Sorry I had to rant. I just get sick of it sometimes. Did I mention that after my post was deleted that one of the moderators mentioned Dog Gone Pain that has the exact same anti-inflammatory supplements I had mentioned! Good Lord!!!!!!!!
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This reply was modified 12 years, 9 months ago by
DieselJunki.
It was Deana. She’s fine now. Cut her back to 1/2 a tablespoon and that fixed it. Everyone is doing wonderfully! I’m not usually the type to buy into the “cure-all” hype, but my 9 year old, who has had arthritis since he came to me at 2 (old injury) is running and hopping like a pup. Everyone’s poo is NORMAL! I have one that I’ve battled runny poo off and on forever (and we’ve exhausted all medical reasons). Never diarrhea, never solid–regardless of food, eliminated foods, medicines, supplements, etc.
Good luck on that treadmill. A trainer friend of mine (she rehabs former fighting pitties, actually) relies heavily on her treadmill and swears by it. Never can get any of mine to use it. Well, Grammer does. He rides it like a carnival ride. Run run run WHEEE! Fling off the end into the side of the couch. Run Run Run WHEEEE!
If you’re looking for quality/budget friendly supplements I’d highly recommend checking out Swanson’s. I started ordering all my supplements and my dog’s supplements there. They have a wonderful selection and the prices are unbelievable. I’ve been able to cut my costs for my dogs’ meals (I feed homemade raw) by so much – paying top dollar for supplements really adds up.
I hear you about the cost of the supplements. I bought a small jar of coconut oil at the local coop just to see if I liked it. Fortunately Costco carries a giant tub of organic extra virgin for 20$ so we will be getting it there in the future.
HDM….Wholistic Pet is of my favorite supplements, too. I used to use their Joint Health for my Shih-Poo, Desi, who had both rear luxating patellas. I also swear by Springtime, Inc.’s Joint Health chews. He never had to have surgery, though he died younger than he should’ve from other things š
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This reply was modified 12 years, 9 months ago by
Mom2Cavs.
I’ve used Wholistic Pet Organics products in the past – as far as pet supplements go, I think they’re about as high quality as it gets. They’re very pricey though, you could get a human product for much cheaper.
Hello again, I have been on the site many times since my last post and was hoping to get some more help again. Since my last post I took Dawson off Big Country Raw, I wasnt impressed with there customer service, most of the time my questions were brushed off and when I would place my order they seemed annoyed. Plus I found some things in the dinners I was not impressed with. So shortly after Dawson had a “sickness” episode (he was no longer on BCR) he vomited like 20 times before noon, and it was just bile. He was extremely lethargic and wouldnt eat or drink anything, but his bloodwork was relatively normal and in 2 days he was starting to be back to himself. He started drinking water on the 3rd day then the next day his appetite was back.Im fairly certain it was the freshpet he was eating that made him sick. After that episode I was afraid to start him back on raw, so I ordered in some ziwipeak air dried which he absolutely LOVES! Then once he was feeling better, i fed him ziwipeak in them am and then canned in the pm, I wanted to give him a meal with moisture in it like his raw meals. I switched his canned out for Grandma Lucy’s Artisan which he likes, and I like some things about it but its not ideal.
he has been doing well on that, but there is an Irish Wolfhound breeder at school who feeds her (very large,lol) gang raw. When we went to visit her and her wolfhound she had at school (who Dawson loved, I guess he likes the Big Girls, lol) she gave Dawson a tripe and veggie mixture to take home and try. Well He loves that and his tummy has seemed to be ok on it, which is what I had been worried about, so I was thinking about starting him back on raw, but im still nervous. I was also thinking of continuing his ziwipeak in the am, and trying the orijen freeze dried for his pm meal, but I was wondering if that would be too much fat for him to handle? He walks 2x a day, but I worry about inducing pancreatitis in him. Plus I like that the meats are free-range, antibiotic, hormone free. For raw the best I could probably do for a while would be grocery store as I cant seem to find organic free-range around here. At least until I can find a good source of meat… I really want free-range, antibiotic free meats for his tiny body, unless its ok for him to have typical “store bought” meats? If you think raw is still the best option I would like to prepare it myself this time around.
Sorry for the extremely long post, you guys are such a wealth of knowledge and the vets at school are very pro-Hills, Iams types. I really do like ziwipeak and so does Dawson, but I also want to feed him a meal with moisture in it as I think thats important too. Any input would be greatly appreciated! If you think is current diet is really decent, or if the ziwipeak, orijen freeze dried would be excellent for him, or if raw still would be the best (perhaps for his pm meal) even with store bought meats. And if you think of anything else that might help him after hissickness`supplements, tips etc. Thanks in advance, and hope you are all enjoying the long weekend!
For going all raw a lot of places suggest fasting and switching cold turkey. I still feed some kibble due to the rest of the family being squeamish, so I started by using raw as a topper for kibble, then increasing the amount.
As far as supplements go, if you are feeding whole prey, head and all, everything your dog needs should be in there. Any part that is missing takes away some necessary nutrients. Even then, due to pollution and environmental factors, I still want my dog to get extra antioxidants.
Thanks for the advice! It is just that some raw feeders feed raw with a whole lot of supplements, some feed with less supplements and then others say no to supplements. I guess I just want to make sure I don’t over do it or under do it. I know I am probably over analyzing this, but I know that raw fed incorrectly can be detrimental to a dogs health. But since my dogs are still eating mostly kibble, should I just switch one meal per day with raw and then after a week or so switch all to raw? Or just fast one night and then start raw cold turkey?
I talked with a co-worker of mine this morning and have decided not to go with the premixes. I found a local butcher that can order meat in bulk and it is not very expensive. He told me to feed 80% muscle, 10% bone and 10% organ. Is this a correct ratio? It’s not that I don’t believe him, but I thought I read somewhere else online to feed only 5% organ meat. Would a whole chicken (neck and insides included), a turkey neck and a whole fish be considered one single meal for a 115 pound dog? I have 2 other dogs, 60 pounds and 20 pounds, so I know I can just figure out the amounts to feed them based on how much I feed my 115 pound dog. I just don’t know how to formulate a meal. I know how much, in pounds, to feed based on the 2-3% of body weight and I know it is beneficial to fast them one day per week. I just don’t know how to plan the meals out right now and that is what is worrying me. Would I even need fish oil if I feed fresh frozen fish 2-3 times per week? Would I even need any other supplements or will the diet cover that?
Actually I would purchase one in an amount that could be used up in 3 months because they can become “old” with exposure to oxygen and light. My bottle of Nature’s Logic sardine oil suggests that. You would need to look at the dosages for the glucosamine and chondroitin per serving of oil to compare it to some other plain supplements and see if there would be enough. You can also alternate types of fish oils instead of using just one type. Right now I’m using krill and sardine oils.
Can anyone offer suggestions/experience/advice if vitamin or other supplements are necessary to add to a raw diet and mixed 5 star wet and 5 star kibble for a Vizsla puppy. This will be my 3rd Vizsla – want to start off doing things as best as I can this time now that I have learned more information (scared about what I didn’t know before – its no wonder the first two died of cancer). I’m all for preparing most of the raw diet recipes I’ve seen and then interchanging with some of the higher end 5 star wet and dry mixes but I don’t want to overlook any nutritional supplements that may be inadvertently left out – especially at the puppy phase.
I know this is old, but I have a question. How do you know how to dose human supplements for dogs?
Hey guys, sorry, I have some more questions regarding raw. I work at an upscale pet boutique and we sell commercial raw diets. I was given expired Nature’s Variety frozen raw for free because we obviously cannot sell that to the public. It expired in October of 2012. I was told it would be fine to feed because it has been frozen the entire time, but I’m a little uneasy to feed it. What opinions do y’all have about this? Also, if I decide to use a premix for raw instead of kibble will I need to add any supplements or will the premix have that covered (I’m assuming it will)? I like what I read about Nupro and wouldn’t mind using that as a supplement if needed. I will be adding probiotics and digestive enzymes. Do y’all recommend feeding fresh meats from the store or commercial raw to add to the premix? If I feed fresh from the store do I need to freeze for a few days to kill off any parasites? I’m just paranoid I’m going to screw something up, but I’m honestly tired of feeding kibble because no matter what the quality is it just doesn’t seem good enough for me.
I give it 3 or 4 times a week all year. But if you don’t want to do it all the time, I’d definitely recc’ at least for a week after heartworm/flea/tick meds. Some folks give milk thistle for a week after heartworm meds to detox the liver. I give supplements all the time because we live in a polluted world! Just going on walks can be somewhat toxic! Who knows what’s in other people’s yards or the dog park. Even eating kibble can be taxing on the body and certain body organs.
Her history of being on many abx suggests she needs some sort of booster as abx kill off the good and bad organisms in the gut where the immune system is. Do you give probiotics regularly? Those help seed the gut with beneficial organisms and boost the immune system.
Demodex can take a long to recover from too. Can take months even with negative scrapes. My pup was a funny looking alien for almost a year. Had demodex, hair came back, demodex again, finally got over it. This was without any kind of booster since I didn’t know about them back then.
Since giving them boosters they don’t get sick even when my fosters come in with kennel cough or other skin infection and even sarcoptic mange. And they do mingle together when it’s p/p time.
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This reply was modified 12 years, 9 months ago by
pugmomsandy.
Long story short…my dog’s paws became infected after an allergic reaction to road salt over the winter. I tried everything to heal them up but ended up having to get a shot of anti-biotics and then a round of pills. Before that she had also been on antibiotics for UTI and demodex. So she’s been on lots of antibiotics and she’s only 15 months old. Her feet are healing up but there’s still a bit of dry scaly spots on them….I do not want to see them blossom back out into infection and swelling. UGH!
She also has some sort of allergies causing itching, red ears and watering eyes. She was tested for demodex but three scrapings came back negative.
My question after the brief history of her is: What supplements can I give her to help boost her immune system to counteract all the negativity of those antibiotics in her system. I’m giving her echinacea, vitamin C, B complex, A, E and cod liver oil. Also a human grade probiotic. Good? Bad? She is now on NV LID Turkey for her diet. A small amount of canned to give the pills with.
you may try all sort of supplements for stopping it. But just an additional one elemental supplement with “Zinc” is all you need to make all you anti watery stool to be in action. These are actually quiet good in maintaining turgidity of cells and avoid excessive water loss.
Hi EHubbam –
Glad he’s enjoying his food with the canned!
Raw can be done cheaply or it can be done very expensively. I’ve gotten VERY savvy at cutting costs over the years and am now feeding all three of my hounds for ~$350 per month (not too shabby when you consider I’m going through around 200 lbs. of meat a month + fruits/veggies and other extras like eggs and kefir + supplements). Homemade is MUCH cheaper – I get all my meat from a wholesale supplier that supplies local restaurants and grocery stores (truck come right to my house, I order ~300 lbs. per shipment) and I order my supplements from Swanson’s (low cost human supplements).
The food i would Suggest eliminates Chicken, Potato and ANY grain altogether.. its called Canine Caviar. it has venison, duck, or herring available for the grain free diets. its very similar to a raw diet but in kibble form (dehydrated raw pretty much).
this food has prebiotics and probiotics in the food so its Fantastic for allergy prone dogs, it also has Kelp which is good for fighting off any pollutants as well.
I would HIGHLY recommend this food since you would not have to add any supplements to the food at all. look the food up, its extremely limited in the ingredients and you will understand what each ingredient is which is always a benefit.
this food will help with dogs who throw up a lot, i work in a global pet foods in Ontario and ive seen this food do fantastic things for dogs with the exact same symptoms. i hope this helps.
The food i would Suggest eliminates Chicken, Potato and ANY grain altogether.. its called Canine Caviar. it has venison, duck, or herring available for the grain free diets. its very similar to a raw diet but in kibble form (dehydrated raw pretty much).
this food has prebiotics and probiotics in the food so its Fantastic for allergy prone dogs, it also has Kelp which is good for fighting off any pollutants as well.
I would HIGHLY recommend this food since you would not have to add any supplements to the food at all. look the food up, its extremely limited in the ingredients and you will understand what each ingredient is which is always a benefit.
You can do an elimination diet. Try a single protein and single carb for 2 weeks and check for reactions. Example fish and sweet potato. Or fish and quinoa (gluten free). Be sure no treats are given unless it’s the single protein or carb. You can add in a vit/mineral supplement later as a dog can have a reaction to any ingredient including supplements and you wouldn’t know if it was the food or supplement.
You can google more on elimination diets as there are probably some variations.
I found that there is a lot of good information and recommendations about supplements including probiotics on dogaware dot com.
When I give human supplements to my dogs I just open the capsule and mix it with the food. I base the serving size off a 100 lb. person. So for example I’d give a 25 lb. dog 1/4 the recommended human dose, a 50 lb. dog 1/2 the recommended human dose, a 75 lb. 3/4 the recommended human dose and a dog >100 lbs. the full human dose. There really is no risk of “overdosing” with probiotics so you don’t need to stress too much about getting the dose exactly right.
Hi Marie –
She should probably be getting two capsules – that was my mistake. When I had recommended the product before I was going off the information on Swanson’s website which says the serving size is three capsules. In small print under the label it says that the three capsule serving is meant to be taken twice a day – so the total daily serving is six capsules. I’m not sure if this would make a difference, but it may. I’d say try doing a loading dose again (2 caps in the a.m. – 2 in the p.m.) for a week then reduce it down to a maintenance dose (1 cap in the a.m. and 1 cap in the p.m.). If this still doesn’t yield any results then definitely look into other supplements. Most joint supplements (like glucosamine, chondroitin, etc.) aren’t problematic when taken in excess, however because this supplement contains several herbal ingredients I would stick to basing the daily dosage on her weight and I would also take two days off per week after the initial loading period.
Is there anything in it that could be a problem if you gave too much? If not, I would try giving her 2 anyway. Many joint supplements have a “dosage may be doubled” statement.
Hi weimlove –
You’ll have to check to see the concentration of the vitamin e supplement you have – different liquid supplements have different concentrations. It should tell you how many IUs per drop. I’d say 100 IU per lb. would be fine.
As long as you’re feeding a fatty fish (like sardine or salmon) a few times a week you shouldn’t need to worry about Omega 3’s or Vitamin D. I would just suggest kelp and alfalfa (like I did with the raw) – or some other “superfoods” (wheat grass, spirulina, etc.). I would feed at least one egg per one. I would also suggest occasionally adding items like tinned oysters, nuts and seeds to provide important trace nutrients (this doesn’t need to be done daily, but once in awhile). As long as you’re balancing the c:p ratio, feeding a variety of protein sources, feeding 10% organ meat, adding vitamin e, omega 3’s (fatty fish, cage free eggs or fish oil) and adding a whole food supplement everything should balance over time. Variety is key.
Congrats on the new pup! I would certainly say it would be fine to start the new pup on homemade. I started Mabel right up on homemade raw when she came home.
Hound Dog Mom, thank you for being so thorough in your answer! It clears things up quite a bit; the article discussed briefly that the fat percentage should be at a lower level but did not go into specifics as for the health implications of excess fat. I just wanted to confirm that there was nothing about excess fat SPECIFICALLY that would cause health issues (i.e. like excess calcium). I’m thinking I can start with Nature’s Variety Instinct and Orijen, because they both have good nutritional stats, good ingredients from what I understand, and seem to be used with success by other owners who have posted. If you have any other suggestions for foods, please let me know! I was planning on supplementing with fresh food (i.e. hardboiled eggs, yogurt) and canned food (i.e. tripe) as well as digestive enzymes to help aid in the digestion of the dry food.
I do have a few follow-up questions. Here’s my situation: I’m getting a German Shepherd puppy in a few weeks (yay!). It’s coming from a well-known breeder, who made some nutritional suggestions based on years of experience with multiple vets. They suggest, “Puppies from 8 weeks to 1 year should be fed Science Diet Maintenance, fresh meat, yogurt, and boiled eggs.” However, Science Diet Maintenance has extremely LOW ratings on this site, as well as negative reviews from other posters on this site. This really concerns me, and I’m curious as to why they would make that particular suggestion.
In addition, they make suggestions for vitamins as well: 1,000 mg Vitamin C a day and a multi-vitamin and a B complex capsule once a day. In the research I did, the only supplements mentioned were calcium and Vitamin D. Do you see any issue with giving the suggested 3 vitamins?
Thanks so much for your help! You’ve provided so much valuable information and have also had to guide further research for me.
Hi Marie –
Sorry to hear the supplements aren’t working for Gemma. I’ve heard very mixed things about Chinese herbs – they seem to be hit or miss. I’m surprised the Swanson Mobility Essenials isn’t helping at all though. To make sure – are you basing her daily serving on the human dose of 6 caps per day (feeding her a percentage of that)? On the bottle it says serving size 3 caps but then recommends it twice a day (total of 6 caps per day) so I just wanted to make sure you weren’t accidentally basing her serving off 3 caps per day.
In some cases it’s just trial and error – you need to try things until you find something that works. I just started Gus on an esterified fatty acid supplement (NOW Foods Celadrin + MSM) and I know Sandy has said she has some of her seniors on one as well (I forget which brand she said she uses). So something like that would be worth trying. Have you tried enzyme supplements like Wobezyme? Other supplements I’ve heard good things about that could be worth a shot: duralactin, phycox, reservatrol, liquid hylaluronic acid and SOD.
You’re welcome! Also, HDM gave me a list of joint supplements with ingredients to help with inflammation; the one I chose was Joint Mobility plus from Swanson Vitamins.
Hi cinner00 –
You’re definitely not bugging me, I don’t mind questions. š
1) If he’s not on a grain-free food I would definitely go that route as grains are inflammatory – something you really want to avoid with arthritic dogs.
2) It will be very important to keep his weight down – being a healthy weight is probably one of the most important things for arthritic dogs. Any extra pounds are just extra stress on the joints. So I would definitely focus on getting him to a healthy weight (on the thin side is best). Unfortunately, like people, there’s really no easy way to get the pounds off. It’s calories in and calories out – the dog needs to burn more calories than it’s eating in order to lose weight. A deficit of about 3,500 kcal. equates to one pound. If he’s inactive it will be important to get him moving – this will not only help him to burn calories but it will also help to lubricate the joints and make him feel better. Start small and keep the activity low impact (i.e. leashed walking, swimming, etc.). Frequent activities of short duration are better than longer activities. I’m not sure exactly how active he his but something like 3 short (10-15) minute walks per day would probably make a big difference.
3) Glucosamine is great to help slow deterioration of the joint cartilage. However if he’s already arthritic he may benefit from some anti-inflammatory supplements as well. Some good options are turmeric (or curcumin), yucca, boswellia, bromelain or tart cherry. High doses of omega 3’s (up to 300 mg. per 10 lbs. of body weight) have an anti-inflammatory affect as well. I’ve also heard great things about esterified fatty acids (such as cetyl myristoleate). I recently started my senior on NOW Foods Celadrin & MSM which contains an esterified fatty acid complex with added MSM (Methylsulfonylmethane is a natural source of biologically active sulfur that helps maintain the structure of connective tissue).
4) You may also want to check out what are called “PROM (Passive Range of Motion) Exercises.” There are some great videos on You Tube demonstrating how to do PROM exercises with dogs. They help to maintain flexibility in the joints.
Good luck!
I would react just like I did when my 2 got Pancreatitis and bad bacteria when on Darwin’s I immediately get them to the Vet. The food Company would not help after your pet gets sick….Honestly they do not care and feel like you are just blamming them and or their food so they blow you off. I can almost instantly read it in their voice. Yes I agree Customer service is important but it is certainly not there anymore these days from my experience. I am still trying to find the perfect Raw for my dogs that doesn’t cost an arm and a leg to ship. I can get Vital Essentials and Primal and Natures Instinct but my problem with the Primal and Natures Instinct is the veggies and fruits they put in them. My dogs are doing good on the Rabbit from Hare Today and My Pet Carnivore but the $45 shipping is killing me. What if I feed Raw low fat meats just from the grocery and add in Steve’s mix? I just don’t want to do all kibble since I have not seen a huge improvement on it. It seems like I am fighting a never ending battle with my dogs are their diet these days. I am beginning to think it has nothing to do with food but the way man has bred dogs for the last years, The DNA code has been terribly messed up. I know dogs to this day that are fed Pedigree and thrive and have no health issues…I won’t feed cheap/grain food to my dogs and try to feed the best I can but it seriously back fires on me. I am to the point of buying my own meat and cooking the snot out of it and adding in supplements and maybe then I won’t have problems. Sorry just venting. I honestly do not know which way to turn in the food direction.
Hi everyone! Most of you know that I was feeding shadow a raw diet. After having a bout of pancreatitis, I have switched back to a high quality kibble because I got so freaked out. I don’t plan on going back to raw, but I am very interested in making a home cooked diet for him. I plan on this diet being grain free as well. I need some information about what supplements he would need. Especially calcium since he will not be consuming cooked bones. Any advice would be much appreciated. Thanks!
Starbright:
My Quinn (lab/vizsla) was diagnosed with hip dysplasia at 1 year old. I switched her food to grain-free after discovering that, along with a higher protein. She needed to build muscle as she was favoring one side. She has hip dysplasia in both hips.
In terms of supplements, I can tell you what we’ve done that has made a phenomenal difference. She just turned two and there’s no way in the world I’d have thought she would be at this point. We were pretty certain she was going to need surgery (her range of motion was OK — but we just thought surgery would be more immediate than in the distant future).
As HDM suggests, a great diet with anti-inflammatory supplements was suggested to us by Iowa State University. Since being recommended, we’ve had her on Nutramax Cosequin DS Double-Strength Chewable Tablets. According to Iowa State, this is the only brand to be clinically proven. You will give her two a day for a month and one a day from then on (directions are on the bottle). Coupled with this, we also immediately started her on one tablet of fish oil per day — 1,000MG (but you may have to feed less/more — consult vet).
The diet change and supplements helped, but targeted exercise has made the difference, as well. Take your dog swimming. If she doesn’t like to swim, teach her to love it by way of rewards/playing. Swimming is the best for joint issues. Other options provided to us were walking in tall grass (makes her lift her legs all the way as opposed to close together/hopping), walking on a blown up air mattress (good for winter exercise), and frequent walks (as opposed to a long walk — more frequent is better).
Also — obviously weight. She’s a slim 43 pounds at the moment, but she did get to 50 pounds in the winter and my vet noticed it. Slim is always, always better — and I’ve had people say she’s too thin (mostly because I don’t think most people are accustomed to seeing healthy dogs — harsh, but true… I think a lot of dogs are overweight).
If you have any questions, let me know. I really enjoy talking about this subject because I couldn’t find enough information when this happened to us. It’s our personal experience, but Quinn is now running full-speed and playing for hours and hours daily. A definite turnaround.
Good luck. š
Definitely – a quality 4 or 5 star food with supplements would be the way to go. I’d personally go grain-free if possible as grains are inflammatory. I don’t really have any particular favorites – when I fed kibble I switched brands after every bag. Good luck!
Chicken feet is a staple at ethnic grocery stores. They usually have pig feet too. Getting a human supplement might be cheaper per dose for joint supplements. You can also buy bulk green lipped mussel. I get Jarrow True CMO from swansonvitamins(dot)com and also use Actiflex 4000. I get the horse version because I don’t like the beef flavor in the dog version and give a very small amount. This is from folks in my local raw feeding group:
Under 25 pounds:
Ā½ tsp. daily loading dose for 5 days
Ā¼ tsp. daily maintenance dose
>
25-50 pounds
1 tsp. daily loading dose for 5 days
Ā½ tsp. daily maintenance dose
>
50-75 pounds:
1 Ā½ tsp. daily loading dose for 5 days
Ā¾ tsp. daily maintenance dose
>
100 pounds
2 tsp. daily loading dose for 5 days
1 tsp. daily maintenance dose
Hi starbright –
Unfortunately if your dog has hip dysplasia she has hip dysplasia. Hip dysplasia is a chronic degenerative condition and is not reversible. The condition will progress as she ages, although its difficult to predict the extend to which it will affect her as many factors are at play (degree of pain tolerance, size and weight of the dog, etc.). For some dogs hip dysplasia is crippling and for others it may never cause more than a mild stiffness with age. Anti-inflammatory supplements (tart cherry, omega 3’s, boswellia, turmeric, etc.) will certainly help manage pain and supplements such as glucosamine/chondroitin/MSM/hylaluronic acid (or whole foods containing these items) may help slow the joint deterioration to a certain degree – but they certainly won’t stop it. It will also be critical to keep her lean and active (low impact activities). Being that she’s over a year old calcium levels won’t affect anything at this point.
Hello,
I am looking for advice for my friend’s dog. He has a one and a half year old male German Sheppard name Ranger. Ranger was on Acana Large Puppy Breed when he was younger then moved on Acana Large Breed Adult. My friend noticed Rangers breath was really bad so when he went in for his yearly exam so the vet did a urine test. They found that Ranger has Triple phosphates and 10-50 HPF.
I am not sure what that means but they moved him to Canadia dog food with cranberry juice in his water. He has been on Canidae dog food for the past 10 days and there is no improvement on his breath. He went in to get a B12 test and he was advised to wait 30 days to do a test for Phosphate levels.
Any advice on supplements, food or course of action would be really appreciated.
Thank you in advance.
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This topic was modified 12 years, 9 months ago by
Angie.
Here is my story: I currently feed ACANA and I rotate between the different varieties and all 3 of my dogs have done wonderfully on it. But after a rare bout with fleas my Saint Bernard has terrible yeasty skin with a horrid smell and my American Bulldog is starting to show signs of what I believe to be yeast issues, too. I have no idea if the fleas caused this or if it is just a coincidence, but I want to fix it soon. From my research I know raw is the way to go for the issues my dogs are facing and just plain better for them period. I am a full time college student with one more year of school, so feeding a homemade raw diet is not possible right now, but that is my goal one day. Anyway, I was thinking of feeding 50/50 raw and kibble. I wanted to feed Tucker’s Frozen Raw in the a.m. and kibble in the p.m.. I will probably switch my dogs to Orijen kibble because I know that white potato and sweet potato will feed yeast and Orijen does not contain those ingredients while ACANA does. I also will be feeding raw meaty bones once in a while. If I feed the 50/50 split will it still be beneficial to add a supplement like Nupro Silver? The people who owned my Saint before I got her did not feed her correctly as a growing pup (39 pounds underweight when I got her at 2 years old and was fed Iams), so since she has hip issues supplementing with glucosamine is something I really want to do and I figured the other natural ingredients in Nupro Silver wouldn’t hurt. If there are other supplements out there that are better please let me know. Just from my research the Nupro will be cheaper for me to give than the NuVet supplements I am giving currently. I also know that feeding duck feet is a natural source of glucosamine and I will be giving her some of those every now and then. I am just wondering if this plan sounds like a good idea or if it is stupid. I really don’t know a whole lot about raw, but I want to learn more. Any input would be greatly appreciated!
Chicken and turkey necks have a lot of cartilage in them and have helped my 11 year old JRT more than joint supplements did.
Hi Amawil05 –
Going grain-free would be a smart idea – grains are inflammatory (something you really want to avoid when dealing with arthritic dogs). I’m assuming that by “Nature’s Instinct” you’re referring to Nature’s Variety Instinct. I would go with Nature’s Variety Instinct over Taste of the Wild. Nature’s Variety Instinct is manufactured by a reputable company, Taste of the Wild is manufactured by Diamond, a company known for producing low quality products and having frequent recalls. If you aren’t already giving joint support supplements, I would start a natural supplement regimen as well. Glucosamine, chondroitin, MSM and hyaluronic acid are all great for maintaining the joints; you can buy these supplements individually or in whole food form – some whole foods that contain some of these components and that are known for promoting joint health are green lipped mussel, sea cucumber, velvet antler, shark cartilage and eggshell membrane. There are also numerous natural supplements you can give that have anti-inflammatory properties – omega 3’s (up to 300 mg. per 10 lbs.), turmeric, boswellia, yucca, bromelain and tart cherry.
I used the USDA nutrient database and Self Nutrition Data – a few of the ingredients I couldn’t find on these databases (like some of the supplements) and had to do a bit of digging on the internet to find an analysis. Then I just converted everything to a dry matter basis and weighted all the nutrients based on the amount of the ingredient in the recipe. Very tedious and time consuming. If you can find any free software for analyzing recipes let me know!
Wrigley is a 6 month old yellow labrador and he is our baby!! After 6 months of taking the little guy to a “traditional” Vet for his stomach issues (we got him at 7 weeks old and he had coccidia from the breeder), we were tired of the constant prescription of steroids, antibiotics and pro-biotics. This little guy has been on some sort of medication since birth. I was fed up with this approach and took him to a holistic vet. She said that his internal terrain was compromised from all the meds, and recommended a RAW diet immediately (along with four supplements- two to aide with the transition). We did a cold turkey switch from his Canidae Grain Free Lamb and Bison to Natures Variety Beef RAW patties. Along with his supplements and a homemade “veggie mash” (spinach, goji berries, cucumbers, carrots and celery) Wrigley loved his new food for the first two days. Now at day three, he won’t eat anything and has been waking up at 4am vomiting a mucus-like bile. I’m reading online that dogs can experience detox symptoms when switching to raw food, especially dogs who have been on steroids or antibiotics (like Wrigley). But he’s never missed a meal and I’m worried about him. My husband wants to take him to the traditional vet, but we know he’ll just go back to antibiotics and want to put him back on dry kibble. After researching RAW diets, I really believe in the nutritional value and have already seen an improvement in my dogs bowls. Has anyone had any experience with “detox” symptoms like this? I’ve been up since 4am with our puppy and crying hysterically! Feeding him brown rice and chicken broth now, hoping he can keep that down.
“I have heard varying opinions in the forums about adding probiotics and enzymes. Someone said there are natural probiotics and enzymes without having to add and pay for supplements.”
There are naturally occurring probiotics in foods like kefir and yogurt and raw goat milk and tripe (which tripe also has enzymes). It really depends on how healthy or unhealthy your dogās gut is. Has he eaten a variety of foods so that he produces a variety of natural gut flora? Or has he only eaten a few foods for a long period of time? Also yogurt usually only has a few strains of acidophilus. Some store bought probiotics have over 10 strains which I think is ideal. I have both Mercola and Dr Langers probiotics.
“How/when do I do this with a raw diet? How do I do this on his current diet while Iām transitioning to a raw diet? How do I transition to a raw diet?”
You can give probiotics and/or digestive enzymes with meals as you are transitioning and even when he is completely on a raw diet. I still feed kibble and raw so I still use these products. You can transition him to a raw diet in various ways. You can slowly introduce raw (like frozen raw medallions or raw bites like Instinct brand has) a couple times a day as treats to see how he does or you can feed one meal of old food and the next meal of raw food. Or every 3rd meal of raw food. Depends on how his stools are! Also raw foods generally have more fat so you must take that into consideration.
“Are there specific recipes for smaller breeds versus larger breeds, older versus younger dogs, etc.? Is it okay to feed him nothing but raw? Can I freeze/store what Iāve made if Iāll be on vacation?”
A homemade raw diet is good for all breeds and ages (except maybe for breeds prone to pancreatitis) and he can be fed nothing but raw. You can freeze in small batches and pull out what you need for 2 to 3 days worth. For vacation, if youāre taking your dog you might be interested in freeze dried raw as it is shelf stable. Some examples are Stella and Chewyās, Natureās Variety Instinct and Vital Essentials, Nutrisca and Primal. I wouldn’t give him marrow bones in the beginning as they are just fat.
Yes, he is an inactive dog. After you start feeding, be sure to weigh and/or monitor ābody condition scoreā so that he is an ideal āshapeā. My dogs are heavy but are still of good body condition for their breed. There a several “body condition score” photos you can see online.
SO. Thanks to HDM, it has come to my attention that making my own raw food for my Louie (10-pound Silky terrier) is actually more cost-effective than buying a high-quality kibble and is obviously much more healthy for my baby.
There are a lot of threads here, obviously, devoted to raw food recipes and diets. Currently my boy is on Earthborn Hollistic Primitive Natural. He’s not doing well on it. I had been feeding him a combination of that and the Earthborn Hollistic tubs (the lamb-based ones), but took those out to see if they were the cause of his upset. I think not. The tubs are expensive and I just have come to the conclusion that I’d rather he be on a raw diet. But, just like everything else, this task of changing his diet (yet again) is so daunting and I am so terrified and essentially stupid and ignorant and I really need you DFA Gods’ help!
I have heard varying opinions in the forums about adding probiotics and enzymes. Someone said there are natural probiotics and enzymes without having to add and pay for supplements. How/when do I do this with a raw diet? How do I do this on his current diet while I’m transitioning to a raw diet? How do I transition to a raw diet? Are there specific recipes for smaller breeds versus larger breeds, older versus younger dogs, etc.? Is it okay to feed him nothing but raw? Can I freeze/store what I’ve made if I’ll be on vacation?
My boy is essentially inactive. We go on walks every day and he gets very excited and runs around the house whether we’re coming home for work or from taking the trash out, but then he calms down and takes a nap. I heard 2% of his body weight for an inactive dog is what I should be feeding him. Is this correct? Does he fit the description of an inactive dog? What is the definition of an inactive dog?
There is so much misinformation out there! So many threads to read through, so much confusion! He’s my first dog and I want to do right by him, he deserves the best.
I always do these posts and I’m always very anxious about finding out how best to serve my canine baby because I know how important diet is, and I want him to have those perfect, firm stools and not feel lousy.
I guess I’m just being somewhat lazy to ask for a guide as to how to do this perfectly. I know it’s going to take some time and a lot of effort!
Marty keep in mind that diet should also be based on caloric needs. I have an eight yr. old 145 lb.
Anatolian Shep. who at this point in his life thinks rolling over is a lotta effort as compared to a 11
month old rare breed Tornjak that likes to run anywhere from a mile or two once or twice a day.
I feed the lazy old big guy a lot differently than my baby girl. Oh, oh yeah….the old guy eats alot less
than she does and I vary their diets brand wise alot. Ie : tonite he’s getting fed Horizon Pulsar with
Assorted fresh veggies and she’s getting fed human grade canned sardines, vitamin supplements fresh
veggies and venison tripe. Maybe tomorrow we’ll do Wellness Grain Free mixed with some Orijen and
Jasmine Rice. They’re stools are consistently the way they should be and both of them are in great health. Like people they need dietary diversity and with so much great stuff out there to choose from
along with free delivery, you can’t do wrong
Response #2:
Hi marty0203 –
Calcium and phosphorus levels really only affect the joint health of large and giant breed dogs during the growth phase. By the time a large or giant breed dog reaches two years of age it is either dysplastic or not dysplastic. For all dogs, calcium and phosphorus levels should be in balance with one another (between a 1:1 and 2:1 ratio of C:P) but this is really only a concern for those making homemade food, balanced commercial foods will have a proper ratio of calcium to phosphorus.
I strongly feel that a diet high in protein, moderate in fat and low in carbohydrates is best for most dogs. My three bloodhounds eat between 45% and 55% protein, 30% and 40% fat and <20% carbohydrates at each meal. If feeding a dry food I would search for one with no less than 30% protein.
I feel it’s important to feed a variety of foods. I no longer feed dry dog food, but when I did I switched to a new brand at the end of each bag and added a variety of canned and/or fresh food toppers daily. I would recommend finding at least 3 quality foods (preferable different brands with different protein sources) and switching every so often. If you can mix in canned or fresh food occasionally this is great too and canned and fresh foods are much more species-appropriate than dry food. Patty had a wonderful suggestion with recommending you check out online retailers. I live in a small area with a limited selection of quality pet products as well and, for this reason, do the majority of my shopping online. In addition to the sites she suggested, some others you may want to check out are wag.com, doggiefood.com and naturalk9supplies.com.
Some supplements that promote joint health are glucosmaine, chondroitin, MSM, esterified fatty acids (such as cetyl myristoleate) and hyaluronic acid. Some who foods supplements that promote joint health are sea cucumber, green lipped mussel, eggshell membrane, shark cartilage and velvet antler. Raw meaty bones (especially those high in cartilage such as trachea, gullet and chicken feet) and naturally rich in joint health promoting compounds such as chondroitin. Turmeric, tart cherry, boswellia, yucca, white willow, bromelian and high doses of omega 3 fatty acids (up to 300 mg. per 10 lbs.) all help to manage pain and inflammation. If your dogs don’t have any orthopedic issues, a basic glucosamine/chondroitin supplement would be fine for maintenance. If your dogs have any symptoms of pain and inflammation you may want to consider a combination of some of the joint health supplements listed in addition to one of the natural anti-inflammatories.
Hi Marty –
Calcium and phosphorus levels are really only a concern for joint health during the growth phase. Once large/giant breed dogs reach two years of age their joints are fully developed and at this point they’re either dysplastic or not dysplastic. Calcium and phosphorus levels obviously need to be in balance with each other (between a 1:1 and 2:1 ratio of C:P) but this is true for all dogs, not just large/giant breeds, and isn’t a concern as long as you’re feeding a balanced commercial food (where balancing C:P ratios come into play are with homemade diets). I personally feel that a diet high in protein, moderate in fat and low in carbohydrates is healthiest and most species-appropriate for healthy dogs. My three bloodhounds eat between 45% and 55% protein, 30% and 40% fat and <15% carbohydrates at each meal. If feeding a dry food, I would search for one with no less than 30% protein. I also would not limit yourself to only one brand – variety is important. I no longer feed dry dog food, but when I did I switched brands and protein sources at the end of every bag and I added different canned and/or fresh food toppers daily. I would recommend finding a minimum of three foods your dogs can eat (preferably different brands with different protein sources). Patty had a wonderful suggestion with online ordering if selection is limited where you live – some other sites that have a big selection and offer free shipping in addition to the two she posted are Wag.com, Doggiefood.com and NaturalK9Supplies.com. There are several supplements you can give your dogs that help to promote joint health and/or have anti-inflammatory properties. If your dogs don’t have any orthopedic conditions or arthritis a basic glucosamine, chondroitin, MSM supplement would be fine to start off with. Some other supplements good for joint maintenance are hyaluronic acid and esterfied fatty acids (like cetyl myristoleate). Some whole food supplements that are beneficial for the joints are eggshell membrane, velvet elk antler, sea cucumber, green lipped mussel and shark cartilage. Raw meaty bones (especially those high in cartilage such as trachea, chicken feet and gullets) are very rich in naturally occurring chondroitin. For dogs experiencing pain/arthritis some natural anti-inflammatories include high doses of omega 3 fatty acids (up to 300 mg. per 10 lbs.), turmeric, boswellia, tart cherry, yucca, bromelian and white willow. Generally human supplements are cheaper and higher quality than supplements marketed to dogs, adjust the dosage accordingly (a good rule of thumb is a 25 lb. dog would get about 1/4 of the recommended human dose, 1/2 the human dose for a 50 lb. dog, 3/4 the human dose for a 75 lb. dog and full human dose for dogs >100 lbs.). Also – as you may already know – the most important factor to maintaining healthy joints and staving off arthritis in large and giant breed dogs is maintaining a healthy body weight, it’s very important that large/giant breeds don’t become overweight as this adds a lot of stress to the joints.
You can feed raw trachea or chicken feet and perna (green lipped mussel) for natural joint support. I believe omega 3’s are given in a higher dose for joint support. You can also try products like Actiflex 4000 (I give the horse product, 1/4 teaspoon to my small dogs), Wysong’s (human products) Joint Complex and Arthegic. I do like products with eggshell membrane and cetyl-myristoleate (esterified fatty acid).
oh yeah…reason for curiosity is mostly our lab ..horrible ear infections and itching constantly as much as we stay on top of it. i think part of the severity now is he is eating poop (gross) when he can and mayeb even the farms near us being sprayed with chemicals. we went through years with the vets doing every food imaginable with him at a fortune and it never helped. since i began cooking it has significantly improved but he still goes through bad spells… i currently feed him oatmeal with is breakfast and rice or pasta for din (with all their veg , meat and supplements) ..wondering if this needs to be eliminated maybe??
2 months, 1 week ago
