I would like to know if anyone has any information on this illness. Dixie is on 15 mg of predisone and 25 mg of Azathioprine every day. I read that some dogs may do well if the spleen is removed. Would really like to hear some good news. She is my life.
My beloved pit bull rescue, Butch, is ill too. We went into the vet over a week ago Friday because he looked like he was bruised all on his underside, bleeding out into the skin! Very scary, plus he was not acting like himself. Blood tests showed very low red blood cells, like a hemophyliac. More blood was sent away until Monday for more involved testing. That all came back okay, organs were not affected. So we went back this Friday for another blood test, Butch had been on Prednisone 20mg all week and Vitamin K for bleeding. We were happy because we thought he was better, but blood test showed worse!!! More things were going on, like he is making no red blood cells and overmaking the white blood cells. Without further tests she said he has an Autoimmune disease or cancer of some kind. I am sick about it, he is our life too. We love him so much, he is only seven years old to be on 12/21//12! We are not going to put him through anymore tests, we will just make his life as good as can be from now on, he is still eating and loving food, he eats BARF from California, and WYsong to back it up, it is so expensive. We thought we raised Butch right, we did not overvaccinate, we thought, and have fed him only the top stuff. But still he becomes ill with this life threatening illness. Good luck to you, and maybe people will give us some good advice here.
Hound Dog MomParticipant
Hi mydogisme and 1butchroy1 –
Here is a good article and video by Dr. Karen Becker on Autoimmune Hemolytic Anemia. I’m sure others will pop in with some advice, but this can get you guys started. It sounds like it’s due in a big part to over-vaccination.
I loved Dr. Becker’s article, I have stood firm and argued with the vets I have went to about the vaccines for Butch. I have only had three rabies shots because I used the three year. funny how one vet tried to tell me it was a one year and I called him on it by saying they are the same vaccine just the label is different. He was contrite about that! When Butch broke his tooth I had to have it pulled and even tho I refused any other additional vaccines they did talk me into this new vaccine, I think it was leptospirossis(SP), they have the posters all over the office, I did know a person whose lab just died of this, so I got the vaccine and I bet that is what messed Butch up. Can’t say for certain, just a hunch, because I had been so careful about the overvaccinating. At this time Butch is acting and looking much better, his redness is fading on his belly, I will maybe get another blood test done after the holidays to see where everything is. Thank you for the info.
There are many reasons, known and unknown for a dog to develope immune mediated hemolytic anemia. Vaccines may be one of them but how to tell if it is the cause? I have no clue. Vaccine schedules less frequently is an option or none at all after the first few years might be an option. But if you remember when parvo broke out or even longer ago with distemper, vaccines do have their place, just not as often is the dose necessarily needed these days.
AS to the rabies it is the same vaccine used for 1, 2 or 3 yr vaccines but the state regulations recognize the length as to the protection afforded to the dog is different from state to state. Michigan has a 3 yr, Texas is 1 yr, I believe.
Hi 1butchroy1 ~~ Lepto vaccine is one of the worst (for reactions) that you can give your dog. It also has poor efficacy.. I vaccinate all my healthy dogs with the core puppy shots but lepto is one I will ALWAYS refuse..
I’ve read that dietary lectins (proteins in certain foods) can also cause autoimmune hemolytic anemia. If the food you have been feeding has foods that are known to have problematic lectins it may be worth switching foods just as a precaution (since he’s looking and acting better, my guess is it is likely the lepto vaccine but can’t hurt to rule out the food). Foods with lectins that are considered more problematic are chicken, all grains (rice being least), all legumes (including soy and chickpeas), potato, dairy and corn.
Thank you Dr. Tim!! Refreshing point of view :)..
Shawna, my dog Dixie is the one who is also so very sick. She is getting her blood profile taken again on Friday. I feel like I don’t deserve to have her, as I never knew about the shot problems and did what the vets said needs to be done. I thought they would have her BEST interest at heart. I always said do what ever she needs to stay well! Im feeding Dixie organic chicken,boiled,added yesterday organic salmon, Newmens Own Organic beef, can and dry. I mix it all up and make little round balls and then freeze them so she has something that is a treat. But this is her regular meal. I cant see me without her and her without me. Any help or ideas or information would be great.
Dr.Tim, do you have anything you can tell me that I need to know that may help Dixie? She has had every blood test,heart moniters,xrays, that can be done. She was in the oxygen tent for 3 days. She is on 15 mg of predisone and 25 mg of azathioprine daily. I watch her tongue for color changes. She is the love of my life. I read to remove the spleen may work. Any ideas? THANKS!!
Mydogisme, I just went through this with my boy over the last 5 months- tests, medications, etc. I basically fed him whatever he wanted and he seemed to do really well on the Orijen red meat. It was the only food I found that he actually looked excited to get and it was high enough calorie to help him gain some weight back. He also varied between the deli fresh rolls, Weruva canned, and baby food (without garlic or onions). Our vet also did therapeutic laser treatment to help him regenerate blood cells, which made him feel better for a few months. We never did find a cause and he wasn’t vaccinated this year. Best of luck to your Dixie, it’s a horrible disease.
Dr. Tim, what do you think of this, when we took Butch in to vet, we thought he had a knocked out tooth from hard play with our son (Butch has a green soft rubber ball he loves), there was blood in the back of his mouth, that is when the vet saw all the hives on all of his body and the bleeding that was forming under his body out into his skin, even the whites of his eyes. Butch loves to play ball and my son who is 22 loves to play with him. I found myself constantly telling them to settle down, I would tell my son, you are playing too hard with the dog, you are the adult, you have to see when it is getting too much for the dog! The dog wants his ball thrown, kicked, tossed, whatever he can talk you into doing. Anyway, this is what has occured to me might be going on, in part possibly, Urticaria? Thanks. Beth
Beth, do you mean Dr Mike, the administrator of this site or Dr Tim from Dr Tim’s food?
I meant Dr. Tim from Dr Tim’s dog food since he had advised me earlier, but either would be welcome to hear from. Beth
Dixie went to her vet yesterday to do have the weekly blood test done,we will know on Monday. I spoke with her vet about having her spleen removed and would that help. He told me is would not lessen her life and it would be a 50/50 because the spleen removes the good and bad cells. At the time it sounds confusing but doing some research pays off. Why and how our dogs get the disorder should be looked into especially if it is as simple as no vaccines on the 2ed and 3 erd yr of life. Am I understanding this right? I wonder what the Vet for any President of the USA would say about the dogs that have lived in the White House. If they had this illness what would be the 1st form of treatment? Would they start off with Predisone? Would they remove the spleen right away? Where is the magic answer I want for my fur baby!
To Feather83, Could you please give me some more info on what type of laser treatments your vet used on your baby? I thought about making an appointment to see a Hemotaligist for me and start asking him about the problems and solutions to this in dogs. My insurance will not pay for my visit,I’m sure but since the same meds are used on Dixie as are used in humans, maybe something new could be considered. Dixies vet told me he is in contact with the Dr. who is the specialist in the US on this and the best in the country. I wish I could snap my fingers and she would be as good as new, for her sake.
To 1butchrun1, How is your dog???Dixie isn’t doing well at all. They gave her a blood transfusion yesterday. Today she didn’t look good but she is very ill. They sent off blood work and we will know what it will say tomarrow. I can not keep her wondering why is she being treated like this. She hasn’t done anything wrong and just like a baby I tell her ‘mommy is here and she’s going to be ok but I don’t think she will. My heart is shattered. My baby may have to be layed to rest tomarrow. I wish it was me, I love her so
mydogisme My heart is so heavy for you, words cannot give you the comfort you need and it is all we have to give. My Butch is in like a remission at this time. I know I am very lucky and am taking advantage of it by loving on him more than ever. Let me know what happens as you need to. God Bless You at this horrible time and give you comfort. Beth
Beth, its 6 am here, i keep getting up to take Dixie out side. i cant take it. her little place mat is still down for her food dishes, i kept it and a towel down where she ate to make sure no germs got on her. i was spoon feeding her in bed last week because she was to weak to stand. what am i going to do with out her?i just cant take it,she is my baby,she had no one else to care for her and what about the fact she had no mother dog ,she was alone when I got her and now shes alone again,my poor baby
I took my German shepherd Ida, outside, was gone about five minutes. I was shocked to find my Maltese, Sophie, on the couch with my vitamin supplements and prescription pills! How in the world did she get them off the coffee table and then take them to the couch. She “moved “definitely five and possibly six pills. Ok, there are definitely two possibly three missing. I believe she ate two garlic gelcaps(2000mg garlic bulb), and possibly a caprylic acid gel cap. I was in shock… And anger! It took me about twenty to twenty five minutes to finally give her hydrogen peroxide. I don’t know if it went down so I tried again. After about a total of half hour maximum forty five minutes, she vomited twice, liquid(she had not eaten yesterday before this) bile colored without any gel substance so I saw nothing. I put a garlc gel cap in my mouth and moved it around n my mouth and it was competent dissolved in less than four minutes and did not taste bad. I decided that she may or may not have vomited it up as the substance is clear, odorless to humans that is, and almost tasteless. Hemolytic anemia is a horrible thing and I will watch soph for the next week or two. I was unable to obtain activated charcoal in time and then we couldn’t get it down her. I am disabled, and my husband has been out of work for six months, but found at least part time work the day before so wasn’t home. Before you judge us for not taking her in, we spent three grand in the summer on the dogs vet bills and we’ve spent hundreds more a couple months ago on skin problems with Ida. I’ve read what to watch for, but does anybody know anything I can do to support her or minimize reprecussions of this? I thought more protein, folic acid and supplements, so I gave her a half sardine this am. She’s already on blue buffalo grain free dog food, homemade topper made with different good quality meat and vegetables and fruits appropriate for dogs, and dermis supplement in her food. She gets tiny amounts of homemade treats we make with peanut butter, oatmeal, banana, flourless cookies we and the dogs like! Any advise? Ok I believe treat the patient not the diagnosis. She is acting fine thus far as it has only been 16 hours. Thanks for any help!
I have heard good things about this service, that it was well worth the fee.
“The ASPCA Animal Poison Control Center (APCC) is your best resource for any animal poison-related emergency, 24 hours a day, 365 days a year. If you think your pet may have ingested a potentially poisonous substance, call (888) 426-4435. A $65 consultation fee may be applied to your credit card”. https://www.aspca.org/pet-care/animal-poison-control
I would just give clear fluids or broth for now, hopefully flush it out. Watch for vomiting and diarrhea. A vet may recommend some blood tests……
My first choice would be to take the dog to the emergency vet right away, a lot of these supplements and medications can have delayed reactions as far as causing damage and abnormal blood values. You may not see it right away. There may be something they can do to flush it out of her system faster. I would at least call the emergency vet and see what they recommend.
- This reply was modified 3 years, 8 months ago by anonymously.
Have you called your regular veterinarian for advice?
One thing that stuck me in regards to the garlic ingestion is that you said the product is odorless/ tasteless. It is the compounds in garlic that are responsible for odor and taste that cause problems in dogs. If this version was “deodorized” the toxicity level may be decreased.
Hi Aimee! Thankyou. Actually, this happened after business hours, so I gave the peroxide to induce vomiting and read up on what they would do. I have not been happy with my vet with 13 visits in 2015 and planned on finding another this year after we get caught up on finances. I am hoping you are correct as the gelcaps are obviously deodorized and tasteless(at least to me) and the label states it as well though soph obviously disagreed. If she should show any signs of hemolytic anemia(I am with her except to take my dog out as I am mostly bedridden) I of course, will take her to emergency care, but don’t want to take her in for blood testing as I read several, actually many sites where supportive care is the treatment. I was a hot mess yesterday after this happened, but feel calmer today objectively thinking that I did make her vomit a couple times. I also read where many people give garlc to dogs(though I wouldn’t) and even some nutritionists recommend this, so I feel a bit better about that. I know that I must watch her for several weeks as well. After this is all said and done I will post an update. I plan to give her additional foods which will increase her production of red blood cells and hopefully ride this out. my vet is open now, so I will call, though I doubt I will take her in unless absolutely necessary since I’ve found out they give antibiotics every time they stub their toe till they are sick from the antibiotics. As ***** would say, “bad!” Ok just called vet they were pleased with the peroxide3percent one tsp two different times as she’s ten pounds, and told me signs and symptoms to watch for i.e. Lethargy, weakness, panting, decreased appetite, pale gums, redness, bruising, petechiae, any signs of generalized not feeling well, and to bring her in if she has problems. They said they could draw blood work to see, but thought watching was sufficient at this point, so yay. Liver, sardines, mandarins for Sophie today as treats with her peanut butter cookie treats. Thanks, Aimee and anonymous, I will post if any changes if nothing else to help the next little precious patient!
Sounds like this incident will soon be behind you! Since the product was deodorized many of the problematic compounds were removed which would decrease the toxicity exposure.
I think the induced vomiting right away may have made a difference, time will tell. I am glad you are listening to a veterinarian. Garlic in any form is toxic to dogs.
A call to a pet poison control hotline would have been warranted (in case anyone else goes through this).
PS: I wouldn’t assume anything about supplements. See the recent Frontline Special (PBS)
Here it is: http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/film/supplements-and-safety/
ANONYMOUSLY, you are right. A call to the poison or emergency center is exactly what I should have done. I wasn’t thinking clearly, obviously. I still must watch Sophie carefully for any adverse reactions for a couple weeks. Regarding that pbs special frontline you recommended, Lord help us all! I had heard things in the past, but had no idea it was so prevalent! I have assumed( yes, I know what they say about ass-u-me-ing, and this time it fits me for sure) that if it was manufactured here in the good ole USA, then it would be safe. Not so! That freaked me out. Who knows what the heck we are taking, cuz we certainly can’t trust our supplements anymore. I will finish watching it and make educated decisions regarding supplements in the future. Only 21percent of the supplements at Walmart, Walgreens, gnc and target I think if I remember are the real uncontaminated stuff? What in the world have we been putting in our bodies? And my precious soph…hmmmmm, that’s ridiculous. The government jumps in so many things, this is something the Foa should be regulating. THANKYOU for opening my eyes and ears! Keep spreading the word, cuz you may just save lives… God bless you!
I’m sorry to hear what you and your pup are going through 🙁
Here is some info on garlic poisoning. If your dog exhibits any of these symptoms I would immediately take her to the vet!!!
Symptoms of Garlic Toxicity in Dogs and Cats
It’s important to note that it may take up to two to four days after your pet eats garlic for symptoms to appear.
According to Lee, symptoms of garlic toxicity include breathlessness, lethargy, diarrhea, vomiting, pale gums, an elevated heart rate, an increased respiratory rate, weakness, exercise intolerance, and collapse.
Your pet also could lose interest in food as a result of this type of poisoning.”
El Doctor, I hope I am replying to you, actually I don’t know what I am doing so you may never get this, I am posting and hoping the people who have been so helpful and caring i.e. Aimee, anonymously, and you. Anyway, the symptoms you gave me and the site is actually more extensive than the vet told me, so thank you. I thought they told me it may cause problems weeks after!? Anyway, I will breathe easier if she does, on Tuesday, which would be four and a half days. It’s only been 24 hours… Anonymously really opened my eyes up for my own body in regards to supplements. You should check out that frontline video as it is shocking! I’ll post on here tues if all goes well, I can’t think of the other. Thank you and God bless you!
I can’t offer much in the way of advice of garlic poisoning, however my Lab did get into rat poison 2 years ago and he’s doing fine. Sounds like you did the right thing while the vet’s office was closed!
Best wishes to you and your pup that she makes a full and fast recovery!
Oh pit love, I’m so glad to hear from a pit lover, I hate that they get a bad rap! So do German shepherds, though my Maltese, Sophie is actually the biter! Thanks for your caring… I am sitting on pins and needles every time she pants, or anything or seems to breathe too fast or her heart race I panic… All in my mind I’m hoping… The next few days will tell, though. I’ll update Tuesday! Have a fanpitastic weekend!
Yes! They do. Ours is a huge baby. He’s wonderful with other dogs, kids, all people, cats, even goats! I love GSD’s as well and actually all the breeds that people think are dangerous! haha.
You’re so welcome. I’m a worrier myself and my pitbull has had so many ups and downs mainly with skin issues, so I feel for anyone going through a medical crisis! Looking forward to your Tuesday update!
Thank you for your kind words 😉
We will all be hoping the best for you and your precious pup!
My little dog had the hemolytic anemia. I saved his life in the last day. THe vet gave him pills, steroids and that was not helping. In two days his red blood cells were dropping and there was nothing I could do. Out of desperation I pulled out a syringe and filled it with Lilly of the Desert Aloe Vera Juice Inner Fillet, gave it to him three times a day, about 30mg. He is about 15 lbs. Got the juice at the Whole Foods supermarket. The improvement was showing the very next day. After one week blood results were back to normal and the anemia never came back. That was about two years ago. Please go and get this juice, do not get the gel, only juice. Give it to your dogs, three times a day. if the dog is big, give him much much more. there is no overdosing, this juice will not harm the dog. Please contact me if you need more info. I hope more dogs are saved with this simple juice.
forgot to mention that I gave him the juice to drink, straight into his mouth, forced it into him.
Strange… I bought some aloe Vera juice the other day for my gsd for skin issues which I’m trying to decide how to get her to take it because my dogs do not take a syringe against their wills. My Maltese, Sophie bites, and my gsd , well when she refuses, you can hang it up. I wil try to figure something out. So far so good on Sophie’s garlic episode, need to wait a couple more days. Dealing with skin issues seems like nonstop with my shepherd, now. she’s on so many supplements, but not the aloe Vera juice… Yet. Thanks so much Anna c! And to pitlove, I kid you not… After our mention of pits and German shepherds… My husband was walking Ida today and some guy opened his garage and his pit charged Ida, but apparently didn’t want to fight thank God, but Ida was so freaked out she was yelping so loudly and there was a huge ruckus people coming out of their houses and my husband trying to separate these two! Pit owner was right behind his dog, poor guy fell he was running so fast., Ida made it out with one small wound which will be healed in a few days with silversol silver, and the pit was unharmed, so I would say that a pit and German shepherd met on bad terms today and one scrape was it! They didn’t want to fight, Ida just got scared and it freaked them both out! Ironic since we just spoke of this kind of thing! Ok to deal with those skin issues, but I’m on the wrong forum… Figures!
Suzanne- Sorry to hear about that encounter. Unfortunetly some pitbulls do have some dog aggression issues. I’ve noted that most of those with those sorts of issues are ex-fighters so I can’t help but feel for them and be understanding. I am thankful that mine is not one of those! Glad no one was seriously injured!
- This reply was modified 3 years, 8 months ago by Pitlove.
Suzanne, that Frontline Special scared me too. I only take a few things (re: supplements)…..but will do some re-evaluating. Sometimes, “Less is more”.
Check out The SkeptVet’s blog on Herbs and Supplements, I tried to provide the link but was unable to do so. I find the site helpful and informative when trying to make decisions about pet healthcare.
Aimee, anonymously, pitlove, eldoctor, Anna c, and forum readers, thank you so much for all the advise and thoughtfulness! I really feel that you care about my Maltese, Sophie. She has been fine except for being a little more tired the past couple days, then vomited a small amount this morning, but is eating, drinking, and urinating fine. She has had no other symptoms and I truly believe that with great food and good care, she will make her new red blood cells and be perfectly fine. I have read veterinary journals i.e. Experiments which are horrible to the lab dogs, but I digress. I learned that day five is frequently when problems are SEEN, though if the dog ate a bunch it may have vomiting and diarrhea very soon. The blood work is abnormal the very next day, but they may appear fine till day five which in one study was sorta level then started slowly dropping on day seven. They replace approximately one percent of their red blood cells daily, so it takes awhile. Red blood cells have a life of 120 days. Vomiting should be induced immediately and then take to emergency vet because they might give activated charcoal or other care which may keep your dog from any serious problems. If you didn’t induce vomiting in the first two hours, then just take your dog in anyway. If your dog develops signs and symptoms of panting, fast heart rate, fast breathing, restlessness, lethargy, portwine coloured urine, pale gums, not eating or drinking, weakness, dark colored skin, bruising, finally collapse, obviously you needed to get dog in at beginning of all this. There isn’t a cure, but the treatment is supportive i.e. I’ve fluids, possible corticosteroids, antibiotics though I didn’t get why, and possibly a blood transfusion with oxygen as the red blood cells are how the oxygen travels through system. If you take pet in, then they have an excellent prognosis, but if you try to deal with this at home, your pet may die or suffer organ failure, heart problems, and may even need surgery. Now it’s time for a healthy diet to hel make red blood cells. An iron rich(think liver). Diet will help. They recommend meat, eggs, fish, folic acid(found in enriched cereals and fortified products) and vitamin c. That’s all I can remember off hand. Sorry so long, but i want to help anyone who goes through the same thing. Btw the studies were on onions and garlic, allium family. Thanks again to all of your support it meant so much to me, you have no idea. I’ll update after this is completed! And to Pitlove, that pit charged but only wanted to sniff. My precious Ida freaked out and that’s what started the problem. Neither dog was at all viscous. God bless!!!
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