[theBCnut]

As far as a joint supplement goes, it is definitely trial and error to see what works with what dog. Try that one and see if you can tell a difference. One hint on cost savings, horse joint supplements are cheaper. I really like one called Joint Armor and I get it from Jefferspet.com.

[Sadie’s Mom]

@ Dog Obsessed Have you used a glucosamine supplement before? I’m looking into GNC Ultra Mega Superfood Complex Plus Joint Health Dog Formula. I like it because it’s a powder formula and relatively inexpensive. After being on steroids for so long my dog refuses to take any pills and is picky about chewables because she doesn’t do crunchy treats. I was think a powder would be easy to mix into her food, especially if I add a tablespoon of wet in with it.

[Akari_32]

Dori, she should probably weigh about 12 pounds, so with her joint problems, I’d say she’s about good where she is now. I can see her ribs when she bends, so she’s not scrawny, but not quite at an “ideal” weight either.

I have tried giving her the glucosamine with out food, but because it’s a capsule, with everything powdered inside, she spits it out as soon as it breaks open and looks at me like in trying to kill her. This is the same dog that is on a wrapper that falls on the floor in half a second flat and tries to run off with her prize. So I figure over the food is better than nothing, especially since it’s about twice as much as she “needs”. I have seen an improvement since starting her on it, but she needs some anti-inflammatories or something, I think.

She’s doing good on the wellness simple small breed salmon, btw. No more messes in her cage at night since removing canned food from her diet! Yay! I feel like I have only dog ever that can’t eat canned food LOL

Yes, I’m just trying to do right by her. If she decides to live for another 5 years, then I’ll do what I can do to keep her comfortable and moving. If she decides she’s had enough next week (though I hope to God not! She’s my baby lol), then so be it. We took a walk this morning since it was warm enough for her to tolerate, and she loved every minute of it, and did her wiener dog run for a good quarter of it :p She was feeling it by the time we got home, though, limping on all four legs up the drive way and to the door. Poor thing lol

Don’t worry about how long your post is! I need help with this joint drama dog. I’m open to all sides of the situation :3

[theBCnut]

I can’t help with brands, but just a piece of info. She is more likely to have issues in the winter with the colder weather, so leave her food the same next summer and save the money for joint supplements for winter. Could your parents afford a joint supplement, which is usually cheaper than changing to better foods anyways?

[Akari_32]

This is the response I got back from Health Extensions:

http://i765.photobucket.com/albums/xx294/Akari53/8A7F98F8-378C-497A-829D-8DD016BC3FB0_zps7gsrsdrd.png

It doesn’t make much sence to me, however, the Publix Premium brand has 500 mg/kg, so for the price between these two, and as far as joint support goes, the Publix Premium would be the way to go. However, it’s not the most fantastic looking ingredient wise, with by-products as the second or so ingredient. It’s looking like the PVD JM is going to be the way to go, if I can’t find something else. Still unsure on that front. I will be making an appointment at the vet Thursday, money and time permitting.

[theBCnut]

Um, I hate to say this, but you must be way overfeeding her for her to gain 4 lbs in 1 week, and that alone can cause diarrhea. With all dogs, but especially large and giant breed dogs, it is very important for them to have slow even growth. Fast growth means that their joints are forming too fast and not necessarily well, which means hip and elbow dysplasia. Feed her to keep her athletically lean, no extra weight. Keep her on probiotics until she has had normal stools for at least 2 weeks.

You may want to look into a supplement by the Honest Kitchen called Perfect Form. A lot of rescue dogs have had really bad cases of worms that have damaged the gut lining and it may take months for the damage to heal. Perfect Form has some really nice ingredients to soothe irritated intestines and firm up sloppy stools.

Have you looked at the Large and Giant Breed Puppy Nutrition thread?

[crazy4cats]

I have only fed the grain free joint health formula so far. I can get it in a 50 lb bag, which is nice as I have two dogs and I have to drive always to get it. It is pretty much the same as the all life stages grain free except it has additional glucosamine and chondroitin in it. I have one that is very active and one that isn’t and they are litter mates. Go figure! I just have to feed the active one more. I think the fat to protein is very good in this food. Did you find a retailer in your area?

[LindaW]

It can take anywhere from 6 weeks to 6 months and sometimes up to a year (but that’s not an average) for a tick-borne virus to show in a Snap 4D test. Monitor your dog in the next few weeks to see whether there is any lethargy, loss of appetite, stiffness in joints/limping. If a Snap comes back positive, sometimes it is a false positive (or negative!). However, if positive please be sure to have the quantitative C6 test (blood work to see whether there is an active infection) sent to your vet’s lab (Idexx, etc.) There is great information on the Tick-L list (yahoo groups). An absolutely WONDERFUL homeopathic remedy to use if your fur-baby gets Lyme or anaplasmosis is Ledum 1M given 3x daily for just 3 days. Then stop. There have been extensive tests and actual humans and dogs who have been given this protocol totally successfully. Tick disease gone. No doxy etc. I’ve used it successfully. I am NOT a vet. Hope this helps.

[theBCnut]

I LOVE Border Collies!!!!

Yes, print up the lists for 4 and 5 star foods and take them with you to all the local pet food stores around. Make note on where you can find what and for how much. I really like Earthborn Holistic and NutriSource.

Make sure you limit your pup’s physical activity until he is full grown, 5 minutes per month of age of human directed activity. BCs are prone to wanting to overdo it and hurting themselves. If you find he want more exercise than is good for him, teach tricks. Mental exercise is very tiring, he’ll learn lots of cool things, and he’ll be too tired to find too much trouble to get into. Also keep him lean while he is growing to encourage slow formation of his joints.

Have fun with your pup!!!

[theBCnut]

Um, what is considered a therapeutic dose of glucosamine for your dog? Does this food come close? I’ve read that the reason joint support foods are a waste of money is because they do NOT even have a therapeutic dose, so in the end, you do have to still add a joint supplement. That’s OK if you get the food at a good price and you like how your dog does on the food, but not OK at all if you have to pay more for it and then add a supplement, especially if your dog isn’t doing remarkable on it.

[Dog_Obsessed]

Thanks for the responses everyone!

@Dori I always try to click right before or during the treat, but this time I clicked a tiny bit after by accident. The trainer at the class said you should always give the treat with the click, but I have had a lot of success with the “random rewards” method of training once the dog has learned the command.

@aquaraingt No, this was not at Zoom Room.

@BCnut That’s a really good idea, if she is still scared of the muffled clicker I will try it.

The other weird thing is that last night, when I was giving Lily her joint supplement, I asked her to sit as I always do. This time though, she seemed to be kind of scared and ran off again. She didn’t shake or seem scared afterward, but she didn’t want to come back so I didn’t push her and just gave her the joint supplement. I just think something about this whole experience doesn’t quite add up. It’s really unusual for Lily to have that scared a reaction to anything, much less still be scared several hours later. I’m wondering if she’s had some passed bad experience, not with a clicker necessarily but with some loud noise. I know I might be overgeneralizing her fear, but it still seems like a possibility.

[Akari_32]

I’m not looking at just the main ingredients. Yes, I think Brewers rice and corn gluten meal aren’t quality ingredients, but looking at the bigger picture, there’s a good amount of animal protein in the food, and elevated levels of omega, glucosamine and antioxidants that I could not achieve on my own. Patty, you’ve said yourself quality comes second, and using what works for each dog is the priority. I’m not looking for “this food has a couple questionable ingredients, it’s absolute garbarge,” I’m looking for objective replies on if this food does or does not do what it’s supposed to do. I know how to pick quality dog foods, but I’m really just beyond that at this point with Ginger. The poor thing needs something more than I’m doing right now, and I’m grasping for straws at this point.

I can’t afford to spend any more on supliments (and dog food) than I’m already spending, and if I dump anymore glucosamine pills on this dogs 1/2 cup of food, she’s going to think I’m nuts. It’s bitter and she hates it. That said, if there is a commercial, non-prescription food that doesn’t charge out the nose and does what this is supposed to do, by all means, suggest away. I’m looking at $15 a bag without coupons, or including shipping.

Btw, have you two *seen*, say, Hill’s joint food? Now *that* is nasty stuff. Purina looks like it’s made of gold compared to Hill’s. Just saying.

And Aimee, thank you for the link. I wish I knew half of what they were saying! Seems like products like this do actually work, or at least help, though.

Bobby Dog and Aimee, you’re right about rotating. I forget how long it takes to see results with joint supliments lol I hate to keep her one food, but I think minimal switching around is best. Once I find something for her I like, I will have to just keep her on it.

[aimee]

Hi Akari,

I found this study http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22805303 in which significant improvement was demonstrated through the use of a veterinary joint support diet. This study was double blinded and placebo controlled and used force plate analysis to measure the amount of weight the dog was willing to bear on the limb, so I do think joint diets have a place in managing arthritis. I can’t tell from the abstract which company’s product was used, but I don’t think it was Hills as their Omega 3 looks to be more ALA based.

I wouldn’t rotate the diet unless to one of similar EPA/DHA content and Omega 6/3 ratio otherwise I’d think the benefits would be lost. It takes time ( 6 weeks???) to incorporate the fatty acids into the cells and if you change off you may switch before any benefit would be seen.

With a Omega 6:3 ratio of 1.7:1 it may be difficult achieve that with supplementation of a standard diet. If your vet thinks it is appropriate I’d most definitely give this diet a trial of at least 3 months. It has a nice nutrient profile and nice ingredient line up!

[InkedMarie]

I wouldn’t feed that at all. Brewers rice and the first ingredient? Corn gluten meal? Animal digest? These are the makings of a crap food. There are many supplements & drugs to use for joint issues. Grains are inflammatory, making this a poor choice.

[Akari_32]

As a member of Purina For Professionals, I was cruising the site out of curiosity and checking out the prices that I can get different foods for, for the giggles. Well, I clicked on the JM and was actually surprised at how good it looks compared to the other VD. Four of the first six ingredients are animal proteins, and it meets the low-fat requirements that Ginger needs, but has that higher protein I like to see.

https://www.purinaforprofessionals.com/canine-jm-joint-mobilityr

She’s always limping around, and has been favoring one her shoulders and been reluctant to get on and off the bed lately (she has doggy stairs). She’s on about 350 mg of glucosamine a day, but it’s not really helping much, and she’s really nasty when she’s in pain. I’m to the point now where if something helps her, I want to use it. This is a pretty decent looking food, and the reviews on it say it does help with their dogs joints.

Since the clinic I was at when I got my membership is closed now, I’m going to email and rep and make sure I can use another clinic’s prescription. She’s cool, so I don’t think it’ll be a problem, seeing as the food is delivered to my door, and not the clinics anyways.

If I’m able to use another vets script, do you guys it would be a good choice? You all know I’m not particularly a Purina fan, but I’m really to the point where I’m grasping at straws to affordably keep this dog pain-free, diarrhea-free, and mobile. She may be 14, but she’s got so much spunk left him her, I just want to do whats right by her. I’m still unsure if I would use just this, or if I would rotate it ever other bag. Still haven’t quite figured out how she does on rotation now that I’ve taken all the canned out of her diet and reduced her fat intake. Thats the next step.

I’m unsure if the shopping part of the site is just for logged-in members or not, so please let me know if that link doesn’t work, and I’ll just copy/paste everything here.

[Nelson P]

Hi everyone,
It’s the first time I post on this thread but have been learning a lot from reading it (specially from HDM). So, first of all thanks! Now, hopefully you guys don’t mind if I ask for a little more help. I have a 3 months old Golden Retriever. I have been feeding him Royal Canin Golden Retriever Junior (recommended by the vet.) but as you all know, it’s not the best choice. I want to do better. Unfortunately I don’t have the time or money to feed him a proper raw meal. Not now, maybe in the future (who knows). Good Canned is also very expensive (maybe I can add it as a topper sometimes). So I have to stick with kibble. Would like to choose from HDM list but I live in Europe (Portugal) and we don’t have those brands here (stores or online) and buy it from a international online store would also be too expensive for the shipping. I had to look for other brands and try to stick with the guidelines I learn here. As sad as it may look I couldn’t find too many brands to choose from (there are plenty but not that good). Basically I found 2 options: Orijen/Acana large breed puppy (I know it’s borderline with the calcium levels) or Naturea. Naturea is a portuguese brand but they produce there food in a UK factory tucked into a rural area (as they stated in their website). They have the same Biologically Appropriate concept that Champions have. It’s possible none of you ever heard about this brand (I too didn’t know them until yesterday). I don’t know if I can post the website here for you guys to help me analyse their food so I’ll copy/past their Technical Information:

Composition:
Chicken (includes Fresh Deboned Chicken and Chicken Meal), Sweet Potato, Egg Powder,
Chicken Fat, Potato Protein, Lucerne, Linseed, Chicken Gravy, Salmon Oil, Minerals,
Vitamins, Glucosamine, Methylsulfonylmethane, Chondroitin Sulphate, Apple, Carrot,
Tomato, Spinach, Psyllium, Rosehips, Camomile, Burdock Root, Peppermint, Marigold,
Seaweed, Cranberry, Dandelion, Fructooligosaccharides, Aniseed, Fenugreek, Yucca
Schidigera Extract, Thyme, Marjoram, Oregano, Parsley, Sage.

Animal Ingredients (63%):
Chicken Meal (low ash) 31.17%
Fresh Deboned Chicken 13.85%
Egg Powder 8.22%
Chicken Fat 7.36%
Chicken Gravy 1.73%
Salmon Oil 0.86%

Typical Analysis:
Crude Protein 32%
Crude Fat 21%
Crude Fibre 3%
Moisture 8.5%
Carbohydrates 27.5%
Crude Ash 8%
Metabolisable Energy 387 kCal/100g
Calcium 1.21%
Phosphorus 1.04%

Coat, cardio & Joints:
Linoleic Acid (Omega 6) 3.09%
Linolenic Acid (Omega 3) 1.07%
Glucosamine 889 mg/kg
Chondroitin 625 mg/kg
Methylsulfonylmethane (MSM) 889 mg/kg

Other Vitamins, Amnio Acids & Minerals:
Vitamin A 25730 IU/kg
Vitamin D3 1730 IU/kg
Vitamin E (as alpha-tocopherol acetate) 231 IU/kg
Vitamin B1 10 mg/kg
Vitamin B2 23 mg/kg
Vitamin B6 10 mg/kg
Vitamin B12 127 mcg/kg
Biotin 323 mcg/kg
Folic acid 1.73 mg/kg
Niacin 35 mg/kg
Choline Chloride 240 mg/kg
Pantothenate 20 mg/kg
Potassium 1.04%
Sodium 0.36%
Chloride 0.63%
Magnesium 0.1%
Zinc (as zinc sulphate monohydrate) 285 mg/kg
Zinc (as chelate of amino acids hydrate) 342 mg/kg
Copper (as cupric sulphate monohydrate) 41 mg/kg
Copper (as cupric chelate of amino acids hydrate) 51 mg/kg
Manganese (as manganous sulphate monohydrate) 112 mg/kg
Iron (as ferrous sulphate monohydrate) 309 mg/kg
Iron (as ferrous chelate of amino acids hydrate) 21 mg/kg
Iodine (as calcium iodate anhydrous) 1.58 mg/kg
Selenium (as sodium selenite) 0.51 mg/kg

Sorry for the long text. I need to decide on a food sooner than later to start the transition. In the future I would like to rotate different brands (If I can find good ones), and add toppers as suggested here. But for now I really have to decide. Origin, Naturea or other world available brand? Can you help me? So afraid to make the wrong choice. Any other advice on dog/puppy health would be great 🙂

P.S. As for the toppers, besides eggs, tinned sardines, plain yogurt, kefir, cottage cheese, and veggies what can I add without throwing off the balance?

[Naturella]

Akari, thank you! I am still a bit far from your abilities, but I’m trying!

Also, I will certainly check for any of the cans on sale! So, I think I have a plan! One can each flavor of Wellness 95%, one small can of each CORE flavor, and one tiny tub of each of the Petite Entrees, and I will use 15 of the $2-off coupons, plus 3 of the $5-off specialty brand coupons just for this canned. In the end, it should be close to $0 (just for the Wellness canned) as I will make some money off the CORE (if on that sale) and the petite entrees ($1.20/tubbie). 😀 This will make it 6.75lbs of Wellness canned, so a whopping total of 47.05lbs of food for the IDEAL $30.00 or so (POSSIBLY less if I make money off of the CORE and tubbies). Let’s see if I can make it happen!!!

Also, I think Bruno should be okay – if anything, he will eat slower, I guess. And Snowy used to be on Kibbles ‘N’ Bits so she will be fine with dime-sized bits too. I may just stick to the Puppy and Small Breed, but we’ll see.

I really hope I can do my “humble” 2 transactions and walk out like a boss with a TON of food. They do get paid for manufacturer coupons, but what about their own coupons? The $5-off ones… Do they make anything off of them? And I am so nervous, hope it all works out well tomorrow and they have all the foods I want… So we’ll see! 🙂
I am so donating 1/2 of my Earthborn Holistic Primitive Natural for immediate use and 1/2 of my Earthborn Great Plains Feast (cause I got huge bags of those, so Bruno will have 7lbs of each and I will give the rest to friends), so that I can make room for the new food. Now to figure out a way for hubby to not notice (which will be hard with a joint bank account, lol), but I seriously will contain myself from then on. One year of no purchases. Till Black Friday/Cyber Monday/Holiday deals 2015. I can and WILL do this!

[Naturella]

Nancy, I have fed the seafood Victor (Yukon Salmon) mixed with other foods with great success and no more than 3 BMs per day. I am actually going to feed the High-Pro and the Joint one for a bit and alternate them – I have a ton of samples, enough for about 2 weeks of just them or longer in rotation – a meal of Victor and a meal of some other food, I think my next one is Wysong Nurture with Quail – so I will see how Bruno does. But I really like Victor and would not mind trying a whole bag of it once my current stash is out.

I think @crazy4cats has been feeding a lot of it, and maybe @Melissaandcrew .

[pugmomsandy]

There are several supplements I like to give to seniors (and adults): joint, greens, ubiquinol, fish oil, bee pollen, probiotics.

[InkedMarie]

some to look at: K9 Liquid health, Kan Essentials Benefits Hips & Knees, DGP (DogGonePain), Swanson vitamins Joint Mobility plus, Green Lipped mussel

[Cynthia R]

My 12.5 year old boxer had advanced arthritis in his knees and began staggering. We had to put up a baby gate around stairs because he staggered and fell down them:-(.
You may want to consider adding fish oil to his daily supplements.
My vet had our boy on 3 grams of fish oil daily (helps with joints along with many other benefits, so all my dogs are given this daily), loading dose of glyco-flex lll (our vet also likes phycox), prevacox, tramadol as needed the last year of his life. I raised him on a grain-free diet(raw).

[Rich]

Anyone with suggestions concerning other products available off the shelf products for joints and other senior issues?

And do any of the brands contain Glucosamine/Chondroitin in them from the processor?

• This reply was modified 11 years ago by Rich.

[BeachDogs]

Good to know about the calcium and joint health. Thanks! Both dogs are coming from deboned lamb and deboned chicken formulas, and the Victor has beef meal, chicken meal and pork meal. That is where the glucosamine and chondroitin would come from I’m thinking. It’s not a deal breaker right now anyway. I’m wondering if picking Victor was a good decision. It has a decent protein amount at 33%, though, that’s a tad more than they’ve been getting. The source might not be the best in Victor. I do plan on trying a rotational diet and could switch to something else in a couple of months.

Perhaps I’ll look at NutriSource again and Earthborn. As you might have noticed, I am looking for a good food with a budget-friendly price for now.

Thanks for the reply!

[theBCnut]

For a large breed over 10 month old, you don’t have to worry about the calcium so much because they are able to regulate their calcium uptake. Being inside the 1:1-2:1 ratio is pretty much for life and all breeds of dog. It is extremely likely that all chicken based dog foods do have glucosamine and chondroitin in them, because they are extremely likely to have chicken cartilage in them. People want to think that only the finest cuts of chicken go into their dog food, and dog food companies want to let them believe that, so they don’t advertise that they just throw in the whole chicken. They only bring up the glucosamine and chondroitin when they can make a plus out of it. It is NEVER a therapeutic amount, even in joint care foods, so if your dogs actually need it, you still need to add it in.

[Vianca V]

Have you tried the wellness core reduced fat with a little groud turkey as a topper with some broth. That works for my senior, it keeps weight of so there is less stress on his back and joints and he seems to love it. Also do you have access to a pool, a jacuzzi or have a big bath tub. I had on of my dogs work out in out tub for his arthritis pain and it helped a lot.

[InkedMarie]

Seniors, unless they have specific medical issues, require no special diet. They need as much protein as other dogs, which is a higher amount of protein. In fact, studies show seniors need more protein than younger dogs!

At 14, she may have some arthritis. A grain free food would be best as grains are inflammatory. Are you giving her a joint supplement as well?

[Alina S]

Hi!

I have a Rottweiler x Corgi mix, who weighs about 30 pounds. I feed him Nature’s Variety Instinct Grain Free duck and turkey dry food, and he gets a 1/4 can of the NV wet food each feeding. I buy it in a variety of proteins. And at night, he gets NuPro joint supplement.

Three days ago, he had pretty bad diarrhea as I was walking him. I stopped his NuPro supplement that night. The next day, he also had really bad diarrhea on our walk. On the same walk, even though he had already gone #2, he stopped two more times, except the only thing that came out was a little bit of brown liquid. I didn’t feed him at all yesterday.

Today, before his breakfast, I took him on a walk and he had a little bit of diarrhea again! It was just a small amount, as he had not eaten the day before. I gave him some dry food when we got home today.

He isn’t having any accidents in the house, it is only when we walk outside. He’s playful, bright eyes, cold and wet nose, and otherwise seems to be okay.

What could the problem be?

[theBCnut]

The 1.5 cups ber day is for a full grown adult dog. Puppies definitely need more. Guesstimate how much your pup should weigh full grown and then use that amount for the feeding guideline. I would expect it to be around 4-6 cups. Assess your pups body condition often and adjust food accordingly. Make sure to keep your pup lean so it grows slowly. This helps avoid joint issues. Have you looked at the large and giant breed puppy nutrition thread?

[crazy4cats]

Julie-
I’m glad you got some good suggestions from Jenny. My previous dog was overweight and I wish I knew then what I know now. With my current dogs, I go mostly by calories, not the feeding recommendations on the bag. I never realized how much difference there could be in calories between different Kibbles. I try to use kibble that is 400 calories or less a cup so I can add different toppers to their meals and still be able to give them a decent amount of kibble to satisfy them. I used the dog food calculator on this site to find a starting point. I subtract calories to account for the “treats” they are fed throughout the day. I have two male labs that are right around 80 lbs. One is a tiny bit thick and the other is very lean at this weight. I feed mostly Victor grain free joint health kibble and add a different protein rich topper to every meal. I wish you luck. I know it is tough to keep our labbies lean. They are eating machines!

[crazy4cats]

Hi Rachel-
Oops! I found another glitch, I think. When I checked both the chicken and beef boxes, Victor grain free joint health was listed. It has both of those ingredients in it. In fact, that is what I regularly feed my dogs and was trying to find something with different protein to rotate with. LOL! Thank you for this tool. It has given me some other ideas.

[crazy4cats]

Hi Linda J-
Welcome to DFA. My labs’ favorite dry food is grain free Victor Joint Health. I feed other kibble now and then also, but usually end up back with this again. I mix something in with every meal, such as canned, dehydrated, raw or fresh foods. Once a week, I try to feed them a kibble free meal with the See Spot Live Longer dinner mix. I stick to mostly the budget friendly list for both kibble and canned.
Also, most pet stores will take back a bag of food if your dogs don’t like it, or it doesn’t agree with them. Who knew that feeding your pets could be so complicated? LOL!
What do your dogs eat now? I’m sure you will get some more opinions. Good luck!

[Millie S]

Very helpful info…thanks all!

We have a 10 mo old, 90 lb. Irish wolf Bernard (Irish wolfhound crossed with a St. Bernard), our first giant breed. She’s fairly recently been having what seem to be growing pains or joint problems. Vet’s X-rays show no issues or concern with joints and chalk it up to bone density issues. Episodes have been completely debilitating a handful of times. Currently prescribed an anti inflammatory. Realizing, after reading, that we’ve probably not been feeding her properly. Been giving her a natural locally farmed mix of dog food. Higher in protein (26% crude protein), but no indication of calcium content. Any suggestions on what food might best suit her or how to remedy her discomfort/pain?

[Sheena G]

I’ve been really happy with Dogswell Happy Hips Jerky Strips dog treats. I have a golden retriever who’s a big time foodie (I think all goldies are!), so I was happy to find a grain-free treat with vitamins added for joint health. I tried the chicken one first, but then found out my cat (who is allergic to poultry) loves these treats too, so I started getting the lamb option… made in the US, human-grade ingredients, not too pricey at Ralph’s, & they keep my kiddos happy! 🙂

[crazy4cats]

Hi Jane E-
I feed my pups Victor Grain Free Joint formula to my dogs that also have some type of colitis due to previous bouts of internal parasites. There are peas in the ingredients after the meat and sweet potatoes. I’m not sure if your dogs would be able to tolerate that or not. The kibble, however, contains montmorillonite clay which claims to help with dogs with colitis. My dogs do better with this kibble than any other that I’ve fed. Check out their site:
http://www.victordogfood.com/ I’ve also heard that others with this issue use Canine Caviar and Wellness Simple. Good luck!

[Edwina M]

I want to thank all of you who responded. We are getting very concerned about his unsteadiness but as I said it has only been a week. We will do the egg and get the milk thistle. My mother spent 3.5 years in POW camps during WWII she came down with breast cancer when I was 5. She became a Herbalist and our home was filled with books also medical books on the microbiological level. I have used herbs all my life and have been giving him a Vet OK’d herb to keep him calm being as we have learned Great Dane puppies are hyper and have a long growing period so they need to rest. We will get the Milk Thistle they have been using it for years in Europe to heal the liver. We will also get the vitamin for his joints and I am also giving him 3 drops of Astragalus a day, it is an immune system booster that is so strong it actually does not allow chemotherapy to enter cells so cancer patients can not take it.

We are in touch with a Vet and she is monitoring what we are doing but she says the tests are very expensive and to be honest we don’t have that kind of money but when he is stronger in a couple of weeks we will take him to her and she will tell us the news.

We were thinking since there is a Great Dane breeder only 6 miles from where he was found that he ran away and got lost in the woods and spent several weeks wandering around because there are no signs of abuse on him. But we have feared that he was thrown out deep into the woods because he is neurologically deficient. I pray not and in my life my family have always been an animal magnet and we were overflowing with their presence and the love and companionship they gave us. This trend followed me into my own family and trickled down even now. Always there was a reason, I have hindsight, so there is a reason he was brought into our lives and we will learn it.

Thank you all again. Yadja

[theBCnut]

Just in case, give him a good thorough bath with Dawn. He may have gotten it to something poisonous that is affecting his neuro system and while you can’t get it out of him, you may be able to get some off him. It may be that he was born with a neuro condition. I wouldn’t wait to get him checked out, because the vet can give you an idea which it may be, and tell you what supplements may help most. I would want to give milk thistle for a few days just in case he got into something. It helps the liver, just in case, but if he didn’t get into anything it won’t hurt. Also, I would want to make sure he is getting a raw egg every other day with one meal, and adding lightly cooked egg to one meal on the other days wouldn’t hurt either. You want the white cooked but the yolk raw on those. That will supply some of the nutrients he needs to clear his system, if he can. Good luck and thanks for helping this big boy. Unfortunately, this issue may be why you found him where he was. Someone may not have wanted to deal with all of this. He may also have severe hip dysplasia and just can’t use his hind end right. A joint supplement may or may not help that. Osteo Bi-Flex for humans is a really good one. And that also won’t hurt anything if he doesn’t really need it, but I haven’t met the Dane yet who didn’t.

[theBCnut]

They are more prone to joint issues and bone cancer.

[anna r]

Our vet recommended Krill Doctor Professional for my York Shire Terrier’s heart & joint. Past 2 years she have been using it and it works great.

[theBCnut]

As growing puppies, large and giant breeds have very specific calcium requirements, which most large breed puppy foods don’t even meet, but once they are grown, you can feed them whatever. Just concentrate on feeding a correct amount of good quality food so that they don’t become overweight and more prone to joint issues. You may also want to add a joint supplement to help ward off damage to joints.

Some large breed formulas have joint supplements added in, but they are never actually at a therapeutic dose unless you over feed by quite a lot. Some restrict one nutrient or another based on old outdated research.

[Bobby dog]

Awwwwww! That’s good news. I am not sure joint supps kick in that fast, but without a doubt the grooming, dental care, and antibiotics are making a positive impact to her quality of life. Love and attention from a new family (and the annoying Bentley) can’t hurt either! I was just trying to get some info together for the cat thread. So be on the lookout. 😉

[Bobby dog]

Hi Victoria W:
I understand your budget constraints and hopefully I can offer some more suggestions in addition to the ones you have received. You are very kind to give your relative’s dogs the extra attention they need!

It is surprising they would continue to pay for office visits and medication without trying a new diet as well. However, it sounds like she has an infection and needs antibiotics at this time.

Buying a 50 lbs. bag of food is convenient for large dog owners. Throw in a price of about 45 cents/lb. and it’s hard to talk someone out of buying it. In the future, if you are able to convince them to try another food they should expect to pay at least $1/lb. for a food with more meat protein; about $10 – $15 more per bag. If they would agree to this price point you could find some decent kibbles for them in 40-50 lbs bags.

If you decide to add a new food or supplement be sure to add slowly and in small portions building up to the desired amounts.

If your relatives will only shop at Wal-Mart for dog food and are adamant about feeding Ol’ Roy, maybe you could suggest they try adding other brands to their dogs’ diet along with Ol’ Roy. Here‘s a thread with kibble & canned foods available at Wal-Mart with decent ratings:
/forums/search/Wal-Mart/

There is a PDF download from Steve Brown, “See Spot Live Longer the ABC Way.” It will help you improve any quality of kibble with the addition of fresh foods (eggs, tinned fish, fresh meat, vegetables) you can get at the grocery store. There is a menu that walks you through the amounts of each food to add according to the quality of kibble being fed and the size of the dog. I feed anything from a 3 to 5 star kibble and this download helps me to improve my dog’s diet very easily and affordably. I add the fresh food over several meals rather than feeding it in one day.
http://www.seespotlivelonger.com/home/sll/page_41/see_spot_live_longer_the_abc_way___electronic_down.html

I don’t always have sardines on hand for my dog and when I don’t I supplement his diet with CVS drug store 1000 mg fish oil capsules 3x/week. I also supplement vitamin E once a week regardless if I feed sardines or CVS fish oil. Here’s a link to more info on supplements, it’s also a great site with lots of other info:
http://dogaware.com/diet/supplements.html

As far as mercury or chemical contamination, smaller fish are not usually high in contaminates due to their short life span and the depth of water they live in. Herring, menhaden, and sardines are some smaller species. Here’s a site with some more info on contamination in fish and a link to a wallet card with a list of fish and the degree of contamination they may have:
http://www.nrdc.org/health/effects/mercury/

I think adding some probiotics to her diet would really help with her skin issues; it helped tremendously with healing my cat’s skin. This would also help keep the antibiotics from destroying the friendly bacteria in her digestive system. An affordable way to do this is to feed unflavored kefir; most grocery stores sell kefir and it has a very long shelf life. I add it to my cat and dog’s food daily. Here’s some info:
http://ottawavalleydogwhisperer.blogspot.com/2012/05/foods-rich-in-probiotics-beneficial-for.html

Other probiotics recommended by regular posters are Dr. Stephen Langer’s Ultimate 15 Strain Probiotic, Swanson Ultra Soil Based Organisms, and Mercola complete.

Coconut oil would be another food that would help with her skin. I add it to my dog’s food 3x/week, more if he has skin issues. I also apply it directly to his skin when it’s irritated. Unfortunately, he loves it so much I have to be sure I have time to supervise him so he doesn’t lick it off before it’s absorbed. Only use unrefined organic. The best price I have found for it was at BJ’s or Costco; Wal-Mart also has a good price just in a smaller jar. Here’s some info on the benefits and dosage:
http://ottawavalleydogwhisperer.blogspot.com/2012/02/coconut-oil-is-good-for-your-dogs.html

After a bad experience with my cat and steroids when my dog developed a skin infection I was more than willing to put in the work I needed to help him heal. Bathing with medicated shampoo and applying antibiotic cream regularly was integral in healing his infection. The active ingredients in Malasab shampoo is 2% Miconazole Nitrate and 2% Chlorhexidine Gluconate. There are some generic alternatives that might be more budget friendly. Look for my post on page 3 from June 9, 2014 at 6:40 pm for info on some alternatives and for some ingredients to look for in medicated shampoos.
/forums/topic/maybe-its-time-for-a-diet-change/page/3/

I don’t have any experience with a dog that has hip dysplasia, but I think you are on the right track with a glucosamine supplement. Here are two threads that might be helpful:
/forums/topic/joint-health/
/forums/topic/budget-friendly-supplements-for-14-year-old-dachshund/

And here’s a coupon thread that might help with your pet food budget. The first page is an intro and the last page has the most current info posted.
Page 1:
/forums/topic/coupons/
Current page:
/forums/topic/coupons/page/15/

[Bobby dog]

Very nice update! So glad you got her in for an exam and to care for her teeth. You really should give brushing her teeth a try. Sometimes it’s easier than you think it would be. I used to brush this grumpy old Chi mix’s teeth for a friend of mine because she was afraid of being bitten. You would imagine she would bite your hand off as grumpy as she was, but it was just the opposite she would just try her best to taste every bit of the paste.

When my JRT reached her senior years I just gave her some of my horses joint supplement. Joint supplements are expensive and it’s cheaper that way when you have a zoo. I use mostly Uckele and the Natural Vet products, some Vita-Flex and Select the Best also. My favorite supplement for my entire zoo is MSM. Pure MSM is very cheap to buy at tack shops or feed stores. I would look for a supplement with glucosamine, MSM, chondroitin, and hyaluronic acid (HA). Devils claw and yucca is good too.
http://equine.uckele.com/Canine/joint

Here’s a brief article on herbs for animal arthritis:
http://www.animalwellnessmagazine.com/articles/top-5-herbs-for-arthritis/

[Akari_32]

Just giving you guys a little update.

I took Ginger to the vet with me this morning and we did a urinalysis on her, and the vet did an over all general exam. Despite her nasty teeth, and the good 10 or so fatty tumors, she’s in good health. We did what we could through a make-sift muzzle with her teeth (we used a bit of gauze tied around her mouth as a muzzle so we could get at her teeth with out her biting, and “cracked” off what tartar build up we could), and her pee came out looking good. The tech said one day, when I’m rich and famous, I should get her teeth done for real, but we both know thats pretty unlikely lol

I was concerned with a kidney problem because she had pee’d just straight water last week on the floor, and I can’t ever see how it looks in the grass obviously, but the tech didn’t find anything suspicious in there today, and I’m not going to pay for blood work if we don’t need to do it. If it persists, then I’ll worry about it, but she seems fine, and going off what I’ve told them, they don’t seem worried about it either.

When we were doing her teeth, she started on one of her canines, and said it was too loose for her to feel comfortable with doing much to, and that it would likely fall out some time soon. And poor Ginger just cried and cried when we were done with her teeth. Hopefully getting some of that junk off her teeth will make her mouth feel better, though. I’ll give her all canned food tonight so she doesn’t have to crunch on the kibbles.

Anyways, she’s as healthy as she’s going to get at the moment, which is good. I’m looking into some joint supplements, and hopefully that’ll help with her biting when getting picked up, once those start to kick in, and help relieve some of that pain, as well. The vet sent me home with a script for chewable amoxicillin to help with her mouth situation, and gave me two refills for when its starts getting bad again. Free antibiotics is the best I can do for her teeth and mouth at the moment and he knows it. If we were to do anything beyond that, it’d be knocking her and pulling all her teeth (or at least a good majority of them), which I can’t afford, and would like to avoid if possible, anyways lol At this point, he’s just happy to see her in a home thats caring for her, and I’m sure Ginger feels the same way.

[Susan]

Hi Akari, I have arthritis… When I take Patch on his 7am walk every morning my knees & hips hurt at the begining of our walk but after 5mins of walking, its not as bad, by the end of our 15min walk my knees are all good..
Before I got Patch I wasnt walking as much & my knees were real bad but since I got Patch my knees are so much better just from walking 3-4 times a day, so try & do a few little walks thru the day, a morning walk is the best cause it gets everything working & your right for the rest of the day, also heat packs, the ones u heat in microwave are good, I think they are called wheat packs, they are material with wheat in them & you put in micro wave for a couple of minutes, if u can put one on her sore joints, it will help her especially in the winter, thats when its the worst the cold weather..There’s injection that dogs get monthly from vet, I dont know the name, my neighbour was getting them monthly for his little dog, they were cheap, only $18 a month & my neighbour said that the needle made Jack heaps better, you could ask the vet about the needle for arthritis..
When my other dog had arthritis, I bought the human Glucosamine the powder & would put 1 teaspoon on her meals, there’s a dog one called Sashas blend but it dear cause its a dog one but the vet said that the human Glucosamine powder is the same.. also a very soft massage will help..

[Akari_32]

Thanks Patty, I’ll look for something like that. Any brands you know of that would be a good starting point for my search?

Melissa, that is exactly why I brought her home in the first place. The previous owner literally came into the vets office I’m interning at and said she’s biting, and to put her down. She was obviously extremely stressed about something and in poor health, which right away caught my (relatively slight, but ever increasing) knowledge of animal behavior. She had been in about two weeks before for a bladder infection, and was given liquid amoxicillin. The owner was, and I quote, putting her in a head lock and shoving it down her throat. And guess when all this biting started? Right after the antibiotics started. Imagine that. Doesn’t take a rocket scientist to figure out a simple change in administering the medication would have solved all your problems, lady! I just wunna smack that chick… lol

So now, I’m working with her on not flinching away from contact (she used to expect every touch to hurt, but now she’s pretty good about not being so stressed about it, and loves butt scratches and ear rubs), and I’m working with her on at least accepting being picked up, because lets face it– a small dog has to be picked up at some point or another. There are places they just can’t (or won’t and need to be) get to themselves. I think once she’s on something that is helping relieve some of that pain, we will get further with getting her more comfortable with certain things. I think she may need to be on something like Previcox for the rest her life for actual pain relief, though. But before I do that, I want to see how she does on joint supplements, as it is safer in the long run for her, and easier on my budget.

One big thing I’ve noticed, after we take a decent walk, and she’s all exhausted and in a good, happy mood, and she’s too tired to care, I can pick her right up and she’s happy to let me. You can see a relief and acceptance in her eyes at being picked up when she’s in that state. So a good deal of it is certainly mental from whatever rough treatment she was subjected to before, but I have no doubt that over all, she is in some degree of pain, and it does need to be dealt with. I can only imagine how uncomfortable it is for her to be hurting all the time.

[theBCnut]

Look for a supplement that has HA in the name or hyaluronic acid in the ingredients. I also like MSM in joint supplements. It helps as a carrier for glucosamine and has biologically available sulfur, which joints need.

[Akari_32]

As you guys may know, I recently took in an old Dachshund with several health and behavioral problems, all due to lack of proper care and rough treatment.

One of her biggest problems is she’s always limping and when she hurts too much, she lashes out at almost any handling (mainly when being picked up). I know they are prone to back problems, and from what I’ve seen of her extremely limited vet records, she’s had no such problems. She does have problems with her shoulders and hips, though. Typical old dog stuff, really, but she’s learned from experience in her previous home that lashing out and biting when she’s in pain will get her left alone. I need to get her on some sort of good, but relatively cheap, joint/etc supplement (glucosamine is the first thing that comes to mind) that will help with any pain she’s having, and help prevent or slow down any further joint or bone damage and help with the arthritis I’m sure she has. I also need some tips on getting her to understand that biting is not the answer, if anyone has any.

She loves to be active, and I want to keep her that way. She does limp more after walks, but she doesn’t seem to notice, and loves the stimulation. It’s like she loves to just be so tired she doesn’t want to do anything. She just looks so happy after long walks, and you can tell that she is over all calmer and less high strung (she paces all day with no good walks) . Obviously, I want to keep her happy and active, but I don’t want to cause any more damage to her joints, so we need to get her on something good before she gets much worse.

I’ve tried Pro Sense glucosamine chewables from Walmart on my other dogs, and they really didn’t do anything that I noticed. Granted, they don’t really have any problems in that department, despite being large and freakishly huge, and 10 11 years old, so there is that. I shop mostly at Pet Supermarket and PetSmart, but can also go to PetCo and look at stuff online, and I work at Publix (only one dog joint supplement there, but it’s like $20, so I’m good on that, but people supplements are always an option, too).

And she is already on fish oil and coconut oil, rotated daily, so that’s already covered. So, anything you guys have, go for it! I’d like to only spend about $10 a month, if possible, but take that loosely when giving me suggestions.

Thanks guys!

[CMZ]

Crazy4cats
Sorry for the misunderstanding, he was diagnosed with hip dysplasia as a pup. 4 months old.
I agree when the first ingredient is corn!! I do keep his weight down. He is only 94-95 lbs.
They are so stoic, I can never really tell if he is having trouble. When we took him in to the vets in August, they thought he was a bit stiff, so we started him on the injectable adequin
Again, so hard to tell if its helping. I just took him off the rimadyl a couple days ago, I don’t really notice any difference. So I guess thats a good thing.
As far as the food JD is suppose to have a good amount of glucosamine for his joints. But for now I think I will keep him on his current foods and just the supplements. I don’t like the corn as the first ingredient. thanks

[Dori]

Hi Akari. Sorry to hear about Ginger’s fall. She’ll need taller steps if she’s going to be on your mother’s bed. I have to have a four step stairs by our bed for the girls because the bed is so tall. Three step stairs I have by the different sofas.

Reason for my post to you is that I want to make sure that you do not have to feed her a breed specific or size specific food. They are pretty much marketing ploys and probably could be more expensive than a regular All Life Stages Food. I’ve never fed any of my toy dogs a toy food it’s really not necessary. Feed her a good all life stages food and add glucosamine/chondroitin to her diet once a day. They are chewable and you should not give it to her in her food as it loses some of its efficacy. Just give it to her as a treat sometime during the day or evening but a few hours in between a meal. Also, even if you buy a food that says it contains glucosamine/chondroitin it does not contain enough to really be of any substantial benefit to a dog suffering from arthritis, old age, accidents, joint issues, etc.

[pugmomsandy]

The majority of the time I add some greens/joint powder and other supplements but I add those with any wet food topper I use, whether it’s BDN or other canned food. If I’m in a hurry, I don’t add anything. I have one super picky obese pug (sounds odd, right?) right now that will only eat BDN and ZiwiPeak, sheesh!!! I need to find something to transition him to, maybe the Freshpet soft kibble C4C mentioned on another thread.