[Shawna]

Hi Kim S,

Pugmomsandy sent me an email letting me know you might have some questions for me. Thanks Sandy!!

Nitrogen trapping has been very very useful in helping to keep Audrey feeling well. When her breath gets a bit funky or she seems depressed I give her Garden of Life Primal Defense probiotics and Fiber35 Sprinkle Fiber as the probiotic (both are products marketed for humans). I tried other “fermentable” fibers (like barley, apple pectin etc) but Sprinkle Fiber had the best results.

The product I absolutely MUST have for her however is Standard Process Canine Renal Support. She’s been on it for over seven years. I can explain why I feel so strongly about this product if you wish — kinda technical.

Some other things that I rotate in her diet are spirulina, chlorella, food grade activated charcoal, burdock root (another really good fermentable fiber (but she got tired of the strong taste)), milk thistle and more. I mix five or so super foods/supps with an equal amount of enzymes and sprinkle on most of her meals.

Turmeric would be very beneficial for dogs with kidney disease as well but sadly Audrey doesn’t tolerate it well.

Giving ultra clean (like RO) water is important too. Evian water is both clean and a good source of a specific kind of calcium called calcium bicarbonate. Mineral waters higher in calcium (and lower in sodium) have shown some benefits for kidney disease.

I would recommend raw to any that can feed it, gently home cooked if raw is not an option or canned if raw and home cooked are not options.

Absolutely no chemicals like flea/tick or heartworm meds and no vaccines (including rabies).

I’m not sure how much info you’re wanting so sorry if I went overboard. 🙂 There’s tons more I can tell you if interested (like keep oil soluble chlorophyll on hand in case of anemia).

[DogFoodie]

I make bone broth, but it’s such a pain. Last time, I ended up with only about 12 ounces, but it was beautiful gelatinous stuff. I let it set and sliced it. It’s very concentrated so I mix a piece in with some hot water to pour over their food. The dogs love it. I used a big bag of chicken necks that I ordered from MPC. They were frozen together and had some freezer burn. Bone broth has tons of glucosamine and other healthy stuff.

Personally, I wouldn’t use the onion at all. My good friend’s Bichon died a slow, painful death from liver failure in October after eating a small amount of raw onions. Onion is more toxic than garlic. I’d save the onion for your soup. It’s not safe for your dog.

[Kristin C]

Akari-Re: Reel Raw, I bought one of their 10 lb beef mixes last summer and thought it looked quite fatty. I never emailed them to ask about the fat content though. So just a bit of info before you order 50 lbs. I do regularly order the smaller packages of novelty meats and the RMBs that I can’t get at my grocer and only feed those a few times per week.

[Kristin C]

Ok Aimee, take all the classes that you want but I don’t give my dog’s cattle or hog feed so now I know I don’t need to read your posts anymore. They are exhausting, like dealing with my narcissistic ex-sister-in-law. The information you provide and your approach is not supportive, but that’s just my opinion. If I was newer at this raw feeding thing, and completely unsure of what I was doing, you’d definitely scare me away from it.

[Daren S]

Hound Dog mom, thanks for all your info. I am quite confused after reading all this, vet info, breeder info etc. I am trying to choose a great puppy food and, once he’s full grown, a great adult food, preferably cooked frozen ……for my 5 month Bullmastiff puppy.

After all the reading and because I am not a big raw fan (will feed occasionally as a mix in) I think I prefer the cooked frozen diets as they are not as processed as dry kibble. Sounds like I should stick with the Wellness Large Breed dry puppy food (DFA 5 star) until he is full grown. Then maybe switch to a cooked Frozen food like Maverick’s Nature’s Kitchen (DFA 4.5 stars). I will always mix in healthy human foods, to have variety and excitement.

My bully is now 5 months and 80 lbs should grow to about 140 lbs.

Any advice would be GREATLY appreciated. 🙂

[Kristin C]

I feed raw chicken backs and necks just as they come. I can’t imagine trying to grind them myself. If there is a lot of skin on the backs I’ll take some off. I usually feed some boneless muscle meat along with it, or feed a boneless grind in the evening to prevent constipation.

[Cheryl Pepper Millie Sophie]

Dori,
They have never had a grain inclusive diet-always fed Pepper grain free.Millie too
Believe me I am so nuts, I see a little wax I go crazy.
Millie is the puppy and she is on the freeze dried raw & then the commercial raw.
Pepper the 11 1/2 y.o. is on the HK with cooked meats or turkey.
I am to much of a scared cat to put pepper on freeze dried or actual commercial raw due to its high fat content-I just think her system couldn’t handle the high fat-She is the 1 with IBD/IBS gastritis issues.
They have never had an oatmeal based shampoo either.
Schnauzers are known to be highly allergic to a great many things. When I first got Pepper 3 yrs ago ,I would cure 1 thing and then a noter thing would pop up.
Thanks for the info.
The girls are driving me crazy no walks today 20 degrees its just warmed up to 30 pepper hasn’t stopped walking around crying.
Stay warm

[Cait Y]

Ok so I have lurked here for a little over a year, and recently started making my own raw cat food via Lisa A. Pierson, DVM because one of my boys almost died after getting into the Dry food AGAIN and his whole GI system blocked up because he cannot handle the lack of fluids in dry food. He is such a picky eater that I had put off the raw diet dreading that he would turn his nose up at it like he did the other high quality raw/semi cooked food I tried buying him. He LOVED the home made food, he even batted off his BFF to eat his food too!
HoundDogMom, other raw feeders please bear with me I know that the whole shebang I know as of now it is 6 pages long. I am trying to paint the whole picture with the dogs, their special needs and what is causing me confusion with the Raw feeding books I have read. There is so much going on right now in my personal life that I am having a very hard time understanding this and if anyone could help point me in the right direction or even a book or website or from experience I would be so very very grateful.
The biggest reservation I have about feeding Raw to the dogs (who LOVED the scoop of homemade cat food I gave them as a test) are the bones and sadly the limited ingredients I can use for my Special Needs Hound.
I have a 14 yr old Walker hound (Forest) who has like no teeth left and was just diagnosed with cushing’s disease but has some pretty abnormal liver tests because of the damage that was done while he went undiagnosed. His liver is so enlarged it displaces his stomach sideways and upwards which makes EASILY digestible food a must. He cannot have food high in phosphorus, copper or ammonia which means little to no red meat and lots of poultry, eggs and pork. He also has problems with chronic Constipation so I would have to be VERY careful about the amount of bone I add to his diet but I also want enough in there to give him the nutrients he needs. Since he is older he also burns a LOT of calories, He is on Vital Fresh pet Turkey or Chicken and gets 1.5 lbs a day. I don’t know what is causing him to burn so many calories except for old age or maybe his body is trying to repair itself – all he does is lounge in the lawn and do his hound dance for food – people or animal whichever he can mac on at the moment lol
My 3 yr old yellow lab (Nova) is also a high calorie burner but she is super active, we do scent tracking, retrieving, and lots of walking/running on the grass. She will go until she drops which I have never seen before, so now I watch her very closely for signs she is over heated. She eats up to 2 lbs of the above dog food a day but is still losing weight on occasion when her activity jumps up again. She has always had double the amount of Eosinophils in her blood that she should at a “normal” rate. She has been checked for parasites so the best I can come up with is that she might have GI issues going on intermittently – she doesn’t transition food gracefully and really doesn’t tolerate even high quality kibble (after research it’s not such a mystery anymore) which is in part what turned me onto Freshpets Vital.
To top it all off I have a Four month old female lab puppy (Ellie) that is still growing. I have her on 2 lbs of Freshpets vital but I am worried that she is not getting something in her diet as well. She has three white lines running across her nails – each nail on every paw. In my experience when the horses have white lines or even indents it means either they were very very sick or have a mineral/vitamin deficiency of some sort. I know when Ellie came to us she had a severe infection of hook and round worms. Her infection was so severe at 8 weeks old that the vet said she would have died untreated – thank you OCD and taking her to the Vet the same day she was brought home lol. They were resistant to the normal worming meds and for 2 months we battled with getting them under control and gone. If Dogs are like horses that would cause the lines because of how sick she was during this (Great going Lemon law Florida) yet I also worry because I know parasites in small animals or even large can cause a huge system imbalance with nutrients which hinders growth.
OK Limited ingredients – because of Forest I have to stick to Chicken, Turkey, and Eggs as a main protein source due to his liver problems and because Rabbit in completely unviable to me unless I want to raise them myself. I have no local butcher – the closest one is three hours away so Chicken and Turkey liver will have to do for organ meat – sometimes I can get chicken hearts once in a blue moon. For Fats I have to choose VERY easily digestible fats from an animal protein because with Forests Liver problems his biliary system can be overloaded very easily and that would be disastrous. Maybe I can add some duck occasionally to his diet?

Copper Issues:
If ammonia restriction is required, feed less red meats and organs since they produce the most ammonia. You may not want to eliminate them entirely though, as they have important nutrients that help with liver function.
Instead, cut back. Feed more poultry, fish, eggs, and pork. If feeding red meat, even in small quantities, buy the absolute best quality you can afford. Preferably grass fed, antibiotic, and hormone free.

Meats generally low in copper are:
• Beef (muscle meat, not organs)
• Eggs
• Turkey (white meat)
• Chicken (white meat)
• Rabbit
• Fish
Meats generally high in copper are:
• Lamb
• Pork
• Pheasant or Quail
• Duck
• Goose
• Salmon
• Organ Meats
When feeding organs for copper issues, some animal livers contain more copper than others. Beef liver is higher in copper than chicken or pork livers. Regardless, the zinc and b vitamins in liver help to reduce the risk of copper toxicity. Though if your dog has an issue with copper, opt for chicken or pork liver. (http://primalpooch.com/raw-feeding-guidelines-dogs-liver-disease/)

I have read Unlocking the Canine Ancestral Diet and Dr. Pitcairn’s New Complete Guide to Health of Dogs and Cats. I have some major issues with either of the books, UtCaD is so absolute – if you feed this protein then you need this oil. First of all Canola Oil? Corn Oil? Soybean Oil? Walnut oil? Flax and hemp seed oil? I own horses and I would NEVER give them Corn oil with the GMO crap going around I don’t trust Corn or Canola at all. If I am not comfortable feeding to my strict Herbivores I am definitely not OK feeding it to the other animals. By the way the 2,000 lbs animals have had major GI upset from Canola, Corn, Soybean and Flax seed oil. I’ve given it to them in small amounts – 3 tablespoons a day and I have seen a massive systemic effect that made me take them off of it immediately. It was supposed to give them the right ratio of Omega’s 3 and 6 plus help my older guys move and keep weight on since it was winter. The recommended Ratio of 6 to 3 fats are 10:1 to 5:1 for dogs – I have read that small fish or Krill are the best to supplement dogs with because of the low contamination rate and it should not carry Salmon Sickness. Soybean oil is also something I would never give my dogs or humans or anything because of the way it can mimic hormones and interrupt the function of the Thyroid. Also Kelp is recommended a lot, but there are so many negatives that came out during the feeding kelp to horse’s fad that I will not touch the stuff. If it can affect the horses with the amount of iodine to the point horses became toxic I don’t trust the manufactures. It was not that kelp was being fed in large amounts there was absolutely no regulation on what type they harvested or what it contained. Missing link for dogs is a product I am familiar with and they do make it for dogs with trace minerals but it is flax based. Won’t this completely mess up the balancing? Does anyone here feed this instead of kelp?
The Missing Link Ultimate Skin & Coat:
Active Ingredients (per tbsp)
Flaxseed Dried Kelp
Glucosamine Hydrochloride (Vegetarian) Zinc Monomethionine
Freeze Dried Beef Liver Lecithin
Blackstrap Molasses Chromium Yeast
Rice Bran Selenium Yeast
Primary Dried Yeast Pyridoxine Hydrochloride (Vitamin B6)
Sunflower Seed Niacin (Vitamin B3)
Dehydrated Alfalfa Garlic Powder
Dried Carrot Yucca Schidigera Extract
Shark Cartilage Powder* Riboflavin (Vitamin B2)
Freeze Dried Fish Protein Powder Thiamine Hydrochloride (Vitamin B1)
Freeze Dried Oyster Powder Folic Acid
Barley Grass Leaves Powder Cobalamin (Vitamin B12)
Guaranteed Analysis Amount
Crude Protein (not less than) 18%
Crude Fat (not less than) 28%
Crude Fiber (not more than) 15%
Moisture (not more than) 10%
Linoleic Acid (Omega 6) 450 mg
**Linolenic Acid (Omega 3) 1000 mg
**Not recognized as an essential nutrient by the AAFCO Cat/Dog food nutrient profiles.

Also if everything is so precise that does not leave room for error such as what if the chickens were raised on Florida soil which is heavy in limestone and deficient in other areas – rather than let’s say somewhere in the bread bowl what about if they were fed a corn based feed and another batch was fed free range? If the meat analysis is different it throws everything off and we all know that meat from south Fl is very different than meat from MI or IN – same principle goes with growing vegetables even organic. How much of a God Factor is there for the abundance of some micronutrients and lack of others? UTCAD also has an abundance of some nutrients way over the NRC guidelines – are dogs different in the fact that they can rid themselves of excess things very easily? I know in humans and horses Vit E and Selenium can be deadly because it builds up in fat and the body doesn’t flush it out like the water-soluble vitamins?
Dr. Pitcairn’s New Complete Guide to Health has a lot of oat meal, rice, beans?! Half and Half milk, whole milk, whole wheat bread corn? That sounds not so great for dogs and especially not for cats like it says it can be. What about kidney beans? With feeding my dogs I have learned they do OK on rice occasionally when they have an upset GI but if they are on a diet with rice too long they get backed up. Also the beans – the dogs seem to have issues with digesting them like people sometimes do – why are there so many carbohydrates? Why cannot I do sprouted microgreens or carrots or even baked potatoes because I know the dogs tolerate those vegetables very well. Also Brewer’s Yeast? Isn’t yeast as a whole bad? It’s in everything and I know Nova already is prone to yeast infections in her ears and when she gets a UTI – Also can Brewer’s yeast cause or attribute to bloat? Milk – isn’t milk products bad if they are in large amounts such as 2 cups milk plus 2 cups rolled oats and 2 eggs and calcium powder? Everything to me seems so skewed.
Also RMB are out of the question – Forest cannot eat them and Nova and Ellie are gulpers – they came from a large litter and it would be just my luck to end up in emergency surgery with one of them. I have a grinder to which I can grind the bone up with the meat and I know the purpose of the bone was for dental health but if I make Meat Jerky and other goodies can I replicate that without worrying about emergency surgery or broken teeth?
Since I own a grinder already for cat food why cannot I grind bones to supplement their food with? So far in my research the basic recipe and consensus I have come across is as follows:
16% Organ meat
10% – 25% Bone
The rest of the food would be muscle meat and muscle meat
Meat is very high in phos and the bone is high in Cal which means the Cal to Phos ratio should be 1.2 to 1.5:1 although 1:1 to 2.5:1 is ok as well. I just need to make sure the dogs consume more Cal than Phos but the question is do I need to add bone meal or can I grind my own bones to supplement?
Here is what the Article analysis the bone content to be in prey animals:
Bone Content In Raw Foods
When sourcing bones for your dog’s diet, it’s a good idea to know the approximate amount of bone in commonly sourced foods. Here is a quick guide to help you keep your dog’s bone content in the right range; between 10% and 25%.
Chicken Whole chicken (not including the head and feet): 25% bone/Leg quarter: 30%/Split breast: 20%/Thigh: 15%/Drumstick: 30%/Wing: 45%/Neck: 36%/Back: 45%/Turkey/Whole turkey: 21%/Thigh: 21%/Drumstick: 20%/Wing: 37%/Neck: 42%/Back: 41%
Pork Feet: 30%/Tails: 30%/Ribs: 30%
Beef Ribs: 52%
Rabbit Whole rabbit (fur and all): 10% Whole (dressed): 25-30%

From this can I remove the proper amount of bones or add more bones in to balance or would you suggest a bone meal powder? Also I have yet to factor in the percentage of vegetable/fruit/microgreens in the recipe – I am just so lost so if HoundDogMom could help or someone else could chime in I would be so grateful. I am trying very hard to learn as much as I can but between the animals and two sick family members and special needs animals by the time I have a moment to sit down I am out like a light for the night or my brain is so frazzled everything looks like it was written in French. Am I over thinking this? I just don’t want to screw Ellie up – she has already had such a bad start with the worm infection – and Forest needs nutrients to rebuild his liver correctly and I wanted to see if this change in diet would help Nova’s Eosinophils come to a normal level. Also has anyone ever seen white lines on every toenail that grows parallel with the skin? Any help would be so appreciated there is just not a lot of room for error with Forest right now with his liver Alt levels 4 times what they are supposed to be. They cannot stay on the Freshpet much longer because to feed the dogs its 19 dollars a day and that’s not a very good long term solution.
Thanks so much everyone~!~ I Hope everyone had a great New Year and wonderful Holiday
`RedMare

[Nancy B]

Raw backs and necks are new to me. What do you use for grinding these? Do you remove the skin?

[Dori]

Hi Cheryl. I will definitely report back once I’ve received and tried the KBPF. How long have your dogs been on grain free and now on freeze dried raw foods. All three of my dogs suffered from wax, yucky ears. Never smelled or anything like that but they were yeasty brownish and gunky. Sometimes they would shake their heads but mostly they were always scratching their ears. None of them had ear infections because I had them all checked out. I had to clean all of their ears every day to try to keep up with it. Once I removed all grains, soy, corn, rice and all poultry (fowl) from their diets their ears cleared up within a matter of weeks on their own. Now that they are on raw foods none of those issues have ever returned. Another thing I did was switch shampoos. I had always been told that if you had a talk with allergies you should use an oat meal shampoo. Well, that is really very wrong. Oatmeal may be soothing to humans but if you are allergic to grains, oatmeal being one of them, you cannot bath your dogs with oatmeal shampoos. I didn’t know any better at the time. Poor Katie. I was constantly bathing her with oatmeal based shampoos because of all of her allergies. Along with her food intolerances and sensitivities she also has environmental allergies. I couldn’t figure out why nothing was working until a light bulb went on over my head and I thought….DUH????? So I switched and she’s all good. It’s been a while since I had to use any particular ear cleaner now I just make sure to put cotton balls in their ears for bathing and then dry them out after bathing. The one ear cleaner called Clean Ear by 21st Century for Pet Health cleans & dissolves was build up. That one worked pretty well actually. You just squirt a little in their ears, massage it in, then they’ll shake their heads and then I would dry out their ears. You have to do it on a regular basis until their new diets kick in and it stops happening. I haven’t had to use it in years but I’m sure it must still be around. There are other over the counter products like that also of course that would work the same way.

[theBCnut]

If there is any rawness in the ears, they can. Vinegar and water won’t dissolve wax, which is sort of waterproof, but they will help to clean the ear. Peroxide will bubble away at the wax and help to loosen it, but can be harse on the sensitive tissue and if the dog shakes its head and peroxide gets in the eye, it burns like crazy!!!! I know from first hand experience. I just get Zymox ear cleaner, not the one with steroids.

[Cheryl Pepper Millie Sophie]

Dori,
Please let me know how the girls do on KBPF-I ALMOST placed an order for the trial sizes, but my head is spinning from what I already have in the bullpen for Millie.
The next free-dried i have for her is the Oracle grain-free, still waiting for the Primal Raw.
I,too was loved by the shelter, all the foods I tried for pepper & poor thing couldn’t tolerate any.
Thanks for the heads up with the fruits and veggies -I only feed 1 type of treat its called Cocotherapy-freeze dried fruits or veggies they are very costly & the bags are very empty for $9.95 a bag, I don’t use any commercial bones either.
When I first got Pepper & didn’t know anything I bought her Greenies for her dental issues-my angel got so sick on them, I swore I would never again buy anything like that!!
I have been in Louisiana 34 yrs-all my adult life, but they still call me a yankee and I am proud of that,never lost my accent as I am told!! I go home & they ask me where I am from!!! Go figure.
Do you have any suggestions on what I can use to clean Millie’s ear she has some wax & I think it bothers her-she shakes her head sometimes,no smell, I thought vinegar or hydrogen peroxide , but this healthy dog Handbook says both are no-no’s=the book says o use a commercial product, I always try to stat away from them, but if you have a particular product that works, I would appreciate the info.
Fondly,
Cheryl

[Kristin C]

Hi Dori – Thank you. One of my dog’s is sensitive so think I am going to pass on the Steve’s for now. I have some Primal beef coming to try. I’ll be interested to know how Better In The Raw goes for you. It has real food in it so it interests me.

It’s 0 degrees here in CT! The dog’s get a little nutso on these days when I’d rather not be outside. My beagle/Aussie has gone from slug to supercharged in the last year since changing her diet so it can be a challenge with the weather.

[Dori]

I just placed an order for both the trial sizes of KBPF Better in the Raw with liver and U-Stew for dogs. Thought I’d give it a try as I’d never heard of it before. When it arrives and I use it I’ll post the outcome. Has anyone else actually used this yet? If so, how’d it go? Read their site thoroughly. Seems easy enough to do and try.

[Dori]

Hi Cheryl. I’ve been in Atlanta for 13 years now and still consider NYC home. I sometimes feel like I went on vacation and couldn’t find my way back home. lol We left the North East because we were so sick and tired of the cold weather. Well, I just took a look at the thermometer on my patio while I was out with my three girls and it is 17 degrees. I don’t know kind of global warming this is suppose to be but it’s had the opposite effect in Atlanta.

On cooking the veggies. If I’ve cooked veggies for our dinner then I’ll give them some cooked. Fruits I give raw. Most of the time I give the girls the fruits and veggies raw because I don’t give them for their nutritional value I give them to the girls as treats. I don’t feed any commercial treats whatsoever. Too many recalls with too many treats. I don’t give bones as I said, I certainly would never give them raw hide stuff, most commercial treats include some sort of grain or gluten and I feed grain free. So I give fruits and veggies and don’t have any concern whether they come out the same way that they went in. They’re happy chomping on what they think are treats and I feel it’s better than taking a chance on store bought treats. As to fruits and veggies, it’s also what happens to be in the fridge or on the counter. They love little bits of bananas so if I’m eating a banana I share it with them. Mostly me, little for them.

As to THK and more pooping, my three dogs did initially poop more often at the beginning and then eventually it tapered off and now they only go twice a day regardless of what they’ve been fed. Initially on THK their poops were pretty big too compared to their raw foods but then that went back to normal size also. My girls love THK and also lick their bowls clean to the point that they shine. Glad your girls like it too. It always makes me happy to feed them foods that not only do they love, but do so well on.

Kristin C. I tried Steve’s Real Food for Dogs once and I didn’t care for it. I didn’t like the consistency. I also didn’t care much for what was coming out of them either and they very rarely if ever have loose stools so that was another issue. It’s been a long time since I fed it and eventually gave the rest of the food away. I used to be big on trying different brands and seeing how the girls did. I now have a pretty big variety that they eat with no issues at all but as we went through the trial and error period my local shelter adored me. I was over there all the time dropping food off. One of my girls has a lot of food sensitivities, intolerances and a couple of out and out allergies so the process took me quite a while. That’s actually what led me to feed commercial raw. As long as I always remember to check all ingredients (companies do from time to time decide to make some formula change), Katie no longer has any food issues.

[Kristin C]

Jakes Mom – I’d like to hear back if you like KBPF. I’m thinking about ordering some of Better In The Raw. At least it has some real food ingredients in it.

Cheryl-I ordered some a Primal too today! Going to try the Sardine grind instead of buying so many sardine cans.

Dori-Have you tried Steve’s Real Food for Dogs? The prices look somewhat reasonable.

[jakes mom]

yeah, we got a little off topic didn’t we? I asked about THK mixes because they were the only ones I’d heard of other than the SSLL. I’m new to the raw food thing. Aimee doesn’t like THK or the KBPF. I don’t know her background so I can’t say that her opinion impacts my decision either way. I bought a couple of trial packs for the cats. If they like it, great, if not, live and learn I guess. Package says it meets AAFCO guidelines. They won’t be eating it exclusively so I’m not worried about any nutritional imbalance, really.
Cheryl, my Jake loves bones. I was nervous, too, at first, but heard so much about the benefits I decided to try. So far he’s had chicken backs, turkey necks, and “scrap bones” sold for soup. I believe they were beef vertebrae by the look of them I have some pork bones in the freezer, too. Pork needs to be frozen for a few weeks to kill any parasites. I always supervise him when he has a bone to be on the safe side but have had no problems. My understanding is that raw bones are safe, it’s the cooked ones that splinter and cause trouble.

[Cheryl Pepper Millie Sophie]

Dori,
Thank thank you for your input.
My girls esp miss Millie are gulpers-I turn around and her food is gone!!
When I first got her it took her 25 min to eat,now seconds, I had to get her a slow feed bowl.
I thank you for your input on the Turkey necks-I just don’t feel comfortable giving them to her, I am not real interested in RMB either.
If I went raw, it would be commercial raw also, Millie being a schnauzer I have to watch her fats.
She adores the orijen freeze dried-howls while I am making it-jumping dancing!!!
Do you cook the fruits and veggies or do you give your girls raw with that also.
Pepper (until her bad gastric episode) always got raw carrots for a snack, bu tI noticed they came out the same way they went in, so i cook them-i read that since they have a short digestive tract, its hard for them to process the raw veggies.
I did order some Primal raw, so i am anxious to see how millie does.
It is hard to find real commercial raw here,so ordering it is my only option & I don’t know what other companies will ship to me in Louisiana without it costing a fortune.
Thanks again Dori

[Dori]

Hi Cheryl. As far as poultry bones, they are risky and NOT to be fed if they are cooked. Raw they say is just fine. I don’t give my three toy dogs any bones to eat. Their too small ( 5, 6 & 7 lbs.) and I’m too afraid of them choking on something. Of course, if you choose to do so, please be sure that you stay with your dogs the entire time they are chomping down the bones so you know they are safe. You have to also know your dogs. Are they gulpers and likely to try to swallow large pieces or are they slow chewers with all foods. That’s an important thing to know. Mine are all gulpers. I swear I don’t think they chew anything other than raw carrots that I give them as treats. Most everything else they are like vacuum cleaners. As Bobby dog said don’t give weight bearing bones. You can also feed ribs…beef, pork, whatever.

I feed my girls commercial raw foods for most of their two meals a day. I add different other ingredients to their meals and they get organic fruits and veggies. I hardly ever cook for my husband and myself so I can’t see myself whipping up meals for my dogs. I’m a believer that raw food is best for my dogs. I have seen a world of difference in these three since I switched to raw three years ago. I don’t feed the prey model because I couldn’t possibly hand over a whole animal or whatever and watch them eat it. I haven’t got the stomach for it I guess. No doubt, they’d be fine with it maybe but I wouldn’t be. I’m quite OCD about my three little girls (some would say neurotic…I’m proud of that) health be it physical or nutritionally. So I hear your concerns. I should also mention that I rotate their foods between different brands and within those brands. One of my girls has a lot of food sensitivities so no fowl of any sort. I feed them twice a day and I also rotate with each meal. I’ve been doing this with them for a long time so they have no issues eating different foods for different meals. It did take about 3 or 4 months I think before I was able to do that though. I hope anything I’ve said has helped and I think Bobby dog has given you some great advice as she always does.

• This reply was modified 11 years, 3 months ago by Dori.

[Bobby dog]

Cheryl:
I hear you about being cautious! I have tried transitioning my dog to a few raw meals per week, but he just doesn’t care for it. Commercial raw he will eat, not prey model. That is why I am interested in home cooked.

I also tried to introduce RMB’s to him and he just buries them in the yard. Several posters feed chic and turkey necks. It just depends on your comfort level and your dog. Weight bearing bones are not recommended because of their density, your dog could crack a tooth. There is allot of info about RMB’s & raw diets in the forums. Here is a recent RMB thread, check it out and ask away. I unfortunately will not be much help with your RMB questions!
/forums/topic/rmbs-and-recreational-bones/

[Cheryl Pepper Millie Sophie]

Bobby,
I finally found the post i wanted to reply to,this new format drives me crazy,if I am away from the computer, I forget who I need to reply to -sorry.
You asked if I want to feed raw or cooked, honestly, I don’t know.
I guess I could give Miilie a few raw meals per month, in the hot summer here I don’t think so. The heat here is oppressive.
I have been lightly boiling all meats I give to pepper and now Millie.
I still await the Primal raw from the co.
I saw something on u-tube and they were feeding turkey necks-I thought all poultry bones were risky to feed. Do you think a turkey neck is safe for a little schnauzer to chomp on??
Ideally, I guess if Millie could take it vary the kinds of meals within a week, if not vary weekly,I am very new to this & very OCD (ask Shawna) when the welfare of the fur-kids are concerned.
I don’t trust myself.

[Dori]

Kristin C., Aquariangt and Cheryl H. I wholeheartedly agree with all three of you.

Aimee. I typically don’t get into any discussions with you. I know your stance on foods for your dogs which are at polar opposites of what I feed. That’s fine. Whatever works for ones dogs is what they should be fed. But…I would love some day to know what your real issue is with The Honest Kitchen. You bash them all the time even when no one is discussing The Honest Kitchen. The COMPLETE MEALS are Complete and Balanced. Their mixes are not. The consumer needs to add the protein to balance it. It would be against the law of their state for them to say otherwise. If you feel that way, I wonder if you’ve attempted to call the state that THK is made and report them? Do you have proof that The Honest Kitchen gives kick backs to veterinarians and that they are the ONLY company that does that. One would be very naive (sp?) to believe that vets carry certain foods in their practices and not be rewarded in return for selling those foods. They are not taking up space with shelves of food for nothing. It is my understanding that they get a certain percentage of the cost of the food. Personally, I’ve never seen The Honest Kitchen at a vets practice. If I did, I would seriously consider switching vets to that clinic. I mean no offense to you aimee, I guess I’ve finally read a post of yours that I actually wanted to know the answer.

I have spoken to customer service people at THK many many times through the years as their complete and balanced meals are in rotation for my three dogs. They have always been courteous, willing to talk with me and answer all the questions I have asked and have even helped me find a holistic/homeopathic nutritionist in my area. No, the nutritionist does not recommend any commercial foods, only raw and home cooked so there was nothing in it for The Honest Kitchen’s customer service people or the company. I have never once called them and gotten an answering machine. Always a polite helpful person transferring me to whatever department I needed to speak to.

[debra r]

I have a 4 year old Miniature poodle who has never had any issues with allegries. But the past 6-8 months hes had outs of skin rashes and now he constantly naws at his groin area to the point of making it raw. At first i thought it was seasonal outdoor allergies, but now it’s winter and he is still so itchy and rashy. The vet gave me a steroid which does help, but i only give it to him when he gets really bad because i don’t like giving him steroids. I want to figure out the root cause. I have been adding omega 3 capsules to his food and Use Canine Life home made muffins (i make them with the mix and my own ingredients) which is his wet food once a day. I have had him on Wellness Complete Health for years and never had any issues with it, but i think this may be the cause. I want to change his dry food but am having a hard time deciding which brand to change it to. The vet is pushing the Ultra Low Allergen Hills Z/D prescription diet, but i feel its lacking nutrients and is super expensive. Any ideas or brands someone could recommend. I just want my pup to stop itching and want to give him a nutrient dense diet… Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated!

[Dori]

Kristin C. Actually Just Food For Dogs does ship their frozen foods but you are correct in that their foods are not raw, they are cooked and frozen. They deliver to your door if you live locally, otherwise they ship frozen via Fed Ex.

[aimee]

Hi Lisa,

So sorry to hear about your lab: ( Increased BUN from diet is tied into protein but it sounds like your dog isn’t eating a lot of protein. Rawhide is a source of protein, but he is off those now. Any other high protein chews you give him consistently? Rawhide contributes calories too so hope the weight loss is from eliminating those from the diet vs something else.

Another source of protein that your vet probably already considered is from bleeding into the gut. This may or may not show up on a regular blood count. A rectic count in addition to the normal blood counts could be done to make sure that constant regeneration isn’t going on.

If this still could be kidney problems from a diet perspective controlled phosphorus levels are recommended in kidney disease. Phosphorus parallels protein which is likely where the rec to avoid high protein comes from.

Sounds like more diagnostics will be needed to sort this out.

[aimee]

Hi Kristin,

My dogs primarily eat commercial pet food along with some home cooked. The home cooked I add is primarily vegetables… all the colors of the rainbow, along with some lean meat. Primarily the home cooked is from my dinners but occasionally I’ll steam and puree large batches of veggies and cook meats specifically for them and freeze it to use as needed.

In regards to vets recommending consults if you are home cooking, I think all vets have a duty to recommend that the diet be evaluated to ensure the needs are being met. In fact I’d think they open themselves up to malpractice if they don’t make that recommendation. Similarly, if raw feeding, they have a duty to inform of the parasite and infectious disease risk. This is needed not only for the health of the patient but also extends to public health. Vets won’t get in trouble with AVMA, that has nothing to do with it, but they can lose their license and a huge chunk of change if they are sued if a person in the home comes down with illness traced back to the dog’s raw diet and it isn’t documented in the record that they advised against it. In fact just had a conversation about this at the vet. The CDC was involved, there was an outbreak of Salmonella in the household, 3 children were ill. Same strain in the raw food as in the dog’s poop as in the children. Thankful he had it documented in the record that he discussed risk with owners and advised against raw food.

[Bobby dog]

Cheryl,
Yes, I checked out Balance It a while ago and the autobalancer is convenient because it takes the guessing out of creating a balanced meal. One of these days I will make time to research this more. Are you looking to cook or feed raw?

Remember there are more Vet schools that offer nutritional consultations I just thought those three had a good explanation of what they offer on their sites. At least you have some more options for your pup. And there is the link to find a Vet Nutritionist in my previous post too. You’re welcome!

[Lisa R]

My 7 year old chocolate lab has had a rising BUN count in his blood. His creatinine level is increasing very slightly, not proportionally in the manner the vet would expect if if we’re kidney disease. Additionally, his BUN continued to go up on RX kidney food and meds. The vet is baffled and doesn’t understand what the issue is.

I think it’s related to his diet in some way. He has always been, as my vet called him, a “fat magnet” since we rescued him 3 years ago. He gained a ton of weight very quickly when he first came to us, despite never being fed table food, etc, and continued to gain on small servings of RX diet food (from not quite 80 lbs to over 100). Currently he is on a very low quantity of weight mgmt IAMS, supplemented with green beans to fill him up. He was losing very little, very slowly and finally showed a big decrease in weight when we eliminated rawhide from his diet (unless it’s kidney disease and it just happens to coincide with the elimination of rawhide).

I think there is some dietary issue and he needs a different kind of food or supplement….maybe there is some intolerance for food we are feeding him and he needs grain free or salmon or freeze dried or something…but I don’t know what to try. The vet is advising against anything high protein in case he does have kidney problems but I’ve reqd every that is not necessarily a factor in kidney isses for dogs. But she doesn’t know what we should try.

Any thoughts?

[Naturella]

Fade, hi.

I will second Marie on her comments:

1. Rotation is great, just make sure you do it over a few days. You can also add some canned/dehydrated/freeze-dried/air-dried/raw as toppers every once in a while, as well as maybe some coconut oil or fish oil (for Omega 3s), raw or lightly cooked eggs, and canned sardines, salmon, or jack mackerel (not tuna). Those are really good for dogs. For my 15lb terrier mix I feed one raw egg/week, 1/2 small can of sardines, and coconut oil every other day. I also use dehydrated/air-dried/freeze-dried as toppers on every dinner meal. I used to feed yoghurt too, but Bruno decided he’s had enough of it apparently, lol. But if your dog likes it, it is good stuff too. Kefir also.
2. Many dogs self-regulate, and many don’t. As Marie said, the bag directions are just guidelines, and many dogs require less than the recommended amounts. You should gage by body condition: https://dogchow.com/articles/1871/body-condition and adjust food amounts accordingly. My dog is at the caloric intake of 3/4 cups of food total, 1/2 cup dry and 1/4 cup (or so, calorie-wise) additives (“toppers”). This is within the recommended amounts, but when we used to exercise a lot, twice a day in the hot summer Georgia days, he would eat 3/4 cup of dry with similar amounts of additives. He was lean and mean even though he ate more.
3. As I have a small dog, I can’t tell you about good brands for large dogs, but this thread can: /forums/topic/large-and-giant-breed-puppy-nutrition/ Page 15 should have a link to a google doc with all brands written out, how they score, etc. It is an overall great resource for large breed owners.

Good luck, seems like Nala is in good hands! 🙂

[theBCnut]

Oh brother!! High protein does not cause hip dysplasia, no matter what bogus ideas you have come up with to try and explain your point of view. Try doing a little actual research on the current studies into the causes of hip dysplasia. Try starting with Dr Larsen, but don’t stop there.

Then go to your own dentist and ask what causes plaque build up on teeth. He should tell you that it is caused by starch in the diet. If he says anything else, get a new dentist. Kibble is 30% or MORE starch. Kibble fed dogs have to get their teeth cleaned just as much as other dogs and more than raw fed dogs, which are eating a HIGH protein diet.

No dogs don’t have to have high protein diets, but they don’t have to have starch at all. Replacing so much of what constitutes a natural diet for a dog with starchy kibble should not make sense to anyone. It’s like saying people should live off cereal bars and nothing else.

[theBCnut]

Basically, AVMA has taken a stance against raw, which means any AVMA vet is supposed to try and talk you out of feeding raw, and any vet that is pro raw feeding can get in trouble with AVMA.

[Kristin C]

To Anyone – does your vet suggest a consult when you tell them you feed homemade, raw or cooked? Mine did, but she suggested one who doesn’t advocate raw, which is what I feed. Another topic I guess.

[Kristin C]

Hey Cheryl – go for it! I make my dog’s food, but as of a few months ago I have added the SSLL supplement because I am paranoid.

I looked up the Just for Dogs website, and it’s probably not something I would personally use. It appears they cook their food, I do raw (with 1-2 x per week kibble + FD). Their “balanced” supplement is for dogs with GI problems under vet care. They also do not ship frozen.

Don’t get too frustrated. Most people on the DFA forums have been through all the questions and doubts too. Just find what works best for you and your dogs. And consider it a process that you can re-evaluate and make better.

[InkedMarie]

I use ground raw. Boone gets about 3.5 oz bony and 1 oz boneless. The bony has meat, bone, tripe & organs. I do have some that has no tripe so I add that. He gets eggs and salmon oil a few times a week. He gets rib bones to gnaw on and I skip the boneless at that meal. Thats it.

Edit: he does get a joint supplement, apple cider vinegar & Bug Off Garlic as well.

• This reply was modified 11 years, 3 months ago by InkedMarie.

[InkedMarie]

1) changing food is good! Some people feed a variety of dry, canned, raw , dehydrated and freeze dried. Some change their kibble with every bag, some go a few bags.
2) feeding guidelines are just a guide and IMO, mine eat less.
3) brands I like are Farmina, Dr Tim’s, Annamaet, Brothers Complete

[Kristin C]

Hi-so I am constantly paranoid that my dogs are not getting what they need nutritionally and was wondering if anyone wants to share raw grain free recipes of their own. Today I made chicken meals with:

80% chicken: 30% breasts, 30 thighs, 15 hearts & gizzards, 5 liver
15% pumpkin
5% puréed spinach and green beans
See Spot Live Longer Dinner Mix
Omega 3 oil and vit E

The beef recipes I struggle with percentages as I use more organs such as kidney, lung, thymus. I keep those percentages pretty small 1-2% each.

Much of the information I read is on the prey model 80/10/10 so it gets confusing. I am looking for experienced raw feeders to share here if possible. Thanks!

[Kristin C]

So I thawed RR rabbit chunks this weekend and the bag leaked but as Michael says it was probably from the bones. The grinds do not leak. I do thaw them in a bowl in the frig regardless. I would like to add that if you are concerned with the fat content then don’t feed it as your sole source. I open one 2 lb bag of grinds per week for my dogs. That’s only 3 meals each of a novelty protein. I probably would never feed them raw from one company all the time anyway just to be safe.

[Michael H]

I’ve had no problems with my orders from RR thus far. As for holes being in bags, frozen chunked meats make for sharp edges, and even if they are frozen from raw within the bag, it will still expand and can cause perforation. Treat it like any raw meat being defrosted-put in a ziploc bag and/or on a container/plate to catch any drippings. Same for grocery store meats-I change bags even for water defrosting, as you don’t know who or how many people have handled the bags in transit to your home.

I’ve not ordered bulk meats, just the variety ultimate combos (one with RMB’s, one with ground in as my older dog is a gulper and keeps trying to choke on any rmb he gets), and all have been fine in the meat to fat/skin ratio.

[Jennifer H]

Hey, a fellow Floridian!!!! 😀

I’ve been looking at the Raw Feeding Miami too, can’t wait till they get an actual site up and running. They have some great stuff there.

I have difficulty finding good variety too, but recently one of the Winn Dixie’s near me had a crap ton of sliced beef heart on sale, so I stocked up on that. They also had pork tails & beef livers on sale, too.

I have a small dog too, isn’t it great?? lol. I’m trying to feed him PMR with RMBs and organs and chunks, but it is seriously hard trying to get a good variety/balance with 4oz of food.

[Cheryl Pepper Millie Sophie]

Kristin,
Sorry I forgot to answer your question.
I can’t get real commercial raw where I live-so checking out various sites wag.com was the only site that even carried the “real frozen raw” not the freeze dried variety’s.
It did state it comes directly form the manufacturer at checkout.
I don’t think this is something I will do when it gets warmer here-in Louisiana it would be too risky to have raw shipped & to get it overbite would be too cost prohibitive.

[Kristin C]

Cheryl – KBPF I believe stands for Know Better Pet Food. I’ve looked at their Better In The Raw mix and may consider trying a sample. I’ve heard about Just for Dogs in the past. They are a storefront that’s based out of CA. They have products you can order but I’d have to look closer at the ingredients. At first glance, they may not work for me since I don’t feed rice, white or sweet potatoes.

[Akari_32]

Guys guys guys guys guys!!!! We’re getting an Aldi’s!!!!!!!! Yay! So excited 😀 I hope their meat is cheap and they have a good variety. I know they are a good store to buy from.

Also, I’ve been price shopping online and found Raw Feeding Miami. They have pretty good prices! I’m thinking I’ll email them and see about their planning/budgeting thing they have. It’s nice they do that 🙂

[DogFoodie]

Hi David,

You’re looking at an old list. I believe this is the most current list. It’s on page 36. It includes grain inclusive, grain free and raw. I agree with the others about Fromm. It’s a solid manufacturer.

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0BwApI_dhlbnFTXhUdi1KazFzSUk/preview

[theBCnut]

Grain free is the old list. The new list has grain inclusive, grain free, and raw on it.

[Holly C]

I own an adult small breed and recently adopted a large/giant breed puppy. What is the best food to buy them. I would love to do raw but can not afford it nor do I have the time to prepare it. I would like to be able to buy them a dry kibble with the occasional wet food, but having a lot of issues finding an appropriate brand. There is a local feed service store which supplies Diamond Naturals grain-free, Loyall, Holistic Blend(currently switching to this brand from Loyall), Summit, and Nutram along with very crappy brands like pedigree and purina. I would love to feed them a 4 star minimum. The small breed is a 16 pound Pomeranian/Shih-Tzu/Poodle male, neutered and the large/giant breed is a 12 Week Shepherd/Mastiff. Any advice would be appreciated. Thank you in advance.

[Elizabeth A]

I’ve been ordering strictly pastured, organic meat and poultry deliverd to my home through http://www.uswellnessmeats.com for my family’s consumption. They also sell “pet burgers” which is mixed raw organ meats/ muscle meat that comes from solely pastured, organic animals. It is raw, delivered frozen in 1 lb bags, costing about $5 a pound. I give it to my older dachshund as a treat to supplement his canned Wellness diet. He loves it! I think it releases his “inner wolf.” haha Just wondering if anyone else has come across this product. They also sell pastured beef bones of varying sizes with the marrow. Some of their beef comes from Tasmania/New Zealand where the air/pasture/water purity is high. Just passing it on. My doxie is a rescue dog I’ve had since he was 4 and now turning 16–still full of life!

[pmsuperstar84]

LeahT, I live in Lexington and work at a holistic pet health store. We do special orders all the time for stuff we don’t stock on the floor. In fact, I special order my cat’s raw diet from one of our distributors. I know there are a tiny handful of stores like us in the state but they should be able to order as well. What were you looking for?

[Cheryl Pepper Millie Sophie]

Aimee,
I just read your post on THK & need a pre-mix for my schnauzer as she cannot digest kibble,
I thought THK was the best, but if nutritionally it won’t be adequate for her, can you suggest something better.
I do top it off with lightly cooked ground turkey breast or low fat beef-she seems to be doing ok with keeping the food down. I have tried all in the grain-free line except the beef.
we have been transiting very slowly.
Now I worry she will not be getting the proper nutrient profile if she continues to eat this.
I am not a great fan of canned food, that’s why I thought this was the one.
My other choice is the Royal Canin Vet diet hydrolyzed protein. Urghh.
Freeze dried or raw is not an option due to her other health issues.
thank you in advance for any info you can give me.

[jakes mom]

I’ve learned about so many things on this site sometimes I don’t know where to begin, canned, raw, high quality kibble, ABC and kibble, RMBs, geez! Jake will eat anything as I’ve said before, I don’t even need to transition him from one bag of food to the next. Put it in the bowl, it’s gone. Sometimes I doubt he even chews! The cats are a little more high maintenance. Will try the Dr. Becker method for transitioning cats to a different food and see what happens.

[InkedMarie]

Wholesome Hides are the only rawhide I use. It was one recommended by the Whole Dog Journal.