Yes to culture and sensitivity tests. She’s resistant to many! I just learned about the kibble not being that helpful to outer tartar. Thank you for your recommendations! I will research all of them. I am willing to pay a bit more for a quality dog food. It’s either the vet bill or the good food and supplements! Saving now for dental cleaning. I’m going to try grain-free and not senior. Thanks again!! I’ll let the forum know how we make out.
Hey Flossie,
Something I just recalled…. I have a Cavalier that means the world to me and Cavaliers are predisposed to cardiac disease, so I was talking to my TCVM vet about different cardiac support supplements and in particular, I asked about Standard Process Canine Cardiac Support. He said its a great product, but he would only recommend it for a dog with a cardiac problem and that it wasn’t best for use in preventing cardiac disease. Do you see a TCVM or holistic vet, by chance?
If he has heart problems adding fresh heart as a topper an a regular basis could be very beneficial. Heart (also gizzards) are actually considered to be a muscle meat (nutritionally speaking), not organ meat so you could top the kibble daily with no issues – true organ meats (i.e. liver, kidneys, lungs, etc., while healthy, should be fed sparingly because they’re so nutrient-dense). Heart is rich in CoQ10 and taurine which are both known to be beneficial to heart health. The concept of glandular therapy also involves supplementing with the gland (or organ) that is experiencing problems – i.e. a dog with heart failure should eat heart, a dog with pancreatitis should eat pancreas, a dog with renal failure should eat kidney, etc. Glandular supplements that are much more concentrated can be purchased but feeding the fresh organ/gland is beneficial as well.
Thanks so much! I was just about to email Fromm’s to ask about sodium; it really does sound like a good option. And adding some meat as a topper is a good idea–my dog would definitely be all for it! The day I started mixing canned food into his dry food was the best day of his life, so organ meat on a regular basis would enrapture him. (He still eats like a pig and is very energetic; my vet says he’s certainly not in the end stages or anything like that. But his heart is enlarged and there’s fluid in his lungs that causes coughing, and two diuretics and two heart meds haven’t been able to eradicate it. I’m hoping lowering his sodium and adding some supplements will help bring it to a minimum for now.)
Didn’t realize that about the fat. Thank you! The dang Newman’s I have been feeding may be high fat too. But since getting her off the coconut milk and adding in the motility drugs and supplements, she has been doing better…pooping at least once a day and less bloated looking.
I am leaning towards trying one of the pre made raw diets or at least supplementing her current canned food with it. Isn’t raw in general more easily digested than processed foods? Any idea which raw diet would roll up to make the smoothest meatball? She can’t tolerate any chunkiness. In pics the Bravo looks chunky but the Instinct and S&C seems smooth, like finely ground meat patties.
Hi Wallyworld –
Personally, I would avoid fish based kibbles or kibbles high in DHA. It’s very likely to be rancid by the time your dog eats it and rancid omega 3’s are worse than no omega 3’s at all. It’s much better to feed a kibble low in omega 3’s (preferably with no added omega 3’s – although this would be difficult to find) and supplement with a high quality fish oil, tinned sardines and/or cage free eggs. If you subscribe to the Whole Dog Journal there’s a wonderful article on this topic titled “Fat’s Chance” by Steve Brown from December 2012 – it can be found in the archives online. I don’t use krill oil because it’s very expensive and I think a high quality fish oil is just as good. The most important thing when it comes to picking out a fish oil is quality – use human supplements only, never buy fish oil in pump dispensers, make sure the company tests for contaminants and make sure the fish oil contains vitamin e (helps to prevent oxidation). When it comes to fish oil you’re going to need to spend some money to get a quality product – good fish oil is not cheap. Make sure you store it in the fridge, use it within 2 – 3 months and if it smells “fishy” it’s rancid. I use Carlson Brand Salmon Oil Complete with astaxanthin – Carlson Labs is a very reputable company that makes some of the best quality fish oils for humans and they add high levels of vitamin e to preserve freshness. I also feed organic cage free eggs a few times a week (which are high in omega 3’s) and occasionally feed tinned sardines packed in water. Additionally, I sometimes add plant-based omega 3’s like sprouted flaxseed, sprouted chia seed and hemp seed.
Hello – I am new here, although I’ve lurked on the DFA site at those threads. This could be long, so bear with me. We rescued a 3-year old boxer last year who had “allergies.” We have two vets, a conventional one, and a holistic one, to whom we travel three hours each way when he needs to see her. We started taking Nico to her when all we were getting from conventional vets was Pred, then antibiotics or antifungals for secondary infections. You know the drill. Since transitioning Nico to a raw diet with supplements (enzymes, probiotics, a Chinese herb formula, and other herbs) Nico has done much better. His coat has improved, he itches much less (almost not at all in the winter). He’s still been on 5 mg of pred every other day, however, and vets agree that this is OK.
That said, we’ve done a few blood work ups on him and each time, all seemed normal except his Lipase. It was through the roof; it has “come down” to something like 4,000 when the high end is something like 1,600. I could be slightly off on that last number. We ultimately decided to do a separate draw and send that blood to a lab at Texas A&M. My husband just heard back form our conventional vet and she said she “got an earful” from the folks in Texas. I am beside myself. They are calling it something like latent pancreatitus or something like that. Has anyone ever heard of this? He has no symptoms that we can see. Every so often he has a soft or mucousy stool but otherwise he is fine and that is only occasional. I’m wondering if anyone has heard anything about this and if so, what is recommended to feed him? He loves his OC Raw turkey and rabbit. We HATE the idea of giving him kibble. And we worry that all the work we’ve done to ease his itchiness will be for naught. Thanks for listening if you’re still with me. Any thoughts would be most appreciated!
Sharon
Wanted to post some news about my progress!
I got the salmon oil and Dr. Harvey’s Multivitamin and Mineral supplement and have been adding them to his food already along with some coconut oil.
Tomorrow I should be getting the vitamin e, cod liver oil, and glandular supplements from Swanson, so I’ll be removing the Earthborn from his diet and using the supplements with the chicken grind.
Then I’ll be picking up the Xkaliber from greentripe.com on Tuesday, and will probably be adding that in sometime next week.
I was able to grab some RMB’s and organ meat, too ^_^ I got a whole ton and am doing my two week freeze now. SOOOO excited 😀
I got ox tail, pork necks, chicken feet (omg I never realized how unbelievably creepy those things were until I was walking about the grocery store with a thing of them!), chicken livers, chicken hearts and gizzards, and pork feet. I may have also gotten something else but now I don’t remember. The organ meat is all chicken because beef organs were kind of expensive (don’t recall seeing pork organ meat), and I figured it would all balance out with the RMB’s.
Unfortunately Only Natural Pet is back-ordered on the Super Daily Greens and won’t get it in till the 31st so I won’t be able to add that into my rotation for a little while. Sigh.
So we’re close to a 100% raw diet!! AHHH hehe 😀 I’m sure I will have many many many more questions and concerns along the way but I’m so glad I’ve gotten him all the way to this point ^_^
EDIT: Forgot to mention that I also got a kitchen scale! I am decidedly more excited about this than my wonderful fiancee but I’m so glad I’ll be able to measure his food out properly ^_^
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This reply was modified 12 years, 5 months ago by
mah4angel.
Hi Nosh –
I read the recent article about the study released on the UC Davis press release page and I have a lot of questions about this study and issues with the findings. For anyone who wants to read the original press release: news(dot)ucdavis(dot)edu/search/news_detail.lasso?id=10666. Also, I’m going to apologize ahead of time because this is going to get kind of “ranty” (not toward you, but toward the study and subsequent articles).
1) I would like to see these “200 recipes” they analyzed. Where were they coming from? I know some were formulated by veterinarians, but what about the rest? I’ve come across many recipes on websites, in forums, even published in books by unqualified individuals that are horribly unbalanced. In fact, I recently came across a commercially prepared cooked food being sold as “complete and balanced” that only contained meat and no calcium!
2) They reported that even some of the recipes formulated by veterinarians had a least one deficiency. What does this tell us about the nutrition-related education that vets receive? That it’s inadequate! It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to feed a person and it shouldn’t take one to feed a dog either. It’s not that complicated.
3) This study is not taking into consideration the main philosophy of homemade diets: Balance over time. Is each meal that you eat 100% balanced with every vitamin, mineral and amino acid your body requires? Does each meal you eat have the ideal fat to protein to carbohydrate ratio? What about the ideal omega 3 to omega 6 ratio? I doubt it! People eat varied diets, for this reason we receive all the nutrients we need by eating a variety of healthy foods. People that eat a varied healthy don’t don’t require synthetic vitamin/mineral supplements and, in fact, it is advised not to take multivitamins unless absolutely necessary as synthetic vitamins are linked to a myriad of health issues. Why should a dog’s diet be any different? Most people that feed homemade diets don’t worry about making each meal 100% balanced – they feed a variety of fresh and species-appropriate foods and over the course of a few days or a week everything balances out (as with people) and the dog receives all the nutrients it needs. Yes, there does need to be some basic understanding of a dog’s nutrient requirements, however variety is the most important thing.
I can say this – I have fed my dogs a homemade diet for about two years now. I don’t use any synthetic vitamins and minerals. My dogs are healthier than ever. I had bloodwork done on two of my dogs after they had been on homemade for about 6 months to test for nutrient deficiencies and they had none. I have ran a full nutrient analysis on some of my recipes using the USDA’s nutrient database and found that my recipes exceed the AAFCO’s nutrient requirements for growth and reproduction (the more stringent of the two nutrient requirements). For those that don’t have the knowledge to create a balanced homemade diet from scratch, there are several pre-mixes on the market designed to make a homemade diet complete and balanced. My favorite is “See Spot Liver Longer Dinner Mix.”
This study and press release is nothing short of a scare tactic designed to steer pet owners toward commercial foods. They could very well have chosen numerous obviously unbalanced recipes from questionable sources for the study. The problem here is the vets, not homemade food. They need to become educated in how to instruct their clients to make balanced and healthy homemade meals for their animals. To have that level of education and not able to make a balanced meal for a dog is inexcusable and just plain sad. They recommend that only recipes formulated by veterinary nutritionists are used. Really? Do mothers need to spend 8 years in college and then do a nutritional residency before being able to feed their child? What a joke.
Well, I think I’m going to try for this (updated a little bit after some research on my own):
Morning:
1/2 cup whole grind (rotating between protein sources)
1/2 cup XKALIBER green tripe grind (greentripe.com)
Alternating between Dr. Harvey’s and Only Natural Pet Super Daily Greens super food supplements (every other day)
Swanson’s glandular supplement (still not sure of the dosage nor how often to administer since it’s a human supplement)
1/8 capsule of 200 IU vitamin e (25 IU)
Rotating between salmon oil (1/2 tsp), coconut oil (1/2 tsp), and flax seed (1/2 tbsp)
1/8 1000 mg capsule of cod liver oil (125 mg)
Evening:
RMB’s (rotating)
I’ve already purchased everything except the green tripe, which I’ve already sent them an email about, and the RMB’s, which I’m still searching for locally.
I’m so excited!
Okay! And the cod liver oil would not supplement the omega-3’s, correct (I believe you said before that in order to get enough omega-3’s through cod liver oil, you’d be getting excessive amounts of vitamin a and d)? I actually am going to try to go the non-supplement route especially considering I have a ton of flax seed that I bought at Costco that is a possible source of manganese if I supplement with it correctly, and because I just think it’s an all-around better option for my Louie.
SO I’m wondering if this will work for the morning:
1/2 cup whole grind (rotating between protein sources)
1/2 cup XKALIBER green tripe grind (greentripe.com)
Alternating between Dr. Harvey’s and Daily Greens super food supplements
Swanson’s glandular supplement (not sure of the dosage since it’s a human supplement)
1/8 capsule of 200 IU vitamin e (25 IU)
Salmon oil (should I give this daily or maybe alternate between this and ground flax seed/others nuts and seeds?)
Daily cod liver oil (not sure how much to give my 10 pound dog – I know you give your babies one 1.000 mg capsule)
I was also looking at urinary tract boosters because Louie apparently has crystals in his urine and a much higher risk for UTI’s and kidney/bladder stones.
I feel so close to getting this down AH 🙂
Hello all!
So I decided to create a separate topic here on the supplements forum specifically to ask for suggestions for a cheap human multi with no calcium that would be safe/acceptable for dogs. I’m working on getting my Louie on a 100% raw diet but HDM pointed out that the recipe I have will be deficient in certain vitamins (d and e) and minerals (manganese) so I’d like to supplement with a multi. Here’s what I plan on feeding:
Morning:
1/2 cup whole grind (rotating between protain sources)
1/2 cup XKALIBER green tripe grind (greentripe.com)
Alternating between Dr. Harvey’s and Daily Greens super food supplements
Swanson’s glandular supplement
Omega-3 source (salmon oil, whole sardines, etc.)
No-calcium multi
Possibly organic virgin coconut oil if it doesn’t throw everything off
Evenings:
RMB’s
I don’t know that this is adequate but, it’s what I’ve got so far 😀
Isn’t that sarcoptic mange? It didn’t spread to you? I kind to thought that if she had that, then I’d have it too? I suppose it could be. The patches that pop up are red and inflamed looking, go away in a couple days…she is then left with a gray skin patch but there isn’t irritation on the skin anymore. Is that the sort of rash it would cause? Also, her back doesn’t itch. That’s one reason I thought maybe it was demodex because supposedly demodex doesn’t itch but sarcoptic mange does itch.
I’m really beginning to think that it was something that she had eaten that caused that to come up and get inflamed. It is all fading away now and she is on nothing but her food (NV LID Turkey) and a probiotic. All treats are just her kibble and no other supposedly LID treats anymore. No other supplements. There was a treat I’d bought that sounded like she shouldn’t have any problems with it..sweet potatoes and turkey and very little else but I do believe that was what she was allergic to. I think she’s allergic to sweet potatoes and white potatoes. I won’t know until I can add one new thing at a time though.
Thanks for that suggestion though, if it doesn’t go away I’ll ask the vet about that for sure!
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This reply was modified 12 years, 5 months ago by
somebodysme.
Hi!
I’ve been posting in different threads with questions on different dog foods/supplements and then just realized…HELLO…there are forums on this website as well, thanks to Inkedmarie who suggested I check out a sub forum with different dog foods that were grain free with no potatoes. Thanks! I’ve decided to send my question out forum wise instead of post wise so I can keep better track of the advice that I am receiving.
Here is my dilemma:
In 2006 I took Nikki, my 13 year old Miniature Schnzauzer in for allergy testing – she is allergic to pretty much everything environmental is what I found out. She was on a duck and potato formula then. She had a couple of bouts of pancreatitis due to some pain medication she was prescribed for something else and then because someone in my family was naughty an fed her some sausage. My vet put her on a prescription diet of Purina HA. I believe that my vet is being super cautious as schnauzers are prone to bladder stones, pancreatitis/hyperlipidemia, and hypothyroidism. Nikki seems to do ok on this dog food, which I get but every time I ask her for an alternative she says absolutely not this is the only dog food she can tolerate. I don’t like that answer. There has to be alternatives.
I called them back recently and got a different vet in her practice – my regular vet is out for a time due to sick family member, and he couldn’t figure out why Nikki was on this dog food. He thinks it’s because of the food allergies. I ask him what food allergies and he can’t answer me. I thought she was on this food due to a sensitive stomach. So, I’m confused. I was also told to give her rice cakes as treats and tofu to give her any medications so that is all she has been getting. She can’t eat anything other than that is what she tells me and she pushes low protein which I’ve been reading may not be the answer. She’s been on this prescription diet for a few years and everything I’m reading now says that it might not be good to have a dog on that diet for so long. She’s been on and off antibiotics, anti bacterial pills, temaril p for years to help with her allergies and yeast infections. Nothing really seems to help and I’m worried I’ve just completely ruined her system with years of this. Purina HA has a low protein (18%) and fat content (8%) with hydrolyzed protein of soy. I honestly feel I can do better by her with a different dog food.
About a year ago Nikki was diagnosed with Melanoma. A tumor on the pad of her paw that was removed (but not a clean removal). She has been taking the Melanoma Vaccine every 6 months. The cancer does not look to have come back so far. (knock on wood) She also has gallstones that don’t seem to bother her but do show up in x-rays. She has a heart murmur and Also, on her last urinalysis I was told there was protein in her urine. We did a protein/creatinene ratio and it came back ok, so I’m told I don’t need to worry about that right now.
I’ve been researching dog food and supplements now for about 2 weeks and am now more confused than before. I purchased a probiotic from Nusentia (waiting to get it in the mail) that supposedly should help with her yeast issues and possibly allergies.
Do I stay with her current food and just give supplements or do I completely switch foods over (slowly)?
She’s 13 years old with a lot of health issues – I don’t want to rock the boat, but I also want to do my due diligence in finding her something to make her healthy and happy for the remainder of her life.
Thanks in advance for any info you can provide. I may have left some things out and if so, I’d be happy to clarify.
Kate
Hi, As a fellow dog lover, I wanted to let you know about Hubrihound. 🙂 Hubrihound is an all natural supplement for canine arthritis & hip dysplasia. It really helped my dog. 🙂 Hubrihound uses NZ Green Lipped Mussel as our main active ingredient. This ingredient helps to relieve inflammation and repair damaged joints. Green lipped mussel also helps to thicken the synovial fluid that helps keep joints (within people and animals) lubricated. In addition to green lipped mussel, Hubrihound has a unique synergistic blend of glucosamine, Vitamin E, and hand harvested sun dried Kelp found in the waters of NZ, that also contributes to the efficiency of Hubrihound. You can learn more about it at http://www.hubrihound.com. Feel free to email me at [email protected], with any questions at all. Thanks so much! 🙂
Hi Husky Mom 9710. As a fellow dog lover, I wanted to let you know about Hubrihound. Hubrihound really helped my dog. :). Hubrihound is an all natural supplement for canine arthritis & hip dysplasia. Hubrihound uses NZ Green Lipped Mussel as our main active ingredient. This ingredient helps to relieve inflammation and repair damaged joints. Green lipped mussel also helps to thicken the synovial fluid that helps keep joints (within people and animals) lubricated. In addition to green lipped mussel, Hubrihound has a unique synergistic blend of glucosamine, Vitamin E, and hand harvested sun dried Kelp found in the waters of NZ, that also contributes to the efficiency of Hubrihound. You can learn more about it at http://www.hubrihound.com. Feel free to email me at [email protected], with any questions at all. Thanks so much! 🙂
Hey EHubbman –
Glucosamine and chondroitin are fine for puppies. A dog’s natural diet (raw) would be very rich in glucosamine and chondroitin as cartilage and bones contain high levels. Dogs foods, even those with added glucosamine and chondroitin, don’t contain enough to say so – so I wouldn’t worry about it’s presence in a kibbled dog food.
I have not been able to find any evidence suggesting that supplementing a large breed puppy’s diet with glucosamine can be harmful, however I don’t believe it to be necessary either. My two get lots of RMB’s so I know their diet is rich in glucosamine and chondroitin – I probably won’t add any supplements until they’re seniors. I do, however, typically recommend that large and giant breed dogs eating processed foods receive supplemental glucosamine and chondroitin (or whole foods providing these nutrients) starting between 1 and 2 years of age (when they’re young it can be a low dose, just for maintenance).
This is an excerpt from an article about large and giant breed puppy nutrition written by integrative veterinarian Dr. Susan Wynn:
“There are no studies so far that indicate whether it is effective or harmful to supplement with glucosamine to large breed puppies because of their risk of DOD. In general, I wait until I recognize a risk factor in a dog.”
Hi,
once again would like to ask for help in choosing food for my 3.5 month Newfoundland from food available in Poland: Fromm Gold http://frommfamily.com/products/gold/dog/dry/large-breed-puppy-gold or Husse http://www.husse.co.uk/dog-food-products/dry-food-for-dogs/?product=110 or Enova http://www.enovapetfood.com/photoVideoGallery.aspx?cid=4680&mid=18452 or
Enova ADULT Breeders BAG GRAIN-FREE SIMPLE!
Complete food without cereal with fresh chicken meat. It can be administered to dogs from 2 months to 7 years old.
food without grains
addition of fresh chicken meat (min. 20%)
contains glucosamine and chondroitin supplement
Ingredients: dried chicken meat (min. 23.3%), fresh chicken meat (min. 20%), potato flour, dried green peas, chicken fat, dried beet pulp, flaxseed, dried egg protein hydrolyzate, dried yeast, fish oil, dried carrots, dried tomato puree, dried seaweed, sodium chloride, glucosamine, chondroitin.
Analytical constituents: crude protein – 31.5%, oils and fats – 19.5%, crude fiber – 3,5%, crude ash – 6,5%, calcium – 1.25%, phosphorus – 0.95% , moisture – 10.0%.
Extras: antioxidants. Dietary supplements in 1 kg of feed: Vitamin A – 15,000 IU Vitamin D3 – 1200 IU Vitamin E – 150 mg Copper (as copper sulphate pentahydrate) – 10 mg.
Analysis
protein: 31.5%
fat: 19.5%
Crude fiber 3.5%
ash 6.5%
humidity 10.0%
omega – 6 2.7%
Chondroitin 250 mg / kg
calcium 1.25%
phosphorus 1.0% – 0.95%
copper 10 mg / kg
selenium 0.2 mg / kg
iodine 2 mg / kg
Vitamin A 15,000 IU / kg
Vitamin D3 1200 IU / kg
Vitamin E 150 IU / kg
Niacin 135 mg / kg
I know that these food contain corn, but such are available in Poland as normal, not a cosmic price :/
Greetings
I’ve been wanting to start my Louie on a raw diet for awhile, he has been on kibble and his stools have always been soft and I just didn’t feel like he was getting the best nutrition possible. I’ve been reading so much on feeding raw and all the benefits and I’m so excited to start it with him. I originally was going to feed commercial frozen raw, I bought a bag of the Primal Venison nuggets, but with his size (58.5lbs) he would go through 3 bags a week of that stuff ($90/week). So I started researching the Raw Prey Model and that seemed more feasible. Ive just started shopping around for everything, but I had a couple of questions I was hoping to run by you guys. I think I may have spent a little too much time creeping on here already, I feel like I already know everyone and their dogs haha. Anyway, I was wondering first how long you freeze your meats when you buy them in the store. I read that for the pork it has to be for at least 2 weeks but what about other meats? Also, in terms of adding the vitamins and supplements is that a necessity or just depends on what you like to feed? Im thinking of including some vegetables to his diet, do they have to be cooked first and pureed? or are raw vegetables allowed. Finally, the addition of vitamins/minerals that some people include in their diets are those something that I should definitely be including because of this type of diet or its just more a personal preference type of thing. Thanks in advance for any answers.
HDM uses Swanson’s glandulars and so far I’ve used Pet GO. It is made up of body glands that aren’t normally available at the store. If you feed a whole prey then you would get these glands. I just give intermittenly, like all the other supplements.
http://mypetsfriend.com/pet-go.html
http://www.swansonvitamins.com/natural-sources-raw-multiple-60-caps
Hi Shihtzumom –
Unfortunately that supplement wouldn’t be safe for a dog. It contains green tea extract which contains caffeine, caffeine is toxic to dogs – this was actually the main reason I asked for the ingredients list, most “green” supplements for humans contain green tea extract. It also contains grape extract – grapes are toxic to dogs (grape seed extract is okay though).
If you’re feeding an unbalanced diet and want some extra nutritional assurance I’d go with a basic one a day type human multi that has no calcium or that is low in calcium (<5% dv) so you don’t throw of the calcium to phosphorus ratio of the meal. For a small dog I’d give just 1/4 of a human tablet. No, the green supplement I have posted wouldn’t be a substitute for a multi, it will however provide trace nutrients and immune boosting effects and would be great to give in addition to a multi. You could use the glandular supplement as well – you can give this as daily if you want or just a few times a week (my dogs get a capsule of a glandular three days per week).
Yeah, when I was lying in bed after doing my research on the vitamins I was thinking of alternating between the two supplements for variety. I just wasn’t sure if that would a good balance over time so yay 🙂
I actually only feed once a day because it’s easier on me (because, again, I’m lazy haha) so I would probably alternate every day or every other day.
What glandular supplement is recommended? I’ve seen a few mentioned, but I’m not 100% sure where lol. How would I include a glandular supplement (every day, every other day) and would that be something else to alternate between multiple formulas? Also, what does a glandular supplement consist of? And, what does it do, exactly (I’m thinking it supports the body’s glands but that’s a tiny bit vague lol)?
Hi mah4angel –
I use capsules and poke a hole using a thumbtack and squirt on the food. It’s generally recommended to give enough fish oil to provide 400 – 600 mg. combined EPA and DHA per 20 lbs. of body weight (most fish oil capsules have around 300 mg. per capsule).
If you plan on feeding fruits and vegetables and you’re feeding RMB’s, a fiber supplement shouldn’t be necessary. I’d also say probiotics and enzymes aren’t necessary if you’re feeding raw green tripe regularly.
For vegetables, just pick some out at the grocery store (no onions!) cook and puree them. I give my dogs about 1/2 C. per day (they’re both around 70 lbs.). Good green “super food” supplements include: kelp, alfalfa, spirulina, chlorella, wheat grass, etc. etc. I make a homemade super food supplement mixing equal parts kelp, alfalfa, wheat grass, spirulina and bee pollen (I switch up the ingredients occasionally). I give my girls 2 tsp. each – I’d say around 1/2 tsp. per 15 – 20 lbs. would be a good dose.
Hi shihtzumom –
Unfortunately I can’t seem to find an ingredient list for the “Greens Multi.” Some human multi’s (especiall those with added whole foods) can contain herbs or fruits/vegetables that are unsafe for dogs so it’s important to know that all the ingredients are safe prior to feeding.
I use both the glandular and fruit complex – they add an extra immune system “boost” but would not take the place of a multivitamin.
You can use sardines or krill oil. If you’re using krill oil give enough to provide about 400 – 600 mg. combines EPA and DHA per day per 20 lbs. body weight. If you’re feeding sardines give 1/4 can per 5 lbs., 1/2 can per 15 lbs. or 5/8 can per 25 lbs. per week.
I feel that vegetables provide important antioxidant benefits, however if your dog won’t eat them they aren’t essential. I would however be sure to add a green superfood supplements (kelp, alfalfa, spirulina, chlorella, wheat grass, etc.). Depending on whether or not you’re feeding bone, you may also need to add some supplemental fiber (such as psyllium) if you aren’t feeding any vegetables.
I also had questions about supplementation with vegetables and with fish oil!
Costco has Wild Alaskan Salmon oil pills (not in the pump like they have at Pet Smart), would these be okay? Coated or uncoated? Do I poke a hole in them and squeeze out the oil? How many mg’s of omega-3’s and 6’s does he need (what should I look for on the label as far as levels are concerned with a supplement like this)?
I also found some Herbacil Artichoke Dietary Supplement at Target, it’s in a little bottle/vile thingy in liquid form, I guess, and it contains artichoke, grapefruit, fennel, prickly pear, apple cider vinegar, and L-Carnitine. What fruit/vegetable supplements would you guys recommend? I just sort of didn’t feel right about the Herbacil (idk, I guess I was looking for something with more superfoods?), and it was a little pricey. I also had no idea how much I should be adding to his food. Maybe a powdered supplement would be better?
Right now, here’s what I’m doing for Louie:
1/2 cup raw whole chicken grind
1/2 tablespoon of golden flax (for fiber and a little extra omega-3’s and 6’s)
1/2 tablespoon of low fat plain yogurt (enzymes/probiotics)
1/2 cup of Earthborn Holistic Primitive Natural (I’ve kept this in so far because I have yet to figure out my supplementation and this formula has omega-3 sources (fish) very high up on the ingredient list as well as fruits and vegetables… Also, it wasn’t cheap to buy and I still have quite a bit left)
I’m hoping to get here:
1/2 cup raw whole grind (alternating between chicken, beef, pork, etc.)
1/2 cup XKALIBER green tripe grind (greentripe.com)
Some sort of fruit/vegetable supplement (for antioxidants and vitamins)
Some sort of omega-3 supplement (fish oil, whole fish, etc.)
RMB’s: I was giving him pork necks (which were GREAT, he LOVED them!!) but then my mother-in-law cooked them -___________- So now I’ll have to go out and somehow find pork necks for him and freeze them for 3 weeks before I can start giving them to him again, or find some chicken necks or something comparable for his size (he’s a little silky; 10 pounds)
I believe everyone said that I wouldn’t need to add any fiber, enzymes or probiotics because of the green tripe, but I’d like to be sure. Also, any fruit/vegetable supplement should contain fiber, anyway.
Your advice, as always, is much appreciated!
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This reply was modified 12 years, 5 months ago by mah4angel.
What? I’m not familiar with either of these Facebook groups (I actually don’t have a Facebook) but I can’t understand why someone wouldn’t be in support of natural supplements for an elderly dog with arthritis? Many glucosamine and chondroitin supplements are actually animal-derived (usually shellfish, shark or bovine or chicken cartilage). There are also many “animal” based supplements such as green lipped mussel, sea cucumber and velvet antler that have been proven effective. I still don’t, however, see why any one would be opposed to a plant-derived supplement either. It’s true that raw diets are high in naturally occurring GAG’s but some dogs with orthopedic issues need more than that and anti-inflammatories can help a lot in many cases.
Sorry I had to rant. I just get sick of it sometimes. Did I mention that after my post was deleted that one of the moderators mentioned Dog Gone Pain that has the exact same anti-inflammatory supplements I had mentioned! Good Lord!!!!!!!!
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This reply was modified 12 years, 5 months ago by
DieselJunki.
It was Deana. She’s fine now. Cut her back to 1/2 a tablespoon and that fixed it. Everyone is doing wonderfully! I’m not usually the type to buy into the “cure-all” hype, but my 9 year old, who has had arthritis since he came to me at 2 (old injury) is running and hopping like a pup. Everyone’s poo is NORMAL! I have one that I’ve battled runny poo off and on forever (and we’ve exhausted all medical reasons). Never diarrhea, never solid–regardless of food, eliminated foods, medicines, supplements, etc.
Good luck on that treadmill. A trainer friend of mine (she rehabs former fighting pitties, actually) relies heavily on her treadmill and swears by it. Never can get any of mine to use it. Well, Grammer does. He rides it like a carnival ride. Run run run WHEEE! Fling off the end into the side of the couch. Run Run Run WHEEEE!
If you’re looking for quality/budget friendly supplements I’d highly recommend checking out Swanson’s. I started ordering all my supplements and my dog’s supplements there. They have a wonderful selection and the prices are unbelievable. I’ve been able to cut my costs for my dogs’ meals (I feed homemade raw) by so much – paying top dollar for supplements really adds up.
I hear you about the cost of the supplements. I bought a small jar of coconut oil at the local coop just to see if I liked it. Fortunately Costco carries a giant tub of organic extra virgin for 20$ so we will be getting it there in the future.
HDM….Wholistic Pet is of my favorite supplements, too. I used to use their Joint Health for my Shih-Poo, Desi, who had both rear luxating patellas. I also swear by Springtime, Inc.’s Joint Health chews. He never had to have surgery, though he died younger than he should’ve from other things 🙁
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This reply was modified 12 years, 5 months ago by
Mom2Cavs.
I’ve used Wholistic Pet Organics products in the past – as far as pet supplements go, I think they’re about as high quality as it gets. They’re very pricey though, you could get a human product for much cheaper.
Hello again, I have been on the site many times since my last post and was hoping to get some more help again. Since my last post I took Dawson off Big Country Raw, I wasnt impressed with there customer service, most of the time my questions were brushed off and when I would place my order they seemed annoyed. Plus I found some things in the dinners I was not impressed with. So shortly after Dawson had a “sickness” episode (he was no longer on BCR) he vomited like 20 times before noon, and it was just bile. He was extremely lethargic and wouldnt eat or drink anything, but his bloodwork was relatively normal and in 2 days he was starting to be back to himself. He started drinking water on the 3rd day then the next day his appetite was back.Im fairly certain it was the freshpet he was eating that made him sick. After that episode I was afraid to start him back on raw, so I ordered in some ziwipeak air dried which he absolutely LOVES! Then once he was feeling better, i fed him ziwipeak in them am and then canned in the pm, I wanted to give him a meal with moisture in it like his raw meals. I switched his canned out for Grandma Lucy’s Artisan which he likes, and I like some things about it but its not ideal.
he has been doing well on that, but there is an Irish Wolfhound breeder at school who feeds her (very large,lol) gang raw. When we went to visit her and her wolfhound she had at school (who Dawson loved, I guess he likes the Big Girls, lol) she gave Dawson a tripe and veggie mixture to take home and try. Well He loves that and his tummy has seemed to be ok on it, which is what I had been worried about, so I was thinking about starting him back on raw, but im still nervous. I was also thinking of continuing his ziwipeak in the am, and trying the orijen freeze dried for his pm meal, but I was wondering if that would be too much fat for him to handle? He walks 2x a day, but I worry about inducing pancreatitis in him. Plus I like that the meats are free-range, antibiotic, hormone free. For raw the best I could probably do for a while would be grocery store as I cant seem to find organic free-range around here. At least until I can find a good source of meat… I really want free-range, antibiotic free meats for his tiny body, unless its ok for him to have typical “store bought” meats? If you think raw is still the best option I would like to prepare it myself this time around.
Sorry for the extremely long post, you guys are such a wealth of knowledge and the vets at school are very pro-Hills, Iams types. I really do like ziwipeak and so does Dawson, but I also want to feed him a meal with moisture in it as I think thats important too. Any input would be greatly appreciated! If you think is current diet is really decent, or if the ziwipeak, orijen freeze dried would be excellent for him, or if raw still would be the best (perhaps for his pm meal) even with store bought meats. And if you think of anything else that might help him after hissickness`supplements, tips etc. Thanks in advance, and hope you are all enjoying the long weekend!
For going all raw a lot of places suggest fasting and switching cold turkey. I still feed some kibble due to the rest of the family being squeamish, so I started by using raw as a topper for kibble, then increasing the amount.
As far as supplements go, if you are feeding whole prey, head and all, everything your dog needs should be in there. Any part that is missing takes away some necessary nutrients. Even then, due to pollution and environmental factors, I still want my dog to get extra antioxidants.
Thanks for the advice! It is just that some raw feeders feed raw with a whole lot of supplements, some feed with less supplements and then others say no to supplements. I guess I just want to make sure I don’t over do it or under do it. I know I am probably over analyzing this, but I know that raw fed incorrectly can be detrimental to a dogs health. But since my dogs are still eating mostly kibble, should I just switch one meal per day with raw and then after a week or so switch all to raw? Or just fast one night and then start raw cold turkey?
I talked with a co-worker of mine this morning and have decided not to go with the premixes. I found a local butcher that can order meat in bulk and it is not very expensive. He told me to feed 80% muscle, 10% bone and 10% organ. Is this a correct ratio? It’s not that I don’t believe him, but I thought I read somewhere else online to feed only 5% organ meat. Would a whole chicken (neck and insides included), a turkey neck and a whole fish be considered one single meal for a 115 pound dog? I have 2 other dogs, 60 pounds and 20 pounds, so I know I can just figure out the amounts to feed them based on how much I feed my 115 pound dog. I just don’t know how to formulate a meal. I know how much, in pounds, to feed based on the 2-3% of body weight and I know it is beneficial to fast them one day per week. I just don’t know how to plan the meals out right now and that is what is worrying me. Would I even need fish oil if I feed fresh frozen fish 2-3 times per week? Would I even need any other supplements or will the diet cover that?
Actually I would purchase one in an amount that could be used up in 3 months because they can become “old” with exposure to oxygen and light. My bottle of Nature’s Logic sardine oil suggests that. You would need to look at the dosages for the glucosamine and chondroitin per serving of oil to compare it to some other plain supplements and see if there would be enough. You can also alternate types of fish oils instead of using just one type. Right now I’m using krill and sardine oils.
Can anyone offer suggestions/experience/advice if vitamin or other supplements are necessary to add to a raw diet and mixed 5 star wet and 5 star kibble for a Vizsla puppy. This will be my 3rd Vizsla – want to start off doing things as best as I can this time now that I have learned more information (scared about what I didn’t know before – its no wonder the first two died of cancer). I’m all for preparing most of the raw diet recipes I’ve seen and then interchanging with some of the higher end 5 star wet and dry mixes but I don’t want to overlook any nutritional supplements that may be inadvertently left out – especially at the puppy phase.
I know this is old, but I have a question. How do you know how to dose human supplements for dogs?
Hey guys, sorry, I have some more questions regarding raw. I work at an upscale pet boutique and we sell commercial raw diets. I was given expired Nature’s Variety frozen raw for free because we obviously cannot sell that to the public. It expired in October of 2012. I was told it would be fine to feed because it has been frozen the entire time, but I’m a little uneasy to feed it. What opinions do y’all have about this? Also, if I decide to use a premix for raw instead of kibble will I need to add any supplements or will the premix have that covered (I’m assuming it will)? I like what I read about Nupro and wouldn’t mind using that as a supplement if needed. I will be adding probiotics and digestive enzymes. Do y’all recommend feeding fresh meats from the store or commercial raw to add to the premix? If I feed fresh from the store do I need to freeze for a few days to kill off any parasites? I’m just paranoid I’m going to screw something up, but I’m honestly tired of feeding kibble because no matter what the quality is it just doesn’t seem good enough for me.
I give it 3 or 4 times a week all year. But if you don’t want to do it all the time, I’d definitely recc’ at least for a week after heartworm/flea/tick meds. Some folks give milk thistle for a week after heartworm meds to detox the liver. I give supplements all the time because we live in a polluted world! Just going on walks can be somewhat toxic! Who knows what’s in other people’s yards or the dog park. Even eating kibble can be taxing on the body and certain body organs.
Her history of being on many abx suggests she needs some sort of booster as abx kill off the good and bad organisms in the gut where the immune system is. Do you give probiotics regularly? Those help seed the gut with beneficial organisms and boost the immune system.
Demodex can take a long to recover from too. Can take months even with negative scrapes. My pup was a funny looking alien for almost a year. Had demodex, hair came back, demodex again, finally got over it. This was without any kind of booster since I didn’t know about them back then.
Since giving them boosters they don’t get sick even when my fosters come in with kennel cough or other skin infection and even sarcoptic mange. And they do mingle together when it’s p/p time.
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This reply was modified 12 years, 6 months ago by
pugmomsandy.
Long story short…my dog’s paws became infected after an allergic reaction to road salt over the winter. I tried everything to heal them up but ended up having to get a shot of anti-biotics and then a round of pills. Before that she had also been on antibiotics for UTI and demodex. So she’s been on lots of antibiotics and she’s only 15 months old. Her feet are healing up but there’s still a bit of dry scaly spots on them….I do not want to see them blossom back out into infection and swelling. UGH!
She also has some sort of allergies causing itching, red ears and watering eyes. She was tested for demodex but three scrapings came back negative.
My question after the brief history of her is: What supplements can I give her to help boost her immune system to counteract all the negativity of those antibiotics in her system. I’m giving her echinacea, vitamin C, B complex, A, E and cod liver oil. Also a human grade probiotic. Good? Bad? She is now on NV LID Turkey for her diet. A small amount of canned to give the pills with.
you may try all sort of supplements for stopping it. But just an additional one elemental supplement with “Zinc” is all you need to make all you anti watery stool to be in action. These are actually quiet good in maintaining turgidity of cells and avoid excessive water loss.
Hi EHubbam –
Glad he’s enjoying his food with the canned!
Raw can be done cheaply or it can be done very expensively. I’ve gotten VERY savvy at cutting costs over the years and am now feeding all three of my hounds for ~$350 per month (not too shabby when you consider I’m going through around 200 lbs. of meat a month + fruits/veggies and other extras like eggs and kefir + supplements). Homemade is MUCH cheaper – I get all my meat from a wholesale supplier that supplies local restaurants and grocery stores (truck come right to my house, I order ~300 lbs. per shipment) and I order my supplements from Swanson’s (low cost human supplements).
The food i would Suggest eliminates Chicken, Potato and ANY grain altogether.. its called Canine Caviar. it has venison, duck, or herring available for the grain free diets. its very similar to a raw diet but in kibble form (dehydrated raw pretty much).
this food has prebiotics and probiotics in the food so its Fantastic for allergy prone dogs, it also has Kelp which is good for fighting off any pollutants as well.
I would HIGHLY recommend this food since you would not have to add any supplements to the food at all. look the food up, its extremely limited in the ingredients and you will understand what each ingredient is which is always a benefit.
this food will help with dogs who throw up a lot, i work in a global pet foods in Ontario and ive seen this food do fantastic things for dogs with the exact same symptoms. i hope this helps.
The food i would Suggest eliminates Chicken, Potato and ANY grain altogether.. its called Canine Caviar. it has venison, duck, or herring available for the grain free diets. its very similar to a raw diet but in kibble form (dehydrated raw pretty much).
this food has prebiotics and probiotics in the food so its Fantastic for allergy prone dogs, it also has Kelp which is good for fighting off any pollutants as well.
I would HIGHLY recommend this food since you would not have to add any supplements to the food at all. look the food up, its extremely limited in the ingredients and you will understand what each ingredient is which is always a benefit.
You can do an elimination diet. Try a single protein and single carb for 2 weeks and check for reactions. Example fish and sweet potato. Or fish and quinoa (gluten free). Be sure no treats are given unless it’s the single protein or carb. You can add in a vit/mineral supplement later as a dog can have a reaction to any ingredient including supplements and you wouldn’t know if it was the food or supplement.
You can google more on elimination diets as there are probably some variations.
I found that there is a lot of good information and recommendations about supplements including probiotics on dogaware dot com.
When I give human supplements to my dogs I just open the capsule and mix it with the food. I base the serving size off a 100 lb. person. So for example I’d give a 25 lb. dog 1/4 the recommended human dose, a 50 lb. dog 1/2 the recommended human dose, a 75 lb. 3/4 the recommended human dose and a dog >100 lbs. the full human dose. There really is no risk of “overdosing” with probiotics so you don’t need to stress too much about getting the dose exactly right.
