[J K]

Hello! I just wanted to pop in and thank everyone who contributed to this thread! I have a 5 year old Border Collie who I adopted two years ago. She has had skin infection/allergies/yeast problems since before I got her. I adopted her without knowledge of the issue, and once I found out, the foster told me it was just hot spots from skin rubbing against itself. Being a first time dog owner, I just believed her.

Anyway, problem got worse and here I am 2 years later, after spending about ~$7,000 on different medications from different vets. She did an allergy test with a dermatologist and is now on allergy vaccines, but I have a feeling that it isn’t tackling the correct problem. I think it might be yeast? She frequently tries to lick or chew her feet, gets red sores on her underside, and it often starts around her nose/lips/chin area. She has black skin on her underside as well.

This thread has given me hope after being hopeless! I just ordered NutriSource Seafood Select and am considering adding Dinovites at a later point. I started feeding her Greek yogurt a few days ago. Hopefully I can update you with good news in the future!

Taek K, if you’re still here, can I ask how you prepare the food for your dog? I’m not sure what the best way would be for the salmon or the veggies. Cooked/uncooked? Canned? Fresh?

[Nadine H]

Very true pitlove, hadn’t thought of that. Trying to research has created more confusion . My vet knows how obsessive I’ve been about finding the perfect kibble. He told me to go with a company that does the research etc. So many small companies are popping up and they usually don’t have the funds to do feeding trials etc. Then you look at the big companies and some regard them as totally evil and feeding the food they produce is the worst possible thing you can do. Then the no grain got popular and I really feel there is a lot of hype regarding grain free, They have to include starch to form the kibble and many include pea fiber. Then look at the raw feeders, how many know exactly what nutrients are needed and are they feeding a balanced diet? Used to be so easy and then I started reading, 🙂

[Nadine H]

If you get a chance would you give me your opinion on Farmina? I’ve been feeding the chicken and pomegranate low grain for adult dogs. I’ve asked a ton of questions and always get a reply. I plan on emailing again to ask what the max is for the cal/’phos. They have the min listed at 1.20/.095. We’re on the third bag and I have to say this is the first time that my 13 month dane has had firm stools and they are going a max of twice a day. I had decided to try to get them on canidae thinking the lower protein,fat and calories would be better but after just adding a little to the Farmina Logan had runny poop so the canidae is going back.You may be wondering why I decided to keep looking, first of all I’m really confused on how much of this food to feed. The email from the co told me to feed Logan at 140 only three cups a day, that just seemed like so little food.I’ve been feeding 5 cups a day devided into three meals. One bag of food lasts around 12 days so we’re going through alot of food in a month. If this is the best food for them I’ll pay it but we’re talking over 200.00 a month to feed two danes. My vet had recommended purina pro plan but every time I read the ingredients I think no cant go there. I had emailed purina and they told me Logan .should get nine or ten cups a day. That sounded really excessive. Appreciate your help with this.

[anonymous]

“I’m not doing research on anything. We have a great vet and do what she says. She said no heartworm treatment until the giardia is gone. It’s a little complicated in that the heartworm treatments are coming from the vet at the rescue (we dont pay so we’re going back there), but they can talk as needed. She’s a Texas A&M vet which is the only school I’d take my pets to. A&M is the best for veterinary schools, at least in this area”

“She said Synacore was the best bc it has more than just probiotics in it. Potatoes were not given as an option for her diet right now, only chicken, white rice, pumpkin, goats milk until Monday. We’re closely following her guidelines, so while I appreciate other advice, we won’t be following it if it contradicts what the vet says.”

“The vet didnt seem to think it was hard to treat at all- she said normally the dewormer alone works but we dont want to wait any longer and have her lose more weight so she added the antibiotic today anyway. She does do 5 days of dewormer instead of the recommended 3 so maybe that’s the difference?”

@ Therese M

YAY! EXACTLY! Go by what the vet advises, no one else! Myself included, lol
Sometimes I have to stop reading these type of forums for a while because I cringe at some of the advice being doled out. My vet rolled his eyes when I mentioned online pet forums.
PS: I have heard of the wormer being given 5 days vs 3, vet wants to be sure it works.
Lucy is on the road to recovery! I detect a positive vibe. And don’t think she isn’t aware of all the care you are giving her, it will aid in her overcoming her ailments 🙂

[Susan]

Hi Sue,
gee your doing a really good job rescuing & helping all these sick dogs, I just have 1 sick boy & some days he does my head in when he has his pain & I can’t help him & relieve his IBD pain….
alot of people just dump their sick dying cats & dogs at pounds when they’re really sick & owner doesnt want to deal with it or owner doesn’t have the money, in Australia we have “Golden Oldies rescue”, go onto F/B & up top in the search bar put “Golden Oldies Animal Rescue” Gina saves all the old sick dogs in pounds all over Australia, they’re mainly small dogs, the pounds ring up Gina when a dog comes in, in very bad condition, she takes them out under duty of care post a post on her F/b page asking for urgent foster carer if the pound is on the other side of Australia & raises money to pay the vet bills or air flight she gets the dogs & cats better some just needed meds, or teeth removed, the real sick dogs go into palliative foster care & she makes sure their last days, weeks, months comfortable & shows them love they have never had & holds them when they need to be put to sleep she calls them all her heart beats..

While reading your post it reminded me of Dr Judy Morgan in one of her videos she’s making different meals, then she has all their bowls on the kitchen bench top & adds all their different supplements & their medications to all the meals, she has about 8-9 Cavaliar dogs a few are rescues cause when she’s making the Pup loaf she has her dog Miss Madison with her…Judy uses the “Honest Kitchen” base mix Preference when making Miss Madisons meals for a month…. here’s the Pup Loaf video & Miss Madison

Here’s Monica Segals F/B group K-9 Kitchen
https://www.facebook.com/groups/K9kitchen/

[Sue W]

Hi Everyone and thank you so much for your help. I have 7 dogs (4 rescues) each need a different food – 1. Chico(Rescue) (kidney disease) 2.Riley(Rescue) (allergic to Rice, Oats, Yeast, Peas, Fish and all fish oils) 3 & 4 Moosha and Rumer (Prone to putting weight on and need low calorie but quality food) currently on Metabolic, ugh. 5. Murphy has a GI disorder can only high quality wet food – was on I/D but now on Natural Balance Chicken Formula. 6. Bugsy(Rescue) is a senior who after 1 dental and 10 teeth pulled will have another 18 pulled next month – so needless to say a soft diet is in order – he is currently eating Natural Balance Lamb Formula. 7. Little Bixbi (Rescue) newly adopted – this little dude is messed up – about 80% blind, has the ‘wobbles’ falls down a lot and has a few ruptured discs in his neck so he can’t move his head up and down – has(had) a UTI was on C/D. So there it is – I would LOVE to feed all my dogs 1 food – not sure raw is the way to go however I do like the ‘benefits’ of it and I do, when I have it, give them raw goats milk as well. I want to be able to feed my dogs a high quality organic non-gmo food – but with all the dogs having different needs I am spending – 100.00 a month on K/D roughly 33.70 for 12 cans 1 can daily. 44.00 a month on Chicken canned food and 40.00 a month on Lamb formula canned and of course 65.00 for a 17 1/2 pound bag for the 2 who need a low calorie food and 53.00 on Riley’s Nutro Essentials small Bites non gmo – has NO peas- most foods are being supplemented with peas/pea fiber Riley cant eat peas or the fish that’s also in almost all foods now and of course he can’t any brown rice, white rice oats or brewers yeast – thats basically everything good in dog foods, right? It’s a nightmare!!! All I want to do is feed my dogs an organic diet without spending more than I already am (or less would be ideal – with all the medical bills headed this way). The ‘just for dogs’ food is great – but a 72 oz bag is 33.00 and I would need at least 3 bags a month just for Chico. I am at a lost as to what is best for them( the priority of course) but what also doesn’t cost us 300.00 monthly just in dog food. I have found all the people ‘Susan’ suggested – Rodney and Dr. Judy, joined the canine kidney support group but couldn’t find the ‘K-9 Kitchen’ on facebook too many weird sites popped up and nobody named Monica. Thank you ALL for your help. And before the haters – start hating- I love my rescue dogs – and I am not crying about money and no I didn’t know how ill some of them were when I rescued/adopted them (except for Chico) so I am trying to help all them the healthiest way I can.

[Susan]

Hi Jeri,
out of all the grain free formula’s you have tried what are the common ingredients in all these brands you have been feeding when he has had diarrhea?? is there always tapioca, chicken, peas, beet pulp, potato, chickpeas, fish?? do you feed teh same protein source? go thru all the brands & formula’s you have feed & write down the first 12 ingredients…. do you give any treats, is he eating anything else outside, are you using a flea product, did you change anything the times he’s had diarrhea??
Start keeping a diary & write down every single thing that goes in his mouth & on his skin if the flea meds are spot on’s, when he has diarrhea or starts doing sloppy poo’s…..I have a diary & it sits on loungeroom table & I write down what Patch ate, times, what his pos were like on walks, firm, soft, sloppy, yellow, condom over poo etc when he eats any treats, he’s eating the Hills Vet Diet treats at the moment & doing really well, so if he does get diarrhea I can look back thru his diary & see what has happened or it might be his IBD & he needs his Metronidazole tablets for 14-21 days again….

When you buy a new bag of kibble always read the “Use By Date” & I try & keep getting the same Use By Date Batches, this is what I do when Patch is doing really well, stick with the same Use By Date bags of kibble they always have 12-18 months on the bags of kibbles…..When the diarrhea has happened did you start a new bag of kibble?
also do you store kibble in a cool place, in air tight container?

My boy has IBD & this happens with Patch I’ve given him a food or started introducing him to a new kibble when he gets the rumbles (diarrhea sloppy poos) & I’ve just found out this year he can’t have barley tapioca & chickpeas, or he’s having an IBD flare too much bad bacteria….
Patch does the best on “Taste Of The Wild” Sierra Mountain, Roasted Lamb grain free gluten free formula, it just has 1 meat protein Lamb meal, sweet potato, potato, peas, egg, blueberries, raspberries, Costco sells Kirkland Signature, Nature’s Domain, made by TOTW but cheaper….Kirkland Signature Salmon & Sweet Potato is the same as the TOTW Pacific Stream Smoked Salmon formula, or there’s the Turkey & Sweet Potatoes aswell, the Beef formula has garbanzo beans, you want a kibble with the least ingredients…
Have you tried “4Health” sold thru Tractor Supply, I’ve read alot of dogs with stomach sensitivities do really well on “4Health” grain free limited ingredient formula’s…look at “4Health, Duck & Potato”, it has the less ingredients, it has no beet pulp, no tapioca, no chicken, or there’s
4Health, Special care Sensitive Stomach or Special Care Sensitive Skin, sometimes in certain brands the Sensitive Skin is better then the Sensitive Stomach formula’s, read ingredient list to both formula’s, I think the 4health Sensitive skin is better it has Hydrolyzed Salmon, potato free (he might be sensitive to potato??) & it has less ingredients & it’s higher in Omega 3 what you want for his Skin, Joints, Stomach, Brain, Heart. you can always try both & see which one works best, rotate between the 2, they both might be good…Google “4Health” Tractor Supply also have the wet tin food $1.19c a 13 oz. can
When you rotate foods it helps with food sensitivites & strengthens their immune system..

If after trying either the Kirkland Signature, Natures Domain, Turkey or the Salmon + sweet potatoes formula’s or the 4Health Duck Meal & Potato or Sensitive Skin formula & the same thing happens you might have to ty a limited ingredient grain formula & see does it happen as well?? if it does happen then he might have small intestinal bowel overgrowth S.I.B.O, stop feeding kibbles with Beet Pulp, is poo yellow, is it just a one off diarrhea? or do you need Metronidazole (Flagyl) from the vet to stop the diarrhea & get rid of the bad bacteria in stomach & bowel ??
I had to use the Metronidazole (Antibiotic) maybe three times a year to fix Patches bacteria & kill the bad bacteria cause it takes over the stomach & small bowel when he was eating kibble with Beet Pulp… S.I.B.O…..
Pick a new kibble with different ingredients to what he’s eating at the moment..
Good Luck keep me posted..

[Susan]

Hi Heather,
Daisy needs a diet high in Omega 3, have you tried a salmon/fish diet yet? you write you give her Omega 3 but what brand are you using, is it a New Zealand brand? in America they tested a heap different brands of un opened fish oils supplements off the shop shelves & 70% of them were no good, a waste of money, then they tested the fish oil supplements from New Zealand & their fish oil capsule were of better quality, the whether is cooler in NZ, so there’s no damage while being made.. Oxidation occurs when unsaturated fats such as omega -3 fatty acids EPA & DHA are exposed to heat, light or oxygen…how you’ll know if capsules are rancid/oxidized the smell is awful, smells real fishy smell & the gel capsules may have discoloration… store any fish oil in fridge…
same as oils in a kibble as soon as you open bag of kibble & the oxygen hits the kibble the oils start to oxidize, they say you have 2 weeks life on a kibble, so make sure its put in an air tight container & stored in a very cool place in the house, alot of people put their dog food in the garage or hot shed…
Cause you don’t know if the fish oil capsules are good or bad, best to buy tin sardines in spring water or olive oil, take sardines out of the tin & put in a glass air tight small container, store in fridge & give Daisy 2-3 sardines a day either as a treat or as a topper on her dry food….
I would start looking for a Salmon dry formula but not Orijen or Acana, Orijen & Acana tested high for toxins & contaminates….
Have a look at “Canidae” Pure Sea formula, alot of dogs with skin problems do really well on the Canidae Pure Sea formula, ingredients are good, its high in omega 3, feed for 2-3 months then rotate & feed the Canidae Pure Sky it has turkey meal & duck meal, turkey & chicken are cleaner meats, or rotate with the Canidae Pure Elements also the wet tin foods are really good to use as a topper, read thru the ingredient list see which formula you prefer but make sure you rotate with the Pure Sea especially when Spring & Summer is coming start back on the Canidae Pure Sea, https://www.canidae.com/dog-food/products

or try a vet diet try Hills new “Derma Defense” wet & dry, it’s a vet diet for Environment allergies, skin problems, with high levels of Omega 3 & 6 fatty acid, the Omega 3 is high at 1.80% the Omega 6-3.96%, the Omega 3 should be around 1/2 of what the Omega 6% is, alot of pet foods aren’t balanced properly & are very low in Omega 3 & very high in Omega 6, they’re not balanced properly & cause skin problems….
Hills Derm Defense helps strengthen skin barrier, formulated to help soothe & nourish skin & coat, helps skin recover naturally, supporting a healthy immune system, works with proprietary complex of bioactives & phytonutrients, antioxidants, including vitamin E, high levels of Omega 3 & 6 fatty acids….
I know I lot of people don’t like the ingredients in vet diets, but they’re formulated for certain health problems, you could give the Derm Defense a try for just 3 months & see does her fur start to grow back, you’ve got nothing to lose also Hills is guaranteed to work or money back, contact Hills speak with one of their Vet Nutritionist & see what formula they recommend… I rotate & feed the Hills D/D Venison & Potato Skin health & Stomach, my boy has IBD & Skin Allergies or try the Canidae Pure Sea & Pure Sky formula’s first & see how Daisy goes…. Canidae will be cheaper then the vet diet… Canidae gets 5 stars on American consumer affairs site, Canidae grow all their own vegetables, Canidae is a family run business…. what your feeding at the moment isn’t helping, so you have nothing to lose..
also shampoo what are you bathing Daisy in to moisturize & nourish her skin?
Start bathing Daisy weekly with Malaseb medicated shampoo to wash off any allergens on her skin…

[Susan]

Hi Therese,
Glad you have finally found something Lucy likes, so she is a gravy lover like most dogs, this must be the type of food her original owner feed her gravy type stews, now when you give her her anitibiotics make sure she is taking them on a full stomach, this is why she’d be feeling nauseous, antibiotic’s must be taken with a meal & if she wasnt really eating much it would be hard to give her her meds…..

With Pancreatitis just make sure the fat in a wet tin food is 4% & below when feeding some wet tin foods, some are 5,6,7,8,9% min in fat, eating high fat foods 24/7 can cause Pancreatitis.. even with this Mighty Dog 1 food might be 3%min fat then another formula might be 6%min fat, just make sure you read the can first, if you see 5%min fat min when you convert 5%min fat it will be around 20-25% max fat, depending on the brand when it’s converted to dry matter, so it’s best to stay around the 2-4%fat in wet tin foods, for now just stick with the mighty dog wet tin food, then once she is off all her meds & she is feeling heaps better you can venture out & try better quality foods…

Hills Science Diet has their new Youthful Vitality 7+ Chicken & Vegetable Stew, the can is lime/green back round with a border collie dog running on the side, the Youthful Vitility food has everything a dog needs, even thought Lucy is only 3 she could be in poor condition on the inside, the Youthful Vitility Stew has antioxidants for brain support, L-carnitine helps with stomach & diarrhea, Vitamins C & E help bolster a strong immune system, Omega 3 & 6 for skin & coat & has high quality ingredients, the fat is 15%max, Hills converts all their wet tin foods fat, protein, fiber etc it’s on their Hills site, even if you just buy 3-4 tins a week & she gets 1 tin every second night for dinner or breakfast, if she does not eat this food then wash out the Hills tin & take it back to Pet Shop, Hills is guaranteed money back for palability….it’s a bit embarassing but the workers get to know you & your dog…
also instead of the boiled pumkin, try boiled sweet potato, the orange sweet potato, maybe its called Yams in America, it’s healthy like pumkin & taste like pumkin but it’s sweeter, just add 1spoon mixed thru wet tin food, I boil cut up squares about the size of 1 spoon & freeze then I take out when I need 1-2 spoons to add to a meal, it thaws very quickly & then heat in micro wave so its not cold, that’s another reason dogs & cats won’t eat their food if its cold from the fridge, I warm my cats wet & raw food for just 7-8 second to take off the chill..

[anonymous]

Communicate with your vet that the antibiotic is making her nauseous (from what you can tell).
On more than one occasion I have had the vet change the antibiotic to a different one, problem solved. There are other broad spectrum antibiotics that may be able to be used.
Something to keep in mind, have the vet note on her record that this antibiotic does not agree with her.

Stop worrying about the quality of ingredients in this food and that food, you can worry about that later, if and when she is stable.

I told you, dogs LOVE Mighty Dog and they have gravy formulas. I have owned dogs for over 30 years, I think I know a thing or two.

Another trick, supermarket rotisserie chicken meat (no bones, of course). I have NEVER seen a dog refuse it, mix it with the prescription food and a splash of water and watch her eat!
Try it and let us know.

Oh, and take everything you read on the internet with a grain of salt 🙂
For science based veterinary medicine go here http://skeptvet.com/Blog/

• This reply was modified 8 years, 4 months ago by anonymous.

[Therese M]

Thanks for all your replies. When we got her, they seemed to think she was perfectly healthy, which made us comfortable taking her. We all assume that her issues are antibiotic related. She’s been to 2 vets, both think the same. Other than the not eating, she’s overall healthy. We have insurance for her, so if we need additional testing it’s not a problem for us to cover it, but neither vet mentioned anything about it. We’re not giving her back- we’ll work out what we need to to get her better. We’ve had (sick) pets before just not a dog.

I tried Costco canned but I didn’t get the stew one and she hated it, although it looked pretty gross to me too. She really likes gravy- she’ll lick that out of the bowl first then eat the chunks with other brands. I can get the stew kind- I was looking at it last time I was there actually.

This is the info on Cesars: “The dashboard displays a dry matter protein reading of 44%, a fat level of 19% and estimated carbohydrates of about 28%.
As a group, the brand features an average protein content of 45% and a mean fat level of 21%. Together, these figures suggest a carbohydrate content of 26% for the overall product line.
And a fat-to-protein ratio of about 48%.
Above-average protein. Below-average fat. And below-average carbs as compared to a typical wet dog food.”

The paste looks like it would be very helpful- I’ll ask about that tomorrow. I’ll get the costco stew today, no more dry, low fat. Thank you all for your help- Lucy certainly appreciates it!

[Caroline L]

Hi there Therese M

I think you are right, her poor appetite is likely due to the antibiotic she is on and overall just not feeling well. Reach out to the vet and ask that he/she prescribe a calorie supplement. Its a dark brownish paste that can be prescribed to underweight dogs. Try mixing it with peanut butter, liver Kong treat paste or spreading it on some pepperoni, anything she might tolerate eating. The supplement will help with her calorie deficit while (hopefully) her appetite gradually improves.

As far as food, stick to what you know she will eat – Cesar trays, pepperoni and peanut butter. I know it isn’t ideal; do what you can. If her appetite does not increase within 2 days of completing the antibiotic round call the vet.

Its easier said than done, but be patient and don’t stress yourself out further trying to find different foods for her right now. When you do start your search for a dog food, buy the smallest bag possible and ask for any samples or trial sizes the store may have of other foods.

While Susan brings up a good point about potential stomach or pancreas issues, focus on resolving the most immediate issues you are aware of – finishing antibiotic routine, increasing appetite. If her issues eating persist after the antibiotic is done, then explore other more invasive options.

Best of luck!

[Susan]

Hi Therese,
sounds like she has stomach or panreatitis problems & the cesars food probably doesn’t upset her stomach any cause any pain or whatever she is having, I would NOT start any treatment for her heartworm yet, it will kill her, vet needs to work out what’s wrong with her stomach first & why she is hesitant to eat, something is wrong, Golden Labradors LOVE their food….
I got a rescue 5yrs ago & he was the same in very bad condition, but he was the opposite & ate everything in site, even cat poo, after vomiting weekly, doing bloody diarrhea, sloppy poo’s, acid reflux, up thru the night with rumbling, grumbling bowel noises, in the end I asked the vet can we do Endoscope + Biopsies, vet put camera down his throat into the stomach & did 2 Biopsies, you need the biopsies cause when the vet looked into Patches stomach everything looked excellent, there was no stomach ulcers like we thought, but what I thought he had, he had, waiting & waiting for biopsy results Patch had the Helicobacter-Pylori & IBD, he was put on triple therapy meds for 21 days, Metronidazole, Amoxiccilin to kill the bad bacteria that lives in the stomach walls & Prilosec for the acid reflux the Helicobacter causes, Patch did real well while taken the triple therapy meds then once the 21 day course finished it all came back again within 1 week of stopping the meds, it was a nightmare in the end now Patch takes 20mg Prilosec every morning & only takes the Metronidazole 200mg for 10-14 days when needed, if he’s doing sloppy poos or diarrhea, starts feeling sick everyday & whinging for me to rub his stomach/pancreas area & is eating & eating grass…

Can you ask the rescue group do they have some money in their budget for her to see a Gastro specialist or a vet that knows about stomach/bowel problems, in Australia the rescue groups post picture of the very sick dog & asks for help on their face book page & raise some money so dog can be treated by vet & do the Endoscope + Biopsies need to shop around cause there’s cheaper vets around that do Endoscope & Biopsies, people will help with donations…..
I wanted to do the same give Patch back to rescue group so he got another foster carer, he broke my heart, I couldn’t give him back cause I thought will the new foster carer care for him like I do or will he just be thrown out the back yard again & suffer & the rescue group puts dog up for adoption & someone else gets stuck with the problem hoping they will pay all the vet bills, Patch was weeing blood the day I got him from teh pound, the rescue group had to paid $1,500 for 2x ultrascan, desexing, vacination, vet diet wet & dry food the dissolve his crystals, medications, at that stage he just had Urinary crystal, the rescue vet said he must of gotten infection from being used to breed, I thought everything was done all fixed, he’s all healthy now & I adopted him but it was just the beginning of my sleepless nights the vet office I ended up staying with felt sorry for Patch & me for adopting a sick 4yr old Staffy + all the vet nurses were Staffy lovers & my bet did alot of discount rates & now my vet writes out repeats for his prescriptions so I can get his meds from a chemist it was costing $120 for 1 month of Prilosec, now all I pay is $8 & the Metronidazole only cost $7 when I need it I keep spare in cupboard….

I would be only feeding low fat wet food, nothing over 3% in fat, the fat & protein & isnt like it is in a dry kibble, wet raw & cooked hasnt been converted to dry matter (Kibble) yet, Do NOT feed any more dry kibble, it must make whatever she has, worse, like my boy the kibble made him worse with his IBD (Stomach) in the beginning till we worked out what was wrong & I found a kibble that works for him.
Read what is the fat % in the Cesars wet food??? also start boiling potato or boil sweet potato whatever firms her poos up best & start adding say 2-3 cesars foil tin & the same amount boiled mash potato do not add any butter or mil to the mashed potato & mix potato all thru with the Cesars food, maybe start off with only 1/2 mashed potato with her food cause she may not trust the potato yet, whatever she has got, has cause her alot of pain & she doesn’t trust food no more… I have to go the Pet Shop it’s closing, I have to pick up something, look what are the ingredients & fat % in these Cesars foods she etas & post, stop trying all type of foods for now, I’ll try & find a similair food to the Cesars same ingredients once you post, that is in a bigger tin size & low in fat, maybe someone else knows of a lower fat wet tin food similair to Cesars food….
Do you shop at “Costco” ?? Costco has their “Kirklands Signature” Nature Domain wet tin & its cheap & looks pretty good, click on “Reviews” look for Kirkland, Signature Nature Domain canned foods & click on link & scroll down a bit & there’s a photo of Turkey & Pea stew looks good & you can mash with boiled Potato this will work out cheaper till vet works out whats wrong, also ask the vet can you try a 21 day course of Metronidazole?? take back the vet diet food she won’t eat for refund & ask can you try 2 tins of the Hills I/d Canine Chicken & Vegetables Stew, Digestive Care wet tin food, do not get the Hills I/d Low Fat, Rice, Vegetables Chicken stew Restore, they look similair, the I/d Low fat Restore wet tin is full of rice & fish oil, the I/d canine Chicken & vegetable Stew Digestive Care has less ingredients & has more chucks of meat no fish oil, fish oil can make them feel sick, see if after being taking the 21 day course of Metronidazole if she starts to get better after 4-5th day, it has to be taken with a meal every 12 hours…
What is her name??

[BooPacerKing]

Our vet was quite literally floored when we started describing to him what we gathered from this thread and began to suspect. The vet feels terrible because he’d had us giving our dog allergy medication, acid-control medication, and probiotics, not realizing that the only thing those meds were doing was allowing our dog to tolerate the Acana that may have something wrong with it.

After the Kentucky Ancana, not only did our lab start vomiting up the food (and eventually wouldn’t eat it), but he had also started drooling excessively and having a runny nose.

Turns out the dog quite literally needs none of those medications or dietary supplements. Those meds were merely masking the basic problem. Perhaps some owners would’ve switched foods earlier (and we would’ve if the vet had even hinted at this being related to the food in any of the many times they looked at the dogs for any of these snowballing symptoms), but we had fallen for all the marketing, etc. indicating that Acana was one of the best foods out there. And it remains the best-selling food carried by our local pet store.

When the lab refused to eat the food, one of our other dogs (a small dog who is fed a science diet brand food) grabbed several mouths full. Isn’t it fascinating that the small dog threw up later that day. Different dog, same result. Hmmmm.

As it turns out, the lab would’ve been better off eating any grocery-store brand than the Acana. We now have small bags of three different high-end foods (not Acana or Orijen) that he is currently testing. We have not seen this Labrador this happy and perky in years. No meds or supplements. And seems to be completely symptom free.

Without the science, though, we cannot definitely blame this on the Acana. But the coincidences and the severity of the symptoms on the Acana are too great. If there is something wrong with that food, we can’t just let people feed it to their animals.

My fear is that even if the science says that there are elevated levels of something bad in the food, we will be told that the ingredients are within industry-accepted levels. But it sure seems like there are some dogs not tolerating it and that it is actually causing injury or worse to others. That? Is not ok. But it could be that dog food manufacturers may shrug it off. After all, there must be thousands of dogs in the U.S. eating this food.

But we shall see. The university scientists have already jumped on board to get to the bottom of it, and they themselves will be doing the reporting to the FDA if the tests turn up something untoward.

Someone asked where they could send their dog food to be tested. I believe that Caroline C listed the name of the laboratory that tested her food.

[BooPacerKing]

New member here. Joined just to comment in this thread. Our 4-year old black lab has had serious problems on the Acana food, frighteningly similar to what many have posted here. We have been feeding him Acana for a couple years now. The severe problems seem to conincide with the timing of when our pet food store ran out of the Canadian produced Acana. We’ve tried different flavors of the Acana, which will initially entice him to eat, but he has gotten to where he refuses to eat any Acana and will not go near his food bowl if you put a different brand in that same food bowl. If you then put a different brand any other bowl, he will snarf it down. If you then put the Acana in a new bowl, he will not touch it with a 10-foot pole. Yet, he is NOT a picky eater.

Yes, he has been to the vet. Multiple times. The vet has been scratching his head. Probiotics have not helped. Nor have allergy pills or pills to manage acid.

My gut told me that something is wrong with the Acana food itself, and that git feeling led me here.

Now we are hearing that other dogs in our area–those belonging to friends and people we’ve not met–are having similar issues.

We are today taking samples of the two open bags (different Acana flavors) along with some unopened 5 lb. bags from our local pet food store to Texas A&M to be tested. Will post here what we learn.

And we will be trying to get similar samples from a local woman whose young dog on Acana inexplicably died and her vet suspects the dog was poisoned.

Interestingly, we have the UPC labels from almost every bag of Acana we’ve fed our dog….

[BooPacerKing]

New member here. Joined just to comment in this thread. Our 4-year old black lab has had serious problems on the Acana food, frighteningly similar to what many have posted here. We have been feeing him Acana for a couple years now. The severe problems seem to conincide with the timing of when our pet food store ran out of the Canadian produced food. We’ve tried different flavors of the Acana, which will initially entice him to eat, but he has gotten to where he refuses to eat any Acana and will not go near his food bowl is you put a different brand in that same food bowl. If you then put a different brand any other bowl, he will snarf it down. If you then put the Acana in a new bowl, he will not touch it with a 10-foot pole. Yet, he is NOT a picky eater.

Yes, he has been to the vet. Multiple times. The vet has been scratching his head. Probiotics have not helped. Nor have allergy pills or pills to manage acid.

My gut told me that something is wrong with the Acana food itself, and that git feeling led me here.

Now we are hearing that other dogs in our area–those belonging to friends and people we’ve not met–are having similar issues.

We are today taking samples of the two open bags (different Acana flavors) along with some unopened 5 lb. bags from our local pet food store to Texas A&M to be tested. Will post here what we learn.

And we will be trying to get similar samples from a local woman whose young dog on Acana inexplicably died and her vet suspects the dog was poisoned.

Interestingly, we have the UPC labels from almost every bag of Acana we’ve fed our dog….

[anonymous]

Excerpt from a recent discussion on this topic: https://disqus.com/home/discussion/dogfoodadvisor/acana_regionals_usa_dry/#comment-3352454949
Mike Sagman Mod Caroline C • 2 months ago
Exercise caution when relying on these kinds of reports.
When testing any (human or pet) food, the results can differ significantly from day to day based on the specific farm or batch used as a source for any one individual ingredient.
As with any laboratory study, it is absolutely critical to collect a statistically significant (large) number of test samples from multiple batches to avoid a misleading variable known as sampling error. Read about that here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wi…
In addition, guidelines used for interpreting the results can also be change or manipulated. This can cause certain products to move from one rating category to another — and even from “best” to “worst” lists. Read about that here:
https://wagbrag.com/clean-l…
By the way, Champion Petfoods, the maker of Acana and Orijen, has recently (2017) been recognized by the Global Food Safety Initiative (GFSI) for its food safety program at the company’s new Kentucky DogStar facility. You can read about that here:
http://www.bgdailynews.com/…
You can also learn about the GFSI program here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wi…
Hope this helps.

[Dave R]

So, my three dry options are;

Orijen – Seens great, filler free, high protein

Acana – Looks great ingredient wise, high protein; however, there’s some horrid negative reviews on kidney failure, not sure if theyre recent or due to the new kentucky plant. And they contain catfish meal, are they not bottom dwellers?

Nulo – Not many reviews, USA Made, looks great, no negative reviews

Honest Kitchen – Already Have it. I’ll probably just add this to his dry and wet foods on occasion.
________

Wet foods;

Nulo
Koha
Natures Logic – Possible raw frozen as well
________

So man to choose from it can be overwhelming.

[Tabitha F]

Hi there! I could really use some advice! My Lily is a 17 week old golden retriever puppy. She is having what we think are food allergy issues, so we were trying to eliminate chicken and grains. She is currently eating Victor Yukon River which is grain free and contains salmon and sweet potatoes. It is an all life stage good. Our dog trainer recommended it, as well as the owner of the. Atrial pet supply store locally. I was fine with it until I read that high protein and calcium can lead to joint issues for large breed dogs! I adore Lily, and I am so afraid I am going to make the wrong decision given that goldens are so prone to joint issues.

On the Victor website, the protein content is listed at 33.9% and the calcium at 1.78%. Do you guys have any suggestions? I hate to switch her food again, because we’ve already tried several, but I don’t want to damage her joints. Thank you SO much in advance!!

[Susan]

Hi Ashley,
My boy didn’t do well on the Purina Pro Plan Sensitive Digestion, read the ingredients in the Purina Pro Plan large breed puppy, I bet you there’s a ingredient or a few ingredients that’s she is very sensitive or intolerant too & can not eat, also write down the ingrediets & the protein, fat & fiber % in the Purina Pro Plan Large Breed formula, the ingredients are not the best in the American Purina Pro Plan formula’s…
Keep a diary just in case you need it later to look back on if this keeps happening…

Can you afford to buy the Hills I/d Digestive Care dry kibble formula the matching formula to the I/d wet tin your feeding at the moment? it comes in a dry kibble as well you could buy a cartoon of the I/d wet tins & a medium size bag I/d Digestive Care dry kibble, enough to last 1 month so you can start introducing the new kibble as well that you want her on?
My boy does real well on the Hills I/d Digestive Care wet & dry formula I use this or the “Taste Of The Wild” Sierra Mountain, Roasted Lamb kibble when Patch has diarrhea & his poo’s will not firm back up, both formula’s fix his stomach, bowel & get him back on track again, the Hill’s I/d Digestive care has vitamin B’s, electrolytes & antioxidents what’s needed for diarrhea, to make their Intestinal tract healthy again….
Your better off sticking with the food she is eating at the moment & doing well on, then after 2-4 weeks when she is doingreal well, then start introducing a limited ingredient large breed puppy formula with around the same protein% & fat% & fiber % as the vet diet kibble she’s been eating, but if your feeding wet tin food then your not going to really know what percentage she does best on when eating a dry kibble?? just stay around the 25 % in protein nothing over 27-28% in protein & not too many meat proteins, stick with just 1 meat protein in the new kibble, less is best..

“Canidae” has a few Large Breed Puppy formula’s with grains like the vet diet she is eating at the moment has, I would be taking back the Purina Pro Plan Large Puppy & getting a refund or exchanging with something else, then you have to slowley introduce the new kibble over 10 day period, I start with under 1/4 of a cup new kibble added to under 1 cup old kibble feed this for 2 days & use old kibble for treats for training the first 4 days, do not buy any other brand treats that have different ingredients cause the more different foods you feed then if she has diarrhea again you will not know which food has caused the diarrhea…. then you feed 1/3 of a cup new kibble added to her old kibble, you take away 1/3 of the old kibble to make 1 cup, feed for the next 2 days, if poo start to go sloppy then you go back to 1/4 a cup or what ever she was eating & doing firm poo’s on…
Here’s “Canidae” life stages, large breed puppy, Turkey meal & Brown Rice puppy formula
https://www.canidae.com/dog-food/products/canidae-all-life-stages-large-breed-turkey- meal-brown-rice
Another good kibble to start with is “California Nutural” Chicken & Rice or Lamb & Rice Puppy both these formula’s only has 4 ingredients…. the Californiia Natural puppy would have been good to feed when the diarrhea first started…. http://www.californianaturalpets.com/brands/california-natural

[MIRJANA V]

hi Susan!
Thank you so much for the reply! I am in NYC. Yes she had a script for Metr but I took her off it as soon as she got better I’m really not into pumping her up full of chemicals and teh vet said as soon as he stools clear up take her off it. She has been on ziwi for 4 years now so am confused as to why all of a sudden it would be a problem. I love their ingredients (air dried) and love that it’s grain free no fillers and crap like some others on the Market that’s why I’m so hesitant to keep her on Royal Canin just reading the ingredient list makes me so upset it’s full of unhealthy unnecessary fillers and on top of that she started itching like crazy another reason I switched her to a premium food like Ziwi to begin with. So although her stomach and stools are better nw she has other symptoms of almost food-like allergy is best I can describe with the itching. I just want her to be healthy and especially since she’s older now. She get’s so much exercise I have a dog walking service here in NYC and she can still crush 15 miles a day with me no problem so very active still I just want to make sure what I’m putting in her body is doing her good and not harm and I don’t think Royal Canin is that product that I can trust.

[MIRJANA V]

Hi Lisa!,
I’m so glad to have seen your post and all these others above. I have a 10 year old adopted yorkie-poo who in the last year or so started having bouts of loose stools every few months. Last month was the worst it’s ever been so much blood and vomiting we had to rush her to the ER where they admitted her overnight on fluids and antibiotics. They diagnosed her with HGE after all her blood work came back normal we had to do 10 days of antibiotics which confused me as to what exactly we were treating since HGE from what I read didn’t seem like it was a bacterial or parasitic infection . It happened again exactly 30 days later this time minus the vomiting and blood jut loose stool. We took her to our regular vet which was on vacation and had a fill in there for her. I brought everything that my Tilly girl eats which has strictly been Ziwipeak air dried since 2013. She suggested that we switch her food do Royal Canin lowfat GI or Hills Science Diet low fat GI. Both foods to me don’t sit well to me because of their ingredients but her stomach is doing better. I’m starting to wonder if this is all happening now because Ziwipeak recently changed their recipes I believe they stated they only omitted items streamlining the ingredients but I am no really sure. Or is this a case of Tilly just getting older an in fact this food being too high in fat/protein for her? I am inclined to reach out to Ziwi to speak to someone and research this a little more. I have been really happy with their product and she was doing so well on it for so many years I find it hard to switch her to crappy ingredients but if it will help whatever is happening I guess I have to I am hoping to find another brand that has better ingredients than RC or HSD. If anyone has any suggestions or insight to this please share!

[Susan]

Hi
this does my head in, I live in Australia & we are NOT having this problem with TOTW in Australia, TOTW have 5 manufacturing facilities that make TOTW, 1 plant is in Central California, 1 is in Northen California, Missouri, South Carolina & Arkansas…
People have to start posting the area they live, the TOTW formula they are feeding & the use by expiry date on the back of kibble bag????? not just “Don’t feed TOTW”
this way we can work out which facility these TOTW bags are coming from that are making dogs sick?:?? the TOTW that comes to Australia & goes to all of the countries in Europe comes from their South Carolina facility, we are not having any problems in Australia so there’s 1 facility that isnt having any problems with TOTW formula’s they are making, so probably people in America getting their TOTW from the South Carolina facility their dogs are OK….
after looking into this & emailing TOTW before any TOTW formula’s leave their facilities each batch gets tested & the test results of that batch gets put into their computer so the can look back if anything happens, I really think it could be a storage problem, it’s hot Summer in America & the last pet shop from California that made a big fuss about TOTW being bad ended up being contained to their customers buying from their pet store….

All these post on Face Book scares people especially when you have a sick dog, I have a Staffy with IBD + Skin Allergies + Food Sensitivities, he has a very sensitive stomach & he does his best with his skin & bowel when he’s eating TOTW Sierra Mountian Roasted Lamb formula, I do rotate between different brand kibbles but not as much as I did a few years ago when I was looking for a kibble that wasn’t a vet diet that helped with Patches skin as well as his IBD & finally I found a kibble he does real good on & doesn’t get his stomach pain & diarrhea was TOTW, he does OK on Canidae as well but Canidae uses chickpeas in their lower fat grain free pure formula’s, so he gets the Canidae Pure Wild only a few days a week so he doesnt get his stomach pain, it has chickpeas & is higher in Kcals then his TOTW formula is…..

I’ve read thru some of the complaints on Consumer Affairs site & some people are just idiots, 1 lady’s dog got Pancreatitis while eating the TOTW High Prairie formula, probably cause the protein & fat was too high for her dog, so her vet put her dog on a low fat vet diet then after 2 weeks this lady put her poor dog back onto TOTW High Prairie formula & then she complaining, TOTW is killing her poor dog cause it had another Pancreatitis attack, what an idiot donatate the rest of teh kibble to someone or a rescue group, some post the people had a sick dog with health problems, nothing to do with what the dog was eating, if you look Consumer Affairs 10 best dog foods, TOTW cames 13th & Canidae came 1st…. another thing that can make a dog react & very SICK is flea products…..

You should always rotate between a few different brands that have different proteins…… when a dog eats the same food 24/7 year after year they can react to an ingredient in the food after eating it for years…. Hills & Purina write this on their Hydrolyse vet diet section…

[Yx]

Hello pitluv – While it it true that we cannot tell the quality of the meats used by simply reading an ingredient label, we do know that there are companies that never use generic by-products, animal digests, meat and bone meals, artificial coloring, artificial flavoring, ingredients sourced from China, menadione sodium bisulfite complex, toxic preservatives such as BHA, BHT, TBHQ and Ethoxyquin,, and those that do.
For example, these are the ingredients in Purina’s Alpo brand Prime Cuts Savory Beef Flavor – Ground Yellow Corn, Meat and Bone Meal, Soybean Meal, Beef Tallow Preserved with Mixed-Tocopherols, Corn Gluten Meal, Egg and Chicken Flavor, Poultry and Pork Digest, Salt, Potassium Chloride, Choline Chloride, Red 40, Zinc Sulfate, Ferrous Sulfate, Vitamin E Supplement, L-Lysine Monohydrochloride, Yellow 5, Manganese Sulfate, Blue 2, Niacin, Vitamin A Supplement, Copper Sulfate, Calcium Pantothenate, Thiamine Mononitrate (Vitamin B-1), Garlic Oil, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride (Vitamin B-6), Vitamin B-12 Supplement, Riboflavin Supplement (Vitamin B-2), Vitamin D-3 Supplement, Calcium Iodate, Menadione Sodium Bisulfite Complex (Source of Vitamin K Activity), Folic Acid, Biotin, Sodium Selenite. I-5020.

It would stand to reason that a company that avoids the above low-quality ingredients would likely be using higher quality meats in their formulations, in fact, there are brands such as ORIJEN that use “human grade ingredients” – “The fresh meats, meat meals and fat ingredients we use are produced exclusively from animals that have been deemed as fit for human consumption, and are produced in category 3 facilities (human grade facilities, no flushing, and no 4-D animal parts permitted on premises). All fruits and vegetables used in ORIJEN foods are also passed as fit for human consumption.” -https://www.orijen.ca/faq/#fresh_regional_ingredients

In any case, I am glad to read that all your animals are doing well.

[Carter K]

I have been feeding Orijen to my Golden Retriever since he was a puppy. I never had a single complaint with the Canadian food. It consistently came vacuum sealed, and opening the bag you could see that the food was moist and rich in nutrients.

The new formula from Kentucky is so lousy I can’t stand it. I had several bags that the color was extremely light colored, the pieces were very thin or small, and there was an abundance of food particles all over the bag. I was getting ready to switch, when I bought another bag. FINALLY, I got a bag where the kibble was larger, darker in color, and appeared to be the same type of quality as the Canadian plant. I thought that perhaps they had corrected whatever issues they may have been having at the Kentucky plant, but I have not been able to find another bag of this quality since.

Orijen sent me a long-winded response about using “fresh ingredients” and how this causes variation in the food; however, this was never an issue with the Canadian formula. At this point, I don’t know what to feed him as I had previously been so thrilled with Six Fish as it has kept him lean, his muscles strong, and his coat beautiful. If there was SOME way for me to still buy the Canadian food I absolutely would! 🙁

[Susan]

Hi Dewper,
if you live America then there’s a cream similiar to the Sudocrem sold at supermarket but I can’t remember the name, a lady posted it on the “Dog, issues, allergies and other information support” f/b group, it has the same ingredients, (I think) as the Sudocrem has.
I live Australia & the Sudocrem is sold supermarkets & chemist in the baby section with the coconut oil & aloe & cucumber baby wipes are, I’ve read people who live America buy Sudocrem from Amazon or read ingredient list & look for a baby cream sold at supermarket with similiar ingredients…..
When your boy wasnt licking his paws real bad was he eating the same food he’s eating now or a different food? it’s so hard to work out allergies cause dogs normally will have both food & envrionment alergies, I was thinking is he may be a compulsive licker?? my Patch was when I first rescued him, paw licking sets off their endorphins, especially when they lick & lick themselves to sleep…my Patch all of a sudden dissappears & I find him in my room or the spare room licking his paw, then there’s the big wet patch on the bed aaaaaarrrrhhhhh it’s always just one of his paws he’s licking not both paws, he has white paws, I have a quick look at his paw & paw will be red up & sometimes in between his toes, so if he’s due for his weekly bath in a couple of days I bath him earlier & I bath him in the Malaseb shampoo also sold on Amazon & you leave the shampoo on his paws 5-10 mins if you can, the Malaseb is excellent for Allergies, itchy skin & yeasty skin….after his bath his paws look heaps better & aren’t itchy no more, so something in the Malaseb reduces the reddness & itch, then that night I apply the Hydrocortisone cream in between the tows & everywhere that’s red by morning all reddness is all gone, when I get a bit lazy I dont keep up with his daily routine applying creams his red paws happens….
It’s Winter in Australia & this is the worst Winter Patch has had so far, he normally does real well thru the colder Winter months as long as I’m not feeding him any ingredients he’s sensitive too, but this Winter has been heaps warmer & plants are flowering so I’d say the pollen count is higher…. another thing check what the Omega 3 % is in the kibble your feeding him some kibbles arent balanced properly & are higher in Omega 6 & real low in Omega 3, the omega 3% should be around 1/2 of what the omega 6% is…..as soon as you open your bag of kibble all the oils start to go rancid from the air/oxygen, so your omega 3% becomes less, they say a kibble only last about 2 weeks once you’ve opened it google ” How long does a kibble stay fresh once it’s opened”
The best thing to do is add a few small sardines to his diet a day, start buying the tin Sardines in spring water or olive oil, Aldi’s sell cheap good sardines & salmon in spring water, just add a few sardines or spoons of the salmon to 1 of his meals or give as a treat, I make salmon cakes just boil some potato or sweet potatoes & cool then mix with the drained tin of salmon or start giving him a fish capsule if he has sensitive stomach/bowel then get the Krill Oil capsules they’re suppose to be better for senstive stomach, my boy can’t have fish/salmon oil it gives him acid reflux, he does better when he eats foods high in Omega 3, almonds are excellent I give about 3 Almonds some days but make sure he chews them or they will come back out whole, I don’t know but a lady said her dog got into the bag of almonds & it wasnt nice, I bite 1/2 an almond & give the other 1/2 of the almond to patch & say chew, even have a look at the K-9 Natural Green Lipped Mussels freeze dried treats Chewy sell them & other brands as well, I give my cat & Patch a couple mussels a day as treats… You just need to keep in a daily routine, 1 lady from f/b group I mentioned above said she has a water tray near the front door & her dog walks thru it to wash off any allergens on his paws but I’d rather put him in a empty bath, wet his paws & wash & leave soaking in the Malaseb shampoo this works really well then rinse & dry. another thing in the beginning after I applied cream if you know he’s going to lay down to sleep & lick, then I put on a baby socks or a cut up elastic bandage with the bandage tape around the top, this stops the paw licking & gets him out of the compulsive licking.. this is what I had to do with Patch in the beginning..
When your boy is licking his paw do you look at the paw to see if it’s red, swollon etc ?

[Susan]

Hi dewper,
have you tried giving baths twice a week in “Malaseb” medicated shampoo?? baths wash off any allergens that are on the paws, skin & fur, when I first rescued my boy he was a paw licker, now he’s been diagnosed with IBD, Environment allergies & food sensitivities/intolerances, he was put on a high omega 3 skin vet diet but it didn’t help with his red itchy paws or sloppy poo’s, it helped his skin, so I did a food elimination diet & worked out what foods he was sensitive too that were causing his red itchy paws, itchy ears where he’d shake his head, bum surfing on the carpet, & itchy skin… but when they have both environment allergies & food sensitivities it’s very hard to work out what’s causing what…so its best to do food elimination diet in the winter the colder months when all the pollens flowers etc aren’t out..
Have you joined face book group called “Dog, issues, allergies and other information support” group a Dermatologist is in the group, Dr Karen Helton Rhodes DMV, DACVD she has a F/B group called “Canine Skin Solutions”
I use Hydrocortisone 1% cream on his paws & in between toes at night then during the day before our walk I use “Sudocrem” on his paws & white sections of fur & pink skin the Sudocrem is for nappy rash, eczema & dermatitis & acts as a barrier & protects the skin it’s excellent if your dog has grass allergies, itchy bum & skin, when my boy walks on wet grass he gets his red paws also, chicken, barley, oats, corn & wheat causes itchy skin & itchy paws within 20 mins of eating these foods, carrots make his ears itch & the head tilting & shaking start… start keeping a diary..
It’s best to give baths, use creams & socks to stop the paw licking & have you looked into a raw diet?? all Patches skin problems disappeared within 1 week when he started a raw diet high in omega 3 & probiotic to strengthen his immune system also high potency vitamin C is excellent..
If I see Patch licking his paws I say NO lick & I stop him licking his paws & go & get the Sudocrem & apply if it’s in the day & before bed I apply the Hydrocortisone 1% cream you’ll get into a routine & work out what works best for your boy….baths in Malaseb shampoo twice a week will stop & relieve any itchy skin & paws. also when he looks bored & starts to lick paws give him something natural & healthy to chew on, a healthy raw meaty bone will stop any paw licking, chicken & turkey bone is the softest bone to chew & digest… read all ingredients to any treats you buy..
can I ask 1 question after he licks & licks his paws does he burp, do you hear him burp??

[Susan]

Hi ac,
first I find a kibble that I hoped agreed with Patch, I slowly introduce & see how Patch does on the kibble for 1-2 months, but this wasn’t always the way 4 yrs ago I had to keep Patch on a vet diet for 9-12 months to fix his bowel & strengthen his immune system but the vet diet made his skin itch & smell yeasty cause he was sensitive to the chicken, corn, wheat & corn gluten meal….
Food sensitivities/intolerances can take anywhere from 1 day to react up to 6 weeks & react with sloppy poo’s, gas/wind pain, (bad smelly farts) yeasty itchy ears, paws & skin, rubbing bum on carpet, grass or ground, with Patch I know within 1-2 days if he’s sensitive to an ingredient…..
Now I can rotate daily or a couple days a week, some days I’ll give Patch his Taste Of The Wild, Sierra Mountain Roasted lamb for the bigger meals breakfast & dinner then for lunch I give a smaller wet cooked meal, I give him a different kibble or a wet tin food or his cooked rissoles mashed up with sweet potato for his smaller meals 12pm & 8pm…

With your pup just feed him 1 kibble that agrees with him & he does the best on for 6-9 months while he’s growing, don’t try any new kibbles yet unless he starts doing sloppy poo’s, then later on you keep this kibble as his main kibble & his go to kibble if he starts doing sloppy poos/diarrhea, only give new foods as a treat to start with.
Patch does real well on his TOTW Roasted Lamb, so he gets his TOTW feed as main meals at 7am & 5pm then for the smaller meals lunch-12pm & second dinner-8pm he gets 1/3 cup of another kibble that I know agrees with him or wet tin or cooked meal or I change it around & feed his TOTW for the smaller meals it all depends how he’s doing that day if he’s well or has his pancreas/stomach pain then he just eats his TOTW kibble….
After 4-5 yrs I have a pretty good idea what agrees with Patch, I introduced the new Hills D/D Venison & Potato vet diet 3 months ago, we just got the Hills D/D Venison in Australia, it’s the only vet diet that agrees with Patch & he doesn’t itch & get yeasty smelly paws & skin & helps his IBD, it’s high in omega 3, helps with digestion & stool quality when they start doing bigger poo’s helps with his skin, it’s gluten & grain free & I know 100% that the only intact meat protein is venison from new Zealand.. so if he has a IBD flare I now have a vet diet that I can fall back onto but he gets a bit of acid reflux some times I think cause the fat is 16.3% & the higher omega 3 oils, so the TOTW is still his go to kibble that helps his IBD, I just wanted another kibble as well just in case something ever happens, I now have 2 kibbles, I also have his Canidae Pure Wild boar but it’s higher in Kcals per cup over 400 Kcals per cup & Patch seems to get his pancreas or stomach pain when a kibble is over 370 Kcals per cup & if the protein is over 28%, so I only feed the Canidae Pure Wild now for one of his smaller meals some days, his smaller meals lunch & 2nd dinner…..Patch eats 4 meals a day..
I cook fresh pumkin & sweet potato for Patch & freeze 20-30 gram size pieces & I take 1 piece pumkin or sweet potato out & 1 x 1/2 cup size pork rissole & leave in fridge the night before to thaw over night & feed as a small meal, if your pup does well on boiled pumkin then I’d cook some chicken breast cut into small pieces or buy some lean turkey mince make into small 1/2 cup size rissoles balls just add 1 whisked egg, mix & then bake rissoles in oven, cool then freeze & take out when needed & take out some pumkin or sweet potato pieces & make a small snack meal, this is how I started introducing foods to Patch after we found out he has IBD, I’d still feed the kibble that agreed with Patch for breakfast & dinner & the small meal was the new food meal, I was trying to see what agreed with him without upsetting his stomach/bowel, take little baby steps, also try giving new foods as a treat, make sure it’s the same food for the month if he seems to do well then you’ll know he can eat that food, keep a diary….. if your pup does well on pumkin then look for kibbles with sweet potato & potato..
What kibble is he doing well on? read the fat% protein% & fiber% & Kcals per cup & what are the ingredients…try & work out why is he doing really good on this kibble??

[MATT C]

I’m guilty of over-researching some things. Going to a raw food diet is one of them apparently… To start out is there any reason I can’t get a supply of good quality chicken thighs, freeze them, and thaw out a couple to give my pup each day?

Is it really this simple?!?!

We have a 2-year-old small dog (Cavalier King Charles Spaniel + Poodle mix) who has been on so many types of hypoallergenic dog food that I’ve lost count of all of what we’ve tried. He’s about 17 pounds now and has been eating Hills Science Diet z/d which is all that he has been able to tolerate so far. He still goes through periods of loose stool and what we call “flare-ups” when he’s clearly not himself. We’ve gone through the allergy testing but even the “safe” proteins have given him problems. This is why I want to go raw…

This is what I think I will do. Any comments, thoughts or suggestions would be appreciated!

1) Pick a weekend when I will be home to start this (my wife is not exactly on board with this idea…)

2) Fast Jasper on Friday (he normally eats 2x per day)

3) Not do a transition period, but start him with 1/4 pound of raw chicken 2x per day. His feeding times have been between 7-8am and then again between 5-6pm.

4) Assuming he eats this I will be prepared to get up at nights for the aftermath. From the reading I’ve done I would expect this to last a week or two as he adjusts.

5) After 1 to 2 months I can start adding in other sources of protein.

Again, any comments or suggestions would be great! Oh, here’s Jasper:

https://www.instagram.com/p/BWiaZkWFWj7/?taken-by=mbcoulter

[anonymous]

Example:
(from a previous thread on the same subject)
Also there are prescription meds for stubborn cases, talk to your vet.
Was an ultrasound done? Dogs can have more than one type of stone, such as calcium oxalate and struvite…that was the case with my dog that had reoccurring UTIs.
This is not veterinary advice; consult your veterinarian.

[Elise S]

That’s one of the problems every breeding has their own opinion of what is the “Best feeding program” only based on thier experience. Some people swear by a for but when you really start to read about it’s not something I wasn’t my dog on.There doesn’t seam to be one general train of thought. Are hip/elbows getting better or worse, if better because of diet what are people feeding.

Because of this unusually giant breed with the average life spam of 7-9 yrs. Weve seen huge improvements in the overall health of the breed. With correct health testing, breeding, exercise and yes diet, we’re starting to see these guys life long healthy lives 11-13 yrs.

When I breed a bitch I monitor and control everything about her food from the day she goes into season. Giant breed puppy foods can be just as hard because of to much protein. Some breedersput puppies on senior foods for lower protein, but I don’t believe the puppies are not getting calories and calcium.

[Elise S]

I show, and breed English mastiffs. There are Hugh different opinions on what to feed!
This is a low energy, exstreamly fast growing, big boned breed.
We are talking about a puppy going from 1-2 lbs. at birth to 25-30 lbs. in 8 weeks, over 150 lbs. by 1 year. Adult average weight for a male is 210-250 lbs. I even have a 20 month old male that’s already 275lbs. He is exception to the rule. Correct exercise is very important even for these guys that grow so fast, low energy, and can get over heated fast.
For more that 8 yrs. I’ve driven myself nuts reading dog food labels. Most dog foods I find are for energetic dogs about 100lbs. Maybe up to 150lbs.
I’m not ready to go raw, it seems you can just as easy give them the wrong ratio of nutrients.
I have 8 mastiffs so cost is some what of an issue but I put there health first. Small pieces of kibble can be a problem with choking even for slow eaters.
I’ve heard there are some ingredients that are considered “hot” foods. “?”
You can have a 200lbs muscular football player or a 200lbs couch potato. Developing muscle without putting to much pressure on fast growing joints is a trick.
With all this in mind slow growth low protein is a must.
Low energy is easy to get over weight.

Dose anyone have any suggestions?

[Susan]

Hi Lindsay,
make sure you read the fat % on a wet tin foods, the fat in raw & wet tin foods hasn’t been converted to dry matter fat(kibble) here’s a calculator conversion link to help you work out the fat% protein & fiber %, higher fat can cause pancreatitis, weight gain etc. roughly 5%min-fat in a wet tin food is around 20%min-25%max fat % when converted to dry matter, so stick with wet tin foods 5% & under for fat…. http://www.k-9kraving.com/resources/calculator.php

I like smaller size kibbles, have a look at “Canidae” pure formula’s, they are grain free have limited ingredients & have single meat proteins, look at the Pure Wild, Pure Land formula’s, they both only have 7 ingredients & smell really good, no bad fishy smell… Canidae kibbles are easy to digest & soften within 20mins when soaked in warm water…
I would soak about 1/2 cup kibble in warm water for 15-20mins before your going to feed him, but make sure the kibble is soft all the way thru, so 20mins soaking should be long enough if it’s a Canidae kibble, Canidae kibbles are high in Kcals per cup, a 50lb-75lb dog that is exercise only need’s 2-3 cups a day, not much exercise 1-1 1/2 cups a day, the Canidae Pure Wild Boar is 454Kcals per cup, the Pure Land is 474Kcals per cup….

My dog doesn’t really like fish either but loves Bison, lamb, kangaroo & pork, he can’t eat Chicken or fish, change meat protein to 1 novel protein, Lamb, Bison, Pork, Kangaroo see how he goes.. Pure Land is on page 2, Pure Wild is on page 3 scroll down read ingredients & see kibble size, you need a small size kibble so when the kibble swells it isn’t real big don’t over soak & leave kibble soaking in the water for too long, no over night soaking the kibble it will swell & become too big & fill with water 20mins just softens the kibble & make sure it’s not hard in the middle, just squeeze a few kibbles to make sure they’re all soft all the way thru, so he doesn’t catch on to what you’re doing these dogs are very smart, lol
I just remember what I did with my boy when his IBD was real bad, I soaked the kibbles till soft then I fully drained out all of the water they were soaking in, I cuffed my hand in the bowl & pushed hand against kibble in bowl & squeezed out the water in the soft kibbles, then I put the soft kibbles thru a blender & this broke the soft kibbles all up, then you can mix thru the wet tin food, does he like treats?? when you first get the bag of kibble put about 1 cup kibble in a air tight container & give a few kibbles to him as treats so he gets to likes them…

Sometimes when food has cause pain or some type of health problem, the dog becomes fussy cause the food has caused some discomfort, gas, wind pain, diarrhea, acid reflux, vomiting etc so now he see’s kibble as bad……or he’s a very smart dog & knows how kibble is made, LOL
https://www.canidae.com/dog-food/products

[Susan]

Hi teagsmom,
why not feed wet tin food or cooked soft meals, even if its just 1 meal wet food then the other meal a kibble….. kibble is very hard to chew, the only kibble I know is small & very easy to digest & goes soft all the way thru when water is added is the “Canidae” Pure Meadow Senior but it’s Chicken, Chicken Meal Turkey Meal, Sweet potatoes…here’s Canidae’s site look at all their formula’s, there’s also their Pure Wild Boar, Pure Land, Pure Sea, Pure Sky all have no chicken, all Canidaes kibbles are very small & very easy to digest… https.www.canidae.com/dog-food/products
if you do feed a wet tin food, read the fat % & stay under 5%-fat, wet & raw pet foods aren’t converted to dry matter fat & protein, so 5%min fat is around 20%-25% max – fat if it were a kibble…

[Maria S]

It has been a lot of years since I have had to worry about Chylothorax. My GSD was diagnosed at the very young age of 1 year, she is now nearly 9. She never showed any sign that she was sick, then for 2 days she only nibbled at her food and on the third day she was breathing heavier than normal. I took her to our normal vet, they took x-rays and saw fluid so they tapped her chest, 3-4 Liters and kept her chest kept filling up within minutes. They told us they were not equip to handle the situation and our only chance was to take her to the specialist right then and there or euthanize. So my husband and I rushed our girl to the ER.

Once there, they did more diagnostics to try to figure out what was causing the Chylothorax so they knew how to go about trying to treat it. After about $2500 in diagnostics, it came back idiopathic, no medical reason for it. We ended up having to leave her at the ER overnight and finally by the next day she was doing a little better. She stopped building up fluid and she was allowed to go home. The doctors told us to start a low fat diet, Rutin, and minimize the exercise. I do not remember dosing of the Rutin, I believe we started out at 1500mg 3x/day (86lb at that time). I don’t know the science behind the dosing either, I just did what I was told.

Doing this treatment, Daisy did well for about 3 months before we had to take her in again to get her chest tapped. The doctors increased the Rutin to 3000mg 3x/day, I was going through I think 3-4 bottles a week. It must have helped some though because Daisy did well until November, about 11 months after being diagnosed. She was tapped the first week of November, then the third week, then 5 days later, then 3, then 2, then needed done again the next day. Each time was harder to get fluid out because of the fibrin that was building up after each tap. They told me I had to do surgery or euthanize.

We made an appointment with the surgeon for a consultation. We were hesitant because of everything we had been told and read it didn’t look good. The surgeon, however, told us that he had a 79% success chance (that may not sound good to most people but with the 35% odds that we were reading about this sounded great) so we set up the surgery for the next day. We were quoted $2500-$4000 depending on recovery. Daisy did very well with the surgery (thoracic duct ligation and pericardectomy), ended up having to stay 1 extra day because of mild fluid buildup still. I got to take her home the day before her 2nd birthday.

Daisy stayed on Rutin for I’d say 6 months or maybe more and still to this day stays on a low fat diet. I get yearly chest x-rays to make sure fluid is not building up again and so far it has not. She plays pretty normal for the most part, she will play until her tongue starts to turn blue so I do have to watch her.

My point to this lengthy response is this: The surgery may be pricey, and yes it is not a 100% guarantee it will cure Chylothorax, but there are still better odds of it helping rather than not doing a surgery at all. I feel a drain would be best if the surgery does not work (obviously curing the condition would be better than just treating) or if it is your only option because of money issues. On that note though, I wish I had found this forum when I was dealing with this. It would have been nice to know that there was another treatment if they surgery did not work, no doctor ever mentioned this to me.

I wish the best of luck to everyone that is battling Chylothorax and if I can help in any way, please feel free to reach out to me.

[A]

Sweet potatoes, potatoes, peas, etc convert to sugar and sugar feeds yeast. Brown rice is a complex carb and converts slower.
Grains aren’t always the problem, everyone at my work feeds a grain food and we all have a variety of dogs from little pups to mastiffs,pits, labs, and retrievers. We have more customers on a grain food that have left the grain free world due to the extreme high fat and carb protein sources.

This is out of one of Dr Beckers articles :

Yeast needs sugar as a source of energy. Carbohydrates break down into sugar. Both MDs and veterinarians advise patients with yeast to get the sugars out of their diets.

Dietary sugar isn’t just the white kind added to many pet treats and some pet foods. There are ‘secret,’ hidden forms of sugar that can also feed yeast overgrowth, for instance, honey. Although honey can be beneficial for pets in some cases, it does provide a food source for yeast. So if your dog is yeasty, you’ll need to carefully read his pet food and treat labels and avoid any product containing honey, high fructose corn syrup, and even white potatoes and sweet potatoes.

[Susan]

Hi Ginger,
Sorry its a long post but it’s hard to explain everything in 1-2 paragraphs hopefully some of this information will help your girls itchy skin…
Your girl sounds like my boy who will be 9 yrs old in November, he suffers with IBD, Pancreatitis, environment skin allergies & food sensitivities causing itchy smelly skin,paws, ears, gas & diarrhea, we thought he had diabetes a few months ago cause he was drinking & drinking water but blood test were all fine thank-god, I couldn’t handle another health problem, I feel so sorry for sick animals. 🙁
I wouldn’t try the Cytopoint injections with your dog yet, has your vet explained how Cytopoint works? My vet looked into the Cytopoint injections, she explained once you’ve given the injection it stays in the dogs system up to 6-8 weeks, so if it makes them ill there’s nothing that can be done to reverse any side effects cause Patch reacts to certain medications & it’s a newer drug we don’t have any real research results yet, after a couple of years vets will know more how dogs react that have certain health problems like our dogs have, when the dog is younger & heathier yes I think CADI is the best thing for itchy dogs better the Apoquel, now Apoquel has been out over a few years vets see all the side effects so in a few years when vets have used Cytopoint, they’ll know & can report any bad side effects if there are any?…

My vet said Apopuel doesn’t help when a dog has itchy skin from secondary Malassezia (Yeast) Dermatitis, Apoquel cannot resolve inflammation or treat yeast, she said Apoquel
has helped a few of her dog patients that have IBD but I was to scared to try Apoquel with Patch cause one of the side effects with Apoquel is nausea & vomiting, my vet did have a few dogs that become very sick while taking the Apoquel, so I changed his diet, bathed him weekly to wash off any allergens on his paws & body to relieve his itchy skin paws & I use creams. As they get older the allergies get worse..

They are finding Cytopoint works better then Apoquel for environment allergies & itchy skin, CADI blocks the receptors completely, where Apoquel blocks the reaction from the allergens receptors, there’s a good face book group to join “Dog issues, allergies and other information support group” with really good information about CADI & Apoquel.. a lady called Petra that runs the group can explain things better…

I would be changing her diet first, when my Patch was eating the Hills I/d wet & dry formula’s & other foods that had the ingredients he was sensitive too he got his red paws, smelly yeasty itchy skin & that’s only cause he’s a sensitive to the chicken, oats, barley tapioca, corn gluten meal in the I/d vet diet & other foods he was eating, once I remove these allergens he is OK thru the cooler Winter months then when Summer comes he gets his environment allergies so I bath more, I use hydrocortisone 1% cream to relieve the itch & feed treats that are high in omega 3 fatty acid like K-9 Natural freeze dried Green Lipped Mussels, ask your vet can your try the Royal Canine HP wet tin food the fat is 2.5% you’ll have to email or ring Royal Canine & ask them what is the max fat % when converted to dry mater?? it’s probably around 7-8% fat when converted to dry matter (Kibble fat), Hills have already converted all their wet tin foods on their internet site, I wish other pet food companies did the same cause people don’t no this & read 5%-fat on a wet tin foods or raw foods & think the fat % is low when 5% fat is around 20% fat when converted to dry matter, the Australian R/C HP is 3.5% in the wet tin food, when converted it was 13% fat, it has the omega 3 oils & everything needed for skin problems, or I’d say look at the R/C selected proteins formula’s PR-Rabbit & Potato or PD-Duck & Potato or PV-Venison & Potato but the R/C in the wet tin wet tin foods the fat is too high for Pancreatitis 4-5% when converted to dry matter is around 15-20% fat but the dry R/C select proteins kibbles are lower in fat at 10%max but your feed wet tin..

Have you joined the “Canine Pancreatitis Support ” Face Book group,
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1435920120029740/
join & look in their “Files” there’s 2 links “Low Fat Food” click on the first link & scroll down, all the low fat wet tin foods come up, on your right there’s the converted fat %, it’s been converted to dry matter fat % also read the ingredients in the Hills Wet tin food she is eating at the moment, try & avoid those some of those ingredients if you can, she is probably sensitive to a few ingredients in the I/d wet tin formula’s, that’s why I recommended the Royal Canine vet diet HP wet tin it’s a Hypoallergenic formula, your dog shouldn’t react & itch to any of the ingredients but Patch got acid reflux from the fish oil & his poos were soft but he always does softer poos when he eats wet tin foods, that’s why I feed 5 small meals a day 2 meals are cooked meal or a wet tin food & the other 3 meals are a kibble & his poos stay firm…
“Canidae” makes a really good small easy to digest grain free kibble, that’s low in fat 10.80%max called Canidae,Pure Meadow Senior grain free page 3 & Canidae Life Stages Platinum less active has grains page 4, https://www.canidae.com/dog-food/products….
It can take anywhere from 1 day up to 6 weeks for a dog to react to an ingredient & start scratching get yeasty smell paws. ears, skin gas & sloppy poos….Patch only reacts 15-20mins after he eats chicken he starts itching & scratching, gets red paws but with some ingredients in a kibble he takes about 5-14 days to start reacting with smelly yeasty skin paws & ears, carrots cause itchy smell ears.
Look for proteins like Rabbit, Venison, Pork, Duck & kangaroo in wet grain free tin foods, kangaroo is a lean novel protein & your dog probably hasn’t eaten much of the Kangaroo before. Can your girl eat a kibble even if you only feed 1 of her meals kibble then the rest of her meals wet tin food.

[Donald P]

This has been a great discussion, I’m considering cooking for my dog and give a variety of foods based on my research. There is a strong and growing case for vegan diets for a variety of reasons as discussed in this forum.

There is so much controversy regarding food for humans and animals, Gary Taubes book Good Calories, Bad Calories is an important book for humans to read, regarding the madness of the meat, dairy, butter are bad, as the real culprits sugar and simple carbs were put front and center. For my family controlled carbs, heavy veg, select fruits and light meat consumption is the answer with high quality supplements to fill in some of the blanks.

I will feed my Propsa Shih Tzu the same basic template. mostly poultry, occasional beef. There are some solid sources of veg protein as well as other beneficial foods. That being said, I found this study to be interesting on the omnivore dilemma with canines:
http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2013/01/diet-shaped-dog-domestication

[Susan]

Hi
I don’t understand the problem why cause Chewy has been sold & PetSmart has bought Chewy out why is this a bad thing?? if Chewy’s customer service stays the same & is still good & they have foods that move quickly & are stored properly who cares??

I like pet stores that move their pet foods quickly, I live Australia & feed American kibbles only cause the American brands seems to works the best with my boys IBD, I’d prefer to feed Australian made pet foods with fresh Australian & New Zealand ingredients but the Australian kibbles do not add the probiotics & they add fish & salmon oils, for some reason Patch doesn’t do well with his IBD, so Patch eats American made…
I as soon as Patches delivery comes which is going to be this morning, Patch opens the box gets out his treats or toy I have bought for him & I read the use by date on the bag of kibble, a good use by date should be around 18 months, this means it has just come off the ship & hasn’t had any time to sit in a hot warehouse somewhere it’s fresher then a kibble sitting in a pet warehouse that only has a 6 month use by date, go with a pet food company that moves their foods the quickest, if you know of a local pet shop in your area that has your dog food look at the use by dates & how quick the food is moving & support a small local business first as all small business are being taken over by big companies.. Is Pet Smart a big company??..

[Susan]

Hi ac,
can he handle the high protein at 36% min, if poos are sloppy then maybe reduce the fat % again, email Horizon ask for the max fat%, there’s also “Wellness Core” puppy & Wellness Core Small Breed for when he’s older, both Wellness formula’s have a bit less fat at 18% min normally it’s an extra 1-2 % extra for fat & protein, it depends on the brand, you’ll have to email Wellness to get the max fat %, Wellness also has their Wellness Complete grain free small breed formula’s the fat & protein is under 30% for dogs that can’t handle higher fat & protein,
Wellpet make Wellness, Holistic Select & Eagle Pack, Holistic Select has a small breed formula but I think it has healthy grains, it’s good to rotate kibbles, Wellness are pretty good they email back & answer all questions, another thing if you feed wet tin or raw food the fat % is higher then it says on the tin or raw packet, it needs to be converted to dry matter (Kibble), so when you see say 5%min fat on a wet tin or raw packet is around 20-26%max fat after being converted to dry matter, a lot of people don’t know this until their dog ends up with Pancreatitis or diarrhea…. I always feed wet tin foods that are around 2-4% fat…
What small breed do you have??
Here’s the Wellness link https://www.wellnesspetfood.com/natural-dog-food
Wellness have toppers, their TruFood freeze dried raw you add water, I think the fat has already been converted to dry matter fat%, you’d have to ask Wellness, it’s best to rotate between a few different brands with different proteins so your dog gets use to eating everything, rotating also strengthens their immune system….

[Susan]

Hi Heather,
it’s best to email the pet food companies & the Vet diet companies when you need any information about their formula’s they will ring or email you back with crude fiber % soluble fiber % insoluble fiber % & dietary fiber % in their formula’s, a good pet food company like TOTW their a Vet Nutritionists will ring or email you back but I didn’t read anywhere that your dog needs more soluble fiber in his diet, it will depend on your dog like your vet has told you, it’s trial & error, if it was my dog, I’d be trying the wet tin vet diet first, all vet diets are money back guaranteed & you just bring back any un opened tins or the rest of the kibble back if poo’s don’t firm up within 2-5 days & the vet changes over to another vet diet till you find one that works, you don’t have to pay to see the vet again the vet nurse normally goes in & speaks with the vet then the vet either comes out to speak with you or the vet nurse recommends another vet diet for you to try… try the Hills Canine I/d Chicken & Vegetable Stew wet tin food first & use the Hills I/d Digestive Care kibble as treats only give 1/4 a cup kibble thru the day & see how his poos go next 2 days if they are OK then increase the I/D kibble.. that’s how I started with new kibbles with my boy years ago when I rescued him.
My boy did the best on the Hills D/D Venison & Potatoes vet diet, it has 1 single intact meat protein with limited ingredients, improves digestion & stool quality, it’s soy protein free, gluten & grain free, the protein % is low-18% the Hills I/d Digestive Care replaces nutrients your dog has lost & has B vitamins & electrolytes your dog needs at the moment…. my boy gets bad overgrowth bacteria in the gut & small bowel, vomiting, nausea & pain… I tried the Hills I/d Digestive care kibble, he seem to be doing really well the first 5-6 days, it did what it says on the front of the kibble bag “it will firm stools within 3 days” BUT after 6 days my boy started to react to the poor ingredients & started doing yellow sloppy poo’s, all the fermentable grains made his bad bacteria breed & take over his stomach & bowel again, I took the Hills I/d bag of kibble back & got a refund, I bought a bag of the “Taste Of the Wild” Sierra Mountain Roasted Lamb what was recommended to me on a EPI group & IBD dogs face book groups & my boy has been doing firm perfect poos now for over 1 yr, a lot of dogs with EPI, S.I.B.O, IBD, Diarrhea do really well on the TOTW formula, there’s also a wet tin in the Sierra Mountain, I don’t know if it’s the probiotics or the purified water they use but something in the TOTW formula helps dogs that have Intestinal stress, I know a lot of people don’t like Diamond & knock Diamond but every new batch of TOTW gets tested after being packed in the kibble bags & tins before it leaves the plant, my boy has never gotten diarrhea or sick while he’s been on the TOTW Sierra Mountain Roasted Lamb formula…
Please make sure the course of antibiotics your dog is taking is for 14-21 days give the antibiotics every 12 hours with a meal do not stop the course till it’s finished….

Zignature is best for dog with food intolerances/sensitivities to certain ingredients, I’ve never seen Zignature on any of the IBD or EPI groups I belong too being feed for intestinal problems, Zignature is very pea heavy, chick pea heavy these ingredients can cause bad wind & gas in the bowel… go back to your vets office & ask the vet nurse to try at wet tin & dry Vet Diet before you try the Zignature, then once your dog has been on a vet diet for 6-9 months & the bowel has healed then maybe start slowly introducing a single low protein, limited ingredient formula & make sure you give a probiotic after he has finishes the antibiotics or give probiotic 3 hours before or after giving the antibiotics or give Kefir… you need to take baby steps with dogs who have intestinal problems.

[anonymous]

Zignature is excellent! I am currently using the Whitefish kibble with water added as a base.
Check Chewy dot com or Petflow dot com. Or, go to Zignature’s website to find out where you can buy it near you.
Ps: My terrier experienced loose stools after a couple of weeks on Natural Balance (one of the high fiber ones) when I put him back on Zignature Whitefish his bowel movements returned to normal within 72 hours.
It’s definitely a quality food 🙂
Don’t be surprised if your dog does not have a bowel movement for a couple of days during his recovery, it takes a few days for the system to readjust.
Of course every dog is different……
This is not veterinary advice; consult your veterinarian.

• This reply was modified 8 years, 5 months ago by anonymous.

[Susan]

Heather
if you need fiber % it’s best to email the pet food companies & the Vet diet companies & they will email you the crude fiber %, the soluble fiber % the insoluble fiber %, the dietary fiber% & in their foods, but I have never read anywhere that your dog needs more soluble fiber in his diet, it will depend on your dog like your vet has told you, it’s trial & error, if it was my dog, I’d be trying the wet tin vet diet first, all vet diets are money back guaranteed & you just bring back any un opened tins or the rest of the kibble back if poo’s don’t firm up within 2-5 days & the vet changes over to another vet diet till you find one that works, you don’t have to pay to see the vet again the vet nurse normally goes in & speaks with the vet then the vet either comes out to speak with you or the vet nurse recommends another vet diet for you to try… try the Hills Canine I/d Chicken & Vegetable Stew wet tin food first & use the Hills I/d Digestive Care kibble as treats only give 1/4 a cup kibble thru the day & see how his poos go next 2 days if they are OK then increase the I/D kibble.. that’s how I started with new kibbles with my boy years ago when I rescued him.
My boy did the best on the Hills D/D Venison & Potatoes vet diet, it has 1 single intact meat protein with limited ingredients, improves digestion & stool quality, it’s soy protein free, gluten & grain free, the protein % is low-18% the Hills I/d Digestive Care replaces nutrients your dog has lost & has B vitamins & electrolytes your dog needs at the moment…. my boy gets bad overgrowth bacteria in the gut & small bowel, vomiting, nausea & pain… I tried the Hills I/d Digestive care kibble, he seem to be doing really well the first 5-6 days, it did what it says on the front of the kibble bag “it will firm stools within 3 days” BUT after 6 days my boy started to react to the poor ingredients & started doing yellow sloppy poo’s, all the fermentable grains made his bad bacteria breed & take over his stomach & bowel again, I took the Hills I/d bag of kibble back & got a refund, I bought a bag of the “Taste Of the Wild” Sierra Mountain Roasted Lamb what was recommended to me on a EPI group & IBD dogs face book groups & my boy has been doing firm perfect poos now for over 1 yr, a lot of dogs with EPI, S.I.B.O, IBD, Diarrhea do really well on the TOTW formula, there’s also a wet tin in the Sierra Mountain, I don’t know if it’s the probiotics or the purified water they use but something in the TOTW formula helps dogs that have Intestinal stress, I know a lot of people don’t like Diamond & knock Diamond but every new batch of TOTW gets tested after being packed in the kibble bags & tins before it leaves the plant, my boy has never gotten diarrhea or sick while he’s been on the TOTW Sierra Mountain Roasted Lamb formula…
Please make sure the course of antibiotics your dog is taking is for 14-21 days give the antibiotics every 12 hours with a meal do not stop the course till it’s finished….

Zignature is best for dog with food intolerances/sensitivities to certain ingredients, I’ve never seen Zignature on any of the IBD or EPI groups I belong too being feed for intestinal problems, Zignature is very pea heavy, chick pea heavy these ingredients can cause bad wind & gas in the bowel… go back to your vets office & ask the vet nurse to try at wet tin & dry Vet Diet before you try the Zignature, then once your dog has been on a vet diet for 6-9 months & the bowel has healed then maybe start slowly introducing a single low protein, limited ingredient formula & make sure you give a probiotic after he has finishes the antibiotics or give probiotic 3 hours before or after giving the antibiotics or give Kefir… you need to take baby steps with dogs who have intestinal problems.

[anonymous]

Bump (response from previous thread on the same subject)
“Dogs that get urinary tract infections and bladder stones tend to have a genetic predisposition, combine that with not enough water intake, not enough opportunities to urinate and you have a problem”.
“Whatever you decide to feed, add water to the kibble or canned food, even presoak and add water. Take out to urinate at least every 4 hours (every 2 hours is ideal) stagnant conditions in the bladder are conducive to bladder stone formation”.
“Always have fresh water available for the dog 24/7”.
“Supplements are crap, don’t waste your money unless your vet recommends something specific for your dog”.
Ps: You think the prescription food is expensive. Try emergency surgery for a blocked urethra.
Been there, done that.
Bump (response from a previous thread on the same subject)
Per the search engine: /forums/search/urinary+tract+infections/
Regarding cranberry: http://skeptvet.com/Blog/?s=cranberry

I’m hoping someone might find this information helpful (even if the op doesn’t) 🙂
After all, this topic comes up at least once a week.

[Susan]

Hi Courtney,
Canidae is not manufactured by Diamond, when Canidae first started years ago I think Canidae used a Diamond plant to pack their new formula’s then Diamond shut down the Texas plant & Canidae bought Diamonds old plant in Texas & fixed it all up, Canidae is a small family run business that make small batches of locally sourced ingredients, here’s Canidae’s site, https://www.canidae.com/dog-food/products
click on “Our Story” then Click on “Our Journey” watch their video how they started….
My IBD boy does real well on Canidae on their pure formula’s & their Life Stages formula’s, his coat shines, I have so many people say, Gee he looks so healthy, but I do rotate all his kibbles at the time I was just feeding Canidae Pure Wild Boar… Canidae also make “Under The Sun” UTS it’s a bit cheaper probably cause they use chickpeas….. In Australia Canidae only gets shipped here once a month & by the 3-4 week Canidae is all sold out, so many people feed Canidae over the Australian made brands to their cats & dogs…
If you go on Consumer Affairs site there is NOT one bad complaint about Canidae foods…..

It’s best to rotate between a few different 4-5 star brands that both have a different proteins, this way your dog isn’t just eating 1 brand 24/7 & if something was wrong with the brand you are feeding your dog will have health problems, when you rotate between a few different brands your dog isn’t on a certain brand long enough & won’t have any health problems if that a brand isn’t balanced properly or has any contaminates & toxins etc if the kibble isn’t balanced properly rotating helps your dog get a more of a balance diet, plus it strengthen their immune system….
When I’ve read some of the Fromm formulas there’s a lot of different ingredients & some formula’s are pea heavy, pea flour, pea protein, chickpeas, lentils…I would lookfor a few different brands & I open 2 bags & feed one for breakfast & the other for dinner or I ask Patch which one do you want to day & show him the containers & he licks the container or I have one brand kibble in one hand & the other brand kibble in my other hand & he picks the kibble he wants to eat…
Have you looked at “Zignature” a lot of people love the Kangaroo formula & Zignature have just released a Pork & Catfish formula you could email Zignature & ask do they have samples to try or ask the pet shops that sell Zignature do they have samples…

You have a few really good brands in America, if my boy didn’t have IBD, I’d be feeding raw & kibble, a lot of people in Australia feed raw kangaroo + kibble, my cat loves her raw + her kibble, Kangaroo is very healthy & the Kangaroos are breed especially for humans & pet foods & don’t has any toxins like fish do, same as turkey & chicken is the cleanest meats to eat….

[Susan]

Hi LISA P,
this post is long, it’s too hard explaining everything in just 1-2 paragraph post, start feeding a diet that has just 1 protein & limited ingredients, less ingredients are best while you work out what foods are causing the bad gas & bloating, sounds like your boy might have IBS or IBD being 7 yrs old it’s probably IBD, you need to see a vet that specializes in IBD, the only true way to diagnosed IBD is biopsies either thru Endoscope or cut him open, I will not let Patches knife happy vet cut my Patch open, 2014 vet did Endoscope thru the throat
& biopsies, if the pyloric sphincter flap from the stomach to the small bowel is open they can go thru into the small bowel & get a biopsies as well, you need the biopsies cause Patches stomach looked excellent then the biopsies results came back he has Helicobacter-Pylori & IBD but I don’t know what type of IBD the results said he need further investigation, even if I knew what type of IBD I asked my vet, would you do anything different in medications? she said no we’ll just have a name of the type of IBD he has…
Patch was getting the rumbling & grumbling bowel noises early hours of a morning when I first rescued him, we found out he has food intolerances to certain foods, this is what your boy probably has too food sensitivities, most vet diets for Intestinal stress have the foods Patch can’t eat, I have found kibbles & cooked meals that have sweet potato, egg, potato & a little bit of peas work the best for Intestinal stress, stay away from fermentable carbohydrates, ingredients that ferment in the stomach & bowel like rice, barley, oats, beet pulp, soybeans, legumes, no ingredients that are hard to digest like Chick Peas, lentils they can cause wind/gas…
The Ziwi Peak he ate was it the wet or air dry Ziwi Peak cause Ziwi Peak have changed their formula’s & have added chickpeas to the wet tin formula’s.

The vet would have prescribed your boy Metronidazole, was he better while taking the Metronidazole?? sometimes dogs are kept on a low dose of Metronidazole it stops the bad bacteria from taking over stomach bowel & has anti inflammatory properties that helps with any inflammation of the stomach & bowel, Patches vet writes out a repeat script of the Metronidazole I can take to a chemist & take out & when I noticed Patch doing smelly farts, whinging & wanting me to rub stomach & Pancreas area & or starts doing sloppy poos for 2 days straight & start him on the Metronidazole for 10-14 days straight away before he has a IBD flare & gets real bad….

Have you looked at cooking his meals or I feed kibble for some of his meals & cooked meals for the other meals, Patch eats 5 smaller meals a day this has helped heaps when his stomach & Pancreas isn’t working properly its easier to digest smaller meals then to digest 2 bigger meals….Patch was the same pain in the Pancreas stomach area blood test say Pancreas was OK even ultra scan said the pancreas looks good, so his vet said it’s his IBD & I put him back on the Metronidazole again & it seems to help him & I feed his TOTW Sierra Mountain Roasted Lamb kibble & don’t give anything else cause I know the TOTW kibble is very easy to digest…

Have a look at “Canidae” Pure Meadow Senior the fat is low at 10.8% max, I’ve emailed Canidae to find out the max fat %, the protein is 28%, it has limited ingredients, but cause it has chicken Patch gets his red paws then starts getting itchy cause he’s sensitive to chicken but he did really well when on the Canidae just wish they didn’t use the chicken & I feed “Taste Of the Wild” Sierra Mountain, Roasted Lamb kibble it just has 1 protein Lamb & has limited ingredients, sweet potatoes, egg, potato & peas & I was feeding the Hills I/d Chicken & Vegetable Stew but then I realized the new formula has beet pulp & Patch didn’t really want to eat it no more, he had his red, I was taken out the rice & carrots, he can’t eat boiled rice it irritates his bowel causing sloppy poo’s….
I have found when Patch gets a rumbling grumbling bowel I give him 1 teaspoon – 5ml of liquid Mylanta that I keep in the fridge, when the Mylanta is cold it soothes the throat & stomach & it stops the gas rumbling thru the bowel also dry toast only use white bread the toast helps relieve the grumbling bowel & Patch finally goes to sleep, but since I’ve worked out what foods he’s sensitive too he hasn’t had his rumbling bowel…
Your best to do a cooked elimination diet, add 1 new ingredient every 6 weeks & see does he react to that ingredient & get bad wind pain & bloat up, it can take 1 day to 6 weeks to react to an ingredient in a kibble or wet tin cooked food or feed a vet diet like the Hills D/D Venison & Potatoes as long as you know your boy is OK with venison & potato, the D/D has just potato & venison, it has no beet pulp, no peas, no soy protein, it’s grain free, gluten free & high in omega 3 fatty acids what’s needed for the stomach & bowel to heal, Patch does OK when he eats the D/D Venison formula, I rotate between the TOTW Lamb breakfast & the D/D Venison for lunch then TOTW for his 2 dinners, When a dog eats the same diet for years & years then sometimes they start to react to 1 or 2 ingredients this is why I always tell people to rotate between different brand kibbles with different proteins & add cooked fresh ingredients to your dogs diet…Vet diets are good to get the dog stable then you start to work out a new diet for your dog……
Is he doing real well on the Vet diet he’s eating at the moment which formula is it?? Patch hasn’t done well on any of the Hills I/d vet diets, he did Ok on the I/d Digestive Care kibble & the I’d Chicken & vegetable stew wet tin but after 1 week eating the I/d kibble his poos when sloppy & he started getting gas & bad farts then he started to itch, the Hills D/D Venison + potato is the first vet diet he’s doing OK on & it helps with his skin allergies no red paws & also helps with his IBD, it’s also lower in protein-19% the fat is 16% its does cause some acid reflux sometimes so I feed the TOTW for all the other meals for that day & only a small meal of the D/D venison for lunch he really likes it….

Here’s “Balance It” site, https://secure.balanceit.com/ there are recipes on this site & then you add the Balance it powder to balance the meals also have you tried giving a probiotic? Purina Forti Floria is suppose to be a good dog probiotic & when it was tested it had live bacteria & made it on the best 10 dogs probiotic list, I give Patch some of my Yakult probiotic drink, also only change or add 1 thing at a time in a week in his diet so if he gets pain, gas bloating diarrhea you know what caused the problem if you start a few things at once & he reacts you wont know what caused what….

Your boy is only 7 yrs old, he’ll bounce back, start to read the signs & rub his stomach & bowel area & help push out any of the wind he might have my boy is very vocal & tells me straight away when something is wrong, his vet said she has never seen a dog that can understand everything we are saying & talks back…. Hopefully in 1 yr you’ll have his diet all worked out & know what he can & can’t eat & he’ll be doing real well once you work out his diet also be careful with treats, Canidae make healthy biscuit treats limited ingredients, the Canidae Pure Meadow Senior kibble is on page 3 ….just remember when introducing any new formula’s do it very slowly over 12-15 days so he doesn’t get any gas wind pain…
https://www.canidae.com/dog-food/products

[Susan]

Hi Heather,
I found “Taste Of The Wild” Sierra Mountain Roasted Lamb to be really good for diarrhea, it just has 1 protein lamb & has limited ingredients, sweet potato, egg, peas, potato, Protein-25%, fat-15% fiber-4% a few dogs with Gi problems seem to do well on this formula & the TOTW Pacific Stream Smoked Salmon… also I’ve read a few dogs with Gi stress also do well on the “4Health” formulas sold at Tractor Supply…..Make sure whatever formula you pick it just has 1 protein with limited ingredients, there’s also “Natural Balance” Sweet Potato & Bison or “Canidae” life stages has a limited ingredient Turkey meal Large breed puppy formula, on page 4 is the large breed formula’s link below……. Canidae also make a cheaper brand called “Under the Sun” but the formula’s have chickpeas & are lower fat, lower protein & limited ingredients https://www.canidae.com/dog-food/products

[pitlove]

Hi Linda-

It sounds like there is a lot of owner error at play here.

Firstly Metronidazole is an antibiotic, so you should have kept him on it for the full round. The protocols have changed and it seems 3-5 days is standard now for antibiotics. However, when you take them off an antibiotic early the body has not had a chance to completely kill off all of the bacteria that was causing the problem, so those bacteria adapt and become resistant to that antibiotic making it less effective/ineffective next time it’s needed.

Secondly, when switching to different brands of food, you need to read the recommended feeding suggestions for that particular food and not assume you can feed the exact same amount of food as your previous food. For example, Merrick Grain Free Chicken is 460 kcal/cup and 3.50% fiber, vs Science Diet Oral Care which is 275 kcal/cup and 9.5% fiber. As Cockalier Mom said, the dramatic difference in kcals and fiber accounts for his hunger and larger and more frequent bowel movements. Essentially he was being starved on accident. So no I would not say that Science Diet is the culprit here at all, nor is it a bad food.

[Linda C]

Hi everyone, so let me give you as short a background as I can….

Hagen is an 11 1/2 year old dog who has been generally healthy until he was diagnosed with a massive brain tumor in 08/16. He had 3 grand mal seizures in a 12 hour period which led to the scan which discovered the tumor. He was only given a few weeks to live, we opted for surgery, and it was successful. He does however have resulting left side neurological deficiencies and is on medication for the rest of his life. He is generally happy and healthy all things considered and isn’t in pain or anything like that.

He has generally always eaten Merrick Grain Free dry food, with occasional mixed-in items such as cooked chicken. A couple of weeks ago he had 4-5 days of diarrhea, it would get better, then start up again… he stopped eating and literally ate *nothing* for 3 1/2 days. He actually lost 20% of his body weight in about 7 days. He wouldn’t even drink water and we had to feed him and give him water with a syringe.

The morning that we took him to the vet he actually ate a few bites of food and drank water on his own and so we felt like he was already on the road to recovery. The vet prescribed metronidazole and FortiFlora… and recommended Science Diet Oral Care DRY food and Hill’s Prescription Diet i/d digestive care WET food. She basically said they tasted really good and would entice him to start eating again, which they did… I started giving him the dry food mixed with a spoon or so of the wet food and the FortiFlora (once a day) and he started eating again the same day….

So it has now been about 10 days, the problem is, he is eating like a beast… I tried feeding him the same quantity of this new food as I fed the Merrick and he acts like he is dying from hunger and begs for more, he paces and paws and starts whining etc… also he has started pushing the other dogs away from their food and taking it, so now I’ve had to start feeding him separately. You know how if you have a dog who loves cat food and they accidently get at the cat food and they start gobbling it down like their life depended on it because they know you are going to catch them? THAT is how he is eating.

Also, his poop is a LOT more… like, he’s eating more, but I feel like he is pooping a LOT more than what he is eating, I don’t even know if thats possible. Also, its like he is pooping all day long. Where he used to go usually twice a day like clockwork, now he goes every time he goes out. Which would be fine except………

He is now eating his poop. He never did this before. He acts like its super candy. I always pick it up, but sometimes I like to let them run around in the yard while I’m cooking etc (I can watch them from the window which overlooks the yard) so sometimes I can’t get there fast enough…

I discontinued the FortiFlora several days ago, also discontinued the metronidazole several days ago… I also stopped giving him the wet food, and now he is ONLY having the Science Diet Oral Care DRY food… I did some research on it and honestly it looks like a pretty crappy dog food… I’m not comfortable feeding him that long term… Again, he never had this crazy appetite before, and he never ate his poop before…

So, what I’m wondering is, is this related to the quality of the dry food? His poop used to be small and compact and more solid, this poop is huge and moist and just a lot more volume (sorry LOL)….

I’m going to switch him back to the Merrick Grain Free and I’m HOPING this will put things back to normal again………… Any thoughts would be appreciated.

[anonymous]

I hope you find a solution and someone offers you some helpful advice, although, I don’t think a veterinary health care professional will respond.
I’m sorry that you interpret suggestions to go to the vet as “rude”.
Surely you take your pets for annual veterinary exams and diagnostic tests/lab work as recommended. I would bring up these issues at the next visit or sooner if symptoms continue.
Per this site: /disclaimer-and-disclosure/ excerpt below

“Please be advised that we not veterinarians. For this reason, this website was never meant to be used as a substitute for sound professional advice”.
“Because the health of your dog can be directly affected by what you read here, you should always consult with a licensed veterinary professional before taking any specific action”.