[winstonandporter]

Hi Emily
you sound as though you have done a great job with your lab! I agree with InkedMarie in that senior dogs should have more protein. I am a strong advocate of the raw diet, yet I am not saying that you should change to this, but adding raw meat can massively increase protein in senior dogs. Here is a sample diet for you to try if you want:

Morning
6 ounces (3/4 cup) beef heart
2 ounces (1/4 cup) beef kidney
1 egg

Evening
8-12 ounces of (1-1 and a half cups) chicken necks or backs

I have a blog on the website too if you want to read about feeding senior dogs and raw food diets. Won’t put the link on as it may be prejudicial, just google us. Anyway good luck and as an owner of senior dogs myself I can totally relate to your situation. Good luck! Dev

[Susan]

Hi, are you 100% sure its not Environment allergies as well??
My boy has both, he has seasonal allergies worse in the summer months, fine in the winter months as long as he doesn’t eat any foods he’s sensitive too, then he starts to smell real yeasty & itches… When they’re sensitive to certain food they start to itch & smell real yeasty…
Summer is about to start in Australia & I always rotate Patches kibbles Winter he eats limited ingredient kibble, Lamb as the protein & Summer a Fish kibble you, need too increase the Omega 3 in his diet & always read the Omega 3 & 6 on kibble packet or look on their internet page or email the kibble company & ask what is the omega 3 & 6 % Please.
There’s a lot of kibbles that are tooo high in omega 6 & too low in omega 3 causing skin problems, omega 3 should be around 1/2 of what the omega 6 says..
I’m starting to introduce “Holistic Select” Salmon, Anchovy & Sardine Adult/Puppy grain free formula, it’s only 32% carbs or look at “Earthborn Holistic” Coastal Catch it’s 29% carbs & the omega 3 & 6 is balanced properly in both these kibbles.
Raw is the best as it has no carbs, I feed Patch 1 meal cooked, lean pork mince made into rissoles & add sweet potato, this way he’s not eating heaps of dry kibble.
Baths, make sure your bathing weekly too wash off any allergens & pollens & yeast on the skin Malaseb relieves their itch making them heaps more comfortable…

Have you seen a Dermatologist ? & tested to see if ur dog isn’t allergic to dust mites or other allergens around the house.??

[InkedMarie]

I have a yeasty dog & after years of going back and forth, the only thing that worked was a raw diet, one with no produce.

[Kim H]

My 4 year old female lab has crystals in her urine and her PH was up. An xray also showed a stone. She had struvite stones removed in July 2015 and now one is back. Back then the vet put her on Royal Canin to try to dissolve them and every night at 3AM she would throw up bile. Now he just recently put her on Hills Prescription CD. She’s been on it for two weeks and the last two nights she has thrown up the bile again at 6AM. The vet said its because theres nothing in her stomach and to give her a little more food before she goes to bed. I have had her on a holistic grain free, a raw diet and Fromm over the years and she has never once thrown up but then her PH goes up and she gets the crystals back. Why now on these prescription diets does she throw up bile? I wonder if its the corn or some funky ingredient in it thats she’s allergic or sensitive to? I even took her to a holistic vet and he is the one that put her on the raw diet which she loved but was constantly hungry even though she put on weight. She does seem to have more energy on the Hills but I even told my vet that I didnt think the ingredients in the Hills was great….corn, wheat gluten, by-products. Has anyone else experienced this with the prescription foods? Why wouldnt she throw up no matter what she’s on?

[Susan]

Hi, contact the makers of Blue Buffalo again, can you ring them? this way they will put you thru to the proper section, ask a vet where you live can they place an order & have the dry & wet Blue Buffalo sent to their practice, nothing is impossible, especially when the vet will be getting a new patient & a customer….
Can you make a cooked or raw diet this would be heaps better then feeding a dry kibble… here’s a Natural Home Made raw diet or it can be cooked minus any bones but it gives you an idea what your dog should be eating, look for those ingredients in a kibble, I feed 1 meal cooked & the other meals kibble or wet tin food….
http://naturalanimalsolutions.com.au/Shop/2016/03/15/acidifying-diet-urinary-crystals/

[Susan]

Hi TS, go & see a Dermatologist, as they specialize in in dogs skin….
Yeast can be from Food Sensitivities & Environment Allergies, my boy has both 🙁
I would be feeding a raw diet, go back to a natural diet, what a dogs body is meant to be digesting, dogs have a short intestinal tract, made to digest a raw diet, not a dry kibble, you can buy the dearest kibble BUT it’s still a dry high carb/fiber kibble, most grain free diets are high in carbs & fiber, the grain kibbles that have wheat, corn, maize, rice, oats, barley etc, my boy starts to smell yeasty, itch, get red smelly paws, within 2 days when he eats a kibble with oats, barley, corn, wheat & tapioca which is most of Hills, Royal Canine, Iams & Eukanuba kibbles ingredients…. but your dog may not be sensitive to these ingredients & some dogs do really well & don’t itch & smell yeasty..

If you can afford to feed a home made raw diet then that’s the best or look at the premade raw diets or maybe feed just 1 meal raw with blended greens & the other meal a limited ingredient kibble like “Canidae” Pure Sea very high in omega 3 what is needed for the skin or look for those loaf style rolls in the fridge section, read ingredients first, there are some really good rolls around, I live Australia & we have Crocodile & Tapioca, Kangaroo & Pumkin, Lamb & Rosemary, Kangaroo & Potato specially made for dogs with IBS, IBD & Skin/food sensitivities…
Baths: you need a medicated shampoo like “Malaseb” medicated shampoo, the Malaseb kills the bacteria on their skin & it doesn’t dry out the skin, Malaseb can be used daily & helps put the moisture back into their skin & paws…It’s excellent for yeasty stinky dogs I bath weekly in the Summer months sometimes twice a week it relieves their itch as well..

Omega 3: Omega 3 is needed, some kibbles are not balanced properly & are too high in omega 6 & too low in omega 3 causing skin problems, read kibble packet or on their internet site or email & ask the kibble companies what is the omega 3% & 6% in what ever kibble your looking at feeding, the omega 3 should be 1/2 of what the omega 6% is, so if it says 3.96%-omega 6, the omega 3 should be around 1.80% these percentages were taken from the new Hills prescription diet called Hills “Derm Defense” for dogs with Environment Allergies, Hills is money back guaranteed you could give it a go if your not going to feed a balanced raw diet, the Hills Derm Defense wet tin has Ok ingredients or start with an Elimination diet, but sounds like your boy has environment allergies as well

You need to work out does your dog have food sensitivities to certain foods or does he have environment allergies, it has taken me 2-3 yrs to work out what foods my boy can’t eat & he has seasonal allergies, his vet made me keep a diary & she said you will start to see a pattern with Seasonal Environment Allergies & we did every spring right thru to Autumn then Patch & I get a break thru Winter, Patch is fine thru the winter months as long as he’s not eating foods he’s sensitive too then when spring comes he starts to itch, smell, get hive like lumps all over the white fur sections head stomach red paws, I use Hydrocortisone 1% cream on his paws but first I wash them in the Malseb medicated shampoo then a night when he goes to bed I check out his paws, head & see where’s red & put the Hydrocortisone 1% cream in between his toes with a cotton tip, around his bottom lip mouth gets red above his eye where fur is white the fur starts to thinning out & is real pink, I apply the cream I also use “Sudocrem” sometimes, it’s also excellent as well Sudocrem is sold supermarket & chemist excellent for eczema, dermatitis, rashes, pressure sore.
You both have a big journey ahead, there’s no magic drug Oh there’s Apoquel but its fairly new so please try baths shampoos, raw diet & natural things, also Apoquel doesn’t help if you have a yeast….

Canidae Pure Sea excellent for dogs with skin problems look for a fish kibble when it comes to skin problems but rotate when the season change so your dog isn’t just eating 1 protein, Pork, Lamb, Kangaroo, Salmon/fish – http://www.canidae.com/dog-food/products

Hills Derm Defense or Skin/Food Sensitivities d/d only cause the omega 3 is high in these foods http://www.hillspet.com/en/us/products/pd-canine-dd-salmon-canned

[Susan]

Hi Newmom, follow Rodney Habib on his Face Book page he’s a Pet Nutrition Blogger, or on “Planet Paws” F/B site, https://www.facebook.com/PlanetPaws.ca/?pnref=lhc
I’ve learnt so much about healthy feeding & Rodney has a his videos, how to make frozen Coconut oil with Berries treats & freeze also videos about kibbles being unbalanced & are very high in omega 6 & very low in omega 3, causing health problems in dogs, like skin problems, joint problems etc he has a video at the moment about chicken, “Is chicken bad for your dog” cause chicken is so cheap a lot of kibbles are chicken, the problem is chicken is high in omega 6, Pro anti-inflammatory & very low in omega 3 which is anti-inflammatory & dogs start scratching & people think my dog is sensitive to chicken, like me, every time Patch ate raw or cooked chicken, he got a red swollen back paw & started to itch & scratch his body, but when he ate a premium kibble with chicken in it, he was OK???, now I’ve realized the kibble was probably balanced with omega 3 it was 1/2 of the omega 6 what it should be & Patch didn’t get his red swollen paw & itchy skin….but when he ate raw & cooked chicken it was tooo much omega 6 causing his red hot paw & itchy skin, so now when I buy a kibble I rotate between different brands & different proteins,
I read the Omega 6% & 3 % & make sure the omega 3% is either 1/2 of the omega 6% or nilly 1/2 of the omega 6%. Rodney said if it doesn’t say on the bag of kibble or on the kibbles site then send the kibble companies an email & ask them for their omega 3% & omega 6% & tell these kibble companies what it should be & I will not be buying your crappy unbalanced kibble till you improve it… we need to stand up to these big kibble companies & show them we are not stupid & are educated about our pets diet..
I give raw almonds about 3 almonds a day for a dog a day, I eat 1/2 an Almond & give Patch the other 1/2 of Almonds I give as a treat & his coat has become real shinny, google foods that are high in omega 3, I also give some peeled apple pieces as a treat, dogs that have skin problems also need Vitamin C in their diet…. you can buy Dog Vitamin C in Australia we have Natural Animal Solutions http://www.naturalanimalsolutions.com.au/education.php
There’s a lot of good info on Jacqueline Rudans site she’s a animal Naturopath..

Go to Aldis & look for Tin Sardines in Spring Water or Olive Oil you can give 3 small sardines a day added to one of his meal, Sardines have Vitamin, A, C, D, B-12, B-6 Calcium, Iron & Magnesium, sardines are very healthy to add to your dogs food, Aldis sell tin of Sardines for 59c in Australia…I’d add Sardines to a meal instead of buying any fish oil supplements…unless they’re made in New Zealand
They did a study on Fish Oils in America & 70% were rancid they were off before the bottle was even opened, they tested a fresh just opened bottle of fish oil capsules & they were rancid off..then they tested New Zealand Fish oil supplements & the New Zealand made fish oils were fresher & hadn’t gone rancid yet….
I like giving fresh whole foods instead of supplements, also for skin problems make sure your bathing weekly baths in a good medicated shampoo I use “Malaseb” medicated shampoo on my boy, the Malaseb shampoo kills any bacteria on their skin & soften their skin/fur when you bath you wash off any pollens & allergens on the dogs coat, Patch feels so soft after his bath, when Patch is real itchy cause of environment allergies I have to bath him twice a week to relieve his itchy skin & red paws…

[Susan]

Hi T.G has your girl only ever eaten just Orijen kibble have you tried any other kibbles cause of her poos are soft?
you need to try a lower protein & a lower fat kibble some dogs just do not do well on high protein high fat kibbles, I have to stay under 28% for protein & stay under 15% for fat & need a lower Kcal/per cup ME kibble, under 380 Kcals/per cup….

I would not feed a senior kibble to a large breed puppy the senior kibbles have more Glucosamine, Chondroitin & Phosphorus, supplements for older dogs joints & you have a large breed you don’t want her bones to grow too quick…maybe someone else may know more…
I’ve emailed kibble companies cause I’ve seen large breed kibbles that have ingredients that my boy can eat & the fat & protein is what Patch does well on, I’ve asked them can I feed a large breed formula to my medium size dog & they have all yes its Ok to feed my boy a large breed kibble but I don’t think it’s a good idea to feed a senior formula to a large breed growing pup…
My boy is turning 8 in a few days & I don’t feed him a senior kibble some are too high in fiber for him & all the supplements they add don’t survive or aren’t as strong as when you add your own supplement to their diet & add a healthy fresh whole food to their diet…

You have to be careful with your dog doing sloppy poos everyday that she doesn’t get thickening of the bowel as she gets older. My boy is a rescue & has IBD, his vet was very worried that Patch may have thickening of the bowel & I didn’t want Patch opened up to find out so Patch had an Ultra Scan of the bowel, pancreas, stomach etc & from what the vet could see it didn’t look like Patch had thickening of the bowel….after rotating cooked foods & different kibbles he can just be put straight onto another brand of kibble that he has eatin before I don’t have to re introduce the kibble like I use too 3 yrs ago, but I stick with kibbles that are lower in fat & lower in protein cause he just can’t handle the higher Kcal formulas.. I also fed a home cooked meal for breakfast or swap around & feed cooked meal for dinner…

I’d start rotating between different brands & proteins this way if 1 kibble isn’t balanced properly, or something else is wrong with the kibble like the omega 6 is too high & the omega 3 is real low causing health problems this way they are not eating the same kibble for too long to cause any serious health problems…
I’d start looking at other large breed formula’s where the protein fat is lower then what she’s eating at the moment also change the protein get a different protein…

There’s Earthborn Holistic, they have never had a recall, there’s “Victor” or “Sport Dog Food Elite” Sport Dog Food has similar ingredients as Victor kibble but is cheaper, there’s Ziwi Peak is air dried raw & has wet tin foods as well my cat loves Ziwi Peak…There’s Canidae there’s a few really good kibbles around, they all don’t have to be 5 stars kibble…start adding fresh whole foods to the kibble…I follow Rodney Habib on face Book he’s got a really good video this week about chicken kibbles being high in omega 6 & very low in omega 3….
Start rotating one of these brands in your rotation that is lower in fat & protein with different ingredients also look at the Kcals per cup, pick a kibble that is lower in Kcals per cup then the Orijen she is eating at the moment…I can not feed any kibbles that are over 400Kcals per cup to my IBD dog, it’s just too much for him to digest & he does sloppy big poos about 3-4 a day…
I like kibbles where he only does 2 poos a day, “Taste Of The Wild” Sierra Mountain Roasted Lamb & Canidae Life Stages, All Life Stages formula, he only does 2 firm poos a day & poo’s are small….

Home Page

http://www.sportdogfood.com/grain-free-large-breed-large-bites-30-14/
http://www.canidae.com/dog-food/products
http://ziwipeak.com/

[Salz]

Hey all! I’ve got some questions regarding bone replacement. I have an 8 month old Doberman mix who’s been on raw since he was 3 months old. He gets a mixture of Honest Kitchen Kindly base mix and a variety of raw meat grinds which contain organ, meat and bone. Our living/work situation does not permit me to feed him RBM’s as his entire diet so he gets them about once a week. I understand that many raw feeders think that BARF is the only way, but please understand that I’m not in a position to go that route.

My problem is this: I currently buy most of my grinds from Ecopawz, a small SF based company (we live in Oakland!). I get a huge employee discount for working at a company that sells their products. My last day at this company is on Nov 22nd so I will no longer get the discount, which means a huge added cost every month! The prices are as follows for 5# of meat: $22.50 for beef, $17.50 for turkey, and $13.50 for chicken. I’m trying to brainstorm ways to lower the cost. Does anyone know of a company that sells grinds for dogs at a lower price? OR, is there a way I can supplement with grocery store bought meat with added bone nutrient (egg shells?) and organ meat? Anything helps here! My boy eats a TON of food so the cost is already high, which is ok with me. But I do need to slightly lower the cost, and I’m ready for any ideas you might have. Thanks!

Sally & Jax

[Susan]

Hi, my boy has IBD & Skin Allergies I went thru a Naturopath to put Patch on a raw diet, the Naturopath would not allow any bone in Patches diet, I had to used a supplement instead… Have you looked into supplementing the bone with egg shell or a supplement like I used for Patch…

[Kelly K]

I am so happy to have found this post but so sad to need it. My dog, Tucker, is such a trooper. About 2 weeks ago my boy started with a cough, just the odd cough here and there. In a couple of days I decided to take him to the vet, just before we left he coughed up blood and that was the first sign it was serious. Our vet took blood work and did x-rays and our vet was stymied by the results but didn’t think he had much of a chance but to be euthanized. He seemed perfectly healthy! She said we could try taking him to a veterinary hospital in the city staffed by specialists and surgeons and we drove there that night. Like Lyndzy’s and Carol’s dogs, he was diagnosed with Lung Lobe Torsion. If it was a primary condition and he made it through the night, he was given good odds with the surgery. There was no other option, that or euthanasia and so we went ahead with hope and love in our hearts (…and don’t forget the wallets). He pulled through the surgery really well, was getting the best care and it looked like he was going to come home early, when after 2 days the fluid draining from his chest tube turned from a clear pink to a strawberry milkshake colour and increased from 20-30 mls to over 100. It was chyle. I understand that the situation can resolve on its own sometimes and we are hoping. They took the chest tube out after a few days and sent him home anyway – his recovery is amazing considering he just had a lung removed! But at the first visit back an ultrasound showed the chyle is still building up.

He goes back tomorrow to get the staples removed and assess the situation. I am hoping against hope that it is resolved on its own but I am afraid they will recommend the surgery for it but the results don’t seem to be great, he is still recovering and I’m not sure that my wallet can handle anymore. It is eating me up inside. Everything else is going so well but there is a distinct lack of good information out there.

I was so sad to read about Lisa’s dog – but it gives me hope that yours is doing ok after 3 years, Carol. Lindsay, is your dog doing ok?

Right now he is on the Royal Canin Low-fat gastro wet diet. However this alone is going to bankrupt me at $50/6 days from my vet. I have to find a good, low-fat dry kibble to mix with it at the very least or figure out a healthy low-fat recipe that I can cook. My real problem with this is that he is also allergic to chicken which is a fundamental ingredient in most foods. Prior to this he was on the Holistic Select Salmon, Anchovy and Sardine diet. Very healthy but higher in fat.

My vet said if it says “hydrollised” chicken protein that it is digestible even with an allergy but at this point I don’t want to take the risk. The other brand she suggested is vegetarian with soy as the main protein – I have a lot of misgivings about that due to the protein loss that can accompany chylothorax. He is a very skinny Royal Standard Poodle – 31″ at the shoulder and honestly can’t afford much weight loss. If anyone has any healthy non-chicken low-fat diet recipes they would like to share, I would certainly appreciate it.

I will take the advice on here to heart when I go see the vet tomorrow – as well as any other suggestions, feedback, etc., that you all have. My heart is breaking for my big guy.

[Jennifer H]

Do you have any holistic vets in your area? I too have fed raw for a few years and find what you are experiencing perplexing at best. I raise Saint Bernards so I don’t think I would be able to offer much insight for your particular breed. Sounds like you have tried going through the elimination process but just wondering do you feed the bones whole or grind them? I do both, some ground with their veggies and some fed whole, but just thinking maybe your little guy just needs the bones ground smaller. I wish I had an answer but encourage you to look for a holistic vet that may be more supportive as well as helpful when it comes to a raw diet.

[Anna W]

Hi guys, I am looking for folks with similar experiences (hoping for solutions of course).

I just wanted to start with saying that I am an experiences and passionate raw feeder currently getting my qualifications in pet nutrition and someone who has been raw feeding dogs and ferrets for a few years. I needed to say this so nobody assumes that I ‘tried’ to feed my dog raw for 20 minutes and she has a digestive upset.
We adopted our now 2.5 year old female chihuahua at the age of 1 and put her on a raw diet straight away. No issues for the first 6 months. Then these really dry powdery stools started to occur, a few weeks later painful defecation kicked in, she was crying in pain while passing stools really bad and eventually stopped going to the toilet until she couldn’t keep it in anymore. We tried every diet tweak we could think of – more veg, less bone, more offal, more muscle, nothing changed. Thousands of dollars and many tests later (blood, ultrasound, poop exams, colonoscopy) we know that she is not digesting bones properly and passing sharp shards of bones created a lot of inflammation and scarring in her colon. We know that very dry, powdery and small pieces of stool frequently get stuck in her intestines and only come out after a series of enemas. I never knew I would say this but this dog cannot digest bones properly. We still don’t really know if it’s a bone digestion issue or food digestion issue and the bones are the only ones causing pain. When she had her colon completely cleaned out from old hard stool for colonoscopy we kept her on a meat only diet for about a week and she was fine, no pain, her stools were normal size (a sausage as opposed to many small bits coming out in many attempts). Then we gave her some rabbit with bone and the crying came back. It is obvious the bones are causing the problem (and I was refusing to even admit it for a long time) but I am trying to find out WHY she is not digesting them properly. Regular vets are of absolutely no help as they don’t believe dogs should eat bones in the first place. Their diagnosis – some dogs just can’t eat bones. I am desperate to find the answer, the vets don’t even want to keep testing – like is it a digestive problem in the stomach? They already settled with their ideas. Has anyone had a similar issue before? I would really appreciate any leads. I cannot even find anything on the internet. Thanks!

[Jenn H]

Christopher E
The “scientifically empirical” evidence that humans and dogs are not meant to eat plant only diets is obvious (or should be). Neither have rumens or multiple stomachs like animals that are meant to eat plant only diets (cows).
Humans and dogs are omnivores. Not herbivores.
There’s usually nothing wrong with adding more plants to a dog’s diet, but it makes absolutely no sense and there is absolutely no good reason to feed a dog a plant only diet.
What often happens to people who are vegan long enough is they begin to self-cannibilize.
That said I also don’t think it’s the best idea to feed a strictly raw diet either. Domesticating canines has made them different from wild canines. Some can handle raw just fine and others cannot handle a lot. I have dogs that will catch & eat whatever they come across outside w/o issue and a dog that will end up w/ diarrhea if he does that.
If I were to feed a fad diet to my animals it has to have scientific evidence to back up its claims and agree with their particular system.
No matter what animal protein will be part of that diet because it is what they as omnivores require.

[Christopher E]

What most are failing to realize is that what your dogs ancestors ate is completely irrelevant.

Unless you are feeding your dogs raw food scraps, you have already altered their diet from what you are arguing is “natural,” i.e. What it was between 15k years and maybe a century ago.

But, again, that is irrelevant, the point is that numerous studies have shown that high levels of proteins grow cancer cells… and every dog in America is subject to higher and higher levels of carcinogens than the previous generation. Carcinogens are everywhere in the modern world.

That dogs have always had meat as the main component of their diet in not a valid argument. As myself and others have pointed out, it is entirely possible to provide a complete and balanced diet without animal products.

For anyone who has said that animal product free, vegan diets have not been proven to be healthy in humans or dogs in the long term… you clearly have not done your research because the studies are out there.

I am no longer a vegan. I tried to do it for a while for health reasons, not out of feeling sad for animals (though it does make me sad to think about how they are treated and slaughtered just for our enjoyment). Unfortunately, I love meat too much though. Sorry.

But when it comes to my dog, she is still a vegan. I don’t feed her animal products (except for the ocassional filet mignon scrapes I give her) because I believe that she is healthier and will live longer on a nearly entirely vegan diet. My opinions have been extrapolated from decades of research findings.

There is not any SCIENTIFICALLY EMPIRICAL study that has shown that humans or dogs need meat as part of their diet to be healthy and whole.

Look back over my numerous post on this thread, going back to the first post, if you doubt me.

There is nothing cruel or innately wrong about not feeding your dog meat if you are providing a complete and balanced diet (all the necessary vitamins, minerals, and nutrients). Arguing that’s it’s cruel because it is not in their nature is ridiculous. They are dogs for Christ sake. Non of this was “in their nature” when we first began domesticating them (wolves) 15k years ago. Just like our children, we have to do for them what we believe is best for them based on the information we have available… not whatever is in their nature… which, honestly is a completely arbitrary statement.

[Mary V]

Kirstie M… I guess, the best reason I can think of to feed sardines is because they are so nutrient dense. High quality protein. Bones and “guts” intact – also one comment endorses feeding raw sardines, but I have no idea where to get them on a consistent basis. Freeze dried might be a good option:http://www.mycanadianpets.ca/gpage3.html.

I’m getting an Irish Setter puppy in a few weeks and I will be supplementing her kibble diet with some sardines, as well as some lightly steamed vegetables (http://dogaware.com/articles/dwveggies.html) and a little fruit. I also am thinking I will add dehydrated Green Tripe: http://ivcjournal.com/raw-green-tripe/.

I think you should relax. Even dogs are only fed med-high quality kibble seem to do just fine. I have a 13 year old Aussie bitch who’s eaten mostly Purina One dog food all of her life. She has been virtually problem free health wise, and still acts like a much younger dog. I’ve moved her to a grain free of late, and she likes it better and continues to do very well.

Hope this is of use to you.

[Pam G]

On that 27 year old dog – I have nine small Poodle mutts romping around my fenced one acre lot in a ritzy subdivision and they find it against their ethics to allow ANY chipmunk on the property. Their solution is to catch and kill those chipmunks and, yep, a fair number of the critters inevitably end up as dog lunch.

If Poodle mutts can catch little varmints as mine do, you bet your britches a large, quick dog like the one that lived to be 27 could do the same and more. Maybe Vegetable Mama believed her darling was living only on lentils and rice but if that dog had access to the great outdoors, the chances are excellent the dog was supplementing that mush with mice, gophers, chipmunks, rabbits and whatever else in the way of meat that hopped across his path.

The other point you Vegetable People are missing is your insistence that as omnivores dogs can live strictly on a vegan diet without meat because they aren’t true carnivores. I will point out that if that is true, then they should be able to live off RAW vegetable matter, RAW grains, RAW beans, raw fruit, NONE OF IT COOKED. That, of course, would be the natural state of affairs omnivores would face. And I notice all you Vegetable People feed your mutts either cooked extruded dog food or cooked mixtures and mushes of various sorts.

On the other hand, dogs can lived quite healthily on a balance of meat, organ meat, bones with the occasional addition of vegetable matter. Heck, I know one hunt that used to feed their hounds by shooting an old horse or cow out in the back of the exercise paddock and letting the pack eat it down, picking up the skeletal remains and pieces of hide before leading another old cow or horse out there for the next week’s feeding.

THAT is the natural diet of dogs. As every other reasonably intelligent dog person on this forum has stated, look at your dog’s teeth. They sure as heck would never be mistaken for the teeth of a herbivore, would they? No way, because dogs are carnivores but can subsist on other stuff if it comes down to living or starving to death.

Either way, as vegans are so against anything that eats meat, why the heck do you guys even own carnivorous pets to start with? I would think dogs and cats would make you recoil in horror and send you racing to buy a rabbit or hamster – beasts that share your ideals of eating only plant material.

[S G]

Hey everybody, i just remembered something about my Shitzu (who passed away), okay i told you all that the colonoscopy confirmed severe inflammatory bowel disease and vet said he had months to live and we changed him to a raw diet and he lived another 8 years anyway, he craved coconut oil, we gave it to him as a treat, his body knew he needed it and i have read hat coconut oil kills parasites included giardia, so I’m going to see if my new rescue likes it as a treat. Anyway just wanted to pass that along and if anybody else tries it for diarrhea from giardia, lets all report back with results.

[anonymous]

Also: “Raw diets are another popular option on the market today. Studies have shown that 20-35% of raw poultry and 80% of raw food dog diets tested contained Salmonella. This poses a health risk for your pet, but also for humans. This is especially true for children or immunocompromised adults, whether exposed to the raw food directly, or the feces of the pet eating the raw food. Additionally, there is increased risk of other bacterial infections and parasitic diseases when feeding raw diets. And the bottom line is there is no reason to believe raw food is healthier than cooked food”.

Excerpt from:https://www.mspca.org/angell_services/choosing-the-right-diet-for-your-pet/

[anonymous]

http://www.homeovet.net/dynamic/php/downloads/dog-c8470f2c75dbe4b683205c3919ee2310/dog_diet_complete.pdf

I tried raw a few years ago and ended up at the emergency vet X 2. The above link gives a brief explanation as to why ground meats are not recommended. The diet is a few years old and I don’t agree with a lot of it, but then, I am not a veterinarian.

I now believe mostly in science based veterinary medicine. This site has been very helpful to me http://skeptvet.com/Blog/

[Bag of Opals]

At risk of looking ridiculous, I would like to inquire if there are contaminants found in ground beef that aren’t found in other such meats. I’m asking because I’ve been reading the comments on reviews, and come across several under the raw foods saying one shouldn’t feed their dog ground beef.

Why beef, and why ground? Is there something wrong with this specifically, or is it just the go-to example when advising people to feed a balanced diet instead of throwing any old thing at their pooch? I’m confused.

Another quick question: What do the more knowledgeable folks think of the grain free and puppy/adult premixes listed here?
http://www.vetsallnatural.com.au/category/products/complete-mix/

[S G]

agreed, there are a lot of vets who listen to your concerns, and will prescribe based on your knowledge of the dogs symptoms first rather than what can be a false negative fecal. change to a vet who listens to your concerns and who you feel comfortable with. Antibiotics don’t have to be the first option unless there is a life-threatening infection, many dogs can get over an over abundance of bad bacteria with change of diet and lots of probiotics and mastic gum is also used to heal the intestinal tract too. because my shitzu had severe inflammatory bowel disease that is what a holistic vet had to prescribe (mastic gum) along with raw diet, probiotics. i found the mastic gum a savior for my Banjo because he was lethargic and very ill too but wouldn’t use it for a dog who is acting normal other than the diarrhea. Don’t let the diarrhea go on for long as was said by others he will get sicker and sicker because he will become dehydrated and not absorbing enough nutrients, therefore you might consider changing the brand of the slippery elm or increasing the dosage to firm up that stool soon.

[tonkasdad]

Hey all! I’ve got a 4 year old king charles spaniel. He is currently on orijen dog food. Orijen is the ONLY kibble he will eat. When I say only, I mean only. I’ve tried many other brands but he is reluctant to eat them. But with Orijen, he literally waits by his bowl each morning waiting for it. So, I was debating about putting him on a raw diet. Kinda weighing out the pros and cons. But if he is eating orijen, and likes it, I don’t know if I should or not. I’d like to hear some feedback from people who have had their dogs on the raw diet, before I dive in. Also is it even worth switching to raw if he likes Orijen. Thanks!

[S G]

I would go out and buy a guaranteed potency brand of Slippery Elm. Slippery Elm will firm up your dog’s stool, so either you’re not using enough or it’s not a guaranteed potency brand. Unfortunately there are many herbs on the market and they are ‘not’ regulated so many have been found to not contain what is stated on the bottle. Since your not sure your pup has a protozoa how can anybody tell you when his stool will firm up? It could be an over abundance of bad bacteria. Plus if the slippery elm isn’t soothing the tummy and firming up the stool then diarrhea could continue even if the cause is corrected as the damage to the lining of the intestinal system needs to be repaired too along with a modified diet and protiobics. It is very tricky, possibly too much damage has been done to the intestinal lining which was what happened with my shitzu and the only thing that helped him was also changing him to a raw diet, but his damage was extreme and verified through an endoscopy (which was very expensive test), so vets are good for something, they help diagnose the extent of the problem. BTW: my vet was shocked that my shitzu had severe inflammatory bowel disease, i kept telling our vet something was horribly wrong with my dog, they dismissed my concern because the dog was always happy when he went on an outing even to the vet, he’d act happy their but at home curl up in a tight ball and vomit/have soft stools with mucous at home and never move, i’d even have to carry him out to pee/poo. I since changed vets and have one that listens to me, as i know the dog best.

• This reply was modified 9 years, 5 months ago by S G.
• This reply was modified 9 years, 5 months ago by S G.
• This reply was modified 9 years, 5 months ago by S G.
• This reply was modified 9 years, 5 months ago by S G.

[S G]

maybe/maybe not depending on how bad it is, here is a story so you understand……it’s a horrible battle if the dog as inflammatory bowel disease. years ago my shitzu was so sick, his stools had mucus and were soft, he curled up in a tight ball and laid around all the time, he was restless at night, so finally i spent a ton of money an a colon and endoscopy because the vet did NOT believe me and tons of stools tests were done. The results came back and the vet was shocked – SEVERE inflammatory bowel disease. They told me he wouldn’t live more than 6 months. So i contacted a holistic vet and changed his diet to RAW and holistic supplements, what did I have to loose, it took 18 months before his gut healed and even then he still had bouts if i ever gave him a snack. All he could tolerate was RAW, it was a BIG hassle to feed raw and HUGE expense including the supplements, but it saved his life and he lived another 8 years, the first of those 8 years were NOT easy. He was my best friend, I can’t believe all i did for him, but I loved him so much. He finally passed 3 months ago (from a stroke from tooth infection, yet i scaled his teeth twice a month just not far enough under the gum line) and I’m still grieving, he meant the world to me.

[anonymous]

Check out these sites before you make your decision:
http://skeptvet.com/Blog/category/nutrition/
https://www.mspca.org/angell_services/choosing-the-right-diet-for-your-pet/ (excerpt below)
Raw diets are another popular option on the market today. Studies have shown that 20-35% of raw poultry and 80% of raw food dog diets tested contained Salmonella. This poses a health risk for your pet, but also for humans. This is especially true for children or immunocompromised adults, whether exposed to the raw food directly, or the feces of the pet eating the raw food. Additionally, there is increased risk of other bacterial infections and parasitic diseases when feeding raw diets. And the bottom line is there is no reason to believe raw food is healthier than cooked food.

The numerous dietary choices for your pet can be daunting but if you pick an AAFCO approved food made by a manufacturer with a long track record, odds are good that you will find a suitable food for your pet. Most of the large pet food companies employ full time veterinary nutritionists and have very high quality control standards. That is not to say that a small company cannot produce nutritious and high quality food, but you should check out their website if it’s a company that is not familiar to you. Take the time to research, and ask your veterinarian if you have specific questions or concerns.

[Steven H]

October 2016 update
May 2016 my 11 year old Aussie Mozart lost his eye site, retinal detactment they say. Merlin my 8 year old Aussie was diagnosed with IBS, stomach issues. It was a tough battle for awhile. Mozart regained his eye site, still weening him off the steroids but is doing great. Merlin was prescribed tylan powder twice a day. Had a hard time with him not wanting to eat, refusing even cooked chicken breasts. I cant tell you how hard it is seeing him drop this food out of his mouth. I would actually have to hand feed him wet just to get him to eat something. Numerous vet visits, second and third opinions got me nowhere. I dont even want to tell you the tests they ran and wanted to run. My last straw was making an appointment with a veterinary nutritionist. She wanted his entire history of food given and while filling out this paper work I had found one thing. Switching them over to the limited ingredient diet, real chicken stew wet and hard formula was what they had in common.
They say not every food agrees with our four legged kids and believe me I am not bashing there product, it just was not right for my guys. When we look into this limited ingredient products for our kids we might want to think about what they are replacing food ingredients with. Vitamins, herbs a sprinkle of this and that.
Right now Merlin is eating Purina One wet, turkey and venison and is doing great. Only one I could get him to try, believe me I had made plenty of trips to the store. Mozart is doing well on a Redford dog food hard kibble grain free turkey. I have been feeding them this for about two weeks now and have slowly introduced this hard kibble to Merlins wet food, so far so good.
Like I said, not every food is good for every four legged kid. Just wanted to let you know how things have been going.

Thank you all for your posts, great information here..

Steve

• This reply was modified 9 years, 5 months ago by Steven H.

[HoundMusic]

I’ve been seriously considering giving the Bright Mind a try for a dog who started having massive, uncontrollable grand mal seizures @ 9yrs old. He’s now 11 and has a notable degree of brain damage, but doing better on a home cooked diet (as opposed to raw), even without supplements, so it’s obvious diet does have an impact on cognitive health.

I don’t have a single issue with feeding any of Purina’s higher grade foods – in fact, when I was actively breeding, Purina ONE and Puppy/Dog Chow gave me outstanding results. These were hunting dogs that quickly fell apart on a feed that was even slightly lacking, and quite honestly, there’s a reason most show & field breeders don’t touch the holistic, “boutique” type foods, and it’s NOT the price. When your entire kennel is going to pot, you’re desperate enough to pay anything.

However, I haven’t fed anything Purina in close to 8yrs, since they changed their formulas back in ’08. I did just pick up a back of the Purina ONE Mature Adult tonight, since this weekend was too busy to do a raw food shopping, and the ingredients look very similar to Bright Mind. I’ll update if I stick with it and notice any differences…

[Megan L]

I’m getting ready to switch to a raw diet (first timer) and also live in Maine (Gardiner) I was thinking of using Reel raw..is there a reason you don’t use them any more? I have also looked at Hare today but hate to pay for shipping

[S G]

I bought the Pure Vita Turkey kibble and am going to try mixing it with the organic natural planet canned turkey to see if that helps firm up his stool. I also bought slippery elm supplement as it’s the main ingredient in Perfect Form that you recommended too. I really don’t think he has worms, parasites but will take him in and ask the rescue if they can over the bill IF this new diet/supplements don’t work. I’m going to also continue adding pumpkin for a while into his food and probiotics since i still have both but need to eventually simply his diet to exclude supplements, i don’t mind mixing kibble with canned if that’s what he needs to have firm stools. Thank you ALL for recommending HIGH QUALITY fiber foods. It just goes to show not all dogs are the same, where one dog could only tolerate RAW(my shitzu) and this rescue seems to need some kibble. I’m really against most kibbles, as most have LOW QUALITY ingredients and grains/carbs, but there are so many NEW HIGH quality ones on the market nowadays, it may be the way of the future for keeping a rescue dog healthy. I’ll let you all know if this works.

[Susan]

Hi Lisa, with yeasty dogs the dog starts scratching & gets real smelly of yeast only when the dog is sensitive to a certain ingredient in his diet, or he can be allergic to something in the environment as well, so it makes it really hard to pin point what the dog is sensitive too & is making him smell awful & itch.. I always thought the same its the high starchy carbs making my Patch itch & smell then I later learnt its the starchy carbs my dog is sensitive/allergic too that makes him smell & get real itchy… High carb diets aren’t the best & yes try to find a kibble that’s around 40% & under in carbs, a dogs digestive tract is short & made to digest a raw diet…
I feed “Taste Of The Wild” Sierra Mountain Roasted Lamb it only has 38% carbs. My boy seems to do really well on the TOTW Lamb kibble..

When my dog eats oats, barley, chicken, corn meal, carrots & probably other grains I don’t no all of them yet, that’s when he starts to smell within 2-3 days of eating the kibble… When he eats a kibble with just rice & fish he does real well, I was surprised, I always try to buy a kibble from a pet shop, so if I need to return it to get my money back its easier then buying online & having to pay for the delivery back to the online store, then while I’m at the Pet Store I can try another kibble….
If you can cook or do a pre-made raw then that’s the healthiest diet to feed, have a look at “Balance It” there’s recipes on their site you fill out the questionnaire, what health problems your dog or cat has, then recipes will come up for your dogs health problem & you add the “Balance It” to balance the diet..
https://secure.balanceit.com/

[Maria K]

My pup and I are trying a commercial raw formula for the first time. I was mixing the Answers Detailed Pork patties (1/2 patty broken up) mixed with 1/2 cup of his kibble (Acana Wild Atlantic). I know they digest differently but was wanting to do somewhat of a transition if possible. He wouldn’t eat any of it. I’m more of a “if you’re hungry, you’ll eat” type of owner so I didn’t give him anything else and repeated the process for 3 meals. Still no eating. This morning I split them up to see if he just wasn’t eating period or if it really was the raw, he scarfed the kibble and left the raw untouched. I did it again tonight and the same reaction. I put some in his favorite toys to freeze overnight and will try that in the morning but was wondering if there were any tips that could help. I have heard great things about rotating raw into their diet and would love for it to be an option for us.

[S G]

I have a new rescue for the last 4 weeks battling diarrhea.
The rescue didn’t give me any of his previous kibble and couldn’t tell me what brand it was anyway, just said it varies because they get donations. My other dog eats a super healthy canned Organic Natural Planet so I was trying to do the same for the new rescue, but it’s giving him diarrhea. I’ve borrowed some kibble (low-quality) from a neighbor to see if weaning him would help but he won’t touch it if i mix in kibble because my other dog is eating the good canned stuff next to him! I tried mixing in brown rice which helped a little bit, then I tried mixing in pumpkin which helped firm it a little more but it’s still pretty soft and has some mucus (no blood and only has 2 sloppy stools a day and he acts completely normal and happy), so i really feel it’s his body trying to transition rather than any health problems. I am also now adding probiotics but no change yet. I think this particular dog needs more fiber, can someone recommend a QUALITY kibble with good source of fiber that I can mix with his canned Organic Natural Planet to see if that will help? I would prefer a poultry to match his canned or lamb kibble but one that has a good source of fiber to help me with firming his stools. I prefer to stay with the highest quality brands, (i had a shitzu who had severe inflammatory bowel disease at the age of 4 and had to feed him RAW diet which extended his life another 8 years!, so i prefer the highest quality canned and kibble as raw was a hassle to feed and don’t want to go there again). Again, higher fiber, quality fiber but still high protein is what i’m looking for in a quality dry food to mix in with Natural Planet. Thanks again for any suggestions. Desperate to get his stools firmer!!!

[Susan]

Hi Lisa, it may be the kibble your dog just doesn’t do well eating a hard processed kibbles some dogs don’t do well eating all kibbles….
Your dog could be suffering from Environment allergies more then food sensitivities, with food sensitives your dog will have sloppy poos, even diarrhea, vomiting, rumbling, gurgling bowel noises, jelly poos, looks like poo & jelly, red paws, itchy smelly ears, red around his mouth from food, anal gland problems rubbing bum on carpet & grass…
Have you tried cooking his meals elimination diet or tried premade raw diets instead of kibble?
Your best to see a Dermatologist so they can work out what your dog is allergic too, is it dust mites, is he allergic to things inside the house or grasses, trees, plants pollens, is it food related ?

Have you tried “California Natural” Lamb Meal & Rice it has just 3 ingredients, no peas, no fish oil, just Lamb Meal , Rice & Sunflower oil, a lot of vet use “California Natural” kibbles
or cook or feed pre made raw diet for has dinner & give the California Natural for breakfast…
When they have allergies the only thing you can really do is bath weekly or the days they’re real itchy bath to wash off the pollens & allergens on their skin, find a food that agrees with them & work out what is causing their allergies..

[Susan]

Hi Nicci, can you afford a pre-made raw diet or cook her food?? I have read bad things about the Dynovite, your better off balancing the cooked meal with something else, add about 3 small sardines to one of her meals a day, you need to make sure you keep up her omega 3… Tin Sardines in Spring water are excellent for their skin, joints, brain, heart…

You could buy a bag of the Kirklands & try it & see if she has a reaction just take it back & say she wont eat it if she reacts… don’t forget she could be having environment allergies to grass, trees, plants flowers, it may not be the food….

Baths, weekly baths or bath as soon as she starts scratching real bad, bathing washes off any pollens, allergens on their skin that’s causing them to itch & scratch. Patch is bathed weekly every Thursday in Malaseb medicated shampoo & leave on for a good 5mins the bath lady massages him as long as she can & after his bath he feels so much better…. he eats “Taste Of The Wild” Sierra Mountain Roasted Lamb & I feed a cooked meal for dinner…
3
Go on Rodney Habib Face book page & follow him he posted a easy to make balanced raw diet made by Dr Karen Becker, you can cook it as well everything can be bought from supermarket.. he also has so much good info

[Susan]

Hi Lazaro, it very rare for dogs to be allergic to meat/proteins & when they are they will normally suffer with stomach & bowel problems (IBS & IBD) are you sure your dog doesn’t have environment allergies, my boy has both Seasonal allergies, he starts itching, scratching & has red paws when spring starts & he also has food sensitivities, he will have sloppy poo, wind/gas pain & red paws after he eats chicken.. He’s been diagnosed with IBD. When he eats barley, corn, wheat, oats ingredients in vet diets or supermarket kibbles he starts to smell real yeasty & is real itchy but doesn’t have his sloppy poos or wind/gas problems, just become real smelly of yeast….

The only way you can be 100% positive what ingredients he is sensitive too is to do a cooked or raw elimination diet.. Its real easy, if you think he cant eat chicken then cook some chicken breast, cut into small pieces, just bring the chicken to the boil & take off stove & rinse in boiling water & its ready & also boil some sweet potato, you can freeze small meals, enough for 2 weeks..

Do not mix all the kibbles together, Why?? just scoop out of your air tight container the kibble you what to feed & when introducing a new kibble just open both kibbles & add the recommended amount over the 7 day period.. I feed 1 brand kibble for breakfast then for dinner I feed another brand kibble or a cooked meal..

Your best to feed a limited ingredient fish kibble cause the omega 3 is what is needed for the skin, fish kibbles are normally higher in omega 3 fatty acids…

Baths you should be bathing once a week to wash off any pollens & allergen on his skin & paws, I use Malaseb medicated shampoo, it leaves the skin & coat feeling real soft & kills any bacteria on their skin & paws……You can bath daily with the Malaseb medicated shampoo…I walk Patch 3-4 times a day as well & sometimes he’ll come home & start itching, so on his walk a plant or grass has started to irritate his skin & paws, that’s when I have to bath him if he’s uncomfortable with itch, baths make them feel more comfortable when they are itchy,

Fleas, some dogs have Flea allergies they are allergic to the fleas salvia, 1 bite & my boy will scratch for days, so make sure your boy doesn’t have 1-2 fleas that’s causing him to itch, again weekly baths & a flea spot on will help stop any fleas..

Limited ingredient kibbles, “Wellness Simple” Salmon & Potato, “Wellness Complete Health” Grain Free.
http://www.wellnesspetfood.com/dog-wellness.aspx

“California Natural” has kibbles with just 3 ingredients…
http://www.californianaturalpet.com/products

[Susan]

Hi Leslie, yes my rescue boy has IBD diagnosed thru Endoscope & Biopsies.. He has Food Sensitivities & cant have real high fat or high protein over 28% kibbles, like I wrote above it has taken me 3 yrs to work out what he can eat & can’t eat if your feeding turkey with the kibble have you thought of feeding him a raw diet or a cooked diet & stop feeding him kibble. There’s balanced premade raw diets….
You have to read the ingredients in the Science Diet formula & Fat, Protein & Fiber percent & look at all the kibbles you have tried & see where the difference lays, is the protein, fat or fiber too high, look at ingredients what’s the protein in Science Diet? Science Diet usually uses chicken, what ingredients are in the Science Diet usually corn gluten brewers rice, beet pulp etc then look at the ingredients in the other kibbles you have tried, see if there’s an ingredient in all the kibbles he had diarrhea….
also look at what oils & fat that are in the ingredients like fish oil, Salmon oil, my boy can not eat these oils, the American TOTW uses Salmon Oil but the Australian TOTW uses Canola Oil…. the best thing to do is start an elimination diet it takes a while but you will know what he cant eat, also maybe see a vet that specializes in IBS & IBD..
Have you looked at Science Diet Ideal balance?? it has better ingredients the their Science Diet range…

[Susan]

Hi, please get your Science Diet puppy food that your pup does good on, now read the Fat % the Protein % the Fiber % try & find a kibble with grains not grain free, cause the Science Diet uses crappy grains & there’s good premium kibbles with good grains & sweet potatoes that will be better then the Science Diet your feeding…
With the TOTW did the try “Sierra Mountain Roasted Lamb”?? it’s an all life stages kibble & has the least ingredients & the protein is only 25%, fat is 15%, I have a IBD boy & he does really well on the TOTW Sierra Mountain Roasted Lamb, it doesn’t have Garbanzo beans or lentils, Legumes, stay away from kibbles with Chickpeas, Lentils, Legumes…. have a look at “Holistic Select” Puppy/Adult its a grain free or the Holistic Select Anchovy, Sardines & Salmon & Rice or look at “Wellness Simple” range… Look for kibbles with limited ingredients that have brown rice there’s even “California Natural” it has limited ingredients only 3-4 ingredients & no peas, when my boy first stared eating kibbles with peas he got real bad wind…. Cause your pup is use to eating the Science Diet kibble you have to slowly introduce new foods in his diet once he’s doing well on a premium kibble, its taken me 3 yrs for Patch, & now he can eat apple, lean pork, lean beef, broccoli, carrot, egg, tuna. salmon, sweet potatoes, pumkin, raw almonds… I slowly started introducing all these foods once he was doing well on a kibble, TOTW Sierra Mountain, then I would give a couple pieces of peeled apple as a treat for 2 weeks, then 1 spoon pumkin with his kibble, then sweet potato etc… You will get there…
The other day I tried Artemis Turkey & Garbanzo beans, I had originally ordered Artemis Duck & Sweet Potato kibble but Pet place had sold out & gave me Artemis new formula & poor Patch was sick with diarrhea for 2-3 days until he was put on Metronidazole… 🙁 I’ll have to return & say he wont eat it, always check if the kibble is money back guaranteed.

[Susan]

Hi have a look at Artemis Osopure Turkey & Garbanzo beans or Duck & Garbanzo beans
but it has peas….Have you done a food elimination diet to be 100% that she is sensitive to all these ingredients?? Have you seen a Dermatologist instead of a vet?
I know you wrote you don’t have the time to cook but if you cooked once a fortnight or monthly & freeze the meals in sections…
I buy Lean Pork mince & add parsley, broccoli, carrot, kale & Almond & Flax meal & 1 whisked egg & mix all together & make 1 cup size rissoles & bake in oven then cool then freeze & also boil sweet potato pieces & freeze & take out the day before & put in fridge for the next day…. when I first started I only added pork mince & parsley then I slowly added the other ingredients to see how Patch went…..
Your not going to find a kibble that doesn’t have the all the ingredients she is sensitive too…maybe look at wet tin or the Honest Kitchen meals you just add water or you buy your own meat & add the Honest Kitchen base mixes…. have you tried Raw Diet the pre-made Raw??
Its very rare for a dog to be allergic to most proteins & when they are they will suffer with IBD…..

[mary s]

Wow, well, thank you all for your opinions. First, THK is on Hound Dog Mom’s list as OK for Large breed puppies, and she even mentions in a post, that before she started feeding raw it was what she fed. It sounds like some more current “suggestions” differ from what she was putting out there at the start of this list. Second, regarding research…..I lived my research regarding traditional vet med. I had two littermate brothers with IBD. They weighed 52 and 58 pounds with bloody mucus filled poop, and could have died from the IBD. 3 different vets wanted to scope them, keep them on metranidozole (sorry, I’m sure I spelled that wrong) and steroids indefinitely. The raw diet, supplements, and homeopathic remedies are what saved their lives, and they went to 85 and 75 pounds. and lived to be 12. It might be beneficial for some of you to look up true homeopathics before some of the judgements. However, I am not interested in a debate either. I just came here for some help. Anyway, while disappointed, I am more certain of what I am doing. And thank you to whomever said they were glad he was doing better, because he is…..no blood, perfectly formed poop – without the harsh medications that only suppress the symptoms anyway. I think we may be in the wrong pew, but I wish you all the very best of luck with your dogs 🙂

[Sherri S]

My husband and I are mostly vegetarians. He eats more meat than I do. The problem with raw meats is a potential problem with E. Coli or Salmonella that occurs in the slaughtering process. In fast slaughtering machines they try to get animals to run through as it slices them up into thousands of pieces. As many of you may recall, Chipotle had a similar problem. At a slaughterhouse (which I am opposed to doing to animals, anyway, btw), ALL of the creature’s body including intestinal tract is often mixed in together, especially in he fast slaughtering machine type. This is why meats were cooked in the first place. To reduce bacteria in the meal itself especially intestinal tract. When we defecate, thousands of bacterial often leave our bodies (humans and dogs). These same areas where our bowel movements occur are full of bacterial and sometimes viruses. Also, fish uncooked can give you a parasite called neorickettsia helminthoeca which is very poisonous to dogs. A vet can also check the feces for nanophyetus salmincola to check for laid eggs. Our dogs get a very good diet of cooked veggies (uncooked can puncture the intestine or cause a disease such as Hepatitis in humans). This is usually due to some countries using human feces as fertilizer which can transmit Hepatitis to other people. I hope this helps.

[Sirius K]

I have a 2 and a half year old mastiff. He is absolutely lovely and has been more or less in good health his whole life. He isn’t on an 100% raw diet, though a lot of what I give him throughout the day is raw meat/slightly cooked meat/meat-based actually good quality treats (I do heavy research before buying anything lmao)

Anyway, so my dog loves steak. So do I. Steak used to be a birthday treat, but since we moved into a place on our own and it’s just the two of us– anyway, he gets steak a lot now. He’s all about that. Lol. I cut his portion into pieces to give him before I season or cook my portion.

Anyway, at the nearby farmer’s market, I recently bought a calf heart (organic, grass-fed, very nice looking) — I haven’t had full on raw beef heart before and neither has my dog. It was frozen when I purchased it and it’s been frozen up until I tossed it in my fridge to thaw. Seeing as it’s a muscle, I figured he would view it similar to steak.

I cut him a couple pieces today because he seemed interested, but he wouldn’t touch it!
This is the first time he’s turned down (meat) raw food of any type. He’s usually only the type to turn down most fruits and vegetables (that are safe for dogs of course) lol.

Did he just think it smelled weird or something? Raw heart does smell rather strong even to me– so I’m sure it smells a hell of a lot to him. But he really likes his other smelly treats– like the green tripe sticks by Barkworthies. So, do you know what’s up?

I’m about to soak some pieces in apple cider vinegar because I read a few places that it would cut down on the smell. But yeah. I was fully planning on sharing this bounty with him. Haha. I don’t know why he isn’t interested. I’m half worried something is wrong with the beef heart I bought and that’s why he won’t eat it, but everything checks out and it seems really fresh.

He loves chicken hearts and all that good stuff.
Anyway, any ideas?
Thanks. 🙂

• This topic was modified 9 years, 6 months ago by Sirius K.

[Acroyali]

Just a few of my own thoughts:

When I was in the transitional stages, one of my cats choked…on kibble. He was excessively hungry, and I was removing the 24 hour a day buffet in order to get them acclimated to meal times. He was OK, but any living thing can choke on anything. Bones can be scary, and if someone isn’t comfortable feeding bones I never would suggest it dissuades them from feeding a healthier diet than they’re already feeding. Hare Today offers boneless grinds (meat only) as well as boneless chunks of meat. I believe chicken and turkey both come this way, check the product description to be sure.

I’ve used boneless chunks as “reminders” to chew. I never give an excessively hungry dog anything bone-in; bones come after the main meal, which is mostly muscle meats and organs. It works for us, hopefully it can and will work for others.

I have and do brush teeth on a few of my dogs as a precaution. The issue I have is getting more brushed than the stuff we see at first glance. Getting the gumline on the inside part of the back molars with a toothbrush is next to impossible. Your dogs’ teeth may look wonderful when you lift their lip up. But if they yawn or pant and you get a glimpse of gross stuff on the INSIDE of the teeth, chewing is their best bet to get their teeth cleaned up.

I used to be a huge fan of recreational bones until a recent tooth fracture on one of my larger dogs. Now I know why some owners call them “wreck” bones 😉

I have never had the unfortunate experiences described here by some from puncturing or choking to death, and hope I never do. I know of one person who had a boxer choke on an ox tail and the dog died on the way to the vet. I’m SUPER weird about choosing large things for my dogs to chew on for this reason; even if they don’t totally consume the whole thing at once. There’s no doubt in my mind that dogs have suffered and even died from consuming raw bones, but there’s also no doubt in my mind that dogs have suffered and even died from consuming tainted, moldy, spoiled “safe” dry food (covered in salmonella, BTW), or have suffered greatly from eating a poor choice of food *for them* and have had the symptoms suppressed with drugs.

JMO.

[Susan]

Hi Kaleena, what about adding blended veggies like broccoli, apple, carrot, celery, I use to add 1-2 spoons of the blended veggies to 1 cup of raw, I would make up a batch then freeze in ice cube trays & cover with cling wrap…
also tin sardines in spring water or olive oil add about 3 sardines to 1 meal a day, if you go on Rodney Habib face book page he has a balanced raw recipe easy to make made by Dr Karen Becker & Steve Brown…. also are you feeding 2 meals a day??
When I started feeding a raw diet cause my boy ate kibble he was very hungry eating the raw diet & I had to feed 2 meals a day & he still wanted more, so I gave him 1/2 cup kibble so he would settle & sleep at night, I’d hear his stomach grumbling with hunger, I told the Naturopath who’s Maintenance Diet I had him on & she said yes it can take a while for them to get use to not eating carbs, kibble is full of carbs….. Here’s the Maintenance Diet I followed.
http://www.naturalanimalsolutions.com.au/education.php

[marie d]

Hi, im trying to get some advice for taking my boy off kibble and putting him onto raw please. Im so nervous to get it wrong and cause him any harm so would really your help. A little background on him, he is a 9 1/2 year labrador that has been on kibble his whole life. I stupidly thought that as we were getting him the expensive kibble we were feeding him the best. He has been on royal canin gastro for the past 2 years due to him having gastro issues sll his life. The vet came to the conclusion he has an intolerance to fat so needs to be on the low fat diet which has worked for him as we havent had any gastro issues for 2 yr now whilst on this food. Whst he has though is cancer now twice in the past 18 months, both mast cell tumours which led us to start looking into whats in his food. We really want to get him off kibblebas strongly feel that this has contributed to him getting cancer. Ive red so much conflicting info on how to change from dry to raw and am so confused as to what will be best for him. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Sorry for the long post 🙁

[Kaleena R]

So I’ve been researching and have decided i’d like to do raw feeding for my dogs. I have looked into how to do it the most cost effective way for myself and have come up with a proposed “plan”. Would just like opinions and advice to let me know if its sufficient or what I need to add or subtract!

So the plan is 3 days a week feed chicken quarter (bone and meat), 1 day a whole rabbit, 1 day a whole duck,and 2 days of pork(bone and meat). I would also give 1 egg a week and every other week switch duck out for turkey.

Is this sufficient? Enough variety for health?

[Spy Car]

Hey Cannoli,

Homes are filled with a myriad of items that can be considered choking hazards for dogs (and children). People starting raw feeding should monitor their dogs to make sure they get the hang of chewing bone (which is about as natural an instinct as canines could have). Feeding larger sized pieces of bone-in parts (like chicken quarters) that can’t be gulped is always smart, as is supervising a dog new to raw feeding.

But dogs are hard wired to chew. The risks of choking on appropriately sized chicken bones are very low and diminish to near zero as dogs get accustomed to it. Intestinal blockages from items like chicken bones are exceedingly rare. I’d worry a lot more about socks.

The calcium (and its bioavailability) from bone is not in question. Concerns about absorption are misplaced. Getting calcium from bone is what canines were shaped by evolution to do. It is superior to artificial supplementation.

The PMR style of feeding with 10% bone keeps the Calcium Phosphorus ratios at the perfect 1.2:1 levels recommended by the leading authorities as optimal. It is spreading a false fear that rotational feedings with calcium supplements are necessary to maintain mineral balances:it simply isn’t so.

The act of chewing is good for dogs. It is relaxing for them. It builds good dental health (encouraging strong gums and clean teeth) and builds strong neck and jaw muscles, in a fashion that feeding calcium powder does not.

If an owner wishes to brush teeth on top of raw feeding, great! I just know how many conventionally fed dogs I know and they nearly all have tartar-stained yellowing (if not rotten teeth) in marked contrast to raw fed dogs whose teeth stay nice and white (with fresh breath).

When we get phobic or fearful about very natural ways of being it has a cost. This is true both with dogs and with children. One can cut off “play” because someone might get hurt, but that comes at a cost. The risks of feeding soft edible bones to dogs is very (very) low, Cutting them out of the diet due to inflated assessments of the risks has a cost.

The advantages to feeding soft edible bone vastly outweigh the risks. Feeding powdered calcium is sub-optimal.

Bill

• This reply was modified 9 years, 6 months ago by Spy Car.
• This reply was modified 9 years, 6 months ago by Spy Car.
• This reply was modified 9 years, 6 months ago by Spy Car.

[Spy Car]

Removing soft edible bone from the diet (or replacing it with pre-ground bone) removes one of the prime benefits of feeding raw in the first place. It really makes little sense unless there is a good cause for doing so (like an old dog with dental issues).

Chewing soft edible is important for good dental health in addition to providing calcium. It is a reason for embracing raw feeding, not something to figure out how to avoid.

Bill

[Cannoli]

Hi Spy Car,

I don’t consider raw finely ground vegetables to be unnecessary if fed 10% or less of the dog’s diet.

Veggies provide a plethora of additional vitamins that are not found in a meat base diet.

[Jenn H]

My pup, his mother and a littermate all began suffering from similar skin problems at the beginning of spring. Not to the severity of your dog. It appears to be environmental allergies with them.
For my puppy I would use a product I have for my horse. Eqyss Micro-Tek shampoo. “Soothes on contact”. Then I would spray the really bad areas with Eqyss Micro-Tek Equine Spray. (They do make it for dogs. It’s the same stuff, but more costly.) This stuff is amazing. I’ve used it on myself.
For his ears I use epi-otic from the vet. When I ran out I put the equine spray on a cotton ball. Make sure to dry out the ears when you clean them.
He also gets raw honey from a neighbor 2x/day. That has been the ultimate fix. As long as he gets the honey he doesn’t have any problems. After 1 wk without it he begins to get itchy and hot spots. Same with his brother.
Honey must be raw, wildflower honey that is within 50 miles from home.

Food intolerance could certainly be a factor for your dog. I would try an elimination diet if you think that’s a cause.

Tick borne diseases can go into remission and you may never have another flare up again. I have another dog that has had Ehrlichia and now Lyme. I have a bunch of horses with Lyme also. I haven’t known any of them to present with those symptoms you described.
You really need to make sure the dog has a tick borne illness before giving doxy. It’s a pretty hardcore antibiotic. You certainly don’t want to give it needlessly. It can also cause stomach issues. Maybe your dog isn’t breaking down proteins well. If they do have a tick borne illness then the immune system is already taxed. The slightest allergen can become a big problem. My girl takes a probiotic (2 hrs before or after her antibiotic when on it) to help her immune system and minimize the side effects of doxy as much as possible. Fortiflora has been working great for her. She’s on it indefinitely right now, but I continue probiotics at least 2 wks after antibiotic treatment has stopped.