[MastiffLove]

We will buy in bulk, meaning half a cow, lots of chickens (loose fat removed), half a pig (less pig since it has more fat)(will add organs to those) for a start and later on i will add more types of meats as i find farmers or producers around my area. I will make this food for my 8weeks old English Mastiff puppy BUT my wife’s parents are getting a Colley puppy in July and later on during the summer a German Sheppard puppy, also a friend of ours is researching for a good breeder of Great Danes. That being said we would be 4 different dogs on the same recipe.

1- Can i get Green Tripe from a meat manufacture(not sure if thats how its called)?

2- Can i grind necks?

3- instead of using pureed vegetable can i use a Supergreen powder mixted with the meat then freeze?

4- Should fruits be pureed? or chopped in fine pieces is ok? (like apples for example)

5- wy use Sweet potatoes, isn’t it a source of carbs? Should it always be boiled or can it be oven baked?

6- Thinking of buying in bulk therefore i would have the company to grind the meat including bones…would using:
URBAN WOLF Balancer give a too high output on Calcium and an unbalanced Calc./Phos.?
or
Should i use Dr. Harvey’s Formative Years for Puppies?
NOT to forget my puppy is 8weeks old!

7- As for Greens should i use Mercola’s SpiruGreen Superfood and/OR Swanson’s Sprouted Flax Powder mixed with Wheat Grass Powder?

8- Kymythy Schultze a certified clinical nutritionist said:” Calcium can go out of solution when feeding too many vegetables. Keeping normal acidity (low alkaline) in the digestion by avoiding veggies in puppies keeps calcium in solution and won’t deposit excess on the bones.”
(p.s.: thank you Sharon Buchanan for the quote!)
Would adding the product from Question 8 result in unbalancing my pups acidity?

9- i would mix everything up in large batches (some batch will have some ingredients and some will have different ones to “balance” it out in day on day off type of feeding), and separate in individual portion size for an 8 weeks old large pup in air tight sealed bags and then into the freezer. Doing so would i loose any efficiency of certain foods like greens and fish oil?

*** End comment: I was happy and felt like applauding Mercola.com for funding 300,000$ for the Washington State GMO Labeling Initiative, they are one of the companies, amongst many others, that i buy products from as supplements for my puppy raw diet. http://www.dogsnaturallymagazine.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/cornucopia.jpg ***

[Bobby dog]

Well good luck Thursday! I don’t see anything wrong with Purina in a rotation, that’s one of the good things about rotation, you get a variety that hopefully balances out the diet of our fur babies. I was just commenting on what I see as a better recipe in One as opposed to the Pro Plans and the price point of Pro Plan food.

When I was on Purina’s site the other day, I was looking up dog food for my neighbor who asked for suggestions on Purina (they are only open to Purina right now). They feed straight Dog Chow so at this point just about anything is better for their dog. Anyway, I saw they have several different varieties under the Pro Plan Select like GF, puppy, different flavors, and other options. I thought they only offered one Select variety. They make so many selections under each variety it’s hard to keep up. Thanks for the coupon info again!

[MastiffLove]

Sharon,

Thanks again for your reply!

After talking about all the dog food kibbles and other food types we can give to our puppy and reading and watching videos on http://healthypets.mercola.com/ (thanks HDM) me and my wife decided that we will go raw! It might end up being more costly in the end but at least we will know for sure what is precisely in his dog food and we can have a better control on his diet plus it just makes sense to feed him that way …you don’t find kibbles in the wild!

I’ve ordered Dr. Becker’s Real Food for Healthy Dogs and Cats Cookbook, Probiotics, Krill Oil and Spirugreen Superfood, that way i’ll have everything on hand for whatever needs our dog has. (just mentioning what i bought so far, still more to come for a complete diet like Coconut Oil and such).

I am currently researching for a meat manufacturer that provides food stores to get the best price, luckily for me there are several in my area.

We have bought the breeders kibble (1st Choice Large pup) for the first 3 weeks, then i was thinking of switching him to Orijen (i know the calcium lvl is a bit high) for the next 2 weeks to get him on a better kibble. Then mix Orijen and Raw to finally end up to only raw.

Should i switch 1st Choice and mix it with raw after the first 3 weeks and increase the raw dosage and skip Orijen entirely?…i don’t know, it would be a faster way to get him on a better and proper food balance but he would be on 1st Choice longer and honestly i really dislike the ingredient in that kibble.

[Sharon Buchanan]

MastiffLove ~
Don’t try adding too much to the kibble you feed. All those toppers add to nutrients already in whatever kibble you decide to feed, including perhaps calcium/phosphorus – which should be your primary concern until your Mastiff is at least six to twelve months old. Not saying you shouldn’t add anything, just be mindful of what they’re adding to the diet.

When feeding kibble, it’s unlikely that you’re going to find the perfect food for a large breed puppy. When I brought Mystery home, I’d already done several months of research on food. Although I would have preferred grain-free, I couldn’t find it with an acceptable calcium percentage. I put him on Innova LBP (which has since changed their formula and I’m not sure I’d recommend it now but it’s still better than Pro Plan, Science Diet, Iams and others). I moved Mystery to Orijen LBP when he was about nine months old and able to process excess calcium properly. Orijen will tell you that they shoot for their minimum percentage but as long as they think their maximum is acceptable (and they do hide behind the AAFCO guidelines), I wouldn’t have been comfortable with it in those early months.

Mystery is now a year old and has been on a raw diet for about two months. We’ve transitioned two more Goldens in Korea with my husband and I’m working on four cats (the kitten didn’t need transitioning). If I were to get another puppy today, she’d go straight to raw where calcium/phosphorus is perfectly balanced among protein and organs in a whole-prey diet. And still I don’t add a lot to his diet. He gets coconut oil because of a skin condition, vitamin C and curcumen because of the high cancer mortality in Goldens (though the raw diet and minimalist vaccine schedule will help that as well), and garlic for pest control. I haven’t started adding any fruits & vegetables as I’m still researching their benefits (or lack thereof).

Good to see your note about not feeding RC!

[Shasta220]

Yesss I know I know! He has good intentions, and does put the ointment on until the spot goes away, but like I say – it’s like putting perfume on body odor. It masks it, but ain’t gonna take it away.

What just irks me THE most is that danged Beneful!!! You can buy 4 star foods for the same price, if not less! I somewhat understand someone needing to feed a cheap food due to tight budget, but this guy does not have a tight budget… He thinks he spoils them by buying Puperoni, rawhide chews, and Beggin Strips *long depressed sigh*

I’m glad you guys totally understand me though. I’ll admit, there was a time when I thought that the fancier packaging, various colors/shapes, and “wholesome soy” in Beneful was healthy; but I was a seven year old girl. Ya can’t blame me. By the time I was 11-12 (when I got my first personal puppy), I was aware of the fact that dogs need quality of some sort. I’ll admit, I was content when my folks bought a bag of food with bone meal or by-product as the first ingredient, but hey! For being uneducated, at least I had enough common sense to know animal products are needed in a dog’s diet.

[MastiffLove]

Hello everyone!

I would love some help in figuring what would be the “best” diet for my dog. Alot of you here seem to have alot of knowledge about this subject and i want to give the best diet to my dog so he will be in top health, shape and growth so he can live a great life without issues due to his diet.

On the 9th of April i am getting my Englsih Mastiff His dad is 220pounds and his mom is around 185 pounds he will be 8 weeks old he is one of the biggest of the litter. I am mentioning this so we can have an idea on an average he could possibly weight once adult and i want to promote growth and size without risking ANY health issues due to exessive or poor feeding.

I’ve been reading for quite awhile and theres so much information to consider that i’m getting overwhelmed with info lolll.

He is currently being fed with First Choice Puppy Medium and Large Breeds (4stars on the reviews here) and i will switch him to Orijen Puppy Large once i feel he feels confortable in his new home (most likely after 3 weeks he’s been here) .

I have read on here that mixing a puppies diet with diferent brands and types of food is a good thing also mixing dry kibbles with canned food is good and/or adding home food to his meals will supplement for whats missing.

But here are my questions:

1.Should i keep him on Orijen after his “switch” has been done until he reaches a certain age/weight or should i right away start “mixing things up” to best his diet?

2. Would any supplements or additives be used as a mixing ingredient to his kibbles?

3. Orijen has a Calcium (min/max) of 1.2/1.5% as wirtten on the 13kg (28.6pnd) bag enough or too much calcium? And could it be clarified, is it per portion served, over the whole bag, in one kiddle alone and such…how does those precentage work? so i can in the furture know what i’m dealing with.

4. Could someone give me a good idea on how to proceed thrue all of this like weeks old you do this, at a certain weight (considering hes not over or under weight and such) you start adding those kind of things…so on and so forth.

I understand theres alot of factors to consider like activity levels, too fat too skinny, etc. and so i will be monitoring his weight and growth weekly thrue his first year so i can spot anything different at a certain event like using a certain type of food or supplement etc. So try to be positive in giving as much detail as you can…i want to learn and i love precise and detailed info.

P.S. I live in Canada Quebec both parents are American living here in case you wish to suggest some food brands please consider i might not have access to it other then by shipping.

Sorry for the loooong post i’m french and i try to be clear on what i’m concerned about.

[kvee]

Sorry. I am just jumping in to ask a specific question to my situation that has nothing to do with the original author’s.

I have been feeding Susie ( 9 m.o. chimix) Orijen puppy. I had to get her off Wellness Puppy because she was gassy and bloated.

Orijen eliminated that but now she is always munching on her paws.

Could this be the legumes? Could anyone advise me on what to complement Orijen with to deter the effects of possibly too much legumes on this food?

[crazy4cats]

Hi-
I’ve been feeding the Pure Balance beef, veges and rice to my dogs as a topper, along with the Kirkland cuts in gravy for some time now. I think it’s a great value. It is only $1 per can and it is full of meat and hardly any rice at all. Although it does say adult on it, so if it is only food feeding, like someone else mentioned you would have to get puppy or all life stages which I believe they also carry. I have also bought Variety and Fresh Pet Select at Walmart in the past. Congrats and good luck. As you are finding out, pups are a lot of work and they will chew and eat anything!

[Bobby dog]

Hi Sheltie Pom:
I recommend you check out DFA’s canned food list for 3.5 – 5 star canned foods to start with and for the DFA ratings of the brands I have listed below to help with your decision. If you are looking to purchase food from Wal-Mart I suggest you look at Pure Balance stews & 95% canned selections, Rachael Ray Nutrish tubs, Freshpet, Newman’s, Variety, Natural Life, and Evolve. Not all Wal-Marts carry all of these brands.

If you are looking for budget friendly canned foods also look into Kirkland Cuts and Gravy from Costco (you have to buy a case, they are about 75 cents/can) or 4Health from Tractor Supply $1.00/can.

Since you are feeding a puppy, look for puppy or all life stages to be listed on any brand you decide to feed; not adult only food. I am not sure which brands meet the puppy/all life stages criteria out of the brands I have listed.

I also recommend you look into rotational feeding for your pup. Here’s a link to a DFA article about rotational feeding:
/frequently-asked-questions/diet-rotation-for-dogs/

I feed Pure Balance along with some of the brands I listed above to my dog; he loves the taste, and does well on both Pure Balance varieties and all flavors.

[Patrick E]

I have a question for those out there who have experience with German Shepherds. I have a 12 week old male German Shepherd, and he is very active. I would like some feeding advice on habits, frequency, and brand advice. I’ve seen some negative comments here on the manufacturer of Diamond, unfortunately for me the breeders have fed the puppies nothing but straight up Diamond brand Lamb and Rice. They have also told me to keep the bowl full at all times, which I already knew was bad advice. I just want to make sure that my Dodger is going to be as healthy as possible. Problem is all these 5 star rated dry foods that I have been seeing range from $60-$70 per 20lb bag. Hence the frequency and amount for puppy. Is the bag going to last me a week? 2 weeks? Just some friendly advice is very welcome!

[Naturella]

Dori (and everyone),

Bruno is doing much better! Last night poor baby must have been starving because he tried to eat my roommate’s dog’s food, and turned over his empty food dish and was chasing it around and licking it in the bathroom… It was pathetic, so I took it away. He slept all through the night and when taken out this morning, he didn’t poop. I fed him some of his kibble softened with warm water, and left home because I had to attend an event. When I just came home, he looks fine, no poop in the house, and when I took him out, he pooped a good amount and it was soft, but normal-soft, not weird-soft. It was formed and everything!

I think we are on the right track, so I will feed him the same for dinner too. He should be like new by tomorrow, if he keeps going this way! 🙂

Thank you all for the advice and concern, we really appreciate it! 🙂

P.S. Dori, in my research and in speaking with some vets, I was told the total opposite – that small dogs mature faster than large dogs, and can be considered adults by 7-8 months. I am confused now… As far as food goes, he was on puppy food until he was about 8 months or so, then went to all-life-stages food and will be on that for a while. How long should I consider him a “puppy”?

P. P. S. Also, before the treat incident (which were also good for him treats, with freeze-dried liver, bananas and carrots, not like a hot fudge sundae, lol), he was doing great on a variety of additives to his kibble to help with his usually extremely hard stools. He would get a canned sardine once a week, one raw egg/week, an RMB/week, coconut oil every other day, and pumpkin, ground flax seed, yoghurt – a couple times/week, and cottage cheese once a week. Also, natural chews, such as ears, bully sticks, piggy snouts, etc. (not all at once, maybe 1-2/week). So when can I reintroduce those, since he was fine with them (we have been doing this for 2+ weeks).

[Naturella]

Shasta,

This is amazing that your lab has had such a turnaround! It is so amazing to see and hear success stories of better food, so I am always ecstatic to see my friend who switched to good food.

As for my other friend, I took her to my favorite store today, and they hooked her up with over 15 samples of 4-and-5-star foods for her old rottie who has been on Beneful and Pedigree so far… She was happy, I was beyond excited, and I can’t wait too see which one he likes/does on best, and which one she gets. I think she should incorporate a joint supplement in whatever she feeds anyway. But I think we’re on a good track there! Hoping for a smooth transition and great results. Also, I did recommend to her to start with may a 3- or 3.5-star food first, and then go to a 4- or 5-star one.

Shasta, I would have never guessed you are a teenager! You rock! 🙂

And also, I agree with both Shasta and aquariangt – although some people feed Beneful and the sort because of price, it is true that good foods can be found for much less online or at clearance/sales racks in pet stores/boutiques. But I can understand how uninformed people can suffer from commercials and misinformation, and I also believe that once they are open to at least checking this website out, they will also get hooked. Like with Shasta, that’s what happened to me. I just stumbled upon it googling something, and bam. That was it for me. I just wish people weren’t so headstrong about what they choose to feed and at least entertain the idea of learning something from someone else… My roommate, however, said to me, after I had had Bruno for about 2 months – “You have had a dog for how long, 2 months now? What do YOU know about dogs. I GREW UP around dogs and have had my own for over 3 years now.” Then it was clear to me that he just wouldn’t ever take anything I tell him, and, sadly, even his vet recommends this site, and other foods (NOT the SD), but he would still not listen, or research so meh… It is what it is.

And another dog that I take pride in being put on good food is my own. When Bruno was first found, he had the worst case of fleas the vet had ever seen. His fur was falling out, and he had patches of sores and wounds all over. The couple that found him (the second ones; the initial “founders” did not even give him food or water for 2 days before the other couple visited them and took the puppy from them) did a great job de-fleeing him, having him dewormed, given food and water, and a good safe space to live for a while until found a forever home (that would be us!). They had him on Purina-Something and he looked fine (I wasn’t able to tell he had fur missing before), and only had 2 scabs left from when he had sores. It wasn’t until we got him on Blue Buffalo Wilderness that his fur got really shiny (that’s when I realized it had been dull before!), and he started growing fur on his tummy (I thought it was supposed to be bare, not that it was actually missing fur!). So good food helped my little guy too, and like others, at first I did listen to the pet store associates and even my roommate (the Science Diet guy), but even then, I preferred grain free and higher protein food, I guess by instinct. So once I found this site, I have never looked at dog food again, let alone any grocery store’s pet aisle, lol.

[Shasta220]

Some of you might remember, but a while ago I started a thread on here asking for kind ways to persuade an owner that Beneful’s “…wholesome ingredients like soy, corn, and real meat…” Aren’t as “wholesome” as he thinks. I still have been unable to convince him, and every time I pet sit for him, I’m stuck giving his poor pooches the garbage.

Well, I just went over for a “meet n greet” of a new client with a Lab pup. They’re both retired and have a beautiful home, and seem to take wonderful care of their pets. I was gonna assume they’d have at least a fair-quality feed store-type food, but of course not! They had Beneful for their 8wk old puppy. I’m going to take care of it for 2wks next month – gosh I don’t know how I’ll survive, feeding that puppy such trash! I’m half tempted to feed the pup my own food, as it’s gold compared to Beneful (then again, about anything is!).

Anyway, I’ll be dropping a bug or two in those owners’ ears as well, trying to tell em: just because Beneful is one of the more expensive Walmart foods around here, definitely doesn’t make it the best…

Sorry for the random vent. If anyone else wants to pitch in with their Beneful (or other junky food) story, feel free LOL! I understand giving lower quality food because you simply can’t afford more, but seriously! I buy 4 star food that is nearly HALF the cost of that junk! (And this family definitely doesn’t seem to be concerned about price…)

[weezerweeks]

I have a rescued yorkie. He was 2 when I got him and now he is 6. First thing get him off pedigree it is a horrible food. Try something like nutrisource puppy and small dog chicken. How much does he weigh or how much should he weigh then feed him that amount . Try adding digestive enzymes and probiotics to his food,it should help with the loose stools. You can also try adding about a teaspoon of pumpkin not the pie filling but pure pumpkin t his food. Yorkies are very hard to potty train but a 6 year old should be easier than a puppy. Take him out often and say go potty when he does give him a treat. He will eventually get it. This is my very favorite breed. They are like little people. Read the forums on hear and you will learn a lot. Maybe Sandy will give you some ideas she has small breeds. Good luck! I feed my yorkie canned food. It’s better than kibble .

[Mom2Cavs]

Ooohh….Cavaliers! I have 2 right now, older girls. Congratulations on your new baby. If it were me and I had another puppy I would probably feed Fromm Gold Puppy, or Wellness Small Breed Puppy. I also like all-life-stage foods like Annamaet, Fromm 4Star, Dr. Tim’s. I also top my dogs’ food with canned food for more variety and moisture. A good probiotic/enzyme supplement, a whole food vitamin/mineral, and omega 3’s in the form of fish oil are some things to consider in the future, as well. I also admit I used to feed Greenies and Dentastix but discovered the ingredients aren’t that great and they can be a choking hazard, as well. Now, I like to use The Honest Kitchen Beams. They are dried fish skins. I’m sure others will have recommendations for you soon. 🙂

[Nancy M]

I would like to know what anyone would suggest as far as feeding probably any dog, but in this particular case, puppies; one being about 5 months old and the other about 10 weeks old. They are both miniature Aussies, one being pretty high energy. Isn’t the objective, besides good nutrition, to feed a food that has high digestibility? These two pups are my daughter’s and currently on a Diamomd brand puppy food. In my opinion, that’s the first problem. But secondly, in order to minimize a yard full of stools, which seems to be never ending, isn’t a food high in digestibility, the goal here. It’s pretty apparent to me (and her) that this food, and many that would do the same, is pretty much going right through them, along with much of the value and nutrition, as well. Cost will be a factor I’m sure, but surely there’s something better than Diamond, but won’t be out of the ballpark in $$$$$$$?????

Suggestions, please.
Thanks Much! Your advice and assistance will be much appreciated!

[Shasta220]

I feed my dogs Diamond Naturals, solely because it’s the most affordable 4-star food we have around here. I really hope your dogs do well on it. My younger ones are doing great on it, the older lab is starting to get a bit of extra grease again. She did better on other foods, but we just can’t afford them anymore.

If you have a Costco nearby (assuming you’re able to get the bigger bags), and your dogs do well on Diamond Naturals, then try looking into their Kirkland food. It’s made by Diamond, and the ingredients are very similar. About 25-30$ for a 40lb bag, and DN for me is about 33-40$ for a 40lb bag – very affordable 🙂

Ah good, I’m glad dchassett agrees with me that toy breeds do NOT need the breed specific food.

Come to think of it, DN foods are 4-star, then Extreme Athlete and Small Breed Puppy were 5-star (I haven’t looked at the ingredients to compare with other varieties yet). I wouldn’t see what would be wrong with feeding the puppy formula to other dogs, even larger adult dogs – if all the ingredients are quality and the nutrition is balanced.

[Lablubber]

Hi Crew

This is what I ordered to try the two either alternating or a mix of the two if he has no trouble with either of them… But I am introducing some cooked hamburger and ground turkey as well as spinach and going to buy some of the stuff you have to rehydrate to start with for the ease of carrying it with me.

One thing that I have had a hard time with was the a lot of the food has no no’s in it that you guys have told me about and I have read about as well such as Rosemary Extract or Oil- Seizures, Canola Oil-Cancer, Garlic – Anemia, and the first thing Rosemary which even rules out Wellness Core Puppy even though it was on the list and I was going to get it an Orijen both as alternates or as a mix. What is strange now is I am driving all of my friends nuts on what treats they buy their dogs and the food that they are feeding them as well.

One thing that is definitely noticable with Jess is that he has thinned down dramatically since coming off of Pupina LB Puppy Chow and he is very lean which I personally have a hard time getting use to because I have always had nice, big, rolly polly, lab puppies and I guess it was just fornate that I have never had one with a hip or shoulder or elbow issue, except with one of my old females, she was English Bred Lab and she was as big as a horse and in her old age she around 10 or 12 she did start having a slight limp in her rear end but that was it. So this this whole thing is a new ballgame for me….With keeping a LBP looking like a lean and mean greyhound instead of a huge big old lab like i always liked to see. Bigger has always been better to me, but what did I know.

I just have to get rid of a whole lot of old school ways and ways of thinking, that now have to be reprogrammed in me, but guess what? you guys were knowledgeable enough about this whole thing and the backed it up with factual evidence and because I love my dogs enough I had to take heed and listen and am glad I did… Because I would hate to see this pup or for that matter my either of my two Westies or Custard the Cat, developing cancer because of Monsanto’s genetically muted or altered grain, being in their food or them developing hip or shoulder or elbow issues because I was too stubborn to listen to you guys about Calcium issues with it’s uptake in LBP’s. So thank all of you for that as well for giving me a quick education in what is best for my dog and for making me dig deep on my own into what what all the leading specialists say about these things as well…

This is the kibble I ordered yesterday from Chewy to transition over to from Blue…

1 x Orijen Puppy Large Breed Grain-Free Dry Dog Food, 28.6-lb bag
1 x Annamaet Grain-Free Salcha Poulet Formula Dry Dog Food, 30-lb bag

Thanks Lablubber

[Sharon Buchanan]

Lablubber, I hope you don’t think I was inferring that you were lazy. Certainly if you were, you wouldn’t have found this forum. I know that at this point in my life, I just happen to have a little more time to spend on reading and researching that I didn’t have before (though I have been ignoring the tumblefurs rolling all over my house lately).

My point is, that how ever busy you may be, that last decision – which food you’ll choose to feed your pup, must be your own. While I’m happy to tell you what works for me and what I know, I would not want to make that decision for you.

Devoting a little extra time, even if just an hour, to compare the brands that have been suggested by folks here will pay off in puppy years. And, as Duke said, all the foods on HDM’s list are appropriate for LBPs, we each just have differences as to which is appropriate for OUR puppy. You’ll find the right fit for yours.

Let us know what finally works for you.

[Pepper1]

Is there a high quality dog food with 3.5 or less fiber? Transitioning my pup from puppy to adult she’s 1year this month. Feeding grain free authority for puppy’s to grain free authority small breed. And she’s pooping like 5-6 times a day!

[Sharon Buchanan]

Lablubber ~
No one can tell you definitively what to feed your puppy. We all have opinions based on our limited or extensive research and experience. When we brought our first Golden home, we fed puppy food – I don’t remember exactly what but it was easily available in the commissary so probably just junk. She required double-hip surgery before she was two.

When we decided to add another Golden – Mystery, I spent two months researching large breed nutrition, even before we decided on him. I read every article that HDM has conveniently posted on page one here (though I found them independent of this site), created my own table of foods, listing proteins, fats, calcium/phosphorus ratios/percentages, grains/no grains and so on. Based on that initial research I chose a food. I continued my research, signed up for newsletters, magazines, etc., and eventually chose a different food. As my research continued, I switched my cats to better foods as well. And I continue researching ways to feed my babies the best ways possible.

I appreciate so much all the advice I get from everyone in the DogFoodAdvisor forums, but the decision to purchase food A or food B is ultimately mine. Any suggestions from anyone are not taken blindly – I still go to the manufacturer’s website, look at their ingredients, lookup an ingredient I’m not familiar with, check to make sure there are no known controversies or issues with those ingredients (for example: the link between rosemary extract and seizures in humans, canola oil and cancer, synthetic vs. natural supplement sources), where they come from, how they’re processed, what temp they’re cooked at. All of this is taken into account before I purchase anything.

Now, I understand if you don’t have that kind of time. But you’re here for a reason – you want to feed your dog the best that you possibly can (which is why you’re considering raw!). So, find a just bit of time to look at some of the kibble recommendations that folks have made. I haven’t seen anyone say that Purina or Iams or Science Diet or Royal Canin or Blue are acceptable foods so the recommendations you do find here are all going to be good to excellent choices. I’ve stated my preference a number of times – Orijen, but that doesn’t make Earthborn or Wellness or Canine Caviar bad foods. Open up a few separate browser windows and do a side-by-side comparison to see what you think is best, check Chewy.com prices and you’ll make the right decision for you and your pup.

Now, if you’re wanting to find out more about raw, there’s plenty of information here – I’m already smarter about feeding Mystery raw for the time I’ve spent asking questions and reading responses. But I’ve also signed up for a weekend-long web conference being hosted by DogsNaturallyMagazine.com at the end of this month called Raw Roundup. Experts in the field will be presenting any number of topics on feeding raw and I have started a list of questions to ask in case they are not addressed during the sessions.

You can do this!

[lmnordrum]

Lablubber: I was very overwhelmed too! Had advice to feed raw but it is impractical for me and frankly it grosses me out. After a lot of reading, including every post on this forum including the external articles, I decided to feed Wellness Core Puppy (grain free.) My dog loves it, she has a great coat and no issues with the BMs. I order it from Chewy.com .

My dog was being fed Royal Canin puppy by the breeder and although I tried to mix the food at the beginning, the dog just picked out the Wellness and left the Royal Canin in the bowl. I said the heck with it and just quit the Royal Canin and fed the Wellness and she never had a problem.

For low-value treats and training I’m feeding Earthborn Holistic Meadow Feast. For high value treats I’m just buying meat and cooking it and putting it in the freezer. Its cheaper to buy chuck roast than it is to get dog snacks.

Hope this helps!

[Lablubber]

Rick Rankin

So can somebody make it simple for me and please tell me on the kibble end of it. If you were just starting out with a lab puppy and wanted to feed him the best kibble… What is the best overall choice. Orijen, Acana, Annamaet, Earthborn Holistic, Go! Fit & Free, Wellness or Dr Something or whatever for a 13 week old Lab puppy. I have read to oblivion on what is best. I have read every persons articles about what is recommended and I am even more confused now and becoming quite desperate watching my grow and hopefully do well.

As I said I tried to switch over to a good food and switched to Blue Lg. Breed Puppy and then only to find out that it too was too high in calcium after all the 20 days of transitioning to another food.

I do plan to slowly work over to some raw diet when I feel knowledgeable enough to do so…Mainly on his evening meals and I have tried some of the stuff PattyVaughn recommend for him as well as adding it to his kibble as toppers to his food to see how he reacted to it and so far so good. But for me and my lack of knowledge, I am just afraid that to jump off completely in the Raw scene because you also need to know that I take this dog with me 24/7. He goes everywhere I go and I also take him to work with me as well. Plus he is already training hard every day with all of his retriever work and obedience training. So then with the very limited knowledge that I have on this subject and the conditions that I am involved in, a totally raw diet would almost be impossible for me to do right now….Plus I am afraid I would not have enough knowledge to give him and provided everything that he needs as far as supplementations that go along with it for a lg. breed growing puppy. Especially when I want to be extra careful on the calcium end of it and then again saying that… I also don’t want to under nourish him in anyway whatsoever either.

So could I just plead for someone’s mercy and wisdom in this situation and please recommend the best kibble for a 13 week old lab puppy and then if you don’t mind, share with me where the best place is to order it…. Because as most all of you warned me….My local pet stores carry very little healthy lg. breed puppy food and all the local vets carry is Science Diet and Royal Canin or something like that and when you read their ingredients, none of them meet the requirements…

So then…Could someone please come to my rescue and help someone in a pinch here, because I am down to about the last 8 # of the food that I have and so now would be the time to transition to another one. I have learned tons from all of you guys but for me time is of the essence because I want this pup to have the best I can get for him with the limited amount of knowledge that I do have on board.

Thanks Lablubber

[jewels]

Thanks Sharon! I just noticed that the Wellness LBP food that I purchased (still unopened so I could return it) does NOT say “Core” on the package… just Wellness LBP. I assume that this is the grain inclusive formula and the Core is the grain free formula? I did not see a Core Puppy or Core LBP at the store, just the regular Wellness Puppy and LBP. The Core formula is the one recommended on the list, correct? But if I understood you right, the regular LBP formula does have the correct calcium levels, it’s just lower in protein than the Core? I’m sure I have other options than Wellness, but my options are limited unless I order online. I’m in a small town and Petco is my only option to buy locally. He’s been on the NV Prairie LBP for a few months and he likes it, but his poop is always mushy. He seems to be healthy otherwise, but picking up mushy poop is no fun. 🙂 I have tried the NV Instinct in the Rabbit formula and he didn’t like it. I also tried the NV Instinct LID Turkey and he ate it fine but his poops weren’t much different than on the Prairie. Maybe it’s just the NV brand that doesn’t sit well with him, which is why I thought I’d rotate to a different brand this time and see what happens. He didn’t have mushy poops when I got him, but the breeder was feeding a mixture of Eukanuba and Pro Plan Select adult foods… which I didn’t want to continue with. Should I try the pumpkin first before I change foods? Does the pumpkin “fix” the problem or do you have to continually use pumpkin in order to maintain? The other food options at my local Petco are Halo’s Spot Stew and Pinnacle (other than the NV and Wellness brands). I might be able to find Innova but I’m not sure. Any preferences between those brands? If I were to order online and could therefore get any brand, would that change the preferences? Thanks again for any and all help! I’d like to find a few brands I can rotate through that he likes, does well on, and doesn’t give him mushy poop!

[Sharon Buchanan]

jewels ~
The reason Wellness’s LBP formula is not on the list is because the list only includes grain-free formulas.

If you’re going to feed Wellness, their grain inclusive LBP food claims a min/max calcium of 1.1/1.5% with no less that 26% protein. Their Core, grain free recipe for puppies (non-specific of target size), claims no more than 1.5% calcium and no less than 36% protein. Since the max calcium is the same, it’s probably safe to assume the Core Puppy formula will be alright to feed a LBP.

At seven months old, you could move your poodle to the Core Large Breed Adult formula which has a max calcium of 2% and minimum 34% protein. And since the ingredients are essentially the same for the Core Puppy and Core LBA, either recipe would be fine at this point though, if my only choice was Wellness, I would keep a seven month old on the puppy formula at least a few more months.

If your puppy continues to have loose stools and there is no medical reason for it, you might try adding a tablespoon of plain pumpkin to his food – don’t use pie filling, until his stools normalize. Make sure he’s not outside eating wild mushrooms, bunny poop or turkey poop or any other critter poop if you live in a rural area.

[Dori]

I too am sorry for your losses. It’s always a difficult thing to go through. I feed my three dogs grain, white potato, white rice free foods.
As someone else mentioned, if you check out the 4 and 5 star foods and read their ingredient lists you can go from there. Many of us on this site find a food that our dogs do well on and then continue the search so that we can have a few different brands and proteins to rotate through. Some rotate from bag to bag others rotate more often. I don’t really feed kibble any more (I feed commercial raw, also The Honest Kitchen which is a dehydrated food that you just add water to) and am just starting to delve into doing homemade raw meals. When I did feed kibble, some of the brands I really liked were Brothers Complete (you can only buy it on their website but they have very very quick delivery and great customer service, it’s a family run business), Zignature, Victors (you can also order Victors on Amazon, Natures Logic, Acana just to name a few.

Keep in mind that, and it’s only my way, when I first bring a puppy home (or any dog for that matter) I usually keep them on the same food they were eating for the first two weeks. My feeling is that they are going through enough stress with moving to a new home, new people, etc. that I think it’s just a little easier on them that at least something in their lives is familiar to them. Then I start the slow transition to a food I’m comfortable feeding and also comfortable with the companies website and where they source their ingredients and what plants are used to produce their food. I try to make sure I then research what other dog foods that plant may be producing and, of course, have there being any recalls on any of them.

On the top left hand section of this page is a wonder list of Dog Food Recalls and you can also sign up to be put on their email list for dog food recalls as they happen.

Hope any of this has helped. Good luck with the new puppy. Let us know how you make out. Oh, and ask all the questions you want.

[Shasta220]

It doesn’t sound like your boys are on good food at all. You have awesome intentions, but the nutritional value just isn’t there.

I really don’t recommend puppy food, especially not ANYTHING under the Purina brand. Look into 4-5 star foods on this site. There are some forums on here with lists of the most affordable ones, as I imagine the food bill to get high.

No no no to hot dogs. They are very very processed, and whatever nutritional values were in them got processed right out. I’d suggest going to your local butcher/grocery store, and buying raw meats/bones like chicken, beef, etc. Those are much better meat sources… And I’d avoid any jerky designed for people too, it has extra salt and often sugar that dogs don’t need. Try making your own jerky by slicing meat and baking it in the oven until it’s chewy. (EDIT: oops, sorry, just saw that you’ll make your own jerky instead of store bought. Good good.)

The other posts have said no over feeding, and I can’t emphasize that enough either. It is especially important that you don’t over feed the puppy, as giant breeds will tend to grow as much as their food intake allows. If they grow more than their body was designed for, it will put horrible stress on their bones/joints, no matter how fit they are as an adult.

Another note on food: it will probably be a bit tough on your wallet when you switch to a premium food, but in reality, the risk is NOT switching. When they’re on quality food, they will need to eat less, much less.
My 90lb APBT mix, Otto, ate 9c of Dog Chow daily, and was still very very lean/fit. When we finally moved him up to a 3-star Nutra Nuggets, he went all the way down to 2c daily with no weight change.
Another miracle story of what food switches will do: we’ve fed our dogs 1-3 star foods for about 10yrs sadly. Our lab had Otitis, and ALWAYS had a disgusting smell to her, as well as hot spots and shedding. She also was acting very lethargic (we figured it was just her age). When we switched her to a quality food, she lost about 5 years of her age in just a few months! She was bouncy, happy, wanted to play fetch, and had ZERO odor to her!

So switching their food will give you amazing benefits, I promise. 😉

• This reply was modified 12 years, 1 month ago by Shasta220.

[Sue’s Zoo]

Well said Patty! I love my vet. But when it comes to feeding, they just seem to be following the typical path.

I started on this quest because EVERY single dog I’ve had in the last 30+ years died from cancer of a digestive organ. And they were on higher end kibble. There has to be a reason and diet is obviously the first consideration. Even though several of my dogs lived a ‘normal’ life span for their breed, some did not. And how do we know that normal wouldn’t be higher if all dogs ate raw and/or natural diets?

Since first discovering this forum when I wanted to find the best foods for my new puppy (months before he came to us), I have spent uncountable hours researching raw vs kibble and have found so much evidence supporting raw that I can’t imagine any other reason (except the one Patty mentions) for the AVMA to have a problem with it. Because even though I’m sure there are some feeding raw that aren’t fully balancing the diet and must choose lower grade food and less variety as they feed their beloved pets, I still cannot believe what they’re doing is more harmful than some comparably priced kibbles.

What has most impressed me is the obvious interest and care raw food proponents have shown in searching for the best they can provide for their pets AND their willingness to educate others. Most I’ve come into contact with are intelligent people who spend many, many hours researching and preparing the best food possible. I have yet to see one of them disparage another pet owner for feeding kibble etc. They have, instead, recommended the best possible kibble for their price point and offer suggestions for rotation etc to get as much benefit as possible.

Which reminds me to say thanks once again to all the wonderful people on this forum–Patty, HDM, RDM and many others–that spend time answering so many questions from others (me included) who are just learning about better nutrition for their dogs.

[Sue’s Zoo]

Sharon,
I’m beginning to wonder if this winter will ever end! Though it sounds like you’re having a rougher time of it than we are in St. Louis. And it sounds like you must be in a fairly rural location. But I think pulling out some of your less expensive cuts to get by is a good idea since you’ve already made a start towards raw. That’s just my two cents from a novice raw-feeder! The stories about your Maine Coon are priceless. I can almost see him as I read. Except for the obvious physical differences his personality reminds me of our tuxedo cat, Gizmo.

As far as managing the bones etc. based on what I’ve read I wouldn’t worry about one feeding or even several but trying to balance it over a week? Maybe longer since Mystery isn’t a puppy? I try to be more careful of the Calcium/Phosphorus ratios with two large breed, fast growing puppies because in a week they can grow significantly and in a month, one of them could easily gain another 10 pounds!

Good luck with the snow and food. Try to stay warm and dry. And keep me posted!

[RescueDaneMom]

I agree with what Ana said. I have a Great Dane as well so I understand the challenge that feeding a giant breed can be sometimes. I would avoid the hot dogs too. I only use hot dogs (good quality, all meat, all natural) for very special rewards. It’s not something you want to feed all the time.

My Dane was always slightly overweight on kibble no matter what brand I fed or how much I reduced his portion. The best thing I ever did for his health was switch him to The Honest Kitchen and raw. THK is a dehydrated food. You add water and let it rehydrate before serving it. It would be great for traveling in your motorhome with. You can incorporate some raw food instead of hot dogs if the concept of raw doesn’t bother you. There are a number of high quality raw frozen foods out there. I like Primal and Stella & Chewy’s the best. I started making my own homemade raw food because it was cheaper for me.

If you want to feed kibble, definitely check out the 4 and 5 star rated kibbles on this site. Everybody has their preferences. A few I like and have fed my Dane are: Earthborn Holistic, Annamaet Grain Free, Go! Fit & Free, Acana Regionals (Grain Free), and Orijen. Others I like are Horizon Legacy, Dr. Tim’s, and Victor. I would feed the 7 month old a food from Hound Dog Mom’s list of foods that are appropriate for a large breed puppy: https://docs.google.com/file/d/0BwApI_dhlbnFTXhUdi1KazFzSUk/edit All of these foods are 4 or 5 stars and have the appropriate amount of calcium for a growing large breed puppy.

Good luck and have fun with your newly adopted pups!

[ExplEngineer]

I have adopted two English Mastiffs, one is ~3yrs old and the other is 7mos old. Yes, I know that they have some different nutritional requirements, but I also know that #1: They are inseparable, father-son, & totally dedicated to each other; #2: Yes, I know that I can separate them at feeding time, or at any other time, I can train them to do what I tell them to do, etc. but I can also raise happy, well adjusted dogs that do what they are told when obedience is a real requirement, I took in both of them because I can tell from their interactions that while they could be raised separately, they will be happier being together, and I am at that age that while they will have to accept responsibilities as a Certificated Service Dog(s), I can be genuinely happy when they are genuinely happy and unless or until a problem arises (which I shall always be diligent in looking for indicators, I am not oblivious to these matters), I can afford to raise two Mastiffs and my goal is to make their lives as happy, and as stress-free as I can make it consistent with the rules of my house. The eat at the same time, generally out of their own bowls, but they have been known to trade out the bowls that they are eating out of, and they eat far better when they are fed together. I have been using Purina Large Breed Dry Dog Food (which is what I have fed both Blackhawk, whom I just lost, and Othello before him and who my Vet has commented as to how healthy looking they were, and they could maintain proper weight on that diet), 20oz-22oz supplemented with about 0.5lbs of meat b.i.d. Until the youngest is about a year old, I will mix in Puppy Chow to ensure that he is also getting the correct balance of nutrients for a growing puppy, while allowing the adolescent (these large dogs are generally not fully and finally developed until they reach 3.5 to 4.0 yrs old) to partake of the same mixture. My principle guidelines in feeding are to watch the weight and weight gain and growth of the each of my lads, and as long as they appear to be doing well, have great looking coats and show no signs of nutritional deficiencies, in consultation with my Vet I continue to use the same foods in their diet. The meat component will vary from Hot Dogs, which allow good portion control and consistency, are nutritious and if properly selected provide a proper cross-section of meat(s), while being required to meet USDA standards for human food, provide some variety, and are easily kept while we are on the road in the motor home, and not requiring any continual readjustments to new diets at home and away. When we put up a steer in the freezer, I not only set aside beef from it for the lads, but have it packaged in serving size containers for portion control, plus I set aside a portion of it to be prepared into “jerky treats” (I am no longer comfortable with the commercially available jerky treats, + every now and then I can snitch one of theirs when it is time for a treat). Having said all of that, I am never too old, or too stubborn to learn, or to find a new means of feeding the boys if it is to their advantage. Fortunately, while in this economy no one can say that cost is never a factor, but it is not a controlling factor, and if there is a valid reason to convert to other foods or additions to their diets, I am more than willing to change them over, notwithstanding a price or cost increase. Please jump in and share your views, I’m new here and truly interested in having the happiest and healthiest well-behaved and well-trained Mastiffs around.

[Lance & Nikki]

Hi! I was researching some info on food for our dogs and I came upon this site and more importantly, this great thread. I read some of the thread but didn’t see what I was looking for exactly, so my apologies if this has already been addressed, but I really want to make sure that we are doing the right thing when it comes to feeding our wonderful dogs.

We have a Great Dane that is now almost 13 months old and we have a St Bernard puppy that will be 14 weeks old this Friday. Right now we are feeding them both Artemis Fresh Mix for medium and large breed puppies. We went with this food because it got good reviews and from what we could find, it’s a high quality food. But now that Pepper (our Dane) is over a year old, we were thinking of transitioning her to an adult food and preferably a grain free one because she does have a rather sensitive stomach. In researching this, we saw that calcium content is an issue in giant breed dogs, especially breeds like the Great Dane, and it seems that many grain free foods are higher in calcium.

What we want to switch Pepper over too is the Merrick grain free line of foods because from everything we have ever read, Merrick is a fantastic company that makes extremely high quality food. And since we have to get the Artemis food shipped in because nobody locally carries it, and we already use the Merrick canned food a couple of times a week to supplement the dry food and both our dogs love it, we would really like to use the Merrick food once our dogs are old enough to switch to adult food. I did e-mail Merrick to find out what their calcium content is by dry matter and they sent me the following:

Grain Free Chicken- 2.50%
Grain Free Buffalo- 2.50%
Grain Free Duck- 2.50%
Grain Free Pork- 2.32%

Now these are all over the recommended limit of 1.3% to 1.5% that I have read about for giant breed dogs, but most of those limits were for their growth stage. My question (and concern) is, is Pepper old enough now where the calcium content of the food isn’t as critical as it would be if she were still a fast growing puppy (she’s right about 100 pounds now and hasn’t put on much weight at all in the last few months, she’s seems pretty steady at her current weight and size)? She currently is eating twice a day (morning and evening) about 2 cups at each feeding.

Sorry for the long winded first post and thank you in advance for any advice/information you can throw our way, it is greatly appreciated!

Lance & Nikki

[angele_normand]

Hi,

Next week, my 8 week old puppy will be arriving. She is half german shepherd and half labrador.

I know that a homemade diet is much healthier than kibble. I have a lot of knowledge on homemade dog foods for adult dogs from experience and from doing lots of reading. However, I can’t find that much information on if you want to feed a puppy homemade dog food.

So my question is, how much protein, calories and carbohydrates should I feed my 8 week old puppy? And how much do the amounts increase as my puppy gets older?

I called my vet, and they have no knowledge on homemade dog food so they are no help.

[Mom2Cavs]

You feed your new Shepherd puppy cat food? Now I will say that some dog and cat foods contain the exact same ingredients in some companies. For example, Fromm Gold canned foods are so similar between cat and dog formulas that I actually feed my cat the dog cans. Also, Mulligan Stew is made for cats and dogs. Another one I found I could feed just the dog formula to both is Instinct Healthy Weight. Theirs applies to both canned and their Healthy Weight Raw Boost kibble! HOWEVER, a Shepherd is considered a large breed, if I’m not mistaken, and large breed puppies have specific nutritional requirements. It would seem to me that cat food does not meet those requirements. They need special calcium to phosphorus ratios to grow properly. I’m certainly not an expert, as I have small dogs and one cat, but I have learned this. I’m sure others will post that are experts on the subject of large breed puppies. Btw, there is a list on this site/forum of foods that would work for large breed puppies and have the correct nutritional content. Good luck to you!

[angelrecruiter]

Well over the past 20 years of loosing to larger dogs to cancer and not loosing smaller dogs im convinced that dog food of all kind not cat food is contaminated with a host of germs, mites, deseases and the list goes on my smaller dogs have only ever been fed cat food or what im eating.i coduced my own experiment and fedall the dog 100% beef for 1 week and there coat was shinning there muscles were everdent their eyes clear and they had energy to burn and they were much more alert. Try it you will see for your self we now have a new shepherd puppy and gets the new diet and her coat is soft and smells loverly and is never hungry it goes a long way..just my opinions but id rather feed them food for human consumption why whould you give a dog or animal food you wouldnt eat your selve that just sends me red flags. Doesn’t it to u?

[Sharon Buchanan]

Freed1 ~
You can see the entire 5-star list of foods here: /dog-food-reviews/dry/5-star/.

My opinion is that Orijen is the best dry food, whether you are feeding puppy, large breed puppy or adult. It is however, more expensive that the average brand you find at Petsmart.

[Sharon Buchanan]

Jazz ~
Sorry I didn’t get back to you yesterday. It’s been a madhouse around here with my oldest daughter moving out yesterday, me trying to finish some reading on raw diets so I can order some food before tomorrow and trying to find the right adoptable Golden for my husband.

I appreciate that RescueDaneMom jumped in to give you some very good advice. Pattyvaughn is another great resource as are any number of people more qualified than I.

Although some of the papers from the Great Dane study indicate that a 6 month old LBP could effectively absorb calcium, I have to agree with GDM that waiting at least until 10 months to switch to a higher calcium diet is better. I would however, still feed LBP kibble until full grown, up to 2 years old – you’ll know when your pup has reached that point.

I did switch Mystery to Orijen, Large Breed Puppy a month or so ago and if I hadn’t gone raw I’d have fed it until he was at least 16 months old. I wouldn’t have moved to Acana LBP because their MINIMUM calcium is 1.6%, Orijen is 1.2/1.5 min/max. Some of the Acana Regionals recipes have a similar low minimum calcium of 1.2% but they don’t say what their max is. Additionally, the protein content is lower than Orijen LBP. For comparison’s sake – Orijen LBP and both adult formulas contain 14 proteins and then starches follow. Acana Wild Prairie 2 proteins then a starch while their Grasslands is a bit better at 4. 80% of Orijen’s ingredients are protein, Acana is 60%. Of the other foods that RDM listed, I have opinions on all of them, but you can do further comparisons.

IF I were going to continue into adult kibble, I would absolutely have stayed with any variety of adult Orijen and would have felt very good about my decision. All five cats are eating Orijen with the youngest, a five month old Maine Coon stealing a few ounces of Mystery’s raw. I spent a lot of time researching pedigrees and genetics and food so that we could avoid, to every extent possible, a repeat of the $10,000 it cost us to have double-hip surgery on Sunset before she was two and three months of 24/7 in-clinic therapy to teach her how to walk again. I’m by no means an expert, but I can read and the more I do, the better I feel about my food choices, and why I switched to Orijen at 9 months and then raw so soon after at 10 months.

I wholly agree with RDM on turmeric. Mystery is enrolled in the Morris Foundation’s lifetime study on the relationship between cancer and Golden Retrievers and since we just lost Sunset to cancer, I feel a duty to do everything I can keep Mystery from getting cancer. I do purchase some supplements from Swanson and I’ve had Mystery on Springtime’s Longevity but I’m not certain I will continue that. I do agree with your decision to limit supplements since most kibble already contain a variety of supplements – I recently read an article on supplement overkill. If I can dig that article up I’ll let you know.

I also give Mystery raw eggs on occasion. It’s my understanding that the shell of the egg has a perfect balance of calcium to phosphorus. So if you’re still feeding a low calcium kibble and you want to add a bit more without switching to a higher calcium food, break an egg! I usually break it over a bowl, break up the shell a bit with my hands and pour it over his food. He gets the same eggs I eat – Born Free, Vegetarian without the added omegas or any other organic, free-range brown egg when Born Free is unavailable.

One more note – Susan Thixton had her site truthaboutpetfood.com hacked a couple years ago and so opened another site adding a “2” to the end. The problem finally resolved, she’s moved everything back over to truthaboutpetfood.com but is in the process of cleaning things up – hopefully that will be finished soon. Keep checking back, sign up for her newsletter or “Like” her on Facebook. She’s worth following.

Whew! 😉

[Akari_32]

Hey guys! Bentley is once again having itching problems as the weather stars to warm back up. We aren’t sure if it’s chicken, grains, grass, fleas or a combination of any of these. He’s constantly chewing his feet and tummy, and scratching his neck and chest, and his skin is bright red all over his body.

We’ve got a little (really little) problem with fleas in the yard, and he gets maybe 3 or so a day just from going out side. I wouldn’t think it’s enough to cause a problem unless he’s allergic to them. He’s on Trifexis, which kills the fleas after they bite. We have stuff to treat the yard, as well that we are going to try. He does get pretty decent sized welts, but that could be from fire ants (the dog is pretty stupid– he likes to play with ants), so it’s hard to say.

As for food, he used to be on the red meat Innova Prime before the recall. And before that we tried just about every brand and meat/grain combination all sorts of brands there is in the area, ending with chicken without grain, and non-chicken with grain, just to be sure. We finally settled on no chicken and no grain as it caused him to itch less and his skin looked better, and used $10 off any size bag Innova coupons, which is the only way we could have afforded it at the time. He’s been doing good since then so I figured I’d try him back on chicken, and he did good for a month or so, so I tried him back on grain. For the last 3 weeks maybe, he’s been on half and half, grain free and grain inclusive, with mixed protein sources, and it doesn’t seem to help much, but it has helped some.

We aren’t really sure on the grass allergy either, as it all started to die off for the winter when it occurred to us it could be grass/weed pollen and started taking precautions for that as well (wiping him down with a baby wipe after going outside). But now the grass is starting to grow back, so I’ll have to see about that.

So basically, we have all of these possible irritants back all at once, and we are back to where we were last year: he’s chewed his back legs almost bald, he’s scratching himself raw on his chest and neck, and his sole purpose in life is to chew the bottom of his feet.

Since fleas and grass are easy to take care of (sort of), I need some help on picking a food. The only catch is, it has to come from Pet Supermarket. It’s the only place close that isn’t a grocery store. AND…. Around here it’s pretty much either Natura or Diamond for (“good”) grain free. Lucky me. Being so close to the South Carolina plant (I live in Florida), I have my reserves about feeding Diamond products, but he’s been on most of the TOTW formulas and my other dogs have been on Kirkland with no issues. Here’s my list:

Wellness CORE Wildgame
Taste of the Wild High Prairie PUPPY
Taste of the Wild Sierra Mountain
EVO Red Meat Small Bites
Innova Natures Table Beef and Red Lentils (doesn’t appear to be available here yet, but I’d like to hear thoughts on it)

He doesn’t like fish, and it makes his breath smell nasty, or else I’d be able to add the CORE Ocean Fish in there, too. I was looking at Blue Buffalo, despite what ever they’re going through right now, but I’m fairly sure all their grain free foods have chicken, don’t they? Any thing else to add that Pet Supermarket carries?

If you could just pick one, because the chances of mom rotating are slim, which would you pick? And what are your top three, if I can get her to? And thoughts or concerns about any of these? Any other tips as far as natural flea treatments, itching relief, and whatever else goes are also greatly appreciated!

[Sharon Buchanan]

BernerdAd ~
Just wanted to ditto Patty’s recommendation on pumpkin. It isn’t something I care to eat, but I keep a single can in my pantry just in case. When I have to open it up, another can goes on the grocery list.

Lablubber ~
I can’t remember if I read anywhere the age of your Lab. There’s a number of articles that HDM posted at the very beginning of this topic that address the correct percentage of calcium for large breed puppies. The figures vary somewhat, I chose to take the advice of Dr. Baker and keep Mystery’s calcium nearer to .80 percent. (My Mystery is an English Creme Golden Retriever – healthy adult weight will be about 85 pounds.)

I hadn’t found this forum when I was researching food so I ended up creating my own chart. I looked at calcium percentage as well as ingredients. I wasn’t going to feed junk (by-products, un-named meat meals, synthetic supplements, controversial ingredients – canola oil for one), no matter what the calcium percentage was. But I also wasn’t going to feed what I thought was the best kibble (no preservatives, no grains), if the calcium was higher than I believed it should be. I would have like to have been feeding Mystery Orijen or Acana but their calcium max for LBP is 1.5%. Though they say they try to keep it to the minimum 1%, they’d be okay feeding my dog nearly twice what he should’ve gotten. In the end, I chose Innova LBP kibble.

A simple explanation of the problem with too much calcium is, that a LBP less than six months old does not have the ability to process excess calcium properly. Too much calcium gets deposited on the outside of the bones which then causes bone disease. Again, this is the simple explanation – try reading all the articles HDM posted, some of them are a little more technical, but you’ll learn a lot from them. And don’t expect your vet to be familiar with the LBP study or any of the reports from that study. My vet said he wasn’t sure if he’d read any of them when I first mentioned diet concerns – and tried to make me feel like I couldn’t possibly know what I was talking about.

Back to the age of your Lab. Once a puppy has reached six months of age, he is able to process calcium better but even afterward, calcium still needs to be lower than what a small or medium size puppy can handle. I moved Mystery to Orijen LBP kibble just last month when he was 9 months old. To address your concern regarding transitioning foods, when Mystery’s Innova got down to the last pound, I added a pound of Orjen to it. When that was gone a few days later, it was all Orijen.

As far as expense goes, I considered Innova to be an average priced kibble – compared to Purina, Iams, Science Diet, or any other junk food. Orijen, on the other hand is going to cost more but is worth it – as far as kibble goes. Innova did have a recall last year at the time that I was feeding it to Mystery. I was forced to switch him over to Wellness – the next lowest calcium percentage, but I cringed at every meal because chicken meal is their third ingredient rather than first, and they use Sodium Selenite instead of Selenium Yeast. It looks like Innova has changed their LBP recipe – I don’t know what I’d do now if my only option to feed was kibble to a LBP.

BTW, when Innova had their recall, I had no choice but to switch Mystery to Wellness – without any transition. And my cats have never needed transitioning as I’ve upgraded their food. Obviously, common sense must rule if you see a problem cropping up because of the change.

I have to agree with Patty on Blue. In addition to their minimum calcium percentage being too high, they have three grains in their top five ingredients, they add chicken FLAVOR (why do they need flavoring?), sodium selenite and caramel which is used to make you, the purchaser feel good about the color of their garbage, as if your dog thinks caramel colored food tastes better than beige food. I also don’t like seeing oil of rosemary so high on their ingredient list since we had a Golden that had seizures (if your dog doesn’t have seizures rosemary oil/extract might not be a problem).

In retrospect, I should have started feeding Mystery raw when we first brought him home at 10 weeks instead of waiting until now when he is 10 months old. You will absolutely learn much here at dogfoodadvisor and especially in the forums. I would also suggest, if you have to continue feeding kibble, go to truthaboutpetfood.com and sign up for her free newsletter. She’s also on Facebook if you prefer. I will say though, that I credit Susan Thixton (truthaboutpetfood), with my decision to pursue a raw diet. Of course, it was here at the forums that I received the most encouragement to switch.

• This reply was modified 12 years, 1 month ago by Sharon Buchanan.

[Lablubber]

Hi KMS

Thank you once again for your reply on the vaccinations and yes i know this is a nutrition forum for large breed dogs and I have most of the tinme been talking about it buit it just came to mind while I was typing so I asked anyway, since all of your longtimers seem so well versed and have educated yourself in the finer points of truly raising your dog right… So thank you for your reply…. It is very much appreciated…

Then Patty, thank you also for your reply…. I know that written word is the poorest form of communication there is and you grossly misunderstood my intentions in my words because if you have read my other posts, I happen to think all of you are very informative and also very wise in your area of expertise. I actually switched off of the dog food my breeder had my pup on because of a post I think Hound Dog Mom made and I don’t know where in the world off of here that I got the idea to use Blue but it has made a world of difference in his coat, his stool conformity and he has yet to have the first issue with the Chicken and Rice Lg. Breed Puppy Food.

As far as the raw diet goes, I have no issue with anyone using it and believe me had I not seen first hand several issues myself with it, then I assure you for my pup, I would doing whatever it takes to have him on it and besides even the people I knew that had the issue may have not used the raw diet in the prop[er way or had the strict regime of ingredients like you guys do.

Believe me if I didn’t agree with anything you sauid or thought that you didn’t know what you were talking about….i sure would not have changed my whole way of thinking and I would still be using milk replacer in my puppy chow and facing hip or elbow issues down the road.

I came here to be educated by people like you and hound dog mom and all of the year of wisdom that is formed and madeup by in this forum. And then boom you hit me with another shot in your last reply and told me Blue had too much calcium as well and I just finished a 20 day transition over to it for my dog.

I swear someone on here told me it was one of the top 25 foods to feed a large breed puppy. So excuse me if I upset you by using the poorest form of communication there is because there was nothing intended wrongly for any of you. Because I am disciple of all of you and intend to remain so if you guys don’t shun me out for poor wording.

So with that said… Can I just plainly, country boy ask you what you would feed a labrador retriever pup that means the world to you if you don’t feel comfortable with going the raw way just yet?

One other thing I would also like to ask about supplimentation is with all of the stomach cancer issue that so many older dogs are facing… Has any of you ever added Tumeric or Curcumin to your dogs diet because I can tell you for a fact and even MD Anderson Hospital finally admitted that they have found that it actually kills cancer cells and then acts as an outright cancer fighting addition to your diet… My boss had Multiple Myeloma (Bone Cancer) and he was in stage 4 when they found it and then through nutritional changes and lots of prayer, he is a documented walking miracle. Needless to say his whole staff now takes tumeric/curcumin everyday… And my pup get a 1/2 capsule everyday as well, until I find out it is bad thing for him which I don’t think I will from what I have read. In fact I am going to write Texas A&M Vet. School to make sure that it will not and if not what dosage I could give him to be a correct amount for his system. I personally think it will make him cancer immune in his old age. I have had skin cancers on my arm dissolve and dissappear after just a few month of taking 3 capsules a day of it every day.

So I am sorry if I ruffled anyone up because I truly did not mean to do so because I respect and enjoy reading every single thing you guys write. I read it every day and every night religiously. I just thought it was kindly strange that everyone was replying to all the posts done after mine and not a thing toward mine at all… You know what assuming does but anything I aksed is asked geniunnely because I don’t know and really want someone more educated and wise to step up and help me out… This puppy means the world to me and so I only want the best for him even if I have to swallow a lot of stuff that I didn’t know I was doing wrong on.

So thanks for your reply and I look forward tolearning much more from all of you on this forum.

The Lablubber

So thank you for all of your help and wisdom and please continue what you are doing for all of us newbies to the real world of pet nutrition.

[lmnordrum]

I am new to puppydom but I did learn quite a bit about my own dog’s digestive system when trying to find her things to chew on. We feed Wellness Core Puppy with great success and I also have some Earthborn Holistic Meadow Feast which I give a handful for lunch. (Pup is a Giant Schnauzer, born 10/21, and I also use the Earthborn for training.) I decided that pig ears would be a convenient and inexpensive way for my dog to while away her time and not gnaw on furniture. Silly me…

While many puppy parents are focusing on the actual food when there’s a problem, what I learned was that pig ears are loaded with fat (and god knows what other stuff because they’ve been treated and salted). My pup had some loose stool towards the end of her BMs, and I mentioned it to the trainer in puppy class and she immediately pegged it as pig ears. Once I stopped the ears and substituted them with a good old fashioned bone and an antler, the loose stool went away immediately. The frequency of the BMs became more normal too, about two hours after a meal with appropriate consistency.

So if you’re feeding a good food and having strange digestive issues with the dog towards the end of a BM you might want to look at the treats/chewies/snacks. I use real meat (cooked) for puppy school and when we’re doing obedience, and regular kibble. No more pig ears here, and I doubt I’m going to try bully sticks for the dog either. I’m a label reader for my own food, and also read what’s in dog treats and think most of this stuff is junk. When I did the pig ears I did so at the recommendation of the boutique pet store, and these were not processed in China and were deemed “Natural”. Silly me, I thought I was just getting a baked pig ear, and it didn’t even occur to me that it would have a lot of fat or salt. Like our own diets, when we eat a lot of fat it comes out the other end, which is exactly what happened with my dog.

I have learned a lot from this group and this might help someone.

LN

[BernerdAd]

Need Advice on solving a loose stool, sometimes Diarrehria problem that is NOT being caused by intestinal infection.

My dog is 20week old Bernese Mountain Dog – About 3 weeks ago he an attach of diarrheria – Up to this time he had been regular like clockwork and normal stools since he was 8wks old. He is being feed Blue Mountain Freedom (Grain Free Chicken ALS)

So I took him to the vet who put him on metronidazole 250mg 2x a day and a probiotic supplement. his stool sample came up negative. For food we switched to rice and boiled chicken breast –. Diarrhea cleared up but he still had loose stools – Vet then prescribed IAMs intestinal pro puppy version PLUS another round of metronidazole and probiotics — For things to get somewhat normal (stools normally shaped but like sausage) I have to fed 2/3 Iams and 1/3 Blue Mt Freedom. Now every time I start moving to 1/2 or 1/3 Iams and 2/3 Blue Mt – he stool gets softer.

Now I am thinking I need to try changing out his dog food and want to switch to Canine Caviar Open Sky — I wrote to them about their reccomendation to immediately transition to their food and not do it gradually — they wrote back saying ”

So I am looking for some help about how to problem solve this situation. I like our vet a lot but since the diarrhea is intermittent and he only has loose stools he feels it will just sort itself out.

[Sharon Buchanan]

Sue’s Zoo ~

I am a nanobyte of information away from going raw. I spent two months researching the best kibble to buy for my Golden puppy and now I’ve spent another eight months researching the best way to feed my growing boy and have come to the conclusion that raw is the way to go. Unfortunately, I am also concerned about balancing not only calcium and phosphorus but everything else, protein, veggies, supplements.

Being at a similar point in the raw decision as you (everyone makes it out to be no big deal but it is intimidating nevertheless), the best I can offer is to share a few things I’ve learned along the way and hope it’s helpful.

Having had a Golden that required double-hip surgery before she was two, proper bone growth was a huge concern for me. If you’ve been to the LBP nutrition forum (/forums/topic/large-and-giant-breed-puppy-nutrition/#post-33156), you’ve probably already read some of the suggestions that Hound Dog Mom posted at the beginning of the thread. If you haven’t, do – It would’ve saved me a lot of research time if I’d found the forum ten months ago. Although I waded through the technical jargon in many of the articles, I found the article by Baker most useful and objective. Now that Mystery is 10 months old, I’m allowing more calcium in his diet than Baker’s recommended .8%. I’ve changed his kibble to one with a higher calcium content (from Innova to Orijen), and have started giving him an occasional RMB and raw egg (yeah, puppy steps).

I can’t speak to whether a puppy should eat raw bones until their adult teeth are in except to say that when I asked my breeder about food choices, I was told he starts giving his puppies chicken backs at six months.

As far as balanced nutrition goes, I’ve considered “balanced” frozen raw brands but they really are expensive and there’s much debate as to whether they’re safe. I’ve read so much conflicting, contradictory and even argumentative information that I have to take a few days off research just to clear my head. Sometimes I wonder if I’ll ever get my Mystery off kibble.

That said, I did find an Internet conference (what will they think of next), on feeding raw that is hosted by Dogs Naturally Magazine. You can find more information here: http://www.dogsnaturallymagazine.com/raw-roundup/. It isn’t until the end of the month but I’ve already registered and am hopeful to glean that last nanobyte of information so that Mystery will be eating only raw in March.

[Lablubber]

Hi it’s me again..

I have almost completely finished transitioning over from the food my breeder had my pup on to Blue Chicken and Rice Large Breed Puppy Food with nothing but good results. I have taken a little over a month and 4 days to accomplish that in and his stool are solid and no stomach issues…. Right now I am at 80 % transition 80% BLue/20% Purina Puppy Chow Lg. Breed Food. Right now I am also adding a teaspoon of coconut oil, a teaspoon of ground flaxseed and some fish oil, about 1000mg.

I am not using any toppers except at night for his supper meal and that is canned Blue Puupy Food about a 1/5th to 1/4th of a can. And his coat is shiny and he seems to be doing very well on it…

But for me where my problem arises is from me reading and listening to all of you guys….I almost feel like if I am not alternating out a bunch of different foods and using different kinds of toppers and adding numerous supplements to his food, then it makes me feel like I am shortchanging my dog???

And please believe me….. I have not spared any expense on my part that I know of concerning him and I really do not want to do the raw diet because I have had too many people I know who have had their dogs, get serious bacterial infections from it and some have even died from sluffing off their intestinal lining and dying of anemia before they could be saved by IV feeding and a harsh round of antibiotics.

So for me….This particular dog is just way too valuable for me to ever chance that and believe me I am not here to make any enemies by saying that but I just want you know my logic behind what I am doing with him so far. But then I also have to say this as well and something that I have found out in life myself and some wise words of wisdom and that is this…. Just because someone does something different or feels differently about another idea or approach to your particular way of doing things….Doesn’t neccessarily make them wrong….It just makes them different…! There i said it…My sermon for the day….

So anyway I took painstakingly long with my Labrador Retriever pup after listening to all of you guys and even forsaking what my vet said and changed over to a food that I read about and researched over for many hours and also a food that I had access to, to buy very readily, that I didn’t have to worry about ever running out of even where some of the online food stood the chance of having weather related delays in shipping, that it would not be running. And so I chose a food that I have seen proven to do well with my friend’s large breed dogs. And then I made a just a very few additions to the food, just to make me feel better.

I did as all of you said ion here and I cut out the milk replacer that I had always feed my pups for the first six months of their lives and longer is I saw the need to do so and I did thatimmediately. So anyway…He appears to be doing extremely well. Although he had to have several surgeries yesterday because he had a slight hernia that had to be repaired from a overzealous Lab mother licking him over and over all the time and never letting his navel ever truly heal up right. The he also had a dewclaw removed that either regrew or was missed by the breeder’s vet originally and he also had a place on his leg that had been cut while he was young at the breeder’s kennel that did not grow back right and so my vet did a little cosmetic repair there as well while he was out at no charge and she also micro-chipped him as well while he was out due to the fact that she hates to stick such a big needles in pups at that age if she can help it and so she prefers to have them out at the time of insertion and so she did that procedure as well..

So needless to say, my little fellow was exceptionally glad to see me when he I cam to pick him up….. He came home though like the walking wounded with a front leg dewclaw removed, a back leg, scar tissue repair, a hernia repair and a microchip inserted just at his shoulders along with an antibotic shot just above it, wearing an Elizabethen (sp.) collar to boot, so he was not a very happy puppy last night…. And today he is wired to a tee at work with me here today, needless to say.

So now for the advice part part….. Is the extra stuff I add to his food….The tsp. of coconut oil, the fish oil (which will be changed over to Krill oil when it gets here) and a teaspoon of ground flaxseed meal added to his food twice a day… Does all of that sound good to the ones in the know on here to be adding to his food or is that an over-kill???

Then on the medical part or at least the vaccination part of his regime…. He has had 3 series of shots so far… And I plan on having one more done just to be on the safe side, although my vet. says the 3 completes his regime. Plus he still has his Rabies shot coming up as well…. So does that suffice for his puppy shots being complete or is there anything more I need to be checking into???

I have read quite a few vets who did not reccomend them getting coronavirus or leptospirosis shots anymore(As well as my own vet feels the same way). But for me…Jess will be competing in AKC and UKC Hunter Retriever Trials and therefore he will be around a whole lot of other dogs in close proximity, so I just want to make sure that I have all of my bases covered with him as far as shots, intranasal and any other immunizations that he might need.

I am going to look into get his Lyme and Botedella vaccinations as well, but what is you guys thoughts on a working retriever and his vaccination requirements???

So that is about it today and I know i write very long but I figure if I don’t know, I never will without asking… So thank you for your patience…

Lablubber

[chrsplummer]

Looking for advice, I have a Chi puppy 6 months old and I have been feeding her Pedigree Puppy. Now before you all go into fits I fed my two Yorkies Pedigree their whole lives with out issue they lived to be 18 and 20. Pedigree is not cutting it for my Chi she eats and eats but looks emaciated, I’m guessing while part of that is the look of the breed (she is still a pup) and I am used to a dog with tons of hair, I’m thinking maybe Pedigree doesn’t have what she needs, you breed specific. So I get on this site and wow now my head wants to explode! Okay not really but it confirms that little speedy gonzala here needs a meatier less grainy food. Costco is down the street and I’m really not recognizing any of the other names on the lists (didn’t look lower then 4 star), I don’t have tons of spare money either. The last question anyone know how it freezes? Come on 40 pound bag of dog food 4 pound dog by the time we get to the bottom or even half way it’s got to be getting stale but I’m not tasting it to find out! Thanks all and Luna says Thanks too!

[Rambunctious]

I’m confused. No surprise!

I thought it was optimal to feed some of a can on top of kibble to aid in digestion or something. (For those who are feeding commercial) As much as I like THK- it’s not an option for us to feed that right now. We’re getting a labradoodle that we expect to hit about 55lbs in a bit over a month. I understand that it’s optimal to also rotate food. So, we were thinking of rotating dr.Tim’s kinesis (order online) and fromm’s gold puppy which we can get locally. I thought we should add a bit of wet food to each meal to moisten and provide a bit extra protein. I’m a little lost on where to find a decently priced wet. And if my plan sounds decent? 55lbs is on edge of large breed and I don’t want to mess her up if I should be looking else where.
I appreciate all the feedback!

[gsdmommy89]

Hi Rescue Dane Mom and anyone else

I haven’t tried Wellness on him. Personally for me (and this is my experience as I’ve worked in a Mom and Pops pet food store) big breed dogs don’t switch well to Wellness if not started very young. I wanted to try the Fromm Grain Free, but it is pricey in my opinion. His brother is not picky at all. He gets extremely excited when it’s feeding time no matter what he’s getting. As a matter of fact, his brother contracted Parvo at the beginning of October last year. After he recovered from it, that’s how he’s been with food. Overly excited. But my dog used to be like that, especially when he was a young puppy on Fromm. I’m not completely ruling out online ordering, but I feel better when I can physically touch the bag and read it before buying it. I feel limited also since there are so many 5 and 4 star foods that my local retailer carries but aren’t on HDM’s list. I figured I should just suck it up these 3 weeks that I still have left for him to turn 8 months so I can really expand into different foods like Merrick and other flavors of Nature’s Variety.

[gsdmommy89]

Hi everyone. I’m not new to this forum, but I do need some advice. I have a 7 month old GSD and I’ve only fed him from HDM’s list. I first started him on Fromm Large Breed Puppy from the age of 2 months til about 4.5 months. He ate all of it from his bowl but had very loose stools even with pumpkin mixed in and bad gas. I then switched him to Nature’s Variety LID Turkey thinking maybe since it was a bland ingredient list his stomach and stools would settle but he didn’t even touch it. Too bland I guess. I went back and exchanged it for the Nature’s Variety Large Breed Puppy which he ate willingly but when I went to pour the bag into my Vittles Vault I noticed it was expired so I went and took it back to get a new bag but was told that food doesn’t really move so the only bag on the shelf was expired, too. Bummer. I settled for NutriSource Large Breed Puppy and the first few bowls he ate ok, but then began turning his nose up to it. I tried a different approach and went for the Earthborn Holistic Coastal Catch. Success! He ate it willingly and his stools firmed up nicely. The first bag went by and he ate it all up with no problem. Half way through the second bag I noticed he wasn’t going for it as excitedly as he used to. I bought a third bag anyway. Now I’m struggling to get him to eat it. I have to mix it with gravy for him to even touch it. My boyfriend has his brother and he feeds him Earthborn Holistic Meadow Feast and I grabbed two cups from his to try with my dog. I gave it to him replacing his regular morning meal without gravy and although he ate it, it wasn’t as happily as I’d hoped for. I’m at a loss now. Has anyone had this problem? What solution did you find? I’m sorry I’ve made this long. I don’t want to keep mixing gravy and wouldn’t like to introduce wet. Don’t want to make him pickier than what he already seems to be. I was looking at Annamaet but I live in Los Angeles and no retailers carry it here. I’m not a fan of ordering online, I’d much prefer to drive and get my food. I’m also hesitating on switching back to grain inclusive as his poop is firm on grain free. My head just doesn’t function right at this point. Any pointers? I don’t even know if I’m asking this question in the right place

[RescueDaneMom]

Jazz Lover,

The general consensus is that puppies can start regulating calcium uptake around 8-10 months old. To play is really safe you could wait until 1 year.

Read this for an understanding of what “all life stages” means: /frequently-asked-questions/aafco-nutrient-profiles/

Essentially you can feed an “all life stages” food to a puppy because it is approved for growth and reproduction as well as adult maintenance. A lot of the labels on foods (ie large breed puppy, large breed adult, senior, etc) is just marketing. If pet food companies really knew what they were doing in formulating dog foods, there would be a lot more “large breed puppy” foods on the list. If I were you, I would not get caught up on the label. You don’t have to feed a food specifically for a large breed puppy or large breed adult. You need to make sure it is approved by AAFCO for growth and reproduction (aka puppy food) or all life stages.

I had to google FCP surgery. This was done to correct elbow dysplasia? As far as supplements go, I have heard the same. You don’t want to give supplements until they are done growing. I think you’d be safe starting them at 1 year. Does your vet have an opinion on this? I think you are ok with giving the salmon oil as long as you account for the calories that it adds. How much you feed will depend on the body condition of your dog. It is hard to say how much his metabolism will slow down. I would just watch his form and if he looks like he’s getting chunky, cut back on the food. If he starts to look too skinny, increase his food. Refer to the body condition chart in the Dr. Becker article I posted previously. I keep my dog lean because he is older and has arthritis. It is much easier on the joints.

Bottom line- if I were you I would continue to feed a food on HDM’s list and hold off on additional supplements until 1 year or per your vet’s instructions. I hope that is helpful to you.

[RescueDaneMom]

There are 3 reasons why the grain-inclusive Great Life didn’t make the list:
1- the calcium was too high.
2- the food is not 4 stars or above.
3- they didn’t respond to HDM’s inquiry about their actual calcium levels.

I’m not sure which one it was, but HDM said that if I food wasn’t on the list then it was because of one of the above reasons.

What are you still searching for? I would not be afraid to use the Wellness Core or NVI Turkey. I have to concur with Patty. The issue with growing large breed puppies is not protein. They need to grow slow and not have too much calcium. HDM has figured out the calcium for us with her list. As for slow growth, they can grow slow on high protein/high calorie foods but you can NOT overfeed them. If they get too many calories and grow too fast then you will run into problems. Regarding how much to feed- yes, you would feed less of a high protein/grain-free food because it has more calories. Those foods tend to be more calorically dense because they have more meat which means more fat and fat contains double the amount of calories as protein. If you fed a grain-inclusive the calories would probably be lower because there are more carbs (from the grains) and less fat. So you could feed more of a grain-inclusive. It depends on the dog. I had a rottie (passed last month from cancer) that acted hungry all the time no matter what food he was eating, grain-free or grain-inclusive. I suspect labs can be the same way. If I were you, I would start feeding the Wellness or NVI Turkey and see how he does on them. If he does well then great! Add those to a rotation list. Then you can try a grain-inclusive like Dr. Tim’s Kinesis and see how he does. If he does well on both types of food then I see no real reason to why he can’t eat grain-inclusive. You can alternate between grain-free and grain-inclusive foods.

That’s my 2 cents. I hope it helps alleviate some of the confusion. Here is a great article about large breed puppy growth by Dr. Karen Becker: http://healthypets.mercola.com/sites/healthypets/archive/2012/04/09/slow-growth-diets-for-giant-breed-puppy.aspx I feel like this is a great summary of what this whole thread is about and it explains it much better than I can.