[anonymously]

Glad you were able to get a refund. However, it is not unusual to see undigested carrot pieces in dog feces. One of my dogs had weight issues, she loved to eat, so I would give her a raw carrot as a snack midday. They were bright orange and appeared undigested in her bms…the good news is that they otherwise agreed with her and were low in calories.

[weezerweeks]

Natures variety instinct had a recall in July but Oi think it was on raw. I don’t buy anything from companies that’s had a recall. That’s just the way I feel. Too many other foods out there.

[Michelle H]

I would like to see a review of this by Dog Food Advisor too!

My 13 year old Shih Tzu has allergies to a whole slew of things (chicken, turkey, sweet potato, potato, venison, beef, alfalfa, dust, ragweed pollen, grass, possibly lamb….ugh). This has made feeding her particularly challenging. We had resorted to buying ground raw quail or rabbit from a local “pet food deli”. But it is a 45 minute drive each way; which results in us choosing to buy a LOT of food and freezer storage for it. It also results in us adding supplements and “safe” veggies without knowing if we’re getting the ratios right, etc.

SO….I was pleasantly surprised when I saw Cocolicious Wild Caught Salmon & Pork by Party Animal. I bought a case from Chewy and she has been eating for about 2 weeks. She likes it (but she generally likes most food) and so far I don’t see any allergy reactions. (Hooray!)

How does one request a review from the editor?

[Coonhound Mama]

Nature’s Variety Instinct Raw is expensive stuff at 5 dollars per can, but it’s really excellent quality. You can read reviews of it on here and most all are 5 stars with the exception of just a few that are 4.5 stars. I’d definitely look into it if you can afford it, as the ingredient list is clean and simple and most lines offer a single protein source per can.

[Coonhound Mama]

Nature’s Variety Instinct makes great canned food, but it is five dollars per can which can get expensive when you’re feeding a larger breed dog. My 60 pound girl will eat half a can once a day to make it stretch with a variety of kibble, raw and ground premixes. Nice quality food though if you can afford it.

[Jenn H]

Ah puppies & diarrhea. There’s a million causes.
Given that he’s been having to adjust to new environments in his short life I’m going to keep my fingers crossed that it’s just stress/excitement.
To help him symptomatically make sure the rice you give him is white rice. Brown can be more difficult to digest. When you make the rice save the water it’s boiled in and pour it over food and/or give it to drink.
Pumpkin is a great help in relieving diarrhea. 1 tsp/10 #s.
I have also had great luck with probiotics. An easy 1 to get a hold of is Nutri-vet Food Transition. It’s at Petco & comes in packets or tabs. It’s not expensive. Works great.
Then there’s my all time favorite thing and that’s raw goat milk.
When giving probios or goat milk wait 2 hrs before or 4 hrs after meals if on an antibiotic.
If you think he has a chicken allergy you can try giving him organic ground beef w/ the least amt of fat you can get. Boil it like you would the chicken.
I usually get i/d cans when my dogs need to be on a bland diet. It’s a prescription food. But it makes me feel better to add the rice, chicken/beef to supplement the food because then I know it’s balanced. This is obviously a diet that isn’t meant to be fed for too long. Especially with a growing pup.
Ask the vet to hold off on vaccines until his immune system isn’t busy fighting something else or he’s less stressed. Also I personally prefer to spread out vaccines at least 2 wks apart. I don’t do combos. (Except the parvo. It only comes that way.) It’s easier on the immune system and if there’s a reaction I can know which was the cause. And I only do the core vaxx. Understand that I am not an anti-vaxxer. Just not an over-vaxxer. It took me 30+ yrs of raising dogs and other animals to figure out that they don’t need a lot of the stuff we shoot them up with. And the difference between vaccinating and immunization. And what the shots do when an animal isn’t in optimal health at the time they receive them.
Sometimes dogs lick their paws because they have a fungus. That’s not always a sign of allergies. So if eliminating chicken doesn’t help, try looking into that.
Good luck with your new puppy. Congratulations!

[Jenn H]

Everything I have learned about diet for dogs w/ cancer is high protein, low carbs. Not the easiest foods to find and/or afford (if on a tight budget).
Whenever I’ve had dogs with cancer I head right to the integrated vet. He’s great at mixing & matching treatments, diets, supplements, etc using holistic (not necessarily homeopathic) and convential medicine. If you can find a good vet like that it’s worth a try.
Some vet hospitals also have nutritionists that do consults. For a fee of course.
I’m really into raw goat milk. Check out the Primal or Answers site for info on its benefits.
Good luck & good health to your dogs. I hope they all stay healthy & have long wonderful lives. I feel for you.

[C4D]

Hi Vicky T,

I’m sorry that you’re vet didn’t sound very helpful. Mine was adamant about using the Sub-Q’s and giving famotadine (Pepcid AC) to help with the metabolic acidosis that is a part of kidney disease. That’s the reason he doesn’t want to eat. Imagine trying to eat when you have terrible acid indigestion. It’s generally given 1/2 hour before feeding. You also need to bind the phosphorus with the meal. That’s the reason for the calcium, whether is a natural source (ground eggshell) or premade (i.e. epakitin).

http://www.dogaware.com/health/kidneymedical.html

Here’s the link, from the dogaware site I linked above, that contains the table of phosphorus content of various proteins. Since she is in moderate kidney failure, I would stay with muscle meat. Canned Salmon and Mackerel are very high in phosphorus compared to many other protein sources. The kidney and liver are as well. By comparison raw green tripe (you can find these in some dog stores as frozen). Do not use the bleached white tripe found in the grocery store for people.

http://www.dogaware.com/health/kidneytable.html

[Vicky T]

P.S. He is not on any prescription food and wouldn’t eat it if he was
The vet did not recommend anything other than the sub q saline treatments.
When I asked him if there was any meds he could prescribe he said yes but that none would help that much, so we’re kind of on our own helping our little guy feel comfortable.

Prior to being diagnosed he was on a high quality grain free kibble (wetted with water) mixed with a grain free canned dog food but he started refusing to eat that so I’ve been feeding him people food like eggs, cottage cheese, canned salmon and mackerel, chicken and venison. He also likes cooked and raw carrots.
I have some dog probiotics I’ve been giving him and the supplement he’s on is:
Pet Wellbeing Kidney Support Gold…just something I found on the internet.

I will have to look into the homemade kidney disease diet ASAP.

[Carrie K]

I would not be giving a dog human broth, it contains waaaay too much sodium and can also contain onions and other ingredients that are not healthy and unsafe for dogs. Dogs also do not need tomato, remember dogs are not little omnivore people they are carnivores! If you really want to make a safe broth I would look up how to make dog safe bone broth.

I add fresh raw meat to kibble, despite the militant raw feeders rumors spreading false information around this is NOT dangerous, just that some dogs stomachs don’t handle it well but I do it with four dogs and they are all gleamingly healthy. Cooking takes out all the nutritional content.

As far as kibble goes it’s just a matter of experimentation, my male GSD can’t tolerate anything with chicken or grains, we rotate between several brands every bag.

• This reply was modified 10 years, 1 month ago by Carrie K.

[Christine H]

I also have ordered from Petflow. I must say, I am grateful the credit card companies refund our money when businesses such as this one defunct on their part of the sale. It’s just that it is a drawn out process. It takes weeks before there is a conclusion. Personally I am very much interested in what has happened with them, disappearing off the grid like that… I believe Doggiefood.com was not receiving products from the companies they were distributing for. Many of their items were out of stock for extended periods of time. One dehydrated brand that I really liked was totally taken out of the brands they had listed. I actually called the company and all they would say to me was that doggiefood was out of stock of their food and that I could purchase it from the other online pet food stores. I wouldn’t care if they decided to close their doors, just bothered with the way they did it,
still taking orders, consumers money, with no intentions of sending the product.

[InkedMarie]

CM: yes, Reel Raw Dog has necks!! Definitely do the turkey necks! Nice to “meet” you too!

[Coonhound Mama]

Hi all,

I’d be curious to hear more input regarding what the original poster Ella S included about feeding a tablespoon each of plain nonfat Greek yogurt and canned pumpkin per day. Are there any risks involved in this? I have a 60 lb dog so I don’t think a tablespoon would make much of a difference, but I am concerned that this might be a bit too much Vitamin A in the long run. She’s currently transitioning to raw and suffers from slightly mushy poo, so I add it in to aid in digestion and to help keep bowel movements regular. Any thoughts?

Thanks.

[Jonathan S]

I had that worry the first time I gave turkey necks… my boys swallowed them in big chunks, though luckily there were no problems. I tried giving bigger, solid bones, like lamb shanks, but the amount of fat bothered them a bit.

My solution has been to incorporate ground meats that include bones in their raw diet… specifically ground duck and turkey necks, ground chicken backs, and ground bone it rabbit. I also leave the big, cow femur sections for them to gnaw on during the day.

Hope that helps!

[Coonhound Mama]

I’m a new raw feeder and this worries me, too. My dog is a recently adopted 5 year old coonhound who has been eating kibble her entire life until now. For this reason I started her out on bone, organ and meat grinds until her system adjusts. If you think your dog is a gulper, I would definitely try grinds first. Also, it can be helpful from what I have read to start your dog who is new to edible bones on larger bones that are as big as their own head size to discourage and avoid swallowing a piece that could cause blockages. Good luck!

[Coonhound Mama]

Hi InkedMarie,

Thanks for your response and congratulations on the new puppy! I am located in Old Orchard Beach, Maine. Just moved here a year ago so I’m trying to find some places nearby that will be cost effective. Thanks for sharing your advice regarding Reel Raw. I have read some other reviews that have noted the noticeably higher fat percentage, so I think for now we will stick with Hare Today. Our pup is a 5 year old shelter dog whom we’ve only had for three months, so for right now we are still doing a slow transition to raw. She’s been kibble fed her whole life! We’ve started out on the bone, organ and meat grinds which seems to be going very well. If I can muster up enough courage to start her on some edible bones (other than recreational bones) I will certainly take your advice and try the beef rib bones!

[InkedMarie]

Hello CM!
I use mostly Hare Today; I prefer their products. I do use some Reel Raw too. I use grinds, they’re a little fattier than Hare’s. My older two dogs (we just got a puppy last week) do just fine on their grinds. I buy the ten pounders, defrost then repackge but not in the summer (I hate defrosting when it’s warm). I love their beef rib bones too!
Give them a try! Where in Maine are you, if you don’t mind me asking?

[Coonhound Mama]

Hi Inked Marie,

I’m new to the forums so I apologize for trolling an older post of yours! I was hoping you’d see this as I’ve been reading your posts for awhile now and I’ve noticed you’re located in New England. Any reviews or advice you could offer on how Reel Raw is working for you and your dogs? I am located in Maine so picking somewhere local to source my raw goodies would be absolutely ideal. Currently we shop through Hare Today which is incredible but I would like to move things more local. Thanks again and I hope to hear from you.
-Coonhound Mama

[Coonhound Mama]

Hello all!

I’m a new raw feeder and although I’ve done loads of research on here, in books and around the wide web, I’m still at a loss for how to keep my girl at a proper weight. When we adopted her she was 62 pounds and has swiftly gone down to 57 despite calorie counting and a medium-level fat diet. She is very active (1-2 hours of vigorous cardio per day) and we have a hard time keeping weight on her despite plenty of healthy fats and a partial kibble diet (she’s a 5 year old rescue new to us as of 3 months ago, so we are transitioning slowly).

If anyone has similar experience with large breed athletic dogs and keeping weight on them healthily, please feel free to respond as I am looking for some advice.

[Jenn H]

The common factors of those cases were all dogs were fed Fromm and many acquired a bacteria. That’s more than a coincidence to me. The fact that not all dogs got/get sick from that brand could be for a variety of reasons: individual dog has enough of good bacteria to not be affected, size of dog, certain probios it may be given, general health, recent antibiotic treatment, hospitalization…
While there are too many unknowns to blame the food, the coincidences are enough for me to avoid it for now. I have an adult GSD that has been thru 2 tx of a/b for Lyme and a puppy. I feel their immune systems are not strong/developed enough to take on a stubborn bacterium like C.diff.
I certainly can’t completely protect them from the bacterium short of putting them in a bubble, I can avoid potential/suspected things that may have spores.
C.diff can be anywhere. It’s passed on from feces and easily spread to surfaces, objects and food if the infected person doesn’t wash their hands. It’s also in soil, air, water, food (especially meat). The spores can survive weeks to months.
For now anyway I am going to choose another food for their rotation and continue with the raw goat milk in order to hopefully continue to arm them with plenty of good bacteria and build strong immune systems.
I may eventually feed them Fromm in the future, but I cannot take any risks like that right now.

If the company isn’t aware of these cases I wouldn’t expect them to recall anything. I’m not sure how many of the complainants and vets notified them. That’s a disservice to Fromm. I’m sure they would want to know and investigate. Not having this info doesn’t give them an opportunity to remedy any problems that may exist or rebut the claims. This leaves consumers like me who can’t have dogs that can’t afford an infection to steer clear just in case.
Communication is key to keep everyone in the know, honest, accountable, protected and help them improve a product. It doesn’t do much good overall to leave a bad review on a site, but not tell the source about their issues.

[anonymously]

I stopped feeding my dogs raw bones after we ended up at the emergency vet x2 for GI blockages.

Give a Dog a Bone (Not!)–FDA warns of dangers of feeding bones to dogs

http://skeptvet.com/Blog/?s=raw+diet
Also, check the search engine here, example /forums/topic/rectal-issues/

[Margaret J]

I have a 45 lbs australian cattle dog and I fed him his first chicken foot last night. He did some crunching and chewing and then happily swallowed the foot whole with much of the bones still intact. One section of bone was large enough that he appeared struggle for a moment to swallow it but since then has appeared to be fine.

How concerned should I be about how well his raw bones are chewed? He does know how to chew his food and did chew the chicken foot some but I’m still anxious about the size of the bones he’s ingesting. Or maybe I’m being overly anxious and should just trust him and his body to know what to do with those raw bones?

Thanks for any help and input

[Jenn H]

I have to say that raw unpasteurized goat milk has been a lifesaver. I wish I knew about it years ago. It’s considered a super food. And I never really thought it was all that it was cracked up to be until I had was so desperate for anything to work in a particular situation.
If you have a certified organic farmer that sells it near you or at a farmer’s market get it. That’s the least expensive.
If you can’t find it locally try a small mom & pop pet store that sells raw diets. That’s where I end up getting it most of the time. My store sells Primal brand.
Online you can try The Honest Kitchen Pro Bloom. It’s dehydrated. More reasonably priced than Primal.
If you look on the Answers website they have tons of info & links about the million benefits of raw goat milk.
Like I said I didn’t believe it til I tried it. Now I swear by it. Since giving it to my dog with Lyme she hasn’t needed any anti-inflammatory drugs and her stomach didn’t get upset from the antibiotic this time.
The puppy has been having diarrhea off & on for some unknown reason. Since giving it to him daily no more diarrhea.
Every morning about 20-30 min before breakfast I give them pure pumpkin mixed with raw goat milk.
It has been a miracle. I really can’t say enough about it. I suggest trying that before spending a ton of money on nutritionists. I really think you’ll find improvement pretty quickly.

[Vicki K]

Thanks, pugsmomsandy. Yes, I already give probiotics. Ours is a 4mo GR 26#s. She handles raw just fine. May try slippery elm which helped while weening.

[pugmomsandy]

Probiotics and digestive enzymes. Also, you might try feeding just a little less since it doesn’t sound like he’s processing the food very well. My 5 lb pup used to be able to clear a room but now he eats anything, even raw eggs, and no gas.

[Jenn H]

My favorite pro-bio was Wysong. It came in a little bottle w/ a pump. It is very expensive though.
In a pinch I use Nutri-vet food transition packets. You can get it at PetCo. Also works well.
My all time favorite now is raw, unpasteurized goat milk. Only takes 20 min to digest and they absolutely love it. Can’t get enough. (I personally think it’s the nastiest stuff, but it’s not about me.)
I also give them pure pumpkin & bananas. They love that too. Bananas are a very good prebiotic.
If you’re insistent on vegan I guess the raw goat milk won’t be OK for you though.

[Jenn H]

I have no poblem with vegetarian diets for dogs (that are nutritionally balanced of course). I had a dog that couldn’t breakdown animal proteins. (If there were enzymes available for it then I would’ve given him that instead). He was a vegetarian. But still got his protein from eggs. Which is a food that has the highest biological value. Eventually it was realized that a lot of dogs were having difficulty with the most common meats in dog foods because of the sources & inbreeding of the animals, etc. He did fine with kangaroo & rabbit.
Anyway, vegetarian and vegan diet are NOT the same thing. Dogs have been close companions of humans for 45,000 yrs. You bet they have evolved. They are more omnivorous than ever and actually do best on a diet of plants, grains and MEATS. While they can adapt to a WELL-BALANCED vegan diet, they do best with a diet of animal fats & proteins.
Vegetarian & vegan diets require adding synthetic amino acids. Dogs cannot produce these very important elements themselves. Make sure none of that is sourced from China.
If you go to certain parts of the world you will see lots of dogs on the streets surviving on whatever they find. While that shows they can adapt, I wouldn’t exactly say they are thriving.
As for the dogs that have lived well into their 20s on vegan diets I don’t believe they aren’t getting appropriate proteins somewhere. I would bet they eat other animals. Mice, birds, whatever they hunt unknowingly to their people.
The cattle dog you mentioned admittedly wasn’t vegetarian. But I also have to say that I doubt Guiness followed that dog through its whole life. Who’s to say it was 29? Were they able to prove it by means other than a birth certificate? I couldn’t find any other means used to prove the ages of the oldest dogs. It appears they were (assuming their ages were real) the exceptions. Miracles really.
We all want our dogs to live as long as us with the best quality of life. Sometimes that means not anthropromorphizing them, doing/feeding things that are disgusting to us, but necessary to them. Or making difficult choices that will break our hearts, but will relieve them of pain. They are dogs. They are not humans. We have a great responsibility & are privileged to provide them with everything they depend on.
I only want what is best for anyone’s animals.
It is incredibly selfish to insist that your dog should be vegan because you are. Even if you supplement appropriately it isn’t the same as getting nutrients from the right food source. “Let your food be your medicine.”
I understand some dogs need to be vegetarians for health reasons. I have been there when other options weren’t available until later in his life. As soon as I discovered other choices I tried them. Because he was a dog. I didn’t love feeding him kangaroo or rabbit (we have rabbit pets. His best friend was a rabbit.) But he didn’t know he was eating cute animals. He only knew & cared that he was eating and not feeling bad afterward.
I should mention that I have only ever had GSDs my entire life. None of them that I raised developed arthritis or hd. Others I have adopted/fostered improved almost instantly once given an appropriate diet & exercise for that individual dog. Right now I have 3 dogs and 5 different foods because all of them need different things at the moment.
My point is just do what is best for the dog. Don’t push your beliefs on them. They don’t care. Feed them meat products. Even if it’s just eggs and raw goat milk. But make sure they get a balanced diet. If they live to be 20+ that’s awesome if they are healthy, happy, pain-free. If they live to be a happy & loved 10 year old without any suffering, then you’ve done your job.
Their time with us flies by. Enjoy them fully. Love them completely.

[Shawna]

Hi Courtney,

So sorry, I just now saw your reply to me!!

Yes, I believe Dori is quite satisfied with the support and dietary advice she received from Dr. Wynn. Dori is a raw feeder and feeds pre-made complete and balanced diets so I’m not exactly sure what involvement Dr. Wynn had. Maybe just consult versus diet formulation? I can ask Dori to comment.

A nutritionist, whether credentialed or not, holds no value to me if they don’t have a deeper understanding of how “healthy foods” (like canola oil) 🙂 can be damaging. I want someone willing to think outside the box versus someone to just spout out recipes that simply meet all the nutrient requirements. I’m not sure all the people I listed can do that but I have more faith in them then some others I’ve seen (especially Drs. Becker and Royal). The problem with this is that you might have to spend more on more supplements but, in my opinion, in the long run it pays off with better health. An example if needing canola for it’s Linoleic acid — hemp seed oil would be an alternative having 54 to 57% LA (Dr. Becker recommends hemp seed in her recipe book when feeding a beef diet). Another option, and my personal choice, would be pumpkin seed oil. It contains approximately 64% LA. In addition to that it is high in vitamin E and in chlorophyll which is quite health promoting. It’s likely that a source of Omega 3 would need to be added in higher amounts with these two than with canola but that is definitely doable for most.

There are nutritionists that can formulate a complete and balanced diet and then their are folks that can formulate a complete and balanced diet while doing so with foods that not only meet nutritional needs but also promote optimal health. But I’m sure you understand that as you are trying to get a more personalized, healthier diet. 🙂

I think this article written by a human dietitian explains the problem quite well
“A DIETITIAN’S TRAINING AND ROUTINE

Providing Medical Nutrition Therapy in a nursing home requires credentials as a registered dietitian with the American Dietetic Association’s (ADA) Commission on Dietetic Registration. Training is extensive. In most cases it requires a bachelor’s degree from an accredited college, an internship of nine months to a year working within a clinical setting, and passing a comprehensive exam.

During my clinical training as a dietitian, I was not taught holistic nutrition principles. I did not learn the benefits of herbs, or of the importance of whole foods, probiotics, enzymes, or organically grown foods to good health. I did not learn to use vitamin and mineral supplementation to overcome illness or disease. I did not understand that poor nutrition is probably the cause of most disease and poor health conditions in the first place. I had no idea that we require cholesterol and saturated fat to be well. I did not learn that the nutritional value of grass-fed beef was superior to grain-fed beef, or of the importance of iodine coupled with the avoidance of bromine for proper thyroid function, and so on.

I was taught we should eat less fat and more grain products. I was led to believe that pharmaceutical therapy was necessary and that nutrition made little or no impact in treating an already established condition. My continuing education hours were offered free by the pharmaceutical industry. During these classes I was taught about their “new and improved” Ensure and other products they were promoting.” – See more at: http://www.westonaprice.org/health-topics/health-issues/a-dietitians-experience-in-the-nursing-home/#sthash.SWFcZ0Bo.dpuf

It’s often more about what you know than what (or even where) you were taught.

• This reply was modified 10 years, 1 month ago by Shawna.
• This reply was modified 10 years, 1 month ago by Shawna.

[C4D]

Hi Michael S,

it’s been a while since you posted, but these links might help. Generally organ meat, even in raw feeding, should be no more than 10 % of the total diet and liver only 5%. I find it’s a bit too rich to use alone, so I often mix with lung and fresh cooked muscle meat. I have large dogs, Labs, and tend to keep the treats slightly bigger than a pea. It’s easy to nibble, get back quickly to training, and keeps them interested in more since they don’t get full.

http://www.dogsnaturallymagazine.com/why-organ-meat-is-important-for-the-raw-fed-dog/

http://dogaware.com/diet/treats.html

George B,

I generally don’t treat for potty breaks, but you could apply the above information if you use treats. And treats, even good ones, shouldn’t be more than 10% of the total diet. I foster and find that crate training is very effective in potty training, especially in the beginning. Good luck with your pup!

• This reply was modified 10 years, 1 month ago by C4D.

[Jenn H]

I was also going to suggest LID.
A long time ago I had a dog that couldn’t eat the usual proteins like chicken & beef. This was before there were so many dogs effected by allergies so our options were very limited and very expensive.
If he could’ve lived forever I would’ve probably tried enzymes, pineapple, probiotics, pure pumpkin. All things I have found go help my dogs after him.
If he was here today I would probably be giving him raw goat milk. I swear that stuff is good for everything and everyone.
Good luck on your search. I hope your dog gets some relief soon.

[C4D]

Dawn A,

I feed raw, but I use a commercial, complete and balanced diet. If you are making your own, please research how to make a balanced homemade recipe. This is particularly critical since your dog is a puppy and nutritional deficiencies and/or imbalances can cause some really big problems as they grow, particularly in large breeds.

Dr. Becker, Whole Dog Journal, dogaware.com are a few places to start.

[charles h]

Hey,

Your definitely not adding enough bone to the diet. It’s very hard with a young dog to get the consistency right. Our puppy refused to eat any chicken bone and we had to literally starve her but it is all we could do to avoid runny stools.

She now eats a full raw diet with no complaints and looks healthier for it. The trick is to not give in and feed her ‘other’ food just to get them to eat.

Stick with raw and it wil work itself out.

[Dawn A]

Hello!
I am pretty new to raw feeding, and although I have done (what seems like) extensive research on the topic, I still have a few questions. Our pup is 12 weeks this Saturday and we started him on raw at 6 weeks. We tried a handful of proteins including chicken, beef, pork and turkey, as well as eggs and goat’s milk to begin with, although the last two we only fed a few times before finding that it tended to result in runny stools. More recently we have been feeding about 18-20oz. per day of chicken (we took a whole chicken and quartered I, partitioning it into daily allotments that we freeze immediately, then partially thaw before feeding) and occasional liver, gizzards and hearts and all has been well…until about two days ago. He’s not acting sick (so much energy!) and eats with gusto, but his stools are getting looser. He will have one solid in the morning, then the rest will be runny to completely liquid. Among possible solutions I have read are removing the skin (we haven’t yet, but will be trying that over the next couple of days) and adding more bone (currently we are supplementing with extra chicken breast meat, but are considering legs instead for the bone…plus he loves them!). Any ideas or feedback would be great! Thank you in advance!

[Shawna]

Hi Ken,

I haven’t read through all the comments but I wanted to state that it could be the chicken causing the issue — a chicken sensitivity versus and allergy. Maybe the chicken itself OR what the chicken ate even (since it seems to be brand specific). I’m a raw feeder of multiple dogs (I have six of my own right now and foster) for over 10 years by the way. My Pom gets ulcerative colitis (bright red blood in diarrhea (her’s is almost liquid though)). Chicken is what sets my girl off (only the muscle meat – she is fine with eggs, liver, kidneys etc).

Sensitivities can manifest after the dog (or person) has been on the food for a while. A protein in certain foods, called a lectin, can bind with the gut wall and cause disease. Initially it binds with IgA (an immune system antigen) but eventually the body is not capable of producing enough IgA to bind with the lectin and then you see symptoms. Typical allergy tests test for IgE immunoglobulins so they can’t detect food sensitivities (which are actually much more common than IgE allergies). I understand that the food he gets better on is “boiled chicken” but boiling (at least with legumes) leaches some of the lectins from the food making less for the body to have to deal with. OR possibly the boiled chicken is different than the one causing the IBD because of something the chicken ate (organic grains fed to livestock have lectins too).

Okay, that was just one thought. The other is that the raw chicken drumstick and thigh diet is not a balanced diet. I know, I know……eye rolls and oh not one of those must be balanced nuts. 🙂 hee hee But there really is something to it. Dark meat chicken is an excellent source of linoleic acid (the omega 6 fat that is necessary for health). However when LA is over-consumed and/or not consumed in balance with omega 3 fats it can be quite inflammatory. Although a good source of LA, chicken is deficient in saturated fatty acids which the body also needs. You don’t mention organs which supply other nutrients. This may or may not be a direct cause but it certainly could be an indirect cause.

Hope, whatever it is, you can get it figured out and get back to wonderful health.

[Shawna]

I haven’t worked with any of these folks but have been following them for years.
Monica Segal
Kymythy Schultz
Cat Lane

Dr. Meg Smart is a board certified vet and taught nutrition. She’s in Canada but may do long distance consults. She is a raw feeder and although she uses some products I wouldn’t (like canola oil etc) I do think she would customize further.

Dr. Susan Wynn is another board certified vet nutritionist. One of my friends uses her and is very VERY picky about what she will give her dogs (only species appropriate foods).

Dr. Barbara Royal and Dr. Karen Becker are not certified nutritionists but in my opinion have a great grasp on species appropriate ingredients and foods and have a better understanding on why not to use some things (like canola oil). Dr. Royal created a prescription raw liver and a kidney diet that are sold through Darwins. Dr. Becker co-wrote “Dr. Becker’s Real Food for Healthy Dogs and Cats”. She has a wonderful grasp on healthful foods and nutrients and how those foods could help or harm our pets.

Hope the above gives you a few jumping off points!!!

[Shawna]

Hi Vicky T,

My Chihuahua mix had kidney disease from birth and lived to just shy of nine years of age. The most important thing I can say about kidney disease is DON’T feed a kibble diet — even prescription kibble. If you want to stick with prescription, Science Diet has some nice canned products that they recently came out with. One is beef based and the other is chicken based. If you are interested in feeding homemade, Veterinary Nutritionist Dr. Meg Smart has a nice recipe on her blog page. Dr. Smart gives a recipe for “early to moderate” and for “late stage” kidney disease. http://petnutritionbysmart.blogspot.com/2013/02/home-made-diets-and-renal-disese-in.html

Many, if not most, vets have not yet heard about (or understand if they did hear) the importance of probiotics and certain prebiotics (aka fermentable fibers) for kidney patients. These two supplements help to re-route BUN from the dog’s blood to the colon. This helps pup feel better and allows for a bit higher protein diet. The Merck Vet Manual has a nice blurb about it if your or your vet might be interested. They write “In addition, feeding moderately fermentable fiber can facilitate enteric dialysis and provide a nonrenal route of urea excretion.” http://www.merckvetmanual.com/mvm/management_and_nutrition/nutrition_small_animals/nutrition_in_disease_management_in_small_animals.html

The fermentable fiber I found to be the most helpful with my Audrey was a human product called “Fiber35 Sprinkle Fiber”. It is no longer made but the fiber used, acacia fiber, is also sold by NOW brand. The probiotic I used is also a human product called “Garden of Life Primal Defense”. I gave the products together with Audrey’s meal whenever she seemed depressed, down or not feeling well. Audrey at a HIGH protein diet her whole except the last couple months and then I added some canned KD to her diet.

If Audrey had symptoms of nausea (which was rare until the very end) I would add a drop or two of peppermint essential oil (therapeutic grade only) or ginger extract (from health food store). Now vet Dr. Melissa Shelton has a line of essential oils for animals that are wonderful. I tried her GI Goe product when I had eaten something that wasn’t agreeing with me and it helped TREMENDOUSLY.. I put a dot of the oil on my finger and rubbed it on my tongue. Helped almost immediately.

Having a purified source of high quality drinking water always available is a great idea. Also giving Evian (or another high calcium, lower sodium mineral water) has been shown to help kd patients too.

The one supplement that I gave my Audrey from the day of diagnosis to the day she passed was Standard Process Canine Renal Support. It is a whole food supplement that can help prevent damage to the kidneys from inflammation. I HIGHLY recommend it.

I also really really like Answer’s Raw Goat Milk for kd dogs. It can often be found in pet boutique stores.

I found my local vets (two regular vets and one holistic vet (that I otherwise LOVE)) to be almost useless when it came to diet (or anything else natural that could be helpful with kidney disease).. I hope your vet is much more helpful!!!

Do take a look at the link that C4D posted (dogaware). That site was HUGELY helpful to me when I was trying to figure out what to do with Audrey right after diagnosis.

Good luck to you and thanks to C4D for the kind words!!!!

[Ken Y]

Thank you everyone for the comments. The blood spots and diarrhea has stopped after fasting him and then giving him rice. We will still be taking him to the vet to be safe, but my friend’s cousin, who is a veterinarian, stated that this is commonly caused by irritation to the digestive system and usually corrects itself.

I received my shipment from Reel Raw, which is a variety of ground, bone-in chicken, green tripe, duck, turkey, lamb, organs, etc. I initially ordered the premeasured service meals to test different types of meat and see if he can adjust to them. The goal is to start grinding his meals at home as my father owns a restaurant and has all the equipment. I still want to minimize his carb intake.

[Madeline B]

Unlike the bones in raw salmon, the bones in canned salmon are pressure cooked and safe because they are soft and crumbly. They are also a hood cource of calcium.

[InkedMarie]

I can’t answer about the blood but chicken only for four months is not good. Dogs need primarily red meats. I feed raw and mine have a mix of beef, venison, chicken, turkey, pork, lamb, green tripe, goat, rabbit…

[Susan]

Hi, my boy does poos with red blood when he eats something that he’s allergic too, also Bone stop any bone in the diet & add grounded egg shells instead for calcuim, I went thru a Animal Nutritionist to put Patch on a raw diet, I had to start with low fat meats Kangaroo, Chicken or Turkey & just 1 protein, no bones or organ meat….. I then had to blend some broccoli, Celery, Carrot & Apple in a blender & stop just before the veggies turn to a pulp water, I was adding 1 cup kangaroo with 1-2 spoons blended veggies, freeze the rest in section in freezer for the rest of the week/month… the Nutritionist wouldn’t let me feed any pet shop meats, raw Barf diets….she said the meat is real low grade quality & make my own raw…..
Patch didn’t last on his Raw Diet, he has IBD Skin/Food Allergies, I now cook his meals & he’s doing heaps better no blood, no jelly poos he also eats a kibble but not mixed with any cooked meals….

[Amy W]

Hi Ken,
I’m pretty new to the site too. My dog has seasonal allergies (watery eyes and nose) and also a chronic yeast issue. The vet says they feed off of each other, compromised immune from environmental allergies make opportunistic yeast more rapid spreading. I have a French Bulldog with lots of folds, so yeast has a great place to hide. Like you, I wanted to cut out all sugars, which feed yeast, too see if it helped. I chose a freeze-dried raw from this site (TruDog) which has been less complicated from a safety standpoint. They have Turkey and Beef ( which it looks like your dog is allergic to).

I do try to keep her off as many harmful meds as reasonable, but I have found that despite my best efforts, she still needs allergy meds during seasonal allergy times. We will see if after a good freeze, the yeast slows down with the other allergies. I regularly clean my dogs “folds” and ears, and soak her feet. That helps some with yeast.

I guess basically what I am saying is the whole allergy/food/environment/ genetic thing is complicated, and while I personally think cutting the sugar with a raw diet seems like a good plan for dealing with yeast, I am finding that if I really want to do right by my dog, just the diet won’t alleviate all of her issues. You might check out a freeze dried raw. There are a couple on the site. A little more quality control for my piece of mind. Good luck, itchy is complicated!

[anonymously]

I don’t listen to Dr Google if I see blood…..
I go to a real veterinarian who can examine my pet and advise me.

BTW: I have a medical background, I don’t go to the vet for every little thing.

PS: I had a dog on a semi-raw diet with raw bones, and I ended up at the emergency vet x 2 due to a blockage. No thank you.
I hope your dog is well, good luck.

[Ken Y]

I feel as if your response is a little bit of an over reaction.. I appreciate the information provided and did read through some of it, but I have done plenty of research of my own before choosing to put my dog on a raw diet. As indicated, he was perfectly fine for the first 4-5mo without incidents. Are you yourself familiar with the idea and benefits of the raw diet?

As for his condition, there’s a big difference between ‘bloody’ and ‘spots of blood’ in his stool.

“FIELD GUIDE
While normal stools can be many shades of brown, some abnormalities in color and consistency may indicate an underlying problem.

1. Streaks of bright red blood and/or mucus on the surface of a mostly normal, formed stool. This is generally caused by inflammation in the large intestine, where mucus is secreted to help protect the intestinal lining. While this does not necessarily indicate an emergency, it’s a good idea to keep a close eye out for further changes in your dog’s behavior and stool.

2. Soft-formed to liquid brown diarrhea, with or without streaks of blood. “Cow patty” and “soft-serve ice cream” are two frequent descriptors. As with the previous type, it is generally not life-threatening as long as there are no other signs of concern and it begins to improve within 24 to 48 hours. If your dog is acting normally otherwise— eating well, not vomiting, good attitude —a wait-and-see home approach may be tried (more on this to follow). Here again, red blood indicates inflammation and bleeding in the colon but does not necessarily mean that your pet is bleeding internally, as is often thought. This is a step up in concern from the previous condition, in the sense that the stool is now softer.

3. A large volume of bloody, watery, diarrhea. This one does require immediate evaluation by your veterinarian, especially with smaller dogs, as it can be an indicator of a common condition called hemorrhagic gastroenteritis, or HGE. (Read more about it here: thebark.com/hge) Tissue sloughing from the intestines gives it a distinctive appearance, and it’s often described as “raspberry jam” diarrhea.”

[anonymously]

If it was my dog I would take him to the emergency vet now/today for some testing and x-rays.
Bloody diarrhea is an indication of something being very wrong. Maybe a sharp bone fragment has caused some internal bleeding? Why are you doing this? A lot of dogs can’t tolerate raw.
Please do some research:
http://skeptvet.com/Blog/?s=raw+food
http://skeptvet.com/Blog/?s=nutrition

http://skeptvet.com/Blog/2011/09/integrating-myths-and-nonsense-with-standard-advice-for-allergic-pets/ (excerpt below)
Bottom Line
Allergies are a serious medical problem that causes a great deal of suffering for pets and their owners. Causes are complex and involve both genetic, developmental, and environmental factors, and symptoms tend to come and go unpredictably, which makes evaluating the effects of any particular intervention challenging. While there are many safe and effective therapies that can help manage allergy symptoms, there is no cure. Only complete avoidance of the antigens the individual is allergic to can eliminate symptoms entirely, and this is often not possible. No treatment that has any benefit is completely without risks, and the risks and benefits must always be carefully and rationally weighed.

Article on apoquel and treatment options for allergies http://www.2ndchance.info/Apoquel.htm
excerpt below:
Food Allergies are probably over-diagnosed in dogs (they account for, perhaps 5-10%). Hypoallergenic diets are occasionally, but not frequently, helpful in canine atopy cases but you should always give them a try. Food intolerances are more common – but considerably more likely to result in digestive disturbances and diarrhea than in itching problems.

Intradermal Skin Tests http://www.allergydogcentral.com/2011/06/30/dog-allergy-testing-and-allergy-shots/
“An intradermal skin test involves the injection of a small amount of antigen into your dog’s skin. This procedure is most often performed by a veterinary dermatologist or pet allergy specialist”.

BTW: Dogs can be stoic and not show any signs and symptoms of pain and discomfort, until it is extreme.

• This reply was modified 10 years, 1 month ago by anonymously.

[Ken Y]

Hello Everyone,

As the title reads, I am currently having a diarrhea with bright colored blood, which has been on and off twice now for about 2weeks. This is my first post and I read a few other posts on here about my dog’s current condition, but didn’t find exactly what I was looking for.

I have a 5yo Male Boston Terrier named ‘Hammond’ who was brought up on Taste of The Wild (Fowl Mix) dry kibble. He is my dog, but my father has grown quite fond of him and takes him during the work week and I get him on the weekends. He has been allergy tested due to an ongoing itchy skin condition since he was 1yo and tested positive to an abundance of substances. The main allergens consist of beef, venison, milk, dust mites and certain grass. I recently read an article that seemed to indicate that his skin condition may be a result of a yeast infection and have since switched his diet to a carb free raw diet.

He has been on a raw organic, no additive, low sodium chicken drumstick and thigh diet for about 4-5months now. He was about 28lbs before the raw diet and has since slimmed down to about 25lbs. His calculated serving size totals to be about 1.25lbs a day. I have found a prefered brand I like at a local grocery store and my father has been feeding him an organic brand from Costco with similar listings. He was perfectly fine with the switch with only one or two incidents, which involved bile throw up since the switch until recently. He has had about 2 separate incidents this past 2 weeks involving diarrhea and bright red blood spots. I took the appropriate steps and fasted him for a full day and gave him some rice and boiled chicken to see if symptoms improved and then went back to the drumsticks and thighs. Everything seemed fine for a few days, with the exception of softer stool than usual, but just yesterday, my father told me the diarrhea and blood was back.

We are taking him to the vet this Sat, but I’m more than positive that the Dr. is going to tell us to switch back to a reg dry kibble dog food as most vets don’t approve of raw diets.

Both diarrhea incidents happened when my father had him, feeding him the Costco organic chicken. Is it possible that maybe he got a bad batch of chicken? I have ordered a supply of the ‘Premeasured service’, chicken necks and green tripe from Reel Raw as recommended from this site and it will be arriving today. I made sure to list his allergens in the ground mix.

Should I stop with the raw?..

Thank you for the long read and any advise is appreciated.

[Keryn S]

I’ve used oral flea and tick treatments for years (when available) and have NEVER had a problem. On the farm we used Proban for 20 years until it was withdrawn from sale due to difficulties sourcing a key component of the preparation.

In that time we didn’t have fleas or ticks on the dogs. Yes it did cost us a bit to treat 4 dogs (one of which was 45kg) however this was small in comparison had we had to treat for scrub tick paralysis.

I was devastated when Proban was no longer available but did manage to keep the dogs flea and tick free from regular use of flea and tick collars. It is only the scrub ticks we are concerned able in Australia as the kangaroo, dog and cattle ticks are a nuisance but don’t have the severe consequences should a dog come in contact with them.

I am now using Bravecto and love it. It’s easy to give, doesn’t leave a smell or stickiness on their coat and the dogs tolerate it well.

[InkedMarie]

Hi Michelle,
No proof just my opinion that breed specific food is just a sales pitch. All dogs are different in a specific breed. Blue Buffalo has had it’s share of problems; I wouldn’t feed it. If you do a google search for Dr. Karen Beckers video on the best food, you’ll see that she feels a high quality wet food (canned, raw, dehydrated) is better than dry. Dry food is dehydrating to dogs (according to her). If you must feed dry, at least add warm water to it and/or canned.
I doubt one grape will cause any kidney problems. Don’t bother talking dog food with your vet unless it’s a holistic vet or nutritionist. They get very little nutrition education in vet school.
Why do you think she has a skin allergy? Pick a food and stick with it. If you keep changing foods because you think she doesn’t like it, you’re going to create a picky eater. Switching foods often is a great thing to do but leave her on one food for a bag, or more, then transition to something else.

[karen m]

If she doesn’t want to eat it that bad, listen to her. Dogs know what food is good for them when they are unwell they often only eat certain things. Raw chicken is highest in bacteria so maybe its not right for her now.
Do you have a vet in your area that also uses natural remedies/herbs as well as traditional? Would be worth a visit.

[crazy4cats]

Hi Tom-
Sorry to hear about the troubles with your pup. My dogs also have struggled with sensitive stomachs. Have you tried any digestive supplements at all? I’ve used Gastriplex by Thorne, Vetri-Pro BD by Vetri-Science, Perfect Form by The Honest Kitchen. I think Perfect Form is the best, but it does have a strong odor which may turn off your dog. You can read about these and other issues at http://www.dogaware.com and click on the digestive disorders tab. I have had the best luck with Victor and Whole Earth Farms kibble. I also add a little commercial frozen raw, tripe or egg to their meals to bump up the nutritional value with no digestive upset.

I agree with Susan, that you might want to explore a different brand of Rx food such as, Royal Canin if you want to continue with that route. Good luck!

[Alex p]

since meat is high in phosphorus and lower in calcium, too much meat is not good for dogs over long periods of time”. (Many people still confuse the disastrous all meat diets with meat-based diets; one is not good the other is ideal.) Grain-based diets for dogs, and even more so for cats, do not make nutritional sense.

You can offer some natural foods to provide some variety. Natural foods include fresh human-grade raw meat (e.g. raw lamb), raw meaty bones and vegetables