[Jenn H]

Jeffery T had some good advice.
My dog has also been experiencing symptoms of IBD and pancreatitis off & on for the past yr.
After much research and different gets & specialists I have it pretty under control (knock wood).
The most recent specialist was adamant about not giving her any raw meat or goat milk. She was put on a probiotic, pumpkin, bland diet, etc.
It’s been 2 months w/o relapse so I’m thinking of getting her off the prescription can food and trying something else. She gets very little kibble. Not even 1 cup/day.
She continues to get 30 mg Pepcid 2x/day and 2 Tbsp pumpkin for breakfast.

My problem with changing her diet is that low fat is recommended and she’s so active. Keeping weight on her can be tough.

I’m told to try a food with highest protein possible, low carbs and 10% fat on DRY MATTER BASIS (cans seems to be working better for her). Because she’s a GSD that’s kind of low as they really should have about 19% fat. So we’ll see.

The lower the meat protein, the more carbs there will be in the food. The source of the carbs can be difficult on the GI.

The kibble she gets now is Wysong And then
Her wet food is i/d. Usually turkey. Sometimes the stew (not her favorite) or chicken (that’s low fat).
I’m about to try Wysong Epigen cans.

Basically I have had success so far by cutting out raw animal products, probios, pumpkin and lower fat & carbs.

You may find adding enzymes to be helpful also. And maybe even try a novel protein. (If you choose fish be certain no one uses Ethoxyquin as a preservative.)

Remember to make sure the makers of your supplements aren’t sourcing anything from China.

Good luck to you.

[Bev A]

Hi, Bitty has been on the Canine Renal Protection for 3 months now and I also started her on the Acacia Fiber and Probiotics at the same time. Her Creatinin is now normal and the BUN has come down but still nowhere near normal but it did drop. So I continue giving the supplements. The latest blood work however has me concerned and any suggestions for meds, foods, supplements, whatever would be greatly appreciated. Her Albumin is low. 2.1 and her globulin is high at 5.7. She is 14 but her eating habits have improved greatly over the past 3 months. I switched her to Science diet KD and to Solid Gold Tripe. A third one is Merricks Grandmas Pot Pie. Bitty is a picky eater so I give her whichever one she will eat at the time. She does have bad teeth, so I am concerned for that but we have pulled the majority of them. She doesn’t do well with anesthesia so we have decided not to pursue the surgery as we don’t think she would survive. Shawna, your advice was right on. I didn’t tell the vet what I had done till the test results were back. She was iffy on it when I first mentioned it but said that it was because she had not used that before. But she could see that Bitty is more perky and aware of what is going on around her and suggested I continue doing what I am doing. . She has always been very anxious and has to have tummy meds all the time and I suppose that probably has a lot to do with the blood work. She has maintained her weight of 4 pounds and even gained 1/4 pound in the past 3 months. Thanks for any advice you can give at this time.

[Shawna]

Yeah, I think there definitely could be a connection between the yawning and anemia. There are different supplements that can be used depending on what the cause of the anemia is.

The cause is likely due to her kidneys BUT the antacid could be exacerbating it by impeding intrinsic factors action on B12. Standard Process has a human B12 supplement (that is suitable for dogs) that has porcine intrinsic factor right in the product. I would personally start my own on this if experiencing the same things. I would give it away from meals and the antacid being used. There is another form of B12 that I have had excellent results with but it is given intranasally and likely won’t be well tolerated. I’d try the Standard Process or a similar product.

Inappropriate bacteria in the gut can utilize iron being consumed so if that was a potential factor, being on the probiotics will address that with continued use.

Chlorophyll is considered a “blood builder”. It is chemically just like blood except magnesium replaces iron. Many holistic practitioners use it in cases of “blood loss”. Audrey became anemic and HIGH doses of Standard Process Chlorophyll Complex Perles given over a weeks period did the trick for her. The maintenance dose for humans is two perles per day. From memory I was giving Audrey six to eight per day. The first few times I gave it I had to coax her to take it but after that she was almost frantic to get them when I even grabbed the bottle. After she was back on track I started her on a maintenance dose (for financial reasons) of a high quality Chlorella supplement. I tried three different brands before I found one that really worked well for her.

I found this, in my opinion, really cool article on supplements for renal disease that may be helpful. I haven’t had a chance to read the whole thing but here’s the section on “Kidney-associated anemia”.
“Renal Disease in Small Animals: A Review of Conditions and Potential Nutrient and Botanical Interventions
Susan Marie Pollen, DVM, CVA

Kidney-associated anemia is characteristically normocytic, normochromic, and nonregenerative.18 Anemia may cause tachycardia, lassitude, and cold and exercise intolerance.17 Erythropoietin must be given. In addition, nutrients that benefit RBC production, including water-soluble vitamins B12 and folic acid, are especially important when vitamins are lost in isosthenuric urine. Also useful are eggs, raw beef liver, liquid chlorophyll, kelp,63 and supplements containing vitamin C for optimal iron absorption, vitamin E for antioxidant protection of RBCs, vitamin A, and iron and copper for hemoglobin synthesis. Supplementing branched-chain amino acids (valine, leucine, and isoleucine) and glutamine is also useful if nephrogenic anemia is accompanied by amino acid deficiency. 61” http://www.anaturalhealingcenter.com/documents/Thorne/articles/RenalDiseaseSmallAnimal.pdf

Standard Process Chlorophyll Complex is fat soluble but worked like a charm. Not sure why the recommendation for “water soluble” but most chlorella supplements contain water soluble chlorophyll.

Obviously the addition of animal proteins (eggs and liver) would need to be evaluated for the amount of protein and phosphorus they add. The Standard Process Renal Support supplement has many of these suggested nutrients without adding a significant amount of phosphorus.

I truly hope all of your hard work and dedication shows wonderful results with the next lab work!!!

• This reply was modified 10 years, 1 month ago by Shawna.
• This reply was modified 10 years, 1 month ago by Shawna.

[gina w]

Hi Shauna
We started Faith on Hill’s KD stew earlier this week, it seems that the smell is decreasing significantly. She had one bad day with spitting up, not sure if from the pre and probiotics. She has really gotten fussy with her eating. You have to sit with her and get her interested by hand feeding then she will go on and start eating on her own. Gave her Zofran in case it was nausea causing the spitting up and she started eating more and no spitting up. She blew her last IV so we are giving her fluid boluses once daily.
I noticed that Faith yawns a lot. Not sure if it is because of the anemia but it is really noticeable. Any ideas?
Just want to thank you for all your suggestions. I will let you know her what her labs are after 2 weeks of the supplements.
gina

[Joyce B]

So happy that the Shih Tzu is better! I had similar problems with my Pom. While she never vomited immediately after eating, she would have episodes of not eating (even her favorite foods), wanting only grass, and vomiting bile overnight. I tried many top foods including grain-free to no avail. One of our foods was Wellness which was great for my other dogs but not this one and the ingredient list was a mile long so very difficult to pinpoint any triggers. I tried Pepcid which seemed to help a little but not entirely. I tried many supplements which didn’t help. Neither did pumpkin, if I could get her to eat at all. At one point when she didn’t eat for a second day I took her to the vet. Blood work was normal and I was sent home with various anti-nauseas. She was better after a couple of days on meds but about a month later the symptoms returned. We didn’t go to the vet this time and she was better in a couple of days without meds. I was told by the folks at Ask Ariel to eliminate poultry but I knew chicken was OK because we would have several good weeks on foods with chicken. But turkey was in alot of the foods I tried. And when no turkey there was egg. Since eliminating these two things – turkey and egg – we have been symptom-free for almost a year!

[Linda H]

I just got a 6 month puppy large breed and wondered if nutrisource purevita venison and red lentils is a top quality brand and if my puppy needs additional supplement or a different brand.

[anonymously]

Check out The SkeptVet’s blog on Herbs and Supplements, I tried to provide the link but was unable to do so. I find the site helpful and informative when trying to make decisions about pet healthcare.

[anonymously]

Suzanne, that Frontline Special scared me too. I only take a few things (re: supplements)…..but will do some re-evaluating. Sometimes, “Less is more”.

[Suzanne W]

Strange… I bought some aloe Vera juice the other day for my gsd for skin issues which I’m trying to decide how to get her to take it because my dogs do not take a syringe against their wills. My Maltese, Sophie bites, and my gsd , well when she refuses, you can hang it up. I wil try to figure something out. So far so good on Sophie’s garlic episode, need to wait a couple more days. Dealing with skin issues seems like nonstop with my shepherd, now. she’s on so many supplements, but not the aloe Vera juice… Yet. Thanks so much Anna c! And to pitlove, I kid you not… After our mention of pits and German shepherds… My husband was walking Ida today and some guy opened his garage and his pit charged Ida, but apparently didn’t want to fight thank God, but Ida was so freaked out she was yelping so loudly and there was a huge ruckus people coming out of their houses and my husband trying to separate these two! Pit owner was right behind his dog, poor guy fell he was running so fast., Ida made it out with one small wound which will be healed in a few days with silversol silver, and the pit was unharmed, so I would say that a pit and German shepherd met on bad terms today and one scrape was it! They didn’t want to fight, Ida just got scared and it freaked them both out! Ironic since we just spoke of this kind of thing! Ok to deal with those skin issues, but I’m on the wrong forum… Figures!

[InkedMarie]

Hi Rani,
I have not fed any senior type of food for my senior dogs. I do feed grainfree (grains can be inflammatory & I also don’t believe dogs need grains) with highr protein and supplement for joint and any other issues. I currently use green lipped mussel but in the past have had good results with Dog Gone Pain, In Clover Connectin and Glycoflex.

[Pittiemama]

I’ve been researching and food trialing my dog. It appears that he can eat turkey (well so far anyway). I’ve had him for 2 years and it seemed that all he could eat was fish as a protein. So here we are…

I feed Brave from HK right now. I like their company and he loves the food but it’s high in phosphorous and he has kidney disease at the young age of 5 1/2. We’ve been looking at changing. So with the new food trial comes new info. I may be changing to the Keen or use the Preference by HK as a base (or another base like Dr. Harvey’s) but I may also just cook for him. Here’s the dilemma, the balance. He has food intolerances and kidney disease. His creatinine was 2.2 at last look and his USG was anywhere between 1.014-1.019.

I’ve looked around but there is tons of info. Do any of you have either good recipes, websites or blogs you frequent for info that’s reputable? I’m needing nutritional levels, supplements, ideas for base mixes, fat content….etc.etc.etc. You know.

Also if a dog is intolerant of eggs, can they eat crushed egg shell? Kind of randome question but I’ve been wondering.

Thanks!

[InkedMarie]

September,
Senior dogs need a good higher protein food. Most senior foods are way too low in protein, the exception being Orijen senior.
I have had many senior dogs, three of which came to me already old. One was obese on arrival so she got a lower fat food but the other two just got good food. I supplement with green lipped mussel for joints and any other issues.

[C4D]

Hi September D,

I’ve owned a lot of dogs over the years. I’ve never fed a senior dog food to them. Senior dog food is really just a marketing ploy. My large breed dogs live well over their expiration date. The most important thing is to watch that they don’t gain too much weight, get exercise on a daily basis, and address any health issues they might have as they age or due to injuries they have sustained. I also get yearly checkups and do blood panels on a regular basis. That let’s you know if there are any issues that might need addressing. My vet once said to walk my dogs for as long as they could walk. I’ve always done that. I’m not saying this is a miracle cure, but dogs need exercise and they need a job. That’s their job and they love it. I have a senior right now, 11 yo Lab along with other older adult dogs, but if you didn’t know her age, you wouldn’t think she was that old. She has bad knees too, but she walks briskly almost 2 miles daily and runs the yard after everything she sees. She does get supplements (fish oil, joint care) and I am very careful about her diet to keep her lean. I also feed her a combination of kibble, canned and fresh/raw food daily. So, I’ll get off my soap box now. Best of luck with your pup!

[Shawna]

Yes absolutely Gina, dogs with acute KD can recover but not in every case. While in the acute phase, I misread and thought she was eventually diagnosed with chronic KD, it can be beneficial to feed lower protein. Of course follow your vet’s advice or your gut instincts if you feel it is prudent. Science Diet has two new canned products that are, from what I can tell, far superior to many other products. They are their stews. They can be fed on their own or mixed in with the green tripe if she won’t eat them alone. I definitely would continue the Standard Process Renal Support and other supplements you’ve started.

My friend’s Maltese, Buster, developed acute kidney disease from chicken jerky treats. He survived but did develop CKD. That said, he has lived quite healthfully with the disease for many years now and is still doing well. If you are on Facebook I can link you up to her if interested.

[gina w]

Thank you for all the advice, She is smelling better today, We are just 2 days in with the pre and probiotics and the renal support. Does it matter when you give the supplements with food, prior to food, after ? I have been trying to give her 3 small meals but she is getting fussier by the day. Prior to all this happening she ate everything and anything hence probably why she got the pancreatitis. Big learning experience for us and my 4 other dogs aren’t allowed anything but their dog food now.
A few years back my brother was septic and experienced acute tubular necrosis, he was in kidney failure for about 2-3 months and his kidney function returned. Have you ever heard of a dogs kidney function returning after an acute injury? That is my hope.
Thank again Shawna for all your suggestions I will keep you posted.
gina

[anonymously]

http://skeptvet.com/Blog/?s=kidney+damage

Read through the comments, other pet owners going through similar problems. Perhaps you will find something useful.

PS: Regarding my dog with kidney damage, the main symptom of kidney disease is nausea, so she was on a prescription diet/bland.
NO SUPPLEMENTS. and that worked, for as long as it did….
I would only do what a veterinarian that has examined the dog recommends, but that is something I have learned, over the years.

[Shawna]

Oops, should have added this — any good quality enzyme supplement will have enzymes that digest protein – proteases as well as those that digest fats and carbs. Some animals can be intolerant to some of the foods the enzymes are produced from — my friend’s Frenchie is yeast intolerant so certain enzyme supplements produced from yeasts don’t work for him. You may have to do a little trial and error to see what works best but enzyme supplements I personally like include Enzymatica Digest Gold (human product) or the Mercola branded product simply called Healthy Pets Digestive Enzymes. Both of these have a wide variety of enzymes.

[gina w]

Hi Shawna,
Thanks for getting back to me. What is a proteolytic enzyme, is that part of the supplements I already purchased? We had a set back yesterday my husband fed her only beef and nothing else so the uremic smell is back. This morning after some boluses and IV fluids through the night she is smelling much better.

I think this is going to be a long haul, but I am hoping the kidneys are gonna come back, I have seen it happen it humans.
Gina

[Lauren D]

My American Bulldog, approx 3 years old, has been dealing with horrible allergies for most of his life. He was allergy tested in April of 2015 and the food issues for him are: Egg, soybean, duck, rabbit, yeast (scored lowest possible), oat, and potato.

I switched his food over to Zignature Turkey He seemed to do well with it for the first couple of months, but I’m not convinced it is having a positive effect anymore. I did have him start allergy injections in October 2015 (focusing on some food and some environmental like human dander).

He has a pattern of doing ok for a week or so and then once I think he’s doing well he turns all red and inflamed, sometimes gets hives, his legs and stomach are raw and he sometimes scratches so hard he bleeds and scabs over, eyes are swollen and red, his hair thins out a lot, and he smells horrid. I bathe him in a medicated shampoo on a regular basis.

With his food restrictions, does anyone have recommendations on dry food brands to look in to? I can’t afford anything over $70 per 30lb bag. I have two other dogs and they switch to whatever food he is on as I don’t want any chance for cross contamination. I’ve also looked in to the addition of supplements such as coconut oil, fish oil, and digestive enzymes. Thoughts on any brands or whether or not that would be worthwhile to do very much appreciated.

• This topic was modified 10 years, 2 months ago by Lauren D. Reason: wrong html code

[Suzanne W]

El Doctor, I hope I am replying to you, actually I don’t know what I am doing so you may never get this, I am posting and hoping the people who have been so helpful and caring i.e. Aimee, anonymously, and you. Anyway, the symptoms you gave me and the site is actually more extensive than the vet told me, so thank you. I thought they told me it may cause problems weeks after!? Anyway, I will breathe easier if she does, on Tuesday, which would be four and a half days. It’s only been 24 hours… Anonymously really opened my eyes up for my own body in regards to supplements. You should check out that frontline video as it is shocking! I’ll post on here tues if all goes well, I can’t think of the other. Thank you and God bless you!

[Suzanne W]

ANONYMOUSLY, you are right. A call to the poison or emergency center is exactly what I should have done. I wasn’t thinking clearly, obviously. I still must watch Sophie carefully for any adverse reactions for a couple weeks. Regarding that pbs special frontline you recommended, Lord help us all! I had heard things in the past, but had no idea it was so prevalent! I have assumed( yes, I know what they say about ass-u-me-ing, and this time it fits me for sure) that if it was manufactured here in the good ole USA, then it would be safe. Not so! That freaked me out. Who knows what the heck we are taking, cuz we certainly can’t trust our supplements anymore. I will finish watching it and make educated decisions regarding supplements in the future. Only 21percent of the supplements at Walmart, Walgreens, gnc and target I think if I remember are the real uncontaminated stuff? What in the world have we been putting in our bodies? And my precious soph…hmmmmm, that’s ridiculous. The government jumps in so many things, this is something the Foa should be regulating. THANKYOU for opening my eyes and ears! Keep spreading the word, cuz you may just save lives… God bless you!

[anonymously]

I think the induced vomiting right away may have made a difference, time will tell. I am glad you are listening to a veterinarian. Garlic in any form is toxic to dogs.
A call to a pet poison control hotline would have been warranted (in case anyone else goes through this).
PS: I wouldn’t assume anything about supplements. See the recent Frontline Special (PBS)
Here it is: http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/film/supplements-and-safety/

[Suzanne W]

I like your recipe, although I give my dogs blue wilderness grain free dry, I make a topper in the crockpot with meat(various kinds) canine appropriate vegetables, with appropriate and minimal herbs. I also supplement as treat fruit bits when we are snacking. I will have to look up dulse. Never heard of it,but our recipes are sort of similar though my girls eat raw sardines. NEVER raw salmon, though! I like to give them sweet potato in tiny bites as well, and I put a very small amount of turnip in the crock(like half a turnip for three quarts in the crock). My meat is whatever I have or find on sale. Chicken, beef, fish, but if it’s pork on occasion, I only use tenderloin as there is very very little fat. You mentioned cinnamon. I will have to add that as well. We make cookies for us which we share with the dogs as well. Although they are primarily grain free, their cookies have oatmeal in them, but are flourless and we all like them and I add extra cinnamon in them. My dogs love mandarins and apple and strawberries for vitamin c and antioxidants. I also add a small handful f spinach if I have it in there for iron and iron absorption. Do you allow any type sort of bone? Real or fake?

[anonymously]

I have heard good things about this service, that it was well worth the fee.
“The ASPCA Animal Poison Control Center (APCC) is your best resource for any animal poison-related emergency, 24 hours a day, 365 days a year. If you think your pet may have ingested a potentially poisonous substance, call (888) 426-4435. A $65 consultation fee may be applied to your credit card”. https://www.aspca.org/pet-care/animal-poison-control

I would just give clear fluids or broth for now, hopefully flush it out. Watch for vomiting and diarrhea. A vet may recommend some blood tests……

My first choice would be to take the dog to the emergency vet right away, a lot of these supplements and medications can have delayed reactions as far as causing damage and abnormal blood values. You may not see it right away. There may be something they can do to flush it out of her system faster. I would at least call the emergency vet and see what they recommend.

• This reply was modified 10 years, 2 months ago by anonymously.

[Suzanne W]

I took my German shepherd Ida, outside, was gone about five minutes. I was shocked to find my Maltese, Sophie, on the couch with my vitamin supplements and prescription pills! How in the world did she get them off the coffee table and then take them to the couch. She “moved “definitely five and possibly six pills. Ok, there are definitely two possibly three missing. I believe she ate two garlic gelcaps(2000mg garlic bulb), and possibly a caprylic acid gel cap. I was in shock… And anger! It took me about twenty to twenty five minutes to finally give her hydrogen peroxide. I don’t know if it went down so I tried again. After about a total of half hour maximum forty five minutes, she vomited twice, liquid(she had not eaten yesterday before this) bile colored without any gel substance so I saw nothing. I put a garlc gel cap in my mouth and moved it around n my mouth and it was competent dissolved in less than four minutes and did not taste bad. I decided that she may or may not have vomited it up as the substance is clear, odorless to humans that is, and almost tasteless. Hemolytic anemia is a horrible thing and I will watch soph for the next week or two. I was unable to obtain activated charcoal in time and then we couldn’t get it down her. I am disabled, and my husband has been out of work for six months, but found at least part time work the day before so wasn’t home. Before you judge us for not taking her in, we spent three grand in the summer on the dogs vet bills and we’ve spent hundreds more a couple months ago on skin problems with Ida. I’ve read what to watch for, but does anybody know anything I can do to support her or minimize reprecussions of this? I thought more protein, folic acid and supplements, so I gave her a half sardine this am. She’s already on blue buffalo grain free dog food, homemade topper made with different good quality meat and vegetables and fruits appropriate for dogs, and dermis supplement in her food. She gets tiny amounts of homemade treats we make with peanut butter, oatmeal, banana, flourless cookies we and the dogs like! Any advise? Ok I believe treat the patient not the diagnosis. She is acting fine thus far as it has only been 16 hours. Thanks for any help!

[JeffreyT]

Susan, so good to hear how well Patches is doing! I may do a phone consult for nutritional advice. The supplements look excellent too.

[Jenn H]

Wendyz I had replied this morning, but am just noticing that I must not have hit “submit”. Therefore I apologize for the delay.

I will say that after about 20 GSDs in 35+ yrs only 1 of them had pano. That was when I was a teenager. Therefore I had no control on what the dogs were fed. I just fed them according to parents’ instruction. At that time Pedigree, Purina, Blue Seal, etc were considered great food. Canned was to be used very rarely and only to give pills or extra during very cold times.
That dog grew very big very quickly. At 2 he was heading toward 100#s. Since he died suddenly at 2.5 from torsion we’ll never know what he would’ve topped out at.

With the exception of a couple of dogs I have adopted as adults, none of the 20ish dogs I’ve had have gotten hip/elbow dysplasia, OCD, arthritis, etc. With the proper diet, exercise & supplements the arthritic dogs became noticeably better. (Supplements are a whole other conversation.)

I worry about my pup because I have no idea what his father is like. His mother was a “midnight rescue”. She is 90+ lbs. His confirmation isn’t ideal. Angulated hips, roach back. Since switching him tho he has developed more muscle tone which I think has gotten him to stop walking on his hocks and has a better coat. He is also more satisfied after meals despite being fed much less amt.

It appears that quality of the proteins is more important than the quantity. Stay away from plant based. Go for meats/fish/eggs as a source. Higher biological value. Protein is important to build muscle.

You also want to control the rate of growth. GSDs can grow until they’re 3 y/o. My boy has steadily gained 2 #s/wk his whole life. Once in a while he doesn’t gain anything, but will gain 3#s the next wk.

It’s perfectly fine to give joint supplements at 6 months. Right now he gets 1.5 tabs Cosequin DS (the kind WITHOUT vitamins & minerals).

Make sure that if fish is in the food it is NOT preserved by the supplier or manufacturer with Ethoxyquin. Solid Gold & their suppliers do not use that.

If you want to have more control over proteins The Honest Kitchen may be a good choice. Even if you only feed 1 meal/day or a few meala/wk. When I contacted them regarding the puppy they suggested this:
4-6 mon Thrive
After 6 months transition/rotate with Embark, Love, Revel, Brave (that’s a LID of fish).
They make human grade dehydrated base mixes. You add the protein yourself. They include the suggested amts, but really it’s up to you.

I like to keep my puppies on the leaner side while they grow. A roly poly puppy is cute, but not ideal. I find 22-25% protein to be a good amt. But I care more about what type and the calcium.

Other LBP foods on my short list are:
*Orijen LBP/Acana
*Fromm LBP Gold although I’m hesitant to try it since a lot of people are complaining their dogs are getting sick from their gold line.
*Solid Gold Hundchen Flocken Lamb & Rice. I used it when I couldn’t find Wolf Cub

Just an aside…I appreciate that you asked for my advice and am very happy to help. I am not a vet or a nutritionist. All I have is experience. Dogfoodie, Pitlove, Houndmom (I’m pretty sure that’s her name) are about the only 3 people who seem to be as conscientious as I and have offered some valuable & helpful advice. They are very good sources to reach out to also. I know there are some significant differences between GSDs and other large breeds, but there’s more similarities when it come to prevention of musculoskeleton problems.

Another aside is that I think I may switch my Lab mix to Solid Gold Barking at the Moon. I can let you know how that goes.

Good luck with the pup. I’m sure he’ll be just fine. I doubt that bout of pano will be a problem. You understand that calcium should not exceed 1.5% and the calcium/ phosphorus ratio should be around 1:1-2:1.

If I think of anything I may have forgotten I’ll let you know.

[Susan]

Hi Greg, my boy was diagnosed with IBD thru biopsies 2013, I contacted a Naturopath thru email first to see if she knew anything about IBD & she did, so I booked a consultation over phone she rings you or does Skype for overseas….
Here’s her link her “Maintenance Diet” http://www.naturalanimalsolutions.com.au/natural-diet.html
I told her everything about Patches health, she said it sounds like Patches Pancreas isn’t doing its job & working properly & we need to fix Patches gut……
Jacqueline put Patch on the home made raw “Maintenance Diet” she would not let me buy any of those premade raw diets she said, she has seen them being made & they are not good for dogs especially if they have any health problems especially IBD…..
I had to pick 2 proteins, I picked Kangaroo mince & Chicken breast, 2-4 veggies, I picked, broccoli, celery, carrot & 1-2 fruits I pick apple, all veggies & fruit must be washed & peeled then cut & put thru a blender, for breakfast I feed 1 cup protein kangaroo & add 1-2 spoons of the blended veggie/fruit mix also had to add Digestive Enzymes 1/2 capsule & live probiotic 1/2 capsule per meal…..she told me freeze the veggie/fruit mix in 2 spoon sections & freeze the meats separate in 1 cup sections, it was so easy to do, then when Patch was doing firm stools & was OK which was the next day, I was surprised he did the firmest poo I’ve ever seen, Jacqueline promised me he would, she said the Digestive enzymes & probiotic will firm stools & they did, then I could start to add the DigestaVite Plus Powder 1/4 teaspoon then increase after 1 week.
You need to add supplements & ingredients slowely 1 at a time over 5 days cause if something goes wrong you will not know what is causing the problem……. Less is best in the beginning 🙂 also she told me No bone, some IBD dogs don’t do well eating bone……
I now cook this diet minus any meaty bones & add potato, zucchini….

Sounds like your dog Pancreas isn’t working properly either, not digesting her food properly, I would start with cooking first & see how she does, its fresh & you know what you have cooked, I freeze 2 weeks worth of meals….
have you heard of “Balance It” http://secure.balanceit.com/….Balance It gives you recipes to suit your dogs health problems takes about 20 sec then gives you all recipes, shows you how many calories, how much fat, protein fiber is in that meal & you can contact a their Vet Nutritionist….
Have you tried a digestive enzyme?? instead of increasing the steroid…..also have you tried Metronidazole (flagyl) for 2 weeks, the Metronidazole often fixes things up & kills the bad bacteria these dogs have problems with, Patch has a few scripts of the Metronidazole in the cupboard & I put him on it for 2 weeks as soon as I start to see his poos going yellow & sloppy & smelling bad….Good Luck

[Shawna]

I’ve read research discussing illnesses associated with palatants (specifically MSG and free glutamic acid) but I’ve never heard of them associated with copraphagia. Additionally, several of the supplements given for copraphagia have MSG or a form of free glutamic acid in them. Although they don’t work for all dogs, they do seem to work for some. I’m not sure what other palatants are used in pet foods?

Although I never had copraphagia, 🙂 I did have pica for about 15 or so years. I didn’t have digestive issues of any kind but turns out I had villous atrophy from a caseine sensitivity (I react to both cow and goat dairy products, raw or pasteurized, organic makes no difference either). My blood work was normal however my iron was on the very low side of normal. I also developed slight hypothyroid symptoms but test showed no issues. Anyhoo, I was finally diagnosed at age 39 by a wonderful M.D. who is also a Certified Clinical Nutritionist. She put me on an elimination diet. The only ingredients that jump out at me in Barking at the Moon would be the lectin proteins in the pea protein and the potato. I’ve not seen either of those lectin foods associated with villous atrophy but so much about lectins is still not yet known…?? Treats might be a potential source?

I currently feed commercial raw but used to feed home prepared (my time is limited now). Three of my dogs used to make a game out of eating bunny poo. That completely stopped when I started giving digestive enzymes. I never felt they were necessary in raw fed dogs but those three showed me differently. An adult foster dog came in eating poo. She was also a little over 20 pounds overweight. We got the weight off but no matter what we’ve tried she is a poop eater. She’s been an ideal weight (12 pounds) for several years now (we adopted her) but she still to this day has a snack given the opportunity. She won’t eat all poo though, so I’m assuming my senior dogs are not thoroughly digesting the proteins despite the added enzymes.

I don’t know if any of this is relevant to your pup but thought I’d put it out there.

[anonymously]

Has the vet ruled out medical issues? Good article here : http://www.aspca.org/pet-care/virtual-pet-behaviorist/dog-behavior/coprophagia-eating-feces (excerpt below)
Medical Problems to Rule Out
Starvation, Malnutrition or Malabsorption Disorders
If your dog isn’t getting sufficient food or isn’t able to digest the nutrition in his food, he may resort to coprophagia as a way to supplement his diet. Before doing anything else, it’s important to have your dog thoroughly examined by a veterinarian to rule out medical problems that could cause coprophagia.
.

[Carol B]

Just a theory. Do you happen to know of any cases where the dog was eating homemade food without any supplements containing flavorings and still coprophagic? Those palatants are powerful things.

[JeffreyT]

Here is Dr. Becker’s turkey and pumpkin recipe for stomach issues.
http://healthypets.mercola.com/sites/healthypets/archive/2014/09/01/pumpkin-dietary-fiber.aspx

You may consider probiotics and enzymes to help with stomach problems, maximum absorption of nutrients and immune function. They can be used every day. I always keep Perfect Form by Honest Kitchen on hand which is a miracle supplement.

I agree with anonymous that you should get the puppy to the vet, and bring a stool sample. If antibiotics are recommend, make sure to use probiotics after finishing prescription so good bacteria are replenished.

After home cooking, I’ve found the freeze dried and dehydrated foods to be the best for stomach and health, and the only kibble type food my pups have no issues with is air dried like Real Meat Pet Food, Only Natural Air Dried Max or Ziwi Peak.

[Leslie C]

I know a little bit about seizures as I have had two dogs, a Bernese Mountain Dog and a Golden Retriever that did not live together and both had seizures. The Golden we bought as a puppy after the first Berner female died. I did a lot of research on the breeds and the issue of seizures. Bernese Mountain Dogs are prone to seizures as they age, Goldens are not. And no one knows what that means, prone to, or why. We believe that initially, the Berner had a brain tumor or cancer that travelled to her brain. I was using a regular vet who just put her on anti seizure meds that really didn’t help. No seizures, no personality, she only lived a month after we put her on the meds. As a puppy she never had seizure, therefor, we knew that she was not epileptic. Epilepsy is diagnosed before or around two years of age. The Golden was having seizures that were probably unrelated to his diagnosis, osteo-carcenoma (bone cancer) which he got at nine. He actually lived another year after he was diagnosed- usually the diagnoses is six months. Since he lived way beyond his prescribed “end”, probably because I was cooking human grade food, and because of the attention he got from his family, at his last visit to the vet they believed that perhaps tumors form elsewhere in his body may have metastasized to his brain. He got real bad real fast only in his last ten days. So I think the food was a big part of lengthening his life, making him happy and giving him the best quality nutrition, and sometimes there is just nothing else you can do. Heavy meds do not make a happy dog. He died Spring of 2015. My current Bernese Mountain Dog (unrelated, but from the same breeder as the other dog) has had four unpredictable seizures in the last year and a half. I thought at first that it might have been from the dry food because of the Golden’s seizures. I got rid of the enormous cookies (Pro-Pet) we got from Agway with our grain and hay deliveries. The dogs liked coming to the barn and chowing down on big bones. Its very odd though, his blood work was good, especially for a 9 year old Berner. My vet is a holistic vet, who gives our dogs (we have a Wheaten too) supplements to help them maintain an effective system. (Like vitamins). They are also regular vets that give shots and operate, and they absolutely believe that foods can be toxic to pets. Especially poor brands of pet food. (Look at what the first ingredient is on the label). HOWEVER, more toxic are the many unnecessary shots that they give. Really. The puppy shots and rabies (every several years depending on the dogs age) are necessary, but there are many other shots that you can ask your vet to omit. In addition, you are worried about cleaning products? If you’re okay, your dog should be okay, but you never know. I think that lawn products, stuff on the sidewalk, stuff that your dog can lick off his paws and get sick from are real problems. I am trying to find out if any of the dry foods I feed them have caused seizures or something else. The now get Merrick and Blue, and Blue Dog Bakery biscuits. Has anyone said anything about Milk Bone? (I think the UPS delivery guys give them Milk Bone when the drop boxes off). But really, I find it easy to cook for them, making chicken or fish for the family, I just make extra. We also have chickens so they get a lot of eggs, those small carrots, peas, cooked yams, apples, and even plain yogurt. If you know where it came from and if your eating it yourself its safe. Allergies are another story. I hope this helped a little bit… And please, if anyone discovered more about this bizarre and mysterious seizure conundrum, or about the dog foods and treats I listed above, please post!!

[Becky A]

Hey crazy4cats,

Thanks! I put him on a probiotic supplement too. Hope that can help it along as well. I’ll def keep you in the loop to see how he’s doing! thank you for your help! 😀

[Leslie R]

I’m new to the forum here and I saw that on Feb 20 2013 Hound Dog Mom posted an assessment of Big Country Raw which listed the vitamins and supplements it would need to be a complete feed. I followed the original question and found Dawson didn’t do well on it. I have friend’s who swear by it and they have aussies with magnificent coats and apparent excellent health. I have a rescue silky terror that has gone from a greasy coat to a better coat although a bit dry through kibble changes. I am seriously considering raw and as I live down the street from BCR I wonder if you possibly have the time to reassess this product. I would also love your opinion on mixing proteins also as there is so much debate I find on this topic. Thanks in advance!

http://www.bigcountryraw.ca/menu.php

[Leslie R]

I know I’m a year late but I have the same questions-please refer to the Feb 20 post in this link it refers to Big Country itself. I live right by them and want to switch but am concerned about having to supplement

/forums/topic/pre-mix-or-home-made-raw/

[Nora L]

Hi Ken,
Sorry to hear about your dog’s problems. I do think it is related to the food. The legs and thighs you’re getting are likely very high in fat. It is fat in the raw diet that causes so many problems for raw fed dogs. This also causes bile vomiting because bile is overproduced in dogs who over-consume fat. So that’s a clue that you’ve been feeding too much fat. You did the correct thing to fast your dog during the bout of diarrhea but there is no reason to feed any inappropriate foods like rice, cooked chicken or commercial dog food. A second day of fasting would allow the digestive tract to heal, and after that you need to find lower fat cuts of meat to feed, such as game hens with all visible fat removed, quail, buffalo, beef, pork and turkey. If your dog has problems eating meat that does not have bone (this causes loose stools in some dogs), supplement each of his meals with a cut that has bone, such as part of a game hen. A game hen leg (for example) along with 4-6 ounces of lean pork or beef would be a great meal for your dog. The advice you got third hand is correct, this condition does usually clear itself up when the proper changes are made to the diet.

[Pittiemama]

I posted this is the Health issues and Nutrition portion. Maybe this would have been a better place. I don’t know so…

I have a 5 year old rescue Am. Staff. who sadly has early kidney failure. I’m seeing a holistic vet in a couple of weeks for guidance on so many things with him. He also has a lot of food intolerances. I was wondering what you all know about home cooking. I hear a lot about raw but I’m wondering about cooking. Right now I feed Honest Kitchen Brave. It’s great and he loves it but if his phosphorous starts to rise I’ll need to rethink his diet a little or I may start earlier just to be sure he’s getting everything right. I’m definitely in the planning stage right now. Also I add in a little kibble to decrease the cost some, Honest Kitchen is spendy and would be about $250-300/month on it’s own (my guy is 74#) and to decrease the phosphorous I found a kibble that’s balanced but has a lower phosphorous due to their formulation. I’m not at all restricting as he’s not at that point yet but I figured if I find something that’s a little lower and still balanced, that’s probably best right now. Because of his allergies I feed him fish diets, which is the only protein I’ve found so far that works well and the one that doesn’t give him pink skin and ear infections, so unless I figure out another protein that he can tolerate, fish it is. Also he’s allergic to some grains (I think corn…ick, wheat…no thanks and not sure about rice) and I don’t want to feed him grain, just my preference. I’m mostly wanting meat, veggies, fruit and supplements.
Here’s my question:
Have any of you cooked meals with fish? Most of the diets I see are chicken, turkey, beef etc. What fish did you use? I mostly see pollock, mackerel, sardines etc. What have you used? I’m thinking of using a base like Honest Kitchen Preference or Dr. Harvey’s Veg-to-Bowl and adding cooked fish. Again, I’m not married to that idea but because balance is so difficult and I want to be sure he is getting the right nutrition. Balance is key! It is with everything but he’s a complicated dude, hence the trip to the holistic vet. I’m sure she can help but so many of you have knowledge and experience that I figured it would help me narrow down some ideas and research points.
Thanks a bunch!

[Pittiemama]

I have a 5 year old rescue Am. Staff. who sadly has early kidney failure. I’m seeing a holistic vet in a couple of weeks for guidance on so many things with him. He also has a lot of food intolerances. I was wondering what you all know about home cooking. I hear a lot about raw but I’m wondering about cooking. Right now I feed Honest Kitchen Brave. It’s great and he loves it but if his phosphorous starts to rise I’ll need to rethink his diet a little or I may start earlier just to be sure he’s getting everything right. I’m definitely in the planning stage right now. Also I add in a little kibble to decrease the cost some, Honest Kitchen is spendy and would be about $250-300/month on it’s own (my guy is 74#) and to decrease the phosphorous I found a kibble that’s balanced but has a lower phosphorous due to their formulation. I’m not at all restricting as he’s not at that point yet but I figured if I find something that’s a little lower and still balanced, that’s probably best right now. Because of his allergies I feed him fish diets, which is the only protein I’ve found so far that works well and the one that doesn’t give him pink skin and ear infections, so unless I figure out another protein that he can tolerate, fish it is. Also he’s allergic to some grains (I think corn…ick, wheat…no thanks and not sure about rice) and I don’t want to feed him grain, just my preference. I’m mostly wanting meat, veggies, fruit and supplements.

Here’s my question:
Have any of you cooked meals with fish? Most of the diets I see are chicken, turkey, beef etc. What fish did you use? I mostly see pollock, mackerel, sardines etc. What have you used? I’m thinking of using a base like Honest Kitchen Preference or Dr. Harvey’s Veg-to-Bowl and adding cooked fish. Again, I’m not married to that idea but because balance is so difficult and I want to be sure he is getting the right nutrition. Balance is key! It is with everything but he’s a complicated dude, hence the trip to the holistic vet. I’m sure she can help but so many of you have knowledge and experience that I figured it would help me narrow down some ideas and research points.

Thanks a bunch!

[Frank K]

The Wellness Core Puppy formula is well-rated, as is the Adult version. I particularly appreciate the consistency of their product, the ease of use, and the overall health of my pups. To the best of my knowledge, there have never been any issues with the company or the food either. I spend $114 buying 2 26 pounds every 6 weeks for my 2 American Pit Bull pups who are now 11 months old and weigh 118 and 85 pounds (1 male, 1 female). When I initially received my dogs, they did experience 3-4 days of soft stool when starting the Wellness Core Puppy, but I am not entirely certain whether it was related to the food or the stress associated with moving. I do not routinely supplement with anything else, although they do occasionally receive some tasty meat and vegetable leftovers! While I am certain there are many excellent brands available, consistency IS a huge consideration. You must also objectively assess just how much time and effort you can regularly offer in purchasing and preparing the food. For dogs with digestive sensitivity, even minute alterations in diet can provoke distressful symptoms, which makes consistency ever MORE vital. For this reason, I would probably NOT use raw foods with your dog. Commercially available meat can vary enormously in quality for a multitude of reasons–FDA inspected and all. If you raise your own meat and absolutely know that it has been correctly handled start to finish, it may be a different story! We actually DO raise and butcher our own meats but I still stick with the dry food because I know that I cannot always spend the time prepping for the dogs–no matter now good my intentions may be! Be wary, also, of advice you receive on the internet from self-professed experts. (Mine included!) In the majority of cases, the individuals giving it are not sufficiently educated on the most current scientific research available and are basing their comments on anecdotal experiences and personal bias. And while there is certainly nothing wrong with experience, it is usually specific to that individual situation and may or may not have relevance to you. In the end, you want a cost effective, efficient, consistent, healthy, and uncomplicated diet for your dog without the hassle and expense of experimenting with a million different magic formulas. Finding a veterinarian who specializes in gastroenterology/nutrition through any of the veterinary colleges may actually save you money in the long run and would guarantee your dog the benefit of the most up to date information, as well as a individualized treatment approach. I wish you all the best in finding whatever works for your pet and many joyful years together!

[Pitlove]

Star rating is not important at this juncture, but proper growth is. I’d highly recommend looking into NutriSource Large Breed Puppy. It is a great food for dogs with digestive problems.

Edit: I completely agree with Crazy4Cats. I’ve used NV Rawboost and was always dissapointed about the inconsistancy of how many raw pieces I got. Better to supplement your own with meal mixers like Stella & Chewy’s or add fresh foods like C4C said. Always being careful not to tip the calcium scale too far off.

• This reply was modified 10 years, 2 months ago by Pitlove.
• This reply was modified 10 years, 2 months ago by Pitlove.

[Bobby dog]

Just an FYI for anyone who supplements or is thinking of supplementing their dog’s food with a human multi vitamin. Dr. Susan Wynn, DVM used to have a homemade food recipe posted on her site. She took it down because it called for a human multivitamin supplement to balance it. Her explanation from her FB page 8/18/15: “For those of you who have asked – the homemade diet on my website was taken down for a good reason. As it turns out, human multivitamins have, almost across the board, increased their vitamin D contents to a level that approaches the upper safety limit for dogs. So I can’t recommend a generic diet with human multis anymore. There are options, but they are more limited if you want to do this correctly. Make an appointment to discuss the right strategy for you and your dog!”

[Rachel S]

Hello all! This is going to be long, but thank you in advance if you get through this and for all your kind help!

My 10 month old 75 lb lab/bloodhound mix has a sensitive stomach and has since I got him at 8 weeks old. He poops a 2-3 times/walk, in the morning and around 5 each day (he eats directly follow those walks – 7:30 am and 6:30 pm). Not only does the frequency of his bowel movements alarm me but they’re HUGE poops! In the mornings, they start out formed but still soft and progressively get worse as the day goes on. His last poop of the day is always very runny. He doesn’t strain to go, doesn’t seem to be in any discomfort, and doesn’t vomit. He is still full of energy and always happy. He has continued to grow and is a good weight for his size.

When I got him, the foster was feeding him Purina Pro Plan Puppy, so I continued on with that for quite a few months. Then, when he got a bout of diarrhea and knowing his history, the vet switched him over to prescription Purina EN. That got him back to his status quo, but I wanted to find something that could really firm him up. I started feeding him a limited ingredient diet – Zignature, and that brings us to present day. He definitely does the best on the Zignature, but I feel like there is still vast room for improvement.

I have tried pumpkin, goats milk yogurt, probiotics, prebiotics, and Perfect Form (that helped a little but he decided he didn’t like it anymore). He has been on metronidazole before but that made him constipated and when he would finally go to the bathroom, it was still very runny. He has also had multiple fecal tests, so no worms.

I plan to discuss all of this with my vet at his neuter next week, but I want to go in well informed (i.e. low/high fiber, low/high fat, etc.). She also gave me an estimate for some tests – maldigestion profile, fecal O&P plus giardia antigen-antech, canine GI profile – but it comes out to be ~$550 on top of his $450 neuter and it’s just too much for me to spend all at once. Could you kind folks suggest a way for me to prioritize different foods/supplements/tests?

Thank you again for reading through all of this. I love my boy very much, and I want to make sure he is healthy and happy.

[anonymously]

Anyone who takes supplements or gives them to their pets should see this recent Frontline Special: http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/film/supplements-and-safety/

[crazy4cats]

Hi AK-

Sorry about the issues you are having with your pup. I had the same issues with mine and it was stressful. First of all, have you had a few fecal tests done, specifically for both Giardia and Coccidia. They are both common parasites/worms that can cause intermittent loose stools in dogs, especially puppies. That was the issue for us to begin with. Here is a link that was helpful to me to get my puppies tummies healthy again after ridding of those pesky parasites: http://dogaware.com/health/digestive.html This site has a whole host of information on all kinds of dog issues!

My dogs do best on a lower fat with higher fiber food. I’ve had good luck with Victor, Whole Earth Farms and Taste of the Wild so far. I still occasionally add Perfect Form supplement made by The Honest Kitchen when I am transitioning to a different brand. I also add green tripe three days a week to their kibble. It is very stinky but contains natural enzymes and probiotics to their meals. Here is a link with some of the benefits: http://www.dogsnaturallymagazine.com/the-stink-on-tripe/ I buy K9 Natural either freeze dried or frozen green lamb tripe. Again, SO STINKY, but they love it and it’s good for them.

I do also add frozen raw medallions or nuggets to some of their meals as well. I use either Nature’s Variety, Primal or Northwest Naturals, whichever one is having the best deal! I have had no issue adding raw to kibble.

Also, maybe try cutting back on how much you are feeding her. Sometimes overfeeding can lead to loose stools. My dogs have improved a lot, but still sometimes have issues when they are over excited.

Hope some of this can help. Good luck to you!

[InkedMarie]

I have heard that NutriSource is good for dogs with tummy issues.

Regarding raw, I feed ground (meat/bone/organ & some have tripe) from Hare Today & Reel Raw. There is also Raw Feeding Miami & My Pet Carnivore. I just scoop it in a bowl, add the few supplements and feed. More expensive than feeding whole cuts of meat but cheaper than premades. You need a freezer for this.

Whatever you switch to, transition slowly.

[Sara J]

Well yes, just recommend vitamins in general but I am curious and slightly disagree as calcium I’ve been recommended calcium supplements for my pets on more than one occasion but I was looking for a multivitamin

Idea originated from an article here on the lack of nutritional value in dog food that I can’t link unfortunately

[jakes mom]

Not sure what your question is. Do you want vitamins to supplement a vegan/vegetarian pet food? No dog should be on such a food in my opinion. They need protein from meat. They may survive on veg based food but they will not thrive.
A healthy dog eating appropriate food does not need vitamin supplements.

[anonymously]

Corgis tend to put on weight easily, they are herding dogs and need to be active. I had to walk the one I had for 3 to 5 miles a day to keep her trim.
Feed measured amounts twice a day, I would not free feed. See tips in General Guidelines http://www.homeovet.net/dynamic/php/downloads/dog-c8470f2c75dbe4b683205c3919ee2310/dog_diet_complete.pdf

Make sure he is drinking adequate water, maybe add a splash to her food. I like Nutrisca Salmon and Chickpea dry food as a base, but there are other good brands. Check Chewy.com for prices and delivery.
If they have an adequate diet, they don’t need supplements, unless your vet advises differently. I do add a fish oil capsule for dry skin.

I have found this site to be informative. http://skeptvet.com/Blog/category/nutrition/

[Olivia]

My puppy is now almost 6 months. He is a corgi, and his name is Thumper. I’m a bit new to all of this, and I want to be sure my little guy has a healthy diet and is properly nourished. I am just seeking general advice, especially from fellow corgi owners. What’s the best dog food, treats, supplements? How do I ensure he’s getting all the vitamins, protein, etc in his diet? Should I consider getting him a probiotic? Any and all tips and advice are greatly appreciated!