[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi Marmaduke –

I love Carlson’s products – I think they make some of the highest quality fish oils. I give my dogs their cod liver oil a few times a week for extra vitamin d – I wouldn’t feed most cod liver oils due to excessive vitamin a and Carlson’s is the only one I’ve found without excessive levels.

I get my meat from several sources. I do buy meat from the grocery store on occasion (Be VERY careful with buying fish – depending on the type of fish and where it came from it could have salmon poisoning. I personally don’t feed raw fish very often – occasionally raw sardines, but that’s it.), I occasionally order from hare-today.com and mypetcarnivore.com (I can get a lot of difficult to find offal from these places), I get unwanted parts (usually offal and bones) from hunters (I actually got my dad to give me a whole deer this year 😉 ) – but mostly I get meat delivered from a wholesale distributor. I order shipments of 300 lbs. at a time from a wholesaler that also sells to grocery stores, restaurants and caters to large dog kennels – I can get a lot of the stuff I need (chicken backs, turkey necks, hearts, gizzards, livers, ground beef, etc.) for about half of what I’d pay in the grocery store. The only downside to buying in bulk is everything just comes in huge 40 lb. boxes – I have to divide it all up myself, but it’s worth it considering how much money I save.

To answer your question about offal – offal i very high in protein, about the same amount if not more than muscle meat. Organ meat should only constitute 10% of your dogs’ diet – 5% should be liver and 5% should be other offal. Organ meat is VERY nutrient-dense – it’s necessary to feed in order to provide adequate amounts of certain vitamins and minerals but it’s easy to go overboard. Many of the vitamins and minerals found in organ meat, while necessary in small amounts, can be toxic if fed in large amounts. For example, liver is extremely high in vitamin a – vitamin a is a fat soluble vitamin so extremely high levels fed over an extended period of time can cause toxicity. Remember green tripe, heart and gizzards are NOT organ meat – a lot of people think these things are organ meat, but they’re not and the amount fed of these things doesn’t have to be restricted (like it does with true organ meat). The things that would count toward your dogs’ 10% organ meat would be: liver, kidneys, lungs, pancreas, spleen and brain.

I wouldn’t be too upset that you can’t get Darwin’s or other pre-made raw foods – homemade is much higher quality, more customizable and you can feed more variety. It is time-consuming to make food from scratch, but I’ve gotten to where I think it’s fun to formulate new menus – I would get bored feeding pre-made. If you check out this link you’ll be able to see some typical menus for my crew of three bloodhounds:

/forums/topic/menus/

[marmaduke]

Thanks Hound Dog Mom!!

I have sourced frozen beef offal (liver, kidneys, heart liver etc.) from a local butcher and he said that he will save me the beef necks from his kill days, I have also ordered the Dr. Mercola Digestive Enzymes for Pets (until I can get some fresh or frozen green tripe) and have started the boys on the Carlson’s Very Finest Fish Oil and a Vitamin E supplement @ 400UI per day, I have also sourced frozen raw chicken backs, necks and pkgs of chicken hearts, gizzards, liver…based on my previous menu with the veggie/fruit slop and the ground raw chicken with bones…what would you suggest for a menu? Do you buy ground beef and fish from the grocery store?

Does the beef offal on it’s own provide enough protein or does it have to be mixed with a meat source?

I live in Ontario Canada so the products like Darwin’s Naturals are pretty much out of the question as they are only in the States…

I really want to keep my Goldens on a RAW diet as I feel it is a much healthier diet for them compared to the store bought kibbles and even the “premium” brands providing I can provide them with the nutrition they require to be a healthy happy animal (they are pretty healthy and happy now, but I worry about not feeding them correctly)…

Thanks for all your advice…

Duke

[Melissaandcrew]

HI Marie-

A few things-Rescues often have nasty dry or oily skin/coat until they have been on a better diet for a few months-sometimes they even blow coat and start to look naked.. But, once the coat starts to regrow, its usually a healthy coat. Dogs with dental disease often rub at their faces because of the rotting teeth which of course hurt. Poor girlie.

Once her mouth heals(usually 10-14 days) you can add dry in, but soak it a bit. Most actually can eat the kibble once the pain is gone. I have two rescue with no teeth and they not only eat dry, but one still “chews” a rawhide bone : )

The bathing should help the dry skin as the groomer will(should) use a heavy conditioner, but one treatment may not be enough to remove all the dry skin. I find that briskly rubbing them helps to move the dry skin into the hair, and then frequent brushing(soft bristle brush) removes the dead skin cells from the coat. We also supplement these ones with fish oil etc, but that helps control further issues, but does not resolve the current one-

[Hound Dog Mom]

Marmaduke –

I give my dogs 1 tsp. of an animal based omega 3 (sardine oil or anchovy oil generally) and 1 tsp. of a plant based fat (flax, evening primrose, borage or sometimes sprouted chia or coconut oil). I split 2-400 i.u. vitamin e capsules between the three of them – so that would be about 267 i.u. each per day. For a large dog anywhere between 100 and 400 i.u. per day should be adequate, however I wouldn’t go over 400 i.u. per day. I have large dogs, since you have golden retrievers that are probably around the same size as mine these doses should be fine for your dogs.

[Anonymous]

thank you for the input! My pom did not get sick from her food. One incident I think was too many rawhides at a friends house and another was frosty paws treats. So I am VERY careful now what I feed her.

I think I’ve chosen to go with the Acana brand. They have a high rating and I like what they have to say about the source of their ingredients. But no one in my area carries the small breed or light and trim choice. I bought a bag of the grasslands variety and will slowly work it into her diet. She seemed to like the Acana last night. She picked out the few pieces that were in her bowl and ate those first!

I’m eager to see if there are improvements in her weight and energy!!

[pugmomsandy]

mspaulypompom,

What food(s) did you try that resulted in bad diarrhea? How much were you feeding as compared to what you were previously feeding? Do you go by calories? Or were you feeding the same amount of previous food as you were the new foods? Has your pom been eating a variety of foods or just mostly one kind most of her life? And what has she been eating and how much? Have you used any probiotics or other digestive aids (canned pumpkin, digestive enzymes, yogurt, raw goat milk)?

I have lap dogs. They do absolutely nothing but follow me around! But they eat foods that have at least 30% protein and moderate fat. This includes kibble, canned, raw, freeze dried and dehydrated. They are able to maintain a steady weight but more importantly, they maintain a good body condition score. Keep in mind pugs are short, cobby, thick dogs, but they still have an abdominal tuck, a tapered waist viewed from above and not much fat pad. They will never look like a greyhound but for pugs they are in great shape. Weight is not everything. In fact mine are overweight to obese if you just look at the number (24 lbs). I’ve recently put some photos in the Dog Food Calculator section while discussing weight loss and body condition with another poster in December. Check them out. They’ve actually gained weight and muscle mass on this type of diet. These are my overweight pugs: (click on the photo)

http://i1326.photobucket.com/albums/u651/pugmomsandy/pictures%20for%20posting/IMG_2852640x539_zps1c019b19.jpg

http://i1326.photobucket.com/albums/u651/pugmomsandy/pictures%20for%20posting/plutoharness2_zps6d5c006c.jpg

I didn’t know about probiotics and digestive enzymes a couple years ago when I went to a grain free high protein food so one of mine took maybe 2 months to transition. Had soft poop but no diarrhea. But now that I’ve been using probiotics and enzymes (periodically still) they are able to eat anything and have formed stool. Their gut has become healthier over time and they are able to eat a variety of foods as they should. I also feed less volume of a mod/high protein food. On their old food, they would’ve needed 1 cup to 1.25 cups but right now they only get 2/3 cup. Overfeeding a mod/high protein food can be another reason for poor stools (that and a not healthy gut) or transitioning too fast. If they have undesirable stool, cut back the amount of new food until they firm up. No need to transtition a dog in a week or 10 days.

Also you can start your pom on a moderate protein grain free diet instead of going high protein off the bat like EVO. I’ll use Nutrisource Heartland Select and Grain Free Lamb Meal as examples. They are 25% and 28% protein and my fosters eat it and only take a week to transition to it cold turkey. No diarrhea, just some soft stools initially. I also give them ground psyllium in the beginning. And I have no idea what the fosters have been eating their entire life before coming to my house.

As far as more energy goes, I like to think of it as more vitality.

[pugmomsandy]

Marmaduke,

I give krill oil capsule or a raw whole sardine.

http://i1326.photobucket.com/albums/u651/pugmomsandy/pictures%20for%20posting/IMG_60801024x821_zpsad7d39eb.jpg

HoundDogMom has the E dosage in the Raw Menus thread I think.

[marmaduke]

What do you feed for an animal based Omega 3 and vitamin E supplement? I was going to give the boys an Omega 3 fish oil with vitamin E gel cap with their meals…how much to give them? I have read that for a 50lb dog, approx. 400-500 UI or 350mg per day…

Also, what do you give for fish as a protein instead of chicken?

Thanks

[Hound Dog Mom]

Check out the raw food thread. All three of my bloodhounds – ages 7 yrs, 2 yrs, and 6 mos. – are on a homemade raw diet. I have several of my recipes posted in the forum and there are also some links to some informative websites and some reading suggestions from myself and others.

[Mom2Cavs]

I would second HDM….The Honest Kitchen is a “wet” diet after it’s hydrated and I think its ingredients are stellar! I would use it, but my crew just doesn’t like the “garlicy” smell of it. Like I said before, I use canned and freeze dried raw that’s been rehydrated for extra moisture.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi risuchan –

If the two foods you are considering are The Honest Kitchen and Flint River Ranch I would DEFINITELY go with The Honest Kitchen. THK is one of only two pet foods that are certified human-grade and it’s minimally processed (much more species-appropriate than kibble). I fed two of my dogs a rotation of Love, Zeal, Embark and Thrive for about 6 months before switching them to a raw diet – it’s a great food. FRR is mediocre and incredibly overpriced for what it is – with FRR you’re paying a premium price for a mid-grade food, THK is expensive too but at least with THK you get what you pay for.

[Mom2Cavs]

First, let me say that I’m not a vet. But, I would suggest a visit to your vet to determine the type of crystals and to see if there is an infection present. There are different types of crystals and treatments vary. Struvite crystals seem to form if there is an infection, but Oxalate crystals are a different matter. There are also other types. One thing is certain, though, and that a dog that is prone to uti’s or crytals needs lots of moisture in the diet. Moisture is actually good in any animal’s diet, imho. If I were you, after speaking to my vet, I would check into 4-5 star, high quality foods. Whether you feed all canned, regular raw or freeze dried raw that’s been rehydrated, or kibble topped with wet food of sime kind (either of the above mentioned or wholesome people food) moisture is necessary to help flush out the kidneys. If you feed only kibble, then I would still add water or no-sodium/low-sodium broth to it. There are also supplements that might help with urinary issues like cranberry, vit. C, omega 3’s etc. Again, I would ask your vet for recommendations. There are also regular posters here that have had dogs with kidney issues from birth that may post with some great suggestions. Good luck to you and I hope this helps!

[Anonymous]

Butch, who had the strange thing come on him like the hemolytic anemia but was according to vet possibly autoimmune disease, is doing so well now. At first all he wanted was his the Billinghurst’s diet BARF, he had eaten for 2 years. Now he acts like he doesn’t like it. I have tried Nature’s Variety raw, the chicken, and he loved. I also wanted to know what you all thought of the raw’s available to me at pet store, Nature’s Variety, Bravo, Primal and Stella and Chewy’s. I also feed a back up dry, Optimal Performance or Epigen from Wysong to help with the cost of raw. Thank you for any advice. Beth

[Hound Dog Mom]

There’s no reason you can’t mix proteins. However I prefer to serve only one protein at each meal, then the dogs aren’t getting exposed to the same ingredients at every meal and their bodies can have a break from certain foods.

[marmaduke]

We are NOT cooking the veggie/fruit mixture….the RAWR diet book that we have been following does not say to cook the mixture…we do puree it in a food processor though.

I can also get a beef dog food mix from the same butcher as the green tripe…I beleive it is a mixture of beef “parts”…

Can the chicken and beef be mixed together? Right now they get 1 cup of chicken per serving twice a day…can we do 1/2 cup f the beef and 1/2 cup of the chicken or would that be a cross contamination? Would it be better to feed a serving of chicken and a serving of beef?

Thanks

[Hound Dog Mom]

Marmaduke –

Are you cooking the fruit/veggie mix? Dogs don’t produce cellulase (the enzyme required to digest the cellulose in the plant material) so fruits/vegetables should be cooked and pureed in order to break down the cellulose. There’s no trick to preparing green tripe, you jut feed it. Tripe has a naturally balanced calcium to phosphorus ratio of 1:1 so you can feed as much as you want. I think feeding your chicken mix as one meal and tripe as the other would be a good idea.

[marmaduke]

Ok, did some research and I do beleive that the lack of digestive enzymes is probably the main cause of the gas and stool munching. 😛 I have seen some undigested “slop” in their stools as well, which leads me to beleive that they are not processing their food completely.

I have sourced some green tripe from a local butcher who kills beef…I can purchase 20lbs for $10…I cannot find how much to give them per feeding though…the only thing I have been able to find is an approximation of 5-10% of their protein weight per serving. Any thoughts or suggestion on how much green tripe to feed them? Also, is there any trick to preparing the tripe?

There are a couple of products on the market that I have found that are enzyme supplements…Dr. Mercola Digestive Enzymes and another is Prozyme All Natural Enzyme Suupplement. The 1st seems like it is more animal based (Betaine HCl, Ox Bile Extract, Bromelain (pineapple), Papain (papaya), Pancreatin which includes Protease, Mylase and Lipase) and the 2nd is plant based looking at the ingredients (Lactose, Aspergillus oryzae fermentation product dehydrated, Aspergillus niger fermentation product, dehydrated, pineapples (stem,fruit).

We do include Pineapple in their “slop” mixture, but I guess it does not fully constitute the lack of digestive enzymes that they need.

Thoughts?

[aimee]

Hi Matt
Like others I think most people who want to feed a vegetarian diet to their dog do so because they themselves are vegetarian. I do though recall vegetarian diets sometimes being rec. for Dalmatians to prevent stone formation. My own dog was raised on a meatless diet because of a liver condition.

Dogs do not have any requirements that can not be met by plants so it is possible to have a dog be a vegetarian and thrive. By blending plant proteins there is no reason why the full AA complement can not be met. BUT where my concern comes in is are the commercial vegetarian diets always adequate?? Is the dog getting out of the diet what it needs to? Considering that not to long ago there was a problems found with lamb and rice diets leading to heart problems, I always keep in the back of my mind that what a dog gets out of a diet may not be what we think it does. That applies to all diets, not just vegetarian diets but there is less margin for error in a vegetarian diet.

As far as your customers, if you advocate against vegetarian foods they may just go elsewhere so as to “avoid the lecture”. If this is what they have chosen then it may be best for you to advise them how they can best do it, just as you would advise someone how to feed a raw diet properly instead of saying “don’t feed raw”. For me that means rotating companies and protein sources often so that if one company diet is deficient the others may make up for it. Advise them to use diets made by large companies with nutritionists on staff, that do feeding trials (Purina, Royal Canin), vs a small company with “a vision”. Inquire if they are looking for vegan vs vegetarian. ( Is a diet that is based in egg /dairy acceptable in their rotation?) JMO but I think your customers would be better served by sharing concerns and helping them make good choices vs just advising against a vegetarian diet.

[Mike Sagman]

Hi Marmaduke,

You may want to check out this video posted by Dr. Karen Becker for some answers to your dog’s problem. Hope this helps.

[pugmomsandy]

More probiotics and digestive enzymes and maybe your butcher can get you some green tripe.

http://www.dogsnaturallymagazine.com/the-stink-on-tripe/

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi Marmaduke –

The first thing I would recommend is having the dog checked by the vet – occasionally stool eating can be due to intestinal malabsorption or intestinal parasites. If medical causes are ruled out I’d supplement with a quality enzyme and probiotic supplement. Some dogs don’t secrete enough enzymes naturally so they consume feces because feces are rich in enzymes – although enzyme deficiencies are more common when dogs are on processed food diets. Enzymes can help with gas as well. You could look into a supplemental stool eating deterrent – but check the label as most contain MSG. The other thing I wanted to point out is that you should not be feeding only chicken – this is not enough variety and your dogs will not be getting all the nutrients they need. Ideally, an even mix of red meat and poultry should be fed. At the very least I’d recommend alternating chicken with beef but the more different meats you can feed the better. While flax is a good addition to poultry based meals, you need an animal-based omega 3 as dogs don’t convert plant-based omega 3’s to DHA very efficiently. Lastly you need to add some vitamin e – this diet provides no vitamin e. Hope that helps!

[marmaduke]

forgot to mention that i also add approx. a tablespoon of Flaxseed Oil to their food each meal as well and 400mg of glucosamine/chondroitin/MSM in a 500/400/400mg tablet.

[marmaduke]

We have been following the Going RAWR dog food diet for awhile now and our 2 Golden Retreivers will NOT stop eating their (and our 10 year old Lab/Border Collie Mix’s) own and each other’s poop and one of the Golden’s has gas constantly.

They are just over a year now and we have had them on the RAWR diet since they were approx. 4 months old.

We feed them ground raw chicken for dogs from our local butcher and a recipe for a vegetable/fruit slop and raw chicken hearts or liver.

The veggie/fruit slop contains: romaine lettuce, celery, beets, carrots, squash, bananas, oranges, apples, pineapple, kelp powder, whole eggs (including the shell) and plain yogurt.

Their daily meals are:

Morning – 1cup raw chicken meat, 1/2cup veggie slop, 2 raw chicken hearts or liver.
Evening – same as above.

ANY suggestions on how to cure the poop eating behaviour or the gas, I would certainly appreciate it!!

I am even considering going back to a dry kibble…tried several “premium” brands (Acana, Fromm) and found them to be gassy on them as well…maybe they were too rich?

Thanks

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi DieselJunki –

Congrats on the new family member! 🙂

Amierican Bulldogs would be considered a large breed, so you should feed them as such. Nature’s Variety Instinct Rabbit would be a wonderful choice for your new pup – the calcium levels are right where they should be. All three of my dogs now eat a raw diet, but my oldest used to eat kibble and I used Nature’s Variety Instinct in my rotation frequently – he loved the food and did well on it. All of Nature’s Variety Instinct foods are approved for “All Life Stages” meaning that they meet the nutrition requirements of any age dog – puppy right through to senior. Any 4 or 5 star canned food would make a great topper – as long as you’re only using a little canned to mix with the dry you shouldn’t need to worry about calcium levels too much. My only other suggestion would be to pick at least one or two other dry foods to rotate with – rotational feeding is much healthier than feeding the same food continuously and if you get your new pup accustomed to rotational feeding while he is young it will be easier to change foods later on. If you check out the “Diet and Health Issues” forum and go to the sticky “Large and Giant Breed Puppy Nutrition” topic you’ll find a list with other 4 and 5 star grain-free foods that would be a good choice for your pup.

[patvl246]

I supplement my Mastiffs raw diet with Natures Variety Instinct Raw Boost Venison and Lamb. Are there any recent reviews on this particular kibble

[sisu]

I have a 7 year old who is a spinal walking paraplegic. He has no feeling from the waist down. He can walk due to muscle memory which 10-15% of dogs maintain. There is limited bladder and bowel control. Although the conditions are different our goals in waste management may be the same.

Grain inclusive foods result in big fluffy poop. Grain free with the highest meat content and lowest carbs give the best results when feeding kibble. With a balanced raw diet there is barely any waste. Therefore, the poop is very small, ring finger to little finger size. If Prey Model Raw (PMR) is not an option consider premade raw with the highest meat content. After 5 years of trial and error I have found that EVO Herring and Salmon kibble works very well. As almost a contradiction to my high meat, low carb, low fiber rule Blue Buffalo Wilderness Salmon also results in small size poop. I suspect it may be due to the digestibility of the menhaden fish meal. Of the two brands EVO poop is smaller. Some companies will send free samples. Use the contact link on their websites to make the request.

I feed as close to 6 am and 6 pm as possible. There are very few treats given. Rewards are enthusiastic chin scratches and lots of happy, verbal praise. By restricting the frequency of food going in I can predict that poop will happen an hour to and hour and a half after each meal. Exercise will cause him to poop sooner rather than later. Anal stimulation either by lightly touching around the outside of the anus or using a KY jelly lubricated thermometer inserted into the rectum with some slight movement will cause him to poop a couple of hours sooner than expected. Although I have rarely used either of these methods they are useful for getting things back on schedule. If used frequently poop on demand becomes the schedule rather than allowing his natural digestion to establish a schedule.

Below is a list of meat protein in various brands of kibble that I have collected from the ‘net. I have not fed these brands. Although I trust the sources of the information I cannot guarantee it.

Dr. Tim’s Momentum 35/25, 96%
Native Level 4, 35/25, 93%
Diamond Extreme Athlete, 93%
Inukshuk 32/32, 95%
Annamet should be 90+%. Specific amt. is not known.
Orijen 82%
Horizon Legacy 80%
Instinct 70%.
Merrick grain free 70%

I am unsure if the constant leg movement your boy has are muscle spasms. If so, daily muscle massage of the legs and along the spine similar to Tellington Touch, gentle repetitive bicycle movement, and flexing the leg joints and toes may help. All is done slowly. Stop if there is a spasm. Resume when the muscles relax. After 2 years of daily massage/flexing therapy Connor has no spasms.

If your dog is being treated by a general vet I would suggest a visit to a veterinary neurologist or neurosurgeon. Not for surgery but to evaluate and treat the current condition. For example, there is medication that can help with muscle spasms. Also, if it is in the budget, professional physical therapy can help with lingering issues. If the carts were not professionally fitted a neurologist or physical therapist may be able to resolve the current problems.

If interested in raw feeding:
http://preymodelraw.com/how-to-get-started/
http://puppybutt.weebly.com/uploads/7/6/9/2/7692088/beginners_guide_to_prey_model_raw_rv.4.1.pdf

The Paralysis: Neurological and IVDD forum is very helpful and informative.
http://www.handicappedpet.net/helppets/

I hope some of this helps.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi momtopoms –

Fruits and vegetables really aren’t absolutely necessary if everything else in the diet is balanced and the Nature’s Logic supplement does have some freeze-dried fruits and vegetables in it, so this would probably be enough. However, some other options that you could try:

1) Wysong has a supplement called “Wild Things” – it’s a powder made of freeze-dried fruits, vegetables and super greens: http://www.wysong.net/products/wildthings-dog-cat-supplement.php

2) Essex Cottage Farms has a supplement called “Garden Vegetables”, also a freeze-dried powder: http://www.efarms.cc/Products%20Page.htm

3) Nature’s Farmacy has a whole food supplement called “Cornucopia” and 3 tbs. is the equivalent of a pound of fresh fruits and vegetables: http://www.naturesfarmacy.com/store/details.php?prodId=321&category=

Also, if your dog doesn’t mind pills you could also consider fruit and vegetable concentrate pills made for humans (just read the ingredients list carefully to make sure there is nothing toxic to dogs – such as onions or grapes). There are many different brands that make these, but some I can think of off the top of my head that would be safe for dogs would be Puritan’s Pride 10 Vegetable Multiplex, Wysong’s Salad and Schiff’s Fruit & Vegetable tablets.

[Mom2Cavs]

I’m sorry to hear about your Cav. Sadly, I just lost my 12 year old Blenheim girl, Stella, to SM. 🙁 I think that feeding an all can diet, as long as the canned food is labeled “complete and balanced” and not for supplemental feeding only, is perfectly fine. In fact, it’s really a lot better than feeding a total dry diet. It’s a little closer to being a species appropriate diet, at least. I feel most people don’t use canned, and use dry, simply because it can be cost prohibitive to use, especially with multiple dog households. If you can afford it, it really is better than dry. Some people also feed a raw diet. I prefer premade raw. There are lots of good brands to choose from. If raw is not for you, then there are the freeze dried formulas and rehydrate them. This is what I’m using now, although I do feed kibble and canned with them. I’m using Stella & Chewy’s, Primal, and have some Vital Essentials coming. Canned food contains moisture, which is also great for the dog. Again, I’m sorry your pup is experiencing this. Our breed, as a whole, is burdened with these illnesses and it’s so sad. If I were you, I’d pick some 4-5 star grain free canned food and contact the companies to see what the sodium level is in them and go from there. I have 2 other Cavs at home, both females….Hazel (Black & Tan) and Laverne (Ruby). Hazel has a grade 2 murmur, but so far, Laverne is fine. Actually they’re both doing very well, atm. They both share the same birthday, lol, and Hazel will be 6 this August and Laverne will be 8. Good luck to you with your little one!

[pugmomsandy]

A raw diet will result in smaller, solid, less stinky waste! My raw fed dog’s stool is probably around the size of a nickel – or like small bird eggs.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi mbigdogs –

I feel your pain! I have three bloodhounds – my male is 110 lbs., my adult female is 70 lbs. and my 6 1/2 month old female puppy is pushing 60 lbs and they eat like horses. I feed a homemade raw diet, I order all my food in bulk 300 lb. shipments from a wholesaler that supplies restaurants and grocery stores – I save a significant amount of money this way. Pre-made raw, dehydrated foods and canned foods would pretty much be out of the question – way too cost prohibitive with multiple large dogs. If you want to go the kibble route, some quality cost effective choices would be Merrick’s Whole Earth Farms (4 stars), Pure Balance (3 1/2 stars), Eagle Pack (4 stars), NutriSource (4 stars), Fromm’s Classics Line (3 1/2 stars), Hi-Tek Naturals (3 1/2 stars), Victor (4 stars) and Healthwise (4 stars). All of these foods are in the $35-$40 range for a large bag (usually 30-40 lbs.).

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi DrYattz –

You really can’t give a healthy dog too much protein. Most of the Solid Gold formulas (aside from Barking at the Moon) are actually low in protein, so I doubt that was the issue. My dogs eat a raw diet with 45%-55% protein at each meal – about twice as much protein as is in most kibbles. As far as worrying about availability I’d recommend you get your dogs used to rotating foods. Switching between brands and protein sources is MUCH healthier than feeding the same food day in and day out. Once you get your dogs used to it you shouldn’t even have to transition between foods. Before I switched to raw when my oldest was on kibble I got a new brand of food with a new protein source every 2-3 weeks and a rotated canned food toppers daily – he had no digestive issues. All three of my dogs now eat raw and get something different at each meal – no issues here either. The Ol Roy Pure Balance looks like a decent budget friendly food, it’s low in protein and fat though so it’s a good thing you’re adding the chicken.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi busterbrown –

I experienced a similar issue with one my dogs. When she was a puppy she was extremely skinny – it seemed like no matter how much I fed her she was just a skeleton. I couldn’t get any weight on her until I switched her to a high fat diet. She eats a grain-free raw diet now of about 45-55% protein, 30%-40% fat and 15-20% carbohydrates. She’s still slim, but I’ve finally got it to where her ribs and hips aren’t protruding too awfully bad. She put on about 8 pounds in the first 4 months I had her on a high fat raw diet. If your dog needs to gain weight and the excess fat doesn’t cause any intestinal distress, I definitely think higher fat is the way to go. W/d is an extremely poor quality food – as are most prescription foods – and while I go to my vet for advice on lots of things, nutrition isn’t one of them. In some rare/extreme cases I think prescription foods can help stabilize a serious medical condition but I don’t personally believe they should ever be a long term solution. With a sensitive stomach, I think all you really need to do is try some foods and find one that doesn’t cause any issues. I’m willing to bet there’s a non-prescription food that will work. I’d recommend something grain-free and limited in ingredients. Nature’s Variety Instinct has some limited ingredient canned foods that are moderately high in fat, EVO has a 95% Meat line that is high fat and very limited in ingredients, ZiwiPeak would be another great choice. I’d also like to mention Abady – they have a granular food line that is excellent for putting on weight (it’s high fat and very calorie-dense with nearly 800 calories per cup) and dogs with sensitive stomachs seem to do well on it. Abady makes some great canned foods too so that may be something you could check out.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi hvnlysrph –

There’s no reason to “transition” a healthy dog from food to food regardless of if you’re feeding canned or dry. If your dog is accustomed to eating the same food and has eaten the same food for a long period of time you many initially find that you need to transition, however once your dog gets used to switching foods you shouldn’t need to. When my dog ate dry food I got a new brand with a new protein source at the end of every bag (every 2-3 weeks) and rotated canned food toppers daily. All of my dogs now eat a raw diet and get something different at each meal. None have any digestive issues with switching. Switching brands and varieties is the healthiest thing you can do.

[pugmomsandy]

I’ve been using ProDen PlaqueOff (seaweed) for 2 months on my foster who needs a dental. When I first brought him home I had to roll the windows down in the car his breath was so bad! Now he sleeps in my room and I can put my face right up to him and there is no smell and his tongue is always hanging out! I haven’t checked his teeth for tarter but he is going to see the dental folks tomorrow morning. He is also on a wet diet only. No kibble.

My other dogs eat raw meaty bones or gnaw on marrow bones, antlers, bully sticks for teeth cleaning.

[aimee]

Oh Ok… i thought you meant the “they” was the AVMA.

I’m not a big conspiracy theorist. I don’t think the AVMA anti raw had anything to do with commercial kibble providers. If it did why do they specifically recommend cooked foods or leave a loop hole for raw diets rendered pathogen free by processing?

I saw that the Connecticut VMA is bringing the homeopathy issue to the table, so it really isn’t the AVMA that initiated it. It seems to me a process, like bringing a bill before congress. The CVMA wants the issue evaluated.

I do see that AVMA passed a policy to encourage to allow exemption from Rabies vaccination. Not all states allow this and AVMA is saying they should. So to me that is advocating for the animals health. shrug

And yes vets give raw feeders “the lecture” to CYA against liability. but once given and documented in the record hopefully the focus should be on making sure the person is feeding a balanced diet. JMO

[soho]

Hi Safarisam

These recommendations are just my opinion and I am NOT a vet. This is just what I would do if I were in your situation. I would try to find a holistic or integrative vet to be part of your healthcare team in dealing with your dogs diet and his diabetes!

There are many many options for your pom. Since you mentioned you would love to make his food here is one option. Buy ground turkey, ground beef and chicken breasts from your local supermarkets. Buy some frozen vegetables, no onions or starchy veggies like potatoes and no grains. His diet should be at least 80% meat and no more then 20% vegetables.

You can steam the veggies and then mash them up or you can puree them in a blender or food processor without cooking them. The idea is to make the veggies easier to digest since dogs don’t process veggies that well. The meats can be lightly cooked using low heat. I would be cautious about giving raw food to your dog at this point because it is hard for anyone to judge the condition of his immune system and the damage that has been done from the diabetes. A good immune system is necessary to handle the bacteria from raw food.

Since there are no bones in this diet a calcium supplement is necessary. If it is made for dogs it will have the dosages on the label. A multivitamin is also necessary because it is difficult for the home prepared diet to be complete and balanced without adding vitamins and minerals. Again if it is made for dogs the dosage will be on the label. I would also add some digestive enzymes and some sardines for their omega 3 content. The sardines would be part of the 80% meat portion of the diet. additional toppers like green tripe and organ meats can be rotated in the 80% part of the diet. Toppers should be no more then 20% of the total diet.

This is a start and there are many more options than the one I have given. A good book for you to help with your dogs diet would be see spot live longer by Steve Brown.

I wish you and your pomeranian the very best!

[Hound Dog Mom]

I personally don’t use any chemicals on my dogs. I use Sentry Natural Defense topical which has pepermint oil, lemongrass oil, cinnamon oil and thyme oil and I put Earth Animals No More Ticks herbal tincture in their food 6 days per week during flea/tick season. My dogs are outdoors a lot, I comb them with a flea comb daily during flea/tick season and have never found a flea or tick on them. All their snap tests have always come up negative for lyme as well. Dogs with weak immune systems are more likely to attract parasites (both internal and external) – so the best and safest way to prevent flea infestations – imo – is building up their immune system. When my dog ate low quality kibble I always had flea issues (I used Advantix on him and he had a flea/tick collar purchased from the vet during the summer). Since I’ve switched to a grain-free raw diet, eliminated chemical flea and tick preventatives, eliminated chemical wormers and limited my use of heart worm preventative and vaccines – I’ve never had any of my dogs get fleas, ticks or intestinal parasites.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi Jens –

Check out the “Transitioning to Raw” thread and the “Suggested Raw Dog Food Menus?” thread – there are a lot of tips on getting started and some recipes there. Dogaware.com is a great resource for beginners and I would also recommend purchasing a copy of “Unlocking the Canine Ancestral Diet” by Steve Brown – it’s a very comprehensible and quick read, a great book for raw newbies. As for a grinder, I personally don’t use a grinder for my RMBs – your dogs miss out on the dental benefits if you grind the bones. I know a few people here do use grinders though, maybe one of them will pop in with what kind they have.

[Jens]

Due to having a life besides my dogs, but having the desire to feed them a healthy raw diet, I was wondering what is a simply reciept to feed them daily the same food home made mix. I have two old Malamute/Retriever mixes and two young 3 months old puppies. All are currently on Orijen (large breed and adult) dry food, which they like and do well on. Also, how do you grind your meat, especially the bones and does anybody have a recommendation for a meat grinder.

[aimee]

Beth,

I just wanted to say I admire your strength and courage for being a responsible and loving owner to your dear dog. We as a society recognize that some people are too dangerous to live among us. There are dogs that simply are not safe to live with either. We want so desperately for these dogs to be normal which is why we grasp at any straw, like diet change, to fix them. But sadly it is not the case.

[Shawna]

I’m not understanding your post? They know lectins cause disease (including diabetes). What they don’t know is to what extent and why one has this issue and one has that. I have a friend whose dog is intolerant of green beans. I know others that have issues with strawberries and cucumbers. I am intolerant of dairy lectins and my husband reacts to pinto bean lectins.

The difference between us and our dogs —- we eat a varied diet while we (many of us) force our dogs to dine on the same cuisine day in and day out. Our dogs are more suseptible to the damages of lectins—if in the diet they are eating day after day..

I’m ALL FOR species appropriate diets by the way.. BEFORE illness sets in especially 🙂 Five of my dogs get raw including my dog born with kidney disease. The foster dogs (which will likely be with us for life) get 5 star kibbles with raw and high protein canned toppers.

[soho]

Hi Everyone,

I would like to discuss diet and diabetes. Diabetes is a huge subject to tackle whether it is in regard to people or to pets. I wanted to start the conversation with the question;

“What should I feed my Diabetic dog?”

Without going into the science of Diabetes which would be a very long and complex conversation let’s just discuss what you can do in regards to your dog’s diet to help them live a longer and healthier life.

I have been dealing with my own diabetes for 28 years now and I worked for a Doctor of Osteopathy as a diabetes educator in her Manhattan, NY office. For the last eight years I have counseled many dog guardians on the subject of canine diabetes. I have seen literally thousands of dogs with every kind of health issue through my work with the non profit FreePlay which educates the public on the benefits of off leash recreation areas and with The Pet Wash a local grooming and retail establishment.

The good news is you can really make a difference in your diabetic dog’s well being through their diet. The bad news is diabetes is an insidious disease that can rob your dog of their sight and their life if left unmanaged.

The Canine Ancestral diet which is approximately 55% protein 25 to 30% fat and 15% carbohydrate or on a calorie weighted basis 50% of calories are from protein, 44% from fat, and only 6% from carbohydrate is a good starting point to consider in trying to help the diabetic dog through diet.

The ancestral diet is so low in carbohydrates that it is tailor made for a diabetic dog. You can prepare this type of diet at home using human grade meats and vegetables which we will discuss in another post or you can try to feed your dog a similar diet using commercial foods. I would recommend starting with a balanced raw diet that does not contain bones and lightly cooking it. I would cook it lightly because a lot of diabetic dogs are not in the best health and their ability to deal with the bacteria and microbes that are in the raw food is probably compromised.

Second choice would be a dehydrated food such as The Honest Kitchen. THK is a quality food that uses only human grade ingredients in all of their formulas. The problem with THK is it is lower in protein that what I would suggest. This can be remedied by adding about 20% lightly cooked meat to each of the recipes. I would stick with similar proteins like fowl for the turkey or chicken formulas, fish for the fish formulas and red meat for the beef formulas.

Next would be a canned food that has no grains or other starches like potatoes. I would look for a canned food that was mostly meats with a little vegetables.

Lastly would be kibble. Kibbles require starch to bind the ingredients. They also are the most processed of all the commercial diets available for dogs. They also are dry and nutrient dense. I would suggest that a diabetic dog be fed a high moisture diet like a fresh food or a dehydrated after it is rehydrated or a canned food. Moisture helps ease the burden of the kidneys which are one of the organs that are affected by diabetes.

If you must feed a kibble for whatever reason then I would look to a kibble like EVO which is only 12 percent carbohydrates. The lowest carb highest protein kibble would be the only kibble I would consider feeding a dog with diabetes. Unfortunately once a dog has diabetes the controlling of this disease would be of paramount importance to me and I would no longer be as concerned with considering all of the qualities of an individual dog food and I would mostly focus on feeding a high protein, low carbohydrate and high moisture diet

Questions anyone?

• This topic was modified 13 years, 2 months ago by soho.

[Shawna]

Hi Lizemma ~~ I missed this post earlier.. My dog, Audrey, was born with kidney disease. She started showing symptoms of excess drinking and urinating at about 6 weeks of age. She came to me at 9 weeks of age. She was officially diagnosed at her one year check up.

Audrey was weaned onto a raw diet and has been eating raw her whole life. She is now 6 and 1/2 years old and still very healthy. She still has kidney disease but unless you look at her blood work or see her drink/urinate you wouldn’t know she was not completely healthy.

Raw isn’t for everyone but it is VERY VERY VERY important to feed dogs with kidney disease a high moisture diet. If raw isn’t an option consider home cooked or canned.

In the earlier stages of kidney disease (despite what your vet says) you do NOT need to lower protein. In fact, they now know that lowering protein too early in the disease actually does more harm than good. I don’t even feed Audrey a low phosphorus food but it is wise to begin to lower phosphorus. The amount to lower is completely based on the stage of the disease.

An EXCELLENT website for all things involving canine kidney disease is nutritionist Mary Straus’ website. She has accurate and current info with research articles linked to back up her comments. She also has a list of lower phosphorus kibble/canned/dehydrated etc foods. http://www.dogaware.com/health/kidney.html

If your vet hasn’t talked to you about “nitrogen trapping” I HIGHLY recommend researching it. Utilizing nitrogen trapping can help significantly (by up to 10 points) clean BUN out of the blood and routing it through the colon sparing the kidneys from having to filter it. Nitrogen trapping involves probiotics and a certain kind of fiber to feed those probiotics. I use acacia fiber — it’s called Sprinkle Fiber and the brand is Fiber 35. It’s made for human consumption but I had the most positive results using this brand with my Audrey.

Best wishes for many more healthy years with your pup!!!!!

[Hound Dog Mom]

Can’t say I agree that adding tapioca to raw would be a good idea. I wouldn’t reduce the protein content of my dogs’ food, up the carb content and glycemic load to add pre-biotics when there are much more species-appropriate pre-biotics that can be added without altering the protein and carbohydrate content and glycemic load. Chicory root, burdock root, dandelion root and garlic are all pre-biotics. Many can be purchased in concentrated tinctures specifically for pets that add appreciable amounts of pre-biotics to the diet. I’ve used Prebiotic Plus herbal tincture from Animals’ Apawthecary before and I also add minced raw garlic 2 or 3 times a week. With kibble a starch is obviously necessary, so it’s great to use a starch that has some sort of benefit (such as the pre-biotics in tapioca) because you have to have it, but a raw diet gives the opportunity to completely eliminate starches and that (in my opinion) is the beauty of a raw diet and why I think dogs thrive so much more on raw than on kibble.

[BrothersDogFood]

Toxed

Thanks for such a comprehensive look at Cassava root to help dismiss some of the negative hype that’s been circulating lately. So allow me to add my 2 cents to the discussion.

One of the things about Cassava that is often overlooked is that as much as 50% is in an insoluble form that feeds the good bacteria in the gut and doesn’t really contribute to the Glycemic index load in the blood stream. So it’s a carbohydrate that binds the meat and fat part of the formula while half of it is used to strengthen the immune system and feed the good bacteria in the gut to keep the system healthy. In effect one half the carbs in the cassava root are not really used by the regular system nor do they effect it directly.

They are basically “encapsulated” so the main system doesn’t have access to them and delivered to a sub-system in the body – which is the bacterial colony in the gut – and this bacterial colony (which has 10X the number of cells than the entire rest of the body combined) is essential in maintaining the immune system and the healthy functioning of the rest of the system. Actually, if you were to replace the Cassava with some more meat it wouldn’t be nearly as healthy for the system as a whole. THe work that the Cassava does in maintaining gut health is far more beneficial than some additional amino acid sequences in extra protein.

All carbohydrates are NOT created equal – some are actually very beneficial – even to a dog. Dogs may not have a “need” for carbohydrates but that doesn’t mean that certain carbs in proper quantities can’t be used judiciously to benefit the dog’s system. In fact even if I were to feed an all raw diet, knowing what I now know about Cassava root and gut biology, I would add it to the raw food. While many of us have a tendency to want to see life in black and white terms, me included, because it simplifies everything and reduces the complexity to manageable levels….it seems that life is actually mostly composed of shades of gray.

This years Nobel prize in Physics went to 2 men who found a way to design an experiment that proved that one aspect of the Quantum world, which is the basis of our physical reality, is so strange that Einstein died convinced that what they just proved was absolutely impossible. I won’t go into it but what they proved to be quite real is 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 times stranger than the idea that a certain carb source, in proper proportion, might actually be more beneficial to a dog than if it weren’t in the dogs diet. Just a little food for the open mind.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Got this in my email today:

“Urgent: If you believe in Homeopathic Therapies for Pets, PLEASE READ THIS”

http://healthypets.mercola.com/sites/healthypets/archive/2013/01/04/homeopathic-therapy.aspx?e_cid=20130104_PetsNL_art_1

[Toxed2loss]

I’m sorry James. Just a typo probably, and my auto correct substituted Jack. It was not intentional.

I didn’t do “a quick web search” on diabetes, as you assumed. I have a more holistic approach than you, not a limited one. I first started studying it 25 years ago. It is a very complex issue. I ran a quick search to see what some of the diabetic sites were currently saying about tapioca. My daughter has diabetes, and she eats carbs, including tapioca. So I checked, since I wouldn’t consider my daughter’s personal decisions an appropriate source on diabetes…

I chose to discuss meat based proteins being a superior canine diet and a natural segue of that is why I feed Brother’s, when I prefer balanced raw. You are the one focusing on the fact I talked about Brother’s, more than you are paying attention to everything else I said. Your comments seemed to imply that ANY tapioca was bad, and therefore any dog food with tapioca is bad. I’m explaining that its not. And since this is still a dog food forum discussing dog food ingredients, and no dog food is tapioca based, you’re obviously objecting to a proportionally very small amount of tapioca being used. That begs the question, why get all het up about that tiny bit of tapioca when grain based dog foods have a whole lot higher net GL…?

FYI I’m free to give my opinion of Brother’s Complete when ever I feel inclined.

[Toxed2loss]

Hi Jack,
Its a good thing tapioca is used minimally in high end kibbles then, – just as a binder. Not like the corn based kibbles, which are mostly high glycemic starches. Though it is interesting that there is research showing animal fat & protein mediates glucose spikes & that endocrine disrupting hormones have a greater impact than modest carbohydrate consumption.

I ran a quick search and diabetics are allowed to eat some tapioca… It just has to be balanced.
Here’s a quote from a diabetes support site. Granted its from a human type I site, but the research said that because there wasn’t much on dogs, it was acceptable to correlate human diabetes Type I information to dogs.

“- Vegetables that should be consumed in limited quantities by diabetics are: High sugar vegetables and root vegetables like carrot, potato, beetroot, colocasia, sweet potato, yam, tapioca and other vegetables like artichoke, green plantain, tender jackfruit, broad beans, double beans, cluster beans.”

So limited quantities, not none. I certainly wouldn’t feed any of my dogs any predominantly starch based diet, tapioca or not. They weren’t designed to eat starch, as a staple. I prefer to feed a balanced raw, according to Steve Brown’s book, and Dr. Becker & Beth Taylor’s book. I feed raw & kibble because I can’t count on my health being stable. Like today, I started out great, but had a bad crash at 2:00, recovered and had a major crash at 6:00. Luckily I got on top of that one and am recovering fairly well at the moment. So I picked the absolute best kibble I could, for my girls, because I know my husband. He’s not going to feed raw if I croak over. I want them to all go on with as minimum disruption as possible. I feel the percentages of carbs, including the tapioca, and their combined glycemic indexes as compared to the meat, fat, bone, ratios & the ratios of other ingredients of Brother’s Complete Fish formula is the best. I also like how it doesn’t have the toxins that I see in a number of other “high end” kibbles. And according to some research papers, those dietary toxins are being recognized as having a much greater influence on promoting diabetes Type I (the kind that dogs typically get), than previously thought. My2¢

[Shawna]

Hi Bill 🙂

1. The reason plant based proteins are combined, as you know, is that some are deficient in one essential amino acid or another. By combining you can get representation of all essentials. My problem with this is that if not done well it can still cause an excess of others making the entire protein content less bioavailable. Bioavailability is the ability of the body to use the amino acids from the proteins we eat. Egg has 100% bioavailability — ALL the amino acids in an egg are used leaving none to become blood urea nitrogen for the kidneys to have to filter. When we combine foods we’re bound to have an excess of some and a proper representation of others. The body is then going to have an excess of some that it can’t use and these become blood urea nitrogen. This isn’t a bad thing unless the eater has kidney disease.

All animal based proteins already have all essential amino acids so combining is not really as necessary. However some have more of one and less of another — turkey, as an example, is a good source of tryptophan. Adding animal based protein to any kibble is a good idea and mixing up the proteins makes sense (different amino acids, different fat representations etc). You can not over feed protein to a healthy dog. What they can not use they will safely eliminate causing no harm.

It’s best to feed eggs raw as cooking them can denature the protein in the whites and destroy the omega 3 in the yolk. If feeding whites only you must cook them as the avidin in the white binds to the B vitamin biotin and can cause a deficiency. The yolk is high in biotin so when feeding together avidin is now believed to not be an issue.

2. I don’t think that carbs reduce the benefit of protein (with an exception) but rather they take the place of the much more needed protein. It is well known, and mentioned in the teaching books like Waltham, that dogs have NO nutritional need for carbs. Adding carbs displaces the macronutrients they do need — fat and protein. Dogs can derive glucose from protein and fat. Carbs (starch) is added to kibble more because kibble can not be made without starch than a dietary need. I do think that in our modern world the antioxidants, vitamins etc in high quality carbs (veggies and fruit) can be of great benefit when used in small amounts though.

The exception I mentioned above — there is a theory that carbs and proteins digest at different rates, and more importantly, at different acid/base levels. Lou and Marilyn Diamond had a very interesting book out in the 80’s called “Fit for Life”. From memory, the theory is that carbs (starch) digest in an alkaline environment and protein in acid. This is true but I don’t know if one impedes the other. Example — if a high starch diet prevents the stomach from producing enough HCL to activate the pepsin protein in the stomach that digests the protein.. If this is true than excess, or any, starch can make protein digestion more difficult. Carbs could be eaten but not at the same meal as protein and visa versa. Fruit had to be eaten alone and non-starchy carbs (aka certain veggies) could be eaten with protein or starchy meals. I tried this and I do think it improved digestion considerably but it was difficult to maintain and after about 8 months I gave it up never to retry.

3. I’m sure there’s a way to easily figure out the percent but math is not my strong suit so I’ll leave that to someone with stronger math skills :). I will say however that I don’t think you need to worry about it. Those of us that feed raw, myself and Toxed included, feed protein amounts in excess of 50%. What you do want to be congniscent of is not to add more than 20% of ANY food that is not balanced to an already balanced diet. Doing so can throw off the calcium to phosphorus ratio and that could be bad..

I am HORRIBLY sorry if this post makes little to no sense…?? I’m watching my 1 and 2 year old grand kids and they make concentration and focus near impossible.

Thank you Toxed for your vote of confidence!!!!! 🙂 Love you girl!!

[Toxed2loss]

Tapioca is one of the alternative starches being used in higher end kibbles. Its gluten free, non-GMO, and when properly processed, non-toxic. In order to make, and bind kibble you must use a certain amount of starch. Tapioca is a good choice in that it is nontoxic, gluten & lectin free.

There is a lot of misinformation being disseminated about tapioca, so lets review the facts and set the record straight. There are no poisonings from properly processed tapioca flour. In fact, most poisonings occur in famine stricken areas where the starving individuals try to take short cuts in processing the raw cassava or manioc root. This is well documented. Tapioca has been safely consumed for thousands of years and is the main staple starch in African, Indonesian and South American diets. “500 million people rely on cassava as their main source of calories, among them subsistence farmers in Sub-Saharan Africa…”Richard Sayre, a professor of plant biology at Ohio State University
—-

“The Culprit in Cassava Toxicity: Cyanogens or Low Protein?
by G. Padmaja

The starchy roots of cassava (Manihot esculenta Crantz) are already a staple for about 500 million people of tropical Africa, Asia, and Latin America, but countless others might also benefit from this food if it were not for the sensationalism that sometimes surrounds the crop’s potential toxicity.
The cassava plant carries two cyanogenic glucosides, linamarin and lotaustralin, in its edible roots and leaves. The amounts of these potentially toxic compounds vary considerably, according to cultivar and growing conditions. “Sweet” varieties usually have such small amounts as to be innocuous, whereas “bitter” varieties have sufficiently high levels to require domestic processing to remove most of the toxins.

In situations where famine or extreme poverty may force a population to eat poorly processed cassava in a diet that is also deficient in nutrients such as protein, the plant’s cyanogenic glucosides can lead to poisoning. A classic case was the infantile kwashiorkor epidemic in famine-stricken Biafra in 1968, but there have also been recent examples of spastic paraparesis, or konzo, in drought-stricken regions of Mozambique and Tanzania.

Detoxifying cassava

Farming populations who cultivate cassava have developed many methods of detoxifying cassava. Boiling and drying are sufficient to make low-cyanogen cultivars safe for consumption, but more rigorous procedures such as grating, fermenting, and sun-drying, are necessary to effectively remove cyanogens from cultivars of higher toxicity.

The protein link

Whenever a chronic disease has been linked to cassava consumption, the victims have also been found to suffer from protein deficiency, suggesting a relationship between the two.

Protein is essential for all the body’s vital functions, and for eliminating certain dietary toxins. With the help of the enzyme rhodanese, the human body detoxifies cyanide by forming thiocyanate. When the body is regularly exposed to cassava cyanogens, the increased synthesis of rhodanese makes extra demands on the body’s reserves of amino acids, the building blocks of proteins. To detoxify 1.0 mg hydrocyanic acid (HCN), the body also needs a daily supply of about 1.2 mg of dietary sulfur (S) from S- containing amino acids (SAA). If the demand for rhodanese and SAA is prolonged, as in the regular consumption of cassava, and the diet is inadequate, the synthesis of many proteins vital for bodily functions may be impaired, leading to the development of protein deficiency diseases.

Cassava – low protein source

Cyanogens alone cannot be blamed for toxicity because other cyanogenic crops, such as sorghum and Lathyrus bean, which are widely used as food, cause few toxicity problems. But the protein contents of these two crops (11.0% and 18.7%, respectively) are higher.

Many cassava products contain very low amounts of cyanogens, which can be efficiently eliminated by the body, if the protein intake is adequate. Cassava roots, being bulky and rich in carbohydrates, free dietary proteins from having to meet the body’s energy needs, thus allowing them to be used more efficiently. However, the level of protein in cassava lags far behind the levels found in rice, wheat, and tuber crops (Figure 1). An adult consuming 1 kg of cassava has to ingest 52 g of protein from other sources to obtain the U.S. recommended daily allowance (RDA) of 65 g protein per adult. In contrast, 1 kg of wheat supplies 121 g of protein and rice, 61 to 64 g of protein.

If protein intake is more than adequate for both general metabolic requirements and cyanide elimination, toxic effects are lessened or even eliminated, even if cassava is improperly processed. (Fatal poisoning can result from ingestion of large amounts of unprocessed or poorly processed high-cyanogen cassava.) Hence, the lack of protein in cassava roots is probably responsible for most non-fatal cases of cyanide poisoning associated with cassava.”
http://www.worldbank.org/html/cgiar/newsletter/Oct96/6cassava.html
——-
Notice it was cassava and not tapioca, that caused the poisonings. Notice also that they weren’t in the US, but in impoverished areas, in developing nations, and there was a lack of sufficient dietary protein.
——-

Nutritional profile of cassava
Cassava root is essentially a carbohydrate source.[27] Its composition shows 60–65 percent moisture, 20–31 percent carbohydrate, 1–2 percent crude protein and a comparatively low content of vitamins and minerals. However, the roots are rich in calcium and vitamin C and contain a nutritionally significant quantity of thiamine, riboflavin and nicotinic acid. Cassava starch contains 70 percent amylopectin and 20 percent amylose. Cooked cassava starch has a digestibility of over 75 percent.
Cassava root is a poor source of protein. Despite the very low quantity, the quality of cassava root protein is fairly good in terms of essential amino acids. Methionine, cysteine and cystine are, however, limiting amino acids in cassava root.
http://www.ask.com/wiki/Cassava
——

THE HEALTH BENEFITS OF TAPIOCA
Aug 5, 2011 | By Kristi Wray

Conventionally, tapioca, derived from the cassava plant, is best known as a creamy pudding dessert with little sustenance. However, in some in areas like Africa, Asia and South America, tapioca is known better for its nutritional benefits than as a sweet treat. When eaten raw or incorrectly prepared, the plant releases poisonous properties. Thus, tapioca must be prepared correctly to prevent harm and ensure safe eating.

STARCH EQUALS ENERGY
The cassava plant is a root vegetable and a healthy source of carbohydrates. In many countries, it serves as a main dish because of its high starch content. Even better, it is considered a healthy starch because it is low in cholesterol and unhealthy fats. Tapioca can be included in dietary plans to promote healthy weight gain.

GLUTEN-FREE
People suffering with Celiac disease or other conditions that restrict the use of gluten-based foods can use tapioca as an alternative to recipes that use wheat flour. Tapioca flour, which does not contain any gluten, is a healthier alternative to wheat flour. Both tapioca flour and tapioca starch can be used as a thickening agent in cream-based sauces and gravies.

MINERALS
Calcium, phosphorous, potassium and magnesium can be found in tapioca in varying amounts. If you are preparing a more processed form of the root, like a pudding mix, you will receive a smaller amount of these minerals than if you were to consume tapioca starch or flour. Tapioca is also a good source of iron, and, in particular, dry tapioca pearls contain up to 13 percent of your daily value of iron. B-vitamins, including folic acid, which is extremely vital for pregnant women, are also found in tapioca.

DIETARY FIBER
Over the years, the U.S. Department of Agriculture has placed extreme importance on the consumption of dietary fiber on a daily basis for a healthier lifestyle. The cassava root has a significant amount of dietary fiber in its natural form. According to the USDA, foods high in dietary fiber can help lower cholesterol, decrease the rate of colon cancer, and lower the risk of diabetes and heart disease.” http://www.livestrong.com/article/509033-the-health-benefits-of-tapioca/
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So there you have it. A factual picture of tapioca starch, without the scare tactics.