BCnut, I just had a couple of general questions. I don’t want to go to completely raw yet but wonder if it would be good to give Jake something raw now and then. Like a piece of chicken for supper instead of his kibble some days, or some stew beef or chix on top of his kibbles. He’s a beagle mix, healthy, 9 years old, 30ish pounds. Can I do the same for the cats? Can I just hand them a small chunk of meat or piece of a wing? And I read something about freezing for 2 weeks. Does everything need to be frozen before feeding?
Thanks!
Akari, not up to your level of course, but I got a bag of Wellness treats and 2 big cans of Core for .98!
Budget-friendly dog foods are special. They can indeed be Editor’s Choice companies. However, they may also have a few minor flaws that may prevent them from qualifying for the EC list. Yet still allow them to be considered above average quality and good value. That’s why we divided the list into two sections.
The fact a company has recalls does not ever preclude them from any list of quality products. We avoid companies that hide recall-like events from consumers or have a history of making recalls recalls a habit.
Example: Natura, the makers of Innova, California Natural, EVO and others is still a great pet food company. Until last year, they had a history of zero recalls. The fact they’re owned by a larger company can be a good thing. Larger companies typically maintain better quality control, on premises labs, access to pretested raw materials, etc. They are still under consideration for Editor’s Choice.
By the way, 3 star products are still recommended dog foods. Another example, when it comes to feeding large breed puppies, some of the most scientifically based and tested products are only rated 3-stars and come from very large producers.
Hope this makes sense.
Tabitha, good points – I don’t think it’s the nutrition because I try to supplement Bruno’s kibble diet with RMBs and raw eggs, sardines, coconut oil, yoghurt/kefir, pumpkin, flax seeds, and the occasional dog-friendly fruit/veggie bits, as well as canned food.
Now, the boredom might be it. Both the hubs and I go to school full time and work part-time, so poor guy sometimes only gets 30min-1hr walks instead of a good playtime in the dog park or good training session. We have 2 brain-stimulating doggie board games that we need to whip out more often… so that could definitely be part of it. Even with my busy schedule I try to take him to the dog park at least 2-3 times/week, weather and time permitting, but when I injured my back last Sunday I wasn’t able to take him out at all thi s week. BUT, I also try to play chase with him for 15-30min in the evenings, but I can definitely look into more options… thanks for some suggestions, Carlyn! 🙂
Have not seen any replies to my question on the raw forum, it’s been a week, I’m kind of surprised nobody’s posted anything yet. But if I see anything I’ll let you know.
Akari, how did Kitty like his chix wing?
TParticipant
A commercial raw diet may be the easiest way for you to try a very low carbohydrate diet for your dog. The major brands are relatively easy to feed (frozen patties) and contain all the vitamins and minerals to sustain life long-term. For example, Nature’s Variety Instinct Raw frozen patties have very low carb content.
Tabitha
Here’s an article on my blog about a few brands of commercial raw food:
http://naturalalternativesvet.com/cooked-and-raw-dog-food-comparison/
Amy R. I’ve been feeding my three toy dogs (Maltese, Maltipoo and Yorkipoo) Primal Pronto in their rotation of commercial raw foods. It is hands down their favorite and also mine. I’ve never had any issues with Primal Pronto whatsoever. You can’t go wrong. THK is very very messy with light colored dogs. My Maltese, Hannah, is obviously white and Katie my Maltipoo is a very very light apricot/blondish color.
I don’t feed any kibble so I can’t advise on Merrick or any other dry food. I have heard a lot of people recommending Victor Grain Free dry. I think it’s the Yukon protein that they like but they are probably rotating within the brand. As I said not sure.
When Desi was living (rip Boobala) he was one of those “vacuum” dogs, too. He had Pica, a disorder where they eat all kinds of random things that are not food. I definitely taught him “leave it” and I also taught him “drop it”. I did this when he was a pup because I saw that he was going to be a difficult dog. Most of the time it worked. I also conditioned him to being used to me sticking my whole hand in his mouth or down his throat lol, as well as accepting me literally crawling into his crate to get something he had that he shouldn’t. This didn’t stop him from passing away at an early age of 8 years old, though…he had health problems that I believe caused the Pica and the vet I had didn’t care to listen to me about it all. Long story, but I have since switched vets because of Desi, especially.
Hi Jakes mom:
If you get any recommendations for feeding raw to your kitties, would you mind posting it on this thread? I won’t be switching to a complete raw diet since I don’t have the freezer space, but I have enough freezer space to accomodate a dog and five cats for a few meals each per week if they like it. I honestly haven’t taken the time to look into feeding raw to my kitties, but I always like reading about everyone’s experiences as well as any suggestions someone might have.
I am going to see if Bobby likes turkey necks. He has beautiful teeth at four, but I would like to try and interest him in chewing bones. When I give him a bone the first thing he does is run off to bury it. He doesn’t even eat the fresh meat on it, he’s more interested in burying the bone than eating it. Maybe a turkey neck will be more appealing, who knows.
C4c let me know about a website earlier this week, catsadored.com. We were discussing litter boxes earlier in this thread, don’t know if you read any of it. Anyway, this guy has an interesting suggestion for litter that he feels is comparable to “The World’s Best Cat Litter,” which I have never used so IDK. I think I am going to give it a try this summer just to try it. Check it out if you have time.
Akari:
I have been referring to your cat by Gary and Roger, sorry. Which one is it again?
I’m also interested in feeding a little raw to my guys, dog and cats. I asked a few questions on the raw food forum a few days ago but nobody has responded yet. Please let us know how you make out with giving Roger/Gary a chix wing or chunk of stew beef. He’s a very lucky cat! And thanks for the comments about the BB litter, I’d been thinking of trying it. And you may reconsider a water fountain, my guys are not especially fond of the faucet either but they all love the ceramic fountain. I’m sure they drink more than they ever did from a plain water bowl. Were a little wary of it at first, I ended up unplugging it for a day til they got used to the look of it.
Hey all. I currently feed The Honest Kitchen and I love it for my Shih Tzu. However, he is a Gold/White Parti and is beard is always green even after washing his face after he eats. I’m considering changing his diet to a combination of Merrick dry and Primal Pronto raw. Anyone feeding either of these? If so, how is it working for you?
Thank you, Amy
I moved a few months ago and the new pet store I go to carries a brand of commercial raw called “Genesis Raw” made by Maverick Pet Foods- http://www.yum4dogs.com/genesis-rawreg.html
I was wondering what the experienced raw feeders think of this food. I got a small 2lb brick for Max to try and he really liked it, but I didn’t want to buy more of it until I did a bit more research and got some feedback. Here is the ingredient list for the turkey:
Ingredients: Fresh Turkey with Ground Bone, Fresh Turkey Hearts, Fresh Turkey Gizzards, Fresh Turkey Liver,Carrots, Spinach, Celery, Apples, Parsley, Garlic, Coriander, Thyme, Ground Ginger, Rosemary, Salmon Oil, Olive Oil. Apple Cider Vinegar, Flaxseed, Vitamin and Mineral Complex: http://www.yum4dogs.com/uploads/2/8/8/5/2885547/vitamin_and_mineral_assay-genesis_raw_06-19-11.pdf
My only reservation was the vitamin/mineral complex. They do state on their website that all of the vitamins and minerals they use are sourced domestically (US only), but it seems like overkill to me. Thoughts?
Well regardless of how his teeth looked when you got him, dry food would not have cleaned his teeth. How you are feeding him, which he needs particularily since he had a UTI, has done nothing but help him. If hard food cleaned teeth I would be in heaven eating pretzels every night before bed! lol He was probably was busy catching birds and mice before he moved in to your house. I hear they’re good for teeth! 😉
Let me know how the chicken wings and gizzards go if you give it a try. I am going to look into feeding my cats some raw food soon in particular for dental health.
I have to write that I am very cautious as to the treats I feed my guys. That was part of Bobby’s skin problem. Along with feeding canned Pedigree I was feeding bad treats. As soon as I stopped feeding them, his skin quickly improved. No more itchiness, redness, or foul odors! lol Poor little guy. I have been making bisquits here and there for Bobby, other than that I freeze the meat that comes off of the bones when I make the bone broth and use that for treats.
As far as cleaning a cats teeth, I have been lucky and never had any issues. I gently remove any tarter with my finger nails when I do see it.
I asked Shasta a question a few days ago about the raw food she wrote that she fed her cats. She mentioned it on one of the threads recently. We need to track her down and find out what she feeds and how it is working out for her. I wouldn’t mind trying raw meat with the bone, but I am also interested in a cut of meat for teeth cleaning without bone for my older kitty who’s teeth are a little questionable; he just lost one recently. Maybe she would have some recommendations for us.
Yes, Im reading a book called ‘Raw & Natural Nutrition for Dogs’ By Lew Olson, PhD..She recommends a Low-Glycemic diet, high in protein & fat & low Carbohydrates…there are stories through out her book, one is about a dog called Jake a Doberman/Labrador mix, who started to have seizures when he was 3 years old, Jake was whats called a “Cluster” meaning he always had multiple seizures close together, Despite trying everything from conventional medications to acupuncture, his owner Jo was unable to get the seizures under control.. After exhausting all the usual medical avenues, Jo started to look elsewhere for alternative treatments, joining an online Epilepsy group, one of the things recommened by the group was a raw diet. With nothing else left to lose Jo started Jake on a new raw diet, Within five months Jake had gone from having seven seizures every two weeks to one a month, Her vet was astonised at the drastic improvement a raw, fresh food diet had made when all the other treatments failed..There’s more on how she explains how the sugar in carbohydrates can affect epilepsy, hypothyroidism, diabetes, allergies, arthritis, & yeast infections & how a low-glycemic diet is a good defense against all of these conditions.. Dogs dont have a nutritional need for carbohydrates..there’s more to read but too much to write..she has simple recipes in her book for illnesses, its an excellent read, its online for around $10..
Some people here do freeze it and report no issues. A bag doesnt last more than 2 weeks tops here so I have never had to worry. When not feeding raw canned etc it lasts even shorter. I store unopened food in a spare room that has ac in summer.
Thank you Shawna for clarifying Dr Dodds stance on raw diets and hyperthyroidism!!!
Hi all, I posted this in the Editor’s Choice forum as well, but realized it applies to any 5-star kibble:
We have a new dog (1 1/2 year Lab) and need to settle on a quality commercial food. Commercial raw and 5-star canned food is out of our price range. Most kibble is not.
I have been reading in many places that aside from cost and convenience, all things being equal, a quality canned food is probably slightly better for a dog than a quality kibble.
In Canada, there are not many 5-star canned foods in our range. Kirkland Cuts in Gravy is one. We can feed our 60 lb. Lab for under $100.
My question is, aside from convenience (not an issue in our case), does it make sense to go exclusive Kirkland canned versus a 5-star kibble since it is in our price range? What are the points against feeding this particular canned vs. any 5-star kibble? (We are leading towards Acana Regionals).
Of course we can go kibble and canned combined, but aside from price, I am not sure why we would do it?
Anyone willing to offer opinions?
Thanks in advance
Hi all, this is my first post. Great place to hang out!
We have a new dog (1 1/2 year Lab) and need to settle on a quality commercial food. Commercial raw and 5-star canned food is out of our price range. Most kibble is not.
I have been reading in many places that aside from cost and convenience, all things being equal, a quality canned food is probably slightly better for a dog than a quality kibble.
In Canada, there are not many 5-star canned foods in our range. Kirkland Cuts in Gravy is one. We can feed our 60 lb. Lab for under $100.
My question is, aside from convenience (not an issue in our case), does it make sense to go exclusive Kirkland canned versus a 5-star kibble since it is in our price range? What are the points against feeding this particular canned vs. any 5-star kibble? (We are leading towards Acana Regionals).
Of course we can go kibble and canned combined, but aside from price, I am not sure why we would do it?
Anyone willing to offer opinions?
Thanks in advance
Want to know if Greenies are bad for your dog just read these horror stories from pet owners @ http://www.consumeraffairs.com/pets/greenies.html. To me it is unconscionable that vets sell these things in their office.
Please, please always research anything you’re going to give your pets. Even the ratings on their dog food, because quite often they have been recalled in the past and/or have a history of being recalled and/or have questionable ingredients. Play it safe by researching first.
Regarding feeding your pets bones, only feed them raw, never cooked. Cooked bones splinter and can cause intestinal tears. Even if you’ve fed them bones in the past and nothing bad happened, all it takes is one time that can put them at the vets or emergency room. Costing several thousand dollars for surgery, which the majority of us don’t have to spare and end up having to put them asleep.
Hopefully this helps someone before it is to late. Please make sure to pass this information on to any pet owners you know.
Shawna I didn’t read through the entire thread again so my apologies. I only recall you thinking if it was a real problem Dr. Dodds would be warning people about the issue. I didn’t mean to imply Dr Dodds was recommending against all raw feeding, but that she is warning people about the need to be aware of the sourcing of what is being fed.
To clarify — Dr. Dodds is still not recommending “against” raw diets but is certainly warning about feeding an imbalanced raw diet… Something myself, BCnut, HDM and many other raw feeders here completely agree with..
This is what Dr. Dodds says about raw (same article as above).
“The rationale behind the concept of BARF (an acronym for Biologically Appropriate Raw Food) is that this is the type of diets dogs were programmed to eat during their evolutionary development (6). Therefore, the BARF diet represents a biologically-appropriate food for dogs, rather than cooked or processed foods. With a BARF diet, the perfect meal would contain muscle meat, bone, fat, organ meats, vegetable and fruit materials combined in precisely the correct balance, just as nature intended.”
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This reply was modified 11 years, 12 months ago by
Shawna.
You and I remember that conversation slightly differently aimee..
My entire “initial” comment was
“I imagine they would have to eat a lot of thyroids to overdose on iodine that way.? Additionally, if there were truly a risk of hyperthyroid and raw diets I am certain Dr. Dodds would be one of the first to recommend against them.
I don’t think even one of the raw diets I feed contains any thyroid (or gullet). The supplements I use do but not the foods.” /dog-food-reviews/natures-logic-dog-food-dry/#comment-1204301377
Shortly after I posted (this is only a portion of the post)
“Dr. Dodds actually does have an article regarding this study..
“Dr. Peterson’s “Bottom Line”:
In man, community-wide outbreaks of “hamburger thyrotoxicosis,” resulting from inadvertent consumption of ground beef contaminated with bovine thyroid gland, have been previously reported (3,4). These outbreaks resulted in the banning of “gullet trimming,” in which meat in the neck region of slaughtered animals is ground into hamburger……
…..In the dogs of this report, it is obvious that the correct balance was not maintained and a very large amount of raw thyroid gland tissue ended up in their raw meat diet. As is the case with the exogenous L-T4, these natural thyroid hormones are not destroyed by gastric acid and can then be absorbed, leading to high concentration of circulating T4
and clinical sign of hyperthyroidism.” http://drjeandoddspethealthres…” /dog-food-reviews/natures-logic-dog-food-dry/#comment-1204382360
Just found the page Lew olson says, much of the time the problem can be tracted back to carbohydrates, When dogs digest grains, reserves of important bacteria in ur dogs intestines become depleted, causing essential vitamins like vitamin B & K to be passed with the faces, When a dogs eats another dogs stool he may be trying to get back the bacteria & enzymes that are missing in his diet…Carbohydrates are more difficult to digest & may pass thru the dogs system only partially digested this may also make stools more tempting to ur dog. ..So what can u do? add digestive enzyems, beneficical bacteria & a B complex vitamin to the dogs diet may help curb his drive to eat stools, Reducing or eliminating carbs can also produce smaller less “appetizing” stools in which the food is more completely digested. A diet of raw meat & bones on the other hand, produces smaller, drier, & less smelly stools.The fewer grains ur dog eats the more benficial enzymes & bacteria remain avialable to ensure stools are well-formed & almost odorless. Unripe Pineapple & papayas are rich in the enzyems ur dog needs to break down proteins, & the bromelain in pineapple can also help with inflammation & the uptake of other supplements.
If ur dog is on a grain free kibble it may have potatoes which are carbohydrates…. This book ‘Raw & Nutual Nutrition for dogs’ is an excellent read Im learning so much, explaining heaps of health problems & what to feed ur dog.. good easy recipes Raw or cooked..
I posted on this very issue 3 months ago on the Natures Logic thread. A paper was published on this in 2012 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22931400
In response Shawna posted “Additionally, if there were truly a risk of hyperthyroid and raw diets I am certain Dr. Dodds would be one of the first to recommend against them.”
Guess Dr Dodds is now warning people about the issue. Here is a link to her blog on the issue dated 2 /2013
My boy was eating the neighbours cat poo, I was going to put a muzzle on him when he went outside as it was making him ill… I saw a Dog Behavourist & she told me to make sure everytime I was outside I watched him & teach him the words “LEAVE IT”… its easy to teach ‘leave it’ u get a 1 little treat or 1 of his kibbles & put it under ur foot when the dog smells it & goes near the treat u say ‘LEAVE IT’ when the dogs leaves the threat u wait then reward him with the treat thats under ur shoe, that way he cant quickly grab the treat under ur shoe, then when he seems to understand the word LEAVE IT u leave the treat next to ur foot or nearby on floor, same let dog see treat, if he goes to eat it say ‘NO, LEAVE IT’ then when he’s has left the treat wait then give him the treat, once they have learnt the word LEAVE IT when you see them about to eat something yuk u can say leave it. Now my boy leaves poo or any food in the street on our walks…But I did change his food he was always hungry, once he was put on another kibble & I increased to 3 cups the poo eating did stop, Im reading a really good book called ‘Raw & Natural Nutrition for dogs’ by Lew Olson PhD, she explained why some dogs eat poo, now I cant find the page about why & how to fix the problem but I remember her saying their poo isnt digested properly, unprocessed food & the dog can smell food not poop, & dog eats it, Ive read elsewhere to add some pineapple to the dogs food to stop poo eating but I dont know if it works..I’m busy at the moment but tonight I’ll speed read back thru the begining if her book & try to find what Lew Olson says, I remember thinking, she’s was right & that it made sense when I locked back on why my dog was doing it, I look thru her book later,
Well this is a first… Noticed topic on a Greyhound Forum :
“Feeding Raw Foods to your Pets can Cause Hyperthyroidism”
WHAT? I’m sorry. Can you say that again?
Yeah, that was pretty much my reaction when one of the world’s leading veterinarian immunologists, Dr. Jean Dodds of Dr. Jean Dodds’ Hemopet, Petlifeline, Hemolife & Nutriscan, announced that statement.
While attending one of Dr. Dodds’ seminars, we were going over the topic of thyroid dysfunction in pets and the current “epidemic” of hypothyroidism in dogs and hyperthyroidism in older cats going on today. As she went deeper into the subject, she brought up a study involving both raw foods and dogs. The study by Dr. Mark E. Peterson showed that feeding certain raw foods caused a previously unexpected dietary hyperthyroidism effect. While hypothyroidism is a common endocrine disorder in dogs, canine hyperthyroidism is rare.
How could this be? Quicker than the Roadrunner escaping Wile E. Coyote my hand flew up into the air! “How was this possible?” I asked.
Some raw food manufacturers are grinding up the neck of the beef cattle into their mixtures/pet food. Inside that neck is where you find the thyroid glands of the cow. The thyroid tissues are being ground up and mixed into the pet food. This terrible mixture causes dietary hyperthyroidism in dogs.
Moral of the story: It is suggested to make sure that if you’re feeding fresh, raw foods to your pets, be sure to find out if the neck (gullets that still have the esophagus and thyroid attached) of the cattle is included. How do you find out? Contact your local farmer or manufacturer! (Side note: There is no concern in feeding chicken, turkey or duck necks.)
Feeding fresh foods to our pets is always the way to go, but educating ourselves beforehand makes it even better. Knowledge is power.
TParticipant
Coprophagia is normally a juvenile behavior that dogs outgrow. Some dogs may continue into adulthood. The behavior may have different origins, not the least of which is “stomach heat” and inadequate nutrition (i.e. non-species appropriate food, non-fresh food, etc.).
I sound like a broken record, but consider a gradual change to a real food, grain-free, low-carb. diet whether it be cooked or raw food. Add digestive enzymes to meals and use a probiotic for several months.
Damage control/breaking the habit in the short term: Only let the dogs out to eliminate when you are there to supervise. Pick up all feces immediately. If you see the dog start to think about eating a pile, give a “no” command and re-direct their attention so you can pick up the poop. Treat it as a training task much as you would teach “sit” or “stay.”
Hope that helps! By the way, I’m a holistic veterinarian in Phoenix and I have a blog at http://naturalalternativesvet.com/category/blog
I have not tried Divovite yet. I have 2 year old Bullmastiff that has been on Taste of the Wild/Bison pretty much since I rescued him (had him on Blue for about a month, the foster had him on a raw diet for a month and I have no idea what he was eating before)…He seems to be having food allergies, but can’t tie it down to one thing that he is allergic to. When he stays at the sitter’s for more than a day, he comes home licking and rashy. The first time it was small red bumps everywhere including his ears, eyes and jowls…The second time it was hot spots and the dry flaky bumps that others have talked about on this thread. Both times the vet prescribed antibiotics. The first time, he got a steroid shot and some eye and ear cream too…the second time I had to go to the vet twice and the second time he prescribed a second antibiotic and a steroid boosted antihistamine…and said that I could give my dog up to 15 Benadryl a day for the rest of his life. I agree with all of you that think that meds for life is ridiculous. I don’t think I want to go raw with his diet either. I am willing to try Dinovite, it isn’t that expensive for a 90 day supply (for my 120lb bully, $1 per day)…
I want to add this though- those concerned about diatamaceous earth need to do more research on it. I’ve used it several times all by itself to kill fleas. Non-food quality is used in pool and hot tub filters, food quality is used by farmers in their livestock foods to help fight intestinal parasites because it is actually crushed shells and corals and it cuts the parasites skin and causes them to dehydrate. Many sites will recommend it all by itself as a treatment to your pet’s coat to fight fleas and you can add it to food by itself for the same reasons farmers use it. I’ve never heard it being referred to as a “binder.” And to the post talking about the ingredients to the solvents and poisons including H2O, RIGHT ON man!!!! People are so worried about “chemicals” they can’t pronounce, but most people would not have any issues eating an egg…well you know eggs are chemicals and if you looked at the chemical make-up of an all natural egg, you wouldn’t be able to pronounce them either (Ovalbumin, Conalbumin, Ovamucoid, Ovomucin, Lysozyme, Avidin, Ovoglobulin, Ovoinhibitor) and that is just for the whites of the eggs….
Dori,
We aren’t sure. He started with ear infections, again, a year ago. We honestly have no idea what started them back up, after being free of them for almost seven years. I didn’t want him on raw again, simply due to money but after being fine on NB lid sweet potato & fish, he got another one. My holistic vet suggested stopping all supplements & said since his ear infections were yeast, she worried about fruits & veggies (sugar can feed yeast). So, back to ground raw for him.
Thanks for extending such a gracious welcome to me after joining the forum and encouraging me to take the leap to go raw. I look forward to the sharing of tips and information among “dog people”.
Dchassett, how did the liver test turn out for your Maltese? Hope all is fine.
Debbie
Anybody know what are the cheapest dry food that has zero or has only 1-2 minor red items? I don’t really mind low protein % since my dog gets plenty of protein in his raw meat meals.
Hi all! 🙂 I wanted to know, do any of you raw feeders feed the whole prey rabbits or cavies? I would like to try one with Bailey sometime, but the whole prey quail didn’t go over so well, so I’m unsure if she would eat it or just look at it and walk away. How long did it take your dog to get used to it or did they dig right in? I just ordered some of the rabbit feet, and she’s eating those, although it took a little bit for the first one.
Hi Shasta
Yes, just til it’s white. Try putting 1/2 inch of water in the bottom of a pan and bring it to a boil. Place however many eggs in there that you want to cook, and put the lid on it. Leave it for 3-4 minutes then run cold water over the eggs. Crack open and feed as soon as they are cool enough.
Hi Naturella
One a week would be rare enough and yet still a good amount of raw egg for the benefits of raw for a dog Bruno’s size.
Here is a link from Dogs Naturally: http://www.dogsnaturallymagazine.com/feeding-your-dog-raw-eggs-good-or-bad/
The above article pretty much agrees with what the nut expressed earlier. (small n, Patty :))
Don’t mean to repeat what everyone has said so far, just want to comment so I can follow the thread. I have a Rat Terrier mix and he is a little over 1 year old, and has been on 11+ different kibbles so far. Variety is essential so you can look for good quality protein (from meat or meat meal), and good brands, and rotate flavors and brands. I think I’m not doing it quite perfectly, as I choose a brand, then rotate all flavors I am willing to feed within that brand, then I switch brands. I think you should alternate brands and flavors between bags and go back and forth between brands if need be. Mixing kibble with canned and raw is also a great idea. Definitely avoid the Science Diet and low protein. Good affordable kibbles that I have fed are Victor Grain Free, Earthborn Holistic Grain Free, Vets Choice Holistic Health Extension (protein is below 30% though), and Dr. Tim’s. All have manageable kibble size for small dogs (Dr. Tim’s is the biggest of those listed, and Victor is the smallest). Good luck!
Oh, and when transitioning from one kibble to the next, you can add some plain pumpkin puree or yoghurt/kefir, or canned to make the transition easier on their tummies. For canned I currently use Nutro Ultra and Nutro Max.
I usially give Bruno one raw egg/week, scrambled up and mixed with his kibble. Would that be “rare” enough to not have to cook the white part? I could do it though, if need be.
I no longer trust them to feed any more unless I have manufactured myself from my own free range cattle. Unfortunately it ususally ends up being the processing plants and equipment at fault, i.e., machines which are not properly or regularly cleaned, foreign objects in the processing equipment, etc. I am learning that one cannot be too careful. I have feed ORIJEN for years; it is a high quality dog food and manufactured on site. I also feed PRIMAL RAW. the ONLY treats my dogs are allowed are dried sweet potato and prior to this – bullies – I use Primal because it is fit for human consumption as is Orijen…this is a scary time and one cannot be too careful. I am still seeing dark green stools today so I know whatever this is still trying to move through their systems. Today I add Probiotic. The store which sold me this bully is the best store in this part of the state regarding quality but this proves anything can happen. Diligence and more diligence. I don’t think your problem is the Orijen but did you mix it with the other food to introduce slowly? Are you feeding Six fish or meat? I have seen some rumblings about Arcana this week….on Susan Thixton’s site.
Okay, friend in California — let’s call her T.. T rotates (you know me and rotation) between the Preference and Steve’s and adds raw antelope, buffalo, beef etc. These are all no bone in commercial products she gets from a local puppy boutique in her area.
The premix she was using (that he dog was reacting to) is called NDF2. Just realized it has wheat brand and germ too. For some reason I was just remember the oats??? http://www.volharddognutrition.com/natural-diet-foundation-2/natural-diet-foundation-2.html She had heard about the diet on a Yahoo group and a premix was appealing to her so she could rotate the meat. But she wasn’t rotating the NDF at all.
She feeds raw green tripe once a week, fasts the dogs once a week and makes her own kefir using raw milk and kefir grains (it is legal to buy raw milk in California). She feeds a REALLY good diet. After reading a previous post about some of the other symptoms you are seeing in Hannah however, I highly doubt the elevated liver values are due to detoxing like was the case in T’s dog.
If it ends up being the liver you might want to look in to Dr. Dodds liver diet using white fish and potato. White fish creates less ammonia which in turn is less stressful for the liver as it is the liver that has to convert the ammonia to urea. There are also supplements that can be considered — such as Sam-e and milk thistle in therapeutic doses, Standard Process Hepatic Support and so on. I have a contact at SP that can help with product recommendations if wanting to go that route.
You might want to also consider a phone consult with a nutritionist or a holistic vet once you have an official diagnosis. Treating cushings will be somewhat different than treating liver cancer. Mary Straus, Dr. Becker, Dr. Dodds, Naturopathic Vets Dr. Jeannie Thomason or Kim Bloomer, Dr. Peter Dobias, Dr. Christina Chambreau, Dr. Martin Goldstein, Dr. Barbara Royal (Darwins) etc might be some to consider speaking with. Jacqueline at Answer’s might have suggestions for diet or vets to speak with too? I could contact her on your behalf. I’m guessing you’ve already determined the diet for cushings can be high protein, lower fat/purines and carb.
Dr. Becker has several video/articles on cushings if that is the diagnosis or if you want to get info early before a definitive diagnosis. She talks about typical and a-typical cushings as well as causes (she, and others, feel early spaying can cause a-typical as an example) and dietary prevention (which you were doing by feeding lower carb, moisture rich.
I won’t swear by my spelling, but here is the scoop on eggs. Raw egg white has a substance called avidin(that’s the spelling?) that binds with biotin so the dog can’t use the biotin in it’s diet. However, there are other very good things in raw egg. Heat deactivates the avidin. So the key is to give raw eggs sometimes, but not all the time. The rest of the time you want the white lightly cooked but the yolk as untouched as possible. Seperating out the white and cooking it by itself is the best method, but a pain in the neck. Soft boiling is probably second, but that still heats the yolk too much to be doing no damage to the heat sensitive stuff in the yolk. Next, would be sunny side up for doing the least damage.
I’ve always read that they must be cooked, I’d Google “are raw eggs bad for a dog”…I wish Patch was a healthy dog & could eat anything like my last girl, Kibble is so much easier then cooking.. I just did his chicken & Butternut Pumkin it took me 1 hour, thats cooking then putting in freezer bags, but now Im right for a fortnight..I boil his egg every second day as he’s on half a egg cause he’s a small the medium size..Im making him Gluten free Banana & Honey cookies tomorrow, a recipe I got of the net then if they turn out good, Im going to make up little packets of 10 cookies for $5 to sell at the Dog park.. I might make some with normal Flour for the normal dogs & the Gluten free for the dogs that cant have wheat..
I’m not sure what the calcium content in their food is, I’d have to look. Seems like shells are around 40-50% calcium, right?
Is there a hazard of feeding raw eggs, or should I rather say – benefit of lightly cooked?
And my dogs don’t get many bones currently. We don’t have access to a good affordable butcher, and my dad didn’t go hunting this year, so the dogs only get occasional leftover (raw, yes) poultry bones. Cassy (dog who eats shells) doesn’t even get the bones, the boyz beat her to em.
Sue, they’re on kibble :/ dang I would love to get to home made, but as I’ve said – I don’t have the funds, resources, or space for it. One day though!
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This reply was modified 11 years, 12 months ago by
Shasta220.
This book Im reading Raw & Nutural Nutrition for dogs by Lew Olson PhD, she recommends to boil the eggs, leave egg shells on a tray in warm place over night, then ground up.. If ur feeding Raw Meaty Bones they are a great source of calcium, they wont need the extra calcuim if their diet is raw, But if ur dogs aren’t on a Raw diet then..half a teaspoon of grounded egg shells sprinked on meal..Im doing this at the moment grounded up the egg shells & putting in spice jar..
I don’t let my dogs kiss me for about 30 minutes after they have eaten raw.
Since it’s springtime and we have chickens/ducks, there is a surplus of eggs. Currently, each dog gets one raw egg daily (40-70lbs), and Cassy (the 70lb old lab) eats the shell as well.
Would it be safe to give one or two of them an extra egg daily? Should I try to incorporate the shell for all 3 dogs, just let them eat if they want (right now, only Cassy likes to eat the shell), or toss the shells in the garden?
They also get about 1/2-1tbsp coconut oil and a little bit of sardine oil (just the human soft gels. They get 1-3) 4-5 days a week.
Hi Deborah H. and welcome. If you are all things dog obsessed than boy have you come to the right place. I’ve got three little ones and they are my babies. One has lots of issues, the one has none other than being totally obsessed with playing fetch, and my older girl I’m just yesterday and today dealing with liver issues (14 1/2 year old Maltese). Waiting for results of tests done this morning. Your question on THK. Yes it was on March 2014 list and it’s not on April 2014 list. We don’t know why it was taken off. A few of us have been discussing this and we are waiting for some feed back from Dr. Mike or HDM.
I’m glad you’re thinking about incorporating a raw diet or at least freeze dried diet for one of their daily meals. There are some home cooked raw feeders here on this site and I’m sure they’ll chime in and steer you in the right direction if home cooking is what you’d like to do. NO, you do not have to stop getting doggie kisses because you feed raw. Just make sure that YOU wash your hands, counter and anything else that touched the raw food thoroughly. Just as you would do when doing your own cooking for you and your family with raw meats and fishes. The more you incorporate and rotate raw and freeze dried foods in your dogs diets the healthier they will become. A healthy dog is more able to deal with minor issues in foods than one with an unhealthy gut. It’s the humans that have to be really careful with foods containing Salmonella and such more so than a healthy dog. You’ll be amazed at the changes that take place when you incorporate raw to their diets. Changes that you didn’t even know weren’t as they should be.
Welcome to our obsessed world. I’m about as obsessed a person can be about my girls, short of being locked up in some institution some where. Even then, they’d have to let me take my dogs, get me a freezer, their supplements, their beds, their toys, all their grooming supplies, shampoos, their special stainless steel bowls, etc. I think you get a picture of me now! SO SO TOTALLY OBSESSED AM I! AND I LOVE IT! It’s the only way to be. In my world, anyway!!!! 🙂 🙂 🙂
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This reply was modified 11 years, 12 months ago by
Dori.
Have I missed something (I just joined today, April 8th)? The Honest Kitchen was mentioned in this forum as being on the Editor’s Choice list, but I do not see it. Was it removed recently?
I am interested in incorporating at least one raw (or freeze-dried raw) meal each day for my eight-year-old Havanese. There aren’t many raw foods that made this prestigious list.
Any suggestions? I am a little nervous to go raw. Does one have to stop letting their dog give humans “kisses” if they eat a raw diet?
Thanks! It’s great to be among those that (maybe) obsess about their dog’s health as much as I do!
Debbie
Hi Shawna. Thanks so much for seeing my post and responding.
All four of Hannah’s liver values was sky high. Last year at this time of year for her physical only one value was high and that was only 1 or 2 points over the high normal so they didn’t mention it because they didn’t think it was any big deal. This year is total different. This year is also when I switched all the girls to all commercial raw for ever meal. I was occasionally rotating in THK Zeal and/or Preference. Katie developed intolerance to alfalfa so I stopped THK. (Katie is the poop eater and though I’m vigilant about being the human pooper scooper, if I’m out and my husband just opens the door and lets them out in the yard. Doesn’t pick up after them. Too be fair, he has macular degeneration pretty bad and probably really doesn’t see it too pick up). Their diet has been Answers, Darwins, Stella & Chewy’s, Primal Pronto, Vital Essentials. As you know all very high proteins, higher in fats than I would like but they all seem to be that way. I did try Natures Variety for a bit but I didn’t like anything about it so that was just one bag between the three of them.
Your friend in California. Does she only rotate between Honest Kitchen Preference and Steve Brown’s Dinner Mix and if so, what proteins, fruits and veggies does she add? Did she ever go back to any raw meals solely or always the pre mixes with protein. Why Premix with oats? Do you know what brand or what it is?
Yesterday was a really really bad day for me. I tried keeping myself together while Hannah was around but I was near hysterical and stressed beyond belief yesterday. If I wasn’t crying I was shaking. I spent almost all day on the computer yesterday trying to digest as much info as I could. The more I read the more nervous I got. I dropped Hannah off this morning (after fasting 12 hours) and just picked her up. They’ll have results back tomorrow afternoon. They were just checking liver at today. They did not want to test for Cushings today because they felt that we needed to take one step at a time. All four doctors in the practice spoke with me today and explained that the Cushing’s test needs to be given medication first (steroids???), and because of the fasting then feeding fatty food and then rest and retesting for the liver test that felt that would interfere with true bloodwork for Cushing’s test and wouldn’t be accurate. Sounds logical. So one step at a time. Depending what they find with results of tests for both liver and Cushing’s they’ll do a liver ultrasound. Best case scenario it’s something that they can reverse levels with food and Sam-E type prescription product. Worse case scenario could be tumor or cancer of the liver. At her age it would be a matter of keeping her comfortable. She’s certainly too old for surgery, chemo, radiation or anything else that goes along with it.
They did tell me no more rabies vaccines for her (unfortunately she had one on Friday during her yearly physical) and definitely no more HW preventative, Sentinel, for her either.
So I’m interested in knowing more about your friend in California and what she fed along with the premixes. That’s the one thing I want to work on immediately. I certainly don’t want to have to put her on one of their prescribed foods so I’m trying to get a jump on getting and ordering whatever I need to change her diet to. This has come as a shock to me. All the issues with her I could justify with other problems she has like loss of hair would be hypothyroid. No jumping on furniture and trembling loss of hind leg muscles and weakness I attributed it to mid spine degenerated discs. One thing I do know is that she is drinking enormous amounts of water.
I’d appreciate any guidance you can give me.
Yeah, I was just thinking about that, is it possible he likes my dog more than he likes me? lol. What about leftovers for me? He does adore Bobby and he’s one of Bobby’s favorite people; he has four favorites. Every morning he trots over to his house and returns with a bisquit. I am lucky to live next door to a neighbor that loves Bobby probably almost as much as I do. My mother was ill and hospitalized for five days just before New Year’s eve this year. I called him from the hospital late in the evening to ask if he could feed and let Bobby out because I didn’t know when or if I would be getting home. He didn’t hesitate to say yes and even kept him at his house until I got home.
I like his litter box designs. Some of the openings looked narrow and long to me, but I understand his thought behind the opening shapes. I think I like the size of the opening on catinfo’s better (it’s worked well for my cats). But, his are good to keep in mind because you never know when a design might need to be tweeked for some reason. I also like leaving the top rim of the box intact (catinfos design). My thought would be for better support to keep the box square. Idk Also, I know on catinfo she mentions different theories on where you might want to put an opening (long or short side). I put the opening on the short side of the first box because of where I was putting it and it hasn’t caused any problems, such as litter getting scattered. On the second one I put the opening on the long side. My cats don’t seem to have a preference. I really feel they are just in awe of all the space they have inside. They actually look more interested in using the litter box. lol It’s funny to watch them the first few times because they almost seem overwhelmed by all the possibilities of where they can dig their hole.
I am going to look into the mats he suggested. I just put an old car mat outside of the one in the basement.
I also checked out the prices of the litter he suggested, the chicken layer feed, very interesting. I can still get clumping unscented TSC litter a few pennies cheaper/lbs, but I might give it a try this summer on the porch just to see how it works. I already planned on trying corn pellets from TSC as litter; it is 40 lbs/$7.00. I started using corn pellets for my horses this winter. I don’t use stalls but during inclimate weather they do urinate in a specific spot in their run-in. I previously used wood shavings which was a pain because I couldn’t put it in the regular manure pile. The people that pick up my manure for composting won’t take it if there is anything other than straw, hay, or manure in it.
Later on tonight I am going to look at the website again to see what other info I can find. It looks like a handy site. Thanks again. Oh, and the tote box from Wal-Mart is a Sterilite and was $20, maybe a little more. So, if your Wal-Mart doesn’t have it, maybe you can track one down from their website.
Hey Dori,
I didn’t read through all the posts so I don’t know what all was said. And I don’t know which liver values were high but I have an interesting story.
My girlfriend in California has five toy breed dogs (your babies remind me of hers). I’ll have to show you a picture of them privately some time… Anywho, she has fed raw to her dogs as long as I’ve known her (but she added a premix with oats in it). None of her dogs had any typical allergy symptoms but I convinced her to switch to The Honest Kitchen Preference in rotation with Steve Brown’s Dinner Premix. Shortly after doing it she took one of her babies to the vet and her liver enzymes were through the roof. I have a copy of her blood work in my email if I can find it. She discussed changes that had been made with her vet and her vet told her to stay the course with the new diet. Her vet, by the way, is Dr. Jean Dodds… 🙂
Although her liver enzymes were crazy high pup started having changes for the positive — mostly behavioral. She came out of her shell in a REALLY big way.. My friend would report to me almost on a daily basis new things that her baby was doing — jumped on the couch for the first time ever. Slept in bed with us instead of isolating herself in the doggy bed etc. After three or four months and a world of positive changes her liver enzymes finally came down again…
My point, don’t freak out cause it doesn’t always mean something bad. It could be a BIG detox. If it is something like cushings then it can be addressed when it is confirmed. It is important that you stay calm for her sake though as she will be able to pick up on your stress and fear (when I learned of Audrey’s diagnosis I made it a point to only break down when I wasn’t around her). Dr. Becker has a couple good articles on cushings. Dr. Dodds gave another friend of mine some data on cushings that could be helpful if needed. I can contact her on your behalf.
Mountainhound: you’re describing Loki almost perfectly!!!!! I started him on a prong as well (his first trainer, like I say, was way more about the correction than the praise). It’s difficult to correct, because when I tugged on the prong when he was in such an anxious mode, it made him turn and bite me – HARD (I had a ring of swollen bruises around my leg)
The gentle lead helped a lot, as a squeeze around the nose is much less “alarming” than a prong, but equally as controlling. I tried a slip lead one time (he wasn’t even around dogs). Pfffffft, never again. I’m completely convinced that dogs want to pull against tightening sensations around that dang neck lol!
It’s hard to tell where his reactivity zone is. It depends on /everything/ from the environment, to the dog, to his “momentum” and the dog’s speed as well. He is always very scared though. In our second class (positive reinforcement), he was on free time (laying down) and I allowed him to near a cocker puppy. The pup was crawling toward him, and he toward it. He acted calm and relaxed, but then randomly stretched out and snapped at it :/
Usually he will get stiff if he even sees a dog across the street. What I do is (try to) get him to sit and “watch” me. When he’s focused on me for a few moments, then I click and reward.
He tends to be a lot better when he’s sitting/laying. When he walks, it gets him even more tensed up and it gets hard to redirect that focus.
I’ll look into that harness for sure. Ive never used them since it’s harder to keep the perfect heel going that I like (ear level or behind my waist….if he’s any forward, then he tenses up even more. When he stays there, then it makes him a touch more calm)
2 months, 1 week ago
