[Anonymous]

Been there and back. I just took my 15 year old guy in for a geriatric checkup, his labwork is better than mine. He does have some age related issues.

He has no symptoms of UTIs or stones, I watch him urinate, normal flow, amount, no difficulty. So the vet said no need for x-rays or testing this and that, UNLESS HE HAS SYMPTOMS.

He had bladder stones, struvite and oxalate, emergency surgery in 2011. I put him on that food you mentioned, it was okay….but then I always added a little cooked chicken to it.
The vets wanted to x-ray him every 3 months, I went along with it a couple of times, when they saw a couple of small stones had returned and offered no treatment? I didn’t follow up.

He prefers Wysong senior or Nutrisca salmon and chickpea, wet food is probably better. However, I use kibble and soak it overnight in water, plus add water and a bite of cooked chicken, 4 small meals per day, offer frequent bathroom breaks. Water, and frequent bathroom breaks are very important, keep the bladder flushed.

If you click on my user name you will find posts/threads related to bladder stones, or use the search engine.
I am reluctant to discuss supplements anymore, because it depends on the type of stones your dog has as to what might be helpful. Therefore it is best to ask your vet for recommendations.

PS: Next time it says you are not logged in , try the refresh button.

[Jeaneene S]

I really wanted to put this in the “Struvite Crystals” thread – but for some reason that particular page always shows me as *not* logged in, even when I log in from within that thread.

Anyway, I could use some help. I have a 10 1/2 year old male Siberian Husky who has – his entire life – been on Beneful dry dog food and never had any health problems AT ALL. At one point I tried to change to the Blue Wilderness (thinking it might be better for them), but he and my 10 1/2 year old female Husky had the worst diarrhea I’ve ever seen, so it was back to the Beneful kibble. (I’ve always heard dry kibble is best for dental health, which is why that’s all I’ve ever used)

Now, this past February my big boy had what appeared to be an awful UTI. So the next day, I got a good urine catch (looked super cloudy, but just yellow) and took it and him to the vet. Vet found no crystals but lots of blood (at the microscopic level) in his urine, and did an xray, but didn’t find anything wrong. She put him on antibiotics and it was gone.

On May 1 we moved to a new house, and got a new vet – had all the dogs’ files brought to the new vet (I brought them myself so I knew they wouldn’t get lost). Then, on Memorial Day, I noticed he looked like he was having a hard time urinating again and to my horror it looked as if he was even peeing blood. Immediately called the new vet and explained what it *appeared* to be; she said that even though they were closed, she would call in an rx for Amoxicillin for him. No more than a few days of being off the antibiotics, and we started having problems AGAIN (thankfully not peeing blood this time). So, hubby took him to the Vet this past Monday and with a different kind of xray, she found 1 stone the size of a quarter, 3 stones the size of a nickel, and about 15 smaller ones. Needless to say my big boy went in for surgery yesterday morning (I am picking him up today).

Now the vet is telling me that I have to put him on the Royal Canin SO food (which she has already said he’s been turning his nose up at the vet’s), and the only treats he can have is if I take the Royal Canin SO canned food, cut it up in to squares and bake them into “treats”. We’re talking about a dog who is used to his mommy throwing a steak on the grill to mix in with his food (well, him and the other 3 girl dogs in the house) … getting bell peppers, apples and other fruits/veggies as treats, having watered-down applesauce popsicles, etc. Now she’s saying he can never have any of this ever again AND I have to give him this food that appears to me to be very poor quality and that he doesn’t like?! I’m having a very hard time accepting this.

I asked the vet at the Petsmart (where I am having to get the food) for a second opinion – and oddly enough – he seconded that opinion. How do I tell his regular vet that I don’t approve of this dog food, and that I’d LIKE to try a more vitamin-based/holistic approach as well as make his food for him which I feel would be better quality – not to mention cheaper – and where I can add the necessary added vitamins and minerals and would still prevent any further bladder stone issues.

Should trust both his new vet and the Banfield vet at Petsmart (his previous vet – when I called her last week also said he may have to go on a special diet for the remainder of his life too, so that makes three)? I’m willing to make his food, give him the supplements, test his urine … ANYTHING! Or am I just being unreasonable? And would it be “wrong” to go against the vet and do what I *think* is right?

• This topic was modified 10 years, 6 months ago by Jeaneene S.

[Sarah A]

Hi Susan,

Thanks for responding. I’m giving the Tylosin in capsules. I know it tastes awful – I don’t let her taste it!

Talked to the vet yesterday. She said that even tho salmon might be higher in fat, it’s bioavailable fat that gets absorbed almost immediately in the stomach and therefore doesn’t make the pancreas work hard. The worst meat for a dog w/ pancreatitis is pork, followed by beef. Lots of saturated fat in those. She also recommended krill oil as a supplement – for the omega-3’s and to help her skin.

If anyone else has any other ideas I’m all ears. Lucie has gained a bit of weight back but she needs to gain more.

Thanks!!
Sarah

[mah4angel]

Hello all!

It’s been a really long time since I’ve posted here. To those of you who remember my puppy Louie, he’s doing great on his raw diet ^_^
My question pertains to the process of switching to a whole prey feeding method (i.e. handing my pup a whole bunny/quail/mouse/whatever to eat whole).
Is feeding whole prey less expensive? Is it a whole and balanced feeding method? How do I make the switch to feeding this way?
I currently feed my Louie half a pre-prepped raw diet by The Petstaurant (alternating between protein sources) in the morning and greentripe.com’s Exkalibur blend in the evening with appropriate supplements that I can’t remember the ratios of because I figured them out ages ago and now it’s more autopilot than anything.
I’m mainly wondering if the cost of feeding whole prey is more financially friendly. I don’t mind the idea of feeding this way at all- I’m not a squeamish person by any stretch.
I googled whole prey feeding in various iterations but most results were about prey model raw which is not what I was looking for.

Thanks in advance for any replies and suggestions!

[Pitlove]

Thanks C4C! I work myself into anxiety over making sure he’s getting the best (the cat too of course). I feel a lot better about feeding a lower protein dry now that I know I can supplement with the high protein in the canned food. Didnt think about it like that before!

I have so many foods for him right now its really nice. 4Health and Pure Balance canned. Fromm Four Star GF, Pure Balance and some samples of Precise Holisitic Complete for dry and THK dehydrated raw. He had THK this morning and really liked it. He also got a sample of raw food from this store we went to yesterday and had that mixed in with his canned last night with no dry! he LOVED it! and great poops this morning too 😀

[aquariangt]

I keep both high quality. Minimal red ingredients is huge, and then protein levels. With Liesl, who has some allergies, she gets 50% dry and 50% wet. Dani is more 75% Dry and 25% Wet, because she can eat much higher protein kibbles. Liesl’s kibbles that she can eat are more in the 27-30% range, so I supplement with a lot more wet food. Dani is really more like 35-45% protein for her kibble

[LexiDog]

Wow! Your pup is sooo lucky to have found you!! Some people on here have suggested Satin Balls. They are high calorie treats/supplement food to help dogs gain weight. You make them and I am sure you could modify the recipe so that they are grain free.

I’m so glad he ate last night!! That is progress! Are you going to try to thaw it out a little bit more each day so he will be eventually eating it thawed? That might work.

[Anonymous]

Consider seeing a specialist. If the regular vet has not been helpful…..

Or go homeopathic http://www.vitalanimal.com

Nausea is a symptom of liver disease, so maybe his issues are not under control? Ask your vet.

PS: All supplements and medications have to go through the liver to get detoxified….so, sometimes less is better (imo)

[Frances A]

Has anyone tried Natures Variety Raw Daily Boost supplement?

[Frances A]

I started my pups (mini schnauzer and GSD) on a total raw diet and then got over whelmed. Switched to a frozen raw and then to kibble and canned. My husband was not a fan of the canned and said we could make our own homemade (which is much less expensive.) I’m now giving them both Natures Variety Kibble and a homecooked chicken, veggies, salmon and coconut oil, yogurt and some pumpkin food. I’m liking the way it’s going. I am going to add a supplement though, which is what I’m researching now.

[Bobby dog]

c4c:
Good info to have about potassium citrate use decreasing chances of calcium oxalate stone formation, not struvite, by increasing urine alkalinity.

Here’s some links to info on supplements and struvite & calcium oxalate uroliths:
http://www.cvm.umn.edu/depts/minnesotaurolithcenter/recommendations/home.html
http://www.vetstreet.com/dl-methionine-rx
http://www.vetstreet.com/potassium-citrate-supplement

[Anonymous]

Q: How can I prevent my dog from developing cystine bladder stones in the future?

A: Dogs that have developed cystine bladder stones in the past will often be fed a therapeutic diet for life. Diets that promote alkaline urine that is more dilute are recommended. Most dogs should be fed a canned or wet diet to encourage water consumption. Dilute urine with a low urine specific gravity (USpG less than 1.020) is an important part of the prevention of calcium oxalate bladder stones. In certain cases, medications such as n-(mercaptoropionyl)-glycine (2-MPG) (ThiolaTM) may be required. Urinary alkalinizers may be needed to maintain an alkaline urine ph of greater than 7.5.

In addition, careful routine monitoring of the urine to detect any signs of bacterial infection is also recommended. Bladder x-rays and urinalysis will typically be performed one month after treatment and then every three to six months for life. Dogs displaying any clinical signs such as frequent urinations, urinating in unusual places, painful urination or the presence of blood in the urine should be evaluated immediately. Unfortunately, cystine stones have a high rate of recurrence, despite careful attention to diet and lifestyle.

Above is an excerpt from http://www.michigananimalhospital.com/page/452281614

It sounds more complicated than it is, increase water, frequent bathroom breaks, make sure dog is urinating normal flow and amount and not having difficulty.

Otherwise, find the appropriate diet (veterinarian/nutritionist approved), continue healthy lifestyle, walks, play.

Follow veterinarian’s recommendation for testing, medication, supplements.

Give us an update, hope all goes smoothly.

[Anonymous]

Tell your friend he should ask the surgeon who operated on the dog for a referral to a specialist. This dog will need to be monitored carefully at least for the first year for reoccurrence and to get the diet, medications, supplements just right.

If your friend prefers a more natural approach, consult a homeopath http://theavh.org/

http://vitalanimal.com/

Check out Wysong dog food, maybe someone at their 800 number could advise you

I don’t think the internet is a good place to get advice when you have something this serious, we can share our experiences….but that doesn’t mean that is what you should do, as far as I know there are no veterinarians or nutritionists here (none that have identified themselves as such anyway)
Best of luck

BTW: Dogs can have more than one 1 type of stones. Low protein diets can cause other types of stones to develop, that’s why you need the expertise of a specialist.

Add water to all meals, frequent bathroom breaks. For my dog 3-4 small meals per day instead of 2 regular seems to help too.

[CircaRigel]

Ok, Just talked to my contact (Galen’s breeder), and at the seminar, the expert (who raises great danes) Pat Hastings states that the puppy foods are a bunch of empty calories, and does not advocate using them, especially with giant breeds. She advocates weaning directly to adult foods, provided those foods have the low calcium/phosphorus levels at approximately 1% and a 1:1 ratio, and supplementing with raw, if possible (Galen is supplemented with Tripett food… green beef tripe). I don’t have a list of foods yet, but Galen’s breeder will be sharing that as soon as it’s made available, so it’s up to the individual to make sure they have the adequate numbers. I’ll be calling Canidae today to find out what the Calcium and Phosphorus numbers are for each of the foods in Canidae’s Grain Free Pure line of foods. I reviewed some Grain Free Pure Land a while back, and was quite impressed, and like that there are only 7 key ingredients.

[Anonymous]

http://www.entirelypets.com/k-plus-potassium-citrate-plus-cranberry-300-tabs.html?cmp=nextag&mr:referralID=2b34b4bd-6c95-11e2-b779-001b2166c62d

All I know is that it appears to be working for my dog, he had both struvite and calcium oxalate stones. He has not had a recurrence since his surgery (2011) he turns 15 next month. I listened to the advice of a veterinarian.

DL-Methionine is a prescription medication that I am not familiar with, my vet told me to try the potassium citrate supplements first. After testing a few times his ph lowered nicely. I still think increased water is the key.

For dogs, calcium oxalate stones are more concerning than struvite, often the struvite clears up when the infection (antibiotics) is eliminated and increased water is added to the diet.

The treatment for cats is different than for dogs, that’s why it is important to work with a veterinarian regarding treatment choices. Not a DIY

Articles are not always correct, neither is information shared on the internet, I take it all with a grain of salt.

[crazy4cats]

LM-
You have mentioned using potassium citrate supplements. Don’t they increase pH? With struvite crystals, the pH needs to be lowered. DL-Methionine is the supplement that I have seen mentioned in a few articles that reduces the pH to help avoid the formulation of struvite crystals.

[InkedMarie]

Cotons Mom: I feed prey model raw, in ground form. It is meat, bone, organs & some have tripe. I add a scoop of tripe to the ones that don’t have it. Prey model does not need anything else. I add supplements for specific purposes: ACV, Bug Off Garlic, salmon oil, eggs, joint supplement for one; no vitmins. Not needed.

I add the above to breakfast meal, nothing at dinner. Did I answer your question?

[Ronda G]

I have a Bulldog who has had problems with struvite crystals. She had to have stones removed when she was 4 months old. She was also put on the Hills for life. I just hated the ingredients and thought she was not getting the proper nutrition. It was recommended by folks on here or another forum( I read so many) to try Solid Gold Berry Balance, it is a supplement you can add to a better ingredient food. Depending on weight of your dog you add twice a day for the first month then once a day 3 times a week. AND IT HAS WORKED. I check her urine on a regular basis and her ph has been good, no problems. I just ordered my second shipment, the first one lasted over 2 months.

[Bobby dog]

Well that just shows you what type of foods you are researching, the better foods!!

Of course you’ll have to make your own determination about feeding Evanger’s. IMO it is too bad they have such issues because they make some affordable foods and also co-pack for some nice brands too.

Here’s the info I was remembering about K3 and seafood in pet food. This is from the 2012 edition of Applied Veterinary Clinical Nutrition:
“Cat foods rich in fish (> 25% fish on a dry matter basis) are currently required by states that adopt Association of American Feed Control Officials (AAFCO) guidelines (see Chapter 5) to add vitamin K3 or menadione and not the natural form vitamin K1 or phylloquinone found in foods such as green leafy vegetables. Occasionally, the safety of oral menadione supplementation is raised as a concern, but the basis of these concerns is not supported by the published literature as only parenteral delivery can be harmful (NRC 2006).”

[chris]

So for supplements I wrote down to try:
Sauerkraut
Plain Yogurt
Swanson’s soil-based Organisms
Canned Green Tripe
Kafir

I’m going to try each and see how it goes. I read a lot up on it earlier and heard from a good amount that I should start very slow in it to get there stomach use to it. So figured I might give 1/4 cup each time for now.

I’ll definitely be trying those frozen treats Bobby Dog! I have a dairy farm near by that started it’s own home made ice cream straight off the farm. They recently started making there own dog ice cream and I was buying him a container of that here and there the past few weeks.

Naturella- Yeah, my local pet store has boxes of free samples soon as you walk in the front door and he tells us to take as many as we want. There mostly little sample bags of natures variety, natures balance, and canidae, no canned food or treats sadly.

[Bobby dog]

Hello:
I also rotate probiotics for my zoo, but if all is going well I don’t add them to their diets. I feel less is more when they are healthy. The times I have used probiotics for Bobby is when he has had skin and fur issues; I know other posters use them for transitions to new foods and other health issues. When those skin & fur issues disappeared I continued probiotics for another month then I slowly stopped. I always have them on hand when/if I need them. At this time all is well and his body appears to be producing the healthy bacteria he needs so I don’t supplement with them.

I do feed Bobby kefir two or three times a month right now. He really loves it so it’s just a healthy treat I give him mixed with blueberries or other fruit. In the summer I freeze kefir cubes with fruit that he can eat outside and in the winter it’s more of a smoothie treat.

Also, I have had success using yogurt with live cultures and kefir, but there are times when you need more cfu’s per serving. I like and have used the Swanson product Naturella mentioned in her post. Right now I use Actipet Ultra Probiotic for my kitty who has Hyper-T and has skin problems. I have played around with not using probiotics or limiting them and he seems to do better with a dose at least three times a week.

Here’s some info on kefir and yogurt:
http://ottawavalleydogwhisperer.blogspot.com/2012/05/foods-rich-in-probiotics-beneficial-for.html

[crazy4cats]

Hi Guys-
Another thing to note about Perfect Form is the fact that it contains ingredients such as slippery elm that help soothe the digestive tract. Slippery Elm is highly recommended by many to help with loose stools and diarrhea. But, someone on this site mentioned the fact that if used for very long periods of time, it could hinder with some nutrient absorption. After a little research, I found that it could be true. So I now limit my use of Perfect Form and other supplements that contain slippery elm to when my dogs’ are needing it due to who knows what they got in to sometimes!

I now rotate supplements as well.

[Anonymous]

Try the search engine toward the top of the forum home page, look up fish oil.

The most cost effective way is to just get the human fish oil capsules at the drugstore, at present I am using Sundown Naturals 1200mg, I put 1 capsule a day in their morning meal and they chew/gulp it down. They are small dogs. I take one a day too 🙂

Most dogs can tolerate one capsule a day, in my experience. I wouldn’t give more, unless your vet advises so.

If you want to be more careful, look into salmon oil or fish oil supplements specific for dogs from pet supply places and go by the directions on the jar.

The only side effects I know of are, fish breath or loose stools, I have not observed either with my dogs.

PS: My old guy will be 15 next month, he weighs 12 pounds. It is just a supplement, but I think it helps a little.
I have heard good things about krill oil, but it is more expensive.

[Naturella]

Pitlove, great minds think alike apparently! 🙂

Just one thing – I had posted a while back about feeding Perfect Form continuously and was advised not to because the dog’s stomach can eventually build resistance to the enzymes in it and when it actually needs it, it won’t work for it anymore. You can go to my profile and look at my topics started and find the one on Perfect Form and see what people said. So I just keep it to use as needed for loose stool – works like magic!

Also, I believe that even with probiotics, or any supplements, it is still good to rotate them – for example, do kefir for a while, some good plain yoghurt for a while, and a good probiotic supplement like Swanson’s Soil-Based Organisms for a while, then start over.

• This reply was modified 10 years, 6 months ago by Naturella.

[Pitlove]

Thank you Naturella thats exactly what i was talking about as an idea for Chris to do! You stated it perfectly. Rather than blending the foods just feed ANY food you find interested that you’d like Sparky to try for a couple weeks or however long it lasts for then switch!

Chris- The supplement I have is made by the Honest Kitchen and its called Perfect Form

http://www.thehonestkitchen.com/treats-supplements/supplements/perfect-form

i have the 5.5oz jar. I dont follow their instructions for how much to feed. i just do about one pinch on my kittens food and two or three pinches for the dog. i felt it their guildlines where far too much. maybe im wrong but idk this has been working for me. you can feed it however you want. I got the Kefir at walmart for a little over 3$. there are feeding guidelines for that on the internet too. they tell you to cut the number in half when first giving it to get their stomach used to it.

[Bobby dog]

I haven’t fed Solid Gold my pet stores don’t carry it and I don’t want to order a case, but I have fed other brands. Don’t remember if they were balanced, I know one was for supplemental feeding.

[chris]

Yeah like I said I done so much research and it sounds like a small hernia to and feels like one too so that would be my guess. He seems to be not bothered by it anymore and acts back to normal now.

That does not surprise me one bit on the canned tripe. I’m sure he’ll enjoy it!

Yeah most people tend to any animal they own as they would a child. I kind of baby my dog to the point my family looks at me strangely. You can’t help it especially when the dog expresses the love in return. I have never put him in a cage, I made him an actual raised dog bed the level of my bed and he sleeps in that beside me all night. In my avatar picture is what he is laying on and I made him steps going up to it. He’s spoiled rotten haha!

Pitlove- So you mean buy a small 5 pound bag and mix it inside his Merrick’s once in a while? I actually have the Kafir written down as well so I remember to buy some of that as well. What Digestive supplement do you use?

I have went through 11 pounds of the Merrick’s already and I bought that at the beginning of the month. That is giving him 1/2 cup with wet food in the morning and 1-2 cups during the evening.

• This reply was modified 10 years, 6 months ago by chris.

[Pitlove]

chris and naturella- Orijen and even merrick arent always for everyone, however with the protein and all being similar I figured it couldn’t hurt to suggest. My dog from the beginning has always eaten a high protein food. I refuse to feed anything under 30% protein on a dry matter basis. I find there are far less carbs when you get into that realm and animal protein and fat is easier to digest than carbs and plant proteins for any healthy dog.

Also Chris, if there is ever a food u want to try but the price is outlandish, you can always get the smallest size bag and add that to the rotation to give him some variety and then next bag can be the cheaper but still good food. i have a 66lb AmStaff (named Bentley since we are sharing lol) and I keep him at his ideal weight with a 13.2oz can of whatever I have of wet food and 1/2 cup of whatever dry food he’s on with a digestive supplement in the morning and kefir at night and Im able to get 5 lb bags and have them last for a month if not a little longer. The Tripe is also an excellent idea, however as it is for supplemental feeding only you would probably find yourself feeding more dry with the Tripe. I have yet to try Tripe but I have heard the same thing Naturella said about the smell!

[Pitlove]

Chris- I completely understand the budget thing. I feed canned food as well as dry to supplement the lack of moisture in the dry food and I have to go as cheap as I can with the canned without stooping down to Pedigree etc. So I use some 4 and 5 star canned foods from Tractor Supply and Walmart.

Natural Balance is a big seller at my store as well. Personally I dont like the food and I dont like the company now that it was sold to Del Monte. They dont have the greatest track record and I personally feel their food is way to high in carbs and they over use white potato as a main ingredient leaving their protein far too low for my taste.

Being that I feed canned as well I only need a 5 or 6 lb bag of dry food as he only gets 1/2 cup of dry with his can of wet, so even though for some of the Orijen I’ve paid 26$ for it, it didnt really bother me. But i understand that buying their largest bag usually at over 100$ is not something most people can do.

I used to buy Nature’s Variety as well. I really liked the brand but back when I bought large bags I only bought NV because we were getting 40% for the whole year as employees lol!

[LexiDog]

Check out Dr. Beckers video on yeasty dogs…it talks about diet, supplements and disinfecting the yeasty parts.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=gl_X1I1GJ1Q

[Pitlove]

My dog also once had a sensitive stomach and couldnt handle change in food. I give him a digestive health supplement made by The Honest Kitchen in the morning and a probiotic (kefir, you can use yogurt as well) with his dinner. I do it for the cat too. Now he’s able to eat a different food every bag without blending his food and no upset stomach.

Btw, I have an American Staffordshire Terrier. Not exactly the same as a Bull Terrier, but sometimes still considered similar.

• This reply was modified 10 years, 6 months ago by Pitlove.

[c-monkey]

Hi Heather, my Buddy has Osteosarcoma (not Mast Cell). We just found out that the cancer spread to his lungs. He’s on a second round of “chemo”, and believe it or not, he’s feeling better than he was before starting the chemo (chemotherapy is very different for dogs, they seem to tolerate it far better than we do). I feed him FreshPet grain-free slice and serve on top of good dry food which I vary from month to month. I don’t worry as much about the treats (I did at first, but grain-free treats start to get expensive, and many of them he wouldn’t eat).
I strongly recommend a curcumin supplement. I use Curcuvet, found on Amazon. Buddy was given 1-3 months to live last October after his amputation surgery, and he’s still happy, jumping around and enjoying life today. I also give him “k-9 Immunity plus” treats, about 6 per day (he’s approx. 71lbs after the surgery).
I understand about being “in his face” too much, LOL! I am forever fretting if Buddy behaves in any way different than usual. Just don’t forget to relax and enjoy your time with him too (that’s what everyone tells me too, sometimes we forget when we are all bunched up with worry).

Good luck and keep us posted!

[Anonymous]

I have never used that product. I have used Wysong dry foods, and have noted no adverse effects. I use potassium citrate tabs, as I have mentioned before.
So far, so good.
A lot of these items are acidic (leading to nausea, stomach upset) to lower the urine PH.
Maybe lower the dose? Some dogs tolerate these supplements better than others.
I would put in a call to the vet, have him call you back when he has a minute. Don’t bother discussing the matter with the vet tech (just my opinion).

[DogFoodie]

Hi Chris,

I’ve used, for myself and my dogs, Thorne Research and Standard Process supplements. My vets, both of whom are integrative, recommend their products as well.

Thorne Research: https://shop.thorne.com/products/veterinary/all-veterinary-products
Standard Process: http://www.standardprocess.com/Veterinary-Formulas

[Sean]

Hi Chris, this site (https://labdoor.com/rankings/fish-oil) is pretty useful. They analyze supplements for accuracy and rank them.

[Pitlove]

I just wanted to point out how similar the ingredients in these 2 Science Diet formulas are. One is the prescription your dog is on and one is a food you can find at any pet store without a prescription

http://www.hillspet.com/products/pd-canine-id-canine-gastrointestinal-health-dry.html

vs

http://www.hillspet.com/products/sd-canine-adult-sensitive-stomach-and-skin-dry.html

both meant for “sensitive stomachs”

None of the ingredients that are in your dogs food need a prescription at all, but you are paying the premium price for a prescription food only meant to aid in disgestive health..

Point being, there are many budget friendly ways to help your dogs tummy. Amy A made a great point about adding the supplement/pre and probiotics. Your dogs stomach is sick which is why she has digestive upset. Putting healthy bacteria back into her gut will allow her stomach to become healthy and be on any food she wants without the runs.

You can defintely start with something LID to ease her off the prescription diet. I would really consider adding the some type of probiotic like kefir or plain yogurt and a supplement because when you take a dog from a food like Science Diet to a higher quality food that has biologically appropriate ingredients (not corn and brewers rice) they need all the help they can get adjusting to the better quality food.

Nature’s Variety makes a really good LID food. Natural Balance while I dont like the food does as well. LID diets tend to be a little lower in protein and other things as well which is what Susan mentioned about keeping the levels similar as to not shock the system. If your dog has been on the same food for the better part of her life that is also contributing to the sensitive stomach.

This video from holistic vet Dr. Karen Becker might also help you too

• This reply was modified 10 years, 6 months ago by Pitlove.
• This reply was modified 10 years, 6 months ago by Pitlove.
• This reply was modified 10 years, 6 months ago by Pitlove.

[LexiDog]

When you do get her switched over, try adding a digestive enzyme/probiotic/prebiotic supplement to help aide digestion.

I use Herbsmith Micro Flora Plus.

[Sean]

Hi, I was just curious if anyone has used this and has any feedback? I’m mainly looking to add it to my boston terrier’s breakfast. We usually use wet food as a topper but this seems like an interesting alternative.

Here are the ingredients:
Bison Liver, organic beef liver, beef liver, organic beef heart, beef heart, cold milled chia seed, dried organic spinach, dried organic pumpkin, dried organic carrot, ascorbic acid (natural preservative and source of Vitamin C)

Analysis:
Crude protein (min): 50%; Crude Fat (min): 18%; Crude Fiber (max): 3%; Moisture (max): 10%; Carbohydrate (max): 15%; Perfectly Balanced fatty acid profile: Omega 3: 2.7% Omega 6: 2.7% DHA + EPA (min): .10%

[Anonymous]

Contact dermatitis is atopic dermatitis (described in the article above).
I got incorrect information from the regular vet, I know you want to minimize the symptoms and find a solution, food, medication, shampoos, supplements, dehumidifier, air purifier…..

That’s what I did too, if you read my posts, you’ll see that nothing worked until my dog saw the specialist and started allergy specific immunotherapy.
Most allergens are airborne, impossible to avoid.

Now she can roll around in the grass! Eat a variety of things, in fact she has cooked chicken several times a week.

It’s so frustrating to watch people go through this with their pets. They don’t want to spend the money to go to a specialist and yet they end up spending much more than that going back and forth to the regular vet and buying all kinds of things that don’t work.

Not to mention all the discomfort the dog goes through.

PS: The supplements and diet and frequent baths have their place, in fact I still bath my dog once a week with Malaseb or a GNC antifungal shampoo for dogs. But they are not strong enough (alone) the stop the symptoms.

Some good info here http://www.allergydogcentral.com/

Also, allergies get worse with age, not better. My dog is so much more relaxed now, it’s like a different personality. They can become snappy and neurotic with all that pruritus.

The symptoms you describe sound worse than what my dog had, and she was suffering.

[Pitlove]

I cant really diagnois what the issue would be, however i think making a change to his food is a really good start. You’re paying a premium price (50$ at Petco for the largest bag of the Large Breed Light) for corn, rice and by-products. I certainly think you could find a better food for that price or perhaps a little more that has better ingredients.

Not sure what your bugdet is so it would be hard to recommend a food for you.

/dog-food-reviews/hills-science-diet-dog-food-adult-dry/

The Large Breed Light falls under this rating.

A lot of people believe that their dog has a “sensitive stomach”. What a sensitive stomach actually is, is a lack of healthy bacteria in the gut which allow the dog to change brands and proteins frequently without digestive upset. Just like a human a dog should be able to eat any type of dog food (unless they have a known allergy to a certain protein or carb etc) and not have digestive upset at all.
The stomach becoming unable to adjust to diet change, is due to eating the same food for many years or even months.
My dog used to be the same way. If i did have to change his food and did it too fast, he would get diaherra for a few days. Since adding digestive supplements to his diet and a probiotic (i use kefir, you can use plain yogurt too) I have been able to switch what brand he eats every bag without blending his food and he has no diaherra at all. Quite a few people on this site are actually able to do that with their dogs too.

Just because you see no reason to change the dogs food, it doesnt mean your dog wouldnt enjoy variety in his diet. I highly doubt you would be happy eating chicken and rice for every meal of every day for the rest of your life. Your dog isnt happy doing that either.

Companies will tell you not to change your dogs diet. However its not because its in the best interest of your dogs health, its because they will keep you spending your money with their company. My dog eats a different brand every bag of kibble and a different canned food as well each meal. If i could afford to buy X amount of bags of kibble and change that every day I would do that too.

L M gave you some good advice about determining what the root cause of the itching and hair loss etc is, but diet is the foundation of good health, so starting there never hurts!

GL, keep us updated!

• This reply was modified 10 years, 7 months ago by Pitlove.
• This reply was modified 10 years, 7 months ago by Pitlove.
• This reply was modified 10 years, 7 months ago by Pitlove.

[Anonymous]

They don’t give a price? I saw it at http://www.entirelypets.com/ansalmonoiljoint16oz.html
but it’s been discontinued by the manufacturer, no explanation.
Plus, it doesn’t look like there is very much glucosamine in it…compared to the supplements I use.

I like GNC supplements, they also have some dog items I use.

[Stefanie K]

My dog is a 10.5 year old male chihuahua-mix, about 12lbs.

I’m considering adding a supplement to his diet. Our vet briefly mentioned we could add glucosamine to his diet, but I didn’t follow up on it.

Let me tell you more about my dog: I adopted him and his brother when he was 3. He was pretty fat, but over the years he’s gotten nice and trim. He was very active, we a lot walk every day (but not in winter!), and up until last summer he would come jogging and hiking with me. He always ate kibble, but usually the better quality “holistic”/”grain-free” kind. He was eating Acana the past couple of years. And then, just as I had switched to a “senior” formula, we found a bladder stone 🙁 Since his surgery a few months ago, he’s been on a vet prescription diet (Urinary S/O).

Though he’s made a great recovery, a couple weeks ago he injured his paw, and while the vet did not find anything serious, he suggested adding glucosamine to his diet. I’m scared of taking him hiking until I can be sure he’s not in any pain.

Issue number 2 is the shedding. This dog takes shedding to a whole new level. Its not caused by any health problems according to the vet, he just sheds. I’m wondering if omega-3 might help?

So- I’m looking for any recommendations for a supplement that might combine glucosamine and “joint-stuff” with omega-3 “fur-stuff”. And of course, it has to not interfere with his prescription diet which he needs to continue, so no food changes, just an additive. Does such a thing exist? Or will it have to be two separate products? Or maybe a product that has a lot of good things including glucosamine and omega-3?

[JeffreyT]

Check out Dr. Karen Becker’s articles on yeast. I do her povidine foot soak for itchy paws and it’s helped.
http://healthypets.mercola.com/sites/healthypets/archive/2011/05/03/eating-these-foods-can-make-your-dog-itch-like-crazy.aspx

The fresh and frozen raw are probably the healthiest and most cost effective but the bulk of my pups’ diet is a variety of freeze dried raw, with water added to rehydrate. They are Stella and Chewys, Primal, Orijen, and Stewarts Bison. Their favorites are Trudog, Only Natural Niblets and Vital Essentials…I soak these overnight.

For a quick meal I give the air dried raw from Real Meat Food Co or Ziwi Peak and rotate between brands and proteins.

Be prepared for a cleansing reaction, like loose stools, which could happen as you go to better foods. You may want to consider adding digestive enzymes and probioitics to help with potential digestive issues when changing…I use in most meals, it also supports the immune system and overall health.

Also consider having Perfect Form on hand from Honest Kitchen or canned pumpkin, and give during transition for stomach issues. But first check to see if it’s ok to give to yeasty dog, not sure.

Fish oil can help itchy skin and also good for heart, joints, brain, etc. Good brands for these supplements include Mercola Krill, Animal Essentials, Dr. Peter Tobias, Wholistic Pet Organics and Natures Farmacy.

Good luck!

[Anonymous]

“This is so confusing….the more research I do, the less I know what to feed my itchy baby”.

IMO, you are over thinking it. Just find a limited ingredient food that agrees with her, keep it simple. And make an appointment with a dermatologist….that is what I would do.

Food and supplements are not cures, chronic conditions need the expertise of a specialist.
Especially a senior dog (over 7 years old).

[jakes mom]

Well, somebody ate the raw I put out for their dinner. Don’t know who or how many. I put a spoonful on each plate along with their usual canned. They all looked at it and sniffed, then looked at me very suspicious! lol! I didn’t see anybody even take a nibble. I left them alone and went to look again later on. The raw was gone!
I agree with their logic, too. But as I told them in my email, I don’t want to pay for something they won’t eat. Don’t mind giving something from the sample pack to Jake if the cats don’t like it but certainly won’t waste money buying it again. We can always supplement the raw with occasional cans for variety if necessary.
BTW in case you didn’t notice, the site has tips for transitioning to raw. Pretty much common sense, but worth a read so you’ll be ready to go when you get your samples.

[Carrie K]

Thank you to everyone, again, for your advice! After thinking about how much pain she must be in and the size of the stones, I ended up calling another vet a couple hours’ drive from here for a second opinion. I explained the situation with the size of the stones and the vet’s recommendations (rx foods for life, dissolve with rx food, etc), and the new place was surprised at that. They thought she should come in for surgery instead, and they echoed my fears that trying to dissolve stones that big could cause a blockage if/when they tried to pass. I preferred the surgery route because it could take two months for them to dissolve, which is two more months of my girl being in pain. No thanks. My other thought was monetary – it would cost around $400 for the rx food for the time it would supposedly take to dissolve the stones, and there wasn’t a guarantee that they still wouldn’t have to do surgery. I’d rather just get it taken care of quickly and pay for the surgery.

In the meantime, at the recommendation of the new vet, we’re adding yogurt to one meal a day and feeding the Hills rx as a topper/supplement to the Orijen kibble for the other two meals a day until the surgery next week. And of course keeping her water topped up as we always do, and letting her out every half hour or so. Apparently they send the stones away to a lab for analysis to determine if she does in fact need to be on a special diet the rest of her life, or if the stones were just caused by an infection.

It was really interesting to hear another vet’s interpretation of the situation, and I felt like they were more open to a discussion about our options. And it was nice to hear that I wasn’t the only surprised by my current vet’s blanket “rest of her life” statements without knowing exactly what we were dealing with.

[jakes mom]

I don’t know that you HAVE to send the cooler back. They give you a return label and a spiel about helping them be environmentally responsible. You can also leave it for the UPS guy to take next time he delivers.
Have you tried giving her some ground meat from the grocery store? Just to see what she thinks about the idea, the texture? My guys like it plain, but I tried one of the supplement mixes and nobody would eat it. However, the mix smelled kind of like dry soup mix, so maybe it was too strong a flavor for the cats. Just remember if you decide to try some ground meat from the store, pork needs to be frozen for at least a couple of weeks to kill any parasites. Beef or poultry you can feed right away.

[Carrie K]

I wrote before about an issue with my shepherd mix having with frequent UTIs, and I just brought her back to the vet after seeing yet more blood in her urine. They did an x-ray and found that she has four large stones in her bladder, and the vet said she had to have a prescription food (Hills, of course, which I’ve always blasted against) to dissolve them. If it will help her get better and not be in pain anymore, I suppose I’d be willing to feed it for a VERY short time. However, the vet also mentioned that she’d “have to be on a prescription diet for the rest of her life,” which I can only take to mean that they’re hoping to continue selling this crap to us for the foreseeable future.

My question is this: is there a resource where I can get a second opinion on this sort of thing (all vets in my area carry Hills, and I have a suspicion they’d all give us the same answer)? I read the ingredients/feeding instructions, and from what I can see, this food is going to starve her of everything she needs to thrive. The first four ingredients are water, corn starch, egg product, and chicken fat, for goodness sake! It also has an AAFCO statement that it’s only intended for intermittent or supplemental feeding. So what now??

[MaggiesDad]

Give the guys at Allprovide (www.allprovide.com) a call (678-585-1606) – they had a dog with horrendous skin/yeast issues and switching to a raw diet saved her life. They’re always happy to talk about canine health issues and advise about diet and possible causes of problems. Their food has supplements in it such as coconut oil, salmon oil, turmeric etc all of which are good for coat and skin issues.

[DogFoodie]

Have you ever tried a limited ingredient food, Karen? I’m not a fan of Blue Buffalo at all and guaranteed, your girl is eating chicken if she’s eating Blue Buffalo products. But, keep in mind, food sensitivities like your girl has can be the result of exposure to problem ingredients far beyond chicken and grains. For example, one of mine can’t have fish (including fish oil), flax, chickpeas, lentil, tomato, garlic, barley or millet. Right now, he’s eating Nature’s Variety Instinct Limited Ingredient Duck. He’s doing well, but has recently developed what appear to be seasonal allergies – which yours could be as well. I’m using some supplements (Quercetin with Bromelain and Papain), but something as simple as a foot rinse each time he comes back in from outside helps eliminate the pollen that he tracks into the house.

How old is your pup and how long has she been having sensitivities? How long has she been eating the food she’s eating currently.

Even if the vet thinks it’s not the food, it’s worth a try and easy enough to change.