[Jenn H]

Not all kibble is created equal. That’s one reason why you should switch brands every few months.
Feeding kibble isn’t always about convenience. Sometimes it’s a food that agrees with a particular dog. Sometimes it’s the affordable option.

You can always add supplements if your pet is lacking something until you find a food that agrees with them and provides all the nutrients.

[anonymous]

Kidney damage cannot be reversed. Daily sub q fluids will act like dialysis, prescription food will help. Listen to your vet, there are no miracle cures, most supplements are scams.
Ask your vet if pain meds and anti-nausea meds would help keep her comfortable?

[anonymous]

By IV treatments I assume you mean sub q fluids. I went through this with a dog that had kidney damage due to Lyme disease that was not diagnosed in time.
Anyway, I gave her sub q fluids once a day, and it helped as it is similar to dialysis.
Kidney damage can’t be reversed. She lasted a couple of years this way, some good days, some bad days. Prescription food helped, but most supplements are a scam in my opinion.
Listen to your vet, beware of homeopathic vets, there are no miracle cures. Pain meds prescribed by the vet were helpful.
Some science based information here: http://skeptvet.com/Blog/category/herbs-and-supplements/

[Emily S]

A month-and-a-half ago, I acquired my 12 year old Lab from my parents, he’s been mostly seditary for the last 1+ years, and was struggling with arthritus when I got him. He could barely walk a few block.

I’ve added Glucosamine/chondroitin/MSM supplement to his diet, along with increasing the length of his walks – to the point where he wanted to jog 2 days ago! He jogged about a quarter mile, and he doesn’t consider 1 mile to be a long enough walk 😉

He’s a very large dog, in his “prime” weighed 120lbs. He’s now down to a slim/healthy 90lbs. QUESTION: should I be feeding him Adult Dog food or Senior Dog food? Due to being seditary, he has lost the majority of the muscle mass in his hind legs – I’d like to see his strength increase. Currently feeding Fromm’s Senior Dog Food

[Daisy F]

Hello All,

On Monday, of this week 10/17/16, I received the call from the vet, after determining blood results, that my beloved mini schnauzer Lily (12.5 years old – and have had her since 3 months) is diagnosed with in the beginning stages of chronic kidney disease. She has the physical symptoms of excessive drinking, excessive urinating inside, and lost of weight (stable 16.5 lbs down to 12 lbs). Her appetite is still there; however; as the vet encourages me this is still a good sign for her.

I am not resorting to putting on diapers for her as, she is my baby, and has always been spoiled; and it makes me sad to have to resort to diapers in order to prevent urination on our wooden floors, but an easy 30 second clean-up I do not mind doing.

Anyway, here are her important blood results:

BUN 38 (normal range 7-25)
PHOS 7.0 (normal range 2.9-6.6)
CRE 1.7 (normal range 0.3-1.4)

Vet instructed to start providing her Hills k/d canned food diet, and as I looked on the reviews online; all are fantastic (low sodium, low phosphorus, low protein) diet, although vet said reducing her protein is not necessarily suggested at this point because her protein levels are fine. So I guess my question is what sorts of fresh homemade food am I able to still provide to her in combination of the Hills k/d diet? Keeping in mind her sodium levels and phosphorus levels need to be given in low amounts? What foods are these? Ive researched but become overwhelmed with the information given and then it feels like its contradicting to other materials and feel lost and confused and not as confident about providing the nutrition she needs; without going broke on my end. Money is not a huge issue for me; but with the prescribed canned diet; alone- it will be difficult to manage that on itself.

Lily also started taking prebiotic and probiotic supplements to aide. Any other supplements I should know about? I am taking her back to the vet today after work; since the vet also suggested starting her on fluid therapy to help keep her hydrated. She will be instructing me how to do it at home and Lily wouldn’t need it all the time; but would need to keep an eye on her.

She went in for her first IV treatment yesterday (as the first step towards her supportive care) and started her prescribed diet. Her personality is still all there; and I know she is getting much older; I would just appreciate anything descriptive resource/link that would help me in this difficult process and definitely a new lifestyle change for my babygirl.

I took the day of work yesterday, since I was still in tears finding out about her disease and how serious it could get so I was able to do my own research.

I have found this website http://www.dogaware.com/health/kidneymedical.html#acidosis to be helpful as well.

If you have any questions for me about her condition; I will certainly answer them; any information helps 🙂

Momma Daisy

[T]

Hi Laura!

It’s great that you’re trying to rule out major physical diseases through diagnostic testing. If nothing is found, I urge you to find a holistic vet who is interested in nutrition. This is an area that just isn’t covered well in most conventional vet practices.

I work with dogs with similar problems often. I find that once I talk to their owners/guardians at length, there are usually a host of other minor symptoms that have been overlooked. I personally love using homeopathy and nutrition/supplements to help dogs in situations like this.

I only work with people who are local to Phoenix, AZ, but you can look for a vet near you (or one who does phone consultations) at http://theavh.org or http://www.ahvma.org/find-a-holistic-veterinarian/

There are many articles about dog nutrition and holistic health care on my blog: http://naturalalternativesvet.com/blog You might find some of them helpful in your situation.

Tabitha (Dr. Thompson)

[Renee B]

You might check out http://www.pawtree.com/arkansaspets and do a quick pet profile. They offer great natural dog foods, treats, supplements based on your dogs needs. They may have what your looking for.

[Renee B]

Check out http://www.pawtree.com/arkansaspets for a personalized pet profile. You can change up their foods, add nutritional seasonings (pawpairings) and also consider supplements. All natural products made in Texas and created for specific concerns.

[Renee B]

You can do a pet profile and list your pet concerns and this site will tell you which food will benefit your pet the most. http://www.pawtree.com/arkansaspets
Along with natural foods they have some supplements that will treat certain things. Better pet diets can decrease health problems.

[anonymous]

With seniors I will feed 3-4 small meals per day instead of 1 or 2, and I add a tasty topper, maybe a bite of scrambled egg or chopped broiled chicken liver, chopped cooked lean meat or chicken….you get the idea. If he is not drinking enough water, add a splash to meals.
The only supplement I use for dogs is fish oil (1 capsule a day) not sure if it actually does anything.

[Laura M]

My breeder (Wirehaired Pointing Griffons) has an older male (12 yrs. old) that is slowly losing weight. He eats very well (quality kibble and canned food), his bodily functions are good, his attitude is happy and he wags and seems to love life. He has had every test known by several veterinarians and is going for an ultrasound today. Apart from the results of the ultrasound, everything is perfectly normal. I know that sometimes as pets get older they lose weight, just as some of us people do. He doesn’t look emaciated but when you feel him he is quite thin and never was before this started happening about a year or so ago I think. Is there any food or supplement that might be recommended to help with this older dog syndrome? You all have such great recommendations to so many problems so I thought I would post this on my breeder’s behalf. Any advice is much appreciated. Thanks!

[Shannon W]

Hi Shawna,
First of all, I am so so so sorry to hear about your journey with Audrey’s health issues, my heart breaks for both of you 🙁
Secondly, this is a whole new experience for me but having just returned from the vet I am of course looking for related information. My 16.5 year old terrier Brownie (I know we are so lucky to have had her this long <3 ) stopped eating and was diagnosed with renal failure. She spent 4 days on fluids, antibiotics etc. and is home with aluminum hydroxide, antibiotics, an antacid (?) and phenobarb for seizures as well as subcutaneous fluids for the remainder of her time I suspect. That is ok, I would do anything for her…

I am just beginning the research on Kidney failure and have read many of your posts so far but not all of them. In one of them you recommend the SP Canine Renal Support. I have looked at that as well as the SP Renafood tabs which people also recommend. I was wondering why you chose the Canine support as opposed to the Renafood if you don’t mind? The only other question I will bother you with now ( don’t want to wear out my welcome here 😉 is if you have had any experience using Rehmannia 8 which many holistic vets recommend… Right now we are getting through one day at a time but I would like to start her on supplements asap while I figure out her diet and other vitamins/mineral needs etc. In the next few weeks (cross your fingers and toes please) I will get her to a holistic vet in an attempt to get her on “a plan” that will be more beneficial for her. Thank you SO much for your response and know that you came here through a nightmare but you are making such a difference for the rest of us and our beloved fur babies.

[HoundMusic]

I’ve been seriously considering giving the Bright Mind a try for a dog who started having massive, uncontrollable grand mal seizures @ 9yrs old. He’s now 11 and has a notable degree of brain damage, but doing better on a home cooked diet (as opposed to raw), even without supplements, so it’s obvious diet does have an impact on cognitive health.

I don’t have a single issue with feeding any of Purina’s higher grade foods – in fact, when I was actively breeding, Purina ONE and Puppy/Dog Chow gave me outstanding results. These were hunting dogs that quickly fell apart on a feed that was even slightly lacking, and quite honestly, there’s a reason most show & field breeders don’t touch the holistic, “boutique” type foods, and it’s NOT the price. When your entire kennel is going to pot, you’re desperate enough to pay anything.

However, I haven’t fed anything Purina in close to 8yrs, since they changed their formulas back in ’08. I did just pick up a back of the Purina ONE Mature Adult tonight, since this weekend was too busy to do a raw food shopping, and the ingredients look very similar to Bright Mind. I’ll update if I stick with it and notice any differences…

[anonymous]

How long have you had him? He may be grieving his former owner and home, maybe there were other dogs there that he bonded with. It is very hard for some dogs, especially a senior.
The first month will be the worst. Just be extra nice to him but give him his space, hopefully he’ll come around.

You can presoak the kibble in water overnight in the fridg and then add a little plain homemade chicken broth (no onions) or mix with a soft topper. If you don’t see him drinking water, add a little to his food, senior small breeds are vulnerable to get bladder stones, struvite and urinary tract infections if they don’t drink enough water. Take him out frequently to urinate.

Keep his diet simple, maybe a limited ingredient food, I like Nutrisca. I wouldn’t add vegetables for now, they can cause loose stools in some dogs. I wouldn’t add any supplements unless advised to do so by a veterinarian that has examined him.

[crazy4cats]

I hope he does well with the Pure Vita. Pumpkin never really worked that great for my pups. Surprisingly, unsweetened applesauce was better. I think because it contains pectin. Check out http://www.dogaware.com. It has a lot of helpful info on digestive disorders in dogs. I would try to add just one new thing at a time so you know what is helping and what isn’t.

My dogs had both giardia and coccidia when they were young and it took some time to get them back on track when we finally got rid of all their bugs. You could at least rule them out with a fecal so you won’t be switching up food and supplements for no reason like I did for a long time. Please report back on your progress!

[S G]

I bought the Pure Vita Turkey kibble and am going to try mixing it with the organic natural planet canned turkey to see if that helps firm up his stool. I also bought slippery elm supplement as it’s the main ingredient in Perfect Form that you recommended too. I really don’t think he has worms, parasites but will take him in and ask the rescue if they can over the bill IF this new diet/supplements don’t work. I’m going to also continue adding pumpkin for a while into his food and probiotics since i still have both but need to eventually simply his diet to exclude supplements, i don’t mind mixing kibble with canned if that’s what he needs to have firm stools. Thank you ALL for recommending HIGH QUALITY fiber foods. It just goes to show not all dogs are the same, where one dog could only tolerate RAW(my shitzu) and this rescue seems to need some kibble. I’m really against most kibbles, as most have LOW QUALITY ingredients and grains/carbs, but there are so many NEW HIGH quality ones on the market nowadays, it may be the way of the future for keeping a rescue dog healthy. I’ll let you all know if this works.

[crazy4cats]

Hi SG-
Congratulations on your new addition. My pups had a rough start too. And still are a little sensitive and get diarrhea now and then. Pure Vita’s Turkey recipe by NutriSource is a kibble they have done really well on. It has 6% fiber. It’s too expensive to feed regularly, but I watch for specials and sales. Also Perfect Form by The Honest Kitchen is a supplement that has been helpful as well. They just finished a bag of Whole Earth Farms Turkey and Duck which they did great on also.

Make sure you do a fecal test with vet if there hasn’t been one done yet. It could be due to worms, parasites, coccidia, etc. Good luck!

[zcRiley]

Zignature Limited Ingredient Formula Dry Dog Food (Turkey, lamb, or duck)

Key Benefits:
Grain-free and limited ingredient formula
Gluten-free diet
No potato, chicken or eggs (hard to find!)
Complete and balanced diet for all life stages
Made in the USA

ADD ONE PER DAY for joint health:
Nutramax Dasuquin with MSM Soft Chews Joint Health Large Dog Supplement

Go to the vet for a thorough assessment of which type of arthritis he has and make sure there are no other ailments. Blood work and fecal testing, too. Keep him warm and dry, and controlled exercise is key, get him moving on fun walks. You can turn this around, good luck!

[crazy4cats]

Hi Sara B-
I’m sorry you are having trouble getting your pup to eat. I cannot relate as I have two lab mix dogs who eat anything and everything. I mostly feed them kibble meals with different toppers such as canned food, eggs, tripe and various fresh foods. But, I also try to feed one home cooked meal every now and then. I formulated a recipe on: https://secure.balanceit.com/. It is a site where you can choose what protein, fat and carbs that you want to use. Also, can choose what percentage of the meal you want to be protein and so forth.

They sell supplements to balance the meals. The recipes are free unless your dog has a health condition and then you may need to pay for vet assistance. Good luck. I hope you can get her eating.

[Bullwrinkle]

Frani V.,

Hello, all. I finally registered but have sought all your great for a long time. As for Frani V’s question on Atopica, I can only tell you my personal experience and what I know of others I’ve spoken with and what I learned from my vet, that also applies to APOQUEL (I will note the similarities, and try to locate the link which I do have).

Atopica was suggested by by vet #1 to my English Bulldog. She had severe allergies, food and environmental, among other medical issues. My precious special needs baby girl. She was a spayed at 6 mos, so this was some time after. It was suggested that we start out 7x/week administering Atopica. The idea was to get it built up in her system then back off to 2 or 3x/week max as is recommended. She was ~47 lbs, she was prescribed the 100mg Atopica. Checking in every 2 weeks, since I was paying $170 a pop, I was told to keep it up for a few months. Forget that. I started to skip one day a week, then 2 days a week. Of course she had flares so idiot vet said back to everyday. I was still dealing with her other maladies during this time, plus 5 aging cats with their issues ranging from failing kidneys, asthma, hypertrophic cardiomyothapy, a tortoise with a collapsing pyramid shell, the usual, so time escaped me too quickly. I ended up finding a good vet because of a botched knee surgery from idiot’s referral. Blessing in disguise.

My baby started having seizures. It was sounds or over excited that set it off. I realized she had been on Atopica at 100mg every single day for a solid year. Seizures tend to be more prevalent in smaller dogs but they do happen and were documented. It has happened to all kinds of dogs. But, it has worked for many others as well although, I was not privy to those dogs histories. This was some, maybe 7 yrs ago now, at least. I pulled her off everything except for any allergy pills and only when she needed them. She had 4 seizures, when I stopped all meds and supplements, no more seizures. After a few weeks, I added her fish oil and joint supplement back one at a time and a month apart. No seizure. Atopica was the seizure producer. I lit up the idiot about it, told her she really needs to more careful or at least more informed. Told I would do the same as I was leaving her practice.

The good vet, as he described Atopica to me, and is similar to what I’ve found and read about Apoquel. It shuts off immune receptors. And when you have an immune compromised dog, or cat, to begin with the last thing you want to do is shut off receptors because you don’t know what else is being shut off or being compromised. Immunosuppressive have their place, don’t get me wrong, and I relied on the occasional 5mg prednisone in lieu of giving my girl a fistful of benadryl that would only work for a few hours when she was really bad. But only after I’d tried everything else. Pred was a last resort. So do I believe in their use? Yes. But ever so carefully and not on a regular basis like Atopica and Apoquel.

I can’t get the link to hyperlink but this has some interesting info. http://vitalanimal.com/apoquel-dog-1/

Sorry this was such a long post, but I get anxious when I see questions about Atopica. I had to let my baby go, it’ll be 2 yrs in Dec. She was only 8yrs 4mos. She taught me so much, she endured too much, her kidneys took it in the end. I became quite educated but even our own dogs are so different from each other. I still feel I didn’t learn fast enough for her. Please, please do your research thoroughly on Atopica and Apoquel. Apoquel is still relatively new. You know your pet best!

[Christin K]

Reading this post, and all the responses has been a real eye opener for me. After taking Daphne, my Bichon Poodle mix to the vet twice in the past month to the tune of $400, and being told the next option is expensive tests, I figured I needed to look at ways to nip this thing in the bud as opposed to chasing it after it starts.

My vet “prescribed” Science Diet I/D. My personal opinion is that Science Diet is horrid. From my understanding by friends who have worked in the veterinary setting, vets get kick backs for “prescribing” Science Diet. The ingredient list is horrid. Pork liver? Whole grain corn? Seriously? 14% fat content? For a dog with colitis? Ridiculous!

I did a little bit of research on the internet for dogs with sensitive stomachs. Daphne’s episodes always start with throwing up. Then comes the profuse bloody diarrhea. I am beginning to wonder if the two correlate; she gets an upset stomach, stops eating, which brings on the inflamed intestine. I could be completely wrong, but she seemed like she was starting into another episode this morning by throwing up. I gave her a Tums with her food. She really didn’t want to eat her food, but she gave it a good college try.

I’m trying Wellness Simple dog food, which is fish and potato based, and has limited ingredients. I have come to the conclusion that kibbles seem to bring on the colitis, so I’m sticking with wet for for the time being. So far, so good. I’m also using a probiotic which I received from the vet. However, I think I’m going to switch to a goat’s milk formula which has a probiotic.

I personally think that one size does not fit all dogs. First of all, colitis can be caused by just about anything. My vet thinks that Daphne’s first bout was brought on by the stress of Tropical Storm Hermine. It’s a distinct possibility since Daphne was extremely adverse to going potty outside, and only did with much prodding. Why the second bout came on is anyone’s guess. We had a thunderstorm the night before, but this is Florida. We have thunderstorms all the time. Stool samples showed an elevated amount of bacteria in her intestine. I’ve been wondering if she’s been sneaking into the cat’s litter box for a treat. Maybe it is something more serious like Crohn’s. For now, I’m trying the diet change, and have actually considered cooking her food (fish and sweet potato) if it comes down to it. I’m also going to purchase an herbal supplement to help her with the storm anxiety, especially since we have Hurricane Matthew bearing down on Florida at the moment.

I read about using chamomile tea to settle the stomach and intestines. I might try that route as well.

• This reply was modified 9 years, 2 months ago by Christin K.

[pitlove]

Hi Darlene-

You may want to go over to the review side of this site and look at the Bright Mind review. There was a very interesting debate about this exact question. What was determined was that the levels of MCT’s in Bright Mind could in fact NOT be achieved through supplementation. I know quite a few people with dogs on Bright Mind and all have said it’s been working great to help their older dogs cognitive function. Definitely worth a shot!

[pitlove]

That’s a great idea Hound Music. The calcium supplement could actually be the answer to the issue.

Is this a vet you’ve been seeing for a long time? If not or there is not much invested there maybe call around and switch to one that has a lot of experience with your breed.

[HoundMusic]

Ok! I understand now. Unfortunetly I believe that Ca and Phos go hand in hand. If the Ca is low the Phos will also be low. I do not believe (but could be wrong) that you can still achieve low Phos levels with calcium appropriate for a small/medium breeds needs for growth. Really sounds like a frustrating problem indeed! What does your vet think?

No, you’re absolutely right – calcium & phosphorous tag along together, and while phos is always lower, if a food has high levels of calcium, it usually has elevated phos, as well. Moderate protein ones will naturally have lower phosphorous, though, so I was hoping to find something along those lines that would have less than the usual puppy formulations. Even talking about it makes me frustrated.

My Vet is absolutely useless. IVDD is epidemic in my breed, even worse in this bloodline, and by now I can recognize its symptoms just by picking a three month old puppy up beneath the front legs. Vet is brushing the hitching off as pano (probably thinks I’m hallucinating), but he’s not the one who’s had Beagles for over 22yrs. For now, I’ve decided to start him on a calcium supplement until I’ve switched foods, and see if that helps…

[aimee]

I just thought I’d comment since The Honest Kitchen ( THK) foods have been discussed in regards to LBP’s with the concerns referenced back to me.

The concern I have with THK is that not all of the nutrient profiles they have published currently meet AAFCO.

Here are a few examples:

“Love” is marketed as an all life stages food: ~4825 kcals/kg
THK reports Love’s Ca content as 1.19% DM Using the AAFCO min 1%DM and that any diet over 4000kcals/kg must be corrected for energy density the min calcium should be 1.37% The correction factor is 4825/3500 X 1% = 1.37 %

So here we see a diet below AAFCO min for Calcium. Using the newer AAFCO min of 1.2% DM and energy density of 4000kcals/kg. It is clear that even before using the necessary correction factor the diet will be below AAFCO The correction factor in the new guidelines 4825/4000 x 1.2% = 1.44%

“Thrive” is another all life stages food ~4859kcals/kg

THK reports Ca as 1.34%. Min Ca to meet AAFCO profiles :4859/3500 x 1 = 1.38% or 4859/4000 x 1.2 = 1.45%. Either way a smidge below AAFCO.

Looking at another nutrient from Thrive: THK reports Vit E as 54.11 IU
AAFCO min 4859/3500 X 50 = 69.4IU or 4859/4000 X 50 = 60.7 IU.. either way the diet falls short.

THK used to report the Vit E content in Keen as 23.45IU; clearly below AFFCO min of 50 IU. I contacted them via chat and they confirmed that was the correct and most current value. Then I asked why it was below AAFCO…and then they gave me a new number- 56.24 which is now on their website. Presto Chango!

They report 4524.6kcals/kg 4524.6/4000 X 50 = 56.56IU or 4524.6/3500 X 50 = 64.67IU. Either way their new number falls a bit short too.

It also concerns me that they do “Presto Chango” the nutrient information on their site when I inquire about a concern. That wasn’t the first time THK has immediately changed a nutrient level in their tables after I contacted them.

I like the concept of the food and I think it would be OK to use for intermittent or supplemental feeding but personally I wouldn’t raise a pup on any of their diets.

[mary s]

Wow, well, thank you all for your opinions. First, THK is on Hound Dog Mom’s list as OK for Large breed puppies, and she even mentions in a post, that before she started feeding raw it was what she fed. It sounds like some more current “suggestions” differ from what she was putting out there at the start of this list. Second, regarding research…..I lived my research regarding traditional vet med. I had two littermate brothers with IBD. They weighed 52 and 58 pounds with bloody mucus filled poop, and could have died from the IBD. 3 different vets wanted to scope them, keep them on metranidozole (sorry, I’m sure I spelled that wrong) and steroids indefinitely. The raw diet, supplements, and homeopathic remedies are what saved their lives, and they went to 85 and 75 pounds. and lived to be 12. It might be beneficial for some of you to look up true homeopathics before some of the judgements. However, I am not interested in a debate either. I just came here for some help. Anyway, while disappointed, I am more certain of what I am doing. And thank you to whomever said they were glad he was doing better, because he is…..no blood, perfectly formed poop – without the harsh medications that only suppress the symptoms anyway. I think we may be in the wrong pew, but I wish you all the very best of luck with your dogs 🙂

[anonymous]

“It can also be confusing with all of the info available to us now. This is just my opinion, and I am no expert, but the skepvet is to the extreme opposite of holistic health. It is important to research all information, but some of the critical advice of the skeptvet is harsh and frightening. Again this is just my opinion”.

Holistic, homeopathic……what does that mean? Funny how these homeopathic vets tend to charge more for a consult than traditional vets do.

I trust my traditional vet. I communicate my concerns regarding treatment options if I have concerns and often we are able to come up with a plan we are both comfortable with. I don’t consider Dr Google research. If you have a medical background you may be able to weed through some of the inaccurate information, but most people can’t.
I have found the SkeptVet site to be extremely helpful. Just my opinion.
PS: Nothing is being sold at the above mentioned site, no supplements, no books, no t-shirts, no membership fees.
Just science-based veterinary medicine.

[Chandra R]

Thank you so much for the info…love the ideas!

Yeah we feed her a certain amount of ounces to make up for the dry and add certain supplements and fatty acids. She just wants her to get more protein rather than sugar bc our dog doesn’t do well with the dry–she gets bad yeast rashes.

[Jenn H]

CC, thank you for the kind words.
The dog in the avatar is actually the uncle of the dog I was talking about earlier. Sadly I lost him to HSA of the aorta. That was one of the worst nights of my life. I guess that’s part of the reason I have become so hypersensitive and obsessed with Chevelle’s health. She’s special in her own way and the living connection I still have here.

It pains me when anyone’s pet isn’t well. I understand all too well the fright, uncertainty and helplessness. Any one of us would trade places with them in a second.

I am not crazy about the ingredients of the food she is on now, but for some reason it agrees with her. I don’t know if it’s broken down more or what. It’d be nice to know why and if I can find another that yields the same results with better quality ingredients.
When I contacted Science Diet about the ingredients and asked why they don’t use chelated minerals and source some supplements from China I got a response that had a defensive tone with the excuse that China is largest supplier of a lot of supplements and it’s cost effective.
I’m considering going back to Wysong. She seemed to also do well on that for a good long time. They have always been really polite, helpful and open.

I hope soon we won’t need to have these discussions and our animals can finally have foods that truly maintain and improve their health.

[Stan S]

One of my dogs had a food intolerance and was allergic to chicken, turkey and grains, especially corn and wheat. As I changed his diet plan he incurred to diarrhea. A friend of mine, who is also a vet, suggested that I try a probiotic supplement from Ample Nutrition. That was about a month ago. Since then, I have definitely seen some improvements. I mix the supplement with his food every day and he gladly eats them. Ample Nutrition has an excellent options for dogs.
I can provide a link to their website, you can go through it.
Complete Dog Prebiotic & Probiotic
Hope this helped.

[Spy Car]

Hey Cannoli,

Homes are filled with a myriad of items that can be considered choking hazards for dogs (and children). People starting raw feeding should monitor their dogs to make sure they get the hang of chewing bone (which is about as natural an instinct as canines could have). Feeding larger sized pieces of bone-in parts (like chicken quarters) that can’t be gulped is always smart, as is supervising a dog new to raw feeding.

But dogs are hard wired to chew. The risks of choking on appropriately sized chicken bones are very low and diminish to near zero as dogs get accustomed to it. Intestinal blockages from items like chicken bones are exceedingly rare. I’d worry a lot more about socks.

The calcium (and its bioavailability) from bone is not in question. Concerns about absorption are misplaced. Getting calcium from bone is what canines were shaped by evolution to do. It is superior to artificial supplementation.

The PMR style of feeding with 10% bone keeps the Calcium Phosphorus ratios at the perfect 1.2:1 levels recommended by the leading authorities as optimal. It is spreading a false fear that rotational feedings with calcium supplements are necessary to maintain mineral balances:it simply isn’t so.

The act of chewing is good for dogs. It is relaxing for them. It builds good dental health (encouraging strong gums and clean teeth) and builds strong neck and jaw muscles, in a fashion that feeding calcium powder does not.

If an owner wishes to brush teeth on top of raw feeding, great! I just know how many conventionally fed dogs I know and they nearly all have tartar-stained yellowing (if not rotten teeth) in marked contrast to raw fed dogs whose teeth stay nice and white (with fresh breath).

When we get phobic or fearful about very natural ways of being it has a cost. This is true both with dogs and with children. One can cut off “play” because someone might get hurt, but that comes at a cost. The risks of feeding soft edible bones to dogs is very (very) low, Cutting them out of the diet due to inflated assessments of the risks has a cost.

The advantages to feeding soft edible bone vastly outweigh the risks. Feeding powdered calcium is sub-optimal.

Bill

• This reply was modified 9 years, 2 months ago by Spy Car.
• This reply was modified 9 years, 2 months ago by Spy Car.
• This reply was modified 9 years, 2 months ago by Spy Car.

[Cannoli]

In regards to your second concern:

#2 Admittedly the bone business freaks me out. I’m sure I’ll get over it as I get more comfortable but I’ve been looking at the (chicken) grinds from Hare Today to start with. However, I wasn’t sure about the organ. From what I’ve read you should stick to muscle and bone in the beginning and work in organs preferably after you’ve transitioned through meat sources. Should I order the ground chicken feet and just supplement with some breast or thigh meat? Or maybe someone has another simple suggestion to avoid actual bones for a bit?

You don’t need to just do bones for calcium..You can use natural supplements like Natural seaweed calcium found on Amazon, or use a bone calcium supplement also found on Amazon (just make sure it is Vitamin D free if you plan to feed organs), or you can use egg shells..

[Ann F]

We had the first endoscopy done when my dog was about 15 months old. He’d been still having some IBD symptoms on his Duck and Potato kibble. Poor thing! His intestines, and stomach had deep crater-like sores from the smoldering inflammation. Biopsies of the large and small intestines showed he had Eosinophilic Gastroenteritis, along with another type of IBD. Steroids were the only treatment for the Eosinophilic cells since it was mainly an auto-immune problem. Budesonide did nothing, but we had major improvement with just a very small amount of prednisone, and of course the novel protein diet. This type of IBD can damage the small intestine so much that it is not able to absorb the nutritional components well in the foods the dog eats! With the BalanceIt vitamin, mineral and amino acid supplement the nutritionist could compensate and bump up what he couldn’t absorb from his damaged intestines. Honestly, I’m not selling anything. This just worked so well in our case after years of searching.

[Jenn H]

I have found that a lot of the management & treatment of my girl’s idiopathic IBD is trial & error unfortunately.
For her I have found that she does best on:
*foods that have a SIGNIFICANT amount of meat based protein. Not just a moderate amount. No extra fiber.
*minimal kibble and it’s soaked. I add water to all her food anyway. Even wet.
*1 protein at a time (very slowly switch)
*Pepcid
*exercise. Helps gut with motility.

She did well for 7 months then had a set back. Right now she’s back to i/d cans and boiled chicken. The vet suggested Royal Canin Ultamino, but that’s way beyond my budget.
Per the vet’s suggestion she is on Fortiflora probiotics daily.
Luckily none of the vets who have treated her have put her on a steroid.

Her recent relapse may have been a result of too much fiber and/or eating a kibble that had a moderate amount of meat for its main protein source. It could also have because I was trying different proteins and it was too much change.

The problem with IBD is that it’s a broad diagnosis with many causes. There is no one size fits most treatment.

If possible maybe you should find another vet who can better direct your management. Sounds like your vet isn’t very knowledgeable about this particular condition or nutrition in general.

Be careful with supplements especially fat soluble vitamins. You can over do it. Many vitamins have accompanying minerals. Too much of a vitamin and not enough of the mineral can cause a new set of problems.

My vets have mention endoscopy only as a second to last resort. The absolute last diagnostic would be biopsy. They will only do either of those things if the condition becomes severe.

It’s a very frustrating diagnosis, but it can be managed. The difficulty is finding what works for that particular pet. While finding what works can cause a flare up. Thankfully pets are forgiving.

[Kellye P]

Kristen R,
Thank you so much for taking the time to post your comment. It means the world to me to know that all my struggles with Duffy might be helping other dog parents.
You are so right, there is very limited and conflicting information available to us.
I have had multiple requests to write a book, and I really need to get busy. It wouldn’t be only about Duffy, though. My experiences out here on our little Kentucky farm have taught me a lot.
Stick to your guns with Layla. If nothing else, you know that you are not making decisions based on what company is actively marketing you as a client. Just say no. I am 100% certain that you are right on this subject!!
Don’t be afraid to try the Chi Institute supplements if you have a holistic vet in your area. I found them to be very effective.
I know how hard this is. It’s the worst. Not all protocols work for every dog so don’t feel trapped by what “they” say. Duffy was the exception to every single rule. Opinions on how much insulin to give him varied from 20 units a day to 0 units a day. I was supposed to make sense of all the conflicting data and various theories.
All you can do is educate yourself and go with your own gut feeling. Not easy!!!
Good luck!!
(thanks again)

Kellye

[anonymous]

Did your vet suggest any type of gentle exercise such as aquatic therapy? Otherwise known as swimming in a heated pool, one minute of swimming is equivalent to 4 minutes of running, easy on the joints and might lift her mood a little.
If that’s not an option, see if your vet can prescribe pain meds that come in a liquid form. It might be easier to dispense with a small syringe.

“Supplements are not medication, they are not FDA approved. They are food supplements, not intended to diagnose, treat, or cure”

Per the search engine here: /forums/search/supplements/

[Ryan K]

My 14 year old Old English Sheepdog is pretty much at the end phase of her life and we are all heartbroken over it. She has been fairly sick over the last few weeks with a lack of appetite and her hind legs giving out. Our vet has said that she has nerve degeneration in her spine that is causing her back legs to gradually slide out from under her. With a small dog this is a bit easier to handle with carrying them and getting them around but with a 65 pound dog it’s not that easy. I wondered if there was any supplement that people have given their dogs for aiding the nerves in regenerating or getting better? I read that the mushroom Lion’s Mane is great for humans but haven’t heard how much a dog could tolerate. I would love to keep my dog going cause she’s so vibrant despite her age and these new hindrances. We love her so much and this has been a rough couple weeks with thinking the end is near. Is it a waste or stupid to try new supplements at this point? I brought her in to the vet today thinking it was the end for her after a long night of heavy panting and only eating canned food that she KNOWS has no pills in. She has suddenly become a detective with finding her meds hidden in wrapped treats and spits them out and it’s just crazy! But, he said that although she is old and not feeling well he thinks she looks good and can go a bit longer and he didn’t recommend euthanasia which was a relief. I don’t want to prolong her pain or make her stick around just to avoid that decision.

Any recommendations for senior dog supplements for the nervous system would be great. Also, she is allergic to brewers yeast so I have to avoid that ingredient. Thanks!

[Michael F]

Hi Everyone, Thanks so much for replying to my original post, it helps my boy and I not feel so alone out here. I’m happy to say that for now he is doing much better, knock on wood!!! I’m currently feeding three times a day, some lamb and rice kibble, mixed with cooked chicken and rice and Honest Kitchen Brave, I’m slowly weaning him off the cooked chicken and rice and increasing the Honest Kitchen, and trying to get him down to one protein as I was told that dogs with I.B.D. do best on a single protein. His vitamin B-12 level was low normal and I asked the vet if that could have come from eating only cooked chicken and rice but he didn’t think so, I also asked if there was a Vitamin B-12 Supplement that I could give him that would help build that up but he said no, only Vitamin B shots would work. I evaluated the cooked chicken and rice I had been feeding him and found it obviously to be very low on all vitamins he would need and also found that Boiled Chicken is a very low source of Vitamin B-12, in addition the amount of that I was feeding was way too low on Calories, before having to go on the bland diet he had been eating Tuscan Natural Lamb and Rice which he did well on for 60 pounds worth, and then starting having strange clay like poops, I realized that it was very low in fiber, so now I’m mixing it with the Honest Kitchen Brave, seems to be giving him the fiber he needs. I also did some research with some Holistic Vets and put him on Mercola Pet Probiotics and in addition I found a Vitamin B-12 Supplement for pets from Wonder Laboratories called Pet Factor B-12 with Folic Acid Intrinsic Factor, they both seem to have really helped and his B-12 level has come back up. I didn’t want to overdue the B-12 and I didn’t want to mix it in on his other medicine day so I only give him a single capsule every other day. I read about the Wonder Lab B-12 product on a website for dogs with SIBO which apparently can also be coupled with IBD in some dogs. I will say that the internist wasn’t overly helpful in what to do except to keep trying to find a food he could eat. I really believe that the Mercola Probiotics have been the most beneficial thing in settling down his digestive system and I think having him on a very small amount of kibble and mainly the soft dehydrated food have also helped calm things down, and for him the B-12 capsules have also helped to increase the B-12 level, I know the vets say the shots are the only way, but these tablets seem to work. Please let me know what things you guys are having luck with, Thanks! I forgot to mention, my Internist said that most of dogs he was seeing with IBD were eating dog foods that had a lot of fruit in them and he felt blue berries and other fruits just were not appropriate for dogs, he did think some apple’s would be OK but that was about it as far as fruit went. (Note my dog was never on a food with a bunch of fruit in it, so who knows)

[Spy Car]

As I mentioned in the other thread, both you and your dogs are likely to be a lot better off following a Prey Model diet as opposed to using recipes by Dr Pitcairn that undermine the advantages of a raw diet by including unnecessary (and counterproductive) grains and vegetables and excluding highly positive soft edible bones.

Feeding whole foods in the right ratios will eliminate the need for supplementation, and optimize health. Also easier on you.

Dr Pitcairn’s approach is outmoded and not widely followed or esteemed in the raw feeding community. It is too much like trying to emulate commercial food at home, instead of feeding a natural whole food diet.

As to bones, I don’t personally feed turkey legs, but some people do. I do feed turkey necks. All chicken bones (raw) are good.

Oily-fish is good, but limit to twice a week feedings (not daily) as most of the most-beneficial fish species have a substance that can block Vitamin B12. This substance, called Thaminaise, passes quickly. It is not a big deal unless you feed a lot of fish on a daily basis.

What are health cuts for dogs are cuts that include plenty of fat. Lean cuts, like inexpensive trimmed beef heart and be supplemented with animal fat. Dogs need to transition to fat burning, so better to being with lean meals and work up slowly. And you need organs.

Once growth plateaus you are better feeding once a day (post wind down from the day’s activities). When not fed grains/carbohydrates (as it ideal, and a prime reason to do a raw diet) dogs turn to the superior (for them) fat metabolism. When fat burning dogs have nearly unlimited stores of energy, so don’t need multiple meals throughout the day. Better if durning their active time they run and play on empty stomachs (especially in large breeds that have risks of GVD aka bloat/torsion).

I’d ditch Dr Pitcairn, which is what I’d suspect you’ll hear from virtually all the raw feeders you encounter. It is both a hassle and a diet with highly questionable downsides.

Bill

[anonymously]

http://skeptvet.com/Blog/category/herbs-and-supplements/ http://skeptvet.com/Blog/category/nutrition/
http://skeptvet.com/Blog/?s=probiotics
Nothing being sold at the above sites, no supplements, no t-shirts, no membership fees, no books, nothing.

[anonymously]

Why does the dog need supplements?

I would take the dog to a vet, has he had a senior workup? Labs, exam etc. If not, that is where I would start. Get him diagnosed and then evaluate the treatment options presented.
Supplements are not medication.

[Helen C]

My elderly chihuahua is a picky eater, won’t take pills, and hates the taste of fish. That pretty much eliminates about 99% of all dog dietary supplements. It’s very frustrating. That said, Dinovite he *will* eat! Tiny amounts sprinkled on his food. So far so good. But after just 2 days, he developed diarrhea. I think the probiotics were a little much for him. So I backed it off, will wait a week, and try again at a lower (much lower) dose.

If someone knows a better supplement for a tiny dog (4 pounds) with eating issues, let me know! I’m particularly eager to get him supplemented with B vitamins. The only liquid supplement I’ve found for the three B’s I’m looking for (B12, B6, Folic Acid) was human and had xylitol in it. NO GO!

So … if anyone has suggestions please let me know.

• This reply was modified 9 years, 3 months ago by Helen C.
• This reply was modified 9 years, 3 months ago by Helen C.

[crazy4cats]

Hi Justin-
I agree with Anon. I wouldn’t add any supplements to the kibble unless your dog develops a condition that warrants them. I do think adding fresh or canned foods along with some water is a great idea. Just remember to feed less kibble to make up for the added calories.

I feed my dogs mostly Whole Earth Farms and Nutrisource kibble and add either canned food, tripe, egg, sardines or commercial raw to it. Good luck to you!

[anonymously]

Nothing is being sold at the below sites, no supplements, no books, no t-shirts, no member fees, nothing. Hope this helps.

http://skeptvet.com/Blog/category/herbs-and-supplements/
http://skeptvet.com/Blog/?s=probiotics
http://skeptvet.com/Blog/category/nutrition/

Science -based veterinary medicine.

[Mom2Cavs]

My youngest, 2 yr old Jasper, has IBD diagnosed by ultrasounds, blood tests, xrays. No endoscope as of yet. He presents with protein loss and anemia. He vomits when in a flare. Currently he’s eating Fromm Whitefish and Potato with Firm Up and pre/probiotics and enzymes added. He also gets Standard Process Ferrofood and a herbal supplement called Blood and Energy for his anemia. Other foods he can eat are Sportmix Wholesome Fish and Rice and a food from Drs Foster and Smith called Digestion…..it’s actually vegetarian. Currently he’s not on meds but we have given him flagyl, cerenia, Pepcid or Prilosec in the past. At the beginning (almost 1.5 yrs ago) he was on some prednolisone and Tylan.

[Molly F]

I realized I should have posted this as a new topic, not buried at the end of another topic!
So, sorry if it’s a repeat for some:
Hey all!
Brand new to the site and to raw feeding!
I am probably going to be working off Dr. Pitcairn’s recipes, and I had a question about supplements. I’d prefer whole food ingredients, so I’m probably going to use eggshell for calcium. I’m wondering if eggs themselves could provide enough vitamin A? I’m thinking of doing an egg based meal in the morning and meat and grain in the evening, using whole sardines for the omegas.
I’m going to check with some local meat producers to get the healthiest meat available and will probably add bones at some point. I read that turkey leg bones aren’t really safe (feel free to add your experience) but what about raw chicken legs?
My puppy is a 7 1/2 mo old German Shepherd from fairly beefy stock (dad was 110lbs, mom was 80!!!), so of course I’ve gotten myself all scared about proper calcium ratios. If I give her whole sardines, those bones shouldn’t throw off the ratios too much, right?
I know many people recommend a more “primal” style diet, but I’m on a tight budget these days and the grain component will Really help stretch my dollar!

[Molly F]

Hey all!
Brand new to the site and to raw feeding!
I am probably going to be working off Dr. Pitcairn’s recipes, and I had a question about supplements. I’d prefer whole food ingredients, so I’m probably going to use eggshell for calcium. I’m wondering if eggs themselves could provide enough vitamin A? I’m thinking of doing an egg based meal in the morning and meat and grain in the evening, using whole sardines for the omegas. I’m going to check with some local meat producers to get the healthiest meat available and will probably add bones at some point. I read that turkey leg bones aren’t really safe (feel free to add your experience) but what about raw chicken legs?
My puppy is a 7 1/2 mo old German Shepherd from fairly beefy stock (dad was 110lbs, mom was 80!!!), so of course I’ve gotten myself all scared about proper calcium ratios. If I give her whole sardines, those bones shouldn’t throw off the ratios too much, right?

[anonymously]

Seizures are a neurological disorder. Food won’t help. Supplements won’t help. Medication prescribed by veterinarian that has examined and diagnosed the dog helps and may prevent the brain damage and suffering caused by untreated seizures.

Check this blog for science-based veterinary medicine http://skeptvet.com/Blog/

[anonymously]

Several negative reports per the search engine here /forums/topic/dinovite/

I hope your vet warned you about supplements, most do nothing and some can cause harm.
If your dog has a skin condition I would go to a board-certified veterinary dermatologist, get her diagnosed and then you can evaluate the treatment options presented.
/forums/search/allergies/

[mary s]

I had two Irish Setters with IBD…they were brothers. It showed up at about 5 or 6 months of age. Bloody, mucus filled poops. I went through several vets because I did not want to use steroids. One boy was 58 pounds and the other was 52 pounds at the onset. After I finally put them on a homemade raw diet (the commercial raw diets did not work for them…I think because of the organ meats in them) and supplements, their poops normalized and they went to 82 and 75 pounds. They have recently passed away…one had a fibrosis in his lungs that I think was caused by the IBD. They had good years once I got the IBD under control. I hope you are able to do that with diet. The raw diet and supplements are what saved them. I forgot to add….I also used the homeopathic remedies Nux Vomica and Arsenicum Album.
Best of luck

• This reply was modified 9 years, 3 months ago by mary s.