[Dori]

Hi Cheryl,

Yes I do know how you feel about your babies. I was like this even when my son was alive. (He passed away a little over eight years ago at the age of 22). He used to refer to the dogs as his sisters (we had Hannah then who’s 15 now and we another dog, a Tibetan Terrier named Tracy. She passed two months before Matthew did). Sorry I only mention in because though I no longer have children, my dogs have always been my babies and family members so I get exactly where you’re coming from. Of course, my personality makes me research everything like crazy, add to that that I’m a Virgo and you get the picture. I never believed much in the silliness of horoscopes other than to read them in the morning papers years ago but as I’ve gotten older I realize I’m pretty much everything they say about Virgo’s. Go figure???? If you’re uncomfortable and nervous about the raw food, then you should probably wait until Monday morning when your vet is open again. It’s in your freezer so it’s not like it’s going to go bad or anything.

I also agree with your reasoning on the possibility of holding off on getting a puppy. It may very well be a bit disconcerting to Pepper. I’ve forgotten how old both your dogs are. Also, is it going to be too much on you. When we brought Lola and Katie into our home (they are 5 now) Hannah was 10 years old and it took her a very long time to adjust to the two new girls. I was surprised because she’s never had problems in the past. I can only think that either it was her age or she just liked being the Queen with no subjects below her. lol! Who knows really. Sometimes it works out perfectly fine. I just don’t know how Pepper’s blindness would affect her having a little squirmy puppy running amok in the house as the do. You’d really be the best judge as to her temperament and stress coping skills. Have a good weekend yourself. It’s cold here in Atlanta but I’m thankful that the sun is out. In the Summer I’m always wishing that the sun would go away.

[Cheryl Pepper Millie Sophie]

Commercial Raw Feeders,
I could use some help.
Just got some primal Raw for my puppy Millie.
I took a big girl breadth , my questions how do i go about introducing this into Millie’s diet?
Give a tiny amt. alone? I still feed her 3x a day-her noon meal is an orijen freeze dried patty-do u think I should switch w the primal?
Can she eat the primal in her regular bowl or should I get her another stainless bowl?
I am sorry if I sound a bit “out there” have never ever done this-just worried about Millie
Thanks all in advance.

[Kristin C]

I am only replying so I can get off this post. And I think I’ll get my information elsewhere moving forward. If Aimee’s posts are considered friendly and calm we must be reading different ones. The ones I seem to read are ranting, somewhat heated and critical with occasional sarcasm. I prefer to get my information from more emotionally intelligent sources.

[Kristin C]

Hi Aimee-I understand that you have a background in the field just by your posts. What I mean by your “approach” is that maybe you can tone it down cause the newbies could get scared off. If you scan this forum it’s a lot of people who just want to do right by their pups, and that’s putting it mildly. People come here looking for answers to their concerns, and some are pretty serious (not just questions on dinner mixes). I found this forum after having a pretty solid dog who has a rock solid stomach but she had a mast cell tumor on her face as a puppy. I got another puppy who couldn’t keep kibble down and was just absolutely wilting and it shocked me.

I believe, from all I’ve read, it’s pretty grey on what to feed. One size does not fit all and I have worked super hard on variety for my fur-girls, as I am sure many others have in their own research. My dogs are thriving. I don’t have kids, unfortunately, but I’m sure I would be just as diligent, if not more diligent, in my efforts to feed them as I’m sure you are with your kids.

Aimee, just don’t steamroll EVERYTHING is all I am saying. Different diets may work for different dogs. Sorry to Jakes Mom for her post taking this turn:( Have a good night.

[Cheryl Pepper Millie Sophie]

Aimee,
You will have to give me a few days to digest all that you posted, some comments I am still shaking my head about.
You are an intelligent well read well researched person, yet some comments just don’t make sense.
I am so curious (yet it isn’t my business) to know why you have such an axe to grind with the Honest Kitchen, yet vet diets are o.k.
You don’t think offering vet clinics trips kickbacks?? Where I come from that is a kickback, plain & simple.
Food isn’t an income source, its a WINDFALL to a vet practice its a cha-ching, do you think posters here are the average pet parent? Let me tell you they are not. you know that, you take the time to answer & help people, yet you think the veterinary profession is above reproach. If I am making wrong assumptions, I am sorry. Your sister’s clients may be the exception, but, they may be also better at hiding money & telling your sister only what they want her to know. Sorry if that sounds harsh. You may call me bitter & yes you would be correct-those incompetent **** BLED YES BLED ME,because they saw how much I loved my angel & that I would try to move heaven & earth to save her-Aimee how would you like to be told your fur kid had cancer only to be told by the head of the reproduction dept @ LSU Veterinary School she had her period!!!!! I didn’t know wether to laugh or cry, I called the idiot & told him he needs to go back to school !! I could go on & on, I have no respect for any of them. It’s money money money plain & simple! Yes there are some god vets, but those are rare, I have found only one & he is getting ready to retire
Don’t you think it’s easier to take what these vets say buy the crap pour it in the dish & not even look at the ingredients? People on this site spend hrs, days ,weeks searching for alternatives.
It’s the same with us people get a script from the dr. & on your way, don’t exercise don’t change the way you eat, just take a pill.
I will continue this but the fur-kids want to eat, I must comply

[Cait Y]

Ok so I have lurked here for a little over a year, and recently started making my own raw cat food via Lisa A. Pierson, DVM because one of my boys almost died after getting into the Dry food AGAIN and his whole GI system blocked up because he cannot handle the lack of fluids in dry food. He is such a picky eater that I had put off the raw diet dreading that he would turn his nose up at it like he did the other high quality raw/semi cooked food I tried buying him. He LOVED the home made food, he even batted off his BFF to eat his food too!
HoundDogMom, other raw feeders please bear with me I know that the whole shebang I know as of now it is 6 pages long. I am trying to paint the whole picture with the dogs, their special needs and what is causing me confusion with the Raw feeding books I have read. There is so much going on right now in my personal life that I am having a very hard time understanding this and if anyone could help point me in the right direction or even a book or website or from experience I would be so very very grateful.
The biggest reservation I have about feeding Raw to the dogs (who LOVED the scoop of homemade cat food I gave them as a test) are the bones and sadly the limited ingredients I can use for my Special Needs Hound.
I have a 14 yr old Walker hound (Forest) who has like no teeth left and was just diagnosed with cushing’s disease but has some pretty abnormal liver tests because of the damage that was done while he went undiagnosed. His liver is so enlarged it displaces his stomach sideways and upwards which makes EASILY digestible food a must. He cannot have food high in phosphorus, copper or ammonia which means little to no red meat and lots of poultry, eggs and pork. He also has problems with chronic Constipation so I would have to be VERY careful about the amount of bone I add to his diet but I also want enough in there to give him the nutrients he needs. Since he is older he also burns a LOT of calories, He is on Vital Fresh pet Turkey or Chicken and gets 1.5 lbs a day. I don’t know what is causing him to burn so many calories except for old age or maybe his body is trying to repair itself – all he does is lounge in the lawn and do his hound dance for food – people or animal whichever he can mac on at the moment lol
My 3 yr old yellow lab (Nova) is also a high calorie burner but she is super active, we do scent tracking, retrieving, and lots of walking/running on the grass. She will go until she drops which I have never seen before, so now I watch her very closely for signs she is over heated. She eats up to 2 lbs of the above dog food a day but is still losing weight on occasion when her activity jumps up again. She has always had double the amount of Eosinophils in her blood that she should at a “normal” rate. She has been checked for parasites so the best I can come up with is that she might have GI issues going on intermittently – she doesn’t transition food gracefully and really doesn’t tolerate even high quality kibble (after research it’s not such a mystery anymore) which is in part what turned me onto Freshpets Vital.
To top it all off I have a Four month old female lab puppy (Ellie) that is still growing. I have her on 2 lbs of Freshpets vital but I am worried that she is not getting something in her diet as well. She has three white lines running across her nails – each nail on every paw. In my experience when the horses have white lines or even indents it means either they were very very sick or have a mineral/vitamin deficiency of some sort. I know when Ellie came to us she had a severe infection of hook and round worms. Her infection was so severe at 8 weeks old that the vet said she would have died untreated – thank you OCD and taking her to the Vet the same day she was brought home lol. They were resistant to the normal worming meds and for 2 months we battled with getting them under control and gone. If Dogs are like horses that would cause the lines because of how sick she was during this (Great going Lemon law Florida) yet I also worry because I know parasites in small animals or even large can cause a huge system imbalance with nutrients which hinders growth.
OK Limited ingredients – because of Forest I have to stick to Chicken, Turkey, and Eggs as a main protein source due to his liver problems and because Rabbit in completely unviable to me unless I want to raise them myself. I have no local butcher – the closest one is three hours away so Chicken and Turkey liver will have to do for organ meat – sometimes I can get chicken hearts once in a blue moon. For Fats I have to choose VERY easily digestible fats from an animal protein because with Forests Liver problems his biliary system can be overloaded very easily and that would be disastrous. Maybe I can add some duck occasionally to his diet?

Copper Issues:
If ammonia restriction is required, feed less red meats and organs since they produce the most ammonia. You may not want to eliminate them entirely though, as they have important nutrients that help with liver function.
Instead, cut back. Feed more poultry, fish, eggs, and pork. If feeding red meat, even in small quantities, buy the absolute best quality you can afford. Preferably grass fed, antibiotic, and hormone free.

Meats generally low in copper are:
• Beef (muscle meat, not organs)
• Eggs
• Turkey (white meat)
• Chicken (white meat)
• Rabbit
• Fish
Meats generally high in copper are:
• Lamb
• Pork
• Pheasant or Quail
• Duck
• Goose
• Salmon
• Organ Meats
When feeding organs for copper issues, some animal livers contain more copper than others. Beef liver is higher in copper than chicken or pork livers. Regardless, the zinc and b vitamins in liver help to reduce the risk of copper toxicity. Though if your dog has an issue with copper, opt for chicken or pork liver. (http://primalpooch.com/raw-feeding-guidelines-dogs-liver-disease/)

I have read Unlocking the Canine Ancestral Diet and Dr. Pitcairn’s New Complete Guide to Health of Dogs and Cats. I have some major issues with either of the books, UtCaD is so absolute – if you feed this protein then you need this oil. First of all Canola Oil? Corn Oil? Soybean Oil? Walnut oil? Flax and hemp seed oil? I own horses and I would NEVER give them Corn oil with the GMO crap going around I don’t trust Corn or Canola at all. If I am not comfortable feeding to my strict Herbivores I am definitely not OK feeding it to the other animals. By the way the 2,000 lbs animals have had major GI upset from Canola, Corn, Soybean and Flax seed oil. I’ve given it to them in small amounts – 3 tablespoons a day and I have seen a massive systemic effect that made me take them off of it immediately. It was supposed to give them the right ratio of Omega’s 3 and 6 plus help my older guys move and keep weight on since it was winter. The recommended Ratio of 6 to 3 fats are 10:1 to 5:1 for dogs – I have read that small fish or Krill are the best to supplement dogs with because of the low contamination rate and it should not carry Salmon Sickness. Soybean oil is also something I would never give my dogs or humans or anything because of the way it can mimic hormones and interrupt the function of the Thyroid. Also Kelp is recommended a lot, but there are so many negatives that came out during the feeding kelp to horse’s fad that I will not touch the stuff. If it can affect the horses with the amount of iodine to the point horses became toxic I don’t trust the manufactures. It was not that kelp was being fed in large amounts there was absolutely no regulation on what type they harvested or what it contained. Missing link for dogs is a product I am familiar with and they do make it for dogs with trace minerals but it is flax based. Won’t this completely mess up the balancing? Does anyone here feed this instead of kelp?
The Missing Link Ultimate Skin & Coat:
Active Ingredients (per tbsp)
Flaxseed Dried Kelp
Glucosamine Hydrochloride (Vegetarian) Zinc Monomethionine
Freeze Dried Beef Liver Lecithin
Blackstrap Molasses Chromium Yeast
Rice Bran Selenium Yeast
Primary Dried Yeast Pyridoxine Hydrochloride (Vitamin B6)
Sunflower Seed Niacin (Vitamin B3)
Dehydrated Alfalfa Garlic Powder
Dried Carrot Yucca Schidigera Extract
Shark Cartilage Powder* Riboflavin (Vitamin B2)
Freeze Dried Fish Protein Powder Thiamine Hydrochloride (Vitamin B1)
Freeze Dried Oyster Powder Folic Acid
Barley Grass Leaves Powder Cobalamin (Vitamin B12)
Guaranteed Analysis Amount
Crude Protein (not less than) 18%
Crude Fat (not less than) 28%
Crude Fiber (not more than) 15%
Moisture (not more than) 10%
Linoleic Acid (Omega 6) 450 mg
**Linolenic Acid (Omega 3) 1000 mg
**Not recognized as an essential nutrient by the AAFCO Cat/Dog food nutrient profiles.

Also if everything is so precise that does not leave room for error such as what if the chickens were raised on Florida soil which is heavy in limestone and deficient in other areas – rather than let’s say somewhere in the bread bowl what about if they were fed a corn based feed and another batch was fed free range? If the meat analysis is different it throws everything off and we all know that meat from south Fl is very different than meat from MI or IN – same principle goes with growing vegetables even organic. How much of a God Factor is there for the abundance of some micronutrients and lack of others? UTCAD also has an abundance of some nutrients way over the NRC guidelines – are dogs different in the fact that they can rid themselves of excess things very easily? I know in humans and horses Vit E and Selenium can be deadly because it builds up in fat and the body doesn’t flush it out like the water-soluble vitamins?
Dr. Pitcairn’s New Complete Guide to Health has a lot of oat meal, rice, beans?! Half and Half milk, whole milk, whole wheat bread corn? That sounds not so great for dogs and especially not for cats like it says it can be. What about kidney beans? With feeding my dogs I have learned they do OK on rice occasionally when they have an upset GI but if they are on a diet with rice too long they get backed up. Also the beans – the dogs seem to have issues with digesting them like people sometimes do – why are there so many carbohydrates? Why cannot I do sprouted microgreens or carrots or even baked potatoes because I know the dogs tolerate those vegetables very well. Also Brewer’s Yeast? Isn’t yeast as a whole bad? It’s in everything and I know Nova already is prone to yeast infections in her ears and when she gets a UTI – Also can Brewer’s yeast cause or attribute to bloat? Milk – isn’t milk products bad if they are in large amounts such as 2 cups milk plus 2 cups rolled oats and 2 eggs and calcium powder? Everything to me seems so skewed.
Also RMB are out of the question – Forest cannot eat them and Nova and Ellie are gulpers – they came from a large litter and it would be just my luck to end up in emergency surgery with one of them. I have a grinder to which I can grind the bone up with the meat and I know the purpose of the bone was for dental health but if I make Meat Jerky and other goodies can I replicate that without worrying about emergency surgery or broken teeth?
Since I own a grinder already for cat food why cannot I grind bones to supplement their food with? So far in my research the basic recipe and consensus I have come across is as follows:
16% Organ meat
10% – 25% Bone
The rest of the food would be muscle meat and muscle meat
Meat is very high in phos and the bone is high in Cal which means the Cal to Phos ratio should be 1.2 to 1.5:1 although 1:1 to 2.5:1 is ok as well. I just need to make sure the dogs consume more Cal than Phos but the question is do I need to add bone meal or can I grind my own bones to supplement?
Here is what the Article analysis the bone content to be in prey animals:
Bone Content In Raw Foods
When sourcing bones for your dog’s diet, it’s a good idea to know the approximate amount of bone in commonly sourced foods. Here is a quick guide to help you keep your dog’s bone content in the right range; between 10% and 25%.
Chicken Whole chicken (not including the head and feet): 25% bone/Leg quarter: 30%/Split breast: 20%/Thigh: 15%/Drumstick: 30%/Wing: 45%/Neck: 36%/Back: 45%/Turkey/Whole turkey: 21%/Thigh: 21%/Drumstick: 20%/Wing: 37%/Neck: 42%/Back: 41%
Pork Feet: 30%/Tails: 30%/Ribs: 30%
Beef Ribs: 52%
Rabbit Whole rabbit (fur and all): 10% Whole (dressed): 25-30%

From this can I remove the proper amount of bones or add more bones in to balance or would you suggest a bone meal powder? Also I have yet to factor in the percentage of vegetable/fruit/microgreens in the recipe – I am just so lost so if HoundDogMom could help or someone else could chime in I would be so grateful. I am trying very hard to learn as much as I can but between the animals and two sick family members and special needs animals by the time I have a moment to sit down I am out like a light for the night or my brain is so frazzled everything looks like it was written in French. Am I over thinking this? I just don’t want to screw Ellie up – she has already had such a bad start with the worm infection – and Forest needs nutrients to rebuild his liver correctly and I wanted to see if this change in diet would help Nova’s Eosinophils come to a normal level. Also has anyone ever seen white lines on every toenail that grows parallel with the skin? Any help would be so appreciated there is just not a lot of room for error with Forest right now with his liver Alt levels 4 times what they are supposed to be. They cannot stay on the Freshpet much longer because to feed the dogs its 19 dollars a day and that’s not a very good long term solution.
Thanks so much everyone~!~ I Hope everyone had a great New Year and wonderful Holiday
`RedMare

[Cheryl Pepper Millie Sophie]

Dori,
Please let me know how the girls do on KBPF-I ALMOST placed an order for the trial sizes, but my head is spinning from what I already have in the bullpen for Millie.
The next free-dried i have for her is the Oracle grain-free, still waiting for the Primal Raw.
I,too was loved by the shelter, all the foods I tried for pepper & poor thing couldn’t tolerate any.
Thanks for the heads up with the fruits and veggies -I only feed 1 type of treat its called Cocotherapy-freeze dried fruits or veggies they are very costly & the bags are very empty for $9.95 a bag, I don’t use any commercial bones either.
When I first got Pepper & didn’t know anything I bought her Greenies for her dental issues-my angel got so sick on them, I swore I would never again buy anything like that!!
I have been in Louisiana 34 yrs-all my adult life, but they still call me a yankee and I am proud of that,never lost my accent as I am told!! I go home & they ask me where I am from!!! Go figure.
Do you have any suggestions on what I can use to clean Millie’s ear she has some wax & I think it bothers her-she shakes her head sometimes,no smell, I thought vinegar or hydrogen peroxide , but this healthy dog Handbook says both are no-no’s=the book says o use a commercial product, I always try to stat away from them, but if you have a particular product that works, I would appreciate the info.
Fondly,
Cheryl

[Sarah]

I am hoping to get advice on how to handle a Rabies shot issue with Pearl my 13-14 week* old puppy. Pearl the puppy is 3/4 Golden Retriever and 1/4 Border Collie and an absolute delight of a dog!
*I left her paperwork at home and can’t remember her exact birthday off hand and can update with exact info later this evening

Issue/Problem/Question:
I work at Amazon HQ in Seattle which is a dog friendly office, meaning Pearl the puppy can start coming into work with me each day instead of being crated at home Monday-Friday 9-11 hours each day, which is what is currently happening. However, she cannot come into work with me until she has been cleared by Amazon vaccine requirements which is only to have her Rabies shot, and there is no go around on this. I have a vet appointment tonight and really love and trust our vet. I am not hyper sensitive on vaccinating in general (ex. I vaccinate myself AND my future children WILL be vaccinated) but I do believe in doing one’s homework. I have read a large range of ages in which is okay/safe/should do the rabies vaccine in. I would love to get the other opinions on what I should do in this circumstance. I hate having her crated all day and being able to bring her into work and have the diverse interactions with dogs and humans could be such an amazing impact on her long term.

I am interested to hear what age you think is the youngest to get this vaccine done and what the true level of risk is by getting it done at what ages. Considering the risks/rewards we are facing, how long would you wait to do the Rabies vaccine?

Thanks in advance for your thoughts and expertise!

~Sarah and Pearl

[pugmomsandy]

If you haven’t nominated the brand yet, you can do so in this topic:

/forums/topic/nominate-a-dog-food-brand-for-editors-choice/

Also, if you haven’t read through the FAQ’s, it might help to answer your question.

/frequently-asked-questions/about-editors-choice/

There are several guidelines for choosing an Editor’s Choice brand. It also takes quite a bit of time to do the research on each company. Also, if a company chooses to not answer some of the questions required to be an Editor’s Choice, then that company probably won’t be included on the list.

[DogFoodie]

Hi David,

Sorry to hear about the diagnosis.

I know C4C has experience in dealing with Giardia. I hope she’ll see this and weigh in.

In the meantime, here’s a thread you might find useful:/forums/topic/puppy-with-giardia/

You can always go to the forum home page and specify search terms.

[Bobby dog]

Cheryl H:
KBPF is one of the dinner mixes I suggested you look into on the review side. Aimee was kind enough to look at the company and found some very interesting info in regards to what they have posted on their website and the pre-mix formulations. Read her January 4, 2015 at 11:54 pm post.

I want to start making some home cooked food for both my dog and cats, but have not had time to research it. The info that Aimee posted is the type of research that I feel is necessary before I buy a supplement. Unfortunately, I just don’t have the time right now. KBPF is no longer on my list of pre-mixes to research, one less company to look at. lol

If you are interested in speaking with a Veterinary Nutritionist, you can find one here:
http://www.acvn.org/

You can also contact a University that has a Veterinary School to see if they offer nutritional consultations with their Vet Nutritionist. Most that offer these services will do phone consultations with you and your Vet. Tufts, Cornell, U of Minnesota, U of Tennessee, UC Davis, and Penn Vet are some schools that offer this type of service; I am sure there are many more.

[Liz S]

Sorry for the late reply!

Cheryl & melissaandcrew,
I meant to say murmur. I think I was just thinking of so many different things at once…

Cheryl, I would cry too 🙁 – Glad your girl found you. I love Amazon- I will check Oravet out. I really, really want/need Qtip to have a dental. Maybe Oravet could be afterwards-maintenance? Will have to look at it in a bit.

You know, I think you are right about my vet. They have snuck in little ( odd ones IMO ) charges many times now. Twice now they have taken our pets information incorrectly. Meaning they kind of quickly put things in but they always seem distracted. The 1st time I found out was when we were discussing our buggs vaccines. Age was way off. The 2nd time was fairly recent. My 2 year old Chihuahua went in to be spayed. Mind you she had been going to them since she was a puppy. Well, the vet called me afterward and said ” there was no way this was the uterus of a 7 month old puppy. ” I was like WHAT?!?! She was 2! The worst visit was when we had to help our Annabelle ( ferret ) cross the bridge. My fiancé and I walked into the room while I held her in a fuzzy blanket. Anthony was so upset and had tears in his eyes since we walked in the door. I felt horrible 🙁 – I told him earlier that day that he didn’t have to come. It was okay. He said ” No, I’m coming. I’ve just never had to put any of my pets down before. I’ve never seen an animal die. ” — phew it broke my heart for him. Anyway- We get in the room. A tech brings in a card reader and tells us the price. It was not the “exact price” that I was told over the phone. It was $60 more. But, ok. Fine. She left and then came back saying ” we have it down as you ordering 30 cans of A/D and never paying for them.” — I was enraged. Not only did we not order them, but we never picked them up. We had even been there 3x AFTER the so called time the cans were picked up. I couldn’t believe she was asking about it at this time! She left again. Came back and said it was a mistake on their end. No ” I’m sorry about that.” No nothing. Oh it was just a really bad experience. 🙁

I guess I’m going to have to call vet after vet and explain/get prices etc? That’s hard because most won’t say much until the pet is seen, right? 🙁

I wonder what my next move should be? I have an appointment with the current vet on Tuesday and have to keep it since it’s for my ferrets. But I’m not sure what to do after that?

Honestly anyone that comments, I appreciate the advice more than you know.

Liz

[David G]

Mike Sagman – Thanks for the reply. That article was one of the first things I read here and it was awesome. Always looking to gain more knowledge on the topic. Just need help finding one that fits the criteria and our budget..

crazy4cats – Thanks crazy4cats! I’m going to go down the list and check the websites that were recommended and go with it. The Kirkland puppy food isn’t specific for large breeds so poor little Tanky’s stool is consistently soft/loose. Trying to fix the situation asap!

DogFoodie – While I understand the logic, if that were applied across the board there’s very few companies I’d use in life. Keurig, Coca Cola…I can’t say I’m surprised Costco/Kirkland didn’t reply, and don’t want to rule it out based on that. I would just say it’s icing on the cake for the companies that did respond.

Edit: I see Kirkland Signature Nature’s Domain on the list actually. We may just go with that since we’re familiar and have had a good experience. I’ll double check.

InkedMarie – I’m going to do that right now. We want to get something that’s affordable, but above all else provides the nutrition and quality. Definitely not trying to cut corners when it comes to his health and growth. Thanks again.

-Dave

• This reply was modified 10 years, 11 months ago by David G.

[Jon h]

Hi everyone,

So I’ve lurked here for a while now collecting information regarding nutrition and have come across an interesting topic. I became interested in natural allergy remedies as it seems our Australian cattle dog has some itchy skin problems the vet believes is related to allergies from the environment.

Now before we get on to the topic of honey I would prefer that this be a FACT based discussion not a personal opinion, anecdotal evidence type discussion. Unfortunately as humans we are able to make extremely irrational and unfounded correlations especially when we don’t understand something or want something to be true (ie we desperately want a natural remedy to be as effective or more effective than a pharmaceutical remedy). This has no place in the canine nutritional world (or human) as toying with an animals nutrition based on weak non-scientific beliefs is in my opinion horribly ignorant and in some cases an unethical thing to do. So please keep responses scientific in nature and cite articles if you can (petmd, blog posts and natural canine health daily articles type sources with no references don’t count as scientific!)

The theory behind the honey supplementation seems to be this: Local honey supposedly contains local allergens and supplementing with it acts similar to a vaccine by exposing the animal to low levels of an allergen and helping to develop an immune response to the allergen.

Now this sounds all fine and dandy in theory and certainty a naive layman will take this as face value and argue this as being fact (i’m am trying to be an informed layman!). But does this actually have any scientific value? That is what I want to find out.

I have read several claims that in fact there is no scientific basis for this. The argument is that bees do not extract pollen from the common plant sources of airborne pollen which cause the allergic reactions in our dogs. They of course get pollen from flowers and a few other sources, they do not collect pollen from say pine trees or most grasses. Any contamination during transport or in the nest from the common local allergens is said to be negligible and will not help build an immunity.
example of a study on humans:
http://www.annallergy.org/article/S1081-1206%2810%2961996-5/abstract

There is also a Finnish study on humans which took 3 groups, one group as a control, one supplemented with regular honey and one supplemented with a honey that had birch pollen added to it. The Ones taking the honey with birch pollen saw improvements and had to use less antihistamines to control their symptoms while the ones supplementing with regular honey saw no difference.
abstract:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21196761

Now my problem is that I see honey toted continuously on natural canine remedy sites. However I do not see a signal study either in humans or canines showing any truth to the theory. Any evidence is extremely weak correlation evidence with no control or consideration for other variables. All actual scientific studies of this theory i’ve personally come across show that their so no truth to this theory. So is this just a myth?

The second problem I see that REALLY concerns me is there are huge ranges of supplementation dosages. Some references say to feed your dog 1/4 teaspoon per week while other such as the lady in the non-scholarly article below say two tablespoons per day for larger dogs (in her case her lab and staffordshire terrier). Now that is extremely worrisome to me as there are 17 grams of sugar per table spoon of honey. if I am to assume her dogs weigh approximately 80 pounds (upper end of pure lab retrievers and beyond the upper limit of staffordshire terriers) then I estimate their daily requirement of calories (using online calculator) to be 1630. If there are 64 calories per tablespoon of honey (google) this would mean they are getting 7.9% of their daily intake of calories straight from simple sugars. Comparing this to my daily intake of ~2300 cals (because from my understanding canines metabolize simple sugars similar to the way humans do) this computes (if i’ve done my math right) to 48 grams of straight simple sugars a day for me. This is over my targets for the day even making the assumption that my other foods have zero sugars in them…. Now assuming that the dog is already getting sugars from their regular food source you are probably doubling their recommended sugar intake per day. This doesn’t seem right to me at all as a human consistently doubling their recommended sugar intake daily would be a good candidate for type 2 diabetes. So why are people recommending this to do to our dogs?

Michele Crouse interviewed about honey supplementation (under “honey for dogs” section)
http://www.whole-dog-journal.com/issues/10_9/features/Bee-Honey-Products-Help-Canines_15967-1.html

I’m hoping this sparks some interesting conversation. As you can probably tell I am somewhat against this theory. Mostly because I have yet to see a shred of scientific evidence for it and I don’t personally like adding or subtracting things from my dogs diet based on personal opinions and weak, unfounded theories. I’d be interested to see if there is actually research supporting this idea.

Is there any truth to this theory? or are people just pumping their dogs full of sugar and added calories?

[jakes mom]

Just when I’m thinking about trying to put Jake on raw meat and dinner mixes I find out I can’t get SSLL. What are your opinions on the Honest Kitchen mixes? Price wise and quality wise? And which one? There are 3 to choose from. He’s a 30ish# beagle/bassett mix with no allergy issues or anything, I’m just thinking about better food for him. I’ve upgraded his kibble since I found this site altho I’m glad to know at least I was never giving him the 1 or 2 star stuff! Also added RMBs which he loves, but I’m not quite ready have a freezer full of bunny and quail. So I thought meat and the mix would be a good compromise if it’s not terribly pricey. Would that be comparable to a bag of 4star kibble? I’m betting he might drop a pound or 2 on the new diet, too, which would be good for him. He’s gained a couple of pounds since my other dog went to the bridge, Mom’s overcompensating I guess.

[Susan J]

Can anyone in here help me.
My little Bella is a pug/king Charles Cavilier x, since having her spade she has started suffering with anal gland problems. I first took her to the vets to have them done then a week later she was showing the same symptoms so then took her to a groomer who stated they were full again, indeed she was fine when I bought her home but about a week later was showing signs again even though we had put her on a kibble diet with no extra meat. That doesn’t seem to be working either although she does have episodes where she seem s to clear them and the metallic smell goes but only momentarily for a few days before its back again. I’ve read exercise helps but need to find what’s causing this in the first place …..can anyone help me please

[DogFoodie]

Hi Bryana,

I also have a Golden who started out much the same way as yours. I believe the vaccinations may have contributed to some of his early issues. It was my intention to spread vaccines out and I recall once the vet acted like, “Oops, I actually got a combo vaccine ready.” Of course, I let it go. I wish that I had insisted and that I hadn’t gotten unnecessary vaccines. My Golden had an infection in each ear at just a few months old and was at the vet sick with lethargy and diarrhea. I suspected vaccinosis. Yes, the vet put him on the I/D garbage as well. Since I can’t change that now, I only vaccinate for rabies and I titer for immunity to core vaccines.

As for food, my Golden had digestive issues as a young pup also. It seemed everything gave him diarrhea. Plain canned pumpkin can help firm up loose stool. Goldens are known for having sensitive stomachs and food intolerance / allergy issues. I’ve determined that my Golden has food intolerance issues. He cannot have fish, flax, tomato, chickpeas or lentils. He does better with moderate protein, fat and carbs and a bit lower fiber. I’m not suggesting your Golden has these same intolerance / allergy issues, but it’s my guess he’s intolerant of something and what you’re saying is the end product. You have to figure out what they are, which is the tricky part and it takes a lot of time. Can you compare any ingredients in the food he was eating too see if there are common ingredient that could be the culprit?

Also, your Golden is a large breed puppy that has unique nutritional requirements. You must feed him a controlled level of Calcium. You should also avoid over-exercising him to avoid stressing growing joints and you should also keep him lean while he’s growing.

Here’s a link to another thread in the forum that explains this in more detail, read the first few pages at least: /forums/topic/large-and-giant-breed-puppy-nutrition/

On page 36, there is a Google document with a list of foods with appropriate Calcium levels for large and giant breed puppies. It was posted on 10/22/2013, at 4:22 PM by Hound Dog Mom. You should choose a food from this list: /forums/topic/large-and-giant-breed-puppy-nutrition/page/36

One food in particular that I might suggest is Nature’s Variety Instinct Limited Ingredient Diet Turkey.

[Walt R]

Thanks for your follow up. Yes, i have been adding probiotics to his food and will continue to do so. I will also watch the stools to see what happens and adjust per your recommendations.

We truly do not know if he must have fish based foods or not. All i have to go on are all the various foods we tried when we first got him. We tried a LOT of different foods due to the bad gas. I really can’t even recall all the different brands and types (beef vs. chicken, etc). I know we tried several… and once we go to the fish, problem solved. Gas was gone, dog was far more energetic and his fur was looking great. It took many months and just like that… life was good for everyone until about 3 months ago and now i can hardly stand to let the boy sleep next to me because the breath is too much. It smells like the Frito and it literally makes me ill from headaches to stomach. My wife and son are not as affected but they too smell it.

Anyhow, it is only because of our experiences when we first got him, that i start with the Trout/Salmon vs. Bison or Lamb (2 meats i think we did not try).

If you have recommendations for an actual food/type, I’m wide open to suggestions.

Part of the problem i have… seems that every food has “something” we need to watch for. Peas, Potatoes, Sweet Potatoes, Legumes, Yeast, Oats, Grains, etc. So it’s hard trying to figure out where to start.

Unfortunately, money is a factor. Zignature is at the very high end of what i can afford if this turns out to be the new food of choice. I also know that due to lifestyle constraints, i need to stick with dry dog food. Again, convenience is a factor. Hope that doesn’t sound insensitive.

He’s been doing great for over 2 years and all of a sudden, something changed. I’m sure we’ll once again find the right food and fix whatever is going on. I just dread that this may take months.

So, thanks again for the advise. If you have any specific recommendations or 3 for brands/formulas… i will put them on my list in case the Zignature does not work out.

Thanks again.

Walt

[Walt R]

HI. I gave my bud another medicated bath today followed by a regular shampoo Fresh N Clean that we like. He was smelling good. I also cleaned the carpets and changed out the bed linen.

He laid down at the foot of the bed and a deep breath was let out as he was going to sleep. UGH… it smelled so bad. It’s the smell that I’m having a really hard time with.

That to me was indeed confirmation it’s internal, not external, and through licking he’s transferring to the external.

So, based on readings and feedback from others, i got a bag of the Zignature Trout and Salmon. I’m thinking now that, also based on readings here, that his yeast infection is internal which is possible.

I also put 1 teaspoon of baking soda per 1 liter of water into his 2 water bowls and will do this for a few days.

My question now changes.

He’s on the Purina Select Salmon food. I am switching him to the Zignature Trout and Salmon. How much of a wean off do i need to do? Meaning, do i do 50/50 of old food to new food for 3 or 4 days and then Zignature after? Can i move faster?

Are there any signs i should be looking for that would indicate we are moving too fast with the switching of the food, such as gas or loose stools, sleepiness, etc?

Once again, thanks everyone for your continued help.

[Liz S]

Really need some help here. My moms chihuahua just turned 10 years old. A few months ago at her check up she had everything checked ( and more since she’s considered senior now ) – as well as blood work. Everything came back fine.
Brief back story: her old vet whom she went to for over 10 years and cared for many pets, told her a few years ago that although her ( Qtip is her name ) breath was REALLY, REALLY BAD, and her teeth were as well, she wasn’t in any pain. That dogs don’t have pain when they get cavities etc. BS!!!! She had never had a teeth cleaning. I was so upset. But my mom trusted him. * Please NO COMMENTS about how she should have had her teeth cleaned several times by now. * —- I know that. My mom now does too. And please no comments about her.

Fast forward to her check up a few months ago at MY vet. I recommended her to mine. I’d been with them for about 2 years and am happy with them for the most part. One of the reasons I also bring all my furbabies there is they treat ferrets. I have 4. Couldn’t find any other vet that took them.

They discovered Qtip has a small heart palpitation. And of course we spoke of her teeth/gums etc. Of course they said she absolutely needs a cleaning and teeth pulled. But they won’t do the anesthesia until they do an MRI. Which I totally understand and agree! Apparently they don’t have an MRI machine on site. So between the cleaning, extra time for pulling teeth, anesthesia and a truck having to come with an MRI machine the cost is going to be outrageous. I know it would’ve been either way but the mobile MRI added a lot of money.

*Please, no comments on ” if you can’t afford a pet don’t get one. Or have a savings account for things like this. ” * —- My mom knows this. I know this! My family ( fiance and toddler ) ourselves have 2 cats, 3 dogs and 4 ferrets. And after caring for a sick ferret for 9 months this past year we understand the extra costs that may come.

I’m just wondering if anyone has any advice. Similar situations. Etc. I guess I’ll call for her and get a breakdown of everything. I should probably call around and see if any other vets have an MRI machine on site or whatever else I can find out about saving some money on this. I want to help my mom. She has an extremely rare tumor and her husband is a truck driver and is almost never home. I’m just looking for any help/ideas you guys might have.

Breaks my heart seeing Qtips mouth :'( – breaks my moms too but there are other things going on financially that aren’t her fault.

Thanks in advance and thanks for reading

[Walt R]

Thanks all for your suggestions. I have been doing the antifungal shampoo every 2 days for the past week and I have not notice much difference. I also got a spray for the paws but that too has not helped. I did supplement his food with probiotic powder but again, no change. In fact, I want to say it’s worse.

I am thoroughly convinced his issue is INSIDE… that it’s in his saliva, in his mouth. He licks himself and then it gets on the bed linens and then they smell too.

The most convincing reason why I think it’s his mouth/insides… when he takes a deep breath and breathes out…. the fritos smell is huge. almost as bad as bad gas.

I’m very sensitive to this which is why it’s a problem.

Anyhow… I agree, that I need to start with food.

Unfortunately it’s challenging to spend $50 on a bag of dog food. Time is limited too with how much I work.

I don’t mean to sound insensitive, but for now, I want to remain with dry food.

There are 100’s of makes/formula’s out there. Something has to work.

As mentioned previously, when we got him we tried many of the regular brand foods and everything made his coat smell and he had bad gas. We stumbled upon the Purina Pro Plan Select Salmon formula and life was good for nearly 2 years. We had small bouts of this frito breath smell, but it would go away. This time… it’s not.

Can anyone recommend other dry dog foods to try?

I have read… no potatoes, sweet potatoes, grains, peas, sugars, yeasts, etc… but it seems no matter what I look at, one of these ingredentis in in the food. Sometimes it’s 7 or 8 ingredients down the list…

Which prompts the next question… if the potatos or peas are 7 ingredients down… do I need to be concerned?

I do not have a distributor near me for Victors. I was recommend Blue Wilderness but it has the Peas and Potatoes. I was also recommended Zignature Trout/Salmon but it too has peas further down the list.

Any other thoughts?

I don’t mind buy a 6lb bag here and there and start trying to find the right ones again. But it’s challenging with there being so many to choose from.

Thanks again for all your help. I will continue on with the shampoos, probiotics, etc…

[DogFoodie]

Hi Samantha,

Sweet little Pennie has had some challenges. I bet she’s been lonely. I’m sorry that the elderly gentleman had to release her, but am glad she has found a living home with you. I hope he’s doing OK without her.

When it comes to fish, I feel your pain. It’s everywhere. I’ve tried several different types of fishes and fish oils, but my dog reacted to all of them. It is very difficult to find a fish free food. I’ll be reading an ingredient panel and think it looks good and then down at the bottom of the list I’ll see menhaden meal or salmon oil. It’s frustrating, I know. My dog has some other intolerances that make more challenging.

If I’m not mistaken, the only Victor that’s an option is Lamb & Brown Rice. That’s quite a step down from Orijen Six Fish. I have used, with great success, Nature’s Variety Instinct Limited Ingredient Diets. I know there are more options than those I’ll list, but those that I’ve found have to exclude other ingredients beyond fish…, so a couple more recommendations are Addiction Viva La Venison, Acana Duck & Bartlett Pear (the original, not the Singles), The Honest Kitchen Thrive, and Canidae Pure Sky (I HATE that it’s a Diamond product, but it works for my dog so I use it sparingly) and Wysong Fundamentals.

I’ll see what others I can come up with.

[Akari_32]

Food for the next 72 days!

http://i765.photobucket.com/albums/xx294/Akari53/9ED9755D-F378-42C5-8076-CDC2820623C0_zpsinsoiy6d.jpg

The single 5.5 oz cans on the left are for raw in the morning and and a can at night. The rest of the meals are 3oz cans in the morning and 5.5 oz cans at night. Two funny combinations that’s happened during sorting:

Wellness in the morning, 9Lives at night:

http://i765.photobucket.com/albums/xx294/Akari53/63C91AD6-7959-41F4-B1EE-4B00423A09AF_zps90rbtcqp.jpg

And raw in the morning and Friskies Sausesations at night:

http://i765.photobucket.com/albums/xx294/Akari53/BBD4B1CC-ADCF-4DAC-8021-A5D1ED5F6BF3_zpsfmr8rsvk.jpg

I can’t decide which is worse LOL Only at my house…. Both of these are the last cans, Btw. I try to spread out the super junk as much as I can, that why I still have these. The rest of his food is good, though! Or at least decent for the most part lol

Halo Impulse, Wellness, Authority Flaked Turkey, some sort of Blue Buffalo Healthy Gourmet, Newmans Own, Sheba, my two selected Friskies Special Diet and Fancy Feast varieties each. Oh, and some Insticnt Pride. I think there may be one more, but I’m not sure… lol

[Sabema]

I can’t tell you how helpful this topic thread has been. My Tucker has been dealing with ‘the gulps’ for almost 4 years now.

At first the vet though it was a heart issue so he was extensively tested. (He never has a really bad episode while we’re actually at the vet’s office.) All results came back normal. Kennel Cough has been given as a diagnosis so many times I’ve lost count. Multiple X-rays, ultra-sounds, barium tests, scopes all with no real results or answers.

His episodes usually come once every 3 months, always in the evening. I’ve found that giving him a Benadryl and Pepcid immediately when I notice the symptoms begin can help. Also, I burp him after every meal and constantly when he’s having a really panicked episode where he’ll look for ANYTHING to consume.

He’s currently in day 4 of a longer than normal episode and we’re both exhausted. I can’t believe so many people experience this with their dogs and so few vets have ever heard of it. It can be really disheartening, it’s so scary to experience (for both of us). We have another appointment with a specialist in two weeks – I’m taking this thread with me since it has so much good information. Sincerely, thank you so much for everyone who has posted. I’m really at my wits-end and desperately looking for some answers.

• This reply was modified 10 years, 12 months ago by Sabema.

[Dog_Obsessed]

Interesting. I had seen that AvoDerm had avocado in it. It has a very small amount of avocado oil in it. Here’s what the ASPCA says about the use of avocado in dog food:

I noticed your avocado information in the recent issue of ASPCA News Alert. Do you have any information about the safety of avocado in pet food?

– Nicole K.

Good question, Nicole. As you read in News Alert, avocado leaves, fruit, seeds and bark contain a toxic principle known as Persin. The Guatemalan variety, a common one found in stores, appears to be the most problematic. Other strains of avocado can have different degrees of toxic potential.

Avocado is sometimes included in pet foods for nutritional benefit. We would generally not expect avocado meal or oil present in commercial pet foods to pose a hazard to dogs and cats, but we advise against giving avocado flesh or peel to dogs and cats, as mild stomach upset may occur if the animal eats a significant amount. Ingestion of the pit can lead to obstruction in the gastrointestinal tract, which is a serious situation requiring urgent veterinary care.

First they say that it contains Persin, which is toxic to dogs, and then they say that besides the pit, the biggest risk is stomach upset. And BCnut said that the biggest risk, besides the pit, was the fat. Now I’m confused.

[Cheryl Pepper Millie Sophie]

I know that I can get some advice from the knowledgeable people on this site.
I haven’t posted in sometime but the regulars were very helpful when my Pepper came to me 3 years ago.
We have been through MANY ILLNESSES-I have fought for my angel every step of the way-but as she is aging the chronic inflammation she suffers from reared it’s ugly head again.
I have tried many foods and she adjusted to the amicus senior kibble that I would give her soaked of course wit a topper of boiled organic chicken or grassed beef or bison.
she was doing fine. A few weeks back the regurgitation and then vomiting started along with a touch of diarrhea.
Blood work x-rays and ultrasound showed nothing- next step endoscopy which her internist is not too anxious to do given her age & her numerous other health issues.
He feels it is her diet and you guessed it wants me to try the veterinary prescription foods-now understand I am not trying to get in a battle with these vets-my Pepper is my main concern & if this junk will keep her going I WILL DO IT. I looked at the Royal Canin Hydrolyzed Protein wet & dry & got sick when I read the ingredients!!!
Can anyone guide me in an alternative-she has been eating organic pumpkin or sweet potato with organic ground turkey (as DR. Karen Becker) suggests, but I can’t keep her on this forever- I thought the Honest Kitchen base mix might work but she threw that up also.
I asked the Dr to put her on Reglan because I feel Pepper has a motility issue-she doesn’t digest her food completely, she has been on the Reglan since Monday & hasn’t reguritated or vomited. I know there are advocates of raw feeding, but, to me & I may be very wrong -she is just too old to start her on raw feeding.
I think since she is taking the Reglan, I may try to re-introduce a tsp. of the Honest Kitchen grain-free base mix again and see what happens.
Thank you for any help anyone may give.
Cheryl,Pepper & Mille-Belle

[Bobby dog]

Hi kelsey s:
Wal-Mart has Pure Balance stews for $1/can and small tubs for 68 cents each. Here’s a thread that has suggestions for kibble sold at Wal-Mart. There is also info on where to find coupons for a few of them:
/forums/topic/need-advice-about-walmart-brands/

Like Akari suggested, stop by the coupon thread for sale info. Come over to the cat food thread, we have lots of budget friendly suggestions for cat food there. 😉

Consider rotational feeding. I feed my dog this way so he gets a healthy variety. Find at least three different brands of food with different carb and protein sources that your dogs do well on and like eating. Once your dog is used to eating a variety you never have to worry about a recipe changing and the possibility of your dog not liking it, a recall (can happen to any food at any time), or your food just not being available. The added benefit is that you can take advantage of sales and coupons to help with your budget. You can read more about it here:
/frequently-asked-questions/diet-rotation-for-dogs/

Edit: Also check out Tractor Supply and local feed, hardware, or garden supply stores. One line of food I like that you might find at feed stores is PMI Nutrition. If you can find it check out the Exclusive and Infinia lines. Here’s a store locator: http://www.pminutrition.com/main.html
Tractor Supply has 4Health kibble and canned food (99 cents). I would recommend the GF turkey, beef, or whitefish kibbles. Print a list of the 3, 4, and 5 star foods from the review side and take them with you to where you shop for food to see what is available within your budget.
3 star food list: /dog-food-reviews/dry/3-star/
4 star food list: /dog-food-reviews/dry/4-star/
5 star food list: /dog-food-reviews/dry/5-star/

• This reply was modified 11 years ago by Bobby dog.

[Akari_32]

I would suggest you take up couponing. It’s easy, as long as you can do a little math and spare some time to search for deals. I get a lot of high quality food for $1 a pound and less. It’s a great way to take advantage of sales. Check out the thread i started on that. Everyone shares good coupons they find, and we all share our shopping sprees.

/forums/topic/coupons/

If you don’t have the time for that, Pure Balance is a pretty good food, as is Purina Beyond (a bit more expensive, but it’s higher calorie, so you feed considerably less), Rachael Ray Zero Grain or Simply Nourish (available only at PetSmart). There’s also Nutrisource, Dr Tims and Victors if you can find them, and Wellness isn’t too bad with the coupons they usually have right on their website if you don’t mind buying several small bags.

Momma dog will need to be on a good puppy food, and she will need to eat more than usual. I also urge you to get her spayed after her puppies are weened, and also ensure the pups are placed in homes where they will be spayed and neutered as well. They will live longer, healthier lives when spayed and neutered 🙂

As for the cats, it’s best to get them on canned food, but not all cats will eat it. Go for as high protein and low carb as possible. A pretty good “rule” to go by: if they make good dog food, they make good cat food. Here is another thread of mine, dealing with cat foods:

/forums/topic/cat-food-recommendations/

[Dori]

Dog Obsessed. Just to reiterate what Bobby dog just said. Through the years my dogs, most especially Hannah of late, have had X-rays, CT scans, MRI’s. Never has she she or any of my dogs been sedated. I guess I missed that part of your post. Jeesh! I’ve got to stop skimming through posts and threads and start reading word for word. I just want to add that very few dogs fit the description of being extraordinarily calm for any testing. They usually have the vet and a couple of techs in the room. The techs hold the dog in position as the vet takes the films or whatever. Or another tech take the film or whatever. Unless it’s a very small practice that you take her to and there aren’t enough hands on board to do the job.

[theBCnut]

The wormer should have already cleared his system, so it shouldn’t have been that, but there are any number of reasons that dogs vomit. After a dog has vomited, they should have no food or water for a few hours, then give about 1 oz of water and see if they keep it down, if so then they can have a little more water about an hour later and then SLOWLY reintroduce food and regular water. If they vomit again after leaving them with no food and water for a few hours, they should see a vet. That’s a sign of a blockage, or other serious condition.

[theBCnut]

I’ve always heard about how mineral profile is so important with crystal formation, but for dogs and cats, unless you go into reading research papers, there isn’t much info out there about specifics. If you are reading about standard care for goats or sheep, you can’t help but learn that struvite crystals form when the calcium/phosphorus ratio is off from feeding high grain diets(would be the same when feeding meat without adequate bone, I suspect). In sheep and goats, they recommend keeping the C:P to at least 2:1. I wonder why it’s so much easier to get these kinds of preventive recommendations for large animals than for small.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi Jessica –

If you’re an Editor’s Choice member check out theEditor’s Choice Puppy Foods – there’s a list of foods appropriate for large breed puppies.

If you’re not an Editor’s Choice member, there’s a large breed puppy thread in the general forum area that can be found here.

There a few different routes you could take to try and get to the bottom of the loose stool issue. First and foremost (if you haven’t done this already) be sure to get a stool sample to the vet. Coccidia is very common in puppies and will cause loose stool. If you can rule out parasites, you can then look into switching foods and/or supplementation. You can try simply switching to a different brand, if this doesn’t work you may need to consider a food intolerance and start trying foods without ingredients that are common culprits (e.g. chicken, grains, etc.). You may also wish to try supplementing with a good quality probiotic and/or adding some additional fiber (a spoonful or two of plain canned pumpkin usually works well).

Good luck!

[Dori]

frostyrockyk. Your vets can make all the faces that they would like, the decision on what is given to your dog is yours, not theirs!!!! Whether it’s vaccines or food, it’s your decision. Just stand strong. Your dog has already had all the vaccines it needs. You can have them do titers if you wish though they are not cheap. The only acception to no vaccines is the rabies vaccine. It’s required by law. Just make sure what the county that you live in requires. I have heard that there are a few counties around the country that will accept titers for the rabies vaccine but, personally, that has not been my experience. Some are one year and others just require three year. Mind you it’s the exact same vaccine, it’s the paperwork and tag that changes. If you can get away with the three year rabie’s vaccine then that means less chemicals going into your dog. My vets are not always crazy about my choices for my dogs but they know they are my dogs and not theirs. I don’t do vaccines other than the three year rabies and I feed raw diet. The vets don’t like it but I could care less what they like and what they don’t.

[Walt R]

Thank you all for your suggestions. Four questions. First, if the issue is possibly a yeast infection on his paws, is it spread then via his licking and that is why the bed linens smell so bad (in addition to his feet) or is it possible that the issue is the saliva and as he licks his feet he’s also licking the blankets because he DOES lick the blankets, floors and everything else?

Secondly, there have been some recommendation for food/changing diet. Can anyone recommend a specific brand/formula (or 4) that is a touch on the less expensive side? Simply put, we are not in a position to spend $70 or $80 for a 30lb bag of food. We are more in the $30 – $40 range for 30 pound bags of premium foods and then stock up when it goes on sale.

Third, i see a lot about foot baths with recommendations for for specific product lines as well as home made remedies such as peroxide, vinegar, iodine and water (various combinations, I’d have to go back and look for the exact recipes.) Can anyone recommend one over the other or have a specific product in mind? My only concern about iodine is whether it will stain his white paws and/or the bath tub.

Lastly, i actually enjoy bathing the dog, blow drying, grooming him. When we got him he was deathly afraid of adult males. The first thing we as a family did was bath him and then i took over from there. It took a bit but now we are absolute buds. Unfortunately if you put him in a room with my wife on one side and me on the other and we both call him, she wins. She likely always will, but that does not mean i’ll ever stop trying! 🙂 So, i enjoy the time with him, caring for him, bathing him, etc… because i can tell over the past 2 years that it’s made huge inroads with trust, amongst many other things.

Thanks again for allow in my questions and thank you too so very much for the idea’s and suggestions.

Walt

[Nancy M]

theBCnut,

Gee, I’ve been keeping you pretty busy haven’t I? I apologize. I’m just rather flabbergasted over yet another issue with this puppy. As you mentioned, I think it’s got to be something with this food. Along with the excessive stools, I think pup and I would be better off with putting him back on the food he came to me on, IF I CAN FIND SOME IN STOCK SOMEWHERE. I don’t think this TOTW is working well for him right now. Strange thing too, I just fed him his 3rd meal of the day, and he’s already looking around for something else to eat. Don’t think this stuff is satisfying him for some reason, amongst other issues. The feeding guidelines for his age and weight calls for 1 1/4 c – 2 cups a day. He’s eating 1 1/2, wanting more, but pooping it out almost as fast as he’s eating it. And his little belly is just FULL. I can’t believe the digestion process and drinking all this water, even though that has decreased “some”, isn’t overworking his system! I don’t think the vet will have much to offer really, but I will probably take him in just to get him checked over, just to be on the safe side.

This is crazy…….thanks again for spending your time with me!
Nancy

[Dori]

Actually a dog the size of Sadie, carrying around an extra 2 to 3 pounds is a lot of weight. Isn’t there any way that they can have Sadie eat all her meals away from the other dogs. Would your parents be open to the idea of not free feeding the dogs. Put their food down, feeding Sadie in a separate area and leaving it down for 15 to 20 minutes and then pick up the bowls regardless of how much they ate. Even if they ate none of it. If they do that for both their meals they can have them retrained in a few days to eat their food as soon as the bowls are put down. Then there is no worry as to who’s eating whose food or how much each are getting. They can put their food bowls down as soon as they get up, leave down while they are getting ready for work and just before they leave pick up all the bowls. Do the same at dinner time. The dogs are taking their time eating because they know there will always be food around. Once they realize that when there is food available if they don’t eat, it’s going to disappear. Really is the best way to feed dogs regardless of any situation.

• This reply was modified 11 years ago by Dori.

[Walt R]

Hi. We got a rescue dog about 3 years back. It took us nearly a year before we found food that he liked and we liked. His issue was that he was always stinky even though an indoor dog. He also had room clearing gas. It was truly awful. We tried many different varieties/blends of dog food and he was, at one point, being bathed weekly it was that bad. But, we finally found the Purina Pro Plan Select Sensitive with the Salmon. It took only a matter of days and the gas was gone. In addition, he no longer smelled bad all the time and his baths were now 8 – 10 weeks apart. The dog is a pointer mix and is now pushing 5 years old. He has always been a dog that likes to lick. You walk past him or he you and out comes that tongue. He’ll get ya. LOL. He also licks the sheets, and carpet and his feet, etc. It’s never been a problem for us.

Anyhow, over the past 6 months something has changed. His feet start to smell like Frito’s. But, so do the bed linens and other things, because of his licking. His breath is not bad. If he licks your hand, it’s not bad. But over time, it adds up and we’re having a hard time with it. In addition, because of this, what becomes, an over powering smell of Fritos… he’s back to being bathed every 2 weeks.

His overall coat smells fine. His head and neck are fine. His feet on the other hand… UGH. Same with the bed linens and where he likes to sleep throughout the day.

I can’t help but think it’s his food.

Again, his breath is fine. His coat (other than feet) are fine. Still no gas and he still likes the food.

I don’t know if there is a vitamin supplement we should give him, if there are breath drops that i see online that we can give him or if we should change food.

Unfortunately, i have 100lbs of his food in the basement as it recently went on sale at $10 off per bag. It was hard to pass up. Now… I may be regretting that decision.

So, i found this site. I read up on the Pro Plan Select and it didn’t get very good reviews. Out of the nearly 200 brands/formula’s posted as 4 stars and above, Purina wasn’t even on the list.

A friend has recommended Zsignature Trout/Salmon, but OMGoodness, that is seriously expensive food.

So i thought i would reach out here in this forum and ask if anyone else has experienced this kind of thing.

I do not think the dog has any yeast infections. He doesn’t have dry, red or cracked feet and there aren’t sores on his body. He had a vet check in October and everything is good. Even his teeth are good.

I did read though, that the Pro Plan Sensitive Salmon does contain yeast. So, could that be it? The yeast is in his saliva, he’s licking thinking things and then the Yeast is fermenting for lack of a better expression?

And if that is maybe the source of the issue, why now? Why after being on this food for over 2 years, would this happen now?

And again i ask, if it’s possible it’s the yeast from the food, which clearly isn’t harming him… would breath drops work, or a vitamin of some kind and if not… are there recommendations for FISH based foods that we can try? Fish based food so far is the only one, that resolves his coat and gas issues.

Sorry for being long winded and thank you for any help you can provide.

Walt

[Cristi C]

Molzy, we had problems like this with our cat. No vet could help us. She chronically threw up but had no other problems. Her appetite was fine but her weight was very light. She was hyper and nervous. As she aged, she began to have more problems besides her vomiting and nerves: she began to lose all her fur, gulped a lot in the evenings, and had developed focal seizures in her face (also in the evenings). At his point we switched her to a grain-free diet, made in the USA, and changed her litter from corn to wheat. She calmed down, her vomiting decreased, and her fur began to grow back–but her gulping got harder and more frequent and her seizures, more frequent as well, began to spread to her front legs. Last week we replaced her wheat litter with clay litter. The gulping has stopped, the seizures stopped, and she is calmer and happier than I have ever seen her.

In other words, the key to our cat’s good health was removing her from all contact with grains. Not only can she not eat them, she cannot touch them. She eats Core Wellness foods But here’s the thing: she can only eat the fish variety. No poultry or other meats. I believe it is because poultry and other meats eat grains. And I think the problem is toxins, whether GMO, fungus, or pesticide, in those grains. Our cat is just the canary in the coal mine.

[Nancy M]

Thanks for your opinion BCnut, I tend to agree with you. I wonder why they make this puppy formula with such a high fiber; seems like all pups would have this same problem. Although I have noticed a little slow down in water consumption since yesterday afternoon.,Maybe this is a form of adjustment, or maybe it’s not really a good thing. I’ll have to watch him closely today before I decide to do something different. I have cut back on the amount of each feeding though, so maybe that’s helping. Fortunately, I am readily available to him, and make it a regular routine in going outside to relieve himself, we just have to do it more often. Although I have wondered how this affects his urinary system as well. He’s been really doing great on potty training since I got him and my particular set up is much easier than most situations. He just goes to the door and I’m right there to let him out and he’s right there in the spot he needs to go.

I hate to change him back to the Victor; just another change for him right now, plus the holidays are not a good time to have an upset puppy. I might try to locate a small bag of it though and reduce the amount of this new food for awhile longer though. Or maybe replacing some of the dry, with the same formula in the canned, might help too. One or the other should help, without tummy upset, I hope.,

Thanks again for responding……..
Nancy

[Kayla]

I’m so worried, this never happened to a Dog that I ever had before! He isn’t sick or anything. I just took him about again and he pooped again (stool still is normal) and only one of those little suckers was there! I took a picture…only to show Vet if I need too.

What should I do now? Is it serious? I read online that they need to be seen by a vet for treatment asap.

I found this?

Should I try this medication or vet?

[Dori]

Hi Akari. Sorry, I don’t know how I missed this entire thread other than to say life gets crazy around the holidays.

You mentioned that Ginger weighs 11.2 lbs. Has you vet told you what her optimum weight should be? It is very very important to keep dogs that have musculoskeletal problems on the thin and trim side. Every added ounce overweight adds to their pain and discomfort.

But this is really what I wanted to tell you. You say that you are dumping the glucosamine/chondroitin in her food. Glucosamine/Chondroitin should never be given with food. It most definitely needs to be given either one hour before food or two hours after. Otherwise it WILL NOT WORK! That is one of the main reasons why foods that are marketed as being good for dogs with arthritis and contain glucosamine/chondroitin don’t work. They also don’t put enough in to be beneficial but even if they did, the supplement must be given one hour before meals or two hours after twice a day or more often if indicated. That could very well be the reason you are not seeing any improvement with Ginger even though you are giving her the supplement.

Just trying to help.

If you do decide to go with the Purina JM you still need to give the supplement one hour before her meals or two hours after. I don’t have an opinion on the food. Obviously you know it’s not a great food by anyone’s definition but you have financial constraints and are doing the best your pocket book will allow. She’s a senior dog that you don’t have a lot of history about. If you can find one single food that she does well on, give her the supplement the way it is suppose to be given, then I would do that for the remainder of her life. The object is to find some quality to her life. It’s not about how many years you can add to her life, the concern is how well she gets to live the time she has left in her life. She obviously has musculoskeletal issues, she’s had them since you got her and since there’s no way to really know what happened to her before you got her to know what exactly is wrong with her or to do expensive CT scans, X-rays, MRI’s, surgeries, if they are indeed called for, you do the best you can through a food that doesn’t upset her digestive system and give her supplements. My advice to you would be, for right now, to keep her on the Wellness that you are feeding her before you switch her food since her tummy seems to be doing better and start the supplement as it’s suppose to be given and see it it makes a difference. I think it will. Another supplement that you can give her, if money allows you to, is Sam-e. Though it’s marketed as a liver support supplement it is a great anti-inflammatory. You would still need to give her the glucosamin/chondroitin. Sorry my post is so long I was just upset with myself for not noticing your thread on this issue and just happened to catch the sentence where you mention putting the supplement in her food bow.

• This reply was modified 11 years ago by Dori.

[Dori]

Bobby dog. I have seen the info on line and also in the pamphlet that comes in the box. Probably would say it on Novartis’s site. Says it kills 5% of adult fleas on the dog. It’s not a particularly large amount of adult fleas at all but better than none I suppose. HW, flea larvae and all the worms it covers is really more my concern. Adult fleas you can pretty easily get rid of if caught fast enough in the bath I think or would hope so from what some of the posters have said. Just glad I haven’t had to worry about fleas and, again, I hope I haven’t jinxed myself and the girls. I have a real aversion to insects of any sort. YUK!!!!!!!

There are other ingredients in Sentinel Spectrum so I’m just thinking that I don’t know which of the ingredients would kill 5% of the adult fleas. Bobby dog, the info is on Sentinelpet.com I just went to their web site to make sure I had read it correctly.

• This reply was modified 11 years ago by Dori.
• This reply was modified 11 years ago by Dori.
• This reply was modified 11 years ago by Dori.

[Douglas E]

I have read this entire thread as well as similar ones. Look, other than broad brush strokes, animal nutrition has been much ignored for the majority of pet-human history. Heck, the same can be said for HUMAN nutrition. Only within the past 40 years has our nutrition become the topic of serious scientific inquiry. This has been a natural development in thought from deeper insights into cellular biology, biochemistry and immunology. The science of human nutrition is quite new.

How then can we expect to understand other species’ specific nutritional needs? We hardly understand the human organism yet in that regard. If human nutritional science is in its’ infancy, canine nutrition is only embryonic. That research it further complicated by gross breed differences, historically poor food quality diets, congenital and/our genetic weaknesses from severely poor breeding, medical thought that simply treats symptoms and a new problem- canine geriatrics.

A dog in the wild would typically have a life expectancy less than half of our pets’. Nutritional deficiency plays a major part in that mortality. And no, an all raw and only carnivorous diet is not what a dog would get in the wild. While dogs are highly adapted to having a majority of the diet be animal proteins, they have a much greater variety. Even from only consuming prey animals, they will eat the contents of those animals’ intestines and stomach(s) which would include “probiotics,” yeasts (naturally occurring intestinal fauna,) and various vagetation such as primitive grains. Those grains would be partially digested, yes, so raw gains would likely be less digestible. Canines would also eat the high fat organ meats, hair, skin and bone. It is important to note that the high need of calcium, as well as other bone minerals, for dogs is well noted these days. It is necessary nutritionally for Canines to occaisionally consume vegetable, or even mineral, matter. Not only must they do so to enable gut function, they must do so for biological need. Not all needs are met by prey. This is why in the absence of adequate herbivorous prey, dogs will suplement by what pet owners would consider pica.

All that being said (now that I have presented myself in matters vegetable, animal, and mineral the Very Model of a Modern Major General, ) the answers are not simple. But the guidelines are.

1. Use common sense, canine nutrition is imperfect at best
2. Do not presume to be an expert, or that human remedy necessarily applies
3. Do not rely on diet to cure medical conditions that may really be microbial or parastic infections, disease or biological defecit aside from nutrition
4. Realize that isolating an immunological response, whether from allergic reaction or not, is a difficult and time consuming process
5. Use keen observation when using any new food source or additive, including veterinarian recommended treatments. Don’t simply go with the flow thinking that treatment course is the fix-it for sure (OK, preaching to the choir I think there…)
6. Each dog is as different biologically as we are. If it does improve health in some, it may not in others or it may actually be detrimental
7. A business, or product, that is intentionally or negligently harmful will not survive. Caveat Emptor
8. etc. etc. etc…

Here’s hoping great health to all you and all your furry families

D

[Naturella]

I am not getting a new dog anytime too soon, but this is good info to know, so just posting here so I can keep an eye on the thread! 🙂

[Akari_32]

I’m not looking at just the main ingredients. Yes, I think Brewers rice and corn gluten meal aren’t quality ingredients, but looking at the bigger picture, there’s a good amount of animal protein in the food, and elevated levels of omega, glucosamine and antioxidants that I could not achieve on my own. Patty, you’ve said yourself quality comes second, and using what works for each dog is the priority. I’m not looking for “this food has a couple questionable ingredients, it’s absolute garbarge,” I’m looking for objective replies on if this food does or does not do what it’s supposed to do. I know how to pick quality dog foods, but I’m really just beyond that at this point with Ginger. The poor thing needs something more than I’m doing right now, and I’m grasping for straws at this point.

I can’t afford to spend any more on supliments (and dog food) than I’m already spending, and if I dump anymore glucosamine pills on this dogs 1/2 cup of food, she’s going to think I’m nuts. It’s bitter and she hates it. That said, if there is a commercial, non-prescription food that doesn’t charge out the nose and does what this is supposed to do, by all means, suggest away. I’m looking at $15 a bag without coupons, or including shipping.

Btw, have you two *seen*, say, Hill’s joint food? Now *that* is nasty stuff. Purina looks like it’s made of gold compared to Hill’s. Just saying.

And Aimee, thank you for the link. I wish I knew half of what they were saying! Seems like products like this do actually work, or at least help, though.

Bobby Dog and Aimee, you’re right about rotating. I forget how long it takes to see results with joint supliments lol I hate to keep her one food, but I think minimal switching around is best. Once I find something for her I like, I will have to just keep her on it.

[theBCnut]

Even if you get freezes, you still need to give heartworm prevention again one month after the last possible exposure. If you don’t get freezes, you are supposed to be able to watch the temp and stop giving when the temp is consistantly lower than whatever temp the larva need to develop. I can never remember what that temp is supposed to be, because whatever it is, we don’t stay cold enough long enough here. But the info is here on another heartworm med thread, if you want to search for it.

[Dori]

I’m with you Marie. I REALLY dislike SoJos. THK is the only dehydrated food that I really really like. I have used others but always go back to THK and keep in rotation. Even a couple of my local pet stores that carry Sojos don’t recommend the food. They’re small stores so they can pretty much try all the food in the store (not the owners so no choice as to what they carry) and they dislike the Sojos.

I’d like to add on the freeze dried and dehydrated foods in general that I have fed, and continue to feed, I have never seen any undigested bits in any of my three girls poop. I check all of their poop every single time. I sometimes wonder if people seeing identifiable bits of ingredients in their dogs poop if the dogs gut is not as healthy as it could be. Could it be that 90 – 95% of my dog’s meals over the past three years are raw causing a healthier gut and, therefore, able to digest pretty much digest everything and anything? I really don’t know. Just a thought I’ve wondered about.

Sorry about all the edits. I really should remember to read through my posts before hitting the submit button.

• This reply was modified 11 years ago by Dori.
• This reply was modified 11 years ago by Dori.
• This reply was modified 11 years ago by Dori.

[Nelson P]

Hi everyone,
It’s the first time I post on this thread but have been learning a lot from reading it (specially from HDM). So, first of all thanks! Now, hopefully you guys don’t mind if I ask for a little more help. I have a 3 months old Golden Retriever. I have been feeding him Royal Canin Golden Retriever Junior (recommended by the vet.) but as you all know, it’s not the best choice. I want to do better. Unfortunately I don’t have the time or money to feed him a proper raw meal. Not now, maybe in the future (who knows). Good Canned is also very expensive (maybe I can add it as a topper sometimes). So I have to stick with kibble. Would like to choose from HDM list but I live in Europe (Portugal) and we don’t have those brands here (stores or online) and buy it from a international online store would also be too expensive for the shipping. I had to look for other brands and try to stick with the guidelines I learn here. As sad as it may look I couldn’t find too many brands to choose from (there are plenty but not that good). Basically I found 2 options: Orijen/Acana large breed puppy (I know it’s borderline with the calcium levels) or Naturea. Naturea is a portuguese brand but they produce there food in a UK factory tucked into a rural area (as they stated in their website). They have the same Biologically Appropriate concept that Champions have. It’s possible none of you ever heard about this brand (I too didn’t know them until yesterday). I don’t know if I can post the website here for you guys to help me analyse their food so I’ll copy/past their Technical Information:

Composition:
Chicken (includes Fresh Deboned Chicken and Chicken Meal), Sweet Potato, Egg Powder,
Chicken Fat, Potato Protein, Lucerne, Linseed, Chicken Gravy, Salmon Oil, Minerals,
Vitamins, Glucosamine, Methylsulfonylmethane, Chondroitin Sulphate, Apple, Carrot,
Tomato, Spinach, Psyllium, Rosehips, Camomile, Burdock Root, Peppermint, Marigold,
Seaweed, Cranberry, Dandelion, Fructooligosaccharides, Aniseed, Fenugreek, Yucca
Schidigera Extract, Thyme, Marjoram, Oregano, Parsley, Sage.

Animal Ingredients (63%):
Chicken Meal (low ash) 31.17%
Fresh Deboned Chicken 13.85%
Egg Powder 8.22%
Chicken Fat 7.36%
Chicken Gravy 1.73%
Salmon Oil 0.86%

Typical Analysis:
Crude Protein 32%
Crude Fat 21%
Crude Fibre 3%
Moisture 8.5%
Carbohydrates 27.5%
Crude Ash 8%
Metabolisable Energy 387 kCal/100g
Calcium 1.21%
Phosphorus 1.04%

Coat, cardio & Joints:
Linoleic Acid (Omega 6) 3.09%
Linolenic Acid (Omega 3) 1.07%
Glucosamine 889 mg/kg
Chondroitin 625 mg/kg
Methylsulfonylmethane (MSM) 889 mg/kg

Other Vitamins, Amnio Acids & Minerals:
Vitamin A 25730 IU/kg
Vitamin D3 1730 IU/kg
Vitamin E (as alpha-tocopherol acetate) 231 IU/kg
Vitamin B1 10 mg/kg
Vitamin B2 23 mg/kg
Vitamin B6 10 mg/kg
Vitamin B12 127 mcg/kg
Biotin 323 mcg/kg
Folic acid 1.73 mg/kg
Niacin 35 mg/kg
Choline Chloride 240 mg/kg
Pantothenate 20 mg/kg
Potassium 1.04%
Sodium 0.36%
Chloride 0.63%
Magnesium 0.1%
Zinc (as zinc sulphate monohydrate) 285 mg/kg
Zinc (as chelate of amino acids hydrate) 342 mg/kg
Copper (as cupric sulphate monohydrate) 41 mg/kg
Copper (as cupric chelate of amino acids hydrate) 51 mg/kg
Manganese (as manganous sulphate monohydrate) 112 mg/kg
Iron (as ferrous sulphate monohydrate) 309 mg/kg
Iron (as ferrous chelate of amino acids hydrate) 21 mg/kg
Iodine (as calcium iodate anhydrous) 1.58 mg/kg
Selenium (as sodium selenite) 0.51 mg/kg

Sorry for the long text. I need to decide on a food sooner than later to start the transition. In the future I would like to rotate different brands (If I can find good ones), and add toppers as suggested here. But for now I really have to decide. Origin, Naturea or other world available brand? Can you help me? So afraid to make the wrong choice. Any other advice on dog/puppy health would be great 🙂

P.S. As for the toppers, besides eggs, tinned sardines, plain yogurt, kefir, cottage cheese, and veggies what can I add without throwing off the balance?

[Bobby dog]

Kayla:
Some of the ingredients that would make me pass on this treat would be sorbitol, carrageenan, and artificial flavor.

The best thing to do is make your own treats. There are simple recipes that don’t take much time or too many ingredients. You can make biscuits, meatballs, or even jerky, and dried fruit/veggies in your oven. You can find treat recipes on the DFA forums or the Internet.

The next best thing to do is look for treats that only have a few ingredients that you easily recognize and don’t have to Google. Freeze dried treats or dried fruit/veggies would be examples of treats with minimal ingredients.

If I have to Google any or most of the ingredients of a treat chances are they are not what I want to feed my pets. I stay away from treats with added sugars, artificial flavors or colors, thickening agents, artificial preservatives, added starches, and probably some other things I can’t think of right now. Read those labels and know what you are feeding! 😉

[Susan]

Hi Melissa, thank-you for info….I’ll have to ask Patches vet if its Lymphocytic Plasmacytic Enteritis but on Patches lab report from his biopies its just says “Moderate to Chronic Lymphocytic Gastritis” not Lymphocytic Plasmacytic enteritis, God I hope it isnt, when I read about it, it doesnt sound good, when I looked it up there’s so many Lymphocytic this & Lymphocytic that…… I had to look up Lymphocytic Gastris in humans, comes up with Celiac & Helicobacter for humans….. I found 1 study done on 5 cats, 3 cats already had FIV & 2 cats had L/G helicobacter, they put them all together to see if the cats with a low immune FIV got infected with the Helicobacter, all 3 cats did catch H/B….. I spoke with 1 lady thats dog has got L/G her dog had to be treated with antibiotics 3 times to kill bacteria as the helicobacter kept coming back & then he was put on a steriod for just 6 weeks for the inflammation from the Helicobacter… when Patches vet rung with results he did mention something about a short course of steriods, there’s some inflammation but he didnt go into details….. he said Patch probably had this a long time & caught it when he was a pup, if the helicobacter was treated back then, he’d be a healthy dog now but it was never treated,……. so I’d say the helicobacter has done some damage now being left un treated for so long, poor boy..
Tylan isnt big here in Austrailia, but there’s one lady in Western Australia her vet orders in the Tylan & she has given me the details to give to my vet, she did say that she is buying Tylan online but in big quanties enough to last 3 years, a bit too much just yet..He’s on the low residue diet but I’ll have to ring Eukanuba & ask is it Gluten free, I wish he could eat potatos, it would make life easier & he could go on a grainfree diet kibble, Ive contacted Susan Lauten a pet nutritionist, I dont know if she is good but a few people from the IBD group use her when their dog cant eat vet prescription diets…
Ive read for humans, if I can find the right diet, you can get better…….
I suppose these vets will learn on Patch, as its rare, I hope so & he hasnt suffered for nothing..so when another dog comes in with Patches symtoms, they think twice & give the dog an Endoscope & biopies, I only done the Endoscope & biopies cause the ladies in the IBDogs group said being scoped & having biopies done is the only way i’ll find out whats happening with Patch, I just wish when I wanted Patched scoped last year the stupid lady vet listen & booked him in, she just said ur wasting ur money, they probably wont find nothing, he needs to be cut open & biopiesed, I saw her when I was picking up Patches Meds & I said did you see Patches results she said yes…. Im still angry about it all..