[Terri M]

Thanks so much for your replies. Yes, my vet said NOTHING else, not even chew bones, while doing the elimination diet. I’m going to give it a try. I’ve also done quite a bit of reading about boosting their immune systems with probiotics. What are your thoughts on this? My vet said “NO RAW”. Not sure why….the holistic store I’ve been going to gave me a sample for him to try and you would have thought I had put crack in front of him! He loved it! Do y’all know why vets are so against raw? My vet did mention a homemade diet as well. If this doesn’t work, I’m SO there!

[Susan]

Yes terri, Elimination diets are best, but you can do ur own home cooked or raw, instead of the kibble, I found my boy cant have Potatos or sweet potatos makes him itch more, I started with just boiled chicken breast & pumkin, then after 2 weeks I added some sweet potato & within 2 days his ears were itching, so I stopped the sweet potatos & his ears stop itching, then I added a boiled egg, he was fine, I started gaving him a little bit of banana as a treat he was fine but I noticed that he started to get his yeasty stinky smell again & I looked up bananas & they are a high carb fruit that converts to sugar that causes yeast, so now Im stopping the banana, he’s not a happy camper, he loves his banana, Im sick of cooking & freezing chicken every 10 days, Im using tuna or salmon now instead of the chicken, my vet said try goat, I went to the butcher & he said that goat is dearer then lamb, around $35 a kilo, that idea went out the door, The vet did skin scrapping & got stuff out of his ears & he too came back negitive for yeast but he itched & stank like a bread shop, real stinky yeast smell..so I dont understand, Ive googled high carb fruit & vegies & I stay away from them…I will not try the steriods as I saw on one of Dr Karen Becker videos the steriods just mask the problem, a band-aid as soon as u stop the steriods the problem comes back, I think the enviornment adds to Patches itch problem as well, we walk alot so just rubbing against a plant, grass or sniffing pollen in the air can set them off, next dog will not have any white on their bodies, the vet said white dogs are normally more prone to skin problems..
If your dog can stomach raw, then raw is best for elimination diets, there’s no carbs, that’s why Id say alot of dogs have these itchy problems….also alot of these grainfree kibbles have potatos, peas, sweet potatos, lentils, barley, legumes…

[Katie J]

A little over two weeks ago, I brought home a new pup for my boyfriend. He’s a Shiba Inu/Akita Inu mix and coming up to 4 months old. I have very little background on him as he was a pet store pup that I bought second hand. It’s a long story for another thread. I know the stigma with pet store pups as well though I have a 13 year old English Springer Spaniel that was purchased at a pet store that has never had anything but a routine vet visit and lives on Purina of all things. Anyhow back on topic. My little guy is little. He weighed at 7 lbs about a week ago at the vet’s office, but I am guessing he’s sitting closer to 8-9 now. Yes, I know he is shockingly small for his supposed breeding. But everyone that meets him guesses either one of this mix, but no one knows why he’s so small. We’re guessing that it could have a lot to do with his pet store past.

Now that that’s out of the way, time to talk food. I got him with a bag of Eukanuba puppy. He ate that fine until he caught wind of the Purina. Our adult dogs (the spaniel and my terrier mix) are free range because we lead a very busy and random life at the house. This is something I plan to change for my terrier and this pup when my boyfriend get our own place. I knew that I didn’t want the pup to eat adult food as he has special puppy needs. I nearly just bought the puppy formula for Purina until I food this website. Since then I have done more reading than I would care to admit on dog food. I decided to pick a food that wasn’t going to be a big jump in quality or price and bought 4Health Puppy. I know some people are leery of Diamond. But at the price and star rating, I grabbed a bag along with one of each of their rice free cans. My plan was to do kibble and a can topper. He licked the bowl clean for three meals. Meal four, he ate half and walked away. I switched the topper to a new flavor. Same result. We were trying two meals a day but broke it down to 3 thinking that I was trying to feed him too much at a time. No change. Though I was able to get him to finish if I spoon fed the last half of his food.

Three days ago I stopped by a local dog boutique and came home with several samples and goats milk as a probiotic. His stools had been soft too pretty loose due to the changing in foods trying to find something he liked. After the milk thawed I gave him a little in his nornal meal with the same result: ate half, spoon fed rest. Stools have firmed up since. The night before last we started samples. I have a lot of Earthborn as I had went to another store and got even more samples most of which was Earthborn. I think it was the prairie formula first that he nearly finished on his own without the milk. I only give the milk once a day. Apparently he nearly finished his next two meal with my boyfriend. I wasn’t there as I was working. But I know that he will not spoon feed. With fireworks last night, the pup didn’t get his dinner. It was too late, and he had a late lunch. I expected a hungry puppy today! Nope. Same result with goats milk. This was his second feeding on a new flavor of Earthborn. I forgot the flavor. But it was blue packaging. I still have the primitive flavor left to try from Earthborn. I also have Halo, two flavors of Fromm, Acana and Orijen puppy. I wanted to get through all of the cheaper stuff first in hopes of finding something he likes.

A few extra things to add, I am feeding him separately from the spaniel who is very food aggressive. But I feed him with my terrier as I want to start transititioning my terrier to a better diet as well for when we move out. Sometimes the pup seems distracted because the terrier gets something different (4Health adult and the same topper the pup gets). But he does want to eat the terrier’s. He gets awfully burpy when he eats. I am looking to add sardines and perhaps switching to plain Kefir for the probiotic. Switching to raw right now is not something I want to do. I am unsure about getting the right balance, and his puppy stage is far too important to screw up. I do plan on introducing him to all the raw elements I want to use in the future, and at around a year old, we may make the switch. And I cannot afford to do commercial or dehydrated food. I love the guy, but I can’t justify spending as much to feed him as to fees me not to mention it’s not in the budget.

Boy that was long just to get to what I wanted to ask. Is he training me to spoon feed him? It seems like all of my meals with him end with me begging him to finish so much so that I grab the spoon. His nutrition is so important to me. I can’t stand him missing a meal or wasting that food! Any ideas?

[pugmomsandy]

If you haven’t been through the DFA Library yet, there are some helpful articles there about how to choose dog food, ingredients, ingredient labels, canine nutrition, etc.

/helpful-dog-food-articles/

For me personally, I chose 1) a small kibble, 2) generally not less than 30% protein for kibble, 3) gluten free, 4) not less than 36% protein dry matter for wet food, 5) no by-products/sugar/food color/BHA/BHT/ethoxyquin/sodium nitrite, and I generally do not buy from the large corporations (the ones that also make candy bars and toothpaste and other household items).

Also, I feel diet variety and rotation is important so pick various proteins and types of foods (raw, canned, frozen, dehydrated/freeze dried, kibble).

[Susan]

Hi Amy, its not the Frontline, frontline only penetrates the first 1-2 layers of their skin, My boy had a reaction to Advantage DO NOT USE the Advantage penetrates thru the skin to their blood, within 24hrs one side of my boys head swelled up his ear & his bottom lip swelled, & he was vomiting blood early hours of the morning, at first I didnt think the Advantage until I rung his vet. the best way to know whats happening is an elimination diet, for 1 month you just feed 1 new protein & say boiled pumkin or rice nothing else no treats nothing, thats if you think it could be foods, I used chicken in Patches elimantion diet but now I think Patch cant have chicken as the lumps on his head that look like hives got worst, Patches vet said that he has seasonal allergies & cause I just rescued him 19 months ago she said I’ll start to see a pattern, I noticed last winter Patch was good, no itch but the end of summer Patch got all his hive like lumps, itching & rubbing along the wall, this winter Patch has his hive like lumps again, so I look in Patches diary & last winter I wasnt feeding him chicken, this winter I was feeding chicken, so Ive stopped the chicken…Ive heard all these test are no good as they give false readings the best would be if you could try him on raw, Im just starting a new kibble called Wellness Simple it has limited ingredients, also watch his carbs, no potatoes, no sweet potatoes, no carrots no high carbs that turn to sugar that makes yeasty itchy skin.. If he can handle it i’d feed raw.. & google a good Raw diet for itchy skin..Ive been thinking of putting Patch on Raw but he has IBD & I have enough trouble trying to find a low fat kibble, so raw would have to much fat for Patch..also there could be a plant or grass in ur garden or on his walks that he’s allergic to, I’ve changed Patches walking route to see if that helps….Its winter here in Australia, so if Patch has enviornment allergies or seasonal allergies like his vet said, why is he getting them now being winter & he didnt last year, thats whats making me look at his food this year, I use Malaseb Medicated shampoo, & I use a cortisone cream when he gets some of the red itchy sores, I found the cortsone 1% cream is excellent Im just using my cream…just look at the ingredients in his kibble & see if there’s Potatos sweet potatos carrots, lentils any high carb foods…A friend from the dog park had a staffy that was so itchy he was red & losing his fur she tried the vet diets they didnt work then she tried the Holistic Select Adult health Anchovys sardines & salmon & her boy is looking excellent not scratching fur all grown back..so a few people from the dog park are using the Holistic Select with great results… Im also given Patch tuna & pumkin for breakfast to replace the chicken & his hives have gone. sorry for the book..Oh a good dog probiotic this will help too…good-luck

[Amy E]

Hello, I’m new here.
5 months ago I adopted Moby, a 9 year old miniature schnauzer. He was from a puppy mill and weighed 7 lbs. when I got him. He now weighs 12 lbs and the vet says he’s a good weight. He came to us with ear infections, which we treated and cleared up.

He developed some small itchy bumps on his head, neck, legs and chest, which he licked, scratched and rubbed his body along the furniture. Vet diagnosed skin infection due to stress or allergies. Rx: zeniquin & clemastine for 10 days with KetoChlor shampoo followed by Allergroom shampoo daily for 3 days, then twice weekly for 2 weeks.

At 10 day recheck: All bumps healed and went away during the 2 weeks, except for one new bump on chest so 3 more days of zeniquin prescribed and continuing clemastine until winter arrives. Also supposed to bathe with the 2 shampoos once every 2 weeks.

Well… the bumps have returned on his head and neck. They started with just one here and there and have increased daily over this week. He’s starting to itch, rub and lick more again, even though he is still taking clemastine.

I feed him Eagle Pack Holistic Salmon kibble, but he also gets various treats (chicken based) and yogurt daily along with various other things like pumpkin, fresh veggies, fruit and sardines.

He came from Oklahoma and now lives in Minnesota. It just so happened that winter ended and spring began around the time we got him…the same time he started a new diet at our house…so it’s hard to know if his allergies are environmental or food based without testing (I’m considering doing a home-based test like Immune IQ). I suspect a life of poor diet and low exercise has weakened his immune system and now he’s more susceptible to everything, causing skin reactions. Besides the bumps, he has no other issues with his skin or coat (no hair loss, raw patches, etc). He has no digestive issues either. He’s a happy little guy, always wagging his tail, eats voraciously, sleeps like a log, potties on schedule (output looks good).

Do you think I should switch to a different food with fewer ingredients? If so, what? I’m going to eliminate the yogurt. We have another [senior] dog so feeding completely raw is cost prohibitive for me.

Thanks in advance for your help and advice.

[Glen B]

I recently rescued a 7-8 year old Pitbull that is too thin. I had him tested for worms and that came out negative. I think the problem is he runs around outside a few hours a day and would like to try and fix it with diet before anything else. I have no idea how much he weighs right now, but by looking at him I’d guess he needs to gain 10-15lbs.

He’s been on raw for a week. He was looking better on Taste of the Wild kibble, but for the price it was costing a week..it obviously isn’t cost effective.

I’ve been looking at “Satin Ball” or “Fat Ball” recipes in addition to his regular raw. My concern is that by putting grains in with raw meat, wouldn’t I be messing with his digestive system? Is the point of the grains wheat germ or oats specifically just for the carbs? I’d like something like oats since I could just get it out of the bulk bins at the health food store..but will it mess with his digestive system or is it just adding calories? I rather just add some carbs for calories rather than substitute with kibble.

Is it possible to go too high in fat? I’m also adding about 1/2 cup of whole milk yogurt to his food along with fish oils and 2 raw, jumbo eggs with shell a day..since I can get eggs super cheap.

Why do people say beef puts more weight on than chicken? I can get a case of chicken leg quarters much cheaper than I can full fat beef..ground or whole. I’d like to keep this as cheap as possible and am already a member of the local co-ops.

[Dori]

Yep! My three girls together probably make up one of yours. I’m so glad the poop situation is getting under control. Everything else will follow eventually. Your dogs are going to become so much healthier. Again, try to avoid any food that has any feathered friend in it. It takes a while to figure it all out. As I say, Katie came to me this way at 9 weeks old. She just turned 5 years old and something always needs a little tweaking with her. The other two girls can eat everything any anything with no problems. Do keep me posted. Glad things seem to be turning around. The one small poop a day is the way it’s suppose to be on a raw diet. The guts utilizing almost all the nutrients in the food and there really aren’t any fillers to mess with there systems.

[theBCnut]

Cats do best long term on wet foods. The most common cause of death in cats is kidney failure, which they attribute to an unnaturally dry diet. They do kind of imprint on the type of foods they are fed when young, so if you only feed dry, later they will refuse canned. Introducing raw and canned young is very important.

[Ysabella J]

Okay cat people, I am in dire need of some help. A friend of mine found an abandoned kitten that she couldn’t keep. I ended up taking care of her and in the meantime fell in love with her. Took her to the vet for a check up, got her dewormed with panacur and albon, and also sent out a fecal that came back negative. The vet believes she is about 5 weeks old. I have been feeding her raw goats milk and Taste of the Wild dry food. Cat food is fairly new to me as I feed my dog half raw & half Orijen, and never had a cat of my own, only ones that I grew up with. I am wondering if there is something too rich in her diet? She has had very loose stools for 4 days now.. I have had her for 6 days. What do I do? I am considering ground turkey, pumpkin, and rice… Poor kitty has to go so often and I’m constantly bathing and cleaning up after her. The vet says she’s hydrated and she has been drinking plenty of water.

What to do?

[Dori]

Hi BRT. I just read an earlier post of yours that I must have missed. Please don’t let your dogs bring their dog food and drop it on the carpet to eat it. Not just raw, there are way many more cases of salmonella with kibble then raw diets. The issue with Salmonella is not your dogs getting sick unless they already have a major underlying illness, it’s humans that get the salmonella. It is you who have to wash your hands after handling raw (as you would with any raw food for humans that you handle), also clean counter, etc. anything that touched the raw food. As I say, just as you would when you’re preparing your own dinner. What most people fail to realize is that you must also wash thoroughly kibble that carries way more issues than raw.

If any of them are still having gas, bad breath, etc. that is also part of detoxing. Perfectly normal so long as it doesn’t last too long.

I also missed that you’ve started with the Venison NV raw. That’s good. Oh, I just thought of what I read earlier on one of your posts. If you’re dog is allergic or intolerant to chicken then I would stay away from anything that has feathers. Chicken, Quail, Turkey, Duck, etc. etc. and once again any food you feed make sure there is no chicken fat, turkey meal, etc. somewhere on the ingredient list. It’s easier finding raw foods without quite so many ingredients. Venison, Bison, Buffalo. Those are good to try EVENTUALLY down the line once he’s all healed. Katie doesn’t do well with beef if I feed it more then two days in a row but she has no issues whatsoever with buffalo. Originally I had just assumed when I discovered the beef issue that it would be all red meat but that’s not the case. Good Luck and keep us posted. I’m feeling much better so I’ll try to keep up with your progress. Just be patient. Why are you smelling their food anyway, LOL. If you think Venison smells bad then you’ll pass out if you ever feed Tripe. Now that is just plain n-a-s-t-y!!!!!!!

[RescueDaneMom]

There are some recipes at the beginning of this thread by Hound Dog Mom. I use 2 books for my homemade raw: 1- unlocking the canine ancestral diet by Steve Brown and 2- real food for healthy dogs and cats by Beth Taylor and Karen Becker. If you are looking for quick and easy, Steve Brown makes a premix for boneless meats called See Spot Live Longer Dinner Mix. You mix about a tablespoon or two (can’t remember which) with one pound of boneless lean meat. I imagine it would be much more cost effective for you than Primal.

[SandyandMila]

That was such a great example. Lots of people don’t transition their dogs to raw due to the cost. But if someone can make feeding a Great Dane look more cost effective than it’s definitely worth a shot. I was going to add that if you have a local co-op or wholesale supplier you can get things like RMBs in bulk that’ll last you for awhile and worth the price. http://www.dogaware.com/diet/rawgroups.html

[RescueDaneMom]

Hey Zach,

First, it’s going to depend on the size of the dog you are feeding. I have a 150lb Great Dane that eats 3 lbs per day which is about 90 lbs per month.

I used to feed 50% commercial raw and 50% The Honest Kitchen and my food bill was upwards of $300 per month.

I just started making homemade raw. I’m using Steve Brown’s recipes from Unlocking the Canine Ancestral Diet. The chicken recipe uses half chicken necks and half boneless, skinless thighs with heart and liver. The chicken recipe cost me less than $2/lb to make, closer to $1.50. The beef recipe cost a bit more because beef is expensive. I think it averaged out to be around $3-3.50/lb. This is significantly cheaper than commercial raw which I was paying anywhere from $4.50 to $6.00/lb for. When you need to feed 3lbs per day the savings add up.

Since I just started I don’t have a monthly food bill yet but I’m guessing it will be around $200. It should be a cost savings of $100/month for me.

I hope this helps.

[Linsey H]

Hi there, I started reading these forums back when I was first researching a puppy, and so far it has served me well, though I finally have a question. I know that there is a separate thread for large breed puppies, but I felt like my question might have been a bit too long and complicated for it.

I have a 21w, 45lb female Shiloh Shepherd and she has recently started teething. I have been restricting her calcium pretty thoroughly, though I have heard from several reliable people that I should be giving her more during her teething phase. My internet searches so far have been unhelpful and I have not found much scientific data on large breeds and teething. I am also a little concerned with her current diet ratios, so if I am doing something terrible, I am hoping that someone can call me out on it. So far my puppy has been putting on steady 2 pounds a week, with the exception of a few ~3lb/week growth spurts. She does appear to get occasional growing pains still though.

Her current diet:
She receives two meals a day which consist of kibble and toppers, and since she is a puppy she still receives a significant amount of training treats. I have been using http://www.animalmedicalcenterofchicago.com/pdf/CalorieRequirementsForDogs.pdf as a rough guideline for calories- my puppy gets roughly 1.1-1.3k C from kibble and then 200-500C from toppers, chews and training treats. I have read that large breeds have slightly different requirements after 4mo, plus my puppy is decently active- she walks a lot, plays plenty of fetch, and then gets at least 1 hour of dog play through various outlets daily. I generally adjust how much she gets of what based on what she did that day, and she has been staying very lean and well muscled.

For kibble, her breeder had her on Earthborn Holistic: Meadow Feast, and since that was on Hound Dog Mom’s list and had the right amount of calcium I have kept her on it. The breeder also suggested using Flexicose and Missing Link Puppy as supplements- I am not sure if Missing Link is the best, but the breeder said that the calcium amounts checked out (only the min is on the package).

For toppers, she almost always gets a tablespoon of pumpkin and then either raw green tripe, a raw ground mix from our butcher, or canned PetKind. The raw mix consists of 10% green tripe, 10% organs, and 80% beef – it is bone free and has been the main thing reducing calcium in her diet. As of last month, I have started giving my puppy either a raw (irradiated) egg or a chicken wing every 2-3 days (whenever she finishes .75-1lb pound of the supplement). I had read somewhere that a chicken wing contains ~1.86g of calcium and 89g total with ~38% being bone, though my math is still somewhat guestimate-y. I also have backs and necks, but I was under the impression that they had more calcium.

For treats, she either gets soft Buddy Biscuits (grain free), dried/dehydrated meat, lamb lung, Orijen treats, or cooked chicken- she definitely prefers softer treats and no is no longer interested in kibble rewards (she spits it out in training). When I had her on only meat-based rewards, she started to get a little snobbish so I reintroduced the Buddy Biscuits, but I am not sure that they are the healthiest option. I try to limit the amount on normal days to 100C, and then for days she has class (or if I work with her on a lot of new behaviors) she gets 200-300C.

For chews, she either gets Beams (fish skin), bison trachea (dehydrated, I have not been able to find raw/frozen), or tendon- though she is not as interested in the last two since she has been teething. Pumpkin filled kongs have been another option, though she is not a big kong fan. Lamb lung, jerky, or sweet potato, are rare accompaniments to the pumpkin. She is a gentle chewer and only finishes the beams in a single session. She is no longer interested in fruit/veggie chews. For teething, I have tried frozen towels/ropes soaked in a broth solution, but she has yet to go for them. Her favorite “chew” is definitely the raw bones, but I don’t want to give her too many due to calcium levels.

Anyways, my core question is this:
Does her current diet seem too far out of balance?

With the follow-ups being these:
1) Am I giving her too many calories in unbalanced toppers and treats?
2) Is my puppy getting too much or not enough calcium?
3) Are there other raw chewing options with less calcium (unless she needs more)?
4) Are there any specific books I should read in addition to Dr. Becker and Steve Brown’s books?
5) What are some of the better online resources for buying raw? My local butcher shop is pretty great, but unfortunately they don’t carry everything.

[Bobby dog]

Aquariangt – ever think about raw for your kitty? I have some very picky eaters too. lol Just fed some NV medallions today and was thinking of your quandary. Only a few of my cats will eat Nature’s Variety raw and that is only a few times a month. One cat will even do dehydrated every now and then. I figure even if it is only a few days a month, it gives them a little more of a variety in their diet.

Since it’s clearly cat food review day, here are mine:
I came across some sales while I was stocking up on pet food for the month and tried out some foods I would not normally buy.
Wellness Divine Duos, same experience as everyone else, my cats ate the pate’, ate all the gravy, and either left the chunks or ate a little bit of them. Finally tried Chicken Soup for the Cat Lovers Soul, all but one cat liked it. I am going to add this to my rotation. Also tried Nutro Max Cat Chic & Lamb Sr, only Archie liked it, and Chic & Liver, a couple of my cats liked it; adding Chic & Liver to my rotation.

~Natural Balance Platefulls BOGO – I tried the chicken and salmon recipes. It is packaged in a pouch and has very large chunks with gravy. Only Archie liked it and he didn’t even finish it all, he left some chunks behind.
~Science Diet GF on sale 10 cans/$8 – only had chicken left. The picture on the label looked like it was small chunk style, but it is pate’ style. It has vegetables listed on the ingredients, but they are cut very, very small and mixed in well. The only hint of vegetable is some specks of orange from the carrots. I liked that because my cats only eat around the veggies. Most of my cats liked it and ate it for a few days. Not sure what the retail price is; I would buy it again.
~Blue Buffalo Spa Select Turkey & Chic – this was on the clearance rack so I thought I would give it a try. All but one cat liked it. It is pate’ style and it was very similar to Chicken Soup for the Cat Lover’s Soul. I would buy this again.

C4c:
I hope your pup is okay.

I am glad you’re doing better today. You didn’t over react and you kept it very cordial. Anyone who comes to DFA for over a year will come across a discussion or two on vaccs and titers and is well aware of the controversy. A few things this site teaches is to make the best decision for your circumstance(s) and do the best you can within your budget for your pets. You do that and more for your fur babies. Anyone who tries to make your feel guilty for your choices, insinuates you would compromise your dogs’ health by boarding them, or would ignore the risks of vaccination is mistaken. 🙂

[Michele N]

I’ve done my research with my dog for the past 5 years, as he’s had issues since I’ve had him. I KNOW how to read a label, and believe me, I’ve spent more time doing that than anyone I know. I am not an idiot that doesn’t know how to read ingredients, and I am offended at Dinovite, who sent me an ingredient list, of a dog food, that is NOT even what I feed my dog. Maybe THEY should do their research before sending out an email of an ingredient list of a completely different dog food then what I feed my dog. It’s pretty ignorant if you ask me. I have the privilege of knowing pet nutritionist, holistic vets, and have come to my own conclusions, that feeding raw is the very best option, especially if you use your own human food, because then you know exactly what your dog is eating. Unfortunately I cannot afford to feed him this on a daily basis, nor do I always have the time to prepare it for my 3. I am lucky to have 2 excellent pet food stores, not big commercial chain stores, that actually do their research and buy high quality dog and cat food. I switched to grain free years ago, but until I found a brand that used a very limited amount of ingredients did my poor allergy sufferer get any true relief and his skin infection cleared up,and all of his fur grew back. I also think taking him to an allergist and having him tested for every ingredient in dog food, is not only ridiculously expensive, but it’s a huge waste of money. The fact being that the dog food companies use fillers with their mix of vitamins, some of which come from China and India. This is NOT listed on the ingredients on any package including this Dinovite stuff. So that being said, none of us REALLY know every single ingredient in dog food, or premixed vitamins, like Dinovite. Who knows where they get the fillers used to bind the vitamin mix. Who knows for sure what is truly in it? Fact is, my dog is allergic to the outside environment and there isn’t anything I can do to prevent that, which is partly why I wanted to try this Dinovite to help him with this time of year, as they claim the vitamin mix helps dogs with yeast and allergy issues. But instead of helping him, it made him break out with red bumps all over his body, and now we have to deal with a skin infection. There is obviously something in this product that he is very allergic to. So my question is, why is this company putting ingredients in their product, that could cause these severe allergic reactions in dogs that already have immune suppressed systems? Why are they telling people to put their dogs on a yeast free, and grain free diet, yet put those ingredients in their supplement? It seems highly irresponsible of this company to CLAIM to help these dogs, only to make them worse. I can use my own supplements in my dogs food, which is what I was doing, without issues, so I guess, yes , I should’ve known better. Any product out there that CLAIMS to be a cure all, is really a SCAM! I have learned to trust my better judgement, and know that most of these pet products are full of crap. Literally! Also explain to me why when I emailed Dinovite, telling them since putting my dog on it, he is itchier, that,they told me that I need to keep him on it longer because I haven’t given it enough time to do it’s work? Maybe they need to hire some reputable people that give out good advice instead of just caring about their pocket book. Maybe they need to put a disclaimer on their product, stating that this supplement may actually make your dog sicker than he was before starting him on it, and may require you taking him to the vet and paying out enormous vet bills to fix the problem that our product may cause your pet. This product may have helped other dogs that don’t have poor immune systems that can handle the crap they put in this product.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi Jason –

Victor is a great food – just be aware that the only two formulas with calcium levels appropriate for large breed puppies are the chicken and rice formula and the lamb and rice formula. He’ll be fine if you switch him to a good food now, at only three months old a doubt there has been any dietary damage. 🙂 Raw meaty bones are – imo – the best chew. However, because he’s still growing and bones are high in calcium I’d limit to only once or twice a week. Things like turkey necks, chicken backs, etc. are all great. Raw tracheas are another wonderful chew for puppies – they’re nice and gummy and not too hard. If you aren’t comfortable feeding raw bones you could go with natural chews such as bully sticks or dried tracheas (just make sure they’re from a reputable company).

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi Dawn –

If you’re feeding a balanced raw diet, it’s not necessary to add any supplements. However, there are many supplements that may be beneficial. Probiotics are a great way to support gut health – you can purchase probiotic supplements or mix in some kefir or plain yogurt with his meals. Omega 3’s are a wonderful way to support a a healthy skin and coat, provide ant-inflammatory benefits and support the immune system – you can purchase a high quality fish oil or feed tinned sardines and/or cage-free eggs a couple times per week. There are various nutraceuticals that have various health promoting properties you may want to consider – I personally like to make a “blend” of items such as bee pollen, spirulina, kelp, chlorella, turmeric, etc. Swanson Vitamins is a great site to shop for supplements, I do the majority of my supplement shopping for both my dogs and myself there. They’ve got a lot of great stuff and the best prices I’ve found.

[Michele N]

I have a 5 year old German Shepherd who has had allergies since he was just a pup. We have tried just about everything out on the market to relieve his itching. He has itched his fur off at times, and it is black underneath. He has a yeasty smell to him. He had to be on steroid shots when he was younger due to his terrible outbreaks and skin infections. He gets worse in the summer, but his problem went year round. Until I got sick of having him on high doses of Benadryll and taking him to the vet for the allergy medicine, which really didn’t help the problem, just gave him a little relief. After a year of me spending hours of researching nutrition , and yeast problems in dogs, I stumbled upon a dog food, that pretty much saved my dogs life. It is Dr. E’s Limited Ingredient Grain and Potato Free Food. It only contains 5 ingredients. For the first time in his life, my dogs fur grew back and he stopped itching and he didn’t smell anymore. I also have him on supplements, probiotics, digestive enzymes by Mercola, Jointsaver, & Lysine. This spring came all the pollens and grass which he is also allergic to, and he started itching again. Although this time he didn’t scratch off his fur. He just had some hot spots, and so I had a friend suggest trying Dinovite, because he said it was helping his dog. I can say that since I put him on this supplement, about a week and a half, he has been itching himself until he bleeds. I emailed the company and they said that was not enough time for the product to work. So I continued a couple more days, and now I am ready to toss this stuff in the garbage. I am so steaming furious, that this company would put out a product that contains yeast as an ingredient, and a ground grain sorghum, and then tell you to put your dog on a yeast and grain free diet, makes no sense to me. I don’t know where they source their ingredients, maybe China, I don’t know, but what I do know is that my dog hasn’t been this bad off in years. He has red bumps all over his legs, back, stomach, groin, even his tail. He is so miserable, that now I may have to have him go back on the terrible medicine I wanted him off of. He has bad hips and elbows and arthritis, so the last thing he needs to be on are steroids. But now it seems as if he has a horrible skin infection after being on this product. We haven’t changed anything else in his diet , so I know for sure, that this reaction is caused from the Dinovite. I absolutely DO NOT recommend giving ANY dog this product that has allergies, immune disorders, pancreatic disorders, or skin problems. He was doing oK, with his allergies, he was itchy, but he didn’t have these red bumps all over his body, and he wasn’t scratching himself bloody. Now I am going to have a huge vet bill, on top of a very miserable dog. I am One very UNHAPPY customer. I should have known better. The less ingredients he has in his diet , the better. There is no miracle cure for allergies, and any product that claims to be, is lying. The only thing you can really do, is limit your dogs ingredients, find a food that has limited ingredients or feed a raw diet so that you know exactly what your dog is eating. Use human grade supplements recommended by a holistic vet, and research dog nutritionists and find one and talk to one if you can. And if you dog is allergic to pollen and grass like mine is, give them baths frequently after they’ve been outside. I use Zymox enzymatic shampoo and rinse. I also have used Dermagic and all of their products are fantastic, especially the hot spot salve. It doesn’t just sooth the itchy skin, it takes the hot spots away. I am mad that I got sucked in to this SCAM at my dogs expense!

[Zach M]

What are your guys costs per month for feeding a raw diet

[crazy4cats]

Hi Regina-
Bummer! That doesn’t help any, does it? Yes, make sure you ask exactly what they tested for because they do have different tests for different issues. Did they send it out to a lab? ACV stands for apple cider vinegar. If you buy it, make sure to get the unfiltered kind. It contains the “mother” and is kind of cloudy. It is extremely strong, so make sure you dilute and start with a small amount. I don’t use it regularly, but I guess others do. I also see it listed in some ingredients. It is in the raw nuggets that I occasionally feed. As for avid, I don’t know what that is either. Good luck with your elimination diet.

[DogFoodie]

I’ll let Shawna, our resident expert on kidney disease, know that you could use her help.

Also have you ever considered a raw diet? Darwin’s has one formulated by Dr. Barbara Royal. They’re also happy to work with your vet on getting the best diet for your dog.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi Pacer –

A balanced homemade raw diet is cheaper and better quality than commercial raw foods. However, it takes a little research to learn to formulate a balanced homemade raw diet. I always recommend those new to making raw check out “Unlocking the Canine Ancestral Diet” by Steve Brown. If done properly, feeding raw can be about the same cost as feeding a 5 star kibble. I keep costs low by purchasing my meat in bulk and making use of cuts that are less appealing to humans and, therefore, cost less per pound – such as heart, gizzards, green tripe, etc. For a dog with a compromised immune system, it would probably be a better idea to feed a home-cooked diet or a commercially available “raw” diet that has undergone high pressure processing (HPP) to destroy pathogenic bacteria. If you do want to feed raw to your dog with cancer I would suggest consulting with a knowledgeable holistic veterinarian first.

[pacer1978]

Hello HDM,

I am researching the forums trying to find some answers to my questions and found this thread.

I hope you can help me with a quick question. I have been introducing my dogs to raw a little over time. I have fed them Nature’s Variety and right now they have Primal as well. Most of their food is kibble based (Earthborn, NV, or Fromme). My first question is whether the commercial raw foods are ideal or is it best to purchase the raw (human) food from the supermarket and make it yourself? I do have three dogs (2 Weimaraners and one mix-40lbs), so to keep cost down would be helpful. IS there a cost effective way of feeding raw?

On a side note, we received bad news last week that our 40lb dog, Lucy (the mix), has lung tumors. We’ve only had her for 4 years and took her in as a stray wandering our neighborhood. I have read recently two different perspectives. One, that raw is bad for a dog that already has a lower immune system, but also read articles claiming that a raw diet, with fresh Kale and Turmeric is a good idea to feed a dog that has cancer. Any ideas which is best? Should I discontinue the raw in Lucy’s diet altogether?

[Akari_32]

Just an update on Bentleys new routine:

His hair is growing back, and he’s very noticeably less itchy. I keep meaning to get some whatever/iodine stuff, but when I get off work, the only thing on my mind is getting the heck outta there lol But I’ve been using that shampoo from PetFlow. Says to use it a few times a week for a month, then once a week after that. Do you think it would be ok to rotate through three different types of medicated shampoo? I’ve got some ProSence Allergy and Itch Shampoo in addition to that Vets Choice and whatever that Pet Flow stuff it.

But he loves his new foods (having quality issues with the PB right now, so he’s gotten raw for the last couple nights lol). Mom keeps insisting that he’s starving, and keeps feeding him treats and junk. I’m ready to kill her. Come to find out, she’s been feeding the cat as well. Not only does that screw my rotation up, but it wastes the food because he doesn’t eat later when he’s supposed to! She may come up missing…. Anyways, Bentley just needs to adjust to his new diet before I change how much I’m feeding him. Right now he’s getting a half can a day. I do think I’m gunna have to up it to 2/3 to 3/4 after a while. He has a bunch of raw treats, so I’m gunna try to avoid upping his canned, and just fatten him up on raw treats. We’ll see lol

Also, he’s starting to get tear stains. There is nothing I hate more on a dog than tear stains. I don’t think you understand I hate them lol Hopefully it’s just a detox thing from dry to canned, but if it persists, I won’t be happy.

[Cassandra S]

Hi there! I’m new to the forum, but I follow DFA news as closely as possible.

I own two pitbull mixes. Emma is a 2 year old German Shepherd/Pit Bull mix with back leg/hip problems. She has not be diagnosed with hip displaysia, but I have been told to put her on glucosamine/chondroitin supplements. Zooey is a 1 year old Pit Bull/possible Labrador mix…(not quite sure what she’s mixed with.) Both dogs are rescues.

Emma and Zooey both have gas issues. Lately Emma has been vomiting at least 2 or 3 times a week. Occasionally she vomits up pieces of kibble, other times its just foamy with bits of grass. Both dogs are a little picky. It’s been impossible to find a food that they both like. They are currently on Purina Dog Chow (which I hate, but I had to do it because of budget constraints) but I am looking to switch them over to a better quality food that won’t break my wallet (or my boyfriend’s). In the past, I had Emma on Blue Buffalo Wilderness, but she stopped eating it; I then switched her to Nature’s Variety Duck. She liked it for a while but then she started to only eat the freeze-dried raw kibble and not the rest of her food. Then I switched her to Merrick’s Bison and Sweet Potato recipe, but she began to chew incessantly on her legs to the point where she was going bald. This is about the time I rescued Zooey.

Zooey was on Vet Prescribed Science Diet. She ate it and then Emma started eating it. It concerned me because it was a puppy food and Emma has problems with her legs and I didn’t want her to gain weight and create more issues. I eventually put both of them on Purina True Instinct (the turkey venison one?) and they both liked it and ate it up, but again Emma would begin to vomit occasionally. I then switched them to Taste of the Wild, but neither of them would touch it. I tried Merrick’s Pork and Sweet Potato recipe and Zooey loved it, but Emma once again began itching and chewing and I worried for her health so I switched to Nature’s Variety again, which neither of the ate…

Since I just recently moved and changed jobs, money has been tight, so that is the reason they ended up on Purina Dog Chow…

Any sort of recommendations would be greatly appreciated.

Neither dogs have allergy diagnoses, but I believe Emma may be allergic to fish (both Merrick foods had fish in them) since she had the itching and chewing problems.

[Dori]

BRT. Yes I do feed NV Raw and the girls have been eating the Venison for a few days. It’s difficult for me to tell you how long the bag lasts us because I feed rotation constantly. I know some feed rotation diet after each bag or two of food then switch to something else. I feed the girls as I would feed my husband and myself. Something different pretty much every meal or every other day, etc. I usually have a few different raws in the freezer. The only reason I use the bites is that the defrost really pretty quickly maybe 10/15 minutes so this way the food stays in the freezer part of the kitchen fridge and I just scoop out their meals just before feeding them. Also, the bites are good if you’ve forgotten to defrost something else for them the night before I just scoop out the NV Raw. I also like the Primal Pronto for that reason also.

Do the transition from whatever he’s eating very slowly. Slower than you would do kibble to kibble because it’s a big difference to their systems. If he’s been on pretty much what I consider crap foods then his gut will take a little time to adjust and detox from all the other stuff as his gut heals. Let us know how it all goes.

[Bobby dog]

Hi Anita:
Here are the supplements, foods, and products I used (and still do along with some new additions) to get rid of Bobby’s flea dermatitis and yeasty skin. Olive oil flea dip, Nolvasan shampoo, raw eggs, bone broth, unrefined organic coconut oil, sardines/fish oil, MSM, and DE. Not too complicated or costly! This along with a new diet plan that I began last September helped to restore his health.

Dogs with severe yeast issues more than likely need a carb free diet to starve the yeast; carbs feed yeast and bad bacteria. All kibble has carbs because they require starch to bind the food into a kibble form. Your dogs would probably benefit from a grain free and low carb food preferably with no potato. Bobby’s yeast issues were bad, but it was not necessary to eliminate kibble from his diet. I did feed kibble that had low carbs and I only feed kibble that has average to low carbs now.
http://healthypets.mercola.com/sites/healthypets/archive/2011/05/03/eating-these-foods-can-make-your-dog-itch-like-crazy.aspx

Since September I have fed DFA rated 3-5 star kibble along with DFA rated 3-5 star canned food. After a few months on the new diet, I started alternating canned with fresh foods, dehydrated/freeze dried foods, or frozen commercial raw. By continuing with the supplements, feeding quality food and treats I went into this flea season with a healthy and fresh smelling dog. Fingers crossed no fleas on Bobby and it is rainy and very humid where I live, fleas are in full force.

It is very important not to make too many changes at once; this includes new foods! Start supplements in low doses slowly working towards the desired dose. If everything is okay, add another supplement. As far as shampoos, olive oil flea dip, and applying coco oil topically I used them right away and regularly without any worries because they provided immediate relief and were important for treating the yeast.

For a flea dip I used olive oil (from the grocery store) which has no long lasting effects, just immediate relief for the skin and to kill the fleas without chemicals. I did this outside so I did not have to worry about being tidy. Start under the chin and in the collar area working your way to the back, belly, and leg areas all the way to the tail. With Bobby I would just pour it on then massage it in to be sure his skin and between his toes were coated. His fur is not too thick or long. He loved the massage that came with it not to mention he was not itchy and uncomfortable while it was on him. The fleas pretty much disintegrate. Your dogs’ coats may be heavier than Bobby’s if you decide to try this, be sure to separate the fur, pour a little, and then work it in. I always left it on for an hour letting him run around and play, but you will definitely see their lifeless bodies after a short time so an hour is not necessary. Then I shampooed it off, it is easy to shampoo out; I even use olive oil as a conditioner for my hair.

I bathed Bobby once a week using Nolvalsan shampoo mostly. I always shampooed twice leaving the first application on for at least 10 minutes. I can’t find Nolvasan on-line so they may not make it anymore. Hibiclens or the drug store equivalent has the same ingredients as Nolvalsan. Malasab shampoo is a popular choice and highly recommended by many posters on DFA. I also used EQyss Micro-Tek medicated shampoo when the condition became less severe. You can find Micro-Tek on-line and in some pet stores. With your size of dogs I would look into a large bottle of Malasab shampoo, but in a pinch you could always purchase the Hibiclens or generic equivalent at a drug store.
http://www.drugs.com/vet/malaseb-shampoo.html
http://www.eqyss.com/pet_microtek_shampoo.asp
http://www.vetstreet.com/nolvasan-shampoo

The biotin in eggs is great for the skin and hair. I fed Bobby one raw egg a week. However, he recently decided he no longer likes raw eggs so we have poached eggs on Sundays. He gets a one minute egg and I get a two minute egg. lol
http://www.dogsnaturallymagazine.com/feeding-your-dog-raw-eggs-good-or-bad/
http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2005/02/09/raw-eggs.aspx

I made bone broth and fed it once a week. I still feed him bone broth weekly; Bobby weighs 44 lbs and I feed him ¼ – ½ C of broth.
http://www.dogsnaturallymagazine.com/reasons-your-dog-love-bone-broth/
http://healthypets.mercola.com/sites/healthypets/archive/2013/12/02/pet-bone-broth.aspx

The coconut oil must be organic and unrefined for all the benefits. I fed it 3x/wk as well as used it topically when needed as a soothing and healing salve; I tried feeding it 2x/wk after his skin healed, but found he benefits most eating it 3x/wk. Previously I bought Spectrum brand from Wal-Mart, 14 oz. for $8.99; they were cheaper than my health food store. I recently found organic unrefined coco oil at my BJ’s, 36 oz. for about $10. So if you belong to a price club, look for it there.
http://ottawavalleydogwhisperer.blogspot.com/2012/02/coconut-oil-is-good-for-your-dogs.html
http://www.whole-dog-journal.com/issues/16_11/features/alternative-treatments-updated_20861-1.html?pg=3
http://www.dogsnaturallymagazine.com/the-health-benefits-of-coconut-oil/
http://www.greenpasture.org/public/Products/InfusedCoconutOil/index.cfm

I started out feeding tinned sardines packed in water once a week, but I failed to keep it in my pantry on a regular basis. So I switched to a fish oil supplement. You can find many good fish oil supplements for dogs on-line and in pet stores. I used CVS 1000 mg fish oil tabs 3x/wk and I still supplement his diet with it. Tinned sardines packed in water would be the healthiest choice. I tried cutting back to 2x/week, but he developed a little dandruff so I am now back to 3x/week.
http://www.whole-dog-journal.com/issues/15_12/features/Fats-Chance_20658-1.html
http://www.whole-dog-journal.com/issues/15_9/features/Fish-Oil-Supplements-For-Dogs_20600-1.html
http://healthypets.mercola.com/sites/healthypets/archive/2009/06/13/the-frequently-missing-ingredient-in-your-pet-s-diet-that-could-devastate-their-health.aspx

MSM helped to relieve and heal his itchy skin. MSM has other benefits that may be helpful for your dogs as well. I use only100% pure MSM powder with no fillers or flavorings. You can find pure MSM marketed for dogs on-line and in pet shops.
http://www.dogsnaturallymagazine.com/msm-raw-fed-dogs/
http://www.vetinfo.com/msm-for-dogs.html
http://www.natural-dog-health-remedies.com/msm-for-dogs.html
http://essentials4all.org/100__Pure_MSM.html
http://wolfcreekranch1.tripod.com/naturvet_msm.html

I also used DE as a flea powder and for treating his environment. Some posters use garlic to repel fleas. Here’s some info:
http://www.dogsnaturallymagazine.com/garlic-for-dogs-poison-or-medicine/
http://www.springtimeinc.com/product/bug-off-garlic-dogs/All-Natural-Dog-Supplements
http://www.enonvalleygarlic.com/About_Garlic.html

Homepage

I was not fully aware of the important benefits of probiotics for our pets. I now feed kefir twice a week to Bobby for the probiotics. This would have made a tremendous difference with the healing process if I had used it during his skin/flea issues; if I only knew!
Probiotic info:
http://healthypets.mercola.com/sites/healthypets/archive/2010/10/26/advantages-of-using-pet-probiotics.aspx
http://probiotics.mercola.com/probiotics-for-pets.html
http://www.medicine4animals.com/23/Does-Your-Cat-or-Dog-Suffer-with-Digestive-Problems,-Skin-Problems-or-Poor-Immunity.html
http://ottawavalleydogwhisperer.blogspot.com/2012/05/foods-rich-in-probiotics-beneficial-for.html

ABC diet:
This is a download I highly recommend; it is $2.95 and worth every penny! I feed the ABC diet now throughout the week rather than in one meal. This is an easy way to enhance any kibble diet with fresh foods. I found this download after Bobby’s issues were cleared up, but I definitely would have followed it during that time. I believe it would have helped with the healing process.
http://www.seespotlivelonger.com/home/sll/page_41/see_spot_live_longer_the_abc_way___electronic_down.html

I recently started giving Bobby unflavored beef tendon and beef trachea chews. Here’s some healthy treat suggestions:
http://healthypets.mercola.com/sites/healthypets/archive/2012/02/10/easy-to-make-pet-treats.aspx

[RescueDaneMom]

I will definitely let you know, Linda. I imagine that Publix could probably special order for you, I just don’t know how their pricing would be. If you buy in bulk they’d probably give you a better buy. I have gotten chicken hearts, gizzards, and liver as well as beef heart and beef liver from Publix. I found beef kidney at Winn Dixie this past weekend. Ethnic supermarkets are also a great place for harder to find items.

Both books I recommended have ample information about supplementing so you are not lacking anything in the diet. Also, be sure to check out the Raw Food forum, especially the Suggested Menus thread. Hound Dog Mom is the queen of homemade raw food and balances her recipes from scratch. She even did a nutritional analysis on some of them. I’ve learned most of what I know about feeding raw from her posts and those two books. You have come to the right place to learn how to feed raw!

[BRT]

So, I decided to go with the NV Raw Venison Bites. I started them on it this evening. The person who sold me the food also feeds her dog raw and she recommended I don’t mix the kibble and the raw together while transitioning the foods. She said I should start with dinner and give them less kibble and then an hour later feed them a bit of the raw bites. Slowly do that until their dinner is completely raw. Then work on transitioning breakfast.

I took her suggestion and someone is a little gassy. I think it’s my maltese/toy poodle boy (the one with the allergy issues).

This food smells, too. They loved it, but I found the smell awful.

My other concern is that little rescue baby (shih tzu/yorkie) likes to bring his kibble into the living room and eat off of the carpet. He’ll bring a mouthfull at a time and drop it on the carpet. Obviously, I can’t have him doing that if I’m feeding him raw.

I also don’t want to get too paranoid about cross contamination. Like if they eat and then go play with a toy. Do I need to religiously wash the toy daily?

In addition to food allergies/intoleranc he also definitely has environmental allergies, as well.

I’ve never tried the food elimination diet. I’m not even sure I’d know where to start.

I also didn’t realize how expensive this food is. I guess I’ll be eating Ramen noodles for a while. Just kidding…. Anything to keep my boys healthy.

• This reply was modified 11 years, 6 months ago by BRT.
• This reply was modified 11 years, 6 months ago by BRT.

[RescueDaneMom]

Hi Linda,

I have a 8 year old Great Dane and live in Apopka, FL. I currently feed homemade raw. It is by far cheaper than buying commercial raw like Primal, Stella & Chewys, Bravo, etc. I still buy and feed it for some extra variety but using it as the basis of the diet will send your food bill skyrocketing.

There is a co-op for central florida raw feeders on yahoo groups. Here is the link (I hope it works), if not just search for it: https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/CentralFLRawFoodCo-op/info
I personally have never ordered from the co-op because they only have beef and their pickup time and location doesn’t work for me.

I am currently getting my meat from a meat market that supplies to the public as well as restaurants in Fort Pierce (I just moved from their 5 months ago and still go back on the weekends). I am currently looking into a supplier in Sanford called Hopkins Meat Packing.

I am following recipes by Steve Brown using his book “Unlocking the Canine Ancestral Diet.” I also have “Real Food for Healthy Dogs and Cats” by Dr. Karen Becker. Those are by far the best two in my opinion. Also, if your dog gulps his food or you are skittish about feeding whole bones (which I am), you might want to invest in a meat grinder. I bought one on Amazon for less than $90.

This is one of my favorite topics so please ask away. I’m sure more people will chime in too but I was so happy to see someone else in the Central Florida area! 🙂

-Caroline

[Susan]

Hi, have you ever tried an elimination cooked diet, its very rare for a dog to be allergic to that many proteins, Id be looking at the carbs the fillers in the kibbles that you have tried & it takes a good 3 weeks to see any results, the best way & I know it takes time is the elimation diet… start with a protein say turkey or duck with some pumkin mixed thru for one straight month, no treats nothing no other foods & with the carbs watch out for wheats, potatotes sweet potato any high carbs.. Brown or white rice are Ok, good as fillers when on elimination diets… I use pumkin as Patch get the runs from rice but not grounded rice is OK with him….any carbs that convert to sugars they make yeast thats what makes them stinky & itchy….Im going thru this with my dog at the moment, he normally doesnt itch in winter but he’s itchy this winter, so now Im looking at the food, before vet said it was grasses pollens etc but its winter & there’s no pollens at the moment, Like Betsy said Im trying the Wellness Simple limited ingredients range kibbles, Ive just bought Patch the Duck & Oatmeal Formula, it has no eggs, no gluten, no dairy, no corn, no by-products, no soy or No artificial preservarties, colours or flavours, its a good start, also can ur boy eat wet tin foods they dont have all the processed stuff that kibble have..Start all over again from scratch, thats what Ive been doing this week, Ive also been using human tin Salmon to replace Patches chicken mixed with pumkin he loves it, but I still havent started the Wellness Simple Duck kibble as the vet said 1 thing at a time, if Patch can handle the Salmon with his IBD then next week Im starting the Simple Duck but Ive given him a few simple Duck kibbles & he loved them so Im just using them as a treat for this week so far there’s been no diarrhea, the Wellness simple does have a Salmon & Potato kibble but Im trying the Oatmeal instead of too many potatos try & look at all the foods he has had & see what carb ingredient was in most of them then try a kibble that doesnt have the same Carb ingredients.. thats way Im trying the Oatmeal its something Ive never tried..keep us posted, Id like to know how he went & what food you choose..but Raw is the best if you can handle it.. http://www.wellnesspetfood.com/dog-wellness.aspx

[Bobby dog]

Hi Anita:
I will sort through your questions and add some links to the over the counter remedies that I used to completely heal Bobby! Remember, all dogs are different. Bobby had no health issues other than flea dermatitis, flea infestation, bad diet (please remember, anything they eat must be quality ingredients, it really makes a difference), and yeasty skin.

It sounds like you already have been to the Vet and there are no other health issues?

Did the Vet give him a steroid shot for the itching?

I really suggest feeding canned with kibble. Moisture is really important for healthy dogs and especially important for dogs that have some health issues. I always feed kibble with canned or fresh meat lightly cooked, or dehydrated, freeze dried or frozen raw for every meal. If you are going to TSC for DE, check out the 4Health canned dog food. It’s 99 cents/can and DFA rated 4.5 stars. I feed 4Health, Pure Balance from Wal-Mart ($1/can for stews and $1.25/can for 95%), and Earth’s Pride ($8.99/6 pack) from BJ’s as my main canned rotation.

4H DFA review:
/dog-food-reviews/4health-dog-food-canned/

4H TSC link:
http://www.tractorsupply.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/SearchDisplay?storeId=10151&catalogId=10051&langId=-1&pageSize=&beginIndex=0&searchSource=Q&sType=SimpleSearch&resultCatEntryType=2&showResultsPage=true&pageView=image&searchType=1002&autoSuggestURL=AutoSuggestView%3FcoreName%3DMC_10001_CatalogEntry_en_US%26serverURL%3Dhttp%253a%252f%252ftsc-prod-lb01.crossview.inc%253a3737%252fsolr%252fMC_10001_CatalogEntry_en_US&searchTerm=4health+wet+dog+food

I was wrong; you can buy 20 lbs of food grade DE for $12.99 at TSC. They carry it in the livestock feed section.
http://www.tractorsupply.com/product__10151_-1_10051_2789

Check out the Activyl site to see what they say about bathing your dog. Most products are waterproof, but you never know. The Vet Tech at my Vet’s office gave me info on it, but I never checked it out after I settled on Sentinel because it already had the flea egg killer in it and I want to use as little chemicals as possible.

For treats, stay away from carbs or anything sugary, it will only feed the yeast. I have never fed them, but posters here recommend The Honest Kitchen Beams. I haven’t fed treats from the pet store recently and find many have carbs and starches so I just make very, very small meatballs for Bobby (I freeze them) using 2 lbs of ground beef, an egg or two, fresh garlic, tumeric, and I add fresh basil, cilantro, or parsley if I have it. I also throw in any veggies I have, but if you decided to make something like this I would leave the veggies out for now. You can also slice meat as thin as you can and place the slices in the oven on the lowest temp and cook until they are like a jerky consistency.

It is not unusual for them to try and lick off the coco oil if they like it. It is a wonderful product and is good to feed and apply to skin irritations due to its antiseptic properties. Just try to supervise your pups so it can soak in, it really will make them more comfortable and the fleas don’t like the oil.

Probiotics is an important step to get their immune systems back on track too! Probiotics has helped my cat tremendously. I use plain Kefir or plain greek yogurt right now for him. He has grown hair in places that I thought would never come back! That is another story. I think you will see a tremendous improvement within a week of using probiotics with their coats and skin.

Everything that I used on Bobby you will find at Wal-Mart, drug stores, health food stores, on-line, or pet stores very easily. I will post tomorrow what I used to help Bobby and hopefully something or several things can help your guys as well.

[spaniel39]

I have had great luck with Sophie my 120 pound Komondor on
Nutrisource Large Breed Lamb (she was on large breed puppy previously but now
she’s 15 months old).
It gets great reviews and reasonably priced especially compared to Orijen or Acana.

Before that, she did well on canine Caviar Lamb Puppy dinner but was very expensive
plus they had a labeling problem, where there was a misprint on the bags showing
the puppy formula calcium level over 2% and did nothing about it
(Oh, the food inside is ok, we just need to use up the bags!!!)
Another good one I used but don’t anymore is Artemis’s Osopure Duck and garbanzo beans
but the big bags are $70.

Personally, not into the “raw” diet for my pups;
I do supplement their diet (have 2 springer spaniels also) with a very lean
Hamburger or turkey burger—cooked—once a week or 10 days.
They love green beans, blueberries, cooked spinach.
It’s great to supplement with veggies, etc

GLTA!

[Dori]

All my dogs (three toy breeds) are fed commercial raw diets as of about 1 1/2 years ago. I rotate brands as well as proteins. I can now rotate them from meal to meal without a slow transition but that took quite a while to accomplish. Their guts are now at the point that changing from protein to protein doesn’t bother them in the least. My favorite of the commercial raw brands are Primal Pronto (although any of their complete “Formulas” are great), Natures Variety Instinct Raw, Answers Detailed Raw (a bit hard to find), Darwin’s Natural Selection (that’s an auto delivery food only from their web site or by phone), Vital Essentials Raw. These are the brands that my dogs have thrived on. Some of the others are pretty popular also such as Stella & Chewy’s, etc. my dogs haven’t faired as well on the other brands. Since being on raw they no longer has goopy stuff coming from their eyes, tear stains are gone, no more yeasty ears, their skin and coats are healthy and very very shiny. Oh, also no more gas, gurgling tummies, no more smelly poops. You’ll find that their poops are much much smaller and firm enough to easily pick up and dispose of. Their bodies utilize more of the nutrition in raw than they do on kibble. Added benefit of raw is that they are grain free. Dogs don’t have a necessity for grains, white potatoes, corn, soy, etc. One of my girls is allergic to all things poultry (anything with feathers) so I avoid all of those.

Many people start their puppies right on raw after a couple of weeks being home. Usually when you bring a puppy home it’s best to keep them on their same food for a couple of weeks that they were eating at the breeder. Theory being that they are stressed enough going home with a stranger to a new environment with no familiar scents, missing litter mates, etc. But then you do a slow transition as if you were transitioning from kibble to kibble. Initially you may find that the puppy has some diarrhea but that will pass. What I did was purchase a product from The Honest Kitchen called Perfect Form and while I was transitioning them to raw (good for transitioning any foods really until they get healthy enough to transition without issues) I would add the recommended dose to each of their meals. Gets rid of the diarrhea almost instantaneously. At least that’s been my experience with the product. I no longer feed dehydrated foods because to me they’re not strictly raw. Not crazy about freeze dried either.

Commercial raw is more expensive than kibble but you’ve already been feeding ZiwiPeaks which is an expensive dog food already so it shouldn’t be too shocking. I believe raw is much healthier therefore you save a ton of money at the vet which makes up for the more expensive diet.

• This reply was modified 11 years, 6 months ago by Dori.

[inov8v]

if the food is too rich…any thoughts on a less rich brand…i like the notion of feeding raw diets…i decided on ziwipeak after a fair amount of research but would primal or one of the other 5 star brands be less rich or should i consider moving him from raw to something else given he’s a puppy?

[lmnordrum]

Jazz: Your dog sounds like he/she eats very well already. I was intrigued by the benefits of raw but can’t bring myself to feed it and I would be concerned about balancing out the nutritional needs. I am totally neurotic about kitchen sanitation and food safety and can’t bear the thought of the dog dragging around meat. Nor can I bring myself to even cut up a chicken for my own family. This is my first dog in 20 years and my housekeeping standards have dropped since I invited the animal into my life. I love my dog even though I clean more often, and am very happy that there is good kibble out there. From this list I learned about rotation diets which made sense in the event of a kibble manufacturer having a recall. But a raw diet is not something I am willing to do even though I think it would be cheaper to give the dog chicken than some of this kibble I’ve been buying.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi Jazz Lover –

Sounds like your dog is eating pretty well already! 🙂

Incorporating a little raw is definitely a great idea though if it’s something you’re able to do. You could check out the book “Unlocking the Canine Ancestral Diet” by Steve Brown – there’s a chapter on how to prepare a simple raw meal that you can feed once per week. The day you feed raw is called an “ABC Day.” Some other options would be to top the kibble with a balanced commercial raw or just keep some commercial raw in the freezer and feed a few meals of week of entirely raw. Or you could look at incorporating some raw meaty bones into the diet as a treat a few times a week – turkey necks, pork necks and chicken quarters are great for large dogs.

[lmnordrum]

Jazz Lover: If its working and your animal is healthy and thriving, why change? I give my dog good kibble (Wellness Core and Fromm) moistened with hot water and some coconut oil, and she’ll get cooked food from our meal, like meat and some plain rice. When I have some older eggs they get boiled and put on top of the kibble in lieu of meat. Dog gets small bits of cheese for treats and has no interest in fruit, veggies, peanut butter or bread. I do not feed my dog grains and she doesn’t seem to be missing them.

I have no guilt about not doing raw because frankly I can’t deal with it in my house. Plus the thought of raw meat and bacteria just freaks me out. As a cook I get grossed out by things such as bone-in chickens and large hunks of raw anything, and forget about anything that looks like it would on the animal itself (tongue, liver, etc.) If I didn’t function so much better on a higher protein diet I would probably be vegetarian. I would cook for my dog if she didn’t do well on the kibble. We are in a rural area and I could buy a cow or hog, but this is not something I have any interest to do. My dog does well on what she’s being fed and there’s no reason for us to change it. Plus she can be boarded on a kibble mixture. I can’t send her off to the kennel when I travel with 20 pounds of meat. lol

• This reply was modified 11 years, 6 months ago by lmnordrum.

[zcRiley]

Hi Akari 32! I know it’s frustrating & expensive when your precious pooch has signs of a miserable existence. I’ll be very brief as I want to throw out FOUR key items to attack and most importantly resolve the origin of the problem. Spend the money, keep the routine simple (stop adding things), be patient for results. Malaseb Shampoo. The Miracle Pack (Probiotic Miracle & Enzyme Miracle for a healthy digestive system). Brothers Complete Advanced Allergy Care (Dry Dog Food). As a reminder, a lot of raw food or canned food is NOT a “complete” diet, which in turn you have to start adding things (more money). Maybe you can save some money for a full blood work panel testing in the near future if all else fails. I wish you & your pups the very best of luck.

[crazy4cats]

Hi Jennifer P-
Welcome to DFA! First of all, there is no such thing as a perfect food. It is best, in many people’s opinions on this site, to feed a variety to your dogs. There is an article in the review site’s library about diet rotation. I have fed Blue in the past, but thought they were too expensive for what you get. Right now, I am feeding my dogs grain free Victor dry kibble. I also add a different topper almost every meal so they can get different benefits from the different foods. I’m not a Blue hater but probably would not feed it again. Find at least one more kibble that is a different brand with a different protein and starch binder to give them some variety. Print the best dry food list and bring it to the pet store with you, or even better yet, check them out on the internet on their own sites to compare. Also you can start adding canned, dehydrated, raw, eggs and/or sardines to their kibble to make it even healthier. Good luck!

[Cyndi]

meky6ra and Zach M this reply is for both of you. I have been feeding my 50lb. girl a raw diet for a little over a year. Here is a thread, in this Raw Dog Food topic, of mine that I started before I jumped in to raw feeding…

/forums/topic/help-with-starting-my-dog-on-a-raw-diet/

There is a ton of information on this site, especially in all the threads in the Raw Dog Food Topic. I asked questions, did a TON of research and was scared to death to start feeding my dog raw, lol! But, I did it, and my dog is healthy, happy and I am so glad I did. It is pricier than feeding kibble or canned food, but their are so many resources out there and raw feeding groups that can help cut down on the cost. I chose to feed my dog homemade raw, but there are alot of commercial raw products available that many people use and love.

Zach, You could start by giving your dog a turkey neck or a chicken back. It’s mostly bone, but has some meat on it. Your dog can consume the whole thing, bone and all. Unless your dog is a very voracious chewer or a gulper, you shouldn’t have any problems at all. Your dog will figure out how to crunch and chew the bone up and it is very good for their teeth.

Good luck to both of you! Take the time to ask questions and research and then, take the plunge…..your dog will love you for it! 🙂

• This reply was modified 11 years, 6 months ago by Cyndi.

[meky6ra]

This thread has blown my mind! I wonder if I can even think about affording to feed my dog raw! How much does it cost you guys monthly? How long has everyone been feeding raw? How would you transition a dog to a 100% raw food diet?

P.S. I’m sorry if those questions have already been answered!

[SandyandMila]

Now that you know what RMBs are you’ll probably be able to find a lot more easier locally than you thought you had. Attached is also another link you could use, actually the whole site is very informative, if you need help finding resources in your area. http://www.dogaware.com/diet/rawfoods.html I’m pretty new to raw myself, just started feeding about a year ago RMBs and commercial raw and hope to get started again very soon, the forum here is a great resource if you have any questions and everyone is very helpful.

[Dane H]

Thanks for your response. I am weary he needs any more calcium with the amount of ground bone and raw bones he already consumes. I was under the impression he received a large amount of vitamins and trace minerals from the organ meat. The “Natural Mix” that I mix in with the other grinds has ground green tripe, beef heart, and beef liver in it. Am I wrong to assume that? It would be the same concept as Eskimo’s getting all the nutrients they need by eating seafood, lard, and organ meat and extracting the same minerals and vitamins as someone in an equatorial climate getting all the nutrients from a diet heavier on fruits and veggies. What do you think?

[theBCnut]

As far as using whole carcass grinds, the fur and feathers are not digested. In dogs, they act as fiber, and help to keep everything moving through the digestive tract. All the digestive enzymes that are needed are in there naturally. Some dogs need digestive enzymes added when eating a kibble diet, but unless you have a dog with EPI or some like disease, you should not need to add digestive enzymes to raw, because there are enzymes in all raw meat. Cooking and processing destroys a lot of them.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi Dane –

First off, if he’s drinking large amounts of water, urinating frequently and he won’t gain weight you need to get him to the vet to have some diagnostic tests performed. These are potential symptoms of kidney disease or diabetes. A dog that’s fed a raw diet shouldn’t drink much water at all – my two (large) dogs don’t even drink one bowl of water per day between the two of them. I’m not trying to scare you but if something is going on the sooner you catch it the better the prognosis will be.

Second, are you adding anything to the Blue Ridge Beef grinds? Unless they’ve recently come out with a new complete and balanced product that I’m not aware of, I thought they just make meat/organ/bone grinds? Meat/organ/bone “grinds” (as they’re referred to) are not a balanced diet. They’re meant to serve as as the base of a meal and they make things simpler by already having the muscle meat, organ and bone in the correct proportions. Supplements still must be added to make the diet complete. While it’s possible to balance a homemade diet using whole foods only, for simplicity’s sake and to get him on a balanced diet as soon as possible, I’d recommend adding a multivitamin (look for one with <10% DV calcium – one I frequently recommend is Twinlab Daily One Caps). I’d also add 1/2 C. of cooked and pureed vegetables (baby food veggies are fine if you don’t want to cook and puree them yourself) and feed a tin of sardines or salmon once or twice a week OR add a capsule or two of fish oil daily. These additions will provide him with the vitamins and minerals he needs, a little fiber and omega 3 fatty acids.

• This reply was modified 11 years, 6 months ago by Hound Dog Mom.
• This reply was modified 11 years, 6 months ago by Hound Dog Mom.

[Dane H]

Hey,

New to the forum! My dog, Makai, is a 3 year old red heeler/Shepard/unknown mix. I started feeding him Blue Ridge Beef about 6 months ago. He has lost about 10 lbs since and looks pretty thin, so I have increased his food intake to 1.5 lbs per day split into 2 meals. I order in bulk to get a discount and get 15-2Lb chubs at a time. I order a even mix of a fattier beef, a leaner beef, chicken with bone, venison with bone, and a natural mix which has organ meat in it. I mix it all up and make 12 oz balls which is 1/2 of 1.5 pounds. This is all I feed him. I have noticed him drinking ridiculous amounts of water! I feel like it is much more than he used to before eating this new diet. I read that they will often drink less water when doing raw food because of how much water is contained in the raw meat. He also strains to poop sometimes I think because the chicken with bone and venison with bone feels like there is quite a lot of bone in the meat. I am worried I might be missing an integral part of his diet here, and was hoping someone could point me in the right direction. I am worried he is having issues, because I am having to let him out to pee like 6-8 times a day! It’s insane. Plus I can’t seem to get him to gain any weight.

[Sukh K]

Hi,

Mine is an year old, 100 pounds, not neutered, male Presa Canario we call BUGGA. I got him when he was 8 weeks and he has been on a raw based diet ever since. I was feeding him Healthy Paws (Canada) chicken, turkey, beef on a regular basis with bison and venison every two months (since those were more expensive). Within four months, he and my cats would not eat anything except beef. (Note: They had all rejected Salmon since day one) Later a different brand supplier told me that Healthy Paws adds some beef related fillers in almost all of their products and that could be one of the reasons that they had become addicted to beef and my cats still are to this day (they really haven’t had anything except beef for 7 months now, I’m not sure how healthy this is for them).

After two months of continuous beef, Bugga got sick and I still have no clue what had happened (my vet couldn’t determine exactly). He had gas issues and would throw up every three days, along with this constant smell which I suspect was the anal glands. He wouldn’t eat properly but was otherwise his usual self. The vet, although, a raw diet enthusiast, suggested that some dogs don’t do well on Raw and that I change his diet for a few weeks. I started feeding him Royal Canine wet food cans and his stomach/intestinal issues seemed to be curbed. After two weeks of this, I gradually put him back on Raw and to my relief he wasn’t just a beef addict anymore. He was more than happy to gobble up whatever came his way.

But in a month again, he had become picky and seemed bored with his food. He would eat some days and then not at all. He ate people food nonetheless, rice/cottage cheese/yogurt/cheese slices/loves flat-bread. I alternate between brands (Bold Raw and Naturaw) to keep him interested, even switched to hormones and antibiotics free products, added green tripe and raw eggs, used probiotics, digestive enzymes, omega 3-6-9 oils, vit E oil, diatomaceous earth, organic pumpkin and sweet potato, coconut oil, kelp mix.

Now, I have had to mix in Kibble (Nature’s Variety Grain free)! He ate the raw food with kibble for a week or two, I haven’t bought more kibble. He can go hungry for a day but not eat any more raw and then reluctantly eat it to satisfy the hunger. I really want to help him and give him what his body wants, but I am so lost now. I don’t know how to get him excited about some good raw food again. I want to know if I feed him kibble or other canned food for a while, is it possible that he doesn’t go back to raw at all. Has anyone else faced something similar with their dog?