[Bobby dog]

Hi Anita:
Here are the supplements, foods, and products I used (and still do along with some new additions) to get rid of Bobby’s flea dermatitis and yeasty skin. Olive oil flea dip, Nolvasan shampoo, raw eggs, bone broth, unrefined organic coconut oil, sardines/fish oil, MSM, and DE. Not too complicated or costly! This along with a new diet plan that I began last September helped to restore his health.

Dogs with severe yeast issues more than likely need a carb free diet to starve the yeast; carbs feed yeast and bad bacteria. All kibble has carbs because they require starch to bind the food into a kibble form. Your dogs would probably benefit from a grain free and low carb food preferably with no potato. Bobby’s yeast issues were bad, but it was not necessary to eliminate kibble from his diet. I did feed kibble that had low carbs and I only feed kibble that has average to low carbs now.
http://healthypets.mercola.com/sites/healthypets/archive/2011/05/03/eating-these-foods-can-make-your-dog-itch-like-crazy.aspx

Since September I have fed DFA rated 3-5 star kibble along with DFA rated 3-5 star canned food. After a few months on the new diet, I started alternating canned with fresh foods, dehydrated/freeze dried foods, or frozen commercial raw. By continuing with the supplements, feeding quality food and treats I went into this flea season with a healthy and fresh smelling dog. Fingers crossed no fleas on Bobby and it is rainy and very humid where I live, fleas are in full force.

It is very important not to make too many changes at once; this includes new foods! Start supplements in low doses slowly working towards the desired dose. If everything is okay, add another supplement. As far as shampoos, olive oil flea dip, and applying coco oil topically I used them right away and regularly without any worries because they provided immediate relief and were important for treating the yeast.

For a flea dip I used olive oil (from the grocery store) which has no long lasting effects, just immediate relief for the skin and to kill the fleas without chemicals. I did this outside so I did not have to worry about being tidy. Start under the chin and in the collar area working your way to the back, belly, and leg areas all the way to the tail. With Bobby I would just pour it on then massage it in to be sure his skin and between his toes were coated. His fur is not too thick or long. He loved the massage that came with it not to mention he was not itchy and uncomfortable while it was on him. The fleas pretty much disintegrate. Your dogs’ coats may be heavier than Bobby’s if you decide to try this, be sure to separate the fur, pour a little, and then work it in. I always left it on for an hour letting him run around and play, but you will definitely see their lifeless bodies after a short time so an hour is not necessary. Then I shampooed it off, it is easy to shampoo out; I even use olive oil as a conditioner for my hair.

I bathed Bobby once a week using Nolvalsan shampoo mostly. I always shampooed twice leaving the first application on for at least 10 minutes. I can’t find Nolvasan on-line so they may not make it anymore. Hibiclens or the drug store equivalent has the same ingredients as Nolvalsan. Malasab shampoo is a popular choice and highly recommended by many posters on DFA. I also used EQyss Micro-Tek medicated shampoo when the condition became less severe. You can find Micro-Tek on-line and in some pet stores. With your size of dogs I would look into a large bottle of Malasab shampoo, but in a pinch you could always purchase the Hibiclens or generic equivalent at a drug store.
http://www.drugs.com/vet/malaseb-shampoo.html
http://www.eqyss.com/pet_microtek_shampoo.asp
http://www.vetstreet.com/nolvasan-shampoo

The biotin in eggs is great for the skin and hair. I fed Bobby one raw egg a week. However, he recently decided he no longer likes raw eggs so we have poached eggs on Sundays. He gets a one minute egg and I get a two minute egg. lol
http://www.dogsnaturallymagazine.com/feeding-your-dog-raw-eggs-good-or-bad/
http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2005/02/09/raw-eggs.aspx

I made bone broth and fed it once a week. I still feed him bone broth weekly; Bobby weighs 44 lbs and I feed him ¼ – ½ C of broth.
http://www.dogsnaturallymagazine.com/reasons-your-dog-love-bone-broth/
http://healthypets.mercola.com/sites/healthypets/archive/2013/12/02/pet-bone-broth.aspx

The coconut oil must be organic and unrefined for all the benefits. I fed it 3x/wk as well as used it topically when needed as a soothing and healing salve; I tried feeding it 2x/wk after his skin healed, but found he benefits most eating it 3x/wk. Previously I bought Spectrum brand from Wal-Mart, 14 oz. for $8.99; they were cheaper than my health food store. I recently found organic unrefined coco oil at my BJ’s, 36 oz. for about $10. So if you belong to a price club, look for it there.
http://ottawavalleydogwhisperer.blogspot.com/2012/02/coconut-oil-is-good-for-your-dogs.html
http://www.whole-dog-journal.com/issues/16_11/features/alternative-treatments-updated_20861-1.html?pg=3
http://www.dogsnaturallymagazine.com/the-health-benefits-of-coconut-oil/
http://www.greenpasture.org/public/Products/InfusedCoconutOil/index.cfm

I started out feeding tinned sardines packed in water once a week, but I failed to keep it in my pantry on a regular basis. So I switched to a fish oil supplement. You can find many good fish oil supplements for dogs on-line and in pet stores. I used CVS 1000 mg fish oil tabs 3x/wk and I still supplement his diet with it. Tinned sardines packed in water would be the healthiest choice. I tried cutting back to 2x/week, but he developed a little dandruff so I am now back to 3x/week.
http://www.whole-dog-journal.com/issues/15_12/features/Fats-Chance_20658-1.html
http://www.whole-dog-journal.com/issues/15_9/features/Fish-Oil-Supplements-For-Dogs_20600-1.html
http://healthypets.mercola.com/sites/healthypets/archive/2009/06/13/the-frequently-missing-ingredient-in-your-pet-s-diet-that-could-devastate-their-health.aspx

MSM helped to relieve and heal his itchy skin. MSM has other benefits that may be helpful for your dogs as well. I use only100% pure MSM powder with no fillers or flavorings. You can find pure MSM marketed for dogs on-line and in pet shops.
http://www.dogsnaturallymagazine.com/msm-raw-fed-dogs/
http://www.vetinfo.com/msm-for-dogs.html
http://www.natural-dog-health-remedies.com/msm-for-dogs.html
http://essentials4all.org/100__Pure_MSM.html
http://wolfcreekranch1.tripod.com/naturvet_msm.html

I also used DE as a flea powder and for treating his environment. Some posters use garlic to repel fleas. Here’s some info:
http://www.dogsnaturallymagazine.com/garlic-for-dogs-poison-or-medicine/
http://www.springtimeinc.com/product/bug-off-garlic-dogs/All-Natural-Dog-Supplements
http://www.enonvalleygarlic.com/About_Garlic.html

Homepage

I was not fully aware of the important benefits of probiotics for our pets. I now feed kefir twice a week to Bobby for the probiotics. This would have made a tremendous difference with the healing process if I had used it during his skin/flea issues; if I only knew!
Probiotic info:
http://healthypets.mercola.com/sites/healthypets/archive/2010/10/26/advantages-of-using-pet-probiotics.aspx
http://probiotics.mercola.com/probiotics-for-pets.html
http://www.medicine4animals.com/23/Does-Your-Cat-or-Dog-Suffer-with-Digestive-Problems,-Skin-Problems-or-Poor-Immunity.html
http://ottawavalleydogwhisperer.blogspot.com/2012/05/foods-rich-in-probiotics-beneficial-for.html

ABC diet:
This is a download I highly recommend; it is $2.95 and worth every penny! I feed the ABC diet now throughout the week rather than in one meal. This is an easy way to enhance any kibble diet with fresh foods. I found this download after Bobby’s issues were cleared up, but I definitely would have followed it during that time. I believe it would have helped with the healing process.
http://www.seespotlivelonger.com/home/sll/page_41/see_spot_live_longer_the_abc_way___electronic_down.html

I recently started giving Bobby unflavored beef tendon and beef trachea chews. Here’s some healthy treat suggestions:
http://healthypets.mercola.com/sites/healthypets/archive/2012/02/10/easy-to-make-pet-treats.aspx

[Bobby dog]

Hi Anita:
I will sort through your questions and add some links to the over the counter remedies that I used to completely heal Bobby! Remember, all dogs are different. Bobby had no health issues other than flea dermatitis, flea infestation, bad diet (please remember, anything they eat must be quality ingredients, it really makes a difference), and yeasty skin.

It sounds like you already have been to the Vet and there are no other health issues?

Did the Vet give him a steroid shot for the itching?

I really suggest feeding canned with kibble. Moisture is really important for healthy dogs and especially important for dogs that have some health issues. I always feed kibble with canned or fresh meat lightly cooked, or dehydrated, freeze dried or frozen raw for every meal. If you are going to TSC for DE, check out the 4Health canned dog food. It’s 99 cents/can and DFA rated 4.5 stars. I feed 4Health, Pure Balance from Wal-Mart ($1/can for stews and $1.25/can for 95%), and Earth’s Pride ($8.99/6 pack) from BJ’s as my main canned rotation.

4H DFA review:
/dog-food-reviews/4health-dog-food-canned/

4H TSC link:
http://www.tractorsupply.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/SearchDisplay?storeId=10151&catalogId=10051&langId=-1&pageSize=&beginIndex=0&searchSource=Q&sType=SimpleSearch&resultCatEntryType=2&showResultsPage=true&pageView=image&searchType=1002&autoSuggestURL=AutoSuggestView%3FcoreName%3DMC_10001_CatalogEntry_en_US%26serverURL%3Dhttp%253a%252f%252ftsc-prod-lb01.crossview.inc%253a3737%252fsolr%252fMC_10001_CatalogEntry_en_US&searchTerm=4health+wet+dog+food

I was wrong; you can buy 20 lbs of food grade DE for $12.99 at TSC. They carry it in the livestock feed section.
http://www.tractorsupply.com/product__10151_-1_10051_2789

Check out the Activyl site to see what they say about bathing your dog. Most products are waterproof, but you never know. The Vet Tech at my Vet’s office gave me info on it, but I never checked it out after I settled on Sentinel because it already had the flea egg killer in it and I want to use as little chemicals as possible.

For treats, stay away from carbs or anything sugary, it will only feed the yeast. I have never fed them, but posters here recommend The Honest Kitchen Beams. I haven’t fed treats from the pet store recently and find many have carbs and starches so I just make very, very small meatballs for Bobby (I freeze them) using 2 lbs of ground beef, an egg or two, fresh garlic, tumeric, and I add fresh basil, cilantro, or parsley if I have it. I also throw in any veggies I have, but if you decided to make something like this I would leave the veggies out for now. You can also slice meat as thin as you can and place the slices in the oven on the lowest temp and cook until they are like a jerky consistency.

It is not unusual for them to try and lick off the coco oil if they like it. It is a wonderful product and is good to feed and apply to skin irritations due to its antiseptic properties. Just try to supervise your pups so it can soak in, it really will make them more comfortable and the fleas don’t like the oil.

Probiotics is an important step to get their immune systems back on track too! Probiotics has helped my cat tremendously. I use plain Kefir or plain greek yogurt right now for him. He has grown hair in places that I thought would never come back! That is another story. I think you will see a tremendous improvement within a week of using probiotics with their coats and skin.

Everything that I used on Bobby you will find at Wal-Mart, drug stores, health food stores, on-line, or pet stores very easily. I will post tomorrow what I used to help Bobby and hopefully something or several things can help your guys as well.

[crazy4cats]

The BCnut-
Did you really want to tell me that? Lol! Thanks for the help with supplements.
Cindy-
I feed mostly kibble with various toppers. I give mine digestive enzymes every meal. Probiotics and a green supplement twice a week and right now garlic granules everyday for increases flea protection. You can just start adding these things slowly. You are off to a great start. You are feeding high quality products. You are way ahead of the average dog owner!

[DogFoodie]

Becca,

Have you ever tried Springtime Natural’s Big Of Garlic to repel fleas, ticks, etc.?

[crazy4cats]

Hi-
Also check out Springtime garlic tablets or granules. Several regular posters on this site recommend as a holistic way to prevent fleas. Good luck!

[Akari_32]

Ok, so a little thing I noticed…. You guys may remember me saying I got a flea collar for the cat a while back. Well, I took it off about a week ago. It hit me that his face wasn’t as fluffy as it used to be, and that he was really scratching at the collar a lot. After a closer look, he also has a scab on the side of his neck, and a bald ring where the collar sat.

Here’s a picture from before the collar:

http://i765.photobucket.com/albums/xx294/Akari53/2A46772B-40BA-4DE5-890C-83F400CFB78C_zpsqi1schna.jpg

And a week after having it off.

http://i765.photobucket.com/albums/xx294/Akari53/936C75A6-780A-4AB7-B825-C59A53124255_zpsmjcb3zu5.jpg

And here’s his neck

http://i765.photobucket.com/albums/xx294/Akari53/323CF7A5-64CB-4808-BECB-C08A9B425C3E_zpsj9r1n2hx.jpg

http://i765.photobucket.com/albums/xx294/Akari53/D41C9CB8-B722-4C7E-827B-8021E998B5EA_zpsilnetf6c.jpg

And him snuggling on the couch with Bentley 🙂 (you can also see his neck his bald here)

http://i765.photobucket.com/albums/xx294/Akari53/F3BB3F31-18E7-46A4-9B5B-E3DF56ECA471_zps6vyuo6um.jpg

I did some googling and it seems this is a pretty common problem. Some cats have even died from these collars! Why are they still selling these?? Is there anything I can do to help the fur grow back?

Anyway, I’ve been doing brewers yeast and garlic pills every day for the fleas for the last week or so (when ever they came in the mail, I took the collar off and started those instead). Whatever fleas are on him are sluggish and don’t seem too happy, so maybe it’s working? Even if it’s not doing anything for fleas, it’s helping his greasy tail, which I figured out is called stud tail and can get pretty nasty when not treated.

[weezerweeks]

I went to my vet today and I kinda got the idea he didn’t want me to give my 7.3 lb yorkie bug off garlic. I only give him 1/4 chewable tablet a day. I was only going to do it during summer for fleas because I will not give him comfort is,frontline, etc. He’s afraid he might get anemia. What do u think?

[Akari_32]

S’posed to be good for fleas (also has garlic in it) and skin and coat.

[Nancy C]

A few thoughts, as I am studying this topic as well. FYI I have given my 10 yr old golden retriever the little round garlic capsules from Whole Foods-pinkish label. One in AM and one in PM. I drop it in her food bowl. We live on a wooded lot in NC and I have NEVER seen a flea on her! I studied for 6 years for a PhD and my chair was the founding president of the American Holistic Medical Assoc, a former Harvard Neurosurgeon, BUT VERY BIG ON avoiding chemicals and pharmaceuticals whenever possible (which can be most of the time actually). He is very informed on holistic remedies, incl homeopathic, and says HE uses a product called CEDARCIDE on his several dogs for ticks and fleas. Says it’s great and it works! He lives in Missouri also in the country/ woods. It’s sold at Amazon by the quart but you can get a better deal by ordering a gallon. My container arrived yesterday and I have already sprayed it on the dogs. It has a cedar-ish fresh smell. Dr. S told me he just sprays and rubs it into the fur a couple times a week. Reviewers swear by this stuff. It’s called “BEST YET” by Cedarcide. And it is super – SAFE! My doc advisor does not put the chemicals in his dogs either. I have not asked him about heartworms but I will. Someone ELSE Who has several dogs and who I respect told me there is a product called PBG-51. The link to the site is http://www.firstchoicenaturals.com/resourcearticles/parasitesbegonefrom mypet.php. I am told that this product is not advertised for heartworms for legal reasons BUT it protects against them. I am studying that now as would like to get OFF Sentinel. I used to give my golden Sentinel only half the year. Two yrs ago my vet sat me down and nicely chewed me out saying the dog is vulnerable in NC all year around. So I promised I would keep her on it. Last thing – I am the one who has the GSD who was 18 mos in jan and wandered into big digestive troubles trying to transition him to Origen then to ACADA — several of you have helped me so much. I have discovered in this awful experience with all his loose stools and diarrhea that a flea/tick collar I bought at the vet (Solesto – made by Bayer) is probably one of the culprits for my Shepherd’s digestive disorder. The DAY after the vet’s secretary fitted Axel with the collar he had diarrhea IN the house and IN the yard. Everywhere he went the entire weekend diarrhea was falling out of him. I was going crazy. Two weeks later I realized that it was NOT the HILLS nasty WD Rx dry food he was on that caused this sudden diarrhea– geeze that stuff is like eating HAY and no way could he have the squirts on it. I had just started giving him a little Science Diet Sensitive Stomach. BUT I bought that collar as I went out the door at the vet. It HAD to be the collar. I looked on line and found that among all the LOVERS of the collar there are some detractors as well whose dogs also had bad diarrhea. So watch out about that collar!
That’s all I know for now. PS: Cedarcide gets rid of all insects, including BED BUGS!!
Nancy C

[Cyndi]

I would never use trifexis. I’ve read about alot of dog deaths because of it. I think there is a thread here on the forum & I was just reading a facebook page earlier about trifexis & all the stories of people who’s dogs have died after using it.

For heartworm I use a product called Value Heart, recommended by HDM. Its just ivermectin (sp?). For fleas I give Bailey garlic, I use diatomaceous earth on her, I also use Mercolas natural flea & tick spray, & I just recently started using Sentry natural defense flea & tick (or something like that). Bailey got a few fleas last year, but I was able to get rid of them before they got too bad.

[DogFoodie]

Hi kvee,

I wanted so badly to use an alternate methods of flea control this year. I purchased Mercola Natural Flea and Tick Defense, which was later recommended by my integrative vet also.

But, my primary defense was to be Springtime’s Bug Off Garlic. I chose the granules, which is just garlic; but, they also make a chewable with other ingredients. Sadly, my dog with some food intolerance issues had a reaction and I wasn’t able to continue the product. I know plenty of folks here have mentioned that they’ve used this product with amazing success. If you have concerns about garlic, visit this link and be sure to click on the “studies / etc.” tab for lots of great information and studies about giving your dog garlic: http://www.springtimeinc.com/product/bug-off-garlic-dogs

[Nancy C]

My 10 year old Golden Retriever went 8 or 9 years taking GARLIC and NEVER NEVER had a flea. I bought the Whole Foods little round Garlic capsules (pink label) and dropped one in her morning and night bowls and she ate it with the food. NO FLEAS EVERRRRRRR. How easy.

Then my vet put her on Sentinel. It covers fleas. So no more garlic. Check on the health of garlic for dogs before you consider it. I read about it in a HOLISTIC DOG CARE BOOK. It WORKED FOR SURE. And is cheap and I think safe. She is 60 pounds and healthy. Check and be sure it’s healthy first – never know- they’re always finding out bad things about what we think is Good. Otherwise, believe me, it WORKS.

[Bobby dog]

Hi C4c:
I was thinking about it, but I haven’t looked into it yet. I have never tried any garlic supplement or fresh garlic for them. I suppose since flea season is just around the corner I better get on it!

Have you ever given garlic to your kitties?

I know the cat that will eat anything will probably eat fresh garlic. He likes the meatballs I make for Bobby and they have a good amount of garlic (and tumeric) in them. I am just not sure about the other kitties.

[Bobby dog]

I am using 2 cloves of fresh garlic, sliced about 10 minutes before feeding, three days a week.
http://www.dogsnaturallymagazine.com/garlic-for-dogs-poison-or-medicine/

I used to feed Bug Off from Springtime to my horses years ago when I boarded them. When I moved them to my home, I stopped feeding it. Two years of having the opportunity to be around them 24/7, I never saw any difference with bugs and ticks. I use fly predators for the barn area, groom them daily to check for ticks and use an herbal bug repellant spray now.

Last summer I used the Bug Off tablets for Bobby with no success. However, I still want to give fresh garlic a try especially since I changed his diet. I am hoping since he is healthier and does not have that yeasty smell the fleas might not be so attracted to him and the garlic might have a chance to work. If I could get away without a chemical flea preventative I would be a happy person.

I still will be giving Bobby his Ivermectin for HW prevention. I usually use Frontline Plus during flea season only. So I guess I will see how a fresh and healthy Bobby that smells like garlic does during flea season this year. If he starts showing signs of attracting fleas, I will have Frontline on hand to use.

That was a good deal on the Purina One canned! FYI, I was on your coupon website last night and they have a link to Eagle Pack coupons posted under pets. That is a sister company to Wellness. It is a $1.00 off two cans of Eagle Pack canned dog food and $3.00 off dry dog or cat food. They also had Sheba cat food coupons.
http://printablecouponsanddeals.com/Category/pet-products

Poor kitty. Sedated cats only ever went two ways for me. They either have slept it off with no problems or were freaked out and needed my complete attention until the seditive wore off. Good luck tomorrow!!

[Akari_32]

For the dogs canned food, I honestly just get what’s cheap. The Pedigree was free (3 big cans), the Purina One was on clearance at PetSmart for 70 cents each, and I have coupons for $1 off 3 cans, the alpo was 94 cents after BOGO sale and coupons (I got like 10 cans of that), the pro plan was free lol Haley needs canned mixed in her dry or she can’t eat very well, and gets upset tummy. I split a can between Haley and Dweezle, it’s not a big part of their diet, so I don’t worry about it too much. If they ate more of it, I’d be looking for better ones, but I figure it doesn’t hurt. They grew up on all the nasty stuff, as it is lol

How much are you givng for the garlic? I’d imagine it keeps mosquitoes away, too? Flea and heartworm prevention is sooooo expensive!

Oh, and expect some good stories of drugged kitty tomorrow LOL The vey said no food after 8 and no water after midnight. I don’t get off work till 8 anyways, so I gave him a big can of wellness, and that’s all he gets! He doesn’t drink, but I’ll take up the water dishes anyways.

[Bobby dog]

The pic is adorable. I love when they help out and lie on top of or get into things we are working on! He looks very happy and content. Very nice stash by the way!

I saw that Pedigree peaking out of your stash. Pedigree is actually what brought me to this site. My Vet sent an e-mail to all her clients about illnesses she had been treating that could have been avoided with better nutrition. She made up lists of suggested foods and what to look for in foods. I saw I was feeding my cats poorly. Then I looked into Bobby’s food and found I fed a good kibble, but not good canned; I was feeding Pedigree. So I went on a search and found DFA.

Bobby was yeasty, smelled like a bag of fish flavored Fritos, was scratching all the time, and had a red groin and tail area. I always put organic coconut oil on him, gave him baths once a week during flea season, and used a flea med but was fighting a losing battle. It never dawned on me to look into his diet. A month after I stopped feeding Pedigree his skin problems were almost gone. He is sensitive to fleas and still had small red bumps from bites, but his skin condition was 200% improved in my eyes. I mostly feed 4Health and Pure Balance canned now, you can’t beat the quality for a $1.00!

I just started a fresh garlic regimen for Bobby trying to stay ahead of flea season. Since he is not a smelly and itchy mess I am hoping he will not attract the fleas like he has the past two years. Fingers crossed!

I also saw the Purina One for dogs in your cabinet. I have been slowly putting together a grocery store list of canned foods based on ingredients alone from Purina (like the Pro Plan and One list I made for cat food). The only “One” variety that made my list was the Classic recipes. The Tender Cuts in Gravy contain meat by-products, wheat gluten, corn starch modified, soy flour, and added color. The ingredients I don’t like in the Classic Round Recipes are meat by-products and carrageenan. Neither line contains chelated minerals (I look for that in food) but the Classics would work for me if they have coupons or good deals on them. Here’s my Purina One canned dog food list if you’re interested:

Purina One Smart Blend Classic Round Recipes canned – non-chelated minerals, meat by-products, and carrageenan in each recipe:
Beef & Brown Rice
Chic & Brown Rice
Lamb & Long Grain Brown Rice
Turkey & Barley

My mom knows I have been changing my dog and cats diets so she started picking up Purina food for me with her coupons. At this time in her life the only outing she makes is to the grocery store; she is a coupon queen in her own right. She could not remember what I look for in pet food so I decided to work on a grocery store list for her. I do love and appreciate that she is thinking of us so the least I could do is make it simple for her!

[crazy4cats]

I didn’t know that ear infections could be due to food intolerances. Hmmm… Interesting. My previous dog never really had any problems with his ears and my current two have not either at 2 1/2 years old. I guess I’m lucky in that respect. We just have the digestive issues so far. I think I’m going to eventually order the granules. Right now, I’m giving them fresh garlic three times per week. I’m thinking that might not be enough through the flea season. Betsy, if you want me to buy them from you if that turns out to be the culprit, let me know and maybe we could work something out.

[DogFoodie]

So, is the consensus that it’s safe to give Bug Of Garlic daily during flea season? I plan to start it this week and the recommendation is to give it daily.

Even though we still have snow on the ground and in the forecast and the high today was 17 degrees, I am a person of faith and I truly believe Spring will eventually arrive!

[losul]

Sorry about the delayed responses.

InkedMarie, Thanks for posting. I did find the link you provided helpful. Helped me to realize more, that while it is a really scary and serious thing, but that there is a difference between being HW positive and lower levels of worms and having significant HW disease. It also got me to thinking more about using some supportive supplements.

Shawna, again, very helpful links, not just about timing for seasonal HW preventatives, but also other things. Thank you. I’ve never posted a pic of Turbo yet, but it’s on my to do list as soon as I get caught up on things. Because of the cumulative effects, I guess the advantage multi could be started a little earlier than the others and stopped earlier for using seasonal HWP. But it’s also because of those cumulative effects and the added and unwanted flea killer, that I doubt I will use for HWP, beyond using for treatment. I also noted in your second link that advantage multi is not often even used during treatment.

I’m also thinking now that it is still senseless for me to give Turbo HWP’s year round. (once he is HW free). Even if I up the dosage months to 9 or 10 months, a break of 2 or 3 months from it, is better than no break, and shouldn’t be any risk of infection anyway during the coldest months.

Aimee, I agree 100% with your critical thinking in the the case of Mr. Piggy/Dr. Falconer.
Not so sure either about his “homeopathic” remedies, i.e. sulphur, calcarea carbonica, graphites (is that actually given internally?)

I also got to reading some other alternative treatments elsewhere such as black walnut extract, wormwood, etc. Some of those seem would be as/or more so, toxic as conventional drug treatments. But I think I will start using some garlic.

Update: Turbo had his X-rays Wednesday. The vet went over them with me, and in general thought they looked pretty good. He didn’t see anything at that time that would cause him to downgrade him from class 1 to class 2. Although he did have some things he wanted the visiting radiologist to look at and review (the heart) when he comes in again, I think on April 8. The lungs looked mostly pretty clear and pulmonary arteries he thought looked pretty good. I’m definitely leaning towards a slower kill protocol (rather than the harsh immiticide, steroids, and painkillers, and the vet seems fine with that, although he is still adamant about continuing with the Advantage multi, rather than ivermectin, me I’m not entirely sure Advantage multi will be as effective as ivermectin on fully mature worms, according to what I have read. Also if not going with immiticide, he wants to get going on the doxycycline sooner. He is saying just 2 weeks of doxy. Most of what i read says 4 weeks, or pulsing it. I also told him I had a 2nd HW test done that indicated low antigen, and that that vet thought it indicated lower worm load.

• This reply was modified 11 years, 9 months ago by losul.

[pugmomsandy]

Fairly regularly I use Springtime Inc. Longevity, Fresh Factors, Bug Off Garlic (or Flea Free Supplement liquid), and I got some free bottles of their Advanced Hip and Joint and Joint Health Chewables at checkout. springtimeinc.com

And a couple times a week, I give Mercola krill oil and ubiquinol, Swanson’s Dr. Langer’s probiotics or Mercola probiotics, Mercola digestive enzymes, Immunel (swanson), and a glandular product (currently Pet G.O.) http://mypetsfriend.com/pet-go.html and ProDen Plaque Off, vit E and C, and Mercola Bladder Support.

When I make dehydrated foods, I like to add in some raw apple cider vinegar.

I’ve just started to add some sprouted seeds to their raw food. 4 Legs of Love from SproutPeople.org. http://sproutpeople.org/just-for-pets/sprouts-for-dogs/

[Scruffy312052]

I can’t address the type of food for large breed any more than I can for miniature breeds but I can tell you what I started doing about a year and a half ago.

I have 30 dogs. Most are American Eskimos and Long haired Dachshunds however, due to a couple of segregation errors on our part we also have several Cold Franks added to our mix. While the AKC refuses to recognize this cross as a specific breed we love them just as much as our Blue Bloods.

To address your query: I was a very strong proponent of Dry food. I’ve tried many and varied brands with a minimum rating of 3 stars. Over the years several of our pets had been plagued with a myriad of health problems: Bad Breath, loose stool, fur falling out, fleas, parasites etc… etc… before I researched K-9 Dietary needs. I started with consulting the three of our most trusted vets in our area as well as several trips to the University Of Georgia College Of Veterinary Medicine.

Oddly enough, their knowledge on the subject was nothing more than suggesting a variety of name brand foods and supplements. It was, quite frankly, a costly “hit or miss” solution with little or no improvement to the health of our pack.

I educated myself by reading hundreds of articles and forums such as this (Rudy’s). As a result, I concocted and changed their diet to a home remedy.

In less than four months there was a marked improvement. Coccidian protozoa; gone. Their breath was no longer foul smelling. No more signs of any type of worms wiggling in their stool. Their fur started growing back soft and fluffy and much to our relief, there are few if any fleas. As a bonus I cut our rather large K-9 pantry expense by 33%. I did, however, add an extra 30 minutes to my time while preparing their meal (mind you, I am feeding thirty).

NOTE: Should you consider my solution it is strongly advised that you consult your Vet First. Two of the ingredients I use may be challenged by some (but not all) authorities. *These two are: “Plug Chewing Tobacco and Garlic.”

Here is my Remedy: In a crock pot I cook 3 pounds of chicken backs and necks and one pound of chicken liver for a minimum of 8 hours on Auto. This causes the bones to break down to become malleable and easily digested. Thirty minutes before serving add 2.5 pounds of frozen or fresh mixed vegetables (make sure there is no or little corn) i.e. peas, lima beans, carrots, green beans and stir.

In a blender add two heaping tablespoons of minced garlic, 1/2 ounce of plug tobacco and one cup of broth from the crockpot. Blend on high for thirty to sixty seconds or until the tobacco is cut up into pieces that look almost granular. Add this to the crock pot and stir several times. Turn the crock pot off and let stand for thirty minutes.

Whatever type of dry food you are using reduce the serving amount by 60% and mix this on a 2 To 1 ratio of crock pot mix to dry food. Considering you have five dogs, freeze the rest of the crock pot mixture in pouches that serve five. Taking into account the size of my kennels, I obviously have no leftovers.

I have been feeding this mixture to my kennels for almost 1 ½ years and my pack has never looked or responded healthier.

* It is argued that tobacco will kill Coccidian protozoa and the Garlic will repel the fleas. I use these two ingredients only twice a month so you will need to reduce the amount to a proper ratio so as not to give your pets too much.

The benefits: less trips to the vet, more active adults, fresher breath, no more de-wormer medicine to buy (which, by the way, is not a healthy substance for your pet) less, if any flea remedies and coats full of luster. If you like, you can also drop to a one star dry food considering it is primarily used as filler.

[Harpers Mom]

Okay so for the garlic it would be a clove in the morning and a clove at night for 3 days then 4 days off correct? Sorry for all the questions.

[theBCnut]

1/2 teaspoon per cup of food for the ACV. And 2 cloves of garlic 3 days in a row then 4 days off. The garlic needs to be chopped up right before feeding. I’ve heard B vitamins make you taste bad to biting bugs…

[Harpers Mom]

We are planning to get stuff to do the yard and flea bomb the house on Monday, I will try the virbac! Pattyvaugh, how much vinegar and garlic do you add to the food? Harper is about 60lbs. I would love to feed raw, but the therapy dog organization that Harper is through does not allow feeding raw to the active volunteers. So we use Merrick and earth born holistics and rotate canned toppers.

[theBCnut]

I live in FL too. And I remember a couple years ago when we had a damp fall, the fleas were really bad heading into winter. I did everything I could think of every 2 weeks for about six weeks before I finally caught a break. Find me some wood to knock on because I’m about to say something stupid. I haven’t had a flea problem at all this year. I don’t know if it is the raw food, the vinegar, the garlic, the whatever, but I have not had fleas much at all this whole year.

[pugmomsandy]

Well, I mix the DE in their food instead of on their fur, and there doesn’t seem to be any side effects from that. I’m using Flea Free Supplement (garlic and vinegar liquid) right now – about 1 teaspoon per day (not every day). In my other room, I give the other dogs Bug Off garlic chewables. I use Halo Herbal Dip for flea/tick spray. For the yard, I use Neem Oil spray, Cedarcide spray and AntiDOTE brand nematodes (not all at once). I foster and haven’t had any flea problems since last year when I started these products (except Bug Off is a new product around here).

http://www.wolfcreekranch.net/flea_free_food_supplement.html

http://www.springtimeinc.com/product/bug-off-garlic-dogs

http://shop.halopets.com/Grooming-Supplies/Herbal-Dip-5oz

• This reply was modified 12 years, 2 months ago by pugmomsandy.

[AnaG.]

Thanks for the reply. Do your dogs do well on it? Does it help with fleas? I read somewhere that it did. I am considering giving it to my dogs too. I give them garlic but not other oils. How much vinegar do you use, just a few drops? Sorry for the inquisition. Lol

[pugmomsandy]

There’s info at http://www.earthworkshealth.com/pets-animals.php

Be sure to use a mask as you don’t want to breath it in while applying it around the house and bedding and be careful applying it to the dogs as well. You can find it at most garden supply places and be sure to get “food grade” DE (don’t let the picture on the can scare you especially if you don’t get one marketed just for pets). I feed it to my dogs. As for fleas, I use essential oils, garlic and vinegar. I’ve been meaning to make a facial scrub with it but keep forgetting and keep buying commercial products from the store.

[Cyndi]

I have a question for any raw feeder that would like to help. I have had Bailey on raw for just about 5 months now. I give her raw garlic and use different flea sprays, Mercola’s being one of them, so I’m 99% sure she doesn’t have fleas. I check her all the time too. It’s been maybe over a month now, not sure, but she’s been scratching and biting at herself and licking her front legs. The leg licking is like frantic leg licking for like 5-10 seconds and then she’s done and goes about her business. The itching and scratching isn’t constantly and just about every time she does it, I check her over and I find nothing. So, I’m thinking she maybe allergic to something she eats. In the mornings I give her the ground beef, ground tripe and ground organs for 2 or 3 days and do whole carcass ground rabbit for 2 or 3 days, with either sardines or eggs or veggie blend baby food alternated & right now I’m using the See Spot Live Longer mix on the beef days. For dinners I rotate between a chicken back/feet/heart/gizzards/liver or turkey neck/gizzards or a large rabbit piece & a rabbit head.

So, I know how a typical “elimination diet” goes, but I’m wondering if I just cut out something from her diet for a while, if that would work? & what should I start with? Is chicken the likely culprit here? I wish I could pinpoint when her itching and biting started, but I have no clue. Any help, as usual, is greatly appreciated!

[NectarMom]

I thought Garlic was not good for dogs? If this Garlic bug off is safe then I might be interested in getting some because of mosquitos in the summer time. I do not have a flea or tick problem but I do worry about mosquitos. Anyone have any idea?

[pugmomsandy]

This might be easier for you: http://www.wysong.net/products/ph-dog-cat-supplement.php (Wysong Biotic pH-)

I shop mostly online but also get items at the health food store. I give d-mannose or other cranberry herbal product, Garden of Life Raw C or Mercola liposomal C, and Bragg apple cider vinegar or Flea Free Supplement (garlic and vinegar). And they take probiotics and colostrum. If their pH does not become more acidic, then I will give a dl-methionine product instead (Wysong Biotic pH-).

[DogNHorseLover]

I am just wondering about home remedies for flea control.
I know garlic can help, but with all the issues surrounding the use of garlic, I’ve been wondering about any new ways, inexpensive, and not lining the pocketbooks of chemical using companies!!
Does anyone have any recipe that actually works?
Please share! :))

[pugmomsandy]

I use Flea Free Supplement and Bug Off (oral), whichever one is handy at the time. For the dogs body I have Mercola Natural Flea & Tick spray. On their harness or bandana (some kind of cloth) I put a couple drops of Halo Herbal Dip undiluted or essential oil Eucalyptus Citriodora every couple days. Halo can be used as a spray and in bath water too. Been using these (except for Bug Off) since last year. And I spray my yard with garlic spray, neem oil spray, Wondercide spray and put out AntiDote beneficial nematodes periodically.

• This reply was modified 12 years, 4 months ago by pugmomsandy.

[Hound Dog Mom]

Hi somebodysme –

The number one defense against parasites – both internal and external – is a strong immune system. I battled parasites yearly with my dogs until I switched to a species-appropriate raw diet. My dogs get raw garlic a few days a week (for a dog the size of yours I’d say between 1 and 1 1/2 cloves 3 – 4 times per week), I use Sentry Natural Defense Topical Drops monthly (natural oil based repellent that comes in an applicator similar to Frontline or Advantix) and Earth Animal No More Fleas & Tick herbal tincture 6 days per week. I also comb them with a flea comb nightly. I haven’t found a single flea or tick this year.

[somebodysme]

I just really would rather not put Frontline or Advantix etc on my dog. What do you use that is helpful and most importantly is safe and healthy for a dog to keep them free of fleas (and other pest too would be great). I just found ONE flea on her and that’s the first one since I got her but she was on Frontline and has not had an application since May 1st. The last time I put it on her, she got this rash on her shoulders but I only think the frontline may have aggravated her skin and allowed her demodex to come back (does that sound reasonable?) because it is still there, two and a half months post frontline and many baths later.

Please if you could give me specifics as to how much and what brand etc etc. She is a mix that is probably lab/cur hound and weights a tiny bit over fifty pounds and is 17 months old. She has had lots and lots of skin issues and was covered with demodex when she was rescued at 8 months of age. When I got her in Dec, she was clear of mange but after a treatment of Frontline, she broke out in that rash. The vet said he got a negative scraping though but from what I understand that doesn’t really mean anything.

I’ve heard some of you use garlic, if so then you do mean fresh right? And how much for her size and how many times a week etc?

I would certainly appreciate any helpful tips! 🙂

[pugmomsandy]

I use something like that called Flea Free Supplement. It’s vinegar, garlic, and some herbs. And I just bought some Bug Off tablets. Of course, not using both at the same time.

[SandyandMila]

I got the Sentry Naturals topical for her today. Smells pretty strong but I like it. I also got a waterless shampoo by Vets Best to use for now until her staples are out. I also left the sliced lemon in a pot over night and tried that this morning not sure if it did anything or not. I’ve been adding ACV to her water anyway so I’ll continue doing that. I have treated the home and will continue to I also got a spray for the home and her bedding. I saw at the pet store an item that is added to the water. It contains garlic, vinegar, water and salt. Is salt ok for her?

[Cyndi]

I ordered that Mercola Natural Flea and Tick Defense the other day. It should be arriving today. I can’t wait to use it and I really hope it works. I am going to use that and I also have been using Diatomaceous Earth and give Bailey a bit of garlic. I will NEVER use a topical flea treatment again, nor will I use a heartworm preventative. In doing all my research that I have been doing over the last few months, I have read alot of not so good things about both. I’ll be sticking to the all natural stuff.

I’ll keep you posted about the Mercola stuff and let you know what I think about it.

[pugmomsandy]

Hi Betsy,

I used it last year and didn’t have any problems. I’m in TX. My senior girl also liked to sunbath and lay outside alot and she and others didn’t get fleas. I haven’t seen mosquitoes yet around here but I’m sure they’re coming! At the end of the year I also tried out Halo Herbal Dip. I used it concentrated and put a couple drops 4 or 5 on their harness. It can be put on cloth. And also mixed with water for a spray. I would carry a collar with some drops on it out with me when I went out and I didn’t get bit either. I just bought some essential oil or eucalyptus citriodora to add a few drops to the mercola bottle. I also put in a little neem oil. I treated my yard with garlic, neem and cedar oil sprays last year too and once maybe last month. I have about 6 bottles in the cupboard. And none of my pugs got heartworm or tapeworms since I don’t give anything for that. They all had their check-up in April.

• This reply was modified 12 years, 7 months ago by pugmomsandy.

[Mom2Cavs]

I’m assuming you mean Springtime, Inc. And yes, I’ve heard of them and have used them off and on for many years. I really like them. I’ve used their Fresh Factors (great whole food vitamin which I like because Lucy hates most things mixed into her food) and I’ve used their Joint Health and their new Advanced Joint chews. They worked great for my deceased Shih-Poo, Desi, who had both rear luxating patellas. And the Advanced Joint worked when Lucy hurt herself once. I’ve also used their Omegas 3-6-9 and liked them, as well as their Bug-Off Garlic chews for fleas. Love the stuff and they always have b1g2 deals…and if you buy so much you can try free stuff.

[pugmomsandy]

I use the Flea Free during the warm months and also use Halo Herbal Dip with some added neem oil, Mercola flea/tick spray, and Only Natural Pet Herbal Defense Oil. I alternate. I like the different smells. Last summer was the first one without chemicals and I did not have any problems in Dallas/Fort Worth Texas. I also used garlic spray alternating with a neem oil spray on the yard every couple weeks.

[pugmomsandy]

I’ve just been doing the essential oils/natural sprays/garlic for fleas and mosquitoes. And if I do give a heartworm preventative it is the low dose milbemycin as close to 0.1 mg per lb as I can get it which is the smallest dose of Interceptor. At that dosage it does not cover intestinal parasites.

http://www.fda.gov/AnimalVeterinary/Products/ApprovedAnimalDrugProducts/FOIADrugSummaries/ucm054862.htm

[Shawna]

Wow, that’s a good question!! ACV won’t hurt the dog — it actually helps with digestion (especially in senior dogs). All of my dogs get ACV, with their food, regularly. BUT, I don’t know if it will momentarily shift the skin ph. My guess is yes it would — a dog’s skin is alkaline and ACV is definitley acidic. But, because it is also antiyeast, antibacterial etc I think the temporary ph shift would be of no concern.. Hopefully others will post if they disagree or have relavant info..

PS — Toxed is right!!! I use garlic like your mom uses ACV :)…

[Toxed2loss]

Hi Sophia,

Insects are far more resilient than mammals. So much so that by the over use of chemical insecticides we’ve inadvertently produced pests that are immune to them. The chemical companies keep producing and selling more harmful chemicals in response. These poison our pets. So I’m copying a post that I originally shared on the Mercola Healthy Pets forum. Just in case you want to go that route.

“IPM Fleas
I use a method that my daughter and I developed when she went off to college (with her dog) and discovered her apartment and yard were infested from the previous renter’s cat and the abundance of ferel cats that frequented her yard. My daughter is an IPM entomologist and started her professional career at age 15. Here’s what we worked out.:

The first thing to consider is breaking the flea life cycle, which is: hatch out of eggs laid in textiles or litter, feed as nymph, metamorphasize to adult, hop on dog, mate/feed, hop off, lay eggs, repeat…

Bathing your dog regularly is a great way to interrupt the flea reproductive cycle… if they don’t reproduce, no resident fleas.

I use a fragrance free, non toxic detergent. I am currently using naturoli’s soapnut shampoo. Its extremely mild and nourishes the skin and coat. All the pet shampoos (even the hypo-allergenic ones) at pet stores have stuff I wouldn’t use, therefore, I won’t put it on my dogs. Occassionally I use a few drops of a REPELLENT, non toxic pet shampoo along with the detergent. I use Earthypet, for the drops. I get it at http://www.allnaturalcosmetics.com Its very fragrant, and more than 1 drop per small dog, 2 for med-large hurts me. I can only imagine how much it offends the dog. (For your sick dogs, I’d avoid the aromatics until they recover!) One of the ways you can monitor if the VOCs are too high for your dog is, “do they rub their face on the carpet?” That indicates that it is hurting their noses.

Keep in mind that your dog could still have gotten flea born diseases when you used a pesticide, as it takes a while for the resident fleas to get killed. A repellent, like lavender and rosemary oils, keeps the blood feeders away, and therefore prevents insect vectored diseases.

When I bath my pom. I fill up the laundry sink and have her sit in it for 3-5 min. I protect the ears and nose. I also watch for fleeing fleas and squish ’em. Make sure they pop. You will also see them swimming in the tub. Squish those too. Washing them down the drain isn’t enough. They hop back out. Also for the first several weeks, check your dog, down to the skin in a well lit area for fleas. Use a desk lamp. The fleas will come to the warmth. You’ll still have to comb through all her hair and examine all of her skin. If she’s picked up a tick, or cheat grass, you will find it during this procedure. Don’t forget to squish the fleas. When you aren’t seeing them or their “dirt”, you can move your bath times to less frequently, but monitor to find the best schedule. I bath more frequently during heavy hatches. Contact your State University, Experiment Station Entomologist for the timing of the heaviest hatch(es) in your area.

Next: frequent laundering (weekly to every 2 weeks) of your dogs bedding, with borax as a laundry booster: 1/4 to 1/2 cup per load. Borax residues form crystals in the fabric, which scratch through the exoskeleton and cause the adults to suffocate. I love that part! (dry on Hot) Fleas lay their eggs near where your dog habitates, in fibers: Carpet, upholstry, bedding. Flea nymphs hatch out and start feeding on what’s in their environment. Residual borax is consumed and kills the nymphs.

For control in carpets and upholstery, I wash them (steam clean) with borax solution. Its also a great way to get out petroleum and oil stains… as well as odors. Unless something happens, I shampoo a couple of times a year, like during major hatch cycles. (spring) and at the end of the summer to minimize the indoor population. The borax crystalizes after this too, and kills both adults and nymphs.

So, this method kills by drowning or suffocating the adults, poisoning the nymphs, and drowning/frying the eggs. It is an intergrated, (non invasive) pest management practice or IPM.

There are a number of things you can do to deter mosquitos from feeding on your pet. The aromatics work by repelling, but you can use garlic, (one of Shawna’s favorites!) Or complex Bs make the blood unpalatable to insects. I have frequently fed brewer’s yeast to get the Bs, but I’m hearing some downsides. Get a good supplement. Healthy raw foods with lightly cooked broccoli and other cruciferous veggies (see Dr. Becker’s book for amounts) are high in sulfur, and that repels mosquitos. Tumeric and curry (garam masala) have healing properties as well as making you “not a biting insects preferred snack.” Hope that helps! 🙂

I also mix up a spray bottle with water and some of Dr. Bronner’s Castile, mint oil soap. It repels mosquitos. I use this as a spray-on during peak seasons or heavy hatches. I went to the coast a few years back in May. I used this and everyone else in the campground was slapping mosquitos, regardless of “off” and deet, and I didn’t have even one, near me. It lasted all night. As you probably know mosquitos vector heartworm. So this little preventive measure goes a long way in protecting pups from heartworm.”

Hope that helps!