[DogFoodie]

Hi guys,

I’m a fellow Golden owner and my pup, Sam, is almost 18 months old.

First of all, I have to say that Goldens are a large breed puppy and they have special dietary needs as a result.

I strongly suggest that you visit this thread in the DFA forum area as it has lots of great information about the special needs of a large breed puppy: /forums/topic/large-and-giant-breed-puppy-nutrition/

Here’s a great list of foods recommended for growing large breed pups, like both of yours:https://docs.google.com/file/d/0BwApI_dhlbnFQXNYZW01VzRVV00/edit?usp=sharing&pli=1

NutriSource makes a LBP formula with an appropriate Calcium level ,that is grain inclusive, that’s very well-tolerated by pups with sensitive stomachs. NutriSource is a good quality, budget friendly food that’s generally easy to find in the stores and online. You won’t see it in the list that I gave you because it’s grain inclusive though and the list consists entirely of grain free foods. You can, and should, offer fresh additional sources of protein, such as tinned sardines.

You must carefully choose a food with an appropriate Calcium level to avoid excess bone growth while yours is a fast growing puppy. Excessive bone growth contributes to skeletal disorders including hip dysplasia. In addition to controlling Calcium, keep your pup lean and avoid overfeeding and over-exercising.

Once your pup reaches at least 80% of his adult size, Calcium isn’t nearly the concern it is when he’s a puppy.

• This reply was modified 12 years, 5 months ago by DogFoodie.

[pacer1978]

Thank you everyone for the suggestions. They are very helpful. I actually just purchased Primal Freeze Dried Turkey and Sardine Formula for Dogs, so I’m not sure “raw” that is. I should get that shipment in tomorrow and looking forward to how it goes. However, I do have two concerns, so maybe someone can help with that.

If I do incorporate some raw…how do I ensure I’m not overfeeding? I have one dog, Lucy (30-40 lbs) that is considered a little…shall we say, “chunky”. I’m trying to get her weight down a little since she isn’t very tall. She is a bit overweight, so I cut back on the coconut oil and kibble I give her as well. I am also getting Fromm weight management and will try that with her, but I’m concerned if I incorporate kibble in addition to a bit of raw, then I’m feeding her too much. Also, I know eating raw food is disgusting and unhealthy for us humans…but, I am still a bit concerned giving it to them. How do they not get sick from it? I understand the whole “related to wolves thing” and they can break it down where we can’t, but since they have been domesticated for so long, could raw be bad for them in any way? I’d hate to try this and be like one case in the article I read where one lady’s dog got severely sick from it and had major issues.

[theBCnut]

There is soooo much more than coccidia that can cause bloody diarrhea in a puppy, and much of it fatal if not caught early, so kudos to you for taking this seriously. I would get a puppy formula or goats milk to add to his food, enough to make it like a thin paste, not liquid, not solid. I wouldn’t change foods right now, unless he is on something really bad. His poor system has already been through enough. I would add both probiotics and digestive enzymes to every meal until he is stable, and for at least a copule weeks after that.

[Mom2Cavs]

If you are not adverse to shopping online, then most foods are available online. Some offer free shipping and often there are sales.

If I were you, I would first go to my local pet stores (or stores where you will be purchasing your pups food) and look to see what they have. Talk to the clerks (note that some will be more knowledgeable than others, so beware of this) to see what they recommend. Tell them you are looking for a 4-5 star type food for a large breed puppy that has no corn, wheat, soy, artificial preservatives, menadione. There are puppy foods and there are all-life-stage foods that will work. Let them know if you want to feed grain or gluten free. They ought to be able to point you in the right direction. Then you can read the labels on bags and If you find something there you are interested in then come to this site and look it up to see how it’s rated, etc. You could then ask on the forum who makes it, any recalls, etc.

One important thing to note is that you are getting a large breed puppy and they need special nutrition in order to grow correctly. I don’t have large breeds, but there is a thread on this forum that lists appropriate large breed puppy foods. You must use a food with the correct amount of calcium to phosphorus ratio. I believe it’s no more than 1.5/1.0….and this is dry matter, not as fed. I know that’s probably confusing, too, so it’s nice to just have the thread that does list foods that are appropriate.

I know this response seems jumbled but I am writing things down as they come into my head LOL….sorry about that. I hope it helps you some. 🙂

[DogFoodie]

Hi Nancy,

Poor puppy! By now you’ve probably already headed to the vet with the little guy and there are certainly people here far more knowledgeable about this kind of thing than I would be…,

Not that I’m in anyway an advocate of Royal Canin products, but what about the Royal Canin starter mousse? http://www.royalcanin.us/products/products/dog-products/size-health-nutrition/starter-mousse. I know I saw that just the other day at the pet food store and imagine it’s readily available at lots of places. What about a high quality canned food? I would feed him something soft and wet over kibble for sure.

I know that weaning is supposed to be a gradual process that takes place over the course of several weeks and it sounds like the weaning took place way too fast; and, he’s had a lot of chemicals pumped into his tiny body already in the way of shots and wormers so that’s likely part of the problem. He really shouldn’t have come home before eight weeks, but you already know that. He’s getting off to a rocky start, but it sounds like he’s in caring hands. Please let us know how he’s doing.

[Tom]

That’s the best description I can come up with at the moment for your site! My first visit in anticipation of picking up our German Shephard puppy. A suggestion that would really help those of us who are not mega-researchers (and if this is already available here it simply proves my skill level) is: Could a spreadsheet be compiled that would show retail price (ranked high to low or vice-versa), retail, and online sale availability? As much as we all love our pets there are always budgetary constraints that must be considered. There are so many names here (124 five star puppy recommendations) that I have never heard of, and I would have to research each name to find if it is available in my part of US, or where to buy online. This would be a great help!

[ransom]

Hi Everyone, I just registered in the hope that I could get some advise. I have 2 dogs: a 9y/o whippet and 9/yo Jack Russell. No health issues . I have for the first time ever been feeding a regular grocery store dog food for several years and I just have to switch to something I feel is healthier. I asked the advise of a fellow whippet owner whose dogs are also older and in great condition. She uses Arcana Wild Prairie (chicken); Instinct Raw by Natures Variety chicken medallions and Tiki canned. I’m going to try to ease into this starting with the Arcana dry but there are many horror stories about serious, lasting GI disturbances from the switch to this food. I’ve had dogs for many decades and switched foods many times without incident but it seems from what I’ve read that switching to grain free, high protein can be tricky???
So….if you have any experience, cautions, or advise for me, I’d appreciate it.

[Dolly]

Okay thank you both! I read about coconut oil and do plan to use it. Are there any other meats I can use in small amounts? I bought chicken liver yesterday while at the store but just read that they may be too high in fat? She’s a 50lb dog, so I think I might be ok adding in small amounts every few days, but I honestly have no idea, I haven’t ate meat or had to cook it for anyone since I was a young teenager, so I’m sort of lost here.. I’m also wondering if there are any safe bones I can use to help her clean her teeth. I was feeding bully sticks and Z bones but I am having trouble finding bully sticks that I know are sourced in the US and they stopped selling the Z bones at any of the pet stores around here- any other ideas here? I can’t do anything like antlers, the bully sticks are even a little hard for her to chew..

[mix123]

Hi All. I have a 4 month old frenchie. When we first got her she was on Acana Puppy so we kept her on that up until about a week ago. We were giving her a cup a day. Her poops were pretty runny and she was pooping alot. Last week they got really bad with lots of gas. So we put her on a bland diet for 2 days of pumpkin, chicken and rice and her stools firmed right back up.

Went to the dog food store and talked to the guy there and he told us that Acana and Orijen is too high in protein for most house dogs and usually only recommends it to people with farm dogs. So he recommended we try something with a little less protein. We went with First Mate All Life Stages BlueBerry and Chicken. We had already started putting her back on the Acana slowly by mixing it into the bland food diet we were feeding her. So we just started giving her a mix of Acana and the new food mixed with pumpkin for a few days. We have now switched her over completely to the First Mate and still mixing it with pumpkin and giving her some yogurt for a treat mid days. Seems to be going good.

http://www.firstmate.com/dog-food/grain-free/chicken-with-blueberries/

Here are my questions…

– The First Mate recommended feeding say feed a dog her size 1/4-1/3cup a day and the guy atthe store recommended the same. We’ve been giving her a cup…. Why do they recommend so low?
– Should we keep feeding her pumpkin?
– Is yogurt a good idea?

Thanks In Advance for the info

[InkedMarie]

Molzy, I understand what you said, LOL. We adopted a senior sheltie in January, she came to us with no teeth. No big deal, we fed The Honest Kitchen, dehydrated so no issue, right? Wrong! Turns out she constipates easily & lost weight so we had to buy a different THK product than what we have here and the canned food we already had….no can do, wrong calories/fat/fiber ratios. We just roll with it.

[Naturella]

Marie, no problem. I am actually happy that you care so much about my (and others’) dog/s. 🙂

What you have seen that person ask for in the facebook group is horrible, they could have at least tried to gift the dog to kind people, who may agree to take it in and treat it, so I understand where you are coming from.

I have been checking Bruno’s stool, so far good stool and good BMs. I will continue to do so intil Friday – by then the bones, or any remnants of them SHOULD have passed if his stool is still as good and his BMs regular, I believe.

I think he may just have a hair in his throat because he keeps wheezing/coughing every now and again. Sometimes he pulls strings off his bed when he’s still awake in it, but hasn’t done it over the night, not that we know of, he is usually a sound sleeper unless he hears noise. So it may well be something in his throat that I can’t see that irritates him. But now he is happy, playful, running around playing with my roommate’s dog, and has finally eaten his kibble.

Patty, I will try the bread thing – I did give him some in the morning, but I will give him a little bit a couple more times today before we go to bed (small amounts), just in case, and keep checking for the bones. Thanks for the advice!

[Naturella]

Hello, everyone…

So, I am in a bit of a pickle…

As much as I have educated myself on good (raw) and bad (cooked) bones to give my dog, yesterday at about 3.15pm I gave him a medium rack of smoked lamb ribs. He cleared most of the meat off the bones first, and then proceeded to eat them too… I was watching him the whole time, and as soon as I saw a sharp edge on one of the bones, I took them away. He kind of burped and his tummy rumbled, but he seemed fine (last time he had such bones, it was barbecue pork rib ends, and he threw them up). Later he had his kibble, water, treat, he was playful and normal. He went to sleep okay.

At around 7.22am he woke me and my boyfriend up with loud wheezing/dry-heaving… He looked like he was trying to cough or throw something up, but either couldn’t, or there was nothing in his tummy to cough/throw up… After about 2 minutes it stopped. He was not interested in water, and seemed tired and miserable. Wheezing didn’t stop completely, just significantly reduced. He then slept another hour while I was researching intestinal punctures and bleeding symptoms in dogs…

After my boyfriend went to work, I woke the puppy up and checked his mouth to see if I can see a hair or something in his throat. I didn’t see any. He was wheezing every now and again, so I went to the kitchen and mixed plain yoghurt with canned pumpkin puree, and fed him that on bread pieces. He consumed eagerly about 2/3 slice of whole wheat bread and about 1/6 cup of yoghurt-pumpkin mixture. My idea behind it was to introduce good bacteria and probiotics (yoghurt) in his system; get his tummy tightened up and calmed down (pumpkin), and push any hair (if it was there to begin with) down his throat (bread). It didn’t seem to do much about the wheezing, which is not as bad as at 7.22am at all, but it is still there. He had good appetite for the above items. Oh, when he’s asleep, the wheezing is not there, his breathing is good. He also stretches just fine and doesn’t coil up after, which leads me to believe that he is not in pain…

He still looked weak and miserable, so we laid down together for a bit (he is a snuggler), but I am too nervous to lay down, so I got up to post this and ask for help/advice.

Here is the thing. I have $28.00 in my account, so IF possible, I would like to avoid taking him to the vet. Of course, I read that I need to monitor him and his stool, and if he is coughing/throwing up/pooping blood, we will be at the vet in no time anyway. A lot of websites said to wait and see.
My question is, how long is okay to wait, and how long is too long? Is there any way for me to know if his tummy is intact? I felt around it and he was still, didn’t seem in pain, but looks under the weather… He just kinda woke up but he’s not his usual perky self… Just laying down looking at me…
He is a 7.5-month (or so) old Miniature Rat Terrier-Jack Russell-(Deer )Chihuahua mix (a guess – he was found at 2-3 months (or so) old, so we’re not sure what he is). He weighs about 11 lbs, and the bones he ate I would estimate at 1/8 cup or so.

If Dr. Mike can maybe comment and help me out, or any of you guys, who have some knowledge on the matter, I would greatly appreciate it!

P.S. NEVER feeding cooked bones ever again! I promise!

[RescueDaneMom]

Shawna, thank you again for the info! I will give those Bravo meats a try when we run out of Thrive. There’s a really great independent pet store 30 min drive from me that carries THK, Bravo, Primal, and other great brands.

My parents are usually the ones feeding Dozer. I don’t think they’ll go for the raw egg. I don’t know if Dozer would eat raw egg. We’ve given him eggs cooked over easy and he wasn’t overly thrilled. Max, on the other hand, LOVES eggs.

I just bought six cans of Tripett the last time I was at the store. Max loves it. Dozer does too. We gave Dozer some of the green beef tripe with duck and salmon to entice him to eat his food and pills after a rough chemo treatment.

I just started to try different supplements for Max’s arthritis. In addition to his Glucosamine, MSM, Chondroitin, & ASU combo, he is getting an herbal supplement that has boswellia, cat’s claw, tart cherry, and white willow. I was going to try a bromelain/curcumin combo next.

Marie, I didn’t know there was a ‘concierge club.’ I’ve ordered it from Chewy and Petflow. Recently I’ve been getting it from a reseller who also carries the Primal frozen grinds. She emails me when she’s ready to order and I give her my order and I get it the next week. It’s been pretty convenient. Plus her prices are better than the independent pet store where I used to buy it from. No overhead I guess as she sells it out of her house.

Thanks again for all the feedback. Y’all are awesome!!! 🙂

[Shawna]

Hi Cyndi and RescueDaneMom,

Usually I’m not able to log in to the forums but it let me today so….. 🙂

I REALLY like Dr. Dressler but really don’t like grains in a dog’s food.. I’d much rather see you feeding THK and adding high protein meat or canned toppers. If you want to add extra vitamin E I personally would use red palm oil as it has a form of vitamin E that is been researched to be more cancer fighting than alpha-tocopherol. You can buy the oil or can buy a supplement that utilizes the oil. HOWEVER, I’ve also read that high amounts of vitamin E can be detrimental in certain types of cancer. UGHHH Lymphoma seems to be one that supplemental vitamin E provides benefits for though (those that may read this dealing with other types of cancer need to check for their specific type of cancer) http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8272150

There are foods that are known to kill cancer cells as well — garlic, turmeric and the enzyme bromelain from pineapples induce apoptosis and causes rogue cells to commit suicide as an example (because of the sugar content of pineapple, I would give bromelain as a supplement (away from meals) instead of pineapple itself). Turmeric is inexpensive but do use ONLY organic turmeric if you decide to use it as many spices are irradiated damaging the benefits. Turmeric can be added to other powdered supplements and sprinkled right on the food.

Certain foods also are known to cut off the blood supply to cancers and thus starving the cancer to death (this is called antiangiogenosis). Turmeric, garlic, blueberries, apples, certain mushrooms and more can all do this.. The more foods you feed that are antiangiogenic the better the outcome as they are believed to be synergistic and work better together. This is a list of foods that cause antiangiogenosis http://blog.ted.com/2010/02/10/dr_william_lis/ (some are not appropriate for dogs (like grapes)).

If you are interested at all in more data on antiangiogenosis, human oncologist Dr. William Li has an EXCELLENT Ted TV video on it. The title of the video is “Can we eat to starve cancer.” It can be found here http://www.ted.com/talks/william_li.html

PS — I’m in the group that think “synthetic” vitamins have minimal positive affect on the body. I’d much rather see foods high in nutrients and, if needed, whole food vitamin supplements be used. I don’t think the supplement your vet gave you will hurt, just don’t think it will help as much as those found in food. I would also give an enzyme supplement with each meal.

Dozer is certainly in all our prayers and thoughts for a speedy and full recovery!!!!!!

• This reply was modified 12 years, 5 months ago by Shawna.

[Cyndi]

I posted a link to this thread in the review section for Shawna. She is one of the very knowledgeable people on here that could probably help.

[RescueDaneMom]

My mom has a 7 year old neutered male rottweiler (Dozer) with lymphoma. He has been undergoing chemo treatments and is doing well. He was diagnosed in February and here we are 8 months later. He has been eating The Honest Kitchen Embark and Thrive. I’ve been making homemade food for a topper so he doesn’t get bored on the two formulas. His last chemo treatment was a little rougher than the others and he didn’t want to eat his THK. I found the cancer diet by Dr. Dressler and made that for him. He loved it! We’ve been feeding him that for the past two weeks because he had one treatment that only lasted for a week and then needed another treatment that will least 3 weeks before he needs to go back to the vet. He’s doing much better now so I’m thinking about reintroducing THK to see if he’ll eat it again.

The vet put him on a multivitamin that they make to make sure he was getting enough iron. My question is: Is the multivitamin from the vet adequate for making the homemade food complete and balanced?

The Cancer Diet Recipe:
2.5-3 lbs lean meat, simmered with water on low heat
1-2 lbs cooked brown rice or oatmeal
0.5-0.75 lbs veggies cooked and pureed
0.5-0.67 lbs chopped, cooked liver
1-1.5 cups cottage cheese
2 skinless chicken necks, chopped and boiled (I used gizzards because I had them on hand)
0.75 tsp salt substitute
4-5 grams oyster shell calcium (I’ve been using calcium acetate at 800-1000mg Ca/lb of meat)
16,000-18,000mg EFAs (krill or fish oil)*

*Note: he hasn’t been getting any additional EFAs. My mom gets flustered having to add so many things to his food but I’ve convinced her he needs them. I ordered Carlson’s Salmon Oil Complete from Swanson’s per HDM’s recommendation. How much should he be getting per day? I’ve read differing opinions. He weighs 110lbs. I also just started giving him canned sardines in spring water with no salt added (New Brunswick brand). How many times per week do you think I should give them to him? I mixed in a 3.75oz can with his dinner last night and he loved it!

I’ve also been adding 1 tsp of flax oil per pound of meat because all Dozer will eat is chicken or turkey. He doesn’t tolerate beef well. He throws up if he eats too much of it.

He is also getting 2 capsules of Dr. Langer’s probiotics daily because he is getting 2000mg of cephalexin (2-500mg capsules 2x day). He has been on antibiotics for the last two weeks and will be on them until we see the vet again in two more weeks.

Analysis of the Multivitamin: per 1 soft chew. Dozer gets 2 per day.
iron (amino acid chelate): 3mg
copper (copper acetate): 0.1mg
manganese (manganese sulfate): 0.25mg
zin (zinc oxide): 1.4mg
vitamin D3: 150 iu
vitamin A (as acetate): 1500 iu
vitamin E (as d-alpha tocopherol): 15 iu
vitamin B1 (thiamin mononitrate): 0.24mg
vitamin B2 (riboflavin): 0.65mg
pantothenic acid (calcium d-pantothenate): 0.68mg
niacin (niacinamide): 3.4mg
vitamin B6 (pyroxidine): 0.24mg
folic acid: 50mcg
vitamin B12 (cyanocobalamin): 7mcg
choline (choline chloride):40mg
biotin: 15mcg
vitamin C (ascorbic acid): 3mg
vitamin K1 (phytonadione): 4mcg

I think I should be giving him more vitamin E right? Anything else I should add supplement wise? He shouldn’t need anything else if I start feeding this with THK again, right?

Thank you in advance for the feedback. I appreciate it.

-Caroline

[Oceans11]

Thank you Pattyvaughn and pugmomsandy for the tips and your encouragement. I found out the breeder is feeding our pup Origen Puppy kibble along with Grizzly Salmon. I am going to feed Nature’s Instinct Raw frozen medallions alternating with Nature’s Variety Dry kibble Duck and Turkey and maybe throw in a little Nature’s Variety canned food to mix it up. I read somewhere on this website that Nature’s Variety is good for all life stages so ok to feed to a 10 week old puppy.

[pugmomsandy]

pacer1978

Since you’ve already introduced raw into the diet, just try out a raw meaty bone and see how they do. I have small dogs and started with chicken wings and necks. And then went to chicken legs. I do have 2 that chomp their bones pretty well and one that does a so-so job at it but in 2 years of raw meaty bones, he hasn’t had any issues. You can attach a large vice clamp onto a RMB or tie part of it to a broom stick or something like that so he can’t gulp the whole thing down and hopefully learns to not gulp. If gulping is a problem, then I would feed grinds and nothing harder than chicken bones. I would say that chicken necks and duck necks and very small turkey necks (about 1 inch diameter or less) are ok to slightly gulp down. This is what my 30 lb dog does! You can always whack the neck with a hammer first. If you want to incorporate raw and still feed kibble and other commercial products, then I would suggest chicken, turkey or duck necks 3 times a week and then maybe a couple meals of just ground meats/organ/calcium supplement (or commercial raw). Baby back pork ribs are also easy to break so that might be an option too. Frankly, I don’t think there is anything “sharp” in a small poultry neck bone so that might be a good bone for you to use. You can also buy a large leg bone just for them to enjoy chewing on instead of eating it.

[pacer1978]

I’m sorry if these questions were already asked. There are so many posts, that I feel it may just be faster to ask instead of reading through every topic on the forum. I am mostly a kibble type since that is convenient and fast, though I do feed my dogs premium kibble: NV, NP, Earthborn Holistic, and Fromm for instance.

Here are my questions. If I do incorporate raw into their diet, how do I go about doing that? Where do you purchase this from? Is there a butcher you go through? How much does it cost typically? I have stayed away from raw thinking it would be unsanitary and very expensive. Plus, I try not to give my dogs bones since they inhale their food and seem to cough and gag a lot after eating one. My thought is that it gets stuck in their throat. Not to mention, I will come home to a pile of bile with sharp bones in the mix and that freaks me out. I’m afraid the sharp bones will do damage to them. Sometimes I will purchase the NV raw patties and freeze dried food and sprinkle or chop that up into their food, but probably don’t do it often for it to make any difference. I’m sure that their raw food is not the same anyway since it is probably still processed in some way.
I know many of you here believe 100% in the raw diet, but I remember when I first investigated it, I had read articles that didn’t support it. One lady explained how she switched to raw and her dog ended up extremely sick with contamination. Any ideas on that? I feel right now with supplements, treats, and premium kibble I am spending so much on their food as it is. I want the best for my dogs, however. I feel you shouldn’t take them on if you can’t provide for them the best you can. Who knows…maybe the raw is cheaper than what I’m spending right now. On the other hand, I’m the main person that handles the feedings in my house. I doubt on the nights I’m at school my husband will have the patients or agreeableness to feed and deal with raw food. Anyway, just looking for your thoughts on some of these questions. I always thought raw was too difficult to feed since there really isn’t a place for me to purchase this other than my grocery store. For some reason, I figured most people purchased it another way. Thanks for anyone reading!

[RescueDaneMom]

Soprano1-

I am by no means an expert. I would suggest checking out the dogaware website at dogaware.com/health/kidney.html. I haven’t figured out how to post links yet so bear with me.

According to my research on dogaware, dogs with early stage kidney disease only need slight diet modifications. The following text is copied from the website:
“Early Renal Insufficiency: In general, creatinine values up to about 2.0 (177 µmol/L) are indicative of mild, or early stage, kidney disease (or early renal insufficiency, as my vet terms it). In cases like these, it may still help to make dietary modifications to reduce phosphorus if blood phosphorus level is above 4.5, but these reductions do not need to be as drastic as when the values are higher, and it is probably not necessary to do other treatments at this stage, such as sub-q fluids (unless your dog is drinking so much that she is having trouble staying hydrated, such as getting up during the night to drink). Adding calcium to each meal if you are feeding a home made diet (to act as a phosphorus binder) would be advisable, and possibly antacids, particularly if your dog is showing any signs of inappetence or gastric problems. I would also give fish oil supplements (body oil, NOT liver oil), at the rate of 1,000 mg (300 mg combined DHA and EPA) per 10 lbs of body weight, along with Vitamin E (50, 100 or 200 IU for small, medium and large dogs), and discontinue any Vitamin A and D supplements (including cod liver oil) added to commercial foods. Additional recommended supplements include a B-complex vitamin and CoQ10, which may be beneficial for dogs with kidney disease.”

There is a table on the website for commercial foods with phosphorous amounts listed. There is only one blue buffalo food on there and it has too much phosphorous. See dogaware.com/health/kidneynonprescription.html

I looked up your previous food (Purina NF) on the same site. It says that food is for Late Stage Kidney Disease. The protein content is 15.9% on a dry matter basis. There are prescription diets that are better suited to Early Stage Kidney Disease. I don’t know why your vet wouldn’t have put your dog on one of those. I think Patty was right and the food was doing more harm than good in your case.

You report that your dog is doing well on Blue right now and you have a recheck in November. If it were me, I would continue to feed Blue and see what her values are at the recheck. If her creatinine and BUN are slightly elevated, I would consider switching to one of the foods on the list of non-prescription foods. My choice would be the Wellness Complete Health Super5Mix Chicken Recipe and/or Wellness Complete Health Super5Mix Whitefish & Sweet Potato.

I hope this is helpful. Again, I would really recommend checking out the dogaware site. There is so much information available. I would read through it before going to your recheck in November so you can be prepared.

[pugmomsandy]

Many dog food manufacturers make several different brands and different flavors, not just Blue. As far as balance of nutrients are concerned, yes Blue is not perfect. There is no perfect one. So to minimize deficiencies or overages, rotate in another brand or two. This should minimize risk. I think those life source bits aren’t evenly distributed or eaten evenly so I can understand why he says that about blue and they did have a recall in 2010 for too much vitamin D. I’ve bought 2 dog foods already that have had a different kibble in the bag from a different recipe. It happens. Few and far between but it does.

[pugmomsandy]

There are several good choices to choose from but since he’s only eaten one food for 3 years, it could take some time (weeks to months) to transition him off, but don’t let that discourage you. Get a good multi-strain probiotic to help seed his gut with a more diverse population since his gut is only used to digestion RC. Since he’s eating grain right now, there are some other good grain products that are gluten free like Nutrisource small/med puppy (yes for your old guy, it’s for all life stages). If you’re confused about that statement, we can discuss it some more. Also there is Nature’s Logic, Nature’s Select Hi-Pro, Merrick Classic, Solid Gold Sundancer, Acana (might have gluten contamination in the oats). For grain free small kibble options, there is Amicus and Instinct (but I wouldn’t try this one yet, it would be too much for him, way too different from RC), Merrick grain free and Nutrisource grain free. I would suggest Amicus or Nutrisource grain free Heartland Select for grain free starters because they are “medium” range. Instinct and Merrick grain free are “high”. Start by adding just 20% of new food to his RC and don’t increase the new food until he has satisfactory output, however long that takes. At his age, I would strongly think about adding canned food to his diet (if you’re not already) or making it the majority of his diet. It is “a step up” from kibble.

http://healthypets.mercola.com/sites/healthypets/archive/2012/06/20/aging-pet-food.aspx

http://healthypets.mercola.com/sites/healthypets/archive/2011/05/05/surprising-findings-from-tufts-study-of-37-senior-dog-foods.aspx

• This reply was modified 12 years, 5 months ago by pugmomsandy.

[Akari_32]

I found a great $2 off any Prosense pet product, so I decided to try the fish oil for Bentley’s suspected grass allergies (it’s not chicken, it’s not grains, so maybe grass?) and the senior vitamins for Haley’s weight (we can’t possibly shove anymore food down this dogs throat, as she just can’t physically eat much more than 5 cups).

Bentley’s been on the fish oil for a few months, and it does actually seem to help him some. We’ve also been wiping his paws and tummy off after being outdoors with a baby wipe, and trying to give him a weekly bath. And, which I haven’t tried yet, I found hot spot shampoo of the same brand on clearence for $3 (use the coupon and it’s only a buck :D).

Haley, at just 65 pounds of ideal weight, eats 4-5 cups a day. She’s maybe 2-3 pounds underweight, healthy otherwise. The vet had her on vitamins last year durring some medical treatment, but she’s since been off them. Pretty much boils down to her being old at this point, and not being able to metabolize food as efficiently. Shes been on these Prosense Senior vitamins for a few days and I do already see her gaining energy, at least.

Regular feeding, for all three of the dogs, consists of 8-9 cups of dry food mixed with a 13 oz can of wet food, and usually an egg thrown in, as well. This is obviously divided up in appropriate amounts for each dog. The whole feeding routine has been made up specifically for Haley, as straight dry food really upsets her stomach, in an indigestible sort of way. Even if it’s just moistened with some water, it helps her tremendously. Poor girls got tummy troubles lol

I was wondering about these senior vitamins: they seem really high in calcium, which I’ve heard mixed things about for older dogs. I’ll get exact numbers in the morning, as I’m in bed now, but it’s several times higher than the adult formula. I want to say its 4-5% though.

This brand is only available at WalMart (locally, at least) from what I’ve seen. Not that I really have much problem with that. I don’t particularly like WalMart, but I’ll do what I have to.

Also, side note while were here, and I feel it’ll be brought up at some point– you guys know those powder Centrum probiotics for people? Would something like that he beneficial in Haley’s case? Doesn’t have to be that brand or kind, either. Anything along those lines. Just know I’m not made of money 😉

[GSDsForever]

Worth a quick read & considering . . .

These ingredients could be ingredients directly contaminated in commercial kibble and canned dog foods or homemade, or could be indirect hazards in animal feeds in the meats.

http://www.livestrong.com/slideshow/1007800-11-banned-food-ingredients-still-allowed-us/

I’m American, but I often like European standards better regarding additives, labeling, GMOs, even dioxin levels in grass fed dairy/meat. Funny, this article reminds me of why I just bought KerryGold Dubliner cheese (grass fed, from Ireland) vs. organic cheese from the U.S., at Costco, to share with my dog as a treat. Often, the safer, cleaner choice. Huge 2.5 lb blocks on sale there right now.

[GSDsForever]

Mike,

The site shows me logged in here and able to post a new topic for other forums, but not the Dog Food Ingredients one.

There it just repeatedly tells me I must log in and must be logged in to create a new topic. But every time I type in my user name and password and hit submit or enter, it just refreshes and treats it as though I didn’t log in or attempt to either. It looks like it will let me reply to something else there, like another thread topic, only.

Anyway, I just want to post an interesting article w/link on US sourced ingredients that might pose dangers in commercial foods or homemade, whether directly or indirectly through animal feed in meat sources. So, that seemed the appropriate forum, creating it as a new topic/thread. Can you look into this please? Maybe a system glitch? Thanks.

When I have time, I’ll try to come back and post it in another forum here, I guess, like off topic. Haven’t had time to post/reply on this site recently.

[dmmal]

Hello from Canada
I am french so my writing english could be not the best so excuse my spelling/ grammar mistakes.
I have read the 43 pages and decided to register. Definitely valuable information. What I have learned and knew nothing about is rotation of food. So now I would like to start my puppy who is 7 months on this new regime of rotation. He has been on Orijen puppy food for large breed since he was 10 weeks. I have bought” Now Fresh” puppy food for large breed. Wondering which other puppy food or all life stages food I could add that are available in Canada. Questions for the ones who are experts in this:
1- how many type of food can I add?
2- how do I do the transition, is one week enough to change from one brand to another one when puppy has been on only one food for the last 5 months?
3- I would like to keep buying the biggest bags. So when there will be one week left of food in the bag can I mix it with another brand of food and when this one is almost empty start the transition again and keep doing this.

Thanks

[InkedMarie]

Duh! LOL, we have a spare bedroom: it’s the laundry room and dog grooming. There’s no AC but that would probably be the best place in the summer and I’m probably smart to NOT stock up on dry food in the summer.

No one’s eating raw at this time. I’m having a heckuva time with Boone’s ears (anyone reading happen to have an ingredient list for the old Brothers allergy formula) so he’s eating just THK Zeal now, Gemma has been constipated twice & needed an enema so she’s getting THK with canned & some Abady granular. Not buying raw just for Ginger.

[Melissaandcrew]

Not Sandy, but I buy all my foods locally to date. I look for the ’boutique’ small pet stores and they tend to carry the higher quality, harder to find brands. There are several of us here that rotate every bag, or every meal/day, lol. It builds up much quicker than you can imagine. Some people order on line, but I tend to be a ‘hands on’ type person needing to see/read/handle the products.

Ordering in bulk is not a good idea unless you are going to use it up fairly quickly, so that would depend on the number of dogs you have. Sandy has a bunch, lol, and I have 15, so the amounts we use per month are going to be a lot higher than someone with two or even three dogs.

[Nancy M]

Hound Dog Mom,

I have read several of your posts, the last one being about puppy food…..I have thoroughly enjoyed your obvious experience, so I want to ask you this: you and others do talk often about food rotation. I have become familiar with that concept over the years and use to do it some. Many others say it is not necessary or hard on the dog’s system. And I’m sure it can be, if you don’t do it correctly. So tell me your opinions on the correct process of rotating dog foods. And whether or not it would be different when the rotation is from raw to cooked to, from kibble, to any of them, etc. You catch my drift here? Some say you must “fast” the dog for 24 hours, some say, to just do it gradually.

Also, I’m getting a new Sheltie pup next week (12 weeks old) and want to know the best foods/diet I can start him on, once he gets through the adjustment period. At this point, I’m not ready to go the raw way (outside of maybe some raw beef bones), but I’d like to start this little guy off on the right foot and improve from there.

Thanks for your insight and great discussions…..

[Melissaandcrew]

HI Molzy-

Sounds like your at the same point as me, lol. I have the same two books and washoping for more recipes that included bone in-Beckers turkey and chicken one are identical, except for protein. Can’t really say that is “two recipes” imo.

If you read the book, there is a mall blurb that whole ground chicken is the proper balance for rmb/bonless. So yes, if you added the 5.25 and th 3.25lbs, you could use 8.5lbs of that instead.

You would still need to add the proper amount of organs called for in the recipe.

[Sully’sMom]

I’ve got a question about toppers – after all the angst of finding the right kibble, now I keep reading articles (elsewhere) and threads (here) about toppers: sardines, eggs, yogurt, green tripe (where do you get that?)…

Anyway, is there a best way to do this? Do you rotate the different toppers each evening? I was already giving him some canned pumpkin and then started with salmon oil, so I moved the pumpkin to the morning and I squirt the salmon oil on the dinner. Would anything else be in addition, or instead of?

[karink]

HDM or anyone that can help. I found this website (which I think is great), but the more I read, the more confused I get. After reading numerous posts, I came across one in which HDM recommends Nature’s Variety Limited Ingredient Turkey and Rabbit formulas for Large Breed Puppies. I fed my 13 year old Golden (who just passed away) the LTD ingredient formula for the past 2 years of his life (when I found it). Loved it!! Would love to start my new Lab puppy on this food as well. However, their website doesn’t list the calcium and phosphorus. Are both of these recipes within the normal calcium/phosphorus ranges for large breed puppies?

Also, if ok, I have read it’s good to top food off with other things like tripe, hard boiled eggs, yogurt, canned sardines, carrots, etc. If I add these things to the diet, does that not throw off the calcium/phosophorus in the diet? How do I control this? Would love to be able to add these things to the diet but I’m no scientist and can’t be doing all kinds of calculations everytime I want to add something to my puppies food – but I also don’t want to harm him.

Also, any names/recommendations on probiotics/enzymes and where to get them? Is there are need to give these to a puppy if you give him a good quality kibble?

Any suggestions? If you could give me the name of your favorite 2 or 3 foods to feed my large breed puppy it would be a great help. That way I can rotate th food. Price is not a problem.

Thanks.

[Cyndi]

Adam, I am so very sorry for your loss. I went thru a similar experience with my cat and my Doberman a couple years ago. I was feeding him Pedigree and then Purina One. They both died suddenly and with no explanation. I adopted my new dog Bailey in January, although I was still heavily grieving for my best friend that I lost. I happened on this site and did a ton of research and it’s been 5 months since my Bailey has eaten any commercial dog “food”. I feed her a raw diet and she’s never been healthier. It is a bit more expensive. I even took on a second part time job to be able to keep feeding her a raw diet. She eats better than I do. I will NEVER feed another pet crappy commercial dog food again.

Hang in there. There is another dog that is out there waiting for you, just wait until you’re ready. Take your time to grieve. Believe me, I know it’s really hard, and the pain does ease up some. It’s been 2 years and a month for me, but I can just think of my Moose and the tears start flowing.

Good luck to you!

[adam]

I believe there is. I just lost my best friend 3 days ago. Luka was only 7. He was a healthy and beautiful full of life child of mine. I performed cpr on him and got him back a few times. Ultimately he died on the way to the hospital. The necropsy revealed his spleen ruptured due to a cancerous tumor that was inside the size of an orange. It also revealed he had cancerous lesions on his liver. If I would have been able to save him it would have just prolonged his suffering. He went from very healthy on Wednesday morning. He went walking as usual. Around 12 PM he began acting weird. Never complaining or making any sound that he was in any pain. He did not move very much throughout the day except to go outside to the bathroom. We thought his stomach was upset. He drank water up to an hour before he died. Between 10 PM and 12 AM he began declining fast. At 2 AM he passed away. 115 pound beautiful German Shepherd. I even went beyond the normal sots and vaccines each year. I had blood sent off for a full wellness profile. This was done 2 months ago. All of the tests came back with an “A+” report card. There should be some place where we could upload all of this data and determine a hypothesis as to the root cause. What I have read on these forums so far… well, I fed him Iams dog food his entire life. It sure looks like this may have been one large contributing factor. I can never replace my son… but I will get another like him who needs to be loved. I’m so nervous about what he will eat that we might start cooking our own food and he will drink nothing but bottled spring water. I feel everyone’s pain on these forums. I hate this feeling. While I await his ashes I am just trying to make it. Three days so far and the tears keep flowing. One thing is for sure… I will NEVER feed my dog Iams nor any cheap un-researched food ever again. Even if I have to pay double. I will lower my own food cost before going with that crap again.

[squeezy]

i’m currently feeding my dog beneful dry food..after reading the reviews in your website i was shocked to find out what garbage i was feeding my poor dog..now, i’m in a hurry of switching food..there’s a lot of 5 stars, and the two’s that are on my mind are orejin and acana..i have a 16lb jack russell (4years old)..which brand is better?is there other brand i should consider?

[somebodysme]

Interesting about the GI inflammation causing her to be allergic. I had not read, or most likely don’t remember reading that before but that makes a lot of sense.

I’d never dreamed it would be such a monumental task to feed a dog? And with her, the more highly regarded food that I buy for her, the worse she does on it. She is a rescue and according to the rescue group, she was fed dog chow at her foster home. Honestly, when he got her she was beautiful and had absolutely no rashes at all. They brought her here with a bag of Pro Plan and it’s been down hill ever since. I’ve tried Blue Buffalo, Simply Nourish grain free, Earthborn Holistic Coastal Catch, Avoderm Trout, Avoderm Duck the rotating menu on both those, Nature’s Variety LID Turkey (digestion was an issue with this one) then I bought Natural Balance which she did the best on until the last bag which smelled totally different than the rest of the bags of NB and now she began to scratch like mad! So here we are, on to the next “high quality” dog food. Though NB isn’t that great, it was so limited in ingredients that it was working and her feet were just about healed up. I suppose now that Del Monte took over, they have changed something. I’m going to write then and ask if the ingredients have changed, the label is exactly the same as all the rest. She isn’t allowed to have anything else but her food now. She cannot even gnaw a bone. This is just insane!

I have my suspicions about certain ingredients but I can’t really know until I find something that doesn’t have them.

• This reply was modified 12 years, 5 months ago by somebodysme.

[Duke The Boxer]

I don’t mean to derail this thread so I started another topic in the dog treats section. Can some of you who are more knowledgable than me in canine nutrition comment. Here is the thread.
/forums/topic/biostareq-k9-dog-star-fish-treats/
I have emailed the company and their formulator was very friendly and responded very quickly. He said that the ratio of phos to calcium was one to one and also the fish meal they use is free of any mercury. Any thoughts? They also has a liver meal treat.

[Mo’s Mom]

I really like the Newman’s Own, and since it’s only a topper (she get’s about a teaspoon in the AM and 2 at night), I’m not really worried about some of the more controversial ingredients (though I can totally see why someone who is using it as a major part of their pet’s diet would be). Really, I am just looking to switch up the topper since I have Mocha on one type of dry food (I know I read somewhere that this probably isn’t as good as rotating food and one day when I don’t get the Victor for a reduced price and can afford it, I will try to rotate the dry food. Until then, rotating her topper is the best I can do). I finally got to the feed store today and picked up several different brands of canned food with different proteins. Since they didn’t have everything I wanted to try (which is a lot, I’ll admit), I’m planning on using the very helpful link HDM provided to order the other wet food I want to try.

Again, thank you all for actually taking the time and helping me out!

[gsdmommy89]

To Sully and Duke:

I used to work at a pet supply store that only carries super premium and premium brand foods (i.e: Fromm, Orijen, Merrick, Nature’s Variety, ZiwiPeak, etc). I did alot of research on every brand we carried because customers have a lot of questions about food, especially people that are switching from grocery brands like Pedigree and Purina since they want to know exactly why they should spend that extra money. I use Nature’s Variety, and I too am very wary of where things come from. As for their rabbit formula, I have used it and I love it. I know it’s sourced from China, but feel confident in it because of the testing they’ve done and also because for a while they did not carry the rabbit formula in the cans or raw. I called, emailed, asked many different representatives in many different ways, and researched as to why this was. I was satisfied to know that they didn’t want to source their rabbit from just anywhere. They’d rather not have any rabbit than to have questionable suppliers. Yes, there are U.S rabbits, but if what they use now is already pricey, could you imagine the price of it if it was U.S supplied? OUCH!! This is my opinion on NV Rabbit ( I’ve used all three varieties: kibble, raw, cans) and I am a huge fan of them. Of course everyone has their own reservations, I just thought it’d be nice to share my experience.

• This reply was modified 12 years, 6 months ago by gsdmommy89.
• This reply was modified 12 years, 6 months ago by gsdmommy89.

[laconrad]

I am speaking of shelter dogs. From what I have gathered, many are rendered into protein. The word ‘meat’ on dog food can mean any flesh from any animal. I am glad yours doesn’t contain that – blessings to you! I saw a video about this, plus did other research. I am still reeling from what I saw in the video sadly 🙁 I mean, it was not an article, of which I have read many, but a video which detailed the process 🙁

[Hound Dog Mom]

Sandy, just a heads up, you might already know or it may not be an issue for you but Addiction’s canned foods are made by Evanger’s. I used to use them a lot for Gus when he ate dry/canned and didn’t know, I recently found this out though. I guess this is only true for the US, their canned foods for other countries are manufactured somewhere in NZ.

[HuskyMom]

Just found this site, it is wonderful. I’ve learned so much. Here’s my problem: I’ve been feeding my 7-year old husky mix female IAMS Healthy Naturals (dry food) since she turned one. Never had a problem at all. About 2 months ago, she started having trouble with her bowel movements, moving from one spot to another. Then she got a little lathargic, stopped eating her regular amount of food. On August 15, she had been in the yard and came in licking the top of her front paw. We didn’t see anything, but the next morning, there was a bump like something had bit her. We immediately took her to the vet and he said it could have been a non-venomous snake and gave her steroids for the itching and swelling and cephalexin anti-biotics. After three days, she started having diarreah and he advised us to stop the antibiotics. She never got back to normal and started having bloody diarreah about a week ago. BUT, she had started having trouble before the bite. Otherwise I would think that it was from that or from the medication. A friend told me about an IAMS recall for salmonella, I researched it and it was in our region. I did not have the bag to check the numbers because I pour it into a tub with a vacuum seal to store. Took her to the vet on Saturday where blood was drawn and sent off, but she had a fever and he said ‘it looked like it might be salmonella, but would have to wait on the results.’ He gave her Metronidazole, Synacore digestive support to sprinkle on her food once a day, plus ProPectalin Gel. I had already started to feed her brown rice with some chicken 4 days before taking her to the vet. He told me to continue on that until she was finished with all her medicine. Three days later (yesterday), he called with the results and it is not salmonella; he said it was either a bowel disease or possibly cancer and said to feed her Hills ID or ZD when she finished the medicine, starting with a little mixed in her rice until she was eating solely the Hills. And to try to get a urine specimen and bring in, which I am finding impossible to do. My question is what else can I give her other than the Hills? After reading the information on here, I really don’t want to feed her that. She is eating very well right now – the rice and chicken and I’ve added some green beans and carrots. But where she used to go on 2-3 mile walks, she’s tired after just a few minutes and will lie down. Sometimes she doesn’t even want to go and before she lived for her long walks. I know it will take time to get over this, whatever it is, so I want to make sure I feed her the right food. Any suggestions? Thanks for reading my long post.

[Melissaandcrew]

Awesome. And, I love the term Frankenprey, lol. I ama hoping to source the vast majority of ingredients locally, but figure worst case basis, I will get some of the prepackaged type stuff the local boutique pet store carries, or order online. I normally would not order online, but winter time “is a coming” so I will feel better about the shipping.

According to the processor, things are “seasonal”-meaning right now, there is more beef then anything being processed. In the spring/summer months its poultry, and of course pork year round. I am planning on stocking up during each” season”. Since beef heart is a muscle meat, is there a limit on how much I can use? My thought process is to use the chicken/duck necks, and then use the heart ground up as the boneless portion of one of the mixes(it dirt cheap and readily available from what the processor said)

[SheSaid]

So sorry for all the loses.. nothing hurts as bad as losing a love one. I too had a fur baby die in June. It was sudden and a rush to the vets where she died with in 12 hours. We were crushed and still suffer the loss. Vet said it was “probably” Addison’s disease and her death was from an Addison crisis .. and he said this without testing her. I researched that disease and it is still a maybe but my thoughts are it could have been food related. I have now transitioned all my other babies to rice and chicken with some vegies. I have recently become mom to a large black lab.. I do give him the rice and chicken mixture but that is much too expensive for me to feed him without mixing in some dry dog food, and of course since reading this I will find a safe dry dog food to give him. My question is that just today I read that rice can contain arsenic… /[‘0’]\ … Is that just the rice in dog food preps or all rice. We eat a lot of rice as a family and now our dogs do too. Is the same true for organic rice as well. I will continue to do some research today on my own but if anyone can fast track me I would appreciate it.

[bruno]

I hope Vader is doing ok.
You may be interested in a couple of formulas I have. They are non-kibble, do not contain any processed ingredients, wheat, soy or sugar or chemicals. One is Rolled Oats, dehydrated veggies, garlic with a packet of vitamin/mineral supplement. These Rolled Oats only contain 4% fat and none of the other ingredients contain any discernible amount of fat. The other formula is Brown Rice with the remainder of the ingredients (veggies, etc). Brown Rice contains less than 1% fat. These formulas are a great compromise between the (horrible) commercial processed food and feeding raw (more preparation than my formulas). You can read about them here California Gold I also have free samples of each formula.

[mfulton7]

Are the foods on the list the only foods that are of good quality and nutritional value for large breed dogs? I’m driving myself crazy trying to decide on a food. I have a fawn dobie puppy as I mentioned above earlier and I’ve read this list dozens of times and still can’t decide! She is currently on the Zignature and is doing well now that she is used to it. I was hoping to find a food that is a little cheaper. Hopefully around $45 for a 30lb bag. Some I’ve looked at are Nutrisource, Rachael Rays’s and the 4health but I’ve read the 4health is made by Diamond which scares the crap out of me. I also would like to keep feeding them something that is fish base since fawn dobie’s are prone to skin issues and I think the nurish only comes in turkey or chicken. Also is it really true that dogs tend to eat less of the grain free foods? I’m trying to estimate how long a 30lb bag would last my 3 dogs. The dobie and 2 smaller breed dogs that weigh 10lbs each. Are there any articles that help with the breakdown?

[ringohop]

My puppy “Trixie” (a medium sized labradoodle) has always been on Purina Pro Plan Focus (chicken and rice) since we brought her home. She is now 14 weeks old and we brought her home at 8 weeks. This is the food the breeder had her started on and recommended it to us. After reading ingredients and star ratings for this food I decided maybe it wasn’t the best for Trixie. I wanted to try switching her over to blue buffalo so I bought the lamb and oatmeal formula, I added the recommended amount to the pro plan for a slow transition. Almost immediately Trixie quit finishing all of her food at mealtime. I thought maybe she didn’t like the lamb so i tried the chicken and rice formula, same thing! So I did the taste test, one bowl with a little blue buffalo and one bowl with a little pro plan. She scarfed the pro plan and left the blue buffalo sitting there! So now I’m torn about what to do, she clearly is happier with the pro plan but I’m not sure I’m happy with the ingredients. I always fed my other dog (who just recently passed away at 15 years of age) Iams pro active mini chunks. Same thing, bad star rating but he loved it, and lived for 15 years! Are the ingredients in pro plan going to have bad effects on Trixie’s health later in life or will it be a fine food, just not “the best money can buy”? Any suggestions?

[somebodysme]

OH man, reading that is making my head spin! HAHA! I’ve been dealing with allergies since I adopted my dog back in Dec! I wouldn’t know where to start because any of that could be an issue. So you cannot think of anything new you just started? I’d try and figure out what’s the latest addition and stop that and see if it helps. It could be environmental too, shampoo? My dog will show signs immediately if she’s allergic to something.

[RobLee]

Hello everyone,

Would anyone here happen to know where dog food producers get their puree/powders for their dry dog foods?

At the moment I am working on making my own dry dog food. Is their an agricultural network that I can gain access to such powders/purees in bulk? I have already gathered contacts for certain types chicken/etc. meals I will be using.

I have looked online for such purees I need but they seem a bit pricey. Also its hard to find the specific ones I will be needing.

Thanks!

-RobLee

• This topic was modified 12 years, 6 months ago by RobLee.

[GSDsForever]

In my early morning reading with coffee in hand . . .

From a Cat Lane article on The Possible Canine website:

“2006 NRC Guidelines state it clearly:

Minimal requirement = 2.62 grams per kilogram BW ( to the power 0.75)

Recommended Allowance = 3.28 grams per kilogram (to the power 0.75)

Safe Upper Limit = NONE

Protein requirements are also influenced by various factors such as the dog’s overall condition, the digestibility of the food source, activity level and others. In general, when I formulate a diet for a healthy dog, I use 2 – 3 times the recommended allowance. So let’s take a look at an example. My 75 lb dog. First, take the weight in kilograms – so 34.01 kgs. Next, we take this number to the power of 0.75 – easily done on one’s computer calculator: we get the number 14.08. This is the number that will represent my dog in all calculations from here on in, his metabolic weight. To now find his “requirement” – let’s say, his RA or recommended allowance, all we need to do is multiply his number – 14.08 – by the RA – 3.28.

Here’s what we get: 46.182. That’s the recommended gram weight of total protein for the day. If I were to put this strictly into practice, I would end up with a percentage of total protein probably around 15% I am guessing. So let’s have a peek and see. I’ve formulated a diet for Daniel that contains only 46 grams of protein per day. I will also use the RA for total fat, which in this case would be 27 grams. His caloric needs are 1840 per day, so if I devise a very simple diet of brown rice, coconut oil and turkey, and stick strictly to the RA for fat and protein,I would get percentages like this:

Distribution of calories:

Protein: 11.3 %

Fat: 15.6 %

Carbohydrate: 73 %

I would also be feeding this:

1. Turkey, Dark Meat w/skin, boneless, roasted, diced 0.33 of: 1 cup, diced (46.2g)

2. Grain, Rice, Brown, ckd 7 of: 1 cup, cooked, hot (1365.0g)

3. Oil, Coconut 1 of: 1 tbsp (13.5g)

[Dogs’ reaction to dinner]:

Click on: http://thepossiblecanine.files.wordpress.com/2012/10/hw_dogs_surprised.jpg?w=660”

LOL!!!

Though I kinda thought the picture says it all, she helpfully goes on to say (crusading for all doggies out there, lol):

“That’s right – SEVEN cups of brown rice, and a third of a cup of turkey. This diet technically meets the RA for protein and fat. Of course it doesn’t take into consideration fatty or amino acid levels or vitamins and minerals, this is an exercise to show how there is so much confusion between percentages and actual gram content. I often develop diets for dogs with liver issues where the protein percentage is in the midteens but the gram content is actually over the RA. Vets will want a higher level based on percentage but after we speak they understood that percentages are not the whole story. They tell us how much of a given nutrient the diet contains – RELATIVE to other energy nutrients. In actual practise, I use much – MUCH higher levels of protein and fat in my own dog’s diet as well as professional cases. It’s not in any way optimal to feed a 75 pound dog 1/3 of a cup of meat and 7 cups of rice per day. When we look at the recipe above we also will see that no less than 34 of the 46 grams of total protein come from the rice. So if we were to use more sweet potato than rice we could actually inch up the turkey a bit…. but the poor dog who has to eat so much carb and so little protein! Let’s not forget that from mouth to tail, dogs are carnivores, and derive most quality nutrients from animal sources. I have long defended the use of fiber in the canine diet, because I am not so much interested in what wolves do or don’t eat – on a practical level, at any rate – but in what type of diet is absolutely optimal for the individual dog I’m working with. This always means some fiber, although the type and amount will vary. But all that said, animal products – protein and fats – should form the mainstay of a healthy dog’s diet. This menu I used above as an example is lower than what I’d use for dogs with liver disease,by far – yet it meets the NRC Guidelines for requirements.

To start working out the amount of protein to use (we’ll get to sources later) find your dog’s protein RA first, then in a home made diet, go 2-3 times above that in grams.”