[Dave R]

So, my three dry options are;

Orijen – Seens great, filler free, high protein

Acana – Looks great ingredient wise, high protein; however, there’s some horrid negative reviews on kidney failure, not sure if theyre recent or due to the new kentucky plant. And they contain catfish meal, are they not bottom dwellers?

Nulo – Not many reviews, USA Made, looks great, no negative reviews

Honest Kitchen – Already Have it. I’ll probably just add this to his dry and wet foods on occasion.
________

Wet foods;

Nulo
Koha
Natures Logic – Possible raw frozen as well
________

So man to choose from it can be overwhelming.

[Tabitha F]

Hi there! I could really use some advice! My Lily is a 17 week old golden retriever puppy. She is having what we think are food allergy issues, so we were trying to eliminate chicken and grains. She is currently eating Victor Yukon River which is grain free and contains salmon and sweet potatoes. It is an all life stage good. Our dog trainer recommended it, as well as the owner of the. Atrial pet supply store locally. I was fine with it until I read that high protein and calcium can lead to joint issues for large breed dogs! I adore Lily, and I am so afraid I am going to make the wrong decision given that goldens are so prone to joint issues.

On the Victor website, the protein content is listed at 33.9% and the calcium at 1.78%. Do you guys have any suggestions? I hate to switch her food again, because we’ve already tried several, but I don’t want to damage her joints. Thank you SO much in advance!!

[Susan]

Hi Ashley,
My boy didn’t do well on the Purina Pro Plan Sensitive Digestion, read the ingredients in the Purina Pro Plan large breed puppy, I bet you there’s a ingredient or a few ingredients that’s she is very sensitive or intolerant too & can not eat, also write down the ingrediets & the protein, fat & fiber % in the Purina Pro Plan Large Breed formula, the ingredients are not the best in the American Purina Pro Plan formula’s…
Keep a diary just in case you need it later to look back on if this keeps happening…

Can you afford to buy the Hills I/d Digestive Care dry kibble formula the matching formula to the I/d wet tin your feeding at the moment? it comes in a dry kibble as well you could buy a cartoon of the I/d wet tins & a medium size bag I/d Digestive Care dry kibble, enough to last 1 month so you can start introducing the new kibble as well that you want her on?
My boy does real well on the Hills I/d Digestive Care wet & dry formula I use this or the “Taste Of The Wild” Sierra Mountain, Roasted Lamb kibble when Patch has diarrhea & his poo’s will not firm back up, both formula’s fix his stomach, bowel & get him back on track again, the Hill’s I/d Digestive care has vitamin B’s, electrolytes & antioxidents what’s needed for diarrhea, to make their Intestinal tract healthy again….
Your better off sticking with the food she is eating at the moment & doing well on, then after 2-4 weeks when she is doingreal well, then start introducing a limited ingredient large breed puppy formula with around the same protein% & fat% & fiber % as the vet diet kibble she’s been eating, but if your feeding wet tin food then your not going to really know what percentage she does best on when eating a dry kibble?? just stay around the 25 % in protein nothing over 27-28% in protein & not too many meat proteins, stick with just 1 meat protein in the new kibble, less is best..

“Canidae” has a few Large Breed Puppy formula’s with grains like the vet diet she is eating at the moment has, I would be taking back the Purina Pro Plan Large Puppy & getting a refund or exchanging with something else, then you have to slowley introduce the new kibble over 10 day period, I start with under 1/4 of a cup new kibble added to under 1 cup old kibble feed this for 2 days & use old kibble for treats for training the first 4 days, do not buy any other brand treats that have different ingredients cause the more different foods you feed then if she has diarrhea again you will not know which food has caused the diarrhea…. then you feed 1/3 of a cup new kibble added to her old kibble, you take away 1/3 of the old kibble to make 1 cup, feed for the next 2 days, if poo start to go sloppy then you go back to 1/4 a cup or what ever she was eating & doing firm poo’s on…
Here’s “Canidae” life stages, large breed puppy, Turkey meal & Brown Rice puppy formula
https://www.canidae.com/dog-food/products/canidae-all-life-stages-large-breed-turkey- meal-brown-rice
Another good kibble to start with is “California Nutural” Chicken & Rice or Lamb & Rice Puppy both these formula’s only has 4 ingredients…. the Californiia Natural puppy would have been good to feed when the diarrhea first started…. http://www.californianaturalpets.com/brands/california-natural

[MIRJANA V]

hi Susan!
Thank you so much for the reply! I am in NYC. Yes she had a script for Metr but I took her off it as soon as she got better I’m really not into pumping her up full of chemicals and teh vet said as soon as he stools clear up take her off it. She has been on ziwi for 4 years now so am confused as to why all of a sudden it would be a problem. I love their ingredients (air dried) and love that it’s grain free no fillers and crap like some others on the Market that’s why I’m so hesitant to keep her on Royal Canin just reading the ingredient list makes me so upset it’s full of unhealthy unnecessary fillers and on top of that she started itching like crazy another reason I switched her to a premium food like Ziwi to begin with. So although her stomach and stools are better nw she has other symptoms of almost food-like allergy is best I can describe with the itching. I just want her to be healthy and especially since she’s older now. She get’s so much exercise I have a dog walking service here in NYC and she can still crush 15 miles a day with me no problem so very active still I just want to make sure what I’m putting in her body is doing her good and not harm and I don’t think Royal Canin is that product that I can trust.

[MIRJANA V]

Hi Lisa!,
I’m so glad to have seen your post and all these others above. I have a 10 year old adopted yorkie-poo who in the last year or so started having bouts of loose stools every few months. Last month was the worst it’s ever been so much blood and vomiting we had to rush her to the ER where they admitted her overnight on fluids and antibiotics. They diagnosed her with HGE after all her blood work came back normal we had to do 10 days of antibiotics which confused me as to what exactly we were treating since HGE from what I read didn’t seem like it was a bacterial or parasitic infection . It happened again exactly 30 days later this time minus the vomiting and blood jut loose stool. We took her to our regular vet which was on vacation and had a fill in there for her. I brought everything that my Tilly girl eats which has strictly been Ziwipeak air dried since 2013. She suggested that we switch her food do Royal Canin lowfat GI or Hills Science Diet low fat GI. Both foods to me don’t sit well to me because of their ingredients but her stomach is doing better. I’m starting to wonder if this is all happening now because Ziwipeak recently changed their recipes I believe they stated they only omitted items streamlining the ingredients but I am no really sure. Or is this a case of Tilly just getting older an in fact this food being too high in fat/protein for her? I am inclined to reach out to Ziwi to speak to someone and research this a little more. I have been really happy with their product and she was doing so well on it for so many years I find it hard to switch her to crappy ingredients but if it will help whatever is happening I guess I have to I am hoping to find another brand that has better ingredients than RC or HSD. If anyone has any suggestions or insight to this please share!

[Susan]

Hi
this does my head in, I live in Australia & we are NOT having this problem with TOTW in Australia, TOTW have 5 manufacturing facilities that make TOTW, 1 plant is in Central California, 1 is in Northen California, Missouri, South Carolina & Arkansas…
People have to start posting the area they live, the TOTW formula they are feeding & the use by expiry date on the back of kibble bag????? not just “Don’t feed TOTW”
this way we can work out which facility these TOTW bags are coming from that are making dogs sick?:?? the TOTW that comes to Australia & goes to all of the countries in Europe comes from their South Carolina facility, we are not having any problems in Australia so there’s 1 facility that isnt having any problems with TOTW formula’s they are making, so probably people in America getting their TOTW from the South Carolina facility their dogs are OK….
after looking into this & emailing TOTW before any TOTW formula’s leave their facilities each batch gets tested & the test results of that batch gets put into their computer so the can look back if anything happens, I really think it could be a storage problem, it’s hot Summer in America & the last pet shop from California that made a big fuss about TOTW being bad ended up being contained to their customers buying from their pet store….

All these post on Face Book scares people especially when you have a sick dog, I have a Staffy with IBD + Skin Allergies + Food Sensitivities, he has a very sensitive stomach & he does his best with his skin & bowel when he’s eating TOTW Sierra Mountian Roasted Lamb formula, I do rotate between different brand kibbles but not as much as I did a few years ago when I was looking for a kibble that wasn’t a vet diet that helped with Patches skin as well as his IBD & finally I found a kibble he does real good on & doesn’t get his stomach pain & diarrhea was TOTW, he does OK on Canidae as well but Canidae uses chickpeas in their lower fat grain free pure formula’s, so he gets the Canidae Pure Wild only a few days a week so he doesnt get his stomach pain, it has chickpeas & is higher in Kcals then his TOTW formula is…..

I’ve read thru some of the complaints on Consumer Affairs site & some people are just idiots, 1 lady’s dog got Pancreatitis while eating the TOTW High Prairie formula, probably cause the protein & fat was too high for her dog, so her vet put her dog on a low fat vet diet then after 2 weeks this lady put her poor dog back onto TOTW High Prairie formula & then she complaining, TOTW is killing her poor dog cause it had another Pancreatitis attack, what an idiot donatate the rest of teh kibble to someone or a rescue group, some post the people had a sick dog with health problems, nothing to do with what the dog was eating, if you look Consumer Affairs 10 best dog foods, TOTW cames 13th & Canidae came 1st…. another thing that can make a dog react & very SICK is flea products…..

You should always rotate between a few different brands that have different proteins…… when a dog eats the same food 24/7 year after year they can react to an ingredient in the food after eating it for years…. Hills & Purina write this on their Hydrolyse vet diet section…

[Yx]

Hello pitluv – While it it true that we cannot tell the quality of the meats used by simply reading an ingredient label, we do know that there are companies that never use generic by-products, animal digests, meat and bone meals, artificial coloring, artificial flavoring, ingredients sourced from China, menadione sodium bisulfite complex, toxic preservatives such as BHA, BHT, TBHQ and Ethoxyquin,, and those that do.
For example, these are the ingredients in Purina’s Alpo brand Prime Cuts Savory Beef Flavor – Ground Yellow Corn, Meat and Bone Meal, Soybean Meal, Beef Tallow Preserved with Mixed-Tocopherols, Corn Gluten Meal, Egg and Chicken Flavor, Poultry and Pork Digest, Salt, Potassium Chloride, Choline Chloride, Red 40, Zinc Sulfate, Ferrous Sulfate, Vitamin E Supplement, L-Lysine Monohydrochloride, Yellow 5, Manganese Sulfate, Blue 2, Niacin, Vitamin A Supplement, Copper Sulfate, Calcium Pantothenate, Thiamine Mononitrate (Vitamin B-1), Garlic Oil, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride (Vitamin B-6), Vitamin B-12 Supplement, Riboflavin Supplement (Vitamin B-2), Vitamin D-3 Supplement, Calcium Iodate, Menadione Sodium Bisulfite Complex (Source of Vitamin K Activity), Folic Acid, Biotin, Sodium Selenite. I-5020.

It would stand to reason that a company that avoids the above low-quality ingredients would likely be using higher quality meats in their formulations, in fact, there are brands such as ORIJEN that use “human grade ingredients” – “The fresh meats, meat meals and fat ingredients we use are produced exclusively from animals that have been deemed as fit for human consumption, and are produced in category 3 facilities (human grade facilities, no flushing, and no 4-D animal parts permitted on premises). All fruits and vegetables used in ORIJEN foods are also passed as fit for human consumption.” -https://www.orijen.ca/faq/#fresh_regional_ingredients

In any case, I am glad to read that all your animals are doing well.

[Carter K]

I have been feeding Orijen to my Golden Retriever since he was a puppy. I never had a single complaint with the Canadian food. It consistently came vacuum sealed, and opening the bag you could see that the food was moist and rich in nutrients.

The new formula from Kentucky is so lousy I can’t stand it. I had several bags that the color was extremely light colored, the pieces were very thin or small, and there was an abundance of food particles all over the bag. I was getting ready to switch, when I bought another bag. FINALLY, I got a bag where the kibble was larger, darker in color, and appeared to be the same type of quality as the Canadian plant. I thought that perhaps they had corrected whatever issues they may have been having at the Kentucky plant, but I have not been able to find another bag of this quality since.

Orijen sent me a long-winded response about using “fresh ingredients” and how this causes variation in the food; however, this was never an issue with the Canadian formula. At this point, I don’t know what to feed him as I had previously been so thrilled with Six Fish as it has kept him lean, his muscles strong, and his coat beautiful. If there was SOME way for me to still buy the Canadian food I absolutely would! 🙁

[Susan]

Hi Dewper,
if you live America then there’s a cream similiar to the Sudocrem sold at supermarket but I can’t remember the name, a lady posted it on the “Dog, issues, allergies and other information support” f/b group, it has the same ingredients, (I think) as the Sudocrem has.
I live Australia & the Sudocrem is sold supermarkets & chemist in the baby section with the coconut oil & aloe & cucumber baby wipes are, I’ve read people who live America buy Sudocrem from Amazon or read ingredient list & look for a baby cream sold at supermarket with similiar ingredients…..
When your boy wasnt licking his paws real bad was he eating the same food he’s eating now or a different food? it’s so hard to work out allergies cause dogs normally will have both food & envrionment alergies, I was thinking is he may be a compulsive licker?? my Patch was when I first rescued him, paw licking sets off their endorphins, especially when they lick & lick themselves to sleep…my Patch all of a sudden dissappears & I find him in my room or the spare room licking his paw, then there’s the big wet patch on the bed aaaaaarrrrhhhhh it’s always just one of his paws he’s licking not both paws, he has white paws, I have a quick look at his paw & paw will be red up & sometimes in between his toes, so if he’s due for his weekly bath in a couple of days I bath him earlier & I bath him in the Malaseb shampoo also sold on Amazon & you leave the shampoo on his paws 5-10 mins if you can, the Malaseb is excellent for Allergies, itchy skin & yeasty skin….after his bath his paws look heaps better & aren’t itchy no more, so something in the Malaseb reduces the reddness & itch, then that night I apply the Hydrocortisone cream in between the tows & everywhere that’s red by morning all reddness is all gone, when I get a bit lazy I dont keep up with his daily routine applying creams his red paws happens….
It’s Winter in Australia & this is the worst Winter Patch has had so far, he normally does real well thru the colder Winter months as long as I’m not feeding him any ingredients he’s sensitive too, but this Winter has been heaps warmer & plants are flowering so I’d say the pollen count is higher…. another thing check what the Omega 3 % is in the kibble your feeding him some kibbles arent balanced properly & are higher in Omega 6 & real low in Omega 3, the omega 3% should be around 1/2 of what the omega 6% is…..as soon as you open your bag of kibble all the oils start to go rancid from the air/oxygen, so your omega 3% becomes less, they say a kibble only last about 2 weeks once you’ve opened it google ” How long does a kibble stay fresh once it’s opened”
The best thing to do is add a few small sardines to his diet a day, start buying the tin Sardines in spring water or olive oil, Aldi’s sell cheap good sardines & salmon in spring water, just add a few sardines or spoons of the salmon to 1 of his meals or give as a treat, I make salmon cakes just boil some potato or sweet potatoes & cool then mix with the drained tin of salmon or start giving him a fish capsule if he has sensitive stomach/bowel then get the Krill Oil capsules they’re suppose to be better for senstive stomach, my boy can’t have fish/salmon oil it gives him acid reflux, he does better when he eats foods high in Omega 3, almonds are excellent I give about 3 Almonds some days but make sure he chews them or they will come back out whole, I don’t know but a lady said her dog got into the bag of almonds & it wasnt nice, I bite 1/2 an almond & give the other 1/2 of the almond to patch & say chew, even have a look at the K-9 Natural Green Lipped Mussels freeze dried treats Chewy sell them & other brands as well, I give my cat & Patch a couple mussels a day as treats… You just need to keep in a daily routine, 1 lady from f/b group I mentioned above said she has a water tray near the front door & her dog walks thru it to wash off any allergens on his paws but I’d rather put him in a empty bath, wet his paws & wash & leave soaking in the Malaseb shampoo this works really well then rinse & dry. another thing in the beginning after I applied cream if you know he’s going to lay down to sleep & lick, then I put on a baby socks or a cut up elastic bandage with the bandage tape around the top, this stops the paw licking & gets him out of the compulsive licking.. this is what I had to do with Patch in the beginning..
When your boy is licking his paw do you look at the paw to see if it’s red, swollon etc ?

[Susan]

Hi dewper,
have you tried giving baths twice a week in “Malaseb” medicated shampoo?? baths wash off any allergens that are on the paws, skin & fur, when I first rescued my boy he was a paw licker, now he’s been diagnosed with IBD, Environment allergies & food sensitivities/intolerances, he was put on a high omega 3 skin vet diet but it didn’t help with his red itchy paws or sloppy poo’s, it helped his skin, so I did a food elimination diet & worked out what foods he was sensitive too that were causing his red itchy paws, itchy ears where he’d shake his head, bum surfing on the carpet, & itchy skin… but when they have both environment allergies & food sensitivities it’s very hard to work out what’s causing what…so its best to do food elimination diet in the winter the colder months when all the pollens flowers etc aren’t out..
Have you joined face book group called “Dog, issues, allergies and other information support” group a Dermatologist is in the group, Dr Karen Helton Rhodes DMV, DACVD she has a F/B group called “Canine Skin Solutions”
I use Hydrocortisone 1% cream on his paws & in between toes at night then during the day before our walk I use “Sudocrem” on his paws & white sections of fur & pink skin the Sudocrem is for nappy rash, eczema & dermatitis & acts as a barrier & protects the skin it’s excellent if your dog has grass allergies, itchy bum & skin, when my boy walks on wet grass he gets his red paws also, chicken, barley, oats, corn & wheat causes itchy skin & itchy paws within 20 mins of eating these foods, carrots make his ears itch & the head tilting & shaking start… start keeping a diary..
It’s best to give baths, use creams & socks to stop the paw licking & have you looked into a raw diet?? all Patches skin problems disappeared within 1 week when he started a raw diet high in omega 3 & probiotic to strengthen his immune system also high potency vitamin C is excellent..
If I see Patch licking his paws I say NO lick & I stop him licking his paws & go & get the Sudocrem & apply if it’s in the day & before bed I apply the Hydrocortisone 1% cream you’ll get into a routine & work out what works best for your boy….baths in Malaseb shampoo twice a week will stop & relieve any itchy skin & paws. also when he looks bored & starts to lick paws give him something natural & healthy to chew on, a healthy raw meaty bone will stop any paw licking, chicken & turkey bone is the softest bone to chew & digest… read all ingredients to any treats you buy..
can I ask 1 question after he licks & licks his paws does he burp, do you hear him burp??

[Susan]

Hi ac,
first I find a kibble that I hoped agreed with Patch, I slowly introduce & see how Patch does on the kibble for 1-2 months, but this wasn’t always the way 4 yrs ago I had to keep Patch on a vet diet for 9-12 months to fix his bowel & strengthen his immune system but the vet diet made his skin itch & smell yeasty cause he was sensitive to the chicken, corn, wheat & corn gluten meal….
Food sensitivities/intolerances can take anywhere from 1 day to react up to 6 weeks & react with sloppy poo’s, gas/wind pain, (bad smelly farts) yeasty itchy ears, paws & skin, rubbing bum on carpet, grass or ground, with Patch I know within 1-2 days if he’s sensitive to an ingredient…..
Now I can rotate daily or a couple days a week, some days I’ll give Patch his Taste Of The Wild, Sierra Mountain Roasted lamb for the bigger meals breakfast & dinner then for lunch I give a smaller wet cooked meal, I give him a different kibble or a wet tin food or his cooked rissoles mashed up with sweet potato for his smaller meals 12pm & 8pm…

With your pup just feed him 1 kibble that agrees with him & he does the best on for 6-9 months while he’s growing, don’t try any new kibbles yet unless he starts doing sloppy poo’s, then later on you keep this kibble as his main kibble & his go to kibble if he starts doing sloppy poos/diarrhea, only give new foods as a treat to start with.
Patch does real well on his TOTW Roasted Lamb, so he gets his TOTW feed as main meals at 7am & 5pm then for the smaller meals lunch-12pm & second dinner-8pm he gets 1/3 cup of another kibble that I know agrees with him or wet tin or cooked meal or I change it around & feed his TOTW for the smaller meals it all depends how he’s doing that day if he’s well or has his pancreas/stomach pain then he just eats his TOTW kibble….
After 4-5 yrs I have a pretty good idea what agrees with Patch, I introduced the new Hills D/D Venison & Potato vet diet 3 months ago, we just got the Hills D/D Venison in Australia, it’s the only vet diet that agrees with Patch & he doesn’t itch & get yeasty smelly paws & skin & helps his IBD, it’s high in omega 3, helps with digestion & stool quality when they start doing bigger poo’s helps with his skin, it’s gluten & grain free & I know 100% that the only intact meat protein is venison from new Zealand.. so if he has a IBD flare I now have a vet diet that I can fall back onto but he gets a bit of acid reflux some times I think cause the fat is 16.3% & the higher omega 3 oils, so the TOTW is still his go to kibble that helps his IBD, I just wanted another kibble as well just in case something ever happens, I now have 2 kibbles, I also have his Canidae Pure Wild boar but it’s higher in Kcals per cup over 400 Kcals per cup & Patch seems to get his pancreas or stomach pain when a kibble is over 370 Kcals per cup & if the protein is over 28%, so I only feed the Canidae Pure Wild now for one of his smaller meals some days, his smaller meals lunch & 2nd dinner…..Patch eats 4 meals a day..
I cook fresh pumkin & sweet potato for Patch & freeze 20-30 gram size pieces & I take 1 piece pumkin or sweet potato out & 1 x 1/2 cup size pork rissole & leave in fridge the night before to thaw over night & feed as a small meal, if your pup does well on boiled pumkin then I’d cook some chicken breast cut into small pieces or buy some lean turkey mince make into small 1/2 cup size rissoles balls just add 1 whisked egg, mix & then bake rissoles in oven, cool then freeze & take out when needed & take out some pumkin or sweet potato pieces & make a small snack meal, this is how I started introducing foods to Patch after we found out he has IBD, I’d still feed the kibble that agreed with Patch for breakfast & dinner & the small meal was the new food meal, I was trying to see what agreed with him without upsetting his stomach/bowel, take little baby steps, also try giving new foods as a treat, make sure it’s the same food for the month if he seems to do well then you’ll know he can eat that food, keep a diary….. if your pup does well on pumkin then look for kibbles with sweet potato & potato..
What kibble is he doing well on? read the fat% protein% & fiber% & Kcals per cup & what are the ingredients…try & work out why is he doing really good on this kibble??

[MATT C]

I’m guilty of over-researching some things. Going to a raw food diet is one of them apparently… To start out is there any reason I can’t get a supply of good quality chicken thighs, freeze them, and thaw out a couple to give my pup each day?

Is it really this simple?!?!

We have a 2-year-old small dog (Cavalier King Charles Spaniel + Poodle mix) who has been on so many types of hypoallergenic dog food that I’ve lost count of all of what we’ve tried. He’s about 17 pounds now and has been eating Hills Science Diet z/d which is all that he has been able to tolerate so far. He still goes through periods of loose stool and what we call “flare-ups” when he’s clearly not himself. We’ve gone through the allergy testing but even the “safe” proteins have given him problems. This is why I want to go raw…

This is what I think I will do. Any comments, thoughts or suggestions would be appreciated!

1) Pick a weekend when I will be home to start this (my wife is not exactly on board with this idea…)

2) Fast Jasper on Friday (he normally eats 2x per day)

3) Not do a transition period, but start him with 1/4 pound of raw chicken 2x per day. His feeding times have been between 7-8am and then again between 5-6pm.

4) Assuming he eats this I will be prepared to get up at nights for the aftermath. From the reading I’ve done I would expect this to last a week or two as he adjusts.

5) After 1 to 2 months I can start adding in other sources of protein.

Again, any comments or suggestions would be great! Oh, here’s Jasper:

https://www.instagram.com/p/BWiaZkWFWj7/?taken-by=mbcoulter

[anonymous]

Example:
(from a previous thread on the same subject)
Also there are prescription meds for stubborn cases, talk to your vet.
Was an ultrasound done? Dogs can have more than one type of stone, such as calcium oxalate and struvite…that was the case with my dog that had reoccurring UTIs.
This is not veterinary advice; consult your veterinarian.

[Elise S]

That’s one of the problems every breeding has their own opinion of what is the “Best feeding program” only based on thier experience. Some people swear by a for but when you really start to read about it’s not something I wasn’t my dog on.There doesn’t seam to be one general train of thought. Are hip/elbows getting better or worse, if better because of diet what are people feeding.

Because of this unusually giant breed with the average life spam of 7-9 yrs. Weve seen huge improvements in the overall health of the breed. With correct health testing, breeding, exercise and yes diet, we’re starting to see these guys life long healthy lives 11-13 yrs.

When I breed a bitch I monitor and control everything about her food from the day she goes into season. Giant breed puppy foods can be just as hard because of to much protein. Some breedersput puppies on senior foods for lower protein, but I don’t believe the puppies are not getting calories and calcium.

[Elise S]

I show, and breed English mastiffs. There are Hugh different opinions on what to feed!
This is a low energy, exstreamly fast growing, big boned breed.
We are talking about a puppy going from 1-2 lbs. at birth to 25-30 lbs. in 8 weeks, over 150 lbs. by 1 year. Adult average weight for a male is 210-250 lbs. I even have a 20 month old male that’s already 275lbs. He is exception to the rule. Correct exercise is very important even for these guys that grow so fast, low energy, and can get over heated fast.
For more that 8 yrs. I’ve driven myself nuts reading dog food labels. Most dog foods I find are for energetic dogs about 100lbs. Maybe up to 150lbs.
I’m not ready to go raw, it seems you can just as easy give them the wrong ratio of nutrients.
I have 8 mastiffs so cost is some what of an issue but I put there health first. Small pieces of kibble can be a problem with choking even for slow eaters.
I’ve heard there are some ingredients that are considered “hot” foods. “?”
You can have a 200lbs muscular football player or a 200lbs couch potato. Developing muscle without putting to much pressure on fast growing joints is a trick.
With all this in mind slow growth low protein is a must.
Low energy is easy to get over weight.

Dose anyone have any suggestions?

[Susan]

Hi Lindsay,
make sure you read the fat % on a wet tin foods, the fat in raw & wet tin foods hasn’t been converted to dry matter fat(kibble) here’s a calculator conversion link to help you work out the fat% protein & fiber %, higher fat can cause pancreatitis, weight gain etc. roughly 5%min-fat in a wet tin food is around 20%min-25%max fat % when converted to dry matter, so stick with wet tin foods 5% & under for fat…. http://www.k-9kraving.com/resources/calculator.php

I like smaller size kibbles, have a look at “Canidae” pure formula’s, they are grain free have limited ingredients & have single meat proteins, look at the Pure Wild, Pure Land formula’s, they both only have 7 ingredients & smell really good, no bad fishy smell… Canidae kibbles are easy to digest & soften within 20mins when soaked in warm water…
I would soak about 1/2 cup kibble in warm water for 15-20mins before your going to feed him, but make sure the kibble is soft all the way thru, so 20mins soaking should be long enough if it’s a Canidae kibble, Canidae kibbles are high in Kcals per cup, a 50lb-75lb dog that is exercise only need’s 2-3 cups a day, not much exercise 1-1 1/2 cups a day, the Canidae Pure Wild Boar is 454Kcals per cup, the Pure Land is 474Kcals per cup….

My dog doesn’t really like fish either but loves Bison, lamb, kangaroo & pork, he can’t eat Chicken or fish, change meat protein to 1 novel protein, Lamb, Bison, Pork, Kangaroo see how he goes.. Pure Land is on page 2, Pure Wild is on page 3 scroll down read ingredients & see kibble size, you need a small size kibble so when the kibble swells it isn’t real big don’t over soak & leave kibble soaking in the water for too long, no over night soaking the kibble it will swell & become too big & fill with water 20mins just softens the kibble & make sure it’s not hard in the middle, just squeeze a few kibbles to make sure they’re all soft all the way thru, so he doesn’t catch on to what you’re doing these dogs are very smart, lol
I just remember what I did with my boy when his IBD was real bad, I soaked the kibbles till soft then I fully drained out all of the water they were soaking in, I cuffed my hand in the bowl & pushed hand against kibble in bowl & squeezed out the water in the soft kibbles, then I put the soft kibbles thru a blender & this broke the soft kibbles all up, then you can mix thru the wet tin food, does he like treats?? when you first get the bag of kibble put about 1 cup kibble in a air tight container & give a few kibbles to him as treats so he gets to likes them…

Sometimes when food has cause pain or some type of health problem, the dog becomes fussy cause the food has caused some discomfort, gas, wind pain, diarrhea, acid reflux, vomiting etc so now he see’s kibble as bad……or he’s a very smart dog & knows how kibble is made, LOL
https://www.canidae.com/dog-food/products

[Susan]

Hi teagsmom,
why not feed wet tin food or cooked soft meals, even if its just 1 meal wet food then the other meal a kibble….. kibble is very hard to chew, the only kibble I know is small & very easy to digest & goes soft all the way thru when water is added is the “Canidae” Pure Meadow Senior but it’s Chicken, Chicken Meal Turkey Meal, Sweet potatoes…here’s Canidae’s site look at all their formula’s, there’s also their Pure Wild Boar, Pure Land, Pure Sea, Pure Sky all have no chicken, all Canidaes kibbles are very small & very easy to digest… https.www.canidae.com/dog-food/products
if you do feed a wet tin food, read the fat % & stay under 5%-fat, wet & raw pet foods aren’t converted to dry matter fat & protein, so 5%min fat is around 20%-25% max – fat if it were a kibble…

[Maria S]

It has been a lot of years since I have had to worry about Chylothorax. My GSD was diagnosed at the very young age of 1 year, she is now nearly 9. She never showed any sign that she was sick, then for 2 days she only nibbled at her food and on the third day she was breathing heavier than normal. I took her to our normal vet, they took x-rays and saw fluid so they tapped her chest, 3-4 Liters and kept her chest kept filling up within minutes. They told us they were not equip to handle the situation and our only chance was to take her to the specialist right then and there or euthanize. So my husband and I rushed our girl to the ER.

Once there, they did more diagnostics to try to figure out what was causing the Chylothorax so they knew how to go about trying to treat it. After about $2500 in diagnostics, it came back idiopathic, no medical reason for it. We ended up having to leave her at the ER overnight and finally by the next day she was doing a little better. She stopped building up fluid and she was allowed to go home. The doctors told us to start a low fat diet, Rutin, and minimize the exercise. I do not remember dosing of the Rutin, I believe we started out at 1500mg 3x/day (86lb at that time). I don’t know the science behind the dosing either, I just did what I was told.

Doing this treatment, Daisy did well for about 3 months before we had to take her in again to get her chest tapped. The doctors increased the Rutin to 3000mg 3x/day, I was going through I think 3-4 bottles a week. It must have helped some though because Daisy did well until November, about 11 months after being diagnosed. She was tapped the first week of November, then the third week, then 5 days later, then 3, then 2, then needed done again the next day. Each time was harder to get fluid out because of the fibrin that was building up after each tap. They told me I had to do surgery or euthanize.

We made an appointment with the surgeon for a consultation. We were hesitant because of everything we had been told and read it didn’t look good. The surgeon, however, told us that he had a 79% success chance (that may not sound good to most people but with the 35% odds that we were reading about this sounded great) so we set up the surgery for the next day. We were quoted $2500-$4000 depending on recovery. Daisy did very well with the surgery (thoracic duct ligation and pericardectomy), ended up having to stay 1 extra day because of mild fluid buildup still. I got to take her home the day before her 2nd birthday.

Daisy stayed on Rutin for I’d say 6 months or maybe more and still to this day stays on a low fat diet. I get yearly chest x-rays to make sure fluid is not building up again and so far it has not. She plays pretty normal for the most part, she will play until her tongue starts to turn blue so I do have to watch her.

My point to this lengthy response is this: The surgery may be pricey, and yes it is not a 100% guarantee it will cure Chylothorax, but there are still better odds of it helping rather than not doing a surgery at all. I feel a drain would be best if the surgery does not work (obviously curing the condition would be better than just treating) or if it is your only option because of money issues. On that note though, I wish I had found this forum when I was dealing with this. It would have been nice to know that there was another treatment if they surgery did not work, no doctor ever mentioned this to me.

I wish the best of luck to everyone that is battling Chylothorax and if I can help in any way, please feel free to reach out to me.

[A]

Sweet potatoes, potatoes, peas, etc convert to sugar and sugar feeds yeast. Brown rice is a complex carb and converts slower.
Grains aren’t always the problem, everyone at my work feeds a grain food and we all have a variety of dogs from little pups to mastiffs,pits, labs, and retrievers. We have more customers on a grain food that have left the grain free world due to the extreme high fat and carb protein sources.

This is out of one of Dr Beckers articles :

Yeast needs sugar as a source of energy. Carbohydrates break down into sugar. Both MDs and veterinarians advise patients with yeast to get the sugars out of their diets.

Dietary sugar isn’t just the white kind added to many pet treats and some pet foods. There are ‘secret,’ hidden forms of sugar that can also feed yeast overgrowth, for instance, honey. Although honey can be beneficial for pets in some cases, it does provide a food source for yeast. So if your dog is yeasty, you’ll need to carefully read his pet food and treat labels and avoid any product containing honey, high fructose corn syrup, and even white potatoes and sweet potatoes.

[Susan]

Hi Ginger,
Sorry its a long post but it’s hard to explain everything in 1-2 paragraphs hopefully some of this information will help your girls itchy skin…
Your girl sounds like my boy who will be 9 yrs old in November, he suffers with IBD, Pancreatitis, environment skin allergies & food sensitivities causing itchy smelly skin,paws, ears, gas & diarrhea, we thought he had diabetes a few months ago cause he was drinking & drinking water but blood test were all fine thank-god, I couldn’t handle another health problem, I feel so sorry for sick animals. 🙁
I wouldn’t try the Cytopoint injections with your dog yet, has your vet explained how Cytopoint works? My vet looked into the Cytopoint injections, she explained once you’ve given the injection it stays in the dogs system up to 6-8 weeks, so if it makes them ill there’s nothing that can be done to reverse any side effects cause Patch reacts to certain medications & it’s a newer drug we don’t have any real research results yet, after a couple of years vets will know more how dogs react that have certain health problems like our dogs have, when the dog is younger & heathier yes I think CADI is the best thing for itchy dogs better the Apoquel, now Apoquel has been out over a few years vets see all the side effects so in a few years when vets have used Cytopoint, they’ll know & can report any bad side effects if there are any?…

My vet said Apopuel doesn’t help when a dog has itchy skin from secondary Malassezia (Yeast) Dermatitis, Apoquel cannot resolve inflammation or treat yeast, she said Apoquel
has helped a few of her dog patients that have IBD but I was to scared to try Apoquel with Patch cause one of the side effects with Apoquel is nausea & vomiting, my vet did have a few dogs that become very sick while taking the Apoquel, so I changed his diet, bathed him weekly to wash off any allergens on his paws & body to relieve his itchy skin paws & I use creams. As they get older the allergies get worse..

They are finding Cytopoint works better then Apoquel for environment allergies & itchy skin, CADI blocks the receptors completely, where Apoquel blocks the reaction from the allergens receptors, there’s a good face book group to join “Dog issues, allergies and other information support group” with really good information about CADI & Apoquel.. a lady called Petra that runs the group can explain things better…

I would be changing her diet first, when my Patch was eating the Hills I/d wet & dry formula’s & other foods that had the ingredients he was sensitive too he got his red paws, smelly yeasty itchy skin & that’s only cause he’s a sensitive to the chicken, oats, barley tapioca, corn gluten meal in the I/d vet diet & other foods he was eating, once I remove these allergens he is OK thru the cooler Winter months then when Summer comes he gets his environment allergies so I bath more, I use hydrocortisone 1% cream to relieve the itch & feed treats that are high in omega 3 fatty acid like K-9 Natural freeze dried Green Lipped Mussels, ask your vet can your try the Royal Canine HP wet tin food the fat is 2.5% you’ll have to email or ring Royal Canine & ask them what is the max fat % when converted to dry mater?? it’s probably around 7-8% fat when converted to dry matter (Kibble fat), Hills have already converted all their wet tin foods on their internet site, I wish other pet food companies did the same cause people don’t no this & read 5%-fat on a wet tin foods or raw foods & think the fat % is low when 5% fat is around 20% fat when converted to dry matter, the Australian R/C HP is 3.5% in the wet tin food, when converted it was 13% fat, it has the omega 3 oils & everything needed for skin problems, or I’d say look at the R/C selected proteins formula’s PR-Rabbit & Potato or PD-Duck & Potato or PV-Venison & Potato but the R/C in the wet tin wet tin foods the fat is too high for Pancreatitis 4-5% when converted to dry matter is around 15-20% fat but the dry R/C select proteins kibbles are lower in fat at 10%max but your feed wet tin..

Have you joined the “Canine Pancreatitis Support ” Face Book group,
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1435920120029740/
join & look in their “Files” there’s 2 links “Low Fat Food” click on the first link & scroll down, all the low fat wet tin foods come up, on your right there’s the converted fat %, it’s been converted to dry matter fat % also read the ingredients in the Hills Wet tin food she is eating at the moment, try & avoid those some of those ingredients if you can, she is probably sensitive to a few ingredients in the I/d wet tin formula’s, that’s why I recommended the Royal Canine vet diet HP wet tin it’s a Hypoallergenic formula, your dog shouldn’t react & itch to any of the ingredients but Patch got acid reflux from the fish oil & his poos were soft but he always does softer poos when he eats wet tin foods, that’s why I feed 5 small meals a day 2 meals are cooked meal or a wet tin food & the other 3 meals are a kibble & his poos stay firm…
“Canidae” makes a really good small easy to digest grain free kibble, that’s low in fat 10.80%max called Canidae,Pure Meadow Senior grain free page 3 & Canidae Life Stages Platinum less active has grains page 4, https://www.canidae.com/dog-food/products….
It can take anywhere from 1 day up to 6 weeks for a dog to react to an ingredient & start scratching get yeasty smell paws. ears, skin gas & sloppy poos….Patch only reacts 15-20mins after he eats chicken he starts itching & scratching, gets red paws but with some ingredients in a kibble he takes about 5-14 days to start reacting with smelly yeasty skin paws & ears, carrots cause itchy smell ears.
Look for proteins like Rabbit, Venison, Pork, Duck & kangaroo in wet grain free tin foods, kangaroo is a lean novel protein & your dog probably hasn’t eaten much of the Kangaroo before. Can your girl eat a kibble even if you only feed 1 of her meals kibble then the rest of her meals wet tin food.

[Donald P]

This has been a great discussion, I’m considering cooking for my dog and give a variety of foods based on my research. There is a strong and growing case for vegan diets for a variety of reasons as discussed in this forum.

There is so much controversy regarding food for humans and animals, Gary Taubes book Good Calories, Bad Calories is an important book for humans to read, regarding the madness of the meat, dairy, butter are bad, as the real culprits sugar and simple carbs were put front and center. For my family controlled carbs, heavy veg, select fruits and light meat consumption is the answer with high quality supplements to fill in some of the blanks.

I will feed my Propsa Shih Tzu the same basic template. mostly poultry, occasional beef. There are some solid sources of veg protein as well as other beneficial foods. That being said, I found this study to be interesting on the omnivore dilemma with canines:
http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2013/01/diet-shaped-dog-domestication

[Susan]

Hi
I don’t understand the problem why cause Chewy has been sold & PetSmart has bought Chewy out why is this a bad thing?? if Chewy’s customer service stays the same & is still good & they have foods that move quickly & are stored properly who cares??

I like pet stores that move their pet foods quickly, I live Australia & feed American kibbles only cause the American brands seems to works the best with my boys IBD, I’d prefer to feed Australian made pet foods with fresh Australian & New Zealand ingredients but the Australian kibbles do not add the probiotics & they add fish & salmon oils, for some reason Patch doesn’t do well with his IBD, so Patch eats American made…
I as soon as Patches delivery comes which is going to be this morning, Patch opens the box gets out his treats or toy I have bought for him & I read the use by date on the bag of kibble, a good use by date should be around 18 months, this means it has just come off the ship & hasn’t had any time to sit in a hot warehouse somewhere it’s fresher then a kibble sitting in a pet warehouse that only has a 6 month use by date, go with a pet food company that moves their foods the quickest, if you know of a local pet shop in your area that has your dog food look at the use by dates & how quick the food is moving & support a small local business first as all small business are being taken over by big companies.. Is Pet Smart a big company??..

[Susan]

Hi ac,
can he handle the high protein at 36% min, if poos are sloppy then maybe reduce the fat % again, email Horizon ask for the max fat%, there’s also “Wellness Core” puppy & Wellness Core Small Breed for when he’s older, both Wellness formula’s have a bit less fat at 18% min normally it’s an extra 1-2 % extra for fat & protein, it depends on the brand, you’ll have to email Wellness to get the max fat %, Wellness also has their Wellness Complete grain free small breed formula’s the fat & protein is under 30% for dogs that can’t handle higher fat & protein,
Wellpet make Wellness, Holistic Select & Eagle Pack, Holistic Select has a small breed formula but I think it has healthy grains, it’s good to rotate kibbles, Wellness are pretty good they email back & answer all questions, another thing if you feed wet tin or raw food the fat % is higher then it says on the tin or raw packet, it needs to be converted to dry matter (Kibble), so when you see say 5%min fat on a wet tin or raw packet is around 20-26%max fat after being converted to dry matter, a lot of people don’t know this until their dog ends up with Pancreatitis or diarrhea…. I always feed wet tin foods that are around 2-4% fat…
What small breed do you have??
Here’s the Wellness link https://www.wellnesspetfood.com/natural-dog-food
Wellness have toppers, their TruFood freeze dried raw you add water, I think the fat has already been converted to dry matter fat%, you’d have to ask Wellness, it’s best to rotate between a few different brands with different proteins so your dog gets use to eating everything, rotating also strengthens their immune system….

[Susan]

Hi Heather,
it’s best to email the pet food companies & the Vet diet companies when you need any information about their formula’s they will ring or email you back with crude fiber % soluble fiber % insoluble fiber % & dietary fiber % in their formula’s, a good pet food company like TOTW their a Vet Nutritionists will ring or email you back but I didn’t read anywhere that your dog needs more soluble fiber in his diet, it will depend on your dog like your vet has told you, it’s trial & error, if it was my dog, I’d be trying the wet tin vet diet first, all vet diets are money back guaranteed & you just bring back any un opened tins or the rest of the kibble back if poo’s don’t firm up within 2-5 days & the vet changes over to another vet diet till you find one that works, you don’t have to pay to see the vet again the vet nurse normally goes in & speaks with the vet then the vet either comes out to speak with you or the vet nurse recommends another vet diet for you to try… try the Hills Canine I/d Chicken & Vegetable Stew wet tin food first & use the Hills I/d Digestive Care kibble as treats only give 1/4 a cup kibble thru the day & see how his poos go next 2 days if they are OK then increase the I/D kibble.. that’s how I started with new kibbles with my boy years ago when I rescued him.
My boy did the best on the Hills D/D Venison & Potatoes vet diet, it has 1 single intact meat protein with limited ingredients, improves digestion & stool quality, it’s soy protein free, gluten & grain free, the protein % is low-18% the Hills I/d Digestive Care replaces nutrients your dog has lost & has B vitamins & electrolytes your dog needs at the moment…. my boy gets bad overgrowth bacteria in the gut & small bowel, vomiting, nausea & pain… I tried the Hills I/d Digestive care kibble, he seem to be doing really well the first 5-6 days, it did what it says on the front of the kibble bag “it will firm stools within 3 days” BUT after 6 days my boy started to react to the poor ingredients & started doing yellow sloppy poo’s, all the fermentable grains made his bad bacteria breed & take over his stomach & bowel again, I took the Hills I/d bag of kibble back & got a refund, I bought a bag of the “Taste Of the Wild” Sierra Mountain Roasted Lamb what was recommended to me on a EPI group & IBD dogs face book groups & my boy has been doing firm perfect poos now for over 1 yr, a lot of dogs with EPI, S.I.B.O, IBD, Diarrhea do really well on the TOTW formula, there’s also a wet tin in the Sierra Mountain, I don’t know if it’s the probiotics or the purified water they use but something in the TOTW formula helps dogs that have Intestinal stress, I know a lot of people don’t like Diamond & knock Diamond but every new batch of TOTW gets tested after being packed in the kibble bags & tins before it leaves the plant, my boy has never gotten diarrhea or sick while he’s been on the TOTW Sierra Mountain Roasted Lamb formula…
Please make sure the course of antibiotics your dog is taking is for 14-21 days give the antibiotics every 12 hours with a meal do not stop the course till it’s finished….

Zignature is best for dog with food intolerances/sensitivities to certain ingredients, I’ve never seen Zignature on any of the IBD or EPI groups I belong too being feed for intestinal problems, Zignature is very pea heavy, chick pea heavy these ingredients can cause bad wind & gas in the bowel… go back to your vets office & ask the vet nurse to try at wet tin & dry Vet Diet before you try the Zignature, then once your dog has been on a vet diet for 6-9 months & the bowel has healed then maybe start slowly introducing a single low protein, limited ingredient formula & make sure you give a probiotic after he has finishes the antibiotics or give probiotic 3 hours before or after giving the antibiotics or give Kefir… you need to take baby steps with dogs who have intestinal problems.

[anonymous]

Zignature is excellent! I am currently using the Whitefish kibble with water added as a base.
Check Chewy dot com or Petflow dot com. Or, go to Zignature’s website to find out where you can buy it near you.
Ps: My terrier experienced loose stools after a couple of weeks on Natural Balance (one of the high fiber ones) when I put him back on Zignature Whitefish his bowel movements returned to normal within 72 hours.
It’s definitely a quality food 🙂
Don’t be surprised if your dog does not have a bowel movement for a couple of days during his recovery, it takes a few days for the system to readjust.
Of course every dog is different……
This is not veterinary advice; consult your veterinarian.

• This reply was modified 8 years, 8 months ago by anonymous.

[Susan]

Heather
if you need fiber % it’s best to email the pet food companies & the Vet diet companies & they will email you the crude fiber %, the soluble fiber % the insoluble fiber %, the dietary fiber% & in their foods, but I have never read anywhere that your dog needs more soluble fiber in his diet, it will depend on your dog like your vet has told you, it’s trial & error, if it was my dog, I’d be trying the wet tin vet diet first, all vet diets are money back guaranteed & you just bring back any un opened tins or the rest of the kibble back if poo’s don’t firm up within 2-5 days & the vet changes over to another vet diet till you find one that works, you don’t have to pay to see the vet again the vet nurse normally goes in & speaks with the vet then the vet either comes out to speak with you or the vet nurse recommends another vet diet for you to try… try the Hills Canine I/d Chicken & Vegetable Stew wet tin food first & use the Hills I/d Digestive Care kibble as treats only give 1/4 a cup kibble thru the day & see how his poos go next 2 days if they are OK then increase the I/D kibble.. that’s how I started with new kibbles with my boy years ago when I rescued him.
My boy did the best on the Hills D/D Venison & Potatoes vet diet, it has 1 single intact meat protein with limited ingredients, improves digestion & stool quality, it’s soy protein free, gluten & grain free, the protein % is low-18% the Hills I/d Digestive Care replaces nutrients your dog has lost & has B vitamins & electrolytes your dog needs at the moment…. my boy gets bad overgrowth bacteria in the gut & small bowel, vomiting, nausea & pain… I tried the Hills I/d Digestive care kibble, he seem to be doing really well the first 5-6 days, it did what it says on the front of the kibble bag “it will firm stools within 3 days” BUT after 6 days my boy started to react to the poor ingredients & started doing yellow sloppy poo’s, all the fermentable grains made his bad bacteria breed & take over his stomach & bowel again, I took the Hills I/d bag of kibble back & got a refund, I bought a bag of the “Taste Of the Wild” Sierra Mountain Roasted Lamb what was recommended to me on a EPI group & IBD dogs face book groups & my boy has been doing firm perfect poos now for over 1 yr, a lot of dogs with EPI, S.I.B.O, IBD, Diarrhea do really well on the TOTW formula, there’s also a wet tin in the Sierra Mountain, I don’t know if it’s the probiotics or the purified water they use but something in the TOTW formula helps dogs that have Intestinal stress, I know a lot of people don’t like Diamond & knock Diamond but every new batch of TOTW gets tested after being packed in the kibble bags & tins before it leaves the plant, my boy has never gotten diarrhea or sick while he’s been on the TOTW Sierra Mountain Roasted Lamb formula…
Please make sure the course of antibiotics your dog is taking is for 14-21 days give the antibiotics every 12 hours with a meal do not stop the course till it’s finished….

Zignature is best for dog with food intolerances/sensitivities to certain ingredients, I’ve never seen Zignature on any of the IBD or EPI groups I belong too being feed for intestinal problems, Zignature is very pea heavy, chick pea heavy these ingredients can cause bad wind & gas in the bowel… go back to your vets office & ask the vet nurse to try at wet tin & dry Vet Diet before you try the Zignature, then once your dog has been on a vet diet for 6-9 months & the bowel has healed then maybe start slowly introducing a single low protein, limited ingredient formula & make sure you give a probiotic after he has finishes the antibiotics or give probiotic 3 hours before or after giving the antibiotics or give Kefir… you need to take baby steps with dogs who have intestinal problems.

[anonymous]

Bump (response from previous thread on the same subject)
“Dogs that get urinary tract infections and bladder stones tend to have a genetic predisposition, combine that with not enough water intake, not enough opportunities to urinate and you have a problem”.
“Whatever you decide to feed, add water to the kibble or canned food, even presoak and add water. Take out to urinate at least every 4 hours (every 2 hours is ideal) stagnant conditions in the bladder are conducive to bladder stone formation”.
“Always have fresh water available for the dog 24/7”.
“Supplements are crap, don’t waste your money unless your vet recommends something specific for your dog”.
Ps: You think the prescription food is expensive. Try emergency surgery for a blocked urethra.
Been there, done that.
Bump (response from a previous thread on the same subject)
Per the search engine: /forums/search/urinary+tract+infections/
Regarding cranberry: http://skeptvet.com/Blog/?s=cranberry

I’m hoping someone might find this information helpful (even if the op doesn’t) 🙂
After all, this topic comes up at least once a week.

[Susan]

Hi Courtney,
Canidae is not manufactured by Diamond, when Canidae first started years ago I think Canidae used a Diamond plant to pack their new formula’s then Diamond shut down the Texas plant & Canidae bought Diamonds old plant in Texas & fixed it all up, Canidae is a small family run business that make small batches of locally sourced ingredients, here’s Canidae’s site, https://www.canidae.com/dog-food/products
click on “Our Story” then Click on “Our Journey” watch their video how they started….
My IBD boy does real well on Canidae on their pure formula’s & their Life Stages formula’s, his coat shines, I have so many people say, Gee he looks so healthy, but I do rotate all his kibbles at the time I was just feeding Canidae Pure Wild Boar… Canidae also make “Under The Sun” UTS it’s a bit cheaper probably cause they use chickpeas….. In Australia Canidae only gets shipped here once a month & by the 3-4 week Canidae is all sold out, so many people feed Canidae over the Australian made brands to their cats & dogs…
If you go on Consumer Affairs site there is NOT one bad complaint about Canidae foods…..

It’s best to rotate between a few different 4-5 star brands that both have a different proteins, this way your dog isn’t just eating 1 brand 24/7 & if something was wrong with the brand you are feeding your dog will have health problems, when you rotate between a few different brands your dog isn’t on a certain brand long enough & won’t have any health problems if that a brand isn’t balanced properly or has any contaminates & toxins etc if the kibble isn’t balanced properly rotating helps your dog get a more of a balance diet, plus it strengthen their immune system….
When I’ve read some of the Fromm formulas there’s a lot of different ingredients & some formula’s are pea heavy, pea flour, pea protein, chickpeas, lentils…I would lookfor a few different brands & I open 2 bags & feed one for breakfast & the other for dinner or I ask Patch which one do you want to day & show him the containers & he licks the container or I have one brand kibble in one hand & the other brand kibble in my other hand & he picks the kibble he wants to eat…
Have you looked at “Zignature” a lot of people love the Kangaroo formula & Zignature have just released a Pork & Catfish formula you could email Zignature & ask do they have samples to try or ask the pet shops that sell Zignature do they have samples…

You have a few really good brands in America, if my boy didn’t have IBD, I’d be feeding raw & kibble, a lot of people in Australia feed raw kangaroo + kibble, my cat loves her raw + her kibble, Kangaroo is very healthy & the Kangaroos are breed especially for humans & pet foods & don’t has any toxins like fish do, same as turkey & chicken is the cleanest meats to eat….

[Susan]

Hi LISA P,
this post is long, it’s too hard explaining everything in just 1-2 paragraph post, start feeding a diet that has just 1 protein & limited ingredients, less ingredients are best while you work out what foods are causing the bad gas & bloating, sounds like your boy might have IBS or IBD being 7 yrs old it’s probably IBD, you need to see a vet that specializes in IBD, the only true way to diagnosed IBD is biopsies either thru Endoscope or cut him open, I will not let Patches knife happy vet cut my Patch open, 2014 vet did Endoscope thru the throat
& biopsies, if the pyloric sphincter flap from the stomach to the small bowel is open they can go thru into the small bowel & get a biopsies as well, you need the biopsies cause Patches stomach looked excellent then the biopsies results came back he has Helicobacter-Pylori & IBD but I don’t know what type of IBD the results said he need further investigation, even if I knew what type of IBD I asked my vet, would you do anything different in medications? she said no we’ll just have a name of the type of IBD he has…
Patch was getting the rumbling & grumbling bowel noises early hours of a morning when I first rescued him, we found out he has food intolerances to certain foods, this is what your boy probably has too food sensitivities, most vet diets for Intestinal stress have the foods Patch can’t eat, I have found kibbles & cooked meals that have sweet potato, egg, potato & a little bit of peas work the best for Intestinal stress, stay away from fermentable carbohydrates, ingredients that ferment in the stomach & bowel like rice, barley, oats, beet pulp, soybeans, legumes, no ingredients that are hard to digest like Chick Peas, lentils they can cause wind/gas…
The Ziwi Peak he ate was it the wet or air dry Ziwi Peak cause Ziwi Peak have changed their formula’s & have added chickpeas to the wet tin formula’s.

The vet would have prescribed your boy Metronidazole, was he better while taking the Metronidazole?? sometimes dogs are kept on a low dose of Metronidazole it stops the bad bacteria from taking over stomach bowel & has anti inflammatory properties that helps with any inflammation of the stomach & bowel, Patches vet writes out a repeat script of the Metronidazole I can take to a chemist & take out & when I noticed Patch doing smelly farts, whinging & wanting me to rub stomach & Pancreas area & or starts doing sloppy poos for 2 days straight & start him on the Metronidazole for 10-14 days straight away before he has a IBD flare & gets real bad….

Have you looked at cooking his meals or I feed kibble for some of his meals & cooked meals for the other meals, Patch eats 5 smaller meals a day this has helped heaps when his stomach & Pancreas isn’t working properly its easier to digest smaller meals then to digest 2 bigger meals….Patch was the same pain in the Pancreas stomach area blood test say Pancreas was OK even ultra scan said the pancreas looks good, so his vet said it’s his IBD & I put him back on the Metronidazole again & it seems to help him & I feed his TOTW Sierra Mountain Roasted Lamb kibble & don’t give anything else cause I know the TOTW kibble is very easy to digest…

Have a look at “Canidae” Pure Meadow Senior the fat is low at 10.8% max, I’ve emailed Canidae to find out the max fat %, the protein is 28%, it has limited ingredients, but cause it has chicken Patch gets his red paws then starts getting itchy cause he’s sensitive to chicken but he did really well when on the Canidae just wish they didn’t use the chicken & I feed “Taste Of the Wild” Sierra Mountain, Roasted Lamb kibble it just has 1 protein Lamb & has limited ingredients, sweet potatoes, egg, potato & peas & I was feeding the Hills I/d Chicken & Vegetable Stew but then I realized the new formula has beet pulp & Patch didn’t really want to eat it no more, he had his red, I was taken out the rice & carrots, he can’t eat boiled rice it irritates his bowel causing sloppy poo’s….
I have found when Patch gets a rumbling grumbling bowel I give him 1 teaspoon – 5ml of liquid Mylanta that I keep in the fridge, when the Mylanta is cold it soothes the throat & stomach & it stops the gas rumbling thru the bowel also dry toast only use white bread the toast helps relieve the grumbling bowel & Patch finally goes to sleep, but since I’ve worked out what foods he’s sensitive too he hasn’t had his rumbling bowel…
Your best to do a cooked elimination diet, add 1 new ingredient every 6 weeks & see does he react to that ingredient & get bad wind pain & bloat up, it can take 1 day to 6 weeks to react to an ingredient in a kibble or wet tin cooked food or feed a vet diet like the Hills D/D Venison & Potatoes as long as you know your boy is OK with venison & potato, the D/D has just potato & venison, it has no beet pulp, no peas, no soy protein, it’s grain free, gluten free & high in omega 3 fatty acids what’s needed for the stomach & bowel to heal, Patch does OK when he eats the D/D Venison formula, I rotate between the TOTW Lamb breakfast & the D/D Venison for lunch then TOTW for his 2 dinners, When a dog eats the same diet for years & years then sometimes they start to react to 1 or 2 ingredients this is why I always tell people to rotate between different brand kibbles with different proteins & add cooked fresh ingredients to your dogs diet…Vet diets are good to get the dog stable then you start to work out a new diet for your dog……
Is he doing real well on the Vet diet he’s eating at the moment which formula is it?? Patch hasn’t done well on any of the Hills I/d vet diets, he did Ok on the I/d Digestive Care kibble & the I’d Chicken & vegetable stew wet tin but after 1 week eating the I/d kibble his poos when sloppy & he started getting gas & bad farts then he started to itch, the Hills D/D Venison + potato is the first vet diet he’s doing OK on & it helps with his skin allergies no red paws & also helps with his IBD, it’s also lower in protein-19% the fat is 16% its does cause some acid reflux sometimes so I feed the TOTW for all the other meals for that day & only a small meal of the D/D venison for lunch he really likes it….

Here’s “Balance It” site, https://secure.balanceit.com/ there are recipes on this site & then you add the Balance it powder to balance the meals also have you tried giving a probiotic? Purina Forti Floria is suppose to be a good dog probiotic & when it was tested it had live bacteria & made it on the best 10 dogs probiotic list, I give Patch some of my Yakult probiotic drink, also only change or add 1 thing at a time in a week in his diet so if he gets pain, gas bloating diarrhea you know what caused the problem if you start a few things at once & he reacts you wont know what caused what….

Your boy is only 7 yrs old, he’ll bounce back, start to read the signs & rub his stomach & bowel area & help push out any of the wind he might have my boy is very vocal & tells me straight away when something is wrong, his vet said she has never seen a dog that can understand everything we are saying & talks back…. Hopefully in 1 yr you’ll have his diet all worked out & know what he can & can’t eat & he’ll be doing real well once you work out his diet also be careful with treats, Canidae make healthy biscuit treats limited ingredients, the Canidae Pure Meadow Senior kibble is on page 3 ….just remember when introducing any new formula’s do it very slowly over 12-15 days so he doesn’t get any gas wind pain…
https://www.canidae.com/dog-food/products

[Susan]

Hi Heather,
I found “Taste Of The Wild” Sierra Mountain Roasted Lamb to be really good for diarrhea, it just has 1 protein lamb & has limited ingredients, sweet potato, egg, peas, potato, Protein-25%, fat-15% fiber-4% a few dogs with Gi problems seem to do well on this formula & the TOTW Pacific Stream Smoked Salmon… also I’ve read a few dogs with Gi stress also do well on the “4Health” formulas sold at Tractor Supply…..Make sure whatever formula you pick it just has 1 protein with limited ingredients, there’s also “Natural Balance” Sweet Potato & Bison or “Canidae” life stages has a limited ingredient Turkey meal Large breed puppy formula, on page 4 is the large breed formula’s link below……. Canidae also make a cheaper brand called “Under the Sun” but the formula’s have chickpeas & are lower fat, lower protein & limited ingredients https://www.canidae.com/dog-food/products

[pitlove]

Hi Linda-

It sounds like there is a lot of owner error at play here.

Firstly Metronidazole is an antibiotic, so you should have kept him on it for the full round. The protocols have changed and it seems 3-5 days is standard now for antibiotics. However, when you take them off an antibiotic early the body has not had a chance to completely kill off all of the bacteria that was causing the problem, so those bacteria adapt and become resistant to that antibiotic making it less effective/ineffective next time it’s needed.

Secondly, when switching to different brands of food, you need to read the recommended feeding suggestions for that particular food and not assume you can feed the exact same amount of food as your previous food. For example, Merrick Grain Free Chicken is 460 kcal/cup and 3.50% fiber, vs Science Diet Oral Care which is 275 kcal/cup and 9.5% fiber. As Cockalier Mom said, the dramatic difference in kcals and fiber accounts for his hunger and larger and more frequent bowel movements. Essentially he was being starved on accident. So no I would not say that Science Diet is the culprit here at all, nor is it a bad food.

[Linda C]

Hi everyone, so let me give you as short a background as I can….

Hagen is an 11 1/2 year old dog who has been generally healthy until he was diagnosed with a massive brain tumor in 08/16. He had 3 grand mal seizures in a 12 hour period which led to the scan which discovered the tumor. He was only given a few weeks to live, we opted for surgery, and it was successful. He does however have resulting left side neurological deficiencies and is on medication for the rest of his life. He is generally happy and healthy all things considered and isn’t in pain or anything like that.

He has generally always eaten Merrick Grain Free dry food, with occasional mixed-in items such as cooked chicken. A couple of weeks ago he had 4-5 days of diarrhea, it would get better, then start up again… he stopped eating and literally ate *nothing* for 3 1/2 days. He actually lost 20% of his body weight in about 7 days. He wouldn’t even drink water and we had to feed him and give him water with a syringe.

The morning that we took him to the vet he actually ate a few bites of food and drank water on his own and so we felt like he was already on the road to recovery. The vet prescribed metronidazole and FortiFlora… and recommended Science Diet Oral Care DRY food and Hill’s Prescription Diet i/d digestive care WET food. She basically said they tasted really good and would entice him to start eating again, which they did… I started giving him the dry food mixed with a spoon or so of the wet food and the FortiFlora (once a day) and he started eating again the same day….

So it has now been about 10 days, the problem is, he is eating like a beast… I tried feeding him the same quantity of this new food as I fed the Merrick and he acts like he is dying from hunger and begs for more, he paces and paws and starts whining etc… also he has started pushing the other dogs away from their food and taking it, so now I’ve had to start feeding him separately. You know how if you have a dog who loves cat food and they accidently get at the cat food and they start gobbling it down like their life depended on it because they know you are going to catch them? THAT is how he is eating.

Also, his poop is a LOT more… like, he’s eating more, but I feel like he is pooping a LOT more than what he is eating, I don’t even know if thats possible. Also, its like he is pooping all day long. Where he used to go usually twice a day like clockwork, now he goes every time he goes out. Which would be fine except………

He is now eating his poop. He never did this before. He acts like its super candy. I always pick it up, but sometimes I like to let them run around in the yard while I’m cooking etc (I can watch them from the window which overlooks the yard) so sometimes I can’t get there fast enough…

I discontinued the FortiFlora several days ago, also discontinued the metronidazole several days ago… I also stopped giving him the wet food, and now he is ONLY having the Science Diet Oral Care DRY food… I did some research on it and honestly it looks like a pretty crappy dog food… I’m not comfortable feeding him that long term… Again, he never had this crazy appetite before, and he never ate his poop before…

So, what I’m wondering is, is this related to the quality of the dry food? His poop used to be small and compact and more solid, this poop is huge and moist and just a lot more volume (sorry LOL)….

I’m going to switch him back to the Merrick Grain Free and I’m HOPING this will put things back to normal again………… Any thoughts would be appreciated.

[anonymous]

I hope you find a solution and someone offers you some helpful advice, although, I don’t think a veterinary health care professional will respond.
I’m sorry that you interpret suggestions to go to the vet as “rude”.
Surely you take your pets for annual veterinary exams and diagnostic tests/lab work as recommended. I would bring up these issues at the next visit or sooner if symptoms continue.
Per this site: /disclaimer-and-disclosure/ excerpt below

“Please be advised that we not veterinarians. For this reason, this website was never meant to be used as a substitute for sound professional advice”.
“Because the health of your dog can be directly affected by what you read here, you should always consult with a licensed veterinary professional before taking any specific action”.

[aimee]

Hi Kelsey,

Pitlove is right Petfooled is laden with misinformation it’s too bad really.. anyway here are just a few comments I made about it on the review section

” Here is an excerpt from the trailer and the film as an example of misinformation. In reference to corn wheat and soy “those are the things that cause overweight, diabetes, arthritis,chronic skin allergies, infections..”

The problem is, is that there is just as much evidence to say that beef, lamb, and chicken are the things that cause overweightedness, allergies, diabetes, and infections as there is to say corn, wheat and soy cause those things. In other words there is no basis to be making either statement. It is all “fake news”

“What was presented was very biased. For example in regards to rendering there were pics of body piles and dead stock and road kill but no real discussion that the material used in pet food is usually always from a USDA integrated facility leading the viewer to think that road kill and dead bloated cattle is the primary source for pet food ingredients.

Major blunders in facts ( they couldn’t even get the anatomy labeling correct ) and appeal to nature fallacy.

Dr. Becker incorrectly reported that the scientific name of the dog was
changed from canis lupus familiaris to just canis lupus because dogs
are essentially wolves vs them being a recognized subspecies.

She reported the change was because the only differences between wolves and dogs is “outer packaging”

Shesh!!
Fact check people, just don’t lift garbage off of raw feeding sites
and repeat it! What she said was pretty much verbatim from here https://www.balanced-canine…

What really happened was that the dog was canis familiaris and was
changed to canis lupus familiaris. Similar renaming occurred with other
domestic animals: separate species names were abandoned in favor of
classifying under the same species and assigning a subspecies name.

No mention of the Nature journal paper that reported on the genetic
adaptation of dogs vs wolves in regards to carbohydrate metabolism.Hmm
wonder why….

Implications that major pet food companies won’t disclose where they source from because they declined to be interviewed for the film. I understand why they would decline to be interviewed and if the producers of the film were interested in looking at sourcing info
they could have just lifted it from company web pages.

Did they not want the viewer to know that human grade 1 and 2 grains and meat from USDA integrated plants is used in pet foods?

All in all a waste of time. Not worth paying for and not worth watching.”

Also, did you know that the average debt for a person graduating vet school is upwards of $167,000 with 20% owing more than 200,000? Therefore this statement, “Vets push Science Diet so hard because Science Diet puts them through school. Science Diet is somewhat like a sponsor for the vet.” is complete “fake news” Oh sure they may get a pocket protector and some free pens or a back pack . Vet Students used to get a “hard” copy of Small Animal Clinical Nutrition. Don’t know if they still get a hard copy as you can just download it off their site, (You can too for that matter and if you are interested in nutrition it is worth your time to read it.) and I think vet students can buy their Hill’s food at a reduced rate. Big deal, nothing that would even make a teeny tiny dent in the cost of their education. Student loans are what puts vets through school not Science Diet.

[Susan]

Hi Steve,
the only way to know how these animals died & how the pet food is being made is buy free range organic ethically farmed meat & veggies & make your own pet meals….
If you lived in Australia we have a new ethically farmed pet food called “Frontier Pets”, the pigs, chickens & beef all run free & are feed a healthy diet, they live a pretty good life…Here’s “Frontier Pet Food” web page https://frontierpets.com.au/pages/our-purpose
There must be a few companies like our Frontier pets but in America… send Frontier Pets a email the lady will email you back & answer all your questions, ask does she know of another pet food company like her Frontier Pets but in America or Canada, she has just started & would of done a heap of research, so she may have come across another ethically farmed pet food company in America….

There’s “Ziwi Peak” an New Zealand pet food company who make high quality pet foods your dogs will love their air dried pet food & their wet tin foods, https://www.ziwipets.com/
there’s also “K-9 Natural” another NZ made pet food you add water I buy their Green Lipped Mussels. https://www.k9natural.co.nz/
Ziwi Peak & K-9 Naturals are both sold in America.
There’s “Honest Kitchen” you can use their base formula’s & add your own organic meat or buy the HK formula’s where you just add water….
There’s “Just Food For Dogs” they make pet food for dogs with certain health problems they may make an small breed all life stages formula, send them an email.. https://www.justfoodfordogs.com/vet-support-diets

Do you realise when you read the fat% & protein% on wet raw foods it hasn’t been converted to dry matter basis (kibble) yet, here’s a calculator, save this link so you can convert & know how high the fat % is in wet tin, raw food your feeding…. 5% min-fat when converted to dry matter is around 20-25%max-fat. http://www.k-9kraving.com/resources/calculator.php

Once you have found a few pet foods introduce them & make sure you rotate between 2-3 different brands so your dogs are getting a variety of different pet foods so if one of these pet foods isn’t balanced properly or has toxins etc your dogs aren’t eating the same pet food 24/7 here’s “Clean Label Project” site, this is the first year CLP has tested pet foods for toxin’s, CLP tested the most popular pet foods for lead, arsenic, pesticides, mercury, cadmium, BPA you can see which wet pet foods made the good list & the worst list…..click on “Product Ratings” up the top..
I and Love and You, Dog for Dog, Wellness, SmallBatch Pets & Stella & Chewy got 5 stars in the wet tin foods section…the fish formula’s seem to be worse & turkey & chicken formula’s rate the best. http://www.cleanlabelproject.org/product-ratings/pet-food/

[aimee]

Hi Christie,

I hope your Mom’s dog is feeling better.

When I read this statement it struck me as interesting. “This vet said that the dog should have been put on antibiotics for two weeks instead of one week than the other vet prescribed. He also said that the other vet should have given the prescription food at the same time as the antibiotics to help dissolve the struvite crystals, while the antibiotics worked against the infection. So that was strike two.”

I’m interpreting it as as two strikes against the first vet and I found that interesting. Was the first vet incorrect in the assessment of your dog’s condition? Was the second vet incorrect? Or were both correct or neither correct? Those are the options.

It seems one concern was over duration of treatment. Is there a right answer or is it an unknown? Way back when in the late 80’s early 90’s when my dog had UTI the standard treatment duration was 3 weeks of antibiotics. Now most consider that overkill and that that type of duration only damages the gut microflora. A newer protocol for E coli calls for only 3 days of treatment. So the “standard” is changing and shifting to shorter courses is more common, sometimes only 3-5 days are being used and 1 week is considered overkill LOL So I don’t see it as a strike against vet 1 for scripting a 7 day course.

Crystals: Are they a problem and is a special diet needed? The significance of crystals depends on the type. Since you mentioned s/d I’m going to assume they were struvite crystals. Struvite crystals are common… so common that they can be considered normal in dogs and rarely in need of any treatment. Did/do they in this situation need to be addressed with a special diet? Hmm personally I’d lean to saying no… So for me I really don’t see a big issue with the food not having been given concurrent with the meds and wouldn’t call “strike two” on vet one.

[Christie]

Ok sorry for the delay in responding. My mother’s dog had her follow up appointment with the vet on Wednesday.

To answer some of the questions: yes, the vet put her on prescribed antibiotics. However, the vet she saw this time around was a different person than the one two weeks ago. This vet said that the dog should have been put on antibiotics for two weeks instead of one week than the other vet prescribed. He also said that the other vet should have given the prescription food at the same time as the antibiotics to help dissolve the struvite crystals, while the antibiotics worked against the infection. So that was strike two.

He prescribed another week’s worth of antibiotics and gave my mother a week’s worth of Hills canned S/D food.

The dog won’t touch it. My mother asked if she could mix it with some of her old food (Fromm’s Weight management dry) or with plain boiled chicken and the vet said no.

So the dog hasn’t eaten and she vomited up her meds yesterday (probably because of the empty stomach). So I did some research online and apparently Hills S/D is nasty and not well liked/tolerated by dogs. The ingredients are horrible: Water, Corn Starch, Chicken Fat, Pork Liver, Sugar, Egg Product, Powdered Cellulose, Iodized Salt… and the texture is nasty (white chunks that my mother had to add water to just to break it up some (what kind of canned food has a consistency like that?) So my research led to a few forums where people were able to get their dogs to eat Royal Canin SO formula (which is basically the same. The ingredients are slightly better: water, chicken liver, corn grits, pork by-product, chicken, chicknen by-product…).

My mother called up the vet today and asked about changing the food to Royal Canin. He said that their food is terrible. He said that he would allow her to return the unopened Hills cans and wants to try Hills C/D formula. But I’ve read plenty of reviews from people who have the same issue with their dogs not wanting to touch that one either.

I read over the urinalysis taken two weeks ago ans the dog’s pH was high at 7.5 and the protein level was high. WBC and RBC were both high, but that was due to the infection and blood in the urine. It showed 11-20 struvite crystals.

The vet thinks that since it’s the first time that this has happened (she’s two years old) that the crystals could have been attributed to diet rather than genetics. She was on Fromm’s Weight Management dry formula because she’s about 5-10 pounds overweight. Prior to that, she was eating Purina One dry.

The vet seems fixated on using Hills (which is what they sell at their office), and if the dogs eats it, fine. It can help dissolve any remaining crystals. But it doesn’t look like its a complete, well balanced food and not meant to be used for long periods of time.

My vet used to sell Hills for the longest time before changing to Royal Canin.

I don’t think either is very good quality.

Are there any diet (low protein), grain free canned foods that are tolerable? Or supplements to help lower her urine pH?

[anonymous]

In my opinion, your money would be better spent going to the vet for an evaluation and treatment options for pain management and inflammation such as prescription meds.
Has he had a senior workup? If not, that would be a good place to start.
Aqua therapy which is offered at some veterinary clinics as rehab, swimming in a pool or walking in water on a treadmill a few times a week can help a lot. https://www.vetinfo.com/aquatic-therapy-for-dogs.html

Supplements are not only most likely ineffective but they often have side effects.
Perhaps you will find some helpful information here http://skeptvet.com/Blog/?s=mercola
and http://skeptvet.com/Blog/?s=glucosamine

This is not veterinary advice; consult your veterinarian.

[Susan]

Hi Nataya,
I don’t think you’ll get many raw feeders on DFA, a lot feed kibble, there might be the odd poster that may help……are you going to make your own raw diet or buy the pre-made raw diets? homemade is the best this way you know what they are eating where the meat is coming from….
Start doing research & follow people like “Rodney Habib, Dr Karen Becker & Steve Brown, Dr Karen Becker is bringing out another new book with simple easy to make raw meals, her old books have all sold out & people on Amazon are asking ridiculous prices for her old books…. look at Steve Brown book called “Unlocking The Canine Ancestral Diet” your local library can order in books, I borrow books from the library or they order in books I’m interested in then after I have read them & like them I buy the book…
Here’s Rodney Habib’s link, once you follow Rodney you’ll get in the loop…
https://www.facebook.com/rodneyhabib

Join some raw feeding groups on face book, just make sure these diets are balanced properly, vets are normally against raw feeding only because a lot of people don’t balance the diet properly & the vets see all the health problems that can occur from a dog or a cat not eating a proper balanced raw diet, I live Australia & a lot of Australian’s feed raw & dry kibble + raw meaty bones at lease twice a week…. a lot of our Australian made kibbles advise to add raw meat, raw meaty bones with their kibbles….
I went thru an Animal Nutritionist Jacqueline Rudan the maker of Natural Animal Solutions(NAS) products, this is her Maintenance Diet I followed minus any bone or organ meats cause my Staffy Patch has IBD, food intolerances & skin allergies…
http://naturalanimalsolutions.com.au/Shop/2016/03/15/maintenance-dog-diet/
I added her Digestavite plus powder to balance the diet, Patch was very hungry when we first started feeding the raw diet I was feeding 3 smaller raw home made meals a day, Jacqueline said, he has to get use too eating a raw diet after being feed a high carb process kibble, they stay fuller longer when they eat kibble..

Your making the best decision for your dogs health, with the Great Dane pup I would see what the breeder is feeding him & make sure you find an Great Dane breeder that raw feeds her dogs & pups, this breeder will be able to help you with preparing a raw diet
for a large breed pup…. sometimes its better to feed large breed pup a good quality large breed puppy kibble + raw until they’re 1-18mths then put them onto a full raw diet once they have finished growing, you have to be careful with large breed pups that their bones don’t grow too quickly the breeder will explain things a bit better then me….

There’s a lot of raw feeders on Lew Olsons F/B group called “K-9 Nutrition”
or Monica Segal F/B group called “K-9 Kitchen”
Make sure you take before & after photos of your Pit Bulls, you’ll see a big improvement with skin coat & all over health once they’re eating a raw diet…
Good-Luck

[a c]

You are so correct. I don’t know what I can trust either. The more I read the more I am confusing and scared about pet food. Those pet food are made here in the USA!

CLP test is based on the contamination. When adding the nutritional values to that result, how many pet food will remain on the “good” list? What about pets with special needs such as low fat or low carbs? How many pet food will remain on the “good list”? I wish someone could compile the result to give a more comprehensive overview.

I have a 9 weeks old puppy( he weights 4 lbs)that I started him on Orijen puppy food 3 weeks ago. According to the CLP test, Orijen puppy food received only one star. Should I change it to something else? If so, what?

[Susan]

Hi Carla, sounds like Acid Reflux, after eating grass & some food this has pushed the acid back down into the stomach & she has settled, sometimes the poos will look green in color from the excess acid being made…. I have found giving white bread dry toast is good if they wake up thru the night, it normally happens around 3am, if this happens again have some cold liquid Mylanta in the fridge, I don’t know if you have Mylanta in America, give about 5mls, 1 teaspoon, the cold Mylanta soothes the throat & stomach & pushes the acid back down, it’s best to let the dog bring it up & vomit it get rid of it…..
It’s very hard for vets to diagnose cause there’s no real test for this unless your dogs ends up with stomach ulcer then a Endoscope & Biopsies are done, the vet gets a better idea, I found changing diets, till you find a diet that works & rotating between 2 diets works as well I have found, also if you can feed 1 cook lean meal, boiled sweet potatoes are really good with a lean meat also pumkin is good to add to a dogs meal…..

[Susan]

Hi Tammy, Sweetie is nilly the same age my boy, he’s turning 9 in November they both will be turning 63yrs old….I’m going thru something similar at the moment with my boy who has IBD, skin allergies & food intolerances…The Hills & Royal Canine vet diets for Kidney Care & dissolving crystals are too high in fat for my boy & have ingredients that Patch can’t eat, he gets yeasty smelly skin, paws & ears when he eats, chicken, corn starch, wheat, corn gluten meal, barley & carrots…
Are you feeding the wet tin c/d or the dry c/d kibble? I’ve noticed the Wet tin vet diets have better ingredients & may not have the ingredients Sweetie is sensitive too, go on face book there’s 2 groups “Canine Kidney Disease” & Canine Kidney Disease Support group” a few people are feeding “Dave’s” pet food, Restricted diet protein low Phosphorus farmland blend in sauce wet tin, Honest Kitchen Keen, some are feeding raw or cooked diets &
a few people have been recommending Dr Harvey, he’s a Nutritionist that must do special diets for dogs with a few health problems, I haven’t had time to check out his site yet, join the f/b groups & read thru the post, you’ll probably get more info from people going thru the same health problems with their dogs…a lot are feeding the Hills K/D or C/d Multicare wet tin food..
I’m still waiting on test results from sterile urine that was taken the other day, I feel so sorry for my boy, he never seems to get a break, he starts doing really well then we have another health problem…. Good-Luck working out the best diet….. https://www.facebook.com/groups/1422252261408967/

[anonymous]

Dogs that get bladder stones often have a genetic predisposition (struvite and calcium oxalate are the most common), not enough water is another contributing factor.
Has she had an x-ray/ultrasound to rule out bladder stones? Because, they can have more than one type of stones. This also. can result in recurrent urinary tract infections.
Add water to the kibble, and you can also presoak the kibble in water overnight in the fridge prior to serving.
Offer frequent bathroom breaks/opportunities to urinate, keep the bladder flushed. Stagnant conditions in the bladder are conductive to stone formation.
Don’t free feed, 2 or 3 small meals a day is better and always have fresh water available. Maybe add a little plain chicken broth (no onion) to the kibble.
A blocked urethra is a medical emergency and can result in surgery to save the dog’s life.
Did the vet talk to you about prescription meds for stubborn cases? Don’t confuse supplements with medication.
Work with your vet, prescription food and all, when the dog has been stable for 6 months to 1 year you can discuss diet changes.
Use the search engine here to see more threads on this topic and others.

Ps: You may find some helpful information here http://skeptvet.com/Blog/?s=urinary+tract+infection
Btw: I’d skip the supplements, glucosamine and such. They don’t really help and could contribute to the formation of bladder stones.
Increase water intake and frequent bathroom breaks, opportunities to urinate is your best bet, just add water to the kibble of your choice, they lap it up to get to the food.
This is not veterinary advice; consult your veterinarian.

[aimee]

Hi Linda,

Sorry to hear about your dog. I too have a black lab.
I wouldn’t have any concern feeding the Royal Canin Renal support. I understand that people don’t like corn and wheat and by products if that is your concern. As for myself, after spending a lot of time reading the published literature ( search Pubmed) I don’t have any concern about them.

In regards to kidney disease using plant based protein can be advantageous as the phosphorus is bound in the form of phytate. I read some interesting reports in humans that vegetable based protein for pregnant woman with kidney disease is preferred as then they can feed more protein needed for child development but not overly increase the phosphorus burden. Vegetable proteins are incomplete and need to be balanced with each other and or a animal based source. What is important is the overall balance of the amino acids. the body doesn’t care where they came from.

Foods sold without veterinary oversite will likely be inappropriate for most kidney disease patients who need restriction. Kidney disease is one area where customizing a diet through the use of a veterinary nutritionist is valuable.

[Susan]

Hi,
can you afford to see a diet nutritionist they will make a special diet for your dogs needs…
Dr Karen Becker is releasing her new book soon, which is going to have special diets for health problems like cancer etc but you need a diet now… I went thru a animal Naturopath for my boy when he was put on a raw diet for his IDB & skin allergies…. You need high fat moderate protein & low carbs, I think turkey is the best meat to use or Kangaroo…
Have you email Ketopets & ask questions & ask do they do special raw diet for dogs with Mast Cell cancer? Kibble is very high in carbs & cancer loves a sugar carb diet that’s how it thrives, with Mast Cell cancer it can put pressure on the stomach & can trigger increased intestinal mobility, my boxer had acid reflux & pooing black poo’s & vomiting blood, the first vet told me to put her on a cooked lean diet Chicken diet but then I had to see another vet cause the first vet didn’t have the Endoscope camera 1st vet thought she was vomiting, the vomit had streaks of blood she had an ulcer, this was the worse thing I ever did seeing the second vet, all he believed in was his science, he put my dog on the Hills Z/d vet diet & poor Angie got worse up all night crying in bad pain after eating the Z/d kibble, I told the new vet, the Z/d has made things worse, he said oh she’s probably spoilt & crying for attention, when you feel the vet isn’t any good RUN away…. now I know not to feed high carb diet, I read the carbs % in the Hills Z/d & it’s 60% carbs, she probably couldn’t digested the hard kibble it was causing pain….

Have you looked at “Wysong” formula’s they do a freeze dried raw or Epigen high protein & starch free wet tin food… here’s their site to have a look around.. http://www.wysong.net/epigen-canned

also “Ziwi Peak” raw wet tin food it smells beautiful, I feed my cat the Ziwi Peak air dried & raw wet tin food sometimes…

Also look at “Balance It” https://secure.balanceit.com/
Balance it do special diets & make the Balance It powder to balance a cooked diet, I don’t know if balance can be used in raw diet?? you’d have to contact them, even Dr Karen Becker does consults, I did Patches consult first thru email & told the Naturopath all his health problems, then when I thought she knows what she is taking about I made appointment for a phone call or I could of done a Skype consult, she rung me & spoke for 1 hr, it cost me $60, it was cheaper then a vet visit & she made an easy to follow special home made raw diet with fresh ingredients from supermarket, for Patches IBD & I just emailed for any help afterwards… she said NO to all the premade raw diets, they’re a bit like kibble you don’t know what your getting & where the ingredients came from…with a home made raw or cooked diet you have better control & you know where the meat comes from best to use organic raw meat….

[Susan]

Hi,
I bet your dog is feeling heaps healthier & probably is looking healthier from eating a raw diet…..Yes feed 2 meals a day even 3 meals a day if she seems real hungry, just take a bit from the morning meal & dinner & feed as another small meal, space the feed times out, say 7am 1pm 6pm, so her body gets into a routine & feed the same time everyday, the brain learns, hey she’s going to eat same time & the body does not store any fat when we eat the same time daily, this is why people gain weight so easily, they don’t eat the same time everyday & their body stores fat… also eating more smaller meals thru the day is better then eating 2 larger meals….

When I put my boy on a raw diet he was also very hungry & wanted more, after eating a dry kibble diet all his life that is full of fillers & carbs makes them feel fuller for longer, a raw diet digests easier & quicker & doesn’t sit in the stomach like a kibble does…….
It’s sounds like your girl loves her new diet & she wants more…lol her body will get use to eating a raw diet, you could add some blended pulped veggies to her meals to make her feel fuller ….
I made my own raw balanced diet & blended, peeled carrot, broccoli, celery & apple, I added 2 spoons of the blended veggie mix to 1 cup of grounded kangaroo mince, (my boy has food sensitivities) you can freeze the blended veggie mix in an ice cube tray cover with cling wrap & freeze, just take out of freezer 15mins before feeding time, it thaws very quickly also sweet potatoes you peel then thinly slice the sweet potatoes & bake in the oven…. google natural healthy dog treats, you might find another recipe to make natural healthy treats a lot of people buy a dehydrator & dehydrates their own meat, veggies & make fresh jerky treats for their dogs…. you can do in the oven but oven needs to on very low heat & takes a while….

When a dog is doing smelly farts this can be a food sensitivities/food intolerances, when a dog is sensitive to an ingredient it causes toxic gasses in the bowel, a dog should fart but it shouldn’t smell bad & clear a room. You’ll need to stop all the different proteins & start again, just feed 1 protein for 4-6weeks & see if she’s still doing smelly farts, it can take from 1 day up to 6 weeks to react to certain ingredients, my boy reacts pretty much straight away, he gets red paws, itchy ears, itchy smelly yeasty skin & farts real bad, when he eats something he’s sensitive too… once I worked out what he can’t eat (chicken, barley, wheat, corn & carrots, carrots made his ear smell & itch 20mins after eating a meal with carrots) & removed these ingredients he was good, no smelly farts no more, just watch your girl after she eats what she ate when the farts start, start feeding 1 novel protein if you can get kangaroo that’s a lean novel protein & just feed the Kangaroo & 2-4 blended fruit & veggies & add meaty raw kangaroo bone 3 times a week….
Are you feeding pre-made raw? look for a pre-made raw diet with limited ingredients that have novel proteins, like kangaroo, rabbit, venison, goat proteins she hasn’t really eaten before, also start reading the ingredient list & see is there a common ingredient when she doing bad smelly farts, her gut would of had time to a just to the raw diet she’s been eating a raw diet 3 months now, she’s probably eating ingredient she’s sensitive too….

[KodaHappyTails]

Hello Susan,thank you so much for the response! I am actually already following Rodney Habib,Ketopet and Karen Becker on FB I think their take on the canine cancer epidemic is truly groundbreaking. My only issue seems to be that I’m finding it difficult to find an actual dog food recipe to follow and try with my girl,it’s not really outlined anywhere on Ketopet’s website,I guess that’s the confusing part for me,I have no idea what to feed her,how much etc.? I was thinking of trying her on EVO since its high protein,low carb and then just adding in fresh veggies and supplements but I’m not sure the processed kibble would be doing her any good. It’s all just so overwhelming 🙁

[HoundMusic]

“The Sportdog Large Breed has a lower fat than content than the others (14% vs 18%) which leads me to believe it may not alleviate my weight maintenance struggle. 30/20 protein/fat seems to be the “standard” for active sporting dogs. I would prefer a grain free food, but obviously I am not dead set on it, otherwise I wouldn’t consider the Victor.

I am leaning heavily towards the Sportdog Active, assuming I can actually get it in 50lb bags. Which would you recommend and why?”

Full disclosure: I never tried any of those feeds. That being said, I do have a few friends who use the Sport Dog maintenance formula and are very pleased. Their dogs seem to be in excellent condition, with unusually thick coats for this time of year. I have also heard beaglers rave about Black Gold, though I’ve no personal experience with it myself. You might also want to consider Eukanuba Premium Performance 30/20. I mainly used it for bitches in whelp, but when I had a large pack running, that was my mainstay. I have tried several performance feeds over the years, and that exceeded them all in terms of alertness of my hounds, weight maintenance, heat cycle regularity, tolerance of bad weather conditions, coats, stool output, etc. It cost me somewhere around $35 for 30lbs, but that was several years ago.

BTW, I run rabbit dogs and my experience has been to be VERY wary of grain free feeds, because the carbohydrate sources they contain are often high glycemic index, simple, rather than complex, carbs. Hypoglycemia is your worst enemy in the field. Foods that spike the blood sugar, as well as *those that do not raise it high enough* need to be the stuff of your nightmares if you’re planning on seriously hunting with this dog. That means, be wary of low carb AND high glycemic index diets. Potatoes are an iffy ingredient. They should be all right if not the main source of carbs, but I prefer a feed without them after experiencing a hypoglycemic fit in two dogs from Wellness CORE about 10 years ago 🙁

On low carb diets, I saw concentration issues, however, you definitely need to be concerned about excess protein. In summer or warmer months, a dog in training runs the risk of overheating. During hunting season, you also risk overloading the kidneys and liver, hence the importance of moderation and a maintenance diet in the summer. For that, stay somewhere around 21% or under.

Another thing; fat and protein content have surprisingly little to do with weight maintenance – in my experience, the bioavailability, overall digestibility and kcal content contribute more to weight gain and muscle mass than does overloading with protein. I have a young hound in training who just returned from a friend’s rabbit pen and gets exercised every day, built like a truck on a 19% protein feed. He was on Sportmix 27/12 and has already shed fat and gained muscle after three days back on a 19/8 feed.

So don’t worry overmuch about fat/protein not being enough. And good luck in finding a feed!

[Susan]

Hi Ann C
Yes it’s best to feed wet tin or a balanced cooked diet if a dog has had or is prone to Pancreatitis, I buy the Hills I/D Chicken & Vegetable Stew 156g cans 24 in a cartoon online & keep in the cupboard has long use by dates, & if I see Patch isn’t well & going down hill, he start’s whinging & lifts his front paw up & wants me to rub his stomach/pancreas area, I stop what I’m feeding & feed the Hills I/D for a few meals to rest the stomach & pancreas & rotate his kibble, he does best when I rotate between kibble formula’s & don’t leave him eating the same kibble… he has IBD as well..
Years ago vet diet’s were feed to get the dog stable then you look for another food, but cause a lot vets were leaving these pets on vet diets around 2013-2014 the vet diet companies re did some of their formula’s & balanced them so they can be eaten for a life time, it’s written on the packaging now, its good you pick the Hills, Hills have started improving all their I/d formula’s they’re are for Intestinal Stress, Pancreatits etc, Hills once had the worse ingredients but since Rodney Habib exposed these ingredient & said these poor dogs are having Intestinal Stress & these vet diet are full of corn, wheat, tallow, how are they suppose to get better?? Hills cleaned their act up, now Purina has do the same,

Try not to feed any high fiber, high carb diets, back in the 1970-1990’s before processed quick & easy kibble became the big rage, dogs were feed table scraps, they ate what we ate, home cooked meals, they were more healthy & they seemed to lived longer, they didn’t have all these new skin allergies problems & cancer like we are seeing now, they are saying dogs are at their sickest now, we need to start doing what we did years ago, start adding some fresh healthy lean foods to the dogs diet, “Rodney Habib” face book Nutrition blogger has a video where Researchers found by just adding 2 spoons of healthy foods to a bowl of kibble a day reduces your dog from getting cancer & feed a very low carb, high protein, medium fat diet, Follow & Friend “Rodney Habib” on his face book page, he’s trying to show pet owners how to read pet foods ingredient list, how to prevent cancer & how to help & feed your dog if they have cancer, there’s a video on his F/B page about a dog called Cali she was pregnant but after having a ultra scan she just had 1 puppy & a big cancer mass Hemangiosarcoma, Hemangiosarcoma is an aggressive cancer she had 1-2 months to live, she now is cancer free all cause of a “Ketopet” diet, Ketopet is saving & helping dogs with cancer….Ketopets story is a beautiful story, Ketopet went to pounds around America & rescued these dogs on death row that their owners surrender cause they had cancer, these dog are now cancer free & now they all need homes a beautiful story…
https://www.facebook.com/rodneyhabib
Read ingredient lists, the first 2-5 ingredients should be a proteins then a carb,
for eg, “Canidae’s” Pure Meadow Senior formula, Chicken, Chicken meal, turkey Meal, Sweet Potatoes, peas, chickpeas, chicken fat, the fat is 10.80% max & protein is 28%….

[anonymous]

Dogs that get bladder stones often have a genetic predisposition (struvite and calcium oxalate are the most common), not enough water is another contributing factor.
Has she had an x-ray/ultrasound to rule out bladder stones? Because, they can have more than one type of stones. This also. can result in recurrent urinary tract infections.
Add water to the kibble, and you can also presoak the kibble in water overnight in the fridge prior to serving.
Offer frequent bathroom breaks/opportunities to urinate, keep the bladder flushed. Stagnant conditions in the bladder are conductive to stone formation.
Don’t free feed, 2 or 3 small meals a day is better and always have fresh water available. Maybe add a little plain chicken broth (no onion) to the kibble.
A blocked urethra is a medical emergency and can result in surgery to save the dog’s life.
Did the vet talk to you about prescription meds for stubborn cases? Don’t confuse supplements with medication.
Work with your vet, prescription food and all, when the dog has been stable for 6 months to 1 year you can discuss diet changes.
Use the search engine here to see more threads on this topic.
This is not veterinary advice; consult your veterinarian.
Ps: You may find some helpful information here http://skeptvet.com/Blog/?s=urinary+tract+infection