.

For supplements I would recommend adding a form of animal-based omega 3’s (fish body oil or an oily fish such as sardines), vitamin e and super-foods (kelp, alfalfa, spirulina, etc.). I also give my dogs Carlson cod liver oil every other day for some extra vitamin d (cod liver oil should be limited though as it’s very high in vitamin a, I feed Carlson because it has the lowest vitamin a levels). You can add a multi-vitamin if you wish but if you’re feeding a wide variety of foods and adding the supplements I mentioned I don’t think it would be necessary. If you’re feeding a cooked diet you may want to consider supplementing with enzymes. If you don’t feed kefir, yogurt and/or green tripe on a regular basis you may also want to consider a probiotic supplement a few days of the week.

Lastly – keep this in mind because it’s critical when feeding a homemade diet – variety! Feed many different protein sources, many different types of organs, different fruits, veggies and extras and rotate different supplements into the mix every once in awhile. This will help to ensure that over time your dogs get all the nutrients they need.

Another option to make things easier – if you don’t feel comfortable making food from scratch yet – would be to use a premix. With a premix you generally just add meat and water – the mix contains all the fruits, veggies and supplements your dog needs. Some good premixes are The Honest Kitchen’s Preference, Sojo’s, Urban Wolf, Birkdale Petmix and Dr. Harvey’s.

I would recommend checking out dogaware.com – there’s a lot of good information on homemade diets there. I would also recommend reading Steve Brown’s book “Unlocking the Canine Ancestral Diet.” If you check out the “menu” topic on the raw thread I’ve posted my dogs’ menu so you can get an idea of what a balanced diet should look like.

I hope that helps. Feel free to post any questions! Quite a few of us here feed homemade food and can help you out. 🙂

[mydogisme]

Hi all, My dog is 9 yrs old and as I have been asking questions from everywhere I can think of about her illness I have something to say about the perscription food from S.D. Dixie suffers from Hemolytic Anemia. She has been on SD Z/D for over a year and I started to notice her health just wasn’t the same during the year. Now I’am ocd when it comes to the love of my life,Dixie. I call and go to her vet so much,Dixie should have her own parking space! But now my baby of 81/2 yrs is very sick and I am trying to give her the best of the best of the best. Iam very scared for her because what I have read she may have to have her spleen removed. I just need to hear from others who may have gone through this type of illness with their fur baby. Dixie has been my rock. She has gone through my breast cancer with me. She went through my x husband friends who lived next door to us hurassment. She went through having lighter fluid sprayed on her and was in the hospital for 3 weeks,again it was the neighbors,thank goodness thay are gone and dead. She was hit by a car,no bones broken,she was playing with kids at the ball park,a car ran off the road 15 feet and hit her.The driver thought he hit a child.When he found out after turning around he hit a dog,he left. Everyone helped me load her in the car and we flew to the dr and again she was in the hospital for 3 weeks and her mom (Me) was beside her from 7am to closing everyday giving her finger tip drops of water,telling her how much I love her and stories of our walks to the parks and seeing the squrles and ducks. Then she and I were hit head on by a pickup truck. She was in her seat belt in the back seat. As I was taken by ambulance to the hospital,as fireman took her to the local animal hospital and told them to check her out from A to Z. I picked her up the next day and she was ok. EVERY DOG SHOULD BE IN A VESTED SEAT BELT! NOT IN A LAP OR IN THE BACK OF A TRUCK!!!! She has been my little wonder dog. I need to find ways to save this little girls life as she has saved mine so many times. Mike has done such a great job at letting us all know about the dog foods that I feel have so much to do with the health of our family members. If anyone has any way to let me know what they did for their baby who has this type of illness,please let me know. Thanks, I’m Dixie’s mom