[jas84047]

Thank you Sandy and Marie for the quick responses and opinions. I’m very happy to get them. I decided to order some Probiotic chews for my gassy dogs and stick with the Sr Whole Earth Farms. I like the info on Whole Earth Farms Puppy protein but worry about my less active Sr dogs getting any fatter. Especially my Golden/lab mix that has thyroid cancer and cannot regulate it well anyway. I don’t know. I now think I will rotate in another feed in as well but mostly stay on the Whole Earth Farms. I already order online- due to the amount of food we go through (3 dogs/3 cats– speaking of cats, how come there’s not cat food advisor?) and I can find the better deals on the good foods online. I will await the re-review of Premium Edge before deciding on that one as a possibly add-on. Fromm, Merrick Classics and GF are a little out of my price point, Victor I have a hard time finding anywhere -including online, I think right now I’m leaning toward Healthwise chicken/oatmeal, Canidae chicken/rice, or Chicken Soup….
Sound about right? Now which of these last 3 would you go with to add into rotation?

Thanks again for all your help!

[Nancy M]

Dear Betsy Greer,

Sorry that I have not seen a particular post back to me, until just now, actually quite by accident. I was trying to follow back up with you about a different response you had given, and I saw one I had not seen before. Don’t know what happened, but anyway…….

I was trying to find the post that specifically mentioned the Nutrisource food you had suggested because I thought for sure you had recommended the ADULT formula of the Chicken and Rice. So I was wanting to double-check that and sure enough that’s what it said. So my question is, why the ADULT formula and not the puppy chicken and rice? Surely they must make a puppy formula? Either there’s a specific reason for that, or it was a “typo” or something??????? Please explain.

Addressing your response that I had not seen before……thanks so much for your obvious concern of this puppy! Here’s an update.

It’s been two weeks today that the meds were started. It has been an upside and downside battle, to put things lightly. But all in all, I think he’s doing quite well, most of the time. We’ve had to adjust/add to some of his meds and stay in close contact with the vet. As I may have mentioned, I have this puppy 3 – 4 days a week while my daughter is working, then on Thursdays, she takes him home until Sunday night again. This last Thursday, he had finally turned the corner, and the stools, while being very large and semi-frequent, looked completely normal. However, over the weekend, he regressed again, for whatever reason. Started him back on the Albon again last night, even though a fecal on Saturday did not show any Coccidia. But vet said it doesn’t necessarily mean there’s not something still there. So now today, I have him back again. He had a good night and as of this morning, stools look back to normal. But in my opinion, I think he still would benefit from a food change, as soon as he shows solid signs of stability. That’s why I was re-visiting puppy food recommendations, particularly those who have pretty consistently recommended this NUTRISOURCE. Problem is that my daughter is not anywhere close to where I am as far as being picky about dog foods. So, I’m probably fighting a losing battle here.

I also have suspicions that this little pup is being adversely affected by changing households like this…..mine is quiet and relaxed; being just me (and I’m a 62 year old single retiree) and my 3 year old Sheltie (who just absolutely adores this little puppy). Hers is full of action and rather chaotic, from being a working mom, 2 young children and a farm to manage. I firmly believe it is all adding way too much stress to an already stressed out puppy. I intend to speak with her and urge her to consider finding another home for this pup, once he is well and stable (if that can be achieved). I don’t want a puppy (or grandchild) to raise, and even though I’m glad to help out temporarily, I doubt this is going to be temporary…..at least anytime soon. I think this puppy needs and deserves a stable, better suited environment. Anything short of that is going to delay his recovery as well as affect his overall security and emotional development. Obviously, my daughter has either forgotten what all is involved in raising a puppy and/or quite likely, never tried to care for one with these issues. It’s very tough! Been there – done that, more than I ever wanted, but what else can you do? You just get through it! Unfortunately, I think other issues in her household are making it even tougher and longer!

So, while the pup is doing very well at this time, there is a lot more to do and think about here. I’ve certainly got my work cut out for me. Thank you so much for being concerned and giving your valuable advice.

[Sully’sMom]

A coworker is getting a large breed puppy in Dec/Jan (yellow lab); my own lab is now 15 months and off puppy food, but I found HDM’s list invaluable. Since this thread is now 50 pages (!), can anyone direct me conveniently to the list so I can give it to my friend? Is there a printable version? Thank you!

[2pups]

Hi guys,

maybe slightly off topic but just wanted to say thanks to all of you posting helpful info on large breed pups. I got a ridgeback pup 5 weeks ago and within a couple of days what seemed like nothing turned into one of his legs beginning to bow and knuckle over. 2 days after that it was breaking my heart to watch him walk. The vet suggested royal canin as a premium dog food, thanks to this site I found out that its only the price that makes this product premium. For 2 days my pup ate this and showed no improvement. After researching the cause of my puppy Dozer’s problem switched him to Holisitic Select for large breed puppies. Within a couple of days there was already improvement showing and within 1 week he was a different happier puppy. His leg is now 100% and his coat feels like silk instead of bristles. So thanks again.

[RescueDaneMom]

Mercman and Patty- I remember a conversation way back in the thread where someone mentioned to HDM that Kirkland’s had changed ratings and had been downgraded from 4 stars. I think it used to be on the original list but was taken off when HDM revised it because it was no longer a 4 star food.

Mercman- if you really want to use Kirkland’s, reach out to the manufacturer to see if you can get the actual percentage of calcium in the food rather than the minimum and we can see if it’s appropriate for large breed growth.

[theBCnut]

Growth spurts don’t come from protein level. There is an old myth going around that won’t die, because ignorant breeders perpetuate it, that high protein causes too fast growth in large breed dogs. This has been disproven. Period. The real culprits are overfeeding and too much calcium. This has been proven. Period. I’m relatively positive that one of the links that Hound Dog Mom provided on the first page of this thread was to the study summary where these facts were proven. However, you can google it for yourself, just google “calcium levels for large breed puppies” and you will get a few different studies about it. If you want to go at it from the other direction, google “protein levels for large breed puppies.” Try looking for actual science rather than some breeders opinion though, there are definitely articles supporting every opinion under the sun. If in your research, you find that Hound Dog Mom is right, then by all means share what you have learned with your breeder. She needs more current info.

[Nancy M]

Dear “lovemycanines”,

Yes, i was told that also, and I have done some extensive reading and research on the subject and know that can happen. And then even if it does resolve on it’s own, there is no guarantee it will last. But why it does or doesn’t, no one knows. It’s just a very, very appropriately named “idiopathic” condition…..and so very hard to deal with, as you also know. I will tell you what was told to me and you may have been told the same thing….apparently there can be several “veins” or branches of these little ducts that cannot always be seen or found in surgery….and so it is very difficult for a surgeon to find exactly what is leaking……sometimes. Putting all the unknowns in there, I just did not want to, nor could I afford the surgery with such little promise. And I did not want to spend what time I may have had left with my dog, subjecting him to this surgery. It’s just a very tough call! We all have to make the decisions that we feel comfortable with. And bless your heart, it sounds like you’ve had to make so many! Whatever you choose to do, I very much wish you the very best! You just never know!

As far as the diet and the Hills food, have you already tried adding something in that he really likes, to make him eat better? For mine, I made up some homemade chicken or turkey with rice, just enough to make it more appealing, so he ate it well. A little bit of anything to make him eat, surely wouldn’t make a big difference, as long as it’s not fatty.

As far as the Seameal and Benazipril, I can’t say that they have really affected anything with the CHYLOTHORAX, but the Benazipril is for him, like us taking a low dose of aspirin everyday for heart health, and it not only helped with the hypertension, it’s just something that tends to help the entire system. So I’ve kept him on it just as a support measure, same as the Seameal. The Seameal is made by Solid Gold (dog food brand) and just has a lot of minerals, vitamins, probiotics and digestive enzymes in it. There are several others on the market, but I was just already familiar with the Solid Gold product.

Please keep in touch and let me know how you are both doing. I will do the same. Be sure to take care of you too!

[Akari_32]

Haha, I’ve had that happen a few times lol It’s ok 🙂

I have noticed since adding fish oil to Bentley’s food I’ve been able to feed him less. You may recall this little 8 pound freak eats a whole cup @.@ I was adding it daily, when his fur was really bad, but since its almost back to full length now, I’ve only been doing it a few times a week. I’ve been giving him 1/2 to 1 cup now, usually closer to 3/4 to 1. I wonder if I should apply this theory to Haley? She needs the meat on her bones, not Bentley! lol

Also related to this… I was going to pick up some apple cider vinegar for Haley yesterday, but I wasn’t sure if it was the right kind! I read somewhere about unfiltered and something else, but I couldn’t find anything like that on the bottle, so I opted not to get it yet, since we seem to be on a pretty good track with those ProSence doggy vitamins. I also considered keifer, but forgot to pick it up LOL I just want unflavored, plain, correct? And how much of each of these should I give her?

Where can I get kelp and spirulina? There aren’t really any near by health food food stores, so I’m limited to Publix, WinnDixie (yuck!) and WalMart (more yuck!), and maybe Target. And again, how much do I give?

[kms]

Duke the Boxer, RescueDaneMom and PattyVaughn –

Thanks for responding so quick. I started to try to learn about the various probiotics and enzymes on the supplements thread and just got totally overwhelmed at all the choices (think my brain is full). So I ordered Mercola Probiotics and Digestive Enzymes, since that is what I’ve seen recommended the most here. But I’m going to try the Biostareq Terra Biota K9 and Dr. Langer’s also – sounds like supplements can be just as trial and error as the kibble.

PattyVaughn –

When I cut “back to a couple times a week” – do you mean cut back the probiotics AND the digestives enzymes or cut back probiotics only?

I saw on Mercola’s website where they recommend that you feed the Digestive Enzymes a couple hours after each meal, not at each meal. Is that what I should do or just give it with the meal?

As far as the pumpkin, I will up the dose. He’s 32 lbs now, so that’s 3 tsp pumpkin – is that 3 tsp per meal or per day?

As far as the 20%…. He eats 3 c kibble per day, so adding a 20% topper would mean a little under ¾ cup, right? And that means I should decrease his kibble by 20% to account for the topper, right? (I feel like I’m asking stupid questions, but I need to make sure).

Should the meat be raw or cooked? I use chopped cooked chicken for training treats, but he has never eaten anything raw – I’m worried it will upset his stomach.

Thanks so much to everyone – I finally feel like I’m getting somewhere!!!

[AlexandraY]

New to this forum, I’m just skimming as I’ve been feeding and researching vegan dog foods since I decided to try V-Dog about 3-4 years ago, as there was a sample at the shelter where I volunteer. What I heard from UC Davis veterinary school is that dogs are OMNIVORES. Although related to wolves, they’ve been a separate species for MILLENNIA. They generally do not hunt, so they don’t get the vegetables and grains (and by-products, btw) wild canides get when they eat the entire animal they’ve killed.
Again, according to Davis & several sources ,including Nestle & Nesheim’s “Feed Your Pet Right,” dogs are biologically capable of digesting animal proteins.
I could cite many other sources, although there are veterinarians who disagree. But the facts are facts. Meat does not contain better “quality” protein; it simply contains complete amino acids. If you combine properly and add B12 and a few other supplements, the food is complete.
What I’ve found, in reading the arguments against, is that people have a ‘feeling’ dogs should eat meat for health because they are descended from wolves. But that’s a cultural bias, not a biological one.
Forgive me if I’ve repeated; I just skimmed for now.
Will give more citations on request!

[Duke The Boxer]

Well dr Tim’s actually says to feed a whole cup less than what was recommended on the nv. I’m feeding him now like 2 1/4 cups a day divided into 2 meals. Supposedly for his weight which is 42 pounds he should be getting like 2 cups a day. On NV when he was 30 pounds he was already getting 3 cups a day. I know this is because dr Tim’s is higher per kibble than the nv so it’s convinient that you can feed him less but still be more. Duke has really been doing well on the dr Tim’s. Also recommend nutri source large breed puppy for anyone who has a puppy with soft stools. Nutri source really helped me firm his stools up after he was having intolerances to rabbit. If you have any other questions let me know! Even more so if you have very specific questions about where dr Tim’s sources his proteins and such then I would suggest emailing dr Tim directly. He is extremely friendly and helpful and answered my like 6 emails pretty quickly hahaha

[kms]

Hi – I’m new here. I was using DFA to problem-solve and evaluate diets for my 5 mo male Weim (Augie) and ended up on this thread. WOW – what a great source of info! I’ve learned a lot and want to thank HDM and all the others who contributed. Here’s my story and my problem. Any advice would really be appreciated… especially would like input from HDM..…

We brought Augie home at 9 wks and he had soft/runny stool. Vet found roundworms and treated them. After the “all clear”, I thought his stool would get better – but it didn’t. Vet checked his stool again and found very high levels of “Clostridium” and a few other bacteria commonly found in dirt (Augie is a compulsive dirt/mud/rock eater – we’re working on it). Vet put him on Metronidozol and Pro-Pectalin for 20 days (2 rounds) – it did not resolve. Then he put him on SMZ (another antibiotic) and a bland diet for 16 days. During that time, his stool got bright yellow and was still runny all the time. He also stopped gaining weight and lost several lbs (was supposed to be 38-42 lbs, but dropped to 27 lbs). I asked about using a Probiotic and canned pumpkin, but vet didn’t want to introduce anything new to his GI tract. We tested his stool again – and finally all the bacteria levels were normal and no worms. BUT his stool was still soft/runny. He also had developed colitis from the constant diarrhea/soft stool. I started giving him 1 heaping tsp canned pumpkin with each meal and slowly (over 12 days) I transitioned him from Eukanuba Puppy Growth (the breeders kibble) to Orijen Large Breed Puppy. He has now been on 100% Orijen for 11 days and I’m still giving him the pumpkin. His stool has gotten a little better – it’s formed about 75% of the time and soft about 25%. But the last couple days it has had a slick greasy coating on the outside. What does that mean?

Based on what I learned here, I have a new plan (I think). Much of this is new to me (have never used probiotics or enzymes and have never rotated foods). Also, I’m very interested in going raw (commercially made), but I don’t feel confident enough to pull the trigger yet – especially since his bowels have been so messed up for the last 3 months. What do you think of this plan:

1) Get him off Orijen – calcium is too high – did not know that till I saw HDM’s list.
2) Choose 3-4 high protein kibbles from HDM list and plan to rotate at the end of each bag.
3) Make the next food in the rotation a non-chicken, since the Euk and Orijen were both chicken based.
4) Choose a variety of toppers to be used as 20% of each meal. Use a different topper at each meal.
5) Start giving a probiotic and digestive enzymes with every meal
6) Continue 1 heaping tsp canned pumpkin with each meal
7) Learn more about going raw – would like to start with commercially made and go from there. Maybe start by using a commercial raw (THK, Primal, Darwin’s) as the topper? or is that too hard for a dog to digest (mixing raw with non-raw)?

Do I give a Probiotic and Dig Enzymes at each meal indefinitely – or just during transitions from 1 food to the next?
Do I continue the pumpkin indefinitely?
Should I add fish oil and how much?
He’s up to 32.5 lbs, but still can see hips and ribs a little. What can I do to safely get some weight on him?

I really appreciate what I have learned here and look forward to advice. Thanks!

[theBCnut]

Don’t get me wrong. I do use and recommend some kibbles. I just have a dog that has issues that severely limit what kibbles he can have, and there are literally thousands of kibbles. My brain space is limited and it is already overfull, so I try to let the people who have ideas about what will work for you have their say, instead of trying to cram more into my brain. I can’t even remember the name of my favorite website with recipes right now, but if you google making homemade dog food, it is one of the top ones that comes up. My favorite books are Dr Karen Becker’s “Real Food for Healthy Dogs and Cats” and Steve Brown’s “Unlocking the Canine Ancestral Diet.” Oh yeah, the website is Dogaware dot com.

Oh and I feed whole raw eggs twice a week and lightly cooked eggs twice a week. There are good things in both, but too much raw egg white can be a problem.

You are right, if you are going to add anything to the kibble or make homemade foods, you need a little more structure at feeding time. The first thing I would do is to take a guess at how much each dog should be eating, then decide if you want to feed one or two meals a day. I would at least start at twice a day since they are used to eating multiple times a day. Get a few cans of dog food and put 1/2 of the dog’s daily ration in a bowl with a couple spoonfuls of canned mixed in and give each dog their food bowl for 15 minutes. If they finish sooner great, tell them how good they are. If they don’t finish, pick up the food and put it in the fridge for the next meal. You may want to add warm water the next meal. Once they are in the habit of eating when you give them food, you are ready to move on.

Sorry I’m not more help. I’m having to deal with my Aunt who has Alzheimer’s and some other issues and it is driving me to distraction. I don’t know whether I’m coming or going. I don’t know what I’ve read where. Frankly, I think my brain is turning to mush too.

[kaylee1989]

I know there are a couple questions already about Red Barn products, but I am looking for more answers. I have been giving my dachshund their products on occasion. Yesterday, I just bought about 4 of their products, because his birthday is Friday. I wanted to surpise him, since he LOVES chewing on bones and things like that. Well the place I bought them from had a sign saying “Made in USA” but he told me that they had chicken treats from China. Kind of gave me a red flag. So I call them, they discontinued those chicken treats (they weren’t associated with the recent recall). They do however have treats made in USA, Paraguay, and Canada. A big question I forgot to ask is if they have any ingredients sourced from China or another country. I also decided to throw away the product from Paraguay although my dog has had it once in the past :/.

Does anyone else give their dogs these products? Is there anything good or bad anyone has to say about them? (I currently have peanut butter barn bagel, barky bark, knuckle bones, pig ear, and have given him femur bones etc in the past.) It really stinks that it’s so scary to even treat your dog anymore. Also if anyone has any suggestions for anything else I could buy him to chew on..please let me know. I also bought some bone like treats made out of bull hide or something? I know rawhide is not the best, but this guy told me if it’s made from bulls it’s better..I don’t know if he’s pulling my leg?)

I also have antlers, kong at my house for him to chew on. I’ve tried nylabones, but not impressed. He LOVES to chew though and loves new things to chew on especially and I feel like I can’t take that joy away from him. That’s why I decided to buy the Red Barn products. If it was a bad decision though, I will not give them to him.

Thanks for your help.

[Parr]

Pattyvaughn,

Thank you so much for letting me know the protein was based on the dry matter rather than the guaranteed analysis. I went back to the websites but not all of them show the dry matter information. I hate to ask, but can you tell me the formula to determine that result? You did such a good job on the calcium calculation! : ) Seriously, I love the detail you share! You are extremely helpful to everyone! Especially since I am new to this site this last week, I’ve had several questions. You have been very patient and helped me sort through all this information. Thank you so much! It is so much to take in, But I am trying.

Mfulton,

I think you may be talking about the list of “pea-free” food that was on another thread, “Dog Food Ingredients”, under the question, “Anyone’s dog allergic to Peas?”. I happened to be reading that one too so I’ve copied it here for you. I hope this is what you were looking for.

pugmomsandy wrote:

Grandma Lucy’s and The Honest Kitchen have some pea free foods. Also Great Life grain free/Pioneer Naturals. Here’s some pea free foods I had written down last year. I’m not sure if they’re still pea free:
Timberwolf
TOTW Pacific Stream (canola)
EVO red meats
EVO turkey & chicken
Pinnacle Peak (quinoa)
Grandma Lucy’s Pureformance
Natures Logic – millet, no potato
Great Life
Canine Caviar
I and Love and You by OnlyNaturalPet.com

[mfulton7]

Oh wow that’s overwhelming! So I’m assuming the Fromm isn’t going to be a good choice. I can’t remember what pea free foods you recommended to me already but are there any that come to your mind at the moment? Also would you consider a doberman a large breed? I’ve read some people classify them as a medium breed. Thanks so much for all your help it very helpful 🙂

[JoshFL]

Good day – what a perfect thread – thanks to all teh contributors and HDM especially.

The breeder we’re using for our large breed dog suggests Life’s Abundance. This site’s review is favorable, the calcium level is low…but it’s not on your master list. Is there something I should be aware of (besides the potential incentive they get for recommending the product) that would make Life’s Abundance inappropriate for our new dog?

Also, any thoughts on supplementing with butcher-bought tripe instead of the canned green tripe and raw salmon?

Thank you,

Josh

[RescueDaneMom]

The Cane Corso is considered a large breed dog because it will grow to 80lbs or larger. You should be feeding a food that is appropriate for a large breed puppy. They need to grow slow so they don’t develop bone problems. I would suggest you go to the Diet and Heath Issues forum and read through the Large and Giant Breed Puppy Nutrition thread for more info. See here: /forums/topic/large-and-giant-breed-puppy-nutrition/

A member, Hound Dog Mom, took a lot of time and effort to create a list of appropriate foods for large breed puppy growth. I would look through the list and see what is available to you. You may want to choose a food that is very different to what you are currently feeding (different protein, different carbs, etc).
Here is the list: https://docs.google.com/file/d/0BwApI_dhlbnFTXhUdi1KazFzSUk/edit?pli=1
It starts with grain-inclusive foods, then grain-free foods, and raw foods last.

I have a Great Dane (aka German Mastiff). He has done well on Annamaet, Earthborn Holistic, The Honest Kitchen (a dehydrated food, not kibble), Primal (raw), and Stella & Chewy’s (raw). You can’t go wrong if you pick anything from the list I provided. I would get small bags to see if he likes it first. You can also buy food online at places like chewy.com or petflow.com if you can’t find what you want locally.

I hope this is helpful Good luck!

[Sue’s Zoo]

I have a large breed puppy, Shiloh Shepherd. He’s 55 pounds at 4-1/2 months. With much help from information on this forum I’m feeding him half kibble (rotating between Wellness Core Puppy, Earthborn Holistic Coastal Catch, Halo Spot’s Stew Surf N Turf) and half raw (Primal and OCRraw) as well as a probiotic and supplement. He seems to be doing very well. I’m currently feeding him 5.5 cups of food per day but I’m going to increase it, at least temporarily, as he still seems hungry all the time. I’m also feeding him three times a day at this point.

My question–up to what age is it recommended to feed 3 times a day? I wonder if feeding him fewer, larger meals if he would be better satisfied.

Also, does anyone know if there’s a way to search the forums on this site? There’s a search box on the initial forum page but nothing for individual topics that I can see. They’re packed with such great information but I’m sure many questions are repeated and information missed because it’s so hard to find out which issues have already been addressed.

• This reply was modified 12 years, 1 month ago by Sue's Zoo.

[Jesika]

Hi all. I have two pit/lab mixes father and daughter, and a stray black lab mix I adopted, aged 4, 2 and just a month shy of 1 year. All three dogs have black in their tongues and I’ve been told this means they are all mixed with something other than pit or lab, but what either dad and daughter or stray is mixed with, I dunno. (daughter’s mom was a pit/wimeriner)

Anyway. So I have all three on a wellness plan and they’ve all seen the doctor for my over-worried mommy tendencies at least once a month for the last four months; I got the stray on a plan just yesterday and the docs are all impressed with her bloodwork/health/coat just like my other two.

I never had pets until my late twenties and so right off, I just followed what my then-bf did with his dog (he’d had animals for years), as far as feeding goes, which was to free feed dry kibble. While he would get the cheapest kind not caring to read the label, when I was gainfully employed I fed mine Natural Balance grain-free lamb, then had to change and for the last six months or so, they’ve all been eating the Pure Balance Chicken & Brown Rice from Walmart, as I thought $30ish for a 30 lb bag of what is supposed to be natural ingredients sounds like a good deal to me.

BUT!! I have been reading over on consumer affairs about all the dogs that’ve died eating Ol’ Roy products, sometimes the PB dry line included. My vet said try Purina One, but that has a lesser rating than Pure Balance according to this website last time I checked.

I’m trying to become more healthy in way of eating less chemicals and want to bring my dogs along, so I thought I was doing good with the PB over the Purina being that there were less questionable ingredients. But then I hear about “Well, what does the fish on the boat on its way to the processing plant get treated with?” and “Anything from China is bad for your dogs to be eating, nothing good comes outta there.” and “Dog food companies? It could be one processing plant stateside today and a different one in Taiwan tomorrow, as far as manufacturers are concerned. Both foods are still going into a bag that looks and is priced the same, and thus makes the manufacturers their profit.”

All that said… My FIRST goal, if it can be something I can afford money/time wise to do, is to simply transition my dogs from Pure Balance to homemade food. SECOND, if I cannot do that, is to find two or three trusted brands that will be healthy-as-possible without killing my pocket — I might be living off of just disability soon, but I need my dogs alive as part of my healing process should I ever hope to have “a real job” again soon.

So…let the comment flying begin please! Do you have any cheaper-than-raw-steak-all-the-time recommendations for a basic homemade diet I can start with immediately until I can build from there? Or do you have anything other than Pure Balance that you can recommend based on price-point and natural ingredients, not to mention a GOOD reputation from the brand/manufacturer??

I am very very lost, and have much to stress about already…what I’m feeding my dogs and it’s potential long-term-and-hidden side effects is not another thing I need. It seems that from what I can tell this community of dog people LOVE their pets and share advice, so please please, share!! And THANK YOU THANK YOU in advance.

Signed,
Jesika and her three…Toby, Rhi and Midnight.

P.S. What about dehydrated foods? I just saw these at my local Sprouts Market and wonder — could this, though a little more pricey than what I buy now, be a happy medium between having to worry about manufacturer defect killing my dog and my having to cook them a meal every day, all while getting the nutrition they need? Hmmm…

[VegetarianDog]

I have two vegetarian dogs, both relatively healthy. One has food allergies to animal protein and now that she’s solidly in her teens she has a bit of arthritis and some hearing loss. The other is blind from glaucoma she had before I adopted her and has had reflux for at least a couple years longer than we’ve had her (I was a humane society employee and my shelter had fostered her through heartworm treatments for a couple months with another employee when she first arrived there, then adopted her out to a home that we had to confiscate her from a year and a half or so later. Then I fell in love with her while working on rehabilitating her and wound up adopting her, so we know what she was like the first time she came through the shelter, but still have no idea about the first several years of her life). Aside from those specific issues, they’re in excellent health. When we first adopted our allergic girl, we tried all the atypical meat and carb sourced foods out there (duck and potato, venison and pea, etc). She reacted to everything, even plain fish. Her allergies are bad enough that when my brother was letting her lick out his empty individual serving yogurt cup, the teeny tiny amount of gelatin the yogurt he had contained was enough to cause her to have a flare up. Because of that, we switched to a vegetarian diet as soon as we found one that worked for her. She still craves meat 9 years later, but she just can’t have it even with twice daily antihistamines. An accidental mouthful of cat food is enough to cause a $300 vet trip for anibiitics, special shampoo, powerful antihistamjnes, and steroids and land her in an ecollar for a month because when she has a flare up, she’ll scratch and chew every inch of herself bald and keep right on chewing and scratching, crying as she’s doing it because she’s already gone through the skin. For us, vegetarian food is not a choice, it’s a necessity. Our other dog is vegetarian as well because the allergic dog will eat meat-poop if she can (thank god for top entry kitty litterboxes since cats are obligate carnivores) and flare up from that and even though we try to clean up as soon as poop happens, missing even one piece a month isn’t a risk we can take.

It would be amazing if there were more spaces where people with vegetarian or vegan dogs could go to exchange information about which of the vegetarian options are healthiest. You either won’t change their minds about the ethics or it’s a medical requirement for their dog, so isn’t it better to quit judging people and help them make the best possible choice within the parameters they’re working with?

• This reply was modified 12 years, 1 month ago by VegetarianDog. Reason: Edited for clarity

[Nancy M]

Thanks so much for your comments! I really appreciate hearing peoples experiences with this. For starters, with this pup, the test was positive for the Giardia, but there was not enough of a sample for the Coccidia test, so the vet is just treating for both. Good decision! Apparently, the Albon is for the Coccidia and the Panacur is for the Giardia….but, like I just told my daughter, the Panacur did not bring good results for my 3 year old dog, when he had this really, really bad as a puppy. It was not until I used the Albon AND the Metronitizole together, that I got a speedy turn-around. But vets are always reluctant to use the Metro, especially on young puppies like this (even mine when he was even quite a bit older than this one is), due to the side affects it can have. While I totally respect that, sometimes you have to consider the affects and lasting illness from not using it. If it were my puppy, I would already be using it…because I keep it on hand. But my daughter doesn’t want to go against the vet. I understand that, because I was in the same spot at one time, but finally listened to my breeder. Within a few days, he was almost back to normal. Before that, I went from vet to vet, and nothing worked. The poor puppy was very, very sick for the first 4 – 5 months of his life, not to mention the havoc it caused in my life, but I finally got to the point I thought I would lose him. Thank goodness for my very involved and caring breeder, because what she had been telling me all along, worked!

My daughter now has the puppy since she’s not working for the next 4 days. She is also seeing what I’ve been talking about, still and again, very loose stools, very little, if any water consumption, decreased energy and playfulness with much more sleeping than before. I told her to call the vet again, since she had told me if he’s not getting better by weeks end, she will probably go with the Metronitizole. So, I’m waiting to see if she’s going to finally give in.

This Giardia and Coccidia, together, if not just even one by itself, is absolutely a nightmare for pet owners and their poor little victims. I’m not so sure that my adult dog, even at 3 years old, hasn’t suffered or acquired some health issues from all he went through. It’s just horrible! Another reason against any future puppies! And who knows how many of them end up suffering with this, on and on, at the hands of uncaring or irresponsible breeders or pet owners. Very sad.

So thanks for your response….was nice talking with you.

[Akari_32]

It’s up to you, Aleksandra. It’s just like some people continue to use Diamond. Personal preference, really. That’s a great deal on Nutrisca, though! Wholly cow. I think it’s right up there with Blue Buffalo and Innova in cost here, and no coupons (except for some $3 ones once). And no sales. Never seen it seen on sale in stores.

It saddens me that your 11 pound dogs eats as much as my 8 pound dog >.< Bentley can’t help he’s a hyper active lunatic D: lol

That’s probably it, Sandy. Too many china things to remember! Dogswell brand food is sold in Publix, and it looks good on paper, but I beleive I read somewhere about it being basically like an other Diamond product, with iffy ingredients and I think improper labeling or something? And it sports a little Made in the USA flag, while some of ingredients are not sourced in the states at all. Oh, marketing, you so silly.

Thanks Marie 🙂 Those were at the top of my list, the bottom being I think Natures Recipe and Canidae. I plan on trying everything at least once, and see how it goes. I may go back through and take out any fish ones, as Bentley doesn’t like fish. Or I may just say sucks to be him and he can eat it anyways LOL

[beaglemom]

Mom2Cavs – I completely understand. For 6 years I fed what the vet told me to feed and I vaccinated with what they told me to vaccinate. In addition – my vet likes to make up some story about how they like to give the 3-year rabies booster every 2 years “just to be safe.” Um, what?! After spending enough time here on DFA and other natural dog care sites I am so done with that crap – and now I feel like I spend more time educating the docs when I go in then they spend educating me… but I’m paying them. Go figure. The latest stunt they pulled was with my older boy that I knew had had a vaccine reaction in the past but didn’t know to which one (because his previous owners were… not good). They took him back to draw blood and when he was brought back I was told “oh the doctor said to go ahead and give him an injection of Benedryl to get him started before the vaccines”. At the time I was annoyed but it didn’t really sink in til i saw my invoice — that injection cost $26! almost double the cost of the rabies vaccine itself! And they never even consulted me! I went home furious, called the office and was put on the phone with the smooth-talking doc who insisted that it was “in his best interest” and “that’s what we do with all dogs who have had a reaction”. I said – not with my dog! You do not inject him with *anything* without consulting me first and certainly not something for $26! They make out great! — now, even though they don’t know which vaccine caused his reaction, every TWO years (“to be safe”) they want me to pay ~15 for the vaccine PLUS $26 for Benedryl. Needless to say, even though I had to push through to the office manager to get it, they did issue me a credit and noted my wishes in my dogs’ files. Sorry for the rant and thank you for reading 🙂 It’s just live and learn I guess… I regret the 6 years I spent not knowing any better, like you, but now we DO know and we aren’t getting pushed around any longer. I’m glad you were able to switch to a vet you can trust — I’m having a lot of trouble finding a holistic vet around me.

Marie – I know, I used to be one of those people (see above!). That’s interesting that your one dog made it to 10 with nothing. The rabies is unfortunate though 🙁

[DogFoodie]

Hi guys,

I’m a fellow Golden owner and my pup, Sam, is almost 18 months old.

First of all, I have to say that Goldens are a large breed puppy and they have special dietary needs as a result.

I strongly suggest that you visit this thread in the DFA forum area as it has lots of great information about the special needs of a large breed puppy: /forums/topic/large-and-giant-breed-puppy-nutrition/

Here’s a great list of foods recommended for growing large breed pups, like both of yours:https://docs.google.com/file/d/0BwApI_dhlbnFQXNYZW01VzRVV00/edit?usp=sharing&pli=1

NutriSource makes a LBP formula with an appropriate Calcium level ,that is grain inclusive, that’s very well-tolerated by pups with sensitive stomachs. NutriSource is a good quality, budget friendly food that’s generally easy to find in the stores and online. You won’t see it in the list that I gave you because it’s grain inclusive though and the list consists entirely of grain free foods. You can, and should, offer fresh additional sources of protein, such as tinned sardines.

You must carefully choose a food with an appropriate Calcium level to avoid excess bone growth while yours is a fast growing puppy. Excessive bone growth contributes to skeletal disorders including hip dysplasia. In addition to controlling Calcium, keep your pup lean and avoid overfeeding and over-exercising.

Once your pup reaches at least 80% of his adult size, Calcium isn’t nearly the concern it is when he’s a puppy.

• This reply was modified 12 years, 1 month ago by DogFoodie.

[pacer1978]

Thank you everyone for the suggestions. They are very helpful. I actually just purchased Primal Freeze Dried Turkey and Sardine Formula for Dogs, so I’m not sure “raw” that is. I should get that shipment in tomorrow and looking forward to how it goes. However, I do have two concerns, so maybe someone can help with that.

If I do incorporate some raw…how do I ensure I’m not overfeeding? I have one dog, Lucy (30-40 lbs) that is considered a little…shall we say, “chunky”. I’m trying to get her weight down a little since she isn’t very tall. She is a bit overweight, so I cut back on the coconut oil and kibble I give her as well. I am also getting Fromm weight management and will try that with her, but I’m concerned if I incorporate kibble in addition to a bit of raw, then I’m feeding her too much. Also, I know eating raw food is disgusting and unhealthy for us humans…but, I am still a bit concerned giving it to them. How do they not get sick from it? I understand the whole “related to wolves thing” and they can break it down where we can’t, but since they have been domesticated for so long, could raw be bad for them in any way? I’d hate to try this and be like one case in the article I read where one lady’s dog got severely sick from it and had major issues.

[theBCnut]

There is soooo much more than coccidia that can cause bloody diarrhea in a puppy, and much of it fatal if not caught early, so kudos to you for taking this seriously. I would get a puppy formula or goats milk to add to his food, enough to make it like a thin paste, not liquid, not solid. I wouldn’t change foods right now, unless he is on something really bad. His poor system has already been through enough. I would add both probiotics and digestive enzymes to every meal until he is stable, and for at least a copule weeks after that.

[Mom2Cavs]

If you are not adverse to shopping online, then most foods are available online. Some offer free shipping and often there are sales.

If I were you, I would first go to my local pet stores (or stores where you will be purchasing your pups food) and look to see what they have. Talk to the clerks (note that some will be more knowledgeable than others, so beware of this) to see what they recommend. Tell them you are looking for a 4-5 star type food for a large breed puppy that has no corn, wheat, soy, artificial preservatives, menadione. There are puppy foods and there are all-life-stage foods that will work. Let them know if you want to feed grain or gluten free. They ought to be able to point you in the right direction. Then you can read the labels on bags and If you find something there you are interested in then come to this site and look it up to see how it’s rated, etc. You could then ask on the forum who makes it, any recalls, etc.

One important thing to note is that you are getting a large breed puppy and they need special nutrition in order to grow correctly. I don’t have large breeds, but there is a thread on this forum that lists appropriate large breed puppy foods. You must use a food with the correct amount of calcium to phosphorus ratio. I believe it’s no more than 1.5/1.0….and this is dry matter, not as fed. I know that’s probably confusing, too, so it’s nice to just have the thread that does list foods that are appropriate.

I know this response seems jumbled but I am writing things down as they come into my head LOL….sorry about that. I hope it helps you some. 🙂

[DogFoodie]

Hi Nancy,

Poor puppy! By now you’ve probably already headed to the vet with the little guy and there are certainly people here far more knowledgeable about this kind of thing than I would be…,

Not that I’m in anyway an advocate of Royal Canin products, but what about the Royal Canin starter mousse? http://www.royalcanin.us/products/products/dog-products/size-health-nutrition/starter-mousse. I know I saw that just the other day at the pet food store and imagine it’s readily available at lots of places. What about a high quality canned food? I would feed him something soft and wet over kibble for sure.

I know that weaning is supposed to be a gradual process that takes place over the course of several weeks and it sounds like the weaning took place way too fast; and, he’s had a lot of chemicals pumped into his tiny body already in the way of shots and wormers so that’s likely part of the problem. He really shouldn’t have come home before eight weeks, but you already know that. He’s getting off to a rocky start, but it sounds like he’s in caring hands. Please let us know how he’s doing.

[Tom]

That’s the best description I can come up with at the moment for your site! My first visit in anticipation of picking up our German Shephard puppy. A suggestion that would really help those of us who are not mega-researchers (and if this is already available here it simply proves my skill level) is: Could a spreadsheet be compiled that would show retail price (ranked high to low or vice-versa), retail, and online sale availability? As much as we all love our pets there are always budgetary constraints that must be considered. There are so many names here (124 five star puppy recommendations) that I have never heard of, and I would have to research each name to find if it is available in my part of US, or where to buy online. This would be a great help!

[ransom]

Hi Everyone, I just registered in the hope that I could get some advise. I have 2 dogs: a 9y/o whippet and 9/yo Jack Russell. No health issues . I have for the first time ever been feeding a regular grocery store dog food for several years and I just have to switch to something I feel is healthier. I asked the advise of a fellow whippet owner whose dogs are also older and in great condition. She uses Arcana Wild Prairie (chicken); Instinct Raw by Natures Variety chicken medallions and Tiki canned. I’m going to try to ease into this starting with the Arcana dry but there are many horror stories about serious, lasting GI disturbances from the switch to this food. I’ve had dogs for many decades and switched foods many times without incident but it seems from what I’ve read that switching to grain free, high protein can be tricky???
So….if you have any experience, cautions, or advise for me, I’d appreciate it.

[Dolly]

Okay thank you both! I read about coconut oil and do plan to use it. Are there any other meats I can use in small amounts? I bought chicken liver yesterday while at the store but just read that they may be too high in fat? She’s a 50lb dog, so I think I might be ok adding in small amounts every few days, but I honestly have no idea, I haven’t ate meat or had to cook it for anyone since I was a young teenager, so I’m sort of lost here.. I’m also wondering if there are any safe bones I can use to help her clean her teeth. I was feeding bully sticks and Z bones but I am having trouble finding bully sticks that I know are sourced in the US and they stopped selling the Z bones at any of the pet stores around here- any other ideas here? I can’t do anything like antlers, the bully sticks are even a little hard for her to chew..

[mix123]

Hi All. I have a 4 month old frenchie. When we first got her she was on Acana Puppy so we kept her on that up until about a week ago. We were giving her a cup a day. Her poops were pretty runny and she was pooping alot. Last week they got really bad with lots of gas. So we put her on a bland diet for 2 days of pumpkin, chicken and rice and her stools firmed right back up.

Went to the dog food store and talked to the guy there and he told us that Acana and Orijen is too high in protein for most house dogs and usually only recommends it to people with farm dogs. So he recommended we try something with a little less protein. We went with First Mate All Life Stages BlueBerry and Chicken. We had already started putting her back on the Acana slowly by mixing it into the bland food diet we were feeding her. So we just started giving her a mix of Acana and the new food mixed with pumpkin for a few days. We have now switched her over completely to the First Mate and still mixing it with pumpkin and giving her some yogurt for a treat mid days. Seems to be going good.

http://www.firstmate.com/dog-food/grain-free/chicken-with-blueberries/

Here are my questions…

– The First Mate recommended feeding say feed a dog her size 1/4-1/3cup a day and the guy atthe store recommended the same. We’ve been giving her a cup…. Why do they recommend so low?
– Should we keep feeding her pumpkin?
– Is yogurt a good idea?

Thanks In Advance for the info

[InkedMarie]

Molzy, I understand what you said, LOL. We adopted a senior sheltie in January, she came to us with no teeth. No big deal, we fed The Honest Kitchen, dehydrated so no issue, right? Wrong! Turns out she constipates easily & lost weight so we had to buy a different THK product than what we have here and the canned food we already had….no can do, wrong calories/fat/fiber ratios. We just roll with it.

[Naturella]

Marie, no problem. I am actually happy that you care so much about my (and others’) dog/s. 🙂

What you have seen that person ask for in the facebook group is horrible, they could have at least tried to gift the dog to kind people, who may agree to take it in and treat it, so I understand where you are coming from.

I have been checking Bruno’s stool, so far good stool and good BMs. I will continue to do so intil Friday – by then the bones, or any remnants of them SHOULD have passed if his stool is still as good and his BMs regular, I believe.

I think he may just have a hair in his throat because he keeps wheezing/coughing every now and again. Sometimes he pulls strings off his bed when he’s still awake in it, but hasn’t done it over the night, not that we know of, he is usually a sound sleeper unless he hears noise. So it may well be something in his throat that I can’t see that irritates him. But now he is happy, playful, running around playing with my roommate’s dog, and has finally eaten his kibble.

Patty, I will try the bread thing – I did give him some in the morning, but I will give him a little bit a couple more times today before we go to bed (small amounts), just in case, and keep checking for the bones. Thanks for the advice!

[Naturella]

Hello, everyone…

So, I am in a bit of a pickle…

As much as I have educated myself on good (raw) and bad (cooked) bones to give my dog, yesterday at about 3.15pm I gave him a medium rack of smoked lamb ribs. He cleared most of the meat off the bones first, and then proceeded to eat them too… I was watching him the whole time, and as soon as I saw a sharp edge on one of the bones, I took them away. He kind of burped and his tummy rumbled, but he seemed fine (last time he had such bones, it was barbecue pork rib ends, and he threw them up). Later he had his kibble, water, treat, he was playful and normal. He went to sleep okay.

At around 7.22am he woke me and my boyfriend up with loud wheezing/dry-heaving… He looked like he was trying to cough or throw something up, but either couldn’t, or there was nothing in his tummy to cough/throw up… After about 2 minutes it stopped. He was not interested in water, and seemed tired and miserable. Wheezing didn’t stop completely, just significantly reduced. He then slept another hour while I was researching intestinal punctures and bleeding symptoms in dogs…

After my boyfriend went to work, I woke the puppy up and checked his mouth to see if I can see a hair or something in his throat. I didn’t see any. He was wheezing every now and again, so I went to the kitchen and mixed plain yoghurt with canned pumpkin puree, and fed him that on bread pieces. He consumed eagerly about 2/3 slice of whole wheat bread and about 1/6 cup of yoghurt-pumpkin mixture. My idea behind it was to introduce good bacteria and probiotics (yoghurt) in his system; get his tummy tightened up and calmed down (pumpkin), and push any hair (if it was there to begin with) down his throat (bread). It didn’t seem to do much about the wheezing, which is not as bad as at 7.22am at all, but it is still there. He had good appetite for the above items. Oh, when he’s asleep, the wheezing is not there, his breathing is good. He also stretches just fine and doesn’t coil up after, which leads me to believe that he is not in pain…

He still looked weak and miserable, so we laid down together for a bit (he is a snuggler), but I am too nervous to lay down, so I got up to post this and ask for help/advice.

Here is the thing. I have $28.00 in my account, so IF possible, I would like to avoid taking him to the vet. Of course, I read that I need to monitor him and his stool, and if he is coughing/throwing up/pooping blood, we will be at the vet in no time anyway. A lot of websites said to wait and see.
My question is, how long is okay to wait, and how long is too long? Is there any way for me to know if his tummy is intact? I felt around it and he was still, didn’t seem in pain, but looks under the weather… He just kinda woke up but he’s not his usual perky self… Just laying down looking at me…
He is a 7.5-month (or so) old Miniature Rat Terrier-Jack Russell-(Deer )Chihuahua mix (a guess – he was found at 2-3 months (or so) old, so we’re not sure what he is). He weighs about 11 lbs, and the bones he ate I would estimate at 1/8 cup or so.

If Dr. Mike can maybe comment and help me out, or any of you guys, who have some knowledge on the matter, I would greatly appreciate it!

P.S. NEVER feeding cooked bones ever again! I promise!

[RescueDaneMom]

Shawna, thank you again for the info! I will give those Bravo meats a try when we run out of Thrive. There’s a really great independent pet store 30 min drive from me that carries THK, Bravo, Primal, and other great brands.

My parents are usually the ones feeding Dozer. I don’t think they’ll go for the raw egg. I don’t know if Dozer would eat raw egg. We’ve given him eggs cooked over easy and he wasn’t overly thrilled. Max, on the other hand, LOVES eggs.

I just bought six cans of Tripett the last time I was at the store. Max loves it. Dozer does too. We gave Dozer some of the green beef tripe with duck and salmon to entice him to eat his food and pills after a rough chemo treatment.

I just started to try different supplements for Max’s arthritis. In addition to his Glucosamine, MSM, Chondroitin, & ASU combo, he is getting an herbal supplement that has boswellia, cat’s claw, tart cherry, and white willow. I was going to try a bromelain/curcumin combo next.

Marie, I didn’t know there was a ‘concierge club.’ I’ve ordered it from Chewy and Petflow. Recently I’ve been getting it from a reseller who also carries the Primal frozen grinds. She emails me when she’s ready to order and I give her my order and I get it the next week. It’s been pretty convenient. Plus her prices are better than the independent pet store where I used to buy it from. No overhead I guess as she sells it out of her house.

Thanks again for all the feedback. Y’all are awesome!!! 🙂

[Shawna]

Hi Cyndi and RescueDaneMom,

Usually I’m not able to log in to the forums but it let me today so….. 🙂

I REALLY like Dr. Dressler but really don’t like grains in a dog’s food.. I’d much rather see you feeding THK and adding high protein meat or canned toppers. If you want to add extra vitamin E I personally would use red palm oil as it has a form of vitamin E that is been researched to be more cancer fighting than alpha-tocopherol. You can buy the oil or can buy a supplement that utilizes the oil. HOWEVER, I’ve also read that high amounts of vitamin E can be detrimental in certain types of cancer. UGHHH Lymphoma seems to be one that supplemental vitamin E provides benefits for though (those that may read this dealing with other types of cancer need to check for their specific type of cancer) http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8272150

There are foods that are known to kill cancer cells as well — garlic, turmeric and the enzyme bromelain from pineapples induce apoptosis and causes rogue cells to commit suicide as an example (because of the sugar content of pineapple, I would give bromelain as a supplement (away from meals) instead of pineapple itself). Turmeric is inexpensive but do use ONLY organic turmeric if you decide to use it as many spices are irradiated damaging the benefits. Turmeric can be added to other powdered supplements and sprinkled right on the food.

Certain foods also are known to cut off the blood supply to cancers and thus starving the cancer to death (this is called antiangiogenosis). Turmeric, garlic, blueberries, apples, certain mushrooms and more can all do this.. The more foods you feed that are antiangiogenic the better the outcome as they are believed to be synergistic and work better together. This is a list of foods that cause antiangiogenosis http://blog.ted.com/2010/02/10/dr_william_lis/ (some are not appropriate for dogs (like grapes)).

If you are interested at all in more data on antiangiogenosis, human oncologist Dr. William Li has an EXCELLENT Ted TV video on it. The title of the video is “Can we eat to starve cancer.” It can be found here http://www.ted.com/talks/william_li.html

PS — I’m in the group that think “synthetic” vitamins have minimal positive affect on the body. I’d much rather see foods high in nutrients and, if needed, whole food vitamin supplements be used. I don’t think the supplement your vet gave you will hurt, just don’t think it will help as much as those found in food. I would also give an enzyme supplement with each meal.

Dozer is certainly in all our prayers and thoughts for a speedy and full recovery!!!!!!

• This reply was modified 12 years, 1 month ago by Shawna.

[Cyndi]

I posted a link to this thread in the review section for Shawna. She is one of the very knowledgeable people on here that could probably help.

[RescueDaneMom]

My mom has a 7 year old neutered male rottweiler (Dozer) with lymphoma. He has been undergoing chemo treatments and is doing well. He was diagnosed in February and here we are 8 months later. He has been eating The Honest Kitchen Embark and Thrive. I’ve been making homemade food for a topper so he doesn’t get bored on the two formulas. His last chemo treatment was a little rougher than the others and he didn’t want to eat his THK. I found the cancer diet by Dr. Dressler and made that for him. He loved it! We’ve been feeding him that for the past two weeks because he had one treatment that only lasted for a week and then needed another treatment that will least 3 weeks before he needs to go back to the vet. He’s doing much better now so I’m thinking about reintroducing THK to see if he’ll eat it again.

The vet put him on a multivitamin that they make to make sure he was getting enough iron. My question is: Is the multivitamin from the vet adequate for making the homemade food complete and balanced?

The Cancer Diet Recipe:
2.5-3 lbs lean meat, simmered with water on low heat
1-2 lbs cooked brown rice or oatmeal
0.5-0.75 lbs veggies cooked and pureed
0.5-0.67 lbs chopped, cooked liver
1-1.5 cups cottage cheese
2 skinless chicken necks, chopped and boiled (I used gizzards because I had them on hand)
0.75 tsp salt substitute
4-5 grams oyster shell calcium (I’ve been using calcium acetate at 800-1000mg Ca/lb of meat)
16,000-18,000mg EFAs (krill or fish oil)*

*Note: he hasn’t been getting any additional EFAs. My mom gets flustered having to add so many things to his food but I’ve convinced her he needs them. I ordered Carlson’s Salmon Oil Complete from Swanson’s per HDM’s recommendation. How much should he be getting per day? I’ve read differing opinions. He weighs 110lbs. I also just started giving him canned sardines in spring water with no salt added (New Brunswick brand). How many times per week do you think I should give them to him? I mixed in a 3.75oz can with his dinner last night and he loved it!

I’ve also been adding 1 tsp of flax oil per pound of meat because all Dozer will eat is chicken or turkey. He doesn’t tolerate beef well. He throws up if he eats too much of it.

He is also getting 2 capsules of Dr. Langer’s probiotics daily because he is getting 2000mg of cephalexin (2-500mg capsules 2x day). He has been on antibiotics for the last two weeks and will be on them until we see the vet again in two more weeks.

Analysis of the Multivitamin: per 1 soft chew. Dozer gets 2 per day.
iron (amino acid chelate): 3mg
copper (copper acetate): 0.1mg
manganese (manganese sulfate): 0.25mg
zin (zinc oxide): 1.4mg
vitamin D3: 150 iu
vitamin A (as acetate): 1500 iu
vitamin E (as d-alpha tocopherol): 15 iu
vitamin B1 (thiamin mononitrate): 0.24mg
vitamin B2 (riboflavin): 0.65mg
pantothenic acid (calcium d-pantothenate): 0.68mg
niacin (niacinamide): 3.4mg
vitamin B6 (pyroxidine): 0.24mg
folic acid: 50mcg
vitamin B12 (cyanocobalamin): 7mcg
choline (choline chloride):40mg
biotin: 15mcg
vitamin C (ascorbic acid): 3mg
vitamin K1 (phytonadione): 4mcg

I think I should be giving him more vitamin E right? Anything else I should add supplement wise? He shouldn’t need anything else if I start feeding this with THK again, right?

Thank you in advance for the feedback. I appreciate it.

-Caroline

[Oceans11]

Thank you Pattyvaughn and pugmomsandy for the tips and your encouragement. I found out the breeder is feeding our pup Origen Puppy kibble along with Grizzly Salmon. I am going to feed Nature’s Instinct Raw frozen medallions alternating with Nature’s Variety Dry kibble Duck and Turkey and maybe throw in a little Nature’s Variety canned food to mix it up. I read somewhere on this website that Nature’s Variety is good for all life stages so ok to feed to a 10 week old puppy.

[pugmomsandy]

pacer1978

Since you’ve already introduced raw into the diet, just try out a raw meaty bone and see how they do. I have small dogs and started with chicken wings and necks. And then went to chicken legs. I do have 2 that chomp their bones pretty well and one that does a so-so job at it but in 2 years of raw meaty bones, he hasn’t had any issues. You can attach a large vice clamp onto a RMB or tie part of it to a broom stick or something like that so he can’t gulp the whole thing down and hopefully learns to not gulp. If gulping is a problem, then I would feed grinds and nothing harder than chicken bones. I would say that chicken necks and duck necks and very small turkey necks (about 1 inch diameter or less) are ok to slightly gulp down. This is what my 30 lb dog does! You can always whack the neck with a hammer first. If you want to incorporate raw and still feed kibble and other commercial products, then I would suggest chicken, turkey or duck necks 3 times a week and then maybe a couple meals of just ground meats/organ/calcium supplement (or commercial raw). Baby back pork ribs are also easy to break so that might be an option too. Frankly, I don’t think there is anything “sharp” in a small poultry neck bone so that might be a good bone for you to use. You can also buy a large leg bone just for them to enjoy chewing on instead of eating it.

[pacer1978]

I’m sorry if these questions were already asked. There are so many posts, that I feel it may just be faster to ask instead of reading through every topic on the forum. I am mostly a kibble type since that is convenient and fast, though I do feed my dogs premium kibble: NV, NP, Earthborn Holistic, and Fromm for instance.

Here are my questions. If I do incorporate raw into their diet, how do I go about doing that? Where do you purchase this from? Is there a butcher you go through? How much does it cost typically? I have stayed away from raw thinking it would be unsanitary and very expensive. Plus, I try not to give my dogs bones since they inhale their food and seem to cough and gag a lot after eating one. My thought is that it gets stuck in their throat. Not to mention, I will come home to a pile of bile with sharp bones in the mix and that freaks me out. I’m afraid the sharp bones will do damage to them. Sometimes I will purchase the NV raw patties and freeze dried food and sprinkle or chop that up into their food, but probably don’t do it often for it to make any difference. I’m sure that their raw food is not the same anyway since it is probably still processed in some way.
I know many of you here believe 100% in the raw diet, but I remember when I first investigated it, I had read articles that didn’t support it. One lady explained how she switched to raw and her dog ended up extremely sick with contamination. Any ideas on that? I feel right now with supplements, treats, and premium kibble I am spending so much on their food as it is. I want the best for my dogs, however. I feel you shouldn’t take them on if you can’t provide for them the best you can. Who knows…maybe the raw is cheaper than what I’m spending right now. On the other hand, I’m the main person that handles the feedings in my house. I doubt on the nights I’m at school my husband will have the patients or agreeableness to feed and deal with raw food. Anyway, just looking for your thoughts on some of these questions. I always thought raw was too difficult to feed since there really isn’t a place for me to purchase this other than my grocery store. For some reason, I figured most people purchased it another way. Thanks for anyone reading!

[RescueDaneMom]

Soprano1-

I am by no means an expert. I would suggest checking out the dogaware website at dogaware.com/health/kidney.html. I haven’t figured out how to post links yet so bear with me.

According to my research on dogaware, dogs with early stage kidney disease only need slight diet modifications. The following text is copied from the website:
“Early Renal Insufficiency: In general, creatinine values up to about 2.0 (177 µmol/L) are indicative of mild, or early stage, kidney disease (or early renal insufficiency, as my vet terms it). In cases like these, it may still help to make dietary modifications to reduce phosphorus if blood phosphorus level is above 4.5, but these reductions do not need to be as drastic as when the values are higher, and it is probably not necessary to do other treatments at this stage, such as sub-q fluids (unless your dog is drinking so much that she is having trouble staying hydrated, such as getting up during the night to drink). Adding calcium to each meal if you are feeding a home made diet (to act as a phosphorus binder) would be advisable, and possibly antacids, particularly if your dog is showing any signs of inappetence or gastric problems. I would also give fish oil supplements (body oil, NOT liver oil), at the rate of 1,000 mg (300 mg combined DHA and EPA) per 10 lbs of body weight, along with Vitamin E (50, 100 or 200 IU for small, medium and large dogs), and discontinue any Vitamin A and D supplements (including cod liver oil) added to commercial foods. Additional recommended supplements include a B-complex vitamin and CoQ10, which may be beneficial for dogs with kidney disease.”

There is a table on the website for commercial foods with phosphorous amounts listed. There is only one blue buffalo food on there and it has too much phosphorous. See dogaware.com/health/kidneynonprescription.html

I looked up your previous food (Purina NF) on the same site. It says that food is for Late Stage Kidney Disease. The protein content is 15.9% on a dry matter basis. There are prescription diets that are better suited to Early Stage Kidney Disease. I don’t know why your vet wouldn’t have put your dog on one of those. I think Patty was right and the food was doing more harm than good in your case.

You report that your dog is doing well on Blue right now and you have a recheck in November. If it were me, I would continue to feed Blue and see what her values are at the recheck. If her creatinine and BUN are slightly elevated, I would consider switching to one of the foods on the list of non-prescription foods. My choice would be the Wellness Complete Health Super5Mix Chicken Recipe and/or Wellness Complete Health Super5Mix Whitefish & Sweet Potato.

I hope this is helpful. Again, I would really recommend checking out the dogaware site. There is so much information available. I would read through it before going to your recheck in November so you can be prepared.

[pugmomsandy]

Many dog food manufacturers make several different brands and different flavors, not just Blue. As far as balance of nutrients are concerned, yes Blue is not perfect. There is no perfect one. So to minimize deficiencies or overages, rotate in another brand or two. This should minimize risk. I think those life source bits aren’t evenly distributed or eaten evenly so I can understand why he says that about blue and they did have a recall in 2010 for too much vitamin D. I’ve bought 2 dog foods already that have had a different kibble in the bag from a different recipe. It happens. Few and far between but it does.

[pugmomsandy]

There are several good choices to choose from but since he’s only eaten one food for 3 years, it could take some time (weeks to months) to transition him off, but don’t let that discourage you. Get a good multi-strain probiotic to help seed his gut with a more diverse population since his gut is only used to digestion RC. Since he’s eating grain right now, there are some other good grain products that are gluten free like Nutrisource small/med puppy (yes for your old guy, it’s for all life stages). If you’re confused about that statement, we can discuss it some more. Also there is Nature’s Logic, Nature’s Select Hi-Pro, Merrick Classic, Solid Gold Sundancer, Acana (might have gluten contamination in the oats). For grain free small kibble options, there is Amicus and Instinct (but I wouldn’t try this one yet, it would be too much for him, way too different from RC), Merrick grain free and Nutrisource grain free. I would suggest Amicus or Nutrisource grain free Heartland Select for grain free starters because they are “medium” range. Instinct and Merrick grain free are “high”. Start by adding just 20% of new food to his RC and don’t increase the new food until he has satisfactory output, however long that takes. At his age, I would strongly think about adding canned food to his diet (if you’re not already) or making it the majority of his diet. It is “a step up” from kibble.

http://healthypets.mercola.com/sites/healthypets/archive/2012/06/20/aging-pet-food.aspx

http://healthypets.mercola.com/sites/healthypets/archive/2011/05/05/surprising-findings-from-tufts-study-of-37-senior-dog-foods.aspx

• This reply was modified 12 years, 2 months ago by pugmomsandy.

[Akari_32]

I found a great $2 off any Prosense pet product, so I decided to try the fish oil for Bentley’s suspected grass allergies (it’s not chicken, it’s not grains, so maybe grass?) and the senior vitamins for Haley’s weight (we can’t possibly shove anymore food down this dogs throat, as she just can’t physically eat much more than 5 cups).

Bentley’s been on the fish oil for a few months, and it does actually seem to help him some. We’ve also been wiping his paws and tummy off after being outdoors with a baby wipe, and trying to give him a weekly bath. And, which I haven’t tried yet, I found hot spot shampoo of the same brand on clearence for $3 (use the coupon and it’s only a buck :D).

Haley, at just 65 pounds of ideal weight, eats 4-5 cups a day. She’s maybe 2-3 pounds underweight, healthy otherwise. The vet had her on vitamins last year durring some medical treatment, but she’s since been off them. Pretty much boils down to her being old at this point, and not being able to metabolize food as efficiently. Shes been on these Prosense Senior vitamins for a few days and I do already see her gaining energy, at least.

Regular feeding, for all three of the dogs, consists of 8-9 cups of dry food mixed with a 13 oz can of wet food, and usually an egg thrown in, as well. This is obviously divided up in appropriate amounts for each dog. The whole feeding routine has been made up specifically for Haley, as straight dry food really upsets her stomach, in an indigestible sort of way. Even if it’s just moistened with some water, it helps her tremendously. Poor girls got tummy troubles lol

I was wondering about these senior vitamins: they seem really high in calcium, which I’ve heard mixed things about for older dogs. I’ll get exact numbers in the morning, as I’m in bed now, but it’s several times higher than the adult formula. I want to say its 4-5% though.

This brand is only available at WalMart (locally, at least) from what I’ve seen. Not that I really have much problem with that. I don’t particularly like WalMart, but I’ll do what I have to.

Also, side note while were here, and I feel it’ll be brought up at some point– you guys know those powder Centrum probiotics for people? Would something like that he beneficial in Haley’s case? Doesn’t have to be that brand or kind, either. Anything along those lines. Just know I’m not made of money 😉

[GSDsForever]

Worth a quick read & considering . . .

These ingredients could be ingredients directly contaminated in commercial kibble and canned dog foods or homemade, or could be indirect hazards in animal feeds in the meats.

http://www.livestrong.com/slideshow/1007800-11-banned-food-ingredients-still-allowed-us/

I’m American, but I often like European standards better regarding additives, labeling, GMOs, even dioxin levels in grass fed dairy/meat. Funny, this article reminds me of why I just bought KerryGold Dubliner cheese (grass fed, from Ireland) vs. organic cheese from the U.S., at Costco, to share with my dog as a treat. Often, the safer, cleaner choice. Huge 2.5 lb blocks on sale there right now.

[GSDsForever]

Mike,

The site shows me logged in here and able to post a new topic for other forums, but not the Dog Food Ingredients one.

There it just repeatedly tells me I must log in and must be logged in to create a new topic. But every time I type in my user name and password and hit submit or enter, it just refreshes and treats it as though I didn’t log in or attempt to either. It looks like it will let me reply to something else there, like another thread topic, only.

Anyway, I just want to post an interesting article w/link on US sourced ingredients that might pose dangers in commercial foods or homemade, whether directly or indirectly through animal feed in meat sources. So, that seemed the appropriate forum, creating it as a new topic/thread. Can you look into this please? Maybe a system glitch? Thanks.

When I have time, I’ll try to come back and post it in another forum here, I guess, like off topic. Haven’t had time to post/reply on this site recently.

[dmmal]

Hello from Canada
I am french so my writing english could be not the best so excuse my spelling/ grammar mistakes.
I have read the 43 pages and decided to register. Definitely valuable information. What I have learned and knew nothing about is rotation of food. So now I would like to start my puppy who is 7 months on this new regime of rotation. He has been on Orijen puppy food for large breed since he was 10 weeks. I have bought” Now Fresh” puppy food for large breed. Wondering which other puppy food or all life stages food I could add that are available in Canada. Questions for the ones who are experts in this:
1- how many type of food can I add?
2- how do I do the transition, is one week enough to change from one brand to another one when puppy has been on only one food for the last 5 months?
3- I would like to keep buying the biggest bags. So when there will be one week left of food in the bag can I mix it with another brand of food and when this one is almost empty start the transition again and keep doing this.

Thanks