[Susan]

Hi, I’ve read it’s not good to just feed your dog a fish based diet/kibble, if feeding a kibble you should rotate between different meat proteins…. I was feeding an Australian kibble Meals For Mutts Sardines & Salmon in the Summer months then in the Winter months feeding Taste Of The Wild Sierra Mountain Roasted Lamb, then Under the Sun Pork kibble, now I’m feeding “Canidae” Life Stages kibble that’s Turkey, Lamb & Fish.
I like Canidae kibbles they’re are excellent for dogs with skin & stomach problems.
Canidae grain free Pure Sea is suppose to be excellent for dogs with food & skin allergies then there’s the Canidae Pure Land Bison, Pure Wild Boar, Pure Sky Duck, Pure Elements Lamb, Pure Meadow Chicken..
Rotate between a few different brands & if there’s a problem your dog isn’t on the same brand or same protein for too long cause your rotating between different brands..
My boy was eating Earthborn Holistic Ocean Fusion but the kibbles colour kept changing with each new batch from brown to black then he’d have real sloppy poos bad gas, I emailed Earthborn & the lady said they get different trucks of potatoes, sometimes rustic potatoes, brown, white, etc so the colour of the kibble was changing, I said but why is he having bad gas/wind pain & real sloppy poos, she couldn’t answer my question, then it occurred to me some truck loads of potatoes are more rotten or green then other truck loads & my boy has a very sensitive stomach, he has IBD & he can’t handle it, where a dog with a stronger stomach is fine…

[Kelly K]

I am so happy to have found this post but so sad to need it. My dog, Tucker, is such a trooper. About 2 weeks ago my boy started with a cough, just the odd cough here and there. In a couple of days I decided to take him to the vet, just before we left he coughed up blood and that was the first sign it was serious. Our vet took blood work and did x-rays and our vet was stymied by the results but didn’t think he had much of a chance but to be euthanized. He seemed perfectly healthy! She said we could try taking him to a veterinary hospital in the city staffed by specialists and surgeons and we drove there that night. Like Lyndzy’s and Carol’s dogs, he was diagnosed with Lung Lobe Torsion. If it was a primary condition and he made it through the night, he was given good odds with the surgery. There was no other option, that or euthanasia and so we went ahead with hope and love in our hearts (…and don’t forget the wallets). He pulled through the surgery really well, was getting the best care and it looked like he was going to come home early, when after 2 days the fluid draining from his chest tube turned from a clear pink to a strawberry milkshake colour and increased from 20-30 mls to over 100. It was chyle. I understand that the situation can resolve on its own sometimes and we are hoping. They took the chest tube out after a few days and sent him home anyway – his recovery is amazing considering he just had a lung removed! But at the first visit back an ultrasound showed the chyle is still building up.

He goes back tomorrow to get the staples removed and assess the situation. I am hoping against hope that it is resolved on its own but I am afraid they will recommend the surgery for it but the results don’t seem to be great, he is still recovering and I’m not sure that my wallet can handle anymore. It is eating me up inside. Everything else is going so well but there is a distinct lack of good information out there.

I was so sad to read about Lisa’s dog – but it gives me hope that yours is doing ok after 3 years, Carol. Lindsay, is your dog doing ok?

Right now he is on the Royal Canin Low-fat gastro wet diet. However this alone is going to bankrupt me at $50/6 days from my vet. I have to find a good, low-fat dry kibble to mix with it at the very least or figure out a healthy low-fat recipe that I can cook. My real problem with this is that he is also allergic to chicken which is a fundamental ingredient in most foods. Prior to this he was on the Holistic Select Salmon, Anchovy and Sardine diet. Very healthy but higher in fat.

My vet said if it says “hydrollised” chicken protein that it is digestible even with an allergy but at this point I don’t want to take the risk. The other brand she suggested is vegetarian with soy as the main protein – I have a lot of misgivings about that due to the protein loss that can accompany chylothorax. He is a very skinny Royal Standard Poodle – 31″ at the shoulder and honestly can’t afford much weight loss. If anyone has any healthy non-chicken low-fat diet recipes they would like to share, I would certainly appreciate it.

I will take the advice on here to heart when I go see the vet tomorrow – as well as any other suggestions, feedback, etc., that you all have. My heart is breaking for my big guy.

[Christopher E]

What most are failing to realize is that what your dogs ancestors ate is completely irrelevant.

Unless you are feeding your dogs raw food scraps, you have already altered their diet from what you are arguing is “natural,” i.e. What it was between 15k years and maybe a century ago.

But, again, that is irrelevant, the point is that numerous studies have shown that high levels of proteins grow cancer cells… and every dog in America is subject to higher and higher levels of carcinogens than the previous generation. Carcinogens are everywhere in the modern world.

That dogs have always had meat as the main component of their diet in not a valid argument. As myself and others have pointed out, it is entirely possible to provide a complete and balanced diet without animal products.

For anyone who has said that animal product free, vegan diets have not been proven to be healthy in humans or dogs in the long term… you clearly have not done your research because the studies are out there.

I am no longer a vegan. I tried to do it for a while for health reasons, not out of feeling sad for animals (though it does make me sad to think about how they are treated and slaughtered just for our enjoyment). Unfortunately, I love meat too much though. Sorry.

But when it comes to my dog, she is still a vegan. I don’t feed her animal products (except for the ocassional filet mignon scrapes I give her) because I believe that she is healthier and will live longer on a nearly entirely vegan diet. My opinions have been extrapolated from decades of research findings.

There is not any SCIENTIFICALLY EMPIRICAL study that has shown that humans or dogs need meat as part of their diet to be healthy and whole.

Look back over my numerous post on this thread, going back to the first post, if you doubt me.

There is nothing cruel or innately wrong about not feeding your dog meat if you are providing a complete and balanced diet (all the necessary vitamins, minerals, and nutrients). Arguing that’s it’s cruel because it is not in their nature is ridiculous. They are dogs for Christ sake. Non of this was “in their nature” when we first began domesticating them (wolves) 15k years ago. Just like our children, we have to do for them what we believe is best for them based on the information we have available… not whatever is in their nature… which, honestly is a completely arbitrary statement.

[Bag of Opals]

I know there’s something with raw chicken and salmonella, but I don’t recall anything about pork. Is there a reason you stay away from it? Don’t like the stuff myself, unless it’s bacon, but the dogs go bonkers for pork sausage.

Anyway, my first reaction to your post was to be grossed out and wonder what on earth you’re thinking, but really, this is quite fascinating. I fully agree that handling matters. Like anon101 said, more time and more things done means more chance of something going wrong. What’s your opinion on ready-ground meat? It would be easier for me to work with, but I don’t want it if it’s going to harm my furbaby. I’m not sure I’d trust a grocery store, but what if I was able to get a butcher to do it?

I cant remember which state MA is (Maryland?), but I hope that law gets passed! Cage free is so much better for both human and animal. I don’t need a study to tell me that. Good luck!

[Susan]

Hi Nancy, your better off using Malaseb Medicated Shampoo for Lucys paws skin, it keeps the skin moist & soft & kills any bacteria on her paws, probably after the diet change you will see an improvement, Don’t use the Iodine daily as it can dry out the skin & paws, I was putting Patch in a shallow bath with a few caps of Betadine about 3 times a week, it helped his paws at first BUT then the Betadine started to dry out his big pads, toe pads & dried out in between his paw toes, he ended up with red wrinkled dry paws, so now I just use the Malaseb medicated shampoo & soap up his paws & leave as long as he’ll let me & of a night apply either the Hydrocortisone 1% cream with a cotton tip so I get the cream in between his toes, you can buy Hydrocortisone 1% cream at chemist or I use the Sudocrem Healing cream, I rotate between the 2 creams, on the Sudocrem container it says it’s for Nappy Rash, Dermatitis, Abrasions, Pressure Sores & Eczema, the Sudocrem acts as a barrier & seems to really work.. In time you will work out what is working but it’s best to use 1 thing for 1 week & don’t use too many things cause you won’t know what is working & what isn’t helping.. The best kibble I have found that firmed up Patches poos was the “Taste Of The Wild” Sierra Mountain Roasted Lamb & the TOTW Pacific Stream Smoked Salmon there’s no chicken in both formulas I read on a few IBD & EPI Face Book groups that Taste Of The Wild kibble was helping their dogs poos & they were finally doing firm poos, I couldn’t believe it, I only took 3-4 days too introduce the new TOTW Roasted Lamb & his poos were firm the firmest that they have ever been… In a few months Lucy will feel like a young pup & start looking better.

[Bob D]

I have 5.5 month Standard Schnauzer. I feed her Taste of the High Prairie Puppy® Formula with Roasted Bison & Roasted Venison.
We did blood test and her has elivated calcium and phosphorus. Vet is not concerned and think its becuased she is still growing but I read about diatery changes that necessasy to address possible issue.
Is there any dog food recomendation that can help to regulate calcium and phosphorus.
Thanks, Bob

[crazy4cats]

It sounds like the same Mary Straus to me. She is not a vet, but I do think she does share some valuable information on the dogaware site. She does not necessarily recommend digestive enzymes unless the dog has a digestive disorder of some kind. She states they generally can produce enough on their own.

This is taken from http://www.dogaware.com:

Digestive Enzymes

Digestive enzyme supplements provide a variety of benefits

Article by Mary Straus, published in the Whole Dog Journal, May 2012

All dogs need digestive enzymes in order to break down their food, making the nutrients available for absorption. In most cases, the pancreas produces ample enzymes and no supplementation is required. Older dogs and dogs with digestive disorders may benefit from enzyme supplementation. Dogs with exocrine pancreatic insufficiency (EPI), where the pancreas is no longer able to produce enzymes, require prescription-strength enzymes in order to survive. Digestive enzymes might also help dogs with food allergies and intolerances.

She continues with more information about her opinion of digestive enzymes if anyone is interested in reading more.

I don’t think she has any formal training, but a lot of experience. Here is more about her:

http://dogaware.com/about.html

[Saint G]

Just because you see hoof print, don’t go looking for Zebras……They’re probably horses.

You do not have to go crazy here….Few simple things…First and foremost Great danes are skinny. It does not need to get barrel shaped like a lab.
You have a few very simple problems.
1) stop feeding him pasta…Fattens humans not dogs. Dogs can’t process the semolina flour.
2)chicken is great, use it as an additive to fatten him up.
3) Don’t buy into the “you need expensive food” Crap. Try beniful first ingredient is Chicken and its about $20 per 50lb bag. Feed him 80 oz per day.
4) How to fatten him up- add quaker oats to hi food. Feed him cheap penut butter (if you can-my dane does not like peanut butter) Throw him bread with real butter as snacks…Train him with American cheese slices. All this is great to add pounds.
5) chewing himself- dry skin, probably an issue with the pasta. Put a table spoon of Sa- Flower (not sun flower) oil or coconut oil (more expensive than sa- flower.) Too much will loosen his stool. NB-getting off the pasta and adding the oats and beniful will solid up his loose stool. Also, til the dry skin and loose stool go away, wipe his anus with baby wipes to keep him from getting soar and chewing that.
6) once he is up to weight, you can go off beniful and go to pedigree (I use it its $20 for 55 lbs at tractor supply. if he thins out, switch back. its nice to switch around anyway. OHH and if any idiot tells you to feed him cream, milk or such….do not! will lead to gas you can not stand!!! OMG

[T]

Hi Alissa,

Have you considered using a canned dog food? I’ve found it is better in many situations for dogs with sensitivities to food. It is less processed, has more natural moisture, and usually has a lower carb content.

One I looked at recently with a client was Merrick Limited Ingredient Turkey (although it does contain peas). Nature’s Variety Instinct canned food line has several choices for ingredients on your list (also contains some peas). Since you have a small breed dog, it might not be too much more hassle to feed canned food and could be very beneficial.

As always, I recommend a slow change over one or two weeks. Using a probiotic and digestive enzyme during the change and for several months after the change will help prevent digestive upset.

The bottom line on “food allergies” is that it’s not a normal state for dogs. It’s rarely just the food causing problems. Instead, there are deeper issues that should be treated. Many dogs in my practice have been able to eat foods they were formerly sensitive to after treatment of underlying disease. Chasing “the perfect food” is a dead end as most dogs become sensitive to more ingredients over time when the underlying disease is not addressed.

You can read more about dog nutrition and holistic health on my blog: http://naturalaternativesvet.com/blog

Tabitha (Dr. Thompson)

[Shannon W]

Hi Shawna,
First of all, I am so so so sorry to hear about your journey with Audrey’s health issues, my heart breaks for both of you 🙁
Secondly, this is a whole new experience for me but having just returned from the vet I am of course looking for related information. My 16.5 year old terrier Brownie (I know we are so lucky to have had her this long <3 ) stopped eating and was diagnosed with renal failure. She spent 4 days on fluids, antibiotics etc. and is home with aluminum hydroxide, antibiotics, an antacid (?) and phenobarb for seizures as well as subcutaneous fluids for the remainder of her time I suspect. That is ok, I would do anything for her…

I am just beginning the research on Kidney failure and have read many of your posts so far but not all of them. In one of them you recommend the SP Canine Renal Support. I have looked at that as well as the SP Renafood tabs which people also recommend. I was wondering why you chose the Canine support as opposed to the Renafood if you don’t mind? The only other question I will bother you with now ( don’t want to wear out my welcome here 😉 is if you have had any experience using Rehmannia 8 which many holistic vets recommend… Right now we are getting through one day at a time but I would like to start her on supplements asap while I figure out her diet and other vitamins/mineral needs etc. In the next few weeks (cross your fingers and toes please) I will get her to a holistic vet in an attempt to get her on “a plan” that will be more beneficial for her. Thank you SO much for your response and know that you came here through a nightmare but you are making such a difference for the rest of us and our beloved fur babies.

[Kristin S]

I’ve scrolled through a lot of the forum discussions looking for help picking out a new food but i didnt get far. Here is our situation –
7 year old, 125 lbs Germany Shepherd-mastiff mix. He has back and joint problems already. He needs to lose about 15lbs. He is very INACTIVE. He also has yeast problems so we can’t do potatoes.

Any suggestions?? Thanks a lot

[Jeannine M]

I am getting a new pup on Saturday and right now am having a hell of a time trying to figure out what to do puppy food wise. It is a 12 week old Mastweiler- otherwise known in the old days half mastiff half Rottweiler (mutt)!😄 I originally bought my first pup, same “breed” 22 years ago. She died 12 years later and I just had to have another of the same mix but in the meantime that mix became a designer “breed” called a Mastweiler. I can see why because you can not believe what amazing dogs they are! So in searching for the same mix I could only find a breeder which happened to be clear across the country from me and hella expensive for a “mutt”! He was the best purchase I EVER made. Honestly, truely, the love of our lives. Too late to make a long sad story short but we lost him August 31st just 8 short years later. January 2 he was diagnosed with osteosarcoma in his left rear leg and after an agonizing decision decided to amputate but 7 months later he was gone.😢 Said I would never get another animal again but two short weeks later the quiet in my house was deafening, we hated being home.
Fast forward and after contacting the same “breeder we got BOSCO from our new pup is coming Saturday!! NOW to my question😏- she has the pups on TLC all life stages dog food
but it doesn’t look to me like it has that much meat protein, and I also don’t see max calcium. I’ve read everything on here and am tired of going back and forth trying to figure this out. I was wondering if someone could recommend one that would be the best to start with or should I stick with the TLC? BOSCO was 140lbs and quiet tall but VERY athletic. Hoping this dog isn’t quiet so big for health purposes but you never know! Thanks in advance!

[Susan]

Hi Leslie, yes my rescue boy has IBD diagnosed thru Endoscope & Biopsies.. He has Food Sensitivities & cant have real high fat or high protein over 28% kibbles, like I wrote above it has taken me 3 yrs to work out what he can eat & can’t eat if your feeding turkey with the kibble have you thought of feeding him a raw diet or a cooked diet & stop feeding him kibble. There’s balanced premade raw diets….
You have to read the ingredients in the Science Diet formula & Fat, Protein & Fiber percent & look at all the kibbles you have tried & see where the difference lays, is the protein, fat or fiber too high, look at ingredients what’s the protein in Science Diet? Science Diet usually uses chicken, what ingredients are in the Science Diet usually corn gluten brewers rice, beet pulp etc then look at the ingredients in the other kibbles you have tried, see if there’s an ingredient in all the kibbles he had diarrhea….
also look at what oils & fat that are in the ingredients like fish oil, Salmon oil, my boy can not eat these oils, the American TOTW uses Salmon Oil but the Australian TOTW uses Canola Oil…. the best thing to do is start an elimination diet it takes a while but you will know what he cant eat, also maybe see a vet that specializes in IBS & IBD..
Have you looked at Science Diet Ideal balance?? it has better ingredients the their Science Diet range…

[Susan]

Hi, please get your Science Diet puppy food that your pup does good on, now read the Fat % the Protein % the Fiber % try & find a kibble with grains not grain free, cause the Science Diet uses crappy grains & there’s good premium kibbles with good grains & sweet potatoes that will be better then the Science Diet your feeding…
With the TOTW did the try “Sierra Mountain Roasted Lamb”?? it’s an all life stages kibble & has the least ingredients & the protein is only 25%, fat is 15%, I have a IBD boy & he does really well on the TOTW Sierra Mountain Roasted Lamb, it doesn’t have Garbanzo beans or lentils, Legumes, stay away from kibbles with Chickpeas, Lentils, Legumes…. have a look at “Holistic Select” Puppy/Adult its a grain free or the Holistic Select Anchovy, Sardines & Salmon & Rice or look at “Wellness Simple” range… Look for kibbles with limited ingredients that have brown rice there’s even “California Natural” it has limited ingredients only 3-4 ingredients & no peas, when my boy first stared eating kibbles with peas he got real bad wind…. Cause your pup is use to eating the Science Diet kibble you have to slowly introduce new foods in his diet once he’s doing well on a premium kibble, its taken me 3 yrs for Patch, & now he can eat apple, lean pork, lean beef, broccoli, carrot, egg, tuna. salmon, sweet potatoes, pumkin, raw almonds… I slowly started introducing all these foods once he was doing well on a kibble, TOTW Sierra Mountain, then I would give a couple pieces of peeled apple as a treat for 2 weeks, then 1 spoon pumkin with his kibble, then sweet potato etc… You will get there…
The other day I tried Artemis Turkey & Garbanzo beans, I had originally ordered Artemis Duck & Sweet Potato kibble but Pet place had sold out & gave me Artemis new formula & poor Patch was sick with diarrhea for 2-3 days until he was put on Metronidazole… 🙁 I’ll have to return & say he wont eat it, always check if the kibble is money back guaranteed.

[Richard K]

I have a shi-tzh and a pomeranian and about 2 months ago my shi-tzh got really sick throwing up and severe diarrhea. I took him to the vet and they did blood work and really didn’t find anything so they said it must just be a virus well 2 days later my other dog started the same thing. Well I thought It must be a virus. I took him to the vet and got him medication and they both seemed to be doing fine so I stopped giving them the medication. Well about 3 or 4 days later my shi-tzh started it again. I still had some medication left so I started him on it again and called the vet and he said to keep giving him the medication. So I did and after about 5 days he was doing fine again and I ran out of the medicine anyway but about 4 days go by and he starts it again! I called the vet and he sent home more medicine so I kept giving it to him and he again got better but again about 4 days later he starts again! I took him back to the vet and they did a test on his pancreas and gave me more medicine and said they would have results the next day. We’ll the test they did came back fine! I asked the vet what is going on I mean I’m up to 600 bucks in vet bills and still no answer! He said maybe it’s his diet! Well I used to feed them the blue buffalo until the lawsuit came out about their food having by products in it so I then changed to earthborn which they have been eating around 1 and a half years now with no problems. I always mix their dry food with wet food and they love it so now I am looking for a 5 star wet and dry food I can try them on that i can purchase somewhere near me. I see merrick is rated 5 star but I also read they were bought out by purina/nestle. I’m not sure I trust it being made by Purina? Can someone suggest a good dog food wet and dry i can try on them? Oh both my dogs are old. One is 9 years old and one is 10. The shi-tzh seems to have a more delicate stomach. Thanks

[Susan]

Hi Nancy, you don’t mention what kibble Daisy is eating?? please change her kibble & stop soaking in water, I use too soak Patches kibble in water but I would drain all the water out as much as I could once the kibble was soft but Patches acid reflux seem to get worse with water & draining the water, then I read that kibble soaked in water can bring on acid reflux cause they are licking up the water & eating, I did so much research with my boy, he finally had an Endoscope done & 2 biopsies… Endoscope & biopsies is the best thing you can do to see what is happening in Daisy stomach, is it the Helicobacter Pylori? is it an ulcer? is it GERDS does she have IBD probably sounds like IBD…
I finally found a kibble that agrees with Patch it digest easy, “Taste Of The Wild” Sierra Mountain, Roasted Lamb, at first I started Patch on TOTW Pacific Stream, Smoked Salmon & Patch acid reflux all disappeared probably cause the fiber in The TOTW Pacific Stream is only 3%-fiber, they need a lower fiber % when they have acid reflux also lower fat diets & low carbs diets….I also do a kibble test, get a cup or glass & put very warm water in & add 2-3 of the small kibbles that she’s eating or your have just bought or a sample, a good kibble will float to top of water & it should soften within 40mins….just squeeze kibble with fingers at 20mins if kibble is not soft all the way thru, then with the 2nd kibble squeeze at 40mins & see is it soft yet….. You don’t need to soak kibble in water when it its easy to digest, as soon as she eats the kibble it will digest easily & pass out of the stomach & not sit in her stomach causing acid reflux…
If you haven’t tried TOTW Pacific Stream Smoked Salmon get a small 2kg bag & give it a go also Patch is doing the firmest poos he has ever done since eating TOTW kibbles…or try the TOTW Sierra Mountain Roasted Lamb it has no Garbanzo beans if you live America the Pacific Stream Smoked Salmon has Garbanzo beans, it only took me 3 days to introduce the TOTW kibbles to Patch but take the usual & 7 days & introduce properly.. here’s their site to look at the ingredients. http://www.tasteofthewildpetfood.com/#home
I don’t know if its the Purified Water but something in the TOTW seems to work for Patches stomach, maybe cause it’s grain free (sweet Potatoes) & the added probiotics??…. Be careful with some grain free kibbles, do not get any kibbles with Chick peas, Garbanzo beans, Lentils, these all will cause acid reflux….
If Daisy doesn’t get better then give her an ant acid medication, I ended up putting Patch on Losec 10mg every morning now I give 10mg Losec morning & 10mg afternoon before dinner but I’m seeing my Gastro Dr in 1 month & I will ask him am I better off giving Patch 20mg Losec of a morning only 1 tablet a day instead of 1/2 the Losec, I take 1 morning & 1 before dinner a different brand, Patch has a good vet but I have found when it comes to drugs, human Drs seem to know more then vets do, probably cause we can tell the Drs what makes us feel better or worse… I suffer with Acid Reflux GERDS & its awful & its what you eat that can causes you to have a bad day….
Also walks, make sure she doesn’t get over weight & I walk Patch after he eats breakfast & dinner it moves things along & helps them digest their food & I hear him doing farts sometimes lol. Patch eats 4 small meals thru the day 7am a cooked meal, 12pm-Kibble-1/3 cup, 5pm-under 1 cup Kibble & 8pm-1/3 cup kibble-TOTW Sierra Mountain Roasted Lamb..
I hope Daisy is feeling heaps better very soon…if the probiotic was controlling Daisy acid reflux & making her better then I’d say she has the Helicobacter-Pylori & cause you stopped the probiotic the Helicobacter has taken over it happens with me & I drink those Yakult probiotics for 1 week then I’m fine again, I also give Patch some of my Yakult as well, Daisy she needs to take the triple therapy antibiotics change her diet & then when triple therapy meds are finished they take 3 weeks put her back on the probiotic.. Metronidazole (Flagyl) kills the Helicobacter & feed a grain free low carb diet, not tooo high in protein around 25%..that’s why its best to have the Endoscope & Biopsies done & you’ll know what’s happen but if you do the Endoscope stop the Probiotics 3-4 days before Endoscope/Biopsies is taken, so they will see the Helicobacter starting up..

[texasniteowl]

As mentioned in the Acana thread, I am currently looking into trying a different food. And while I knew that all the companies were adding more and more legumes…I didn’t really *know* it until I started comparing ingredients.

What is the real story on the use of all the legumes? Here is an example ingredient list:

deboned lamb, lamb meal, whole GREEN PEAS, RED LENTILS, lamb liver, lamb fat, PINTO BEANS, CHICKPEAS, herring oil, GREEN LENTILS, whole YELLOW PEAS, sun-cured alfalfa, …

So, is this considered ingredient splitting or not? Green peas & yellow peas listed separately. Red lentils and green lentils.

I’m honestly thinking about giving up grain free and going back to trying a good quality food even if it does have potatoes or oatmeal!

[HoundMusic]

@ Susan W

Thanks so much for the Verus recommendation – it looks to be exactly along the lines of what I have been trying to find, at least ingredients wise! Will definitely have to look further into that one.

@ Pitluv

I always thought large breed foods might be the way to go for this problem, but I’m seeing evidence that what these dogs do best on is low to moderate phosphorous levels with higher amounts of calcium – the LB foods I’m seeing have decreased calcium to slow down growth, so IDK anymore if that would help 🙁 That’s why I’ve been so frustrated, here.

@ Inked Marie

You must be tempted to strangle me about now for always taking my sweet time about checking the forums *grin*

The pup in question is the blueticked hellion (a.k.a. Brady) in my avatar, with his breeder @ about 10-11 weeks 🙂 He’s 4 months now, and already making a fine start harassing the rabbits. If you can believe it, I only have one other pic of him giving me a dirty look after being taken home from the airport. Probably need some incentive to take more 😉

[Jennifer C]

I dont know what to do.. I am new here and hoping to find some help. I have a 10 year old pug that underwent stone removal surgery some months ago. Well it wasnt a solid stone exactly but more like a huge pile of sand type of crystals. (Sorry if i dont remember the terms) the vet had never seen anything like it. Anyhow it tested to be 45% struvite and 55% urate crystals. The vet recommended either pedigree pro plan hydrolized or royal canine UC. I am not a fan of the brands and have always fed high quality foods before this but i do trust my vet and dont want to risk my baby’s health. So i switched him from the fromm grain free that he was eating to the royal canine UC. I had him in for dental work a couple months later and his liver level is high. Dr gave him a liver cleanse to take and the level went up slightly after 3 weeks. Not sure if the cleanse did nothing or if it would have been much higher had he not been on it. Xrays and ultrasound were done along with an acid bile test which came back high. Dr has him on ursodiol and metronidazole right now. Only thing that has changed since his first surgery is the food so i am nervous somehow the royal canine is causing the liver problems? I am just starting a switch to the peigree he had recommended to see if there is any change also. Sorry to write a whole essay here… My question.. is there a higher value food aside from this 2 options that i could maybe try? I keep reading that canned food is a help but what canned food can he have? The pedigree and royal canine foods dont come in canned. I had always given warm water in his kibble but i have upped that as much as he will tolerate. I also add a splash of chicken broth to it so he wants to drink it all. Any thoughts on any of is? I have never had serious health issues like this with any of my pups so am really at a loss.

[elaine c]

yes, they do studies but they don’t use them. If you would read a book like Unlocking the Canine Ancestral Diet and there are others.. this book written by a pro who formulated kibble for big companies. You would never feed that stuff. Dog’s lives are so short really.. if you would read it and see how this kibble could not be really good, that your dog could not really do really well.. The problem is that the AAFCO are not that great in terms of meaning the full, thriving kind of needs. They are a base line.. with too much carbs or not enough of the right fats, that the fats in there when cooked lose their potency etc. and are not high enough in protein that is actually good… No I don’t really trust purina.. Many people do studies, it doesn’t mean they make better dog food. Lots of studies have been done on people too to see what they can tolerate.. no. Don’t trust them.

[HoundMusic]

Can anyone point me in the direction of a good puppy food (or all life stages formula) for a four month old Beagle pup? Looking specifically for something that has moderate levels of calcium and lower levels of phosphorous.

Currently feeding one that is 1.58% calcium & 1.2% phos, and that is TOO HIGH for this pup. Intervertebral disc disease runs RAMPANT in this bloodline, and high phos/protein foods during growth, and afterwards, can be disastrous for this condition. I started him on this current brand a little over a week ago, and immediately noticed a very slight bunny hopping and rear leg “hitching” many of these hounds will develop with high protein feeds that cause super rapid growth spurts (which he just had).

I’ve had good luck growing such pups with raw when doing a higher meat:bone ratio – however, while two days of it did stop the hitching, I was noticing bouts of shivering that only stopped when switched back to dry food. I have absolutely no idea what was going on there – been feeding raw going on 15 yrs (on & off), and never saw anything like it, but I think raw is out of the question, at least for the time being.

Any suggestions welcome. I’ve had him on four different foods in 5-6 weeks and am ready to pull out my hair :/

[Acroyali]

Just a few of my own thoughts:

When I was in the transitional stages, one of my cats choked…on kibble. He was excessively hungry, and I was removing the 24 hour a day buffet in order to get them acclimated to meal times. He was OK, but any living thing can choke on anything. Bones can be scary, and if someone isn’t comfortable feeding bones I never would suggest it dissuades them from feeding a healthier diet than they’re already feeding. Hare Today offers boneless grinds (meat only) as well as boneless chunks of meat. I believe chicken and turkey both come this way, check the product description to be sure.

I’ve used boneless chunks as “reminders” to chew. I never give an excessively hungry dog anything bone-in; bones come after the main meal, which is mostly muscle meats and organs. It works for us, hopefully it can and will work for others.

I have and do brush teeth on a few of my dogs as a precaution. The issue I have is getting more brushed than the stuff we see at first glance. Getting the gumline on the inside part of the back molars with a toothbrush is next to impossible. Your dogs’ teeth may look wonderful when you lift their lip up. But if they yawn or pant and you get a glimpse of gross stuff on the INSIDE of the teeth, chewing is their best bet to get their teeth cleaned up.

I used to be a huge fan of recreational bones until a recent tooth fracture on one of my larger dogs. Now I know why some owners call them “wreck” bones 😉

I have never had the unfortunate experiences described here by some from puncturing or choking to death, and hope I never do. I know of one person who had a boxer choke on an ox tail and the dog died on the way to the vet. I’m SUPER weird about choosing large things for my dogs to chew on for this reason; even if they don’t totally consume the whole thing at once. There’s no doubt in my mind that dogs have suffered and even died from consuming raw bones, but there’s also no doubt in my mind that dogs have suffered and even died from consuming tainted, moldy, spoiled “safe” dry food (covered in salmonella, BTW), or have suffered greatly from eating a poor choice of food *for them* and have had the symptoms suppressed with drugs.

JMO.

[anonymous]

Regarding Hemopet and Nutriscan, mentioned frequently here in threads
/forums/search/hemopet/

Update- “Hemopet Sues Pet Food Companies to Claim Ownership of the Idea of Nutrigenomics”
Posted on September 23, 2016 by skeptvet http://skeptvet.com/Blog/

[aimee]

Hi Cannoli,

I read a post from a vet who wrote that chicken and turkey neck bones are the most frequent foreign body he has had to remove via scope from the esophagus …no doubt due the irregular shape.. all those protuberances.

Sadly those protuberances also puncture right through the esophagus and make removal challenging. He wrote that in the last month he had euthanized several young dogs due to perforation from bone. So sad and so avoidable.

I know of 3 bone cases from my own vet. One had already passed before arriving to the hospital ( choked on a chicken thigh bone cartilage “end cap”), in another the bone was successfully removed via scope ( the dog had pet insurance but claim was denied since the bone was intentionally given to the dog) the third was referred to a specialty hospital because the esophagus was perforated… the dog didn’t survive.

Here is a paper on removal of esophageal foreign bodies citing bone as the most frequent problem and reported a mortality of 11% http://www.irishvetjournal.org/content/63/3/163

I’m with you… it isn’t worth the risk.

[Jenn H]

Is there a worse feeling than seeing your pet struggling and not being able to help???

Hydrotherapy is really amazing. But don’t do it if it will add to the anxiety your dog is already feeling. Also Old English Sheepdogs (which I absolutely love and never see) have a lot of fur. Soaking that coat will add a lot of extra weight that the dog probably isn’t strong enough to carry.

One of my girls has Lyme induced arthritis. When she has discomfort I give her Neurontin (Gabapentin). It’s good for nerve pain and not expensive. I’m always weary of Rimadyl and other drugs like that as they can effect the liver. What your dog already has elevated bilirubin you don’t want to do that.

While we’re on the liver…your dog may have a nausea if it isn’t functioning properly. That could be the reason for the anorexia and foaming mouth.
It also works with the kidneys. I had a dog that drank ever few minutes like he hadn’t drank all day. The output didn’t come close to his intake. He was in kidney failure. (He was having mini-strokes.)
If the liver isn’t doing its job ammonia doesn’t get expelled from the body and that causes hepatic encephalitis (HE). This presents as dimentia and can also increase anxiety.
The liver is the 2nd largest organ. It’s very important and can cause a lot of trouble if it’s out of whack.

As for reversing or stopping nerve damage that’s a tough one. There aren’t many things that can get through the blood brain barrier. If it can’t reach the central nervous system then it’s not worth the risk.

Some dogs do still have the instinct to kill the sick & weak. They can’t waste valuable nutrients on a pack member that isn’t well.
Keep an eye on the healthy dog. Don’t leave them unattended together. If the other dog is strong or big I would just keep them separated at all times. Easier than getting him/her away when they are determined. The sheepdog doesn’t need that stress.

My plan would probably be:
*Get something for pain. To at least take the edge off. But also has the least side effects.
*Keep an eye on the liver levels. Especially ammonia. If you notice yellow tint in whites of eyes that’s jaundice. It’s the result of too much bilirubin.
*Get an anti nausea med. That may help with the appetite.
This is all really palliative care stuff. You can continue to seek a more permanent solution as you do this, but keeping the animal comfortable is priority.

My heart breaks for you. I hope you find a way to turn things around. 14 years is a very respectable age. Good on you for getting this far. I know it’s never long enough.

So get the baby comfortable, then find a way to improve health.

Best of luck to you.

[joet]

WholeHearted Adult Dog Food – Grain Free Turkey & Sweet Potato Canned Cuts in Gravy, 13.2 oz——-
has anyone seen this or tried it–
ingredients are top shelf—made by petco–
ny TeddyBear is pure bread yellow lab–he just turned 10-
he has been fed blue all his life———he is on 2 cans per day and a cup of dry—
as you know–blue is expensive and price is climbing—-$2.50 and up—-
whole hearted –has top ingred—and cost is aprox–$1.79 a can–
teddy eats 14 cans a week x’s 4 weeks—thats a minimum of $152.07–including tax—
whole heart would be a total of$108.88
the can i bought tedddy to try out–teddy loved it—-gave him half a can—then i ate the rest to see just how good it tasted–
it tasted just like turkey pot pie—
heres my question——
at his age–do you guys think i should switch—
joan–wife–says no—-
me==joe t—its not rated here yet-but it should get 4 to 5 stars—-the price will save me money–etc—–
i just cant see spending a dollar more + per can– -on food that is no better than petcos own brand—its illogical to me——thats it guys—what do you think–signed joe t & teddy.

• This reply was modified 9 years, 6 months ago by joet. Reason: had to add a word

[Ryan K]

My 14 year old Old English Sheepdog is pretty much at the end phase of her life and we are all heartbroken over it. She has been fairly sick over the last few weeks with a lack of appetite and her hind legs giving out. Our vet has said that she has nerve degeneration in her spine that is causing her back legs to gradually slide out from under her. With a small dog this is a bit easier to handle with carrying them and getting them around but with a 65 pound dog it’s not that easy. I wondered if there was any supplement that people have given their dogs for aiding the nerves in regenerating or getting better? I read that the mushroom Lion’s Mane is great for humans but haven’t heard how much a dog could tolerate. I would love to keep my dog going cause she’s so vibrant despite her age and these new hindrances. We love her so much and this has been a rough couple weeks with thinking the end is near. Is it a waste or stupid to try new supplements at this point? I brought her in to the vet today thinking it was the end for her after a long night of heavy panting and only eating canned food that she KNOWS has no pills in. She has suddenly become a detective with finding her meds hidden in wrapped treats and spits them out and it’s just crazy! But, he said that although she is old and not feeling well he thinks she looks good and can go a bit longer and he didn’t recommend euthanasia which was a relief. I don’t want to prolong her pain or make her stick around just to avoid that decision.

Any recommendations for senior dog supplements for the nervous system would be great. Also, she is allergic to brewers yeast so I have to avoid that ingredient. Thanks!

[Michael F]

Hi Everyone, Thanks so much for replying to my original post, it helps my boy and I not feel so alone out here. I’m happy to say that for now he is doing much better, knock on wood!!! I’m currently feeding three times a day, some lamb and rice kibble, mixed with cooked chicken and rice and Honest Kitchen Brave, I’m slowly weaning him off the cooked chicken and rice and increasing the Honest Kitchen, and trying to get him down to one protein as I was told that dogs with I.B.D. do best on a single protein. His vitamin B-12 level was low normal and I asked the vet if that could have come from eating only cooked chicken and rice but he didn’t think so, I also asked if there was a Vitamin B-12 Supplement that I could give him that would help build that up but he said no, only Vitamin B shots would work. I evaluated the cooked chicken and rice I had been feeding him and found it obviously to be very low on all vitamins he would need and also found that Boiled Chicken is a very low source of Vitamin B-12, in addition the amount of that I was feeding was way too low on Calories, before having to go on the bland diet he had been eating Tuscan Natural Lamb and Rice which he did well on for 60 pounds worth, and then starting having strange clay like poops, I realized that it was very low in fiber, so now I’m mixing it with the Honest Kitchen Brave, seems to be giving him the fiber he needs. I also did some research with some Holistic Vets and put him on Mercola Pet Probiotics and in addition I found a Vitamin B-12 Supplement for pets from Wonder Laboratories called Pet Factor B-12 with Folic Acid Intrinsic Factor, they both seem to have really helped and his B-12 level has come back up. I didn’t want to overdue the B-12 and I didn’t want to mix it in on his other medicine day so I only give him a single capsule every other day. I read about the Wonder Lab B-12 product on a website for dogs with SIBO which apparently can also be coupled with IBD in some dogs. I will say that the internist wasn’t overly helpful in what to do except to keep trying to find a food he could eat. I really believe that the Mercola Probiotics have been the most beneficial thing in settling down his digestive system and I think having him on a very small amount of kibble and mainly the soft dehydrated food have also helped calm things down, and for him the B-12 capsules have also helped to increase the B-12 level, I know the vets say the shots are the only way, but these tablets seem to work. Please let me know what things you guys are having luck with, Thanks! I forgot to mention, my Internist said that most of dogs he was seeing with IBD were eating dog foods that had a lot of fruit in them and he felt blue berries and other fruits just were not appropriate for dogs, he did think some apple’s would be OK but that was about it as far as fruit went. (Note my dog was never on a food with a bunch of fruit in it, so who knows)

[Tim D]

Sorry to resurrect an old thread – however, my bag of the fresh fish also has this yellow-ish oil in it as well. I didn’t notice it right away, it’s in a sealed dog food container – though, I can see at the bottom of the container it’s there.

Has anyone heard what this is? Needless to say I will not feed my guy the remainder of this food. I only wish I caught it sooner, we went through about a quarter of the bag before noticing.

[Dena B]

Suzanne, I’m heart broken for you and what seems like the many others that are finding this information out too late. I wonder has anyone thought of contacting a TV News Crew in their local area? I know like Channel 3 here in Phoenix has 3 on your side and so does ABC. I just wonder if we could get some more light spread on this? I’d love some feedback. Please feel free to contact me on my personal email. I’m going to be brave. azbusboom@me.com

There is an update. Since my husband and I switched to Nutro Lite Healthy Dog food for Nash our Ridgeback Hound he is doing amazing! The cost of the food is not much more expensive than the Kirkland brand we were buying and it ships to your door. We get ours through a subscription on Amazon. Def worth looking into. He has lost weight, no longer bloated or vomiting and having regular stools. Big improvement. We are expecting a new little Scoodle next week as my new emotional service dog (Scottish terrier/poodle mix) She will be 10 weeks and I can’t wait to get her. You all can follow me on FB/Twitter/Snapchat too. She will be on Nutro Small breed Puppy for the first year. Make no mistake no cheap food here anymore. Price has been paid.

Well, I’m glad to stay informed and I hate to read these said stories. Prays and support for all who’ve lost or are dealing with sick Fur Babies. It’s just the worst.

Smiles
Dena B.

[Spy Car]

Courtney, I’d advocate you really consider PMR.

Feeding soft edible bone (like chicken bones) really isn’t scary. An 80/10/10 model of diverse sources will keep the nutrition on track.

One place where I’d diverge from the advice of some raw feeding websites is on the issue of delaying organs. I think this is a very bad idea on two fronts. One, the nutrients from organs are vital (especially in growing puppies). Two, delay increases the odds of a dog developing an aversion to organs. I’ve read of people delaying organs (and advocating the practice) and then saying they need to virtually force-feed them later (as organs are not optional).

My advice if you choose PMR is to introduce organs as soon as you have stable stools. Organs can lossen stools, so it is a good idea to start adding them in in wee amounts and build up to PMR percentages over time.

Relax about chicken bones. Do monitor the dogs as they start to make sure they are not gulpers (bigger pieces help ensure chewing). There are hard bones that are best avoided to prevent tooth damage, but chicken is easy.

There is no value in adding carbohydrates to the meals. Dogs process fat much more efficiently as their primary energy source, with sustained energy and peak aerobic capacity vs the quick peaks and valleys of carbohydrates that cut stamina and aerobic capacity.

Bill

[Susan]

Hi Laura, if after you try another kibble & your dog poos haven’t firmed up please see a vet, don’t let his sloppy poo/diarrhea keep going, it ends up causing thickening of the bowel as they get older….
I have a rescue dog that I rescued at the age of 4yrs old his old owners never bothered changing whatever he was eating & probably never seen a vet, he was in very poor condition when I rescued him, after seeing a vet & having test, he was diagnosed he has IBD & food sensitivities, your boy may be sensitive to an certain ingredient or he may have parasites… have a fecal smear, he may have Giardia & need medication…

Give “Taste Of The Wild” Sierra Mountain Roasted Lamb a try, it’s an all life stages kibble so your pup can eat it.. it only has Lamb as the protein. its grain free & doesn’t have many ingredients…Just put him straight on the new kibble, there’s no point adding a kibble he’s reacting too that’s if he’s reacting to his kibble…. When I saw vets about Patch vet would say just start the new vet diet & you would see an improvement within 2-3 days if he didn’t react to the new kibble…..My boy finally got better when he was put on Taste Of The Wild, I tried vet diets, premium kibbles, then I read on a few Face Book EPI & IBD groups, the dogs were doing really well when eating TOTW Pacific Stream Smoked Salmon & Sierra Mountain Roasted Lamb but if after eating the TOTW Lamb & your boy isn’t doing firm poos within the 1-2 weeks, then see a vet with a sample of his morning poo in a container or jar..
http://www.petmd.com/dog/conditions/infectious-parasitic/c_multi_giardiasis

[anonymously]

Where are you getting your information? From well meaning folks on the internet and Doctor Google?
Consult a professional, some of your comments don’t make any sense. Only a veterinarian that has examined your dog and reviewed it’s history can make specific recommendations regarding diet. Just my opinion. It appears that you have already decided what you want to do and are just looking for posters to support your opinions.
Best of luck.

[Caryn B]

Thank you for your responses. I decided on the Acana product after reading here and in the pet supply store, I felt I could trust the person helping me. He really seemed to know his stuff and confirmed what I have read here. Dimples seems to LOVE it. So happy. Thank you so much!

[Courtney R]

To whomever the anonymous person is: I see these Skeptvet articles linked in a lot of the raw threads. I’m not in the least opposed to home cooking for my dogs. In fact that was the first thing I looked into after deciding to get them off kibble. I imagine a lot of people do the same. Feeding raweat to my pets is, quite frankly, a little scary.

However, I can’t find much useful information on formulating a home cooked diet. Recipes, sure, but I want something that gives me numbers/formulas/percentages. Maybe I’m weird but I want to just Google recipes and start trying random things. I like that prey model operates on an 80/10/10 and I can sit down and calcute how much meat, bone and organs to feed them. I also like that there’s no starches (potatoes, rice, etc) involved as I am trying to avoid those in their diet.

What I’m getting at is if you know any good sites, books, articles etc that will teach me how to formulate a diet that meets all their nutritional requirements I would love to read it. Im just not finding either of the links you posted particularly informative.

To inkedmarie: So glad I’m not the only one who feels overwhelmed! 😊

[Susan]

Hi Caryn, you have to realise vets aren’t nutritionist & some vets know stuff all about nutrition for dogs & cats….. a good vet would be telling you to feed a balanced raw or cooked diet to your dog & cat, not a kibble….
You should always rotate between a few different brand kibbles & different proteins when feeding a kibble, never just feed the one brand & same protein their whole lives like some people do….also add fresh whole foods to the kibble…. They have found by adding 1 tablespoon of cooked veggies/fruit or a protein to the dogs kibble just 3 times a week can reduce the chances of them getting cancer.. …follow “Rodney Habib” the Pet nutrition blogger on Face Book he’s excellent & it’s so easy to make your dog healthier, happier & live longer…since dogs have been eating just kibble they aren’t living as long as when they were fed table scraps & cooked meals..

When picking a good kibble, look at the ingredients, a good kibble should have at least 3-5 proteins as the 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th & 5th ingredient, then should have a carb like sweet potatoes as the next ingredient….. also when the ingredients are written, the ingredients are raw, not cooked yet except if it says meal eg, chicken meal, lamb meal, duck meal etc also the ingredient list is written on weight, so when ingredients are cooked the ingredients shrink, especially proteins/meats, a good kibble should read Lamb, then Lamb Meal, chicken meal, or turkey, turkey meal, chicken meal etc when it says meal there’s more meat cause the meal is cooked meats dried & made into powder form (meal) but when it just say chicken or lamb or duck, it’s raw & hasn’t been cooked yet it needs the meal to follow, duck then duck meal or chicken then chicken meal etc… also if it say’s fish or ocean fish you want to know what type of fish it is?? it should say salmon, salmon meal or Whitefish, Sardines or Anchovy …..
Have a look at “Canidae” Pure formulas grain free & their Life Stages formulas, their Life Stages, All Life Stages formula is a good kibble, it has 4 high quality meat meals, chicken, turkey, lamb & fish & is a pretty good price when you buy a 20kg bag, then look for another premium kibble & I rotate in the same day some times, I give Patch his “Taste Of The Wild” Sierra Mountain for breakfast then he has Canidae Life Stages formula for dinner when I forget to take out his cooked meal out of freezer…. Some people rotate when the bag of kibble is down too 1/4 of the bag left then start adding & mixing in the next new kibble your going to feed, after you have rotated a few different kibbles you don’t really need to slowly introduce anymore……You will see a difference when your dog is feed a better quality kibble that agrees with him, they have more energy, their coat shines, their poos are firm & smaller…. then pick about 3 different kibbles with different proteins & fed them but still keep your eye out for another kibble to try that’s on special or new..
Go onto the “Review” section & start looking at 3-5 star kibbles, I prefer a kibble with less ingredients, limited ingredient kibbles & I add fresh cooked food to the kibble, tin sardines in oil/spring water are excellent, I add tin Salmon in spring water, you ban add the salmon bones, you give about 3 small sardines or 1/4 of the small tin, also veggies broccoli, berries, apple, I fed pieces of peeled seeded apple, watermelon, rock melon as treats also yogurt Patch gets 1 heap spoon yogurt at 11 am every day now….3-4 years ago if I gave Patch anything different in his diet he’d have diarrhea, gas/farts, bad wind pain, rumbling, grumbling bowel noises, he’s a rescue that was feed a very poor diet & now has IBD & Skin & Food sensitivities…. Good Luck
*Canidae- http://www.canidae.com/dog-food/products
*Sport Dog Elite Series- http://www.sportdogfood.com/dog-food/active-sporting/performance/
*Taste Of The Wild- http://www.tasteofthewild.com.au
*California Natural- http://www.californianaturalpet.com/products

[Courtney R]

So, I’m considering switching my dogs to a raw diet and I’m inwhat I’d call a “researching” phase. Did anyone else feel totally overwhelmed when starting this process or is that just me? Lol

Short background: I have a 60 lb ACD mix that is roughly 7 (Burke) and a 12 lb Pomchi that is 5 (Miles). They’ve been on Orijen for the past couple of years and so far as stools go it seems to agree with them. However, Burke has started getting lick granulomas roughly 2x per year, Miles chronically seems “yeasty”, they’ve both had UTIs this year and we got fleas for the first time ever this summer which has been an utter nightmare. My vet of course gave antibiotics for the UTIs but seems to not be concerned about the other stuff. But to me it seems their immune systems aren’t up to snuff and diets the easiest way at it.

Currently I have 3 questions which might seem totally unrelated:
#1. Should I have a blood panel done prior to starting raw just to be certain there isn’t any reason why it’d be unhealthy to switch them to raw? Seeing as they’re both having issues I’m doubting that would be the case, but I’m a worrier 😉

#2 Admittedly the bone business freaks me out. I’m sure I’ll get over it as I get more comfortable but I’ve been looking at the (chicken) grinds from Hare Today to start with. However, I wasn’t sure about the organ. From what I’ve read you should stick to muscle and bone in the beginning and work in organs preferably after you’ve transitioned through meat sources. Should I order the ground chicken feet and just supplement with some breast or thigh meat? Or maybe someone has another simple suggestion to avoid actual bones for a bit?

#3. They already get coconut oil, yogurt or kefir, salmon oil and digestive enzymes. Could I continue these through the transition or should I hold off and give their stomachs time to adjust to raw food? Also, any supplements that they absolutely NEED to have or is this kind of just up to me?

Sorry this wasn’t as short as I’d hoped but thanks so much for any help. This forum has already been a big assistance and I can’t wait to learn more from you guys!

[Ritchy]

Thank you both for the input!

Just thought I’d respond with the path we have decided on for now.

We are going with a mix using nature’s variety. We are doing 25% raw/75% kibble currently and eventually moving to a 50/50 mix. (I am so new to this, I’m not ready to jump into managing nutrient content on my own…probably too lazy/busy to ever get there 🙂 )

This will give us some raw in the diet from what seems to be a really good company.

I REALLY like their feeding guidelines calculator on their website. I was able to enter the weight of each of our dogs and if they needed to maintain or lose a few pounds, the mix and food selections and get an exact feeding guideline.

We are almost a week in now and I can already report a couple of good indicators:
– The dogs love it; they eat way too fast now.
– Their hair is already noticeably softer!

[aimee]

Hi Joseph,

I’m glad to hear that you are willing to continue to learn. When you posted that you thought the authors of the link I referred you to were spewing garbage it didn’t seem to me that you were willing to consider what they had said could be true.

I don’t disagree that by researching a focused topic you can become well educated on that subject. The key is to make sure that the sources you are using are credible. It is easy to get lead astray. I use Pub med and google scholar when I first start researching a new topic.

I’d encourage you to spend some of your hours researching Malassezia reading clinical microbiology journals. Through reading those I learned that this isn’t a sugar loving yeast, as is say Candida, it is a fat loving yeast (lipophilic). For the most part it is a fat dependent yeast, meaning that it requires fat to grow. Most strains of Malassezia pachydermatis, the yeast type most often found on dogs, are not lipid dependent but some are and other lipid dependent Malassezia species have been found on dogs. The organism thrives on fats not carbs.

Houndmusic: Besides the fact that Malassezia is a fat loving yeast. The other big hole in the “carbohydrates feed yeast” mantra is that the skin is a long way away from the gut. A high carb diet will directly provide substrate for intestinal yeast to munch on if one suffers from intestinal yeast overgrowth, but on the skin???… I don’t think so.

To get carb from the gut to the skin it has to travel and the means of transport is blood. Glucose levels in the blood are tightly regulated, unless you are a diabetic. Remove all carbs from the diet and your blood glucose isn’t going to be that different from that found when eating a carb inclusive diet. In other words, a similar amount of glucose is transported to the skin on a daily basis regardless of diet.

The final problem for me is how would glucose even get to the outermost surface of the skin on a dog which is where the yeast resides? N/P in people as glucose is a component of sweat… but dogs don’t sweat, except for paw pads and nose and sebum doesn’t have any appreciable glucose in it. Hmmm Housten we have a problem…

See how this whole idea that dietary carbs feed yeast falls apart? The organism prefers and thrives with fats not carbs and I can’t come up with a mechanism that puts carbs on the outermost surface of the skin of a dog much less one in which a high carb diet would deposit higher levels of carb on the skin than a low carb diet.

But I’m open to hearing the other side. Explain to me how eating a high carb diet results in a high level of carbs on the surface of the skin leading to an overgrowth of yeast. I don’t see it. What I do see is a lipid loving organism feeding on the sebum of skin altered from a primary cause.

[HoundMusic]

I’m a newbie to these forums, but am no novice to raw feeding – been doing raw in some form, either 100% or as a supplement for about 15yrs now. Since 2014, its been an all raw, prey model type diet consisting mostly of chicken quarters pork meat and neck bones, a variety of organ meats (but mostly beef liver), ground beef, egg yolks, turkey necks and occasional meats like lamb ribs, fish or ground turkey. They also get “extras” and leftovers that amount to a small portion of the diet.

That aside, I’ve been noticing all summer that Toby, an intact male Beagle who will be 11yrs in October, hasn’t seemed in the greatest health, but there was nothing specific I could point my finger at, so I chalked it up to age. Fleas have been plaguing him, which made me further suspect something was wrong, especially after treatment did very little to help.

Over the past few days, the fleas have been back with a vengeance untold, and this morning, out of the blue, Toby came back in from the yard, lay down in a corner, and wouldn’t get up. There were no other symptoms, just a sudden lameness that seemed to pass in a few minutes. But it was very worrying, and he seems to have lost some weight in the past few days, so I decided it was Vet time. That, and in May, he had a partial obstruction from a pork neck bone, and the Vet told me then the only abnormality of the blood test results was “elevated liver enzymes”. So of course, my first thought is possible liver failure going on here :/

It was no fun finding a Vet on Labor Day, let me tell you, but we seemed to get a competent one, for once. I did NOT mention Toby is raw fed, btw. Another CBC was done, and like before, everything came back smack in the middle of normal – except, his ALP levels (alkaline phosphatase) were once again high (@ 228). But with no other signs of liver abnormalities in the blood results, this Vet was as stumped as the first one was as to why it should be elevated, unless it was osteomalacia, which he said was odd in a dog Toby’s age.

When I asked what precisely that was, the Vet told me I already knew it by a more common name. Rickets. Or rather, it’s technically called rickets before the growth plates close, and osteomalacia is the adult version.

I may have emitted an expletive, because how else can a dog get rickets, save for a home made diet that has been lacking in Vitamin D? I haven’t had the greatest luck with Vets in my life, but I was grateful that when I did mention raw feeding, all I got was the Knowing Look, an admonition that Toby would not be the first raw fed dog he’d seen with rickets (!!!), and a prescription for Vitamin D tablets for dogs. He did not try to push kibble on me or say another word about raw… he didn’t need to 🙁

Don’t have the faintest idea where we’re going from here, but Toby is on his Vit D and does not seem to be holding the incident against me. I’ve had my stumbling blocks with raw in the past, which is why I usually limited it to supplementation, but this has to be the worst problem I’ve ever had diagnosed. And honestly, if not for the strain put on his health with the fleas, I would never have noticed anything out of the ordinary with this dog. He seemed perfectly healthy otherwise.

So. Just blowing off some steam at the day’s events, my own stupidity, and thought this might be interesting fodder for other raw feeders. And btw, I am told that bad teeth can be a dead giveaway symptom of rickets, as well, and yet, Toby has the best teeth out of everybody…

• This topic was modified 9 years, 7 months ago by HoundMusic.

[Joseph w]

Let me give u a couple examples why an article from a board certified veterinary dermatologists means absolutely nothing g to me when Uve talks to let owners who have been dealing with their dig for years and found these cures to work. Recently I went to a urologist, I got a referal from my primary because I needed a specialist. I had done probably my 3 days of research on the matter and when I was examined it was obvious I knew much much .it’s about my disease than this so called specialist who had gone to med school for 8 years. Not because he wasn’t smart but because it was my body, and I had Adamantly pursued what was wrong, what medicine I needed and what should be done from all types of sources. I then found the best specialist in the state and after speaking g with him I got another referal. Example 2- I am a computer networker I recently ran into a complex problem with my personal computer that I dint know how to fix right away. Someone who had researched this exact problem from multiple sources for 2 days could have figured out the problem- does this mean they know more than me after years of school? Example 3- The last couple months we’ve been thinking bodger had a thyroid issue and took him in to get a blood test. It turned out negative and the vet thought it was cushings disease which I’d never heard of. Before his LDDS test iiterally research for prob 6 a day for a week- forums, fb groups, Yahoo groups- (the majority of these people are pet owners who are extremely knowledgeable on the subject and have been dealing with this stuff for over a decade and probably more knowledgeable than most vets.) I read articles of all shapes and sizes, punished reports and journals, called the o my place in the country that does a pituitary tumor operation and talked to one of the best IMS on my side of the state. Anyway needless to say after a week I knew much .ore on the subject than my vet when we had his test and it came back negative she just said “ohp he’s all better nothing wrong with him” I believe it was a unique type of Cushing’s and have an appt with a ISP. Point is because your knowlegable In A subject and do it for a living In No way means your right or even have the faintest I would in a heartbeat give pet owners who have lived this day In and day out for years with their loved one just like I did when I spoke with people whos own body it was. But like I said I whole heardjust disagree but will continue ue to research what you said. I’m going g to call my IMS and the u iveristy who does the operation and a very good dermatoligist in a nearby city who I’ve already spoken with on Monday and I will post here what they say. We are also doing a skin allergy test next month and I have no knowledge of those but I was told by one person a forum they can be unreliable and when I was checking out different pet foods around town today I went to local co-op and talked to a lady who worked there who has had terrible yeast problems with her dog for years. She told me she’s spent thousands and different vets and IMS and nothing worked and she has tried dozens of foods doing tests trying g to find out what he was allergic to and the test they did to find out what he was allergic to turned out to be garbage. I kinda had 2 points there- I talked to 2 people who said the allergy tests didn’t work and 1 person who said the test of Ingredients trial and error didn’t work-study this by no means means anything though- just one person’s experience. Anyway after everything she tried she stu k with avaderm for the last couple years, a. Couple months ago she bought pre/pro biotics supplement to add to the food and within 2weeks there was a noticeable difference and within 6weeks he was perfect. Nothing changed except the addition of the final enzymes. In Case ur wondering she wasn’t trying to sell me anything – they didn’t sell the supplement there she was just telling g me her story. Anyway Im done rangting, I. Exhausted and I hope u can read this as my auto correct is going nuts. Have a good evening and I will report back.

[aimee]

Hi Joseph,

I have no doubt that you could post link after link claiming that the carbohydrate level in the diet influences yeast growth on the skin, but none of your links would be to articles authored by board certified veterinary dermatologists, human dermatologists or be from published peer reviewed journals. The reason for that is because there is no link between dietary carbohydrate levels and yeast infection on the skin in people or dogs. There is a lot of misinformation on the web and unfortunately some of it is spread by people who should know better.

I understand that testimonials are compelling, bloodletting used to be the cutting edge of medicine based on the observation that “it worked”. But things that appear to work, when tested can be found not only not “to work” but to cause harm.

You came here asking for help because what you have been doing isn’t working. Be open to new information that takes you in a different direction. Malassezia is secondary to things like environmental allergies, adverse food reactions (allergy), hormonal disorders, immune suppression, parasites… focus on finding and treating the primary cause. In the mean time bathing with an effective shampoo can help your pet immensely.

Best Wishes

[Bag of Opals]

US Susan: I appreciate the suggestion on what looks like a nice product range, but it’s a bit difficult to obtain something only sold on the opposite side of the world to which one lives.

AU Susan: Stay Loyal looks like an excellent food, but as a single, unemployed, mentally ill and neurologically disabled person, it costs more than I really want to pay. Meals for Mutts looks like it could work, though. I’d passed up that brand earlier, I think because I’d misread the protein amount. Their other products are certainly worth considering.

Ziwipeak definitely isn’t something I can afford to buy regularly, so it doesn’t really feel right to ask for samples. I’m glad your pack is doing well, though! I love cats, but decided a dog better suited what I’m looking for-a companion to share company and love with.

EDIT: How do I post pictures here? It’s been a long time since I’ve fiddled directly with html.

• This reply was modified 9 years, 7 months ago by Bag of Opals.
• This reply was modified 9 years, 7 months ago by Bag of Opals.

[Theodore L]

I wrote to ZiwiPeaks about their food since we have a dog with IBD. The following is their email to me: Hi Theodore:
Thank you for your inquiry. We are thrilled that you are looking into feeding ZiwiPeak. We are passionate about pets, and strive to produce the best foods available for our furry friends! Many pet parents with dogs (and cats) suffering from IBS / IBD have found ZiwiPeak to be the perfect diet for their fur babies, due to the lack of fillers, preservatives, grains and other ingredients completely unsuitable to a carnivore’s digestive system. One of the ingredients that is included in ALL ZiwiPeak recipes is cold-washed green tripe. Green tripe is a powerhouse of nutrients, is extremely digestible and palatable and contains probiotics/prebiotics and digestive enzymes which help establish a healthy gut. I will be asking our Office Assistant to mail you a sample packet, and I’ve attached a guide for transitioning your dog. Please refer to the feeding calculator on our website’s homepage for the recommended daily serving. http://www.ziwipeak.com

Here’s some basic information about ZiwiPeak:

All ZiwiPeak recipes and formulas are complete and balanced as a daily diet for ALL breeds, and for ALL life stages. To determine your pet’s recommended feeding amount, please use the feeding calculator on our website’s homepage: http://www.ziwipeak.com

ZiwiPeak gives your pet the equivalent of a raw, wild prey diet and is made from over 95% raw meat and organs, including natural fat and bone. Our food contains no rendered meats or meat by-products. We add no artificial colors or flavors, no carrageenan, no chemical preservatives, no grains or potatoes, and no added salts, sugars, gelatin or glycerines or cheap filler ingredients. These ingredients cannot be efficiently utilized by a carnivore’s digestive system and can contribute to various health issues, including skin & coat problems, itchy skin and ears, yeast infections, allergies, obesity, kidney disease, IBD/IBS and diabetes. ZiwiPeak cuisine is over 95% digestible and extremely palatable to even the most finicky dogs and cats.

ZiwiPeak uses free-range, grass-fed meat raised on traceable, approved New Zealand farms, and seafood caught using ecologically-sustainable practices under New Zealand’s stringent, government-controlled, fish-management system. All meat and seafood we use must be free from added hormones, antibiotics, growth promotants and GMOs. Our added vitamins and minerals are sourced from reputable, traceable suppliers in the USA, Europe and New Zealand and Japan. We do not source any ingredients from China.

We add New Zealand Green-Lipped Mussel to all ZiwiPeak formulas to provide high levels of natural glucosamine, chondroitin, and omega 3 and 6 essential fatty acids, and cold-washed green tripe, which provides important vitamins & minerals, digestive enzymes and probiotics needed for healthy digestion. We are relentless in our commitment to quality and care, operating under the most stringent health and safety standards. Every batch of ZiwiPeak must meet both our own in-house specifications and the highest international benchmarks. All ZiwiPeak products meet or exceed industry standards.

Please let me know if I can be of additional assistance,
Regards,
I did not write her name since I don’t have her permission. I have been transitioning one healthy guy to this food. I am not ready to do the IBD guy yet since he just had a setback and the Vet (Internist does not want any changes). I received a very fast response – I liked it!

[Mandee Y]

Susan Ihave been reading up on how many eggs and if to give or not give to our dogs.. Very interesting to read up on so much information can’t wait to go in and start my Max on some eggs he sure will love.. Susan, I was reading on how you not only feed your dog, dog food but other things like banana bread, potatoes.. My question is do you cook like you are cooking for yourself or is there a different way to cook it? Also is there a site that you would know of with recipes for dogs food?

[HoundMusic]

I’ve been breeding Beagles for about eleven years now, and never had good results with “holistic” food. Sometimes, there can be simply too many ingredients that have no use for the dog, but are on the label more to make the owner feel like Brand A is so superior to brand B. A great deal of the ingredient bashing came from rival dog food companies, and spread across the internet like wildfire.

Personally, I don’t feel comfortable giving my dogs a food that has zero research & development behind it, with nothing more to recommend it than a fancy ingredient label. Merrick, Wellness, Canidae, Timberwolf Organics (etc. ad infinitum) were disasters on steroids. I caused a plethora of problems with these top dollar, supposedly high end diets, that it’s just unimaginable.

JMHO, but forget grain free altogether. It’s a marketing gimmick if I ever saw one. Some grains, like brown rice and oats, are extremely well tolerated by dogs and have the added benefits of high nutritional value and blood sugar regulation. The potatoes or other starchy foods used in grain free often *increase* the carbohydrate level in a dog food, and many spike the blood sugar, which will inevitably lead to a crash. Enough of that can cause real health problems. I have seen this. Firsthand.

I might also humbly suggest finding a “mid-grade” feed with a more limited ingredient list. You can always supplement a small portion of the diet with fresh meats if you want variety, but a dog food shouldn’t have the kitchen sink thrown in. Those types are VERY rough on the digestive system. And after feeding holistic foods to probably somewhere around 30 adult dogs in just under two decades, I can’t say I was impressed with how any of those dogs did on designer brands.

BTW; you mentioned your pup was doing well on SD. While far from my favorite brand, if he was doing better on that then Acana, then which one, for that dog, was the garbage food?

• This reply was modified 9 years, 7 months ago by HoundMusic.

[Peter V]

Hi Everyone,

I apologize if this has already been posted.

I have a 10-month old, 15lb Shih Poo (Half Shitzu/Half Poodle) named Paco. He’s a ton of fun, an has a lot of energy.

It was time for me to switch him from his puppy food to an adult food. The vet perscribed Hills T/D Care, which after doing some research, I found was absolute garbage.

I then discovered this site, and switched him to Acana Small Breed Formula. He loved the food, but the amount of poop that came with it was pretty insane… 4 – 5 poops/day.

I went to the pet store where they convinced my that I should go with CaniSource, Grand Cru Red Meat Formula… it is not grain-free. His poops were dramatically reduced with this food to the point where he was at 2-poops/day, but I got the feeling that he didn’t really like what I was giving him. It would take him almost the entire day to eat 3/4 cup – 1 cup of the food, and often he wouldn’t finish it.

I then switched him to Acana Heritage Grasslands, and again… the multiple poops/day have come back. He’s been on this food for approximately 3-weeks now, and he’s pooping 3-4 times/day.

I’m not trying to transition him onto Fromm 4-Stars Grain-Free Game Bird…

Do you have any suggestions for me as to what I should be giving him? I’m starting to go nuts reading all of the reviews on this site in regards to different foods…

Thanks for all of your help in advance.

[Anna O]

Hi everyone!
I confess: I have not read every post here, but I wanted to chime in on 2 things.
1) Verus has a great food for coat and skin conditions. It’s called Advanced Opticoat. I have Verus foods for years and would recommend it to anyone. The Opticoat helped a rescue who had a pitiful coat.
2) On the skin rash thing: You can mix equal parts of food grade DE powder, Neem powder, and powdered yarrow, put the mixture in a sock, and pat it onto your dog’s coat (EVERYWHERE!) to help with the skin rashes. It will literally work within an hour if the issue is caused by little bugs (like mites).

[crazy4cats]

Hi Diana-

Yes, it I think it would be fine to make your dog a simple bland homemade diet for now to help heal his tummy. Such as boiled chicken or Turkey and sweet potato or pumpkin. However, I would not start adding a bunch of supplements to it all at once. You will not know what is helping or hindering your dog’s condition.

How I understand it is, the Giardia is causing the yucky stools. And trust me, I know exactly how yucky they can be. I have two big dogs and they both have had it at the same time on a couple of occasions. You need to concentrate on getting rid of the parasite at this time. Both Panacur and Drontal Plus are dewormers that have been fairly successful at ridding it. Also a probiotic with large amounts of enterococcus faecium have proved to be helpful also. I also am a believer in high fiber and garlic as a dewormer as well. But, you can clear that with your vet.

I’ve also read not to give them any diarrhea remedies per say as their bodies need to get rid of the parasites, not keep them trapped in their tummies.

And definitely follow the advice above on keeping everything clean. Pour very hot water and bleach on the spots where he goes potty. Giardia thrives in colder temps, not hot.

I hope skept vet answers your questions. I’ll be curious as to what he has to say.

Good luck!

Edit: BTW, have you had him re-tested yet?

• This reply was modified 9 years, 7 months ago by crazy4cats.

[anonymously]

Giardia is a protozoan parasite that can infect the gastrointestinal tract of dogs and is capable of causing diarrhea, vomiting, weight loss and lethargy — although many infected animals show no signs at all. It is common throughout the United States and can cause infections at almost any time of year. Unlike many other infectious organisms, giardia persists longer in the environment when conditions are cool and moist.

Most dogs become infected by drinking water contaminated with feces. Giardia then infects the small intestine, and infected dogs pass microscopic cysts in their stool. These cysts can then infect another animal or person if ingested. Giardia cysts are very resistant in the environment, and can live for many months under the correct circumstances. These cysts are a threat to pet health, and giardia is a very common cause of pet diarrhea in the United States.

• All dogs — even those on year-round parasite preventives and those without diarrhea — should have at least one to two fecal samples performed annually as part of their wellness exam to screen for gastrointestinal parasites, including giardia.
• All dogs with symptoms of vomiting or diarrhea should be tested for giardia and other gastrointestinal parasites.
• All newly adopted dogs should be tested for these parasites before they are introduced to a new home, and all dogs returning from high-risk environments (e.g., kennels, dog shows, boarding facilities, etc.) should be tested.

Testing for Giardia

There is no perfect test for giardia. Giardia is an elusive parasite, and cysts are shed only intermittently from the gastrointestinal tract of an infected dog. A single fecal sample has only a 70 percent chance of detecting an infection. Performing three fecal samples within five consecutive days increases the chance of detection to greater than 90 percent. There are other tests such as the giardia ELISA that can be used with a routine fecal sample to increase the likelihood of a diagnosis to about 95 percent.

Treating Giardia

If your dog is diagnosed with giardia, he will likely be prescribed medication, and your veterinarian will recommend a follow-up fecal sample two weeks after treatment.

A dog should be bathed on his last day of treatment to eliminate all giardia cysts from his hair coat. Wearing gloves, you should bathe and rinse his whole body as normal and then focus last on his hind end. Do not touch the rest of his body after you have bathed and rinsed around the anus. This will eliminate spreading any remaining giardia cysts around his hair coat. Pet bowls, toys, etc., should be disinfected in either boiling water or in a high-temperature dishwasher. Upholstery and carpeting should be steam-cleaned and allowed to dry. Hard surfaces can be disinfected with a dilute bleach solution (3/4 cup of bleach mixed with 1 gallon of water) or a disinfecting household cleaning product.
http://www.vetstreet.com/our-pet-experts/be-on-guard-against-giardia